Just a rant...

I have seen some recent pics of the Torch along with Yonge and Dundas, not to mention the inactivity at Metropolis.

It appears Toronto will see yet another tax increase this year and for the next 10 years. I guess they figure land owners can afford it.

Toronto is lagging on attracting new jobs yet it's rapidly raising property taxes on business. It makes you wonder if the elected leaders have ever had a simple Economics class, unless they figure business owners can afford it too.

It's increasing development fees by 3 times and risks killing the Golden Goose which has employed thousands and pumped billions of dollars worth of investment into the city. Maybe they rather provide subsidized housing to everyone than to promote a healthy business environment, to attract jobs, so people will be able to stand on their own too feet.

As MikeinTo will tell you, the development industry is treated like shit by the public, city, and planning department. There are even those that believe developers can make too much money off a development. (FoNTRA and even some city councilors)

The city planning department is too busy placing arbitrary heights on every new development, than to care about little things such the exterior of the building, how it meets the street, and the overall development in the context of its surroundings. City planning is even forbidden to consider "architectural excellence" when considering a development and instead rebuttals by saying "every development should strive for architectural excellence." Well then where the fuck was this guy when they we're planning for the torch? (A prize to whoever can tell me where those quotes can be found.)

It wants to attract new residents to better compete with the suburbs but it constantly denies the public's voice believing they know better. Seriously, who cares if a developer provides indoor amenity space or not? Let people decide for themselves in the pre-sales process if they would like excessive, expensive, amenity space which is rarely used.

For a city tiring to promote transit usage, you'd think they would discourage high parking ratios rather than forcing new businesses to provide 3 or 4 spaces when applying for a fucking renovation of a 3-storey Danforth-like structure on Yonge St. that just so happens to add another hundred or so square feet. At least we have our saint, Kyle Rae, constantly looking out for this type of bullshit.

And finally... the 1% cost of construction being dedicated to so-called "public-art." Is it really nessesary for every new building to have some expensive bullshit obstructing pedestrian flow? A few statues and waterfountains here and there would be great, but that's never what gets planned; how many new statues and waterfountains do you see around town? Instead millions of dollars are wasted this way on bullshit like that rusty thing outside Pantages or that cheap looking stairway attached to exposed concrete, with the flat sheet-metal women(?), on Bay just south of Bloor. (I guess Seven'11 was not that costly to build... but that was obvious from the finished product.) It's like killing two birds with one stone: fucking up developers' margins and wasting money while forgoing a better option. Why not give a hoot for Toronto taxpayers and take this 1% out of every new development and apply it towards something such as transit. What a concept! But Toronto would rather raise taxes and fares rather than to do something innovative, as they have demonstrated many times in the past. Maybe that's how politicians keep getting elected, keep blaming the conservatives for the city’s financial woes, even years after they are no longer in power.

Here's my 2 cents... The only way Toronto can heal is if the region is willing to work together to bring hope back to the city. How can Toronto compete with the likes of York Region & the rest of the GTA, which has cheap sprawly land, lower budget burdens (TTC, social services, welfare etc.), & can live off development levies? Well, of course Toronto could shift the tax burden from business to residential, but this shift would cause a dramatic flight of affluent citizens to the suburbs, who already pay the price of living in the city with high tag prices & the high taxes that come with it. With a dissproportionately high percentage of low income earners (we all know Toronto has the most social housing units in the GTA... York Region hardly has any ~ ), this shift would seriously affect the social fabric of the city. Seeing how money earmarked for TTC is wasted on VIVa shocks the core out of me.... :sleepy:

The city has been quite pro-development from how I see it, & if the city isn't the OMB always took care of that. Seriously, 1% shouldn't have a profound effect on the developer's profits, though public art should be changed to public benefit.... anything from new benches, waterfalls, courtyards, fixing potholes to gardens are good. I'm sure Toronto's planning restrictions are not tough ..( though having height restrictions in this city makes no sense at all)... & Toronto's high demand will always draw in developers. If Vancouver's condo industry can survive quite well with its plan, then I'm sure Toronto can too.

However, we should end the developer's free ride in turning the GTA's greenfields into low density housing that ends up costing the GTA billions of dollars in paying for the infrastructure to keep the suburbs "bearable." Honestly, how many more highways can the province & GTA afford to build & maintain?

Good points, Can't argue with any of them except this.

"Well, of course Toronto could shift the tax burden from business to residential, but this shift would cause a dramatic flight of affluent citizens to the suburbs."

Toronto has the lowest residential taxes in the region, and this is not a normal American styled city where people just pack up and leave for the suburbs. However if their career relocates to Vaughan, Mississauga or beyond, my reasoning is this will be a larger incentive for them to relocate, even with the higher residential taxes in the suburbs.

Plus the lower business taxes in the suburbs could also translate into higher salaries and/or more jobs which would attract even more people. Toronto does not seem to understand this concept.

I doubt lower business taxes will lead to higher salaries, for that defeats the purpose of businesses saving money by moving to the suburbs.

Toronto undoubtedly has some of the highest housing prices in the GTA, (maybe after Oakville(?) ) & this in turn means some of the highest valuations on average in the GTA. This would mean that a lower tax rate still means high residential taxes when compared with the rest of the region.

Toronto also doesn't have swanky new suburban lots to attract newcomers, the condo market is saturated, so its lower tax burden can serve as an incentive for people to stay in Toronto.

Last time I checked, you can still buy a much new bigger home in Richmond Hill for the same price as a smaller, older one in Bayview & Finch. Even if I'm paying a little more taxes in Richmond Hill, I'm paying for a much bigger place!

You're right, we need to be concerned about Toronto's future, & the GTA has to start thinking about supporting Toronto, for it is the core of the GTA & it is the reason why the region is so prosperous.

I doubt lower business taxes will lead to higher salaries, for that defeats the purpose of businesses saving money by moving to the suburbs.

Nope. By cutting costs, it gives a company more residual income which opens up doors for the company. One of them could be offering higher salaries which can woo more talented and experienced people to the job, which will eventually lead to higher profits or another opportunity could give raises to those faithful employees who deserve it. Another opportunity could be to hire more workers and expand operations. It could be anything really, but offering higher salaries does NOT defeat the purpose of cutting fixed overhead!


Toronto undoubtedly has some of the highest housing prices in the GTA, (maybe after Oakville(?) ) & this in turn means some of the highest valuations on average in the GTA. This would mean that a lower tax rate still means high residential taxes when compared with the rest of the region.

This seems to be a common misconception about the workings of property taxes. When housing prices increase, the tax multiplier decreases. In the end, the city does not gain or lose any extra revenue nor does the owner pay any extra taxes unless his property appreciated faster than other areas of the city.

Toronto also doesn't have swanky new suburban lots to attract newcomers, the condo market is saturated, so its lower tax burden can serve as an incentive for people to stay in Toronto.

Saturation of the condo market is great news for newcomers as it means lower rents and depressed prices. It's also a good thing Toronto has limited land to prevent residential suburban lot styled developments. They cost the city far more than what is collected in taxes. They also tend to be less transit-friendly than other types of housing, which will add further pressure to the road grid.

"Last time I checked, you can still buy a much new bigger home in Richmond Hill for the same price as a smaller, older one in Bayview & Finch. Even if I'm paying a little more taxes in Richmond Hill, I'm paying for a much bigger place!"

Location is the main determent in housing prices followed by other factors such as size. All things being equal, the farther away you move from desirable areas, the lower the cost per sq footage.

You're right, we need to be concerned about Toronto's future, & the GTA has to start thinking about supporting Toronto, for it is the core of the GTA & it is the reason why the region is so prosperous.

Actually I could care less now about the future of Toronto. It's a great city put my head can only bang against the wall so much before you give up. I'll only consider moving back to Toronto and start caring again if the employment situation improves. I can make twice as much here as doing the exact same work in Toronto, and I'm not the only one. So now do you understand why offering higher salaries are not a waste at all?

err... It's a great city but my head can only bang against the wall so many times before you're forced to give up.

First, what industry are you in? Certainly, some of my friends, especially in the medical, financial & education fields, have relocated to the states because of higher salaries & better career prospects. I will also be relocating soon south of the border once I complete my designation. Some industries are doing quite well in Toronto, though salaries in relative terms are still 20%+ lower than the US.

I also have some friends who are staying put in Toronto because they have a stable job & they feel that living in this city is in their best interests.

Property tax decreases won't cut it alone to encourage employers to drum up salaries. This has to be done via lower povincial&federal income/corporate taxes, or less burden on businesses to pay for benefits/EI/pension etc. Of course, there is competitiveness/productivity issues & Canadian values to consider. Though Canada's taxes are relatively balanced in international standards, they do appear to be too high when compared to the almighty United States. Property values in Toronto are not high compared to major US cities, so it does have an edge there.

I must have been way over my head when I was describing the residential tax situation. Yes, you're right that high valuations doesn't necessarily mean high taxes. Must have forgot after paying so many years of rent. :) Anyways, the areas with the most affluent Torontonians (ie. downtown, North York, Rosedale, etc.) have the highest percentage increase in valuations. This in turn means that they pay higher taxes than the average Toronto household (Scarborough would be one of the main benefactors of this situation)... Anyways, an increase in tax rate & increase in valuations (that is higher than city average) would mean a dramatic increase of property tax that would be hard to swallow for affluent TOians, especially when services/public facilities are starting to look run down, public schools are turning into a mess, etc... etc...(Of course with the media overbloating the problem)... Suddenly that new subdivision in Oakville /Thornhill isn't looking so bad after all.

First, what industry are you in? Certainly, some of my friends, especially in the medical, financial & education fields, have relocated to the states because of higher salaries & better career prospects. I will also be relocating soon south of the border once I complete my designation. Some industries are doing quite well in Toronto, though salaries in relative terms are still 20%+ lower than the US.

Currently I have a part time job with a Florida development company while I attend school, planning for a new above grade parking garage of all things. It's been a very interesting experience as it has since morped into a urban-styled office development when they figured out it would be more profitable.

It's a lower quality of life than in Canada but no one can deny the opportunities that exists in the states to earn money. There is no limit to what you can earn whereas in Canada you're expected to make 30k or be on welfare. I'm currently majoring in Finance and will probably get another bachelors in business real estate or management.

Property tax decreases won't cut it alone to encourage employers to drum up salaries. This has to be done via lower povincial&federal income/corporate taxes, or less burden on businesses to pay for benefits/EI/pension etc. Of course, there is competitiveness/productivity & Canadian values to consider. Though Canada's taxes are not that high, they do appear to be too high when compared to the almighty United States. Property values in Toronto are not high compared to major US cities, so it does have an edge there.

Yeah.. Let's just say it's a messy issue and a whole other can of worms we won't open in here. I don't disagree with what you are saying though.

TOians, especially when services/public facilities are starting to look run down, public schools are turning into a mess, etc...

Very true... To me if you are an affluent Torontonian and living in the heart of Downtown, you must also have some kind of special connection with the city. Otherwise you would have left to the burbs' like all the rest. Toronto is one of the few cities where you will see one million dollar condos next to government subsidized housing.

Increasing residential taxes to be on par with GTA rates is definitely the way to go for Toronto in the future, but its publicity will be far from positive to any newcomers thinking of settling in Toronto. However, I doubt the offest in residential taxes will be able to cover the fiscal imbalance and allow for a decrease in business taxes... competing with the burbs would be next to impossible, especially when 905 has kept it artificially low.

Very true... To me if you are an affluent Torontonian and living in the heart of Downtown, you must also have some kind of special connection with the city. Otherwise you would have left to the burbs' like all the rest. Toronto is one of the few cities where you will see one million dollar condos next to government subsidized housing.

Yes, downtown does have that certain affinity with its residents, however, people living in affluent neighbourhoods like Bayview & Finch may not feel the same connection, especially since it's not that much different from the burbs past Steeles Ave.

^ Fully Agree. It's also possible that Toronto could fine "efficiencies" in the budget but it appears they would rather just continue to raise taxes and spend tax payers' money.

^ Hehe.. Especially with so much public opposition, I doubt it will be easy to find "efficiences" within the municipal budget... people are already complaining so much about current cuts... well, when you put it into perspective, Toronto's government is quite effective in spending, especially when compared to the Sponsorship scandal, or that ridiculous federal&provincial deficit that the PCs left, in which the Liberals started, & the NDP continued to add. Toronto has too many responsibilities for such a limited tax base... almost every US city has more taxing powers+abilities than Toronto & more government grants for transit and growth. Governments will always be wasteful spenders, that's a fact of life caused by human nature that cannot be avoided. Democracy & politics comes at a price :)

One thing I fear is that Bush's deficits, if they continue to register so high, they might one day put a drag on the American economy. Of course I hope for the best.

s quite effective in spending, especially when compared to the Sponsorship scandal, or that ridiculous federal&provincial deficit that the PCs left, in which the Liberals started, & the NDP continued to add.

lol! Yes.. When compared to those than yes, Toronto is very efficent.

One thing I fear is that Bush's deficits, if they continue to register so high, they might one day put a drag on the American economy. Of course I hope for the best.

This is the one thing which terrifies me. Bush is an idiot and may one day be the death of me.

Toronto needs a auditor general like Sheila Fraiser to continuely point out government deficiencies. Maybe an even more outspoken one, with the powers to embarrass & bring change to City Hall. 1st they should streamline the number of councillors to 22.. 44 is a waste if there's going to be political gridlock.

Yeah, what to do about Bush... I missed the DEMs&REPs sharing power @ Capitol Hill... Clinton worked for me... fiscal conservatism with relatively progessive (well at least they are in American society) policies.