Happy new year everybody...

What's going to happen with Fort York Neighbourhood?

Does anyone have any info regarding design, height and development start?

It will be very dense, and will probably be the denses neighbourhood in the city.

You're in luck. I even have some CGIs.

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Hippihop6/FYNmap.jpg
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Hippihop6/FYNimage.jpg

Don't pay too much attention to the last one. It's just meant to give you an idea of the towers in relation to Fort York.

Maybe someone could post a recent pic of Waterpark City, the first tower to be completed at FYN. I also have elevation plans for some of the other buildings including a flatiron building. They're currently floating around in my computer somewhere, and I'll post them up when I get a chance to find them.
Much of the neighbourhood is in the late planning stages, along with a few of them which are tied up at the OMB. It seems like planners may have learned from some of their mistakes with Cityplace, as FYN is set to become an great urban community.

WOW. I guess this is the revenge of the Gardiner? Is this his way of punishing Toronto for not getting the Spadina Expressway built?

Clearly whoever dreamed this up HATES Fort York. Maybe Gardiner should have put Fort York out of it's misery and put the highway right through it.

I was disgusted at the height of Waterpark city - but if this new plan goes through - generations of people will wonder what were they thinking - so much for connecting Fort York with the lake.

... or maybe this is the legacy of Mel Lastman - he publicly expressed his hate for preserving Toronto History.

This will be a very high density residential area...along with the Railway Lands and Harbourfront, a lot of people will be living here.

One thing strikes me as strange though....no good street grid structure....and no major commercial infastructure. Any high-density residential that does not have at least one major commercial street is bound to become somewhat of a wasteland....lots of people, but not much action. All these people will have to head to established commercial areas...great for the existing downtown commercial, but I think they should have designed more here to make it more of a destination.






KGB

Thanks for responding guys.

When will construction start? :cheers:

WOW. I guess this is the revenge of the Gardiner? Is this his way of punishing Toronto for not getting the Spadina Expressway built?

Clearly whoever dreamed this up HATES Fort York. Maybe Gardiner should have put Fort York out of it's misery and put the highway right through it.

I was disgusted at the height of Waterpark city - but if this new plan goes through - generations of people will wonder what were they thinking - so much for connecting Fort York with the lake.

... or maybe this is the legacy of Mel Lastman - he publicly expressed his hate for preserving Toronto History.
RIGHT On, BROTHER!
Just like Harbourftont, each and every tower at the Fort York site is a Gardiner saver! Each and every tower is a nail in the coffin of the anti - Gardiner clap - trap talkers! Hey, aside from:
1, Harbourfront towers,
2, railway tracks
3, Lakeshore blvd.
4, Cityplace and Skydome area development;
5, future port lands redevelopment and
6, the Fort York redevelopment,
the Guardinier is the biggest barrier between the lake and the city!

The Fork York Neighbourhood is being designed with the Fort in mind. The attached link is quite informative. http://www.city.toronto.on.ca/planning/fortyork_master.htm

Actually, some of the space under the gardiner could be used as retail space. I've seen a Food Emporium in NY that was located under a bridge, that used the bridge as a roof (all they did was add the walls). The gardiner is here to stay, might as well be as creative as possible.

^the deck has 10 -15 years remaining before complete replacement is necessary - nothing is permanent

Actually, some of the space under the gardiner could be used as retail space. I've seen a Food Emporium in NY that was located under a bridge, that used the bridge as a roof (all they did was add the walls). The gardiner is here to stay, might as well be as creative as possible.

That is one of the proposals. I would also expect Gardiner to come down slowly into a pair (or perhaps wider) boulevard east of Yonge eventually... Perhaps the Bremner extension to Fort York will allow it to come down from Bathurst (Front street, Lakeshore and Bremner merging into Gardiner at Fort York).

Anyway, take a hike along Yonge between St. Clair and Summerhill subway stations -- a very well done LCBO under the train tracks.

yah more glass slabs

In Hong Kong there are a variety of things under bridges / overpasses. One of the most unique things that I saw was a gas station. The bridge could provide shelter from snow and rain while fuelling.

Luckily it is unlikely we will face the costs of fuel in HK... $2.00 CAD per litre of gas. :runaway:
http://img76.exs.cx/img76/1246/HK-Shanghai-Shenzhen575.jpg

The new neigbourhood looks pretty good, if it wasnt for the stupid freeway.

MrMan,

Any info you can provide would be great :) Also, is there any way you can provide updated floor-count numbers for the buildings that are already proposed, approved or under consturction? I've been working on a Toronto 2015 waterfront skyline shot similar to the recent one that's been floating around by 3Demetia of UrbanToronto but a day shot instead.

^http://www.dabrowski.ca:8000/UrbanDB/Lists/Current_Projects/AllItems.aspx

Sorry to bring a dead thread back but what are all the buildings included in this project?

WOW. I guess this is the revenge of the Gardiner? Is this his way of punishing Toronto for not getting the Spadina Expressway built?

Clearly whoever dreamed this up HATES Fort York. Maybe Gardiner should have put Fort York out of it's misery and put the highway right through it.

I was disgusted at the height of Waterpark city - but if this new plan goes through - generations of people will wonder what were they thinking - so much for connecting Fort York with the lake.

... or maybe this is the legacy of Mel Lastman - he publicly expressed his hate for preserving Toronto History.


It will be awful for poor Fort York if it starts getting neighbours and people actually start visiting it and learning about the history of our city. As it stands Fort York is mostly unpolluted by visitors and maintains a pristine serenity that can only come from complete anonymity. The girl in the giftshop is unmolested by customers and can really have a decent snooze. Whoever planned this must really hate Fort York as there is a real and present danger of it becoming a "living museum".

Agreed, development sucks. We should hide Fort York and even take it off the map so no one gets too close. Besides, all this new development is just going to block my view of Skydome.

One simple solution for Fort York. Move it to the Lakeshore. The Fort was once there. Just give it a new home again on the water. Might even dock some tall ships and create a real museum. What do you think David Miller? Or are you snoozing again.

"One simple solution for Fort York. Move it to the Lakeshore"

that sort of defeats the purpose since its the property and not the buildings that is of historical significance and on top of that - where?

Fort York used to be located on the Lakeshore and was moved to the current location. Sunnyside park has some room. Close to where it originally sat. I wonder if that land has any historical significance.

So does everyone hate the gardiner here?

Fort York used to be located on the Lakeshore and was moved to the current location. Sunnyside park has some room. Close to where it originally sat. I wonder if that land has any historical significance.
Do you mean that some of the buildings on the site were moved there from another military area? I don't think there is any question that the land they stand on is the original 1793 site of Fort York, and thought all of these buildings were built on the site: Brick Barracks 1815
Officers Barracks and Mess 1826
Junior Officers Barracks 1930
Blockhouse # 2 1813
Brick Magazine 1814
Blockhouse # 1 1813
Stone Powder Magazine 1815
Fort York was the site of the Battle of York in the War of 1812, and is a National Historic Site. There are also officer's barracks still standing in the CNE grounds just west of the Princes' Gate that was built as the second fort in 1840. I would love to see as authentic replica as possible of the 1750 Fort Rouillé built on the CNE grounds where the monument to it exists in honor of those early European settlers. In any case, I think it would be a great thing to have a living community surrounding the fort. I'll bet a large % of Torontonians don't even know where this fort is, because Toronto is not a city that dwells on its past, but rather looks forward to its future. It is quite hard to even get to if you don't know where you are going. I'm not crazy about the birthplace of our city being Toronto's Best Kept Secret.

Taller Better, I was definately thinking about Fort Rouillé, my mistake. I can't believe they rerouted the Gardiner Expressway to save the fort. I think having the fort is a great asset for the city. But moving it to the water might be better for tourism both local and foreign. The Fort is hard to find and not easily accessible for most tourists and residents. I guess we'll see in time.

Taller Better, I was definately thinking about Fort Rouillé, my mistake. I can't believe they rerouted the Gardiner Expressway to save the fort. I think having the fort is a great asset for the city. But moving it to the water might be better for tourism both local and foreign. The Fort is hard to find and not easily accessible for most tourists and residents. I guess we'll see in time.


Ah, that makes sense. I think it is a shame that the fort is so hard to get to, and there is not a lot of residential around there for foot traffic. Also I think that the Fort Rouillé idea could be a good tourist draw. Toronto has never paid enough attention to marketing its history- it is as if they just want to forget all about it. Other cities get too caught up in the past and don't pay enough attention to the future, but there should be a happy medium!
Also it is a shame that the second Fort York was all but demolished, in the 50's I believe, leaving only the officer's barracks. One has to ask "Why"? To make a parking lot for the CNE grounds?
In any case, Fort York could never be moved from the original grounds, but other old forts on the lake could be reconstructed. A lot of people who visit Quebec City don't realize that some of what they are looking at has been reconstructed. Some of it was even reconstructed in the wrong place! ;)
Ironically we should be discussing it today, but I took these photos of Stanley Barracks last night on my way home from the Chinese Lantern festival, and from photographing the Princes' Gates:

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7905/aug0806stanleybarrackszr1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6542/aug0806stanleybarracksioj2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It is eery looking, and not a good picture, but was more just to jog my memory to get out and photograph it during the day. This could be part of and exciting fort development at the CNE grounds as a tourist destination!

I never knew about Fort Stanley. There are layers of history paved over and forgotten in this city. I think you make a valid point to say that Quebec city has parts of it rebuilt where there were the original building never stood. But I didn't care about that when I was in Quebec city. It's such an amazing place even it's somewhat historically inaccurate. If Fort York was on the Water it would be amazing and most people wouldn't even realise it was once somewhere else. It's only the die hard history buffs that would be upset.

Thanks again for the info on Fort Stanley.

I never knew about Fort Stanley. There are layers of history paved over and forgotten in this city. I think you make a valid point to say that Quebec city has parts of it rebuilt where there were the original building never stood. But I didn't care about that when I was in Quebec city. It's such an amazing place even it's somewhat historically inaccurate. If Fort York was on the Water it would be amazing and most people wouldn't even realise it was once somewhere else. It's only the die hard history buffs that would be upset.

Thanks again for the info on Fort Stanley.

I think we could have the best of both worlds by having a Fort Rouille on the lakeshore, and keep Fort York where it is. That way it would be historically correct all round. Maybe the barracks at Fort Stanley should be moved to Fort York, or even downtown, say to the Old Garrison Burying Grounds park that is completely, utterly under used. It is a very cool building. They have a plan to build more buildings at Fort York, but it will take time as they get so few visitors.
You are not the only one who doesn't know about Fort Stanley. I bet 99% of Torontonians have never heard of it. In another section recently there was a long haggle regarding the history of Halifax vs Toronto. People in Halifax are raised to think of their town as historic, and that history is a big part of their tourism. People in Toronto ignore the history, and thus many think of it as being a much newer city than it really is. I think Toronto should stop ignoring its history, and start using it as a tourist attraction. Part of the problem is that much of the history of Toronto is British and there are lots of people in Toronto who try hard to forget that part of our history.

Now that sounds like a great idea. They could buy up old french fort buildings or build them on the water in front of the CNE. I would also like to see them do something about that little castle like gas station on the waterfront. I remember filling up there as a kid. That place could become a tourist trap all on it's own. Someone should propose something to one of the major gas stations. Heritage, a good cause and a money maker.

dp

"authentic replica as possible of the 1750 Fort Rouillé built on the CNE grounds

having walked the perimeter avoiding as much goose shit as possible - it was quite small though

Part of the problem is that much of the history of Toronto is British and there are lots of people in Toronto who try hard to forget that part of our history.

Another problem is that Canada has been defined by geography, not history. History is something that we just don't think about. Sad really. Now geography, that gets people talking.

You are not the only one who doesn't know about Fort Stanley. I bet 99% of Torontonians have never heard of it.

*raise hand* I haven't heard of it either. Toronto history is VERY cool and should be preserved as much as possible.

This thread has been great! Thanks for the info, next time I am at the CNE I will take a look.

"authentic replica as possible of the 1750 Fort Rouillé built on the CNE grounds

having walked the perimeter avoiding as much goose shit as possible - it was quite small though


Yes, it was a small little fort. (picture graciously supplied by Haligonian):

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5170/fortrouillhj6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The plan of the Fort looks quite cool:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4932/april2806cnefortrouille1750plaqueug9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

and the view was spectacular:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5668/april2806cnefortrouille1750viewyt1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1194/april2806cnefortrouille1750viewiios3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6282/april2806cnefortrouille1750viewizp5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

If perhaps the reconstructed fort is too small to effectively be a tourist attraction, then maybe they can use a bit of creative imagination and do a bit of a Black Creek Pioneer village around it. Black Creek is wonderful, but so far from downtown. They already have Scadding Cabin beside Fort Rouille and it is our oldest remaining structure in Toronto (1793). Maybe they can move the last remaining barracks of Fort Stanley over to here.
I read an interesting article in yesterday's Post how they are thinking of trying to save an 1879 cabin in Calgary that is their oldest building and probably their original Hudson Bay outpost.

1879? Haaaa Haaaa. What will they preserve in 150 years, oil derricks?

I think we are very lucky to have boomed the first time in the 19th century... Can anyone imagine Toronto without Queen St. or the Annex, for example?

Without Bloor Street And Queen Street we would have a financial district surrounded by suburbia. Now that is scary. Younge would be more intese. Probably the only walkable place in the city.

Without Bloor Street And Queen Street we would have a financial district surrounded by suburbia. Now that is scary. Younge would be more intese. Probably the only walkable place in the city.

That is a very strange analysis: "Without Bloor Street And Queen Street we would have a financial district surrounded by suburbia".
How well are you aquainted with downtown Toronto, and all the various communities there are? Do you consider, for example, the Beach or the Gay Village to be suburbia? Or the Annex?

"Fort York used to be located on the Lakeshore and was moved to the current location."


We could almost say this statement is true...except it's the lakeshore that was moved. The pre-20th century part of downtown looks like it's about 900 feet from the lake....because about 900 feet of landfill has been added to it.

It's a shame that our own little asshole, Fred Gardiner, thought so little of our heritage, that he thought Fort York, Stanley barracks, and many other heritage sites (including Parkdale) were completely ruinable. Somebody should dig up that losers bones, and put them on public display for all to piss on.

The 1950's has to go down as the most destructive decade in Toronto's history.




KGB