Can a building that is 1800ft and 180stories be profitable?
also do we have the technology to build and maintain a 2000ft building?

yes, because its already sold out

but being soldout doesn't mean its profitable,to construct the building is going to cost billions and billions,of which i don't think they made by selling the building or leasing away the offices. in my opinion it will take atleast 30 years to make a profit . and since its such a huge building atleast 10 floors should go to elevator shafts and cooling systems

i think the profitability of the tower is significantly improved when the people who build it get given the surrounding sq kilometer of real estate free of charge from the government!

are you serious,so is this where there building the mall or the lake.

but i mean the main structure can it make back the money spent to erect a tower like this.

i definatly believe that in the future 2000ft buildings will be the new 1000ft,but at this point do we have the technology and the reliable material to do a building this tall that can make money.

but being soldout doesn't mean its profitable,to construct the building is going to cost billions and billions,of which i don't think they made by selling the building or leasing away the offices. in my opinion it will take atleast 30 years to make a profit . and since its such a huge building atleast 10 floors should go to elevator shafts and cooling systems

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

Doesn't sound sane or plausible, those oil barons dont know what to do with their dosh. I also heard something about an underwater hotel and a world shaped Island resort. Does anyone have renderings of this scraper by the way?

Doesn't sound sane or plausible, those oil barons dont know what to do with their dosh.

Like most of Dubai's project's The Burj Dubai is funded by investors. It would be insane and implausible to not capitalize on such a business oppotunity.

Here are the renders:
http://www.emporis.com/en/il/pc/?id=182168&aid=8

BTW, the amount of tourists this WTB will attract, can easily contribute a large fraction of it's profit margin.

Cheers for the renderings. Well I don't know, a fairly sparsley populated country and sprawled city resorting to man made Islands and 180 story buildings, doesn't sound right. Are these foreign investors?

The company which is building Burj Dubai has had their stock skyrocket in the past year. Around 1000%, so it looks like many investors want a piece of the action.

Are these foreign investors?

Yeah, a large majority. Which also account for the exponential increase in population (10% a year). Besides Dubai intends to attract 15,000,000 tourists a year by 2010, so the city should be very very crowded :D

wouldn't it gain money eventually from the rent?

I think that it would be a lot more profitable if they made two buildings of 500m instead of this giant. It would still be VERY tall.

yea 2 500m buildings would sound intresting

Even if this tower will not be profitable, the advertisement effect will weight that up. The same is true for the Burj Arab. This tower made it in all the news and people became interested in Dubai. So, on the long term those kind of buildings will be worth their construction money.

Yeah, a large majority. Which also account for the exponential increase in population (10% a year). Besides Dubai intends to attract 15,000,000 tourists a year by 2010, so the city should be very very crowded :D

10% a year is not exponential :)

10% a year is not exponential :)

It was a figure of speech. :)

Here's the project thread for Burj Dubai containing renders and construction images.

Link (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=105851)

I think that it would be a lot more profitable if they made two buildings of 500m instead of this giant. It would still be VERY tall.

There might be a marketing componet for building the WTB. If it were two 500m buildings, would it have still sold-out like Burj Dubai? Since Burj Dubai did sell out, why argue with sucess?

if they cant make profit, they wouldnt build it, buisness is about earning

not when you're talking about dubai

when the empire state building was built it was known as the "empty state building" for obvious reasons but know is one of the most prestigious adresses in manhattan. i think the burj dubai will become prestigious just the empire state building is down the road.

Also Burj Dubai is mostly residential, not office space... I think?

We know that 30 floors will be the Armani Hotel, but we don't know if those will be at the base middle of top of the tower. Maybe the Hotel will occupy one of the three sections of the tower (the tower has a Y - shapped base) but one thing is for sure, they are selling apartments on floors lower then 20 and higher then 60.

The bulding will indeed have office spaces.

BTW the building is not sold out, it can't be becouse even the developer doesn't know at this stage how tall the building will go. As msomeone was saying in another thread, the top part of the building is designed to be flecsible in floor counts.

you guys think in the wrong direction!

nobody can say yet burj dubai will be profitable or not!
but this is secondary here

imagine what this building means for tourism and recognition. in the end dubai will make much much more profit by its existence than by the rents!

the burj al arab played the same role. this hotel will never make profit itself but it attracts people more and more over the time.

you get my point

but you're talking about for dubai we all know that wtb means more tourism,but what about for the developer.

it's their risk and they know what could happen

10% a year is not exponential :)

yes it is

BTW the building is not sold out, it can't be becouse even the developer doesn't know at this stage how tall the building will go. As msomeone was saying in another thread, the top part of the building is designed to be flecsible in floor counts.

Well everything for sale was sold out, EMAAR is keeping the rest maybe until they finish the tower or announce the official heights.

The company which is building Burj Dubai has had their stock skyrocket in the past year. Around 1000%, so it looks like many investors want a piece of the action.

Of course their stock has skyrocketed. They are the contractors, and not owners of the tower!

yes it is

10% a year is exponential. Shaun, it it grows by the same percent every year than it it said to be exponential.

Well everything for sale was sold out, EMAAR is keeping the rest maybe until they finish the tower or announce the official heights.

ok say they put more height in it to be WTB, will it be space for one to use? or will they put a spire? if it is the former, who will take up the space? :)

renell, I don't know what's exactly happening.

I think that the highest floors are not for sale and there might be a hotel or something because it is subjected to expand and they cant take residents out.

whats taking so long for burj dubai to go vertical,isn't suppose to be done in 2007??

Of course their stock has skyrocketed. They are the contractors, and not owners of the tower!

He is talking about the owners who are building it (EMAAR), not about the contracting company that will construct it (SAMSUNG)

if they cant make profit, they wouldnt build it, buisness is about earning

Wrong. The Burj Al Arab will take a few decades before it breaks even

And I guess all the hidden investment in brought to the city by putting Dubai on the world stage should not be considered huh...

When the Empire State Building was built, it was so big, that the offices that were made for rent couldn't be filled, because of that, the building had to become a "tourist attraction"... The Burj Dubai, being nearly twice as high, will very likely suffer the same problem... But I doubt that it can become fatal for the goverment...

A record breaking building will always be valuable. Thats why Trump bulids buildings that break records (Trump International Hotel and Tower in Toronto, Canada's tallest). People want to be associated with a record breaker. Especially the Dubai Tower. It goes where no man has never been before.

Well everything for sale was sold out, EMAAR is keeping the rest maybe until they finish the tower or announce the official heights.

Are you sure? The UK's Financial Time still advertise investment opportunity on BD. I wonder is it possible to get insurance for a flat on the 150th floor?? A building this big will inherently increases the chance of a fire. What safety measure will be in place for the residence?? The shape and height of this tower indicates that it is not possible to travel non-stop in a lift from ground to the top floor.

that means the units have been sold from the developer emaar to investors
among these investors there are many real estate companies offering the units on the second-sale market, which is mainly the final user, a company buying an office unit, a rich person buying an apartment, a company buying some retail space

this just means the developer emaar has earned the money back and this automatically finances the costs to build the tower

Koi..

I think you could travel strait up theorietically (in respect to what your talking about)

If the lifts were in the middle there would be nothing stopping them.


While your correct that you couldnt go strait from the bottom to the top in 1 go, it isnt because of the toiwer shape.. its because of the height.

Your implication is not correct (Im my opinion, sorry if i turn out to be wrong) because the tower is constantly growing thinner as it gets higher, and doesnt have any parts jutting back out to cause people to have to stop and walk to a new elevator location

I don`t think it will be profitable, like the Burj Al Arab.
It`s because of the prestige. The Prestige to have the tallest building, makes a city and even a country more famous. Therefore Taiwan build the 101.

if a fire or something were to happen everyone would probably die because of the distance they would have to travel to get out.

Just like in most skyscrapers.

yea but not many are 750m

True, that's why fire prevention is vital. Same is true in any skyscraper.

if they cant make profit, they wouldnt build it, buisness is about earning

This is Dubai. Some bulidings are designed and built for their iconic nature. To Bring Dubai to the worlds attention. It might not be proftable in its own right but for the city and its future it is PRICELESS.

^but what about the developer

Can a building that is 1800ft and 180stories be profitable?
also do we have the technology to build and maintain a 2000ft building?

in short term probably not, long term yes. I think there is so much ego in Dubai, they where only a fishing village not more than 40 years ago, I just think they are so gluttonous and greedy I have no sympathy for Dubai and its projects, they are all ott and of no real use or importance...

Can a building that is 1800ft and 180stories be profitable?
also do we have the technology to build and maintain a 2000ft building?

a studio flat in burjdubai is selling for 2-3 million dirhams....which otherwise would be 0.5 million ....now u see they make lotta profit... :)

I think that it would be a lot more profitable if they made two buildings of 500m instead of this giant. It would still be VERY tall.

but then it wont be burjdubai....
why do u think it commands all the attention

You have to think big. Burj al arab is not profitable at all, if you compare to the buildings (hotells) income, it has to be booked for hundreds of years to pay the construction costs. BUT! It gives Dubai image, and makes other buildings get built, people move in, give tourism etc. That way, burj dubai will be profitable to in the long run, as a part of Dubai building other projects to.

Think of the HSBC Building in HK, it costs 1.2 billion, and look at its size! Sometimes its not about profitability, it takes money to have the edge over others, which is so important to companies.

I see BD as one big advertsiement, ads are expensive, and are worthless, but they help companies get known.

I think there is a lot of risk with everything they are doing in Dubai. Take Dubai business park for example. There is an expectation that companies are going to want to move their head offices there. However, there are a lot of other factors that just providing building space for companies. Where are the educated and skilled workers going to come from ? As far as growth, a lot of the current growth must be due to the construction jobs and related industries. So what happens when the bulk of devolpment is complete ? I have heard expectations of 15 million tourists by 2010. However, the numbers I saw in the Dubai section of this site show an increase of 2 million tourist every four years for the last 8 years with the current number at 6 million.

I'm not trying to bash Dubai. I think what they are doing is amazing and exciting. But it would be ignorant to think there is no risk of loss here - Burj Dubai included.

Dubai is very easy in terms of taxes. And therefore a good place for companies to establish. The bubble wont burst i think. But the prizes on the real estate market will probably fall quite a lot in a few years. But with all the projects completed then, i think a lot will like to move in there.

There is a risk, but what if they dont take it? It cant fail completely, its some kind of safety against oil income, and it does make Dubai a fantastic place to live for the inhabitants.

^but what about the developer

The developer have other things to do

like investing more than $50 billion in India and $ billions in Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and many other countries.

its a fact afther a country builded the highest building ever it went into recession

if they cant make profit, they wouldnt build it, buisness is about earning
I am not too sure about this. The fact that they built it means they sold it. It does not say anything about profitability in the long run.

One important thing to notice is the currently deserted Dubai Marina with only about 15% of the appartments being used. I hope this is because there is still too much construction going on otherwise it is a bad sign.

Regarding Burj Dubai... I think there will be some bargains because a lot of people boought several appartments, like stock options in an IPO. I see now they are advertising properties in resale for only 5% premium. This means that the market is not that hot at all and they have to get rid of the apts asap because the new installment date is coming up....

Once all building in Dubai is finished we will see a price drop. It is expected to be about 20% but the market will stabilze after that. Still, for the early buyers this means a profit. :-)

Does anyone have a studio in BD they want to selll at no or low premium? I am interested!

I think it'll be the odd building in dubai's skyline more than twice as high as the others. How on earth do you think they'll protect it from terrorist attacks? If BD really turns out to be an icon in the future it will be a terrorist target surely.

Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Burj_al-Arab) has an interesting quote regarding the Burj al Arab:

So expensive was the hotel's design and construction that it is estimated that to reach breakeven, it must be entirely booked for 400 years. The full amount it cost to build the hotel and furnish it is not publicly known, but some estimates suggest it easily cost over US$ 1 billion.

^^
That 400year figure was counted by some Norwegian journalists I think.

Yes, it can.

You have to think of Dubai as a big development with Emaar as the primary developer , sometimes you need a loss leader or an anchor by which you generate interest and value in your property. Essentially all the funky developments we see here in Dubai (of which Burj Dubai is only one) are there to drum up interest , much akin to Richard Branson making fun of himself doing crazy things. But behind it is shrewd business calculations to put a one time hole in the ground with basically no one living in it to one of the more famous cities in the world.

there are no terrorist attacks in Dubai. There are only Terror attacks in Europe and the US. Very strange, nothing happened in Dubai yet. My theory is that they do their banking in Dubai and blowing up stuff their is bad for their bank accounts. he he he. Besides, I think they will have a Burj Dubai apt as well. :-)

I think nobody should let terror attacks let them dictate what to do. If we would, we would all be living like cavemen and the Burj would not even be on the drawing board. ha ha ha.

No way, if they would ever blow-up the Burj, there is not enough time to run because they will get the spire on their heads. :-)

Seriously, you should not let potential threats dictate your life. If I would die because some tragic attack, I die..... It is not going to change the decisions I make whilst being alive. I find this attitude works very well and am not at all worried about terror attacks...

I STILL WANT A TINY BURJ DUBAI APPARTMENT!

I think it will depend on whether Bin Laden gang decide to punish the infidels in Dubai.

There are only terrorists attacks in US and Europe? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

As for profitability, good luck. There's a threshold of land value: floor space that would make this building hard to be profitable even in NY or Hong Kong. I'd be surprised if that were even approachable anywhere else. Simply too much product in that market. Even if the building is 100% leased.

10% a year is not exponential :)

Actually, it is. The formula for the population of Dubai, according to this statement, would be of the form a*1.1^n+c, where a and c are constants and n is the numbers of years elapsed since you started counting. As you can see, that formula is exponential.

Profit does not come only from the tower, but also from the business and tourism it brings to the state. With extravagant architecture, even I would go there !

YES IT CAN. Making it just that is hard, reducing loose and off setting with profits from other work. Allows for splender and in dubai's case pays it'self back with other projects and tourism.