Airlines, Airplanes and Airports - Compiled Threads [Archive] - Page 66

jpdm

November 25th, 2009, 04:31 AM

KLM flies world's first "passenger flight on biofuel"

November 24, 2009, 1:58pm
Manila Bulletin

THE HAGUE, November 23, 2009 (AFP) - A Boeing 747, one of four engines powered by a 50-percent biokerosene mix, circled the Netherlands for an hour on Monday for what airline KLM called the world's first passenger flight using biofuel.

"This is technically feasible. We have demonstrated that it is possible," KLM chief executive officer Peter Hartman said after the flight, which took off and landed at Schiphol airport near Amsterdam.

"Government, industry and society at large must now join forces to ensure that we quickly gain access to a continuous supply of biofuel."

The flight had about 40 people on board, including Hartman, Economic Affairs Minister Maria van der Hoeven, the director of nature group WWF in the Netherlands, Johan van de Gronden, and a handful of journalists.

KLM spokeswoman Monique Matze told AFP that of the Boeing's four engines, one was powered by a mix of 50 percent sustainable kerosene and 50 percent normal fuel. The biofuel was manufactured from the camelina plant, sourced from a biotechnology company based in Seattle in the United States.

The test flight was also the first of any kind in Europe powered partly by sustainable biofuel, according to KLM.

"Of course, we compensated the footprint of transporting the fuel from the United States to here," added Matze, citing ongoing projects to reduce CO2 emissions.

KLM said its quest for biokerosene was conditional on forests, food and water sources not being jeopardized.

Matze said the company "dare not name any targets" for switching to biofuel for its commercial flights, saying "the difficulty now is the availability of biofuels."

Monday's flight, she said, was "the first step towards ensuring clean and sustainable air transport."

hybridace101

November 25th, 2009, 07:12 AM

How about CO? I always thought all of their 767s and 777s had PTVs with AVOD.

But they don't have 747s. In fact I've mentioned it before that the 747s of most carriers are the last to get refurbished if ever they do. AF, LH, TG and UA still have mainscreen movies for the 747s. Why do you think these 747s are the last to get refurbished whereas for PR, it was the first to get refurbished?

hikouki

November 25th, 2009, 08:04 AM

But they don't have 747s. In fact I've mentioned it before that the 747s of most carriers are the last to get refurbished if ever they do. AF, LH, TG and UA still have mainscreen movies for the 747s. Why do you think these 747s are the last to get refurbished whereas for PR, it was the first to get refurbished?

Oh, okay. I thought you meant the whole fleet...Anyway, both AF and TG have said that their 744s are on the way out. The AF 744s are assigned mostly to high-density low-yield routes and in fact, their first class sections have been gutted out years ago. Their 77Ws have taken over some of the former 744 routes. TG has expressed many times that they are searching for a 744 replacement. I just read on A.net that TG wants to lease some 77Ws in a few months' time just so they could retire their oldest 744s. They consume too much fuel, according to them. I don't know how long LH intends on holding on to their 744s but the 748i is just around the corner. PR will hold on to the 744s until at least 2015.:nuts: JAL, ANA, SQ, CX, KE are just some other carriers replacing their 744s with 77Ws (or other types) for longhaul.

With Cat II slapped on the country, I think it would still be a long while before PAL realizes that their 744s are outdated on the trans-Pac routes.:ohno:

hybridace101

November 25th, 2009, 06:31 PM

If it weren't for Cat2, I would bet PR would be finalising a deal to get an A380 and other long-haul widebody aircraft. It's too bad the 77Ws directly purchased will be deferred for another 4-5 years.

Just for fun, who can make a mock-up of the 77W in PR's retro livery?

ruralvillage

November 25th, 2009, 11:47 PM

P50-million automated system installed in RP airports (http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/231224/p50million-automated-system-installed-rp-airports)
By RONNIEL DE GUZMAN
November 25, 2009, 7:16pm
Manila Bulletin (http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/231224/p50million-automated-system-installed-rp-airports)

The country’s top aviation body has installed a cutting edge communications system, linking the Philippines with other countries to get the latest aeronautical and other relevant information critical to flight safety.

Dubbed as the Automated Aeronautical Information Service (AIS), the new facility has brought the country closer to achieving Category 1 status, two years after the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has moved the country one notch lower to Category 2.

Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines (CAAP) Director General Ruben F. Ciron said the new system will automatically update information in real time, reaching subscribers without the time lag associated with the old mode.

“The new system brought the CAAP closer to regaining its category 1 status,” said Ciron. “We have now one of the most advanced telecommunication systems and this would hopefully convinced the FAA of our serious concern to bring our aviation body at par with the world.”

The AIS facility, costing P50 million is fully automated and is capable of sending updates and new data to subscribers in a flash. It is housed at the CAAP compound in Pasay City and was put by the Energy Systems and Resources Inc. (ISRI), with the help of Frequentis, a European firm represented by Christian Troemer, Chief Regional Officer of the company.

The new AIS replaced a dated and decrepit system that broke down a few years ago and temporarily disconnected the Philippines with the rest of the International Civil Aviation Community.

In recent past, Air Transportation Office (ATO) (now switched to the CAAP) air communications experts were using typewriters and outmoded teletype in sending Notice-to-airmen (Notam) and other contents of aeronautical publications to all the members of the International Civil Aviation Organization.

Flight plans and the flow of critical data transmitted way ahead of flights leaving the Philippines could not be processed in advance, thus delaying international flights coming and going into the country.

These prompted authorities to facilitate the provision of needed funds to update the system. Consequently, an upgraded AFTN was put up and linked to the internet but still manually operated.

Present during the ribbon cutting ceremony were Ciron of the CAAP; Susan Tecson, Managing Director of ESRI; Consul Florian Brandl of Austria, Isabel Schmiedbauer, Commercial Attache.

For those unable to download them, hard copies of maps, charts and voluminous records of the AIP could also be obtained from the CAAP.

The AIP contains all there is to know about the status of the country’s airports, including maps, charts, route of flights, available navigational aids and their locations, ongoing constructions of airports and facilities and upgrading of other services.

Troemer said the Philippines is the first Asian country to have adopted the new automated system and would soon be followed by New Zealand, Australia, and Japan.

Fraulein

November 26th, 2009, 06:38 AM

Air China launch Manila from Mar 2010
http://airlineroute.net/2009/11/25/ca-pekmnl-launch/

As per 25NOV09 GDS timetable display, Air China is launching 3 weekly Beijing – Manila service with Boeing 737-800 from 27FEB10.

CA179 PEK2000 – 0055+1MNL 738 136
CA180 MNL0630 – 1110PEK 738 247

ianers_ianized

November 26th, 2009, 01:38 PM

77W service begins on November 24 (tomorrow).

Tom! Sayang... day-off ako... hindi ko sya m-plane spot!

KLM flies world's first "passenger flight on biofuel"

November 24, 2009, 1:58pm
Manila Bulletin

THE HAGUE, November 23, 2009 (AFP) - A Boeing 747, one of four engines powered by a 50-percent biokerosene mix, circled the Netherlands for an hour on Monday for what airline KLM called the world's first passenger flight using biofuel.

"This is technically feasible. We have demonstrated that it is possible," KLM chief executive officer Peter Hartman said after the flight, which took off and landed at Schiphol airport near Amsterdam.

"Government, industry and society at large must now join forces to ensure that we quickly gain access to a continuous supply of biofuel."

The flight had about 40 people on board, including Hartman, Economic Affairs Minister Maria van der Hoeven, the director of nature group WWF in the Netherlands, Johan van de Gronden, and a handful of journalists.

KLM spokeswoman Monique Matze told AFP that of the Boeing's four engines, one was powered by a mix of 50 percent sustainable kerosene and 50 percent normal fuel. The biofuel was manufactured from the camelina plant, sourced from a biotechnology company based in Seattle in the United States.

The test flight was also the first of any kind in Europe powered partly by sustainable biofuel, according to KLM.

"Of course, we compensated the footprint of transporting the fuel from the United States to here," added Matze, citing ongoing projects to reduce CO2 emissions.

KLM said its quest for biokerosene was conditional on forests, food and water sources not being jeopardized.

Matze said the company "dare not name any targets" for switching to biofuel for its commercial flights, saying "the difficulty now is the availability of biofuels."

Monday's flight, she said, was "the first step towards ensuring clean and sustainable air transport."

Going green, I support this movement, I hope this type of fuel flourishes in our aviation industry.

mwg12a

November 26th, 2009, 04:15 PM

Not related to any topics here but I guess "wala lang" I love the new interior on this new A330 business cabin and even in the economy class. Maybe it's the inviting colors of the background like the carpeting and seat upholstery. You know? bright colors are always attention getters..
Aeroflot buys new A-330 and in a few years B-767 will be written off.

New business class

http://images3.jetphotos.net/img/1/2/0/6/25345_1228662602.jpg

Economy class

http://www.avia.ru/photo/aeroflot_a330/IMG_1870.jpg

csc36869

November 26th, 2009, 04:20 PM

Natuloy ba ang lipad ng bagong plane ng PAL (777)?

May nabanggit ksi ung ksama ko sa work, hindi pa daw makakalipad un ksi may inaantay pa raw na pyesa. Ang nagsabi sa kanya ay isang mekaniko na ngwowork mismo sa PAL.

mwg12a

November 26th, 2009, 04:32 PM

^^^ pyesa? if something is missing in that aircraft, I don't think boeing would allow it to fly down to Manila knowing fully well that if ever it make it down to Manila, PAL would be dismayed for not being able to use their leased B777.

hybridace101

November 26th, 2009, 04:58 PM

Not related to any topics here but I guess "wala lang" I love the new interior on this new A330 business cabin and even in the economy class. Maybe it's the inviting colors of the background like the carpeting and seat upholstery. You know? bright colors are always attention getters..

It's pretty nice to see another side to Aeroflot. I've mentioned it before that it was notorious for not having IFE even on its widebodies. Now, the economy class on its A332s have a special treat.

mwg12a

November 26th, 2009, 05:44 PM

hybridace101

November 26th, 2009, 05:51 PM

Going back to the economy class seat on PR's 77W, did I see a LAN and USB port? I see something similar in SQ and EK and EK says that newer aircraft (i.e. A380) do have a USB port.

mwg12a

November 26th, 2009, 06:10 PM

I found this on PAL's website, the 747 new interior with Recaro seats.

http://www.philippineairlines.com/news/31oct_pals_jumbo_jets_new_look_unveiled.jsp

others i found..
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z170/midwestguy1/A-picture-of-the-refurbished-econom.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z170/midwestguy1/A-profile-view-of-the-new-econom-1.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z170/midwestguy1/A-widescreen-LCD-TV-screen-installe.jpg

hybridace101

November 26th, 2009, 06:24 PM

mwg12a

November 26th, 2009, 06:28 PM

I am not sure if that's a USB port. And yes, the economy class seats are slightly different in B777ERs

hikouki

November 27th, 2009, 02:34 AM

hikouki

November 27th, 2009, 02:38 AM

^^

Take a look at this pic: http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/eymarquez083/B777ER/IMG_0454.jpg . As we know the 77W has a slightly different coach class seat from the 744 with the former having something similar to SQ and EK. I'm talking about what you see on the lower left hand side of the seatback if that's a USB/LAN port. If that's the case, we have something CX doesn't: a way to plug-in our own media and watch it on the IFE system of the aircraft.

The 744 economy seats are by Recaro. Those on the 77W are by Weber. From that photo, it looks like PAL has those ports. But it is quite another thing if those ports are actually active.:nuts: Some airlines just have them on the seats but are deactivated to save on power, etc.:lol: Or maybe they haven't installed the necessary software.:ohno: Knowing PAL...:bash::lol:

What I want to know is if economy has mood lighting.

Sky Harbor

November 27th, 2009, 03:16 AM

At the very least, they could have picked two shades of blue. Or made blue the base color with some seats every now and then colored yellow or something else. They have been saying that the blue colors evoke the crystal clear waters or Philippine beaches. Yun daw ang theme nila. But in the end, the whole cabin looks dull and monotonous.

It certainly looks better than the drab gray of the ex-B6 A320s of Z2, or the blue-green leather seats of 5J. :okay:

I think though the Recaro seat covers would be better on these seats. The more color, the better.

seven13

November 27th, 2009, 03:43 AM

I think I would choose a single color than to be like MAS' multi-colored seats, I think TG has also those different colored seats

ianers_ianized

November 27th, 2009, 05:06 AM

^^^^ I wonder why PAL won't chose red in their interior instead of blue, because I know the shade of color affects our moods. Blue can be depressing or dull (although i know blue represents PEACE), green is actually more ideal(because it invokes calmness) but since the Philippine flag has red, blue, yellow and white in it, they should of urge more red with a slight blue and white shade, then the mantle for the headrest can be yellow.

At the very least, they could have picked two shades of blue. Or made blue the base color with some seats every now and then colored yellow or something else. They have been saying that the blue colors evoke the crystal clear waters or Philippine beaches. Yun daw ang theme nila. But in the end, the whole cabin looks dull and monotonous.

Red alerts attention and hightens emotion, while blue evokes calmness and relaxation (yup it can be dull and depressing but depends on the shade). I think they also choose blue to be in synonimous to their theme of "coastal beaches of the Philippines" and "Reflection of light in water" If they choose a color red shade, it would ruin the theme.

It certainly looks better than the drab gray of the ex-B6 A320s of Z2, or the blue-green leather seats of 5J. :okay:

I think though the Recaro seat covers would be better on these seats. The more color, the better.

I agree, the "reflection of light in water" theme is so appropriate for PAL and the country. Plus, the color is blue is everyone's favorite.

hikouki

November 27th, 2009, 08:01 AM

I think I would choose a single color than to be like MAS' multi-colored seats, I think TG has also those different colored seats

No person in his right mind will ever like the kuih lapis theme on the MH birds.:ohno:

I like TG's interiors. The purple, magenta and gold are true to their theme and are actually the three basic colors of their jumpee. Up front, the purple and magenta theme continue on.

I like SQ's new interiors best.:okay: The Givency seat covers on the 77W are warm and bright but not dizzyingly loud. Definitely not the monotonous monochrome blue.:ohno:

hikouki

November 27th, 2009, 08:06 AM

It certainly looks better than the drab gray of the ex-B6 A320s of Z2, or the blue-green leather seats of 5J. :okay:

I think though the Recaro seat covers would be better on these seats. The more color, the better.

There's no comparing a legacy carrier and a low-cost carrier. It is perfectly understandable that JetBlue and CebuPac chose monotonous leather seats for the sake of their cleaners and maintenance staff.

The generic Recaro cloth covers from the 744s are better than the blue of the 77W.

In the past, some of PAL's 742s had golden orange seat covers, IIRC.

Sky Harbor

November 27th, 2009, 08:24 AM

^^ Those are not even generic seat covers. The same seat covers are installed on PAL A330s. :lol:

hikouki

November 27th, 2009, 10:06 AM

^^ Those are not even generic seat covers. The same seat covers are installed on PAL A330s. :lol:

The seat covers/ upholstery on the PAL 744/330/320/319 are generic because they are not unique to PAL. PAL refers to them as evoking the waters and sandy beaches of the Phils as if designed exclusively for them when in fact the same seat covers are used in newly delivered A320s around the world.:nuts: I think Croatian or Bulgarian or some other Eastern European country has the same design, only the base color is gray. PAL's marketing was really very creative.

You can't call the SQ fabric as generic. They're uniquely Givenchy. And at least no one would dare copy MAS' kuih lapis theme.:lol:

hybridace101

November 27th, 2009, 11:31 AM

IsaganiZenze

November 27th, 2009, 01:37 PM

I think this is the only shot that i found of the inaugural flight of PAL's 777

taken by daryl chapman (http://www.flickr.com/photos/darylchapman/) from flickr

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/aLueZgAniZen/darylchapmanbauhinia.jpg

Quote: "The first commercial flight of PR's first 77W (RP-C7777) seen here overflying Hong Kong on her way back to Manila after operating PR300/301 to and from Hong Kong."

and from jetphotos.net, taken by Colin Parker (http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=460) (airteam images)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/aLueZgAniZen/30875_1259217850.jpg

Quote: "First revenue trip for the first 777 of Philippine Airlines. What a great registration to have too!"

still no cabin photos of inaugural flight...i'm sure it will pop up soon enough

boom_box

November 27th, 2009, 04:36 PM

^^ I'm kinda more like to get a picture of flight crew or flight deck on PR 77W while flying... ;)

sana meron sa inyo maka jumpseat dyan.. :D

hikouki

November 27th, 2009, 04:37 PM

When PAL finally gets their second 77W early next year, I wonder how utilization will look like.

mwg12a

November 27th, 2009, 05:45 PM

Red alerts attention and hightens emotion, while blue evokes calmness and relaxation (yup it can be dull and depressing but depends on the shade). I think they also choose blue to be in synonimous to their theme of "coastal beaches of the Philippines" and "Reflection of light in water" If they choose a color red shade, it would ruin the theme.

I agree, the "reflection of light in water" theme is so appropriate for PAL and the country. Plus, the color is blue is everyone's favorite.

You're right about the red color however in psychiatry a study has shown that blue is considered a depressing color especially if it's going towards the darker shade, it might have some relaxing effect to it but it is in terms of lowering down your mood. Bright green is very ideal so what they should have chosen is "blue-green" atleast to invoke calm and relaxation, after all, the ocean water are mostly bluegreen type of color.

reflection of light in water is really very fitting for PAL because it represents the country. I guess it just differ in whatever shade of blue was chosen. The ones chosen currently is the dull shade of blue. Never the less, I'm just glad that what PAL's interior now on B747 and the B777 is a step up from the last in terms of added amenities in the inflight entertainment.

hybridace101

November 27th, 2009, 06:45 PM

^^

Hence the term "blues."

Well, PR only offers barely 2 dozen video options in AVOD so the USB option will be a value added feature to let the user see media in his own library played in PR's IFE system.

So who agrees on the PR vs MH assessment of an airliners.net user?

Sky Harbor

November 27th, 2009, 06:58 PM

^^ Airpearl's opinion of PR is highly regarded by me particularly because his positive opinion of PR goes against typical A.Net thinking towards PAL. However, yes, the "Skittles" seat covers of MH really need to go.

sandwindstars

November 27th, 2009, 11:44 PM

^^

If you look closely, the business class seat covers on the refurbished 744s are similar in pattern to those in the pre-refurbished 744s, present A343s and older A320s.

Does RP-C8168 still feature the grey seat govers inherited from AC?

By the way, no offence to our MH friends but those seats are seriously an eye sore. You may want to read-on someone's trip report created 6 months ago: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/149032 . The bottomline, he thinks MH is overrated but PR is underrated.

Agree with Airpearl's opinion. Some of the airlines are overrated. The marketing of some airlines is overblown, and people tend to believe it. I've flown PR domestically a number of times, I found their interior very suitable and classy. Travelling can be very stressful and overpowering colours can add to the stress.

As for his comments about T2 Centennial, I've always thought it is one of the prettiest terminals I've seen from the outside to the inside. (Thanks to its French designers). I like the simplicity, airiness, brightness, white paint, steel and glass, use of plants. I remember several years ago, reading about Sao Paolo airport. They used ladies with soothing, voices, giving announcements in soft, low tones to lessen the stress levels being at the airport. That's the feeling I get in T2.

hikouki

November 28th, 2009, 02:52 AM

You're right about the red color however in psychiatry a study has shown that blue is considered a depressing color especially if it's going towards the darker shade, it might have some relaxing effect to it but it is in terms of lowering down your mood. Bright green is very ideal so what they should have chosen is "blue-green" atleast to invoke calm and relaxation, after all, the ocean water are mostly bluegreen type of color.

reflection of light in water is really very fitting for PAL because it represents the country. I guess it just differ in whatever shade of blue was chosen. The ones chosen currently is the dull shade of blue. Never the less, I'm just glad that what PAL's interior now on B747 and the B777 is a step up from the last in terms of added amenities in the inflight entertainment.

Look at the new Garuda livery. Only blue is used for the tail paint but different shades give it a "wing over undulating water" look. There's so much one can do with only one color if mulitple shades are used. PAL could have used various shades of blue to give the cabin a more dynamic look. But monotone seems to be their favorite.:nuts:

hybridace101

November 28th, 2009, 03:51 AM

Are the KL seats featured here from the same manufacturer as those in PR: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/157297/ ?

Sou-jiro

November 28th, 2009, 05:52 AM

do you guys think PALs A330s have an even little change of being refurbished in near future?...thouh they tend to use it alot domestically I tend to lean towards NO?...what about the A340s? is this definitely cancelled and ruled out because it current situation PAL is in?

hybridace101

November 28th, 2009, 06:12 AM

hybridace101

November 28th, 2009, 06:40 AM

To think about it, DL will not only be the world's largest airline, it is also set to have the most diverse fleet in the industry. After the operating certificates are consolidated, they will only lack the A318, A321, A340 and A380 in order to represent all the western commercial mainline fleet available. If I were DL, it would make good business sense to sell some of these types off because of the training and dedicated maintenance costs that will be incurred by having a more diverse fleet. In other words, it's not efficient.

Sky Harbor

November 28th, 2009, 06:43 AM

^^ The oldest DC-9s are being retired, in addition to the Saab 340.

oninBadz

November 28th, 2009, 06:58 AM

^^ The oldest DC-9s are being retired, in addition to the Saab 340.

speaking of DC-9,how about those former CEB's what's goin' to happen with them?are they bound for scraps? afaik they're still parked near LBC's hangar.:)

Sou-jiro

November 28th, 2009, 07:06 AM

hehe those Saab 340s are still quite abundant in SYD one aircraft I rarely see are B717s

I wish they dont scrap thos 5j DC-9s but just store them in museum or in a park...

...too bad the A330 will remain the way they are, ow well well just see how Aircraft utilasation changes when the 2nd 773 comes in.

hikouki

November 28th, 2009, 07:44 AM

^^

I doubt it. I think the change of seat covers from dark blue to the ones similar to the A320s is far a change as one can get. That's why I want the A343s flown into SYD as their 2 front rows offer more comfort than the A330s. With the recession at hand, I question the reinstatement of PR112/113. If they didn't reinstate them, the A343s would definitely have more room for SYD and MEL.

As for refurbishment of the A343s, Cat2 may have changed the game knowing there aren't that many A343s in the fleet. I'm thinking they are the busiest aircrafts and "understaffed" among themselves in the fleet.

Any updates on what RP-C8168, if the covers they use are still AC?

There have been strong rumors that RP-C8168 will be fitted with the old style seats from their old inventory.

If they can manage to do this on one of only five of the premier widebodies they use on their flagship longhaul routes, what more with the A330s that do only domestic and regional flying?

alcogoodwin

November 28th, 2009, 09:30 AM

Incident: Philippine Airlines A343 near Vancouver on Nov 5th 2009, lightning strike
By Simon Hradecky, created Thursday, Nov 26th 2009 21:51Z, last updated Thursday, Nov 26th 2009 21:55Z

A Philippine Airlines Airbus A340-300, registration RP-C3434 performing flight PR-106 from Manila (Philippines) to Vancouver,BC (Canada), was on approach to Vancouver descending through about 12000 feet about 50nm west of Vancouver, when the aircraft was struck by a lightning. The crew continued the approach to runway 08R however was forced to go around from about 1900 feet due to a significant bird strike event to a preceding departure, see Incident: Air Canada B763 at Vancouver on Nov 5th 2009, bird strike. The airplane landed safely on runway 08R on a second approach 15 minutes after aborting the first approach.

The Canadian TSB reported, that the outer left hand engine's thrust reverser lower cowl had received lightning damage and the outer left hand engine's #2 fire bottle had discharged. The damage was temporarily repaired, the fire bottle replenished and the airplane released for the return flight to Manila for final repairs.

alcogoodwin

November 28th, 2009, 09:31 AM

arianespace

November 28th, 2009, 12:50 PM

^^

I think it was Virgin Atlantic that made that historic step in using biofuel long way back in February. The news can be seen here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7261214.stm). It was followed by Air New Zealand some months later in consortium with Boeing.

But Airbus 380 was the first plane to fly using bio fuel mixed having flew from its base at Filton UK to Toulouse, France for a 900 km journey using Rolls Royce engine and Shell made bio mixed fuel.

Of course we all know that Shell is heading the technological research other than it being a Netherlands based company. :)

hybridace101

November 28th, 2009, 01:10 PM

There have been strong rumors that RP-C8168 will be fitted with the old style seats from their old inventory.

If they can manage to do this on one of only five of the premier widebodies they use on their flagship longhaul routes, what more with the A330s that do only domestic and regional flying?

That's what makes me nervous if I have to take PR, there's a 20% chance your transpacific flight won't have new features. That's why I hope this will be the lease on the RP-C8168 won't be renewed next time.

arianespace

November 28th, 2009, 01:24 PM

And cutting the two flight frequency out of Canada? Don't you know that they were tied?

hikouki

November 28th, 2009, 01:25 PM

That's what makes me nervous if I have to take PR, there's a 20% chance your transpacific flight won't have new features. That's why I hope this will be the lease on the RP-C8168 won't be renewed next time.

I've heard from various sources, albeit this was prior to the completion of the reconfig, that LAX almost always gets RP-C7471~3. RP-C7475 and 8168 only fly to LAX when none of the former three are available. This is because PAL has more passengers to LAX, and it is supposedly a more "premium" market than SFO. I don't know if they still do this today. But if true, then you have less than 20% chance of getting the ugly duckling if flying to/ from LAX.

hikouki

November 28th, 2009, 01:26 PM

And cutting the two flight frequency out of Canada? Don't you know that they were tied?

Does this lease run until 2015 (when PAL said it plans to start retiring the 744s)?

hikouki

November 28th, 2009, 01:46 PM

Uh-oh, here come the tight seats!

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4602859/
(Reply #31)

"...3-4-3 is a killer for N. Amercia flights from MNL. I spent and hour and a half on it and I waanted out, seats are darn narrow....especially because I had just come off the 3-3-3 on SQ's 77W! Some guy had to be upgraded to J because he couldn't fit in a Y seat..."

jogavilz

November 28th, 2009, 02:14 PM

hello everyone!!! what's the difference between PR's Business Class Unrestricted with Business Class restricted? are there differences in inflight services? thanks :)

hybridace101

November 28th, 2009, 02:25 PM

Well, let me tell you I took EK's 77Ws before and I found the 3-4-3 configuration pretty tight. Lucky I was in an aisle seat and I always make sure of that, unless it is the bulkhead seat. It's a good thing PR doesn't charge for seat preferences, unlike other airlines I know of.

Because of fuel costs, they seriously have to put a surcharge on balikbayan boxes or better yet, open a dedicated cargo route or have those boxes sent separately on another cargo flight. It will be less worrisome for the passengers to think about customs clearance.

The only things going for a 77W nonstop westbound is that there are 55 less passenger seats than the 744s. That means 110 less balikbayan boxes et al. Also, the 77W can travel 600+ miles further than the 744.

PR I think competes in terms of volume (quantity over quality, sad to say). Having said that, others are going the trend of a 3-4-3, KL and AF for instance now have that trend and EY is losing its edge to EK in terms of seating by introducing 3-4-3 in its 77Ws pretty soon. Bottomline: it's not just PR.

Back then, I think they managed to do non-stop westbound flights but that was when I think the A342s were in the fleet.

Why is PR so generous in terms of allowing balikbayan boxes to go inflight? And on a cultural question, howabout YVR? Aren't balikbayan boxes from there and the rest of Canada a novelty as they are from Pinoys in California?

hybridace101

November 28th, 2009, 02:28 PM

hello everyone!!! what's the difference between PR's Business Class Unrestricted with Business Class restricted? are there differences in inflight services? thanks :)

I think the restrictions have more to do with changes to your date of travel. That is if you want to amend your travel plans, you are more likely to pay more charges by using a restricted business class ticket. The charges, if ever there are on an unrestricted business class ticket are minimal; think of the unrestricted ticket as the cost to change your mind at anytime. Promo tickets on business class tickets are almost always restricted business class tickets. Furthermore, you may also be restricted in terms of the miles that you can earn.

Service-wise though, it's pretty much the same. I recommend that you purchase the restricted ticket if you are absolutely certain about your travel plans.

jogavilz

November 28th, 2009, 02:57 PM

thanks for the clarification! i thought that baggage allowance is also a factor in the fare difference. and since it's the holiday season, i think business class will be a better option than economy since the price difference is smaller than non-peak season.

arianespace

November 28th, 2009, 03:12 PM

Does this lease run until 2015 (when PAL said it plans to start retiring the 744s)?

^^
I hope not.

PAL tried cutting the 747 lease when it expired last year to save on cost but ACA said they have to surrender the rights too. Clever eh?

From my point of view, PAL needs the two slots more than Air Canada that is why the plane is still with them. I hope the next negotiation with the Canadian government would give them more access before 2015. The last time they did, they give only 1 to PR totaling 5 frequency a week. Add 2 from Air Canada's right equals daily frequency to Vancouver. The rationale apparently were, no demand and ACA is not using the service. So its either PAL would lease all the slots that belong to ACA to double its capacity or content themselves with their rights. But for now, that is the way it is.

By the way, the first retirement of the 744 is scheduled on 2017, coinciding with the arrival of its replacement. Could it be the A380 or the A350 is anyone's guess. But if you asked me my bet is on the A380. Four of them to be exact. Even if there are no orders yet. :)

hybridace101

November 28th, 2009, 03:19 PM

^^

My bet is the A380 as well. As I said, PR competes more on quantity, not necessarily quality not to say that in-flight service is poor.

I have to agree that they need the slots to Canada, especially with Cat2 slapped on the Philippines that will disallow PR from using its 77W there. I'm hoping they can use their 77W to fly to YYZ (with the hopes of a non-stop flight if I am correct in my guess that balikbayan boxes aren't that big a deal in Canada) or those YVR flights that don't go continue on to LAS.

One reason why I preferred the A346 over the 77W is that up until last year, a majority of PR's mainline fleet is manufactured by Airbus. It would help PR save on training costs especially since I hear that it uses a fly-by-wire approach. You know how to fly 1, you can fly other aircraft of the same generation from Airbus. But more importantly, I prefer Airbus over Boeing for widebodies is because of the 2-4-2 configuration - you're always 1 seat away from the aisle.

boom_box

November 28th, 2009, 04:41 PM

^^ That's one of the main benefits of Airbus philosophy. Training from A320 to any Airbus wide body saves a lot of airlines training cost.

But as others said, A380 is a sure bet or yet the A350 series is the answer and take note PR does also prefer Airbus financial flexibilities when buying an aircraft rather than Boeing's hard and strict policy. It's no wonder LT would likely to prefer on Airbus side.

BTW.. are those current PR 77W pilots are probably former 747-400 crew that are trained to fly 77W?

hybridace101

November 28th, 2009, 04:53 PM

hikouki

November 28th, 2009, 04:56 PM

...

Why is PR so generous in terms of allowing balikbayan boxes to go inflight? And on a cultural question, howabout YVR? Aren't balikbayan boxes from there and the rest of Canada a novelty as they are from Pinoys in California?

I think the nonstop flight and the balikbayan boxes are the only advantage PAL could claim against their competitors. IIRC, NWA only allows one balikbayan box?

hikouki

November 28th, 2009, 05:00 PM

^^
I hope not.

PAL tried cutting the 747 lease when it expired last year to save on cost but ACA said they have to surrender the rights too. Clever eh?

From my point of view, PAL needs the two slots more than Air Canada that is why the plane is still with them. I hope the next negotiation with the Canadian government would give them more access before 2015. The last time they did, they give only 1 to PR totaling 5 frequency a week. Add 2 from Air Canada's right equals daily frequency to Vancouver. The rationale apparently were, no demand and ACA is not using the service. So its either PAL would lease all the slots that belong to ACA to double its capacity or content themselves with their rights. But for now, that is the way it is.

By the way, the first retirement of the 744 is scheduled on 2017, coinciding with the arrival of its replacement. Could it be the A380 or the A350 is anyone's guess. But if you asked me my bet is on the A380. Four of them to be exact. Even if there are no orders yet. :)

ACA is pretty consistent. Didn't they use the same reasoning with SQ after they requested to up their thrice weekly SIN-ICN-YVR? Of course, this was way before the oil crisis and financial slump. In the end they cut the flights altogether.

^^

...

By the way, the first retirement of the 744 is scheduled on 2017, coinciding with the arrival of its replacement. Could it be the A380 or the A350 is anyone's guess. But if you asked me my bet is on the A380. Four of them to be exact. Even if there are no orders yet. :)

2017. I imagine that their new interiors would have been prehistoric by then.:lol: Right now, their AVOD is pretty basic and the Mabuhay seats are not really cutting-edge technology.:nuts:

hikouki

November 28th, 2009, 05:04 PM

^^
...

By the way, the first retirement of the 744 is scheduled on 2017, coinciding with the arrival of its replacement. Could it be the A380 or the A350 is anyone's guess. But if you asked me my bet is on the A380. Four of them to be exact. Even if there are no orders yet. :)

^^

My bet is the A380 as well. As I said, PR competes more on quantity, not necessarily quality not to say that in-flight service is poor.

...

Well, the A380-900 ought to be ready by then, with all those balikbayan boxes they need to load.

Can the present A380-800 do MNL-US nonstop both ways year-round? CX won't even consider it in its present form.

hybridace101

November 28th, 2009, 05:06 PM

The nonstop flight is only going to the US. Hence with the leg coming from the US, PR loses that advantage.

hikouki

November 28th, 2009, 05:06 PM

^^

The things which I think are standing between PR and the A380 are a) Cat2 and b) we don't have an A380-ready airport yet. From what I', reading, I can't see CRK sticking to its plans for over a hundred jetways where the published details of the expanded terminal will have only 1 jetway. So much for what should be the "premier gateway" to the Philippines.

I find all this talk of a new airport at Clark quite funny...I mean they can't even open a new terminal (tsk, tsk, T3), and they keep talking about a completely new airport, probably even necessitating a high-speed rail link to Manila!:lol:

hikouki

November 28th, 2009, 05:08 PM

The nonstop flight is only going to the US. Hence with the leg coming from the US, PR loses that advantage.

Hmm...not quite. Eastbound it is nonstop. Westbound it is nonstop, too when loads are light. With a full load, there is a refueling stop in GUM. Passengers, I believe do not have to disembark.

On other carriers, even at NWA, you have to change planes somewhere, right? It is a scheduled stop, at the very least.

hybridace101

November 28th, 2009, 05:26 PM

swahi

November 28th, 2009, 05:45 PM

^^
My friend came back from San Francisco last September, and didnt stop over at Guam. when I returned from LA on Oct 13, my 744 (the one not refurbished) also didnt stop over at Guam, with PAL claiming a light load, but the plane was at least 3/4 full. Because Manila's runway opens at 330am, our LA departure had to be delayed by a few hours so that we would arrive Manila after 330am from the regular scheduled arrival of around 6am.

Yes, if ever there is a Guam stopover, which happened with my flight in 2008, we don't go down from the plane.

hybridace101

November 28th, 2009, 05:49 PM

Definitely this Christmas season we can't count on that happening, especially with a lot going home with their balikbayan boxes from California.

arianespace

November 28th, 2009, 07:23 PM

^^
ACA is pretty consistent. Didn't they use the same reasoning with SQ after they requested to up their thrice weekly SIN-ICN-YVR? Of course, this was way before the oil crisis and financial slump. In the end they cut the flights altogether.

2017. I imagine that their new interiors would have been prehistoric by then.:lol: Right now, their AVOD is pretty basic and the Mabuhay seats are not really cutting-edge technology.:nuts:

That is also the same tack they used against Emirates.

Well, at least they have decent legacy service, while not competing head on the prime markets serviced like SQ and CX. PR's thrust has been well defined now and its target market identified, The OFW's. From now on they will settle on a realistic bi-class service. Just like the saying "Classy yet not expensive" or shall we say "Simple yet elegant".

Well, the A380-900 ought to be ready by then, with all those balikbayan boxes they need to load.

Can the present A380-800 do MNL-US nonstop both ways year-round? CX won't even consider it in its present form.

Yes it can. As I said previously, Airbus made presentations about it even if PAL carries 600 passengers but I think they will settle around 550 max.

I don't know if these has been shared already. Don't you know that Gecas triple seven were meant for the Australian market and they don't have the range to travel westward to Manila from LAX on some times of the year with the configurations it had and having loads of Balikbayan boxes? However, those coming in 2012 can as they are meant for transpac flight and they were apparently configured on 3-3-3 meant for double daily ops at the US West Coast. Maybe fewer pax. made it worked. What I'm not sure of if these specifications has been changed :)

The nonstop flights westbound are usually the exception rather than the rule and the GUM stopovers are scheduled. The flights from California mind you are rarely light. But I am wondering, am I right in my presumption that balikbayan boxes aren't that common or second nature to Pinoys returning from Canada?

I may also think with the 77Ws, PR may have a better chance at a nonstop flight both ways from SEA, ORD, maybe JFK as I think balikbayan boxes aren't that popular culture in those areas, unless I am wrong. On top of that passenger loads aren't expected to be filled-up as much as those going to SFO, LAX or SAN.

You must be kidding!

Balikbayan box is already a way of life. Its a trait we Filipinos share no matter where you came from in the Philippines and no matter where you are returning from abroad be it in America, Europe or the Middle East, unless of course you didn't grow here. In that case you surely have a different attitude of looking at it, or probably you don't have relatives here or have plenty of wealthy ones.

And unless PR decides to go to those places you mentioned, except SEA they either have to get the 200LR or the 345 which is uneconomical for them to operate, or stop at Vancouver and get more 5th freedom rights from Canada. From the way things are PR going ORD or JFK will have to fly direct or stop in YVR . For Toronto, they have to go either direct or fly to LAX, SEA or SFO assuming we are on Cat 1. Either way, its not gonna happen as they are not crazy enough to operate ultra-longhaulers. :)

hybridace101

November 28th, 2009, 07:37 PM

^^

If balikbayan boxes are a way of life regardless of where Filipinos work in, why is YVR-MNL is consistently nonstop while SFO or LAX-MNL are usually forced to stop midway? Keep in mind that YVR-MNL is the second leg of a flight originating from LAS so the flight would usually be filled-up with passengers originating from both LAS and YVR. The common theme among them - they all cross the transpacific flights and should have balikbayan boxes.

ianers_ianized

November 29th, 2009, 12:35 AM

hybridace101

November 29th, 2009, 01:49 AM

ryanr

November 29th, 2009, 03:23 AM

Don't forget that PAL still had a long standing order for Boeing 747-400s from the 90s. This offered some leverage in PAL choosing the 77W as these orders were converted into the 77Ws.

hikouki

November 29th, 2009, 03:53 AM

The nonstop flights westbound are usually the exception rather than the rule and the GUM stopovers are scheduled. The flights from California mind you are rarely light. But I am wondering, am I right in my presumption that balikbayan boxes aren't that common or second nature to Pinoys returning from Canada?

I may also think with the 77Ws, PR may have a better chance at a nonstop flight both ways from SEA, ORD, maybe JFK as I think balikbayan boxes aren't that popular culture in those areas, unless I am wrong. On top of that passenger loads aren't expected to be filled-up as much as those going to SFO, LAX or SAN.

Of course the GUM stops are scheduled in that they are written down on the timetables! But when I said "scheduled stop," I was referring to a somewhat technical term that some airlines use to refer to stopovers that will happen no matter what. NWA's stop at KIX from Detroit to MNL is an example. They will never overfly that place. GUM on the other hand can be overflown during favorable conditions, so it is a "technical stop" that is shown on schedules, but not quite the "scheduled stop" that KIX is.

hikouki

November 29th, 2009, 03:54 AM

hikouki

November 29th, 2009, 04:05 AM

^^

Yes it can. As I said previously, Airbus made presentations about it even if PAL carries 600 passengers but I think they will settle around 550 max.

If the A388 in its present form can do the mission that PAL wants, I wonder if what sort of advantages the A389 or the A388R can provide PAL. Which points can the latter two reach and how much more cargo can it carry?

^^

...

I don't know if these has been shared already. Don't you know that Gecas triple seven were meant for the Australian market and they don't have the range to travel westward to Manila from LAX on some times of the year with the configurations it had and having loads of Balikbayan boxes? However, those coming in 2012 can as they are meant for transpac flight and they were apparently configured on 3-3-3 meant for double daily ops at the US West Coast. Maybe fewer pax. made it worked. What I'm not sure of if these specifications has been changed :)

...

Interesting point. I was actually thinking that if PAL were smart, they would re-evaluate their seating layout on the 77Ws prior to having the last batch of four manufactured for delivery.

But OTOH, why would PAL complicate their fleet with two different layouts for a single aircraft type? Not as if the fleet were large enough anyway. Imagine that now, you have a 20% (or less) chance of being on the ugly duckling on a trans-Pac flight if it so happens that RP-C8168 is the only one available to do the flight. It would tend to "dilute" your service, right? I'm not quite sure an airline could care less that their passengers are sitting say on the tight seats of RP-C7777 with a stopover somewhere than on the spacious layout of RP-C7773 (supposing this is the reg of the 3rd 77W congfigured 3-3-3). All they care about is getting the passengers to their destinations which is what a ticket says.

An A.netter also mentioned the 77Ws of PAL might not be alble to make it nonstop year-round.

^^

...
Balikbayan box is already a way of life. Its a trait we Filipinos share no matter where you came from in the Philippines and no matter where you are returning from abroad be it in America, Europe or the Middle East, unless of course you didn't grow here. In that case you surely have a different attitude of looking at it, or probably you don't have relatives here or have plenty of wealthy ones.

And unless PR decides to go to those places you mentioned, except SEA they either have to get the 200LR or the 345 which is uneconomical for them to operate, or stop at Vancouver and get more 5th freedom rights from Canada. From the way things are PR going ORD or JFK will have to fly direct or stop in YVR . For Toronto, they have to go either direct or fly to LAX, SEA or SFO assuming we are on Cat 1. Either way, its not gonna happen as they are not crazy enough to operate ultra-longhaulers. :)

True. Wherever you go, if you happen to be on a PAL flight, you will always encounter Pinoys begging to check-in with you so they can share with your luggage allowance in the hope they won't get charged for excess luggage.

hikouki

November 29th, 2009, 04:06 AM

mwg12a

November 29th, 2009, 04:29 AM

They say PR chose Boeing over Airbus because of fuel efficiency. I think they chose Boeing over Airbus has to do with the fact that the former can handle more passengers. As I mentioned, Airbus aircraft only have a 2-4-2 configuration while Boeing has a 3-4-3 configuration.

I would be inclined to think that it is due to the overall new generation technology, efficiency and reliability that compelled PR to advance in this type of widebodied aircraft into their fleet after all, B777ER holds the longest single nonstop flying range among all other newer generation aircraft technology to date at 16 hours or so I believe. As far as I know even the new A380s are not capable to fly as far as B777ER can. I believe they had this in their minds prior to Cat2 ratings on NAIA for their transpacific flights.

I would think the seating configuration and features can always be altered depending on what specifications an airline company ordered from Boeing so it could have not been just that albeit it is part of it and ofcourse what reasons other forumers above had mentioned already.

Sky Harbor

November 29th, 2009, 04:30 AM

^^ That's the 77L (777-200LR), not the 77W (777-300ER).

mwg12a

November 29th, 2009, 04:36 AM

^^^^ Oh, I was thinking ER stands for an EXTENDED RANGE, I could of mixed them up then... So I guess PAL ordered and now have the B777Ws then...I'm not familiar with "W" i guess.

hybridace101

November 29th, 2009, 04:38 AM

^^
Let's say the pending 744 deposits aren't a factor. Would PR still lean in favour of the Airbus?

For everyone's future reference, here are some great circle distance facts from gpsvisualizer.com on MNL's existing routes with western cities:

SFO-MNL 6064 nm
LAX-MNL 6342 nm
YVR-MNL 5697 nm
AMS-MNL 5620 nm

What's even striking about AMS-MNL is that if balikbayan boxes are a key feature of returning pinoys, we have to consider that AMS-MNL flies over land which puts more pressure on an aircraft's performance than flights over the sea.

Who knows what the range of the A389 will be like?

It may appear that PR will lean towards Boeing widebodies and Airbus narrowbodies in the future. I hope I'm wrong because the Boeing aircrafts are more crammed per row than the airbus. For all the talk on the A380s, there is still the 748 out there.

Who thinks that it won't be far fetched that there will be such a thing as the 777-300LR?

Sky Harbor

November 29th, 2009, 04:55 AM

^^ The 777 is nearing the end of its development, and will eventually be replaced by variants of the 787.

^^^^ Oh, I was thinking ER stands for an EXTENDED RANGE, I could of mixed them up then... So I guess PAL ordered and now have the B777Ws then...I'm not familiar with "W" i guess.

ER does stand for "Extended Range". :sleepy:

hybridace101

November 29th, 2009, 05:00 AM

^^

772 - (Regional) 777-200
773 - (Regional) 777-300
77E - Extended Range 777-200 or 777-200ER
77W - Extended Range 777-300 or 777-300ER
77L - (ultra) Long Range 777-200 or 777-200LR

hikouki

November 29th, 2009, 05:13 AM

^^
...

Who thinks that it won't be far fetched that there will be such a thing as the 777-300LR?

^^ The 777 is nearing the end of its development, and will eventually be replaced by variants of the 787.

I think Boeing right now is proposing an improved 77W with a lighter wing(?).

Capacity-wise, I think only the 789 (and the yet-to-be launched 787-10) can match the 772/77E/77L. This is the reason why Boeing is proposing an improvement to the existing 77W design. The A350 program is more of a 777 family competitor than a threat versus the 787.

hikouki

November 29th, 2009, 05:21 AM

I would be inclined to think that it is due to the overall new generation technology, efficiency and reliability that compelled PR to advance in this type of widebodied aircraft into their fleet after all, B777ER holds the longest single nonstop flying range among all other newer generation aircraft technology to date at 16 hours or so I believe. As far as I know even the new A380s are not capable to fly as far as B777ER can. I believe they had this in their minds prior to Cat2 ratings on NAIA for their transpacific flights.

I would think the seating configuration and features can always be altered depending on what specifications an airline company ordered from Boeing so it could have not been just that albeit it is part of it and ofcourse what reasons other forumers above had mentioned already.

Some airlines will willingly pick an inferior aircraft if the the price is right. Iberia chose the A346 over the 777 family because 1) Airbus offered a lower price, and 2) fringe benefits (maintenance and training), and above all 3) performance/ dispatch reliability guarantee for which Iberia received $$$ from Airbus in compensation for the less than 98% performance by the A346s.

PAL has very good relations with Airbus. So I don't see why PAL would ditch a very good offer unless they already stand to forfeit millions of dollars in deposits. The A340-600 had a sales mission to MNL some years ago.

I believe Airbus offered CebuPac a sweet deal leading to 5J ditching a Boeing contract for 717s at the very last minute. Airbus offered much more than just low-priced planes because they know the 717s were much suited to 5J's specs at some airports.

mwg12a

November 29th, 2009, 05:22 AM

^^ The 777 is nearing the end of its development, and will eventually be replaced by variants of the 787.

ER does stand for "Extended Range". :sleepy:

Yes, i'm aware of the new variant which is 787. And I mixed up the flying range capabilities of (ultra) Long Range and ER, I guess I didn't make it clear when I quoted the words.

hybridace101

November 29th, 2009, 05:36 AM

I think Boeing right now is proposing an improved 77W with a lighter wing(?).

Capacity-wise, I think only the 789 (and the yet-to-be launched 787-10) can match the 772/77E/77L. This is the reason why Boeing is proposing an improvement to the existing 77W design. The A350 program is more of a 777 family competitor than a threat versus the 787.

But how much will that improve the 77W to warrant more frequent westbound flights between SFO/LAX and MNL?

hikouki

November 29th, 2009, 06:28 AM

But how much will that improve the 77W to warrant more frequent westbound flights between SFO/LAX and MNL?

Well, boeing hasn't come out with the specs of an improved 77W, but a lighter wing will definitely translate to more range or improved flying capabilities. After all, they're positioning this plane as their A350 competitor, as mentioned.

Mithril Cloud

November 29th, 2009, 06:45 AM

Airplanes @ NAIA

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/ryucloud/naia_pspot_01_mc.jpg
Philippine Airlines A330-301 RP-C3336

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/ryucloud/naia_pspot_02_mc.jpg
Singapore Airlines B777-212ER 9V-SQM

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/ryucloud/naia_pspot_03_mc.jpg
Philippine Airlines A320-200 RP-C8605

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/ryucloud/naia_pspot_04_mc.jpg
Philippine Airlines B747-400 RP-C8168

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/ryucloud/naia_pspot_05_mc.jpg
RP-C3336 taking off

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/ryucloud/naia_pspot_06_mc.jpg
Emirates B777-31H/ER A6-EBD

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/ryucloud/naia_pspot_07_mc.jpg
Singapore Airlines B777-212ER 9V-SVD
MNG Airlines A300C4-605R TC-MNV
Deer Jet Gulfstream IV B-8080

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/ryucloud/naia_pspot_08_mc.jpg
Philippine Airlines A320-200 RP-C8610
China Airlines B737-800 B-18610

kiretoce

November 29th, 2009, 06:58 AM

^^ Interesting to see Turkey's MNG Airlines (cargo) at MNL.

alcogoodwin

November 29th, 2009, 08:30 AM

My first plane spot of PR's B773. It is departing and it is so fast that I only get one shot! :banana:

Departure time was 15:15
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/ianers_ianized/LastBondings029.jpg

Where did you get the shot?
Is there any easily accessable places to get photos of planes taxiing and taking off?
I only ever get shots when arriving and leaving NAIA.

Brad

pi_malejana

November 29th, 2009, 08:31 AM

Where did you get the shot?
Is there any easily accessable places to get photos of planes taxiing and taking off?
I only ever get shots when arriving and leaving NAIA.

Brad

he works there i believe...:D

:cheers:

alcogoodwin

November 29th, 2009, 08:48 AM

he works there i believe...:D

:cheers:

Ahhhh OK, yeah that would help.

But JC (aka Mithral Cloud) also got some awesome shots and he dosen't work there IIRC.
I look to be there in February.

Brad

Sou-jiro

November 29th, 2009, 09:24 AM

I would be inclined to think that it is due to the overall new generation technology, efficiency and reliability that compelled PR to advance in this type of widebodied aircraft into their fleet after all, B777ER holds the longest single nonstop flying range among all other newer generation aircraft technology to date at 16 hours or so I believe. As far as I know even the new A380s are not capable to fly as far as B777ER can. I believe they had this in their minds prior to Cat2 ratings on NAIA for their transpacific flights.

I would think the seating configuration and features can always be altered depending on what specifications an airline company ordered from Boeing so it could have not been just that albeit it is part of it and ofcourse what reasons other forumers above had mentioned already.

both B772LR and A340-500 fly much further than 773ER. The 773 is almost jusr about the same PAL's 744s. Even 744ERs can fly much further than the 773ERs

I think it made sense to get the 773ER done forget those PAL 747s order back in the 90s and economically 773ER beats they're current 747's which are non- ER types.

Although i have to admit A340-600 would have look nice in PAL colours.

I too personally prefer 2-4-2 config instead of 3-4-3. 3-3-3 on the other hand is a different ballgame.

Sou-jiro

November 29th, 2009, 10:15 AM

http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/library/shanghaimd11.jpg

An MD-11 cargo plane crashed as it took off from Shanghai's main airport Saturday, killing three American crew members and injuring four other employees, according to the Associated Press.

The aircraft's tail struck the ground on takeoff from Shanghai Pudong International Airport just after 8 a.m. local time, leading the jet to veer off the runway and burst into flames, the AP said, citing Chinese media accounts. The plane, operated by Zimbabwe-based Avient Aviation,was headed to Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan's capital, the AP reported.

U.S. Embassy spokesman Richard Buangan confirmed the deaths to the AP and said a fourth American was among the injured.

Boeing issued a statement saying:

Boeing has recently learned that an MD-11 freighter airplane crashed shortly after takeoff from Shanghai Pudong International Airport on Saturday morning (local time). All of us at Boeing wish to offer our condolences to the family and friends of those who lost their lives in the crash. We will keep the injured crew members and their families in our thoughts. At the invitation of the Civil Aviation Administration of China, Boeing is providing technical assistance to the investigation in coordination with the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board.

(from seattlepi.com)

Noize_320

November 29th, 2009, 03:09 PM

^^ thats the 2nd MD-11F crash this year... :ohno:

hybridace101

November 29th, 2009, 04:24 PM

Sky Harbor

November 29th, 2009, 04:43 PM

^^ AF is the controlling carrier, and I presume NW-KL will be subsumed into DL-AF. All four carriers are part of a joint venture under TATL antitrust immunity granted to SkyTeam.

hikouki

November 29th, 2009, 04:48 PM

^^

When DL and NW's operating certificates are consolidated, what will happen to the long standing alliance between KL and NW? Is it for all intents and purposes dissolved or will DL take its place? And who is the controlling carrier in the Air France-KLM group?

IIRC, KL is now just a "department" or a wholly owned subsidiary of AF. At any rate, the name says it all AF-KL. Usually, the dominant or surviving company is mentioned first.

Sky Harbor

November 29th, 2009, 04:52 PM

^^ AF and KL are two separate airlines with a common parent (Air France-KLM). It just so happens that since it was AF that bought KL, they get first dibs on the name.

hybridace101

November 29th, 2009, 05:12 PM

Here's a picture of one of PR's former A342s, now with Aerolineas Argentinas: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Aerolineas-Argentinas/Airbus-A340-211/0370240/L/&sid=be791775fa85330cc75b282227eba5dd . If we still had these, a guaranteed nonstop SFO/LAX-MNL flight would be a reality.

ianers_ianized

November 29th, 2009, 05:19 PM

Where did you get the shot?
Is there any easily accessable places to get photos of planes taxiing and taking off?
I only ever get shots when arriving and leaving NAIA.

Brad

I got it while spotting at the satellite walkways wide windows. It is a good place to planespot at NAIA travellers..

he works there i believe...:D

:cheers:
Ahhhh OK, yeah that would help.

But JC (aka Mithral Cloud) also got some awesome shots and he dosen't work there IIRC.
I look to be there in February.

Brad

Yup, I work at T1.

Here's a picture of one of PR's former A342s, now with Aerolineas Argentinas: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Aerolineas-Argentinas/Airbus-A340-211/0370240/L/&sid=be791775fa85330cc75b282227eba5dd . If we still had these, a guaranteed nonstop SFO/LAX-MNL flight would be a reality.
Pano nga b 'to npunta sa AR?

hybridace101

November 29th, 2009, 05:41 PM

^^

It has to do with the asian financial crisis when PR needed to sell-off some of its aircraft.

mwg12a

November 29th, 2009, 05:59 PM

Although i have to admit A340-600 would have look nice in PAL colours.

I too personally prefer 2-4-2 config instead of 3-4-3. 3-3-3 on the other hand is a different ballgame.

I have wondered about the fact why PAL never got an A340-600 in the past as well although, I think B777 is more energy efficient now than A340.

I also like the idea of 2-4-2 sitting as opposed to 3-4-3 but that depends if I travel alone or not but I do find PAL's airbus sitting configurations more accessable and comfortable than their old B747 sitting which is similar to old NWA's economy class.

Sou-jiro

November 29th, 2009, 09:39 PM

^^ yup yup agreed :cheers:

Here's a picture of one of PR's former A342s, now with Aerolineas Argentinas: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Aerolineas-Argentinas/Airbus-A340-211/0370240/L/&sid=be791775fa85330cc75b282227eba5dd . If we still had these, a guaranteed nonstop SFO/LAX-MNL flight would be a reality.

hehe that's whyI'm quite fond to Aerolineas's A42s...that'swhat they use in SYD so I see those Ex PAL plane often.

There aren't many A342s build less than 30 and no longer in production. PAL is one of the very few carriers who used them.

I believe the sultanate of Brunei owns one with real gold as part of the interior design.

Mojacko

November 30th, 2009, 02:03 AM

I have wondered about the fact why PAL never got an A340-600 in the past as well although, I think B777 is more energy efficient now than A340.

The reason behind that is simple: powerplant commonality (at least in terms of manufacturer), in the interest of easy servicing and maintenance.

Philippine Airlines' fleet are all powered by GE Engines, specifically (classified by type powered):

Airbus A319/320s and A340-300s: CFM56-7
Airbus A330-300s: CF6-80A
Boeing 747-400s: CF6-80C2
Boeing 777-300ERs: GE90-112

The A340-600 is powered by Rolls-Royce Trents.

mwg12a

November 30th, 2009, 02:06 AM

Ah, that makes sense, i forgot that PAL's fleets are al powered by GE engines.

Mojacko

November 30th, 2009, 02:30 AM

Maybe some airlines can - better than others - afford to maintain aircraft powered by multiple manufacturers in one fleet. Take, for instance, big US airlines like American and Delta - their planes are powered by an outstanding variety of GE, P&W and RR engines, as I note in Delta's example (this includes ex-NW planes):

Airbus A319/320s: GE CFM56-7
Airbus A330-200/300s: P&W PW4164/4168
Boeing 737-700/800s: GE CFM56-7 (slightly different variant from those on A319/320s)
Boeing 747-400s: P&W PW4056
Boeing 757-200/300s: P&W PW 2037/2040/2043
Boeing 767-300s: P&W JT9D-7
Boeing 767-300ER/400ERs: GE CF6-80C2
Boeing 777-200ERs: RR Trent 900
Boeing 777-200LRs: GE GE90-112
McDonnell Douglas MD-80s: P&W JT8D
McDonnell Douglas MD-90s: IAE (PW & RR joint venture) V2500

While for some airlines like Philippine Airlines, maintaining a single manufacturer is more practical.

There was once a time (from the late 70s to the mid-90s) when Cathay Pacific once had an all Rolls-Royce powered fleet (L-1011s and 747-200s, -300s and -400s), until the arrival of their GE-powered A340-300s in 1997, and now even they have a mixed-powerplant fleet, as exemplified:

Airbus A330-300s: RR Trent 700
Airbus A340-300s: GE CFM56-7
Boeing 747-400s: RR RB211-524G/H (original); P&W PW4056 (ex-SQ)
Boeing 777-200/300s: RR Trent 800
Boeing 777-300ERs: GE GE90-112

It really depends on the airline's financial situation whether they can afford to maintain a single-manufacturer or multi-manufacturer-powered fleet.

hikouki

November 30th, 2009, 02:51 AM

^^

It has to do with the asian financial crisis when PR needed to sell-off some of its aircraft.

The A340-200s that PAL had were leased and not included in their original order for planes. I'm not sure if they even had any long-term plans for the A340-200s.

The four A342s were leased by CX (from Airbus?) to familiarize themselves with the upcoming A343s. When CX had their fill, PAL then leased the same four (from Airbus?) for the same reason. Then it went to AR.

No one really became fond of them because they were not really very efficient. Airbus only made them since the original A343s fell short of the expectation of some airlines in terms of range. The A342s were a bit heavy for their size. Hence even die-hard Airbus fans like LH and AF got rid of them as more efficient A343s and 330s entered the scene.

hikouki

November 30th, 2009, 02:55 AM

swahi

November 30th, 2009, 03:56 AM

pictures of RP-C7777 posted on youtube. Business class seat width seems narrow?

pi_malejana

November 30th, 2009, 07:08 AM

pictures of RP-C7777 posted on youtube. Business class seat width seems narrow?

this one??
KwxVq2Y5g6o

mukha nga...

Sky Harbor

November 30th, 2009, 07:16 AM

^^ Those are flight_083's pictures which I posted here last week.

Sou-jiro

November 30th, 2009, 10:43 AM

Engine comonality aside: Most of the Main mainland Chinese carriers and also CX uses RR Trent engines on there A330s in favour of those CFMs engine but I think it makes sense for the routes it operates as these have slighty longer range than the CFMs

these aircrafts come from mainland China to the Eastcoast of Australia And New Zealand so that extra range would be needed though CFM can also do the job.

On the other hand PAL normally uses this regional and the furthest it would serve is SYD-MEL ...very well within CFMs capability and range.

alcogoodwin

November 30th, 2009, 12:25 PM

I got it while spotting at the satellite walkways wide windows. It is a good place to planespot at NAIA travellers..

Yup, I work at T1.

?

Can you recommend any public accessable places?

I have got a couple of shots on arrival and at departure. But there must be somewhere good to get planes landing and taking off that wont get you arrested during your holiday :lol:

Thanks
Brad

Sky Harbor

November 30th, 2009, 02:18 PM

^^ There's the spot between the cargo terminal and NAIA-1, which is only sealed off with a low fence.

Mithril Cloud

November 30th, 2009, 02:20 PM

There's a restaurant at the departure level called Windows of the World. The windows aren't that clean, but the view is good.

quannar

November 30th, 2009, 04:26 PM

I did watch again the Mayday episode of Philippiner Airlines Flight434 bombing incident....and I can't help myself but to be proud of our Pinoy pilot, did search also the aircraft involved in said incident and apparently it was already scrapped, last operator was Sky Express Greece.

http://images3.jetphotos.net/img/2/8/9/5/24187_1140890598.jpg

ianers_ianized

November 30th, 2009, 05:05 PM

There's a restaurant at the departure level called Windows of the World. The windows aren't that clean, but the view is good.

Are you saying the Hariraya Resto?

Can you recommend any public accessable places?

I have got a couple of shots on arrival and at departure. But there must be somewhere good to get planes landing and taking off that wont get you arrested during your holiday :lol:

Thanks
Brad

The leftmost and rightmost well-wishers area of NAIA departure area it is a good spot for plane spotting too. But for landing and taking-off it must be in the Cargo areas of Paranaque or Merville area.

Mithril Cloud

November 30th, 2009, 05:33 PM

Nope, it's the restaurant near the left entrance to the departure hall.

alcogoodwin

December 1st, 2009, 08:12 AM

Many thanks everyone for your help.

Brad

Kintoy

December 1st, 2009, 09:20 AM

flew on this one last Friday to HK. unfortunately the flight back was on an old 319 :bash:

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270019.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270028_01.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270031_01.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270032_01.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270033_01.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270034_01.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270035_01.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270038_01.jpg

boom_box

December 1st, 2009, 09:23 AM

^^ sardinas ba talaga dyan sa 3-4-3 ng 773..? :D

kiretoce

December 1st, 2009, 09:27 AM

flew on this one last Friday to HK. unfortunately the flight back was on an old 319 :bash:

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270032_01.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270033_01.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270034_01.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270035_01.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270038_01.jpg

Nice interiors. A bit too luxurious for just a short hop to HKG; my opinion.

Kintoy

December 1st, 2009, 09:29 AM

Nice interiors. A bit to luxurious for just a short hop to HKG.

no complaints from me, this is way better than flying on the 319 :lol:

the flight last Friday was almost full, btw

more cabin pics

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270040_01.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270041_01.jpg

Big Bang Theory on in-flight entertainment
http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270042_01.jpg

pi_malejana

December 1st, 2009, 09:31 AM

wait are those sockets for USB and LAN??

boom_box

December 1st, 2009, 09:31 AM

hmm.. I see LAN and USB port on the left side... Does it work..?

Kintoy

December 1st, 2009, 09:33 AM

hmm.. I see LAN and USB port on the left side... Does it work..?

yup, but i havent tried them, i dont have any devices at hand during the flight except for the iphone and camera

hikouki

December 1st, 2009, 10:19 AM

flew on this one last Friday to HK. unfortunately the flight back was on an old 319 :bash:

...
http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270032_01.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270033_01.jpg

...

I like the yellow, green and pink head rest covers. They liven up the otherwise dull blue cabin.:cheers:

How did you find the seats? Did they feel that tight? (I hated TG's cabin when it was stil 3-4-3). I suppose there was more than ample legroom to make up for the less-than-usual hiproom.

alcogoodwin

December 1st, 2009, 10:50 AM

A PAL employee told my friend that the B777 was supposed to start flying to Australia in mid February.
I hope so, I may score it on the return.

Anyone able to add to this?

Brad

Kintoy

December 1st, 2009, 12:56 PM

ewh1

December 1st, 2009, 01:12 PM

question

did they show a new safety video or the old one?

Kintoy

December 1st, 2009, 01:52 PM

question

did they show a new safety video or the old one?

i think nag-live demo yung crew

Sky Harbor

December 1st, 2009, 02:16 PM

^^ PAL does not have a safety video for the 77W. Hopefully by now they will make a new safety video. :D

Sky Harbor

December 1st, 2009, 02:17 PM

A PAL employee told my friend that the B777 was supposed to start flying to Australia in mid February.
I hope so, I may score it on the return.

Anyone able to add to this?

Brad

No schedules yet, but it will do SYD/MEL in February or March next year (info from PEx).

hikouki

December 1st, 2009, 02:54 PM

i think nag-live demo yung crew

What's in their live demo that's not mentioned in the old video? Is it really that outdated? (FYI, United's safety vids seem like they were shot during the 80s.:nuts:). Old aircraft, new aircraft, refurbished, not refurbished...it seems they are preferring the live demos more and more.

Sky Harbor

December 1st, 2009, 03:10 PM

^^ They do not have the exit plan for the 77W, unlike the refurbished 744s, where the old video is still appropriate. Since the video was made in the 1990s or early 2000s, I doubt they'll be able to edit it now.

This is a good time for PAL to finally release a new safety video.

jogavilz

December 1st, 2009, 03:10 PM

it seems that people pay more attention if a flight attendant is doing the live demonstration instead of video

hybridace101

December 1st, 2009, 03:12 PM

These are nice video simulations of a prospective A380 in PR:

qurP1Jfy9sA

XEwbxgoX60E

I wish they can soon have a deal in concept to get this kind of aircraft.

@kintoy Is the map used in the 77W's airshow the same as the A319?

Kintoy

December 1st, 2009, 03:32 PM

What's in their live demo that's not mentioned in the old video? Is it really that outdated? (FYI, United's safety vids seem like they were shot during the 80s.:nuts:). Old aircraft, new aircraft, refurbished, not refurbished...it seems they are preferring the live demos more and more.

i have no idea, lol...i was busy taking pics. :lol:

hybridace101

December 1st, 2009, 03:37 PM

^^

They probably haven't recorded the parts pertinent to the 77W yet (i.e. 5 doors per side of the aircraft).

Kintoy

December 1st, 2009, 03:39 PM

I didnt know its runway extends to the sea

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB300646.jpg

Sky Harbor

December 1st, 2009, 03:39 PM

^^

They probably haven't recorded the parts pertinent to the 77W yet (i.e. 5 doors per side of the aircraft).

The video is too old to be modified in order to accommodate the 77W.

Kintoy

December 1st, 2009, 03:41 PM

The video is too old to be modified in order to accommodate the 77W.

they really need to replace that video. and some of the cabin crew :cheers:

hybridace101

December 1st, 2009, 03:54 PM

^^

And replace the nokia phone used there as well in the illustration! Maybe with an iPhone or Blackberry Bold? Speaking of phones, they should also losen-up a bit with the use of handphones - the FAA allows their use while the doors are open and very shortly after touchdown (as they taxi into the gate). Also, hasn't PR heard of new technology that allows the use of such phones inflight on other carriers? What's even ironic: I don't know how one can actually pick-up any handphone signals at 35K feet or higher. They even boast of forbidding the use of laptops with active WiFi connections when other carriers have the technology to permit that.

@kintoy I'm still wondering if the map used in the 77W's airshow the same as the A319?

Kintoy

December 1st, 2009, 04:04 PM

^^

@kintoy I'm still wondering if the map used in the 77W's airshow the same as the A319?

not sure what you mean, not familiar with the jargon, sorry

Sky Harbor

December 1st, 2009, 04:10 PM

^^ Is the in-flight map of the 777 the same as that of the A319?

Kintoy

December 1st, 2009, 04:15 PM

^^ Is the in-flight map of the 777 the same as that of the A319?

ah ok. i think they are, only the one in 777 is on a larger screen

Sky Harbor

December 1st, 2009, 04:35 PM

Garuda Indonesia is slated to join SkyTeam in 2011. This leaves only one major Southeast Asian airline to have not be courted by any alliance: PAL. :cry:

hybridace101

December 1st, 2009, 04:48 PM

^^

PR and Garuda have a code-share agreement on PR503/504. This should help a bit. I want it to join SkyTeam so I can consolidate my PR miles with NW miles.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Garuda a 3-star airline? If yes, then I don't know what else is keeping PR from joining an alliance. OneWorld would be my second preference as the said alliance is under-represented here (TG, SG, OZ, a lesser extent CO and soon AirChina already represent StarAlliance, NW, KL and KE represent SkyTeam while only CX and QF represent OneWorld with JL subsidiary JalWays flying-in).

And what alliance will MH likely join? I am inclined to think SkyTeam because of its relationship with KL.

Sky Harbor

December 1st, 2009, 04:58 PM

^^ Heck no! No to PR joining Oneworld! Definitely not! I am not willing to have our national airline be reduced to a role where it will only feed NRT and HKG! Even Star is more palatable than Oneworld! :ohno:

I forgot to mention: even if GA were to join SkyTeam, you won't be able to earn Skymiles on PR. You can only earn them on GA.

MH is reportedly being blocked by AF. As to the reason, we don't know why.

hikouki

December 1st, 2009, 05:16 PM

hikouki

December 1st, 2009, 05:26 PM

jogavilz

December 1st, 2009, 05:29 PM

@Kintoy: do you have a picture of the 777 safety card?

mwg12a

December 1st, 2009, 05:29 PM

I like the yellow, green and pink head rest covers. They liven up the otherwise dull blue cabin.:cheers:

How did you find the seats? Did they feel that tight? (I hated TG's cabin when it was stil 3-4-3). I suppose there was more than ample legroom to make up for the less-than-usual hiproom.

I agree. I just surprised how nicer it looks now from the first YouTube vid presentation, those covers did livened up the interior, It looks like 3-3-3 config instead of 3-4-3 on the economy class. Not bad ofcourse.

Thanks Kintoy.

On the related issue, since you guys are talking about Skyteam. I also wonder why PAL isn't joining skyteam. What would they lose if they join with them since skyteam is trying to make it's presence in asia known, here is what i found in airlines thread.

Skyteam bundles its forces in Asia

By Luc Citrinot, eTN senior managing editor, Asia | Nov 27, 2009
Despite the presence of Korean Air and China Southern, alliance Skyteam continues to lack visibility in Asia, a comment which does not seem to please Pierre Gourgeon, president and CEO of Air France-KLM, the driving force behind the alliance.

“This is not true! We have a very strong presence in Korea, Japan, and China, especially with our partners Korean Air and China Southern Airlines,” he said during a recent press conference in Paris. However, he is prompt to recognize that Skyteam remains weak in markets such as south Asia (India) and southeast Asia.

Year 2010 should bring welcome changes. Gourgeon confirms that Vietnam Airlines will enter the alliance by next year helping Skyteam to cover extensively southeast Asia from both Vietnam hubs in Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi. Vietnam Airlines is now engaged into a modernization process prior to becoming an official member in June 2010. Since 2007, the airline has ordered 36 Airbus A-321, two Airbus A-350 900XWB, 16 Boeing B787 Dreamliners, and 11 ATR 72. Mid-November, the airline announced its intention to acquire four Airbus A380 with the contract being possibly finalized during the first quarter of 2010. Vietnam Airlines has currently a fleet of 52 planes flying 19 domestic and 25 international routes with a total passengers’ number of over nine million. It expects to triple its fleet and passengers number by 2020.

The airlines' network has been reorganized to shorten transit time and improve transfers at HCM City airport, and it has recently increased the number of its weekly flights to Paris CDG, Air France-KLM's main hub in Europe. Vietnam Airlines now flies eight times per week, up by two frequencies. Europe represents a turnover of €165 million in 2008 with three flights to Russia, Germany, and France. “We are currently working all together to bring Vietnam Airlines IT system to Skyteam’s standards”, said Gourgeon.

A new partner to be officially confirmed soon is Indonesia’s national carrier Garuda. “We are very pleased to support the candidacy of Garuda, a long-standing partner of us in Asia,” explained Peter Hartman, president and CEO of KLM. “In our last meeting, we decided to support Garuda’s process into Skyteam in conjunction with Korean Air and Delta Air Lines. I believe, however, that the process would take a year until Garuda’s official entry,” he explained. Year 2011 is also seen as the possible entry date by Garuda management as recently confirmed in exclusivity to eTurboNews by Emirsyah Satar, president and CEO of Garuda. “The soonest, the better. We now work on upgrading our reservation’s system and look to expand our fleet from 66 to 116 aircraft by 2014”, said Satar.

Air France is also looking closely at Japan Airlines. Hearing about the airline’s financial difficulties, Air France-KLM has joined Delta Air Lines and Skyteam to bid for a US$1.02 billion financial pakage to save the airline. The proposal by Delta and SkyTeam includes, among others, a US$500 million equity injection from SkyTeam and a US$300 million revenue guarantee from Delta. The Japanese carrier has just received the government’s approval for a loan of about yen 100 billion from the Development Bank of Japan bridge loans to keep itself operational after being granted authorization by the government. Gourgeon remains cautious about the outcome. “I can’t say more about it. It all depends [on] discussions’ results between the Japanese government and JAL management. We still do not know if the Japanese government will allow the entry of a foreign carrier into JAL ownership,” he said.

In India, Air France seems to have temporarily abandoned the idea to link up with an Indian carrier. “The air travel market is currently very difficult with few good opportunities to find a partner,” said Gourgeon cautiously.

http://www.eturbonews.com/12992/skyteam-bundles-its-forces-asia

Kintoy

December 1st, 2009, 06:19 PM

Kintoy

December 1st, 2009, 06:20 PM

@Kintoy: do you have a picture of the 777 safety card?

no, i was not able to take a pic of it

Sou-jiro

December 1st, 2009, 09:52 PM

@kintoy...

Did you have a chance to browse through the Duty Free mag of PAL? I was wondering if they already have a model of the 77W for sale. [Their inflight sales office told me some months ago they will sell 77W models when the real thing is already flying for them.]

Is is cheaper on board?...i Couldnt wait, I bought eh PAL B777 already the herpa 1:500

along with the PAL Phoenix 1:400 C7475. If it cheaper on board i might consider it there was also a PAL Gemini Jets in 1:200 but its quite a steep price so I passed that model.

hybridace101

December 2nd, 2009, 12:26 AM

Perhaps my guess why PR doesn't join an alliance is that a pre-requisite to joining is a good airport/hub. CGK looks decent enough. And because PR is the sole operator in T2, connections to T1 will be quite inconvenient. For connecting to overseas flights by other operators from PR's overseas flights, does one need to clear passport control or will the transfer be done airside via shuttle bus?

Sky Harbor

December 2nd, 2009, 12:40 AM

^^ SVO is a horrible airport to transfer in, but it's still SU's hub, and SU is a member of SkyTeam. Having a bad airport does not necessarily disqualify you from alliance membership.

hikouki

December 2nd, 2009, 02:22 AM

Is is cheaper on board?...i Couldnt wait, I bought eh PAL B777 already the herpa 1:500

along with the PAL Phoenix 1:400 C7475. If it cheaper on board i might consider it there was also a PAL Gemini Jets in 1:200 but its quite a steep price so I passed that model.

I am yet to get that Herpa 1/500. The inflight sales person told me that the inflight model will be more accurate (that model has the wrong reg and small titles).

Yes, the price is cheaper aboard. The 1/500 744 + 343 set is only USD28. Quite cheap considering most models now cost upwards of USD20 each!

[tsk, tsk, check your PM.]

hikouki

December 2nd, 2009, 03:40 AM

I think having the proper infrastructure is just one among many prerequisites.

Perhaps my guess why PR doesn't join an alliance is that a pre-requisite to joining is a good airport/hub. CGK looks decent enough. And because PR is the sole operator in T2, connections to T1 will be quite inconvenient. For connecting to overseas flights by other operators from PR's overseas flights, does one need to clear passport control or will the transfer be done airside via shuttle bus?

I imagine there are no other ways to connect between terminals but to clear immigrations. Physically, there isn't any connection between the sterile areas.

I do wonder how many passengers use MNL as an international connecting point (international to international)...I often read on blogs that people avoid connecting in MNL like a plague.:lol:

alcogoodwin

December 2nd, 2009, 04:55 AM

Is is cheaper on board?...i Couldnt wait, I bought eh PAL B777 already the herpa 1:500

along with the PAL Phoenix 1:400 C7475. If it cheaper on board i might consider it there was also a PAL Gemini Jets in 1:200 but its quite a steep price so I passed that model.

Is there any shops in Manila that have many PAL plane models to purchase? Can I get any addresses?
Just about exhausted all the available Jeepney models and only have the PAL 747 available on board.

alcogoodwin

December 2nd, 2009, 04:59 AM

No schedules yet, but it will do SYD/MEL in February or March next year (info from PEx).

Thank you my friend, I shall keep my fingers crossed that we manage to get one.
Seems we have more interests in common than just trains huh :lol:

Brad

alcogoodwin

December 2nd, 2009, 05:00 AM

it seems that people pay more attention if a flight attendant is doing the live demonstration instead of video

Absolutely, I far prefer watching the maganda stewardesses than a video :)

alcogoodwin

December 2nd, 2009, 05:21 AM

You can go to Lils Hobby shop at Park Square 1 Makati, Last month I was there and I saw 2 PAL 777-300ER Herpa 1/500 model and 1 plastic model of PAL 747-400

Thank you mate. I will start begging the asawa to take me there.

ruralvillage

December 2nd, 2009, 05:51 AM

RP scores well in Icao’s audit of safety, efficiency (http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/home/economy/19087-rp-scores-well-in-icaos-audit-of-safety-efficiency.html)
Business Mirror (http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/home/economy/19087-rp-scores-well-in-icaos-audit-of-safety-efficiency.html)
Written by Recto Mercene / Reporter
Sunday, 29 November 2009 20:49

THE Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines (CAAP) was audited for overall safety and efficiency by the International Civil Aviation Organization (Icao) the last week of October and bested the global average of 40.31 with a score of 28.19. The lower the score, the less corrections are needed.

The Icao-Universal Safety Audio Program score is a percentage of a given set of 987 questions. The audit team was led by CJ Collins, who conducted the audit from October 18 to 29.

CAAP Director General Ruben Ciron said the questions are focused on critical areas such as primary legislation and civil-aviation regulations, civil-aviation organization, personnel licensing and training, aircraft operations certification and supervision, airworthiness of aircraft, aircraft accident and incident investigation, air navigation service, and aerodromes.

The Icao audit is more comprehensive than the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) audit, which covers only the safety aspects. In November 2007, the FAA downgraded the CAAP to Category 2 status from Category 1, which means Philippine carriers cannot make new flights to the United States.

The CAAP is now in the process of upgrading its technical personnel to improve its safety program and all the other critical areas noted by the new audit.

The Department of Foreign Affairs has informed the air authority, meanwhile, that Ambassador Cristina Ortega has met with James Moran, director for Asia of the European Commission (EC), to explore the availability of at least two European experts to assist it in addressing the technical issues raised by the Committee on Air Safety.

As a result of that meeting, EC experts are considering a visit to the Philippines in March 2010. In the meantime, an update of the Icao audit was sent to the EC’s director of air transport, Daniel Calleja.

“The CAAP is now on track for the next two audits —the European Union Safety Committee and the FAA—that will finally determine our eligibility for restoration to Category 1 status,” said Ciron.

A major negative finding of the audit is the lack of qualified technical personnel. The board on October 29 approved a “special plantilla of positions” to address this lack.

Ciron said it is the board’s hope that the new salary structure will attract qualified applicants, most of whom gravitate to the civil aviation sector because of higher salaries.

hybridace101

December 2nd, 2009, 06:18 AM

I think having the proper infrastructure is just one among many prerequisites.

I imagine there are no other ways to connect between terminals but to clear immigrations. Physically, there isn't any connection between the sterile areas.

I do wonder how many passengers use MNL as an international connecting point (international to international)...I often read on blogs that people avoid connecting in MNL like a plague.:lol:

I have to agree that the host airline's hub is a key area. I mean that's frankly the whole point of an alliance: for partner airlines to coverge at a certain point within the region to maximise options and convenience for transit passengers.

RP scores well in Icao’s audit of safety, efficiency (http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/home/economy/19087-rp-scores-well-in-icaos-audit-of-safety-efficiency.html)
Business Mirror (http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/home/economy/19087-rp-scores-well-in-icaos-audit-of-safety-efficiency.html)
Written by Recto Mercene / Reporter
Sunday, 29 November 2009 20:49

THE Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines (CAAP) was audited for overall safety and efficiency by the International Civil Aviation Organization (Icao) the last week of October and bested the global average of 40.31 with a score of 28.19. The lower the score, the less corrections are needed.

The Icao-Universal Safety Audio Program score is a percentage of a given set of 987 questions. The audit team was led by CJ Collins, who conducted the audit from October 18 to 29.

CAAP Director General Ruben Ciron said the questions are focused on critical areas such as primary legislation and civil-aviation regulations, civil-aviation organization, personnel licensing and training, aircraft operations certification and supervision, airworthiness of aircraft, aircraft accident and incident investigation, air navigation service, and aerodromes.

The Icao audit is more comprehensive than the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) audit, which covers only the safety aspects. In November 2007, the FAA downgraded the CAAP to Category 2 status from Category 1, which means Philippine carriers cannot make new flights to the United States.

The CAAP is now in the process of upgrading its technical personnel to improve its safety program and all the other critical areas noted by the new audit.

The Department of Foreign Affairs has informed the air authority, meanwhile, that Ambassador Cristina Ortega has met with James Moran, director for Asia of the European Commission (EC), to explore the availability of at least two European experts to assist it in addressing the technical issues raised by the Committee on Air Safety.

As a result of that meeting, EC experts are considering a visit to the Philippines in March 2010. In the meantime, an update of the Icao audit was sent to the EC’s director of air transport, Daniel Calleja.

“The CAAP is now on track for the next two audits —the European Union Safety Committee and the FAA—that will finally determine our eligibility for restoration to Category 1 status,” said Ciron.

A major negative finding of the audit is the lack of qualified technical personnel. The board on October 29 approved a “special plantilla of positions” to address this lack.

Ciron said it is the board’s hope that the new salary structure will attract qualified applicants, most of whom gravitate to the civil aviation sector because of higher salaries.

But wasn't the air safety audit by ICAO passed the last time before the FAA downgraded the Philippines to Cat2? And how will this be a good indicator for what the FAA will rate us with? Or maybe in the aspects which the FAA will look at is probably where we scored the lowest.

I'm probably thinking that if ever there are politics involved, it's probably the politics of the CAAP that can't get its act together to hiring competent staff.

hikouki

December 2nd, 2009, 07:28 AM

You can go to Lils Hobby shop at Park Square 1 Makati, Last month I was there and I saw 2 PAL 777-300ER Herpa 1/500 model and 1 plastic model of PAL 747-400

The inflight set cost, according to icma7, P2,500 at Lil's. But it is only USD28 aboard PAL!

hikouki

December 2nd, 2009, 07:32 AM

I have to agree that the host airline's hub is a key area. I mean that's frankly the whole point of an alliance: for partner airlines to coverge at a certain point within the region to maximise options and convenience for transit passengers.

...

No, not necessarily. An airline's home may not be a hub or a significant connecting point for an alliance. Instead, an airline may have just been added to an alliance because it can provide feed through an existing hub. Many alliance members, or at least the major ones, are large enough such that their home airports are also large enough to be considered hubs. But you have all these "regional members" that don't have major hubs as homes.

Jakarta and Saigon are hardly international hubs that could be added to the SkyTeam network. But they do provide significant feed/ traffic to some existing members.

ianers_ianized

December 2nd, 2009, 08:27 AM

Nope, it's the restaurant near the left entrance to the departure hall.

The Wow Restaurant. Yup, the outside area for well wishers is good spot and the other side too - going to parking areas - you have a good spot of planes parked at gate 12-16.

alcogoodwin

December 2nd, 2009, 08:29 AM

And also ready your budget for it :). the PAL 777-300ER 1/500 is worth P1,500+

Hay naku.

Still, it is far better than what they will charge us here :ohno:

alcogoodwin

December 2nd, 2009, 08:30 AM

Funny advertising at Brisbane Airport.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2507/4151750423_40cd4e8747_o.jpg

ianers_ianized

December 2nd, 2009, 08:40 AM

flew on this one last Friday to HK. unfortunately the flight back was on an old 319 :bash:

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270032_01.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu182/wetboxers/PB270033_01.jpg

There's a slight difference in the uphosltery - the absence of terra-cotta color in the wave (reflection of light in the water theme) plus they opted on mint green and violet headress... differing from light blue to darkest blue covers of A320/19s. If I'm not mistaken the B744's headress cover is colored vermillion.

Well, I say it liven up the monotonous blue color of the B773 cabin... I think orange would also be a good color cover as it complements the blue upholstery.

pi_malejana

December 2nd, 2009, 09:10 AM

Funny advertising at Brisbane Airport.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2507/4151750423_40cd4e8747_o.jpg

:rofl: eye catcher...:D

ianers_ianized

December 2nd, 2009, 09:40 AM

Hay naku.

Still, it is far better than what they will charge us here :ohno:

I agree, I think the coast here in PH is lower than those in AU and JP...

hikouki

December 2nd, 2009, 10:52 AM

May mga collectors pala dito...join the collectors' forum:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/1207255@N23/
:)

Sou-jiro

December 2nd, 2009, 11:09 AM

Is there any shops in Manila that have many PAL plane models to purchase? Can I get any addresses?
Just about exhausted all the available Jeepney models and only have the PAL 747 available on board.

There are a few...lil's futaba s one ...better yet...when you're back in SYD there is 4 places I know...infact I nearly bought a cebupac 757 in 1:200 today but its too expansive so I pass, there was also a PAL B773 in 1:500 and a PAL A320 & CEBpac A319 in 1:200.

ask my buddy Ph_man im sure he knows a few in Manila

Sou-jiro

December 2nd, 2009, 11:10 AM

I am yet to get that Herpa 1/500. The inflight sales person told me that the inflight model will be more accurate (that model has the wrong reg and small titles).

Yes, the price is cheaper aboard. The 1/500 744 + 343 set is only USD28. Quite cheap considering most models now cost upwards of USD20 each!

[tsk, tsk, check your PM.]
-------------------
I'll pm you dude :cheers:

Sou-jiro

December 2nd, 2009, 11:16 AM

And also ready your budget for it :). the PAL 777-300ER 1/500 is worth P1,500+

lils had cx 1:500 A346 for Php 2600 (always nagpaparinig to my GF about that cx model :D maybe she got annoyed coz she ended up buying it for me just to shut me up...hmm she better not ask for a handbag in return lol)...thats insane but collectors will know that CX & SQ generally are not cheap. I have an SQ model that cost almost Php5000:bash:

Sou-jiro

December 2nd, 2009, 11:26 AM

I agree, I think the coast here in PH is lower than those in AU and JP...

nope not true its the other way around...i actually found prices in Manila far more expansive personally...there are some models cheaper depends on brand scale etc....it goes both ways really :)

---------------------------------------------

guys sorry for multiple replies somehow i couldnt multi quote on my work pc today ...dunno why

---------------------------------------------

offtopic btw does anyone here have ayoutube account and have Plane/aviation related videos?..la lang

Kintoy

December 2nd, 2009, 11:57 AM

alcogoodwin

December 2nd, 2009, 12:07 PM

nope not true its the other way around...i actually found prices in Manila far more expansive personally...there are some models cheaper depends on brand scale etc....it goes both ways really :)

Your probably right.
I went to the former model railway shop at Shangri La some years ago and the prices were pretty much the same as here.
Not surprising they are now closed.

Sou-jiro

December 2nd, 2009, 12:27 PM

^^^

Thanks Kintoy...i'll keep that in mind.

---------------------------------------
OFFTOPIC

just want to share my latest diorama composed of PAL 744, 2x 773ERs, DHC-8, A340 and 2 x A320

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2751/4152737380_a47147c4c3_o.jpg

hybridace101

December 2nd, 2009, 02:23 PM

Jakarta and Saigon are hardly international hubs that could be added to the SkyTeam network. But they do provide significant feed/ traffic to some existing members.

I think that's the problem for PR and MNL: neither of them have sufficient flights to match the volume expected of an alliance member. For instance, neither serves Europe or the East Coast of the US, places that almost all other carriers, especially in the SkyTeam have a strong presence in.

Sky Harbor

December 2nd, 2009, 02:48 PM

^^ VN and GA don't fly to the U.S. (and in fact GA is still banned from flying there). GA is also only starting Europe services now. If we're talking about U.S. feed, PR has the definite advantage over VN and GA.

In addition, MNL has more traffic than SGN, but slightly less (only a few million less) than CGK.

hikouki

December 2nd, 2009, 02:56 PM

I think that's the problem for PR and MNL: neither of them have sufficient flights to match the volume expected of an alliance member. For instance, neither serves Europe or the East Coast of the US, places that almost all other carriers, especially in the SkyTeam have a strong presence in.

Well, just because PR or MNL have no direct connection to EU or the East Coast doesn't mean there isn't any traffic between here and those two places. Think about it, there are thousands of Pinoys in both areas. Bringing PAL into say the SkyTeam alliance will enable say KLM to get all these Pinoys from the provinces and connect into their flights at MNL and scatter them throughout their EU network via AMS. These people would otherwise have flown Emirates or Etihad.

In the case of Garuda, it will provide passengers from its very extensive Indonesian network into KLM flights to AMS and beyond. Also, GA might benefit. As KL does not have its own flights to Oz, it could terminate its codeshare with MH and give all Oz bound passengers from Europe to GA instead, and this time GA will eventually have an opportunity to grow its Oz network as more passengers are passed on by KL.

Well, something like that. Alliances bring in growth, too. I don't think everything is ready-made. In fact, when alliances are made, airlines will tend to axe redundant routes and/ or re-time flights so they all connect.

hybridace101

December 2nd, 2009, 02:58 PM

Sky Harbor

December 2nd, 2009, 03:00 PM

^^ Not exactly. GA is heavily Indonesian-centric, and this is very evident in the fact that their online booking engine does not even allow you to book international flights (PR can though, definitely). Heck, I even remember someone saying that presuming Indonesia returns to Cat I, GA will not begin U.S. flights until at least 2012.

hikouki

December 2nd, 2009, 03:05 PM

^^

Oh yes, another criteria that I see PR deficient in is the audience that it wants to attract. Most other carriers in the existing alliance are catered to a global audience, hence making the allegiance of a carrier to its home country seem beyond the point. For instance, they don't see CX as Hong Kong-centred in msot aspects. Whereas PR is catered to a local (pinoy) audience hence we can't see it expand to such routes I mentioned earlier (assuming all legal barriers allow it to do so). PR has to have a global mindset and not a local focus.

Some of these things tend to get "fixed" as an airline joins an alliance. AI for example had plenty of these things that needed to get fixed, especially after the merger, hence the delayed entry into Star. I suppose it depends how valuable PR is to an alliance. I think they will assist an airline in meeting their standards.

tigidig14

December 2nd, 2009, 03:19 PM

interesant

hybridace101

December 2nd, 2009, 03:29 PM

I suppose it depends how valuable PR is to an alliance.

That's exactly what I'm looking for. What does PR have to contribute to Star, oneworld or Sky that will make it attractive for those alliance to court it? I don't think the non-stop flights to the west coast that caters to Fil-Ams will convince these alliances to admit them.

Or to put it in how someone framed it earlier: why isn't PR positioning itself to be courted by an alliance? What makes it so confident that it can go it alone in an increasingly competitive industry?

Sky Harbor

December 2nd, 2009, 03:38 PM

^^ Actually, it is positioning itself to be courted by an alliance. Jaime Bautista even said himself that he prefers PAL to be invited by an alliance rather than apply for membership into one.

hybridace101

December 2nd, 2009, 03:48 PM

So what is it doing? If you were Skyteam, oneworld or Star Alliance, what is it in an airline that will warrant it to be invited?

mwg12a

December 2nd, 2009, 03:58 PM

^^ Actually, it is positioning itself to be courted by an alliance. Jaime Bautista even said himself that he prefers PAL to be invited by an alliance rather than apply for membership into one.

Why "rather get invited" instead of applying? What are the pros and cons? What will be the effect of its Alliance with skyteam especially tht DL/NW are on board? Although, with the alliance together with DL, airfares to and from the Philippines would cost a bit more due to less competitions.

hikouki

December 2nd, 2009, 04:09 PM

That's exactly what I'm looking for. What does PR have to contribute to Star, oneworld or Sky that will make it attractive for those alliance to court it? I don't think the non-stop flights to the west coast that caters to Fil-Ams will convince these alliances to admit them.

Or to put it in how someone framed it earlier: why isn't PR positioning itself to be courted by an alliance? What makes it so confident that it can go it alone in an increasingly competitive industry?

THINK about it. There are thousands of Pinoys in Europe and PAL could not make a single centavo. And its Asian route network is not really that extensive. There are also thousands of Pinoys in the US, and all PAL could do is fly to the West Coast. But keep this in mind - PAL has a lion's share of passengers willing to fly nonstop to LAX and SFO so much so that they can fly there more than daily (on peak season) and fill 747s with passengers. Not even NWA/DL can make nonstops work from MNL. They have to stop in NRT because a lot of the other passengers are going elsewhere in the US. And there is clamor for PAL to fly to San Diego and the East Coast. Bottomline is, PAL has a strong brand among MNL-US passengers and at present they are not fully able to exploit this market because of financial limitations.

Don't you agree that DL/NWA is a behemoth compared to PAL? Yet the tiny little carrier that is PAL has more flights to the US from MNL than NWA/DL? And nonstops at that! And this is just the tip of the iceberg. As mentioned, PAL has its entire domestic network to feed its trans-Pacs and NWA has none as far as their MNL flights are concerned. Sure, these Pinoys are low-yield but look, they are keeping PAL alive just by sheer volume!

No other Asian carrier is flying to SanDiego - not even SQ (THE most profitable carrier in the world by market share). Yet, a lot of the LAX passengers are actually PAL loyalists from SAN. PAL is said to be itching to start SAN. Heck, SQ could not even make 3x weekly LAS work yet PAL has grown the route to 5x weekly. PAL, in its own little way must be capable of something the big boys aren't, no?

Sky Harbor

December 2nd, 2009, 04:14 PM

^^ Don't forget Cat II as well. :okay:

hybridace101

December 2nd, 2009, 04:22 PM

^^

Even if Cat2 is out (which I am not convinced will happen despite the high ICAO ratings), I don't think the East Coast will be sustainable for PR in the long run so it will probably not fly that route.

Also, speaking of NW/DL, I'm nervous that DL will cut MNL from its network. It hardly gives prominence to what was once one of NW's most premier destinations in the Far East.

Finally, since we own the subject, are you more confident that Cat2 will be recalled and Cat1 be reinstated? I have a feeling maybe not as I think while we bested out the world average, we may have done poorest in the categories most crucial to the FAA audit (I'm not sure though).

Sky Harbor

December 2nd, 2009, 04:24 PM

hybridace101

December 2nd, 2009, 04:48 PM

^^
And another thing, don't underestimate the second-largest Fil-Am community in the United States. ;)

I hope that will be a key consideration in letting PR access major alliances. Bautista's strategy is wrong if it wants to be invited because since PR's network is from a global perspective miniscule, I don't think an alliance itself will invite PR. :)

Based on existing airline relationships, practical considerations, etc, what alliance will PR a) best fit into and b) likely join?

Based also on my understanding what you said DL will offer JL, it appears that DL is willing to give-up MNL et al. Maybe I'm wrong.

Sky Harbor

December 2nd, 2009, 05:28 PM

OceanBreezeInn

December 2nd, 2009, 10:15 PM

...Thursday, December 03, 2009
PAL Express resumes flights to Caticlan airport

BORACAY – Philippine Airlines Express (PAL Express) has reopened its regular flights to Godofredo P. Ramos Airport (Caticlan Airport) on December 1 in time for the increased tourist traffic in the island of Boracay.
PAL Express 50-seater Bombardier Q300 first flight arrived from Manila at 11 a.m. on Tuesday. The Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines (CAAP) earlier suspended flights of Cebu Pacific, PAL Express and Zest Air, citing, the short runway of Caticlan airport and aviation safety.
The three airlines diverted their flights to Kalibo International Airport in the capital town of Kalibo, one and a half-hour land trip to Caticlan jetty port, the main jump-off point to the island resort of Boracay.
After CAAP imposed restrictions on Caticlan airport, Southeast Asian Airlines (Seair) is the only airline operating in Caticlan Airport with its 30-seater twin engine Dornier 328 which is ideal for short take-off and short-landing of smaller aircrafts.
PAL Express is operated by Air Philippines with up to 20 flights daily from Manila and Cebu starting December 19. The airline company also flying direct from Manila to Virac, Naga, Ormoc, San Jose, Calbayog, Catarman, Surigao, Tuguegarao and Busuanga and from Cebu to Zamboanga, Ozamiz, Ilolo, General Santos, Dipolog, Bacolod, Butuan, Cagayan de Oro and Tacloban.
Caticlan airport is classified as Class 2 Principal airport and the seventh busiest airport in the country last year. The government is fastracking the extension of runway to accommodate bigger aircrafts.

hybridace101

December 2nd, 2009, 10:29 PM

^^ A friend of my aunt's who works at PAL once told me that PR is somewhat close to AA. However, given that the local Southeast Asian partner of Oneworld is technically CX, I doubt they will get PR. Star Alliance however seems to be all happy-go-lucky on the idea of expansion (it wants to have 50 member airlines), so maybe PAL will be welcome there, though that depends on TG and SQ's reception.

Given that VN and GA are bound to enter SkyTeam, I don't know if PAL will even be able to get in. But I really hope it does.

As much as you don't like oneworld, given what you said that AA and PR have good relations and that ASEAN is underepresented compared to Star (TG and SQ) and SkyTeam (soon-to-be VN and GA), realistically oneworld may be what PR will end up joining. Moreover, I thin CX and PR may have good relationships and as I mentioned, CX appears to be the only airline that is part of an alliance that has a code share agreement with PR.

Having said that, I don't think there is a rule that a certain region will have a maximum number of alliance partners. China for instance has 2 airlines at Star (Air China and Shanghai Airlines) and with the same alliance, it has plenty of airline partners based in Europe.

I prefer PR to be in SkyTeam as well. What do you think are the factors that are in favour of them wanting to join there?

hikouki

December 3rd, 2009, 03:21 AM

^^ Again, the only way DL will cut MNL is if it shifts most (or even all) of its NRT capacity to JL, presuming JL goes the way of Delta's rehabilitation proposal. Highly unlikely given that AA is willing to fight for JL staying in the Oneworld camp.

And another thing, don't underestimate the second-largest Fil-Am community in the United States. ;)

DL's and perhaps AA's interest in JAL stems from its access to Haneda, and not so much its domestic feed or Asian network. As you know, Haneda will open to premium international traffic in October 2010. Supposing DL gets JL, it might transfer some of its NRT ops to HND and we might see some Asian cities as casualties. (Of course they cannot transfer all as HND will only be a point-to-point airport.)

hikouki

December 3rd, 2009, 03:22 AM

hikouki

December 3rd, 2009, 03:26 AM

As much as you don't like oneworld, given what you said that AA and PR have good relations and that ASEAN is underepresented compared to Star (TG and SQ) and SkyTeam (soon-to-be VN and GA), realistically oneworld may be what PR will end up joining. Moreover, I thin CX and PR may have good relationships and as I mentioned, CX appears to be the only airline that is part of an alliance that has a code share agreement with PR.

Having said that, I don't think there is a rule that a certain region will have a maximum number of alliance partners. China for instance has 2 airlines at Star (Air China and Shanghai Airlines) and with the same alliance, it has plenty of airline partners based in Europe.

I prefer PR to be in SkyTeam as well. What do you think are the factors that are in favour of them wanting to join there?

One codeshared route is hardly an indication of such a rosy relationship. Don't forget, these two also heavily compete on the MNL-HKG market, not to mention MNL to West Coast!

You have to have cooperation on several routes and at many different levels in order to conclude two airlines are indeed "close." But I think CX has a recognition that PAL (or rather its market) is worth something. Remember they stepped in the Philippine domestic market when PAL shutdown? IIRC, politics (and price) played a large role when talks between CX and PR collapsed.

Sky Harbor

December 3rd, 2009, 04:42 AM

As much as you don't like oneworld, given what you said that AA and PR have good relations and that ASEAN is underepresented compared to Star (TG and SQ) and SkyTeam (soon-to-be VN and GA), realistically oneworld may be what PR will end up joining.

AA and PR being on cordial terms does not guarantee its entry into an alliance. For example, KL and PR are on very friendly terms (and for 40+ years even), yet they went to support GA's entry into SkyTeam instead.

There are other factors will prohibit PR from entering Oneworld. One would be its distrust of BA (over the kangaroo route fiasco), heavy competition with CX, and, most especially, the potential (but still rumored) entry of MH into Oneworld.

kiretoce

December 3rd, 2009, 05:49 AM

AA and PR being on cordial terms does not guarantee its entry into an alliance. For example, KL and PR are on very friendly terms (and for 40+ years even), yet they went to support GA's entry into SkyTeam instead.

There are other factors will prohibit PR from entering Oneworld. One would be its distrust of BA (over the kangaroo route fiasco), heavy competition with CX, and, most especially, the potential (but still rumored) entry of MH into Oneworld.

OT: I see somewhat of a pairing-up of "colonizer-colonist" in that post. :colgate:

AA and PR
KL and GA
BA and CX

:lol:

mwg12a

December 3rd, 2009, 05:57 AM

^^^^:rofl:

kiretoce

December 3rd, 2009, 06:28 AM

^^ Something has to be said for protecting your own, right? ;)

mwg12a

December 3rd, 2009, 06:30 AM

maybe, maybe not... he he

Chrisvenz

December 3rd, 2009, 06:30 AM

Terminal 2 and 3 seeks ISO Certification
Aims service excellence upgrade

December 2, 2009

Manila - THE Manila International Airport Authority launched government campaign to get International Standards Organization (ISO) certification for the Ninoy Aquino International Airport (Naia) Terminals 2 and 3 by signing service pacts with 13 government agencies operating in the two facilities covering passenger-facilitation process.

The International Standards Organization (ISO) is an international authority that promulgates worldwide industrial and commercial standards. Founded in 1947, the ISO has its home office in Geneva, Switzerland, and currently has 158 member-states including the Philippines in its roster.

Terminal 1 has successfully achieved its ISO certification for the 9001 and 2001 versions in March this year. In April, Terminal 1 was upgraded to the 2008 version, and so far is one of the few government institutions that was granted with such certification, according to airport general manager Alfonso Cusi.

Alfonso Cusi said securing ISO certification for the passenger facilitation process for Naia 2 and 3 would give an assurance to domestic and international travelers that they were getting quality services in the country’s gateways.

The ISO is an indication that all of Naia terminal facilities and personnel are geared toward giving its passengers an internationally recognized ritual of assistance, following a world standard.

“Today’s signing activity brings us further to our dream of achieving service excellence at all levels in all Naia terminals. Slowly but surely, we’re getting there,” Cusi said.

The Service level agreements (SLA) involves the participation of 13 government agencies operating at NAIA airport which require them to provide Service Excellence Standards to passengers.

The signed SLAs contain the so-called “service excellence standards” for passenger handling that the 13 agencies hope to raise to ISO levels in the coming months.

Every month, the 13 agencies will submit performance reports to the Miaa’s Quality Management System Committee, detailing percentage accomplishments against targets that they have committed to achieve., which they submit monthly, including their performance reports to a quality-management committee, writing in details the percentage of accomplishments against a prescribed goal.

The 13 participating agencies are the Bureau of Customs, the Bureau of Immigration, the Bureau of Quarantine, the Bureau of Animal Industry, the Bureau of Plant Industry, the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources, the Wildlife Traffic Management Unit of the environment department’s National Capital Region office; the National Bureau of Investigation, the Overseas Workers Welfare Administration, the Commission on Filipinos Overseas, the transportation department’s Office for Transportation Security, the Philippine Overseas Employment Administration, and the Philippine Tourism Authority.

“The entire process is laborious and entails commitment to change our airport processes,” explained Tirso Serrano, Assistant General Manager for Airport Development and Corporate Affairs. “But we have done it in NAIA 1 and we are confident we will get NAIA 2 and 3 certified in no time.”

Serrano also announced that MIAA has launched its NAIA Privilege Card Program, an airport assistance scheme allowing bearers to avail of NAIA’s Meet and Assist Service. The MIAA Public Affairs Office is implementing the personalized program.

Meanwhile, the Airport Authority will introduce a Passenger Information System (PIS) to boost security at Manila’s international airport next year. PIS require international airlines heading to the Philippines to provide the airport with information on their passengers and crew two hours before they arrive, said Angel Atutubo, assistant general manager for security.

“The new system is similar to the United States and other European countries,” he said. He added that the system was already in use in Japan, China and South Korea to prevent the entry of aliens with criminal records or suspected terrorists.

hybridace101

December 3rd, 2009, 06:42 AM

Here are the pros and cons so far of PR entering into each alliance:

Star
PRO: "happy-go-lucky" into expansion
CON: ASEAN is over-represented with TG and SQ

oneworld
PRO: PR and AA have good relationships
ASEAN is under-represented
PR and CX have code-share agreements
CON: kangaroo route issues with BA
competition (and politics) with CX

SkyTeam
PRO: PR and KL have good relations
CON: GA and VN once they join will make ASEAN over-represented
PR/MNL has poor access to Europe or the US East Coast, strongholds of the SkyTeam

So what do you think PR's best shots now are of getting into an alliance if I have summed-up the foregoing correctly?

Sky Harbor

December 3rd, 2009, 07:51 AM

OT: I see somewhat of a pairing-up of "colonizer-colonist" in that post. :colgate:

AA and PR
KL and GA
BA and CX

:lol:

You forgot VN and AF. :lol:

Sou-jiro

December 3rd, 2009, 09:06 AM

Is there anyone getting the Documentary about NAIA Airport?..its just been released on DVD on nov 27? im gonna be ordering it. for $19.95:)

anyway i hope PR ends up with Skyteam.

btw a little offtopic....i think MH is too over rated.. i agree with SQ, CX, all the other four as 5 star carriers but MH can be just a four star,..ofcourse revies are always biased but m taking from personal opinions...anyone here who thinks MH? deserves 5 star rating overall as an Airline?

anyone have any MH experience?

hybridace101

December 3rd, 2009, 02:50 PM

AA is offering to buy a USD1.1 billion stake in JL: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific_business/view/1022254/1/.html .

hybridace101

December 3rd, 2009, 02:51 PM

You forgot VN and AF. :lol:

Speaking of the colony-coloniser pairings, whatever happened to Iberia's plans to fly to MNL?

Ph Man

December 3rd, 2009, 07:08 PM