Here are some pictures of the new Athens tram. I did not notice a thread only for the tram (unless I missed it). Alot of the pictures are from our friend Gregory. (gm) :cheers:


Map

http://www.athens2004.com/images/Transportation/TransportTramsEN.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040719/capt.sge.ofi65.190704114408.photo00.default-384x256.jpg

http://194.30.220.72/news/static/04/07/21/tram-21july04.jpg



http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gr/trams/Athens-tram-testrun3.jpg

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gr/trams/Athens-tram-testrun1.jpg

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gr/trams/Athens-tram-testrun2.jpg

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm2263/19249/291110/0/Tram+1+-+Syntagma.jpg

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm2263/19249/291122/0/Tram+lines+-+Amalias+Avenue.JPG

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/losad77/25864/306798/0/DSC02567.JPG

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/losad77/25864/306797/0/DSC02566.JPG

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/losad77/25864/306800/0/DSC02569.JPG

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm2263/19249/291112/0/Tram+3+-+PF.jpg

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm2263/19249/291111/0/Tram+4+-+PF.jpg

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm2263/19249/291115/0/Tram+6+-+PF.jpg

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm2263/19249/291124/0/Tram+2+-+PF.jpg

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm2263/19249/291114/0/Tram+5+-+PF.jpg

Beautiful!
Can you tell me, how long is this modern tram line, and how long is the entire tram network in Athens? And if you could maybe show us some maps? And also, for the metro, if possible:)

Thanks.

Those were built by italian Ansaldo-Breda,right?

Woow it looks very nice and modern :okay:

Some more pics of the Athens tram, this time from the air:

http://www.athens2004.com/Images/Multimedia/images/10MayTramFloisvos_p.jpg

http://www.athens2004.com/Images/Multimedia/images/10MayTramGlyfada_p.jpg

http://www.athens2004.com/Images/Multimedia/images/10MayTramAlimos_p.jpg

http://www.athens2004.com/Images/Multimedia/works_in_progress/image/20jul1882212tram1p.jpg

http://www.daniilidis.gr/main/olympic/images/23040437502.jpg

http://www.daniilidis.gr/main/olympic/images/508_23.jpg


Old meets new. :D

http://www.athens2004.com/Images/Multimedia/works_in_progress/image/20jul1882164tramP.jpg

Beautiful!
Can you tell me, how long is this modern tram line, and how long is the entire tram network in Athens? And if you could maybe show us some maps? And also, for the metro, if possible:)

Thanks.

The map of the tram network (26 km long) from the official website (http://linuxweb.internet.gr/tramsa/html/en/index.php)

http://linuxweb.internet.gr/tramsa/media/common/tram_map.jpg

As for a combined metro-tram map... here you go (from www.urbanrail.net)

http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/ath/athens-map.gif

Very nice photos!
:okay:
Polì wrios.
:)

Those were built by italian Ansaldo-Breda,right?

yes... those were designed and build by Ansaldo-Breda

Great thread Christos!

I love the new trams!

Excellent thread!!!!

bump (add any pictures if you have)

Very modern tram, looks good

they look very smart and futuristic. I especially like the beautifully cut grass that highlights the path of the trams... very nice.

Very nice and modern. :okay: When were the first trams installed in Athens?

athens was the place where i saw my first tram :D. my aunt was so suprised when i told her NYC didn't have them.

i never seen a tram either, how fast do these things go

Never seen a tram? Are you Amish? Lol.
They dont go very fast (trams in general as pretty slow), or atleast not as fast as Athens needs.

he's in NYC we don't have trams here. I never saw a tram either untill i went to Athens.

In NY they use the word tram for what we call teleferik (I spelled it phonetically, dont know the right spelling) That's a "NY tram": http://ktransit.com/transit/usnymetro/newyork/other/Photos/ny-tram-051903-03.jpg

thats not a tram. lol we call that a telefrik in albania also.

i never seen a tram either, how fast do these things goWell, I'll tell you. They don't go very fast, the stops are too frequent and there are also the traffic lights on the way. Also I once missed a tram and I had to wait 30 mins in the stop (on a snowy day!) for the next one to come while in the metro you wait only 5 mins. It's very frustrating actually. I feel so unlucky I'm in a region covered by tram cause that means they won't expand the metro in my region, and trams are extremely slow and inconvient compared to metro.

no giorgos i never seen a tram, NY doesnt really have them and in Albania they dont have them either..well i guess if u consider these sky things trams i guess they have them now in Tirana...But again NY is huge and instead uses subways etc, faster transportation...i dont know if Athens really needed a tram because they have a subywa, and ive seen it its pretty nice...especially the station where they found all those old things and they have mosaics etc...but trams make the city just look better and more exotic i guess
Alemo- ur Albanian?

as far as i know in other cities trams can go with a maximum of 60km but they rarely catch that speed bc of the short distances

Alemo- ur Albanian?nope, I'm Greek.

^^sorry, i thought so cause u said we call it "teleferik"...the "trams" of NY lol

lol we call them teleferiks and trams too

lol ok, u spelled it the same exact way as we do too that's why for a second i wondered lol

teleferik is too long of a word for this- in NY we don't have time for such long words- tram- short and simple. :)

it works for us.

but NY doesn't have tram. the tram in athens seems very nice but the metro is something that the government needs to focus on more imo. both were clean and amazing but the metro is much more important than the tram. however it's nice to have a tram for coastal views and such. just my opinion.

^ Yes thats pretty much what they have planned on.

The tram covers the beach and coastal areas, and also links to the city centre. The Metro is what they are focusing on, currently it is expanding and has plans to expand even more in the future. The tram is nice for a trip to the beach or something, but the metro is where the quality is at.

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/3553/mapbigdowngr1zt.jpg

I'm so gald Athens is focusing on mass transit (they need it badly). They have done a wonderful job with the tram and the metro.

By April 2007 the Monastiraki-Egaleo extension will be ready.
By mid 2008 the same line will reach Haidari
The same year the extension of line 2 towards Peristeri (my neighborhood :) ) and Anthoupoli will be also ready
The same year line 3 will add three new stations in E suburbs like Aghia Paraskevi
As for the extension to Helliniko of line 2 will be also ready by late 2008 early 2009
The same year line 3 new stations extension to Pireas will be commissioned

Future extensions plans include a new line covering the north central areas of the city Galatsi, Kypselli, etc linking them with the city center as well as another one to the Northern suburbs of Psychiko, Filothei, Maroussi, etc.

At least by 2010 Athens will surpass the 120 kms from the current 91 kms of metro coverage (keeping on mind that not long before by 1999 the total service was of just 25 kms!).

They say that by 2012 the Metro of Thessaloniki will be ready. But I'll tell you what it could be even earlier since when I was a kid back in 1994 I had the opportunity to visit one of the stations under construction (Panepistimio) and when I asked the overseer when he expected the metro would be ready for the public he answered me that with some luck my grandchildren would see it (I left the place with some disappointment and a little trauma that Athens would look like that, full of holes and semi-closed streets for a loooooong time :wink2: ) and as you can see 6 years later the first phase was commissioned. :nocrook: (and we are talking about a much larger project in terms of kms than that of Thessaloniki).

So I wouldn't be surprised if they finish the metro in Thessaloniki or at list part of it by 2010.

Wait, Thessaloniki Metro has been U/C Since 1994?? :eek:

The "Panepistimio" station is located in Athens and its entrances are facing the historical building of Athens University.


I believe that the Thessaloniki metro can be ready within 5 years from groundbreaking. It is linear and if I was the minister, I would already be making plans for the expansion to Mikra airport.

And my view about Albania: The more I see it, the more I believe that certain Albanian cities can immediately benefit from a tram system similar to the one in Athens. Tirana, may consider the possibility of a light metro at some point in time and now is the time for Eddi (is the man still there? ) to consider a plan of traffic from management before the city centre is flooded with cars like it happened in all of Europe and especially in Athens.

Economic development has its tolls, what can we do...

It's a pity that the Piraeus prefecture rejected plans for the expansion of the tram system in the city. Of course they know better, but the expansion of the blue metro line will be ready after several years and something has to be done about traffic in Piraeus.

Believe me! As someone who had to use the tram several times, NO region wants this stupid, extremely slow and inconvient thing. Plus the roads that have to be compromised create much more traffic. Metro is 100 times better. It is faster, the stops are less frequent, it is underground, there are no traffic lights, and the trains come and go way faster so you don't have to wait half an hour like in tram's case. Tram sucks! It was a huge mistake! I wish the coastline was covered by subway. The rest of Athens is or will! That's unfair!

']Wait, Thessaloniki Metro has been U/C Since 1994?? :eek:

LOL...no :) . It was supposed to be built some 17 years ago...but that's another story...

We're waiting for the construction to begin in May/06 :okay:

Believe me! As someone who had to use the tram several times, NO region wants this stupid, extremely slow and inconvient thing. Plus the roads that have to be compromised create much more traffic. Metro is 100 times better. It is faster, the stops are less frequent, it is underground, there are no traffic lights, and the trains come and go way faster so you don't have to wait half an hour like in tram's case. Tram sucks! It was a huge mistake! I wish the coastline was covered by subway. The rest of Athens is or will! That's unfair!

You're right for a big city such as Athens. But smaller, better planned cities find tram the best solution for traffic problems. In case of Athens, metro seems to be the best one :okay:

Giorgo file moy read well what I wrote, in 1994 the construction zone was in Athens and Panepistimio station is in Panepistimiou and Korais in Downtown Athens.

As for Thessaloniki as far as I know they never even try to get a shovelful out of its ground in order to make the metro, not so until May when everything is going to be ready for the beginning of the works. And I agree with GM in five or even 4 years they can finish it (anyway remember we are in Greece and you can find ancient sites underground step by step as the works go on, so that raises some delays to these kinda works).

You're right for a big city such as Athens. But smaller, better planned cities find tram the best solution for traffic problems. In case of Athens, metro seems to be the best one :okay:

Believe me! As someone who had to use the tram several times, NO region wants this stupid, extremely slow and inconvient thing. Plus the roads that have to be compromised create much more traffic. Metro is 100 times better. It is faster, the stops are less frequent, it is underground, there are no traffic lights, and the trains come and go way faster so you don't have to wait half an hour like in tram's case. Tram sucks! It was a huge mistake! I wish the coastline was covered by subway. The rest of Athens is or will! That's unfair!

Alemo and Kostya i disagree a bit with this kind of thinking...
The tram does not work so well because of the incapability of the state to make it work efficiently.

Obviously the metro is better but also you forgot the factor "cost" and there is a HUGE difference.
Also for places like suburbs which are less concetrated than the center , it is more cost efficient.
Also lets not forget that if the tram worked properly , and that means to give to the trams PRECEDENCE and to reduce the many stops then it would be MUCH better.
Traffic lights could be almost eliminated with the exception of 2-3 big roads , but instead of that we experience something crazy in Athens , that means too many lights were the tram has to stop just for leting cars to pass. In a modern way of thinking , who cares for the cars ? Let them suffer in the traffic untill their drivers learn to use the public transportation media.

The "Panepistimio" station is located in Athens and its entrances are facing the historical building of Athens University.


I believe that the Thessaloniki metro can be ready within 5 years from groundbreaking. It is linear and if I was the minister, I would already be making plans for the expansion to Mikra airport.

And my view about Albania: The more I see it, the more I believe that certain Albanian cities can immediately benefit from a tram system similar to the one in Athens. Tirana, may consider the possibility of a light metro at some point in time and now is the time for Eddi (is the man still there? ) to consider a plan of traffic from management before the city centre is flooded with cars like it happened in all of Europe and especially in Athens.

Economic development has its tolls, what can we do...

ye Edi Rama is still there, and i agree they do need to get some kind of transportation system except for buses lol, the tram looks really cool, makes the city look very european if you know what i mean...plus, it looks like one of those tourist trams which carries tourists around and shows them the city, if Tirana built one it would be beneficial for them to do it...The metro though takes years, if it's all built underground though it will be good, as long as it doesnt affect what's above the ground...

BTW, i rode the athens metro, all of it is built underground right? cause here in NY it comes out above ground in some areas too

is this NYC's tram :rofl:
http://phasor.industrialnewyork.com/archives/photos/May3.jpg

Alemo and Kostya i disagree a bit with this kind of thinking...
The tram does not work so well because of the incapability of the state to make it work efficiently.

Obviously the metro is better but also you forgot the factor "cost" and there is a HUGE difference.
Also for places like suburbs which are less concetrated than the center , it is more cost efficient.
Also lets not forget that if the tram worked properly , and that means to give to the trams PRECEDENCE and to reduce the many stops then it would be MUCH better.
Traffic lights could be almost eliminated with the exception of 2-3 big roads , but instead of that we experience something crazy in Athens , that means too many lights were the tram has to stop just for leting cars to pass. In a modern way of thinking , who cares for the cars ? Let them suffer in the traffic untill their drivers learn to use the public transportation media.


Couldn't agree more :okay: . I think you didn't understand my previous post. What i wanted to say is that in the current way tram operates in Athens it is not as efficient as it is in smaller cities around the world. Something must be done for this, cause tramways is low-cost mass transportation media which use should be encouraged.

Also for places like suburbs which are less concetrated than the centerBut P. Faliro for instance which is covered by tram is one of the most highly populated suburbs. Other suburbs like Chaidari are less populated but the subway will expand there. The reason why we got the tram in Southern suburbs is that there was the need for a transporation media to the Olympic Venues across the coastline in time for rhe Olympics and there wasn't enough time or resources for the subway. Like kostya said trams work for smaller cities kai tha peosthesw kai pio organomemes.

Traffic lights could be almost eliminated with the exception of 2-3 big roads I couldn't agree more

In a modern way of thinking , who cares for the cars ? Let them suffer in the traffic untill their drivers learn to use the public transportation mediaWell here in tram's case it's the other way around. Let the ones who want to use the public transporation suffer! (Akouste loipon proswpiki ebeiria. Pernaw sxedon kathe mera tin Axilews. Mia prwin leoforo sto P. Faliro pou twra pleon exei metatrapei se steno dromaki me mia lwrida ana katefthinsi logo tou tram. Ekei loipon exoun katargithei oles oi aristeres strofes gia na meiwthwi o xronos anamonis sta fanaria gia to tram. Alla ws gnoston oi Ellines de tha boun sti diadikasia na kanoun dexia-aristera-(poly)efteia-aristera-efteia-pali fanari. Etsi loipon synostizontai aftokinita panw stis grammes tou tram pou perimenoun tin katallili stigni na kanoun aristera. Otan gemisoun oi rages aplws koboun tin kykloforia gia aftous pou theloun na pane efteia parolo pou to fanari einai prasino kai i pinakidia me tin apagorefsi gia aristera terastia (ta kornarismata, oi moutzes kai ta epifonimata synefo ap tous pisw alla de bariesai, to poly poly na adapodwsei ki aftos pou kleinei to dromo me mia moutza. Sto katw katw exei valei to flash, ti allo thes?). Ki ama thelei na persasei to tram kai exei amaxia???? E loipon to tram tha perimnei ta amaxia na adeiasoun!) So even though I totally agree that in a modern way of thinking the cars should suffer more than the public tranportation passengers, I'm forced to use my car even though I'd love to use the transporation instead. I mean the subway is great and very convinient but the tram NO THANX! Xyloste to! Way too slow! It takes 40-45 mins from P. Faliro to the center using the tram and 10-15 mins by car!

No, almost all the METRO lines in the world have parts over ground. In the case of Athens you got line 1 which has parts over ground as well as parts underground. And the proastiakos line or line 4 which goes to the airport goes also overground as well as line 3 in the part that joins with line 4 or proastiakos going to the airport. Anyway the majority of the network of Athens is underground, the ratio is similar to that of NYC or Paris these two later both having parts above and underground.

Giorgo file moy read well what I wrote, in 1994 the construction zone was in Athens and Panepistimio station is in Panepistimiou and Korais in Downtown Athens.

As for Thessaloniki as far as I know they never even try to get a shovelful out of its ground in order to make the metro, not so until May when everything is going to be ready for the beginning of the works. And I agree with GM in five or even 4 years they can finish it (anyway remember we are in Greece and you can find ancient sites underground step by step as the works go on, so that raises some delays to these kinda works).
Oh, yes. I didnt read the rest lol. As soon as I saw 1994 I go OMG! lol.

Giorgo file moy read well what I wrote, in 1994 the construction zone was in Athens and Panepistimio station is in Panepistimiou and Korais in Downtown Athens.

As for Thessaloniki as far as I know they never even try to get a shovelful out of its ground in order to make the metro, not so until May when everything is going to be ready for the beginning of the works. And I agree with GM in five or even 4 years they can finish it (anyway remember we are in Greece and you can find ancient sites underground step by step as the works go on, so that raises some delays to these kinda works).

No no no... They had even digged a hole once in early 90's

Read: metrothessalonikis.tk

Plus, according to the experts, there have been a research about ancient sites underground and they already know where they will find them and how to *treat* them :). This will hopefully eliminate the delays :okay: . Also, some of the stations have been moved few metres for the same reason.

I think everyone should read this:

- http://metrothessalonikis.tripod.com/TEXNOGRAFIMA295-10.pdf
- http://metrothessalonikis.tripod.com/TEXNOGRAFIMA295-11.pdf
- http://metrothessalonikis.tripod.com/TEXNOGRAFIMA295-12.pdf


I hope soon we'll have a "Thessaloniki metro construction news" thread :cheers:

tram cars look very modern
congratulations

O hlektrikos "bythizetai" apo Neo Falhro pros Peiraia kai dinei th thesh tou sto tram!

http://ta-nea.dolnet.gr/print_article.php?e=A&f=18692&m=N17&aa=1
http://www.in.gr/news/article.asp?lngEntityID=755240&lngDtrID=244

Prasine thanks but this forum is a bit different then stadia.gr, please post such short threads (and without pics) to the rellevant thread.
Have alook first at hellenic agora and its subthreads before you post something
:)

I malakia ston kyvo. Sorry, I can’t translate this expression into English, but it’ s the best way to describe this new project. Just imagine having tramways running above metro trains, whereas all tram passengers would fit in just one metro car. It would be much cheaper to improve interconnection between tramway, metro and buses at Neo Faliro, building escalators and travolators, so that passengers can move quickly from one means of transport to the other. Anyway, in 2013 subway line 3 will reach downtown Piraeus, providing connection to line 1 and suburban railway.

I like the design very much!

Just a question, can we call it a LR? Or the correct is just tram?

Do you mean Light Rail??? I don't think so...As far as I Know usually they call light rail the trains that go on the suburbs of a city and are like metro trains in contrast to the...let's say "heavy" rail with big commercial and passenger trains that travel between cities...Guys if anyone has an other opinion...help!!:?

Well, actually it's not a tram, but neither a metro.

Check this website about light rail:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail

In March 2004, 4 months before the tramway system was put into service, I wrote an article entitled “Why I am going to snub the tramway” in a Greek website. Among other things I predicted its failure to serve the relevant areas faster than the pre-existing bus system. I quote that article without changing a single dot. Unfortunately it is too long for me to translate into English. Anyway it would be difficult to transmit its vivid style into a language different from my native Greek.

Γιατί θα σνομπάρω το τραμ

Με την ευκαιρία της ανακοίνωσης των επεκτάσεων του τραμ θα ήθελα να προβάλω ορισμένα επιχειρήματα κατά αυτού του μέσου. Στους υποστηρικτές δίνεται κατά καιρούς βήμα από την τηλεόραση για να εκθειάζουν τα προτερήματα του τραμ. Όμως οι πολέμιοί του έχουν εξαφανιστεί, σαν να μην υπάρχουν μειονεκτήματα. Οι αντιρρήσεις που έχουν ακουστεί κατά καιρούς είναι μεν βάσιμες, αλλά αφορούν δευτερεύοντα θέματα, όπως η εξαφάνιση μερικών χιλιάδων θέσεων στάθμευσης ή η μείωση, κατά τη διάρκεια της κατασκευής, του τζίρου μερικών καταστημάτων.

Ο κυριότερος λόγος για τον οποίο δεν συμφέρει η κατασκευή του είναι ότι δεν συμβάλλει στη γρηγορότερη μετακίνηση των επιβατών. Ενώ γίνεται μια αξιοσημείωτη επένδυση για τις γραμμές και το τροχαίο υλικό (περίπου 450 εκατομμύρια Ευρώ), δεν υπάρχει το αντίστοιχο όφελος, ούτε για τους επιβάτες ούτε για την πόλη γενικότερα.

Παρενθετικά αναφέρω ότι τα μέσα μαζικής μεταφοράς έχουν σημαντικές εξωτερικές οικονομίες, δηλαδή ωφελούν ακόμα και εκείνους που δεν τα χρησιμοποιούν, αφού χάρη σε αυτά μειώνεται η κίνηση των ΙΧ. Γι' αυτό άλλωστε το κράτος αναλαμβάνει αγόγγυστα τα ελλείμματα των εταιρειών αστικών συγκοινωνιών. Αντίθετα το τραμ προκαλεί εξωτερικές αντιοικονομίες, δηλαδή βλάπτει με διάφορους τρόπους τους περιοίκους.

Υποτίθεται ότι το τραμ θα πείσει αρκετούς οδηγούς να εγκαταλείψουν τα ΙΧ τους! Για να γίνει όμως αυτό θα πρέπει πρώτον να εξυπηρετεί η συγκεκριμένη διαδρομή και δεύτερον να υπάρξει σημαντικό χρονικό όφελος για κάποιον που θα επιλέξει το τραμ.

Η παραλιακή ως γνωστό έχει μεγάλο πρόβλημα το καλοκαίρι με τους εκδρομείς προς τις νότιες παραλίες και τα σαββατοκύριακα με τους εξοδούχους προς τα νυχτερινά κέντρα. Για τις δύο αυτές περιπτώσεις το ΙΧ είναι αναντικατάστατο. Εκεί που θα μπορούσε να ωφελήσει το τραμ είναι το καθημερινό πήγαινε-έλα στη δουλειά. Όμως, σύμφωνα με τα δεδομένα της εταιρείας που το κατασκευάζει, η διαδρομή Ν. Φάληρο-Γλυφάδα θα διαρκεί 35 λεπτά, η διαδρομή Ν. Φάληρο-Σύνταγμα 35 και η διαδρομή Παλ. Φάληρο-Σύνταγμα 23. Ο χρόνος που κάνει σήμερα το λεωφορείο είναι παρόμοιος ή και μικρότερος τις ώρες μη αιχμής. Η σύγκριση με το ΙΧ είναι βεβαίως συντριπτική κατά του τραμ.

Επειδή σαν λαός δεν φημιζόμαστε για την οικολογική μας ευαισθησία, αν κάποιος έχει να επιλέξει ανάμεσα σε ένα γρήγορο μέσο που ρυπαίνει και το τραμ που δεν ρυπαίνει (τουλάχιστον όχι την Αθήνα) αλλά πάει σαν χελώνα, θα επιλέξει το πρώτο! Γι' αυτό πρέπει να ληφθεί μέριμνα ώστε τα μέσα σταθερής τροχιάς που κατασκευάζονται να συνδυάζουν τη χαμηλή ρύπανση και την υψηλή ταχύτητα. Τέτοια μέσα είναι το μετρό και ο προαστιακός σιδηρόδρομος (όχι ντιζελοκίνητος φυσικά). Το τραμ, ακόμη και όταν διαθέτει δικό του διάδρομο επιφανειακά, δεν μπορεί καν να πλησιάσει σε ταχύτητα το μετρό. Αν συγκρίνουμε τη μέση εμπορική ταχύτητα στο Βερολίνο, όπου συνυπάρχουν και τα τέσσερα μέσα, θα δούμε ότι το τραμ είναι το πιο αργό με 18,2 χιλ./ ώρα. Τα λεωφορεία, παρόλο που έχουν να αντιμετωπίσουν το μποτιλιάρισμα, επιτυγχάνουν 19,13 χιλ./ ώρα. Το μετρό 30,7 χιλ./ ώρα και ο προαστιακός σιδηρόδρομος 38,3.

Εδώ μας λένε ότι η ανώτατη ταχύτητα των βαγονιών του τραμ φθάνει τα 70 χιλ. την ώρα άρα δεν απέχει και πολύ από τα 80 του μετρό. Όμως στην πράξη το τραμ δεν θα ξεπερνάει τα 40 χιλ. την ώρα. Και τούτο διότι το τραμ χρειάζεται πολύ μεγαλύτερη απόσταση για να φρενάρει απ' ότι ένα αυτοκίνητο. Από αυτή την άποψη τα 40 χιλ./ώρα στο τραμ ισοδυναμούν με 75 χιλ./ώρα στο αυτοκίνητο. Και δεδομένου ότι οι γραμμές θα διασχίζονται παντού από πεζούς και θα έχουν πολυάριθμες διασταυρώσεις με δρόμους, ο οδηγός δεν θα ρισκάρει να πατήσει "γκάζι". Εξάλλου σε πολλές πόλεις όπου κυκλοφορούν τραμ υπάρχει όριο ταχύτητας πολύ χαμηλότερο από την ανώτατη ταχύτητα που επιτρέπει η μηχανή τους.

Ένα άλλο επιχείρημα που προβάλλεται από τους υπέρμαχους του τραμ είναι ότι κυκλοφορεί σε εκατοντάδες πόλεις σε όλο τον κόσμο. Παραλείπουν όμως να αναφέρουν ότι οι περισσότερες από αυτές είναι μικρομεσαίου μεγέθους. Οι πόλεις με πληθυσμό άνω του 1 εκατομμυρίου δεν βασίζονται στο τραμ ως μέσο σταθερής τροχιάς. Επίσης οι διαδρομές που καλύπτονται είναι εντός ακτίνας λίγων χιλιομέτρων από το κέντρο της πόλης. Σε πολύ σύντομες διαδρομές το τραμ πράγματι καταλήγει να είναι γρηγορότερο από το μετρό, αφού ο επιβάτης δεν καθυστερεί με το κατέβασμα και το ανέβασμα στους σταθμούς του μετρό. Όμως το να διανύει κανείς 20 χιλιόμετρα με τραμ, και μάλιστα καθισμένος πλαγίως, είναι μια ταλαιπωρία που λίγοι θα δεχτούν να την υποστούν, εκτός ίσως από τους τουρίστες που τρελαίνονται να βλέπουν παραλίες και βαρκούλες.

Άλλο επιχείρημα υπέρ του τραμ είναι ότι το κόστος κατασκευής του ανέρχεται στο 1/8 ως το 1/6 εκείνου του υπόγειου μετρό. Όμως παραβλέπεται ότι το μετρό έχει εξαπλάσια μεταφορική ικανότητα από το τραμ (60.000 επιβάτες ανά ώρα και κατεύθυνση έναντι 10.000 του τραμ). Έτσι το κόστος κατασκευής ανά μεταφορική ικανότητα είναι παρόμοιο. Επιπλέον κατά τη διάρκεια της λειτουργίας το μετρό δεν προκαλεί όχληση στους περιοίκους, ενώ το τραμ θα παρεμποδίζει τη λειτουργία της πόλης για δεκαετίες, μέχρι να βρεθεί πάλι κάποιος πολιτικός για να το ξηλώσει!

Αυτό που μπορούμε να κάνουμε σαν πολίτες είναι να μην το χρησιμοποιούμε ως επιβάτες για να καταλάβουν οι ιθύνοντες ότι δεν πρέπει να σπαταλήσουν άλλους πόρους στις επεκτάσεις των γραμμών. Τα χρήματα που θα εξοικονομηθούν πρέπει να δαπανηθούν στην επέκταση του μετρό που είναι το μόνο μέσο μαζικής μεταφοράς που αναβαθμίζει την Αθήνα.

Ο προαστιακός σιδηρόδρομος είναι μεν γρήγορο μέσο, αφού φθάνει σε ταχύτητα τα 120 χλμ. την ώρα, αλλά στη συγκεκριμένη διαδρομή που κατασκευάζεται προβλέπονται σταθμοί σε αραιοκατοικημένες ή ακόμα και ακατοίκητες (!!!) περιοχές. Επιπλέον καταλήγει στο Σταθμό Λαρίσης που είναι απαράδεκτος για κεντρικός σταθμός μεγαλούπολης των 4 εκατομμυρίων. Στις αναπτυγμένες χώρες τέτοιοι σταθμοί υπάρχουν μόνο σε απομακρυσμένα χωριά. Είναι δυνατόν να έρθει στην Ελλάδα ένας τουρίστας, να μπει από το υπερσύγχρονο αεροδρόμιο στον προαστιακό και να αποβιβαστεί στο Σταθμό Λαρίσης; Και μετά να πάρει τις βαλίτσες ανά χείρας και να περάσει με τα πόδια πάνω από τις γραμμές; Έλεος!
Συμπέρασμα: Μετρό και πάλι μετρό.

Φίλε μου έχεις απόλυτο δίκιο σ' αυτά που γράφεις...βέβαια τώρα πια το έργο έγινε...οπότε ίσως θα μπορούσαν να γίνουν κάποιες διορθώσεις για να μπορεί το τραμ να κινείται γρηγορότερα χωρίς να υπάρχει κίνδυνος για τους πεζούς (κυρίως)...Γενικά πιστεύω ότι θα ήταν εύκολο να τοποθετηθούν καλαίσθητοι σιδερένιοι φράχτες ή 3άλφα ή υαλοπετάσματα από fiber glass έως 1,5 μέτρο ύψος εκατέρωθεν των γραμμών του τραμ, ώστε να μην διασχίζει ο καθένας τις γραμμές όπου του κατέβει, παρά μόνο από συγκεκριμένες διαβάσεις με φανάρια...Πρέπει και οι δήμοι που διασχίζει το τραμ να ενδιαφερθούν...
Από εκεί και πέρα εγώ αν έμενα στις περιοχές που εξυπηρετεί σε διαβεβαιώ ότι μπορεί να μην το χρησιμοποιούσα για τη δουλειά, λόγω χαμηλής ταχύτητας, αλλά σίγουρα θα το χρησιμοποιούσα για βόλτα και διασκέδαση...και μακάρι να το χρησιμοποιούνε οι θαμώνες των κέντρων της παραλίας, από το να επιστρέφουν...μεθυσμένοι με τ' αυτοκίνητά τους!
Πάντως θέλω να πιστεύω ότι αν στο τμήμα Σύνταγμα - Φάληρο το τραμ ακολουθούσε τη διαδρομή κατά μήκος της λεωφόρου Συγγρού καταλαμβάνοντας τον παράδρομο ή μια από τις ακραίες δεξιές λωρίδες δεν θα υπήρχαν αυτά τα προβλήματα με την ταχύτητα και θα εξηπυρετούσε περισσότερο κόσμο. Αντίθετα τώρα περνά μέσα από πυκνοκατοικημένες περιοχές, με πολλές διασταυρώσεις...σαφώς και για μένα η χάραξη είναι λανθασμένη και αυτή είναι η αιτία των προβλημάτων...
:)

Προσωπικά ούτε στην Αθήνα μένω ούτε και την επισκέπτομαι συχνά, άρα δεν θα έπρεπε να με αφορά ιδιαίτερα το θέμα, παρ' όλα αυτά πιστεύω ότι το τραμ κατασκευάστηκε με μόνο σκοπό να εξυπηρετήσει τις ανάγκες των ολυμπιακών αγώνων, και άρα η μετέπειτα χρήση του δεν υπολογίστηκε ιδιαίτερα.

Παρ' όλα αυτά από το άρθρο σου μου μένει μια εντύπωση ότι επειδή προσωπικά είσαι αντίθετος θα έπρεπε και όλοι οι άλλοι να μποϋκοτάρουν το τραμ σαν μέσο μαζικής μεταφοράς.
Είτε σου αρέσει είτε όχι το τραμ κατασκευάστηκε και είναι ένα ακόμα μέσο που αν οι κάτοικοι της Αθήνας χρησιμοποιούσαν μαζικά θα διευκόλυνε τη ζωή τους, και ενώ και εσύ και εμείς έχουμε πληρώσει για αυτό το έργο δεν θα ήταν φρόνιμο να αδιαφορούμε για αυτό.
Το μετρό είναι ένα πραγματικά εκπληκτικό μέσο, που σού προσφέρει ταχύτητα όπως κανένα άλλο αστικό μέσο μαζικής μεταφοράς, δεν παύει όμως να έχει και πολύ μεγαλύτερο κόστος από το τραμ.

This is a historic picture. It shows Public Works Minister Konstantinos Karamanlis, destroying tramway tracks with a pneumatic drill in downtown Athens in 1953. This meant the beginning of the end of the extensive tramway network.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2172/xilomatramaz2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

My dream is to see one of his 2 nephews (for non-Greeks: one is Prime Minister and the other Minister of Transport) repeat the same gesture.

what is wrong with the tram?

This is a historic picture. It shows Public Works Minister Konstantinos Karamanlis, destroying tramway tracks with a pneumatic drill in downtown Athens in 1953. This meant the beginning of the end of the extensive tramway network.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2172/xilomatramaz2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

My dream is to see one of his 2 nephews (for non-Greeks: one is Prime Minister and the other Minister of Transport) repeat the same gesture.

No need to remind you that along with this another perfect project were completed in that period, the brilliant drain of lake karla.:bash: :bash:

^^

No Doubt, the same Karamanlis who introduced the 'Antiparohi' leginstlation that turned Athens Pireaus, Patras and other regional centres from graceful neo-classical towns into grotesque eyesores......:ohno: :ohno:

Einai ontos poli krima pou eginan teties energies eis varos tis Athinas kai allon megalon poleon. Alla ti mporouse na ginei- genika to exoume sto aima mas na kanoume vlakeies tis opoies metanoinoume meta. Autes oi energies mas epiuarinoun gia polla xronia. Prepei apo do kai pera na dixoume megaluterh dioratikotita. Zoume gia na elpizoume!!!

In this thread we are not discussing about other policies implemented by Konstantinos Karamanlis. Substituting trams by trolley busses was seen as a big step forward back then. Trams were too noisy and bumpy, while trolley busses had tyres, which made their movement smooth and noiseless. Years later, when the streets of Athens became clogged with cars, trolleybusses were reduced to the slowest means of public transport.

In this thread we are not discussing about other policies implemented by Konstantinos Karamanlis. Substituting trams by trolley busses was seen as a big step forward back then. Trams were too noisy and bumpy, while trolley busses had tyres, which made their movement smooth and noiseless. Years later, when the streets of Athens became clogged with cars, trolleybusses were reduced to the slowest means of public transport.

Well thats true, but i just gave an example on how not to worship those actions.
As for the tram, which is our subject at the moment, take a look into porto's metro, which actually is a combination of a tram and a metro
( http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=145721 )
Or seattle's light rail:http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=422473
or milan's tram or.....a lot more, just for claiming that tram is only for "small cities".

The tram may be slow, but it has opened up areas of Athens with a much more convenient and environmentally friendly form of public transport. A big step forward in the right direction, unlike Karamanlis' senior's actions in the 1960's. The Athens tram is a god send and should be appreciated by its citizens.

Will Athens tram be expanded in the future?

The tram may be slow, but it has opened up areas of Athens with a much more convenient and environmentally friendly form of public transport. A big step forward in the right direction, unlike Karamanlis' senior's actions in the 1960's. The Athens tram is a god send and should be appreciated by its citizens.


Completely agree. The tram should be seen as a complement to the metro...not as a slower alternative to the metro. As the metro and tram systems are expanded, it'll all start to come together, and people will start to see the grander plan for the valley's mass transit system. In the longer run, as the southeast suburbs are served by the metro, the tram will serve primarily as a shorter-distance public transport medium. The original Athens tram should have never been dismantled in hindsight, but the new one is very lovely and effective.

Will Athens tram be expanded in the future?

There are plans to expand the tramway line to downtown Pireaus, but first they will have to turn metro line 1 underground from Neo Faliro to Piraeus, so that the tramway line passes above the cut-and-cover tunnel.

This was the most stupid solution a human mind could think of. It is scheduled to be completed in 2010 but personally I have many doubts. You see, now there are no Olympic Games to press us to work harder.

There are also other plans to build a tram line along Thisseos str. in Kallithea. That is also an unfortunate proposal. The islet in Thisseos str. is very beautiful and green and it would be a pity to destroy it.

After Piraeus the tramway will head for the Western Suburbs, such as Keratsini. The historic tram to Keratsini and Perama followed an oblique route in comparison to the street grid. If the new tram followed the same route it would reach downtown Keratsini rather fast. But unfortunately it will be constructed in the streets, which means a very long travel time.

If they told it will get finished by 2010,It surely will.
What's the official site of tram?Does it have one like metro?

There are also other plans to build a tram line along Thisseos str. in Kallithea. That is also an unfortunate proposal. The islet in Thisseos str. is very beautiful and green and it would be a pity to destroy it.

Where have you seen such plans? I read that for the first time.

There are also other plans to build a tram line along Thisseos str. in Kallithea. That is also an unfortunate proposal. The islet in Thisseos str. is very beautiful and green and it would be a pity to destroy it.



I haven't heared anything about that either. Kallithea is already served by two line 1 stations and by bus. So i do not see the reason to do that. And it would really be a shame if the green islet was destroyed. It is not as if Kallithea has any green to spare.

... Kallithea also has Trolley busses, the busses that replaced the Tram back in the 50s. I dont see it very possible for Tram and Trolleys to operate side-by-side. And it isnt needed.

Τι θα γίνει με το τράμ όλο ακούω πως είναι πολύ αργό δεν σκέφτονται να το βελτιώσουν;

Old Athens tram pics

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3351/3311551353_70693685d5_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gichristof/3311551353/in/set-72157605625916741/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3303/3311551931_da7cce3bb2_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gichristof/3311551931/in/set-72157605625916741/)

Το τραμ όπως και το τρόλεϋ αν δεν έχει αποκλειστική λωρίδα κυκλοφορίας είναι δώρον άδωρον. Δηλαδή, η Αθήνα έχει εκτεταμένο δίκτυο τρόλεϋ, δεν θα μπορούσαν να κινούνται στο μεγαλύτερο μέρος τους σε αποκλειστικό διάδρομο; Τότε δεν θα φανεί τόσο άχρηστο και αργό μέσο. Αντίθετα, βάλε το τραμ μες στην κίνηση (όπως συμβαίνει εν πολλοίς στο δίκτυο του Μιλάνου, που πολλοί ζηλεύουν χωρίς ίσως να το γνωρίζουν πραγματικά) και το αποτέλεσμα θα είναι καταστροφή για όλους, και για τους επιβάτες του τραμ και για τα Ι.Χ.

Αντίθετα, βάλε το τραμ μες στην κίνηση (όπως συμβαίνει εν πολλοίς στο δίκτυο του Μιλάνου, που πολλοί ζηλεύουν χωρίς ίσως να το γνωρίζουν πραγματικά) και το αποτέλεσμα θα είναι καταστροφή για όλους, και για τους επιβάτες του τραμ και για τα Ι.Χ.
Ζηλεύουν το δίκτυο τραμ του Μιλάνου; :lol::lol::lol:

Πρόκειται για το πιο απηρχαιωμένο δίκτυο τραμ της Ευρώπης. Συνεχώς γίνονται ατυχήματα. Πριν από λίγο καιρό βρήκαν τη λύση: Επειδή τα αυτόματα κλειδιά έκαναν τη ζημιά, τα κατάργησαν! Έτσι ο τραμβαγέρης κατεβαίνει σε κάθε διασταύρωση και γυρίζει το κλειδί μ' ένα λοστό. Καθυστέρηση περίπου 2 λεπτών κάθε φορά.
Όμως τα ατυχήματα συνεχίζονταν. Έτσι ελήφθη ένα δραστικότερο μέτρο: Θεσπίστηκε ανώτατο όριο ταχύτητας 15 χλμ. την ώρα στο κέντρο της πόλης! :nuts:
Πιο γρήγορα πας με τα πόδια.

Για όσους καταλαβαίνουν Ιταλικά:

http://milano.repubblica.it/dettaglio/atm-la%C2%A0-ragnatela-degli-scambi-in-tilt-dopo-quattro-mesi-e-tutto-come-prima/1735607

http://milano.repubblica.it/dettaglio/tram-arriva-il-limite-dei-15-km-allora/1775647

^^ ελεινό και τρισάθλιο :P Πάτως το τράμ μια χαρά λειτουργεί, ακόμη και στη Σόφια. Το μοντέρνο τραμ της Κωνσταντινούπολης είναι πολύ γρήγορο. Για να μήν πόυμε για τα εκατοντάδες δίκτυα σε ολόκληρη την Ευρώπη.

Really nice photos of Athens' tram... i think we need few updated photos

Αν η νέα κυβέρνηση ενδιαφέρεται πραγματικά για τα μέσα μαζικής μεταφοράς πρέπει να δείξει πως στηρίζει όλα τα βασικα μέσα. Μετρό, τραμ,προαστιακούς, λεωφορεία, τρόλεϊ. Η αξιοπιστία είναι το βασικό σημείο όπου πρέπει να δωθεί έμφαση. Να έχει ο άλλος κίνητρα να αφήσει το ι.χ κ να πάρει λεωφορείο. Και δεν εννοώ αυτούς που δεν έχουν μπει σε λεωφορείο και τα έχουν βγάλει σκαρτα αλλά την πλειοψηφία ελπίζω που θα ήθελε να μπορεί να πάει στη δουλειά της χωρίς τα όποια προβλήματα φέρνει η χρήση του αυτοκινήτου.

Ακριβώς το ίδιο λέμε, Νάστυ. Το έγραψα επειδή ο Pilotos αναφέρθηκε στο τραμ του Μιλάνου μού φάνηκε με κολακευτική διάθεση και επειδή και σε άλλα threads τηε διεθνούς αγοράς κάποιοι θεωρούν το σύστημα του Μιλάνου παράδειγμα προς μίμηση. Το μόνο καλό είναι η έκταση, αλλά τι να την κάνεις όταν το μεγαλύτερο μέρος του συστήματος (πέρα από το ότι είναι απαρχαιωμένο) κινείται μαζί με τα υπόλοιπα μέσα μεταφοράς και φυσικά για "πράσινο κύμα" ούτε συζήτηση; Έτσι καταντάει χειρότερο από τα Αθηναϊκά τρόλεϋ λόγω του θορύβου. Και ναι, το ζήτημα της αξιοπιστίας είναι κορυφαίο και μπορεί να επιτευχθεί με όλα τα μέσα. Άλλωστε σε μια σύγχρονη πόλη όλα τα μέσα είναι απαραίτητα και πρέπει να λειτουργούν συμπληρωματικά.