ok, its getting toooooo much. i dont mind you bitching about whether your cock is bigger, your towers are taller, but not at the expense of other stuff. once p+c threads are full of that tripe it ruins things so lets keep it here. people who start city bashing outside this thread will be brigged, no excuses.

no gothic, I'm telling you that MY cock is bigger.

Fucking scouse manc loiner ****s! Fuck you all! ;)

You missed out Preston :crazy:

You tell em' Smiley!!! :rant: :tongue:

The new Bullring in all it's glory:

http://www.collegesucks.org/imgs/photos/shit.jpg

:jk:

Do one EB, I just spewed coffee all over the screen.

Another Salford in Lancashire, turd block.

D'ya mind EB? I'm trying to eat hotdogs here! :D

Let's all gang up on the Leeds forumers if they dare to show up that is. ;)

Brum is full of peeps who can't speak the Queens.
Liverpool is a toilet full of frustrated hairdressers.
manchester is the whore of whitehall she gets
all the handouts.


Leeds is under-rated, under-valued, over-looked,
over-achieving and still in its crib.


Is this how this kind of thread works. Just let me know.

Leeds is a shit tip on a roundabout

Leeds is a shit tip on a roundabout


Yeh but the shit tip? and roundabout are still in Leeds and not
some bloody borough.


Have you ever visited the Star Trek Experience in Vegas - Hilton?

I think people need to start slagging off London.

Yeh but the shit tip? and roundabout are still in Leeds and not
some bloody borough.

:cheers:


Have you ever visited the Star Trek Experience in Vegas - Hilton?

I haven't actually, doesn't really appeal to me. Could be fun I guess, have you?

:cheers:
I haven't actually, doesn't really appeal to me. Could be fun I guess, have you?


Yeh, thought I'd ask seeing the link you have.

It's pretty good but a bit expensive.

Lets not forget to allow the heavyweight bruiser of UK cities who can quite honestly kick any provincial city arse!!!!

Thats right all bow down to the superior power and might of London.

The rest don't even register, how do you get to Liverpool/Manchester et al do you need a passport? what zone is it in? lol

Birmingham City 4 Leeds Utd 1
Birmingham City 1 Man City 0
Liverpool 0 Birmingham City 1

All in the last 9 months.

If I was a fan of the club that was 15th in the Premiership I wouldn't be bragging about their performance... :bleh:

If I was a fan of the club that was 15th in the Premiership I wouldn't be bragging about their performance... :bleh:

I wouldn't be bragging about that team period. :)

Crikey.... I hope I'm not semi agreeing with a r*d here :runaway:

I know, we're expecting the usual kick in the teeth on Sat - defeat by the baggies........

It's all London's selfish fault. (They've been stirring it up for years)

http://www.eb.cx/img/ssc/tosser-smiley.gif

:bleh:

http://img7.exs.cx/img7/6904/smiley28cx.png

:yes:

http://www.eb.cx/img/ssc/wanker-smiley.gif

:bleh:

http://img7.exs.cx/img7/6011/smiley22wx.png

Yeah well boys London pisses all over all UK cities added together. So ner

But this is a Manc vs Brum vs Leeds vs Liverpool thread.........no London, so ner!!!

Yeah well boys London pisses all over all UK cities added together. So ner

http://img72.exs.cx/img72/1223/smiley21sx.png

An oversight by gothic. Im not cockney, you lesbians fishy bearded clam

if london is so great how comes you cant find a londener living there these days either the rich or famous, or asylum seekers homeless. London is overated , expensive, dirty , smelly and full of people who would not even piss on you if you were on fire. The north West is fighting back.!!!!!!!!!!!

Traditional Londoners all died a tragic death from a rare genetic disease.

I'm happy to blame it all on that southern shithole.

I'll second that!

How dare you be rude to your giant benefactor, you will feel the wrath of the UK premier city.

(But don't blame london, blame governments)

^ Blame pricemazda. :yes:

Why? Its not my fault, honest!

It so is. What with you spreading your Londonite propaganda and all.

Who are you working for? London KGB?

No, I work for the ministry of truth.

And its not propoganda, its the gospel

I went to London a week and a half back. All I can say is that there are far more selfish and angry drivers than up north. Especially the taxis, they seem to just speed off without care for anyone happening to be crossing the road.

I went to London a week and a half back. All I can say is that there are far more selfish and angry drivers than up north. Especially the taxis, they seem to just speed off without care for anyone happening to be crossing the road.

Taxi drivers are the ones who survived the rare genetic disease and were left brain damaged. Unfortunately they were all left with a black cab too. And if they weren't, they were given a transit van.

Birmingham. Has kept the concrete industry going for decades!

Leeds. Erm? What a waste of five letters!

London. The whore of all cities!

^ Manchester's London's whore though isn't it?

Birmingham. Has kept the concrete industry going for decades!

Leeds. Erm? What a waste of five letters!

London. The whore of all cities!


Oh yeah, I see you left Liverpool out of your vitriol. :yes:

In that case MANCHESTER IS SUPER!!!

Unlike Liverpool, which will ALWAYS be Manchester's whore! :)

And cheap she is too! :cheers:

englands just an extremely large brothel. there, resolved.

And you all are all Londons bitches.

Liverpool's no one's whore. It's the city's inablility to suck cock which leaves it recieving much less institutional love then that of which Manchester gets from London, who's married to Washington but likes a bit of Granadaland on the side. ;)

And New York's London's PIMP!

i agree that salford is the pimp of uk.

Gimp of the UK....

yeh salford is quite lame reallly isn't it. full of scalles etc, i should move

No gravy or curry sauce in London? What a load of shit.

Liverpool's no one's whore. It's the city's inablility to suck cock which leaves it recieving much less institutional love then that of which Manchester gets from London, who's married to Washington but likes a bit of Granadaland on the side. ;)

Absolutley. Where was Manchester when the scouse proletarian hoards where trying to seize control of the state and raise the glorious internationale over oppressed northern lands in the 80's?
Administering executive relief to their London gauleiters, thats where! :D

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/20/20693_our_shrinking_city.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6039710/site/newsweek/ btw I like Liverpool.

Less of the London bashing or you will get nothing.

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/20/20693_our_shrinking_city.html


You've been told before, that was an incorrect figure. The number was revised to 422,000.

I didn't write that don't blame me- 422,000 isn't much better anyway.

Leeds No.1, it seems everybody but you already knew this. It's been mentioned on here a number of times. Birmingham's population shrank a lot during the same period too. Greater Manchester, however, didn't shrink as much. A lot of people simply moved into the suburbs. It's expected that the population of the centre of Manchester will increase over the next ten years as all the shitholes are rebuilt. I'd suspect the same is true of Liverpool. Leeds' however, is stagnating.

I didn't write that don't blame me- 422,000 isn't much better anyway.

Not like anyone can respect that figure anyway.

Considering the boundary it goes by doesn't include parts of Manchester's own city centre.
A boundary only there for electoral efficiency.
A boundary which meant nothing until Maggie abolished the Greater County Councils in 86 cos they were Labour, and so the Tories would have a chance of gaining power in some of the newly created boroughs ie. Trafford, Tameside that were left from the fragmented former Manchester.

This isn't Berlin circa 1988, this is Manchester, that boundary means nothing.

Well in Leeds, there never was a massive shrink because it didnt have a massive concrete boom post war like Manchester and Glasgow- its first one was in the industrial revolution and then now. The suburbs aren't changing much, but inner city and city centre are booming with thousands moving in.

Well even if you add Salford on you don't get 715,400 or nearly 1m like Birmingham.

Well even if you add Salford on you don't get 715,400 or nearly 1m like Birmingham.

Wouldn't be just Salford, and not all of Salford, just the parts that are in Manc's urban mass.
It would also be the urban mass that lies within Trafford, Tameside, Bury, a little of Stockport and a little of Oldham too. But not Rochdale, Bolton or Wigan.

I did my own personal estimate using local authority wards from Tameside, Trafford, Stockport, Bury, Salford and Oldham to see what it came out at. My calculations came out at about 1.2 million, excluding suburban areas like Ashton.

nottinghams better than all at least we can agree on that

Outside of London:
Current tallest?
Being built tallest?
Proposed tallest?

Orbital motorway?
Twin runway airport?
Integrated transport network (big bang metro or not)

WORLDS most attended indoor arena?

To be honest why we do we bother? We build they come we conquer.... we compete with cities on another level than Leeds/Liverpool... onwards and upwards we Mancs go

SMUG but with proof!?

You forgot a couple...

* Largest city centre shopping centre in Europe (post refurb Arndale Centre is 1.4 million sq ft, bigger than the Bullring)
* More shopping mall floor space than any city outside London (2.8 million sq ft just in the Arndale and Trafford Centres)
* More shops in shopping malls than any other city outside London (560 stores between the Arndale and Trafford Centres excluding food establishments)

Every thread turns into an aren't Mancs great thread ......Boring!

Alright we all worship you now,and I thought Americans were arrogant. :bow:.... :sleepy:

Every thread turns into an aren't Mancs great thread ......Boring!

Alright we all worship you now,and I thought Americans were arrogant. :bow:.... :sleepy:

If posting the facts is considered arrogant.

Just because Manchester has loads of accolades, doesn't mean any other city doesn't have any- Leeds has the worlds oldest working ralway, Europe's largest indoor market and German Christmas Market, as well as the busiest station outside of London, UK's shortest motorway, UK's biggest internet centre and 2nd legal centre as well as a leader in Finance and Media- www.uksfavouritecity.com and voted the UK's favourite city. It also has the UK's biggest and best display of Christmas Lights all designed and made in the city unlike many which are bought in.
Glasgow has Europes largest glass shopping centre or something like that- Europe's largest shopping centre- I'll know when the sites back up, as well as probably the UK's longest urban motorway, the only city in the UK outside London to have a true underground system and I'm sure many more.
Birmingham has more canals than Venice, Spaghetti Junction, Selfrdiges is the only building like it in the UK.
Newcastle and Liverpool are obvious.

Manchester can claim towers- currently all of which are ugly and Greengate is ugly. Glasgow also has good integration of transport, a very metropolitan style transport system like London.

But every city excels somewhere.

The Biggest band of all time .The beatles

The Worlds Biggest Steeplechase.The Grand National,Three quarters of a Billion watch it annually

Britains most successful footie team.Liverpool,Everton 4th.

The Worlds first American Embassy.Liverpool.

Most no 1's off all time,Liverpool Guiness book of records.

The most famous ship of all time.Titanic,Liverpool Registered.

The sinking of the Lusitania.Caused America to join ww1,Liverpool Registered.

Battle of the Atlantic Headquarters.Liverpool,Kept this country fed,ww2

See how easy it is............I'll say it again..Boring..i'm posting facts...Am I being Arrogant now?

P.S We Have An Underground Railway aswell Leeds No1.

Leeds has the worlds oldest working ralway may be true
Europe's largest indoor market may be true
German Christmas Market may be true
busiest station outside of London false - Glasgow, Manchester and Birmingham are both busier
UK's shortest motorway may be true
UK's biggest internet centre false - Manchester is the UK's second internet hub
2nd legal centre Birmingham and Manchester are around the same as Leeds for this actually
Finance and Media Manchester has more financial institutions (in fact more foreign banks than Leeds has banks in total) and is about the same for meda, until the BBC arrive that is!
www.uksfavouritecity.com and voted the UK's favourite city too subjective
It also has the UK's biggest and best display of Christmas Lights too subjective

Then you could carry on with Manchester's list:

Largest motorway network in the UK
Fastest growing economic city region in the UK
Largest football stadium in the UK
Largest arena in Europe
Biggest conference centre in the UK (G-Mex)
Largest sculpture in the UK

Need we really carry on?

Exaclty- Liverpool, Leeds, Glasgow, Birmingham and so many other cities can boast much more creditable things than Manchester- Orbital motorway, who cares- all that shows is that Manchester is mad on cars, the worst and most inefficent thing ever invented and Birmingham has managed to form an oribtal.
Largest shopping Centre in Europe- well so what- if all the shops are there who cares, I counted 11 shopping centres in Leeds including Kirkgate Market and the Wellington Quarter. On top of its continental style pedestrianized streets. All a massive shopping centre shows is that theres no fresh air so they al lgo inside- Manchesters city centre might as well be renamed the Arndale. Its hardly a nice building anyway.

I knew I should have held back one of our citys achievements,I've used them all up now.....Boring :sleepy:

Who cares about motorways- they're ugly, encouraging for cars, they split up areas- just take urban motorways, and all it shows of a city is it likes cars. Edinburgh hasn't really got any motorways with the exception of around the airport, and neither has London really- they all stop more or less around the M25.

Exaclty- Liverpool, Leeds, Glasgow, Birmingham and so many other cities can boast much more creditable things than Manchester- Orbital motorway, who cares- all that shows is that Manchester is mad on cars, the worst and most inefficent thing ever invented and Birmingham has managed to form an oribtal.
Largest shopping Centre in Europe- well so what- if all the shops are there who cares, I counted 11 shopping centres in Leeds including Kirkgate Market and the Wellington Quarter. On top of its continental style pedestrianized streets. All a massive shopping centre shows is that theres no fresh air so they al lgo inside- Manchesters city centre might as well be renamed the Arndale. Its hardly a nice building anyway.


They can boast so much more crebidle things than Manchester, doubt it. I think they would all be very similar to be honest, none very far ahead of any other.

If nobody cares about motorways why did you just mention them in your previous post?

You post about Glasgow having the biggest shopping centre and great Glasgow is, but when it's about Manchester ''theres no fresh air and they all go inside''.

You are right, the Arndale is hardly a nice building, but neither is the Merrion.

Glasgow's is a big open one though made of glass so you can see the nice blue sky instead of the grey smog you would see outside the Arndale.
Having the UK's shortest motorway is good because its short.
The Merrion is hardly as much of a landmark building as the Arndale so it doesn' matter as much, and the Merrion is alot smaller as well as getting a facelift soon.

Exaclty- Liverpool, Leeds, Glasgow, Birmingham and so many other cities can boast much more creditable things than Manchester- Orbital motorway, who cares- all that shows is that Manchester is mad on cars, the worst and most inefficent thing ever invented and Birmingham has managed to form an oribtal.
Largest shopping Centre in Europe- well so what- if all the shops are there who cares, I counted 11 shopping centres in Leeds including Kirkgate Market and the Wellington Quarter. On top of its continental style pedestrianized streets. All a massive shopping centre shows is that theres no fresh air so they al lgo inside- Manchesters city centre might as well be renamed the Arndale. Its hardly a nice building anyway.

I'd count well over a dozen shopping centres in Manchester, but there you go... I'd also say that Manchester probably has more outdoor shops in the city centre than Leeds does. The simple fact is that Manchester city centre is bigger than Leeds city centre. Manchester also has a lot of continental style pedestrianised streets. As for the orbital motorway, we manage to have that as well as a bigger tram network than Leeds could ever dream of.

Leeds No.1, you're a poor, deluded child. Give it up already.

Actually no because all of those 11 Leeds shopping centres are in the City Centre- theres loads more outside the city centre the most well known example is the White Rose centre. Just because Manchester City Centre is more sprawled out than Leeds, probably the reason for the poor choice of shops outside the Arndale, doesn't mean its got nearly the quality. Briggate, Victoria Quarter and the surrouding area is dubbed The Knightsbridge of the North as well as continental style shopping streets with street cafés, street performers and events such as Rhythms of the city taking place on the streets which extend to Kirkgate Market and eventually the Harewood Quarter in the East and to City Square in the West. The Headrow lines pedestrianization to the North as does Boar Lane in the south. Leeds is one of the most pedestrianized city's in the UK. It has 15km of traffic free shopping. It has a very rich compact centre unlike Manchesters spread out poor one.
And the shopping area in the East only accounts for 1/4 of the centre, as the South has the riverside and West has the financial district centred around Park Row, Park Square. The North also contains the civic quarter and universities while the far east of the city centre has the developing cultural quarter on Quarry Hill.

Glasgow's is a big open one though made of glass so you can see the nice blue sky instead of the grey smog you would see outside the Arndale.
Having the UK's shortest motorway is good because its short.
The Merrion is hardly as much of a landmark building as the Arndale so it doesn' matter as much, and the Merrion is alot smaller as well as getting a facelift soon.

Manchester Arndale has large skylights that allow lots of natural light in, as a matter of fact.
The quote about Glasgow 'nice blue sky' to Manchester's 'grey smog' is perplexing, Manchester has 75cm of rainfall annually, Glasgow has 89cm.

You mention the Merrion will be getting a facelift soon, well Manc's Arndale has been under renovation for a year now. Half of it was demolished and is being rebuilt. The whole Market Street facade was reclad, the notorious yellow tiles are getting rarer by the day.

You've obviously not been on some of the designer streets in Manchester then. Also pedestrianised. Also full of west end shops. Also with street cafes. Also with street performers. Lots of street art. Leeds may be the Knightsbridge of the North, but there's something you forget. Manchester isn't classed as being in the North. It's in the North West. Leeds is obviously the Knightsbridge of the North as it has a better centre than places like Bradford. Manchester's shopping district is more than twice the size of Leeds'.

Leeds has some nice street scenes, good Christmas lights and a good night life. As for anything else, it's not in the same league as Manchester or Birmingham.

It has a very rich compact centre unlike Manchesters spread out poor one.


Bigger cities tend to have bigger centres, LN1.

Leeds has a very good shopping experience with all major stores and shops
situated in a square mile. Where as manchester is a major hike to get from one
place to another. You can get everything you need in the Arndale though if
you have a good guide :)
Let's face it all major towns and cities have shopping centres where you could
buy anything you need but if it's the shopping experience you want then Leeds
is second to none and I'm speaking from experience.

Leeds city centre also employs more people than manchester city centre.

Leeds city centre also employs more people than manchester city centre.

That's not true. What IS true is that more people are employed in the Leeds council area than in the Manchester council area. Also, as has been pointed out, this figure includes most of Leeds' industrial employment, whereas most for Manchester is in Trafford, which is excluded from that statistic.

It's like comparing one city's tallest skyscraper to another city's tallest bungalow.

As for anything else, it's not in the same league as Manchester or Birmingham.


That's rubbish EB to say Leeds is not in the same league as manchester.
You say manchester is twice the size Okay but when you break it down manchester is only just competing with Leeds IMO.
Break it down. In other words distract parts of manchester city centre that
would not be included in lets say a brochure advertising manchesters shopping
experience.
You'd be lucky if you was left with half the city to highlight in said brochure.
Leeds on the other hand is all tailored to the average shopper. It certainy wins
in convenience and more than holds its own in style and choice.
Different league no way don't be silly.

That's not true. What IS true is that more people are employed in the Leeds council area than in the Manchester council area. Also, as has been pointed out, this figure includes most of Leeds' industrial employment, whereas most for Manchester is in Trafford, which is excluded from that statistic.

It's like comparing one city's tallest skyscraper to another city's tallest bungalow.

Forget all this fancy, tricky talk EB. Trafford for a KO is not in manchester
city centre.
Leeds City Centre employs more people than manchester city centre.
An Absolute Fact.
Which I myself found hard to believe when I first read it.

Selfridges x2
Harvey Nichs x1

So that would be 3-1 against Leeds and 3-0 against the 1960's led Liverpool. It's just too embarrassing to keep proving the stats. It's all there unless you have your eyes shut. Crikey it would be like us comparing ourselves to London. Maybe we should hand out leaflets at Ringway next time Leeds No 1 travels through an international city, listing the reasons he should migrate to Britain's other economic power house?

Come off it Greg. Leeds doesn't even compare to Liverpool! Leeds is about 10-20 years behind in terms of development and is falling further behind every year! in terms of style and choice Manchester wins it hands down. Is Selfridges in Leeds? Any decent shop that's in Leeds can be found in Manchester. The same can't be said the other way around though. Leeds is slightly above places like Newcastle and only ranks higher when you look at raw statistics without taking into account how irrelevant boundaries are. London isn't restricted to the City of London, Manchester isn't restricted to the city of Manchester and Liverpool isn't restricted to the city of Liverpool. Grow up Greg.

Forget all this fancy, tricky talk EB. Trafford for a KO is not in manchester
city centre.
Leeds City Centre employs more people than manchester city centre.
An Absolute Fact.
Which I myself found hard to believe when I first read it.

Which statistic do you qoute??...

what if you took the number of passengers handled by Piccadilly & Victoria as an indication of commuter numbers... I wonder where Leeds's (one needed) station ranks? I don't know but would be interesting?

Forget all this fancy, tricky talk EB. Trafford for a KO is not in manchester
city centre.
Leeds City Centre employs more people than manchester city centre.
An Absolute Fact.
Which I myself found hard to believe when I first read it.

Greg, no it doesn't. Full stop. THAT is an absolute fact. The Manchester administrative area has less jobs than the Leeds one. The problem is that a big section of the Leeds statistics include all the areas right out into the fields.

It's like saying "my dick is bigger than yours" when your stats count your dick as erect, the other person's not and theirs has to exclude their scrotum too. What do you expect when you don't compare like for like?

My God, you're an idiot.

Which statistic do you qoute??...

what if you took the number of passengers handled by Piccadilly & Victoria as an indication of commuter numbers... I wonder where Leeds's (one needed) station ranks? I don't know but would be interesting?

Leeds station is the busiest outside London.

Leeds station is the busiest outside London.

No it isn't. Glasgow is. Birmingham New Street is second. Manchester Piccadilly is third.

Not what I asked. Still no stats? I'll find them, you guys are like summer flies round a picnic!

sorry earlybird! It's tiring aint it!?

I have 2 go.
But you silly sods are on a hiding to nothing saying manchester is in a
different league compared to Leeds when it comes to shopping.
manchester just doesn't have it when it comes to the shopping experience.
Really.

said the Spider to the fly.

You forgot a couple...

* Largest city centre shopping centre in Europe (post refurb Arndale Centre is 1.4 million sq ft, bigger than the Bullring)
* More shopping mall floor space than any city outside London (2.8 million sq ft just in the Arndale and Trafford Centres)
* More shops in shopping malls than any other city outside London (560 stores between the Arndale and Trafford Centres excluding food establishments)

Shopping malls are nothing to be proud off. :puke: And Manc and Leeds; you can stick your shops in a few years time when the Paradise Street project is completed. Leeds is shite and is nothing more than a glorified Yorkshire market town. Fact* I'd rather live in some tiny ribble village like Preston.

Liverpool rules and you all know it. Fact** The U.Ks second City for Architecture - more listed buildings than any other U.K City outside of London. Fact

*Might not actually be a fact
*Might also not actually be a fact

Great thread this. Can't believe some people are getting so wound up :lol:

Top post! But great fun? Just dishing out some slaps

It's getting boring proving greg and Leedsno.1 wrong all the time, we need a new antagonist from Brum or the Pool....................

Come off it Greg. Leeds doesn't even compare to Liverpool! Leeds is about 10-20 years behind in terms of development and is falling further behind every year! in terms of style and choice Manchester wins it hands down. Is Selfridges in Leeds? Any decent shop that's in Leeds can be found in Manchester. The same can't be said the other way around though. Leeds is slightly above places like Newcastle and only ranks higher when you look at raw statistics without taking into account how irrelevant boundaries are. London isn't restricted to the City of London, Manchester isn't restricted to the city of Manchester and Liverpool isn't restricted to the city of Liverpool. Grow up Greg.

My that must be sheer poetry to a manc reader. Pity its all bollix :)

manchester is too strewn out to claim 'the shopping' shout.

It really is it doesn't have atmosphere, it doesn't have bustle (apart from market
street) it doesn't have convenience. Leeds has a lot more to offer in them
said departments.
I like how you give us a cheap disclaim by saying things like:
"Leeds is slightly above places like Newcastle"
But that just don't cut it EB, sorry.

Leeds is the superior shopping experience 'The Knightsbridge of the North'
what is manchester 'The Knightsbridge of the North West!!!' LoL

People travel from all over the place just to shop at Leeds all year round.
Leeds is not just for Christmas it's an all year ultimate shopping experience.

Okay manchester has selfridges but whos to say Leeds wont get a
Selfridges soon? Leeds can get Selfridges but manchester can't get convenience,
the layout, the bustle. Things like that have to be generated they can't just
move in. LOL

Leeds has the biggest indoor market in Europe. Apart from that thing in the
basement of the Arndale I don't believe manchester has an indoor market and
I couldn't believe it when I found out that the locals refer to that row of stalls
as a market the ones opposite the afflecks palace. That's not a market LOL.

Yes an official city bashing thread. I want to say some very harsh things can I say them with out being kicked off the site.

My that must be sheer poetry to a manc reader. Pity its all bollix :)

manchester is too strewn out to claim 'the shopping' shout.

It really is it doesn't have atmosphere, it doesn't have bustle (apart from market
street) it doesn't have convenience. Leeds has a lot more to offer in them
said departments.
I like how you give us a cheap disclaim by saying things like:
"Leeds is slightly above places like Newcastle"
But that just don't cut it EB, sorry.

Leeds is the superior shopping experience 'The Knightsbridge of the North'
what is manchester 'The Knightsbridge of the North West!!!' LoL

People travel from all over the place just to shop at Leeds all year round.
Leeds is not just for Christmas it's an all year ultimate shopping experience.

Okay manchester has selfridges but whos to say Leeds wont get a
Selfridges soon? Leeds can get Selfridges but manchester can't get convenience,
the layout, the bustle. Things like that have to be generated they can't just
move in. LOL

Leeds has the biggest indoor market in Europe. Apart from that thing in the
basement of the Arndale I don't believe manchester has an indoor market and
I couldn't believe it when I found out that the locals refer to that row of stalls
as a market the ones opposite the afflecks palace. That's not a market LOL.

The city doesn't NEED markets. It's surrounded by two of the biggest and oldest market towns around (Bury and Ashton-Under-Lyne). Ashton is one of the UK's oldest markets, it has a large indoor market, farmers markets, European markets and the like.

As for the "bustle" of Leeds, that's what happens when you have too small a city centre with lots of people in. More people shop in Manchester every day but you actually have room to move because it's more spread out. Leeds has a few shops, but it really is lacking the range that you find in the big cities.

As was said before, Leeds is nothing more than a market town and will never amount to more. It's on the same level as Newcastle. Glasgow and Liverpool are both above that. Manchester and Birmingham are both above that.

It's getting boring proving greg and Leedsno.1 wrong all the time, we need a new antagonist from Brum or the Pool....................

C123 you have never proved me wrong LOL

The fact is manchester is an already established big, proud, economically sound
city that is growing upwards in splendid fashion.

What the mancs 'you included' don't like is the fact that that small town surrounded
by sheep over the pennines is now competing with manchester at every level.
It's almost an insult to you guys. What's more is that that small town over
the Pennines as only just begun. Is only in the crib, the magnitude of that
small towns growth in such a short period of time is astounding.

To a degree I can understand the arrogance of the manc poster. You've
always had a massive edge over Leeds. Not no more though. You fellas just
can't understand it.

Some mods wana tell me if i can bash the shit out of other cities??????

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

leeds manchester liverpool and birmingham are the 4 premier cities in the uk outside london.

they are all better than stoke on trent or corby

i dont need to bash any cites, they all have something to offer.

but leeds no1 just for the record, i'm sure manchester would be less reliant on the car if metrolink gets extended to the right places.


reason for edit: why cant i spell?

The city doesn't NEED markets. It's surrounded by two of the biggest and oldest market towns around (Bury and Ashton-Under-Lyne). Ashton is one of the UK's oldest markets, it has a large indoor market, farmers markets, European markets and the like.

As for the "bustle" of Leeds, that's what happens when you have too small a city centre with lots of people in. More people shop in Manchester every day but you actually have room to move because it's more spread out. Leeds has a few shops, but it really is lacking the range that you find in the big cities.

As was said before, Leeds is nothing more than a market town and will never amount to more. It's on the same level as Newcastle. Glasgow and Liverpool are both above that. Manchester and Birmingham are both above that.

EB forget it. That again is complete bollix.

Why on earth do you people persist in bringing surrounding areas into it?

Leeds has manchester well and truly beat in the shopping dept. and what
range are you on about? Are you using that tricky language again what are
you on about 'range in the big cities' come on EB explain yourself.

If manchester city centre is sooooo big why does Leeds City centre employ
more people? and please try and answer without bringing manchesters
surrounding areas into it.

The city doesn't NEED markets. It's surrounded by two of the biggest and oldest market towns around (Bury and Ashton-Under-Lyne). Ashton is one of the UK's oldest markets, it has a large indoor market, farmers markets, European markets and the like.


Oh jeez what a transparent joke you are.

"doesn't NEED markets" but yet if manchester was blessed with a market
the size of Kirkgate market you would be ramming it down our throats.

My point is that the conurbation already has more markets than Leeds could ever dream of which is why we don't need a large one in the city centre! You need to concentrate Greg and get the spark flying between those two brain cells.

My point is that the conurbation already has more markets than Leeds could ever dream of which is why we don't need a large one in the city centre! You need to concentrate Greg and get the spark flying between those two brain cells.


EB one question:

What is the title of this thread?

So we are supposed to dismiss things that manchester doesn't need
because said things can be found in other towns or cities near manchester.
It just doesn't wash EB I'm disappointed in you.

My point is ..........

Your point sucks EB manchester city? we are talking about.

Leeds has better markets greggo. I'll give you that.

I thought Birmingham New Street was the busiest train station outside of London.

Leeds has better markets greggo. I'll give you that.


Cheers I'll take anything I can get from you mancs :)

Well you not gona get much from me if I did give you something to cheer about you couldnt call me a manc because I live in Trafford. :rant:

What the mancs 'you included' don't like is the fact that that small town surrounded by sheep over the pennines is now competing with manchester at every level.
It's almost an insult to you guys.
That is just plain 'Yorkshire is better than Lancashire' sort of thing. Still bitter about being defeated in the Roses war??
There is no way in hell that Yorkshire is better than the North West. That includes both the big cities and the small towns.
Apart from Leeds, the only decent urban places in Yorkshire are York and Skipton. Our seaside resorts are miles better too.

I thought Birmingham New Street was the busiest train station outside of London.


According to this from the leeds.gov.uk site Leeds is the busiest outside
London (it's a PDF)
Link (http://www.leeds.gov.uk/downloads/20011116_73102969.pdf#search='leeds%20busiest%20train%20station%20outside%20london')

Handling 600 trains or 50.000 passengers a day

That is just plain 'Yorkshire is better than Lancashire' sort of thing. Still bitter about being defeated in the Roses war??
There is no way in hell that Yorkshire is better than the North West. That includes both the big cities and the small towns.
Apart from Leeds, the only decent urban places in Yorkshire are York and Skipton. Our seaside resorts are miles better too.


Leeds City is competing with manchester city on every level. Even at such an
early stage in the cities developments Leeds is more than holding its own.

Who mentioned Yorkshire or the North West?

I am trying to keep things relevant to the title of this thread.

Cheers I'll take anything I can get from you mancs

It was my pleasure Greggo. Think of it as a heartfelt Christmas gift bought from the Arndale Markets from me to you. :)

Everything else is up for debate though.

**

Leeds is growing, Manchester is growing. Excellent. My considered opinion is that Manchester has much the greater long term potential though.

Greg, Leeds doesn't compete with anything. You don't seem to get the fact that as a conurbation it is nothing more than a mid-sized one. It has no international significance. Ask someone in the US where Leeds is. Nobody cares because Leeds has nothing to offer them that they can't get in places like Manchester, Birmingham and London. Those three, however, have lots to offer that Leeds can't offer.

I feel sorry for these poor, deluded Loiners. Even their council get in on the "3rd city" act! Leeds is nothing more than the poor relation from over the hills.

if london is so great how comes you cant find a londener living there these days either the rich or famous, or asylum seekers homeless. London is overated , expensive, dirty , smelly and full of people who would not even piss on you if you were on fire. The north West is fighting back.!!!!!!!!!!!

London could be worse, it could be Leeds :runaway:

It was my pleasure Greggo. Think of it as a heartfelt Christmas gift bought from the Arndale Markets from me to you. :)

Everything else is up for debate though.

**

Leeds is growing, Manchester is growing. Excellent. My considered opinion is that Manchester has much the greater long term potential though.

Thanks :)
I miss my wander round the Arndale at Christmas time. That place
does have the buzz and the bustle IMO.

Leeds is growing, Manchester is growing. Excellent. Agreed.

My reflection is that Leeds 20 years ago could not be compared with
manchester at any level. Leeds has come so far in such a short period of time.
We are still basically a baby compared to manchester. Leeds is busting at its
crib while manchester is undergoing a drastic facelift. Young v Old?

EB Leeds can never compete with manchester on an historical level. History is
set in stone, thats why so many more people have heard of manchester and
not Leeds abroad. What's more music to a large extent has put manchester on
the map and I wouldn't even try to argue Leeds case on that score. manchester
is decades ahead.

Leeds is busting at its crib while manchester is undergoing a drastic facelift. Young v Old?

Hmmm okay I'll extend that strange analogy (even though its flawed because the two cities did their growing up in the same era). Lets say Manchester is busting out of its zimmerframe and getting several hundred facelifts, HRT, a membership at the gym and a course of steroids, and Leeds too is busting out of its crib (as you say) and getting some super-duper extra nouishing baby milk.

Fantastic. Where is this debate going?

**

Most market towns have "bustle" too you know. Maybe what Manchester needs is more of a market town athmophere at its centre? (I acually mean this). It can feel very fraught.

Greg, Leeds doesn't compete with anything. You don't seem to get the fact that as a conurbation it is nothing more than a mid-sized one. It has no international significance. Ask someone in the US where Leeds is. Nobody cares because Leeds has nothing to offer them that they can't get in places like Manchester, Birmingham and London. Those three, however, have lots to offer that Leeds can't offer.

I feel sorry for these poor, deluded Loiners. Even their council get in on the "3rd city" act! Leeds is nothing more than the poor relation from over the hills.


EB what's the fascination with this conurbation thing and what relavence has
this conurbation thing to this thread?

A lot of people in the US haven't heard of Leeds.
The ones that have know Leeds for 1 music? and 2 football.
The music by the way is down to one album 'The Who Live At Leeds' The Who
are massive in America. Also Rounday Park attracted a lot of BIG names like
M.Jackson - B Springsteen - Madonna to name a few.
The football speaks for itself plus Leeds United football hooligans have been
mentioned on shows in the states 'Northern Exposure' for
one and Leeds to my knowledge is the only city to have been mentioned on the
X Files.
What's also true is that not a lot of them have heard of manchester either.
They only know London.

Most market towns have "bustle" too you know. Maybe what Manchester needs is more of a market town athmophere at its centre? (I acually mean this). It can feel very fraught.


Pardon the pun but Market Street has the feel and the buzz and that is
probably the only place that does IMO*. It's nice the other side of Deansgate
from there with the pedestrianisation and the few arcades you have but Leeds
on this score is at a different level. Leeds has a square mile full of these
attributes.

*Edit - Talking about on the street etc. I already mentioned AC has the feel
but that's undercover.

Hmmm okay I'll extend that strange analogy (even though its flawed because the two cities did their growing up in the same era). Lets say Manchester is busting out of its zimmerframe and getting several hundred facelifts, HRT, a membership at the gym and a course of steroids, and Leeds too is busting out of its crib (as you say) and getting some super-duper extra nouishing baby milk.

Fantastic. Where is this debate going?

**

Most market towns have "bustle" too you know. Maybe what Manchester needs is more of a market town athmophere at its centre? (I acually mean this). It can feel very fraught.

This debate is about Leeds not being in the same league for shopping as
manchester according to EB.
I think the most biased mancs would acknowledge that Leeds is in the same
league at least for shopping.
Leeds doesn't have Selfridges yet! But manchester doesn't have the layout
of Leeds and never will. It's possible that Leeds could get a Selfridges in time
but not that possible that manchester can give itself the street layout, ambience,
buzz and feel that Leeds has.

Pardon the pun but Market Street has the feel and the buzz and that is probably the only place that does IMO*. It's nice the other side of Deansgate from there with the pedestrianisation and the few arcades you have but Leeds on this score is at a different level. Leeds has a square mile full of these attributes.

No I disagree. Market Street feels like a warzone. Horrible. St Anne's Square / Exchange Square / Cross St King Street and Deansgate have a very pleasant ambience. Different shopping districts, different characteristics, different shops.

Leeds does have more arcades than Manchester, that is true Greggo. (Its also stating the obvious). And yes, they do lend the centre of Leeds a nice atmosphere. If a bit samey. In Manchester (if you're not shopping in Arndale) you're shopping in proper city streets. It feels more like a city than a market town and I like the different atmosphere and characteristics of each area.

I like visiting Leeds for a different experience but the actual range of shops seems to be much more limited. (Excluding the market).

This debate is about Leeds not being in the same league for shopping as
manchester according to EB.
I think the most biased mancs would acknowledge that Leeds is in the same
league at least for shopping.
Leeds doesn't have Selfridges yet! But manchester doesn't have the layout
of Leeds and never will. It's possible that Leeds could get a Selfridges in time
but not that possible that manchester can give itself the street layout, ambience,
buzz and feel that Leeds has.

Manchester has a different buzz and feel and thank goodness for that.

You talk about Selfridges like its the holy grail. Like once you've "got" one all arguments will come to an end. Silly, silly, silly.

I could also point to the fact that once the Arndale Centre along Market Street has been radically improved or demolished (as one day it surely will) this in itself will lend an entirely different character to Manchester's central shopping core (outside of the high quality spaces and buildings that already exist). Manchester's shopping at present boasts diversity and charcter that is still only a pipedream on an architects drawing board in Leeds (Harewood Quarter for example).

Actually, Manchester is extremely well known abroad. They know Manchester for the Industrial Revolution, the Spinning Jenney, Oasis, Manchester United and The Bee Gees amongst other things. It's well known in China for Man City too (Sun Jihai is to thank for that). Our council have been invited to Chamber of Commerce meetings in the US and China to set up trade links. We have more foreign banks in Manchester than any city other than London and Edinburgh (I think the last one is pretty close).

Liverpool is well known worldwide. I don't even need to state the reasons. Liverpool is about as famous as London.

Most people think Birmingham is in Alabama which says it all really.

As for Leeds, nobody has heard of it.

No I disagree. Market Street feels like a warzone. Horrible. St Anne's Square / Exchange Square / Cross St King Street and Deansgate have a very pleasant ambience. Different shopping districts, different characteristics, different shops.

Leeds does have more arcades than Manchester, that is true Greggo. (Its also stating the obvious). And yes, they do lend the centre of Leeds a nice atmosphere. If a bit samey. In Manchester (if you're not shopping in Arndale) you're shopping in proper city streets. It feels more like a city than a market town and I like the different atmosphere and characteristics of each area.

I like visiting Leeds for a different experience but the actual range of shops seems to be much more limited. (Excluding the market).


I don't get this 'range of shops' where are you and EB coming from on that.
It sounds good but what's the substance behind it?

Eastgate, the Headrow, Park Row are proper city streets and as the West
becomes more developed streets like Westgate, Wellington Street and East
Parade will come more to the fore for shopping. Streets like these are the
proper city streets you are talking about all of which contain stores and shops.
Just that generally speaking visitors to Leeds largely ignore places like this
and stick to the traditional square mile. Albion Place, Commercial Street, King
Edward Street, Kirkgate, Briggate, Bond Street etc. are all streets that can
be found in the square mile and this is where you will experience the market
town atmosphere. I think it's wrong to sweep the statement and say all of the
city centre has this feel when it obviously doesn't.
Nobody walking down Wellington Street or let's say strolling up Quebec Street
can honestly suggest it feels like a market town.

If you start walking down back streets you will find that there are a lot of expensive shops and cafes ect in Manchester, but no one in them cos its that expensive. Also you will find most of the time the back streets are dead but not today I cut though to get to some shops instead of being killed on Market Street and I can say Manchesters back streets had a lot of people down them am always cutting though finding new places and there dead but today they werent.
If I went to Japan and said do you know Birmingham they wouldnt have a clue what it was, if i said Manchester they would say straight away red or blue thats the fact it always happens to everyone who says there from Manchester. I was down south and and everyone thinks were mad(cos we dont shut up) and they say were are you from I say Manchester and red and blue comes out.

Greggo, don't think this is a usual rant aginst Leeds from me, but in terms of alternative shopping Leeds is pretty shit. Granted, I have no idea if everything else that's catered for others is better than mancs, but except for the Corn Exchange I've found nowhere half decent for altewrnative clothes/music/random shit shopping.

But like I say, I have no idea about shopping generally as I don't go to shops like Harvey Nicks et al.

Harvey Nicks is for gays and women am sorry it is. Have you seen the stuff they sell in there.

Actually, Manchester is extremely well known abroad. They know Manchester for the Industrial Revolution, the Spinning Jenney, Oasis, Manchester United and The Bee Gees amongst other things. It's well known in China for Man City too (Sun Jihai is to thank for that). Our council have been invited to Chamber of Commerce meetings in the US and China to set up trade links. We have more foreign banks in Manchester than any city other than London and Edinburgh (I think the last one is pretty close).

Liverpool is well known worldwide. I don't even need to state the reasons. Liverpool is about as famous as London.

Most people think Birmingham is in Alabama which says it all really.

As for Leeds, nobody has heard of it.

Well EB you did mention the US no one really has heard of Oasis in the US. LOL
Everyone has heard of the Bee Gees no one knows where they are from.
You can't even begin to be serious about China? who outside of footy fans
in China has heard of manchester?
Correction Liverpool is not famous worldwide The Beatles are. There is a
massive and significant difference.
What you are suggesting is a cities prominence based on celebrity and all but
The Beatles will lose that eventually.
Who's to say in a few years time Leeds wont produce a world conquering
band? Who's to say if football becomes a sport again that that team might be
relegated. Basing a cities prominence on celebrity is I suppose valid but very
fragile and seriously no one knows where the Bee Gees are from and largely
speaking Oasis are unheard of in the US.
Dire Straits who incidentally outsold U2 (at their height) were formed in Leeds.
Speaking of football Leeds is very famous in Europe particularly Italy for
John Charles.
I mean come on EB this is the weakest argument I have had to date with you.
You need sleep man. LOL

Headrow - a smattering of shops. Not really a recognised destination.

Park Row - no shops.

Eastgate, Albion Place, Commercial Street, King Edward Street, Kirkgate, Briggate, Bond Street - all constituent parts of Leeds' central shopping core that exudes this market town atmosphere I am talking about.

Very pleasant but samey. Like I say, its differnet to Manchester.

**

I don't get this 'range of shops' where are you and EB coming from on that.
It sounds good but what's the substance behind it?

The substance is there to be seen in the Northern Quarter, Chinatown, Deansgate, King Street, Bridge Street, Oxford Road and Portland Street.

Greggo, don't think this is a usual rant aginst Leeds from me, but in terms of alternative shopping Leeds is pretty shit. Granted, I have no idea if everything else that's catered for others is better than mancs, but except for the Corn Exchange I've found nowhere half decent for altewrnative clothes/music/random shit shopping.

But like I say, I have no idea about shopping generally as I don't go to shops like Harvey Nicks et al.

Yeh dgnr8 I agree. manchester has always been way ahead of most if not all
cities in that dept.
Fair do's on that one, my mates and I were regular visitors in the 80's for that
very thing. Alternative shopping.
The Corn Exchange and maybe Granary Wharf although I haven't been for
ages seem to be coming along nicely though giving Leeds a little bit of street
chic.

Well EB you did mention the US no one really has heard of Oasis in the US. LOL
Everyone has heard of the Bee Gees no one knows where they are from.
You can't even begin to be serious about China? who outside of footy fans
in China has heard of manchester?
Correction Liverpool is not famous worldwide The Beatles are. There is a
massive and significant difference.
What you are suggesting is a cities prominence based on celebrity and all but
The Beatles will lose that eventually.
Who's to say in a few years time Leeds wont produce a world conquering
band? Who's to say if football becomes a sport again that that team might be
relegated. Basing a cities prominence on celebrity is I suppose valid but very
fragile and seriously no one knows where the Bee Gees are from and largely
speaking Oasis are unheard of in the US.
Dire Straits who incidentally outsold U2 (at their height) were formed in Leeds.
Speaking of football Leeds is very famous in Europe particularly Italy for
John Charles.
I mean come on EB this is the weakest argument I have had to date with you.
You need sleep man. LOL

I know quite a lot of people from the US. When I asked them what they knew about British cities that's what they came up with for Manchester. Oasis are a lot more famous over there than you seem to realise. They were marketed as a band from Manchester. As for Man Utd, it's not just restricted to football fans. The grandmothers of children who like the team have heard of them too. United is one of the world's most famous brands and that won't just die away. They even rank above teams like the Chicago Bulls. You're telling me that this doesn't create awareness of a city?

As for bands from Leeds, I'm not even going into this. Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester are all right up there. Leeds is nowhere to be seen on this score. The same is true of London.

The Beatles won't lose their fame. They make Liverpool one of the most famous in the world. More people have heard of Strawberry Field than have heard of Central Park!

I give up with you Greg. We might as well all bow down before the might of Leeds and watch as it devours all. Soon it will have a better skyline than Hong Kong, more highrises than Sao Paolo, more investment than NYC and London... hell, it'll probably even have it's own coastline.

I dont know point your trying to make but
..... if you said in China "Do you know Leeds everyones face would be blank and the word NOOOO" would come out.
If you said Manchester said they would say "Manchester United"

I'd say they are more likely to say:

不

rather than:

NOOOO

Or in their language "I dont have a clue what you are saying so no" but if you said Manchester but they would still say "Manchester United" because thats how I recon it would be said in any language.

Dunno how accurate this is:

曼徹斯特被團結比利茲好被團結

What is that. :dunno:

I know quite a lot of people from the US. When I asked them what they knew about British cities that's what they came up with for Manchester. Oasis are a lot more famous over there than you seem to realise. They were marketed as a band from Manchester. As for Man Utd, it's not just restricted to football fans. The grandmothers of children who like the team have heard of them too. United is one of the world's most famous brands and that won't just die away. They even rank above teams like the Chicago Bulls. You're telling me that this doesn't create awareness of a city?

As for bands from Leeds, I'm not even going into this. Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester are all right up there. Leeds is nowhere to be seen on this score. The same is true of London.

The Beatles won't lose their fame. They make Liverpool one of the most famous in the world. More people have heard of Strawberry Field than have heard of Central Park!

I give up with you Greg. We might as well all bow down before the might of Leeds and watch as it devours all. Soon it will have a better skyline than Hong Kong, more highrises than Sao Paolo, more investment than NYC and London... hell, it'll probably even have it's own coastline.

Erm... I never said The Beatles would lose their fame in actual fact I made a
point saying they wouldn't.

I also basically said on the music scene Leeds doesn't have much to offer or
in as many words.

Oasis are largely unknown in America, I mean EB that's the truth. I don't care
who you have talked to!

Let's be honest about that team as well. Before the premiership that team
were not the brand you are talking about. They were only known by footy
fans in any other country and didn't even come close to the likes of the
Yankees as far as eminence. Like I said if footy ever becomes a sport again
who's to say they wont get relegated and maybe go bust.
What are you on? "The grandmothers of children who like the team have
heard of them too" LOL yeh because it's probably the grandmothers who have
to fork out big bucks for their many, many, many replica kits. All it will take is
several trophy-less seasons and then see how eminent they are.

You mean they'll drop into insignificance like Liverpool FC did? Whatever... Once you are famous you don't suddenly disappear from people's heads. For example I know who Burt Reynolds is. What is the last thing he ever did? Want to talk football, then what about Bobby Charlton? Is he not as famous now as he was then?

Headrow - a smattering of shops. Not really a recognised destination.

Park Row - no shops.

Eastgate, Albion Place, Commercial Street, King Edward Street, Kirkgate, Briggate, Bond Street - all constituent parts of Leeds' central shopping core that exudes this market town atmosphere I am talking about.

Very pleasant but samey. Like I say, its differnet to Manchester.

**
The substance is there to be seen in the Northern Quarter, Chinatown, Deansgate, King Street, Bridge Street, Oxford Road and Portland Street.


Okay MF the recognised parts of the Leeds City Centre shopping district is
different to manchester.
I'm just suggesting that Leeds also as well as that square mile 'market feel'
place also has the proper street element shoping experience as well.

I personally wouldn't class Chinatown in a shopping contest! yes it has it's
supermarkets and bric a brac but that's it and what's more there's not a lot
of them. What several shops?

Your not quite making yourself clear on the substance. What is in Northern
Quarter, Deansgate, King Street, Bridge Street, Oxford Road and Portland
Street that can't be found in Leeds.

grego66 Leeds its not well known just face it. People know the name of Manchester & Liverpool but don't really know Leeds. Not much you can do about it. Unless you can prove what Leeds is well known for.

You only get well known if you have some good or are really big. New york and Hong Kong class as big cities that are just well known. Manchester and Liverpool are well known not for being massive but having some mint which other cities can not all have.
If Manchester didnt have Manchester untied they wouldn't be well know. If Liverpool didnt have there music we would both be like Leeds.

I'm just suggesting that Leeds also as well as that square mile 'market feel'
place also has the proper street element shoping experience as well.

I'm suggesting that Leeds doesn't have recognised, established and distinctive destinations outside of its shopping core which exudes this famous "bustle" you talk about.... in the way there are several streets and districts in Manchester that do.

I personally wouldn't class Chinatown in a shopping contest! yes it has it's
supermarkets and bric a brac but that's it and what's more there's not a lot
of them. What several shops?

Supermarkets, bakeries, restaurants, hairdressers, a smattering of conventional retail-type shopping but mainly service-type shops I'd agree. Nevertheless a distinct district with a critical mass serving a purpose that isn't fulfilled in the same way elsewhere.

Your not quite making yourself clear on the substance. What is in Northern
Quarter, Deansgate, King Street, Bridge Street, Oxford Road and Portland
Street that can't be found in Leeds.

Shops that don't have a presence in Leeds. Plenty of them.

I've just bin looking on the world skybar and theres some people from the US and other places which have said that the Favorites Music bands are the smiths and Oasis. I though no one in the USA had heard of them...... grego66 I think you need to think more about what your typing. I type down some quality stuff sometimes but most of the time am just messing about. My last few posts are quality.

You mean they'll drop into insignificance like Liverpool FC did? Whatever... Once you are famous you don't suddenly disappear from people's heads. For example I know who Burt Reynolds is. What is the last thing he ever did? Want to talk football, then what about Bobby Charlton? Is he not as famous now as he was then?


EB God love you.
No one has heard of Bobby Moore let alone Bobby Charlton in the US and I
doubt even your average footy fan in Europe knows who he is.
I mean can you tell me the name of the man who captained W.Germany to
World Cup Victory in 1974 never mind when they won it in 1954, I mean jeez
do you know who their captain was who lead them to victory in 1990? Never
mind another player who played for the side. BC is only known in certain
circles through his work with the olympic bid. Hardly anyone outside of the UK
knows who BC is.
Everyone has heard of Burt Reynolds because of Hollywood but his fame wont
last. The youngsters of today don't know who he is and what's more NO-ONE
knows where he is from LOL By the way BC is from the North East...Doh.

Liverpool FC haven't dropped into insignificance! They are the most succesful
club ever in English indeed British football. That team you are on about are
succesful at business. Like I said when footy gets back to being a sport people
will reflect and see what a sham it was.

I've just bin looking on the world skybar and theres some people from the US and other places which have said that the Favorites Music bands are the smiths and Oasis. I though no one in the USA had heard of them...... grego66 I think you need to think more about what your typing. I type down some quality stuff sometimes but most of the time am just messing about. My last few posts are quality.


Please just shut up. You are blowing your own trumpet through a rolled up
piece of newspaper.
I never said they were unknown 'period'. I said they were largely unkown and
they are. Largely unkown.

You know am right & I take its that why your telling me to shut up. Plus your right I do talk some shite. 1 more little thing about the US. Most of them dont care about football so I wouldnt bother involving them in to the world of football.

BYE BYE

I'm suggesting that Leeds doesn't have recognised, established and distinctive destinations outside of its shopping core which exudes this famous "bustle" you talk about.... in the way there are several streets and districts in Manchester that do.
Supermarkets, bakeries, restaurants, hairdressers, a smattering of conventional retail-type shopping but mainly service-type shops I'd agree. Nevertheless a distinct district with a critical mass serving a purpose that isn't fulfilled in the same way elsewhere.
Shops that don't have a presence in Leeds. Plenty of them.

No MF your'e getting as bas as EB now. You can exclude prominent parts of
Leeds city centre and focus the argument on the square mile 'market feel' but
yet you include Chinatown. Chinatown? I've been and there's nothing really of
substance there when it comes to shops or stores.
I didn't include Granary Wharf, the Corn Exchange or kirkgate, lower Briggate,
New Briggate, Merrion Street and probably many more that all fall outside of
the square mile. There's plenty more to Leeds than the tourist square mile.

So that's it? that's the substance that's the range:
"Shops that don't have a presence in Leeds. Plenty of them"
Well there's no argument there; only that there is Plenty of shops in Leeds
that can't be found in manchester! So what!

Most of them dont care about football so I wouldnt bother involving them in to the world of football.

BYE BYE

Well you are absolutely right there. They are scared of footy or soccer as
they say. Scared of it taking over and so they largely snub it in the media etc.
When the USA got to the quarter finals of the World Cup the media largely
ignored it. Didn't even make back page in most papers.

BYE

Granary Wharf - I'll give you that one. Now THAT is a distinctive shopping area outside of the central shopping core in the city centre of Leeds. I forgot about that. That's one exception to that very plesant but samey market-town bustley atmosphere (that you brought up) which is prevalent in Leeds's shopping offer.

**

As for the claim of a better range of shops in Manchester, you asked for substance and I listed a number of areas which contain a number of shops in terms of offer, size, choice, quality and quantity which I don't believe can be rivalled in Leeds. What more do you want? A list? If you know Manchester as you claim, I don't think you can really dispute this.

Leeds No.1, my point was not that Bobby Charlton is known worldwide or that people know where Burt Reynolds is from. My point is that they are just as famous right now as they were back in their day. Why? Because fame doesn't just disappear! In the same way, Manchester United will continue to be as famous as they are right now even if they fail to win trophies for a few seasons. If Burt Reynolds was called something like New York Reynolds instead and was from New York then anyone who remembered him would in turn remember where he was from. Same with Manchester United.

All hail leeds!

Granary Wharf - I'll give you that one. Now THAT is a distinctive shopping area outside of the central shopping core in the city centre of Leeds. I forgot about that. That's one exception to that very plesant but samey market-town characteristic which is prevalent in Leeds's shopping offer.

**
As for the claim of a better range of shops in Manchester, you asked for substance and I listed a number of areas which contain a number of shops in terms of offer, size, choice, quality and quantity which I don't believe can be rivalled in Leeds. What more do you want? A list? If you know Manchester as you claim, I don't think you can really dispute this.

I know the streets you mentioned but really you are just sounding like a
publicist for these areas. Basically they are nothing more than streets with
shops in them. End of. Using words like offer, size, choice, quality and
quantity I mean that's just whaffle. There's nothing distinctive from these
streets which sets them apart from let's say the Headrow/Eastgate combined
which basically is just one long street at the end of the day.
Leeds has shops and streets like these! I don't get it.
What's more I never said Leeds was actually better than manchester for
shopping (I don't think) I only had a problem with EB claiming Leeds wasn't
in the same league as manchester for shopping which in my experienced
opinion is absurd.
The things I have said about the issue and I have said this on another
thread in the past is that manchesters shopping area is spread over a larger
area than Leeds but basically each city as much the same to offer.

Leeds No.1, my point was not that Bobby Charlton is known worldwide or that people know where Burt Reynolds is from. My point is that they are just as famous right now as they were back in their day. Why? Because fame doesn't just disappear! In the same way, Manchester United will continue to be as famous as they are right now even if they fail to win trophies for a few seasons. If Burt Reynolds was called something like New York Reynolds instead and was from New York then anyone who remembered him would in turn remember where he was from. Same with Manchester United.


Clark Gable - Eva Gabor - Greta Garbo - Ava Gardner - Charlie Chaplin.
These people were world famous in their day.
How many kids/teens/young adults have heard of them. Fame is fleeting for
most.
Same with that team. If all of a sudden they become unsuccesful then in a few
years time no one outside of the UK and within certain circles of Europe will
have heard of them.

I'd say most kids would have heard of all of them.

If Liverpool didnt have there music we would both be like Leeds.

Bollocks. If nine million people left for the new world through the docks at Leeds, and had that forever ingrained into their family history you might have a point. Hundreds of thousands of people turn up in Liverpool every year to see their ancestors point of departure. They are currently linking Ellis Island in New York with Liverpool museum so people can trace their family history.

Do you know about the Titanic? The Lustitania?
The film with that Di Caprio twat was pretty successful at the box office, wasn't it? Did you see the words 'Titanic, Leeds' on the screen in five foot high letters? Me neither...

One of Mexico's largest stores is named after a certain place in Northern England too, because of historic trade links. It aint Pueto De Leeds mate. Macey's in NY even had a department selling Liverpool wares a couple of years back.

Liverpool is also home to two of the most successful teams in English football. Leeds isn't even home to one.

Even without our musical heritage (more no.1 singles than any other city on the planet-up yours Detroit!) we're still a tad more influentual than Leeds.

Other than the main shopping centres- Merrion, St. John's, Headrow, The Light, Victoria Quarter, Shopping Plaza and Trinity Quarter, Leeds has so many unique shopping areas like Granary Wharf to be redeveloped and the Corn Exchange, not forgetting the many arcades- No city in the UK has as many arcades as Leeds.
You can't say Leeds is just a big market town because while it does have lots of markets, as does London and other cities, it manages to still be a core city, one of the biggest in the country.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=124316&page=1&pp=20 Thoughout this thread are some real good pictures of the skyline, which is always changing- most of those are old because theres so many things on the skyline now that weren't then. Its the ones from the near distances that are bad. If you go back about 6km out of the city centre theres some good shots to be taken from most directions because of the terrain.
I'm sure in Manchester theres angles where you get a bad skyline and others where its good. Just like Leeds, except in Leeds theres always a skyline from whichever way you come in because whichever way you come in you have to come down a hill so you can look over the city.

im sorry, but eccles has a better skyline than leeds.

im sorry, but eccles has a better skyline than leeds.

Well... not better. But around the same!

http://img145.exs.cx/img145/1176/ecclesskyline4oj.jpg

http://img145.exs.cx/img145/3234/ecclesskyline21gw.jpg

And Ashton-Under-Lyne, with it's 16 highrises, is probably pushing it close too! :lol:

I went though Leeds I couldnt even see a skyline, just a sea of houses.

see even the suburbs of manchester have skylines that are close in size to leeds. says it all really.

Pendleton and Salford Quays alone both have better skylines than Leeds.

Happy Christmas to everyone. :)

Bollocks. If nine million people left for the new world through the docks at Leeds, and had that forever ingrained into their family history you might have a point. Hundreds of thousands of people turn up in Liverpool every year to see their ancestors point of departure. They are currently linking Ellis Island in New York with Liverpool museum so people can trace their family history.
Do you know about the Titanic? The Lustitania?
The film with that Di Caprio twat was pretty successful at the box office, wasn't it? Did you see the words 'Titanic, Leeds' on the screen in five foot high letters? Me neither...
One of Mexico's largest stores is named after a certain place in Northern England too, because of historic trade links. It aint Pueto De Leeds mate. Macey's in NY even had a department selling Liverpool wares a couple of years back.
Liverpool is also home to two of the most successful teams in English football. Leeds isn't even home to one.
Even without our musical heritage (more no.1 singles than any other city on the planet-up yours Detroit!) we're still a tad more influentual than Leeds.

I'd just like to point out that it was manchester that loaded liverpools gun on
this one. No Leeds forumer is claiming Leeds has an history like liverpools.

However when it comes to the current day and more excitingly the future of
our two cities. Bring it On pool. :)

I think in terms of development, Leeds and Liverpool are at a stalemate. Leeds may have more developments but they are mostly average apartment buildings. Liverpool's developments are much more exciting and beneficial for the city.

I wouldnt say they were all apartments- alot are though, but theres alot of others. Many are mixed use, Quarry Hill developments are cultural, Proposed Harewood Quarter and Trinity Quarter is commercial, Civic Quarter is cultural, Riverside is mainly apartments but things like Granary Wharf and the city station is there-so alot is residential but theres lots of other things as well. Leeds is booming and its great for the city- it greatly improves its underrated image.
The only thing though is nothing is particularly of the 'wow' factor for the city or nothing you would make a special trip to see. Nothin beneficial to tourism or attention...etc
Newcastle has the riverside and Angel of the North, Liverpool has the waterfront, Glasgow also has the waterfront as well as Edinburgh having the castle. Manchester has B of the Bang now, London is obvious. Not sure about Birmingham though- but Leeds and Birmingham are both big cities of similar importance but none have any major landmark things built or under construction. So basically they could do with some of those.

Leeds and Birmingham are both big cities of similar importance
:?

I'll have a bit of that Grego66,with our new concert arena/conferance centre,the airport about to expand for the second time in the last few years,a brand new cruise liner terminal,Europes biggest retail development on site(over 30 new buildings and many conversions),capital of culture 2008,World heritage status,a new football ground for liverpool and 12 tower proposals since Beetham 1(all in the city centre)Aintree racecourse being revamped and a new tram system,and as well as you say the history with our national museums and galleries for the North of England and more Grade 2 listed buildings than anyone outside of London and many more things too numerous to mention I say Bring it On Leeds. :)
Incidently I think it's great that all of our cities seem to be totally changing.

Of course, the trams. The trams will have a whole host of economic benefits for Liverpool, benefits which Leeds wont get because theirs was cancelled. Obviously, the government thought Manchester and Liverpool were far more worthier cities! :yes:

Accura your being nice to Liverpool,have you been drinking. :sly:

Its xmas everyone is drinking........ :cheers:

Accura your being nice to Liverpool,have you been drinking. :sly:
Just because I slag off Liverpool frequently doesnt mean I hate it. I just love Preston so much! :hug:

I just love Preston so much! :hug:

He HAS been drinking! :cheers:

He HAS been drinking! :cheers:
No shit sherlock :D

http://img156.exs.cx/img156/2641/me0dv.jpg

Its Xmas Eve!

LOL :hilarious

Trust you to be drinking Stella you little chav you. :D

Whos the piss ed in the pic. I've just got a crate of Stella cos couldn't get no buds :bash:

Hehe, is that you Accy? Ace pic.

Have a moment to bask in the glory of my unruly mane.

http://images.faceparty.com/public/1024/images/jpquigley_10038970.jpg

Yep, thats me!

Im currently trying to get my hair long like in your pic. Its becoming pretty popular now.

Ok you little piss head, we'll slowly see your typing get worst along with your spelling. :cheers:

Nonsense! I'm an Enlish A grader!!! :tongue:

Hey Accura - you've gone from Dave Pearce (bball cap) to Mickey Pearce!!

Happy Christmas you boring arrogant self satisfying smug wankey Mancs; you thieving moaning self wallowing laughter-a-minute- ho ho Tarby-looking Scousers; you self deluding whippet hiding flat cap wearing my dick is bigger than yours stupid Loiners!
Happy Christmas to you all! And keep sticking a sock in your beak Earlybird!

Nonsense! I'm an Enlish A grader!!! :tongue:
Your losing it already "enlish" lol

It's called irony.

Hey Accura - you've gone from Dave Pearce (bball cap) to Mickey Pearce!!

Happy Christmas you boring arrogant self satisfying smug wankey Mancs; you thieving moaning self wallowing laughter-a-minute- ho ho Tarby-looking Scousers; you self deluding whippet hiding flat cap wearing my dick is bigger than yours stupid Loiners!
Happy Christmas to you all! And keep sticking a sock in your beak Earlybird!

Happy Christmas to you as well you cockface. :tongue2:

merry fucking christmas from birmingham

Accy, for the love of God, don't use comic sans serif when marking your pics. It's the font of the devil.

Shouldn't you be in bed, Baby Features? ;)

The school I work in swears by Comic Sans. I think it's because the letters are correctly formed. I think it's hideous, personally.

I find it's men going through a mid life crisis who tend to find this font cool.

Merry Xmas from Lancashire!

From a neutral point of view(or maybe not so neutral being from Sheffield), Leeds comes no where near manchester in anything. The only thing leeds is best at is sucking its own cock and feeding off self hype. Many cities are better than leeds for shopping now, but just because there is a harvey nicks in leeds they refuse to accept it.The corn exchange is awful these days. It has no cultural significance compared with manchester or liverpool(the smiths are the best band ever IMO!!). In terms of facilities leeds is a joke, unlike sheff and mancs which have athletics stadiums, large arenas, olympic swimming pools and english institutes of sports. There is nothing in leeds to entice me from my own city or my other city of residence, Newcastle(which is class). All that talk of the UK's favourite city is toss and again is just self hype. Manchester is bigger and better than any of the northern cities and Leeds will never come close.

Ta.

Pretty Damning from a fellow yorkshireman,Ah poor Leeds :pet:

Are you sure the fact he's from Sheffield doesn't have something to do with it? ;)

Its true though.

That's what I've been saying about Leeds since I moved here and I just get hounded out of threads by over zealous wankers. I may swear a bit, but my arguments against Leeds are always constructed with a bit of thought, yet the usual creche of twats pipe up telling me to fuck off back to Manchester.

And somehow, it's always me that comes out looking out of order. Maybe the fact another Yorkshireman addressed my points will finally get these uppity fucks to stop being so God damned self righteous.

From a neutral point of view(or maybe not so neutral being from Sheffield), Leeds comes no where near manchester in anything. The only thing leeds is best at is sucking its own cock and feeding off self hype. Many cities are better than leeds for shopping now, but just because there is a harvey nicks in leeds they refuse to accept it.The corn exchange is awful these days. It has no cultural significance compared with manchester or liverpool(the smiths are the best band ever IMO!!). In terms of facilities leeds is a joke, unlike sheff and mancs which have athletics stadiums, large arenas, olympic swimming pools and english institutes of sports. There is nothing in leeds to entice me from my own city or my other city of residence, Newcastle(which is class). All that talk of the UK's favourite city is toss and again is just self hype. Manchester is bigger and better than any of the northern cities and Leeds will never come close.

Ta.


Not bad for a first post but he immediately loses any valid argument by
describing Leeds as a joke! and that the Smiths? are the best band ROFLMAO

If indeed this one is from sheffield he is nothing more than a manchester
brown noser or indeed a manchester wannabee.

I mean one could really, really hate Leeds City but to say there is loads of
places better than Leeds for shopping is just plain untrue. I mean no one
with a straight face would suggest sheffield even comes close for shopping!

He says "Newcastle which is class" Okay then why do coach loads of folk from
Newcastle and indeed Sunderland and Middlesborough as well as surrounding
areas take trips to Leeds every weekend to go shopping?

"Leeds will never come close" but idiot we are already close in certain areas
and are catching up in others. Leeds City is still in its very early stages of
development. Sheffied has had its day and didn't make the most of it. The only
place manchester can go is up!

The fact this item felt he had to make such a post would suggest Leeds City
is rubbing him up the wrong way. It's plain old jealousy.

A point of note. This is what makes Yorkshire so different from Lancashire or
GM etc. The rivalry, people on here choose where they are from in the NW will
back each other up. People from Yorkshire if they are not Loiners have just got
a serious case of Green Eyed Monster.

Ta

That is actually quite true- Sheffield or Newcastle come nowhere near to Leeds with shopping. There is Meadowhall but if you take Leeds' shopping centres put them together its bigger than Meadowhall and has the same shops and more probably. The only thing Leeds doesn't have is John Lewis.
So you can't really say Leeds is rubbish for shopping when Sheffield is what it is.

That's what I've been saying about Leeds since I moved here and I just get hounded out of threads by over zealous wankers. I may swear a bit, but my arguments against Leeds are always constructed with a bit of thought, yet the usual creche of twats pipe up telling me to fuck off back to Manchester.

And somehow, it's always me that comes out looking out of order. Maybe the fact another Yorkshireman addressed my points will finally get these uppity fucks to stop being so God damned self righteous.


Trouble with you Dee Generate is that you never balance any argument with
positive aspects of the city.
I have never ever read something you wrote that reflects something good about
the city and there must be something you like about Leeds otherwise you
would move to Dewsbury like I suggested a while back.
The other fella who backed you up is from sheffield; unlike the NW Yorkshire
has real rivalry. That's why I can't understand why the people of Salford have
no identity. If the same situation was in Leeds both cities would be crying out
for their own territory and identity.
This sheffield character is jealous, don't take any comfort from the fact a
wannabee like that is backing you up cause you'll just end up sounding desperate
if you do and you wouldn't want that; hey.

Pretty Damning from a fellow yorkshireman,Ah poor Leeds :pet:


Paul quit with the sympathy fella don't take this piece literally otherwise
arenas of debate like this will become nothing more than a joke.

He's from sheffield get it? sheffield ROFLMAO

That is actually quite true- Sheffield or Newcastle come nowhere near to Leeds with shopping. There is Meadowhall but if you take Leeds' shopping centres put them together its bigger than Meadowhall and has the same shops and more probably. The only thing Leeds doesn't have is John Lewis.
So you can't really say Leeds is rubbish for shopping when Sheffield is what it is.


Yeh but also I'm talking about the ambience in the city. The convenience, the
hustle and bustle. The pedestrianisation is fantastic in Leeds. No where comes
close and shoppers love this, not having to worry about crossing streets busy
with cars etc.
Nowhere comes close to Leeds for shopping. No one from sheffied can actually
claim the meadowhall as a city shopping attribute.

Its true though.

Oh Good God AP.

I don't even wanna ask this but okay... what's true?

See, this is why you and your lot are so fucking infuriatingly laughable, you take every fucking criticism about Leeds to heart. Grow the fuck up and accept that "outsiders" may not like the fucking place. Christ, somebody has a go at Manc and you'll have a couple of dicks who get ignored and the majority just telling you different, no personal attacks. Since I've stated how unhappy I am in Leeds, I've had tits on here wishing I was dead/failing uni/fuck off back to where I came from (only 2 steps away from being a racist xenophobe, chaps!).

Stop being such a fucking vadge.

Yeah I thought the same about 'whats true'. Yes Leeds has phonemonal pedestrianization but in the newly developing areas to the fringes of the city, facilites lack.

Gregoo - consider that I honestly haven't found any good points to Leeds to suit me and my friends who are of a similar ilk and from various parts of the country. Then you'll eventually come to the realisation that I don't *have* any positive points to make about Leeds. Say what you will, but it's a personal opinion. Although you'll probably just launch into some brainless tirade about me being shit and Leeds is better than Manc without me even once comparing the cities.

What on Earth does Vadge mean.

Use your loaf. Vagina.

Well Manchester has loads more run down areas than Leeds for one thing. Away from the centre of Mandchester its not exaclty massively dense or developed. Obviously all cities have good and bad parts. A good thing about Leeds is that you can speed straight from the M62 to the city centre without needing to go round all the houses and suburbs like in Manchester and most cities- an excpetion would be Glasgow for example.

Oh Good God AP.

I don't even wanna ask this but okay... what's true?
What jazz-sheff said.

The pedestrianisation is fantastic in Leeds. No where comes
close and shoppers love this, not having to worry about crossing streets busy
with cars etc.
Pedestrianisation? Thats sooooooo provincial...

No one from sheffied can actually
claim the meadowhall as a city shopping attribute.
People shop there, and its in Sheffield. So its a shopping attribute.
I am also against the idea of out of town malls and massive retail parks but they exist and we have to accept it. I hate the Trafford Centre (as most mancs do) and I hate Middlebrook and I hate Meadowhall...

This sheffield character is jealous
Sheffield has much more character than Leeds IMO. Leeds is becoming an indistinguishable town of countless new apartment developments, one looking pretty similar to the other. Sheffield is more creative. The Peace Gardens are 10 times better than City Square.

The rivalry, people on here choose where they are from in the NW will
back each other up.
Better to suck the other cocks of the Northwest than to suck my own :D

Seriously, what does that have to do with anything?

You're now saying Leeds is better than any city in Britain except for Glasgow because you have a motorway into the city? Seriously, how old are you?

See, this is why you and your lot are so fucking infuriatingly laughable, you take every fucking critisicm about Leeds to heart. Grow the fuck up and accept that "outsiders" may not like the fucking place. Christ, somebody has a go at Manc and you'll have a couple of dicks and the majority just telling you different, no personal attacks. Since I've stated how unhappy I am in Leeds, I've had tits on here wishing I was dead/failing uni/fuck off back to where I came from (only 2 steps away from being a racist xenophobe, chaps!).

Stop being such a fucking vadge.


He said more than he didn't like it. It was a direct attack, his first post! he
didn't even bother to introduce himself. Nothing short of a troll post, what
got me is the fact that established posters like you rushing in to agree with
him.
You should have seen beyond his post and viewed its real intention. It wasn't
designed for a base of debate it was a troll attack designed to wind people up.
I know people from 'outside' Leeds dont like it and I haven't got a problem with
that, just you always seem to be whinging -on the Leeds forum- and that just
gets annoying. Everyones entitled to their opinion but not everyones entitled
to be a pain the arse.

Hang on 2 fuckign seconds Grego, whether it be a troll or a genuinely nice guy from Sheffield is irrelevant. He posted something I agreed with, therefore, I post my agreement. It's not like I've never fucking been to Leeds so have no right to judge now is it, I've spent well over a year there and have every fuckign right to say what I wish about the city.

The point is, you just cannot accept that others may have a disparaging opinion of leeds. I don't walk around telling people Leeds is shit, it's people are shit etc, I tell people why I don't like living there. There's a big fucking difference. I also posted that message you quoted as a direct response to you, not him. So how about not skirting around the subject and actually fucking addressing my point, i.e., that of you acting like a prick to anybody who doesn't happen to think Leeds is the new super bread slicer 4000.

Well in Manchester you have to go all round the houses which is slower and it means the bad areas are one of the 1st impressions to the city.
I like out-of-town shopping centres but they definetley take trade away from the centre- Sheffield doesn't have nearly as much quality in the centre as it did before Meadowhall. Its not as busy in the centre anymore either, many shops moved into Meadowhall which is much better location for shoppers from Rotherham and Sheffield as well as served by the M1 from Leeds and Nottingham.
So in some ways Im glad Leeds doesn't have a Meadowhall like shopping centre.

Leeds still has the regular high-street stores but it has some very unique things like Granary Wharf to be redeveloped, Corn Xchange, Kirkgate Market, Civic Quarter, Victoria Quarter and Briggate, not forgetting the arcades. No city in the UK has as many arcades as Leeds. So it hasn't really lost character- You could go into Leeds and instantly recognise it was Leeds. The fringes of the city centre though is becoming quite regular though with the same apartments and offices springing up- Im sure this will change once people start to move in though, and the major mixed use developments get underway like Criterion and BWP when finished.

I would honestly love you to explain how Leeds is greater than Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle and London for shopping.

Go on. Consider it your post Christmas challenge.

Well Manchester has loads more run down areas than Leeds for one thing. Away from the centre of Mandchester its not exaclty massively dense or developed. Obviously all cities have good and bad parts. A good thing about Leeds is that you can speed straight from the M62 to the city centre without needing to go round all the houses and suburbs like in Manchester and most cities- an excpetion would be Glasgow for example.
You can do that with Manchester and most cities. I can get into Manchester city centre from where I am in half an hour. The M61 takes me straight to the M60 where I come off at the huge intersection onto the A6 through the outer suburbs of Worsley and Swinton on a three lane dual carrigeway (or alternatively I could continue on the M60 through Eccles and come off at the Mancunian Way which would allow me to go into the east side of M'cr city centre) through Irlam with only one set of traffic lights and then through the much denser inner suburb of Pendleton. Then it takes me past Salford University and into the city centre. The dual carrigeway stops and then I'm pretty much right in the centre of Manchester. I could turn right to park in Spinningfields or left to park at Greengate or straight on to park at the NYNEX or Deansgate. Considering I live in Central Lancashire, thats not at all bad.

What jazz-sheff said.


Pedestrianisation? Thats sooooooo provincial...


People shop there, and its in Sheffield. So its a shopping attribute.
I am also against the idea of out of town malls and massive retail parks but they exist and we have to accept it. I hate the Trafford Centre (as most mancs do) and I hate Middlebrook and I hate Meadowhall...


Sheffield has much more character than Leeds IMO. Leeds is becoming an indistinguishable town of countless new apartment developments, one looking pretty similar to the other. Sheffield is more creative. The Peace Gardens are 10 times better than City Square.


Better to suck the other cocks of the Northwest than to suck my own :D


Pedestrianisation makes for very good and convenient city centre shopping.
By the way the meadowhall is nowhere near the city centre and we were
debating city centre shopping.
Leeds as well as the inner city square mile that is all Pedestrianised also as its
proper city feel streets but the tourists largely ignore these... but they are
there.
Great you feel that sheffield as more character, that's your opinion and already
you have made more sense than that jaz charcter because you explained why.
On that point how anyone can deny the character of Kirkgate Market or
Granary Wharf is beyond me. By the way we are still talking about city centre
shopping aren't we?

That's the most idiotic point you've made so far No1 (regarding motorways). Well done.

Look at the general approaches into Birmingham. Much more rank than most cities I've visited in Britain, yet, lo and behold, it's Britain's second city. So what exactly does your point mean?

Hang on 2 fuckign seconds Grego, whether it be a troll or a genuinely nice guy from Sheffield is irrelevant. He posted something I agreed with, therefore, I post my agreement. It's not like I've never fucking been to Leeds so have no right to judge now is it, I've spent well over a year there and have every fuckign right to say what I wish about the city.

The point is, you just cannot accept that others may have a disparaging opinion of leeds. I don't walk around telling people Leeds is shit, it's people are shit etc, I tell people why I don't like living there. There's a big fucking difference. I also posted that message you quoted as a direct response to you, not him. So how about not skirting around the subject and actually fucking addressing my point, i.e., that of you acting like a prick to anybody who doesn't happen to think Leeds is the new super bread slicer 4000.


Skirting round what?
I said and it was directed at you that you are a whinger and a pain in the
arse. What part of that don't you understand?
People are entitled to their opinion and I know there's loads of people who
don't like Leeds it's just that you drone on like a sherry stewed old lady about
the place and it gets a tad trying to say the least.
I can take critiscism of my city but I don't like to be nagged about its downfalls.

Yeah but the only real way you can do it in Manchester is A57(M) Mancunian Way-M602. Thats only useful if you come in from the West.

In Leeds you can go straight into the city centre from the West or The South nearly all on high-speed road. (M1/M621)
From the North the A1 comes into the city although a good road could be done with here, but its not coming from any main urban area except Newcastle a good way off.

Once you come off the M621 you go straight onto a hi-speed dual carriageway which with a few improvements such as a junction at Armley and multiple viaducts into 1, could really be a motorway. You literally go straight under or through the suburbs into the city centre- you don't really see much of the suburbs when going in.
Then you can go straight to the other side of the city by underpassing on the Inner Ring Road and out the other side. I admit then it goes a bit wrong but thats not such a busy route. From the South East there a variety of high speed one way roads and dual carriageways- it does involve going round the houses a bit but its all redeveloping so is really quite a good first impression.

Jesus fucking Christ, it's like teaching a spastic to wank.

Forget it alright. But take this as a bit of notice - you and no1 are the *only* people who get uppity about home criticisms, no other Leeds member does.

Now before you piss off to your Livejournal and post "hmmmm, maybe I actually am wrong? No, no, it must be everybody else", try comprehending for 2 fucking seconds that you're just making you and your own City look even fucking worse amongst this miriad of shit you both post.

Good day.

Jesus fucking Christ, it's like teaching a spastic to wank.

Forget it alright. But take this as a bit of notice - you and no1 are the *only* people who get uppity about home criticisms, no other Leeds member does.

Now before you piss off to your Livejournal and post "hmmmm, maybe I actually am wrong? No, no, it must be everybody else", try comprehending for 2 fucking seconds that you're just making you and your own City look even fucking worse amongst this miriad of shit you both post.

Good day.


Yeh okay, but this after I said that I can take criticism of my city! Just that
you D sometimes goes a bit overboard.

Well Birmingham was built for cars wasn't it- it only grew in the last century when cars were coming in so thats why. But London is a perfect example, Edinburgh another, Liverpool you have to go round the houses once you're off the M62, and Sheffield is exactly the same as is Newcastle. Manchester allows this from the West but thats not much good- It would do better with having built a motorway from the west instead of some of the motorways around Greater Manchester- many are just useless.

M67, A6144(M), and the A627(M) are all pointless. The route of the M66 could just be a high standard dual carriageway like the A55 and the money spent on the M66 could go towards a more needed direct link from the east.

If you want to be really pedantic no1, it's easy to branch onto the Mancunian way from the M60. Can't remember the junction, but you just come to a round about, go straight up Regent Road which then turns into the Mancy way.

There's your precious fucking motorway route to the centre.

It means nothing. Really. Get over it.

I don't think we need the racist (thats the nearest word I can think of) here. And you can't say that we're stupid coz you hardly know more words than those swear words which are in ever sentence.
You get too worked up. You haven't even said why Manchester is so good and Leeds is so bad anyway.

Don't play then high and mighty card. It's a nothing word and you know damn well it's not a slight on anyone who's in any way handicapped.

And there again, you go comparing Manchester and Leeds. Tell me, when have I said Leeds is shit because Manchester has....? I haven't, I've said (time and fucking time again) that my reasons for disliking Leeds are purely relative to myself and the type of young person I and many of my friends are. Can you try reading what I type next time or are you completely illiterate?

I don't think we need the racist (thats the nearest word I can think of) here. And you can't say that we're stupid coz you hardly know more words than those swear words which are in ever sentence.
You get too worked up. You haven't even said why Manchester is so good and Leeds is so bad anyway.
Hang on a minute!
You are in no position to be complaining about criticism made against Leeds. From the day you joined these forums a few months back, you made it completely clear that you were against Manchester and anything Mancunian and that anything from Leeds was far superior.
Second, he has constructively criticised Leeds on the basis of being a student living in Leeds. Is that really so unreasonable?

I find it laughably ironic you chastise me for my lack of "Queen's English" vocabulary, yet in the same very sentence say "coz".

Yeah, that's right baby. "Coz".

I find it laughably ironic you chastise me for my vocabulary, yet in the same very sentence say "coz".

Yeah, that's right baby. "Coz".

No that's just his form of shorthand which everyone can understand.
We all know he means 'because' or 'cause'.
I think he was more referring to your gratuitous use of colourful and to
a large extent offensive language.

You're both arguing like children now. Begone with you, I'm sure you have Lego or some other shit to play with.

Second, he has constructively criticised Leeds on the basis of being a student living in Leeds. Is that really so unreasonable?

If that was the case I wouldn't have a problem. He is constantly droning on
about negative aspects of the city. It gets boring.
He said he's only been in Leeds a year. It took me two years at least before
I really started to appreciate the good stuff in manchester.

I don't think we need the racist (thats the nearest word I can think of) here.

:bash:

How would racist be the nearest word? How are Loiners a race? It's nowhere near the nearest word.

I never said I hate Manchester but they claim it to be so many things and don't have any back up for it or anything but get away with it being 'supposedly' right. E.g, since when has Manchester been the UK's 2nd city. Officially it was 9th in 2001, and whatever you want to argue its common knowledge that Birmingham is 2nd and is in a well established place as 2nd.
I think its more that Manchester can't quite get to grips on how fast Leeds has grown and how quickly its gone from a small city into a major core city.

I never said anything about Queen's English. I meant the fact that you swear so much that its meaningless and stupid- not even scals or chavs swear as much as that. And the 'Jesus Fucking Christ' was way over the top and most sites would have banned you straight away for that because its like racist.

How's that racist? You clearly haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

Because its blasphomous against Christianity. Why would I have said it if I didn't know what I was talking about- hah. Next time think. Might be hard learning a new concept but Im sure you'll get there.

I think its more that Manchester can't quite get to grips on how fast Leeds has grown and how quickly its gone from a small city into a major core city.

What I 'can't get to grips with', is you coming on here and spouting crap about Leeds being better and bigger than Manchester. Because it has more people in it's political ward boundary.
You back that up with endless drivel and false figures, when they are disproved you ignore it and keep posting them.

Maybe one day Leeds will be as big and important as Manchester and Birmingham are, it might take 15 years, it might take 100 years, but however long it takes, it isn't today.

And in case you haven't noticed, Manchester is 20 years ahead of Leeds, and that gap isn't closing.

Because its blasphomous against Christianity. Why would I have said it if I didn't know what I was talking about- hah. Next time think. Might be hard learning a new concept but Im sure you'll get there.

CHRISTIANS ARE NOT A RACE.

So it isn't racist. Fool.

Confusing racism with blasphemy isn't easy but well done, you've somehow managed it.

And it's not blasphemy. Blasphemy, in the true sense, would be to rubbish Jesus or God (or whichever God you happen to follow). I'm a Roman Catholic and damn proud of it too. However, I've got the nouse about me realise that there are a hell of a lot more important things in the world to take a stand over than the adding of "fucking" between the Lord's name.

You're scraping an already worn out barrel. Come on, find something else I've said and try and make me look a **** for that.

LN1 didn't say it was racist he said it was the nearest word he could think of.
He is right as well most boards including one other I post to ( a Leeds United
chat board) would have deleted dgnr8's posts as well as delete his account.

He isn't being racist but some of his posts are definitely offensive. Particularly
if one his disabled or Christian. C123 how long would it have been before you
put your mod privelages into action if his language had of been directed
towards the muslim religion? or indeed if he wasn't a pro manc poster?

It fucking stinks ... and that's swearing.

No, it doesn't stink because I'm not attacking any group or person.

Not everything in life is black and white. Use your brain, sometimes deciphering the rights and wrongs of the world can be fun, to a point that you learn NOT TO TAKE EVERYTHING FUCKING LITERALLY

So then what do you call it then....
You seem to claim loads of things about Manchester which is all very well but no back up from other sites. Leeds for example is the UK's 2nd financial and legal centre- www.uksfavouritecity.com
I never said Leeds was better than Manchester, or bigger. But it has a bigger population. Leeds is probably smaller than Manchester in size but Leeds is alot more compact.
Leeds is already as important as Manchester- but both cities aren't near Birmingham or London in importance.
You haven't got anything to say Manchester is 20 years ahead of Leeds. Manchester 20 years ago wasn't like what Leeds is like today. Leeds at the moment is the UK's fastest growing city and has a modern, European style. 20 years ago no cities in the UK we're like this. You can be up in yourself now despite being wrong but in 5 years you won't get away with it.

Leeds for example is the UK's 2nd financial and legal centre
:lol: :lol:

And that crappy link you posted means nothing. Its just another example of how good Leeds is at sucking its own cock.

Ah bollocks to it. You have your fantasy world. The rest of the UK will continue rebuilding itself and not engage in pathetic cock waving battles.

No, it doesn't stink because I'm not attacking any group or person.

Not everything in life is black and white. Use your brain, sometimes deciphering the rights and wrongs of the world can be fun, to a point that you learn NOT TO TAKE EVERYTHING FUCKING LITERALLY


First time readers to this board would consider and I quote
"Teaching a spastic how to wank" and "Jesus Fucking Christ"
offensive.
I didn't take offence to the point that I thought you were
being serious but that's only because I know your style of
writing. Other newbies could be drastically offended by that
and C123 is a lilly livvered piece of poo for letting you get
away with it.

Is Gothic as well then? because I've been told off for saying something is gay before, and Gothic stood up for me in the name of common sense.

It's all swings and roundabouts, but your point has no grounds man, and you know that full well.

No, it doesn't stink because I'm not attacking any group or person.

Not everything in life is black and white. Use your brain, sometimes deciphering the rights and wrongs of the world can be fun, to a point that you learn NOT TO TAKE EVERYTHING FUCKING LITERALLY


The smell I was referring to wasn't directed towards your unfortunate
language but directed to C123 for constantly ignoring it. Even though
it goes without saying that you are out of order in some of your posts.
The smell eminates from you and C123 both being manc posters. How
long would a Leeds forumer last constantly using offensive language
like that?

And if you really did know that's my style, why are you even bringing it up? you're not at all bothered about me offending somebody at all, this is nothing but a shitty childish method to try and drum up support for your petty "hate campaign" (to warrant a phrase) against me.

First time readers to this board would consider and I quote
"Teaching a spastic how to wank" and "Jesus Fucking Christ"
offensive.
I didn't take offence to the point that I thought you were
being serious but that's only because I know your style of
writing. Other newbies could be drastically offended by that
and C123 is a lilly livvered piece of poo for letting you get
away with it.
This isnt the NASF forums. We have our own set of rules which tolerates swearing. If you want to live in a prudish and upper lip conservative society, move to Texas.