A tidbit of news today, so I guess it's as good a time as any to fire up a Madison thread (as requested).

On with today's news...
The Block 115 redevelopment (the block with the Essen Haus, Come Back Inn and Hotel Ruby Marie for those familiar with the area) is all owned by developer Greg Hartmann who had orginally proposed a narrow 16-story condo tower with a number of other smaller towers also in the project. His proposal was received very coldly, so he has done a major revision of the proposal. The tallest tower now proposed for the site is just 8-floors...

http://madison-architecture.com/madarchfiles/10743.jpg

Here's the story in The Capital Times...
http://www.madison.com/tct/business//index.php?ntid=22038&ntpid=7#

But...as I recall, the buildings there were already quite pretty...

We are talking about the end of Willy Street heading towards downtown, right?

I'm really digging that design. However I'm confused about the project. Is this all one new building?

But...as I recall, the buildings there were already quite pretty...

We are talking about the end of Willy Street heading towards downtown, right?

You've got the right area. The buildings currently there (with exception to the Hotel Ruby Marie, which is the building on the corner, and has been recently improved) are severely dilapitated and not very attractive.

The Hotel Ruby Marie currently...
http://www.madisontrust.org/images/ruby.jpg

It won't be demolished because it's "historic"...
http://www.madisontrust.org/awards/01_hotel_ruby_marie.html

I'm really digging that design. However I'm confused about the project. Is this all one new building?

Nah, I think it's a bunch of small buildings (the one on the corner is already there and won't be demolished). The neighborhood planning comittee would never go for one solid building.

I should point out that everything to the corner building's left is currently one big-ass surface lot, which is stupid on the Isthmus, so this is an improvement in that sense.

I also just discovered this Block 115 website detailing the entire project...
http://www.block115.com/

Here's some images from the website above...
http://www.block115.com/photos/aerial_of_block.jpg
http://www.block115.com/images/redev_plan.gif
http://www.block115.com/photos/5a_041202.jpg
http://www.block115.com/photos/8a_041202.jpg

How could you tear down the Essen Haus? Every alum that I know (including myself) will be lining up to kick Greg Hartmann in the nuts for this one. If there ever was a Madison landmark worth saving, the Essen Haus is a good candidate. It seems to me that the city is bent on doing away with that which made it so great in the first place, the college towniness that has become so famous. I hope that one of the country's great college towns doesn't self destruct.

How could you tear down the Essen Haus? Every alum that I know (including myself) will be lining up to kick Greg Hartmann in the nuts for this one. If there ever was a Madison landmark worth saving, the Essen Haus is a good candidate. It seems to me that the city is bent on doing away with that which made it so great in the first place, the college towniness that has become so famous. I hope that one of the country's great college towns doesn't self destruct.

You've got it backwards. The city (neighborhood commissions, city council and mayor) are the ones usually fighting to preserve landmarks in Madison, not destroy them.

As fond as some older almni might be of the Essen Haus, it's a sh*thole, and needs to be torn down and replaced. Neglect has caused the building to literally rot away. The only thing the Essen Haus has going for it is memories (nothing more than getting-drunk-and-barfing-in-the-bathroom memories at that), nobody patronizes it anymore, and it's a smelly eyesore. I won't miss it.

Besides, the Essen Haus isn't going away, it's just getting newer digs.

^ Man, those pictures make me miss Madison.

You've got it backwards. The city (neighborhood commissions, city council and mayor) are the ones usually fighting to preserve landmarks in Madison, not destroy them.

As fond as some older almni might be of the Essen Haus, it's a sh*thole, and needs to be torn down and replaced. Neglect has caused the building to literally rot away. The only thing the Essen Haus has going for it is memories (nothing more than getting-drunk-and-barfing-in-the-bathroom memories at that), nobody patronizes it anymore, and it's a smelly eyesore. I won't miss it.

Besides, the Essen Haus isn't going away, it's just getting newer digs.


When I say "city", I mean "city", and all it's institutions. Including the city council, developers, residents, etc. Also, I never, ever, fought in the Essen Haus bathroom. Lastly, who would want to polka on a clean new floor anyway? It'll never be as good, and I still want to kick Greg Hartmann in the nuts.

If you remember O'Kay'z Corral on the corner to the west, it burned down a few years back, which is yet another reason something must happen to the property.

On a side note... the owner of O'Kay'z opened up a new place called High Noon Saloon in the old Buy Sell shop on East Wash. She remodelled the building and it's been expanded on a bit. It looks nice, but I haven't been inside yet. I guess they have decent live music every night.

After seeing those pictures I know where this project is now. Yes that will be a great improvement on the area. Jason, have they broke ground on met. place phase 2 yet?

After seeing those pictures I know where this project is now. Yes that will be a great improvement on the area. Jason, have they broke ground on met. place phase 2 yet?

I don't believe so.

Here's a new one starting construction in January. The 9-story final puzzle piece to an entire block redevelopment (Block 89)...

http://madison-architecture.com/madarchfiles/10891.jpg

Story:
http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/index.php?ntid=22563&ntpid=1

really cool building Jason

Wow, and it's not a condo. I was starting to think that condo's were all Madison was building. Anyway I love the design, very interesting for such a small building. Madison seems good at getting the most out of something no matter what the size. In Madison, size really doesn't matter!

That design rocks, any clue on what it will be used for and location? Damn I would love to see something like that in Milwaukee.

That design rocks, any clue on what it will be used for and location? Damn I would love to see something like that in Milwaukee.


The article said offices and retail. It's on the corner of East Main and South Pinckney streets (on the Capitol square) on block called "Block 89". The spot has been vacant for years.

That last rendering shown looks really interesting. It will be interesting to see how it turns out for real. Probably a great building, with a shitload of window shades drawn. Should still look very cool at night just the same.

Here's another angle from the Urban Land Interest (the developer) website (www.uli.com)...
http://madison-architecture.com/madarchfiles/63.jpg

Thanks for the area rendering, it seems like the best developments go into that part of Madison, I always enjoy walking down there at night. The orange building behind it already exists correct?

The orange building behind it already exists correct?
Yes, in fact it has for a few years now. I'm sure Jason can tell you what year it was completed but my guess is 2001?

I used to live in Madison so I'm familar with it, it was one of my favorite downtown for a while. My favorite part of the building is where it angles away from exterior towards the top, I think thats why it stands out to me.

what's fueling the boom in expensive condos in the heart of Madison? is it UW generated?

what's fueling the boom in expensive condos in the heart of Madison? is it UW generated?

No. It's not all UW generated. Madison (despite what the masses outside of Madison believe) is no longer just a "college town". There has been a huge biotech boom here and a lot of other interesting things happening in terms of entertainment & arts, business opportunities, etc.

The "orange building" you are all talking about is "10 East Doty". A 10-floor, 210,000 sq. ft. office building with over 700 underground stalls also developed by Urban Land Interests. It was completed in May of 2000. Here's an image from their site...

http://www.madison-architecture.com/madarchfiles/4.jpg

Thanks for the shot Jason, and for explaining the residential boom in Madison. Madison is an established city outside of the university, and it has been for some time, I think its important people see that.

By the way Jason, what do you think of the Peli designed Overture Center? Also any thoughts on the effect of the area surrounding the center?

I was going to post pics for others to judge, but I couldn't find any that would do it justice. Anyone have any?

Thanks for the shot Jason, and for explaining the residential boom in Madison. Madison is an established city outside of the university, and it has been for some time, I think its important people see that.

By the way Jason, what do you think of the Peli designed Overture Center? Also any thoughts on the effect of the area surrounding the center?

I was going to post pics for others to judge, but I couldn't find any that would do it justice. Anyone have any?

I'm not much of an artsy-fartsy type, so I'm not really benefiting from it directly, but I think it's good for putting Madison on the international arts map. It has already attracted 10 times as many mid to upper level performers as all of ther other areas venues produced combined over the last bunch of years.

A lot of folks are upset about surrounding land values skyrocketing. One guy paid like 3-5 times assessed value for a group of building across the street. These rising values have already, and will likely continue to push away the eclectic, small businesses that currently dot State Street.

Others are just flat out upset about the destruction of "historical" (crappy) buildings, and the impending doom of many others.

For the most part though, I think it is seen as positive movement in Madison development.

Architecturally... I haven't been inside of it yet. From the outside, I think it's merely acceptable at worst, nothing to get all giddy over. But then, I haven't closely examined the outside either. I'll get back to you on this.

In today's Wisconsin State Journal we learn more about a new near-downtown proposal and near-east-side project plan totalling 729 condos & apartments, nearly 100,000 sq. ft. of retail, up to 1,300 underground parking spaces and at least 1 highrise...

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/index.php?ntid=22851&ntpid=2

With Madison attracting more business, or at least having been put at the top of "business opportunity, jobs, and education" types of lists for the past 4 or so years with Forbes and Money Magazines(Madison 2004 best city by Forbes), why don't some companies that need some larger scale high-rises build them?

RANT

I know the surrounding capitol area has a height restriction because of the capitol, but that's not to say that a path of high-rises can't start forming elsewhere.

Milwaukee has 3 on the way, and those are just for living in! Yes Milwaukee is much larger, but I would say that Madison's growth and opportunity put it head to head with Milwaukee despite Milwaukee's size, as far as the "well-roundedness" of each city goes. Milwaukee is regrouping at a steady pace with building all the known new stuff, and it's good to see the metro population climbing nicely even though the city limits is dropping(not as fast though!). But there is an obvious depression recorded. IE: Unusually frequent run down areas, 1990 714,000 city limits, 2000 628,000 city limits, 2004 585,000 city limits.

I mean, it's good that Madison is exploding, EVEN besides UW, even besides the younger crowd having entertainment(clubs, all concerts, sports, wrestling, etc. comes there)....I mean, the bottom half of Wisconsin, all I seem to hear with most younger kids that plan on staying in WI for awhile, "I'm moving to Madison." Hell, I'm an hour from Madison, and I go there at least once a week. I just don't want to live there.. lack of privacy. It's also retarted expensive to live there. Fun place to go though!

I mean, the bottom half of Wisconsin, all I seem to hear with most younger kids that plan on staying in WI for awhile, "I'm moving to Madison." Hell, I'm an hour from Madison, and I go there at least once a week. I just don't want to live there.. lack of privacy. It's also retarted expensive to live there. Fun place to go though!

Growing up in Madison, it seems like the people I meet who want to live there from southern Wisconsin haven't really traveled many other places. It seems Madison is a destination because its better then what they have, or have had and experienced growing up in their life. I'm not saying this is fact, just a matter of opinion from growing up in Madison.

I feel if young residents from Wisconsin gave Milwaukee a chance, and crossed the phobia of it, they'd realized that for younger crowds (I'm speaking more so of young proffesionals graduating college) Milwaukee has a much better environment. This is why I support the growth UW-Milwaukee, and the current plans for the university to create an identity of their own, away from the UW system.

As far as businesses setting up shop in downtown Madison, I say why not as well. Of course I'd prefer them to be in Milwaukee, but when we're talking local Madison businesses, it only makes sense for them to be located downtown Madison. I feel the height-restriction does have a lot to do with the lack of headquarters downtown however. This is evident when you look at the boom of Middletons business park, could you imagine all those high-rises being located in downtown Madison?

Sorry I'm just ranting as well...

As far as experiencing this or that, while growing up through childhood and going on numerous summer vacations with my parents, I can say that I've basically been to every major city and national park West of the Mississippi river. Lived in Spokane, WA for a few months, and my g/f's grandparents and most of the extended family live in the Twin Cities, so we've done some holiday driving through "Spaghetti Junction." Girlfriend's parents live in St. Croix County however though, a ways away from the border.

I don't mind Madison and Milwaukee because I am indeed fairly simple-minded. As long as I can work my way towards buying some expensive toys and meet a few nice people along the way, I'm happy.

> I feel if young residents from Wisconsin gave Milwaukee a chance
My ideal plan currently is to live in a very small town just down the road from a 10-20k'er somewhere evenly inbetween Milwaukee and Madison so I do not have to travel more than an hour(preferably 45 minutes) to each respective metropolitan area/city vicinity. This is mostly due to the fact that, yes I really love Madison, but I have faith in Milwaukee and I want access that isn't a pain in the ass to do often if I need to do it.

Privacy + access


Speaking of Milwaukee, can someone give me a rundown(get it) on Milwaukee's Northwest side?

Speaking of Milwaukee, can someone give me a rundown(get it) on Milwaukee's Northwest side?

I'm sure someone in the Milwaukee thread would love to. ;)

I live on the northwest side

We lost blockbuster...amoung other businesses recently. However, they are going to put in new stores and such in these vacant lots. There is an abandoned Big K store on Good Hope which they are changing into a Home Depot. Northridge is also being redevoloped into offices, big box stores...etc. Right now, they have Pickn Save and Menards...which moved from its location on 76st. They also recently built a bunch of large suburban style homes off 91st.
I think crime is getting worse...which isnt strange considering the flight from the Northside, which is probally the worst part of town into the Northwest side, which has inexpensive housing and apartments. Across Mill Road going south is definely where the bad parts are forming....almost all apartments. I drove by going home the other day and trash is stacked to the top of most dumsters..crap is laying all over the ground. This is where most of the crime happens in the area. Ill be happy to answer anyother questions ya got...or ask Markitect in the Milwaukee Thread--he knows alot about Milwaukee develpment.

As far as experiencing this or that, while growing up through childhood and going on numerous summer vacations with my parents, I can say that I've basically been to every major city and national park West of the Mississippi river. Lived in Spokane, WA for a few months, and my g/f's grandparents and most of the extended family live in the Twin Cities, so we've done some holiday driving through "Spaghetti Junction." Girlfriend's parents live in St. Croix County however though, a ways away from the border.

I don't mind Madison and Milwaukee because I am indeed fairly simple-minded. As long as I can work my way towards buying some expensive toys and meet a few nice people along the way, I'm happy.

> I feel if young residents from Wisconsin gave Milwaukee a chance
My ideal plan currently is to live in a very small town just down the road from a 10-20k'er somewhere evenly inbetween Milwaukee and Madison so I do not have to travel more than an hour(preferably 45 minutes) to each respective metropolitan area/city vicinity. This is mostly due to the fact that, yes I really love Madison, but I have faith in Milwaukee and I want access that isn't a pain in the ass to do often if I need to do it.

Privacy + access


Speaking of Milwaukee, can someone give me a rundown(get it) on Milwaukee's Northwest side?

I hope you didn't take what I was saying directly towards you. I was pointing out the people I was familar with growing up, I hope no offense was taken.

I hope you didn't take what I was saying directly towards you. I was pointing out the people I was familar with growing up, I hope no offense was taken.

Absolutely none taken. :)

what's fueling the boom in expensive condos in the heart of Madison? is it UW generated?

Here's a link in the Milwaukee Biz Journal that explains some of it.
CLICK FOR LINK (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/12/27/focus2.html)

Heres a part of it:
The growth has come with the rise of new downtown Madison attractions -- including the $67 million Monona Terrace convention center, $205 million Overture Center, and new restaurants -- coupled with the popularity of traditional Madison destinations like Lake Monona and Lake Mendota, the Capitol building and State Street.

I was in Madison today and stopped by the new Overture Center.

UNBELIEVABLE.

Here's a link from the Biz Journal again (sorry about all the links)
CLICK HERE (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/12/27/focus1.html)

Also a quote from the article:
Just hours after the Chicago Symphony Orchestra played the last note of its Sept. 30th concert at Madison's new Overture Center for the Arts, Robert D'Angelo started hearing from booking agents for the New York Philharmonic, the Boston Symphony Orchestra and the Cleveland Orchestra.

Ok... I love Milwaukee, I really do. It's my "second home", my "home-away-from-home", I'd live there if I didn't live here (Madison), BUT... there's already a Milwaukee thread. I'd like to keep it to Madison-talk in here or else it becomes a melting pot and we might lose our "sticky" status. Thanks for your understanding.

BTW, Joe Flad (whom I used to work for - sort of), of Flad & Associates (Madison, WI architecture firm) passed away on 12/26.

I was in Madison today and stopped by the new Overture Center.

UNBELIEVABLE.

Here's a link from the Biz Journal again (sorry about all the links)
CLICK HERE (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/12/27/focus1.html)

Also a quote from the article:
Just hours after the Chicago Symphony Orchestra played the last note of its Sept. 30th concert at Madison's new Overture Center for the Arts, Robert D'Angelo started hearing from booking agents for the New York Philharmonic, the Boston Symphony Orchestra and the Cleveland Orchestra.

I'm glad you got to see it. I haven't seen much of it yet, mostly just the outside, which is designed to fit in, so it can't be completely appreciated without seeing the whole package. I heard the accoustics are amazing. I'm going to go check out a show schedule now for an excuse to see for myself.

Way to get us back in line, I forget we were on a Madison Thread :)
I too heard the acoustics at the Overture were amazing, I'm hoping to see a show ASAP.

Wow, that new glass building going up on the Capitol Square is really great. Looking at these pics makes me miss Madison.

We need to start up a "rate our skyline" thread on Madison. The skyline probably won't score the highest marks because it's so low, but the thread could still be useful to introduce and turn people on to the city.

Yeah it is kind of small:
http://img41.exs.cx/img41/1188/capitolmadisonnight015jm.jpg

But it is also really active and pretty:
http://img41.exs.cx/img41/6443/madcity47pz.gif


Downtown itself is just in a beautiful location. See the following taken from the Alliant Energy Center(buildings 1 and 2 most popular) website:
http://alliantenergycenter.com/img/aerial_view.jpg

That road that starts at the number 7 then veers off hard to the left towards downtown goes right towards the number 13 before gliding towards the center of the isthmus as it makes its way over to the east side of Madison(from the West).

I go that way to the East side from the West side a lot just for something different instead of the beltline all the time. Right now the trees have no leaves so there are plenty of picture taking vantage points from that road(Highway 151). Right before the road goes out onto the lakes you see some treeless patches on the right. Those are areas where a lot of the skyline photos across the lake come from. I'll try to get some more; daytime/night time.

Those are nice pics.

How is the arts district construction coming along?

That road that starts at the number 7 then veers off hard to the left towards downtown goes right towards the number 13 before gliding towards the center of the isthmus as it makes its way over to the east side of Madison(from the West).

I know this is being really picky, but Rimrock Road (the road near #7) doesn't veer left into John Nolen Drive (the road that goes over the water headed downtown). The two roads simply meet at an intersection just off to the right side of the screen.

Also, the road going downtown (John Nolen Drive) doesn't take off to the East side of Madison, it meets with Wilson St., Williamson St., & N. Blair St. at an intersection just past downtown. Williamson heads east, and so does E. Washington Ave. if you go a couple of block down N. Blair.

Those are nice pics.

How is the arts district construction coming along?

Not sure what you mean by "arts district" (there isn't one), but there is the Overture Center for the Arts, which recently opened to the public. I think we've discussed it in this thread a few times already.

Jason do you have any recent pics of the new condo that was constructed on the street right across the capitol building on the north side of the square? I don't remember the name of it but the last time I was downtown they were knocking down a small building on the corner. Anyway I haven't ever seen a rendering or a pic of this building since the day I was there. Sure like to see one now if you can? If I remember correctly the building was to be 10 to 12 stories high.

Kopp's site project moves ahead

A story by Mike Ivey
January 25, 2005

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It didn't come easily but a proposed $24 million redevelopment of the former Ken Kopp grocery site on the 1800 block of Monroe Street has been OK'd by the city Plan Commission.

Despite concerns from some neighbors about the height of the five-story condo/commercial project - and the placement of affordable housing units from commission members - a rezoning for the complex project was approved Monday night on a 6-3 vote.

The Monroe Commons project calls for 51 residential units built over 12,000 square feet of ground floor retail space. There would be 24 public carport-like parking spaces underneath the condos facing Harrison Street, where the parking lot for the former grocery store is located.

Another 105 parking spaces would be provided in a ramp, with 38 spaces available for the public. Spaces in the ramp are designed to replace the city-owned "Evergreen lot" which is being sold to the developers. The developers would also create a pedestrian plaza at the triangular intersection of Monroe Street and West Lawn Avenue.

Although the near west-side neighborhood has been clamoring for a grocery to replace Ken Kopp's, which closed four years ago, some residents spoke against the project Monday. Among them was UW-Madison professor Dan Anderson, who said it was simply too large for the site.
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"This is out of scale with the other buildings on the block and sets a precedent for even bigger buildings on Monroe or Regent streets," he warned.

But the developers have said the project must be that large in order to make a grocery financially feasible. They initially requested $3.13 million in tax incremental financing, a request that has since been reduced because of city subsidy limits.

Despite those issues, the project has the support of the Vilas and Dudgeon-Monroe neighborhood associations, along with the Monroe Street Grocery Cooperative. Those groups said they will not support a redevelopment that does not include a grocery.

"Without a grocery store, this thing would not be alive," said Brad Ricker of the co-op group, which has over 700 members.

The project is being developed by Monroe Neighbors LLC. The group includes Trio Development (Craig Hungerford, Jill Hochhausen, Bryce Armstrong); Bert Slinde of the Slinde Company; FSKR LLC (Fred Miller, Sandy Miller); and Keller Development LLC (Tom Keller, Dave Keller).

Two commission members also grilled the developers about the lack of affordable housing units. The city's inclusionary zoning (IZ) ordinance requires 15 percent of new units be priced for moderate income buyers. The ordinance would require seven units at Monroe Commons.

The developers are including three "IZ" units but are seeking a waiver on the balance because of the economic difficulties of the project. They would pay $186,000 into an affordable housing trust fund to secure the waiver.

But commissioner Sarah Davis asked why the developers had clustered the three affordable units together in one corner of the project rather than dispersing them as the ordinance requires. She also asked why the developer couldn't cut corners to include more affordable units.

"I feel this is my duty as a commissioner to follow the ordinance," said Davis, one of three commissioners to vote against the project.

Dave Keller countered that his development group has gone above and beyond in trying to keep all parties happy.

"We've done the best we can to get the support of as many people as possible," he said.

Ald. Ken Golden, who represents the neighborhood, spoke in support of the project and criticized those who had called for a delay in the approval or for a smaller building.

"This project is balancing on an I-beam," he said.

The project still needs the approval of the full Common Council, where the affordable housing and TIF issues will likely be rehashed.

"With all due respect to the developers and the alder, this project is a mess," said commissioner Ald. Brenda Konkel, who also voted against it.

Big Box rules OK'd : Also Monday night the commission approved the so-called "Big Box" ordinance.

More than two years in the making, the ordinance would limit the footprint size of large retail establishments to 100,000 square feet, limit the size of parking lots, require more windows and make the layouts more pedestrian-friendly.

Although the ordinance has faced opposition from business and retail interests, Ald. Robbie Webber said it was time to move forward.

"There has been sufficient time to address everyone's concerns," she said.

More than 100 other communities have similar ordinances, some much stronger than Madison's. For example, Bozeman, Mont., prohibits big boxes over 65,000 square feet and Rockville, Md., limits them to 75,000 square feet.

In other action the commission:

• Approved a rezoning for the redevelopment of the Hilldale Shopping Center. The first phase of the project involves tearing down the U.S. Bank and Firestone auto store buildings. The developers, Joseph Freed & Associates of Palatine, Ill., would then construct 40 residential units fronting Midvale Boulevard, a 600-stall parking ramp and 70,000 square feet of new retail space. The project would meet the city's affordable housing ordinance by including six units for moderate income buyers.

• Approved the "Linden Park" development, 261 single family home sites in the new Pioneer Road neighborhood on the city's far west side. The project from Veridian Homes will be built in phases over the next four to eight years. The development would comply with the city's inclusionary zoning ordinance by including 40 affordable homes.

• Approved the Drake Caf at 1336 Drake St. across from the Vilas Park zoo, a site formerly home to several failed convenience stores. The owners, Robert Shapiro and Katherine Zirbel, said they plan to operate from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. and include some grocery sales. The Drake Street Caf would include an outdoor seating area.

• Approved a plan to move the city toward an annexation agreement with the town of Blooming Grove. The annexation would take place in phases over the next 20 or more years.

• Approved a new Madison police station at 809 S. Thompson Drive on the far east side. The 14,000-square-foot station would include 87 surface parking spaces.

E-mail: mivey@madison.com

Published: 9:26 AM 1/25/05

http://www.madison.com/images/articles/tct/2005/01/25/11974.jpg

I hope you're working on that image Jason, it didn't work!

http://www.madison.com/images/articles/tct/2005/01/25/11974.jpg

copy and paste the original into your browser

Jason do you have any recent pics of the new condo that was constructed on the street right across the capitol building on the north side of the square? I don't remember the name of it but the last time I was downtown they were knocking down a small building on the corner. Anyway I haven't ever seen a rendering or a pic of this building since the day I was there. Sure like to see one now if you can? If I remember correctly the building was to be 10 to 12 stories high.

If I'm not mistaken, you are speaking of 100 Wisconsin Ave. This image is almost a year old now...
http://s97833625.onlinehome.us/mambo/madarchfiles/random//017_01.jpg
I don't have anything more recent.

If I'm not mistaken, you are speaking of 100 Wisconsin Ave. This image is almost a year old now...
http://s97833625.onlinehome.us/mambo/madarchfiles/random//017_01.jpg
I don't have anything more recent.
I guess that will have to do then, thanks!

I gotta to tell yah, I know renderings are most of the time decieveing but I think I'm in love with that one you just posted! wow

There is far too much information in the following links for me to summarize responsibly, so if you are interested, please take a look. It is regarding the UW-Madison campus plan.

This is the article in The Cap Times: (http://www.madison.com/tct/news/stories/index.php?ntid=26567&ntpid=0):

A Time to Build: Big plan on campus
Fewer bad buildings, more postcard memories; Community will get to hear all about it

By Ron McCrea
January 29, 2005

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Van Hise Hall looms over the campus. Bascom Hall is in the foreground.
Van Hise Hall looms over the campus. Bascom Hall is in the foreground. (Photo by Jeff Miller/UW News)

Related articles

green arrow Public Meetings

green arrow Containment policy

green arrow A time to build: Reports will explore shape of the new city

green arrow A whole lot of building going on


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The "fearless sifting and winnowing" that is part of the historic motto of the University of Wisconsin-Madison will take on a whole new meaning this year as the state's flagship campus prepares to embark on a far-reaching - some will say ruthless - editing and revision of its buildings and grounds.

The result may well be a major weeding out of problem buildings over the next 10 to 20 years.

Prominent candidates announced this week include Van Hise Hall and Union South. Previously announced were the Mosse Humanities Building, Ogg Hall dormitory, and the Peterson Office Building. They are among two dozen buildings marked in red for potential demolition on a map that may be seen in a PowerPoint presentation on the UW's Web site, www.uc.wisc.edu/masterplan.

But Associate Vice Chancellor Alan Fish stresses that culling bad buildings is just one of the sweeping strategies the UW will employ to make the future campus more functional and appealing - appealing to everyone but especially to the research community, which Chancellor John Wiley has identified as the university's key to the future.

The 2005 Campus Master Plan will be outlined beginning next week in a series of town hall and neighborhood meetings. (See list)
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"The plan is not about buildings, it's about people," Fish said in an interview. "It's about how they work and where they live and how they get around. It's about how they enjoy their day."

That means making the Madison campus more functional for those who work on it, friendlier to those who live on it, and more memorable to all who pass through it. The UW of tomorrow, Fish said, will offer many more postcard memories than it does today.

The campus facilities manager likes to speak of an ice age when he talks about the physical future of the Madison campus. Not the next ice age: the last one. The one that scooped out Lake Mendota and carved the university's three-mile shoreline. The one that created Picnic Point. The one that bulldozed moraines and piled up the glacial drumlins now known as Bascom Hill and Eagle Heights.

"Our setting is our greatest asset," Fish says. "It is our number one branding advantage."

The new master plan, which is being developed with the help of the Ayers Saint Gross campus planning firm of Baltimore, will seek to capitalize on that advantage. Among the key themes:

• Preserve and enhance natural areas. This will be done in part by "reducing our physical impact on the land," according to Gary Brown, director of the Office of Planning and Landscape Architecture. One goal is to reclaim some of the 98 acres - more than 10 percent of the 933-acre campus - that are now occupied by surface parking lots. "If we go up three levels, we capture 65 acres," says Fish, referring to strategically built parking decks. Fish says he can foresee a day when the sprawling Lot 60 is restored to parkland.

• Reopen lake views. Over the years, the officials say, many sparkling views of Lake Mendota have become blocked by the growth of trees and brush. Careful forestry could make those views available again to residents of the lakeshore dorms and Elizabeth Waters Hall, which hugs the hillside of Bascom; to strollers along the Howard Temin Lakeshore Path; and to visitors to Picnic Point, who now cannot use most of the point for picnicking if they want to see the lake.

• Create "nice places." The plan calls for the creation of new malls, plazas and quadrangles. If Van Hise were gone, Fish says, the university could build "Spanish Steps" down the back of Bascom Hill, opening onto a new quad that would stretch to the picturesque Horse Barn on the agricultural campus. Linden and Charter streets would become essentially a pedestrian and bicycle mall.

• Group buildings into "neighborhoods." Examples would be the engineering campus, the arts and humanities campus, the health sciences campus and the agriculture and life sciences campus. Under the plan, new buildings would draw on the best architectural traditions of the past to give each neighborhood a distinctive identity.

"The concept of campus districts reaches back to the 1908 plan by Laird and Cret where they defined building styles and materials for certain areas of campus," Brown says. "We hope to enliven that idea again and build upon it as we develop new buildings, develop design guidelines for the campus and develop some of our existing stock."

Laid and Cret - Philadelphia planners Warren Powers Laird and Paul Philippe Cret - worked under the UW's first official campus architect, Arthur Peabody, at the turn of the last century. Peabody's legacy includes some of the most cherished UW buildings, such as the Memorial Union, the Bascom Hill carillon tower and the Field House.

Now a new architect is coming to take Peabody's role, exactly 100 years after he was appointed in 1905. Interviews with candidates for university architect took place earlier this month and an announcement is expected in March.

The university architect will be charged with designing new buildings to harmonize with the best of the old, and also with designing signs, lighting and transit stops that will be common to the entire campus, pulling it together and declaring its edges and boundaries.

The 2005 master plan may be the most complex and comprehensive undertaking of its kind in the university's history. The numbers of people on and off campus who will be included in the process between now and September are so large that a full-time program assistant, Gwen Drury, has been at work since August just to schedule meetings and take comments.

But arching over the process is a sense of anticipation.

Chancellor Wiley says, "This moment allows us to use our imaginations to envision a campus that is more workable, more livable and more sustainable - and one that will carry our teaching, research and service mission into the future."


This image accompanied the article:
http://www.madison.com/images/articles/tct/2005/01/31/12234.jpg

Here is a link to the campus plan website:
http://www.uc.wisc.edu/masterplan/

I found some renderings of the approved (or is it U/C, I don't remember) Madison Mark. Just thought you guys might want to check them out.

I'm really into the design, what do you guys think?

http://img177.exs.cx/img177/6963/madisonmark8ed.jpg
http://img174.exs.cx/img174/9315/madisonmark33iz.jpg
http://img174.exs.cx/img174/1803/madisonmark43dw.jpg
http://http://img174.exs.cx/img174/2466/madisonmark21sx.jpg

I found some renderings of the approved (or is it U/C, I don't remember) Madison Mark. Just thought you guys might want to check them out.

I'm really into the design, what do you guys think?


Thanks for those. They're not of the Madison Mark though (or a very old concept). The Mark is almost done and looks nothing like that. I'll try to find (or I'll just snap some) photos of it.

Here's one...
http://www.journalism.wisc.edu/j417/fall04/Enrichment/Images/realestatepic3.jpg
(source: http://www.journalism.wisc.edu/j417/fall04/Enrichment/Articles/realestate2.htm)

Here's the Madison Mark's website (they have some really cool 3D fly and drive-byes of the building)...
http://www.themadisonmark.com/
http://www.themadisonmark.com/images/splash_photo_400_2.jpg

Thanks for the correction Jason, no clue why I said that was Madison Mark. Those are renderings of the approved (according to Emporis) Capitol West--Block 51 mixed used development.

Here's a link to the site:
click for link (http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=%22capitol+west%22+Madison+development&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D7cd4440eaf1961e6%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery%3D%2522capitol%2Bwest%2522%2BMadison%2Bdevelopment%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.millerhull.com%252Fhtml%252Fprogress%252Fmadison.htm%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSCPToolbarNS%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millerhull.com%2Fhtml%2Fprogress%2Fmadison.htm)

I see. I didn't recognize it as the Capital West plan. I've only seen land-use drawings, no renderings. The Alexander Company(http://www.alexandercompany.com) is behind this development, and the land is owned by Meriter. Here's a snippet from their website...

The Alexander Company’s $110 million dollar, mixed-use development of Capitol West will create a vibrant urban neighborhood in the center of Madison, Wisconsin, where people can feel at home, downtown. Just three blocks from the Capitol square, the entire property (including a 2.16 acre redevelopment site) encompasses 4.46 acres – a city block bordered by West Washington Avenue, and South Henry, West Main and South Broom Streets. Capitol West is being carefully developed based upon the findings of an urban housing case study completed by The Alexander Company and a nationally distinguished team of architects. The site plan and architecture is being guided by the integration of natural light, air and ventilation into the block and into the homes. Buildings will be sited to maximize views and site lines. The use of features such as terraces, roof gardens and fold-away living room walls will link the outdoors with the interior living spaces. The design will be clean, contemporary and modern. Common areas will be urban parks with linkages between neighborhood shopping, homes and convenient, covered parking. Residents will swim in the heated, outdoor lap pool, meet in the community’s winter garden and exercise in the fitness center.

A diversity of housing types at varying price points will provide homeowners with a housing option that best meets their individual needs and desires. Approximately 375 to 400 housing units will range in size from 650 square feet to 4,000 square feet and are estimated to be priced between $120,000 and $800,000.

In addition to the creation of housing, approximately 17,000 to 18,000 square feet of neighborhood retail space for cafes, sandwich shops, dry cleaners and the like will be included at strategic locations to support the redevelopment and the surrounding neighborhood.

Parking will be provided in multi-level subgrade structure and in the existing parking garage. In addition, to creating parking for the housing and neighborhood retail, the redevelopment plan includes the creation of approximately 420 public parking spaces for off site uses to meet the demands identified in the West Washington Corridor Parking Study.

For more information please go to www.capitol-west.com


...and to answer your question about it's status. A lot of demolition needs to be done before any work can begin there, and all of those old houses are still filled with renters (students), so nothing has started yet.

12-story housing gets ok'd today. The neighborhood is already the most dense in Madison.

High rise student housing OK'd

A story by Mike Ivey
February 8, 2005

Despite concerns about tearing down five 19th century homes and blocking views of the Capitol, the city Plan Commission approved a 12-story student apartment tower at the corner of West Gorham and Broom streets.

The $14 million project from Karl Madsen and Mike Fisher of Great Dane Development is the latest in a series of high-rises near where West Gorham turns into University Avenue. Monday night, the commission approved a rezoning for the project on a 5-3 vote.

The building will provide 115 housing units, including 18 affordable units to meet the city inclusionary zoning ordinance. It has 78 underground parking spaces and 142 bicycle and moped parking spaces. Commercial space is planned for the first floor.

Much of the opposition centered on the five older homes now being rented as student apartments. While the buildings are not considered historic they have elements worth preserving, according to Jim Skrentny of the Capitol Neighborhoods Association.

"Several of them are in very good shape inside, with the original woodwork still intact," he said.

The developers are attempting to move two of the homes to other sites in the downtown but have been unable to secure a site for the largest home, at 409 W. Gorham St.

"We're doing everything we can to try and save these buildings, " said Sonya Newenhouse of the Madison Environmental Group, which is working with the developers.

Still, that was not enough to satisfy downtown resident Ledell Zellers, who said the project did not meet the criteria of the city's demolition ordinance.

"The ordinance does not say you can tear down homes just to have a larger income," she said, suggesting that the developers overpaid for the properties. They are paying about $2.5 million for the five properties, according to previous reports.

Zellers also criticized the project for failing to meet city guidelines regarding building heights. The area in question is part of a special zoning district that limits buildings to 10 stories. Two additional bonus stories can be granted, however, if the project is considered "extraordinary."

"This is not a building of extraordinary design," said Zellers.

But city planning unit director Brad Murphy said the project was the "best we've seen" of the several student high-rises built recently near campus. The top three stories of the buildings are finished in glass and stepped back from the lower stories to lessen the massing effect.

The 12-story "Aberdeen," with its distinctive copper top, occupies the other end of the 400 block of West Gorham Street. It was also granted two bonus stories by city officials.

Attorney Ron Trachtenberg, representing the developers, argued that having more student high-rise housing will take pressure off existing residential neighborhoods near the downtown. He said homes there are being purchased by families and rehabilitated.

"This is a very good-looking building that will provide needed student housing and complete the block," he said.

Concerns also were raised that the building will partially obstruct views of the Capitol, although the project does not technically violate the city Capitol View preservation ordinance which prevents any building from being taller than 187 feet.

Commission member Ald. Brenda Konkel, who cast one of the "no" votes, said she was uncomfortable with many aspects of the project, including the granting of the bonus stories, the demolition issue and the Capitol view question.

"I just find it difficult to see how this meets all of those ordinances," she said.

But commissioner Ald. Jean MacCubbin, who cast a key vote in support of the project, said the downtown is continuing to evolve with newer tall buildings replacing former single family homes.

"We need to start getting used to this," she said.

Rents will range from $616 a month for a studio to $2,500 for a four-bedroom apartment. Construction could begin this summer with completion by July 2006.

Troy Gardens OK'd: Also Monday night the commission approved a plan for 30 new condominium units, open space and community gardens along the north side of the 500 and 600 blocks of Troy Drive on the city's north side.

The project from the Madison Area Community Development Land Trust will make 20 of those units available for lower income residents. It's part of a long-range planning effort to redevelop 31 acres formerly owned by the state of Wisconsin as part of the Mendota Mental Health Center.

"I'm very proud to have this in my district," said commission member Ald. Paul Van Rooy. "It's going to be a great development."

Also the commission:

• Approved a three-story, 51-unit apartment building east of Interstate 90 at 734 Jupiter Drive, near the intersection with Cottage Grove Road. The project is from Jeff Wickline and Kevin Shipley and Lake City Construction Group.

• Approved the Interstate Commerce Park west of Interstate 90-94 at Hoepker Road on the city's far north side. The project is from John Brigham and Brigham Woods Corp. and Rice Association.

• Approved a child care and nursery in a single family home at 9 Merrill Crest Drive on the west side for the Lighthouse Church.

E-mail: mivey@madison.com

does Madison have alot of buildings with decks on the roof? I think it would be cool in Madison to have lots of these so people could grill, swim, party all having views of the lake and Capitol building.

ReddAlert -- some of the higher buildings have areas where people can hang out. With respect to the houses there, the situation is different because many of them are A-frames, which aren't as amenable to roof-top decks. Thus, it's not like Chicago in that sense, where the flat roof-tops of many homes allow for that.

However, I can say this: Madison is a serious porch town. Many, many houses have them. I've even known people (including myself) who've factored in the quality of a porch in making the decision whether to rent a particular place. People definitely like to hang out on their porches and grill out or whatever may be the case. It creates a really nice atmosphere, too. When I used to live kitty-corner from the Kohl Center, I can't tell you how many random people my friends and I met purely by virtue of hanging out on our porch. It's a lot of fun.

High rise student housing OK'd

A story by Mike Ivey
February 8, 2005

Despite concerns about tearing down five 19th century homes and blocking views of the Capitol, the city Plan Commission approved a 12-story student apartment tower at the corner of West Gorham and Broom streets.

Good lord, anything better than the garbage that stands at that bend in the road right now would be "extraordinary." The one with the copper roof must seriously be the ugliest thing I've ever seen. But hey, I guess it's an improvement over La Ciel.

This is probably a question I could easily answer myself by going back through the thread, but what's happening with the Burger King site on Lake and University? That Burger King was a favorite drunken haunt during my college days. Probably the most trashed I've ever been in in a public place was in that establishment, gobbling Whoppers.

However, I can say this: Madison is a serious porch town. Many, many houses have them. I've even known people (including myself) who've factored in the quality of a porch in making the decision whether to rent a particular place. People definitely like to hang out on their porches and grill out or whatever may be the case. It creates a really nice atmosphere, too. When I used to live kitty-corner from the Kohl Center, I can't tell you how many random people my friends and I met purely by virtue of hanging out on our porch. It's a lot of fun.

You betcha. The porches in my college pads were really the living room of the house during nice-weather months. We would sit there for hours late into the night. Nothing beats the Madison college dive experience. I can't believe I lived in some of these dumps, though.

Nothing beats the Madison college dive experience. I can't believe I lived in some of these dumps, though.

Haha, so true... I remember one place I lived in had paneling everywhere. My bedroom floor sloped downward and was covered in cheap maroon indoor/outdoor carpeting.

They're getting rid of the Burger King? I hadn't heard about that.

High rise student housing OK'd

A story by Mike Ivey
February 8, 2005

Despite concerns about tearing down five 19th century homes and blocking views of the Capitol, the city Plan Commission approved a 12-story student apartment tower at the corner of West Gorham and Broom streets.

Good lord, anything better than the garbage that stands at that bend in the road right now would be "extraordinary." The one with the copper roof must seriously be the ugliest thing I've ever seen. But hey, I guess it's an improvement over La Ciel.

This is probably a question I could easily answer myself by going back through the thread, but what's happening with the Burger King site on Lake and University? That Burger King was a favorite drunken haunt during my college days. Probably the most trashed I've ever been in in a public place was in that establishment, gobbling Whoppers.


The top of the Aberdeen is pretty ugly, IMO.

There's a building called "The Varsity" or something like that going in where the old BK was. I'm not exactly sure what it is yet. It's about 4-stories tall. The drawing on the construction site makes it appear to be 1st floor retail and upstairs apartments.

Quick question for those currently enrolled in UW Madison or otherwise familiar with it: what are the rents like these days for student apartments?

The reason I ask is that I knew of several dive landlords who sold off their dumpy student apartments once more student high-rises started going up. They knew that the Downtown housing market was changing, and that soon they would have to either do better maintanence on their properties (imagine that!) or charge lower rents.

Economics 101: when supply goes up and demand stays the same, prices fall. So, with more supply in quality student housing, have the prices fallen on the really crappy student flats? Especially around Mifflin Street, Dayton, West Wash, etc?

I was living in two bedroom cramped roach-infested shitholes on the east side of campus for about $600/mo in the late 1990s. But I had the time of my life in those shitholes.

Quick question for those currently enrolled in UW Madison or otherwise familiar with it: what are the rents like these days for student apartments?

The reason I ask is that I knew of several dive landlords who sold off their dumpy student apartments once more student high-rises started going up. They knew that the Downtown housing market was changing, and that soon they would have to either do better maintanence on their properties (imagine that!) or charge lower rents.

Economics 101: when supply goes up and demand stays the same, prices fall. So, with more supply in quality student housing, have the prices fallen on the really crappy student flats? Especially around Mifflin Street, Dayton, West Wash, etc?

I was living in two bedroom cramped roach-infested shitholes on the east side of campus for about $600/mo in the late 1990s. But I had the time of my life in those shitholes.

A guy that works for me that lives near campus (not directly on campus) lives in a 1 bedroom, kitchen-against-the wall, 600-sq-ft shithole, and it runs him about $500/month (electric not included). Another person I know recently paid about $400/month near campus for 1-room/efficieny w/electric included.

Because of this thread...
http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=179325

I felt oblicated to post a rendering of the old Buy-Sell Shop on E. Wash that's being upgraded/expanded right now:
http://www.thebrassringmadison.com/701%20East%20Wash%20Rendering_1.jpg
Anyone familiar with the building would agree that this is an improvement. It's now an entertainment destination.

I also mentioned I would get around to posting more about Union Corners and the Don Miller redevelopment. I'll try to get to it this weekend.

There used to be a resale shop in that building. It was a dump, but that guy sold some great stuff. We bought nintendo games there for 2 bucks a pop that provided hours of endless entertainment in the college pad. Does the shop still exist somewhere else?

There used to be a resale shop in that building. It was a dump, but that guy sold some great stuff. We bought nintendo games there for 2 bucks a pop that provided hours of endless entertainment in the college pad. Does the shop still exist somewhere else?

It's down E. Wash further. Next to Bev's diner, or something like that.

When I say "city", I mean "city", and all it's institutions. Including the city council, developers, residents, etc. Also, I never, ever, fought in the Essen Haus bathroom. Lastly, who would want to polka on a clean new floor anyway? It'll never be as good, and I still want to kick Greg Hartmann in the nuts.

Nice to see everyone taking so much interest in the project.

The kicking of the nuts is kind of harsh but I respect or opinion.

Let's not forget who put the Essen Haus up for sale.
I am not forcing anyone to do anything.

A tidbit of news today, so I guess it's as good a time as any to fire up a Madison thread (as requested).

On with today's news...
The Block 115 redevelopment (the block with the Essen Haus, Come Back Inn and Hotel Ruby Marie for those familiar with the area) is all owned by developer Greg Hartmann who had orginally proposed a narrow 16-story condo tower with a number of other smaller towers also in the project. His proposal was received very coldly, so he has done a major revision of the proposal. The tallest tower now proposed for the site is just 8-floors...

http://madison-architecture.com/madarchfiles/10743.jpg

Here's the story in The Capital Times...
http://www.madison.com/tct/business//index.php?ntid=22038&ntpid=7#

We have updated the perspectives. Enjoy.
www.Block115.com

I'm really digging that design. However I'm confused about the project. Is this all one new building?

We have 5 buildings total.

1 of the buildings will be a historic home that we move to the site.

Anyone ever think that Madison will ever get a skyscraper, or at least a building over 20 floors, a ways from the Capitol?

The kicking of the nuts is kind of harsh but I respect or opinion.
ROTFL, Greg, you're a better man then me! I would've told him what was what.

Thanks for the links for the new drawings. By the way, this pic is exciting, check out that development.
http://www.block115.com/photos/3a_041202.jpg

YEAH That's what I'm talkin bout! Right there!

Eastsider your the best

very cool pic Eastsider..quite dense. I dig it, my friend.

As for the question asked by Badgers (by the way, welcome to the forum! My alias is ReddAlert...you can call me Doug)

I think that Madison will eventually get some....when space on the isthmus runs out IMO. I skyscraper (probally a small one) would offer spectacular views of the isthmus, capitol building, lakes, citylife...etc. I think this would be a great idea. Then again...having a low rise city makes the city unique, with its cool proposals. Which do you guys prefer? I think Id rather have a nice low rise city with a couple of hi rises.

We have 5 buildings total.

1 of the buildings will be a historic home that we move to the site.

Glad to see you here Greg. I've been reading your interraction on The Daily page, but haven't participated. I am in full support of the development, and look forward to seeing it come along.

20+ story buildings are not in Madison's forseeable future. City ordinance and strong support will prevent it. Besides, it contributes to Madison's evenly-distributed density, contributing to it's unique (small city) urban-fabric. There is no need for sore-thumbs (tall buildings) in Madison.

^agreed

Glad to see you here Greg. I've been reading your interraction on The Daily page, but haven't participated. I am in full support of the development, and look forward to seeing it come along.

I can use all the support available. If possible, make it to the public meetings.

Greg,

I also really like the Block 115 project. Thanks for the URL/info.

Thank god for E. Wash redevelopment. Ugh, what an eyesore the gateway is.

'Gateway to the city'
East Wash mixed-use project moves forward

By Mike Ivey
February 22, 2005



http://www.madison-architecture.com/madarchfiles/12988.jpg
This is the view of the planned 10-story condominium tower and mixed housing and retail space from East Washington Avenue looking west.
This is the view of the planned 10-story condominium tower and mixed housing and retail space from East Washington Avenue looking west. (EPPSTEIN UHEN RENDERING)

The transformation of a used car lot on East Washington Avenue into a full block of mixed housing, retail space and a 10-story condominium tower has sailed through the city Plan Commission.

The review panel Monday night gave unanimous approval to an $80 million plan from developer Gary Gorman to build 309 condo units and 15,000 square feet of retail space in nine different buildings on the 800 block of East Washington.

The block is currently home to the Don Miller auto dealership, which is moving to High Crossing Boulevard on the far east side.

"I remember the mayor at a meeting a year ago saying somebody should do something with that Don Miller lot," said Gorman. "So I called them."

While Gorman had clashed with downtown neighbors during a redevelopment of the Quisling Clinic building on Wisconsin Avenue several years ago, this project came together rather easily. The developer met early with both the Tenney-Lapham and Old Market neighborhoods to get input.

"Originally I was against it but I've been completely won over," said Mary Pulliam, who lives at 935 E. Dayton St. "We're not losing anything here except a used car lot."

Ald. Brenda Konkel, whose district includes the development site, said she was surprised how all parties cooperated in crafting a plan to provide housing density while respecting the existing neighborhood.

"People told Gary he was crazy coming into the Tenney-Lapham neighborhood," she said. "But this process turned out to be a model for how to get things done. It was even fun."

The central piece of the project is the 10-story modern-looking building at the corner of East Washington Avenue and Paterson Street, directly across from Breese Stevens Field. The building will have retail space on the first floor, while providing views of both lakes from the condo units. Some condo units will also have views looking down into the stadium's playing field, drawing comparisons to Chicago's Wrigley Field.

In addition, a new street with 34 parking spaces will bisect the block, connecting Paterson and Livingston streets.

"This street will create a unique opportunity for live-work units, with arts, music, pilates, yoga, dance, crafts, etc.," Gorman said.

Another 486 parking spaces will be provided underground to serve the condos.

The condo buildings along East Washington will be the tallest and will drop to two or three stories on Mifflin Street. The smaller units will have entrances to the street.

While the project enjoyed strong support, Madison resident and environmental activist Gary Werner urged the city and developer to consider increasing the width of the terrace. He noted that West Washington and Wisconsin avenues downtown are pedestrian friendly because they have a wider terrace.

"There is a chance here to set a precedent for East Washington," he said. "This gateway to the State Capitol should be one of the grandest boulevards, not just in the Midwest but in the world."

The project is to be built in two phases, beginning this year. Phase two would begin in 2006. The project also is expected to meet the city's inclusionary zoning ordinance, which requires that 15 percent of units in new buildings be priced for moderate income buyers.

"This will set the tone for a gateway entrance to the city," said Gorman.

Green belt purchase: Also Monday night the commission approved spending $550,000 to purchase 18 acres along U.S. 151 from Whitson Swift Homes Inc. to complete a 254-acre open space area between Madison and Sun Prairie.

The property owners were also paid $1.4 million by the state Department of Transportation to give up access to U.S. 151. The model home site is being closed as part of the reconfiguration of U.S. 151 near the intersection of County C.

Thank god for E. Wash redevelopment. Ugh, what an eyesore the gateway is.

That's awesome! That'll improve E. Washington instantly. They say Madison is a pain in the ass to build in, but I think it pays off- Madison doesn't let ugly buildings be built, and they are very efficient and only let things get developed after lots of planning.

Oh, sweet. Are they redoing the whole "gateway", including some of the streets going towards the capitol? If they want to improve it though, they NEED to get rid of that eyesore power plant and move it somewhere else. Those smokestacks and machinery kill the scene. They also need to improve all the run down retail space, like that adult store and such... I'm happy to see they are trying to redo the whole gateway though.

amazing building...I love it!

It's great to see the new developments going on around East Wash, with the reconstruction and beatifcation going on that street is going to look completly different.

Also here'a a link. I don't know if this has been mentioned thus far:

McGrath to receive state aid for Madison project
Developer McGrath Associates, Madison, will receive a $450,000 brownfields grant from the state of Wisconsin for its planned $79 million redevelopment of the former Rayovac French Battery building on Madison's near east side into residential and commercial space.
LINK (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/02/14/daily39.html)

Not big or architecturally significant, but "neat"...


Earthly comforts: Historic Tobacco Row lofts to have geothermal heating, cooling
Brick, timber and warmth from ground

By Ron McCrea
February 28, 2005

Urban Land Interest development of tobacco row warehouses into apartments on Feeney Court.

http://www.madison-architecture.com/images/stories/madarchfiles/13231.jpg
Urban Land Interest development of tobacco row warehouses into apartments on Feeney Court. (Photo by Rich Rygh/The Capital Times)

Come July, two historic tobacco warehouses in the Bassett neighborhood will take on a new life as Tobacco Row, 61 loft apartments separated by a courtyard where rail cars used to load Wisconsin leaf headed for the Carolinas.

But the lovely cream-brick and limestone buildings, part of the former Findorff lumber yards, will have an ultra-modern distinction: They will be heated and cooled by a system that uses the Earth to regulate the water temperature.

Paul Muench, the project manager for Urban Land Interests, said a closed-loop, geothermal heat pump system seemed ideal for the historic structures, which are at the end of Feeney Court off West Main Street.

"We didn't want to put any penetrations in the beautiful brick," he said Friday. "We didn't want to have mechanical equipment hanging off the building. We didn't want it sitting up on the roof. If you use boilers and chillers, you have to put them somewhere.

"What I'm going to be most proud of when this project is done are the things you don't see. You won't see any of that stuff. The entire heating and cooling system is invisible."

Thirty-six 300-foot vertical wells have been drilled under what will be a surface parking lot, and pipes sent down and then up each one of them.

"In the spring, when we get our thaw, we'll connect the tops of them well-to-well like a daisy chain," Muench said. "There is a pump that is like the heart. The water gets pumped up and down, up and down, through the ground, and then it gets returned and runs through the entire complex like a vascular system. No matter what time of year, that water will come out of the ground at Earth's temperature, which is 54 degrees."

In conventional systems, water has to be heated or chilled mechanically with boilers and fluid coolers. "Here we just ship it out to Mother Earth and it gets reset," Muench said.

This gives the individually controlled heat pumps in the apartments "savings from the ground up," as the Geothermal Heat Pump Consortium puts it, since they only have to make up the difference between 54 degrees and the desired temperature, whether cool in summer or warm in winter.

Those savings on heating and cooling should be "fairly significant," Muench said. The only power required will be the electricity to run the main pump and the individual ceiling-mounted heat pumps, which are about the size of a small file cabinet.

The loft apartments, which will have high ceilings and exposed brick walls in the living rooms, will have some supplemental baseboard heaters available, "so that if you like to sit next to the window and read a book, you can click it on and get a little bit extra," Muench said.

The hallways of the building will also use a central heat recovery system that will capture the heat from kitchen and bathroom exhausts. "It ejects the air but grabs the heat and introduces it to the fresh air that is coming in to freshen the corridors," Muench said. "The general rule is, you want to pressurize the corridors so cooking smells don't get drawn into them, and you want to exhaust the kitchens and bathrooms."

Tall timber: Kitty Rankin, director of the Madison Landmarks Commission, said she is "absolutely thrilled" with the adaptive reuse of the warehouses.

"We've been working from before day one to help guide development in that area. Now, with historic tax credits available, it doesn't take much convincing to get developers to do that sort of thing," she said in an interview. Not, she added, that Urban Land Interests needed convincing.

Indeed, the developer took the lead in getting the warehouses listed on both the state and federal registers of historic places, a prerequisite for getting the credits, which Muench said amount to about $2 million of the $11 million project.

The warehouses were built between 1899 and 1901, he said. The west building was actually designed by the famous firm of Claude and Stark for the P. Lorillard Tobacco Co. The architect of the east building is unknown. The buildings served as warehouses for Lorillard and later the American Tobacco Co. until the 1930s. Then they became J.H. Findorff and Son buildings where lumber was stored and sold. Most recently, Muench said, a millworker used one of the buildings to build and store new desks for the State Capitol renovation.

Aside from carving out some windows under preservation supervision to meet code, the building's exterior is unchanged. But now it is bright and gleaming. The exterior cream brick was "black from 100 years of soot," Muench said. It was cleaned with soap and water and a high-pressure rinse.

Inside, the high timbers and brick were all lightly sandblasted to remove lead paint. "We were just blessed with what we found under the paint, this orange-ocher wood. It turned out better than our wildest hopes," he said. Heavy timbers - some appearing taller than trees are allowed to grow anymore - are spruce and Douglas fir, he said, and there is also some oak in the east building.

When Tobacco Row is completed, the east building will have three floors of 13 apartments each. The west building will have 22 apartments on an upper floor, a marketing office, and a ground-floor interior parking garage with space for 59 vehicles.

Living rooms will have exposed brick and timber; bedrooms will be insulated and drywalled. Loft levels are being built in the larger units. Boardwalks and a landscaped courtyard will separate the buildings. Two private drives - Lorillard Court and Findorff Court - will serve the complex.

Muench said the apartments will rent from $800 to $2,400 a month, but most will be in the $1,200 to $1,500 range. Under the historic tax credit program, the living spaces must remain apartments for five years before they can be converted to condominiums.

A second phase of the project is now being planned for new residential housing on the rest of the former Findorff property facing Proudfit Street and Lake Monona.

E-mail: rmccrea@madison.com

What do you all think of the new Marina condos? They aren't done yet, are they?

http://marinahomes.net/Location/MARaerial-wide-big.jpg

Also, I can't wait for the new master plan to get started. It's really gonna make the town a lot better...

What do you all think of the new Marina condos? They aren't done yet, are they?

http://marinahomes.net/Location/MARaerial-wide-big.jpg

Also, I can't wait for the new master plan to get started. It's really gonna make the town a lot better...

That rendering from the Marina website is ancient. The Hilton isn't even built yet in the picture, and the Hilton was complete in 2001. It's not finished yet, it will be another 3-5 months I would guess from looking at it.

Are you talking about the UW-Madison master plan? You must, there is no City of Madison master plan. Honestly, I don't really care what happens down at the UW, seeing as how the city started growing it's own identity a few years ago, and doesn't rely on the U. like it used to for activity and life.

The city council has approved that East Wash plan about 8 posts up...
http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/index.php?ntid=30457&ntpid=2

A new picture:

http://www.madison.com/images/articles/tct/2005/03/02/13314.jpg

I'm excited for this, but E. Washington needs a ton of work, still. It still cuts right through that ugly residential section near the high school- and I would assume they are probably going to concentrate most of their efforts on the area right after that, about a mile or two out from the capitol building.

A new picture:



I'm excited for this, but E. Washington needs a ton of work, still. It still cuts right through that ugly residential section near the high school- and I would assume they are probably going to concentrate most of their efforts on the area right after that, about a mile or two out from the capitol building.

I have to disagree. The residential neighborhood around East High ("Emerson East" neighborhood) has a lot of character. Some of the houses are not well maintained, but that's the least of E. Wash's problems. The blight that most needs attention is between Baldwin & 1st, the Milwaukee Street intersection, and again between Aberg & Stoughton. These areas are filled with old industrial and abandoned retail (including a porn shop, and a psuedo-brothel). Of course there are two major projects underway in 2 of the areas already, and the porn shop has been under attack for years, but it's not good enough yet. I'd prefer to leave the residential area around East High intact, especially the school. They don't make 'em like that anymore. Besides, I think you'll see some of the houses simply being remodeled as the property value starts going up thanks to the new road and surrounding development, and those older houses give young or underprivelaged families a chance to be a home owner in the city, which isn't easy anymore.

http://www.madison.k12.wi.us/east/images/photo-east-front(300x).jpg

http://www.ecomagic.org/east/EastHigh.jpg

There's the porn shop (also known as the place to get drugs, and homesexual action)...
http://images.ibsys.com/2003/0618/2277404_200X150.jpg

I've talked about that porn shop in some of my other posts. It really, really needs to go. That whole abandoned strip mall thing needs to go. I do agree the high school area has character- and I think the High School is actually pretty good looking.

I think getting rid of the porn shops, as well as the other things you mentioned would be really huge. Really huge.

I drive on the street in Madison all the time. That's a Thunderbolt siren on top of East High School. :D

Never been to that porn shop. My friend says it's smaller than Selective Video off Todd Drive, which is what I goto. :D

http://www.jmarcoz.com/sirens/madison2_wi.jpg

I've been to that porn shop, once. I biked there all the way from my old pad on Doty and Bassett many years ago. Terrible rainstorm. But it paid off.

I'm sorry, but who the FUCK pays for porn? You guys aren't buying fuckable sheep dolls, are you?

I'm sorry, but who the FUCK pays for porn? You guys aren't buying fuckable sheep dolls, are you?
I never said I went there to buy stuff for me, or buy porn. They have all sorts of crap there besides videos, mags and pleasure toys.

I was talking to KDirt or whatever. Paying for porn is almost as ridiculous as paying for music.

I agree that it is. It's actually one of three or so times I've been to a porn shop.

hey, milwaukeeans,

with all the talk about Federated and its effect on Marshall Field's, I was wondering if you guys miss having Marshall Field's at the Grand Avenue?

I realize that it never had the same status of a long-term department store at that location and that after Gimbel's left, the store never was brought up to Field's quality and was clearly treated by the firm as a secondary property. That said, could a strong Field's have made it downtown? Would that have had a positive effect on the Grand Avenue, which did suffer other slippage at the time Field's pulled out?

This is long past the prime era of department stores, and they do struggle. But it was clear a half century back to Marshall Field's that the Milw market embraced it when it built at Mayfair. That store was Field's from the start and has been a valued member of the Milw community; with more effort on the part of Dayton Hudson, could this have led to a similiar feeling for the Grand Avenue location?

edsg25 - the Grand Avenue is essentially a dead mall. My mom used to tell me all about how amazing the Grand Avenue used to be. These days, it hardly bears any resemblance to its former glory.

edsg25 - the Grand Avenue is essentially a dead mall. My mom used to tell me all about how amazing the Grand Avenue used to be. These days, it hardly bears any resemblance to its former glory.


As with most malls.

A good example of the future of shopping is right in our back yard. http://www.greenwayshopping.com/index.html

This is a little extreme BUT trend setting nonetheless.

hey, milwaukeeans,

with all the talk about Federated and its effect on Marshall Field's, I was wondering if you guys miss having Marshall Field's at the Grand Avenue?

I realize that it never had the same status of a long-term department store at that location and that after Gimbel's left, the store never was brought up to Field's quality and was clearly treated by the firm as a secondary property. That said, could a strong Field's have made it downtown? Would that have had a positive effect on the Grand Avenue, which did suffer other slippage at the time Field's pulled out?

This is long past the prime era of department stores, and they do struggle. But it was clear a half century back to Marshall Field's that the Milw market embraced it when it built at Mayfair. That store was Field's from the start and has been a valued member of the Milw community; with more effort on the part of Dayton Hudson, could this have led to a similiar feeling for the Grand Avenue location?


Milwaukee has it's own thread, try there...

edsg25 - the Grand Avenue is essentially a dead mall. My mom used to tell me all about how amazing the Grand Avenue used to be. These days, it hardly bears any resemblance to its former glory.

Grand Ave. is actually going through a rejuvenation. Through excellent renovations they've filled the vacant wing of the mall with large department stores (TJ Maxx, Bed Bath and Beyond) and added pedestrian friendly entrances and display windows that face the street. This is just the most recent work done on the mall; it has been under constant renovation for sometime.

I would never call it a dead mall. People go to Mayfair if they want to buy something from a chain store, and people go to Grand Ave. if they want something from a specialty store or major anchor chain stores. On the eastside where I live, you get a bad look if you talk about going to Mayfair over Grand Ave.

...and now back to the Madison thread.

The new courthouse building that made a big stink by partially blocking the view of the Capital from John Nolen Drive

A Time To Build: Making the grade
Public will enter new courthouse on a slope

By Ron McCrea
March 5, 2005

http://www.madison-architecture.com/images/stories/madarchfiles/13432.jpg
The public side of the new Dane County Justice Center faces South Hamilton Street. The glassed-in area in the center encloses public lobbies on all five courtroom floors. (Photo by David Sandell/The Capital Times)

http://www.madison-architecture.com/images/stories/madarchfiles/13433.jpg
Most courthouse visitors will use the ramp for disabled people that begins at the top of South Hamilton Street. Most visitors arriving by car will be dropped off next to the Public Safety Building (left) or park in the Dane County Ramp and take the crosswalks. (Photo by Henry A. Koshollek/The Capital Times)

The plans were out there and people should have known what to expect. But as with any new building, the $43.7 million Dane County Courthouse is presenting some surprises as it takes shape.

Some people are surprised it's so big - and so beige. They're surprised it blocks some Capitol views.

Now some may be surprised to learn that the only public entrance is on a slippery slope - South Hamilton Street.

"I can just imagine the mess it's going to be with stop-and-start driving, people dropping off passengers and picking them up," a court official said in casual conversation.

He can forget about that.

"Oh, no, they are not arriving on the hillside," Madison Traffic Engineer David Dryer said with a chortle. "We told the county we cannot have people stopping on that hill to get in a cab, to drop off and pick up. It's going to be posted 'No parking, standing or stopping.' I mean, there's just no way around it."

So how are people coming to the courthouse by car going to get to the public entrance? One of four ways:

• Find a rare parking place across the street on Hamilton, walk up to West Doty Street, cross with the light, then come down the lightly sloping handicapped ramp next to the building that will lead to the entrance. Or jaywalk across Hamilton to the courthouse, probably not a good idea.

• Find a parking place down the hill around West Wilson Street and take the sidewalk up Hamilton, or use the steep but sheltered steps that will be built next to the building.

• Drive up Hamilton, turn right on Doty, and drop off passengers at the handicapped ramp. One of the metered spaces on Doty at the corner may become a passenger loading zone.

• Park at the Dane County parking ramp on Fairchild Street, cross with the pedestrian signals at Doty, then take the handicapped ramp to the main entrance. Or, for more exercise, take the sidewalk down the Hamilton slope and climb the steps.

Two judges involved with courthouse planning said they expect most people will take either the third or fourth option.

Chief Circuit Judge Michael Nowakowski said in an interview that although the wedge-shaped site is challenging in some ways, "one of the advantages is that it's closer to the parking." Jurors and others will have to walk only about a block and a half to the entrance from the county ramp instead of the current three blocks.

Still, the Doty-Hamilton corner could become a zone of vehicle-pedestrian conflict. Dryer, the traffic engineer, predicted that there will be more pedestrians when the new courthouse opens, "so there will be more potential for interaction with the traffic."

"We have the best control we can have there with the signal," he said. "It's coordinated with the one at the bottom, because if you stop anybody on that hill in the winter it can be quite entertaining as they come down the hill sideways. It's doggone steep."

How steep? About a 9 percent grade, said Christy Bachmann of the City Engineer's Office, although it looks steeper than that.

There are no plans to heat the sidewalk or the handicapped ramp in winter, said Circuit Judge Sarah O'Brien, who has been closely involved with planning every aspect of the building.

But unlike today's public entrance on Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard, the ramp along Hamilton will be sheltered by the building's overhang. "So for winter access it's going to be more pleasant and safer. We expect almost everyone to enter the building on this ramp."

Nowakowski said the building was "raised or lowered a couple of feet to make sure that the grade was satisfactory" for the ramp. "I've been on there and that grade is not very steep."

Judges and other court officials will not have to contend with the hill. They will have 33 underground parking places in a ramp accessed from West Wilson Street. Service vehicles will also enter there.

The city had opposed Wilson Street as a public entrance, citing traffic issues, but the hillside was the clincher.

"Given that the public entrance is actually two stories up from the parking level of the building, there was no way a parking entrance on Hamilton Street could get back to the lower level," Nowakowski said. "It was physically impossible."

The public will get to test the user-friendliness of the new building, its street and its sidewalk beginning next winter. Move-in is scheduled for the week of Jan. 9, 2006.

E-mail: rmccrea@madison.com

Published: 9:15 AM 3/5/05

Story link:
http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/local//index.php?ntid=31005&nt_adsect=edit#

Thanks for the update, I still haven't found a rendering of the courthouse, does anyone know where to find one?

I don't like it that much, from what it looks like in that pic.

This guy is totally nuts for even brining this to the table...


Massive building would be Madison's costliest ever
00:00 am 3/13/05
Dean Mosiman Wisconsin State Journal

http://www.madison.com/images/articles/wsj/2005/03/12/13665.jpg
Developer Curt Brink unveils a model of his proposed $250 million, mixed-use Archipelago Village. It would be the most expensive building project in city history.
(Joseph W. Jackson III - State Journal)

Developer Curt Brink is proposing the most ambitious building project in Madison history.

The $250 million Archipelago Village would be the city's tallest, biggest and most costly private development ever.

It would be a grand hub for buses, streetcars, bicycles and cars.

And it promises to challenge the city's imagination and identity like few developments before it.

It may even be too much.

"We're not a sleepy 50,000 population college town anymore," Mayor Dave Cieslewicz said. "We're not New York City either."

The 27-story, 570-foot-tall building - twice as tall as the state Capitol - would be the second highest tower in the state and would provide a staggering 1.4 million square feet of commercial space on the old Mautz Paint site and other properties on the 900 block of East Washington Avenue. The development would shatter sacred city and state laws that limit building height to 187.2 feet within one mile of the Capitol. Those rules are designed to preserve views of the Capitol. The proposal is expected to ignite intense debate on how the city should grow as its boundaries reach their limits for expansion.

The proposal, Brink stressed, only starts a community dialogue on the project, and nothing is set in stone.

"What we're doing here is to show what might be possible," he said. "But we're serious about the possibility. It's an opportunity to do it." •

Costlier than Overture "It" is jaw-dropping.

The $250 million price tag would surpass the cost of Overture Center on State Street.

The project, featuring varied rooflines meant to look like buildings built over time, would include two hotels, 600,000 square feet of office space, 400,000 square feet of retail space, condos, a grocery, health club, perhaps a water park and 3,200 parking spaces.

It would also have a six- story, football-field-size atrium surrounded by stores and restaurants and crossed by wide footbridges where people could linger, eat or socialize.

The total commercial space would be about 50 percent more than East Towne or West Towne malls. And the parking garage would triple the size of the city's largest public ramp, the 859-space State Street- Capitol garage.

The project would follow nationally recognized "green" standards for energy conservation, natural lighting and recycling of materials from demolition.

A new street would run under the building, which would have a two-story, Grand Central Station-style transportation hub catering to bicyclists, cars, taxis, local and regional buses and streetcars.

"It's supposed to be like, 'Gee, I want to go there.' And when you're there, you're not disappointed," said Brink, 53, who has been quietly crafting the proposal for more than two years and who bubbles with enthusiasm about its potential. •

Growing up, not out The project, he said, lets the city boost its tax base by growing up, in contrast to sprawling outward. And it would deliver a boom in new sales and hotel room tax revenues, he said.

If a tax increment financing district (TIF) is created in the area, the project could generate huge sums of money that the city could use for budding Central Park nearby or other public improvements, he said.

Brink said he wants the community to be comfortable with whatever is built on the property and intends to engage the public for months before submitting plans for the city's formal review process.

In fact, he has built a huge model of the project and has set it in an 8,000-square-foot showroom in a vacant building on the block. The showroom, its walls covered with renderings and maps, is furnished with chairs, tables and other amenities so neighbors, business owners, officials and others can critique the proposal. He also has a special phone number and Web site to take public comment.

Brink is using the showroom to host the upcoming East Washington BUILD process, which will involve residents, officials and others in an intense planning effort for the East Washington Avenue area between Blair and First streets.

"We're trying to have an open, involved process," Brink said. "What we're doing is transparent. With all the input, we'll end up with something pretty fantastic." •

Awe, praise, skepticism Construction could begin as soon as 2006 and would take at least five years, he said.

Early reaction has been a mix of awe, along with praise for offering life to a dormant block, skepticism about Brink's capacity to pull it off, and concern about the height, mass and location.

"I want to applaud Curt for thinking big," Cieslewicz said, lauding the mixed use and transit elements of the project. "But it strikes me as too ambitious for one site."

City planning and development director Mark Olinger said, "It is a daring, very interesting proposal. There are still a lot of questions to be answered."

A group of neighborhood representatives got a presentation on Saturday.

"It's really big," said Marsha Rummel, president of the Marquette Neighborhood Association, adding that the height far surpasses recommendations in the East Rail Corridor Plan.

"I think for some in the neighborhood it will be a nonstarter, for others I don't know. I don't know if it will ever look like his initial vision. We want to work with him."

The proposal offers a unique prism for Madison to consider how it wants to look in the future, Cieslewicz said. "That a very important discussion for the city to have," he said.

A California native and UW- Madison graduate who played some football for the Badgers, Brink has spent most of his professional career as a real estate consultant and landlord.

Brink, who has gotten involved in redevelopment in recent years, is now transforming the former Buy and Sell shop, 701 E. Washington Ave., into what promises to be a trendy entertainment venue with bars and restaurants.

The city recently chose his $22 million, Victorian-style proposal for housing, retail and parking on the city-owned Buckeye surface parking lot on the 200 blocks of Gorham and Gilman streets, near State Street. •

Stockholm and NYC Along with major investors Jim and Marlene Corb, Brink bought most of the Mautz Paint block for $3.3 million in the fall of 2002. He is seeking to secure a small property at the corner of East Washington and Brearly Street.

Brink said he has thought deeply about bringing life and style to the site. He said he is influenced by the architecture of Stockholm, Sweden, and Central Park West in New York City.

The potential for linking the development to city attractions by streetcar became clear after traveling with Cieslewicz and others to explore the transportation system in Portland, Ore., last year, Brink said. Cieslewicz wants streetcars in Madison but it's uncertain if, or when, it will happen.

Despite its cost and scale, Brink is confident he can finance the project and attract tenants. Any request for TIF subsidies would meet city policies, he said.

Joe Gromacki, city TIF coordinator, said the project could generate about $40 million that could be used to aid development or pay for public improvements.

The city, however, doesn't use TIF to support hotels or offices anymore, and the project's "vertical retail mall" is a risky venture the city might be reluctant to support financially, Gromacki said.

But Brink may merit city support because his project would produce jobs and not just housing in a blighted area, Cieslewicz said.

Under the proposal, the five-story Mautz Paint building at East Washington Avenue and Paterson Street, designed by the noted Prairie School architect Alvan Small, would be preserved and all other structures on the block would be demolished.

Vintage brick from another building on East Main Street would be donated to the Central Park project. •

Candle in the cake The architecture, with varied heights, allows for dynamic, stylish rooftops and outdoor balconies and spaces unique vistas, Brink said.

The 570-foot-tall office- condo tower far exceeds city and state height laws, but it may be time for the city to choose places to grow up and enhance its bland skyline, which resembles a flat-topped cake from a distance, he said.

Cieslewicz said he would oppose any significant intrusion into the height limit because the Capitol dome "is an important symbol to the city and state of Wisconsin."

The building, coupled with developer Gary Gorman's $80 million, 10-story condo and retail project across the street, would actually enhance the gateway, Brink said.

The office space means jobs, Brink said. After a project under construction on Capitol Square and another big building on West Washington Avenue are filled, it will be hard to lure major businesses Downtown, he said.

"I don't see where we're going to put another office building Downtown," he said. "This says, 'Here's a corporate headquarters for a company.' If we don't built it, it's going to the suburbs."

The 240- and 80-room hotels, which would feature one or more ballrooms with stunning views, complement Downtown facilities and would help Monona Terrace attract more events, he said.

And the array of shops and eateries - perhaps with a restaurant high in a tower - would offer a destination for residents and visitors, especially in winter, he said.

The parking garage provides needed space for Breese Stevens Field across the street and the Central Park only blocks away, and offers park-and-ride opportunities for workers, he said.

For cyclists, the project would provide bicycle lockers, showers, repair and other amenities that would promote bicycle commuting. "Nobody is really embracing bicycles," he said. All of the workers, hotel guests, commuters and shoppers would boost business on nearby Williamson Street, a short walk away, and on State Street, a quick, fun trip by streetcar, Brink said.

"I like the fact that he's chosen to be visionary," said Ald. Judy Olson, 6th District. "Curt Brink didn't take the easy route by proposing housing. He has recognized that the city needs to concentrate on economic development."

But she added, "There will be a lot of concern expressed about the size of the building. And there's a need for a discussion about whether this is the right place for this kind of intense development." •

Gateway's rebirth Brink's proposal continues a remarkable rebirth for the city's main gateway to the Capitol.

The city is amid a $60 million reconstruction of the street, and Breese Stevens Field will undergo a $1 million facelift this summer.

Besides Gorman's $80 million development, Todd McGrath is proposing the $75 million Union Corners project on the 2400 block of East Washington and Peter Frautschi a $23.5 million project farther toward East Towne.

Archipelago Village "can be very positive for the city," Brink said. "It can help set a tone."
Contact Dean Mosiman at dmosiman@madison.com or 252-6141.

great article...I really hope this is built! It sounds like a pretty good thing for the city in my opinion. Plus its a 570 footer....which is cool in itself. Im all for it.

Madison's skyline would look like this ...........I..............

This thing is way too big for this city. I think it's needs to be toned down, a lot.

I'll be going down to check out the model and renderings this week. I'll take pictures (if allowed) and post them here, or I'll link to them on my site.

Speaking of my website? Ayone interested in gaving me a hand with it? Send me an email (jason@madison-architecture.com) if you are (no programming skills required).

yeah, it would stick out like a huge sore thumb...but the thought of having a sore thumbs that big in Madison is enticing. If they build it..the skyline would look out of balance...however to do it, they would have to can the height limit restrictions. If they do that, would we see more proposals for taller buildings? Its a tough choice, because I do like the Skyline right now--having the Captiol bldg rising above the Isthmus.

what kind of help do you need btw?

I'm home in Madison right now and looking at the article for Archipelago Village.

There is no way in hell this proposal will be passed for so many reasons. Height restriction is a huge issue to try to take on, the TIF amount hasn't been requested yet, it's unknown how high that is going to be. Including only 32 units of condos on a project in this scale is just stupid. (considering it's a mix-used project, 2 hotels? please.)

The article in the paper shows a detail model of the proposal, and it's mind-boggling in size and density. The architecture on the proposal is dissapointing, with the idea of creating that central park in Madison, could the architecture be copying New York's anymore? Something like this won't be passed in Madison anytime soon, however the developer would be smart to propose the project at its current gi-nourmous state, he knows it's going to be scaled down, and then hopefully passed. I'd like to see the project completed if it's scaled down (especially in height).

That tower would only be 40 feet shorter than the US Bank in Milwaukee. It might be fun to see a height-war begin between Milwaukee and Madison, but I just don't think it fits in the realm of current Madison projects.

We'll see...

I'd like to see it scaled down to include 3 or 4 different towers, ranging from 10-14 floors, with 2 to 3 of the towers lining E. Washington Ave. just across from the tower going up across the street at the Don Miller dealership.

ReddAlert: I'm looking for someone to help me add and maintain content, promote, brainstorm with me for ideas, etc. If I ever make any advertising revenue, it would become a paid position.

Actually, look on the bright side. If it is allowed to go through, it may be the kick-off to a series of high rises in Madison. Eventually, the skyline won't look like .....I..... (I liked that, by the way...)

I highly doubt this guy could make such a huge project succeed. How would he get this thing financed? He'd get laughed out of any bank president's office.

Not sure how he'll get it financed. He did play football for UW though, which makes you a lot of friends. $250 million is a lot of dough for a small-time developer. This guy only has 1 building that I'm aware of, and a 10-floor apartment building that's been approved.

I'd love to see Archipelago Village come to fruition, but I have my doubts as well. A building that tall would throw off the balance of the skyline, but if Madison really is interested in eventually heading in the direction of having a higher skyline, it has to start somewhere. This project could be the pioneer; it places Madison at an interesting crossroads.

Not sure how he'll get it financed. He did play football for UW though, which makes you a lot of friends. $250 million is a lot of dough for a small-time developer. This guy only has 1 building that I'm aware of, and a 10-floor apartment building that's been approved.

That's exactly what I'm saying. You don't just do one historic rehab, one apartment building, then jump to a collossus of this size.

Also, I highly doubt this guy has gotten to the point of actually proving via due dilligence that this thing would succeed, financially. I mean, two hotels??? Has he proven that Downtown Madison can absorb all these new hotel rooms? Maybe he has, I don't know. But I seriously doubt it.

I'm thinking this guy knows that this development would never work, and that he's just throwing it out there to start a civic conversation about Madison's future. Should Madison aim to stay small, or aim for "big city" status? I can't think of a better way to bring this question to the people of Madison than through this proposal.

If Madison decides to aim for "big city" status, then maybe in a few decades it will be ready to support a development of this magnitude. As of right now, however, this proposal is far too big to work in the Madison marketplace.

This would be great project for Madison and a chance for the city to take a big step toward becoming a big time city and fulfilling the city's potential.

Alas, it will probably never happen because of Madison's anti-business culture. The people of Madison worship government so much they would never support a project that would block the views of the precious state capitol, which represents the government system that puts nearly the entire city to work.

Just watch the Madison politicians screw this project up and you will see why cities like Austin are growing so much and Madison is not keeping up, even though it should be.

Then you will hear the liberals in Madison complain about the urban sprawl in places like Fitchburg, but the only alternative to sprawl is for the city to grow upwards and more dense from within. But of course, people in Madison do not understand this

I really hope I am wrong. I am rooting for this project. I went to UW-Madison, love the city and want to see it prosper. I think this project would be a huge boost to the city's economy and to downtown Madison. But the community needs to open its mind to something that is bigger than they are used to and the job opportunities it will create.

By the way, we would kill for a project like this in Milwaukee. That's why it will be such a shame to see Madison reject it.

The scenario Milwaukeeunseen laid out seems to make the most sense. And while this is all highly preliminary and speculative, there are some troubling things that need to be rethought/resolved.

First is the height. Twenty-seven stories at 570 feet? I certainly hope that's either a typo or somebody screwed up on the math, because those numbers don't add up. Or else there must be something ridiculous, like a big spire on top one of the towers.

Then there's the architecture--or, I should say, arcaricature--based on the small glimpse of the model shown above. This is 2005, not 1935; the architecture should reflect that. The fake New Yorkish art deco look should be scrapped.

Clearly, Madison has been making great efforts in revitalizing East Washington Avenue, but the "atrium" described for this vision in not the way to go about continuing that effort. In more simplified terms, the "six-story, football-field-size atrium surrounded by stores and restaurants and crossed by wide footbridges where people could linger, eat or socialize" is nothing more than a shopping mall--only this one would have a bunch of office towers stacked on top. In order to reinivgorate East Washington Avenue, the stores and restaurants with people lingering, eating, and socializing should occur out along the street, not in some atrium.

Edited because I can't make up my mind about how I feel about this project.

Let me just say that there is a delicate balance in Madison, so this will be a very delicate subject.

Switching gears...


http://www.madison.com/images/articles/tct/2005/03/14/13697.jpg
Flames leap through the roof of St. Raphael Cathedral. No one was hurt, but the damage was extensive. (Photo by Chunk Kiesling)

A downtown landmark for 150 years, St. Raphael Cathedral stood a smoldering ruin today as fire tore through the building. (photos)

"It's a real tragedy," said Monsignor Paul Swain, the church's pastor who lives in a rectory adjoining the cathedral. "It's a beautiful building. It's 150 years of prayer, celebration, baptism and marriages."

Swain said he was in the rectory when a passer-by spotted the blaze in the windows of the church shortly after 5:30 a.m. He heard about the fire on the radio.

Swain stood outside the wreckage of his parish church - which also serves as the center of worship for the Diocese of Madison - surveying firefighting efforts in a light jacket over his black shirt and white collar, pajama bottoms sticking out from the legs of his pants. Onlookers offered gloves, winter clothing and condolences to the priest as he tried to maintain an upbeat demeanor.

"Our faith is not based on buildings, it's based on Christ," he said.

Fire Chief Debra Amesqua said firefighters took a defensive position against the fire almost from the start. At about 7 a.m., firefighters had yet to gain the upper hand.

"Shortly we'll see the incident commander make a decision on whether or not to go into the building," she said.

She said it was too early to say what caused the fire, or if any of the building would be salvageable.

The roof of the building was completely demolished, and charred support timbers were black and burning as up to five tower trucks shot jets of water into the building from all directions.

The newly renovated spire, stretching 104 feet high, was transformed into a giant chimney as smoke billowed from the ornate stainless steel and copper vents and windows, at times clinging to the structure and enveloping it.

No one was hurt in the blaze, and no one was inside besides Swain. An overflow homeless shelter set up in the great hall underneath the building was not being used.

Madison Diocese Bishop Robert C. Morlino said in a prepared statement this morning that he was "in a state of prayer and a state of shock" this morning upon hearing of the fire.

"People know I have an appreciation for the cathedral," said Morlino, who regularly celebrates Mass there, including Sunday.

Downtown mess: The church is located at 222 W. Main St., between South Henry and South Fairchild streets, and traffic was halted on those streets, as well as on West Washington Avenue, during the morning commute.

Fire officials said the Tommy Thompson Office Building just behind the church, home to several state agencies, including the Departments of Commerce and Tourism, and the Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority, was evacuated because the fire was drawing smoke into the ventilation system. Hundreds of workers were displaced.

"Our problems are easy compared to the parish," said one Commerce employee, who wouldn't give his name.

An apartment building next to the church was also evacuated.

Because of the massive traffic tie-up downtown this morning, the Dane County parking ramp on Fairchild Street was closed, forcing Dane County employees, court jurors and other users of the ramp to be diverted to parking lots at the Alliant Energy Center grounds south of downtown.

A free shuttle to downtown offices was provided from the Alliant Energy Center parking lot to downtown.

'So tragic': The church had just celebrated its sesquicentennial last year, and the spire renovation was to be accompanied by a renovation of the sanctuary this year, said downtown Ald. Mike Verveer.

Verveer, a member of St. Paul's University Catholic Center, but who has attended "countless" services at St. Raphael, said the fire evoked the same feelings as the burning nine years ago of the Hotel Washington, a Madison landmark on West Washington Avenue that was home to several alternative nightspots.

"I feel the same emotions right here watching this, the same feeling of helplessness," he said. "It's so, so tragic. So sad."

Reporter Bill Novak contributed to this story. E-mail: selbow@madison.com

Published: 10:42 AM 3/14/05

This is right downtown in case you're not sure...
http://www.madison.com/images/articles/tct/2005/03/14/13689.jpg

www.archipelagovillage.com (http://www.archipelagovillage.com/index.php)

Somebody needs to get on their case about cross-browser formatting. That looks like crap in Firefox :)

I'm using Firefox too, but hadn't had any problems with it. But then I went back to look at it agian after you said something, and now there's a rendering on the front page, which was not there when I posted the link a half hour ago. But yeah, the format is all goofy now.

Does anyone have the picture of the 3-d model of archipelago that was in the paper? When I saw it in the Journal it really showed the massive size of that project. You could see the entire city block it was suppose to take up.

Also Jason you may know the answer to this one. Has there been any updates with the Madison Central Park idea?

Does anyone have the picture of the 3-d model of archipelago that was in the paper? When I saw it in the Journal it really showed the massive size of that project. You could see the entire city block it was suppose to take up.

Jason posted a picture of the model (a partial one anyway, with the guy standing in front of it and curtains covering some of it) along with the article. Did the print version have more pictures?

I just perused the website, and got a hearty laugh out of it. Ethos urbanism? What exactly in hell is that supposed to mean? I agree with Markitect on the arcitecture of this monstrosity. It looks like it's trying to be the Empire State Building, the Palace of Versailles and the Dakota all in one. A river inside the building with a footbridge over it? What is this, Vegas?

The links that would take you to anything specific, anything beyond grandiloquent meaningless prose about "quasi-use" and "a specific predefined culture" are all dead links. Nothing specific about what kinds of hotel space, how many rooms, retail and office space, nothing.

Looks like Mr. Brink has assembled a serious development team, however, made up of Arnold & O'Sheridan, Stevens Construction and Strang Architects. The latter two are engineering and construction firms, so he must be serious about moving this thing forward. Yikes.

I'll get down there this week and take pictures of the model. I guess they're open to the public.

Jason posted a picture of the model (a partial one anyway, with the guy standing in front of it and curtains covering some of it) along with the article. Did the print version have more pictures?

There is another picture of the model in the article. The picture is taken from an angle so you can see the depth and size of the model. I have the print in front of me, I'll try to get around to scanning it sometime tomorrow. I can't find the picture online anywhere.

I'll get down there this week and take pictures of the model. I guess they're open to the public.

The Journal said it was supposed to, he wants to get the neighbors in there to see how they feel about it. I'd like to hear their opinion, I bet it's highly mixed.

The Journal said it was supposed to, he wants to get the neighbors in there to see how they feel about it. I'd like to hear their opinion, I bet it's highly mixed.

The website of the Isthmus (local newspaper) has a forum. On this forum, it is being discussed by the locals (a very liberal crowd there). Opinions are surprisingly mixed.

http://thedailypage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8754
(Careful, it's a brutal place.)

http://thedailypage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8754
(Careful, it's a brutal place.)

It doesn't look like "Gert"--if that is his real name [*wink wink, nudge nudge*]--is making too many new friends over there.

Yeah, ...

Who put the cement truck up his ass?

> And, also from the 2000 Census, Des Moines Metro Area is 456,022, while Madison's Metro Area is 426,526.
Apples and oranges?

> Any way you nit pick it Madison is not a big city, no matter how a lot of folks wish to make it one.
Apples and oranges?

This is getting old listening to this bitter bullshit. This guy is almost insulting anyone who utters this sour word of his.

> In the strange world outside of Madison, known as "reality,"
Your strange world is a sick obsession with this thing.

Finally, the picture from the paper....

http://www.madison-architecture.com/images/stories//apmodel.jpg

...and some more interesting images:

http://www.madison-architecture.com/images/stories//apcompare.jpg
http://www.madison-architecture.com/images/stories//aplocation.jpg

Wow, that really is huge. Thanks for the info.

I'm not saying anything more about Madison, I promise. Yeah, I admit I'm an asshole. That Gert is a real jerk.

I will say though that I don't like the design of this thing. It reminds me of Vegas. I would say the same if it were proposed for any other city.

I don't think it would stick out that much like a sore thumb, as it has other 250-300+ foot buildings around it, but I don't think they should build it. I don't really like the design at all, and it's way too cramped.

I do think Madison should eliminate the height restrictions, though. There is a high demand for high-rise condos, and if Madison won't jump on and let some high rise (and I mean over 187 feet or whatever) be built... I don't know.

I think the Madison skyline has a lot of potential, but this thing looks gothic and ugly, and least in the proposal I see...

Weirdly, Emporis lists Madison's Metro at 583,000 and Des Moines at 572,000. Not sure what factors that they look at.

I'm not saying anything more about Madison, I promise. Yeah, I admit I'm an asshole. That Gert is a real jerk.

I will say though that I don't like the design of this thing. It reminds me of Vegas. I would say the same if it were proposed for any other city.

I agree. Change the architecture, make most of the things condos, lower the height, take away a hotel and I might consider liking it. I wouldn't want it as is in Milwaukee.

I do think Madison should eliminate the height restrictions, though. There is a high demand for high-rise condos, and if Madison won't jump on and let some high rise (and I mean over 187 feet or whatever) be built... I don't know.


I totally disagree. I think the medium size of the skyline is what makes Madison unique. I love that I can be in a suburb of Madison and still see the capital when I'm looking across two lakes. The hight restriction needs to be tweaked, but not eliminated IMO.

the thing is way to big for Madison. It will absolutely ruin the nice skyline if it were to be built. Its not the worst building I have seen, but it doesnt fit with the city. If Madison wants itself to be seen as this progressive, liberal city--than they are going to need a tower that symoblizes it rather than architecture of the past. Madisons first tall building needs to be something that is iconic--something that people wont mind sharing the spotlight with the Capitol Building. An example would be something in the nature of Turning Torso or some of lower height residental high rises that Vancouver boasts.

Keep in mind that this isn't "Madison's vision", this is Curt Brink's vision. Just one guy. One very, very eccentric guy.

If they can someone prove that it won't drive businesses out around it, that the hotels will be able to make money, amongst other things, I'm for it... if they scale down the gothicness, and maybe the size a bit.

Otherwise, it'll just stick out like an ugly, sore thumb- kind of like the GM buildings in Detroit. They are so detached from the downtown, and ugly, that it is just hideous.

Jason: Are there any pics of the large biotechnology/etc centers they are (probably) building in the next couple years? The ones that are coming off Doyle's large proposal?

UW has really been making their new buildings pretty attractive- like the Engineering building. I'd like to see them make these buildings attractive too. I'm excited for some of the eyesore buildings to get knocked down. There are those dorms- can't think of the name- that are exactly like the ones that are in UW-Oshkosh, are those are disgustingly hideous. I would greatly approve of those being knocked down, and new, prettier ones replacing them.

Jason: Are there any pics of the large biotechnology/etc centers they are (probably) building in the next couple years? The ones that are coming off Doyle's large proposal?

UW has really been making their new buildings pretty attractive- like the Engineering building. I'd like to see them make these buildings attractive too. I'm excited for some of the eyesore buildings to get knocked down. There are those dorms- can't think of the name- that are exactly like the ones that are in UW-Oshkosh, are those are disgustingly hideous. I would greatly approve of those being knocked down, and new, prettier ones replacing them.

No renderings that I know of. I think Doyle is living a pipe-dream with that vision anyway.

The dorms that are going to be domolished are the ones called Ogg Hall. There are two Ogg Hall towers. The location Ogg currently occupies is going to be open space. New dorms are being built elsewhere right now (much shorter, but very large in size).

I don't think hes having a pipe-dream. I think most of it will be done, and I really, really, really hope it is, as Madison- and especially Wisconsin- needs to further itself as a big biotechnology state. We're already cloning animals and selling them to people...

Also, I'm glad to hear Ogg Hall is going. It just stood there in the middle of a field- I didn't like that at all. Also, do you have and pictures of the new dorms. Are they a lot nicer looking?

I don't think hes having a pipe-dream. I think most of it will be done, and I really, really, really hope it is, as Madison- and especially Wisconsin- needs to further itself as a big biotechnology state. We're already cloning animals and selling them to people...

Also, I'm glad to hear Ogg Hall is going. It just stood there in the middle of a field- I didn't like that at all. Also, do you have and pictures of the new dorms. Are they a lot nicer looking?

Here ya go:
http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=tct:2004:12:09:396514:FRONT

"Some Republican legislators say Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle's proposal for a $375 million biomedical and technology research institute could have a hard time getting funding through the GOP-controlled Legislature.

"With the state's limited dollars, it's going to be extremely tough," said state Rep. Dean Kaufert of Neenah, a co-chairman of the Joint Finance Committee. "I mean, the governor's going to have to pull one out of his hat as far as coming up with some funds (for) this program."

Doyle proposed last month that a Wisconsin Institute for Discovery be built on the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus as a center for stem cell and other biomedical research.

"There is broad consensus on the goal here, but we have to wait and see the details in what he proposes in his budget to see exactly where the money is coming from, who's paying for it, how much and what it's being used for," said Steve Baas, a spokesman for Assembly Speaker John Gard, R-Peshtigo."

This is all sugar-coating for, "in your dreams Doyle. Sincerely, the Republican controlled Legislature."

If we don't do that, we need to do something similar. We really need to get as much technology in Wisconsin as possible.

If we don't do that, we need to do something similar. We really need to get as much technology in Wisconsin as possible.

Woah, slow down there. We're doing a lot to lure these business to the area already. We tax-payers can only burden so much. I'd like to actually keep some of my paycheck..

Chicago Biotech Company Will Move To Madison:
http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=wsj:2005:02:03:402483:BUSINESS

Mentor Commissions Biotech Facility Here:
http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=tct:2004:11:30:395310:BUSINESS

Wisconsin Courts Biotech Firms:
http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=wsj:2004:06:07:374978:LOCAL/WISCONSIN

So- like that Santa Barbara company that put some operations here. All of the revenue goes to California, right? (Besides salaries to people in Madison)

http://www.dailyreporter.com/newspics/image-031605.jpg

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper439/stills/1rt8h5mp.gif
^ Renderings of the proposed Wisconsin Institute of Discovery.

^Thanks. I shoulda looked harder. (Laziness via. skepticism) ;)

I do believe those were unveiled just yesterday.

what is that thing? It looks pretty cool.

Too bad it's supposedly going to be built over 10 years. I'm excited to see the thing, if it gets approved.

I don't want to see Madison lift its highrise ban. I think it would be a real detriment to the character of the isthmus to have it crowded with much taller buildings.

Scratch Kansas.

yeah for real! I believe Wisconsin can advance farther now--however I doubt they will beat UConn.

Anyone know how the vote for the Wisc Institute for Discovery turned out? I really, really want the building. It would help Wisconsin so much...

UWM

Anyone know how the vote for the Wisc Institute for Discovery turned out? I really, really want the building. It would help Wisconsin so much...

On Friday, the state building commission was to review and possibly "yay" or "nay" and give approval for the first phase of the institute, which is a $19 million phase. Of course, this is based on IF the project can get funded. Nothing has been said on the news or paper about the otucome of that meeting on friday.

Doyle included the $19 million in his capital budget proposal, perhaps someone better versed in state politics than myself can tell us what it takes for a governor's proposed budget to be made official. Does the legislature need to approve it? If so, I can almost gaurantee the GOP controlled legislature will not approve a $19 million addition to a budget that is supposed to be a solution to a $3.2 billion deficit.

As a side note, Flad & Associates has been selected as the architect.

In other news:

"Curt Brink's proposed $250 million, 570-foot tall Archipelago Village is raising concern about blocking flight paths to the Dane County Regional Airport.

The building "is almost on the centerline of Runway 21" and exceeds Dane County's height limit protecting airspace around the airport by 412 feet, Gary Dikkers, airspace manager for the state Department of Transportation, informed the city and county in a letter this week."

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/index.php?ntid=32754

I guess that's that.

I was actually thinking about this village last night.

I REALLY do not want it.

I think there should be some taller condos in Madison - Maybe 300 or 350 feet, but almost 600 feet is ridiculous. I realized that I do like Madison for it's "low hise rise" feeling. I think there should be some taller buildings- carefully placed and zoned perhaps- but nothing taller than 350 or so feet.

I don't like this A. Village, but I hope he has a couple of other ideas. I'm always open to development.

I also hear about Madison getting a commuter train. What do you guys think about that? Do you think it could really survive, get the funds from continued use to cover operation and all? I know the traffic is awfully bad in Madison- around 4:30 it's probably worse than anything Milwaukee has seen- but I'm not sure if a probably unsightly train would do the trick.

Not to mention Wisconsin is 3.5 million in debt... but what state isn't in enormous amounts of debt?

Madison traffic worse than Milwaukee traffic? God no. Milwaukee has more lanes on the Interstate for starters, and there are just more people. I visit both on a regular basis and am in Madison several times a week. Madison is so way tame feeling compared to Milwaukee -- I drive through Madison from East to West on the beltline and through downtown on 151 after doing something in the Milwaukee area, and I usually do something in Madison on the way back through.

Milwaukee Interstates are so much more active. At a certain point in any given night(typically late) Madison's beltline will appear almost dead. In Milwaukee I've only found that to happen late at night on major holidays(christmas or thanksgiving or something).

The side streets I've been on in Madison haven't been an issue, as expected.

I grew up in Mequon, and I rarely encountered bad traffic downtown. On the highways, though, Milwaukee is way worse than Madison. I've never had trouble with highways around Madison- except the beltline can get pretty bad sometimes.


Oh, and these offficials in this game are absolutely pathetic. Horrible.

Milwaukee's traffic is really tame for a major city. I actually think we need more traffic. More traffic is a good economic indicator.

I'm happy my alma mater and my hometown University (UWM) are both in the Sweet 16. Even better if UWM can beat Illinois. Could happen, but I do beleive it's a longshot.

Will Wisco beat NC State?

NC State is playing very good (knocking off the defending champs) but I think Wisconsin has a shot of beating them. The last two games for UW were a bit of a scare to me...so lets hope they can pull it out once more.

As for UWM..I highly doubt they will win. I was at the dentist office today reading the preliminary NCAA coverage in Sports Illustrated--and they actually picked UWM to beat Alabama AND Boston College before the first game! How weird is that? However, there is a chance that UWM can pull the biggest college upset in Wisconsin history.

Discovery Institute approved by building commission, but as suspected, it now goes tot he legislature...
http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=wsj:2005:03:19:409243:LOCAL/WISCONSIN

Does Madison have the biggest fireworks show in teh midwest? I always hear it's either Madison or Columbus. I haven't gotten to see Madison's yet.

http://www.rhythmandbooms.com/index.php

That's the big one at Warner Park. Average attendance = 300,000. Check out the show at Elver Park, they recently bumped up the quality of the show when the single man that ran it all moved out East. This last year they had 2 different pyrotechnics companies doing it. I've seen that show for the past 3 years. 15,000 people inside the park grounds, estimated 55,000 watching around the immediate vicinity.

Madison area is pretty big on fireworks though, I'd assume damn near every suburb has fireworks show. Madison itself has 2 that I'm talking about now.

Now, _GOOD_?

The one at Warner Park is longer, more high-strung, more new innovative stuff, more effects and the finale is at a _brisk_ pace and longer than most others. The entire show is longer than most others. There is a crapload of people. If you don't go the day before, forget it, you'll never get in close. They air it on local news though.

The one at Elver has typically had a faster finale with a lot more noise. This last year with everything changing it the whole show was at a fast pace and everything had a lot more color. They still had an ungodly amount of big salutes at the end though, which is why I keep going there. Quick in and out access. You'll have to wait a little bit, but it's not bad. If you can't get into the park grounds before they close it off, there are many easy spots to park on streets and at gas stations to still be able to FEEL the show.

I'm not sure what this is about but it sounds good.

http://www.madison.com/tct/news/building/index.php?ntid=33098&nt_adsect=edit#

There are a couple more stories on there too- about the Essen Haus and a couple others. I wish they could have kept the Essen Haus above or at 12 floors.

FYI, the Block 115 redevelopment plan/proposal is almost dead. The neighborhood has stopped supporting it, and developer Greg Hartmann has lost hope.

I'm not sure what this is about but it sounds good.

http://www.madison.com/tct/news/building/index.php?ntid=33098&nt_adsect=edit#

Sounds good? Try, "sounds bad". It's being put off.

When is the Mosse humanities building going down, anyway? I really hate that building... it's ugly and needs to die.

Another thing: Which project was "put on the backburner" - the one that would knock those old shitty houses down? Cause those houses are really ugly. If a neat apartment/condo complex would go in it's place, I'd be happy...

Another thing: Which project was "put on the backburner" - the one that would knock those old shitty houses down? Cause those houses are really ugly. If a neat apartment/condo complex would go in it's place, I'd be happy...

No, the park is being put off (see top post on this page). Block 115 is facing neighborhood opposition.

Alrighty. 17 acres is a pretty effing small park, anyway... it would be neat to have a central park, though. It seems like Madison is one of the few true "progressive" cities- which I like. It is actually improving over time. And with the campus master plan, as well as myriads of other development, I"m getting really excited.

Fitchburg is getting an IMax. Maybe old news. I wish downtown Madison would get one.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local//index.php?ntid=33483#

Fitchburg IMAX: 44 tall by 70 feet wide

Here is a new installation in IL which rundowns typical Marcus Theatres UltraScreen specifics:

ELGIN, Ill. – Marcus Theatres on June 4 announced plans to add a 500-seat “UltraScreen” auditorium to its existing 14-plex in Elgin, Ill.

Marcus Theatres added a 500-seat “UltraScreen” auditorium June 4 to its 14-plex in Elgin, Ill.Set to open early next year, the auditorium will feature stadium-style seating, plush high-backed seats with cup-holder armrests and double-wide love seats. Its new 70- by 30-foot screen will be backed by more than 10,000 watts of six-channel Dolby digital surround sound.

“The UltraScreen takes moviegoing to a totally new level of excitement that can never be experienced at home,” said circuit president Bruce J. Olson. “The UltraScreen is 500 times bigger than a typical 19-inch television screen.”

Milwaukee-based Marcus Theatres currently operates 488 screens at 46 sites in Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota and Ohio.
I've finally seen all the Marcus Screens; standard, SuperScreen and UltraScreen. The 2 biggest ones are oviously the most fun but the standard setup at Marcus usually hasn't been bad from my experience.

Alrighty. 17 acres is a pretty effing small park, anyway... it would be neat to have a central park, though. It seems like Madison is one of the few true "progressive" cities- which I like. It is actually improving over time. And with the campus master plan, as well as myriads of other development, I"m getting really excited.

Not as small as you might think, considering it's urban location:
http://www.uosf.org/aerial%20with%20park%20overlay%20--%20web%20sized.jpg

That looks really nice. I really hope it gets done. Madison already has a ton of green space, and more- especially in that rather industrial area- would be awesome.

I was disappointed to read that Mayor Dave and the Council are playing their typical obstructionist roles in this Central Park issue.

Seriously, if Madison is to truly grow, there needs to be a change of attitude, and it has to start at the top. This Central Park concept is a potential catalyst that could transform the East Isthmus. But instead Mayor Dave wants to "take it slow" and look at the possiblity for streetcars and transit upgrades. This is of course admirable, but in a city like Madison (or Milwaukee for that matter) you need to aggresively go for any great opportunity to come along.

If I were Mayor Dave, I would do whatever I can to get Central Park built as soon as it can be. If it is a success, it will spur development, which in turn will create demand for transit. In the end Mayor Dave gets good urban development with good transit.

By stalling the Central Park concept to somehow "make room" for transit in the discussion, the concept could die, and then you get nothing. Take your pick.

Yeah, I'm pretty upset. Dave knows what he's doing though, and I trust him. They need to get all the rail stuff removed first- but I would definitely like to see his central park soon.

The Central Park plan is a great idea and it would be nice if Madison officials would push it forward. Madison isn't going to become a great city if the leaders just sit back and do nothing.

Look at what's going on in Fitchburg and Verona, which are attracting urban sprawl type developments like Epic and the IMAX which should be going to Madison instead. This will continue and Madison will stagnate as long as city residents continue to oppose anything more dense than a single family home. City leaders need to act like leaders and push forward bold projects such as the Central Park and Archipelago Village. Both would help lift Madison from large village to major city status.

Archipelago village shouldn't be built. I hope Blank or whatever his name is still does something, but the villate is way too big, and in a flight path.

I'd like to see some more aesthetica 200-350 foot tall buildings, but going up to almost 600 feet on a rather gothic looking building is just a bad idea for me. There is also just way too much square footage to possibly be used in a metro area like Madison, too.

We do need the central park though, and if Madison get's an IMAX it'll be more "legitimate" like Milwaukee's- which I Believe has a screen that lot only is in front of you, but above you and to your sides, unlike the planned Fitchburg one.

I agree though, I really would have liked an IMAX in Madison instead- and Madison does need to start doing stuff other than this "single family home" stuff. The central park plan needs to be pushed forward.

Jason, do you have any idea when construction is supposed to start/end on that E. Washington condo/retail complex?

Also, do you see Madison continually getting more and more "mid-highrises" over the years, with many of them overtaking houses?

Personally, I love Madison's "denseness" and how it has a lot of mid-highrises. But I'd like to see it get less sporatic, and for more and more mid-highrises to come out of the ground.

Onwards, to UNC.. 8(

Jason, do you have any idea when construction is supposed to start/end on that E. Washington condo/retail complex?

Also, do you see Madison continually getting more and more "mid-highrises" over the years, with many of them overtaking houses?

Personally, I love Madison's "denseness" and how it has a lot of mid-highrises. But I'd like to see it get less sporatic, and for more and more mid-highrises to come out of the ground.

Construction will start as soon as Don Miller moves out, which will be this summer sometime.

I see Madison as nothing but a mid-rise city, and nothing more. Believe it or not, there are many, many place left to infill in this city, so going higher than 12-14 floors just isn't necessary. A lot of people want to blame sprawl in Madison on not having built upward. Nah, we've sprawled out to natural gravitational areas... the interstate, the airport, and the beltline.

This doesn't mean it's what I personally want, it's just what I foresee.

P.S. I jusdt found out I'm losing my view of the Madison skyline from my office, and I'm pissed. A bigger building is being put right in my view. Now I don't blame people who complain about losing their view.

There is still a ton- TON of room left on the Ithsmus if the city knocks some houses down. I realized recently how much I like the "midrise" feeling of the city recently. The other thing is that Madison is getting a lot of NICE midrises. It's not like the Fox Cities were some really un-unique midrises are put up. Most of the midrises in Madison are very aesthetic and interesting looking, and don't look like they rolled off an assembly line.

I'm really excited to see what Madison looks like in 10 or 15 years.

In my opinion, the Capitol view from office building windows isn't terribly important. It's important to me that the Capitol can be seen on the skyline, as well as clearly seen while driving down E. Washington, which shouldn't be a problem.

Madison has nonstop flights to Orlando now, too. They keep getting more and more. It's great to hear.

Question for anyone who knows: When Don Miller is getting destroyed, is it both sides of the road, or just one? I know he has lots on both sides.

The dealership is leaving the area entirely for the far east side.

I was reading today more about racism on the UW-Madison campus. Just about how kids ask black kids "Are you from the Ghetto" and stuff. It really makes me mad. I hate these ignorant kids.

I wish Madison would become more diverse- the student body I mean, then this wouldn't be such a problem. Madison has never seemed even close to a racist place to me. Maybe it's just the ignorant kids and not the actual population?

Like a lot of the minorities said though. The people aren't as racist as they are ignorant.

I also wish Milwaukee public schools would improve, so they could feed more kids into Madison.

Also, Madison seems very diverse, but it's more culturally diverse than it is racially.

Just upsets me. It's the one thing about the city that really does.

The report also says Madison is a very straight campus, yet a gay website named it one of the gayest last year.

Madison is in the group of recognizable US cities to have the highest concentration of 15-24 year olds...and has 3,000 more females than males. What that means for racism...i-dunno.

I seen a magazine saying Milwaukee was pretty big on lesbians. :-/

In my experience, ignorance mostly spews from the mouths of little, rich, preppy, white girls.

UW-Madison Fall 2003 Enrollment:
Total: 41,588
Men: 19,876/47.8%
Women: 21,712/52.2%
Ethnic minority students: 4,108/9.9%
African American: 994/2.3%
Asian American: 1,838/4.4%
Native American: 230/0.6%
Hispanic: 1,046/2.5%
From Wisconsin: 25,974/62.5%
From other U.S. states: 12,077/29.0%
International students: 3,571/8.6%
U.S. states represented: 50
Countries represented: 120

Source:
http://www.uc.wisc.edu/profile/quickfacts.php?file=qfstudents

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
9/20/2004
CONTACT: Bernice Durand, (608) 262-5246, bdurand@wisc.edu

UW-MADISON'S DIVERSITY FORUM TO FOCUS ON SOLUTIONS

MADISON - Students, faculty, staff and the community are invited to spend a day - or even a few hours - talking about solutions and identifying the "missing pieces" of the University of Wisconsin-Madison's efforts to strengthen diversity and improve campus climate.

Those themes will be the focus of the 5th Annual Plan 2008 Campus Forum, to be held from 8:15 a.m.-3:45 p.m. on Monday, Sept. 27, at Memorial Union. (Check Today In The Union for room location.)

Plan 2008 is the campus blueprint to increase the diversity of UW-Madison's students, faculty, staff, curricula and campus life. All sessions are free and members of the Madison community are invited.

In a break from the past, this year's forum has been designed to share best practices and dispense practical, "how to" advice related to diversity and climate issues, says Bernice Durand, a professor of physics and associate vice chancellor for diversity and climate.

"The basic theme is, what are the missing pieces as we move forward?" Durand says. "What needs to happen if we hope to achieve our goals? We are looking for practical advice on how to make it happen."

For the first time, the session is being held early in the fall semester to give participants time to apply the ideas and strategies presented, says Durand. Past sessions have been held in April and May.

"Participants always come out of the forums with a lot of energy and momentum," Durand says. "We're hoping that scheduling the forum early will give people time to make positive changes through the entire academic year."

The forum will begin with introductory remarks by Provost Peter Spear, Durand and Michael Thornton, professor of Afro-American Studies and co-chair with Durand of the Plan 2008 Diversity Oversight Committee.

The group will discuss overall progress made during the past few years, along with plans for a renewed focus on student, staff and faculty retention and climate in the classroom.

Next will be a new feature, which the organizing committee, co-chaired by Ruby Paredes, assistant vice chancellor for student affairs, and Rebecca Ryan, a senior advisor in the cross-college advising service, refer to as a "teach-in" or "diversity practicum." This will be a plenary session on privilege and social justice, led by Professor Peggy McIntosh of Wellesley and her two colleagues, Victor Lewis and Hugh Vasquez, who were featured in the film "Color of Fear."

To round out the morning, several concurrent breakout sessions will also be held, each featuring a way to get involved.

Faculty members who have Ethnic Studies classes meeting on Monday, Sept. 27, are strongly encouraged to allow their students to attend forum sessions - especially in the morning - as a substitute for a normal class meeting. Students should bring their ID cards, for validation of attendance.

A lunch session will explore the topic of diversity in the public and private workforce, with presentations from executives from the Wisconsin Department of Revenue, Kimberly Clark and SBC. The forum will conclude with a question-and-answer session with Chancellor John Wiley, and other campus vice chancellors and deans.

Throughout the day, participants will have the chance to air their thoughts on diversity, climate, Plan 2008 and UW-Madison by talking in front of a video camera or writing on a "Wall of Thoughts," and signing up for student focus groups on campus and classroom climate issues.

For more information, or to register for the forum, visit http://www.diversity.wisc.edu. Free box lunches are available to all who preregister by noon on Wednesday, Sept. 22. Click on "5th Annual Plan 2008 Campus Forum," then on "sign up."

Plan 2008:
http://www.provost.wisc.edu/plan2008/

Just to add:
Ethnic minorities in UW-Madison student body:
1994: 3,085
1995: 3,123
1996: 3,181
1997: 3,191
1998: 3,237
1999: 3,359
2000: 3,245
2001: 3,319
2002: 3,474
2003: 3,616 (doesn't match the above number - what gives?)

Source:
http://www.bpa.wisc.edu/datadigest/DataDigest2003-2004.pdf

I got a good picture of the (what I believe is) Don Miller dealership on E. Washington.

Is this how much is going...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/TheDesertFox/E.jpg

The areas with question marks... I'm not sure if they belong to the dealership or what.

The 'question marks' are not part of the dealership. The north side of East Washington Ave. is where the Gorman project is going, which includes a 12-story (I think) tower on the corner (see about 5 pages back).

That is the Don Miller dealership right- where it's going? Just without the question mark places.

$11 million development proposed for West Washington Ave. WSJ

Downtown Madison may soon get sweatier � in a good way.

Developer Eric Minton is proposing an $11 million, nine-story, mixed-use development with a state-of-the-art fitness center, commercial space, housing and parking on the 400 block of West Washington Avenue.

The centerpiece, the 25,000-square-foot fitness center, would feature a basketball court, three-lane outdoor lap pool, high ceilings and natural light, and space for aerobic classes, free weights and exercise equipment.

The project would also include space for an optometrist office, hair salons, 40 apartments including six lower-cost units, and 98 mostly underground parking spaces.

Under the proposal, Minton would demolish a single-story building that houses the optometry offices of Dr. John Bonsett-Veal at 425 W. Washington Ave. and build a high-rise building of stone, brick and glass.

"We want to do a bit more contemporary but not ultra-modern," architect John Sutton said of the emerging design.

Bonsett-Veal, who owns the property, would relocate in the new building.

Minton, who owns Capitol Fitness centers at 302 East Washington Ave. and 44 W. Mifflin St., would close the latter facility and replace it with the new fitness center.

"I'm doing it because I have a commitment to the gym business and to Downtown," Minton said.

Ald. Mike Verveer, 4th District, who represents the area, said he likes the concept but predicted some in the neighborhood may raise concerns about the building's height.

The proposal will be discussed at a Bassett neighborhood meeting at 7 p.m. today at Meriter Main Gate, 333 W. Main St.

----

I'm always up for another mid-high-rise in Madison. I'm not up for closing businesses on East Washington though.

I'm always up for another mid-high-rise in Madison. I'm not up for closing businesses on East Washington though.

The article doesn't say there are any businesses being lost on East Washington under this proposal.

Ah, I missed the part on Mifflin.

I'm not sure if anything has been posted on this, but here's an article from the Daily Cardinal...


"Ogg demolition one step closer to reality"
City panel also votes unanimously on Mifflin razing
by Dan Tierney

The future of Madison's cityscape became more concrete Monday night when two major construction projects received approval from the city's Plan Commission. The demolition of the house at 353 W. Mifflin St. and Ogg Hall were both approved on consent. No additional commentary from the projects' respective parties was required by the commission.

Construction of the unnamed dormitory is already underway on Park Street, with the building of the "new," twin-towered Ogg Hall to occur on the open field adjacent to the South East Recreational Facility. University representatives present at the meeting expressed appreciation for their plan's swift and frictionless passage.

"We're pleased and excited," said Paul Evans, director of University Housing. "I think it's a great project for students."

Though he acknowledged an endorsement by the Plan Commission was necessary in the project application process, Ald. Mike Verveer, District 4, fully expected the evening's outcome.

"I'm not surprised in the least. ... I was pretty positive this would be a slam dunk tonight," Verveer said.

Gary Brown, UW-Madison Director of Planning & Landscape Architecture, echoed both Verveer and Evans' sentiments, attributing the project's success to thoughtful, preliminary committee deliberation. According to Brown, project developers fielded suggestions from students and community members, which led to stone upgrades on the dorm façade and more windows in observance of the Park Street Design Guidelines.

"It's all part of a big plan to redevelop the whole east side of campus," Brown added.

The vote on the leveling of 353 W. Mifflin St. was no less surprising to Cliff Fisher of Fisher Development. Fisher is currently overseeing the destruction of the Mifflin St. flat and the subsequent implementation of Phase II of the downtown apartment complex Metropolitan Place. The expansion, whose construction is scheduled for early this summer and is likely to last 16 months, will feature 164 units, an accessory parking structure, a grocery store and retail stores opening onto Broom Street.

"I'm just glad we're moving ahead here," Fisher said. "I couldn't see anyone being against me knocking that building down. ... It was rundown, and not every building needs to be saved."

The City of Madison Building Inspection Unit has recently written orders against the property for cockroach and mice infestation, water leaks, broken windows and other minor structural defects. Alec Williams, resident of 353 W. Mifflin St. for roughly half a year, was dismayed by the commission's decision and had begun his search for a new residence.

"I'm looking for any spot I can go," Williams said. "I need all the luck I can get."

Not monolithic by any means, but with this announcement comes a sudden feeling of overwelmingness when I think of all of the projects I need to track, and the only orginal words I can sputter are, "holy crap this town is growing!"

Gym is center of mixed-use proposal
00:00 am 4/07/05
Dean Mosiman Wisconsin State Journal

Downtown Madison may soon get sweatier - in a good way.

Developer Eric Minton is proposing an $11 million, nine- story, mixed-use development with a state-of-the-art fitness center, commercial space, housing and parking on the 400 block of West Washington Avenue.

The centerpiece, the 25,000- square-foot fitness center, would feature a basketball court, three-lane outdoor lap pool, high ceilings and natural light and space for aerobic classes, free weights and exercise equipment.

The project would also include space for an optometrist office, hair salons, 40 apartments including six lower-cost units and 98 mostly underground parking spaces.

Under the proposal, Minton would demolish a single-story building that houses the optometry offices of Dr. John Bonsett-Veal at 425 W. Washington Ave. and build a high- rise building of stone, brick and glass.

"We want to do a bit more contemporary but not ultra- modern," architect John Sutton said of the emerging design.

Bonsett-Veal, who owns the property, would relocate in the new building.

Minton, who owns Capitol Fitness centers at 302 East Washington Ave. and 44 W. Mifflin St., would close the latter facility and replace it with the new fitness center.

"I'm doing it because I have a commitment to the gym business and to Downtown," Minton said.

Ald. Mike Verveer, 4th District, who represents the area, said he likes the concept but predicted some in the neighborhood may raise concerns about the building's height.

The proposal will be discussed at a Bassett neighborhood meeting at 7 tonight at Meriter Main Gate, 333 W. Main St.

Minton said he's been searching for a location for a fitness center and decided new construction was needed to suit his vision.

The housing mix will include efficiencies, one- and two- bedroom apartments, he said, and the development will comply with a city's requirement for 15 percent lower-cost units. He said he won't seek any public subsidy for the project.

He also intends to provide summer camps and mentoring at the fitness center for children of low-income families.

The program, starting with a handful of 8- or 9-year olds, would provide activities and year-round mentoring and later employment opportunities as participants move through high school, Minton said. A new group of children would be added each summer.

If approvals are secured, Minton said he hopes to break ground in August.

A separate proposal by Delta Properties to demolish a two- story building and build a four- story, 18,000-square-foot office building with 45 parking spaces at 551 W. Main St. will also be discussed at the neighborhood meeting.

Contact Dean Mosiman at dmosiman@madison.com or 252-6141.

P.S. I am tracking every project on my website. Oh, and I'm still looking for help with it.

How do you need help? Slightly off topic, a more green-and-blue Madisonish skyline picture would make the site nice. The pic you are using is kind of winterish and drab.

Thanks for the advice. I know it needs to be picked up asthetically (coming), but I need help managing content. See, I work 50+ hours a week, and the success of my wife's website (which I manage) has grabbed about 10+ hours a week. I'm just afraid I won't be able to bring it up to where it should be, and I'm not getting the traffic I was hoping for because of that. For example, I'm missing tons of details and buildings from my buildings database.

Possible concerns about the height of a 9 story building? I think they need to change the name to the Village of Madison.

Possible concerns about the height of a 9 story building? I think they need to change the name to the Village of Madison.

Good one. There will always be someone in Madison bitching about building height. This one is of no concern though, since it's going to be practicallya cross the street from a 15-floor building.

http://wisconsinsirens.com/temp/Madison.jpg I took this today.

Nice picture. I don't recognize that bluer building on the right side though. I like how Madison's skyline is becoming longer though.

Also, am I the only one who doesn't think the Aberdeen is that ugly? I definitely am not into brick, and I like Madison's growing "modern/futuristic but not glassy" architecture that is developing, but looking down University Ave, I don't think its ugly at all.

The blue building on the far right is Marina Place.

http://wisconsinsirens.com/temp/Madison.jpg I took this today.

Hey Ben, if you were at Olin-Turville yesterday, then you were within feet of a dead body. Did you know that? One was found at the beach there at about 6:00.

What happened to that old proposal by brink... teh 12 story condo or whatever?

I'm having second thoughts on Archipelago Village. If it's pretty looking- aesthetic- I think I'd support it. I really think it could do a good job in trumping Urban Sprawl, and I think it would go a LONG WAY in revitalizing East Washington.

Here's a new article, came out yesterday.

http://badgerherald.com/news/2005/04/07/27story_complex_sti.php

Are there any colored pictures of Archipelago yet?

Hey Ben, if you were at Olin-Turville yesterday, then you were within feet of a dead body. Did you know that? One was found at the beach there at about 6:00.
http://datadrops.com/temp/madtrips.jpg

I took the picture below the little "knob" shaped section of Lake Monona on the left side directly above where I've marked the Aliant Energy Center(no I'm not done with this map). Perhaps a better explanation -- I walked down the bank to the "boat landing" with the picnic table in front of it. This is all located at the last establishment off the right hand turn at the last stop lights before you go over the lakes. This is also when you get off of the beltline to go downtown when heading from West to East on the beltline.

No, I didn't know there were any dead bodies around. There were 2 live ones. At least they appeared to be alive; I swore I heard them talking and in an upright position. I didn't bother them though, it was dark out the second time I went(tried a night time shot, flopped though). They just appeared to be friends/a couple anyways(talking quietly).

That WisconsinSirens site is neat, but I have never in my life seen such a weird fascination.

I'm surprised. If I rememeber right you said you were MATC/UW age, correct? That's strange; that's usually the age that you would find the largest abudance of typically males being extremely interested in railfanning, railroad equipment, firefighter apparatus, weather and yes, sirens.

I don't mind the weird comments; I've heard it all and they all make me laugh. I know how unusual the hobby is but I've treated it in a fairly positive fashion and quite frankly don't care what people think of it. I'm not trying to sound touchy; I simply don't care. Therefore when they over-react like the close-minded exagerting embarassment cases that they are, I can't help but laugh. S'like, jeebus, I'm the one enjoying sirens here and you're the one acting embarassed. Grow some balls man.

As said in the old Milwaukee thread, American Signal Corporation is stationed in Milwaukee and produces the currently loudest siren on the market, the T-135, which I have a video of on my siren site in the shape of that P-50 -- the P-50 is the old ITENTICAL version of the T-135 when the previous company had the same design. That one was filmed at State Fair Park in Milwaukee County by a West Allis resident.

The Decot siren was made in Sauk City, WI and you'll find that all over Wisconsin. Dane County has a notable siren system known throughout the Internet community of siren heads as "the land of every siren" simply because they have so many makes and models due to low budgeting. During the recent tornado I was coming through Mazomanie and noticed one of the town sirens was sounding but not rotating and this particular siren design had a rotational specification -- it's supposed to do circles. So I let the EMA know and they looked at it. Heh, last summer they last 2-3 sirens. I-dunno, I've got the links at my site and my board for Madison area siren info(if you care).

It all comes down to the sound, sone sirens exhibit an off-key musicalness that simply grabs me.

But I hate to go off-topic:
Mark, what's up with the dead body? Big news or just an unfortunate case? Sorry to seem ignorant.

OK, sorry about that. I just looked it up. They think he drown and you're right, I took my picture on the North side of that park right by the picnic table and the "boat landing" thing right along the lakeshore; took pictures Thursday afternoon and night.

hey ben, that sounds JUST like our conversation last night!! ha. Really I doubt anyone is trying to be offensive when they ask about your interest in sirens. The fact they ask about it most likely makes them NOT close-minded.

In fact, I think your extensive knowledge of the subject plus the enthusiam with which you talk about it makes it very interesting to hear about. Keep informing us, most people want to hear about.

Plus I've got a slogan for ya!! "The Loud. The Proud. Sirens." :)

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/index.php?ntid=35515

Average Madison home price rose to 223,000

hey ben, that sounds JUST like our conversation last night!! ha. Really I doubt anyone is trying to be offensive when they ask about your interest in sirens. The fact they ask about it most likely makes them NOT close-minded.

In fact, I think your extensive knowledge of the subject plus the enthusiam with which you talk about it makes it very interesting to hear about. Keep informing us, most people want to hear about.

Plus I've got a slogan for ya!! "The Loud. The Proud. Sirens." :)
Yeah, I'm not trying to be offensive but like badgers77 I think it is a "weird fascination". Ben and I share a love of maps so that right there puts him in my book as a great guy :)

Well...as said I'm not really being offended. Originally I suppose my reply to Badgers77 would be taken as me being defensive but I hoped to doge that misconpcetion by specifically saying things like, "I'm not offended." The over reactions I get sometimes just make me laugh. No need for a pity party. :)

Yep, Neph, mapping stuff is pretty. Which.. *drum roll* I do for sirens!

http://wisconsinsirens.com/widata/WestAllis.jpg

That's the coverage area of the 3 sirens in West Allis, WI. It's up to 60dB at the edge of that circle, approximately.

Hey Ben,

My wife drags me along on walks occasionally. I walked by a siren the other day and thought of you. I checked it out and told me wife all about this guy on a website I go to that's into that stuff. She ignored me (always does), but I must've thought your hobby was groovy enough to atleast mention to someone in the real world.

Enjoy it. Lord knows I've got a few hobbies that leave msot people scratchin' their heads.

Ben beat me to it by a couple of days, but here's some I took today from that same park while on my way to the zoo for a good time with my daughter...

http://www.madison-architecture.com/madarchfiles/skyline.jpg

http://www.madison-architecture.com/images/stories//skyline02.jpg

http://www.madison-architecture.com/images/stories//skyline03.jpg

P.S. I'm plastered right now.

Awesome pictures Jason. I need a better camera bad, mostly because mine is a 2 MP budet-level digital. The focusing is what I hate. If it would manual-focus or at least have settings that could focus at different distance, and handle light better we'd be set.

Dane County has 99 sirens, I need to star photographing Madison sirens. But you shuould've mentioned not "this guy" but "this guy told me lots of people" like sirens to you wife.

I have one waiting for mein a tiny town on the Southern outskirts of Atlanta. Others have me long beat. Some people own 5 or more full-sized sirens, in which most larger sized sirens are 4-8 feet tall and 400 - 1,000 lbs.

Here is the person who runs airraidsirens.com:
http://airraidsirens.com/projects/attic2t22_1024x768.jpg
http://airraidsirens.com/projects/model2refurbs_800x600.jpg
http://airraidsirens.com/projects/atticrear_640x480.jpg
http://airraidsirens.com/projects/atticcarters_640x480.jpg

This is the exact siren model I have to arrange for pick-up:
http://datadrops.com/temp/1000.jpg
(I did the graphic for that kid's shirt too, btw)

Has their been any updates on the Madison light rail idea? I really would like to see them go light rail, and be as economically efficient as possible. I would like them to do something "futuristic" and modern- something that would define Madison even further.

How do you feel about it, Jason? Ben?

I don't know if they could do it and make it aesthetic.

I only represent 3 people (my wife, my daughter, and myself), and can tell you that we will probably never step foot on light rail in Madison. That's 0-for-3, a very small sample size, but not a good ratio so far. In other words, I think it's an idea that will flop, but it doesn't mean that I don't think it's a neat idea.

To answer your first question, "no", there aren't any newsworthy updates.

I'm fine in Madison with a car.

http://www.madison-architecture.com/madarchfiles/skyline.jpg

Sorry, dumb question: Which side would A-Village be on?

The right side.

That's what I thought. About midway through?

E Washington turns into 151. When you come across the lake from the Alliant Energy Center and drive under the Monona Terrace you'll keep going until you get to East Washington. It'll be in that area somewhere.

I don't have a map on me right now and Mark I think, maybe it was Jason, were a bit picky about me not using street signs when 151 was clearly marked all the way; that's how I found my way without knowing the local streets.

See that smoke stack? There's actually 4 smoke stacks (MGE power plant) in a row there going off the right side of the image. AV would be about 1-2 blocks to the right(east), and 1-2 blocks back further from the water(north). In other words, it's not in the skyline. It's not even really "downtown".

Besides, AV isn't ever going to happen anywhere near it's proposed state, so don't worry about it. At most it will be 2-3 12-15-floors buildings.

Some tidbits today:

The children's museum finds a new home thanks to Frautchi's $5million gift. (http://www.madison-architecture.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=233&Itemid=60)

Construction set to begin on the Hilldale Mall expansion (the most urban indoor-mall in Madison) (http://www.madison-architecture.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=234&Itemid=60)

Another St. Mary's expansion about to get going (this one is a $174million expansion (http://www.madison-architecture.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=235&Itemid=60)

12-15 stories would still make me happy. Anything to make E. Washington bettter and start more projects there.

Still, I wouldn't mind the big one. I think Madison could handle it, and I think it would be aesthetic, and wouldn't stand out like the GM buildings in Detroit (which mainly just stick out like a sore thumb because they are so detached from the skyline).

Madison has decide if they are going to let this gimmick of capitol view from like every possible angle truly hinder, quite harshly, their development and the redevelopment of E. Washington. I mean, Capitol Views are great- but the most important ones are from the lakes, which E. Washington wouldn't bother, and driving down E. Washington.

Sure, it would draw attention away from the Capitol, though.

Ah, it's off that? That really would stick out like a sore thumb if it's all on one block. The high rises across the street will add skyline over there, though. The ithsmus is smaller than it looks in these pictures. I know AV is supposed to be about a mile away. I didn't know a mile was that far down the ithsmus.

And am I the only one who thinks the new courthouse is really ugly on the new skyline? It looks bright yellow.

I hope that AV highrise project doesn't go through in its origional form. That is one of the most oppressively overscaled projects I've ever seen in my life. If it was actually seperate towers, that would be one thing. But that project is like 6 highrises all crammed together to form one gigantically nasty PoMo blob. Las Vegas builds sorry shit like that, not respectable cities like Madison.

Yeah I'm on the site right now. I'm really not sure. I'm not even crazy about the architecture, but I would really like Madison to get a taller building. I don't really understand what they mean with making it a transportation hub. How would that work? Jason, can you help?

The rail-line that runs through town runs right behind that location. So Brink somehow thinks that if light-rail happens in Madison, that there will be a depot at his property, making it a trans-hub. Whatever. I think that city planners will make that decision.