UPDATE on Skyscraper in Frederikshavn / DENMARK

[arkoh]

Well I happened to stumble over a few Threads on this forum concerning the Project of the proposed Skyscraper in Frederikshavn / Denmark. A few people requested news and new renderings of the building... Thought I just might keep you "uptodate"!

The project is very much still "Proposed"! Nothing has been approved yet... It is up for pre-approval on the 13th of January 2005 (as far as I remember) in the Municipality (especially concerning shadowdiagrams of the impact on the neighborhood!) This means, that If it gets the pre-approval the planning can start in the coming spring, and if everything goes according to plan (Such as the following neighborhood hearing, the selling of the appartements and such... ) will begin construction in the end of 2005 or in the beginning of 2006! (Hopefully ;) )

Just have to correct a few misunderstandings that I have encountered in the threads dealing with the building! The rendering that has been shown has been taken from a newspaper, that properly has the worst layouters I have ever seen, managing to scew the entire building! So the design doesn't quite look as the design having previously been published here!


Here's the correct rendering from the front (If there is such a thing on this building ;) )...


http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/Front-01.jpg


And another one done from the other side of the building...


http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/Back-01.jpg


Thought I just might add the areaplan, showing the location in the nearest city, since it has been so important in the designprocess that this building could not be build in any other site, having been designed to exactly this site and the dynamics of the region and the city around it...


http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/Area-01.jpg


And last but not least a close-up of the facade...


http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/Closeup-01.jpg


Hope this was enough to satisfy your curiosity, if not, or if your are interested in making a reservation for one of the appartments... let me know - More than willing to help!!! ;)

(Think I might have uploaded the images in a bigger scale than intended, but I am to tired to change it! Apologize for any inconvenience!)

[ch1le]

im getting a feeling ur somehow involved with this building, its beutiful... Welcome to the forum, these renders are very much appreciated

[Vaidas]

wow, the shape of this building is just awesome!
And seems that those annoying orange details are popular not only in Lithuania :|

Anyway, I really hope this gets built :okay:

[AtlanticaC5]

I like the design! I was in Frederikshavn this summer, nice little city! :) Where in the city is it planned? At the harbour?

Oh, and welcome to the forum! Hope you'll like it! :cheers:

[NorthStar77]

It does remind somewhat of ET in Vilnius :D I like it

Hi arkoh, welcome to the forum :hi:

I was in Fredrikshavn last winter(A short trip with danskebåten:D). Where in Fredrikshavn exactly will it be erected? We walked around in some pedestrian streets, but not much more, since only had an hour or two until the ferry left again. While this was early morning in a weekend, Fredrikshavn seemed very quiet and small. We also looked at housing-prices, out of curiosity, they were pretty low. So how can this tower be economically viable?

[Mantas]

Nice architecture, I'd say, although the design lack of something, IMO.

And welcome to the forums :)

[Swede]

The tower itself is lookin' awesome, but I find it lacking in urbanity at the base.
Tower-in-a-park has never appealed to me much, I prefer an urban podium.

[arkoh]

im getting a feeling ur somehow involved with this building, its beutiful...

Well I guess you could say that... I'm the architect in charge of the design process. So if you have any complaints... I'm the guy to pin to a stick and drag through town! ;)


We also looked at housing-prices, out of curiosity, they were pretty low. So how can this tower be economically viable?

Frederikshavn is a pretty interestning example of how a City can get stuck in a small bubble in time, having been protected financially by a Major Industry. This Industry has now closed its buisness and the city has been forced to rethink everything - Not only how to create new jobs and how to attract taxpayers, industries, "knowHow" and soforth... but also how to keep the people allready living in the city IN the city!

I wouldn't call it a replacement of the excisting housing mass in Frederikshavn, I would rather call it a supplement! A completely different approach to living in Frederikshavn than what has been available so far, a way to attract taxpayers from neighboring cities. A way to keep up with time, something that the city hasn't really done before! And it shows! - The interest for the project is surprising even me! And the prices of the apartments is showing that it isn't only for the rich and wealthy! It's really for everyone!


Tower-in-a-park has never appealed to me much, I prefer an urban podium.

It's located in the absolute dead center of town! On the edge of the Town Hall Park, right behind the Town Hall itself! About a few minutes walk from the main pedestrian/shopping street. And yes I agree... I too see problems in isolated towers without an urban attachment, If you do not incorporate the surroundings into the base, that is! I have great confident in that we will succeed in making the building sit rightfully in the green area with the terrassing of the landscape in front and behind it making a solid foundation on which it'll get its "urban attachment"! I believe the landscaping around the tower and the base, will have great influence on how succesfull the building will fit in, and feel right (If you know what I mean!)! More here than in most other cases, linking the low-dense housing area behind it, with the Park instead of makin a barrier between the two! And at the same time, I feel like we have succeeded in making a Landmark/Sculpture and not a residential building as such!


seems that those annoying orange details are popular not only in Lithuania

;) The annoying orange details are thought of as a combination between Copper plating and Orange Glas! The top hopefully glowing in the sun as an image of the traditional old danish Light Houses along the coast around the city. May be a bit lame, but nevertheless the idea and I believe It'll look awesome reflecting the setting sun!

[ch1le]

youve done a great job imo!

[AtlanticaC5]

So you're the architect? Cool! How long have you worked on this building?

[Monkey]

Welcome to the forum, arkoh! :wave: It's a genuine pleasure to meet you. :cheers:

Thank you for your well thought out responses to people's replies. :okay: Your arguments sound convincing. I'm particularly pleased with your efforts to tie the building into the existing city environment. Terrassing and landscaping are an excellent way to achieve this. :cool:

I wish you well with this project and hope you'll stick around the S&B forum long after it is completed -- there is soo much going on in our remote, dear part of the world! :)

[Swede]

Välkommen till forumet! :)

Always fun/cool/kick-donkey when pros pop in to tell about their work :cheers1:

So, if I understand you cerrectly, the tower will in effect be kinda urban to one side (to the nearest street) and terrassed green-space towards a park that fills the rest of the block? Sounds, well, excellent. :okay:

[Vespa]

Yeah i like this building too and the orange colours looks nice IMO.

[Oberleutnant]

Excellent design, I like it!

The facade and its small details are very interesting - looks like in Denmark architects have much more freedom than here. For example, in Finland the regulations state that only a certain % of the facade area on a residential building can be glass.

Anyhow, I just wonder how the top of the Frederikshavn tower would actually look like in real life when finished.

I suppose the first few floors will contain retail space?

[arkoh]

How long have you worked on this building?

Well Its never really easy to say, now is it!?? You know Back and forth, and especially with a project like this, where the Office I'm working for, isn't being payed for the development of the project! I reckon I have used about 2-3 weeks all in all on the project! Design, meetings, visualizations and so on!!


So, if I understand you cerrectly, the tower will in effect be kinda urban to one side (to the nearest street) and terrassed green-space towards a park that fills the rest of the block?

Well not precisely, but more or less! It will be a combination between the two, an urban terrassing raising the level of the road up to the level of the building (a differens of some 2 meters), but somehow combined/overlapping with an greener natural terrassing! Hopefully makin the two elements working together instead of against eachother!


...looks like in Denmark architects have much more freedom than here. For example, in Finland the regulations state that only a certain % of the facade area on a residential building can be glass

Are you sure??? I mean... Denmark used to have those kind of regulations too! But for some years back, we changed to a more flexible approach to the amount of glass in a buildings facade! And when you think of it... it really doesn't make any sense to only look at the percentage of the facade that is glass! I mean... Nowadays, we can produce glass that has the same insulation values as an entire brickwall! It's completely redicules to look at it that way, without takin everthing into consideration! I can hardly believe that the laws are still like that in Finland! For what reason???...

And yes... you're right! The first few floors will contain retail space, shops offices and the like! Hopefully something that'll make the building open, accesible and puplic in the ground floor!


Anyhow, I just wonder how the top of the Frederikshavn tower would actually look like in real life when finished.

Me too!!! ;) But I am looking forward to figuring it out!!!

Ohhh yeah... and btw... Thanks for all the positive responds!!! This is not what we architects are used to!!! So... I fell kind of lost here!!! Come on guys!!! You can do better... I know you have something awefull to say!!! :bash: (That would really make me feel at home!!!) ;)

[ch1le]

how tall was it now? :)

[arkoh]

25 storeys... or more precisely 85 meters!

Not excactly what most other contries would even call a SKYscraper, I know!!! ;)

[ch1le]

85m is excellent! We here tend to take it as a true scraper :)

[NorthStar77]

25 storeys... or more precisely 85 meters!

Not excactly what most other contries would even call a SKYscraper, I know!!! ;)


But very tall to be in the Nordics :happy:

[Kaneda]

Thanks for the update!

You've really done a great job with that building, i'm sure that when (not if ;) ) its done, it will be my farvourite danish highrise building. :)

And, btw, welcome to the forum. I hope you'll stick around for some time. :)

[ch1le]

indeed, it's a very pretty building :), will be my favourite 2 (in denmark) when completed :)

[Þróndeimr]

Nice design, and welcome arkoh...:cheers:

The design is really enjoyable, and it reminds me of ET in Vilnius, though i hope this design is to become even nicer. I enjoy those wooden plates, and it may fit perfectly to the tower, but i've seen many exemples of poor work around that. (Is that a bit awefull to say? ;))

[sdes]

Great job, I like that tower very much. :)

Are you sure??? I mean... Denmark used to have those kind of regulations too! But for some years back, we changed to a more flexible approach to the amount of glass in a buildings facade! And when you think of it... it really doesn't make any sense to only look at the percentage of the facade that is glass! I mean... Nowadays, we can produce glass that has the same insulation values as an entire brickwall! It's completely redicules to look at it that way, without takin everthing into consideration! I can hardly believe that the laws are still like that in Finland! For what reason???...

Yes, I think that he is right. There is that kind of regulation in Finland, my relative architect Tuomo Siitonen told me that. :(

[arkoh]

The design is really enjoyable, and it reminds me of ET in Vilnius

Now I noticed NorthStar77 mentioned that as well... Dont know the building! I've tried to look it up, but without succes! Anyone outthere with a couple of fotos to spare??

[sdes]

Here's the link:
http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=140573

[Þróndeimr]

Now I noticed NorthStar77 mentioned that as well... Dont know the building! I've tried to look it up, but without succes! Anyone outthere with a couple of fotos to spare??

Yeah, you can see images at sdes's emporis.com link. The towers looks quite the same, the shape is quite identical, and there has been used some orange colors which is also used at Fredrikshavn Tower...:)

Btw, the roof part (see image at the botton) on Fredrikshavn tower may become "quite" horrible actually! As i've seen from many other cylinder formed structures that they has the same form of roof-top. A bit boring, would be nice with something a bit more spectacular up there!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/cityx/Architecture/FredrikshavnTowerx1.jpg

[Oberleutnant]

Are you sure??? I mean... Denmark used to have those kind of regulations too! But for some years back, we changed to a more flexible approach to the amount of glass in a buildings facade! And when you think of it... it really doesn't make any sense to only look at the percentage of the facade that is glass! I mean... Nowadays, we can produce glass that has the same insulation values as an entire brickwall! It's completely redicules to look at it that way, without takin everthing into consideration! I can hardly believe that the laws are still like that in Finland! For what reason???...

As sdes said, this is true. However, these regulations only apply to residential buildings. An office building can be as glassy as possible: an example (http://www.vtt.fi/virtual/try/terasrakennelehti/1998-2002/1-02/tr1-2002k12.jpg) :)

Funnily enough, this was the winning proposal (http://www.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2002/12/173927.jpg) for a new high-rise in Helsinki, made by the Danish architect firm 3xNielsen. Among the reasons why the current design according to which they are building the tower looks like this (http://www.yit.fi/binary.asp?page=39134&field=Image) were the regulations regarding the use of glass in residentials.

[Monkey]

For quick reference, John currently sports a segment of the Europatower in his avatar:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/image.php?u=177&dateline=1103065565

[mlm]

WOW, why didn't I see this before now!

First of all, welcome to the forum arkoh, what a pleasure to an the actual architect here among us to share information:yes:

And about the tower: I really like it. It's like a mix between Rica Forum Hotel (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=100130) in Stavanger, Europa Tower in Vilnius and Victoria-Haus (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=109925) in Düsseldorf. I'm also a bit sceptical about the top, but I guess you would have to see it in real life before we can judge it. It could also work out really nice though:)

The facade itself looks just awesome IMO. I think it would be a bit too boring and "office'like" if it didn't have the orange panels. The last rendering in your first post is stunning, altough it looks like it is 200-300 meters above ground;)

I guess the 13th this month will be an exiting day for you. If it turns out as a "no" (which has happend too many times in the past here with highrise proposals) you are more than welcome to bring the building here to Herning. ;)

[Hviid]

really nice design, really nice building... too bad you cant make 2 of those exact buildings and put them right beside eachother ... that would look awesome ... twin towers are always nicer then single towers ... but still ... great job :D

[Monkey]

Now I noticed NorthStar77 mentioned that as well... Dont know the building! I've tried to look it up, but without succes! Anyone outthere with a couple of fotos to spare??

Upon seeing the design of your building for Frederikshavn, arkoh, the Europa Tower in Vilnius was the first thing that came to my mind as well. :)

It's a shame that the forum is constantly "pruned!" :down: We've had many glorious threads with fabulous pictures of the Europa Tower, both during the construction phase and its opening, and also afterwards. Unfortunately, those threads are gone ... :cry:

In the meantime, of course, Vilnius' Europa Tower has become a familiar feature in the city skyline. :cool: I saw that building "live" during my wonderful visit to Vilnius, which included meeting some delightful forumers from that city :cheers1:, last summer. :happy:


@mlm: isn't this thrilling!!!! :banana:

[wolkenkrabber]

it l,ooks liek a nice land lean lipstick tower, it reminds me a bit of KST-residense tower

[Swede]

^that'd be KRT ;)
But, yeah, these cylidrical residential towers to resembel eachother quite a bit. There are distinct diffrences tho (size, height, glass-iness, colors, roof shape...).
NEway I like this shape for towers, it's just the base that can be a bit bad for the urbanity in some cases (when the architects get the idea that the more open are around it the better - usually just creates dead concrete plazas).

[arkoh]

And about the tower: I really like it. It's like a mix between Rica Forum Hotel in Stavanger, Europa Tower in Vilnius and Victoria-Haus in Düsseldorf.

Well I have looked through the different Buildings you guys compare it to, and well I can sort of see where you guys are coming from, and for some of the buildings more than others... but the only thing I stumpled over and that cought my attention, was this foto, that clearly shows the most striking different in the buildingshape of a round tower (ET and Victoria-Haus) to a more elliptic shape of the tower (Frederikshavn and RicaForum Hotel)!... http://www.emporis.com/dk/il/im/?id=166772.
Dont really like the tower itself... its too closed, dark, hostile and office like for my liking, but the shape makes it alot more dynamic and makes it a more "living" building, that'll change its appearence as you move around it!

I kind of like the ET tower in Vilnius! But can't really say what it is with this tower that I am missing... well maybe there's "too much" hapening... maybe that's the problem!?? Can't really say!!! But compared to alot of other Skyscrapers, I think they have succeded pretty well with this one!


I'm also a bit sceptical about the top, but I guess you would have to see it in real life before we can judge it. It could also work out really nice though:)

I am very much listening to all your comments and and your reservations!! Greatly appreciated! And very interesting to hear how people not involved in the project looks at the building... what they like, and what they don't like! And don't you worry... I've noticed the reservation alot of you guys are having about the top part! Will take it all into consideration as the project moves on!!

Nice illustration mlm btw... Looks great!!! And it tells me something too (since the surrounding you place the building in here, is very similar to the neighbourhood its located in, in real life... well a bit more space around it, but pretty close!)... that my thought of the copper plating realating to the Red roofs of the surrounding buildings WILL make sense! Appriciated! :applause:


it l,ooks liek a nice land lean lipstick tower

:laugh: Nice one wolkenkrabber!!! Never thought of that!!! We haven't yet come up with a name for the building, maybe I should suggest "the Gigant Lipstick" to the investors and the city counsil??... ;) Well or maybe NOT!!!

If anyone out there... Has a suggestion btw for a SUPERB name for the building!!! More than willing to listen! (I have allways thought of the name having something to do with the image of light houses along the danish coast... But can't really get it right!) Here's your chance guys... ;)
.

[arkoh]

The last rendering in your first post is stunning, altough it looks like it is 200-300 meters above ground;)

Ohhh yeah... well It never hurts anyone to exaggerate a tiny bit you know!!! ;)

A bit of artistic freedom I would call it!!! :crazy2:

[AtlanticaC5]

If anyone out there... Has a suggestion btw for a SUPERB name for the building!!! More than willing to listen! (I have allways thought of the name having something to do with the image of light houses along the danish coast... But can't really get it right!) Here's your chance guys... ;)
.

Hmm, maybe something like "Frederiksljus" (since it's in Frederikshavn), Frederikstårn or "Firetop" or something "poetic" ;)

[Hviid]

If anyone out there... Has a suggestion btw for a SUPERB name for the building!!! More than willing to listen! (I have allways thought of the name having something to do with the image of light houses along the danish coast... But can't really get it right!) Here's your chance guys... ;)
.

hmm... Frederikstårn actually doesnt sound too bad .... What about...
Frederiksbjerg (Frederikshavn + Bjerg Arkitektur = Frederiksbjerg) ... Rævnetåret ... Skytårn / Skytåret ... if I think of anymore, i'll get back to you :)

[ch1le]

Frederiksbjerg is kinda tacky and might result in negative backlash form public...

[Hviid]

The project is very much still "Proposed"! Nothing has been approved yet... It is up for pre-approval on the 13th of January 2005 (as far as I remember) ....

so arkoh ... its Jan. 16th today .. have you heard anything about if its been pre-approved??

[arkoh]

so arkoh ... its Jan. 16th today .. have you heard anything about if its been pre-approved??

Well Just need the final confirmation on the report I have seen on the internet from the meeting in the municipality, but apparently the project HAS got its pre-approval, from the city counsil!! The shadow animations the municipality has had done to examine the influence the building will have on its nearest suroundings has apparently shown, that the shadow from the building will only touch a couple of houses trough the year! - Their biggest fear!! :)

But again... Its sunday, and I cannot say for absolutely sure before I have spoken to the local authority official tomorrow, but Its definitely lookin good!!!

[Monkey]

That sounds like good news! :) I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you, Arkoh! :angel1:

[arkoh]

Latest News!!!

Well its complicated, but the Project Hasn't got it's Preapproval just yet! Because one official out of the 22 people in the committee for building & construction in Frederikshavn apparently wanted the project approved by the City Counsil itself, the project will now have to be shown to the politicians on a meeting in the City Counsil on the 14th of February.

Well I believe that Democracy and the democratic progress as such is vital for the realisation of a project as big as this, and especially for the influence the project will have on the way the people living in the city and particular in the nearest neighborhood, will either recieve the project with either curiosity and enthusiasme or resentment. So patience is a virtue in this case as so many others! :wink2:

But apparently this guy is on his own with the critic of the project, so we still believe very strongly that we will get the approval for further development of the project on the 14th of February! :)

[arkoh]

Well if anyone should find it interesting, here is the latest presentations/visualizations of the Apartments in the tower and a quick appetizer on the view from one of the balconies in the tower!


First the general Floorplan


http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/LejlighederSamlet.jpg


Then The different types of apartments starting with the smallest


http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/Lejlighedstyper-A.jpg

http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/Lejlighedstyper-B.jpg

http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/Lejlighedstyper-C.jpg

http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/Lejlighedstyper-D.jpg


And last the view form the Balcony (Very fast nondetailed rendering but nevertheless interesting for dreamers such as myself! m)) )


http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/UdsigtAltan.jpg

[Geex]

Nice building! I hope they will build more buildings like this ;)

[Oberleutnant]

Argh, "corridor kitchens". Having suffered from them ~12 years, can't say I really like 'em, but fortunately these are very open. The shape of the tower really increases the difficulty of designing the floorplan.

[ch1le]

sweet building, sweet shape... Good job Arkoh! Hope the best for the project!

[AtlanticaC5]

Cool renderings, a bit "Turning Torso-feeling" over the apartments :)

[mlm]

Cool renderings, a bit "Turning Torso-feeling" over the apartments :)

I was thinking the same with all the "round corners":)

Thanx for the updates and renderings arkoh, they look relly nice. This is surely one of the proposed towers in Denmark I would like to see build the most :yes:

[Vaidas]

wow, the shape is just awesome! :eek:

I guess a bit unpractical though... :)

[cphdude]

What can i say...I love it. Why can we get something like this over here...by the way, are the inside walls gonna be bare concrete walls?? Also, the big 4 story box in front of and behind the building, is that for lobby, or offices or also apartments? Great pics, keep it up...

[Hviid]

Awesome pics Arkoh :D .. i dont know if its just me, or if its the way the pictures are made, but the appartments look kinda small .. they look really cool, but still small .. oh well, its still an awesome building.. Go Team Go .. lol

[ch1le]

124 sqm is not by any means SMALL!

[Monkey]

O wow, Arkoh! :applause: Thank you so much, this is really enjoyable to look at! :cool:

Too bad you have to wait yet another few weeks to get the approval to proceed. :( Blast that sole guy on the committee that stalled the project! :bash: On the other hand, and as you observe, it's better to have full approval before proceeding. :yes: Besides, I know that you won't let the delay deter you, and you won't let the time go to waste. :)

That view rendering (A unique view ... sky, harbor and the endless horizon) is an extremely alluring appetizer! :okay:

I continue to wish you well and look forward to your news. :angel1:

[Hviid]

for sure its not ... but i think the pictures make the appartments look small .. i dunno .. i guess its just me :)

[arkoh]

Awesome pics Arkoh :D .. i dont know if its just me, or if its the way the pictures are made, but the appartments look kinda small .. they look really cool, but still small .. oh well, its still an awesome building.. Go Team Go .. lol

Well Your not wrong at all... the size of the apartments are including their share of the centercore (as is how its always done in DK!), an the core is NOT small...let me put it that way! That means, that the apartments are a fair bit smaller than the square meters noted! And on top of that... I actually think we included the size of the Balconies in the size of the apartments, since we at this point in the proces really dont know whether it'll be closed balconies or not! So you're not that much of!

But the "feeling" of space in the apartments are quite satisfying I believe! I am pretty sure they'll feel ALOT bigger than they really are!!! But again... its all theory at this stage!! :?


by the way, are the inside walls gonna be bare concrete walls?? Also, the big 4 story box in front of and behind the building, is that for lobby, or offices or also apartments?


Well A small hope of mine about the walls... at the least, they will some how be differently texturized than the rest of the apartments walls! I believe this will make the direction of attention (out through the facade) feel that much stronger, and will make the idea of the Bathrooms and the kitchens as freefloating in the bigger space of the apartment feel that much more powerful!

And yes, the "4 story box" in the bottom, is for the lobby, officespace and the like... but NOT for apartments! And as talked about before, as a more urban connection to the site! this part hasn't been designed in any way, other than the sketch modelled here (but it wont be much bigger than it is now!)!

.

[Hviid]

do u know where i can get a map of the area its going to be in? i tried searching on the web but i have no idea where or what to look for ... thx

o and 1 more thing ... do u know how much each appartment is going to be selling for? And are they gonna be appartments to rent/buy/both?

[tayser]

holy moly that tower's beautiful!

[ch1le]

arkoh, can i ask you a couple of questions..
firstly, what program did you use to make those fabulous renders?
secondly, do you make them floor by floor or? well.. dunno

i just started doing renders, and now im just making the 3d angles, models, shapes in 3d program, then i transfer the model into photoshop and add textures and backgrounds, sky, etc, there..does it seem like a okay way to do it?
Or should i do something in Photoshop, textures and stuff, then export those to 3d? heh.. this got a bit too complicated :bash:

Thanx!

[Hviid]

ch1le> what program do u use to make 3D stuff???

[sdes]

@DLL_4ever

You make 3d stuff too? I use Lightwave.

[ch1le]

i am trying to use 3dsmax, atm i got ver4

[Hviid]

sdes> no i dont ... but i really badly want to, its always interested me

[arkoh]

arkoh, can i ask you a couple of questions..
firstly, what program did you use to make those fabulous renders?
secondly, do you make them floor by floor or? well.. dunno

I use 3D STUDIO VIZ 2005! What version doesn't really matter, since the program hasn't changed that much for the past 3-4 years! I know many people out there will say... use Max instead!! But in my oppinion... Unless you are planning on doing animated movies, Super special effects or cartoons... Max would be like shooting sparrows with bazookas!!! ;) Viz will do everything else just as well and faster for a fraction of the price of Max!!!

What DOES make a different, an what has made my life with 3D visualizations SO much easier, is Brazil R/S! The render plugin produced by Splutterfish! (check out http://www.splutterfish.com/) This plugin is absolutely amazing and for what its worth coming from a guy having worked with 3D modelling for the past 10 years and having worked with ALOT of different software... I would recommend it anytime of the day! Especially if you are doing Architectural visualizations! The ease of use is amazing and when it comes to something that MUST work as just a tool for an architect, and NOT the mean itself (if you know what I mean) then the ease of use is SUCH an important factor! By ease of use I mean, the time it takes to set up a scene and do the rendering! With this Plugin, I have the choice of producing the fast nice Renders that I can use as a quick way of examining my designs, or do the heavyduty renders with a higher level of realism bordering on the absurd... whatever the project calls for! (Even beginners can get something pretty cool out of Brazil, but at the same time the software allows for pro's to go pretty much as far as they want!)

I am not really sure I undestand the second wuestion, But if you are refering to the exterior render closeup, I modeled one floor and copied it upwards!


i just started doing renders, and now im just making the 3d angles, models, shapes in 3d program, then i transfer the model into photoshop and add textures and backgrounds, sky, etc, there..does it seem like a okay way to do it?
Or should i do something in Photoshop, textures and stuff, then export those to 3d? heh.. this got a bit too complicated :bash:

Thanx!


Well I would say, you are going about it the wrong way! To put it short... You should do EVERYTHING in your 3D program (well except preparing your textures off course! Well actually I even know people preparing their textures in 3D, but I would recommend Photoshop for that job though)!

I know texturizing in 3D can seem like climbing a mountain for beginners, but when you get the hang of it, its easy, fast and sooo much fun, and there is NOTHING you can do with Photoshop, that will get even close to the feel of rendering everything in the 3D program! You can spice it up, and add smaller touches and correct different changes to the rendering in Photoshop, but you cannot do much else! And on top of that... It is soooo much faster controlling everything in one software!

Hope this is of some help! :)

.

[arkoh]

do u know where i can get a map of the area its going to be in? i tried searching on the web but i have no idea where or what to look for ... thx

o and 1 more thing ... do u know how much each appartment is going to be selling for? And are they gonna be appartments to rent/buy/both?


Location:

http://www.krak.dk/GRIDS/MAINPAGES/map.asp?mapnavfac=&mapnav=&ResultName=&ResultAdr=&tlf=&redZoom=false&redExtent=&mapx=&mapy=&job=&POSTNR_BY=9900+Frederikshavn&Adresse=%D8rnevej+9&Tagning=4.2_Kort_Res%2FIK_Mell2&stepinout=&scrolltop=0&mapserial=kortld.krak.dk%7C636790123%7C636710123%7C59133584%7C59233584%7C641300000%7C603300000%7C42750000%7C90250000%7C500%7C400%7C100000%7C100000%7C59183584%7C636750123%7C1%7C59183584%7C636750123%7C%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C1%7Cff0000%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C0&zoomlevel=2#kort


And yes the appartments will be sold, varying from around 1,5 mill danish kroner for the smallest to 2,5 mill for the biggest!

.

[Hviid]

I thought it was going to be closer to the water? On the map it seems pretty far from the water.

wow ... 1.5-2.5 million ... Are appartments usually expensive in Denmark? Or is that not expensive at all? (sorry im sounding like an idiot, but ive never baught any kind of house/appartment at all so i have no idea how much prices are for anything)

[Oberleutnant]

^
It's only ~500 meters from water. That's close.

1,5 million Danish krones would be 262,000 USD and 200,000 euros at current exchange rate.

[Hviid]

Okay ... is that expensive, for an appartment like this?

[Monkey]

This deal with including the "core" space in the floor area of the apartments surprises me, Arkoh. :eek: You say that's common practice in Denmark. Looking at the apartment slices you so beautifully show on the previous page, it seems to me that the reduction in actual usable floor space varies from apartment to apartment--of course I can't figure out the actual percentage of sqm. I'd say about a 5th is lost. Am I right, or is it significantly less?

[arkoh]

This deal with including the "core" space in the floor area of the apartments surprises me, Arkoh. :eek: You say that's common practice in Denmark. Looking at the apartment slices you so beautifully show on the previous page, it seems to me that the reduction in actual usable floor space varies from apartment to apartment--of course I can't figure out the actual percentage of sqm. I'd say about a 5th is lost. Am I right, or is it significantly less?

As I mentioned, Its not only Common Practice in Denmark, its actually the law conserning the way we calculate the squaremeters of every kind of apartment, office, retail-space... well you get the picture! :)

I cant say excactly how much the reduction is per apartment, but when the law states, that every apartment using the Central Core, must pay for an equal amount of squaremeters, its obvious that the overall percentage that the apartments are reduced with varies! Since for example 15 m² taken from every apartment, is a bigger part of an apartment of 80 m² than of an apartment of 140 m²! It's a bit complicated, but this is the way the law states that we have to calculate the size of the apartments when it comes to the property taxes f.ex. in Denmark! On the other hand, Its not neccesary the way the m² are divided, when it comes to calculating the actually m² that every apartment is paying for! Complicated as i said!! ;)

Okay ... is that expensive, for an appartment like this?

As far as I remember this equals a m² price of some 17000 danish kroner!

Well it really depends in what town in Denmark you are looking! But as a whole... its really NOT that expensive for a Higher than average Quality apartment with a location and view like this! I mean, you are definately getting something here that you otherwise wouldn't find in Denmark, not only the fact of living in a Tower with a breathtakin view of the countryside and the ocean, but also apartment layouts unlike others! I for one is extremely surprised at how low the prices are, but I am, on the other hand, a native "Copenhagener", living in The big city, working up her in the north for the week! And compared to the property prices in Copenhagen, this is EXTREMELY affordable!!!

With these new types of loan that have sprung to life in Denmark the past years, you would be able to get the smallest apartment paying only a monthly morgage of barely 2500 danish Kroner and some 4500 for the biggest (Same price in the buttom as in the top)! These kind of loans are really only interesting for people without a need for saving up for their retirement already having secured their pension and the like... It would be like renting an apartment, since you wouldn't be saving up in the apartment, only paying of the interests on the loan! I believe these prices made alot of the critical voices in the town silent, since they realized that these apartments wasn't just for the rich and famous!!! Even they could afford one... ;)

Envy is a big part of the danish society!!! :bash:

.

[mlm]

I agree that the prices seems very cheap compared to other similar projects. For example the new tower in Vejle ("Tårnet Vejle Havnepark" or whatever they call it now) had price tags on 1.6 to about 10 mil Danish Kroner. And with only 2-4 appartments under 2 million.

I actually didn't think it was possible to construct a tower like this in Denmark and take that "low" prices:)

[ch1le]

Arkoh, i touched 3d the first time yesterday, i started this project today, what do you think of it???
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v370/ch1le/tartumnt15finalside1.jpg

[Monkey]

Thank you for elaborating further, arkoh :). All that is really fascinating.

@ch1le: looks good to me! :okay:

[tournesol]

Great to have an real "insider" arround, and thanks for an excellent thread ARKOH! :)
It seems that the project is going to get approved! Thats great. We really need some good looking 'scrapers arround to change the public opinion.

[arkoh]

Well just had a few moments.. thought I might keep everyone interested UpDated on the project.

The City counsil has given the pre-approvement, meaning that alot of people now are working hardcore to get the changes made to the local plan for the area, so it will be possible to build a up to 85 meters on the site... IF... if that is, the City Counsil will approve it in the end!

First of all the Local plan has to be finished... then these changes has to discussed in open "neighbour hearing" as it is called for 2 months, where everybody can object to the project as much as they like! And then in the end, the City counsil has to approve the building, taking into consideration the project and comments from the architects and all the comments from the "Neighbourhood hearing" before the project can move any further!!!

Have attached the latest rendering of the building, done for the local plan. The area around the building has for now been left untouched... we dont want to go into a discussion about the landscape just yet! But it will be treated with most respect for the park and the neighbourhood!

:)

http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/AerialPhoto-from-south.jpg

[ch1le]

fabulous building, i cant wait to see this one rise!

[mlm]

Thanx for the update and new rendering arkoh. :)

Let's hope thing will go smooth from here;)

[Hviid]

sounds like good news :D

[Monkey]

You read my mind, arkoh! :) Just recently I had been wondering what happened to you & your project. Thank you for the update! :okay:

Frederikshavn's project approval process sounds quite similar to the one we have here in Berkeley.

Congratulations on getting this far! :cool: Now I hope that the rest of the needed permits, etc. will go smoothly as well, and particularly that you won't be faced with armies of outraged neighbors! :angel1:

So please stay in touch ... you know you have the support of everyone here! :horse:

[sander]

Cool place for this skyscraper. Often skyscrapers are surrounded with asfalt, but it`s coolly placed in the middle of grass area. Also it stands alone, which is pretty cool spectacle in this low-rise area.

[onetwothree]

It looks like the one in Randers (or maybe the one in Randers looks like this), but it's a nice design though

[arkoh]

It looks like the one in Randers (or maybe the one in Randers looks like this)

Hmmmm... I just saw the one in Randers for the first time this very Morning, and let me put it to you this way:

This project has been under way... published and presented in different medias, national television and newspapers for the past year now... and the one in Randers just made the headlines today!!!....................

Well nothing to do about it... thats life in architecture!! I mean borrowing ideas from other projects are nothing new, but in my oppinion there are different levels of doing so, and for what its worth... without going into a disucussion as to wether the architects responsible for the "thing" in Randers, have been looking through our drawings and visualisations or in so case, how much - I just think, in general, that it's sad that it's the way of some architects!!!

So Sad!!!! :?

[mlm]

/\ I think we all know here that "your" project was born way before the Randers one. It semms like they looked a bit too much on your renderings. :ohno:

To their defense, it has to be said that they write the design is far from done, so maybe the outcome will be very different. Let's just hope they wont "steal" too much of yours in the end.

[Nightsky]

I think the red colour will look a bit different in reality.

[Hviid]

Hmmmm... I just saw the one in Randers for the first time this very Morning, and let me put it to you this way:

This project has been under way... published and presented in different medias, national television and newspapers for the past year now... and the one in Randers just made the headlines today!!!....................

Well nothing to do about it... thats life in architecture!! I mean borrowing ideas from other projects are nothing new, but in my oppinion there are different levels of doing so, and for what its worth... without going into a disucussion as to wether the architects responsible for the "thing" in Randers, have been looking through our drawings and visualisations or in so case, how much - I just think, in general, that it's sad that it's the way of some architects!!!

So Sad!!!! :?

I obviously dont know too much about architecture or anything ... but arent there some sort of copywrites on your renderings/designs? From the look of the one in Randers:
http://www.sahl.dk/typo3temp/132627718f.jpg
And the one here in Frederikshavn:
http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/Back-01.jpg
The only difference I can see is the color of the building, but other then that, it looks almost identicle ..

[Sideshow_Bob]

I think that the one in Randers looks triangular or square and the one in Frederikshavn looks oval.

[ch1le]

i must agree with sideshow here, if you calimed they were similar architects of all "box" buildings could go to war with eachother ;)

[tournesol]

I agree that from this angle the similarities are big, but I think we should give them the benetit of the doubt before accusing them of stealing the design from Frederikshavn. And as mlm wrote, this is very early sketches and much can (and probably will) happen yet.

Anyway, thanks for your latest render, ARKOH. :okay:
It's good to see it getting closer, and those SUPER renders must impress some of the local politicians. Fingers crossed :)

[arkoh]

Well... as I said... Nothing to do about it!!!... and DLL_4ever No Copyrights on a shape, Nope, so gotta move on!!... And in principal I agree with you ch1le... then every architect designing square housing blocks would go to war with each other, but the situation IS different here... But I will leave it here, my mum always said that if I didn't have something nice to say, then I should shut the "%¤#"%¤#" up!!! (ahhh well not really coming from my mum, but the thought is appropriate enough I think!!! ;)

But I will say this much... They could at least have bothered choosing a different angle!!!! But again... That's just me you know!!! :rant:

Welll thought I might give you guys the latest update!!! And feel good about that instead!!!

These visualisations have been done for the proposal to the local plan! The local plan that (We expect) will be approved in the City Counsil tomorrow!!!

First one seen from the water of the coast of Frederikshavn! This will be the view of the city as you approach the coast from Sweden or from Læsø!


http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/From-East_Kattegat.jpg


The second one is from the Harbour


http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/From-East_Harbour.jpg


The third one from the neighbourhood behind the tower


http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/From-North_Oernevej.jpg


The fourth from the intersection to the south of the tower


http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/From-South.jpg


The fifth and last one from the hills in the southern part of town.


http://hjem.get2net.dk/arkoh/images/From-South02.jpg


Well just made some changes to the visualisations... thought I better add some copyright informmation there!!! ;)

ALL visualisations VERY impressively done by COWI A/S (a Danish Ingeneering company)!!!!!!!!! With an impressive height fault margin of +/- 1 meter!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hviid]

/\ very nice arkoh :D as usual! This is going to look AWESOME when done! It stands out pretty well too! Although, I think it would stand out even more if it was taller ;)

[DenverDane]

Thanks for the update Arkoh! It will definitely add another twist to the otherwise boring skyline of Frederikshavn. I agree that it's some great renderings from COWI. :okay:

[tournesol]

Thanx Arkoh. Fingers crossed for tomorrows City Council meeting ;)

[Monkey]

Thank you, Arkoh! :) VERY nice visualizations that should convince everybody that Frederikshavn will not be ruined for ever if your proposed building is permitted to be part of its skyline. :okay:

I'll most likely be asleep when your hearing before the City Council takes place, but I wish you well! :angel1:

[Hviid]

delete

[DenverDane]

^Then it starts to look like a gigantic cigarette! ;)

[Monkey]

Lol, DenverDane! :)

DLL, we should bear in mind that, at such a height, arkoh's project would in all likelihood be rejected, and we don't want that to happen, right? :okay:

[Hviid]

Lol, DenverDane! :)

DLL, we should bear in mind that, at such a height, arkoh's project would in all likelihood be rejected, and we don't want that to happen, right? :okay:

Hey you never know :) Look at the TT in Malmø .. who really expected something like that would ever show up? Especially at the location that its at :)

[tournesol]

Hey you never know :) Look at the TT in Malmø .. who really expected something like that would ever show up? Especially at the location that its at :)
Now, Frederikshavn isn't exactly as big as Malmö... ;)

Btw, DLL4ever - I know you didn't mean no harm - but the point of a COPYRIGHT image is to protect people from copying and manipulating it.
What you just did is illegal - especially when you leave the old copyright on the new manipulated image!

[Monkey]

Double :okay: :okay: tournesol! :)

[mlm]

/\ I must agree with 2 previous post here. Maybe not the best idea to manipulate a rendering that goes through a city council voting process today, and place it online, while the COWI copyright is still there.
----

Now waiting very excited to hear from arkoh. :)

[Hviid]

Btw, DLL4ever - I know you didn't mean no harm - but the point of a COPYRIGHT image is to protect people from copying and manipulating it.
What you just did is illegal - especially when you leave the old copyright on the new manipulated image!

My bad :( ... I didnt really mean for it like that.. it was just a dumb joke

[arkoh]

/\ I must agree with 2 previous post here. Maybe not the best idea to manipulate a rendering that goes through a city council voting process today, and place it online, while the COWI copyright is still there.
----

Now waiting very excited to hear from arkoh. :)

Well I'll give you my 10 cents on the topic!!!...

First of all... I honestly couldn't help smiling at your manipulation DLL_4ever... It really does look like a gigant cigaret! And I am sorry.. NOT to my liking!!!!!!! :doh:

And well the Copyright thing... Its a tuff question, and maybe one I should have addressed back when I started to throw all this stuff on the forum, but I guess there's NO easy answer to the question!!! Preferably I would like that people didn't mess with the visualisations, and maybe especially because as you mention mlm its up for discussion in the city counsil right around these days... and especially I have NO clue as to wether anyone involved in the political decission making process would take it as much of a joke to see a gigant cigaret in the skyline of Frederikshavn as I do! But I doubt it, I have to admit! Politicians have a surden tendency to find one thing to focus on, and then forget about everything else, and this can be potentially fatal to a project like this!

But then again... I guess I have only myself to blame if something like this happens! I could just have stayed away from any public confrontation/discussion... but I have decided to embrase the chance the internet has given the architectural buisness, to be a bit more open and a bit less introvert!! And then I guess there is surden hassards to a decission like that! But I have faith in the fact that openness and constructive discussions in a project like this is better than the opposite! And for the same reason we've held several open meetings in Frederikshavn discussing the project with anyone interested. And trust me, when I tell you... This takes humour as well!!!! :blahblah:

At the same time... It's hard to take it personal on a Forum like this, when people mess with the images... as opposite to the same thing in "real life"!!! Here I know that people will look at it and treat it with genuine interest, and not in any way use it for any commercial or "bitching" purpose! And I do listen to what people have to say, and learn (and shake my head at a gigant cigaret in the skyline of Frederikshavn :ohno: )!!! - But... and I might add... just don't mess with my "baby" in real life... That's like hitting me in the face with a sledgehammer!!! :bash:

Guess that's my thoughts on copyright and the Internet!

And again... No worries DLL_4ever!!! I do have humour!!! :yes:

[ch1le]

;) Too bad i cuoldnt see the "cigaret"!
arkoh, i have a question to you, as a wannabe architect id like to know what happens when your proposal gets sayd no from the planning dept, do you still get payed?

[arkoh]

;) Too bad i cuoldnt see the "cigaret"!
arkoh, i have a question to you, as a wannabe architect id like to know what happens when your proposal gets sayd no from the planning dept, do you still get payd?

:laugh:

I like that question!!!

I believe I can answer you in a very simple way... Do not go into architecture for the money!!!... because they don't come flying out of the sky in this buisness!!! I reckon 30-40 % of our work is pretty much wasted on doing competitions that we don't get payed for, sketches that we don't get payed for, projects that are dropped without compensation... and projects as this building, where we haven't got a true client (in the paying sense you know), but are doing the work with an idea and a hope that we might be able to convince the people with the money to build this project, as the word goes around... :wallbash:

Architecture gotta be soooo much more to you than the money, for it to be ANY fun!!! But if it is... It's all worth it!!!!! :)

[ch1le]

oh no, ill definatly go there for the money, im just a bit curious what happens to the Architect when the proposal goes down! ;) Im definatly not in it for the money!!!!! I totally love it and its become my passion :)

[Monkey]

Ah,, but we're all hoping that arkoh's project will be approved and realized, right? :okay:

And I'm eagerly awaiting word on what happened at the City Council. :)

[arkoh]

Ah,, but we're all hoping that arkoh's project will be approved and realized, right? :okay:

And I'm eagerly awaiting word on what happened at the City Council. :)

Well first of all... My fault... The meeting wasn't in the City Consil! I somehow got it all mixed up! First the Department of Technics & Environment will have to accept the Local Plan, then the Deaprtment of Economy will have to agree on spending the money to pull this thing through the Political system... and THEN the City Counsil will have to agree on putting the Local Plan into Neighbourhood hearing!!!

The meeting yesterday was postponed until today!! The other meetings are on the 20th (Economy) and on the 26th (City Counsil) of this month... I think! :dizzy: (Too many things happening!!!)

[tournesol]

^^^ So the 26th will be the big day I guess. But the earlier two meetings will probably give a good indication of where we're heading...

[arkoh]

^^^ So the 26th will be the big day I guess. But the earlier two meetings will probably give a good indication of where we're heading...

Well yeah kind of... The 26th is, as I mentioned earlier, the day, where the City Counsil will decide on wether to send the Local plan into Neighbourhood hearing or not! And then follows from 8 till 12 weeks of Neighbourhood hearing... and THEN the City counsil will, on base of the comments from the different authorities, department bosses and officials, and all the different comments from people having commented on the Local Plan and the Project, through the neighbourhood hearing, hopefully accept the Local Plan containing our project!!! HOPEFULLY!!!

But... some great projects have fallen after neighbourhood hearing! Just take the last example of the Project of the "tall buildings" on Wilders Square on Christianshavn in Copenhagen by Eric van Egeraat! - The City Counsil dropped the Project after Massive objections from the locals on Christianshavn! A sad sad sad day though for Copenhagen if you ask me, loosing an absolutly brilliant project!!! So much can happen even though we get the approval on the 26th of this month!!!

But yeah... hope we can get over the first steps without too many problems! And then lets just wait and see how things go thereafter!

[samminn]

The tower itself is lookin' awesome, but I find it lacking in urbanity at the base.
Tower-in-a-park has never appealed to me much, I prefer an urban podium.

Yeah, I agree with that. Nonetheless, an urban podium in the open green space where this particular tower is proposed would make such an approach rather out of place wouldn't it?

In an open green space I would rather minimise any ground podium so that it would appear as if the tower has just risen from underneath the ground... a bit like the trees around.

[arkoh]

In an open green space I would rather minimise any ground podium so that it would appear as if the tower has just risen from underneath the ground... a bit like the trees around.

Funny you should mention it... I had thought of the same myself!!! I dont know if this will be the approach alone, but I like the idea of, well how can I paint the picture... almost a narrow moat or cutout around the base of the tower!! (well off course without water that is ;) )! Meaning that the tower will look as if it's continuing into the ground! We can't and shouldn't altogether rule out an urban podium, but respecting the location of the Tower IN the park, is something that'll be very interesting to work with!!!

[Monkey]

I'm sorry to hear that things are so complicated and demanding, and that they'll take such a long time, arkoh. :( But I'm convinced that you and your firm are well prepared to respond to questions, counter arguments, and present the project in the most positive terms, so that you'll handle the initial stages & hearings with ease. :okay:

But I'm worried about vox populi, too! People can be just awful when they think somebody is trying to "destroy" their neighborhood. :| The defeated project in Copenhagen is such a sad story! :cry:

I continue to wish you well and fervently hope that you and your beautiful project will not fall victim to nimbyism. :angel1:

[ch1le]

Id rather use a organic base ;) With preferably wines and green plants acting as a part of the facade;)

[tournesol]

Well yeah kind of... The 26th is, as I mentioned earlier, the day, where the City Counsil will decide on wether to send the Local plan into Neighbourhood hearing or not! And then follows from 8 till 12 weeks of Neighbourhood hearing... and THEN the City counsil will, on base of the comments from the different authorities, department bosses and officials, and all the different comments from people having commented on the Local Plan and the Project, through the neighbourhood hearing, hopefully accept the Local Plan containing our project!!! HOPEFULLY!!!

But... some great projects have fallen after neighbourhood hearing! Just take the last example of the Project of the "tall buildings" on Wilders Square on Christianshavn in Copenhagen by Eric van Egeraat! - The City Counsil dropped the Project after Massive objections from the locals on Christianshavn! A sad sad sad day though for Copenhagen if you ask me, loosing an absolutly brilliant project!!! So much can happen even though we get the approval on the 26th of this month!!!

But yeah... hope we can get over the first steps without too many problems! And then lets just wait and see how things go thereafter!
Oh! I somehow had the idea that the hearing was allready over and without much "Nimby-Noise". So there's still a long way to go....
But I'm convinced your excellent renders and visualizations will get their supporters too, among the puplic. I just hope that those who supports the project makes their voice heard too. (It's a general problem with puplic hearings - in my opinion - that they ask the protesters to come forward, but not the supporters)

[Monkey]

Two excellent points raised here! :okay:

1. I fully concur with ch1le: LANDSCAPING is an element and a feature all too often ignored. :( Many dreary buildings and areas could be improved enormously with a few shrubs, trees, and vines. :okay: In fact, I would go so far as to say that landscaping is an inexpensive way of making good buildings look even better and to camouflage the ugliness in others.

2. tournesol, you obviously have experience with public hearings, and I'm afraid your observation is correct: the opposition is usually better organized & comes forward in greater numbers than the supporters of a project. :(

This is something arkoh should bear in mind. :)

[arkoh]

what happened to the last two replies??? The one I made last night, and your answer Whose Homepage???

Or have I just been sleeping away in front of my pc??? Wouldn't be the first time, but nevertheless... :?

Well... The point of it all, was that I agree tournesol... There's is a general problem in these neighbourhood hearings... that often only the Negative voices are heard!!!! I do hope that all the positive voices will surface and give their oppinion as well!!!

[NorthStar77]

^some errors in the database must have occured last evening, because some of my posts in other threads disapeared aswell.

[mlm]

/\ Check out the "Announcement" on top of every forum;)

[arkoh]

Latest Update on the Project!

The Local plan was pre-approved in the City Counsil here the 25th of this month! 17 members of the City Counsil voted, with 4 against!!! But another 3 members voting for the Localplan Hearing, but stated that they couldn't support the idea of building a skyscraper in the center of Frederikshavn!

So the proposed Local plan containing the Frederikshavn Skyscraper, has now been put into Localplan Hearing for the next 8 weeks! Where every voice will be heard!!!

... HOPEFULLY not only the negative ones!!!! :rant:


For everyone interested, here are 2 links... first one to the description of the Project and the procedure of a Localplan Hearing including deadlines, ways to comment and links to differet material about the project... and the second one to the Local plan itself as it has been presented to the public.

Frederikshavn Kommune / Localplan Hearing (http://www.frederikshavn.dk/6599)

Localplan / pdf-file (http://www.frederikshavn.dk/download/pdf/lokalplaner/Hojhus_skerm.pdf)

[mlm]

Thanx again for keeping us updated.

Let's hope there will be some positive voices too, as you write. The negative ones are probably impossible to avoid for a project this big.

Be sure to keep us updated, I would very much like to hear some of the opinions from people, both good and bad. :)

[Monkey]

Thank you, arkoh -- that was an important first step! :okay:

I continue to wish you the best of luck now that you're entering the public hearing phase. :) I want there to be some genuinely enthusiastic Frederikshavners who will lend you & your project their eloquent support. :horse:

Alas neither of the links you give would open for me. :cry:

[mlm]

/\ That's odd, both links works fine here.

[DenverDane]

^ It's bad web-design! The first link only works properly if you're using Internet Explorer! :(

[tournesol]

Sure hope those Nimby's will take it easy this time... I would hate too see the second great project rejected this year (after Krøyers Plads)...

[mlm]

Just found a sound clip with a "group" of protesters. They're from SFU and they're gathering signatures against the building. You can find the sound clip RIGHT HERE (http://www.arnehansen.net/dialog/lokalt/040429sfumodhoejhus64kbps.htm) (in Danish). You can also hear their fantastic (NOT) protest song. LOL....

What a bunch of freaks...

EDIT: Madness seems to have hit the people of Frederikshavn. Just found another news article where a citizen want to hold an election where people can vote for or against the tower. (The article (http://www.tv2nord.dk/default.asp?kategori1=regnews&id=17199))

[Monkey]

Poor arkoh! :pet:

Thanks for finding this stuff, mlm! :okay: It's really sad to hear and read such things. :( What's the matter with those people? :bash:

Of course there were bound to be some skeptics ... but a whole chorus of naysayers, a demand that the project be put to a VOTE? :ohno:

Should we start a Letters to the Editor campaign? :horse:

[mlm]

Yes let's start our own yes campaign. I'm sure the 2 signatures from Berkeley and Herning would tip it to the right side. :nocrook:

But seriously, the sad thing about this is not the 2 young girls are collecting signatues, the sad part is that some people actually sign this because the girls look cute. Tsk tsk...

On another page I found (think it was made by the same guy who want the public vote), the tower is described as "The Tower from Hell". Christ... :ohno:

[DenverDane]

^ After having listened to that clip, I hope people don't take them seriously. One of the girls is not even old enough to attend high school and their arguments truly suck!

It's actually quite funny... They say that they didn't have time to make any banners or signs - yet they had time to write a protest song... ? The SFU union in Frederikshavn usually gets dissolved each year when the oldest graduate from high school! What a commitment! It just seems like they just want to protest for no good reason - probably just to have fun and meet new people....

[mlm]

/\ Yes exactly. They could have picked any case, and they also say that it's just as much to get members. I also doubt very much that anyone will listen to them, just hope they don't get too many people to sign.

[copenhagenjazz]

Haha, "SFU" - gotta love 'em. Went to high school with a bunch of girls who where very much into SFU. Some very nice, lovely and good people but somewhat a bit naive :)
Overall I agree with SF (SFU is the yout branch of this party) as I support the left, but this is just nonsense :baaa:

[ch1le]

you danish people ought to do a anti campaign! get together one day call the press and so it goes ;)

[cphdude]

Just found a sound clip with a "group" of protesters. They're from SFU and they're gathering signatures against the building. You can find the sound clip RIGHT HERE (http://www.arnehansen.net/dialog/lokalt/040429sfumodhoejhus64kbps.htm) (in Danish). You can also hear their fantastic (NOT) protest song. LOL....

What a bunch of freaks...

EDIT: Madness seems to have hit the people of Frederikshavn. Just found another news article where a citizen want to hold an election where people can vote for or against the tower. (The article (http://www.tv2nord.dk/default.asp?kategori1=regnews&id=17199))
SFU protostere SFU protostere - Klodsmajor, klodsmajor....Ha ha ha...Welcome to 1967...We dont wanna build, because it gives the city a bad image...God i hate people like that, people who have no idea what they are talking about, who resists any progress but who are usually the first people to leave the small cities because the city is boring and sucks!!! And then they move to copenhagen...And they take there fucking oppinion with them and then killing the progress in the big cities...damn it... :bash: :bash:

[Hviid]

But seriously though someone should protest AGAINST the protestors ... it isnt fair ... A lot projects have been denied or canceled because of these stupid protestors .. we gotta do something!

[Kaneda]

OMG, not SFU - they are just so stupid, if there is something I really hate it is SF and Ø!

I totally agree with DLL_4ever, somebody should stand up and support the building!

[Vespa]

Well im a supporter of Ø and SF, but those SFU's needs to take their political positions a bit more serious and stop talking nonsence (btw was SFU also involved in the protests against the highrises on Krøyer Plads?)

[arkoh]

Just found a sound clip with a "group" of protesters. They're from SFU and they're gathering signatures against the building. You can find the sound clip RIGHT HERE (http://www.arnehansen.net/dialog/lokalt/040429sfumodhoejhus64kbps.htm) (in Danish). You can also hear their fantastic (NOT) protest song. LOL....

What a bunch of freaks...

EDIT: Madness seems to have hit the people of Frederikshavn. Just found another news article where a citizen want to hold an election where people can vote for or against the tower. (The article (http://www.tv2nord.dk/default.asp?kategori1=regnews&id=17199))


JESUS CHRIST.... Absolutely HILARIOUS!!!! :hilarious I can hardly remember having laughed this much for such a long time!!!! Incredible!!! I believe we here have the entertainment for our Summer Picnic with the office!!!

But If anyone had ever been unaware of what architects have to endure of bitching and obstructions, trying to be progressive and Imaginative on behalf of everyone... just listen to this and you will undestand!!! Just have to sit back and hope that not tooo many Horny Sailors came through Frederikshavn that particular day... :naughty:

PRICELESS!!!!

Thanks alot mlm!!! Appriciated!!! :okay:

Ohhh yeah... I myself have always been a strong believer in SF's humane Politic, but when it comes to thier fear of Progress... well what's there to say... Sad and Pathetic!!!

[DenverDane]

The worst thing is that their song just entered the American billboard chart as no. 3!

It's the first time this has happened for a song in a foreign language!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/DenverDane/Jokes/billboard.png

;) Sorry, couldn't help it....

[Hviid]

:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:

You've got to be kidding me...

[arkoh]

The worst thing is that their song just entered the American billboard chart as no. 3!

It's the first time this has happened for a song in a foreign language!

;) Sorry, couldn't help it....


:hilarious

Man you got humour!! Like it!!! :okay:

[Hviid]

;) Sorry, couldn't help it....
LOL damn you ;) I actually believed it

[Vespa]

I've just putted Klodsmajor on my MP3-player...Haha I cant help but laugh at it!

[cphdude]

Damn that was good denver dane...How did you do that? Is there some site where you can create you own post?

[DenverDane]

^ No, but if you know a little about web development, then it's not so hard... :)

[Monkey]

:rofl: DenverDane! That was a good one! :okay:

You're very clever! :master:


In the meantime I admire arkoh's spirit and wish that the naysayers will shrivel and fail and vanish. :)

[arkoh]

Well back to reality! Latest and unfortunately last news on the project!

Yeah, you guys might have guessed it by the first line here... The Project is dead, gone and buried! After one years work, energy and shit loads of money invested in the project, the project fell to the hands of politicians worried about the election coming up in the fall! Honestly Pathetic, but thats life in this buisness!

Thursday evening, 4 days before the meeting in the City Counsil, everyone believed strongly in the project and its safe passage trough the City Counsil. Only 110 people had written complaints about the localplan during the hearing periode! ONLY 110 people out of a population of 39000 people in Frederikshavn that is! (Just to have something to compare it to... 4000 people signed particians against the shopping street in Frederikshavn some years ago... some 150 people signed particians about a speed bump on a simple road in the City... and 110 people had writen complaints and signed particians against this building!)... The Mayor even went on local television thursday afternoon, saying that there was NOTHING in the complaints that was a mojor problem and even worth considering! And still for some unexplicable reason 3 or 4 of the people that stood up and applauded the project 1 year ago, decided to move their vote from yes to no, with the explanation that "the people of Frederikshavn didn't want this project!"?????? That meant that there was now only a small majority for the project 11 for and 10 against! And therefor... Friday morning, the mayor decided, that he would withdraw the project from a democratic process and a democratic vote of the City Counsil!

Amazing how things have shifted from the first meeting where 20 people out of 21 almost applauded the project, calling it the right thing for Frederikshavn, visionary and bold!!! I am completely devastated and cannot believe how little spine some politicians have and how things, completely out of the blue, got mixed up in the coming election! Actually I said it to my colleges in the beginning of the year here, that we would have to do everything we could to get this thing through the political process as fast as possible, to avoid it getting tangled up in this election, but I would never have guessed that it could go from deadsafe to dead as a fish in about a day of political backstabbing!! NEVER!!!!

I have serious difficulties accepting the conservatisme of Denmark at present time! I do appriciate the carefulness we danes approach anything that might seriously ruin the local urban architectural tradition and desperately try to protect the feel of the urban spaces that really function against any attempt to cast 100 of years of carefull progress aside in the name of kapitalisme, but I cannot stand the narrowmindedness of people, when their comments against a project like this is, that we shouldn't try to build tall, because thats what everyone else is doing... that we should only build like we have done the last 200 hundred years and dont believe that progress is a possitive thing! CONSERVATISM, NARROWMINDEDNESS AND ... (well last word i'll do in danish!) NAVLESKUENDE!!! Sick and tired of people simply being against just to be against, hating everything new and everything foreign, with NO openmindedness... just to hate, thereby making themself feel happier in their own pittiful existens!! That is nowadays in denmark a national sickness if you ask me! It is nowadays pretty much the only thing beside the Femal Handball National Team, that the danes can come together about!!!

But... I seem to remember, a joke reply about someone wanting to start a partition for the project... in this thread, and someone else saying... "what diffenence would that make??!"! Next time... you guys should actually do it! I don't know if it'll ever make a real difference, but I know that one of the biggest excuses from the politicians shifting from yes to no, was that they couldn't undestand where the people in favor of the project had gone!!??? Honestly that was their excuse for shifting from one side to the other! I was stunned! I have no idea wether that was a lousy excuse or that was actually how they felt, but either way, this shows that one of my comments about the procedure of localplan hearings being a major problem, since only the negative voices are heard... had more reality to it than I might have guessed at that time! In our professional view, 110 complaints about the project out of a population of 39000 means that 110 peole are against the project and 38890 are FOR the project! But apparently these politicians didn't undestand or hadn't been told that a localplan hearing is for people to argue against the project!... There was only 2 people that had written in favor of the project, and those 2 people was mentioned in the news, the paper and by the politicians deffending their shift in oppinion!

So it CAN make a difference for people to write in from all over the world!!! Remember that guys!!!

[cphdude]

Well back to reality! Latest and unfortunately last news on the project!

Yeah, you guys might have guessed it by the first line here... The Project is dead, gone and buried! After one years work, energy and shit loads of money invested in the project, the project fell to the hands of politicians worried about the election coming up in the fall! Honestly Pathetic, but thats life in this buisness!

Thursday evening, 4 days before the meeting in the City Counsil, everyone believed strongly in the project and its safe passage trough the City Counsil. Only 110 people had written complaints about the localplan during the hearing periode! ONLY 110 people out of a population of 39000 people in Frederikshavn that is! (Just to have something to compare it to... 4000 people signed particians against the shopping street in Frederikshavn some years ago... some 150 people signed particians about a speed bump on a simple road in the City... and 110 people had writen complaints and signed particians against this building!)... The Mayor even went on local television thursday afternoon, saying that there was NOTHING in the complaints that was a mojor problem and even worth considering! And still for some unexplicable reason 3 or 4 of the people that stood up and applauded the project 1 year ago, decided to move their vote from yes to no, with the explanation that "the people of Frederikshavn didn't want this project!"?????? That meant that there was now only a small majority for the project 11 for and 10 against! And therefor... Friday morning, the mayor decided, that he would withdraw the project from a democratic process and a democratic vote of the City Counsil!

Amazing how things have shifted from the first meeting where 20 people out of 21 almost applauded the project, calling it the right thing for Frederikshavn, visionary and bold!!! I am completely devastated and cannot believe how little spine some politicians have and how things, completely out of the blue, got mixed up in the coming election! Actually I said it to my colleges in the beginning of the year here, that we would have to do everything we could to get this thing through the political process as fast as possible, to avoid it getting tangled up in this election, but I would never have guessed that it could go from deadsafe to dead as a fish in about a day of political backstabbing!! NEVER!!!!

I have serious difficulties accepting the conservatisme of Denmark at present time! I do appriciate the carefulness we danes approach anything that might seriously ruin the local urban architectural tradition and desperately try to protect the feel of the urban spaces that really function against any attempt to cast 100 of years of carefull progress aside in the name of kapitalisme, but I cannot stand the narrowmindedness of people, when their comments against a project like this is, that we shouldn't try to build tall, because thats what everyone else is doing... that we should only build like we have done the last 200 hundred years and dont believe that progress is a possitive thing! CONSERVATISM, NARROWMINDEDNESS AND ... (well last word i'll do in danish!) NAVLESKUENDE!!! Sick and tired of people simply being against just to be against, hating everything new and everything foreign, with NO openmindedness... just to hate, thereby making themself feel happier in their own pittiful existens!! That is nowadays in denmark a national sickness if you ask me! It is nowadays pretty much the only thing beside the Femal Handball National Team, that the danes can come together about!!!

But... I seem to remember, a joke reply about someone wanting to start a partition for the project... in this thread, and someone else saying... "what diffenence would that make??!"! Next time... you guys should actually do it! I don't know if it'll ever make a real difference, but I know that one of the biggest excuses from the politicians shifting from yes to no, was that they couldn't undestand where the people in favor of the project had gone!!??? Honestly that was their excuse for shifting from one side to the other! I was stunned! I have no idea wether that was a lousy excuse or that was actually how they felt, but either way, this shows that one of my comments about the procedure of localplan hearings being a major problem, since only the negative voices are heard... had more reality to it than I might have guessed at that time! In our professional view, 110 complaints about the project out of a population of 39000 means that 110 peole are against the project and 38890 are FOR the project! But apparently these politicians didn't undestand or hadn't been told that a localplan hearing is for people to argue against the project!... There was only 2 people that had written in favor of the project, and those 2 people was mentioned in the news, the paper and by the politicians deffending their shift in oppinion!

So it CAN make a difference for people to write in from all over the world!!! Remember that guys!!!
Wow...first up, im very sorry for you guys that this project wont happen. I know you put in a lot of hard work to get to this point...Second, i can totaly understand your feeling about the danish people and our politicians...I share your believes, and i ofteh think the same thing....It is becomming more and more clear that we can trust our politicians with decisions that are long term and for the greater good. They are like rats, running scared at the smalles sound of noise and chitisism...They look only at the next election period...

Reading your post, i was somehow reminded of the newly build opera house here in copenhagen. I was talking to a friend of mine about the lack of democracy in the building proces, and eventhough he was very happy about the building, he was also very angry about the way it was build...I asked him how he thought the project would have turned out, had maersk given the politicians a chance to be part of the project, or even it they had to have paid for it them selfs. In order to point out how bad it might have been, we only needed to look at the parking and acces situation overthere. The politicians have know for 6 years that the thing would be build, yet at cityhall, thay have only now started talking about the possibility of a tunnel inder the harbour from nyhavn...They somehow still asume that most people, who would spend maybe several hundred dollars on a ticket, would also take the bus out there...what the hell are they thinking...

On of the builders from dubai said in an interview recently, that the reason that are able to build such amazing projects downthere, is because thay dont have to worry about thisng like democracy and public hearings...sometime i understand that....

Again, im so sorry this project wont happen....Both for you and your company, and for the city and the country. We had probebly deserved better....

R.I.P. - Frederikshavn Skyscraper (by Arkoh)

[NorthStar77]

Ohh, man I feel so sorry for you:(

What you are saying about "CONSERVATISM, NARROWMINDEDNESS AND NAVLESKUENDE!!!"; it is exactly the same here! It is the same reason there is now a 12 floor limit in Oslo, against all logic.

[Mantas]

Sorry to hear that :ohno:

[Whose Homepage]

O arkoh, you must be feeling miserable!

Believe me, I'm miserable with you, practically in tears. I was SO hoping that you would succeed with your beautiful, thoughtful and and so very appropriate project! :( It is outrageous that that measly handful of 110 people who expressed opposition to your building, out of a population of 39,000, should have swayed the decisionmakers into breaking with their own process and even denying you the hearing! :rant: What a bunch of spineless so-and-sos!!!! :bash:

Yes, it was I who suggested we start a petition on your behalf (all those Monkey posts up there are really mine ... there was a hack, and that was one of the results :nuts: ). And how I now wish we had really done that!

From this vast distance I cannot assess the general mood and attitudes in Denmark, of course. But it is painful to see what distress, disappointment, and loss this atmosphere has brought you. We all truly believed in you and supported you and your project wholeheartedly. We are strangers; it must be awfully hard to be let down so harshly by your own people.

I am now truly crying. :cry:

arkoh, even now that the Fredrikshavn Tower failed, please don't leave us altogether! We'll always be here to support you. :)

[mlm]

Ouch, this is sad news indeed. How typical Danish. :(

I better prepare my pencil for some letters in favour for the new project proposed here in Herning.

[Hviid]

:bleep: :cry: :mad2:

Damn .. That REALLY sucks .. I'm speechless man, seriously.. Those f*cking politicians :mad2:

I would also like to quote on something important and 100% true that you mentioned:

"But... I seem to remember, a joke reply about someone wanting to start a partition for the project... in this thread, and someone else saying... "what diffenence would that make??!"! Next time... you guys should actually do it! I don't know if it'll ever make a real difference, but I know that one of the biggest excuses from the politicians shifting from yes to no, was that they couldn't undestand where the people in favor of the project had gone!!???"

Next time we see or hear of people starting a partition against a major project like this one, we should remember this ... and (try to) make sure that it would never happen again!

[ch1le]

oh gad :( This sucks! I HATE WHEN brilliant projects there and everywhere else in our nordic regions (and baltic) fall victim to politicians! This is SICK, and i see it happening in Tallinn ever so often too :( IM so angry! Mby we really should advnace this forum and start a ogranization of some sort! :( :gaah::gaah::gaah::gaah::gaah::gaah::gaah::gaah::gaah::gaah:

[tournesol]

Damn! Sad news indeed :( I'm so sorry to hear this Arkoh!

And unfortunately very typical. It's exactly as discussed earlier, that they don't regard all the non-protesters. They should be ashamed calling this a democratic discision when letting such a small minority dictate the citycouncils discions. I hope those people in Frederikshavn who supported this project - I'm sure they exist - will NOT elect these politician again because of there lack of backbone.

[Whose Homepage]

Could arkoh or one of our dear Dansk forumers please give the link for the local Frederikshavn newspaper?

I'd like to write a letter to the editor. :D

[DenverDane]

^^ www.nordjyske.dk is the regional paper for Northern Jutland. You go, WH!
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

Regarding arkoh's news, I'm also extremely disappointed, but don't give up just yet. If they don't want it in Frederikshavn, we would surely like to see it in Ørestaden!

[cphdude]

^^ this would kick ass in ørestaden...maybe right next to the ferring biulding...?

[Whose Homepage]

^^ Thanks, DenverDane, I will! :horse:

And also thanks for the link to the Nordjyske! :) They actually have an article on the arkoh's hoejhuset in the Frederikshavn (http://www.nordjyske.dk/index.aspx?page=2&action=sektionid%3D29&sender=&target=246&data=) section, but it's locked and you have to PAY for it! :mad:

[mlm]

Yes many Danish online newspapers are "pay sites" now. You can find a few articles about the building on the website of TV2/Nord. The direct link to the articles > HERE (http://www.tv2nord.dk/default.asp?kategori1=regnewssearch&runde=2&searchstring=h%F8jhus) (only in Danish).

[Whose Homepage]

Aha! :) Thank you, mlm! :hug:

I was actually perfectly willing to spring for an 8-day subscription to Nordjyske in order to get access to that article, but something went wrong when I went through the credit card routine. :bash:

Alas my Dansk is even more limited than I feared :wallbash: but I believe I caught a few phrases that can serve as the basis for my attack. :guns1:

[Nightsky]

I just read this. Very sad. I think I was the first one who posted the news about it one year ago and later I made a drawing of it for the SSP diagram. However, the decision was expected, as politicians in Scandinavia are both stupid and conservative.
So I guess I have to change the status of my drawing to cancelled. :(