Airlines, Airplanes and Airports - Compiled Threads [Archive] - Page 39

bartstrife99

May 22nd, 2008, 03:37 PM

Gov’t asks UPS to stay on after Asia hub moves to China

Agence France-Presse
First Posted 17:01:00 05/22/2008

MANILA, Philippines -- The government will ask United Parcel Service to retain part of its operations in the country after the US logistics giant announced it was relocating to southern China, President Gloria Arroyo's spokeswoman said Thursday.

UPS on Wednesday announced the planned transfer of its hub to a more centrally-located $180-million facility to be built at Shenzen airport.

It said the move would place UPS closer to the center of the region's economic activity and would improve customer service by reducing transit times across Asia.

The announcement represents an investment blow to the Philippines, which also faces a possible exit by Intel Corp., the world's top chip maker, from its second offshore assembly operations center in Asia.

Arroyo spokesman Lorelei Fajardo told reporters the airport authorities at Clark airport north of Manila, where UPS had built its $300-million intra-Asia hub in 2002, were in talks with the US firm's representatives to explore alternatives to its planned downsizing.

UPS said on Wednesday that it was "exploring placing alternative operations" at its old Clark hub, which it said would "continue to be a strategic location for UPS's multi-hub network in Asia."

Staff and flights would be reduced, company officials said, but they did not elaborate on the other alternatives.

Fajardo said the Clark International Airport Authority asked UPS to reorient the facility to provide "logistics and supply chain solutions patterned after its facilities in Louisville, Kentucky."

UPS and Clark "are contemplating on a joint study on how to fast-track this in Clark as more international companies have taken a great interest in Clark as a service and logistics hub," the Arroyo aide said.

"This opens more possibilities for more flights not only from the UPS fleet but from other commercial carriers, both full freighters and combination passenger-cargo carriers," she added.

NOVO ECIJANO

May 22nd, 2008, 08:52 PM

http://http://www.mb.com.ph/BSNS20080523125363.html

COSCO prefers JV for $ 5-B project

By BERNIE CAHILES–MAGKILAT

China Ocean Shipping Co. (COSCO), the world’s second largest shipping company, now prefers to pursue its $ 5-billion integrated shipbuilding and international logistics project in the country via joint venture with a local partner shying away from its original investment strategy of directly investing in a wholly-owned local subsidiary.

Getting a local partner that is familiar with the local environment would shield a foreign investor and help facilitate their entry.COSCO’s entry has delayed for almost a year already.

Malacañang special envoy for trade and investments Francis Chua told reporters that company chairman Capt. Wei Jaifu is seriously evaluating possible local partners for the project."

Capt. Wei is looking for a good local partner with strong capability and they are evaluating several interests," Chua said noting there are several local companies engaged in similar activities that could be tapped by COSCO as its local joint venture partner.

The decision of COSCO to go into joint venture with a local partner instead of directly investing in a wholly-owned local subsidiary may have been influenced by the controversies encountered by Hanjin Heavy Industries Corp. for its two huge shipbuilding facilities in Subic and in Misamis Oriental, each costing $ 2 billion.

Aside from being familiar with the local environment, the local entity would be responsible for all its deals in the country. It also reduces political risks on the part of COSCO. Chua said there are lots of local firms that are engaged in shipbuilding, shiprepair and shipyard operations in the country that COSCO can choose from.

In December last year, Chua already urged Capt. Wei to strengthen its local operations by putting up a Philippine office to pave the way for its planned huge investments in the shipping and related projects in the country.

Chua said that COSCO has been operating in the country since the 80s but are merely port calls for its cargo ships.

By beefing up its small local operations, Chua said that COSCO will be sending a positive signal that it is seriously pursuing its interest in the country.

According to Chua, there was a suggestion from a COSCO official to put the planned Philippine operations under its Singapore office.

But Chua noted that placing its Philippine operations under Singapore may not send a good signal for COSCO because this could mean lesser role for the country in its regional operations.

At time, Chua said that COSCO was firming up its plan of splitting up its supposedly integrated international logistics project in the country in two separate areas —one in Subic for its logistics, shipbuilding and industrial zone components and another in Sangley Point in Cavite City for ship repair and maintenance facilities plus a maritime school.

The decision to split the investments into two locations came after determining the viability of having the huge investments located in a single location.

"Wei was also impressed by Subic freeport’s ready port facilities. On the other hand, the Sangley Point in Cavite City still needs a lot of work to be done including the reclamation of some areas," Chua said.

The Chinese shipping company has already received several offers from different local government units including Bataan, Subic, Quezon and a small island in the south."COSCO needs a few hundred hectares because of the industrial zone component," Chua said. Under the Sangley Point plan, COSCO would have to reclaim 4,000 hectares around Cavite because the project is not supposed to displace the Philippine Navy, which is headquartered in Sangley Point.

With the constraint in available space, Chua said Sangley Point could easily accommodate the planned maritime school only and the planned shipbuilding facility and industrial zone in another site.

Chua said that COSCO is taking time for its planned investment and this seemingly slow decision-making process has nothing to do with the controversial National Broadband Network contract with ZTE Corp. of China, which the Philippine government has ordered cancelled.

"The Chinese are not the kind who would back out nor pull out from a project. They would rather proceed on their own time," Chua said.

Wei visited the country in June last year and met with President Gloria Arroyo on the planned investments in the country.(BCM)

Sou-jiro

May 23rd, 2008, 02:23 AM

Damn...Phils is really becoming uncompetitve plus all these aviation fiasco we had to go throught for a while not helping...FAA downgrading, T1 & T3 issues..all these dont help

only good thing i can see is the regional airports are improving...but theyre focusing on the wrong things. too many other unnecessary airports.

they start a new one & leave current one unfixed

DAMN THIS GOVT....lost of fedex was bad enough now ups.....even in terms of tourism they dont know what theyre doing...Phils has alot more than Boracay

anonymous_filipino

May 23rd, 2008, 05:46 AM

Mods, I propose to change the title of this thread to "COSCO plans to build ship repair and maintenance facilities in Sangley Point". The article above confirms what COSCO really plans for Sangley Point

mwg12a

May 23rd, 2008, 09:57 AM

habagatcentral1

May 23rd, 2008, 07:26 PM

I thought RP is going to sign this open-skies policy along with other ASEAN nations? I think I read that at the Manila Bulletin few days ago.

le Reine

May 23rd, 2008, 11:25 PM

My goodness, and what does asking them to stay do to address the real problems here? I'm sure UPS is leaving the Phils not because they just feel like doing it. There are severe issues like costs, efficiency and practicability of operating here, which the government always seems failing to address. And the on-going brouhaha over Clark is also not helping.

brownman

May 24th, 2008, 10:27 AM

Well the government only knows how to move its bum when the damage is already done. But I can't help but to agree on UPS' downsizing decision.

kratos1211

May 24th, 2008, 03:58 PM

UPS to stay, but will reduce operations in Clark, says exec
By Ding Cervantes
Saturday, May 24, 2008

CLARK FREEPORT, Pampanga – United Parcels Service (UPS), the world’s largest express carrier and largest package delivery company, will reduce its daily flights here from 10 to only two, and trim down its personnel from 200 to 70 once it moves its intra-Asia hub to China in 2010.

“It’s a business decision, because about 75 percent of its deliveries are in North Asia, including China, Japan and Korea. Only 25 percent are in Southeast Asia. UPS is merely responding to business realities,” Luciano said.

read full story
http://www.philstar.com/index.php?Headlines&p=49&type=2&sec=24&aid=20080523143

kiretoce

May 24th, 2008, 04:20 PM

“It’s a business decision, because about 75 percent of its deliveries are in North Asia, including China, Japan and Korea. Only 25 percent are in Southeast Asia. UPS is merely responding to business realities,”

I actually believe that statement. With China booming economically, and Japan and Korea already established industrial giants, it only makes sound business sense that East Asia would be served more compared to Southeast Asia.

spearhead

May 24th, 2008, 07:01 PM

No need man. Wala namang kasiguraduhan pa eh.

Maganda dito sa sangley gawan na kasi ng international airport narin, convert the whole area into a joint military and commercial operation and expand it. But first, finish the work in DMIA, while developing the sangley point with the planned COSCO fascilities and hopefully next time develop that joint military/commercial international airport. Tapos isara na ang NAIA after all this done! We need more foreign investors to do my suggestions though.

jcb

May 24th, 2008, 09:46 PM

For me may good reason ang UPS kung bakit nila itratransfer ang Asia HUB operation nila sa China dahil it is thier major client kung ikaw ang may-ari ng company di ba iisipin mo na itayo ang negosyo mo sa mga customer in fact they still maintain their operation here! wag natin sisihin ang gov't natin dahil dito dahil hindi naman sila ang dahilan kung bakit ililipat ang operation nila!

arianespace

May 25th, 2008, 02:03 AM

It's both interesting and sad that we're actually prioritizing the building of new airports to upgrading facilities. The new airports in Iloilo and Bacolod/Silay are indeed necessary as they are trunkline airports with more than adequate demand

Take the case of Tagbilaran where the demand isn't really that high and considering that the island is close to Mactan/Cebu. An airport right there on Panglao will hasten the deterioration of the environment in that area despite otherwise claims and arguments of the proponents.

There are a lot of studies that provide valid and legitimate advice to the government.

I agree with your observations mate. But lets put the facts straight.
1. DOTC is not building airports. They are creating one. Putting up airports is a government necessity considering the archipelagic nature of the Philippines. Building however is a different matter because it entails land-side construction, meaning, establishment of terminal, and other support services. The Philippines have more than 200 airports. But less than 50 are considered capable of commercial traffic activity. The rest are simply for GA Traffic and emergency airlift operations for civil defense, mostly utilized as grazing lands for goats and cattles. Caticlan and Busuanga were ones grazing grounds until now. They were not airport then, only an airfield. That should have been the proper term but people simply confuses terms easily.

2. Bacolod and Iloilo airports are actually overdue structures which are supposed to be operational 15 years ago. So too is Cagayan de Oro and Zamboanga. Transfer is grounded on growth and safety. These are triggered by the volume of flights starting from at least 6 daily flights of B733 (at least it was made the basis of ADB study then because PAL operated those kind of aircraft) to justify expansion and future accommodation. After consideration of that factor it failed the test for growth. It has to move somewhere bigger and better with option for further growth.

At that time, Tagbilaran was not in the picture. So is Legaspi, Caticlan and Busuanga. Its not until later that traffic caught up with them, this time in droves, and so they have to expand to decongest a growing airport, with the exception of Caticlan and Busuanga, the rest simply can't because they were caught with residential houses flourishing like mushrooms at their borders. And removing them is quite difficult. NOt that those houses and tenants simply love the noise but because its expensive to buy all of them especially when the airport is engulfed in the urban area. Factor the cost of moving out or buying them all, it is simply more sensible to leave the place and build a new one.

3. Tagbilaran airport construction is not about extravagant expenditure amidst expanding poverty as what the newspaper writer say it was without even asking why it was to be built. Its actually all about safety concerns but more justified by growth and expansion. If you are an airline pilot driving an oversize A320 you will see what i meant. Its lucky for the politicians who are there in power when they are to be implemented to claim the credits for it, but actually it was a product of a long and arduous planning process by the government starting way back in 1992, and not just the whim of GMA who implements it now. Foreign donors like JICA and Korean Eximbank which financed these projects are not that stupid to financed airport construction when they are not feasible. ADB rejected 20 other airport project proposals from the government in the past. Political affinity is never in the minds of these funding agencies. You can be sure its all above boards.

I've never been to Bohol, but judging from the flight traffic they have within the past 2 years are staggering to ignore, which include numerous charter flights based on ATO data, I have no doubts about its capacity. Mactan grew and Shagrila put up its hotel there. In Indonesian island of Bali, tourism grew by leaps and bound after they decided to expand their airport. Same thing happen in Phuket. So the government has no reason to doubts its revenue value when its done. Plenty of tourist equals more revenue to pay for the airport, provide for local employment, and add more income to the state.

DOTC might not be telling the reason but to their defense its sensible.

Environmentally wise, you are correct. I hope government did consider these issues. However you put it, human improvements always damaged the environment. But Netherlands Antilles in the Caribbean survived the tourism onslaught. So the government can actually do something.

The only question left is how you minimized the impact viz a viz betterment of its people. Personally I will favor the latter and consider the former when the latter has been dealth with and not the other way around.

bartstrife99

May 25th, 2008, 04:23 PM

With the constraint in available space, Chua said Sangley Point could easily accommodate the planned maritime school only and the planned shipbuilding facility and industrial zone in another site.

Parang masama eto ah!! tranfer to another location! sana yung unang pla maganda!

At time, Chua said that COSCO was firming up its plan of splitting up its supposedly integrated international logistics project in the country in two separate areas —one in Subic for its logistics, shipbuilding and industrial zone components and another in Sangley Point in Cavite City for ship repair and maintenance facilities plus a maritime school.

garzland

May 26th, 2008, 11:09 AM

$5 Billion is such a huge investment. Yon nga lang it's not yet sure.

mygz14

May 27th, 2008, 03:04 PM

By Jerome Aning
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 20:15:00 05/27/2008

MANILA, Philippines -- A militant fisherfolk group Tuesday asked former senator and current Philippine Reclamation Authority chair Ramon Revilla Sr., and his sons, Bacoor Mayor Strike Revilla and Senator Ramon” Bong” Revilla Jr. to stop an P8-billion reclamation project along the coastal shores of Cavite province.

The Pambansang Lakas ng Kilusang Mamamalakaya ng Pilipinas (Pamalakaya) said the reclamation of about 7,500 hectares of Cavite's foreshore land off Bacoor, Kawi, Rosario, Binakayan, Noveleta and Cavite City would affect 26,000 fishing families.

"This project is nothing but a roaring cyclone that would practically destroy everything. The people's livelihood and the environment are being sacrificed at the altar of corporate takeover and interest. We strongly urge the Revilla clan to put an end to this reclamation frenzy and let the coastal families continue with their day-to-day life,” Pamalakaya chair Fernando Hicap told reporters.

According to Hicap, the connection of the Revillas was “well established” in the reclamation activities along Cavite’s coastal areas, adding that the reclamation was a “pet project” of the Revilla clan and approved by Malacañang.

“First the senior Revilla is the chair of PRA, the government agency in-charge of reclaiming and selling these reclaimed portions of Manila Bay to developers. Second, Strike Revilla is the mayor of Bacoor, where the project would start; and third, Senator Revilla is the chair of the Senate committee on public works and highways. This leads to a logical conclusion that the Revillas are solidly behind this project,” he said.

Pamalakaya said there were reports that the PRA, formerly the Public Estates Authority, was offering P20,000 per family whose tahungan (mussel growing) enterprises along Manila Bay were first cleared to give way to the reclamation project. Most of the fisherfolk along Cavite coastal towns are mussel growers.

"We would like to tell the Revillas that the compensation for destroyed tahungan is not really main concern of the fisherfolk. What they need is the rehabilitation and protection of their main source of livelihood main source of livelihood and assurance they would be no future reclamation activities along coastal areas” the group said.

Pamalakaya said the reclamation of 4,000 hectares of Bacoor's coastal areas is part of the government's plan to revive the Sangley Point as a major modern logistical hub with seaport and airport that would be provided by reclaimed areas from Bacoor to Cavite City.

The reclamation is also intended to extend the Cavite-Manila Coastal Road project from Bacoor to Kawit, Cavite. Pamalakaya said the seven-kilometer stretch of new road will also affect other nearby towns such as Naic and Tanza.

“[There is a] robbery in broad daylight with Malacañang, PRA and the powerful clans of Cavite engaged in conspiracy to deprive the fishers and urban poor of Bacoor their basic socio-economic and human rights in the name of corporate agenda and promising huge kickbacks," the group added.

SOURCE: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/regions/view/20080527-139177/Revillas-urged-to-stop-P8-B-reclamation-project-in-Cavite

bartstrife99

May 27th, 2008, 04:04 PM

Ph Man

May 27th, 2008, 06:18 PM

I'm kind of skeptical about Arroyo's plea for UPs it's operations in the Philippines. First of, there would always still be UPS and FedEx operations in the Philippines since there are still customers both companies are making profits in the Philippines, so for sure, there are still satellite stations in or within the Philippines unless both UPS and FedEx would be subcontracting local aircargo companies in the Philippines to process some of it's operations in the Philippines...

I agree. DHL did the same when they left PH and relocated their hub somewhere else (was that SG or HK?) Cost-efficiency was clearly not the main reason as these options are way more expensive than doing business here. It was Erap's era, so that probably explains why. DHL need not pull out all it's operations here in the country. It simply is a must for them to be existent in as many countries as possible. Only that the hub thing was a goner. These and more are some insider info I learned from a cab driver (former UPS employee) on my way from NAIA T2. :lol:

Same thing will happen to UPS, and probably others will soon follow. Remember FedEx who also moved their hub to China?

But I agree with Kratos' post also. Sometimes, cost-efficiency is not the only consideration. Being right there at the doorstep of your major client is a huge advantage. It has become a trend. But who knows, these companies might soon move their back office or shared services operations here in the country. The most recent company who did is Hershey's.

The government should focus more on that rather than asking them to sort things out. Decision has already been made for UPS. Let's focus now on where we really have competitive advantage.

Waldenstrom

May 27th, 2008, 06:25 PM

FerrariLover

May 27th, 2008, 07:46 PM

^^ They may be illegal settlers in the past but they're now considered fishing villages and most are incorporated to the barangays. These are the same people that pollutes the Cavite shores. I hope they'll just be absorbed as workers in the Sangley Point development projects and some get relocated to other parts of Cavite shores.

TAMA PO AT SUMASANG-AYON AKO SA SINABI DITO NA ANG MGA NAKATIRA PO KARAMIHAN SA MGA DALAMPASIGAN NA YAN MULA BACOOR, TANZA, AT
NAIC AY MGA SQUATTER AT YUN MGA DATI NA NANINIRAHAN SA LUGAR AY
ANG PINAGMUMULAN NG POLUSYON SA MANILA BAY. AKO MISMO ANG NAGPAPATUNAY DAHIL MALIMIT AKO SA LUGAR NA YAN. ANG MGA BABUYAN AT KAHIT MG DUMI NG TAO AY ITINATAPON NA LANG SA DAGAT AT MGA TAGAS O DUMI NG BABUYAN DIRETSO SA DAGAT, MGA PLASTIC AT MGA BASURA HALOS SA DAGAT NA NAITATAPON. ISAMA PA DOON YUNG MGA NAAANOD GALING MANILA BAY NA BASURA. SA TINGIN KO, KUNG MATUTULOY ANG RECLAMATION NA YAN, MALILINIS ANG COASTAL AREA SUBALIT DAPAT DING BIGYAN NG MATITIRHAN ANG MGA NANINIRAHAN NA MAAPEKTUHAN DYAN.

MGA KABABAYAN KO SA BACOOR, TANZA AT NAIC, MAKIISA NA TAYO SA
ISANG MALINIS NA PROYEKTO NA TAOY NA RIN ANG MAKIKINABANG.

SA MGA REVILLA'S, SANA NAMAN HUWAG PABAYAAN ANG MGA KA-PROBINSYA NYO DAHIL ITO AY PARA SA IKABUBUTI NG LAHAT.
...SALAMAT PO.....

kiretoce

May 27th, 2008, 10:28 PM

Gatchalian eyes new airline (http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/?page=business1_may26_2008)

Plastics king William Gatchalian wants to go back to the airline business two decades after he sold Air Philippines to taipan Lucio Tan, who also owns Philippine Airlines.

Industry sources said Gatchalian had tapped close associate Sergio Ortiz-Luis as chairman for his new airline venture, while another ally, Miguel Varela, will sit as board director.

Ortiz-Luis confirmed the report but said talks were preliminary.

Ortiz-Luis, president of the Philippine Exporters Confederation, is also a director of Gatchalian’s Waterfront Group.

Gatchalian plans to make a comeback in the airline business on a personal capacity.

Ricky Ricardo of the Waterfront Group’s corporate affairs office issued a disclaimer that the businessman’s hotel and leisure company had nothing to do with the plans.

“As far as I know, the idea of going back to the airline business was never brought up in the Waterfront Group level. The group remains focused on its core business on hotels, leisure and services. We have exited the airline business a long time ago, and it makes more sense for us to continue staying out of that business,” said Ricardo.

Gatchalian in earlier interviews signified a continued interest in the airline business after he sold his shares in Air Philippines, which now flies missionary routes, or those not serviced by its bigger affiliate, Philippine Airlines.

Industry sources said Gatchalian’s interest might have further been stirred by the entry of another Filipino-Chinese, banker and fruit juice maker Alfredo Yao, into the airline business via low-cost carrier Asian Spirit, the country’s fourth-largest airline.

Yao is the owner of Zest-O Corp. and RC Cola. He also owns Philippine Business Bank and sits as director of Export and Industry Bank.

Donald Dee, who has been designated as chairman of Asian Spirit, confirmed rumors that Yao was in China to meet with traders for the acquisition of seven brand-new aircraft for the airline’s refleeting.

Dee, Ortiz-Luis and Varela are closely affiliated with the Philippine Chamber of Commerce and Industries.

Dee said the first phase of the refleeting program involved the acquisition of two Airbus A-320 for regional and long-haul domestic flights and another five 60-seater Jetcraft ideal for short distance flights.

He said the refleeting would start next month up to early 2009. The first batch of new aircraft will be delivered from June to July this year.

Dee added Asian Spirit had a fleet of more than 10 aircraft, most of them specially designed for short take-off and landing.

bartstrife99

May 28th, 2008, 03:32 PM

mwg12a

May 28th, 2008, 04:52 PM

Gatchalian reminds me of Lechon when I was still in the Philippines. I wonder what would be the name of his new airline company? Lechon Express?? he he

kiretoce

May 28th, 2008, 04:58 PM

^^ Sounds more like a karinderia to me. :lol:

Sky Harbor

May 28th, 2008, 05:47 PM

I hope that whatever airline Gatchalian forms, it would be one that would elevate the service of low-cost carriers (à la Jetblue, for example) or a second full-service airline. Full-service airlines are in short supply in the Philippines these days, for we only have one :lol:.

Preferably too, the airline have a nice ring to its name and uses another airport as its hub (not MNL, CRK, CEB, DVO, MPH or ZAM), although the idea of a hub at another airport may be highly unlikely.

kiretoce

May 28th, 2008, 05:57 PM

^^ :lol: I gotta laugh at that one, MPH being a "hub."

BOB-bXu

May 28th, 2008, 06:11 PM

Butuan Bancasi Airport

Build UP! Build UP!! Butuan Airport on the Go!^^
Butuan's Bancasi Airport shall soon have an international standard runway and navigational facilities
runway rendering
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3228/2532377071_d54b8309fd_o.jpg

Wide and Tree covered airport parking space
http://k43.pbase.com/g3/78/737778/2/95782055.MQvfldGA.jpg

control tower and ground equipments
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2022/2532377151_e0b9428798_o.jpg

VOR (Very High Frequency Omni Range) Beacons and DMEs (Distance Measuring Equipment shall be upgraded under the Butuan Airport Development Package
Bancasi's northern approach runway section
http://i.pbase.com/g3/78/737778/2/95782057.596dMJKc.jpg

PAL Cargo, among Butuan's valuable cargo include prawns/sugpo and other high value aquamarine products
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3021/2533192894_1737e91070_o.jpg

auto pilots dis engaged, full reverse thrusters applied...a PAL A320 taxiing after arrival from MNL
"..Mga binibini,ginang at ginoo, kalalapag lang po natin sa paliparan ng Butuan...mangyari po lamang manatili sa inyong upuan.... Maligayang pagdating sa Butuan.."
http://k43.pbase.com/g3/78/737778/2/95864252.adGhXR6G.jpg

another big bird arrives, CEBU PAC A320
http://k53.pbase.com/g3/78/737778/2/95864260.y4MnVjtd.jpg

a dose of suntan for your pale skin Joe:)
http://k43.pbase.com/g3/78/737778/2/95962852.Vl1javXt.jpg

Love Birds (Butuan Tarmac can accomodate 4 A320s/A319 at present capacity)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2059/2532377341_72b2ebe6fe_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2407/2532377691_db1871c691_o.jpg

Boarding, single file mga inday
http://k53.pbase.com/g3/78/737778/2/95864264.HRsMZF20.jpg

"...Ground crew prepare for departure.."
http://k41.pbase.com/g3/78/737778/2/95864256.4IrNxWuy.jpg

smile naman dyan kapitan:)
http://k43.pbase.com/g3/78/737778/2/95864265.yNu9Wopv.jpg

"..PR 477 MNL...this is Bancasi flight control....take north approach...assigned FA (flight altitude) at 31,000 feet...cleared for take-off..."
PAL A320, at max speed and TOW (take-off weight) for MNL
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3236/2533193498_c38c54ecf2_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3185/2532377405_2d7e79fc98_o.jpg

Cebu Pacific A320 will also take Butuan tourism and economy to new soaring heights
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3154/2533193214_cd3f2dafa0_o.jpg

with improved airport facility in the offing and better airline connectivity....Butuan is definitely on the take off:)

mwg12a

May 28th, 2008, 06:22 PM

Very nice, too bad there is no picture of the terminal building...

Sky Harbor

May 29th, 2008, 02:07 AM

^^ :lol: I gotta laugh at that one, MPH being a "hub."

This is if I get it right:

-PAL: MNL, CEB
-Cebu Pacific: MNL, CEB, DVO, CRK (eventually)
-Air Philippines: MNL, CEB, SFS (original home base)
-Asian Spirit: MNL, CEB (focus city), ZAM (focus city)
-Seair: MNL, MPH, CEB (focus city), ZAM (focus city)

Seair serves so many destinations out of Malay (MNL, CRK, USU, CYU, PPS and CEB) that it technically qualifies as a hub. :D

Sky Harbor

May 29th, 2008, 02:22 AM

Butuan Bancasi Airport

Build UP! Build UP!! Butuan Airport on the Go!^^
Butuan's Bancasi Airport shall soon have an international standard runway and navigational facilities

auto pilots dis engaged, full reverse thrusters applied...a PAL A320 taxiing after arrival from MNL
"..Mga binibini,ginang at ginoo, kalalapag lang po natin sa paliparan ng Butuan...mangyari po lamang manatili sa inyong uouan.... Maligayang pagdating sa Butuan.."
http://k43.pbase.com/g3/78/737778/2/95864252.adGhXR6G.jpg

I'm surprised PAL actually translates the name of the airport in their arrival announcement. I've seen countless landings of PAL on YouTube and it surprises me that they can't even say "Paliparang Pandaigdig ng Ninoy Aquino" for NAIA or the same for other airports.

Taglish to me leaves a horrible impression on people when they have to listen to it on the plane. Foreign airlines do a much better job of sticking to pure Filipino than Philippine carriers, and Cebu Pacific does a better job at keeping its announcements as "Filipino" as possible than PAL!

Waldenstrom

May 29th, 2008, 05:07 AM

^^ anlayo masyado ng Tawi-Tawi. :D But I get your point. But also think that the fishes and seafoods that we are eating here around the Metro Manila area came from these fishermen. Without them, we won't be eating any of those. ;) Another option would be to teach them other sources of livelihood or teach them how to care of nature and make them guardians of the sea in other places.

Sou-jiro

May 29th, 2008, 06:12 AM

^^^love the pics...

does anyone know any good reliable travel agents in Manila with websites?
any suggestions thanks..i usually book by trips from Manila

Chrisvenz

May 29th, 2008, 09:36 AM

nice pictures... love those Philippine Eagles... lolx

WawaY[625]

May 29th, 2008, 12:26 PM

^^ that 5j looks smaller than the PAL plane..di kaya A319 yan?

Sinjin P.

May 29th, 2008, 12:39 PM

8 bagong international airports, bubuksan hanggang 2010 ayon sa DOTC.

habagatcentral1

May 29th, 2008, 02:36 PM

^^ Sabi sa 24 Oras. :D

kiretoce

May 29th, 2008, 02:49 PM

8 bagong international airports, bubuksan hanggang 2010 ayon sa DOTC.

Now will those be truly "international" with flights coming in from foreign places, or will it be of "international standards" only? :lol:

WawaY[625]

May 29th, 2008, 02:53 PM

dadami na ang airport na "XXXXXX airport of international standards" ang tawag :lol:

jogavilz

May 29th, 2008, 02:59 PM

;21213205']^^ that 5j looks smaller than the PAL plane..di kaya A319 yan?

special ang a319s ng CEB kasi 4 emergency exits near the wings, kaya parang a320 na rin ang appearance

bartstrife99

May 29th, 2008, 03:38 PM

Philippines to open 8 more airports by 2010
05/29/2008 | 03:25 PM

Email this | Email the Editor | Print | Digg this | Add to del.icio.us MANILA, Philippines- The government will be opening eight more international airports by 2010 in anticipation of the growing passenger traffic to the country, the Transportation Department said Thursday.

“By 2010 the Philippines will have [more] airports of international standards to ease traffic and reduce business cost," Transportation and Communications Secretary Leandro Mendoza said during the opening of the two-day Expo on International Transportation and Logistics held at the World Trade Center.

Mendoza said that this year alone three airports will be open soon and these are the controversial Ninoy Aquino International Airport Terminal 3, the Clark or Diosdado Macapagal International Airport, and the Buswanga airport scheduled to be operational in November.

For 2009, Mendoza said they are looking at opening the Davao-Iloilo terminal, Silay-Bacolod airport, the Laguindingan airport and the the Panglaw airports in Bohol.

Negotiations for the opening of the Zamboanga airport is also ongoing, Mendoza said.

“We expect traffic to double in particular the tourists arrivals" the Transport Secretary said, adding that this will help decongest the country's few airports as passenger traffic continues to grow.

Based on the records of the Civil Aeronautics Board, a total of 11.24 million passengers inbound and outbound were recorded last year, an increase of 11 percent from the 10.13 million posted in 2006.

For 2007, the country’s domestic load factor was placed at 78 percent up from 73 percent in 2006. - GMANews.TV

BOB-bXu

May 29th, 2008, 05:39 PM

considering our archipelagic geography and the trend for an open skies policy within the Asian / ASEAN region....8 is way too KULANG !!

WawaY[625]

May 29th, 2008, 08:11 PM

habagatcentral1

May 29th, 2008, 08:16 PM

For 2009, Mendoza said they are looking at opening the Davao-Iloilo terminal, Silay-Bacolod airport, the Laguindingan airport and the the Panglaw airports in Bohol.

Wow! You mean Iloilo and Davao are one place at the same time? :nuts: Asan na ba ang proofreader nila?

kiretoce

May 29th, 2008, 08:43 PM

^^ Oh, you didn't know? A mighty earthquake will happen in a few years time that will drive the the island of Mindanao northward and it will slam into the Visayan islands with such force and ferocity that it will meld all islands into one huge landmass. Thus making the Philippines a two-island archipelago, Luzon and Visdanao (or Minsayas?). :lol:

kyle@1008

May 29th, 2008, 08:44 PM

:lol: wow ang laki ng terminal na yan... :lol:

habagatcentral1

May 29th, 2008, 08:44 PM

^^ Ur reminding me of that tv commercial of Dev't Bank of the Phils (?) or Landbank where the Philippine islands were merged into one by big abaca ropes. :lol:

Sky Harbor

May 29th, 2008, 11:19 PM

Here's an addition to their proofreading: NAIA Terminal 3, DMIA Terminal 2 and the rehabilitated Francisco Reyes Airport in Busuanga are already airports! It's only the terminal that's new!

The DOTC/ATO/CAAP really needs a new system for determining airport classification. "International standards" I believe is just a classification unique to the Philippines! Iloilo and Bacolod are international (alternate international), Laguindingan is trunkline and Panglao is unknown!

Chrisvenz

May 30th, 2008, 02:00 AM

Chrisvenz

May 30th, 2008, 02:18 AM

I hope the PAL express bought this kind of aircraft..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Embraer_190.jpg

Sky Harbor

May 30th, 2008, 02:48 AM

^^ I doubt PAL would buy E190s for PAL Express (jets can't land on all airports in the Philippines). I'd like to see that though on mainline PAL. :D

Sinjin P.

May 30th, 2008, 04:04 AM

Q300
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5885/q3001mb3.jpg

Q400
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8987/sasq400ef2.jpg

The PAL Express fleet consists of Bombardier Q300 and Q400 turboprops.

kratos1211

May 30th, 2008, 05:12 AM

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3185/2532377405_2d7e79fc98_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3154/2533193214_cd3f2dafa0_o.jpg

originally posted by [B]Chrisvenz
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3247/2535633088_0d67bac41f_o.jpg

great photos :):):)

BOB-bXu

May 30th, 2008, 07:11 AM

kratos1211

May 30th, 2008, 07:23 AM

mwg12a

May 30th, 2008, 09:22 AM

^^^ those aircrafts sounds real funny when they land. You can tell it's a turboprops and I happen to hate being in those aircraft, but I guess if I have no choice but to get in it to fly somewhere like Boracay...

Chrisvenz

May 30th, 2008, 11:26 AM

this report released by DOTC ATO is too lousy:bash:

why would they "negotiate" Zamboanga's Airport to accept International flights when in fact....the airport is classified ALREADY as an international airport since it was built....

:lol:how can they negotiate to accept International Flights if Zamboanga Airport Terminal and its facilities can't accommodate or can't have international standard in terms of facilities? For Corn sake! Nag sasayang lang sila ng oras at pera... If the DOTC ATO want to have international flights from our international Airports, upgrade muna ng facilities into international standard...

RonnieR

May 30th, 2008, 11:53 AM

and what?...'Davao-Iloilo' ?......what's wrong with the authors geography?

divisoria geographics lang ata ang alam ng moron na author na eto ah...

and another, they have already opened Kalibo to accept international flights sometime a month ago...why was it not mentioned in the article..?

tsk tsk tsk....a geography booboos

:lol:

orangejuice

May 30th, 2008, 01:06 PM

Cebu pacific ATR or Pal Express Q400, Q300 plane:)

ATR72-500
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2101/2535057801_9a8c020829_o.jpg

Q400
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2095/2535849768_c2e722e6f2_o.jpg

Q300
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3051/2535031167_b7a4999611_o.jpg

TANONG KO LANG,SAFE BA ITONG MGA PLANES NA ITO. KASI DI BA UNG ATR ng CEBU PAC GOING TO BORACAY OPERATING NA? HATE KO KASI MGA MAUGANG PLANES, DI KO ALAM KUNG LAHAT NG SMALL PLANES MAALOG/MAUGA LIKE ASIAN SPIRIT AND SEAIR.

richard24

May 30th, 2008, 01:47 PM

diba hindi maganda ang record ng mga Q300/Q400?

kiretoce

May 30th, 2008, 06:28 PM

Implement open skies – transport officials (http://globalnation.inquirer.net/cebudailynews/enterprise/view/20080530-139747/Implement-open-skies--transport-officials)

The gradual implementation of the Open Skies policy may soon take place within the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) region as transportation officials recommended to ministers the signing of the agreement on air services liberalization.

On the final leg of the three-day 25th ASEAN Senior Transport Officials Meeting (STOM) in Cebu yesterday, the officials expressed full support on the signing of the ASEAN Multilateral Agreement on the Full Liberalization of Air Freight Services and Air Services.

Lawyer Doroteo A. Reyes II, undersecretary for civil aviation of the Department of Transportation and Communications (DOTC), said the multilateral agreement may be signed on November 2008 in Manila during the 14th ASEAN Transport Ministers' Meeting.

Reyes said this would be in time with the implementation of the Regional Integrated Air Transport Services or Open Skies agreement by December 2008.

DOTC Secretary Leandro Mendoza will represent the Philippines during the signing, he said.

The signing of the agreement is considered as a step closer to achieving a single aviation market for ASEAN member-countries, which is considered another important factor in establishing an ASEAN Economic Community in 2015.

The Open Skies policy allows aircraft from ASEAN member- countries to fly into each other's airspace without securing permission.

It also allows these aircrafts to land at any ASEAN airport for refueling and routine maintenance.

We will be talking on the rights among countries without necessarily coming up with some more agreements. Maybe towards 2015, we will have the full liberalization of our airport, Reyes said.

With the expected increase in passenger capacity, he said, expansion programs are now in the pipeline to accommodate the influx of tourists.

Reyes said the Diosdado Macapagal International Airport (DMIA), formerly the Clark Air Base, will be considered as the country's premier airport.

Right now, NAIA (Ninoy Aquino International Airport) is so congested. Clark (Air Base) can accommodate the biggest airplanes (which may come in with the approval of the agreement), he told reporters in an interview at the Shangri-La Mactan Island Resort and Spa.

He said DMIA has two runways, compared to the single runway of regular airports in the cities of Bacolod and Iloilo.

Asked if the agreement on the Open Skies policy is already final, Reyes said, I think it is almost finished, with just some refinements (to be made with) respect to reciprocal relations and grants of freedom-to-travel rights.

Reyes said they will be conducting dialogs with different airlines to discuss the policy.

Local carriers will always be given the (chance to air their) position(s). (We) will be listening to their positions but it will always be the interest of the government, the interest of entire Filipino people that will prevail, he said.

The three-day gathering of transport officials was expected to get the full support of ASEAN member-countries for transport integration policies, which are viewed as crucial contributors in the flow of trade and investments in the region.

In the Philippines, Reyes said, communication lines are open among different agencies such the departments of foreign affairs, tourism, trade and industry, and labor and employment.

We are all interested in this because civil aviation is not only about passengers and cargoes, it's also about trade, tourism and labor, he said.

Meanwhile, transport officials signed yesterday a memorandum of understanding (MOU) on aircraft accidents and investigations.

Reyes, who represented the Philippines in the signing, said the MOU is a good prelude to the approval of the Open Skies policy.

An accident is always a concern particularly (with) respect to tourism and other threats while on flight. This has to be signed into in preparation (for) the enlargement of the capacities of open skies so that travel could be more convenient, safe and secure, he said.

brownman

May 30th, 2008, 06:41 PM

Those planes reminds of the ones SeaAir and LIA uses. They look scary and unreliable. :ohno:

Sinjin P.

May 30th, 2008, 06:56 PM

Ph Man

May 30th, 2008, 08:51 PM

FerrariLover

May 30th, 2008, 10:11 PM

Sinj...i've tried A320s and B747s. and i can tell the difference when it comes to turbulence. so malamang mas matindi kapag turboprops. i think the law of inertia applies here.

Tukayo (bob-bxu), cool ka lang ha...;) Love your photos! San ka pala nakapwesto niyan?

Guys..Just for your information, Turbo-props have less turbulance than Jet planes because the propeller blades slices the air directly and its flying altitude are lower than jet engines.... Any questions????

Sou-jiro

May 31st, 2008, 01:32 AM

I know the 747s are stable flyers...when ever i fly on them & the A330s...i can already feel the difference...im always at ease wheneve its a 747 im on..it juts feels more stable in the air for me

ashton

May 31st, 2008, 02:32 AM

It's a shame that I have never tried 747. But I can tell a lil difference between 330 and 340. I like 340 better. :)

I know the 747s are stable flyers...when ever i fly on them & the A330s...i can already feel the difference...im always at ease wheneve its a 747 im on..it juts feels more stable in the air for me

habagatcentral1

May 31st, 2008, 02:34 AM

Haven't tried B747 yet.
Usually I ride B737-200, B737-300/400, A319, A320, Bac 1-11, A330, Fokker 50 and Shorts 360. Off all of those that I've ridden, its the Shorts that gives me the creeps.

ashton

May 31st, 2008, 02:40 AM

The smallest I've tried is an 18 seater seaplane flying over the Maldives... It wasn't scary. But my Bangkok-Luang Prabang flight in an ATR72 was the scariest by far. The pilot was such a maniac in a very good weather.

mwg12a

May 31st, 2008, 03:10 AM

kiretoce

May 31st, 2008, 03:21 AM

^^ It's a group of islands in the Indian Ocean just south of the Indian subcontinent.

terrapinoy

May 31st, 2008, 03:37 AM

Haven't tried B747 yet.
Usually I ride B737-200, B737-300/400, A319, A320, Bac 1-11, A330, Fokker 50 and Shorts 360. Off all of those that I've ridden, its the Shorts that gives me the creeps.

The Shorts 360 is not a pretty plane. I affectionately like to call it "The Flying Bus". This is the only plane that made me airsick and close to using the "bag". :lol:

http://www.abpic.co.uk/images/images/1033099M.jpg

kiretoce

May 31st, 2008, 03:42 AM

Come to think of it, I've never ridden a prop plane before. :lol: Are their cabins pressurized at all? :dunno:

I've been on an A319/A320, A330/A340, B737, B747, and B777. Not that much excited about the A380. But most of all, I want to experience the B787 Dreamliner! :okay:

You can tell that I'm a huge Boeing fan ;)

terrapinoy

May 31st, 2008, 03:54 AM

^^ The Shorts 360 is definitely not pressurized so you get to see the terrain like a Victory Liner. :lol:

I like the old school planes like the DC-3 and DC-10. The Lockheed Tristar is a favorite too.

mwg12a

May 31st, 2008, 03:59 AM

Turbo props fly in a much lower altitude, i think it's pressurized but someone can correct me on this one. Before our airport in this city expanded, we usually fly in and out of the city using turbo props, now it's mostly jets... All I can say is, yikessssssss!!!! so, I usually drive up to Tulsa, KC or STL which is a pain because they are all about the same distance and usually takes 3 hours driving time to get there just to get in your flight, atleast now, our airport was just currently elevated to National airport instead of regional because of the number of direct flights to major cities.

That's my dream also, to be on a 787 dream liner..

NightDog

May 31st, 2008, 04:22 AM

Most turboprops are pressurized. But Shorts 360 & Beechcraft King Air & Queen Air are not pressurized, so they fly in the altitudes where our body can handle the low pressure.

NightDog

May 31st, 2008, 04:27 AM

where is Maldives?

PAL sometimes use their 747-200 on Cebu - Manila routes, but it usually A330/340, i can't tell teh difference with the two, i've never been in an A320/319 yet, i'd say it wouldn't be too much of a difference with MD80/90s. Now smaller aircrafts? whether it maybe turbo or jets? You can always feel the turbulance since it's alot lighter that the widebodied aircrafts, atleast from my experience...

all commercial aircraft now are called turbos, except the light aircraft. they are categorized as turboprop, turbojets & turbofans. & actually jets are not much used these days. B737, B747, A320, A330, A330 are not called turbojets, they are called turbofans. Example of turbojet is the BAC-111. Modern aircraft is usually turbofan, it is the combination of turboprop & turbojet.

eonynx

May 31st, 2008, 04:30 AM

Cebu Pacific is world’s No. 1 in growth

No.5 in Asia, No. 23 in world for most number of passengers carried

Among the world’s 30 largest low-cost carriers in 2007, Cebu Pacific (CEB) ranked first in terms of passenger carriage growth, according to the Airline Business magazine’s May, 2008 issue.

CEB was also ranked No. 23 in the world and No. 5 in Asia in total passengers carried in 2007.

CEB carried a total of almost 5.5 million passengers in 2007, up 57.4% from 2006.

Lance Y. Gokongwei, CEB president and CEO, said, “This is a testament that our offering -- new aircraft and most affordable fares -- has caught on and we believe will continue to gain momentum.”

This year, CEB expects to fly 7 million passengers as it takes delivery of new planes and expands its service domestically and internationally.

CEB recently offered an unprecedented 500,000 seats for free with the passengers paying only for the surcharges and government tax.

Southwest Airlines (USA) topped the low-cost carrier category with 88.7 million passengers, followed by Ryanair (Ireland), easyJet (UK), Air Berlin (Germany) and AirTran Airways. CEB joins Indonesia’s Lion Air (1) and the now defunct Adam Air (4), Malaysia’s AirAsia (2), and Deccan (3) of India in Asia’s Top 5.

CEB has a fleet of ten A319s, eight A320s, and two ATR 72-500 aircraft. The airline flies to 14, soon to be 16 international destinations with the addition of Kaohsiung in June and Kota Kinabalu on July. It will also add Tuguegarao and Naga,in its domestic network in June and San Jose (Mindoro) in July.

http://thedailyguardian.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7868&Itemid=2

NightDog

May 31st, 2008, 04:42 AM

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3051/2535031167_b7a4999611_o.jpg

Turboprops are safe. This kind of aircraft is designed to fly in icy regions. If you noticed the leading edge of the wing, rudder & the elevator in the tail section, you can see they are all black which you cannot see in aircraft like A320 or B737. During ice formation in that locations, the pilot has the option to make that edges shrink because they are made of rubber, to remove the ice.

NightDog

May 31st, 2008, 04:51 AM

Guys..Just for your information, Turbo-props have less turbulance than Jet planes because the propeller blades slices the air directly and its flying altitude are lower than jet engines.... Any questions????

All aircraft engines have the same principle, whether it is turboprop, turbojet or turbofan. They sliced the air & throw it to the rear. That's why the aircraft moves forward. In our highschool Physics, there's a law which states In every action, there's always equal but opposite reaction. I think that is the Newton's 3rd Law of Motion. This is one of two laws that govern flight. So the air is being sucked from the front & thrown to the rear, the action is to the rear then the equal & opposite reaction is to make the aircraft move forward.

BOB-bXu

May 31st, 2008, 06:05 AM

Sinj...i've tried A320s and B747s. and i can tell the difference when it comes to turbulence. so malamang mas matindi kapag turboprops. i think the law of inertia applies here.

Tukayo (bob-bxu), cool ka lang ha...;) Love your photos! San ka pala nakapwesto niyan?

Francis, musta na...I just stole those pics from a Butuan airport gallery on the net...:)

if I was there at that take off moment at the runway....I am sure my fingers will really become fidgety:)

mwg12a

May 31st, 2008, 06:17 AM

all commercial aircraft now are called turbos, except the light aircraft. they are categorized as turboprop, turbojets & turbofans. & actually jets are not much used these days. B737, B747, A320, A330, A330 are not called turbojets, they are called turbofans. Example of turbojet is the BAC-111. Modern aircraft is usually turbofan, it is the combination of turboprop & turbojet.

I meant turbo propeller, but thanks for clarifying it for everybody....

Sou-jiro

May 31st, 2008, 06:29 AM

It's a shame that I have never tried 747. But I can tell a lil difference between 330 and 340. I like 340 better. :)

i on the other hand have not been on an A340...the thing is Here in Sydney if i fly PAL...they use A330...if i fly Cathay its still A330 ( i dont see the point of having 4 flight a day here on same type of plane)

if i fly Qantas i'll be a 767..which id rather not

i guess its just the way 747 is design stable & mighty not that A330 are bad..

ponso

May 31st, 2008, 07:19 AM

Totoo nga ba that the smaller a plan is, the more vulnerable it is to turbulence?

Hindi pa kasi nakasasakay ng smaller aircraft eh. It is kinda depressing to know that only smaller aircrafts can land on Batanes.

Hi Sinjin,

The smallest planes I flew in were (a) FlyBE's Q400 from Birmingham, England (BHX) to Jersey, Channel Islands (JER); (b) Northwest's 50-seater CRJ from Detroit (DTW) to South Bend, IN (SBN) and from SBN to Minneapolis-St. Paul (MSP).

Yes, they were all scary rides and both aircraft were indeed prone to turbulence. Imagine, just one small aisle and 4 abreast lang and they do feel like a tiny flying bus from the inside.

On the other hand, I thought through anecdotes, my mind was conditioned to expect a lot more turbulence from smaller planes; hence, I felt more movement on the smaller aircraft than I would in say, a 747, where a lot of people, myself included, can snooze after settling down on their seats, even before take off.

Also, I thought A330s have 2 engines while A340s have 4?

swahi

May 31st, 2008, 07:24 AM

I'd like to correct some of your comments. PAL uses the A330 on domestic routes. You don't see them using the A340 on domestic. They are basically the same length, with slightly different passenger capacity due to seat configurations. The seat configuration is due to the A330 set up for domestic, while the A340 for international, therefore, the A340 has more business class seats than the A330. The biggest difference between the two, the A330 is twin engine, while the A340 is 4 engines, that's why the A340 is used for international. Its been a while since I last saw PAL using their 747-200, I think they have stopped using them. They now use their 747-400 on domestic, while the same 747 is used for their international flights that leave at night out manila, and domestic during the day when the same planes arrive manila early morning.

Just arrived from Bacolod today, and was surprised that Ceb Pac was already using their ATR72 on their Cebu-Bacolod route. Same with Iloilo, and all areas on northern mindanao. They still use their airbus jets on the cebu-davao route, while PAL express uses their bombardiers on the cebu-gensan already. These planes supposedly gives better efficiency on a per passenger basis than their jet counterparts, but unfortunately, this means there is now no air cargo business potential. These planes allocate only 10 kgs allowance per passenger. Even on Ceb Pac, even their inflight magazine, no more! And another thing, on the Bacolod-Cebu route, they asked me to weigh myself, for weight and balance! They didnt do that when I took the same plane on the Cebu-Bacolod route.

And when the plane lands, cebu pac announces that the front passengers should stay seated while the rear passengers disembark (the ATR is rear door access), for proper weight and balance. Wow, so if the passengers do not disembark by rear rows first, the plane can tip over? Yikes!

habagatcentral1

May 31st, 2008, 07:49 AM

Just arrived from Bacolod today, and was surprised that Ceb Pac was already using their ATR72 on their Cebu-Bacolod route. Same with Iloilo, and all areas on northern mindanao. They still use their airbus jets on the cebu-davao route, while PAL express uses their bombardiers on the cebu-gensan already. These planes supposedly gives better efficiency on a per passenger basis than their jet counterparts, but unfortunately, this means there is now no air cargo business potential. These planes allocate only 10 kgs allowance per passenger. Even on Ceb Pac, even their inflight magazine, no more! And another thing, on the Bacolod-Cebu route, they asked me to weigh myself, for weight and balance! They didnt do that when I took the same plane on the Cebu-Bacolod route.

'd like to correct your comment. Iloilo-Cebu flights are still handled by Airbus A319s as of this moment for CebuPacific. They now fly every afternoon, every Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays (until June this year only). This would last until this late June, then its back to A319 services. Maybe because of the higher volume of passengers plying (since there is a connecting flight from Davao too, ILO-DVO operates 3x per week by A319). But maybe they would convert to ATRs for CebuPac service in the near future.

ILO-DVO direct uses A319s for their flights, 3x per week frequency.

On the other hand, AirPhils will still serve ILO-CEB until this June when PAL Express takes over and will be using Q400s for its 2x daily service.

habagatcentral1

May 31st, 2008, 07:53 AM

And when the plane lands, cebu pac announces that the front passengers should stay seated while the rear passengers disembark (the ATR is rear door access), for proper weight and balance. Wow, so if the passengers do not disembark by rear rows first, the plane can tip over? Yikes!

Just watched Air Crash Investigation from NGC. Passengers' weight matters with regard to balancing the weight. Crucial for take-offs and landings and flight proper.

The US Air Beech that crashed in Charlotte, NC was not just a result of faulty maintenance but because of the weight as well.

barrera_marquez

May 31st, 2008, 08:13 AM

Just watched Air Crash Investigation from NGC. Passengers' weight matters with regard to balancing the weight. Crucial for take-offs and landings and flight proper.

The US Air Beech that crashed in Charlotte, NC was not just a result of faulty maintenance but because of the weight as well.

Subukan mo yung episode na Bomb on Board ng Air Crash Investigation Kuya Habagat... Philippine Airlines yung eroplano roon e...

swahi

May 31st, 2008, 08:15 AM

habagatcentral1

May 31st, 2008, 08:16 AM

Subukan mo yung episode na Bomb on Board ng Air Crash Investigation Kuya Habagat... Philippine Airlines yung eroplano roon e...

Ito ba yun?

c0DArL_Er3g

zSmFHYkJko8

GBuoSSTkSds

7wQphGpVXDM

G1HWl_Mn1WM

habagatcentral1

May 31st, 2008, 08:18 AM

my mistake, iloilo is still using the airbus. My point with the weight issue is that cebu to bacolod they didnt take up the passenger's weight, and the flight was full, while on the return flight, they decided to weigh.

Basta yun yung isa sa mga rason siguro. Because they need to compute the total weight of the passengers and the total weight of the luggage and cargo. I think people here in aviation may answer that question for you more accurately. Nag-tan-aw ra man ko sa Air Crash Investigation bitaw, hehe!! Og mao na matud sa akong igsuon.

le Reine

May 31st, 2008, 08:38 AM

Ito ba yun?

c0DArL_Er3g

zSmFHYkJko8

GBuoSSTkSds

7wQphGpVXDM

G1HWl_Mn1WMang ganda ng episode na yan. as in naiyak ako kasi ang ganda ng impression sa atin at sa piloto ng PAL. :cheer:

barrera_marquez

May 31st, 2008, 11:07 AM

At least, we have shown to the world that we can do what others can and when others failed...

Rall

May 31st, 2008, 05:53 PM

NightDog

May 31st, 2008, 09:27 PM

my mistake, iloilo is still using the airbus. My point with the weight issue is that cebu to bacolod they didnt take up the passenger's weight, and the flight was full, while on the return flight, they decided to weigh.

If the flight is full then it's no problem. No need to compute for the weight & balance because the passenger load is already distributed properly. But if the flight is not full, then that's the time they are computing for the center of gravity. They have to distribute properly the load of the passengers. An improperly distributed load will cause erratic aircraft behaviour in flight.

People from the Load Control correct me if I am wrong. In an Airline, there's a section called Load Control. They are the one computing for this one & sending the info to the Check-in Area. That's why in the check-in, sometimes you cannot have a seat number of your personal choice due to this.

mwg12a

May 31st, 2008, 10:01 PM

@swahi. I've been in an A340 from Cebu to Manila before, I'm not sure if that's just one of the rare instance they would deploy that aircraft on a domestic route on rescue flight ( meaning, deployment of an aircraft in an event that there would be techincal or engine trouble on an aircraft that usually serve that same route regularly), but I remember the flight attendant mentioned that the same aircraft would have a continuing flight to LAX at the time so international passengers were instructed to proceed to a certain gate towards the international wing..

Jarvijarv

May 31st, 2008, 10:28 PM

...unfortunately, for the Japanese victim aboard this PAL flight, it has paved the way to more necessary but welcomed strict security checks. I just came back from an enjoyable vacation in the Philippines earlier this year, flying PAL...

i MUST say, after remembering this televised episode, i had NO problem with taking my shoes off, standing in the long line to have my hand carry thoroughly checked (at this time, having the Philippines aviation industry being downgraded by the FAA, may have contributed also), passing thru xray machines, being frisked and watching every single passenger go through this same procedure made me feel quite the safest person flying!!! :okay:

tigidig14

May 31st, 2008, 11:14 PM

pinanood ko rin yung episode
i forgot what video number i saw it but the pnas police uniform they were wearing seem to look like from girl and boy scout
tapos bat ba pinakawalan ng pnas official yung pakistani, e umamin na nga. i didnt get that part. so why, letting the guy out

Ph Man

May 31st, 2008, 11:17 PM

^^ :) glad to hear that.

based on experience, our NAIA airports are the strickest i've been into. sure they recently had this sort of KPI in clearing passengers from airport entrance to waiting area. they even have removed one blocking point (but only during peak hours i guess) to hasten the security procedures, but still the airport personnels' safety mindset gives you peace of mind.

By the way, as Rick (Rall) said, PR uses A340 on its MNL-DVO vv route, during midday. First flight (0430 am) is always A330, and last flight (recent addition) is A320.

A340 is also used for MNL-CEB routes (around 9 am from Manila) but only when the B747-400s are not available, possibly under maintenance.

barrera_marquez

June 1st, 2008, 12:22 AM

mwg12a

June 1st, 2008, 02:59 AM

Airport tax? like travel tax? they charge you with those in all domestic travels? Or is it the terminal fee of 200 or 500 pesos? As far as I know they usually charge international passengers with travel tax is you're a pinoy citizen.

And if you are refering to the tax on top of the ticket price, that is sooo wrong if you only pay 500.00 pesos for it, it should only be a percentage of that amount. Maybe that's the catch by the airline companies and should really be looked into...

Askal82

June 1st, 2008, 03:30 AM

ang ganda ng episode na yan. as in naiyak ako kasi ang ganda ng impression sa atin at sa piloto ng PAL. :cheer:

We should be proud of them. :banana::banana:

tigidig14

June 1st, 2008, 03:34 AM

Ang mahal ng airport taxes! Nagpa-book ako ng flight papuntang Iloilo City... mura ang pamasahe, P 500+ one way, pero yung taxes, grabe, P 2000 mahigit!!! Wala bang gagawin ang government para bumaba ang buwis sa mga paliparan natin? Nakakainis!!! :bash:

ako rin e, kala ko yung mga promo e kasama na tax pero talgang mahal, lalo na sa mga papuntang overseas

Askal82

June 1st, 2008, 03:51 AM

^^ I even wonder if travel taxes nga ba yan. P2000!?!?! Grabe naman yan. Hindi kaya pandaraya yan?

aUen

June 1st, 2008, 04:25 AM

They are basically the same length, with slightly different passenger capacity due to seat configurations. The seat configuration is due to the A330 set up for domestic, while the A340 for international, therefore, the A340 has more business class seats than the A330.

Actually, the A330 has more "business class seats" than the A340; the A330 has 42 business class seats while the A340 has 32. The A340 has less business class seats because PAL uses them on North American flights where they used to offer First Class. First Class is gone, so until the 747s and A340s are retrofitted, it is going to be part of the business class cabin, giving the A340s 12 more business class seats, for a total of 44.

I didn't know that Nat Geo made a documentary about the incident. I'm proud of PAL.

kratos1211

June 1st, 2008, 04:52 AM

Ang mahal ng airport taxes! Nagpa-book ako ng flight papuntang Iloilo City... mura ang pamasahe, P 500+ one way, pero yung taxes, grabe, P 2000 mahigit!!! Wala bang gagawin ang government para bumaba ang buwis sa mga paliparan natin? Nakakainis!!! :bash:

Its not all taxes.

No Free Lunch
When prices don't tell all

By Cielito Habito
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 19:08:00 05/18/2008

MANILA, Philippines--What if your friendly neighborhood panaderia advertises in posters all over town that it is selling regular-sized pan de sal for 50 centavos (or even zero centavos!) apiece? What if hundreds of townspeople troop to the store to snap up the bargain bread, only to be told that (1) there are only five dozen pieces available at that price per day, and (2) there is a P2 "flour surcharge" on top of the price, bringing the actual cost to the buyer, VAT included, to P2.80 (or P2.25 under the "free" deal) per pan de sal?

Would you be surprised if the crowd turns violent and attacks the bakery and its owners for the perceived deception?

Fly for free?
No one is attacking the domestic airline offices, thank God, yet this is exactly the situation when attractive ads banner P99 or even zero airline fares to various points around the country. Or when the airlines offer seemingly generous "buy one take one" deals. You troop to the airline ticketing office with your hard-earned money hoping to snap up a great bargain, find that you have to line up for hours to get your turn at the ticket counter, and then discover that the "great bargain" is no bargain after all once fuel surcharges, insurance, taxes and other fees are considered.

Thus, I couldn't help feeling somewhat heartbroken when I recently overheard a couple of housemaids excitedly discussing their plan to take a short vacation back home in Mindanao after seeing one of those P99 fare ads. I didn't have the heart to tell them that it would really take one to two months' wages to pay for those P99 trips back and forth.

Sorry folks, but like we economists always say, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Like Meralco
Don't get me wrong, I am not against these fuel surcharges, taxes and other fees per se, to the extent that they are legitimate costs incurred by the airline. What riles me is the way these charges are not included in the advertised prices, but only show up as a little "plus-plus" in the quoted fare, when they are part of the usual costs of providing the service in the first place. Not only are we consumers misled; we are also left guessing whether part of the amounts being additionally charged of us are indeed legitimate costs, or simply additions to the company bottom line--point one against the consumer. The current debates over Meralco pricing are no different. In our monthly electricity bills, most of us don't really understand exactly what we're paying for and whether we're being taken advantage of or not. Hence all this current brouhaha.

My other lament is on how this pricing practice opens the way for depriving consumers of certain rights that they normally should have. By calling them "promotional" fares, the airlines find an excuse to make the tickets nonrefundable, nonrebookable and nonreroutable. But how unusual are these fares really? It seems to me the bulk of their sales are made on the basis of these "promo" fares, while "full fare" is more the exception than the rule.

'Plus-plus'
What exactly goes into the "plus-plus"? I tried a comparative analysis online of lowest price quotes given by the local carriers for the same destination on the same dates and approximately same times (say, Caticlan/Boracay on June 25/27). A proper comparison beyond the all-in prices turns out to be impossible, as the airlines itemize the components differently, and give varying levels of access to the information on their booking websites--point two against the consumer.

You can count Seair out on transparency; you can't even get any price information at all before you enter your full data. Cebu Pacific offers an P888 fare to Caticlan and P288 back, plus P1,570 for "fuel and insurance" each way, plus P15 aviation security fee on the trip back, plus 12-percent VAT, adding up to P4,851 for the round trip. Asian Spirit offers P1,099 fare each way, plus P250 insurance and P1,020 surcharge each way, plus P15 aviation security fee on the trip back, for a total of P4,753 (VAT built in). Philippine Airlines offers a fare of P588 each way, plus a lump-sum P3,810 "taxes," for a total of P4,986. I guess we can assume the "taxes" here really include the fuel surcharge and insurance costs, but somehow, the impression is conveyed that this portion is beyond PAL's hands.

Questions
All these lead us to ask: Shouldn't our regulators (the Civil Aeronautics Board in this case) require all advertised fares to be all-inclusive and transparent, like what the US Department of Transportation and other governments now require of their airlines? Shouldn't the CAB fully disclose to the consuming public the exact nature and computation of fuel surcharges, insurance and security costs and other fees that they permit airlines to charge from us? And in the same way that "no return-no exchange" is now prohibited among common merchants, shouldn't "nonrefundable/nonrebookable/nonreroutable" clauses in airline fares be tightly restricted as well, if not outright prohibited? I always thought regulators exist to protect, first and foremost, the interests of the general public. Shouldn't the CAB be doing the same?

kratos1211

June 1st, 2008, 04:54 AM

End of an era as paper airline tickets dropped from June 1

Agence France-Presse
First Posted 09:08:00 05/30/2008

THE PAPER airline ticket comes to the end of its life on Sunday when 240 carriers belonging to the world association IATA switch to all electronic ticketing, much of it through Internet booking.

IATA members account for 94 percent of world airline traffic, and by the end of February, 94 percent of them had already abandoned the rectangle of stiff paper in favor of digital technology.

In Africa, 87 percent of IATA airlines had made the switch.

The last paper tickets will be sold on Saturday, and the International Air Transport Association estimates that its member airlines will save $3 billion (1.9 billion euros) a year, a much needed economy in the face of a huge rise in fuel costs.
"From June 1, no travel agent will be able to issue a paper ticket," an IATA spokesman said.

However, paper tickets issued before the deadline will still be valid for the travel dates indicated on them.

The issue and handling of a paper ticket costs an airline $10: its electronic replacement $1 on average.

IATA also calculates that the end of the paper ticket will save 50,000 trees per year.

swahi

June 1st, 2008, 07:23 AM

the 340 on domestic routes is not regularly utilized. Though on PAL's sked, it is mentioned on one of the Davao flights, but it is doubled, stated as 330/343, which means the 340 is not standard for that flight. When you see it for Cebu, you are right, it is normally as a replacement, and not a regular scheduled aircraft for that flight.

The 340's business class has much better leg room than the 330's business class. Really designed for the international passenger. PAL's website states the 340 has 44 biz class seats, while the 330 has 42. I don't know if the pics are drawn to scale, but from the pics itself, the 340's biz class setup is more spacious. Nakasakay na ako sa 340 biz class and 330 biz class, iba talaga. (generally, upgraded lang ako, due to overbooked economy class).

tigidig14

June 1st, 2008, 07:33 AM

^^ I even wonder if travel taxes nga ba yan. P2000!?!?! Grabe naman yan. Hindi kaya pandaraya yan?

meron pang gas tax yata na babayaran mo, w/c was not included
i noticed that last time i was there

barrera_marquez

June 1st, 2008, 08:51 AM

meron pang gas tax yata na babayaran mo, w/c was not included
i noticed that last time i was there

so ibig mong sabihin kuya tigs may babayaran pa roon aside from the total price?

barrera_marquez

June 1st, 2008, 08:55 AM

Ganito, nagpa-book na lang ako ng flight sa Cebu Pacific at habang nagpapa-book ako, kinuhaan ko ng kinuhaan ang pages nito at kitang-kita from P 500+ naging P 4000+ at nagtataka ako talaga bakit ang taas ng taxes?

Partida, mukha yatang may promo ang Cebu Pacific niyan noong magpa-book ako...

Initial price:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3245/2540948450_a8aea8fd3e_b.jpg

Final price:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3226/2540133121_4e9b3cdf27_o.png

No choice ako, umo-o na lang ako kahit mababasag ang bulsa ko, sa June 26 ang alis ko papuntang Iloilo City guys... hehehe! :lol:

P.S.: Hindi ko name iyan, yung totoong name ko ang ginamit ko sa pagbu-book... kaya gumamit ako ng ibang name para maipagtanggol ang identity ko...

bartstrife99

June 1st, 2008, 10:41 AM

le Reine

June 1st, 2008, 11:25 AM

^^ganyan din babayaran ko papuntang cebu hahaha... :lol:

kratos1211

June 1st, 2008, 04:15 PM

romantic_guy08

June 1st, 2008, 04:23 PM

I'd like to correct some of your comments. PAL uses the A330 on domestic routes. You don't see them using the A340 on domestic. They are basically the same length, with slightly different passenger capacity due to seat configurations. The seat configuration is due to the A330 set up for domestic, while the A340 for international, therefore, the A340 has more business class seats than the A330. The biggest difference between the two, the A330 is twin engine, while the A340 is 4 engines, that's why the A340 is used for international. Its been a while since I last saw PAL using their 747-200, I think they have stopped using them. They now use their 747-400 on domestic, while the same 747 is used for their international flights that leave at night out manila, and domestic during the day when the same planes arrive manila early morning.

On my way to Davao last Thursday, PR used the A340 for their MNL-CEB v.v. 7:00 A.M. flight I think. Passing through PR's ticket office at MCIA I saw their aircraft deployment schedule and they do use their A340's for domestic routes in certain days and as alternate aircraft.

They also mostly use their A340's for the MNL-GenSan route primarily for the cargo.

Hmmm, with the downgrading of some of 2P's routes in favor of PALEx, can we expect them to be more on time now and even be even ahead of schedule? When I flew to Davao from Cebu last Thursday, we were ahead of schedule by 15 mins, same as my return flight this noon, we also departed ahead of schedule.

kiretoce

June 1st, 2008, 05:35 PM

Usually, if the airfare is discounted, or even if it's free, you still have to pay the taxes on it. And they are almost always the same amount, taxes don't increase or decrease without government approval. So, your ticket may be dirt cheap but then when you add the taxes, of course it'll increase exponentially. You have to remember that the taxes you pay goes to the government, not the carrier.

mwg12a

June 1st, 2008, 09:49 PM

Why can't the airline include all the charges (taxes, fuel surcharge fees, airport security fees, insurance and airport terminal fees, travel taxes) to the airfare? Wouldn't it be more convenience for us traveler? No need to fall in line in the airport to pay for travel taxes, terminal fees.

Travel tax P 1620.00, Terminal fee P550.00, P200.00 Airport Security Fees for international.
Domestic terminal fee from Manila is 200PHP. To Manila it ranges from PHP30 to 150 depending which airport you are.

Breakdown of taxes and fees.

I can see fuel surcharges, tax on your airfare and insurance to be counted on your payment with the airline companies. If you add travel taxes, airport security and terminal fee, it would be very tough and would cause bigger paper work for the airline companies, besides the fact that the funds that should be aloted for the terminal operations and the tax that needs to go to the government might not reached to its respective department. And if the airline company belongs to an international carrier, it would probably against their policy to collect travel taxes for the Philippine government... that's just my opinion...

barrera_marquez

June 1st, 2008, 11:58 PM

Kuya hindi na po siguro bale ang mahal basta po on-time ang biyahe... e madalas po hindi e, may mga delays pa po na kung minsan e umaabot po ng three hours... :bash:

kalbongdad

June 2nd, 2008, 04:23 AM

Kuya hindi na po siguro bale ang mahal basta po on-time ang biyahe... e madalas po hindi e, may mga delays pa po na kung minsan e umaabot po ng three hours... :bash:

yup...that is right....its a big inconvenience.... i had an experience just recently....sa naga last may 5 ata yun...my air philippines flt....naga to manila...delayed....yung 8am...naging 11 am.....pinag jollibee naman kami dahil....nag chant na ang mga passenges....burger...burger...burger....still another experience....same airline....just last may 23 ....yung tuguegarao flt ko para manila......cancelled.....ano na ang nangyayari sa airline na ito....nde man lang kami ni book sa hotel... it was a friday...naka check out na rin kami sa hotel.....we have no choice but to take a bus back to manila....a gruelling...12hrs...ride.......dahil...yung next flt....monday pa.....am just sharing this to all...so that you may be warned......be prepared and always provide for unexpected incidents...like these...

habagatcentral1

June 2nd, 2008, 04:25 AM

Nawala na ang kanilang 95% On Time nila noon. :(

kalbongdad

June 2nd, 2008, 04:35 AM

Nawala na ang kanilang 95% On Time nila noon. :(

as far as i know....if they have an SLA of 95%....palagay ko bagsak na sila don.....

anyway....ganda naman ang sites sa tugue....yung callao caves (yung patalastas ng smart ni regine velasquez) yun yon... its beautiful...pati na ang nearby cagayan river....yung...our lady of piat church and museum nila....is a must see.....kahit papano....sulit ang pagpunta ko sa tugue....kung nde lang palpak ang air philippines....ganda sana ng experience.....

mwg12a

June 2nd, 2008, 05:04 AM

@barrera. Pangit nga yan sa business nila sa 5J. Malaki pa naman ang expectation ko sa kanila na maging halimbawa sa pag unlad ng mga business para kahit gobierno ay matuto dito.

Natatawa naman ako dito kay Kuya Kalbongdad, parang telegram lagi mag type ng messge niya, maraming dot dot dot dot ha ha, pakiramdam ko tuloy kung magsalita siya parang yuong dating si Ernie barong .... HA HA HA

Ph Man

June 2nd, 2008, 05:39 AM

hehe...very explicit din ang nick ni kalbongdad. at buti naman naappreciate niyo ang Cagayan. I am from Isabela, neighbor to Cagayan, but I never had visited Callao Caves. Buti ngayon may 5J flight na to Tuguegarrao. May competition na! And imagine, you can fly to Tugue via 5J at almost Php4K roundtrip. Compared with the Php3K one way for Air Phils.

By the way, nag seat sale din ang PAL - buy one take two ata, I think that was last April. It was very very misleading. Only the fare is free. Siyempre the taxes and fuel surcharges are still there - which make up the majority of the total fare.

Ang 5J naman, ok na rin ang fare nila. Kasi nga LCC, and we get the chance to travel overseas at very minimal fare. You can go to Vietnam with less than Php6K, roundtrip. Of course we still need to pay the travel tax at the airport.

One time, bumili ako ng intl flight ticket sa PAL office, they included the travel tax in it. I dunno if that's normally done, but for tickets booked online, it's exclusive.

For me the downsides of buying promo tickets for either PAL or 5J are:
- promo tickets have lots of restrictions - nonrebookable (not all), unrefundable, etc.
- sale period is usually very short, and travel time is way way ahead in the future, so most people try to decide on a vacation 2 months from now. of course there will be contingencies in between, then you will be forced to make the rebookings in the end. no joke pa naman ang rebooking fee pag international flight. and PAL agents' quotations on the fees are varying. somebody will say you have to pay 2K, another would tell you it's free because it's stipulated in your purchased ticket. di ko maintindihan.

for local PAL flights, rebooking fee is at Php300 something.

Ph Man

June 2nd, 2008, 05:45 AM

as far as i know....if they have an SLA of 95%....palagay ko bagsak na sila don.....

anyway....ganda naman ang sites sa tugue....yung callao caves (yung patalastas ng smart ni regine velasquez) yun yon... its beautiful...pati na ang nearby cagayan river....yung...our lady of piat church and museum nila....is a must see.....kahit papano....sulit ang pagpunta ko sa tugue....kung nde lang palpak ang air philippines....ganda sana ng experience.....

you mean KPI. i guess that applies more on the arrival. you will be pleasantly surprised that you still arrive as indicated in your ticket. this is PAL's trick to achieving 95% on time KPI. quoted travel time for their flights are almost always more than the actual travel time. the gate opens on time, yes you board on time, but for bigger aircrafts, it usually takes time before the procedures are completed. but even if you take-off 45 mins later, you still arrive on time. the secret? their quoted travel time is way more than the actual travel time. i don't know if that's done intentionally by PAL. sana naman hindi.

Sou-jiro

June 2nd, 2008, 06:31 AM

The seat configuration is due to the A330 set up for domestic, while the A340 for international, therefore, the A340 has more business class seats than the A330. The biggest !

I believe the A330 has more business class than A340...A340 has first class..
A330 are only Business & economy...o does it mean that A330 just has more economy??

747-200 has long gone on PALS fleet...its been a atleast 5 yrs i think

redboy

June 2nd, 2008, 06:44 AM

Sky Harbor

June 2nd, 2008, 07:53 AM

Hi everyone, been blogging about Aviation in the Philippines for a short time, I am interesting knowing more about historic air bases either abandonded or still in use around the Philippines. already have Clark, Dumaguete covered. If you have any names history ofr even photos. Love to see them.

Aviation Philippines is an effort to explore all aspects of flying, civil aviation, aviation history, and more in the Philippines. There are many ways to enjoy flying in the Philippines. Civil aviation activities include Ultra light clubs, FBO's with flight schools, and para sailing. There are model aviation organizations, WW II relics, and news stories relevent to both civil aviation and military aviation topics. The mix will be eclectic and the information hopfully entertaining.

Try this category: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Military_facilities_of_the_Philippines. Some of the bases there are covered, like Basa AB, Mactan AB and Nichols Field/Villamor AB. There are also others which are not exactly air bases, like Sangley Point and Subic.

There are also other bases, like Edwards AB, which are also existing civil airports (Edwards AB is Zamboanga International Airport, Mactan AB is Mactan-Cebu International Airport, etc.)

bustero

June 2nd, 2008, 08:47 AM

don't forget Fernando in Lipa

re tix prices, i agree with that article that the airlines should stop advertising free and low fares then whack everyone with high "taxes" and "surcharges", it's now so obvious that this is more a marketing gimmick at this stage

also I understand now the impetus behind making DMIA the premier gateway, this is to shield the local airlines from open skies at NAIA! Since ASEAN open skies is only with the designated international gateway of the country, all the other airlines can fly freely to clark and not Manila. Very tricky, talo na naman ang Pilipino.

mwg12a

June 2nd, 2008, 08:50 AM

That make sense, I can see that happening really....

IsaganiZenze

June 2nd, 2008, 09:36 AM

i forgot to post this earlier, taken by storm crypt (http://www.flickr.com/photos/storm-crypt/) - may 15,2008

PAL Express (or Air Philippines)

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a91/EnozAnewor/stormcryptAPhils.jpg

Sky Harbor

June 2nd, 2008, 11:00 AM

^^ That's an Air Philippines Q300. And remember, PAL Express and Air Philippines' Leisure Holiday brand are distinct. :D

barrera_marquez

June 2nd, 2008, 11:14 AM

Kuya hindi na po siguro bale ang mahal basta po on-time ang biyahe... e madalas po hindi e, may mga delays pa po na kung minsan e umaabot po ng three hours... :bash:

Hahaha! That three hours is enough for travel from Manila-Cabanatuan... mas mabuti pa nga yung bus ng Baliwag na nasakyan ko dati, na-delay lang kami ng 30 minutes, ito 3 hours!!! Pwede nang one-way Manila-Cabanatuan or apat na balikan sa Manila-San Fernando...

IsaganiZenze

June 2nd, 2008, 11:21 AM

^^ That's an Air Philippines Q300. And remember, PAL Express and Air Philippines' Leisure Holiday brand are distinct. :D

i see...thanks for clarifying....i was confused about this....now it's all cleared up....

question ulit (lots of them): so how many orders of q300/q400 did Air Phils have? and for Pal Express?

or are they atr's instead of the Q's?

did the plane orders of Air Phils transfer to orders for Pal express? just curious

kiretoce

June 2nd, 2008, 06:29 PM

Philippines Airlines to restart GCC flights (http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?StoryId=1093198897) :banana:

Philippines Airlines (PAL), which suspended its flights to the region in 2006, is keen to restart operations to Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and other GCC destinations in two years' time once it gets delivery of 21 new aircraft, the President and COO of Philippines Airlines Jamie J. Bautisa, revealed.

Jamie J. Bautista, who was in Bahrain for a brief stay accompanied by Rolando C Estabillo Vice President Corporate Communications and Roberto C.O. Lim Vice President Legal Affairs and Corporate Compliance Officer, said: "PAL as fleet expansion plan will add almost 21 additional aircraft by 2012 as part of an initiative aimed at expanding the wings of the airline to many new destinations like GCC or MENA."

The airline is expected to get 21 new aircraft taking the total to 60 by 2012.
"We are keen to operate on GCC destinations as that will be the greatest thing by serving the Philippines expatriate community."
He said that PAL would continue take all precautionary measures to mitigate the impact of the spiraling fuel prices.

"We will continue our focus on the implementation of a successful revenue
management programme as well cost saving programme to maintain our profitability of the airline."

"Philippines Airlines took a ground-breaking step by launching a sub-brand for the first time in its history: PAL Express. The new brand flies a fleet of Bombardier Q400 and Q300 turbo-props to mostly island destinations and secondary routes throughout the Philippines. The budget air carrier operates out of hubs in Cebu and Manila, serving popular leisure destinations such as Boracay, Busuanga, Surigao and Vigan at low fares Philippine Airlines has a 67-year history steeped in tradition and modernity. As the national carrier of the Philippines, PAL exudes the best of Filipino hospitality: warm smiles, attentive service and sincere friendship greet the customer wherever he is, in the air or on the ground."

"From its modern hubs at the Centennial Terminal 2 of Ninoy Aquino International Airport in Manila and Mactan International Airport in Cebu, PAL serves 45 online destinations: 20 domestic and 25 international points in 13 countries and territories. The air carrier also has code-share arrangements with Air Philippines, Air Macau, Cathay Pacific Airways, Emirates, Etihad Airways, Gulf Air, Malaysia Airlines, Qatar Airways and Royal Brunei Airlines that allow it to link Manila and Cebu with 16 domestic and 11 international points."

"With a fleet of 35 jet aircraft - five Boeing 747-400s, four Airbus A340-300s, eight Airbus A330-300s, 14 Airbus A320s and four Airbus A319s and four Bombardier Q300/Q400 turbo-propeller aircraft (out of nine to be acquired), PAL operates one of the youngest and best-maintained fleets in the region.

Today, PAL's service has been enhanced to an even higher level. Passengers can look forward to reliable schedule punctuality, thoughtful inflight service, award-winning cuisine, and one of the industry's most generous frequent-flyer programmes in Mabuhay Miles."

He added: "On its 67th year, Philippine Airlines can look back at a proud legacy of service to the nation and beyond to a future where it will soar once more among the leading airlines of Asia."

===========================================================================

PAL plans Gulf flights (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=219122&Sn=BNEW&IssueID=31074) :banana:

Philippine Airlines (PAL) is planning to re-introduce flights to Bahrain and other Gulf countries within the next two years, the airline's president and chief operating officer Jaime Bautista told the GDN. He revealed details of the plan two years after the airline discontinued its flights to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and 14 years after the Bahrain route was scrapped.

The expansion, which will include flights to other Middle East countries outside the GCC, will coincide with a major expansion in the next two years - with PAL planning to buy an additional 30 planes.

Mr Bautista said "operational difficulties" and "over capacity" had led to PAL slowly cancelling operations to several Arab countries, including Bahrain, in the last 10 to 12 years.

"We are now conducting talks with our partners in the region to determine how best to re-start operations and how many flights to have," he said.

"We are also talking with Civil Aviation Affairs officials in Bahrain and other parts of the region.

"We stopped Bahrain operations in 1994, Abu Dhabi a few years later and finally Riyadh was scrapped two years ago.

"We were always keen to serve the Filipino community in Bahrain and the other countries in the region, but had to withdraw due to operational reasons.

"Now, since we are expanding all over the world and getting a lot of new aircraft, an expansion into the region is very much on the cards."

Mr Bautista was in Bahrain en route to Istanbul, Turkey, to attend a meeting of the International Air Transport Association (IATA).

He said PAL already had several code-sharing agreements with carriers in the region, operating around 60 such flights to several Middle Eastern destinations.

However, it is now seeking to expand its own fleet from 39 aircraft to 59 by the end of 2010 - almost doubling the size of the airline.

"PAL still has and will continue to have one of the youngest fleets in the region," he added.

PAL has recently been named "Airline Turnaround of the Year 2007" by the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation (Capa), a Sydney-based aviation think-tank, for successfully graduating from rehabilitation and returning to sustained profitability.

"Few airlines have reformed themselves so comprehensively as PAL," added Mr Bautista.

"An unflinching cost focus, network focus and superb productivity enhancement have provided us the platform to profitably expand and establish a strong position in the region's aviation industry."

Chrisvenz

June 2nd, 2008, 08:07 PM

Congrats PAL! hehehe

Ph Man

June 2nd, 2008, 10:13 PM

good news! and since these are long-haul flights (are they?) PAL should get the long bodied ones - sana B777, A340 or B787! :banana:

Mr. Bautista, though not quoted on this, should clarify what is the correct figure - will it be 21 or 30 additional aircrafts. That's a huge difference imo.

kiretoce

June 3rd, 2008, 12:25 AM

^^ I believe flights lasting six hours or more are categorized as long-haul, but don't quote me on that, still not completely sure.

Sky Harbor

June 3rd, 2008, 12:30 AM

i see...thanks for clarifying....i was confused about this....now it's all cleared up....

question ulit (lots of them): so how many orders of q300/q400 did Air Phils have? and for Pal Express?

or are they atr's instead of the Q's?

did the plane orders of Air Phils transfer to orders for Pal express? just curious

Air Philippines bought three Q300s. PAL bought three Q300s and six Q400s for PAL Express. Supposedly, two of the 2P Q300s would be transferred to PAL, but I do not know if this happened.

Also, Cebu Pacific operates the ATR 72, not PR/2P.

diz

June 3rd, 2008, 01:09 AM

I admire PAL. I mean, back in 1998, they announced that they were out of business. Then they came back...

Last year, they were out of recievership and now, their cabins are being upgraded to match with international carriers like Cathay Pac.. Very awesome job they've done and are great role models.

arianespace

June 3rd, 2008, 01:38 AM

The 3 Q300's are still owned by Air Philippines. It was leased to PAL Express.
The 6 Q400's are owned by a European Lessor and leased to Philippine Airlines.

Don't count too much on PAL mideast expansion. Except the routes to Saudi Arabia, the rest are still Code-Share! Press release could be so wrong! The purpose only of which is to please Philippine legislators. :ohno:

By 2009, PAL B77W will be going back to Riyadh and Jeddah.:)

Sky Harbor

June 3rd, 2008, 01:58 AM

^^ If they were leased, why did PAL declare that they bought said aircraft? That's kinda odd for an airline like PAL.

a s i a n a

June 3rd, 2008, 03:12 AM

Hey, what do you mean by GCC? Gulf something something?

kiretoce

June 3rd, 2008, 03:16 AM

^^ Gulf Cooperation Council (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperation_Council_for_the_Arab_States_of_the_Gulf). Or, also known in it's formal form as the Cooperation Council of the Arab States fo the Gulf

arianespace

June 3rd, 2008, 03:39 AM

^^ If they were leased, why did PAL declare that they bought said aircraft? That's kinda odd for an airline like PAL.

The aviation industry call it operating lease vis-a-vis finance lease. For example, RP-C8600 to RP-C8603, these are airbus 319 aircraft registered in PAL's name. But if you look at PAL books,(a financial accounting term), these are leased aircraft from GECAS. PAL leased these planes from GECAS like you are renting a house.

Finance lease is different. Have you notice why PAL 744 and 343/333 are previously registered in the US and FR and not RP? Because the planes are mortgaged in US and FR Eximbanks. Its like owning a house and paying a monthly amortization to the house developer which they usually sell to the bank that's why you pay to the bank because they pay for your house. Simply put it, you occupy the house but you don't own it until you fully paid the purchase price. That is where the house developer give you the title. Aircraft ownership operates the same way.

arianespace

June 3rd, 2008, 03:48 AM

Similarly, ATR of Cebu Pacific is not owned by it but by Boracay Leasing. Cebu Pacific operates the aircraft through operating lease. Same thing with their 6 new A320, all are owned by a european lessor, CIT leasing . All the 319 are owned by the company. But all of them are mortgaged to a philippine bank which underwrite its acquisition:)

[dx]

June 3rd, 2008, 04:47 AM

Legazpi Domestic Airport
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1269/1339596024_242a7178cd_b.jpg
by paPA.JACK (http://flickr.com/photos/papajack/)

n773ph

June 3rd, 2008, 05:28 AM

Transport Canada/ Transports Canada

News Release
No. H 137/08
For release - May 30, 2008

CANADA'S GOVERNMENT ANNOUNCES NEW AIR AGREEMENT WITH THE REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES
OTTAWA — The Honourable Helena Guergis, Secretary of State (Foreign Affairs and International Trade) (Sport), today announced the successful conclusion of a new air transport agreement with the Philippines to increase trade and tourism. She made the announcement on behalf of the Honourable David Emerson, Minister of International Trade and Minister responsible for the Pacific Gateway and Vancouver-Whistler Olympics, and the Honourable Lawrence Cannon, Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

Secretary of State Guergis met with Senior Undersecretary Thomas Aquino of the Department of Trade and Industry, Government of the Philippines, on the margins of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) Ministers Responsible for Trade (MRT) meeting in Arequipa, Peru, to make the announcement.

"I am very pleased to announce a new and expanded air transport agreement between Canada and the Philippines, which will enhance relations between our two countries," said Secretary of State Guergis. "Expanded air services are an important contributor to trade in goods and services, providing increased capacity and access to more choices for both passenger and cargo traffic."

"The new Canada-Philippines air transport agreement should facilitate further growth in trade, investment and tourism," said Minister Cannon. "The new provisions are a reflection of Canada's ongoing commitment to creating a greater range of travel options for passengers, shippers, air carriers and airports."

The new provisions provide greater market access options for airlines from both countries for passenger-cargo combination services. In addition, both governments reached agreement on a new, flexible regime for the operation of air-cargo services, which will also contribute to the success of Canada's Asia-Pacific Gateway and Corridor Initiative.

In 2007, two-way trade between Canada and the Philippines amounted to $1.2 billion.

The new agreement marks another step forward in the government's move to liberalize Canada's air transport agreements under Canada's Blue Sky policy. Both countries have agreed to explore further areas for possible liberalization. Air carriers are reviewing the results of these negotiations to determine what new air services initiatives may be introduced.

- 30 -

Contacts:

Lynn Meahan
Press Secretary
Office of the Minister of
International Trade
and Minister for the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver-Whistler Olympics, Ottawa
613-992-7332
Trade Media Relations Office
Foreign Affairs International Trade Canada
613-996-2000

Karine White
Press Secretary
Office of the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, Ottawa
613-991-0700
Media Relations
Transport Canada, Ottawa
613-993-0055

Transport Canada is online at www.tc.gc.ca. Subscribe to news releases and speeches at www.tc.gc.ca/e-news and keep up-to-date on the latest from Transport Canada.

This news release may be made available in alternative formats for persons with visual disabilities.
-----------------------------------

I'm crossing my fingers regarding the details of the agreement which has not yet been made public. I hope it adds more frequencies that will allow PAL to fly to eastern Canada. This way, PAL can use their new 77W's there until the FAA upgrades the Philippines to Category. Hindi madedelay ung delivery ng eroplano plus makakatulong pa sa mga Pinoy na nasa eastern Canada.

bustero

June 3rd, 2008, 05:33 AM

bartstrife99

June 3rd, 2008, 02:32 PM

Gov't to initially use NAIA-3 for domestic flights
06/03/2008 | 04:02 PM

Email this | Email the Editor | Print | Digg this | Add to del.icio.us MANILA, Philippines- The government is planning to use the controversial Terminal 3 of the Ninoy Aquino International Airport as a port for domestic flights before it gradually shifts to hosting international flights, a top official of the Manila International Airport Authority said.

In a speech before the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce, Alfonso Cusi, MIAA general manager, said the facility will be opened at the “soonest possible time" but through a "partial or phased opening starting with domestic flight operations."

“We will address all the basic, pressing and most glaring life safety concerns such as the collapsed ceiling through a more comprehensive repair and strengthening program," said Cusi.

“[And then] we shall pursue a deliberate strategy of partial or phased opening, starting with domestic flight operations and subsequently shifting to international flight operations on a selective basis," added Cusi.

Right now, MIAA is drafting strategic policies and is in discussions with local airlines in exhausting all possible options for the realization of actual flight operations at Terminal 3 for a safer, more orderly and more convenient air travel for our passengers.

Cusi said management has been undertaking the necessary research, planning and policy studies that relate to the basic issues of opening new passenger terminals, expanding terminal facilities and reorganizing airline operations within the NAIA complex.

NAIA currently handles 90 percent of international traffic and 75 of all international and domestic traffic combined.

Last April, MIAA published an Invitation to bid for the terminal completion works. The bid was declared a failure because two of the eight interested firms did not pass the required eligibility checks. As a result, MIAA engineers undertook some tests, assessments and inspections preparatory to system testing and commissioning.

Of the 33 equipment systems at Terminal 3 covering basic building systems like the electrical, air-conditioning, people mover and fire protection systems, and airport special systems like the baggage handling system, passenger loading bridges and security screening system, the MIAA engineering group has inspected and assessed 23 systems. Of which, the group found out that there were missing software, system keys, wires and cables; there were obsolete components; worn-out devices; there were also systems designs that were already inappropriate for present requirements, particularly for the structured cabling system.

Cusi said that the MIAA engineering group will work on the following: completion of the inspection of other systems; coordination with manufacturer's representative for cost estimates to complete; replacement of system components; procurement of needed components and software; prioritization of systems to be completed for a possible soft opening within the next few months; and identification of viable alternatives in case a permanent solution would take a considerable time to complete. - GMANews.TV

kiretoce

June 3rd, 2008, 02:35 PM

@Dex: The sight of Mt. Mayon always gives that added oomph to a photo. Awesome! :okay:

@Bustero: I'm confused about the "paying PR" part. :?

I hope that new Philippine-Canadian Air Agreement will bring PR (or other Philippine carriers) to the cities of the Canadian interior (Calgary and Winnipeg) and to the Cities of the Canadian East Coast (Toronto and Montreal) where there are considerable amounts of Filipino residents.

Sky Harbor

June 3rd, 2008, 03:06 PM

a s i a n a

June 3rd, 2008, 04:45 PM

If PAL is limited to only 5 US destinations per aviation agreement signed in the 90s, so what's left is only 1 city. I hope it's a toss up between JFK, ORD, IAH and SAN.

kiretoce

June 3rd, 2008, 04:47 PM

I don't see PAL flying to Toronto or Montréal (or frankly, any further than Vancouver, whether in Canada or to the U.S.) until they get their 777s, and if I'm right, PAL's North American expansion is contingent on the size of the Filipino community/ies involved. If Calgary and Winnipeg have the numbers, then PAL has the incentive to serve.

Filipino populations in Canada (2006 census):

Toronto, ON - 181,330
Vancouver, BC - 83,765
Winnipeg, MB - 38,275
Calgary, AB - 26,680
Montreal, QC - 24,900
Edmonton, AB - 21,150

Sky Harbor

June 3rd, 2008, 04:48 PM

I think it's in their interest to diversify beyond California and Nevada and move eastward. I still think, though, that the Filipino populations of Winnipeg, Calgary and Montréal are too small to warrant direct flights from PAL for the time being. Maybe MNL-YYZ would be the way to go first.

kiretoce

June 3rd, 2008, 05:02 PM

If PAL is limited to only 5 US destinations per aviation agreement signed in the 90s, so what's left is only 1 city. I hope it's a toss up between JFK, ORD, IAH and SAN.

You're forgetting IAD/BWI. There are a lot of Filipinos in the mid-Atlantic states.

arianespace

June 3rd, 2008, 06:07 PM

^^
going back to the gulf, well i hope they open up the slots to other carriers as well without having to pay PR, flying to the gulf direct is more expensive than flying through other hubs like CLK or Changi because of this protectionism... back to profits but at our expense

Not likely for the next 4 years. PAL is quite happy with the code-share arrangements. So too are the gulf careers. However 12 additional slots are brewing for mideast. There will be 4 additional flights to Dubai within the next year. Well, courtesy of emirates and philippine airlines of course. It could have been now but emirates or PAL dont have the equipment to serve the additional frequency at this time. Similar situations with other gulf careers. And while these airlines create situation for demand, they already assured themselves of profit for the impending service, by filling their planes to the brim when they arrive. Applications for additional frequency was already filed a year ago so its wrong to assume that PAL is holding the application because they will benefit both ways from code-share arrangements.

Code-sharing is a trend in the airline industry and it will continue to be so if they are to be profitable.:)

To do it otherwise is a no-no. That is what the Air Agreement is for. If PAL dont fly foreign careers dont fly. To circumvent it, either you fly code-share or lease the slot of the other career to operate and fly that route. One example of that arrangement is Manila-Vancouver route vv. PAL flies but Air Canada doesnt and it wants more flight that ACA dont use. They dont have code-share arrangement with the latter but the former is flying to canada? Why? Because the former lease the entitlement of the latter as if they were operating in RP and for the latter to agree the former has to lease the latter's plane. By that arrangement, both airlines are happy.

The only exception to that is an open sky agreement, such as asian open sky valid for 2009 onwards, EU-US open sky effective 2008, and singapore-london open sky agreement. So dont wonder why Changi has so much flight it really dont need. Because Changi was declared by their government to be an open airport to grow just like GMA did to Clark before she qualified it.:)

[dx]

June 3rd, 2008, 06:17 PM

Cebu Pacific is world’s no. 1 in passenger growth (http://bworld.com.ph/BW060408/content.php?id=031#laptop)
BusinessWorld

AMONG THE WORLD’S 30 largest low-cost carriers in 2007, Cebu Pacific (CEB) ranked first in terms of passenger carriage growth, according to Airline Business magazine’s May 2008 issue.

CEB was also ranked no. 23 in the world and no. 5 in Asia in total passengers carried in 2007. CEB carried a total of almost 5.5 million passengers in 2007, up 57.4% from 2006.

Lance Y. Gokongwei, CEB president and CEO, said, "This is a testament that our offering — new aircraft and most affordable fares — has caught on and we believe will continue to gain momentum."

This year, CEB expects to fly 7 million passengers as it takes delivery of new planes and expands its service domestically and internationally. It recently offered an unprecedented 500,000 seats for free with the passengers paying only for the surcharges and government tax.

Southwest Airlines (USA) topped the low-cost carrier category with 88.7 million passengers, followed by Ryanair (Ireland), easyJet (UK), Air Berlin (Germany) and AirTran Airways. CEB joins Indonesia’s Lion Air (1) and the now defunct Adam Air (4), Malaysia’s AirAsia (2) and Deccan (3) of India in Asia’s Top 5.

CEB has a fleet of ten A319s, eight A320s and two ATR 72-500 aircraft. The airline flies to 14, soon to be 16, international destinations with the addition of Kaoshiung in June and Kota Kinabalu on July. It will also add Tuguegarao and Naga in its domestic network in June and San Jose, Mindoro in July.

terrapinoy

June 3rd, 2008, 07:32 PM

You're forgetting IAD/BWI. There are a lot of Filipinos in the mid-Atlantic states.

In a perfect Pinoy world, we would have PAL serving IAD and 5J serving BWI to tie in with Southwest.:lol:

kiretoce

June 3rd, 2008, 09:09 PM

^^ :lol: 5J long-haul international. :rofl:

arianespace

June 3rd, 2008, 11:02 PM

^^nice pix

going back to the gulf, well i hope they open up the slots to other carriers as well without having to pay PR, flying to the gulf direct is more expensive than flying through other hubs like CLK or Changi because of this protectionism... back to profits but at our expense

It would have been nice if such was the reality. But the sorry state of PAL today make it impossible to render reciprocal service other than to opt for code-share agreements. Limiting the seats adds the constraint. The government cant really do much on that respect as implementation of Air transport agreement are dependent on the airlines service agreement.

Truth of the matter is, the gulf States became transit point of foreigners and filipino workers from PI with connecting flights to Europe, Africa, and Indian subcontinent because of its cheaper connection. Seat allocations for OFW's bound for mideast flights are set aside in favor of European or African bound passengers who travel on the same airline because they pay more. Its like this, if both of us travel on the same day RT and both of us will leave in a weeks time via emirates, you being bound for europe and me for dubai, chances are you can have your ticket say paris while ill be waitlisted.

Air service agreements are never designed to let a foreign career carry passengers beyond the contracting states border. It worked this way. Lets say for example, 250,000 passengers are projected to terminate its journey in dubai within the next 3 or 5 years, while another 150,000 makes a connecting flight out of Dubai from Manila, the governments will only approve 300,000 seat entitlement for the two state careers with provision for third state connection usually pegged at 1/3 of actual and projected traffic, until the next round of talks which usually happen between 4 or 5 years. The purpose of this clause is to prevent poaching, an aviation term used by airlines to refer to an act of carrying other airline passengers in their own turf toward a third state destination served by a domestic airline, by charging it as traffic to their own state, to the detriment of the domestic airline. Therefore there are 400,000 passengers bound for Dubai while only 300,000 seats are granted. So where does the rest of the passengers go? Well to other state airlines, so on and so forth, until all are filled.

The problem lies here. Usually, a Bilateral Air Transport Agreement (BATA) is subject to review within 3 to 5 years. This is the catch, agreement will only be reviewed upon the request of either national airline of the need to increase seat entitlement, and the capacity of the other to match the requested flight. If request don't happen there is no review. Now from the looks of it, either there was no request made from the operating airline, or there was but the other cant match the requested flight. In the process, both airlines created demand and guaranteed expected profits for its operation for the years to come because of its protection from BATA. The downside of it is dwindling traffic which happened in 1998 to 2003 when airlines suffered overcapacity.It made airlines adopt to alliances and code-share flights to address overcapacity and protect profitability of its route. It also enables it to channel equipment to other areas of operation or leased it to other operators to keep earning money rather than by operating at a loss. Bankruptcy proceedings of US Airlines is a grim example of that effect and stern warning as well to other operators.:)

I beg to differ on the cheap flights from abroad. If you travel a lot you will see why. Bottomline is, ticket prices are relative and determined based on time of travel and departure within the year, either lean or peak season, and from dates of your departure from date of purchase of ticket. The sooner your journey, the expensive the ticket becomes. To give you an example, why is it cheaper to fly PAL at night to either Singapore or Bangkok? And why is it cheaper to fly Cathay Pacific at night from Manila to London via Hongkong even if you booked 1 month in advance for the same journey? Because day flight are easily filled and impromptu travelers fly on daytime to their destination with multiple flights per day and they pay more money than previously booked passengers on the same class. Night flights are mostly dull shunned by frequent travelers unless you ended up with no choice. Also would you rather arrive at night than day if you have the choice?:)

sonnyville

June 4th, 2008, 12:29 AM

^^ I don't see PAL flying to Toronto or Montréal (or frankly, any further than Vancouver, whether in Canada or to the U.S.) until they get their 777s, and if I'm right, PAL's North American expansion is contingent on the size of the Filipino community/ies involved. If Calgary and Winnipeg have the numbers, then PAL has the incentive to serve.

I still think though that PAL's priorities for North America are set: CEB-LAX, MNL-SPN, MNL-ORD, MNL-SAN and Manila to New York City (they served Newark, but who knows, they may move to JFK). I hope especially, though, that they make MNL-LAS non-stop.

It's about time they began direct services to Cebu, particularly the route you mentioned, CEB-LAX. Madaming mga tiga Visayas and Southern Philippines in Southern California and it's about time that PAL did something about the demand for a direct flight to Cebu. Madaming mga tiga Southern Philippines would rather take Cathay, Korean Air, or Asiana since it bypasses the hastling MNL airport. This is an excellent chance for PAL and convenient para sa mga tiga Southern Philippines kung ng start ang PAL ng direct flight. Wala na stop over sa Hong Kong or Seoul. Nakaka frustrate pa yung connecting flight sa MNL kung minsan , kababa mo after a long 16 hour flight tapos nakatutok na mga employees ng airport asking for money and such things. At ngayon, saan ba ang progressive tourism sa buong Pilipinas kung hinde sa Visayas and Southern Philippines? -Not just tourism, but business seems to be booming more in the Southern Philippines. Madaming mga factories sa Southern Philippines, PAL could even start its competitive Cargo fleet sana. Sana lang maayos ayos na at mapalakihan na nila ang Mactan to rival as well as support MNL.

Big point and picture.....
PAL should invest in the Southern Philippines more. I'm glad they have this new PAL express thing in Mactan, it's a start, but they can do more. The government can do more too. Nandito lahat, tourism, business, foreigners, demand for direct services... etc.

As far as I'm concern.... sa sobrang problema at political issue sa NAIA (terminal 3) and yang former Clark airbase as the future international gate way to the RP... Mga kababayan.... What about Cebu as the international gate way to the RP kaya na lang? Problem solve. :lol:

barrera_marquez

June 4th, 2008, 01:42 AM

Wala po ba tayong flights mga kuya mula Manila papuntang Clark? Salamat...

mwg12a

June 4th, 2008, 02:27 AM

It's kinda hard to move the main gateway to cebu with the center for trade and commerce as well as government offices are all in Manila. It's always nice to have MCIA as another bigger international gateway to the Philippines.

Sky Harbor

June 4th, 2008, 03:08 AM

^^ I answered this question in the Clark thread: SEAIR previously operated MNL-CRK, but discontinued it. Not sure why, but poor loads may be a good answer.

Rall

June 4th, 2008, 12:06 PM

Wala po ba tayong flights mga kuya mula Manila papuntang Clark? Salamat...

isn't that too close?

wouldn't the check-in time be longer than the entire flight...

dinabaw

June 4th, 2008, 12:48 PM

^^ close proximity is like GenSan to Davao but the diff. they have good roads and flat terrains :)

barrera_marquez

June 4th, 2008, 01:41 PM

isn't that too close?

wouldn't the check-in time be longer than the entire flight...

Mag-bus na lang tayo, 1 hour lang naman e...

bartstrife99

June 4th, 2008, 05:03 PM

COSCO looks for island as hub

By GENIVI FACTAO

China Ocean Shipping Co.,(COSCO) the world’s second-largest shipping firm, is reported to be considering looking at another island to set up its logistics hub after finding Sangley Point in Cavite, too small.

Liang Wentao, economic commercial counselor of the Chinese embassy said COSCO while still considering putting up a logistics center in the country.can’t find a good location.

"They want to work in a very big island, since COSCO is really a big shipping company," Liang said.

He said COSCO officials have visited Sangley Point and found it "quite small".

"The lands here are privately owned and its difficult to look for a piece of land and develop a logistic hub," he added.

He commended the Philippines’ effort in enticing investors to come in.

"The Philippine government is doing a good job," he claimed.

Other than Sangley point, COSCO has reportedly been eyeing the Subic Freeport.

"We view Subic and even Clark as a destination for investment. Infrastructure there are in place and we promote these areas in China," he said.

He claimed that its up to the company to find the best place to invest here in the Philippines.

COSCO has been looking for joint venture with a local firm for the various components of its shipping and logistics hub in the country.

COSCO is now in the stage of working out local partnerships for the shipping hub, shipbuilding, industrial estate and maritime school, which are components of the integrated shipping and logistics hub it proposed to undertake in the country,"Francis Chua, the Philippines’ Special Envoy to China for Trade and Investments earlier said.

COSCO has presented its proposal to build an integrated shipping and logistics hub as early as June last year.

The Philippines hub will be for shipment bound to Europe and America. The cargo from Asia will come to the Philippines as a staging point to go to US, North America, Europe and vice versa.

The COSCO facility when put up is expected to generate employment of about 100,000 .

Juan Pilgrim

June 4th, 2008, 05:24 PM

^^
IF COSCO THINKS SANGLEY POINT IS TOO SMALL,
I RECOMMEND THE PORT OF DAVAO IN THE ISLAND OF MINDANAO.

http://www.mindanao.com/images/atfdavao.gif

:horse:

J.P.

kratos1211

June 4th, 2008, 06:52 PM

:ohno::bash:

Pasay set to tax NAIA passengers

Thursday, June 5, 2008

Pasay City has reportedly approved an ordinance imposing a P50 tax on all passengers of aircraft flying out of the Ninoy Aquino International Airport (NAIA).

Since the NAIA recorded P10 million passengers last year, the Pasay city government hopes to earn about P50 million a year.

City secretary invited Manila International Airport Authority general manager Alfonso Cusi to attend the city council’s regular session last May 26. Cusi has not issued any statement regarding the issue.

However, an official of the Airline Operators Council (AOC), whose members include all of 30 international airlines operating out of NAIA, said if the tax pushes through, “many passengers would no longer fly out of NAIA and would rather use the Mactan-Cebu International Airport or the Diosdado Macapagal International Airport, if only to avoid paying more fees.”

The AOC official also asked whether the city government’s tax has the approval of the International Civil Aviation Organization, the world body that regulates all airline charges to passengers. – Rudy Santos

Chrisvenz

June 4th, 2008, 06:56 PM

kiretoce

June 4th, 2008, 07:15 PM

Air fares (http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2008/june/04/yehey/business/20080604bus14.html)

It seems that domestic air fares here are galloping up in price disproportionately from levels in other neighboring Asean states, or even price increases on international routes.

As in most places working out which ticket to buy is a major research task given the bewildering array of prices and restrictions that need to be worked through; e.g., cheapest flight Cagayan de Oro to Manila P688, most expensive P3,868, in both cases there is a fuel surcharge of P1,900. Cheapest flight Puerto Princesa to Manila PHP 288, most expensive P3,578 with fuel charges P1,650. Cebu Pacific has a fuel surcharge of P2,251 on a fare of P888! Prices are always quoted one way, as are the fuel surcharges. If added to this is the level of advice given by travel agents (and their payment terms) then there is a lot of unnecessary extra effort spent in making what should be a simple arrangement for a domestic flight, into a time consuming lottery.

Fuel surcharges are an interesting area, why is it that there is a surcharge of the equivalent of US$41 for a one hour flight by Philippine Airlines between Manila and Puerto Princesa compared to a US$ 29 surcharge for a flight between Manila and Singapore lasting 3 to 3.5 hours, on the same airline with the same aircraft type? Apparently fuel costs represent about 30 percent of an airline’s operating costs, which begs the question as to why fuel surcharges in some cases are up to 3 times the regular fare and how can they be so high when related to distance traveled (on the assumption that the further the distance traveled, the more fuel is used).

Of course it is to be expected that the response to these questions from the airlines will be complicated calculations that show differential load factor effects and the below cost discounting of certain routes. Not helpful to the poor old passenger (these people are such a nuisance!). The role of the travel agent I would have thought would be to guide travelers through this maze of choices, pointing out the best deals—but no, it seems that, at least in my own experience, this wish is unable to be fulfilled. If you want to find out what is the best deal for your own particular travel needs then the answer seems to be to “do it yourself”, having done it yourself you then have the option of paying in cash for the ticket some days before the actual flight and probably having to send somebody to collect it, or booking on line using a credit card which gives 30 days interest free credit, and printing out your “e ticket” in the comfort of your own home or office—is there any doubt which is the preferred option? Is it any wonder that travel agents are having a hard time of it and that business is going down? I think not. The travel agencies need to realize that they are a service provider and that to succeed in that type of business they actually need to provide more of a service than making a booking and printing out a ticket; they have to provide advice and guidance on which is the best travel choice and they have to provide some level of credit for their customers. It should not be beyond their competence to challenge (as a group) seemingly odd fuel surcharge levels—somebody needs to take the travelers position after all, individuals cannot make much of an impact by themselves. Is there a regulator I wonder who has to approve fuel surcharges in the Philippines, or is it a matter just left to the market? If it is just left to the market, is that enough? . . . it doesn’t look as if it is!

Ph Man

June 4th, 2008, 08:44 PM

:ohno: sobrang dami nang tax. ano na naman ang naiisip ni Mayor at ng mga councilors ba't nila ipinasa ang ordinance na yan? :ohno: nagkataon lang na nasa Pasay ang airport. this is a property of the whole country and not something that Pasay is renting out to the public! tsk tsk...

pi_malejana

June 4th, 2008, 09:55 PM

diz

June 5th, 2008, 12:45 AM

they recorded 10 million peso passengers?

Sou-jiro

June 5th, 2008, 12:55 AM

damn these polliticians..they are the source of problems & evil in our country...

a s i a n a

June 5th, 2008, 04:40 AM

damn these polliticians..they are the source of problems & evil in our country...

Let's burn them! Sunugin!

3D-CAD

June 5th, 2008, 04:48 AM

mali ata math nila.. 50x10=500, P500million dapat ang makukuha nila sa tax..:D

P450 million :nuts: ang lalim ng bulsa ng hinayupak kung sinoman kukurakot nyan!

JustHorace

June 5th, 2008, 04:57 AM

And to think that the Pasay mayor was suspended on corruption charges!

bartstrife99

June 5th, 2008, 03:44 PM

actuallya parang gusto nila yung katulad sa spratlys isaland natin may paliparan ang ganda ng view!

Sou-jiro

June 6th, 2008, 03:25 AM

Let's burn them! Sunugin!

ok im with you :D sino una?

a s i a n a

June 6th, 2008, 03:44 AM

Sou-jiro

June 6th, 2008, 04:08 AM

^^:lol:

Anyways, the Pasay gov't is joining the ATO (for neglecting our local aiports that caused cat 2 downgrade) and Cusi (for his never-ending announcements for T3 opening) for this Philippine aviation pita.

yup theyre arguing passing the blame on each other
& playing the Blame game

why dont they just make a new TV game/quiz show
called "The Blame Game".....offcoure with you host Cusi...:D

tapus yung studio audience nila mga protestors..lol

bustero

June 6th, 2008, 05:07 AM

Not likely for the next 4 years. PAL is quite happy with the code-share arrangements. So too are the gulf careers. However 12 additional slots are brewing for mideast. There will be 4 additional flights to Dubai within the next year. Well, courtesy of emirates and philippine airlines of course. It could have been now but emirates or PAL dont have the equipment to serve the additional frequency at this time. Similar situations with other gulf careers. And while these airlines create situation for demand, they already assured themselves of profit for the impending service, by filling their planes to the brim when they arrive. Applications for additional frequency was already filed a year ago so its wrong to assume that PAL is holding the application because they will benefit both ways from code-share arrangements.

Code-sharing is a trend in the airline industry and it will continue to be so if they are to be profitable.:)

To do it otherwise is a no-no. That is what the Air Agreement is for. If PAL dont fly foreign careers dont fly. To circumvent it, either you fly code-share or lease the slot of the other career to operate and fly that route. One example of that arrangement is Manila-Vancouver route vv. PAL flies but Air Canada doesnt and it wants more flight that ACA dont use. They dont have code-share arrangement with the latter but the former is flying to canada? Why? Because the former lease the entitlement of the latter as if they were operating in RP and for the latter to agree the former has to lease the latter's plane. By that arrangement, both airlines are happy.

The only exception to that is an open sky agreement, such as asian open sky valid for 2009 onwards, EU-US open sky effective 2008, and singapore-london open sky agreement. So dont wonder why Changi has so much flight it really dont need. Because Changi was declared by their government to be an open airport to grow just like GMA did to Clark before she qualified it.:)

Thank you but my point had nothing against code sharing per se but the way that the lack of competition and it's effect on making airlines profitable at the expense of consumers is fostered by bilateral treaties and how these treaties and it's regulation can can be captured by private interest to the detriment of the greater good.

I understand the game of leasing entitlements. It's why I said they should not give more to PAL and more to 5J so that there will be some competition as long as 5J really flies a flight there instead of also leasing out it's entitlement. At least at that point more flights and seats can open up so that prices will lower instead of the current situation where the seats are capped and there is basically an windfall because the huge demand going to the middle east.

bustero

June 6th, 2008, 05:18 AM

It would have been nice if such was the reality. But the sorry state of PAL today make it impossible to render reciprocal service other than to opt for code-share agreements. Limiting the seats adds the constraint. The government cant really do much on that respect as implementation of Air transport agreement are dependent on the airlines service agreement.

Truth of the matter is, the gulf States became transit point of foreigners and filipino workers from PI with connecting flights to Europe, Africa, and Indian subcontinent because of its cheaper connection. Seat allocations for OFW's bound for mideast flights are set aside in favor of European or African bound passengers who travel on the same airline because they pay more. Its like this, if both of us travel on the same day RT and both of us will leave in a weeks time via emirates, you being bound for europe and me for dubai, chances are you can have your ticket say paris while ill be waitlisted.

Air service agreements are never designed to let a foreign career carry passengers beyond the contracting states border. It worked this way. Lets say for example, 250,000 passengers are projected to terminate its journey in dubai within the next 3 or 5 years, while another 150,000 makes a connecting flight out of Dubai from Manila, the governments will only approve 300,000 seat entitlement for the two state careers with provision for third state connection usually pegged at 1/3 of actual and projected traffic, until the next round of talks which usually happen between 4 or 5 years. The purpose of this clause is to prevent poaching, an aviation term used by airlines to refer to an act of carrying other airline passengers in their own turf toward a third state destination served by a domestic airline, by charging it as traffic to their own state, to the detriment of the domestic airline. Therefore there are 400,000 passengers bound for Dubai while only 300,000 seats are granted. So where does the rest of the passengers go? Well to other state airlines, so on and so forth, until all are filled.

The problem lies here. Usually, a Bilateral Air Transport Agreement (BATA) is subject to review within 3 to 5 years. This is the catch, agreement will only be reviewed upon the request of either national airline of the need to increase seat entitlement, and the capacity of the other to match the requested flight. If request don't happen there is no review. Now from the looks of it, either there was no request made from the operating airline, or there was but the other cant match the requested flight. In the process, both airlines created demand and guaranteed expected profits for its operation for the years to come because of its protection from BATA. The downside of it is dwindling traffic which happened in 1998 to 2003 when airlines suffered overcapacity.It made airlines adopt to alliances and code-share flights to address overcapacity and protect profitability of its route. It also enables it to channel equipment to other areas of operation or leased it to other operators to keep earning money rather than by operating at a loss. Bankruptcy proceedings of US Airlines is a grim example of that effect and stern warning as well to other operators.:)

I beg to differ on the cheap flights from abroad. If you travel a lot you will see why. Bottomline is, ticket prices are relative and determined based on time of travel and departure within the year, either lean or peak season, and from dates of your departure from date of purchase of ticket. The sooner your journey, the expensive the ticket becomes. To give you an example, why is it cheaper to fly PAL at night to either Singapore or Bangkok? And why is it cheaper to fly Cathay Pacific at night from Manila to London via Hongkong even if you booked 1 month in advance for the same journey? Because day flight are easily filled and impromptu travelers fly on daytime to their destination with multiple flights per day and they pay more money than previously booked passengers on the same class. Night flights are mostly dull shunned by frequent travelers unless you ended up with no choice. Also would you rather arrive at night than day if you have the choice?:)

I understand your points and have no problems with them my example of the cheap flights had more to do with how the system of artificial caps protect airlines private interest rather than the riding public. Prices are of course affected by many things like frequency, service, type of planes, schedule. But on a basic demand supply analysis it starts with how many people want to go someplace regardless. In the Philippines Middle East market, the numbers of people who have to go there and do not care too much about the other considerations and look primarily to the actual travel and price is substantial.

We know that the mid east carriers have asked for repeatedly more flights , they've even tried to fly to Clark , all these have been shot down so far. In spite of these flights are still restricted even if there is now a substantial premium between flying direct to any of the middle eastern hubs from Manila and hubbing through a regional hub like Singapore/HK/BK. The consumer is not best served by this and basically the entitlement holder like PR makes a lot of money even if it has no capability to service the market. It can only restrict it so that such entitlements and the profits it produces can still continue.

ulay bugang

June 6th, 2008, 09:01 AM

I think imposing taxes to the passengers is illegal & unconstitutional, why are they collecting taxes to passengers?

Paying of taxes are only imposed to the person working or doing business in the city.

Bakit ka magbabayad ng tax kung dadaan ka lang sa pasay para sumakay ng eroplano,
na ang binayaran mong pamasahe ay taxable na?

jbkayaker12

June 6th, 2008, 12:10 PM

This was relayed to me by a cousin who is a Flight Attendant at Cebu Pacific. She said that Cebu Pacific will be flying Trans-Pacific to the United States around 2011 and will be purchasing 777 for their US flights. How reliable is her source? I have no idea but she has worked with Cebu Pacific since its first year of operations. It would be nice for this to become a reality sooner than later.

Bravo Cebu Pacific!!!

Chrisvenz

June 6th, 2008, 12:59 PM

Waldenstrom

June 6th, 2008, 01:09 PM

Sky Harbor

June 6th, 2008, 01:11 PM

^^ The partnership is only for WorldPerks mile redemption and cargo handling (sana codeshare). I still support a PAL bid though for SkyTeam over Cebu Pacific, which, being an LCC, would not join an airline alliance. I would not support PAL joining Oneworld, which is the rumor.

However, it would be good for 5J to adopt WorldPerks as its frequent flier program.

kiretoce

June 6th, 2008, 01:57 PM

^^ Actually, PR will be a better fit with OneWorld than with SkyTeam since it already has interline agreements with AA, QF, and CX; all major players in OneWorld's alliance.

As for 5J's and NW's partnership; August 1, 2006 Northwest Airlines and Cebu Pacific no longer have a mileage accrual agreement, although WorldPerks miles may still be redeemed on Cebu Pacific. As of January 26, 2008, Northwest Airlines has temporarily suspended their partnership with Cebu Pacific, due to the FAA Category 2 downgrading.

kiretoce

June 6th, 2008, 01:58 PM

Post away folks! :colgate:

Link to Thread 14 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=555729) in the Archives. :okay:

kiretoce

June 6th, 2008, 01:59 PM

New thread! (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=640766) :colgate:

:lock:

Sky Harbor

June 6th, 2008, 02:04 PM

To think that PAL and airline alliances would be the last two posts of the previous thread. Haha.

If I am right, PAL has interline agreements with NW, CO and DL, plus a codeshare with MH, which is rumored to join SkyTeam between 2008 and 2010. I would also factor in PAL's previous codeshares with AF and KL into the formula. Therefore, SkyTeam is a better choice for PAL than Oneworld (well, in my opinion). :D

kiretoce

June 6th, 2008, 03:51 PM

PR's interline agreements are with AA and CX, both OneWorld members, and a codeshare agreement with MH. 5J is NW's regional WorldPerks Frequent Flyer program partner, but that agreement has been suspended due to the downgrade to Cat 2 by the FAA.

a s i a n a

June 6th, 2008, 04:09 PM

MH will not be joining SkyTeam. Idris Jala (am I right?), their CEO, said that the airline will not be joining any alliance. I read it in an article but I can't trace it anymore.

PR is better fit in SkyTeam. In Star Alliance, PR will compete with southeast Asian carriers SQ and TG. In oneworld, HKG is a short hop from MNL and CX is there. And besides, SkyTeam is not that crowded even though there's China Southern and in the near future, say, China Airlines.

Sky Harbor

June 6th, 2008, 04:14 PM

I wonder though if PAL would really be invited to join Oneworld, seeing that JAL is helping Vietnam Airlines join the alliance in order to fill the void of having no Southeast Asian carrier.

If I were to make an imaginary chart of how Southeast Asian carriers should be divided by airline alliance, I'd come up with this:

-Star Alliance: SQ, TG
-Oneworld: VN, BI
-SkyTeam: MH, PR, GA

kiretoce

June 6th, 2008, 05:45 PM

Star Alliance

Full Members:
- Air China (including Shandong Airlines)
- ANA All Nippon Airways (including Air Nippon)
- Asiana Airlines
- Shanghai Airlines
- Singapore Airlines
- Thai Airways International

Future/Possible Members:
- Air India (including Air India Express and Air India Regional)

OneWorld

Full Members:
- Cathay Pacific Airways
- Japan Airlnes (including JALways, JAL Express, Japan Transocean Air, and J-Air)

Future/Possible Members:
- China Eastern Airlines
- Grand China Airlines
- Vietnam Airlines

SkyTeam

Full Members:
- China Southern Airlines
- Korean Air

Future/Possible Members:
- China Airlines
- China Eastern Airlines
- Malaysia Airlines*

===========================================================================

*MH - Malaysia Airlines reached an agreement with Air France-KLM to upgrade their codeshare agreements into an alliance in 2006. While there is no timetable for Malaysia Airlines to join SkyTeam, their current restructuring plan puts 2008-2009 as the target years. Malaysia Airlines also reached an agreement with Alitalia and China Southern Airlines, SkyTeam members, to start code-sharing in 2007.

*PR - is the feeder airline for CX and JL from the Philippines to their hubs in HKG and NRT for onward traffic away from the Asia-Pacific region to other points across the globe. Also, as stated PR already has established interline agreements with CX, JL, QF, and AA; and is a codeshare partner with VN for flights between the Philippines and Vietnam. PR has more commonalities with OneWorld member carriers than it is with SkyTeam members.

Gil

June 7th, 2008, 11:36 AM

A bit of discussion over in another forum led me here. From what I've gathered from the last few posts in the XIV thread regarding PR's expansion into North America, if the FAA will only allow them to fly into one additional city, say San Diego, could PR then fly into Toronto while waiting for an upgrade back to Cat 1 from the FAA? They could use Toronto as a gateway to eastern North America giving PR access to Montréal, New York, Chicago and Washington. It would also put it in the position of almost directly competing with Northwest, which hopefully will be a good things for kababayans from this part of the world.

The flip side of the agreement is that Air Canada could start flying into Manila from Vancouver or Toronto. Perhaps a codeshare agreement between PR and AC?

a s i a n a

June 7th, 2008, 12:53 PM

There are rumors in A.net... AF-KLM is asking VN to join SkyTeam.

Gil, I think there's a confusion in the aviation agreement between RP and US. At the time it was signed, PR already have LAX, SFO and HNL in the route network. So basically, the 5 cities PR is allowed to fly will not include LAX, SFO and HNL anymore.

Gil

June 7th, 2008, 02:26 PM

My personal take on the matter was that whatever service PR was currently offereing to the US would be frozen, meaning no additional flights or destinations unless they complied with the FAA's regulations or got upgraded back to Cat 1 status. So until then, PR could use Canada as a staging ground for more service to the US.

a s i a n a

June 7th, 2008, 03:41 PM

How about the land down under? Is there enough traffic to support 77W in a three weekly basis?

Sky Harbor

June 8th, 2008, 01:47 AM

There are rumors in A.net... AF-KLM is asking VN to join SkyTeam.

I think it's a result of JAL and Oneworld trying to invite VN. The same for China Eastern (only it's Air France and China Southern lobbying them). Haay...airline alliances fighting for one airline.

I still don't get though why PAL is so reluctant to apply to an alliance (instead, it wants to wait for an airline to invite it). Air Algérie applied to SkyTeam and it's doing quite well. I highly doubt any airline would invite PAL into an alliance within the next few years given the circumstances, especially given that the three airline alliances are either inviting other regional airlines (like VN, GS or CI) or integrating others (like AI).

PAL should be more...bold when intending to join an airline alliance.

arianespace

June 8th, 2008, 07:56 AM

On airline alliances, the rule is quite simple really. The thing is you joined if it serves your best interest. The thing with PAL is that currently it don't so why bother. Airline alliances exist due to two things, overcapacity and interconnection. Currently, they don't have that problem. Passenger woes for lack of flights or choices is a manifestation of that. They even are happy of code-shares so why bother. What their problems are involves one thing. Lack of Aircraft. If you have more than that, you opt for alliance to protect your load. Reality wise, it serves the bigger airline than the small ones by rationalizing aircraft utilization, and yes better interconnection, that is less walk at the airport.

On North American flights, yes they are planning to go back to New York via Vancouver. Service to Toronto will also be introduce via SFO or LAX. Currently, they are surveying the traffic. Soon it will gonna be two daily flights for KLAX with the other moving forward to another north american destination and the first flight to MLA the next day. YVR will also have two daily flights with the other outbound for US. Current proposed daily flights runs LAS and hopefully SAN 4-3. The other will go to JFK and probably Chicago. Not certain which airport though as it is still in the drawing board. PAL cannot fly to JFK via LAX because of treaty restrictions. Have you wondered why they can't fly directly to Vegas?

To the land down under, 2 more flights are made available either this year or next. That will be from 3 to 5 to 7. I'm not certain if it still triangular. The traffic is there alright. 744 frequents the place nowadays as they are suffering the overcapacity for 333 service and they don't have additional equipment to serve the route. Definitely 77W will be flying that route soon.:)

Sky Harbor

June 8th, 2008, 08:04 AM

^^ Can't PAL fly non-stop? It's probable that PAL is one of the last airlines in Asia who have North American destinations that are served direct rather that non-stop (MH being the other, serving Newark via Stockholm).

Also, isn't it that PAL can't fly to New York via Los Angeles (or even LAX-MNL via HNL) because of cabotage restrictions?

sonnyville

June 8th, 2008, 08:17 AM

nakabalik na ba yung PAL 744 that under went a D-check and cabin reconfiguration?? i think they were supposed to put in the new seats and onboard entertainment system. just wondering how it looks and what kind of service they provide onboard.

arianespace

June 8th, 2008, 10:52 AM

^^

They can. Problem is they don't have the equipment to fly to NY direct. Even the 340 with GMA together with less than 100 pax can't reach NY. They have to refuel and the last time they did it was in LA. Even Cathay Pacific stops at Vancouver for JFK. Only Singapore and Thai Airlines runs the Asia-NY route non-stop via 350 because they are the only operators of that aircraft. Japan and Korea are the exceptions due to proximity. PAL can fly LA to NY but for refueling purpose only and no picking of passengers.Thats the rule. If they fly in Vancouver, they can pick passengers to US or Mexico although restricted in numbers about 30-50%. I'm not sure about the new figures in BATA but these will pave the way for PAL to establish north american hub in YVR to launch multiple points in the US like SAN, JFK, Chicago and Seattle. IF you can't do it directly, then do it indirectly.

Previously, PAL went to Newark because its less expensive to fly there, but the mogul wants nothing less than JFK. Lets see how it works.:)

With a new ATA with Canada, 14 weekly flights are secured. Now, the only problem is aircraft. FAA downgrade will not be there for long.

Anyway, this is how an Air Transport Agreement look like before.

PHILIPPINES
1. Date of Agreement

Legal Title: Agreement between the Government of Canada and the Government of the Republic of the Philippines on Air Transport

January 14, 1997 - Agreement signed

May 30, 1997 - Entered into force
2. Other Instruments

September 11, 1996

Agreed Minute (The delegations agreed on the text of a bilateral Air Transport Agreement),

May 20 & 30, 1997

Diplomatic Note (Entry into Force of Agreement)

March 7 and March 19, 2001

Diplomatic Notes (Republic of the Philippines requests access to the transit without visa program at Vancouver International Airport for Philippine Airlines. Request granted).
3. Characterization of Bilateral Agreement

A. Grant of Rights:

as specified in the Annex.

B. Designation:

Multiple, Air Canada and Philippine Airlines.

C. Tariffs:

single disapproval.

D. Capacity:

Pre-determination: 4 flights/week for own aircraft.
All-cargo: free determination.
4. Routes and Associated Rights

PHILIPPINES - ROUTE 1

1. Points in Canada may be served separately or as co-terminals without stopover privileges between points in Canada. Points in Canada may be changed each IATA season, unless a shorter period is agreed by the aeronautical authorities of Canada.

2. Transit and stopover rights shall be available at the Intermediate Points, and at the Points in Canada for traffic to and from the Beyond Points.

3. The Intermediate Points and/or the Beyond Points may at the option of the designated airline(s) of the Philippines be omitted or any or all flights provided that all services originate or terminate in the Philippines. The selection of the Intermediate Points and Beyond Points may be changed on not less than ten (10) days' notification to the aeronautical authorities of Canada where only transit rights are exercised and each IATA season where fifth freedom rights are exercised, unless a shorter period is agreed by the aeronautical authorities of Canada.

4. Fifth freedom traffic rights shall be available between intermediate points in the USA and the Points in Canada (except between points in California and Toronto) and between the Points in Canada and beyond points in the USA. Fifth freedom rights may only be exercised on up to two (2) route sectors at any one time. The frequency for the exercise of fifth freedom rights on each route sector shall be restricted to a maximum of four (4) flights per week in each direction. Fifth freedom traffic carried on each route sector shall be restricted to no more than fifty percent (50%) of the aircraft capacity used on that route sector, calculated on an annual basis.

5. Subject only to normal regulatory requirements, the designated airline(s) of the Philippines shall have the right, while operating the agreed services, to enter into cooperative arrangements for the purpose of code sharing (selling transportation under its own code) on flights of the designated airline(s) of Canada. Subject to the approval of the aeronautical authorities of Canada, the designated airline(s) of the Philippines may also operate code sharing services between the Points in Canada and Beyond Points on the flights of any third country airline licensed by Canada which is operating scheduled air services on the route sector. Each route sector used for code sharing on the flights of a third country airline shall reduce by one (1) the number of route sectors in Note 4 specified as available for the exercise of fifth freedom rights. No fifth freedom rights shall be exercised in conjunction with code sharing on the flights of a third country airline.

6. For the purposes of Article XI (Capacity), the Government of the Republic of the Philippines shall be entitled to allocate among its designated airlines up to a maximum of four (4) flights per week in each direction for own aircraft flights.

mwg12a

June 8th, 2008, 12:20 PM

@arianspace - There is no aircraft currently that can fly more than 12 hours, boeing is yet to build a B777ER that can fly to about 16 hours straight without refueling. The current B777LR is the only known aircraft that can cross the pacific ocean and do it in a little bit over 12 hours non-stop. I think, PAL's NY and NJ, even Chicago's route was cancelled because of low profitability, mainly due to competition with US aircarrier, unlike Vancouver - Vegas , PAL is the only current air carrier that is serving a direct flight on this route

The A350 is not in the market yet, it's still in designing phase. That is supposed to match the capabilities of boeing's newest "dreamliner", an extended B737 which was also initially being called B7E7. It can carry only around 268 passengers (correct my numbers if I am wrong please). The airbus 350 still has alot of flaws so we are not sure when and if it is infact be introduced in the market anytime soon. Airbus is currently concentrating on their current flagship the A380. Boeing however has a plan on introducing B747 ADVANCED which is also an extended version of the current B747-400 and is also being coined to have the capability of flying 16 hours nonstop.

Solblanc

June 8th, 2008, 01:02 PM

@arianspace - There is no aircraft currently that can fly more than 12 hours, boeing is yet to build a B777ER that can fly to about 16 hours straight without refueling. The current B777LR is the only known aircraft that can cross the pacific ocean and do it in a little bit over 12 hours non-stop. I think, PAL's NY and NJ, even Chicago's route was cancelled because of low profitability, mainly due to competition with US aircarrier, unlike Vancouver - Vegas , PAL is the only current air carrier that is serving a direct flight on this route

Uh...

The A340-500, A340-600, B777-200LR, and the B777-300ER can all fly nonstop for waaay more than 12 hours.

Cathay Pacific flew nonstop HKG-JFK using A340-600s. Now they use B777-300ER aircraft.

Singapore Airlines flies Singapore-Los Angeles and Singapore-New York nonstop using A340-500 aircraft. SIN-LAX is around 16 hours, and SIN-EWR is about 18 hours.

The problem with nonstop flights is that they tend to burn more fuel. UA flies nonstop ORD-HKG with 747s both ways. PAL's 747s make a tech stop on the shorter LAX-MNL flight because it's more profitable for PAL to make a stop so that they can carry more passengers and cargo.

In the case of why New York and Chicago were cancelled, it was a variety of factors. Not many airlines can make a profit flying a wet-leased aircraft on an ultra-long haul route. And PAL tried, and PAL failed. It wasn't due to competition, because no airline currently flies direct from Chicago and New York to Manila.

Crazy4Airplanes

June 8th, 2008, 01:14 PM

ofw_cebu

June 8th, 2008, 06:27 PM

Singapore Air - (taken near heathrow airport)

http://img3.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/2009/200947653b80329cdf91407fa11779de23f6c6e.jpg

Igsuonnimo

June 8th, 2008, 07:13 PM

^^ A380 ba ito?
Maraming order ang SQ sa Airbus.
Iyong mga stewardess nila, ang i-smart. :okay:

Darating ang panahon, iyong mga Pinay stewardess natin madodominahan ang SQ. :banana:

arianespace

June 8th, 2008, 09:44 PM

@arianspace - There is no aircraft currently that can fly more than 12 hours.....

Sorry for the typo. its 345 or the Airbus 340-500. My apologies.

The A380 can actually fly non-stop to australia from london, and from sydney to New York. Also the 773LR has longer range than 345.

arianespace

June 9th, 2008, 12:26 AM

In the case of why New York and Chicago were cancelled, it was a variety of factors. Not many airlines can make a profit flying a wet-leased aircraft on an ultra-long haul route. And PAL tried, and PAL failed. It wasn't due to competition, because no airline currently flies direct from Chicago and New York to Manila.

I share your sentiment on that. In fact one factor involves corporate greed of the people kind. To give you folks idea how it was managed then before rehab, i will share you this link (http://www.answers.com/topic/philippine-airlines-inc?cat=biz-fin). Chicago and New York was actually a profitable route for PAL contrary to your claims. What caused their misery was in fact over expansion with corruption in mind. That is by paying both for wet lease which is more expensive and paying for down-payment of the 12 airbus 340 and 8 330 all at the same time. That is equivalent to eating more than what you could chew. It was just a matter of time before the cow would collapse but the people who run it got the milk already. So you know now why government are bad at running business. The mogul learned a lot from that mistake. If you see how PAL orders plane now and how it operates you would also say ''Kaya pala...'' Its one hell of a learning experience for him.

But take note, mismanagement happened before rehab. In 1992, PAL changed management. It was the same dog with different collar. Post 1998, the mogul changed the dog and the collar.

Life on rehab is hard but even people who has been to rehab deserves some respect to be welcome back to the community and be given second lease of life. Few companies managed to get out but PAL did, however some US and canadian careers simply laugh at its plight and the ones who laugh most are the ones who filed chapter 11 years later. How ironic, when the same airline almost did chapter 11 twice in the span of 10 years. PAL got the last laugh on this one.

When PAL flew YVR-LAS sector, one airline CEO made a comment that 6 months would be too long for PAL to survive the route. The argument made was this, YVR-LAS is simply unsustainable for wide-body flight. Avelino Zapanta keep his ground. In fact, its the only airline to do so. They even made a bet on it and as far as I knew that US airline CEO not only lost his bet of a 100 grand, he also lost his post. Imagine that statement was made in 2004 and look what year are we now? Similar arguments are raised for SAN flight. Well you may assume they could be lucky in LAS, SAN remains to be seen. PAL is raising the stake further. Would the same US airlines laugh again?:)

Sky Harbor

June 9th, 2008, 02:00 AM

^^ I dont have particular faith in United or US Airways anyway (even if US Airways is the dominant carrier in Pittsburgh, I don't care). Besides, United pulled out of the Philippines. It serves them right. Haha. Although the statement would also bring NW, DL and CO into the fray because they all entered (and exited) Chapter 11 in the last twenty years, I think AA and AC are part of the fiasco as well (and are more likely to laugh over PAL's plight over US airlines that actually serve the Philippines).

Given PAL's expansion, would it be safe to assume then that YVR is now a focus city for PAL?

mwg12a

June 9th, 2008, 03:48 AM

Uh...

The A340-500, A340-600, B777-200LR, and the B777-300ER can all fly nonstop for waaay more than 12 hours.

Cathay Pacific flew nonstop HKG-JFK using A340-600s. Now they use B777-300ER aircraft.

Singapore Airlines flies Singapore-Los Angeles and Singapore-New York nonstop using A340-500 aircraft. SIN-LAX is around 16 hours, and SIN-EWR is about 18 hours.

The problem with nonstop flights is that they tend to burn more fuel. UA flies nonstop ORD-HKG with 747s both ways. PAL's 747s make a tech stop on the shorter LAX-MNL flight because it's more profitable for PAL to make a stop so that they can carry more passengers and cargo.

In the case of why New York and Chicago were cancelled, it was a variety of factors. Not many airlines can make a profit flying a wet-leased aircraft on an ultra-long haul route. And PAL tried, and PAL failed. It wasn't due to competition, because no airline currently flies direct from Chicago and New York to Manila.

Okay, I stand corrected on this one, I'm not really too familiar with A340 but I found an article about it stating that an A340-300 is the direct equivalent of the B777-200ER with the -200ER has an MTOW of 631,000 pounds powered by eitherPratt & Whitney PW4084/4090, Rolls-Royce trent 884 or GE90-85B/90-91B1 per airlines companies request. And apparently the B777-200LR is the current world's longest range commercial airlines that entered service in the year 2006 nameing it as the "worldliner" that can fly 9,450 nautical miles in 18 hours using a GE90-110B1 or an option of GE90-115B that is also used in B777-300ER . But check this out, the world's longest recorded longest non-stop flight was with B777-200LR in November 10, 2005 From HK to London with 11,664 nautical miles that lasted 22 hours and 42 minutes. That's just amazing!!! Just an FYI.

And on PAL's cancellation of service to Chicago or NY. Yes on the non profitability of that route, but the service I mentioned about was that PAL would be competing with the US base carriers from east coast to chicago or NY since PAL usually stop to YVR, LAX and SF. I'm not sure if PAL use to fly directly to Chicago or Newark NJ from Manila back in the days when they still service those routes for a short while.

bitoy

June 9th, 2008, 04:18 AM

^^ 18 or 24 hours commercial flight, basta may bathroom, ok lang.. :D

My last MNL-LAX flight was fun, sarap ng pagkain at ang gaganda ng mga flight attendants at the start, pag dating namin sa LAX, mukhang masungit na lahat sila. :lol:

mwg12a

June 9th, 2008, 07:23 AM

^^^ which airline was it??? I have never really seen any good looking flight attendants in any NWA flights. Atleast in the Japan - US leg but the Manila to Japan or vice versa, you would see beautiful fililpina flight attendants.

I wonder why PAL never have any direct flights to Cebu from any US mainland?

bitoy

June 9th, 2008, 08:03 AM

^^ PAL

NW flights - Manila-Japan have young attendants, pag dating na sa JPN-US flights, puro veteran flight attendants na. :D But they can surely haul your butts out of the plane in case of emergency.

Chrisvenz

June 9th, 2008, 12:27 PM

kiretoce

June 9th, 2008, 01:49 PM

NW flights - Manila-Japan have young attendants, pag dating na sa JPN-US flights, puro veteran flight attendants na. :D But they can surely haul your butts out of the plane in case of emergency.

NW's Japan-US flights are staffed by US based FAs and we all know that here in the US you can't discriminate against age, that's why you see older FAs working, and these flights are also apporiated by staff seniority. As for all points from Japan onwards, those are staffed by NW's Asian crews based in NRT.

NightDog

June 9th, 2008, 02:04 PM

definitely 777 will be the world's longest range airliner because of a very obvious reason. it has only 2 engines. there are only two engines burning the fuel. & it is using the GE90 series engines, which is the most reliable engine in the world.

if you will examine it's fuel tank. it has only 181,000 + liters fuel capacity. compared to other aircraft, A340 series has a maximum of 204,000 + liters fuel capacity & B747-400's fuel tanks can handle 241,000 + liters of fuel.

then why it is that B777 can fly more distance. this is very obvious. it has only 2 engines burning the fuel compared to B747 & A340 which have 4 each.

other issue for B777, this aircraft is subject to ETOPS restriction. so far 777 is the only aircraft awarded for the highest ETOPS rating of 180 minutes.

kiretoce

June 9th, 2008, 02:47 PM

Tiger Airways, Asiana buck trend, boost flights to the Philippines (http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/?page=news3_june7_2008)

Tiger Airways, the budget carrier partly owned by Singapore Airlines, said it will be adding frequencies in North Asia and Australia—and boosting services to the Philippines—while rivals Korean Air Lines Co. and Qantas Airways are cutting routes.

And Asiana Airlines, South Korea’s second-largest carrier, will trim services to six Chinese cities—but add flights during the northern hemisphere’s summer to holiday destinations in the Philippines and Japan—as it battles to cope with surging jet-fuel costs.

In Manila, meanwhile, thousands of migrant Filipino workers in Central and Northern Luzon would now benefit from the chartered flights to the United Arab Emirates being offered at the Clark airport by Transglobal Airways, an official said.

The airline launched its inaugural flight Friday using the 160-seater MD-83, and it would now fly to the emirates via Dhaka, Bangladesh, Mondays and Wednesdays, said Victor Jose Luciano, president of Clark International Airport Corp.

“This is a new beginning for [the Diosdado Macapagal International Airport], especially in bringing flights to the Middle East where it will serve 1.8-million [Filipinos] working there,” he said.

“Our workers in the Middle East coming from [Northern Luzon] and the Cordilleras will not have to go to Manila. They can take their flights from [Clark].

Tiger Air would not be grounding any of its planes, chief executive Tony Davis said in a Bloomberg television interview in Singapore Friday.

The carrier is also counting on expansion in China and India, the world’s two-fastest growing major economies, and plans to boost services to the Philippines.

“Everyone is struggling without doubt, but Asian low-cost carriers are presented with a growth opportunity—the envy of the rest of the world,” said Derek Sadubin, chief operating officer for Center for Asia Pacific Aviation.

Asian discount carriers are boosting services as full-fare carriers cut back unprofitable routes in the US and Australia on surging jet-fuel prices.

Rising incomes and economic growth in Asia have encouraged more people to travel by air, helping Tiger Air to post its first annual profit last fiscal year, since starting operations in 2004.

Qantas, Australia’s biggest carrier, on Thursday said it would trim international routes and further cut jobs, a week after axing some domestic services and shrinking its fleet. Discount carrier Jetstar will take over some of the routes.

Korean Air and smaller rival Asiana Airlines Inc. have also announced plans to cut capacity to cope with jet-fuel prices that have almost doubled in a year.

“This is going to be a very tough year,” Davis said.

“We are continuing to grow our business in Australia, and we’re committed to the introduction of our joint venture in Korea.”

Tiger Air has said it plans to team up with South Korea’s Incheon city government to start an airline in the country by the end of the year.

The discount airline had a profit of US$7.3 million for the year ended March 31, Singapore Air’s chief executive Chew Choon Seng said on May 14. Fuel accounts for more than 40 percent of total costs and is the carrier’s single-biggest expense.

Jet kerosene prices in Singapore have risen 90 percent in the past year and reached a record $173.55 a barrel on May 27, according to Bloomberg data.

Airlines worldwide might report combined losses of as much as $6.1 billion this year, the worst since 2003, the International Air Transport Association said this month. The group, whose members account for 93 percent of international traffic, forecast a profit of $4.5 billion in April.

Tiger Air operates 12 single-aisle aircraft and will have 15 planes in its fleet by the end of 2009.

The airline had 60 planes on order and was seeking $225 million to pay for four aircraft due for delivery in 2010, Davis said, declining to give details.

red_jasper

June 9th, 2008, 04:24 PM

Ban on passenger check-in 45 minutes before flight opposed

By Tarra Quismundo
Philippine Daily Inquirer (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/nation/view/20080609-141700/Ban-on-passenger-check-in-45-minutes-before-flight-opposed)
First Posted 21:45:00 06/09/2008

MANILA, Philippines -- Ninoy Aquino International Airport as well as airline officials were caught off guard by the Bureau of Immigration directive barring passengers who check in 45 minutes or less before their flight from boarding.

Officials reached by the Philippine Daily Inquirer said on Monday the BI did not coordinate with the Manila International Airport Authority (MIAA) and the airlines before issuing the new rule.

In an order issued May 29 but made public on June 6, Immigration Commissioner Marcelino Libanan authorized BI personnel at NAIA Terminals 1 and 2 to deny departure to passengers failing to check in before the 45-minute cutoff.

“They can’t do that because they don’t know when to start counting down the minutes. Do they count from the time the passenger enters the airport or at the check-in counter,” said airport security chief Angel Atutubo.

A NAIA official said airline managers complained to him about not being consulted on the matter.

“They just issued the memo without consulting the airlines and the MIAA. Given the many flights here, where will they base that 45-minute cutoff?” repeated the official who sought anonymity as he was not authorized to speak.

Atutubo said the BI appeared to have misunderstood the international regulation that Libanan invoked in issuing the order. Libanan had said the 45-minute cutoff was based on recommended practices of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO).

“But that’s not what the ICAO rule means. What ICAO requires is that both departing and arriving passengers should have gotten through all airport processes -- security screening, check-in or baggage retrieval and immigration check -- within 45 minutes,” Atutubo said.

So far, no passenger has been stopped from boarding because of the new rule, a check with the BI office at the airport on Monday showed.

arianespace

June 9th, 2008, 04:54 PM

^^
YVR hub.
From the looks of it.Yes.

Tiger flights.
Expect more foreign asian planes on the philippine skies, particularly domestic destinations as the Asian Open Sky takes effect in December 2008. That means, no more flight restriction to the Asian region. Seat allocation to Korea has just been quadrupled recently by RP-RK BATA. Japan and China are still in the negotiating table.

Check-in time
In Paris, London and Frankfurt, 45 minutes is not even enough to get you to the gate when you check-in. When you arrive at the gate chances are you are bumped-off the plane. Blame it on security. Lets get real. We are not living 10 years ago. Even Palau President got bumped-out the flight for refusing the frisk:cheers:

golden_eagle

June 10th, 2008, 01:42 AM

Singapore Airlines cargo plane @ Mactan - Cebu International Airport

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3186/2557476268_7318c9fd9a.jpg

bustero

June 10th, 2008, 08:42 AM

45 min strange, why would the BOI care! It shouldn't be material in whether they allow a person to enter and leave the country so why should they bother with controlling it.

^^
Tiger flights.
Expect more foreign asian planes on the philippine skies, particularly domestic destinations as the Asian Open Sky takes effect in December 2008. That means, no more flight restriction to the Asian region. Seat allocation to Korea has just been quadrupled recently by RP-RK BATA. Japan and China are still in the negotiating table.

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of the ASEAN open skies for this December is allowed only between designated Premier Gateways (Clark for us) and other country's designated gateways, no domestic or secondary airports included in the meantime (subject to review or more probably politics). It's one reason I thought the move to designate Clark as the premier gateway was a sly move. Other's here think it's all for the best.

Sou-jiro

June 10th, 2008, 10:31 AM

How about the land down under? Is there enough traffic to support 77W in a three weekly basis?

traffic has increase as they fly here 5 times a day,...however i honestly dont think they would use they're future 773 here,.An A330 alone is used for Sydney & Melbourne in One round with weekday flight non stop to Sydney.

so no. i dont think..they do use 744 occasionally but thats quite rare now aday,..

i would love to be wrong though..i'd wanna see they're 777 here :D

I think Star Aliance is best but thats just my personal opinion.

I do Agree That PAL is best to join One World..though wont they have to compete with CX?..plus HK is very close to MNL so sky team wouldn't be bad either.I think star Alliance wouldn't suit PAL.I hope this pushes throough & not just a rumour. has a time frame been allocated?...i would thin they would look into this seriously until re fleeting is almost complete?

Sou-jiro

June 10th, 2008, 10:46 AM

Sky Harbor

June 10th, 2008, 12:02 PM

I think Star Aliance is best but thats just my personal opinion.

I do Agree That PAL is best to join One World..though wont they have to compete with CX?..plus HK is very close to MNL so sky team wouldn't be bad either.I think star Alliance wouldn't suit PAL.I hope this pushes throough & not just a rumour. has a time frame been allocated?...i would thin they would look into this seriously until re fleeting is almost complete?

That statement was kinda...self-contradicting. :lol:

I think PAL would want to get its bearings back first before even considering an alliance (this means returning to the Middle East, Europe and discontinued domestic, Asian and North American destinations). But yes, I still think that SkyTeam is best for PAL. PAL won't face so much competition from KE or CS as it would in Star Alliance (with industry heavyweights TG and SQ) or Oneworld (with heavyweights JL and CX).

manchowyin

June 10th, 2008, 03:53 PM

arianespace

June 10th, 2008, 05:01 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of the ASEAN open skies for this December is allowed only between designated Premier Gateways (Clark for us) and other country's designated gateways, no domestic or secondary airports included in the meantime (subject to review or more probably politics). It's one reason I thought the move to designate Clark as the premier gateway was a sly move. Other's here think it's all for the best.

If that is the case it aint open sky isn't it? However you are partly correct on that. The agreement is actually more than that. By 2009 there will be open sky for cargo traffic and that binds all members. Open sky begins at the capital city in 2011 and progressing to domestic points by 2015. Manila is so protective of PAL and Cebpac at NAIA that it designates Manila-Clark as the Capital Gateway, but some states for example Singapore opted to open everything by 2008. So basically PAL or CEBPAC can fly to Singapore from any proposed domestic point say Cagayan de Oro without restrictions. If this is so then Singapore should also fly Cagayan de Oro or Manila-NAIA without restrictions because open sky requires reciprocity. Therefore, the Philippine governments effort to promote Manila-Clark will be of naught when Singapore opts to fly Manila-NAIA. The governments foolishness went back to them eventually. That's why our politicians are negotiating how to minimize its impact on each aviation industry.

The Asian Open Sky Agreement follow these lines. (http://www.aadcp-repsf.org/docs/02-008-FinalReport.pdf) Note that there is still no definitive agreement on open sky. It is still evolving up to this minute, but the principles are laid already. Its just a matter of fair implementation that is currently being debated upon.

If you want to know what the basic policies are and the problem areas, read on.:)

xxxx
6. Policy Options
Moves towards Open Sky will involve taking up a range of individual policy options, each of
which will have its own impacts. The policy options apply to combination and pure cargo
services.
The most important policy options are:
• Removing investment and ownership controls;
• Permitting multiple designation;
• Removing route capacity controls;
• Relaxing restrictions on gateways; and
• Wet lease aircraft to be allowed within ASEAN.
These are changes, which are likely to have the largest impact on the ways the aviation
market works. Other policy options are:
• Relaxing fare restrictions;
• Granting 5th freedom, both within and beyond ASEAN;
• Allowing 7th freedom operations;
• Charter liberalisation;
• Enhancing market competition;
• Cargo liberalisation;
• Allowing domestic cabotage;
• Removing restrictions on ground handling; and removing doing business restrictions.
These options can be implemented on a sub regional basis, or on a whole of ASEAN basis.

7. Stages of Reform
7.1. Sub Regional Initiatives
These are considered first. One suggestion is to build on the emerging CLMV Open Sky
arrangements by admitting Thailand, and subsequently Brunei. This is partly based on the
importance of Thailand for aviation within the geographic areas. However, granted the
relative strength of the Thai airlines, a gradual entry is suggested.
A second subregion could be one based on Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines, with the
possible addition of Brunei. These countries are at a similar stage of airline industry
development.
The third sub region is based on countries which already have strong aviation sectors-
Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand, with the possible inclusion of Brunei. Many routes
amongst these countries are already liberalised.

7.2. Whole of ASEAN Reforms
A staged process of liberalisation for ASEAN as a whole is suggested. Three stages are
suggested:
Phase 1- commencing at the beginning of 2005, and continuing till the end of 2007
Phase 2-commencing at the beginning of 2008 and continuing till the end of 2010.
Phase 3- commencing at the beginning of 2011 and continuing till the end of 2012.
These phases allow for the achievement of the Road Map target of Open Sky by 2015,
allowing for a degree of flexibility in timing.
7.3. Key Aspects of the Phases
Phase 1- double designation, move to substantial ASEAN ownership; unlimited 3rd and 4th
freedom within ASEAN; and opening of secondary gateways.
Phase 2- Multiple designation; restricted 5th freedom beyond rights; completion of opening up
of gateways, remove restrictions on fares.
Phase 3 - Principal place of business for ownership; 5th freedom within ASEAN; possible 7th
freedom within ASEAN, charter liberalization.
Over the whole period, specific attention will be paid to market competition issues, especially
addressing code shares between airlines competing directly on routes. The key aspects
apply to both combination and pure cargo services.

xxx
9. Problems Areas
With a move to Open Sky, a number of problem areas could emerge. It is possible to address
them however:
There is a risk of anti competitive behaviour, such as predatory pricing and collusion.
Granted that competition policy is in its infancy in most ASEAN countries, an approach would
be to develop an ASEAN code of conduct for airlines.
Subsidies make it difficult for airlines to compete on equal terms. Subsidies may be
warranted, but it is important that they be transparent, and allocated on a basis which does
not distort competition. ASEAN guidelines could be developed.
The differing business and operating environments make it more difficult for some airlines to
compete than for others. Hence a gradual move to Open Sky is recommended.
Financial instability is a problem which currently affects many ASEAN airlines. While there
are no easy solutions to this problem, a staged process of liberalisation with time lines will
give airlines time to address their financial problems.
Managerial and technical skills availability differs widely amongst the countries of ASEAN.
Cross country investments, strategic alliances and cooperation will assist in the reduction of
differences.

arianespace

June 10th, 2008, 05:05 PM

traffic has increase as they fly here 5 times a day,...however i honestly dont think they would use they're future 773 here,.An A330 alone is used for Sydney & Melbourne in One round with weekday flight non stop to Sydney.

so no. i dont think..they do use 744 occasionally but thats quite rare now aday,..

i would love to be wrong though..i'd wanna see they're 777 here :D

Yes you are wrong. You'll be surprise to see the 77W fly down-under. Hey, I'm not saying it will be served by 77W, it will still be 333 service but it will fly there occasionally. Take my word for it.:)

kiretoce

June 10th, 2008, 05:09 PM

arianespace

June 10th, 2008, 06:24 PM

ASEAN-STOM to recommend signing of Multilateral Agreement on Full Liberalization of Air Freight Services (http://www.pia.gov.ph/asean/?m=2&r=&fi=p080529.htm&no=70)

Cebu City (29 May) -- ASEAN senior transport officials agreed in pushing for the recommendation to sign the ASEAN Multilateral Agreement on the Full Liberalization of Air Freight Services and Air Services as the three-day 25th ASEAN Senior Transport Officials Meeting (STOM) reached its conclusion today at the Mactan Shangri-la Resort and Spa in Lapulapu City, Cebu.

The senior transport officials among the 10-member ASEAN nations will endorse the signing of the ASEAN multilateral agreement to the ASEAN transport leaders who will be meeting during the 14th ASEAN Transport Ministers (ATM) Meeting in November, this year in Manila in time with the implementation of the regional integrated air transport services by December 2008.

The multilateral agreements affirms the policy for progressive implementation of full liberalization and integration of air services in ASEAN as laid down in the Action Plan for ASEAN Air Transport Integration and Liberalization adopted at the 10th ASEAN Transport Ministers Meeting on November 2004 in Phnom Penh, Vietnam.

The move to liberalize passenger and cargo air services in the ASEAN region is intrinsically crucial in achieving integrated ASEAN Economic Community by 2015 that will provide an essential component of the transport network to facilitate the movement of people and goods among the 10 ASEAN member-states and in establishing closer relations with ASEAN key external partners.

The multilateral agreements will likewise provide for an unlimited 5th freedom rights passenger services between capital cities in ASEAN.

The multilateral agreements will be signed on the desire of ASEAN to remove restrictions, on gradual basis, so as to achieve flexibility and capacity in the operation of air freight services and air services in ASEAN with a view to build a single unified aviation market by 2015.

MOU signing on cooperation in aircraft accident and investigations

This morning also witnessed the signing of the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on Cooperation Relating to Aircraft Accident and Incident Investigations among authorities of ASEAN member countries responsible for the investigation of aircraft accident and incident.

The MOU aims to enhance the capabilities and professionalism of their respective aircraft investigators, and strengthen, promote and develop cooperation to enhance aviation safety.

The signing of the MOU reaffirms the objective enshrined in Annex 13 to the Convention of International Civil Aviation (Chicago Convention) that the sole objective of the investigation of an aircraft accident or incident shall be the prevention of accidents and incidents and that it is not the purpose of the investigation activity to apportion blame or to provide a means of determining guilt.

Under the MOU, the participating countries will cooperate in aircraft accident and incident investigation, investigation training and sharing of information and expertise, consistent with the Standards and Recommended Practices, Aircraft Accident and Incident Investigation, contained in the Chicago Convention.

Among the salient provision of the MOU is that the participating country will offer assistance and the use of air safety investigation manpower, facilities and equipment to the other signatory country which may include expertise in the fields of air traffic services, engineering, operations flight recorders, human performance and management organization.

The signing of the MOU shows the common interest of the ASEAN countries in establishing a lasting framework for cooperation in the area of aircraft and incident investigation. (PIA-Cebu/FCR)

arianespace

June 10th, 2008, 10:37 PM

Fresh air talks planned with HK, the Netherlands by next month, planned talks with Japan, Australia, and Thailand underway (http://www.bworld.com.ph/BW061108/content.php?id=051)

THE PHILIPPINE air panel will hold talks with counterparts in Hong Kong by the end of the month and the Netherlands next month to seek additional flight frequencies, a Civil Aeronautics Board (CAB) official said.

CAB Deputy Executive Director Porvenir P. Porciuncula said in a phone interview yesterday that the government also plans talks with Japan, Australia, and Thailand, though it has yet to set a date for these negotiations.

"We will try to get more flights outside of Manila like Clark and Subic, and possibly even Cebu and Davao," Mr. Porciuncula said.

He said under the current agreement, Philippine carriers can fill up 13,000 seats for flights to Hong Kong from the Ninoy Aquino International Airport, and 2,300 seats for airports outside of Manila.

"It seems that the airlines can still manage to operate more flights. Tourism is one of the factors. You also have the economic attraction of China. Even if there are direct flights to China, Hong Kong would still have some attractions," Mr. Porciuncula explained.

Mr. Porciuncula said additional flights to the Netherlands are needed after German carrier Lufthansa Airlines stopped flying from Manila to Europe last March. KLM flies daily to Amsterdam, alternately using the Boeing 777 200 and 300 aircraft which can carry 327 and 425 passengers, respectively. "There is a requirement for more flights by KLM. We won’t know how many until the negotiations take place," Mr. Porciuncula said.

The Philippines also wants to take advantage of Japan’s new policy of opening up airports outside of Tokyo such as Nagoya, Fukuoka and Osaka. — Anna Barbara L. Lorenzo

^^
As I told you, PAL is adding flights down under while the rest of the world cuts frequency.:) Also, note on the last sentence. Can you guess which airline requested that route?

arianespace

June 10th, 2008, 11:53 PM

Introducing, the future of Asian Spirit Fleet. .

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/4/4/3/1354344.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/4/6/1/1320164.jpg
The XIAN MA 60

You will see 5 brand new MA 60 in Asian Spirit colors to do head on battle with ATR and Q400's on the Philippine skies starting next month. They will be replacing the YS-11 and de Havilland Dash 7-100 fleet, alternating with BAe-146 to Caticlan. Two aircraft will be stationed at MLA and CEB and one unit will be stationed at ZAM. This is gonna be exciting!:cheers:

The Xian MA60 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_MA60) is a turboprop-powered airliner made by China's Xi'an Aircraft Industrial Corporation under the China Aviation Industry Corporation I (AVIC I). The MA60 is a stretched version of the Xi'an Y7-200A and a close copy of the An-26 cargo plane (http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=37). The plane was first tested in 1993, and given its airworthiness certificate in 1998 from the Civil Aviation Administration of China. A year later, two MA60s were put into operation by Chang'an Airlines.

kalbongdad

June 11th, 2008, 04:08 AM

hmmmmm takot ako ....made in china....

Chrisvenz

June 11th, 2008, 04:29 AM

hmmmmm takot ako ....made in china....

:lol: nakow! cguro di naman lahat gawa sa china eh peke or may formalin:lol: good for Asian Spirit ni palitan na ang mga old turbo-prop planes nila.:banana:

"ZukiChirO"

June 11th, 2008, 09:11 AM

:hm::hm::hm:wla nabang Asian Spirit Plane na Lumalapag sa ZIA???:shifty::shifty::shifty:

Sou-jiro

June 11th, 2008, 09:37 AM

Yes you are wrong. You'll be surprise to see the 77W fly down-under. Hey, I'm not saying it will be served by 77W, it will still be 333 service but it will fly there occasionally. Take my word for it.:)

well just see its a bit early to tell i suppose but it would be nice...744 does come here one in a while plus the faact that Sydney flight are 5 x weekly was in increase...but 3 of these are via Melbourne as well so (two cities to fill up one A330 isnt thats big but yes...it may happen occasionally..plus the fact QF didnt even budge to change the 763 service to Manila to atleast A330
gives me doubts but its is obvious the there is a traffic increase though :)

Any plans for Asian spirit to get A320s?

is there anywhere in Mabuhay miles that actualy say how much point are required for certain destination if you were to redeem miles?...i've been cheking the websire..cant seem to get it? :weird:

bustero

June 11th, 2008, 10:14 AM

ty arianespace i'm hopefull but skeptical for ASEAN open skies deployment.

interesting part about the chinese airplanes, I once remember fred yao saying he thought there was a great opportunity for a domestic carrier to fly LCC operations using turboprops (specifically chinese ones because of their low capital costs , not sure about their CASM but since their props gotta be cheaper than jets), this was before SEAAir! and now it's here!

Sou-jiro

June 11th, 2008, 10:26 AM

ok lol i just found the answer on my 3rd question :D

wow PAL's fleet is steadily increasing including PALexpress..i think 39 aircrafts...cant wait for 777s

Sky Harbor

June 11th, 2008, 01:27 PM

Vigan city council to Lucio Tan: Open Vigan-Manila flights (http://www.gmanews.tv/story/100358/Vigan-city-council-to-Lucio-Tan-Open-Vigan-Mla-flight)

Vigan city council has asked businessman Lucio Tan to open a Philippine Air Lines flight at the seldom-used Vigan Airport.

Tan is an adopted son of Ilocos Sur since his Fortune Tobacco has its main factory in Vigan.

The request for Tan to open a Philippine Airlines flight in Vigan Airport was contained in a resolution that the city council passed recently.

Vice Mayor Franz Ranches said that PAL representatives already came to the airport in Mindoro to inspect the facilities and to see the possibility of using even a 50-seater plane for the Vigan-Manila flight.

Ranches said that the Vigan airport is as long as those in Bohol, Dipolog and Iloilo City so they saw nothing wrong in opening a PAL flight here.

The airport is usually used to land helicopters or the personal airplane of former Gov. Luis Chavit Singson.

If Mindoro Airport was a sleeping asset for the city of Vigan, Lucio Tan should be able to serve the city (partially, per the reasoning of the city government, to "relieve the boredom of traveling to Vigan). However, I don't know if it will be viable, given that Vigan has to compete with Laoag.

Also, the runway at the airport is only 1,045 meters long. The runways at Tagbilaran, Dipolog and especially Iloilo are longer than that in Vigan.

brightblade

June 11th, 2008, 05:25 PM

the oil crunch is really bothersome, i read in the papers today that cebu pacific will cut down its singapore route. Anyone who can confirm?

Rall

June 11th, 2008, 06:04 PM

Vigan city council to Lucio Tan: Open Vigan-Manila flights (http://www.gmanews.tv/story/100358/Vigan-city-council-to-Lucio-Tan-Open-Vigan-Mla-flight)

Vigan city council has asked businessman Lucio Tan to open a Philippine Air Lines flight at the seldom-used Vigan Airport.

Tan is an adopted son of Ilocos Sur since his Fortune Tobacco has its main factory in Vigan.

The request for Tan to open a Philippine Airlines flight in Vigan Airport was contained in a resolution that the city council passed recently.

Vice Mayor Franz Ranches said that PAL representatives already came to the airport in Mindoro to inspect the facilities and to see the possibility of using even a 50-seater plane for the Vigan-Manila flight.

Ranches said that the Vigan airport is as long as those in Bohol, Dipolog and Iloilo City so they saw nothing wrong in opening a PAL flight here.

The airport is usually used to land helicopters or the personal airplane of former Gov. Luis Chavit Singson.

diba merong MNL-Vigan flight before... or was it MNL-Laoag?
they stop that route because of some politicians.:ohno:
na sampal yata yong PAL employee...
it happen sometime Feb. 2006

"ZukiChirO"

June 11th, 2008, 06:31 PM

Gatchalian eyes new airline

By Elaine Ruzul S. Ramos

Plastics king William Gatchalian wants to go back to the airline business two decades after he sold Air Philippines to taipan Lucio Tan, who also owns Philippine Airlines.

Industry sources said Gatchalian had tapped close associate Sergio Ortiz-Luis as chairman for his new airline venture, while another ally, Miguel Varela, will sit as board director.

Ortiz-Luis confirmed the report but said talks were preliminary.

Ortiz-Luis, president of the Philippine Exporters Confederation, is also a director of Gatchalian’s Waterfront Group.

Gatchalian plans to make a comeback in the airline business on a personal capacity.

Ricky Ricardo of the Waterfront Group’s corporate affairs office issued a disclaimer that the businessman’s hotel and leisure company had nothing to do with the plans.

“As far as I know, the idea of going back to the airline business was never brought up in the Waterfront Group level. The group remains focused on its core business on hotels, leisure and services. We have exited the airline business a long time ago, and it makes more sense for us to continue staying out of that business,” said Ricardo.

Gatchalian in earlier interviews signified a continued interest in the airline business after he sold his shares in Air Philippines, which now flies missionary routes, or those not serviced by its bigger affiliate, Philippine Airlines.

Industry sources said Gatchalian’s interest might have further been stirred by the entry of another Filipino-Chinese, banker and fruit juice maker Alfredo Yao, into the airline business via low-cost carrier Asian Spirit, the country’s fourth-largest airline.

Yao is the owner of Zest-O Corp. and RC Cola. He also owns Philippine Business Bank and sits as director of Export and Industry Bank.

Donald Dee, who has been designated as chairman of Asian Spirit, confirmed rumors that Yao was in China to meet with traders for the acquisition of seven brand-new aircraft for the airline’s refleeting.

Dee, Ortiz-Luis and Varela are closely affiliated with the Philippine Chamber of Commerce and Industries.

Dee said the first phase of the refleeting program involved the acquisition of two Airbus A-320 for regional and long-haul domestic flights and another five 60-seater Jetcraft ideal for short distance flights.

He said the refleeting would start next month up to early 2009. The first batch of new aircraft will be delivered from June to July this year.

Dee added Asian Spirit had a fleet of more than 10 aircraft, most of them specially designed for short take-off and landing.

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