London Underground

[hkskyline]

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Canary Wharf
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[Vertigo]

Great pics. Londen Underground is certainly one of the most interesting metro systems in the world. It's the world's oldest, one of the most extensive and the tube lines are very typical due to their narrow profile... The extended Jubilee Line is an awesome extension to the network.

[SpastiK]

nice pics!! :)

[efrost]

Nice pics, but deceiving I think... Canary Wharf st, Charing X st or Parlament st are not representative. The sad truth is that London underground is in a very poor condition. I have used it on daily basis it for 3 years and I have first hand expirience.

[Never]

Nice pics, but deceiving I think... Canary Wharf st, Charing X st or Parlament st are not representative. The sad truth is that London underground is in a very poor condition. I have used it on daily basis it for 3 years and I have first hand expirience.

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/pressreleases/0410/12.asp

As for the pics there are a lot of the older lines such as the Northern linem pictured, and you can see that these lines are due for major refurbishment.

Infact apart from the last couple of photos they are all of the older tube lines and stations with the Northern line being the deepest and most need of upgrading of all the tube lines, the pictures therefore mainly reflect the worst of the tube rather than the best.

[efrost]

humm, there are still 60´s trains running in the London underground...still, I am glad to see that see that major improvements are going to be made. London deserves a better public system. Are there any plans for the commuting trains as well?

[Rational Plan]

Most of the old Suburban stock will have been replaced by the end of this year. Some of 1980's stock is going through extensive mid life replacement. I have certainly been impressed by the new trains on South West trains and the refurbished stock for the inner suburbs looks good too. The tube is certainly old and has been neglected, but finally proper investment is going in and within 7 years the network will be signifcantly more reliable. By 2016 most of the network will have replaced its trains, the new stock for the victoria line and the subsurface network will all be of walk through stock.

[aznichiro115]

so many types os stock in hong kong there are only 2 types on the main like 5 types total

[Never]

I love the Tube it's has a certain subteranean eerie quality about it :)

http://www.andykay.org.uk/images/lighting/tube.jpg

http://www.ideasmerchant.com/go/art/2003/20030927=derby-london-museum/dsc09841-show-architecture=victorian_underground.jpg

Actually this picture is more reflective of a Typical Tube Station
as they are not usually as cramped as the Northern Line.

http://www.bakerlite.co.uk/pics/England/London/tube.jpg

The Tube System is full of diverse and unexpexted Architecture, here's
Notting Hill Tube Station

http://cuboidal.org/photos/2004/02/28/IMG_5352-medium.jpg

http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Uxbridge%20train%20shed%202.JPG

http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/london/000london2/002/067b-tube-new.jpg

http://www.shearersoftware.com/personal/pictures/2003/12/england-trip/img_2881-md.jpg

http://anthonyjhicks.com/ajh/pictures.nsf/viewer/C5D4A74FC6BBC36980256D750033BD50/$FILE/1024_PICT2491.jpg

http://stage.co.il/images/dannesher273059.jpg

[W A R I O]

The tube,especicaly the nothern line,stinks!!!!!!!!!!!!

They shoudlnt allow people to use it!

[Never]

The tube,especicaly the nothern line,stinks!!!!!!!!!!!!

They shoudlnt allow people to use it!

But you stink W A R I O and your still allowed to use this site!!!!

Perhaps you should get a bath smelly!!!!

BTW F.... U

[Nephasto]

But you stink W A R I O and your still allowed to use this site!!!!

Perhaps you should get a bath smelly!!!!

BTW F.... U

:laugh:

Nothing beats the good old tube!

[Tubeman]

Nice pics, but deceiving I think... Canary Wharf st, Charing X st or Parlament st are not representative. The sad truth is that London underground is in a very poor condition. I have used it on daily basis it for 3 years and I have first hand expirience.

I'm sorry but I disagree. Its easy to look down your nose at the Tube when you have a stunning modern Metro like Madrid, but I'd be interested to see what it looks like when its 140 years old. Considering the age of the infrastructure I think that Tube stations and trains are very clean, bright and welcoming and very well-staffed.

If you offered me to swap the classic 19th Century stations like Notting Hill gate (above) and the turn of the century deep level tube line stations with their tiled walls for a load of space age stations then the Tube would lose all its character. Which stations / trains are you thinking of that are in "poor condition"? I think that cosmetically London Underground does a great job... the underinvestment is apparent looking at the track and signalling but the average customer wouldn't notice this.

Re: the 1960's trains...

Yes the Metropolitan Line runs 1960s stock, but it was totally overhauled 10 years ago (i.e. the cars stripped back to nothing and rebuilt) so its not as if you're looking at 1960s paintwork, floors or seats. To all intents and purposes the trains were brand new when refurbished from a customers point of view. In fact all older trains (pre-1980) were totally refurbished between 1990 and 2000 which coincided with brand new trains for the Central, Northern and Jubilee Lines. The oldest cars which haven't been refurbished are the D Stock on the District Line, which have just started being sent off for overhaul.

[Frog]

i agree, the tube has character and charm unlike all these modern metros

[Tubeman]

My Underground Train Thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=151241&page=1&pp=20)

[redstone]

Any pics of the first line?

[Tubeman]

Any pics of the first line?

As in the first ever, the Metropolitan Railway from Farringdon Street to Paddington?

[Tubeman]

Baker Street Station then:

http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/learning/online_resources/ecobus_omnibus/image/0322.jpg

And Now:

http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Baker%20St%20light.jpg

Link (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/learning/online_resources/ecobus_omnibus/image/0322.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/learning/online_resources/ecobus_omnibus/pg/1851a.htm&h=248&w=374&sz=19&tbnid=w_PuaS2qwK8J:&tbnh=78&tbnw=117&start=11&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmetropolitan%2Brailway%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG)

King's Cross then:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_culture/welfare/images/kings_cross.jpg

Compare it to the photo of Notting Hill Gate station above; the ornate over-roof was standard for the original Metropolitan Railway stations. The King's Cross Station above is closed today, as it was relocated towards the Main Line terminus in the 1940s... The present day Metropolitan platforms aren't much to look at in comparison.

Another thing you may notice is how wide the trains are; the line was built to Great Western Railway 7" Broad gauge as opposed to English standard 4' 8.5", as it physically linked to the Great Western Railway at Paddington. If you look closely you can see a third rail... this is (obviously) nothing to do with electric trains, the line is actually dual-gauge so both Broad and Standard Gauge trains could use the route (it also linked to the Main Lines at King's Cross, St Pancras and Liverpool Street).

[hkskyline]

Interestingly, the District and Circle line trains are wider and taller than the other lines. It's quite easy to bump the head while standing by the door on the typical London Underground train.

[Tubeman]

Interestingly, the District and Circle line trains are wider and taller than the other lines. It's quite easy to bump the head while standing by the door on the typical London Underground train.

The District, Circle, Hammersmith & City, Metropolitan and East London Lines all use what is known as "Surface" Stock, which is basically of the same dimensions as Mainline Trains. This reflects the fact that they are the oldest parts of London Underground and built as Mainline Railways that happened to pass under London's streets. They all had numerous connections with Mainline railways when first built, some of which remain (e.g. District Line at Gunnersbury and East Putney, and Metropolitan Line at Harrow-on-the-Hill and Amersham). They all also originally used steam traction (see picture above from King's Cross).

The later, smaller "Tube" lines were all self-contained and electrically powered from their inception. Their dimensions were as small as possible to minimise construction costs, although they still use the Standard Gauge... admittedly they can feel quite pokey if you aren't used to them.

[spsmiler]

Hi Never,

where was this taken - I dont recognise it!

http://www.andykay.org.uk/images/lighting/tube.jpg

also, is this (below) the passageway linking the museums to South Kensignton station?

Simon

http://www.ideasmerchant.com/go/art/2003/20030927=derby-london-museum/dsc09841-show-architecture=victorian_underground.jpg

[spsmiler]

Why "Tube" trains are so-called! (seen near Hendon Central Station)

http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/PCD13g_127.jpg

The "surface" stock trains are more or less the same size as the mainline trains. (seen near West Ham station)

http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/PCD13b_047.jpg

the two sizes of train side by side This view was taken at a location where the Piccadily Line 'tube' trains heading to Heathrow Airport provide an express(ish) service whilst the larger District Line trains call at 'all stations'.)

http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/PCD09_20.jpg

Simon

[spsmiler]

The Richmond Branch of the District Line shares tracks with the North London Line's (mainline) trains. The mainline trains are the class 313 trains which can operate either on 750v dc third rail or 25,000v ac overhead wires.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/Video/313_D_track_share.jpg

It is important to catch the right train as otherwise you could end up somewhere where you really dont want to be! (The NLL also serves some of London's rougher areas where tourists with cameras must be more streetwise.)
Seen at Kew Gardens station, next to the globally reknown botanical gardens.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/2111_33a.jpg

North of Queens Park Station the Bakerloo Line runs over mainline tracks, sharing them with suburban trains - either the class 313 trains as seen above or the class 507 trains which are visually identical but only operate on third rail. Nowadays the underground trains only go as far as Harrow and Wealdstone but at one time they used to travel all the way to Watford Junction. Unlike other areas in London where underground and trains operate joint services the section north of Queens Park only uses mainline tickets and certain types of London Underground tickets are not valid. Travelling on an underground train north of Queens Park is something that train fans will find interesting - especially as to join the mainline tracks they will pass through a trainshed. Note for reasons of personal safety it is best to keep your wits about, especially at stations such as Harlesdon and Willesden Junction (where the North London Line intersects) - I am not saying dont go there - as I have many times - just to "be careful". This is Stonebridge Park station, where there is a depot.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/2083_01.jpg

Further up the line the mainline and suburban trains run alongside each other with 4 tracks electrified with overhead wires and two with electric rails. The type of InterCity train seen here is being replaced by the tilting Pendolino, but when this video-still was captured the tiilting trains were still to be built.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/Video/Bkrloo_Virgin.jpg

South Kenton is a much favoured spot for train watching from the island platform. Here a Virgin Pendolino heading north passes a southbound underground train (towards London) as it starts to leave the station. I was lucky - not only to get these trains side-by-side like this but because the Pendolino had just switched from the slow to the fast tracks (the one it is on now) it was travelling fairly slowly, making photography significantly easier.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/Digi/582.jpg

Same spot looking in the opposite direction - a northbound EWS (England Wales Scotland) freight train passes by ion the slow tracks. Shame its a diesel though. The tracks used by the southbound underground and "Silverlink Metro" trains can be seen in the foreground (must keep on topic for this thread!!)
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/PCD03_35.jpg

The Finsbury Park - Highbury & Islington - Moorgate section of London's Underground was a self-contained shuttle which used an incompatible 4 rail system where the electric rails were 10" (25cm) outside of the tracks, one each per side. This was changed to standard when tube trains replaced the original trains in the late 1930's. With the Victoria Line taking over its platforms at Finsbury Park (for same level interchange with the Piccadilly line) in 1964 the underground section between Drayton park and Finsbury Park stations was closed.
More recently with its incorporation into the "Great Northern Electrics" mainline electrification in the 1970's it was converted to 3rd rail only and became part of BR using the Class 313 twin-system trains seen above.
Note that this line is no longer shown on the famous London UndergrounD map and that nowadays no service is provided in the evenings or at weekends, much to the dismay of people who live near Eaasex Road Station. This view comes from Highbury & Islington station, where the trains have same level interchange with the Victoria Line and interchange with the North London Line (above ground) is also possible.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/Digi/767.jpg

Simon

[spsmiler]

The London Underground uses a 4-rail system where the electrical return is isolated from the the running rails (the rails used by the train's wheels).
Sparks like this are quite normal and occurs when the electric power collection "shoes" of a train that is motoring (ie: drawing power) reach the end of a section of electric power rail - such as at junctions, as here.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/PCD03_01.jpg

The Docklands Light Railway features a modified 3rd rail system where powerful springs force the "shoe" upwards so that it collects power by sliding along the underside of the electric rail. This train was in a special livery to commemorate the Queen's Golden Jubilee.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/Digi/2201.jpg

Steam train passing through Wembley Park station one evening in the 1990's. It was passing through one of the platforms which until the recent rebuilding works (which are still in progress) was mainly used by northbound Metropolitan lime trains which run through non-stop.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/Video/Steam_Wemb_Pk.jpg

Originally part of a fleet of 20 electric locomotives Sarah Siddons was built in 1923 by the former Metropolitan Railway for its London - Chesham / Amersham - Aylesbury (and beyond) services which until WW2 sometimes even included a Pullman carriage offering light refreshments. These engines ran over the electrified section between London and Harrow-On-The-Hill (or, after 1925, Rickmansworth) whilst steam locomotives operated services over the rest of the route. Initially she escaped the "knacker's yard" for "operational" reasons but eventually her nostalgic value was realised. Nowadays she often takes part in leisure-orientated events such as "Steam on the Met". Until mainline railway privatisation some railtours even saw her hauling British Railways InterCity carriages on both the Underground and the 3rd rail Southern Electric networks.

The Pullman carraiges were actually introduced in 1910 and using different electric locomotives were the first electrically hauled Pullman's "anywhere" globally. They were for first class passengers only and as usual there was a supplement (extra charge) for travelling in the Pullman, initially this being either 6d (ie: six pence in real money or 2½p in modern decimal money) or 1s 0d (ie: one shilling, which equated to 12 pence in real money or 5p decimal) according to distance travelled, although later this was reduced to just 6d for all journeys. They were also fitted with toilets, which, as usual (in those days) discharged onto the tracks and were even allowed to be used whilst travelling through tunnelled sections of the route.

Scones and afternoon cream tea anyone?
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/PCD08_24.jpg
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/PCD12_38.jpg


At one time a whole fleet of slam door compartment trains such as these operated on Londons' (now truncated) Metropolitan line between London and Aylesbury, changing between steam and electric locomotives during station stops at either Harrow-On-The-Hill or (after 1925) Rickmansworth stations.

They were actually purchased by the Metropolitan Railway which saw itself as a mainline railway. The Met's demise came in 1933 when - at the government's behest - it was forcibly merged into what became known as The London Passenger Transport Board.

Within months of gaining control the new owners started looking to reduce the Met's sphere of operations, a policy which by 1937 had seen some line closures and a handover of non-core passenger operations to the London & North Eastern Railway (LNER); in 1962 there was further retrenchment when services beyond Amersham were handed over to British Railways.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/PCD08_17.jpg
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/PCD08_33.jpg

The Metropolitan line was originally built as a mainline railway and can still be used by steam & electric locomotive hauled trains as well as the Chiltern 'Turbo' trains (seen leaving other platform).
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/2111_28.jpg

A modern-era Chiltern 'Turbo' 165 train heading for Marylebone leaves Rickmansworth station, whilst running over London Underground tracks. The smoke above the train clearly identifies it as being diesel powered.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/Video/DMU_on_Met.jpg

Simon

[spsmiler]

Old signal cabin on a Central Line platform at London Liverpool Street Station. As a schoolboy I used to change trains here every day and as I walked along the platform to the escalators I would pause for a few moments and watch the signalman operating the levers, knobs and dials. Much to my delight I would sometimes be invited in and given a quick 'tour' of how the system worked. (The signalmen also made sure I did not stay too long and become late for school!)

Since this picture was taken the whole line has been resignalled and the cabin has been closed.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/2111_06.jpg

The 'Traditional' view of a London Underground tube train. This type of train was first introduced in 1938 and although now withdrawn from London some examples are still in use on the Isle of Wight. Seen at Morden on the Northern Line.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/PCD08_05.jpg

Internally these trains offered a degree of seating which many claim is far more comfortable (and numerous) than more modern UndergrounD trains.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/PCD13a_112.jpg


Despite being experimental in design, dating from the 1960's and only four trains having actually been constructed the "Craven" tube trains have become very much part of the nostalgia movement.

Only the motor cars were built new - they were intended to work with older trailer (non powered ) cars dating from the 1920's. In the 1990's the older trailers were replaced with newer examples dating from the late 1930's, this being the format in which the train has been preserved.

These trains saw most of their lives working on the Hainault - Woodford shuttle service as test-beds for automatic (self driving) trains. Nowadays the preserved train is used as a working attraction during special events.


"Craven" tube train at North Wield station on the Epping - Ongar branch of the Central Line, which was closed in 1994. Heritage diesel services have just started on part of this line (Sundays only, as far as I am aware)
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/2111_25.jpg

Trains such as these were introduced in the 1930's and lasted until the 1980's. Although there were several variants which featured different electrical components the difference which passengers would have noticed was in the internal illumination, with the red trains using light bulbs and the white trains using flourescent tubes.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/PCD13a_105.jpg


After withdrawal a few commemorative tours were operated for staff and train enthusiasts. When the train visited the single-track Olympia branch it replaced the 'normal' passenger service so also carried fare paying passengers (like me!); normally I dont trespass on the tracks (it can be dangerous, even lethal) but in this instance permission was granted.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/4552_80.jpg

This view comes from inside of the red trains seen above. The door-less doorways inside the car date from when the District line trains included provision for first class passengers with two internal doors in the car to keep the first and third class passengers apart plus split the first class section into smoking and non-smoking areas. First class on the District line was abolished in 1940 and smoking was banned after the 1987 escalator fire disaster at Kings Cross station, which apparently happened shortly after government-inspired economies saw escalator litter cleaning reduced from daily to alternate days.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/PCD09_33.jpg


Preserved underground carriage (called car on the UndergrounD) complete with a sales stand laden with books videos and freebie leaflets promoting the various railway preservationist organisations and their activities.
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/PCD13a_102.jpg

all pics from my website - www.citytransport.info

the website is still being built and some pages are still incomplete, but its mostly there!

Simon

[Tubeman]

Fantastic post! :applause:

Where are pics from? I could never find any decent pics when I was looking for pics of old stocks etc.

This pic:

http://www.andykay.org.uk/images/lighting/tube.jpg

Isn't real... Its certainly not Bond Street, its too dark, there's too much litter, connecting passageways never have big Roundels in them like that (they're on platforms) and that poster isn't real. Its a piece of artwork, I'm certain!

[Never]

I don't know much about the pics other than they are the represent the tube, the first is artwork whilst the second does look like one of the more upmarket tubestations such as Kensington :wink2:

[spsmiler]

Tubeman - they are all mine! I'm 45 and have been filmong (on and off) for about 25 years.

These are all taken from my website, which looks at 10 different types of transport technology with a basic theme of showing that there are transport solutions to local and global environmental issues which add value to people lives', dont help "big brother" keeping tabs on people (Hitler and Stalin would have L-O-V-E-D smartcard technologies) AND are alternatives to just financially penalising motorists.

One day (when i have more time - and the website is finished) there will be even more pics online. I have a collection of 110 size films from the late 1970's which have never been digitised. I also *wish* that I had been filming as a schoolboy - things which have now gone, such as diesel trains on the widened lines... even DMU's on the Epping branch - I understand that there was still at least one early morning BR DMU in the 1970's. Nowadays though the link with the mainline (which was near Leyton station) has been lost as the very controversial A12 road extension which was built in the 1990's between the A102M and Wanstead has severed it. That said, the tracks are still designed for mainline trains and at the stations there is still a wider than normal gap between the train and the platform (because the mainline trains are wider than the tube trains).

As for the passageway, it looks like it could pass under a road, or be a station exit. Most certainly its not Bond street as this station's passageways are more box shaped -not curved as here.


Never, thanks - if this passageway is where I think it is then its only partly connected with the Underground, and it is free to use.

Simon

[Tubeman]

Tubeman - they are all mine! I'm 45 and have been filmong (on and off) for about 25 years.

These are all taken from my website, which looks at 10 different types of transport technology with a basic theme of showing that there are transport solutions to local and global environmental issues which add value to people lives', dont help "big brother" keeping tabs on people (Hitler and Stalin would have L-O-V-E-D smartcard technologies) AND are alternatives to just financially penalising motorists.

One day (when i have more time - and the website is finished) there will be even more pics online. I have a collection of 110 size films from the late 1970's which have never been digitised. I also *wish* that I had been filming as a schoolboy - things which have now gone, such as diesel trains on the widened lines... even DMU's on the Epping branch - I understand that there was still at least one early morning BR DMU in the 1970's. Nowadays though the link with the mainline (which was near Leyton station) has been lost as the very controversial A12 road extension which was built in the 1990's between the A102M and Wanstead has severed it. That said, the tracks are still designed for mainline trains and at the stations there is still a wider than normal gap between the train and the platform (because the mainline trains are wider than the tube trains).

As for the passageway, it looks like it could pass under a road, or be a station exit. Most certainly its not Bond street as this station's passageways are more box shaped -not curved as here.


Never, thanks - if this passageway is where I think it is then its only partly connected with the Underground, and it is free to use.

Simon

Yes, early morning British Rail trains ran to Epping until 1970, and the link at Leyton was finally removed in 1972. If I as an amateur railway historian and London Underground drone could be of any assistance to your site, let me know!

[spsmiler]

Yes, early morning British Rail trains ran to Epping until 1970, and the link at Leyton was finally removed in 1972. If I as an amateur railway historian and London Underground drone could be of any assistance to your site, let me know!


Thanks Tubeman.

What I really need more than anything else are some 48 hour days so that I can get it finished!


I seem to suffer from an irritating habit called "work" which takes us a massive amount of my time - although once in a while my bank balance receives a temporary boost!

That said, if you see anything which you think I've got wrong, or missed out, then drop me a line!

I tend to come to this forum at weekends more than weekdays.

Simon

[Insane alex]

Weren't there going to be a new line constructed?

[nick_taylor]

^^ Work has started on the East London Line which is 4 extensions.

http://www.ellp.co.uk/img/large_map.gif


Work on ventilation shafts has begun for Crossrail I do believe. An extension is nearly complete on th DLR linking London City Airport with another 2 extensions starting soon. And CTRL is over 2/3 complete (the HSR link to Paris from London). The Heathrow Express and Piccadilly lines are being extended to the new Heathrow Terminal 5. I think the Metropolitan extension to Watford will begin by the end of the year.

[hkskyline]

More :

http://img144.exs.cx/img144/554/dscn47501af.jpg

http://img144.exs.cx/img144/9708/dscn47516kt.jpg

http://img144.exs.cx/img144/6530/dscn47534kq.jpg

http://img144.exs.cx/img144/5585/dscn47559mu.jpg

http://img144.exs.cx/img144/6863/dscn47572qt.jpg

http://img144.exs.cx/img144/7371/dscn47585va.jpg

[Justme]

@ spsmiler, what an amazing contrabution to this thread. Thanks for your excellent photographs and summarys! I hope you hang around this forum for a while to continue posting such brilliant details about London railways!

just one question, did I understand right that in Kew Gardens station the North London line trains arrive at the same platform of the tube trains?

[UptownGuy]

I think that London and NY's subways are quite similar.

[Falubaz]

yeaah for sure...
ARE U KIDDING???!!!

[UptownGuy]

Nope

[natethetransitfreak]

i think there's more similarity with HK's MTR than New York's. Those platform screen doors are just like the one's in HK. I believe the rolling stock from both systems are built by the same company, i think?

[VAN-TO]

The Island Line in HK is clearly modelled after the classic London tube.

[Tubeman]

@ spsmiler, what an amazing contrabution to this thread. Thanks for your excellent photographs and summarys! I hope you hang around this forum for a while to continue posting such brilliant details about London railways!

just one question, did I understand right that in Kew Gardens station the North London line trains arrive at the same platform of the tube trains?

I'll field that one...

Yes they do, as they also do at Gunnersbury and the entire Bakerloo Line between Queen's Park and Harrow & Wealdstone... these sections are owned by Network Rail and London Underground merely has running powers over them, with Silverlink Metro also operating services. Its not a major issue on the District Line Richmond Branch as the Underground Trains are "Surface" Stock (D78) so the platform heights are ok for both the Underground and "Overground" trains, but on the Bakerloo Line there are "Overground" trains and tiny Tube trains stopping at the same platforms.

Incidentally, although now owned by LUL the District Line between East Putney and Wimbledon is still used by Mainline SWT stock moves on a daily basis, and occasionally for passenger services during Engineering Works.

Kew Gardens... same size... No problem!

http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/Video/313_D_track_share.jpg

Northern end of Bakerloo Line... big size difference!

http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/PhotoCD/2083_01.jpg

[Justme]

Thanks Tubeman! :cheers:

[nick_taylor]

Two pictures I took of the descending travelator at Bank station going down to the Waterloo & City line platforms:

http://img204.exs.cx/img204/2848/teaser8hq.jpg

http://img204.exs.cx/img204/5260/teaser25rg.jpg


One of the most colourful travelators for sure :laugh:

[Falubaz]

it's wonderful!!! are there more such thinks in LON???

[spsmiler]

@ spsmiler, what an amazing contrabution to this thread. Thanks for your excellent photographs and summarys! I hope you hang around this forum for a while to continue posting such brilliant details about London railways!

just one question, did I understand right that in Kew Gardens station the North London line trains arrive at the same platform of the tube trains?


sorry for the delay, I've been away.

anyway, thanks to tubeman you now have the answer!

btw, betwen Rayners Lane and Uxbridge the small profile Piccadily Line trains and large profile Metropolitan line trains also share tracks and station platforms.

The tubetrains are lower than the platform and the larger traisn are higher than the platform.

It makes disabled access very difficult - and wheelchair access almost impossible (without a strong person to help).

Another issue is that the tube trains are narrower, so there is a wider gap between the train and the platform. This also applies on the Central line between Leyton and Epping because although Underground trains started using that route in the late 1940's the last mainline trains stopped travelling here in 1971.

Simon

[Jayayess1190]

I want to visit london really bad now

[Jayayess1190]

:) The Tube is AWSOME!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hkskyline]

London Subway Lines May Be Closed for 'Months'

March 10 (Bloomberg) -- London's Waterloo & City and Northern subway lines, which serve more than 700,000 passengers every weekday, may be shut for "months" at a time for maintenance and upgrading work, the system's owner said.

London Underground Ltd. is considering the benefits of closing the lines for periods beyond the current overnight and weekend shutdowns, which restrict the amount of work that can be done, Managing Director Tim O'Toole told the London Assembly's Transport Committee today.

Tube Lines Ltd. and Metronet, which have 30-year contracts to maintain and upgrade the subway, are struggling to improve the network while continuing to operate a service for its 3 million daily passengers. Closing lines for longer periods would allow more work to be done to improve the world's oldest and Europe's largest underground rail network.

"It's the kind of thing we are willing to do if we see we are going to get the payback," O'Toole said of the proposed line closures. Terry Morgan, chief executive of Tube Lines Ltd., which is responsible for work on the Northern Line, said he has given London Underground a proposal that includes plans for longer shutdowns. He declined to say how long, though said the line may be split into seven sections and closed in turn.

The Northern Line, the system's busiest, carries about 710,000 passengers a day. It extends from Morden in south London to High Barnet and Edgware in the north, via two routes: one through the City and the other through London's West End theater district. The Waterloo & City line, which is the responsibility of Metronet, operates a non-stop shuttle service from Waterloo rail station to Bank in the capital's financial district, known as the City. It carries more than 40,000 people a day.

"Clearly it's going to be a great concern for London businesses," Dan Bridgett, a spokesman for London Chamber of Commerce, said in a telephone interview. "But we have been calling for a long time for new investment in the Tube, so provided its going to result in tangible benefits, perhaps it's a price we have to pay."

Parts of the Northern Line are "driving us all nuts," said O'Toole, who during the past two weekends has closed the City branch of the line for maintenance work. Closing the line for longer periods of time would cut short the work program by about two years, Tube Lines' Morgan said.

Brian Cooke, chairman of London Transport Users Committee, said research carried out by the group had shown that commuters were prepared to put up with such a closure if it produced "tangible" results.

If the shut down is properly planned and London Underground gives out details of alternative travel arrangements, "commuters will actually welcome" it, Cooke said in an interview. "One has to accept that there is going to be pain to get the gain."

[Justme]

^Well, if it brings the improvements ahead as far as they claim, then maybe it's not a bad thing. But it would be a hassle of cause.

[redstone]

Can someone post photos of the first lines and stations?
Thanks! :D

[nick_taylor]

Was looking for some pictures - but found these ones instead :D


http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/Arnos%20Grove.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/Baker%20Street%20Entrance.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/Baker%20Street.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/Boston%20Manor.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/Camden%20Town%20night.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/Chalk%20Farm%201.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/Ealing%20Brdwy.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/Embankment.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/Gloucester%20Road.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/Hammersmith%20Bench.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/Manor%20House.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/Moredon%201.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/Mornington%20Crescent.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/North%20Ealing.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/Oakwood%20Interior.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/PORTLAND.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/White%20City%201.jpg

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/To%20The%20Trains.jpg




Baker Street - one of the oldest underground stations on the planet:
http://www.geocities.co.jp/SilkRoad-Forest/3616/UNDER/PIC/P0386.jpg

http://www.geocities.co.jp/SilkRoad-Forest/3616/UNDER/PIC/P0371.jpg


One of the more interesting stations in London, Clapham Common:
http://www.geocities.co.jp/SilkRoad-Forest/3616/UNDER/PIC/P0978.jpg

[Justme]

Nick, you found some of the best photo's of the underground I have seen!

[Tubeman]

They're great! Agreed :okay:

redstone; Baker Street is THE oldest Metro / Subway station in the World (jointly)

It opened in 1863 on the Metropolitan Railway between Paddington and Farringdon Street. I posted an engraving of Baker Street back then elsewhere; I'll try to find it.

[James]

What makes the photos Nick posted so amazing is that they were originally Black and White pictures, and the amount of time that the photographer must have spent to colourise them is unbelievable.

[hkskyline]

The London Transport Museum in Covent Garden has a large collection of old Underground maps. It's quite a fascinating exhibition :
Some Photos (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=189302)

[Crusader]

the London underground needs a radical overhaul. it desperately needs modernization.

[Bitxofo]

the London underground needs a radical overhaul. it desperately needs modernization.

Yes, I agree with you!
;)

[hkskyline]

Tube Lines says better performance justifies controversial rise in profits
By Michael Harrison
7 May 2005
The Independent

Tube Lines, one of the two private-sector consortia which have taken over the London Underground, is set to court fresh controversy by revealing an increase in profits.

The consortium, which is responsible for the Jubilee, Northern and Piccadilly lines, is thought to have achieved a significant improvement on the £45m profit it made in its first year of operations. Details of Tube Lines" latest profits for the financial year which ended in April are due to be released in July.

Terry Morgan, the chief executive of Tube Lines, did not disclose the specific profit figure but said the business was performing well and justified the money it is making from the Underground contract by pointing to improved performance.

Major upgrades to the Northern and Jubilee lines are running ahead of schedule and Tube Lines has also exceeded the targets set by London Underground for punctuality and train failures. The programme to modernise or refurbish the 100 stations which Tube Lines is responsible for is on track.

Mr Morgan said investment in the network was ahead of schedule at about £350m last year and would rise again in the current financial year to at least £380m. Tube Lines, whose two shareholders are the Spanish transport group Ferrovial and the US construction giant Bechtel, has pledged to spend £4.4bn in the first seven and a half years of its 30-year contract to modernise the Underground. The Spanish company has taken over the stakes in Tube Lines formerly owned by the UK contractors Amey and Jarvis.

A report in March from the Commons Public Accounts Committee criticised the manner in which the Tube contracts had been awarded through a public- private partnership, saying this had already cost taxpayers £1bn in fees and higher financing charges.

But Mr Morgan said the MPs" report had ignored all the benefits delivered by the PPP. Investment in the Underground is now three times higher than before Tube Lines took over in January 2003, while there has been a 30 per cent decline in the cost of track renewals and a 40 to 50 per cent increase in the amount of track being replaced. Escalators, meanwhile, are being replaced in 10 or 11 weeks " less than half the time it used to take.

Mr Morgan"s counterpart at Metronet, the consortium selected to take over the rest of the Tube network, was fired last month. John Weight was removed because of Metronet"s "unacceptable" performance levels and delays to its investment programme.

[spsmiler]

I had better be careful,

suffice to say that as a British taxpaeyer I can think of better places for my money than a private contractor's sharedholder's pockets.

Simon

[tommygunn]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid167/p6e40479461bab38ffcb75ba40b4e3b20/f42f781c.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid168/pcbbea012b3484d6e180628902421cddb/f42cc37c.jpg[/IMG]
Tube being built

[superchan7]

Anyone have pics of the very first trains that ran on the Underground?

[tommygunn]

Steam trainshttp://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid168/p7998e1e16c18a5fbe524d938c6450a7d/f42b8057.jpg[/IMG]
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid168/p7adc6a140e6a247c20292f4cd6445e72/f42b805a.jpg[/IMG]
electric trainshttp://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid168/p1049793c9986a25f546a028cf703e5c6/f42b8058.jpg[/IMG] http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid168/p40a8e64cae5a74e1a80050f19b0b4dab/f42b7fd3.jpg[/IMG] http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid168/pff92fac7154a2841dceb0d7d48a519f4/f42b7fce.jpg[/IMG] http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid168/p015c61401f2adf52e76eab49fa169d7d/f42b7fd0.jpg[/IMG]
"London is the mother of all the worlds metro systems"

[Englishman]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid168/p7adc6a140e6a247c20292f4cd6445e72/f42b805a.jpg Cool picture

[nick_taylor]

Thats inbetween Barbican and Kings Cross I believe - the road is the top level, the Underground services the level below and the bottom level Thameslink.....I think!

[Englishman]

Sounds realistic enough.

[TVS]

You're making me feel homesicknow

[hkskyline]

Tube passengers increase by 3%
By ROGER BLITZ
18 May 2005
Financial Times

A record 976m passenger journeys were made on the London Underground in the 12 months to April, up 3 per cent on the previous year, LU said yesterday.

LU carried out 95.3 per cent of its scheduled services, its best performance for seven years. It claimed most of the improvement was the result of LU responsibilities, such as the number of train services it operates and reductions in delays.

Tim O'Toole, LU managing director, used the figures to renew pressure on Tubelines and Metronet, the infrastructure companies responsible for Tube maintenance.

"Too many passengers still suffer too many delays as a result of train, track or signal failures. We continue to demand improvements from Metronet and Tube Lines . . .," Mr O'Toole said. " . . . Itis essential they deliver the better maintenance, new trains, renewed stations and line upgrades promised to Tube passengers, on time and on budget."

Roger Blitz

[Tubeman]

Thats inbetween Barbican and Kings Cross I believe - the road is the top level, the Underground services the level below and the bottom level Thameslink.....I think!

Its just West of Farringdon where the Thameslink dives under the Met / H&C / Circle Lines. The two pairs of tracks used to cross each other on the level originally, when it was known as the "Ray Street Gridiron". The arrangement was eliminated by the flyunder to stop all the delays the level crossing inevitably caused. I think the road crossing above it all is Ray Street.

There is an even more interesting arrangement on the now goods-only GWR Brentford Branch near Southall, where from the lowest upwards it goes railway-canal-road, all crossing each other at the same point.

http://www.mike-stevens.co.uk/metrocuts/gjc/pix/threebridges2.jpg

[eddyk]

http://web.mit.edu/lipoff/www/england/London/Clockwork%20Yellow.jpg
Tube randomness

[hkskyline]

London Underground to offer mobile phone service in all tube stations by 2008
31 May 2005

LONDON (AP) - Passengers waiting to board trains in the world's oldest subway system should be able to use their mobile phones -- and maybe ever surf the Web -- at all stations by summer 2008, officials said Tuesday.

London Underground announced that 70 companies have expressed interest in providing mobile phone service and new technologies, such as digital radio and wireless Internet, in the city's 275 Tube stations. Service in the tunnels and on the trains may be introduced later.

"What we are expecting is that if you are currently able to use your mobile phone above ground, you will be able to use your phone below ground, on the concourse, platform and passageways," said Peter MacLellan, a London Underground spokesman.

The 70 companies now have three months to submit specific proposals. London Underground plans to do a trial run of mobile phone reception at a central London station in 2006 before awarding the contract in late 2007.

Because the companies will propose which services to offer and how to do it, London Underground would not give a cost estimate for the project, although one industry analyst said it would be in the range of one billion pounds (US$1.8 billion, euro1.5 billion).

London Underground plans to reinvest this money for Tube improvements, and the companies that win the contract will pay the cost of providing the services.

Many of the world's subway systems already offer some mobile phone reception underground, including Washington, Berlin and Hong Kong.

"Other networks that have mobile phone provision are much newer than the London Underground," MacLellan said. "The London Underground is the oldest in the world therefore presents greater environmental and physical challenges that others don't need to face."

More than half of London's Tube stations already get mobile phone reception because they are either above ground or close to the surface.

[JapanVisitor]

Really enjoyed the pictures of the tube as an ex-pat Londoner, as an Arsenal fan you must enjoy the station at Arsenal which has a great exterior.

[edubejar]

London Tube rocks!

[Rachmaninov]

On the other hand... :P Delays and everything happens frequently

[Tubeman]

Really enjoyed the pictures of the tube as an ex-pat Londoner, as an Arsenal fan you must enjoy the station at Arsenal which has a great exterior.

http://www.londonstation.com/Photographs/Arsenal.jpg

:yes:

Its really quite unusually located for a Tube station; its on a residential street some way away from the nearest main road... In fact its one of very few tube stations not served by any bus route. I love the way its just "plonked" in the middle of a terrace of houses.

[Tubeman]

On the other hand... :P Delays and everything happens frequently

Its improving, and plus its much more complex and old than the Hong Kong system, for example, and so is inherantly more prone to delays.

[hkskyline]

Tube repair delays 'may cost £14m'
21 June 2005
Evening Standard

Delays in modernising the London Underground could cost Tube contractor Metronet £14 million, it has emerged.

Metronet has set aside the cash to cover the financial impact of the potential late delivery of station improvements, Metronet shareholder Atkins said in its own results today.

The Metronet consortium, responsible for maintaining and modernising nine London Underground lines, said it was on schedule to complete on time only 16 station refurbishments out of a total of 26 that it is contracted to finish by next March.

[londonindyboy]

canary wharf station

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9164/sgcanarywharftubestation2vz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7262/englandlondoncanarywharfunderg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/6171/canarywharfescalators5pl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9246/0myphotographslondondocklandsc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/562/canadasquarecanarywharfdlrroof.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img347.imageshack.us/img347/8681/canary20wharf2zu.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[londonindyboy]

http://img347.imageshack.us/img347/9366/photo50ze.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[RafflesCity]

British Airways promotional ads in Singapore, taken last month

Gloucester Rd tube station is featured

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4545/pic0313714rv.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/7950/pic0313814lw.jpg

pic by babystan03

[londonindyboy]

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/6071/green19ty.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/3104/utrain23jf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[londonindyboy]

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7910/green37yy.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[londonindyboy]

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6095/canary13wd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9375/green29ay.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7927/utrain14ca.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[londonindyboy]

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6882/bermondseyplatform4aq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[hkskyline]

A review paints drab picture of the Tube
Heather Timmons
29 July 2005
International Herald Tribune

Is the world's oldest subway system, the London Underground, facing a crisis? The threats of terrorism are not the only problem. Multibillion-dollar renewal projects on the 142-year-old system are behind schedule and over budget, including an overhaul of the radio transmission network, a government official said. And one union said safety concerns were not being resolved, despite equipment malfunctions during the attacks this month. The union threatened to strike. The Underground, also known as the Tube, is the major artery for London, which is not only Britain's capital and largest city but also Europe's financial center. On average, it moves three million passengers a day. The system suffered from decades of underinvestment when it was owned by the government. But a plan in the late 1990s was supposed to put an end to the lack of money.

The British government farmed out control of infrastructure for the system to companies like Balfour Beatty and Bombardier, and to Motorola, which pledged to spend l16 billion, or about $28 billion, over 30 years to repair it. A group called London Underground, part of the government-controlled group Transport For London, is responsible for the drivers and most other employees. The first official full review of the process, released Wednesday, painted a bleak picture of privatization.

Corporate shareholders are earning "significant sums of money," while the conglomerates responsible for maintaining the lines and trains are not delivering the improvements they have promised, according to a report written by the managing director of London Underground, Tim O'Toole. Just two years after the maintenance privatization contracts were granted, "many of the renewal projects" were already behind schedule, O'Toole said. "We are paying a premium price for improvements, but performance to date has not been good enough." The review came at a dark time for the Underground. Passenger numbers have dropped since the attacks July 7, officials said without giving specifics. The police have warned of more attacks, and many former passengers now ride bicycles to work or take a boat on the Thames.

The unions' officials emerged upset from a meeting with officials from the London Underground. Since the attacks July 7, they have been asking for, among other things, trains with radios that work and breathing apparatus. "We were concerned to hear suggestions that funding for improved security would have to depend solely on passenger revenue, especially as we were told that revenue was heading south following the recent bombing attacks," said Bob Crow, general secretary of RMT, formerly the Rail, Maritime and Transport Union. The union's leaders plan to meet Friday to discuss a strike. Drivers of Underground trains, who are not allowed to talk to the news media directly, have shared tales of chaos and confusion with their union representative. One was held at gunpoint at the Stockwell station, where a Brazilian electrician was killed Friday by police officers who did not recognize his uniform. The old-style blue-checked uniforms, which look like some worn by employees at some British grocery stores and pubs, are being phased out. Another driver at the station did not get instructions to evacuate his passengers immediately, and his radio and mayday signal did not work, said Steve Grant of the transport union Aslef. The driver wound up driving his train a stop farther south, after evacuating the carriages himself, because all the ground staff members were already out of the station, Grant said. When he arrived at the next station in his empty train and exited it, he was stopped by a police officer, who said he should not be there because the place was being searched for chemicals, Grant said.

Some of these problems may be linked to the complicated privatization system, critics say. The Underground lines and infrastructure are maintained by two conglomerates: Tube Lines, which is owned by Amey and Bechtel, and Metronet, owned by Atkins, Balfour Beatty, Bombardier, EDF Energy and RWE Thames Water. Engineering overruns for projects managed by these groups have increased 35 percent from the year before, the London Underground said. Motorola and the communication companies Racal Translink and Fluor Daniel were given a l1.2 billion contract in 1999 to replace and manage the communications system, which is months behind, London Underground officials said. "We're going to have to put more money into it," said a spokesman for the London Underground, Stephen Webb.

[hkskyline]

London seeks new transport boss after Kiley quits

LONDON, Nov 25 (Reuters) - Britain's capital began looking for a new transport supremo on Friday after Bob Kiley, the ex CIA man who oversaw the introduction of congestion charging and extra buses, quit unexpectedly.

The Transport for London (TfL) Commissioner gave no reasons as to why he was leaving the high profile job although several newspapers said his early departure was because of a row.

"It has been a privilege to serve...TfL has more than proved it can deliver since it was formed five years ago," Kiley said in a short statement.

The Times newspaper said Kiley, who was expected to stay on until 2008, had quit after clashing with a fellow director and failing to get support from Mayor Ken Livingstone.

The resignation of 70-year old Kiley was because he had argued with Livingstone, the Independent said, while the Guardian reported the American had lost a power struggle with the mayor.

Kiley, a former New York subway boss credited with revamping that crime-ridden network, was brought in by Livingstone to sort out London's extensive, but ageing transport infrastructure which carries millions of passengers every day.

Following his appointment in 2001, Kiley became one of Livingstone's staunchest and most vocal allies in his battle to oppose government plans to involve private firms in modernising the system.

Livingstone said Kiley, who will stand down at the end of January 2006, will continue to act as the mayor's transport advisor.

"Bob has overseen the transformation of London's bus service, with two million more bus journeys each day, introduced the world's largest congestion charging scheme and begun the largest investment programme in London's transport system since the Second World War," the mayor said in a statement.

Roger Evans, the Conservative transport spokesman in the London Assembly said he wanted to know why Kiley was leaving.

"We always had serious concerns about Bob Kiley's value for money -- after all he was one of the highest paid public sector bureaucrats in the world. However, we need to know specifically why he quit."

[spsmiler]

Hi all,

as you have seen, Bob Kiley is leaving us in London.

below is a copy of his bio as taken from the TfL website a few years ago - although more recently they have condensed this down to far less information (leaving out the really interesting stuff). As you will see, whilst at the CIA he was more than just a small time operative.

btw, I question whether he actually left the CIA, (can people "leave" that sort of organisation?) or whether he has kept in contact, perhaps for intelligence reasons. His being a member of the Council on Foreign Relations speaks volumes too; I assume he is also a member of the famed Bilderberg Group, although because of a media blackout few ordinary mortals even know that secretive organisation exists.

I would suggest that the timing of his leaving is not unconnected with other events which I wont discuss here, and that there is much more to the publicly stated "disagreement" which caused him to resign than we are being told.

Simon
------------

Prior to his appointment as Commissioner of Transport for London in January 2001, Robert Kiley served as President and Chief Executive Officer of the New York City Partnership. The Partnership, the city's leading business and civic organisation, improves the city's economic climate through advocacy and public-private initiatives in education, job creation, affordable housing, and neighbourhood development. Its membership reflects the impressive breadth of the city's private, non-profit and civic leadership.

From 1991 to 1994 he was President of Fischbach Corporation, a major New York-based construction and engineering company, and in 1994 became its Chairman until assuming his position at the New York City Partnership in 1995.

From 1983 until 1990, he was Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA). At the MTA he was responsible for five transportation agencies serving the New York Metropolitan Region where he directed the rebuilding of New York's public transportation system and restructured its management. He led successful efforts to obtain more than $16 billion from the New York State legislature for capital improvements to the city's subways and buses, commuter railroads, tunnels and bridges in the MTA region.

Robert Kiley has consulted with corporations and public agencies at the Management Analysis Center (now Cap Gemini) then headquartered in Cambridge, Massachusetts. In the 1970s he was Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority in Boston and served as Deputy Mayor of the City of Boston.

Early in his career, he was with the CIA, where he served as Manager of Intelligence Operations and then as Executive Assistant to the Director.

Robert Kiley is a Member of the Council on Foreign Relations, Board Member of the Salzburg International Seminar, the American Repertory Theater, MONY Group Inc, the Princeton Review Inc and Edison Schools, Inc. He is also on the Advisory Board of the Harvard University Center for State and Local Government.

A Magna Cum Laude graduate of the University of Notre Dame, Indiana, USA, Robert Kiley and his wife Rona now live in London.

[redstone]

Can someone please enlighten me, how were the first underground lines/ stations in London built?

Like how did they manage to tunnel under buildings?

[spsmiler]

Can someone please enlighten me, how were the first underground lines/ stations in London built?

Like how did they manage to tunnel under buildings?

They dug up a street with a deep tranch, and after building the tunnel side walls they covered it over, reinstating the street.

deep level tubes were built by tunnelling machine and installing a circle of cast iron metal pieces to keep the tunnels shape.

Since they were mostly digging through clay the tunnels would kep their shape betwen digging and installing the cast iron segments.

Hope this helps, sorry, itsd very brief but I must stop on the web for now - try asking Tubeman on his thread..

Simon

[hkskyline]

Cut and cover is still a popular way of building subways today, over a hundred years after the first subways opened.

[Tubeman]

Cut and cover is still a popular way of building subways today, over a hundred years after the first subways opened.

Its possible in cities with broad streets like Paris or New York, but impossible in cities like London where virtually all roads are at best only 2 carriageways wide. It is by far the cheapest and quickest method of tunnelling.

[redstone]

So the very first tunnels were built under existing streets? :?

[AG]

A lot of cut and cover tunnels were built to follow the streets, but sometimes buildings were torn down to make way for the shallow tunnels as they did in London. Buildings were then rebuilt above the shallow tunnels. Even more odd is that there are some facades around the city above these tunnels that have no building behind them. They simply cover up an above ground opening where the smoke from the steam trains escaped before electric trains were introduced.

[Tubeman]

A lot of cut and cover tunnels were built to follow the streets, but sometimes buildings were torn down to make way for the shallow tunnels as they did in London. Buildings were then rebuilt above the shallow tunnels. Even more odd is that there are some facades around the city above these tunnels that have no building behind them. They simply cover up an above ground opening where the smoke from the steam trains escaped before electric trains were introduced.

Indeed, 23 / 24 Leinster Gardens in Bayswater has houses complete with painted on front doors and house numbers which is in fact just a wall with the railway behind!

http://underground-history.co.uk/images/leinst01.jpg

You should be able to just about make out the uniformly grey painted windows


This is what you would find if you were to open the front door (if there was one!)

http://underground-history.co.uk/images/leinst02.jpg

http://underground-history.co.uk/images/leinst03.jpg

[Tubeman]

So the very first tunnels were built under existing streets? :?

Mostly, but as AG said some of the 'Cut & Cover' lines had no choice but to charge through neighbourhoods destroying everything in their path.

Often, the construction of a line was tied in with a new roadway above instead of following an existing one. Examples of this is the ambitious project to reclaim part of the Thames foreshore and build The Embankment, in-filling the recalimed land behind. This accounted for the District & Circle Lines between Westminster and Blackfriars and the new roadway ('The Embankment') above. The Victorians were almost arrogant in their ambition... In an era of essentially pure navvy power the concept of pushing back the Thames and building a railway along the river bed wasn't alien to them, they just got on and built it.

Often the construction of a new 'Cut & Cover' railway was a good excuse for a bit of old-fashioned 'Slum Clearance'. Between King's Cross and Farringdon (Street) the Metropolitan railway was built largely along the course of the then exposed River Fleet. The River was home to some of the worst 'Dickensian' slums in London, with ramshackle shanty homes backing onto the foetid river which became an open sewer. The railway cut a swathe through the slums, culverted the river (such that there is now no trace of it) and then built a new roadway above (Farringdon Road) so that where once was a huge slum and open sewer there now is a roadway and underground railway.

[Justme]

Apparently, 23 / 24 Leinster Gardens is a joke played to new postmen or couriers when they start the route. They are given something to deliver to the address, but when they get there, they can't find the letterbox, or no one answers the door.

[nick_taylor]

Apparently, 23 / 24 Leinster Gardens is a joke played to new postmen or couriers when they start the route. They are given something to deliver to the address, but when they get there, they can't find the letterbox, or no one answers the door.:laugh:

[hkskyline]

Tube contractor criticises tests for Jubilee Line
Andrew Clark, Transport correspondent
31 January 2006
The Guardian

One of London's busiest underground lines has enjoyed a tangible benefit from the government's controversial public -private partnership with the completion of a pounds 150m programme to attach an extra carriage to every train on the Jubilee Line.

But the head of the consortium which delivered the improvement yesterday spoke of his frustration that stringent health and safety concerns had prolonged the project. At a ceremony to mark the completion of the programme, Terry Morgan, chief executive of Tube Lines, complained that the company was required to lengthen every train at exactly the same time, rather than running a "mixed fleet" of six and seven carriages.

The requirement was imposed because of concerns that passengers might become confused and fall on to the track while attempting to board a seventh carriage on trains which only had six.

"I personally never quite understood why we couldn't run a mixed fleet," said Mr Morgan, who said that this could have prevented a five-day closure of the line at the end of December. "If we had been able to do that, it would have caused less disruption in December." As a further precaution, Tube Lines was required to run each of the 59 trains along the length of the Jubilee Line five times without anybody on board, a distance of 150km, to prove that the extra carriage was safe.

A spokeswoman for the Health and Safety Executive yesterday said 150km of tests were "appropriate" for new rolling stock and pointed out that on the east coast mainline, trains had to run for 1,000 fault-free miles before entering service.

[nick_taylor]

^^ I wonder how that compares to safety tests around the world.

[Justme]

^^ I wonder how that compares to safety tests around the world.

I know that Health and Safety are taken to far stricter levels in the U.K. than in Germany. It's almost a new concept here.

I have seen, and constantly see so many examples of unbelievable levels of poor safety from companies in Frankfurt I have started to wonder if there are any laws here.

... walking past a building site on a pedestrian sidewalk which had no barriers around it, when builders started knocking out the glass windows on the 5th floor onto the footpath below. Glass falling all around me, it was seriously dangerous, not to mention all the broken glass on the road. Duh.

... A crane lifting the giant Esprit sign onto the top floor of a major shop on the Zeil, Frankfurt's busiest shopping street, with no barriers so shoppers walked underneath the sign as it was being lifted - Each letter was over a story and a half high, and must have weighted tonnes, if one of them fell... All they had to to was put barriers around the crane and between the crane and the building... but duh.

... The other day I was walking up the steps in the Hauptbahnhof (central station) from the U-bahn. However, cleaners were high pressure spraying the steps with soapy water and didn't bother to put a barrier up. The steps were incredibly slippery. If someone from above had gone off the train and was running to catch an S-bahn or U-bahn and took the steps they would have made a nasty fall. How hard is it to barrier...? Duh.

It's like this on a daily basis here, so I can only presume that the safety tests on the train system is also as slack.

That said, the one about not have mixed 6 car and 7 car trains is totally over the top. There are levels that define good safety practice and fear of law suits - I suppose that's what it all comes down to. We have mixed length trains here all the time, and people don't walk along going "hummm, de humm, la-de-da, let's open this door I can not see, and walk through to the carriage that isn't in front of me, despite the fact I see the end of the train a few yards up... Opps, I seem to have fallen on 400Volts. Ouch, that hurts. la-de-da.. "

[JDRS]

The requirement was imposed because of concerns that passengers might become confused and fall on to the track while attempting to board a seventh carriage on trains which only had six.

:rofl:

[redstone]

Then do not open the platform doors after the sixth carriage.. :lol:

[hkskyline]

Going underground:
Could we chart the branches and connections of 100 years of music using the London Underground map?
Dorian Lynskey explains how a box of coloured crayons and a lot of swearing helped
3 February 2006
The Guardian

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/culturevulture/archives/tubemap3.jpg (http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2006/02/02/underground5.pdf)
Click above to download fullversion in PDF

It seems like a deeply implausible project: to plot the history of 20th century music on the London Underground map devised by Harry Beck in 1933. Artist Simon Patterson transformed the tube map into a constellation of famous names in his 1992 work The Great Bear, but he didn't have to make them all link up. It is, after all, a tall order to find a saint who was also a comedian. But for this one to work every interchange had to be logical in the context of musical history, an unlikely prospect.

I started out with a packet of coloured crayons, four sheets of A4 taped together and a big box of doubt, but the different character of each line quickly lent itself to a certain genre. Pop intersects with everything else, so that had to be the Circle Line; classical music for the most part occupies its own sphere, which made it perfect for the Docklands Light Railway. There were a couple of false starts but by the end of one afternoon I had assigned genres to almost all the lines and thrashed out most of the major intersections. The key stations naturally went to the most eclectic artists, not necessarily the most important: the Beatles may be more significant than Beck but even their most devoted fan must admit that they never tried rapping.

The system thus in place, the next couple of days were devoted to writing names in, scribbling them out (sorry, Doug E Fresh and Lynyrd Skynyrd), agonising over certain omissions, asking classical music critic Tom Service for invaluable help with the DLR, and swearing just a little bit. Amazingly, there were no calamitous blind alleys. It just seemed to make sense.

I tried as far as possible to be objective. Some bands I cannot stand are in here, while some that I love dearly aren't. I also followed chronology wherever the path of the line allowed it. Each branch line represents a sub-genre: rock sprouts off into grunge and psychedelia when it reaches South-West London; hip-hop diverges, north of Camden, into old school and New York rap. If I was really lucky, the band name echoed the original station name: Highbury & Islington became Sly & the Family Stone.

Pedants, of course, will find flaws. Musical influences are so labyrinthine that any simple equation will be imperfect. Where, for example, does pop stop and rock begin? How can you draw a decisive line between soul and funk? These are problems that have plagued record shop proprietors for decades and they're not going to be solved here. But I think all of these choices are justifiable given the limitations of the form.

Other people will quibble with omissions - it's a shame, for example, that the Circle Line constantly runs in tandem with either the District or Metropolitan lines, thus leaving no room for pure pop acts such as Kylie Minogue and the Pet Shop Boys. I should also point out that, to keep my head from exploding, I limited the remit to western, predominately Anglo-American music. Then there are those changes necessitated by London Underground's understandable sensitivity to explosive references: arrividerci, Massive Attack. For some reason, they also took exception to the late rapper Ol' Dirty Bastard.

But this is not some definitive history of music. It's an experiment to see if one intricate network can be overlaid on a completely different one. The elegance and logic of Harry Beck's design - its combination of bustling intersections, sprawling tributaries, long, slanting tangents and abrupt dead ends, all sucked into the overturned wine bottle of the Circle Line - seems to spark other connections and appeal to the brain's innate desire for patterning and structure. Plus it's fun, as any piece of music journalism created with coloured crayons should be. I hope you like it.

Tell us what you think of the map at www.guardian.co.uk/arts Buy the map at www.ltmuseumshop.co.uk Special thanks to Chris Townsend at Transport for London and Andrew Jones at London Underground.

[Bitxofo]

^^Original and nice idea.^^
:wink2:
ThankS
;)

[JDRS]

From BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4685630.stm)

Thousands join Tube strike vote

Thousands more Tube workers are to be balloted on strikes in a continuing row over industrial relations.

A total of 1,500 train drivers have already voted on the issue with the result due on Thursday.

A further 5,000 workers, including signallers and station staff, will now be joining the vote, the Rail, Maritime and Transport Union (RMT) said.

London Underground (LU) said: "There is no more justification for this ballot than the last one."

"Playground tactics"

Mike Brown, of LU, said the company was committed to consultation with its employees and trade unions "using our agreed procedures".

The RMT claims LU has undermined industrial relations "right across the company".

But Roger Evans, chairman of the London Assembly Transport Committee, said a strike would be unnecessary and "totally out of order".

He said the unions were "resorting to bullying tactics to achieve their goals" and called for them to stop.

'Ignoring procedures'

RMT General Secretary Bob Crow said that the issues affecting train operators still had to be resolved.

Train drivers belonging to the RMT and Aslef unions have been voting over issues including policy on signals passed at danger, health and safety, harassment and discipline.

Mr Crow said the RMT executive had now agreed to ballot all other Tube members.

He said that LU was "ignoring its own procedures and trying to impose changes and bypass its established negotiating machinery".

[andysimo123]

Tubeman I think I have just seen you on the TV. On that program called tube, the one where that train breaks down?

[Tubeman]

Tubeman I think I have just seen you on the TV. On that program called tube, the one where that train breaks down?

:yes:

[Tubeman]

Did I match my online persona?

[andysimo123]

Did I match my online persona?
Well you seemed petty normal compared to some of the others on the program. There was this women with her tits hanging on the floor and this other guy who looked like someone had tugged on his balls for a week.

Also I recommend you stick an ad on my site, to sell more copys of your book. Am getting like 7-8,000 hits a week and its only been online two weeks.

[hkskyline]

Children to get free rides on London subways

LONDON, March 9, 2006 (AFP) - Children under the age of 11 will be able to ride London's Undergound subway system and the Docklands Light Railway for free from April 2, Mayor Ken Livingstone announced Thursday.

The free rides will be available to youngsters accompanied by an adult from 9:30 am on weekdays and all day on weekend and public holidays, said Livingstone, who oversees public transport policy.

Under-16s have been able to travel for free on Londons buses and trams since September last year, under a scheme that will be extended to under-18s in full-time education this September.

"Free Tube travel for under-11s will help make visiting Londons many attractions more affordable, widen the horizons of young Londoners and encourage the next generation to use public transport as much as possible," the mayor said.

[sfgadv02]

Yea, they have free rides for NYC student that attends high school and below.

[Tubeman]

Children to get free rides on London subways

LONDON, March 9, 2006 (AFP) - Children under the age of 11 will be able to ride London's Undergound subway system and the Docklands Light Railway for free from April 2, Mayor Ken Livingstone announced Thursday.

The free rides will be available to youngsters accompanied by an adult from 9:30 am on weekdays and all day on weekend and public holidays, said Livingstone, who oversees public transport policy.

Under-16s have been able to travel for free on Londons buses and trams since September last year, under a scheme that will be extended to under-18s in full-time education this September.

"Free Tube travel for under-11s will help make visiting Londons many attractions more affordable, widen the horizons of young Londoners and encourage the next generation to use public transport as much as possible," the mayor said.

Not quite as good for the little darlings as the headline implies, as it would be of no use to schoolchildren, but I think its good as it should encourage off-peak and weekend usership. In fact, this would probably make money as an initiative by coaxing more families onto the tubes at weekends and during school holidays.

[chico_pastor]

For me london Undergound is one of the world's metro systems with more character...It has an incredible history and for me, it's really a pleasure going to London just to see LU.
Here's a picture that I've taken on the 22/03/2005 at Green Park station(at nighT)
http://jpsperafita.com.sapo.pt/P3210031.JPG

[UD2]

ok I've never been to London

but from these pictures, the seating inside the trains seem unneedingly comfortable.

Is that the case systemwide? how does that do for maintiance?

[Tubeman]

ok I've never been to London

but from these pictures, the seating inside the trains seem unneedingly comfortable.

Is that the case systemwide? how does that do for maintiance?

Well I don't think anyone's complaining! "Excuse me, my seat is too comfortable!"

All trains have soft seats; some older stocks have sprung seats like a sofa, newer stocks have foam padding under the fabric.

I'd actually like to suppose its cheaper to maintain, because hard plastic seats are crying out to be tagged or scratched with graffiti, therefore they need to be cleaned much more often.

The fabric ('moquette') is quite clever in that the more heavily used it is the brighter and 'cleaner' it looks, as the fibres get compacted down it becomes shinier.

[hkskyline]

Some subway lines close
Bloomberg
1 April 2006

The Waterloo & City line on the London Underground will close down for five months starting Saturday for construction work, forcing 40,000 daily travelers to find alternative routes.

The 107-year-old line will get new track, signal and security equipment, said Transport for London. The line is scheduled to reopen Sept. 1.

Partial shutdowns will also begin on weekends this month on the Northern and Central lines. Partial closures will affect the Victoria line from April 8 to 17 and the Piccadilly line starting in May.

[sweek]

I saw it on BBC London News yesterday, it's quite impressive to see them lift up train carriages.

[Tubeman]

I got a shock yesterday afternoon... I was in the car with my Sister waiting at lights to cross the A4 in Chsiwick and a Waterloo & City Line carriage went past on a low-loader!

[nick_taylor]

Some subway lines close
Bloomberg
1 April 2006

The Waterloo & City line on the London Underground will close down for five months starting Saturday for construction work, forcing 40,000 daily travelers to find alternative routes.

The 107-year-old line will get new track, signal and security equipment, said Transport for London. The line is scheduled to reopen Sept. 1.

Partial shutdowns will also begin on weekends this month on the Northern and Central lines. Partial closures will affect the Victoria line from April 8 to 17 and the Piccadilly line starting in May.Its unfortunate - but it has to be done now rather than after an accident or when service levels get seriously bad.

[wwwsam]

Ugly, very uncomfortable inside.

[El_Greco]

^ What about outside?

[Tubeman]

Ugly, very uncomfortable inside.

Who or what are you referring to?

[CharlieP]

^ What about outside?

Very uncomfortable, and not to be recommended on the Yerkes lines :D

[hkskyline]

Mayor's Envy as Shanghai Metro Outstrips Tube
12 April 2006
The Evening Standard

LONDON'S Tube leaders today visited the world's fastest-growing underground system - and admitted they were jealous at its rate of progress, writes Ross Lydall.

Mayor Ken Livingstone and London Underground managing director Tim O'Toole travelled on the Shanghai metro, which will be the world's biggest in 2012.

Opened in 1994, it is used by three million passengers a day, a million fewer than London. It is a quarter the size of the Tube, but with six lines under construction it will match London by 2010 and overtake it in 2012.

Improvements to London's Tube will take 30 years under the £20 billion public-private partnership. The Mayor blamed an overcomplicated planning process and his difficulty in raising cash for the slower progress.

He said: 'I come here with the tinge of regret. Only a few years ago Shanghai embarked on this construction. In five years it will have surpassed the London Underground, constructed over a century ago. That is a great achievement.' Mr O'Toole, in Shanghai with the Mayor on a cultural exchange, said that in the next six years London would only be able to upgrade signalling on two of 12 lines.

Meanwhile, Poems on the Underground is moving to the Shanghai metro, with commuters able to enjoy work by poets including Blake and Wordsworth.

[onetwothree]

Shanghai Metro will become one of the worlds biggest (like top 3 or something?) underground systems in the world in only 16 years from opening! Holy cow!

[Jue]

It was from sheer necessity though. Shanghai has twice the population of London, living in less land area. Getting around by bus is absolutely awful; I often make better time on foot during rush hour.

About London: in what way is the approval process for Tube upgrades difficult? Is is just a NIMBY attitude to construction, or does it go much further than that?

[Insignia]

well Shanghai is ahead of many British cities...

[Jue]

well Shanghai is ahead of many British cities...
Not in air pollution, water quality, public services, and above all, civility. ;)

[hkskyline]

Fire Delays Train Commuters in London
26 June 2006

LONDON (AP) - Fire broke out Monday at a construction site near one of London's main railway stations, disrupting travel for thousands of commuters, officials said.

King's Cross station was evacuated at about 11 a.m. and closed for the rest of the day. according to Network Rail. Scores of commuter train services were disrupted, and long-distance trains to London were stopping at Peterborough, 75 miles north of the capital.

King's Cross is used by some 60,000 passengers a day.

London's Fire Brigade said it had set up a 200-yard cordon around the fire because of fears a gas canister at the site might explode. More than 630 people were evacuated from their homes as 20 firefighters battled the blaze.

Fire officials said one person had been taken to a hospital with burns.

[Tubeman]

^
Nothing to do with London Underground... It was only the high-level platforms of the Mainline station that were affected. Tube services continued stopping as normal.

There was a fire on top of the core of an under construction building off York Way which heated some propane cannisters white hot, because of this a 200m exclusion zone had to be imposed as they were 8 stories up, this included the signalling centre for Kings Cross to Stevenage on the GNER Mainline plus the approach tracks, hence no service.

[hkskyline]

Workers on track to complete refurbishment of network's shortest route.
By ROBERT WRIGHT
27 June 2006
Financial Times

In a tunnel underneath the south bank of the River Thames, a 30-strong gang of men in hard hats and high-visibility vests works in semi-darkness, cramped up against each other over a newly laid piece of railway track, writes Robert Wright.

The men are pouring concrete to hold the track in place once it is again in use carrying the nearly 10m passengers a year who use the Waterloo & City line, the London Underground's shortest route, between Waterloo station and the City of London.

Their work is part of the highest-profile project so far carried out by Metronet - the replacement of the track in the 2 1/2-mile tunnels between Waterloo and Bank stations in a project costing Pounds 40m. The project marks the first time that London Underground has allowed a lengthy closure of a line to let refurbishment work proceed more quickly. The line closed on April 1 and is due to reopen on September 1.

The approach was a sensible one for the Waterloo & City line, says Andrew Lezala, chief executive of Metronet. The closure made it possible to send away the line's five trains for refurbishment. It is also easier to carry out work in one long blockade of a line than in hundreds of stages during the short times trains are stopped at night. The work is still far from straightforward, however.

Darren Self, the manager in charge of trackwork for the line refurbishment, says the work is very labour-intensive. "We've tried to mechanise it as much as we can," he says. "But you can't get away from the fact it's a very confined space and it's impossible to mechanise the work much more."

From 2007, the work, combined with new computer systems, should allow London Underground to run up to 25 per cent more trains at busy times than at present, while the journey will immediately be faster and smoother. Yet, given Metronet's recent problems, the focus will be on whether work is completed on time.

Mr Lezala says a big risk remains the line's signalling system, which will not be reinstalled and tested until just before reopening. However, early problems with breaking up the concrete under the old track have been overcome.

[Tubeman]

The project marks the first time that London Underground has allowed a lengthy closure of a line to let refurbishment work proceed more quickly.

So the East London Line being closed from 1995-1998 was our imagination? :|

[Saltwater_London]

Shanghai Metro will become one of the worlds biggest (like top 3 or something?) underground systems in the world in only 16 years from opening! Holy cow!

Cheap Chinese labour, and paying contractors in CNY instead of GBP does make a difference! If London could get away with paying its workers those amounts every week, we'd triple the number of our tube lines in sixteen years too!

[paw25694]

those pictures make me wanna go back 2 london... hehe :)

[city_thing]

Shanghai will never be better than London. As a londoner, nowhere does underground trains better than my fair city :) -Shanghai just wont have the history nor substance that London's does.

[hkskyline]

Memorial to London transit bombing victims to be built in Hyde Park
15 February 2007

LONDON (AP) - A permanent memorial to victims of the 2005 bombings of three London subway trains and a bus will be built in the city's Hyde Park, the government said Thursday.

Culture Secretary Tessa Jowell said the 142 hectare (350 acre) park -- already home to a memorial to Princess Diana -- had been chosen because of its "prominence, history and central London location."

In the July 7, 2005 attacks, four suicide bombers killed 52 commuters and wounded 700 during the capital's morning rush hour.

The government had initially planned to build a monument to mark the attacks at Tavistock Square -- where one of the explosions ripped through a double-decker bus, killing 13 passengers.

A fund of one million pounds (US$1.95 million; euro1.49 million) has been set aside to fund the memorial to those killed and injured.

Jowell called the bombings "the worst terrorist atrocity London has ever seen."

"A permanent memorial will provide a dignified and tranquil space for their friends and families -- and the country -- to remember them," she said in a statement.

The government is inviting designers and landscape architects to submit proposals for the site, in the park's Lovers' Walk.

A group of representing the victims' families said in a statement it would ensure "a suitable and fitting memorial is created to honor the lives of our loved ones."

[Tubeman]

Personally I think Tavistock Square would have been more appropriate... You can't move in Hyde Park for various monuments and memorials, whereas Tavistock Square is a beautiful little oasis of peace, and the scene of the most striking image of 7/7 (the #30 bus).

[marrio415]

london beats shanghai anyday cos china is a dump an un-civallised dump with pollution and and crap everywhere.

[Tubeman]

london beats shanghai anyday cos china is a dump an un-civallised dump with pollution and and crap everywhere.

And you've just been brigged, whoever you are

[LosAngelesMetroBoy]

So are they going to be powerwashing the stations in the waterloo-city line as well.... all the underground stations could do with a good cleaning. But thats most public transport systems.

[lasdun]

Well no one can beat us for history, can't say I wouldn't mind some Shanghai size trains and aircon, but the network as I saw it (2003, so lines 1, 2, 3, 5) seemed to be full of problems that will come back to haunt them, no doubt cause by the speed odf work. The stations were two small for the passenger load and the build and design quality seemed really poor. I very much doubt there will be books and books devoted to the network in the 2140's...

[Ricardo Fig]

Hi there!

I am a train spotter in Portugal, and i am going to spend a few days in London, is there any problem os restriction to take a few shots on the subway? Or its tottaly forbidden?

Thanks in advance!

[hkskyline]

I have never had problems taking pictures on the Underground, but don't use flash. It blinds the train drivers.

[Tubeman]

Hi there!

I am a train spotter in Portugal, and i am going to spend a few days in London, is there any problem os restriction to take a few shots on the subway? Or its tottaly forbidden?

Thanks in advance!

Technically you need to apply for a permit, but unless you're carrying around a huge professional-looking camera with a tripod I doubt any staff would stop you and ask to see one.

You might see 'Flash photography is forbidden' signs, the only reason for this is because taking a flash photograph of the front of a train as it enters a platform blinds the driver (they have just been driving through dark tunnels for the past 2 minutes), so this is a definite no-no. You'll probably get a sarcastic announcement from the driver if you do, as a former driver I can assure you its very annoying / distracting.

If you want to take pictures of trains underground, just snap the back of the train as it departs... apart from tail-lights instead of headlights it looks basically the same!

[Ricardo Fig]

Thanks!

I am asking because in Lisbon is highly forbidden to take photos even with a compact-size machine....its absurd and non-sense! If you smoke on the stations, no one says anything, if you take a photo, and a guard sees you, you could be in some trouble..

Its a bit late now to ask for a permit, but if i see any staff in the stations i stop by and ask. No problem about the flash, i hate photos with flash anyway, and i can understand how dangerous can be.

[Tubeman]

Thanks!

I am asking because in Lisbon is highly forbidden to take photos even with a compact-size machine....its absurd and non-sense! If you smoke on the stations, no one says anything, if you take a photo, and a guard sees you, you could be in some trouble..

Its a bit late now to ask for a permit, but if i see any staff in the stations i stop by and ask. No problem about the flash, i hate photos with flash anyway, and i can understand how dangerous can be.

Cool. Enjoy your stay! :cheers:

Is there anything in particular you want to photograph? Do you want any pointers?

[kub86]

Ha, I was too nervous to take a picture...

But I first rid the Underground in January. I was impressed. Very old, lots of delays, some trains were uber crowded, the knightsbridge station was unbelievable (someone told me Harrod's had a sale), and some trains were claustrophobically tiny ---but very colorful lol. But I absolutely loved it!! Jubilee was fun too---although the glass gates sorta took the fun out.

Also, I was surprised at how friendly the workers were. I saw a train operator ask a "hoodlum" looking type teen if he was lost. The lines to get tickets were sooooo long.

[Minato ku]

Of course kub86

In Lyon metro, trains are more modern, cleaner and Lyon metro has one of widest type of subway trains in europe.
But London Tube is more impressive, historic, interesting and it is a lot bigger.
:lol:

[Justme]

Technically you need to apply for a permit, but unless you're carrying around a huge professional-looking camera with a tripod I doubt any staff would stop you and ask to see one.


I've done this a few times and I have to say the efficiency of the film/media department of the London Underground is excellent. As I take my tripod and set everything up, I usually get a station staff to come with me and help clear the area directly around my shoot. But I always feel uncomfortable taking staff away from the daily jobs - I'm sure they're busy enough without having to babysit me taking pictures.
This could never hapen in Frankfurt as most stations seem totally unmanned.


Here's a couple that I don't have up for sale so I can post them here:

http://www.pbase.com/jchambers/image/65384722/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jchambers/image/65382685/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jchambers/image/65382687/original.jpg

[Tubeman]

^^
Excellent photos! :okay:

[sweek]

Great photos there! I'm very interested in seeing some more.

[Tubeman]

I'm very interested in seeing some more.

Yes, me too :)

[Truepioneer]

My favorite station has to be Michael Hopkin's Westminster Station.

http://uk.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geumY3weJFC.wAJy9WBQx./SIG=1330gd39n/EXP=1172574903/**http%3A//www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/0/04/Westminster_tube_station_large.jpg

[Truepioneer]

^Anyone have a pic of it with a working link???

[Tubeman]

http://www.cimage.com/news/casestudies/images/lul/Westminster%20Station.jpg http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/8/80/180px-Westminster_underground.JPG

http://www.crispinhughes.co.uk/photos/westminster.jpg

http://www.artofthestate.co.uk/photos/pglondonwestminstertube2.jpg

http://www.artofthestate.co.uk/photos/pglondonwestminstertube1.jpg

[thainotts]

Here's your picture, True pioneer.

http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/0/04/Westminster_tube_station_large.jpg

[samsonyuen]

It's a great design. But I hated it because I had to transfer from the Jubilee line to District line everyday for work (and back). It was just too many escalators for me! It's amazing how much they've fit in a (relatively) small footprint.

[Bahnsteig4]

Westminster is truly impressive. I visited it in 2004 and my mouth was wiiiide open. ;)

Even my friends who couldn't care less about public transport said they liked it.

[Salif]

^Anyone have a pic of it with a working link???

When that