Ummm, yeah....




DOT Approves Study For 7-County Beltway

By JULIA FERRANTE jferrante@tampatrib.com
Published: Jan 14, 2005


The state Department of Transportation is considering creating a major north-south beltway to alleviate traffic on Interstate 75 and connect several counties in the Tampa Bay area.

In the largest study approved since the 1997 Tampa Interstate Study, which outlined improvements for interstates 75 and 275 in downtown Tampa, the DOT will develop alternative routes through seven counties for a highway that could begin as far north as Citrus County and extend to Sarasota and Manatee counties, Project Manager Ming Gao said. The bypass also could extend as far east as Polk County but likely would not include Pinellas County.

The DOT has set aside $500,000 for the planning study, and a contract is expected to be signed next month, Gao said. The state, however, may spend as much as $1.5 million for a more detailed analysis if the road proves viable. The study also could be halted if environmental concerns or urban areas prove to be obstacles.

The idea of a multicounty beltway to alleviate traffic spurred by growth along the I- 75 corridor has been suggested for years, but recent requests from Florida Senate President Tom Lee, state Sen. Jim Sebesta of St. Petersburg, the Tampa Bay Partnership and others prompted the state to proceed with the study, Gao said.

``There has been an explosion of traffic on I-75 from the north. If you can offer people an alternative, it will alleviate traffic,'' Gao said. ``We look at it in terms of planned growth in the future and traffic 20 years down the road.''

Gao noted that no route has been determined, and the study covers a wide area.

``We are going to look at every possible scenario,'' he said.

Doug Uden, director of the Pasco County Metropolitan Planning Organization, said regional MPO directors support the idea of a beltway. Pasco County is among the top 100 fastest-growing counties in the United States, according to the U.S. Census.

``I think we should look at it if we keep on growing this way,'' Uden said. ``We need new roads.''

Regional MPO directors have indicated they would like the route to start in either Citrus, Pasco or Hernando, continue to Hillsborough or Polk and end at Sarasota or Manatee counties, Uden said. He noted, however, that conceptual maps are just that.

``It could be anything or go anywhere,'' he said. ``The only place we are not really looking at is in Pinellas.''

In Pasco, the beltway could cross U.S. 19 and the Suncoast Parkway or connect with the proposed Ridge Road Extension, an east-west road to serve as a hurricane evacuation route, Uden said, or it could skip those roads altogether.

A large well field east of U.S. 41 and the Green Swamp, which straddles Pasco and Polk counties and encompasses a portion of the regional water supply, also could prove a major stumbling block for a bypass.

Joanne Hurley, spokeswoman for Florida's Turnpike Enterprise, a division of the DOT that oversees state toll roads, also stressed that the study is preliminary.

``Because there is so much need for transportation projects and not enough money, we get a lot of requests to look at road projects,'' Hurley said. ``We are in the beginning stages of conducting a planning study. We just now said we will look at it. This is like designing your greenhouse on a napkin.''

I-75 will have to be widened regardless of them building this thing. Pasco is on fire and south Hillsborough is heating up. If development continues in the same pattern, I-75 will need more capacity to handle the local traffic.

Yikes! I-475?

I think going up to Citrus County is overkill... too far north... I would think no farther than central Pasco or Brooksville would be reasonable.

I think it is a bit overkill to extend it up to Citrus county, they should put one at northern Pinellas because we don't have I-275 and the traffic on US 19 and McMullen Booth Road is getting worse.

Down in Manatee and Sarasota counties, building another highway east of I-75 would be a huge mistake IMO. Instead, they should turn US19/301 into a limited access highway from I-275, all the way down to near DT Sarasota, before turning east and southeast to hook back up with I-75 somewhere well south of Fruitville Rd. Believe me that thing would be packed... And not only would it help I-75, but it would also help US41 and the E-W feeders, and have the added benefit of encouraging growth in, not out.

I don't see why we need to encourage more sprawl by building a ring around east Tampa anyways. If they want to build roads, then focus on in-town stuff for a while, before building new feeder highways which exacerbate the in-town traffic even more.

I think it is a bit overkill to extend it up to Citrus county, they should put one at northern Pinellas because we don't have I-275 and the traffic on US 19 and McMullen Booth Road is getting worse.
I thought they were going to make US 19 in northern Pinellas entirely limited access with frontage roads up to the Pasco County line. Some maps I've seen actually show this beyond the actual portions that were converted to limited access.

Down in Manatee and Sarasota counties, building another highway east of I-75 would be a huge mistake IMO. Instead, they should turn US19/301 into a limited access highway from I-275, all the way down to near DT Sarasota, before turning east and southeast to hook back up with I-75 somewhere south of Fruitville Rd. Hell make it a tollroad. Believe me that thing would be packed... And not only would it help I-75, but it would also help US41, and have the added benefit of encouraging growth in, not out.
A Manasota Parkway? I like this idea, and it would actually go somewhere useful to the population center...

THis is as big a joke as them talking about widening Bruce B. Downs....

Tivo --- the County Commissioners want you to believe that and talk about 19 as beign a limited access highway in the future -- but minor roads still intersect with 19 through mid to north pinellas and are allowed standard access to the highway while also the commercial spots tend to have tons of access points along the road and not through frontage.

This is why I personally get pissed off looking at Mass Transit plans in the area. In Pinellas' "plan" for a monorail, it stops at Enterprise Road while it's the North County people who have to do most of the heavy commuting. (it's also why I get sick of seeing Tampa/Pinellas connectiosn through south-county with no top-of-the-bay connection. But that's another story).

Top of the bay doesn't have enough density to justify the cost. Also, the commute pattern up there is ambiguous. It's not like everyone who lives there works in Westshore. Most probably work in Oldsmar and mid Pinellas.

This is why living in the sticks sucks bro.

I think the amount of sprawl encouraged by this thing would depend on the routing. If it broke of from I-75 around Port Charlotte to the south, run north along the county lines, and reconnect with I-75 around the SR50/Brooksville exit, it might really behave as a true bypass road for being too far inland. And, ofcourse, it would most likely be a toll road.

As for north Pinellas, US 19 is slowly coming together in Clearwater with Drew Street, and then Coachman and Sunset. It will probably be another 10 years or so before we start to see any noticeable signs of that corridor being close to complete. I just wonder why they aren't coming at it from both ends. Since the road could be fairly easily converted through Tarpon Springs and north Palm Harbor, why not get it going there as well? I guess there's only so much money to go around.

While we're speaking of roads, will they ever connect the Veteran's Expressway with I-275 and I-75, completing the circle around Tampa? The New Tampa residents could then have a stoplight-free route to Westshore and the airport without taking I-275.

This road will probably be built and be something like the turnpike is in S. Florida. Since we live in a mass-transit hating state (at least at this time), then it will be essential to have both an alternate and a very capacious I-75. Sarasota is expected to be at 1 million people by 2020, and Manatee is developing at a phenomenal level with plans for ranch houses to basically cover the county much as they do Pinellas. Tampa Bay is going to be as populous as Miami is now in only a decade or so, and probably will get to be as populous as Houston area before 2050, so I think there will be a lot more new roads than just this one. Probably an alternate to I-4, too. And a state legislator told me at a party that there are long term plans being discussed for a cross state toll road from Manatee Co./Hillsborough Line area to I-95 (Just north of Palm Beach). People always thought the West Coast was a nothing, but I think that mentality is dead. Its only a matter of years before Tampa is "world-class," its just unfortunate that outside of the urban cores in Tampa, St. Pete, Orlando and Sarasota it will be a sprawling South California-style mess.

^I don't know if the area is going to go that crazy. Job growth has certainly slowed down bigtime lately, with little impetus to get it going again.

I agree Sarasota is definitely growing, but the Tampa metro not as much so.

^^^

Jasonhouse is right on about another highway east of I-75 in Sarasota & Manatee counties. The problem is with I-75 itself. I live in Venice, FL, which is about 20 miles south of Sarasota, and I-75 narrows to four lanes (going both ways) just south of SR681, and this area is seriously prone to accidents and very high traffic. Proposing a spur highway route in between US301 and I-75 through Sarasota and Bradenton would be helpful in alleviating the traffic in the area, especially with siphoning off the traffic off I-75. The problem with Venice & North Port (which are both in Sarasota County) is that there are no North/South routes except US41 and I-75. Three recent car accidents in the past week are testimony to the fact that there needs to be more routes within southern Sarasota County from North Port to Venice, with crossings on the Myakka River. Widening I-75 to at least three lanes each way from SR681 through Charlotte County would help some, but a lot more needs to be done to avoid the constant bumper-to-bumper mess in the SRQ area.

Jasonhouse - that's really not true, except for in maybe some specialized cases.

As for highways in Saasota - good luck getting anything north/south west of 75. My opinion is that they should have made University Parkway as spur going to 41 because the east west roads getting to 75 are going to become too clogged - but why would they have foresight?

They clearly need a road - probably in south Pasco - going from 19 across the Suncoast/Veterans to 75. It is planned, but I don't know if it will ever get built.

If they build another N-S highway west of I-75, then the E-W roads benefit as well, because now folks won't be on them for so far (trying to get out to I-75), allowing traffic to build up. (and this is so obvious, especially at the rushes)

Now, we all know full well that they won't build the road I'm suggesting, but they sure as hell should. Building east of I-75 makes it pointedly clear that road building isn't about facilitating traffic flow, it's to facilitate sprawl.

A new tollway east of 75? That has to be a joke. The only areas that new new expressways are Sarasota-Manatee, as Jasonhouse mentioned, and well, a bunch of places in Pinellas, particularly north Pinellas. What they really need to do is take this money and spend it on efficient mass transit and road improvements in already developed areas, but that's asking for a miracle.

Now remember, I'm in La-La Land, so anything can get done. There are no NIMBYs!


For the rest of the region, I'm quite certain that I would focus on three roads...

1) Getting US19 turned into a completely limited access road from 118th St in mid-Pinellas, all the way up to Holiday in Pasco (later extend to SR52, and then to Hernando county line)...(remember, it's already in the works that US19 will link to I-275 via 118th Ave Connector)...

2) Build a shorter version of the Bi-County Expressway in Pasco asap. Just make it go from I-75 near Wesley Chapel, to US19 near Hudson...(later extend to Zephyrhills)...these two combined would greatly streamline traffic for N Pinellas as well as south Pasco. The biggest impact would be that drivers coming/going north (ALOT of traffic) could now bypass Tampa all together to get anywhere in Pinellas... Why these two projects weren't done at least 15 years ago is beyond me.

3)Extend the Crosstown down SR60 all the way out to the Redman Pkwy, where it will then turn NE to pass by the Lakeland airport, and link with SR570...Then from SR60, run a bypass following Redman Pkwy/CR39 south to Boyette, where it would turn SW, to link up with I-75 near Big bend Rd... this would give Tampa/St Pete bound drivers an I-4 bypass from Polk City, all the way to I-75, DT Tampa and beyond. Plus, it would greatly improve through traffic on SR60, which is an increasingly used link with the se part of the state. Additionally, it would serve to allow drivers going to/from SW Florida to bypass I-4/I-75 congestion.


Oh, and I would without question make all limited access portions toll roads. That wouldn't even be up for discussion.

this could be the route FDOT is looking at....they are not sure if it will be interstate or tolled...
http://www.bn9.com/images/news/2005/1/14/belt1.jpg

considering how the western(veterans), southern(crosstown) and the northern(new tampa) beltway are all toll...this one probably will be too.

^ Umm it looks like the areas they will cover are most in not that developed areas..

A new tollway east of 75? That has to be a joke. The only areas that new new expressways are Sarasota-Manatee, as Jasonhouse mentioned, and well, a bunch of places in Pinellas, particularly north Pinellas. What they really need to do is take this money and spend it on efficient mass transit and road improvements in already developed areas, but that's asking for a miracle.

Yeah, I know that won't happen..."when it snows in Florida." So our best hopes is a limited access US 19 since the traffic lights make it worse.

i think it has to do with the fact that we have added more people in the past 4 years than in the last decade(90-00).

^who has, I didn't realize the area was growing that fast. Polk appears to be at the same pace as it was in the late 1990's. Well it looks like the new loop road will provide quick access to the proposed mega airport on the Polk/Hardee County border.

WOOOW thats a giant beltway!
that will probably be only minutes from disney,
do they really need this massive beltway?

Yeah, who's growing that fast? From what I've seen of population and job stats, the local growth isn't all that stellar. The raw numbers are sizable, but don't represent a higher rate than the past or most other Florida metros. Tampa is actually one of the areas growing the slowest.

Tampa Bay "Beltway"

2003
Citrus County 126,458
Hernando County 143,449
Hillsborough County 1,073,407
Manatee County 286,804
Pasco County 388,906
Pinellas County 926,146
Polk County 510,458
Sarasota County 346,793
Total : 3,802,421

2000
Citrus County 118,085
Hernando County 130,802
Hillsborough County 998,948
Manatee County 264,002
Pasco County 344,768
Pinellas County 921,495
Polk County 483,924
Sarasota County 325,957
Total : 3,587,981

Change (2000-03): 214,440
Total 1990-2000 Change: 322,769

---------------------------
Tampa MSA

2003
Hernando County 143,449
Hillsborough County 1,073,407
Pasco County 388,906
Pinellas County 926,146
Total: 2,531,908

2000
Hernando County 130,802
Hillsborough County 998,948
Pasco County 344,768
Pinellas County 921,495
Total: 2,396,013

Change (2000-03): 135,895
Total 1990-2000 Change: 210,210

And this trend should continue through this decade.....job growth has been the largest in the state too.

By putting a major road in an underdeveloped area the state hopes to push developement to an Eastern 'line' like the turnpike is in South Florida. This way it has a clear boundry between the agri-industrial center (which needs new roads desperately because counties out there can't afford the upkeep from all the semis cutting through the center between East and West metros). And growth levels are phenomenal. People though 75 wasn't needed because "no one was coming" to Manasota and Ft.Myer's back in the 70's, but that turned out to be a fallacy, and now 75 is getting congested. Plus, this route makes it possible for people going from SW Florida to go to Orlando without going through Tampa, and if growth rates remain as projected, then Tampa roads will be horrendous.

Also, and new western spur into Manasota to alleviate congestion on Tamiami wont happen, Sarasota hates new roads and the people would be up in arms about it, though I agree that it would be convenient and 75 should have been put closer to the coast than it was.

Well, I guess I should buy some land east of Plant City then....

Tampa Bay "Beltway"

2003
Citrus County 126,458
Hernando County 143,449
Hillsborough County 1,073,407
Manatee County 286,804
Pasco County 388,906
Pinellas County 926,146
Polk County 510,458
Sarasota County 346,793
Total : 3,802,421

2000
Citrus County 118,085
Hernando County 130,802
Hillsborough County 998,948
Manatee County 264,002
Pasco County 344,768
Pinellas County 921,495
Polk County 483,924
Sarasota County 325,957
Total : 3,587,981

Change (2000-03): 214,440
Total 1990-2000 Change: 322,769

---------------------------
Tampa MSA

2003
Hernando County 143,449
Hillsborough County 1,073,407
Pasco County 388,906
Pinellas County 926,146
Total: 2,531,908

2000
Hernando County 130,802
Hillsborough County 998,948
Pasco County 344,768
Pinellas County 921,495
Total: 2,396,013

Change (2000-03): 135,895
Total 1990-2000 Change: 210,210

And this trend should continue through this decade.....job growth has been the largest in the state too.



I don't have the time or inclination to go through all of these numbers, but they are totally flawed.

I went to Census.gov and just looked up the population figures for the Tampa metro. The growth from 1990-2000 wasn't "210,210"...The population was 2,067,959 in 1990... The gain was thus about 328k, not 210k as you say.

Also, the numerical growth for the metro is projecting to be about 388k for the decade. But guess what? That numerical increase results in a miniscule rate increase. The growth rate has inched up from 15.9% per decade, to 16.2%... Tampa isn't even in the top 100 US metros for growth rate.

Your assertion that the growth rate in the area has nearly doubled is incorrect.

Jasonhouse, you aer correct and wrong at the same time. The growth rate is not that great, but the growth rate on he eastern side is. You have to remember that Pinellas is basically dead weight in terms of population growth stats.

I think this Beltway Idea is silly. Why encourage more sprawl when what we need is more density? If the state wants to build a highway, it should be North-South through Pasco and Northern Pinellas AND/OR East-West through Southern Pasco.

IMO, Pinellas made a HUGE mistake not to build an elevated expressway in the northern part of the county 20 years ago when it had a chance.

Looking at the map, I can't even imagine how that serves the residents of the Tampa Bay area. It looks more like a way for tourists to bypass Tampa Bay who are headed to destinations south.

I guess If I lived in Crystal River and needed to get to Lakeland in a hurry it might be a great route!

^yeah, now that'sd a route which needs a few billion dollars invested in it...


Crystal River to Lakeland...:ohno:

"Crystal River to Lakeland"

Man that would provide great access to the big farmers market in Webster. It would also avoid the traffic congestion on 301, in the metropolis of Dade City. Why invest in HSR when our money would be better served easing the horrific traffic situation in Zephyrhills? Once this one gets built, maybe we can take a serious look at extending it to Perry or building a loop expressway around Wauchula. Why not, its only a couple of billion dollars, not HSR. lol

lol... I still can't get my mind around the sheer audacity of this scheme.

I don't know what the DOT is thinking. I can't believe they actually set aside 500,000 to do a study on this.

There are numerous other road projects that need to be done around this area before we should even be conceiving of building this useless bypass. There is honestly no reason that the metro should ever need to sprawl that far inland, and frankly, I don't want any form of manmade infrastructure there, providing the impetus. Where this road goes is basically the only portion of west central Florida that hasn't been hemmed in by development. And until we NEED that land because of crushing population demands, I prefer that we build inward, upward and intelligently in the mean time. This area is notorious nationally for having some of the most piss poor planning, and this only fuels that.

Uggghhhh! The very fact that someone in government even thought this was worth exploring is pissing me off!

Yeah, if they have the willies to spend billions for a new highway, why not use it to transform US 19 into an expressway or extend the Veterans, to connect with I-275 and I-75, just north of town?

Yeah, if they have the willies to spend billions for a new highway, why not use it to transform US 19 into an expressway or extend the Veterans, to connect with I-275 and I-75, just north of town?

I know, take them freakin' traffic lights off of there!!!! :lol:

Yeah, if they have the willies to spend billions for a new highway, why not use it to transform US 19 into an expressway or extend the Veterans, to connect with I-275 and I-75, just north of town?

Exactly!!

LAKELANDER's RIGHT !, AN Interstate ( I-475 or I-675 ) BY-PASS From I-75 South of BRANDON to I-4 EAST of BRANDON TO WALT DISNEY WORLD. That will pass up all of TAMPA AREA, lol.

^^^^That is the idea. It makes it easier to move around Tampa traffic rather than through it, for people going from say Gainesville to Ft. Myers or Port Charlotte to Orlando Area or Atlanta to Sarasota. While I'd rather see the DOT build some trains along the state's interstates this too will alleviate congestion, though it will unfortunately contribute to ranch house sprawl and other hideous monstrosities that are built along such roads.

^^^^That is the idea. It makes it easier to move around Tampa traffic rather than through it, for people going from say Gainesville to Ft. Myers or Port Charlotte to Orlando Area or Atlanta to Sarasota. While I'd rather see the DOT build some trains along the state's interstates this too will alleviate congestion, though it will unfortunately contribute to ranch house sprawl and other hideous monstrosities that are built along such roads.

If their really interested in moving traffic around Tampa, then connecting the Veterans Expressway to I-275 & I-75 would become top priority. I fail to see the need to spend billions of dollars for an I-75 bypass. There's always been a need for a loop road around Brandon, from I-75 to I-4, but there's no need for anything connecting I-4 to I-75 north. This money would be better spent addressing the region's real traffic problems.

^I think the Bi-County thing proposed for Pasco is even more important, since it would provide an expressway connection between US41, the Suncoast Expressway and US19. (plus it would help alleviate traffic on SR52+54) I don't see why building this road as a toll road hasn't been explored. It would surely get plenty of traffic to provide funding, with a reasonable toll.

I think the Brandon Bypass from I-75 to I-4 is in Hillsborough County's transportation plan. They should've applied that $500,000 toward building that if they must build a bypass.

"If you think Pasco County's a bit crowded today, take a gander 20 years from now. Another 104,000 homes could boost Pasco's population by 200,000 to 300,000."

"The 2000 census counted 344,765 people in Pasco. Census estimates last year revised the number of county residents upward to 390,000."

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/01/30/Pasco/New_homes_expected_to.shtml

also, the county numbers were correct in the post, i must have left something out while coming up with the 90-00 count in the earlier post. sorry.

So now that Rick Scott is going to build this....its no longer a dead topic.

Does anyone have the proposed route of this?

Does anyone have the proposed route of this?
This is the only one I could find. I'm sure there are bay area people with more knowledge about this project that can chime in.

Source:Toll Road News (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/)

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa236/heartofflorida/mpttrib.gif


Article: http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/1644

Through in the full conversion of US 19 to a freeway in Pinellas and the loop is complete.

So now that Rick Scott is going to build this....its no longer a dead topic.

Where does it say He wants to build THIS particular project. I think you have it confused with the Heartland Parkway project which is separate. Can you point me to the article.

^^
I'm pretty sure I've heard about this project being revived also. Not just Heartland Pkwy.