You have probly seen this thread before (maybe) But what is the number one city in Ohio!

Cleveland
http://70.67.36.50/web_pics/images/users/larry/cities/usa/cleveland.jpg

Cincinnati
http://www.cincinnati-apartments.com/cincinnati.jpg

Colombus
http://70.67.36.50/web_pics/images/users/larry/cities/usa/usa/colombus_oh.jpg

Toledo
http://www.toledo.com/tour/images/skylinemain.jpg

http://urbanohio.com/SWOhio/Cincinnati/Skyline/Night27.jpg
http://urbanohio.com/SWOhio/Cincinnati/Skyline/Cinypan1.jpg
http://urbanohio.com/SWOhio/Cincinnati/Neighborhoods/EastWalnutHills/GoldCoast10.JPG
http://urbanohio.com/SWOhio/Cincinnati/Neighborhoods/EastWalnutHills/EdenPark4.JPG
http://urbanohio.com/SWOhio/Cincinnati/Neighborhoods/Downtown/101-0142_IMG.jpg
http://www.ohioskylines.com/SWOhio/Cincinnati/Neighborhoods/OverTheRhine/OTR1.JPG
http://www.ohioskylines.com/SWOhio/Cincinnati/Neighborhoods/MtAdams/MtAdams1.JPG
http://urbanohio.com/SWOhio/Cincinnati/Landmarks/Bridge1.jpg
http://urbanohio.com/SWOhio/Cincinnati/Landmarks/UnTerm1.JPG
http://urbanohio.com/SWOhio/Cincinnati/Landmarks/CityHallNight2.JPG
http://urbanohio.com/SWOhio/Cincinnati/Landmarks/MusicHall3.JPG
[img]

Great pictures

Is it safe to say when it comes to hills, Cincy is in a league by itself among all midwestern cities.

Great picture of downtown Cleveland looking east from across the river. Is it just me or does Cleveland with its lakefront and cluster of skyscrapers, come across as a smaller version of Chicago than any other city?

It seems that so often when Columbus photos are shown, OSU is not included. As a big B10 fan, I know well how much hold the Buckeyes have over Columbus and all of Ohio. But, athletics aside, with the tremendous growth of Columbus, how much does OSU dominate the way that city functions? Dare I suggest here that it has less of an influence than that "that school up north" (using Woody Hayes' term) has over Ann Arbor?

Or even how large, but not-as-large Madison is affected by UW? When you go to places the size of Bloomington and Iowa City, the u's totally dominate those cities lives.

One last question, if anyone could answer:

I've driven through Cincy, but really don't know the city.

The hills and the bluffs? They are mainly connected and created by the river....right?

What is the lay of the land throughout metro Cincy? Is it hilliest along both the OH and KY banks of the river? On the Ohio side, do the hills continue north of the waterfront or do they flatten out pretty quickly?

are the hills mostly even hills (in the sense of a series of ups and downs, along the lines of SF) or are they mostly just river bluffs?

whatever they are, they are damned impressive. thanks for any info you can share.

1 questions. why isnt dayton in here? toledo around 750,000 to dayton 1,081,000.

It's crazy how a state like Ohio has its populations so (fairly) evenly divided into three cities! I think that's great.

cincy and clevland tie for me, they are both are urban, good skylines got an old character to them and have good shopping, especialy cinci for a city its size...

I voted for Toledo, just because no one else has. :)

Columbus is spelled wrong in the poll. :)

Cincinnati - Beat up the gay man.

Cleveland - Beat up every man.

Columbus - We're just trying to grow so fast and be eclectic while still catering to the soccer moms in their mini-vans, that we don't have time to worry about "the gays".

Toledo - Oh my, we're just being silly now aren't we?

Winner by default - Columbus.

One last question, if anyone could answer:

I've driven through Cincy, but really don't know the city.

The hills and the bluffs? They are mainly connected and created by the river....right?

What is the lay of the land throughout metro Cincy? Is it hilliest along both the OH and KY banks of the river? On the Ohio side, do the hills continue north of the waterfront or do they flatten out pretty quickly?

are the hills mostly even hills (in the sense of a series of ups and downs, along the lines of SF) or are they mostly just river bluffs?

whatever they are, they are damned impressive. thanks for any info you can share.
The hills of Cincinnati are basically just raised plateaus (i.e., they are flattened on top). They continue out and away from the Ohio in the river valleys of the Great Miami, the Mill Creek, the Little Miami, etc. There is very little "flat" land in the metro. It really doesn't flatten out much until you get up into parts of Butler and Warren counties (the counties north of Cincinnati's county, and eastern Clermont County to the east).

The type of hills really depends. I live north of DT, and every possible way I can take to go downtown is downhill.

The hills of Cincinnati are basically just raised plateaus (i.e., they are flattened on top). They continue out and away from the Ohio in the river valleys of the Great Miami, the Mill Creek, the Little Miami, etc. There is very little "flat" land in the metro. It really doesn't flatten out much until you get up into parts of Butler and Warren counties (the counties north of Cincinnati's county, and eastern Clermont County to the east).

The type of hills really depends. I live north of DT, and every possible way I can take to go downtown is downhill.

Thanks, grasscat,

Parts of what your wrote are what I thought....I knew the hills rise from the Ohio (although the downtown section is relatively flat...right?). But if the area is basically plateau once it builds up elevation away from the river....isn't that basically "flatening out"? I guess I'm asking, more than anything else: do the dips up and down continue north away from the downtown area of is it basically this: up directly north of downtown and then staying that way.

I've driven through Cincy, and unfortunately didn't get a chance to stop. Neat looking city...I just can't get that great of a feel for how the topography works. I do know that a number of areas along the Mississippi (like Dubuque, IA), has huge bluffs slightly inland from the river..and then it generally flattens out.

any more insight you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Cincinnati - Beat up the gay man.

Cleveland - Beat up every man.

Columbus - We're just trying to grow so fast and be eclectic while still catering to the soccer moms in their mini-vans, that we don't have time to worry about "the gays".

Toledo - Oh my, we're just being silly now aren't we?

Winner by default - Columbus.

LOL, well as a gay man I would have to argee with your statement. However as for the best city, are we looking at skyline only? If so, I go for Cincy. Cincy is only an hour north of Lexington and we are up a lot. The city has a lot to offer but is not as "open" even compared to Lexington! As for openness and gay scene it is Columbus .

Columbus no question.

Cleveland...

I voted for Cleveland, I really think it is one of the best cities in the country.

Cincinnati. Cleveland reeks and Columbus isnt as urban as Cincinnati.

http://www.lighthouse.boatnerd.com/gallery/Erie/cleveland-withcity-tz.jpg

And Clevelands soverign King, King James:
http://sportsposterwarehouse.com/warehouse/lebron04nike-1.jpg

http://www.airplanephotos.net/photos/Downtown_1.jpg

Hey look everyone, you're not paying attention. FerrariEnzo and yo are showing that Cleveland and Cincinnati should tie in this poll, because, as you can clearly see in their photos, Cleveland and Cincinnati have cars, roads, buildings, water, grass, and trees. Making them the obvious choices, strictly based on these unique aspects that no other Ohio city can match. Unless, of course, you Columbus or Toledo people can show me that your cities also possess these rare gems of cars, roads, buildings, water, grass and trees. :colgate:

Ok Cincinnati and Cleveland both are great cities. Columbus as well is a great city but for decades Cincinnati and Cleveland always over shadowed Columbus. Cle and Cin are both large urban centers whose populations back in the day were quite larger than today and Columbus was stuck in the middle like the middle sister. It was very tough for Columbus to compete with two large players on the SW and the NE corners of the state. People fled Columbus for Cleveland and Cincinnati because both cities were more urban offered more jobs and their central city population base was very strong. So Columbus was just shrugged off until the 80's thats when Columbus began to grow more and to this day is still growing. Is it the fastest growing city? perhaps not. But the metro is good enough for over 1.5 million people or else they wouldnt be there. There is no doubt in my mind or most anyone else's that Columbus will ever be as urban as Cleveland and Cincinnati it has years to go before it reaches that. Regardless here is my presentation of the city I love. None of the pictures are mine nor do i know who took them.

http://www.drewsworld.org/woobiewecka/030504a.jpg
http://www.designsfortheweb.com/cmh/photos/twamd80.jpg
http://ohioskylines.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Skyline/ColSkyline2.jpg
http://www.shihab.net/UCMObjects/4075095F-65BF-DA5C-0101EC00EDB25B6F/columbus-skyline-at-night.jpg
http://urbanohio.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Skyline/Skyline22.JPG

http://www.officespace.com/osoweb/columbus/aerphoto.jpg
http://www.columbuskiwanis.org/images/Columbus_Skyline.jpg
http://theatre.osu.edu/3_people/level_3_people/alumni/assets_alumni/columbus.jpg
http://downtownplan.columbus.gov/images/skyline_a.jpg

Short North
http://www.columbusohio.org/Gallery/Short%20North/Short%20North%204.JPG
http://www.columbusohio.org/Gallery/Short%20North/Short%20North%2019.JPG
http://www.columbusohio.org/Gallery/Short%20North/Short%20North%2014.JPG
http://www.columbusohio.org/Gallery/Short%20North/Short%20North%203.JPG

Arena District
http://urbanohio.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Neighborhoods/ArenaDistrict/AD29.jpg
http://urbanohio.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Neighborhoods/ArenaDistrict/AD13.jpg

cutting south of the west split to the Brewery district
http://www.urbanohio.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Neighborhoods/BreweryDistrict/Brewery27.jpg
http://www.urbanohio.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Neighborhoods/BreweryDistrict/Brewery21.jpg
http://www.urbanohio.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Neighborhoods/BreweryDistrict/Brewery18.jpg

Some pics from downtown

http://urbanohio.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Landmarks/SH6.JPG

looking SE notice in the top right hand you see hills rising thats the western edge of the foothills that the suburbs are creaping up on.
http://urbanohio.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Neighborhoods/Downtown/Downtown45.JPG

looking East
http://urbanohio.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Neighborhoods/Downtown/Aerial1.jpg

looking north
http://urbanohio.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Neighborhoods/Downtown/Downtown12.jpg

lookoing south
http://urbanohio.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Neighborhoods/Downtown/Downtown48.JPG

German village from high up
http://www.urbanohio.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Neighborhoods/GermanVillage/GV13.JPG

Columbus Metropolitan Library
http://urbanohio.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Landmarks/Library.JPG

Columbus museum of Art
http://urbanohio.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Landmarks/CMoA.JPG

Quote:Hey look everyone, you're not paying attention. FerrariEnzo and yo are showing that Cleveland and Cincinnati should tie in this poll, because, as you can clearly see in their photos, Cleveland and Cincinnati have cars, roads, buildings, water, grass, and trees. Making them the obvious choices, strictly based on these unique aspects that no other Ohio city can match. Unless, of course, you Columbus or Toledo people can show me that your cities also possess these rare gems of cars, roads, buildings, water, grass and trees.

You forgot to mention Cleveland's King, dont let it happen again.....

LOL Just for the record, I dont find it a problem being gay in Cincinnati, the city seems to be bursting at the seems with homos that arent in immediate danger of persecution, it is just what people not from here think when they hear of our past law etc. Big wow gays arent really liked anywhere and I seriously doubt it would be easier to be gay in Lexington Kentucky LOL HAHAHHAHAH.

hey being gay in Columbus :dance: was easy for me :whisper: no one cares about the fags. No one cares about anyone there just do your own thing :master: worship satan for all they care and thats what I like about that city. :grouphug:

LOL Just for the record, I dont find it a problem being gay in Cincinnati, the city seems to be bursting at the seems with homos that arent in immediate danger of persecution, it is just what people not from here think when they hear of our past law etc. Big wow gays arent really liked anywhere and I seriously doubt it would be easier to be gay in Lexington Kentucky LOL HAHAHHAHAH.

SChristopher, for the record, Lexington has the largest gay pop. per cap. of any city it's size according to the Advocate. Lexington has the largest same-sex households in the state of KY. The city of Lexington has had gay rights and same-sex benefits, anti-discrimination laws for gay employment and housing, the first city in KY to do so and that was done back in the 80's. Louisville and Covington also have the same laws as Lexington, modeled after our city.

Columbus is definatly the gay mecca of Ohio, and it has been said possibly of the whole midwest. As far as Lexington, I have heard that it has the highest population in Kentucky, thats good, but it is still a very small metro and I wouldnt dare compare it with Cincinnati, thats all I was saying. In the past the law hasnt really been on gay peoples side but it isnt represented in the streets. If you have a story about someone you know or yourself being persecuted about being gay or not being able to find anywhere to go out because there wasnt a bar for you or being discriminated for something I am all ears :).

I lived in Columbus, Ohio for one year and it one of the greatest cities in America. The pictures are just breathtaking. The friendliness of the people is just amazing, the long-time residents of Columbus have a small-town personality. Columbus is still a city where the average Joe makes it rather easily. Ohio State University has one of the friendliest student body's in America with no pretention or arrogance.

Columbus may, in the next few decades, become the next city proper in the midwest to claim one million residents...

Yea for real Columbus is great. I live in south Florida now and i'd rather be in Columbus. Its a kewl mix of cultures too. Not just international or races but the southern suburbs has a lot of southern people like my relatives (and myself) :horse: and they have the southern accents. Then you go to the northern suburbs settled by people from all points north and there is no southern accent.

yea columbus does have a lot of queers, but id rather have my gritty art mecca in cleveland

see i dunno, Cleveland has the bombed out parts of the city issues that Detroit and Philly have. And then Columbus is all yawntastic and sunbelty and then Cincinatti is the reason Bush got into the whitehouse lol.

So i dont know, i laughed at the postcard views of cincy in this thread, the bird-eye-view-to-hide-the-grit shots of cleveland, and i yawned at those columbus photos.

and something tells me toledo isnt going to be any better.

so hometime pride: cleveland

haha

seriously though, cleveland and cincy should be tied and toledo should be ahead of columbus.

Well, I remeber growing up in London Ontario which was right across lake Erie from Cleveland. Use to get Cleveland TV and Radio. This was in the 70's and Cleveland was the butt of jokes. When you wanted to talk about crappy cities it was eithe Cleveland or Detroit.
My dad always said when it drove to Cleveland you could smell it before you see it.
In the late 70's it had gone into bankrupsy and had an INCREDIBLY bad reputation in nearly all categories.
Cleveland now has a reputation that it has turned the corner and is enjoying a rennaisance. My dad went there not to long ago and said he couldn't beleive it was the same city. He was very impressed.
It has a reputation of what a city can do to renew itself, Detroit could really learn a lesson from Cleveland.
Seeing Cleveland has nicer architecture than Columbus, I'll go with Cleveland.
I've been to Cincinatte........best thing about it was it was on I-75, the Canadian snowbird highway to Florida.

Steubenville!

PS>>>>>>>>
You want to see gays, come to Canada.
Everyone is getting married left, right , and centre. You can even marry at an army base if you are member of the forces.
None of this "don't say, don't tell" shit.
Canadians are a pretty liberal lot so no one seems to care that much.

i LOVE columbus. even though some claim columbus will never be as "urban" as cincinnati and cleveland, who cares! i think columbus is a wonderful urban city. it has that nice mix of conservatives, like me, and the liberals. our downtown is on the up and up, we have great neighborhoods(downtown, short north, german village, franklin park area, clintonville, victorian village, grandview, a soon to be reinvigorated linden district, old towne east), great restaurants(spagio, the refectory, rigsbys, brownstone on main, seven stars inn restaurant, liu pon xi), museums(the columbus art museum!!!, the wexner center, museum of television, COSI), great people, great shopping(new hope for city center), great architecutre(miranova, the supreme court building on front street, the levque tower, the statehouse, the 5/3 building, the huntington center) and we are a city that has lots of potential! everyone needs to be on the lookout for columbus in the future!

i LOVE columbus. even though some claim columbus will never be as "urban" as cincinnati and cleveland, who cares! i think columbus is a wonderful urban city. it has that nice mix of conservatives, like me, and the liberals. our downtown is on the up and up, we have great neighborhoods(downtown, short north, german village, franklin park area, clintonville, victorian village, grandview, a soon to be reinvigorated linden district, old towne east), great restaurants(spagio, the refectory, rigsbys, brownstone on main, seven stars inn restaurant, liu pon xi), museums(the columbus art museum!!!, the wexner center, museum of television, COSI), great people, great shopping(new hope for city center), great architecutre(miranova, the supreme court building on front street, the levque tower, the statehouse, the 5/3 building, the huntington center) and we are a city that has lots of potential! everyone needs to be on the lookout for columbus in the future!

Many of the areas you write about--short north, german village, victorian village, have been gentrified by gads of homosexuals. Just so it's clear who is doing the dirty work of livening up Columbus! :)

Signed,
Fellow Uranian

BTW, Cincinnati gets my vote over Cleveland--ONLY because of the setting of the city and the beautiful Over The Rhine neighborhood. Cincinnati is the most beautiful, falling apart city in the Midwest.

http://www.urbanohio.com/SWOhio/Cincinnati/Neighborhoods/OverTheRhine/OTR6.JPG

http://www.aquinas-multimedia.com/church/p-frsp.gif

i knew that gay people have made those areas very nice. i am not a homphobe in any way. i dont hate gay people or bash them. i hope that because i said i was a conservative implied that i was a homophobe or gay basher, because i am not and i do appreciate what the gay population has done for columbus in the area of gentrification.

I like Columbus the best
2nd would be Cincinnati
3rd Cleveland

BTW, Cincinnati gets my vote over Cleveland--ONLY because of the setting of the city and the beautiful Over The Rhine neighborhood. Cincinnati is the most beautiful, falling apart city in the Midwest.

http://www.urbanohio.com/SWOhio/Cincinnati/Neighborhoods/OverTheRhine/OTR6.JPG

http://www.aquinas-multimedia.com/church/p-frsp.gif

....Over-The-Rhine, best seen from afar.

If one could combine the "Three Cs" one would have Chicago or San Francisco...which is a good thing for Ohio as the state has three large cities, each interesting in their own way.

The only thing I was jealous about while living in Columbus was Clevelands Rapid. Columbus has had light rail planned forever but I have no idea if they have scraped that idea or its just on hold forever.
Acording to COTA they have 8 lines planned for Columbus, but as we all know most cities just talk about it and dont do shit. So far they have the Draft Environment Impact Statement for the North line but I still have no idea how much longer if and when they break ground on the line.
http://www.cotafasttrax.com/8_rails_big.php

Here is COTA's FastTrax website
http://www.cotafasttrax.com

Cincinnati is the most beautiful, falling apart city in the Midwest.

Falling apart my ass.

Hey, Jeff...why do you insist on parroting that tired "Best seen from afar" phrase about OTR? Do you think that's clever?

I'm also going to jump in and agree with the folks who hype Columbus. It's a city with some great neighborhoods, and a downtown that's on its way to becoming something special. They're getting things done up there.

I have been to Columbus twice recently and I must agree that it has some amazing neighborhoods....the downtown left alot to be desired for a city that size (as most), but it looked as though it was coming along. The mall their looked really funny and out of place, a little imposing on the street, and there was one portion set back from the road with a grassy lawn or something. Who ever thought of that....wasnt really thinking.

I have been to Cincinnati a number of times and I like the way downtown seems to look as though it is part of a much larger city in some places, and they have a good mix of old...and newer. I love the way over the rhine looks and it has great architecture, but lets face it...it needs work. Work it is getting ...but it doesnt look very much different year to year. I have seen districts (much smaller of course) where density and great architecture like this is more celebrated...it is sad to see the lack of up keep on some of the structures.

Been to Toledo once, it was "Joe Public's" city. I liked it though, nice place felt larger than it was....same with Dayton...Daytons downtown actually made me feel cozy and like I was in a decent sized city at the same time.

Never been to Cleveland...looks nice...

All of the state has scenic beauty, I think from what I have been to Columbus is the least "pretty" naturally. Of course I have not been ALL around it, maybe I missed something.

i knew that gay people have made those areas very nice. i am not a homphobe in any way. i dont hate gay people or bash them. i hope that because i said i was a conservative implied that i was a homophobe or gay basher, because i am not and i do appreciate what the gay population has done for columbus in the area of gentrification.

That's cool--and I didn't automatically assume that because you call yourself a conservative that you were homophobic. I guess I was just reacting to the many visible people who define conservative as being homophobic. Thanks for responding...

And I do think the city of Cincinnati--at least many of the areas near downtown where I have bicycled--are falling down. But in that beautiful, Roman ruin sort of way! Over the Rhine is one of the most amazing neighborhoods in the US, a place I'd prefer to drive rather than ride as evening sets. But a great place to bike around during the day...

And if Cincy, Cols and Cleveland were one city? It would be another Chicago--three very interesting cities. Dayton too--I really love Dayton--the hills, the electric buses and the old old buildings. Cool place, and very underappreciated, IMHO. I wish we had more cool cities--in the physical sense--in Indiana. We're a little too suburbanized here for my taste...

why do you insist on parroting that tired "Best seen from afar" phrase about OTR? Do you think that's clever?



...I think its true...based on my experience with the neighborhood. I would not judge Cincinnati based on one neighborhood, though...

Dayton too--I really love Dayton--the hills, the electric buses and the old old buildings. Cool place, and very underappreciated, IMHO. I wish we had more cool cities--in the physical sense--in Indiana. We're a little too suburbanized here for my taste...

Oh please, that is 'reaching' about Dayton. It is pretty bland.

Indiana has some interesting smaller cities, like Fort Wayne and South Bend...

Oh please, that is 'reaching' about Dayton. It is pretty bland.

Indiana has some interesting smaller cities, like Fort Wayne and South Bend...

Well, I'm sure it's bland for somebody living in Washington Twp...

thanks for responding cjfjapan. even as a conservative christian, i dont hate gay people, even though i may not agree with everything they say or do. also i think people need to give columbus, dayton, and toledo more credit. even cincinnati. take some of the spotlight off of cleveland and let it shine on ohios other great cities, even those i did not mention. each is different and unique in its own way and their downtowns offer something different for everyone. even though cities like columbus, dayton, toledo, akron, etc... may not be like cleveland, just give them a few more years to come into their own, and i think people may be pleasently surprised. come explore columbus, you may be surprised about how cosmopolitan and sophisticated we are. i like our "cowtown" name and our big city/small town feel and attitude.

Well, I'm sure it's bland for somebody living in Washington Twp...

I wouldn't live anywhere else..well, maybe Oakwood....

Dayton is what it is, and it isn't the three big cities in the thread header...but hey, thats OK too....

Bland and "not one of the three C's" do not coorelate and Washington Twp's history does not "coorelate" with Oakwood or even northern Dayton neighborhoods.

Bland and "not one of the three C's" do not coorelate and Washington Twp's history does not "coorelate" with Oakwood or even northern Dayton neighborhoods.


whatever.

Well, I can say that Cleveland definatly has the reputation of the come-back-city.
If Cleveland can do then so should Detroit be able to but it won't. In manyways I think Detroiter's have come to the conclusion that it is beyond hope and are just going to let it die a slow death.
You can all the baseball fields and casinos you want it won't make any difference if there is no one living there.

And I do think the city of Cincinnati--at least many of the areas near downtown where I have bicycled--are falling down. But in that beautiful, Roman ruin sort of way! Over the Rhine is one of the most amazing neighborhoods in the US, a place I'd prefer to drive rather than ride as evening sets. But a great place to bike around during the day...

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought you meant the whole city was falling down!

OTR does need a lot of work. It is slowly but surely getting there, but a lot of these owners of vacant buildings need to be held accountable. It is unacceptable to allow these buildings to deteriorate until they have to be torn down.

Cincinnati for me. Cleveland may have the nicest skyline, but Cincinnati's natural settings combined with their neighborhoods make it a hell of a city.

Cincinnati for me. Cleveland may have the nicest skyline, but Cincinnati's natural settings combined with their neighborhoods make it a hell of a city.
Cleveland nice skyline??? never heard that before...

^Fisrt off he said "nicest" implying a superlative and thus in comparison and second I dont think Clevelands skyline is anything to be embaressed about.

this thread is hilarious

thanks for the laughs and the complete pilfering of UO's images

I wouldn't live anywhere else..well, maybe Oakwood....

Dayton is what it is, and it isn't the three big cities in the thread header...but hey, thats OK too....
Dayton is competing with Hamilton and Westchester for Cincinnatis largest suburb...

Well, I can say that Cleveland definatly has the reputation of the come-back-city.
If Cleveland can do then so should Detroit be able to but it won't. In manyways I think Detroiter's have come to the conclusion that it is beyond hope and are just going to let it die a slow death.
You can all the baseball fields and casinos you want it won't make any difference if there is no one living there.

What does Detroit have to do with this thread????

Cincy- the river makes the city looks better than Cleveland.

Especially from this pic made by montecarloss
at SSC, http://www.pbase.com/montecarloss/image/43947705/original.jpg

Well, after I talked up Cincy, I found some good pictures of Cleveland, too...

http://k43.pbase.com/u42/tremont/upload/27415125.cleveland_cuyahoga1737sm.jpg

http://www.clevelandskyscrapers.com/lakeview/garfieldsky.jpg

All four cities are pretty much the same culturally-wise and state of mind. I enjoy all four cities even though I live in one of them. Cincy, Clevely, C-town, and Tole-DUH all have something to offer--we all have bad marks along with good marks. Just blame the bad marks on the corrupt Republican-controlled government in Columbus that keeps our tax dollars away from our communities.

Cleveland is wonderful with entertainment and sports venue;

Columbus is wonderful with shopping destinations and Short North;

Cincinnati is wonderful with sceneries and museums;

Toledo is wonderful because its like a small town atmosphere in a big city with the amazing Toledo Zoo, Art Museum, Mud Hens, the riverfront skyline, abundance of restaurants, and of course the proximity to the Lake Erie Islands and Cedar Point Amusement Park.

You can drive to any of the cities within a few hours and find yourself amazed of how well these cities are put together with rich history and dynamic people.

:okay:

One of these things are not like the others. Columbus has only grown because of annexed farm land. I am not knocking our capital city, only stating a fact. The other majors in Ohio have been locked out of growth since the 50' and 60's or even longer. Columbus has been feeding off of the state trough for decades while the others fight for the pieces to keep the cities afloat. Personally, Cleveland and Cincy are my favorites for Ohio in that order. Yeah, I know where I live.

isn't Toledo a suburb of Detroit... didn't they try to succession a few times...

isn't Toledo a suburb of Detroit... didn't they try to succession a few times...
That's funny. I notice you don't list where you are from. Are you embarrassed? Toledo is much better shape than Detroit has been in a loooong time. If it weren't for the casinos I don't think you would get anyone to downtown Detroit. You can still do alot of things in Toledo that people in Detroit love to come here and do.

isn't Toledo a suburb of Detroit... didn't they try to succession a few times...

Um no..never in the history since United States became a country in 1776.


:rant:

That's funny. I notice you don't list where you are from. Are you embarrassed? Toledo is much better shape than Detroit has been in a loooong time. If it weren't for the casinos I don't think you would get anyone to downtown Detroit. You can still do alot of things in Toledo that people in Detroit love to come here and do.


I agree with the statement about Detroit--many people consider Detroit as Beruit. Now I'm not exaggerating with that comment but that's how people feel. I've heard it over and over. Majority of the Ohioans usually go thru Detroit to get into Windsor or go to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

BWAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Cleveland followed closey by Cincy, the others are far behind.

Gosh, having seen both I never would have thought that Toledo would have more ammenities to travel to than a metro of 5 million (?) like Detroit. I think id have to say that IS a pretty decent exaggeration.

On the same note I wouldnt say Toledo is a "Suburb" of Detroit, maybe a counterpart, but certainly not a suburb.

Toledo is much more Detroit than Ohio....

how did detroit find its way into this thread? this isn't 1833

why is no one voting for columbus in the poll? dont people like columbus? i think we need to give cleveland and cincinnati a break and let the light shine on ohio's other gems such as columbus, dayton, toledo, akron and youngstown.

columbus is great because of its people, its big city feel/look with small town friendliness(most of the time), our skyline and architecture, restaurants, shopping(short north, easton, soon to be revitizlized city center, polaris, german village), neighborhoods(short north, vic village, german village, OTE,franklin park, clintonville, beechwold, downtown, the soon to be booming franklinton area), improving riverfront, culture(opera columbus, ballet met, CAPA, columbus museum of art, gallery hop), our zoo, and quite a few others.

why is no one voting for columbus in the poll? dont people like columbus? i think we need to give cleveland and cincinnati a break and let the light shine on ohio's other gems such as columbus, dayton, toledo, akron and youngstown.

columbus is great because of its people, its big city feel/look with small town friendliness(most of the time), our skyline and architecture, restaurants, shopping(short north, easton, soon to be revitizlized city center, polaris, german village), neighborhoods(short north, vic village, german village, OTE,franklin park, clintonville, beechwold, downtown, the soon to be booming franklinton area), improving riverfront, culture(opera columbus, ballet met, CAPA, columbus museum of art, gallery hop), our zoo, and quite a few others.
the problem that I have with Columbus is the same one that I have with Indy, KC, Knoxville etc etc... they are one of the many "ANYWHERE USA" cities out there meaning there is zero culture or personality that sets them apart... change the "Welcome to" sign and they're all the same... you know.. .the towns where the people think Macaroni Grill and Fridays are the shit... you know ... Columbus...

Columbus has only grown because of annexed farm land

Well that might be true if one were talking about the city proper, but the city limits is hardly an accurate portrait of a city, that's why the default of talking about a city, should be its metro. Metro Columbus is bar far the fastest growing metro in the state, Cincy has some growth and Cleveland has poor/little growth.

I don't say this to pick one city over the other, but just for clarification.

Really, there are 3 cities in one tier, Cleveland, Col, Cincy and then a second tier of Akron, Dayton and Toledo, possibly Youngstown.

how can you say that columbus has no culture or personality??? and whats wrong with Indy, KC and knoxville? whats the matter with fridays? i think its a good place to eat, but i dont think its the best place in columbus. have you heard of rigsbys, the ocean club, the refectory, schmidts, mitchells, abbracci, liu pon xi, rj snappers, etc...? we have lots of great places to eat. our cultural life is pretty damn good to. our art museum may not be like clevealnds or cincinnatis, but it is still one of the best(in my opinion at least) and have you been to the wexner center or any perfomances of opera columbus or ballet met?

:runaway: :cheers:

how can you say that columbus has no culture or personality??? and whats wrong with Indy, KC and knoxville? whats the matter with fridays? i think its a good place to eat, but i dont think its the best place in columbus. have you heard of rigsbys, the ocean club, the refectory, schmidts, mitchells, abbracci, liu pon xi, rj snappers, etc...? we have lots of great places to eat. our cultural life is pretty damn good to. our art museum may not be like clevealnds or cincinnatis, but it is still one of the best(in my opinion at least) and have you been to the wexner center or any perfomances of opera columbus or ballet met?
Schmidts is real good but nothing special, Rigsbys big thumbs up, again nothing out of the ordinary... refectory, nice but again not great French food, good wine list, but stunning decor....ocean club is a cheesy mall dump, mitchells is a chain and overpriced and the others I'm not sure. Again, all nice places that you can find in "every city" USA. And the museum and ballet is "anycity USA" again... bad no. Nice yes. Great ....please...

Forgive the idiocy:

• maybe Toledo has to change its name to Coledo to be a part of this C group

• and perhaps it would make more sense to turn the state into Cohio....you know, giving you guys the whole Philly/Pgh/PA thing, in C's, not P's.

sorry :weirdo:

Schmidts is real good but nothing special, Rigsbys big thumbs up, again nothing out of the ordinary... refectory, nice but again not great French food, good wine list, but stunning decor....ocean club is a cheesy mall dump, mitchells is a chain and overpriced and the others I'm not sure. Again, all nice places that you can find in "every city" USA. And the museum and ballet is "anycity USA" again... bad no. Nice yes. Great ....please...

regarding dining, this is something I would guess that Cincy and Cleveland are maybe marginally better. Most cities are being overtaken by chain restaurants at the expense of local-ness and mom n' pop flavor. But younger faster growing cities do end of with more chains and chains want to get into the new areas.

Culturally, I would think that Cleveland would the have the edge.

what is your beef with cities like columbus, indy and KC??? do you have something against these cities. Im sorry these cities cant be like the great cleveland. i think you should give these cities a chance instead of just putting them off and disregarding them. im glad columbus, indy and KC are not like cleveland. each is unique and better in its own way and style.

what is your beef with cities like columbus, indy and KC??? do you have something against these cities. Im sorry these cities cant be like the great cleveland. i think you should give these cities a chance instead of just putting them off and disregarding them. im glad columbus, indy and KC are not like cleveland. each is unique and better in its own way and style.
I have no beef with KC and Columbus... if you took off your smoked glasses, you'd see that I used the word "nice" many times. By the way, Cincy is a much nicer town than Cleveland...
Columbus is nice, but nothing special... when you live in mediocrity, that's what you expect... just a creature of your environment... which is not a bad thing...
an example... when I lived in Orange County, I couldn't believe a starter home was $400 large and a starter condo was $350 large... different market, different environment, different expectations...
there is nothing in Columbus that I can't find in Joe average America... sorry...

i noticed that you did say nice in your reply, but it seems like you dislike middle america and what it has to offer. i dont find anything wrong with living in columbus or in the midwest for that matter. whats wrong with average america. im sorry that cities like columbus, KC and indy are not like chicago, los angeles and new york. i use to live in germany, frankfurt to be exact, and people use to say the same thingabout frankfurt,that it is just an average german city with nice skyscrapers and lots of financial institutions. by the way, are you from ohio or columbus? you should give these cities a chance.

i noticed that you did say nice in your reply, but it seems like you dislike middle america and what it has to offer. i dont find anything wrong with living in columbus or in the midwest for that matter. whats wrong with average america. im sorry that cities like columbus, KC and indy are not like chicago, los angeles and new york. i use to live in germany, frankfurt to be exact, and people use to say the same thingabout frankfurt,that it is just an average german city with nice skyscrapers and lots of financial institutions. by the way, are you from ohio or columbus? you should give these cities a chance.

Your rant started by the lack of votes Columbus has recieved. I simpy gave you the reason. Just comparing Columbus to Cincinnati is more than enough to make my point...

Columbus does not have a...

Maisonette or Pigalls
Montgomery Inn or Houfbraushous
Skyline or Larossas

or a competing...

World Class Zoo, Aquarium, Art Museums...

or a ....

Union Terminal or Music Hall

or a...

World Class Symphony, Pops or Ballet

or a...

Kings Island, The Beach or Coney Island

or a....

Reds, Bengals, Master Series Tennis, TPC Golf Coarse

or

Festivals out the ying yang, from Taste of Cincinnati, the oldest taste of event in the US, Octoberfest, the largest in world outside of Munich. Riverfest, the largest annual fireworks display in the midwest and there are dozens and dozens more...

Riverboat Casinos and Turfway and Riverdowns Racetrack

or...

one of the best Airports in the world

or...

P & G, Krogers, Federated Department Stores, Chiquita Brands, Firth Third Bancorp, Toyota Manufacturing NA, Ashland Oil, GEAA, etc etc

or...

one of a kind neighborhoods like Over the Rhine, Mt Adams, Glendale, Indian Hills, Mairemont, Covington, Newport, Anderson, etc etc... the hills, oh the hills and don't foget The Ohio, Licking, Great Miami, Little Miami and Whitewater Rivers...

or

A huge city and county park system from Mt Airy Forest, the largest city park in the US to beautiful historic Eden Park, host to the Art Museum, Playhouse in the Park and scenic overlooks. To the many county parks around town.


is Columbus a nice city... yes... Do they have some of the above on a smaller scale.. yes...I have many friends and family that find Columbus perfect. Does it have anything above and beyond to offer over "Joe American" city...no

Definitiely Cincy. The most underrated midwest city.

i can compare columbus to cincinnati too and
i can make up my own list too...
columbus has-

the refectory, elevator brewery and draught haus
lindeys, l'antibes, liu pon xi
handke's, schmidts

the world class columbus zoo, franklin park conservatory
columbus art musuem, wexner center, COSI

the palace, ohio, southern and riffe theaters

the columbus symphony orchestra, opera columbus
ballet met columbus, cirque du soleil's "varekai"(the only midwest stop)

OSU, capital university, otterbein college, columbuscollege of art and design

columbus crew, blue jackets(currently on lockout), OSU football
the memorial tournament, nationwide arena, schottensteins center, ohio staduim

excellent festivals- columbus arts festival(one of the nations best), latino festival, jazz/rib fest, red white and boom, oktoberfest(a much smaller version), comfest, the doodah parade, via colori, first night columbus

a growing airport

home to nationwide insurance, borden, huntington banks, AEP, RVSI(parent company of DSW shoes, value city, filenes basement), major government agencies, cardinal health, battelle institute, the dispatch group(owns the columbus dispatch and ONN), the limited brands(and their now seperate offshoots i.e. abercrombie, limited too), the former bank one(before the merger with JP Morgan), motorist mutual insurance, grange, wendys, OCLC(an online library service provider), m/i homes, ross/abbott labs(makers of similac, ensure, glucerna, power zone bars), DSCC, consolidated stores(owners of big lots, KB toys), red roof inn, casto real estate, pizzutti companies, roxane labs, white castle, worthington industries

architecture such as miranova(tallest residential building in ohio), ohio justice center, le veque tower, columbus convention center

amazing neighborhoods and cities such as the short north, victorian village, german village, clintonville, OTE, king-lincoln, bexley, new albany, upper arlington, beechwold, soon to be revitalized franklinton and linden, merion village, harrison west, italian village, hungarian village, franklin park area, growing downtown area, grandview heights, marble cliff, olde worthington

schiller park, franklin park, soon to be revitalized riverfron park system, columbus metro parks, park of roses, the olentangy and scioto rivers(not great but nice)

improving transit(changes coming to COTA and possible light rail)

shopping such as easton, polaris fashion place, soon to be revitalized city center, short north, german village(home of the book loft), tuttle crossing, olde town westerville and worthington, revitalized eastland mall(soon to be home to a new type of kaufmans department store)

i suggest your re-evaluate your average joe remarks, i think you just need to be kind and give columbus a chance(i dont want to start a whole argument with you, just give columbus a chance). i know that cincinnati has its good points and im not putting cincinnati down, but columbus also has its good points.

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[img]

i can compare columbus to cincinnati too and
i can make up my own list too...
columbus has-

the refectory, elevator brewery and draught haus
lindeys, l'antibes, liu pon xi
handke's, schmidts

the world class columbus zoo, franklin park conservatory
columbus art musuem, wexner center, COSI

the palace, ohio, southern and riffe theaters

the columbus symphony orchestra, opera columbus
ballet met columbus, cirque du soleil's "varekai"(the only midwest stop)

OSU, capital university, otterbein college, columbuscollege of art and design

columbus crew, blue jackets(currently on lockout), OSU football
the memorial tournament, nationwide arena, schottensteins center, ohio staduim

excellent festivals- columbus arts festival(one of the nations best), latino festival, jazz/rib fest, red white and boom, oktoberfest(a much smaller version), comfest, the doodah parade, via colori, first night columbus

a growing airport

home to nationwide insurance, borden, huntington banks, AEP, RVSI(parent company of DSW shoes, value city, filenes basement), major government agencies, cardinal health, battelle institute, the dispatch group(owns the columbus dispatch and ONN), the limited brands(and their now seperate offshoots i.e. abercrombie, limited too), the former bank one(before the merger with JP Morgan), motorist mutual insurance, grange, wendys, OCLC(an online library service provider), m/i homes, ross/abbott labs(makers of similac, ensure, glucerna, power zone bars), DSCC, consolidated stores(owners of big lots, KB toys), red roof inn, casto real estate, pizzutti companies, roxane labs, white castle, worthington industries

architecture such as miranova(tallest residential building in ohio), ohio justice center, le veque tower, columbus convention center

amazing neighborhoods and cities such as the short north, victorian village, german village, clintonville, OTE, king-lincoln, bexley, new albany, upper arlington, beechwold, soon to be revitalized franklinton and linden, merion village, harrison west, italian village, hungarian village, franklin park area, growing downtown area, grandview heights, marble cliff, olde worthington

schiller park, franklin park, soon to be revitalized riverfron park system, columbus metro parks, park of roses, the olentangy and scioto rivers(not great but nice)

improving transit(changes coming to COTA and possible light rail)

shopping such as easton, polaris fashion place, soon to be revitalized city center, short north, german village(home of the book loft), tuttle crossing, olde town westerville and worthington, revitalized eastland mall(soon to be home to a new type of kaufmans department store)

i suggest your re-evaluate your average joe remarks, i think you just need to be kind and give columbus a chance(i dont want to start a whole argument with you, just give columbus a chance). i know that cincinnati has its good points and im not putting cincinnati down, but columbus also has its good points.
I'll give you COSI, the Memorial and the Franklin Park Conservetory... the rest you can find in KC and Indy...

i dont want to argue or anything. you can get the credit for making cincinnati sound so great. even though in your mind columbus, indy and kc may not be as great as cincinnati, that is your opinion and i may not be able to change it. i suggest you re-evaluate your opinions about these cities and give them a chance. and im sorry that columbus, indy and kc lack all the natural beauty that cincinnati has. i guess not all cities are as lucky as cincy. ;)

i dont want to argue or anything. you can get the credit for making cincinnati sound so great. even though in your mind columbus, indy and kc may not be as great as cincinnati, that is your opinion and i may not be able to change it. i suggest you re-evaluate your opinions about these cities and give them a chance. and im sorry that columbus, indy and kc lack all the natural beauty that cincinnati has. i guess not all cities are as lucky as cincy. ;)
again, the other cities are nice... I listed things not found in most cities....

you listed..

every town has nice restaurants, few have a 5 Star and Zagats top rated ones
the refectory, elevator brewery and draught haus
lindeys, l'antibes, liu pon xi
handke's, schmidts

again, the Cincinnati Zoo stomps Columbus as does the Art Museum, Taft etc etc... COSI is better than the Museum Center...
the world class columbus zoo, franklin park conservatory
columbus art musuem, wexner center, COSI

nothing touches Music Hall, though the Palace is beautiful in its own right..
the palace, ohio, southern and riffe theaters

Please...no comparison... and yes every city has these... but not at a world class level.... Cincinnati raises more than 10 million dollars annually with it's Fine Arts Fund, resulting in hundreds of performances, exhibits, and classical concerts. Cincinnati is home to the Tony Award winning Playhouse in the Park, the new Contemporary Arts Center, the world renowned Cincinnati Symphony (the 3rd largest in the country), world reknowned Pops and the Cincinnati Art Museum which was recently rated in the 2004 Zagat survey as The Best Art Museum in the Nation ( tying with the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York and the Art Institute of Chicago.)

That's the reason Cincinnati was voted as the "No. 5 Arts Destination in the United States" by American Style Magazine

the columbus symphony orchestra, opera columbus
ballet met columbus, cirque du soleil's "varekai"(the only midwest stop)

Cincinnati, Xavier, Miami, Hebrew Union College, Cincinnati State, NKU, Mt St Josephs, Thomas Moore.. it's about a wash... except there would be no Columbus without OSU...again all Joe Cities have these
OSU, capital university, otterbein college, columbuscollege of art and design

Again, see KC/Indy to a lesser level... and add US Bank Arena, Linder Tennis Center, Cincinnati Gardens, Cintas Center, Bearcats/Muskie Basketball, 5/3 Arena, Nippert Stadium etc etc...
columbus crew, blue jackets(currently on lockout), OSU football
the memorial tournament, nationwide arena, schottensteins center, ohio staduim

all cities have festivals....how many have the largest Octoberfest, Riverfest, The Tall Stacks Music, Arts & Heritage Festival, the largest Riverboat gathering in the World... The Cincinnati Flower Show is the only North American flower and garden show endorsed by the Royal Horticultural Society of Great Britain, producer of the world renowned Chelsea Flower Show...."The king of all flower shows"
- Better Homes and Gardens Magazine, March 2002
America's most acclaimed flower show featuring world class exhibits, social events, gardener's and plant markets, a lecture series and tours.....
again every joe city has festivals, a few have one of a kind one...

excellent festivals- columbus arts festival(one of the nations best), latino festival, jazz/rib fest, red white and boom, oktoberfest(a much smaller version), comfest, the doodah parade, via colori, first night columbus

no contest... can't even compet with KC/Indy
CVG ranked #1 Gateway in the U.S. and #10 in the world by the International Air Transport Association survey. Also ranked one of the world's top major airports by Official Airline Guide. CVG offers nearly 620 daily non-stop flights to 120 cities around the globe. Same day out-and-back service to 87 cities. International non-stop service to London, Frankfurt, Paris, Toronto, Rome and Amsterdam.

a growing airport

you have to kidding... if I listed the little companies, you computer would crash...

Cincinnati USA inTop 10 nationwide for
Fortune 500 companies per million


The Cincinnati USA Partnership has completed research on the number of Fortune 500 and Fortune 1000 companies per million residents to identify where the region stacks up against other metropolitan regions. The team compared the MSA population figures against the number of Fortune 500 and Fortune 1000 companies located within the metropolitan areas.

Cincinnati USA (equivalent to MSA: Cincinnati-Middletown, OH-KY-IN) ranks in the Top 10 in both comparisons:

#4 Fortune 1000 companies per million residents
#6 Fortune 500 companies per million residents
http://www.cincinnatiusa.org/images/logos/FortuneLogos_311x288.gif
*In addition, there are 370 FORTUNE 500 firms with operations in Cincinnati USA
Source: FORTUNE Magazine, 4/04

home to nationwide insurance, borden, huntington banks, AEP, RVSI(parent company of DSW shoes, value city, filenes basement), major government agencies, cardinal health, battelle institute, the dispatch group(owns the columbus dispatch and ONN), the limited brands(and their now seperate offshoots i.e. abercrombie, limited too), the former bank one(before the merger with JP Morgan), motorist mutual insurance, grange, wendys, OCLC(an online library service provider), m/i homes, ross/abbott labs(makers of similac, ensure, glucerna, power zone bars), DSCC, consolidated stores(owners of big lots, KB toys), red roof inn, casto real estate, pizzutti companies, roxane labs, white castle, worthington industries

if you think so, Cincy has tons of great architecture from Union Terminal to Music hall plus little Gems like ....There are only four major basilicas in the world, all in Rome. The Cathedral Basilica of the Assumption is one of only 35 minor basilicas in the United States. It has the largest stained glass window in the world.

Pope Pius XII elevated St. Mary's Cathedral to the rank of minor basilica on December 8, 1953 during a Solemn Pontifical High Mass celebrated by the Most Reverend William T. Mulloy, D.D.
architecture such as miranova(tallest residential building in ohio), ohio justice center, le veque tower, columbus convention center

any city USA... no comparison...
amazing neighborhoods and cities such as the short north, victorian village, german village, clintonville, OTE, king-lincoln, bexley, new albany, upper arlington, beechwold, soon to be revitalized franklinton and linden, merion village, harrison west, italian village, hungarian village, franklin park area, growing downtown area, grandview heights, marble cliff, olde worthington


you're kill'n me..One of the best secrets of the Cincinnati Parks is the Wolff Planetarium located at the Trailside Nature Center in Burnet Woods. This Spitz model A-1 planetarium was purchased in 1950, and is the oldest planetarium west of the Allegheny Mountains. The World Peace Bell...The World's Largest Swinging Bell, The World Peace Bell, was created by The Verdin Company, installed at The Millennium Monument site in Newport, Kentucky and swings everyday at noon.
National Underground Railroad Freedom Center
"I've never been so moved by an exhibit. If you really want to understand the concept of freedom, you have to experience this."
--Marvin from Lexington, KY

Located in Cincinnati, OH, the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center stands as the nation's newest monument to freedom. It brings to life the importance - and relevance - of struggles for freedom around the world and throughout history, including today. Made up of three buildings that symbolize the cornerstones of freedom - courage, cooperation, and perseverance - the Freedom Center's curving architecture reflects the winding river and the often-changing path to freedom. Why Cincinnati?
Now as in the past, Cincinnati's location on the Ohio River puts it at the crossroads of freedom's journey. In the 1800's the city served as a major hub of activity on the Underground Railroad and its banks offered refuge to thousands seeking hope and a new way of life. Today, as the home of the Freedom Center, it acts as a beacon of light once more.
Don't forget places like the The Harriet Beecher Stowe House, William Howard Taft National Historic Site


schiller park, franklin park, soon to be revitalized riverfron park system, columbus metro parks, park of roses, the olentangy and scioto rivers(not great but nice)

improving transit(changes coming to COTA and possible light rail)

Most Livable City
April 2004
Partners for Livable Communities

# 8 2003 Top Metros for New & Expanded Facilities
March 2004
Site Selection Magazine

#12 Best Metro for European Investment
#16 Best Metro for Business Expansion
July 2004
Expansion Management Magazine

Esquire Magazine's Top 10 "Cities that Rock"
April 2004
Esquire

Cincinnati USA - No. 5 U.S. arts destination
Summer 2004
American Style Magazine

Cincinnati Playhouse in the Park - 2004 Regional Theatre Tony Award
Summer 2004
Tony Award Productions

Cincinnati USA - No. 1 College Basketball City
August 2004
Sporting News


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The following Cincinnati USA attractions were ranked nationally in Zagat's Top 50 national attractions, Summer 2004

Newport on the Levee - No. 1 family friendly shopping centers and malls

Cincinnati Zoo and Botanical Garden No. 13

Newport Aquarium No. 25

Cincinnati Art Museum best art museum. (Tie with four museums including the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York and the Art Institute of Chicago)


again every city has shopping... neither has a Michigan Ave or Southcoast Mall...but who has Historic Findlay Market is Ohio’s oldest continuously operated public market and one of Cincinnati’s most cherished institutions. The Market is located on Elder Street between Elm and Race, just blocks from downtown in Over-the-Rhine, a dense historic neighborhood rich in 19th century architecture. OR Jungle Jim's might well be America's wackiest supermarket, a funhouse maze of a store north of Cincinnati that draws 50,000 shoppers a week from as far away as Indianapolis and Lexington, Ky. "The Jungle" is not all fun and frivolity; its other defining trait is a huge selection of specialty foods from 75 countries.
shopping such as easton, polaris fashion place, soon to be revitalized city center, short north, german village(home of the book loft), tuttle crossing, olde town westerville and worthington, revitalized eastland mall(soon to be home to a new type of kaufmans department store)

i suggest your re-evaluate your average joe remarks, i think you just need to be kind and give columbus a chance(i dont want to start a whole argument with you, just give columbus a chance). i know that cincinnati has its good points and im not putting cincinnati down, but columbus also has its good points.

I suggest you travel some more... Columbus IS nice but very AVERAGE... you listed nothing that every major city doesn't already have... sorry if you didn't know this...there is no problem with having civic pride, but try the Greyhound or Amtrak and get out a little more....

is Cincy the greatest city in the world??? No... but it does offer a unbelievable amount of unique things that even the people of Cincinnati do no appreciate...absolutly... I have a condo there and visited last weekend... went to the Reds game, Zoo, Kings Island....dinner at Chez Noras and a few trips to skyline and graeters... my 6 year old loves it there...great town....

i need to get out a little more? have you been to berlin, frankfurt, paris, milan, london, and barcelona??? i have been to those cities before and we have had family come over from germany and say how impressed they have been by columbus. we even took them to cincinnati, and they still said columbus was better, but that is there opinion. i have been to cincinnati a few times before, and it was nice, but not great. it cant even compare to berlin or milan. if i want the great american city, ill go to ny, la, or chicago. let me know where you have been. you obviously love cincinnati and i guess to you, no other city can compete with it. so i guess its to bad for pity poor columbus, indy, kc and all the other average joe cities in america. ;)

P.S.- saying there would be no columbus without OSU, well there would be no cincinnati without the ohio river

i need to get out a little more? have you been to berlin, frankfurt, paris, milan, london, and barcelona??? YES... plus Prague, St Petersburg Moscow, Budapest and Vienna... talk about beautiful...i have been to those cities before and we have had family come over from germany and say how impressed they have been by columbus. we even took them to cincinnati, and they still said columbus was better, but that is there opinion. i have been to cincinnati a few times before, and it was nice, but not great. it cant even compare to berlin or milan. if i want the great american city, ill go to ny, la, or chicago. let me know where you have been. you obviously love cincinnati and i guess to you, no other city can compete with it. so i guess its to bad for pity poor columbus, indy, kc and all the other average joe cities in america. ;) again, most people in Ohio or the midwest do not appreciate Cincy, because they do not know how to get around when they get there. Cincinnati is not built around the freeways like Columbus... it's charm is in it's neighborhoods and hideaways... Cincinnati attractions are hard to get to for Cincinnatians let alone out of towners...there is nothing better in Columbus than Cincy, if you think so, let me know... I've been in Columbus hundreds of times and have yet to be impressed. I have family in Worthington, Upper Arlington and Dublin. Friends went to OSU and Denison... sorry... Columbus is boooooring...

P.S.- saying there would be no columbus without OSU, well there would be no cincinnati without the ohio river this is true...


and don't take the Joe America thing so poorly... that's what America is all about.... I've been blessed to have traveled the world and realize that the US has a very few gems... it's nice to see someone like you so pationate about their home... most Americans are the complete oposite...

there are a few gem Cities in the US and I consider Cincinnati one of them... included on this list would be...
Los Angelas
Chicago
Miami
Washington DC
Pittsburg
Boston
Philidelphia
St Louis
New Orleans
San Francisco
with Toronto and Montreal rounding out NA...

all these places have unique things that make them what they are... there are many other NICE CITIES in the US... with the same Sports, Shops, Museums, parks etc etc... some of the nicer like the Twin Cities, Portland, Seattle, Atlanta and Dallas... but most like Columbus are interchangable...

rock on Columbus, rock on...

P.S.- saying there would be no columbus without OSU, well there would be no cincinnati without the ohio riverThere would be no Ohio for that matter.

I'm sorry, but i have to side with the Hometown.

Columbus just needs a little more funk.

Whoa I just got a major Cincinnati overload. You should write a city guide, yo.

i suppose you are right. i am proud of columbus, and to me, it is the best city in ohio. i know people who have been to cincinnati and have not been impressed. they have told me its just a city with lots of hills and thats all. but that is there opinion. i know there are people out there who find columbus boring and thats okay. columbus and lots of other cities do not exist to please everyone. if you think that columbus is boring(which it is not) thats okay. you are entitled to your own opinion, but i hope that you would consider changing your mind in the future. those other cities that you mentioned all have a special feature like mountains, major rivers, a lake, or they are either a financial, governement, fashion, or industrial capital. cities like columbus, indy and kc are not major capitals of fashion, tourism, etc... nor do they have major lakes, rivers, mountains, etc... but to me columbus is the best!!!

P.S.- i saw that you have been to eastern europe. was it as nice as western europe is now? my family and i used to live in west germany, wiesbaden to be exact, and my family and i have been to the former east germany, and my parents have been to some parts of eastern europe, but none of us have been back since. how has it changed and is it worth a visit? thanks ;)

P.S.- i saw that you have been to eastern europe. was it as nice as western europe is now? my family and i used to live in west germany, wiesbaden to be exact, and my family and i have been to the former east germany, and my parents have been to some parts of eastern europe, but none of us have been back since. how has it changed and is it worth a visit? thanks ;)
I first went to eastern Europe in 1988. My High School was the 1st foriegn exchange program with the Soviet Union starting I think in 1972. Eastern europe had zero western influence in 88... was stunningly beautiful and had the added 1950s timewarp feel. When I returned in 97, it was like going to Spain of France... totally MTV...

Where I really want to visit is China. I've been to most of Asia but not inland China. My father spent 6 weeks there last year and said the progress and energy was amazing...

WELL LOUISVILLE IS BETTER THAN BOTH..... J/K lol... I find Columbus as a great city that remindes me alot of mine, but then Cincinnati just takes your breath away almost when you are driving up from Kentucky and then after that you find out all it has to offer, which is an amazing list if you ask me. You can go downtown and see amazing archetecture, then if you feel like shopping theres Saks. Then you can head to the museums and visit the hills, Newport for the aquarium... I mean the list could go on and on. Cincinnati is a very unique and lucky city, and is on my list as a future home.

i suppose you are right. i am proud of columbus, and to me, it is the best city in ohio. i know people who have been to cincinnati and have not been impressed. they have told me its just a city with lots of hills and thats all. but that is there opinion. i know there are people out there who find columbus boring and thats okay. columbus and lots of other cities do not exist to please everyone. if you think that columbus is boring(which it is not) thats okay. you are entitled to your own opinion, but i hope that you would consider changing your mind in the future. those other cities that you mentioned all have a special feature like mountains, major rivers, a lake, or they are either a financial, governement, fashion, or industrial capital. cities like columbus, indy and kc are not major capitals of fashion, tourism, etc... nor do they have major lakes, rivers, mountains, etc... but to me columbus is the best!!!

P.S.- i saw that you have been to eastern europe. was it as nice as western europe is now? my family and i used to live in west germany, wiesbaden to be exact, and my family and i have been to the former east germany, and my parents have been to some parts of eastern europe, but none of us have been back since. how has it changed and is it worth a visit? thanks ;)

Don't worry man I got your back and so does about 1.5 million other Columbus metro residents. Its the only city in which I lived in Ohio and the ONLY city I would live in. Right now I live in Ft. Lauderdale in the downtown (which is dead) and two miles from the beach. I'd be back in Columbus if it wasn't for my job. Take a look at how many people are moving to Columbus. How many people have moved into Cincy proper or Cleveland proper?

All three cities kick ass but for years Columbus was just there in the middle while Cincinnati and Cleveland grew. Now if you look at who's growing the most its not Cincinnati or Cleveland. Cleveland and Cincinnati will always be the great cities they are rich in history with beuatiful neighborhoods, awesome skylines and an almost endless list of things to do.

Columbus however has been different and always will be. Columbus was never an industrial city like Cleveland or Cincinnati. Columbus has never been choked by a ring of suburbs like the other two cities. Columbus suffered people fleeing the inner city to the suburbs just as Cincinnati and Cleveland has, however Columbus said ok if the suburbs are gonna steal our tax base lets go to the suburbs and thats what Columbus did. The city annexed unincorporated land and competed with the suburbs who were developing land. (yes it's sprawl) but who says the suburbs get all the glory of development and gaining more tax base.

I hate sprawl but Columbus was innovative enough to realize the suburbs were going to gain residential and commercial business that was fleeing the central city so they said two can play this game. If Cleveland and Cincinnati had done what Columbus has done one of the two would be the largest city in Ohio. (population wise)

This goes back to the age of Cleveland and Cincinnati and how prosperous they were long before Columbus and Columbus was surrounded by undeveloped land unlike Cleveland and Cincy who were already surrounded by established (and beuatiful) suburbs.

ScraperDude Columbus is not growing faster than Cincinnati. Columbus has gained 5.2k jobs since 2000 while Cincinnati has gained 10k. You can't have growth if you don't have jobs.

http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/outside.jsp?survey=sm

ScraperDude Columbus is not growing faster than Cincinnati. Columbus has gained 5.2k jobs since 2000 while Cincinnati has gained 10k. You can't have growth if you don't have jobs.

http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/outside.jsp?survey=sm
DUH!

Job growth is a good thing but take a look at this:

Columbus population in 2000: 711,470
Columbus population in 2003: 728,432 Gain: 16,962

Cincinnati population in 2000: 331,285
Cincinnati population in 2003: 317,361 Loss: 13,924

Source: www.cencus.gov

Where the growth for Cincinnati?

Furthermore lets look at Cleveland:

Cleveland population in 2000: 478,403
Cleveland population in 2003: 461,324 Loss: 17,079

Columbus has gained over 16K in three years pop. 728,432
Cincinnati has lost over 13K in three years pop. 317,361
Cleveland has lost over 17K in three years pop. 461,324

I'm not trying to turn this into a pissing contest but look at the numbers.
Which one is growing?

so Columbus is smart because they swallowed farm land in the 70s and 80s?? THe majority of Cincinnatis suburbs have incorporated and established over 125 years... maybe Cincy should have looked for WMDs and hostily taken over the out lying cities...

That's a funny comparison. Obviously Cleveland and Cincinnati has been built out for 50+ years. So basicly they have room to grow in areas in the metro that's not built out, also Cleveland and Cincinnati is landlocked. Cleveland with the lake and Cincinnati with the state of Kentucky.

Cincinnati's suburbs are currently and have been swallowing up farmland. As are most midwestern metros. I think Columbus saw their tax base fleeing to the suburbs and took charge and didnt let the suburbs totally absorb it. When a city loses tax payers to the suburbs the suburbs prosper and the city begins to fail slowly. Look at what happened to Detroit and look how the suburbs grew.

As for Cincy using WMD to incorporate land. Good idea then the city's population wouldn't keep decreasing year after year.

Columbus didn't take over out lying cities. The outlying cities are still independant cities and not included in Columbus population figures or tax base. Columbus annexed land before the suburbs ate it up. Fuck the suburbs why do they get to be so greedy and eat up land and tax revenue?

what Cincy suburb has incorporated land besides Mason in the last 50 years?? I know Sharonville and Milford grabbed a couple of acres, but thats it... I could be wrong...

Read this articles when you get a chance....

http://www.daytondailynews.com/project/content/project/grow/1028growthmain.html
http://www.landalliance.org/
http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/data/2001/07/01/html/ft_20010701.3.html

Read this articles when you get a chance....

http://www.daytondailynews.com/project/content/project/grow/1028growthmain.html
http://www.landalliance.org/
http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/data/2001/07/01/html/ft_20010701.3.html
Great articles .... from Dayton.. and I've read the NG article... still don't understand what this has to do with Cincinnati and Columbus... There are no cities incorporating any of the townships in butler county and as I said Mason has taken a little out of warren... still do not see suburbs in cincy incorporating farm land... everything inside the beltway was established years ago... its the reason you see so little on 75, 74 and 71 inside the loop.

Those articles mention Cincinnati suburbs as well.
The whole point is Columbus annexed land before the suburbs did and also is gaining population while Cincinnati is losing population.

You say that Cincinnati has gained 10K jobs since 2000 and Columbus only 5.2K
Columbus has gained almost 17K in population since 2000 and Cincinnati has lost almost 13K since 2000.
So whats the gain for Cincinnati? Gaining jobs is great but losing population isn't.

Those articles mention Cincinnati suburbs as well.
The whole point is Columbus annexed land before the suburbs did and also is gaining population while Cincinnati is losing population.

You say that Cincinnati has gained 10K jobs since 2000 and Columbus only 5.2K
Columbus has gained almost 17K in population since 2000 and Cincinnati has lost almost 13K since 2000.
So whats the gain for Cincinnati? Gaining jobs is great but losing population isn't.Why is this even an argument? Columbus is getting TROUNCED.

It's no arguement Columbus is bigger and is growing Cincinnati is shrinking in population and has nowhere to go because of a river and suburbs.
Look at the numbers Columbus over 700,000 and gaining.
Cincinnati under 400,000 and declining. though I think some cincy suburbs are gaining in population.

Columbus is getting TROUNCED?
What does that word mean never heard of it.

1. To thrash; beat.
2. To defeat decisively.


And you know who said bigger is always better?

haha how does a city with a constant declining population defeat a city with constant center city growth and revitilization and growing population?

Bigger is better? Must be if people are moving TO Columbus and AWAY from Cincinnati.

Look Cincinnati has some awesome landscape a huge river great architecture and some of the coolest neighborhoods. It doesnt look like thats enough if people are constantly leaving and there isn't a gain.

Columbus in the 80's sucked ass and early 90's even but thats all been changing and people see that and are moving there... hmm maybe even some Cincinnati residents.

First off the urban core goes WAY beyond the city limits. And it's growing. If columbus had kept it's old city limits it would be losing population also. It's all estimates anyway. The Census my tell another story in 5 more years.

I totally agree with you on that. I'm not trying to beat Cincy down it just sucks that its losing population. What is being done to curb this?

I can tell you if Columbus kept its old city limits it would be a shitdump and the suburbs would have all the jobs.

Let me ask you this how would you feel if Cincy and Hamilton merged like Louisville-Jefferson, Jacksonville-Duval and I think Indy-Marion?

It would never happen, because of too many cities inside Hamilton county. That's too many mayors to deal with. It will only benefit the city of Cincinnati and every other place would get screwed inside the County.

I would like see a multi-county merger of Hamilton, Butler, Clermont and Warren County for a population of 1.6 million. Then light rail would have an easier time to get passed and less tax burden for all of us. That would be sweet.

So basically its a power thing that local mayors don't want to give up?
See how greedy the suburbs are.

Louisville had the issues of 86 cities so they just gave the mayors local jurisdiction and a they are now know as neighborhoods keeping respective boundries but pretty much make their own decisions. I think metro government is a great way to unite a metro and cut costs on city services by integrating into one system.

I think Louisville did it the same reason why we had the 2 stadiums built. We wanted to stay a major league city. Now Louisville may have done it to make Louisville seem like an even more major city instead of a 200k, nobody hear about town.

Eh, I dont think population or scope really had anything to do with it, just an added bonus in the aftermath. It was to even out costs, and work together to get things done and wow look, it worked.

About a year ago--I went to a hosting which the Toledo Area Chamber of Commerce invited the a la' Louisville folks to talk about their experience and case study of merging Jefferson County and Louisville. Right now Toledo and Lucas County is exploring UNI-gov and merging all county and city departments to lower expenditure costs and expand regionalism (economics). Plus Toledo controls majority of the water throughout NW Ohio and parts of SE Michigan--which is a vital role in the UNI-gov concept. This isn't going to happen over night--it will take time just like Louisville, Indianapolis, and Nashville which took them years to merge their government. If Toledo-Lucas County merge--population would go from 310,000 to 460,000.

:whisper:

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Glendale (pop: 2,188) is one of Cincinnati's oldest and most beautiful suburbs. The first of the Romantic suburbs on the 1850's (yes, even older than Riverside, Illinois) with the curvilinear street layout following the genteel hills, Glendale developed along a rail line connecting it to downtown Cincinnati. The city is marked by a lovely town square with quaint shops and restaurants along with gorgeous 19th-century mansions and pocket parks. It, along with Oakwood, Shaker Heights, and Mariemont, is one of Ohio's best Romantic suburbs (well, okay, the first).
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Mariemont (pop: 3,408) is an unique experience. The inner-ring subub about 10 miles east of Cincinnati is themed after an English village. With central nodes of government, commercial, and a lookout, Marimeont houses a movie theater, hotels, outdoor cafes, Graeter's Ice Cream, and various styles of English housing. With churches, little stone cabins, a central fountain and tree-lined streets, Mariemont is a wonderful place to call home.
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this is the kind of thread i can identify with. I knew nothing about Ohio until about 3 years ago when i started going to school there. Its a small school in between Dayton, Cincinnati, and Columbus. So i get to see a lot of all three cities. My girlfriend lives in Toledo, so i get to see that all the time too (just last weekend in fact).

I have grown to like many things about Ohio, and being full of many nice mid-sized cities, i like them too. Cincinnati is in my opinion the best overall city and area in ohio. Its climate is a lot milder, the area is beautiful and hilly. The city's downtown area is dense and has a lot going on, and it just looks great along the river.

I've been to Columbus plenty of times, and i have never ever seen anything that has impressed me at all. It appears run down and worn out.

Dayton is a decent city, but just doesnt have much to offer.

I've never been to Cleveland, but its size suggests that it is comparable to Cincinnati, although i don't like the weather or standard of living that far north. The area up there just seems harsher, darker, rustier, and poorer.

Toledo has a lot of great people, and some bright spots including the Mudhens, Cosi, and other things, but all in all, it can't compare to the rest of Ohio. Its too close to Michigan really.

who keeps bringing up these old threads and who would vote for toledo?

yo, do you want to rip off all of urbanohio's material? least you could do is provide a link

who would vote for toledo?


You are looking at him.

yo, do you want to rip off all of urbanohio's material? least you could do is provide a link
sour people... I've provided a link many times as have others... just check the properties for god sakes... it's almost 2006...

I think by 2006, that we all know what urban ohio is, and if we wanted our computers to have a meltdown we would go there and look at 45 THOUSAND pictures of Cincinnati .. the same ones that we see in every thread you post in, along with the excerpt you copy and paste telling 24894 awesome factoids about Cincinnati.

from the
http://news.enquirer.com/graphics/logos/enq_printlogo.gif...


Thursday, June 23, 2005
'The Pops is putting Cincinnati on the map'

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• Kunzel to lead rare Pops tour of China


With 80 Cincinnati Pops releases on the Telarc label - 54 of which have appeared on the Billboard chart as best-selling albums - the Cincinnati Pops has a record unmatched by any orchestra in the world.

It's a unique success story, says Bob Woods, president and CEO of Telarc International Corp., a Cleveland-based record company. At a time when virtually no American orchestras have recording contracts, the Pops continues to make two albums per year.

"As far as orchestral pops are concerned, pretty much all of the competition has gone away," says Woods. "The Cincinnati Pops catalog continues to grow, and we are varying the type of things we do. ... Both the CSO and (Cincinnati Pops) recordings are very important to us, commercially viable, and we are most proud of our very long and successful relationship."

Together with the Cincinnati Symphony, the Pops is the most widely played American orchestra in the United States on the air, says Robin Gehl, vice president of programming at WGUC-FM radio (90.9).

"Anybody who knows good recordings, especially of Americana, turn to those great recordings of the Cincinnati Pops," she says. "They've done clever programming and it's quality material, so it gets played."

An average of 3 million people have viewed each of the Pops' PBS broadcasts, says Susan Howarth, president and CEO of WCET-TV (Channel 48). Another televised show, "Spring Fling," will be taped next spring for fall 2006 broadcast, she says.

"The Pops is putting Cincinnati on the map," she says.

Janelle Gelfand

Thursday, June 23, 2005
Kunzel to lead rare Pops tour of China
Orchestra off to Asia in October

By Janelle Gelfand
Enquirer staff writer



Chinese fans will hear music from "Star Wars," "Lord of the Rings" and "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" when the Cincinnati Pops becomes the first U.S. pops orchestra to tour China in October.

Pops conductor Erich Kunzel, 70, will lead the orchestra on a five-concert tour to Beijing, Shanghai and Singapore Oct. 21-27 as part of his 40th anniversary season with the Cincinnati Symphony and Pops orchestras.

"It's a first," Kunzel said as he rehearsed the Pops for a Concert on the Green Wednesday evening in Forest Park. "Our Telarc recordings have preceded us, so that's why the fame. We are very popular (in China), and it's just tremendous prestige for us."

Reds owner Carl H. Lindner and his wife, Edyth, will pay tour costs that are not covered by fees received from performances. The Lindners, longtime and devoted Pops fans, have funded four of Kunzel's seven national broadcasts of Pops concerts on PBS.

"Edyth and I have thought that Erich Kunzel and the Pops are tops in our country," Lindner said Wednesday. "We have long enjoyed being a part of them, and we particularly enjoy sharing them with others."

Although costs were undisclosed, moving 120 musicians, stage crew and staff members and 18,000 pounds of cargo around internationally "is a very expensive proposition," Steven Monder, president, said. The presenter will cover the tour expenses, with help from the Lindners' gift and concert fees, he said.

Vocalist Daniel Narducci, a frequent Pops guest artist, will be the tour soloist.

The historic Chinese dates come at the invitation of Armstrong International Corporate Identity Co. Ltd., an advertising firm in China. The Singapore concerts will be presented by Esplanade - Theatres on the Bay, Singapore's national performing arts complex.

The tour will begin Oct. 21 and 22 with two concerts in Beijing's Great Hall of the People, home to China's legislature at Tiananmen Square. They'll perform two different programs in the 6,000-seat Main Hall.

"They wanted us in the bigger hall, because they expect huge crowds," Kunzel says.

Oct. 24, the Pops will perform a single show at Shanghai's Grand Stage, an 8,000-seat, stadium-style venue, as part of the China Shanghai International Arts Festival.

The tour will wind up Oct. 26 and 27 with two performances in the 1,600-seat Concert Hall in Singapore's Esplanade - Theatres on the Bay, a modern complex on the waterfront of Marina Bay.

Tours such as this and the Pops' three tours to Asia in the '90s help to sell the orchestra's 80 Telarc CDs - now at 9.4 million sold worldwide. In China, the Pops draws a lot of attention, Bob Woods, Telarc president and CEO, said. Big sellers in China include "The Great Fantasy Adventure Album," The Big Picture" and "Round-Up."

"The China market has always been a big fan of the (Cincinnati Pops), especially Southern China, even though that has mainly been through the proliferation of pirated recordings," Woods said in an e-mail.

Chinese presenters specifically asked for film music, said Kunzel, who set the stage for this trip four years ago when he conducted China's first pops concert in Beijing, with the China National Symphony Orchestra.

He is planning to program portions of a new "Star Wars" medley with music from all six "Star Wars" films, including "Revenge of the Sith." He'll also include cowboy tunes, a hit with the Chinese, he says.

Although the Cincinnati Pops will be the first pops orchestra to perform in China, the first symphony orchestra to go there was the Philadelphia Orchestra in 1973 at the invitation of the Chinese government. There was a large break until another orchestra, the Boston Symphony, visited in 1997. Since then, the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, New York Philharmonic, National Symphony Orchestra and Cleveland Orchestra have gone.

The appetite for Western classical music is insatiable in China, said Kurt Sassmannshaus, professor of violin at the University of Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music, who has taken his Starling Chamber Orchestra to China twice.

"The audience was always filled with young families with children," he said. "The conservatories are overflowing with prodigious talents, and the concert market is increasing rapidly."

In a country of 1.26 billion people, music is still a regular part of school curriculum. More than 38 million Chinese children study piano, said an article in Symphony, a magazine of the American Symphony Orchestra League.

Lately, China is undergoing a construction boom of spectacular concert halls, including the $95 million Shanghai Oriental Arts Center and Beijing's $400 million Grand National Theater, dubbed "the Egg," near Tiananmen Square.

Audiences are curious about American culture and have seen a great number of American movies, said Chinese-born conductor Xian Zhang, 31, a CCM graduate and former faculty member. Now assistant conductor of the New York Philharmonic, Zhang is in town for three performances of Cincinnati Opera's "La Boheme," two last week and another Saturday.

Chinese audiences crave A-list performers. In October, Zhang conducted the Eroica Trio and the China Philharmonic in Beethoven's "Triple Concerto" for the Beijing Music Festival.

"The hunger for foreign culture, especially American, is very high there," she said. "And people do know about the Cincinnati Pops."

She knows from firsthand experience. The first album she ever bought, 20 years ago, was a Cincinnati Pops album of Strauss waltzes.

Pretty hairy thread.

Pretty hairy thread.
:)

the true greatness of a city is measured by the number of recordings of its pops orchestra

Cleveland has great culture/arts and all of the qualities of much bigger cities including great ethnic neighborhoods. Cleveland also has the largest and tallest skyline in Ohio.
Cincinnati has beautiful neighborhoods and is often referred to as the San Francisco of the midwest due to its beautiful housing and neighborhoods.

This contest should only be between Cleveland and Cincinnati.

The metro areas of Cleveland and Cincinnati are both larger than Columbus' metro. Columbus proper only has the largest pop. because the city is the size of a county. It's the Jacksonville effect, Jacksonville may technically be the largest city in the state but it can't hold a candle to Miami, Tampa, Orlando or Fort Lauderdale.
City proper population means nothing.

Cincy and Cleveland also feel much more urban than Columbus.

what make cleveland and cincy more urban that columbus? have you had a chance to visit columbus? if not, dont bash columbus until you have had a chance to visit our city and experience what we have to offer. there are people who know that columbus does not have alot of what cleveland and cincy have, and we are okay with that. we are not trying to be like those cities. columbus is its own city with its own identity and quite a few people in columbus are sick of being compared to cleveland and cincy.

its cool that you think that columbus is not as good as cleveland and cincy, and that this contest should only be between cleveland and cincy, since columbus and toledo are not important cities and therefor dont seem to deserve as much attention as cleveland and cincy. besides, columbus and toledo(along with dayton, youngstown, akron, etc...)are becoming great cities in their own right, with their own flavor and attractions that will suit some but not all people. these cities have the desire to prosper and to do new and exciting things.

I've been to columbus many times, so i guess that means i'm qualified to give my opinion of it. Columbus is a dump. If it werent for OSU and the fact that it is the capitol of Ohio, it wouldn't have anything going for it at all. Possibly the one redeeming quality is the mall at Easton...

what makes columbus a dump? we are worse than cleveland or cincy????

if it were not for lake erie and the cuyahoga river, cleveland would be nothing and if it were not for the ohio river, cincinnati would be nothing(just something to keep in mind) ;)

i respect your(and everyone elses) opinion and your(and everyone elses) opinion is all your own. i and other people know that columbus will not suit everyones taste, and thats okay. if columbus and other ohio cities like toledo, dayton, etc... dont suit your taste, thats cool ;) america is a free country and your and others are entitled to your opinion. but, i hope that you may possibly consider changing your mind.

Calling EASTON a redeeming quality in Columbus says something about someones personal preference so I really wouldnt take it too personal.

old town columbus is unbelievably amazing and urban, its all that annexed crap and beyond which gives cbus a bad reputation

Personally, I think that Cincinnati looks more picturesque than Cleveland and Columbus, in my opinion. I'm sure Cleveland has it's spots as well as Columbus, but I can compare Columbus to Pittsburgh and even SF because it's got hills!!! And the houses and parks looks good. One thing is what do you use you r Unon Station for??? I wish the city would use it for trains rather than just a museum. But that's the cost of being another American city: more empasis on the car rather than trying to fix the railroad infrastructure.

I also understand that Cincinnati was supposed to have a subway system, only for it to be cancelled due to the rumors of Communism. It would've been a good addition for the city to have a subway system serving the whole city. It's a shame it never happened.

The subway was cancelled because of the great depression.

i try not to take it personally, but i just love columbus so much and i hate it when i always hear people bashing it. but you are right schristopher, about not taking their opinion to personally. i enjoy easton, but i know that easton is not columbus' only redeeming quality.