I'm going to go ahead and create a thread here that I'm sure will be shut down, but I just wanted to share some items that I have had shared with me from various sources that I consider reliable.

The Hall house (a mid-rise home for the elderly at 8th and Tryon St.) will be torn down along with the police district office on the same block and will be replaced with a residential tower/s that will replace the 190 elderly-housing units as well as include some market rate housing and retail space and the future home for the Mint Museum of Art will be on the block as well (fronting College St. I believe).....expect some decent height on this one though I'm not about to speculate.

Of course a new high-rise condo tower on the site of the old convention center that will be in the 50-60 story range. Apparantly, people are already sick of hearing about this one so no more shall be said until the renderings are released.

This one I've only heard from one source so I'm not staking my reputation to it, but apparantly an agreement has been reached with the county for the Charlotte Knights AAA baseball team to build it's new stadium Uptown at the corners of 4th and Graham. This is where they have been wanting to go for some time now and apparantly they are getting it (much to my disway, I wanted them to tear down Memorial Stadium and build it there).

A funky new "old-warehouse conversion" looking thing is going up at Graham and I-277 named The Garrison at Graham. It's about 100' high and will have "optional hydrolic parking spaces".
http://thegarrisonatgraham.com

The Cour de Charlotte apartments on Queens Rd. have been demolished and luxury condos are going to be built on the site. The developer is Burt Gellman. If the name sounds familiar, he was the one planning a space needle for Charlotte "the world heritage tower or something like that" that was going to be twice as tall as the one in the Seattle. That of course never materialized and we got the Transamerica Building and 400 N Church instead.....still, perhaps he should add it to this project....the Myers Park Needle....I doubt the neighbors would mind.

The city plans to make a run for the NASCAR hall of fame to be located here. They envision it where the Hal Marshall County Services building on Tryon at 10th is. Personally, I see no reason for this to be downtown, and think it is more appropriate for the Univeristy area where the future LRT would run or along the south corridor. I especially would not want this project at all if it takes away potential money for all the other arts projects that have been waiting patiently.

If anyone else has any reliable news on future projects please post. No rumors please and hopefully the SSC gods will not deem this thread as such.

You mentioned the Mint Museum will front College Street...I guess that means the Carolina Theater conversion is not going to happen?

So that Garrison at Graham must be the new building designed to look like an old one that Lsyd keeps harping on. I kinda agree with him. On the other hand, it's a popular residential design that is selling like hotcakes nowadays, so if that's what the people want, that's what the investors will give them...even if it's not a real old building.

Still kinda corny IMO.

What is the difference for using older style archictecture now days? I mean, jsut ebcause it is not in its prime anymore, and its not "real" because it wasn't built 100 years ago, does not mean it still can not be somewhat respectible architecture.

Whoa, thanks for the update Atlrvr.

What is the difference for using older style archictecture now days? I mean, jsut ebcause it is not in its prime anymore, and its not "real" because it wasn't built 100 years ago, does not mean it still can not be somewhat respectible architecture.

Like I said, it's a popular look that is selling, so you can't blame an investor for building what sells.

I don't mind this building because it fits the streetscape well and will hopefully look like it has always been there. What I do not like is when we build old looking buildings out of some sort of guilt for not having original building stock. Prime examples of this are at CPCC's main campus and UNCC......where georgian neo-classical crap is the required architectual style. This is a new/modern city and we don't need to get caught up building shit trying to make the city appear older than it is.

atlrvr,
I am glad someone else sees this. In Atlanta we tore down a beautiful home many years ago in Buckhead to build a governors masion that is a barn trying to look like the mythic "Tara". It' a barn with colloums and a nice yard. It has about as much character as The Georgia Welcome Station at I-75.

We did not have a have a house in Atlanta that would fit someones warped imagination so what we got is a classsically furnished Barn.

You mentioned the Mint Museum will front College Street...I guess that means the Carolina Theater conversion is not going to happen?

I think it means just the opposite. The Mint was never going to move into the Carolina Theatre it was always going to build a new structure. The Carolina Theatre Redo was proposed as a modern art museum to house the Betchler collection of modern art in a facility seperate from the mint but still under the mint umbrella (like the craft and design museum). In an attempt to make things cheaper the idea was brought up to can the idea of a seperate museum and add a "betchler wing" to the new proposed uptown mint building. The Betchler camp didn't like the idea (for many reasons) and refused it. Since then the modern art museum seems to be up in the air but the most likely candidate seems to still be The Carolina. The new uptown mint building was supposed to be larger than what currently exists but to cut cost the Mint is in talks with an "unnamed developer" to locate in a new "unnamed N. Tryon development". This space they are in talks for will be a little smaller than what they wanted but will be much cheaper as the developer will take on some of the financial burden. But since it is a smaller space there is no way they will have room for the modern art collection forcing them to create a seperate structure (The Carolina) to house it. By the way, there is still an active preservation group out there looking to restore The Carolina Theatre back to its original apperance to be used as a theatre agian. It's my personal opinion but also pretty obvious that the group will have to do this with no help from the city. However if the Carolina is turned into the Betchler Museum city the ASC would foot the bill.

oresaw, now that you typed all that, I realized my mistake. I forgot that it was the Bechtler proposal that was to renovate the Carolina Theater. Thanks for the clarification.

Eh, well all of my post yesterday were fairly pointless in retrospect. On another note, I have a photographer freind who was brought into The Carolina Theatre to take pectures of all the architectual detailing inside for the preservation society. She showed me the pictures, they're all great. I'll see if I can't post them here sometime.

The Hall house (a mid-rise home for the elderly at 8th and Tryon St.) will be torn down along with the police district office on the same block and will be replaced with a residential tower/s that will replace the 190 elderly-housing units as well as include some market rate housing and retail space and the future home for the Mint Museum of Art will be on the block as well (fronting College St. I believe).....expect some decent height on this one though I'm not about to speculate.


This is getting closer to an announcement I hear....also, it appears there will be a residential AND office tower (separate towers) on the block.....AND not only will the Mint be here, but it seems that the Betchler Museum of Modern Art will be on this block too...though separate from the Mint.......expect about a early March announcement on this one!!!!

No Style.....it appears that nothing is happening with the Carolina Theatre then.....tis a shame......I hope something happens soon and as much is preserved as possible..

That sounds like some good news.

is bofa developing this since they own that block? it would be a good sign if theyre interested in developing more office space downtown.

well....they aren't one to be outdone by Wachovia and just 1 cultural ammenity......where would our skyline be without corporate ego....

Maybe if Betchler moves to this other block and the ASC isn't interested in The Carolina Theatre the city will finally let it go to a preservation group.

This new project will really bridge the gap in the skyline between Hearst and Odell.

Sweet!!!! I know you said you didn't know about height, but just on pure speculation, how tall do you think this one will be?

Pure speculation......office tower -> 28-32 stories.........condos/elderly home -> 22-26 stories.....hopefully this will have ground floor retail and undergroung parking.......i'm having a tough time imagining the site plan for this....I would assume office tower at the corner of Tryon and 7th.....the residential tower at Tryon and 8th being narrow and extending all the way back along 8th......possibly the Betchler on Tryon between them and the Mint on College behind the office tower in a 2-3 story buidling....furthermore, Center City Partners now wants the 2 blocks between College and Brevard to become the 1st ward park with a statue garden for the Mint.......I like this idea except I do have trouble with the rail line cutting the park in half.

Cant you just imagine you young little lads playing in the park and getting hit by a train!?

I wish they would build a tower in the 50-60 story range. We have no 50 storiers in CLT.

BoA is 60 stories skysdalimit.

Well yeah, sorry, I meant in the 50s.

for a city Charlotte's size and with as much land available as there is, there really isn't a need for anything over 40 stories. Charlotte is relatively tall for such a mid-sized city. While I'll never be upset to hear that someone wants to build a new, tall skyscraper, I'm just as excited when I hear about large low- and mid-rise developments, that will fill in Uptown's surface lots.

True, but along Tryon they are filling up space pretty fast, and we have to think about the future, because the parking lots won't be there forever, and we need space to grow and a maximum numbers of uptown residents and workers to enliven uptown.

when are the shovels gonna start to go in the ground for some of these projects? I've heard about so many announcements in the past 12 months, yet the only ones I see u/c is the courtside in 1st ward and city view apartments on graham.

charlotte guy......TradeMark will begin in March (demolition of the Center City Inn will occur then) and Novare's 35 story building will begin in April.....I really don't think The Park will happen.....M Street will start in March....The Renwick should start next month......The Garrison at Graham will probably start in June......that's about it for the center city for the first half of the year.....it's a lot though!!

True, but along Tryon they are filling up space pretty fast, and we have to think about the future, because the parking lots won't be there forever, and we need space to grow and a maximum numbers of uptown residents and workers to enliven uptown.

Do you honestly believe that they are filling up space on tryon? banks are not filling up any new spaces in charlotte. from mergers they have to do PR and sent jobs to other cities or they will look like crap and the merger will be for nothing. thinking about the future has only built one building in uptown. if you dont know which one that is, it was currently bought by cornerstone properties and is adjacent to where trademark will be. uptown's office market is not too hot hence why buildings are converting or being renovated to update them to the market needs. that's also why cornerstone plaza has gone nowhere, for years.

Yes, it seems that Uptown's office market is 'not too hot', as you say, but then again 99% of this country's CBDs would best be described as ICE COLD by comparison. Uptown has one of the lowest vacancy rates in the nation, and has one 700,000 square foot office tower planned. But nobody is building on speculation, so things seem quiet. Projects like Cornerstone have left us disappointed, but I'd still rather be in Charlotte's shoes than in the shoes of many other cities where vacancy rates are through the roof. As quiet as it seems, the market is ripe for an office boom that could hit very suddenly. Right now things are just filling in nicely Uptown. I'm still optimistic that we'll hear about some new office projects sooner than you might think.

In the mean time we'll just have to deal with this condo highrise boom, and enjoy our new arena, childrens learning center, metro school, and courthouse. Again, most other cities wish they were in Charlotte's situation.

Looking toward the future....the US usually experiences an economic upturn after a war...so if we get our asses out of Iraq and the economy rebounds I think construction in charlotte's central area will really heat up.

Do you honestly believe that they are filling up space on tryon? banks are not filling up any new spaces in charlotte. from mergers they have to do PR and sent jobs to other cities or they will look like crap and the merger will be for nothing. thinking about the future has only built one building in uptown. if you dont know which one that is, it was currently bought by cornerstone properties and is adjacent to where trademark will be. uptown's office market is not too hot hence why buildings are converting or being renovated to update them to the market needs. that's also why cornerstone plaza has gone nowhere, for years.

There is a lot less property along Tryon still available for development compared to other parts of Uptown, so yes, space is filling up, so we need to build up.

Looking toward the future....the US usually experiences an economic upturn after a war...so if we get our asses out of Iraq and the economy rebounds I think construction in charlotte's central area will really heat up.

Good god ! I think we need to experience a full-blown recession so some of you guys can experience a truly bad economy.

tru dat, Dale. Coming from Buffalo, I can't help but be amused when Charlotte forumers talk about the economy 'rebounding'. This city is ABSOLUTELY BOOMING compared to where I came from. :)

Someone should post pictures of ALL the current proposals...

Do you honestly believe that they are filling up space on tryon? banks are not filling up any new spaces in charlotte. from mergers they have to do PR and sent jobs to other cities or they will look like crap and the merger will be for nothing. thinking about the future has only built one building in uptown. if you dont know which one that is, it was currently bought by cornerstone properties and is adjacent to where trademark will be. uptown's office market is not too hot hence why buildings are converting or being renovated to update them to the market needs. that's also why cornerstone plaza has gone nowhere, for years.

I agree, Norm. I think a lot of the folks on this board are too young to remember the 1980s. I lived in Dallas at the time. When the feds changed the tax code in 1985, it hurt real estate in an instant. So the moral is that anything can happen and the market can turn on a dime. Also, get used to a lot of projects to be announced without ever seeing the light of day. This happened lots of times in Dallas and Atlanta when I lived there. It still happens in large markets.

Personally, I fear that at least one of the big banks will move to NYC. When you think about it, it makes sense on so many levels. Of the two, I think BofA is the most likely to do that. They're no longer the regional bank that they were for years, and there are lots of New Yorkers at the top of the organization. These folks have no ties whatsoever to here. Plus, they're building an enormous building in Manhattan, and they're not shy about calling it their new HQ. Sure, it's their NY HQ. ;)

I feel like I keep having this same conversation. Yes, BofA is building a new tower in NY....so what? They have large skyscrapers in Atlanta, Miami, Dallas, Seattle, San Fran, Houston, Tampa......and I'm sure I missed a few. Wouldn't it make sense for them to have one in New York? It's not exactly a small town, and it is the banking center for the country where they have the second most employees.

BofA has 5 high-rise buildings in Charlotte, not including Gateway village. They are close to announcing another, plus they have identified the site for another to be built in about 6 more year after that. The total square footage the occupy in Charlotte is over 2.5 times what they will have in New York even if the Rockefeller space is long term. Sometimes it's good to be in unassuming Charlotte. The bottom line is this. When investment banking was the primary money-maker, NY would have made a lot more sense than it does now. They are a deposit heavy institution. Charlotte is where all that work is handled, and Charlotte will always be where that is handled.

On a different note, Wachovia announced the other day that they are bringing some high level equity market jobs to Charlotte from Baltimore.

On yet a different note....I'll share this link I found on Urban Planet.
http://www.thelakepaper.com/articles/2005/02/02/news/news02.txt
JRQ......you'll love this!

That would be comforting if the rumors didn't persist. I do think that as long as McColl is still living, that BofA will be based here. And Norm is right, that downtown vacancy is fair to poor. Plus, both banks have announced major outsourcing plans. It just doesn't take much to move a company HQ anymore, especially where you already have a major presence.

Now, I could see the bank moving basically its address to NYC and keeping a lot of the support divisions here. This would impress the Euro'turds.

On a similar note, my son is a senior at Duke. He wants to take a job at one of the banks in Charlotte. He is so surprised that so many of his classmates do not want to go to Charlotte. It's first NYC, then Atlanta. I do think that being here is still somewhat of a liability in recruiting for the banks. I know, it's hard to believe. But remeber, we're talking about 20-somethings... and they want the excitement of the big city.

^^^ That last point is the one I'd agree with most. Charlotte has come along way though, and before the end of this decade, I believe Charlotte will transcend into the league of "large cities". I'm not professing that Charlotte will be of equal size or importance as Atlanta, but I am saying that it will begin to have the same national appeal when discussing large southern cities to move to.

I agree that as long as Hugh McColl is still alive the bank is going to go anywhere. He worked ahrd to keep the bank's HQ in Charlotte, and if anyone even thinks about or tries to move the HQ to NYC in his life.....im sure he'll bitch slap the mo fo's!

I feel like I keep having this same conversation. Yes, BofA is building a new tower in NY....so what? They have large skyscrapers in Atlanta, Miami, Dallas, Seattle, San Fran, Houston, Tampa......and I'm sure I missed a few. Wouldn't it make sense for them to have one in New York? It's not exactly a small town, and it is the banking center for the country where they have the second most employees.

So what? According to BoA's web site, the new tower in New York will house BoA's global corporate and investment banking, wealth and investment management and consumer and commercial banking businesses. There will also be six major trading floors in the new tower. So, this isn't about BofA adding another large skyscraper to its portfolio.

And like I said, none of these are their primary lines of business....that is still in Charlotte. Investment banking was close to becoming a top-money maker, but the fall of the stock market hurt them significantly.

You're right, it's not about adding another tower to their portfolio. BofA does not have a single tower in NY. This tower is used to consolidated the several dozen small office spaces they have spread throughout midtown and downtown. Charlotte isn't losing employees to NY. Boston is, but Boston is also losing some to Charlotte (and Charlotte is losing some to Boston). This tower is not for them to have their HQs, it's so that the existing people can be consolidated and the business units there can grow.

^ How many employees does BofA have in uptown Charlotte?

^ How many employees does BofA have in uptown Charlotte?
There are about 9,700 B of A employees uptown in 10 buildings.

So what? According to BoA's web site, the new tower in New York will house BoA's global corporate and investment banking, wealth and investment management and consumer and commercial banking businesses. There will also be six major trading floors in the new tower. So, this isn't about BofA adding another large skyscraper to its portfolio.

twincities...BofA is still and will always be just a blip on the radar screen in NYC. That town will always be ruled by the investment banks like Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, Bear Stearns, ad naseum. Commercial banks are the poor bastard stepchildren. And BofA shall remain a commercial bank.

I dont understand what the fuss is all about...BofA has huge towers in almsot every friggin large city anywhere in the country...and many of the smaller cities too so them adding one tower in NYC doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

From what I've gathered in the past, there's no reason to leave because being based in NC allows these banks to go based on (loose) NC regulations. That is also why Delaware has become such a hotbed for bank headquarters, loose regulations as compared to other states. So why 'move'?

Update on the new tower/Mint project......it now appears that the Hall house will be saved and there will be one new tower containing office space and possibly condos. Also, the Betchler museum has withdrawn from the project. There is no new plan to house the Betchler anywhere. Some members of city council are protesting not maximizing the infrastucture by having the two museums together, but it looks like this deal will be approved without the Betchler....... <- time may be running out on Charlotte getting this collection.....meanwhile, it looks like an official announcement will be released next month to provide the details of this new development.

I know we in Charlotte always demolish buildings, however I really wish they would demolish the Hall House - I find it unsightly.

I dont want it demolished. I am sure that it can be fixed up to look nicer. I am sure that all of the buildings in NYC arent all pertty either.

I'm glad hall house is staying personally. I'm really worried about the Betchler Collection. Does the city honestly not care or do you think not paying attention to the collection is a scare tactic they are using to push private investors into action. I can't imagine Charlotte being stupid enough to throw away an opportunity like that but then again I could be wrong. Of course if the money isn't there then I guess it just isn't there.

They should make the bechtler colelction more of a priority than the mint museum. the mint moved out of the city decades ago and they can still live with that decision a little longer.

Well......it all comes down to stubborness......Betchler doesn't want his collection overshadowed by the Mint's and is concerned it will be treated like a bastard child, and the city doesn't want to have to foot the bill for two art museums when one bigger one would be cheaper........ahhhh.....a far cry from our European peers I'd say....

This is troubling. What's the word on the street about this art museum? Dead deal? God forbid (seriously) that it be given to another city! Talk about your bad press, and talk about a city government that would need its ass kicked if that happened!

Bechtler himself didnt want his artwork sharing space with the Mint. He did not like that idea at all. So it is him that is making this more difficult.

Gee, I hope they can pull something together here - it would suck if this collection went away.

I won't fault Bechtler, after all the man is donating over 20 million dollars in artwork. He simply wants a museum space to showcase the art in the best possible light and an enviroment tailored to a very unique collection of artwork. Personally I think he and his art deserve that. It is just a question of how to make that happen.

^^^ That last point is the one I'd agree with most. Charlotte has come along way though, and before the end of this decade, I believe Charlotte will transcend into the league of "large cities". I'm not professing that Charlotte will be of equal size or importance as Atlanta, but I am saying that it will begin to have the same national appeal when discussing large southern cities to move to.
I'm curious about this ATL stuff.....of course Charlotte can become the size of ATL and importance ...Atlanta isnt that huge to where Charlotte isnt in reach......Atlanta is mmore dense thats all ........Charlotte is already a very important city so dont underestimate that fact...I'm from NY and I love it here , its growing in the right direction and it will be better off than the city of ATL in the future with all the smart growth and plans..

Another thing there is alot of negativity in this thread alone about the city you live in and i'm asking myself do some of you guys visit other cities and see the differences....Charlotte is very much on the right track and it has probaly more construction and new buildings,high rises and residential towers than all middle size cities and alot large cities.There are plenty of people moving here for a better quality of life every month.Whether you know it or not this city is very much envied and put down because of the smart growth and potential, and that's stupid but it's the american way.No one wants the other person ahead of them.

^ I hope you weren't interpretting my comments as criticism of Charlotte....I was praising it. My point was that Charlotte will be the next city to become a "large" city....as far as the disclaimer about Atlanta, you have to add that around here or risk getting stabbed in the eye with a fork.

^ I hope you weren't interpretting my comments as criticism of Charlotte....I was praising it. My point was that Charlotte will be the next city to become a "large" city....as far as the disclaimer about Atlanta, you have to add that around here or risk getting stabbed in the eye with a fork.
LOL...I know man...I was just saying that alot of people put this city downa dn it wasn't directed towards you man....lol........but I want to thank you man for your infomation and replys on here because I see you have your shit together on projects being built or designed and that helps alot of us out, to see whats going on in this city.....!!

I'm curious about this ATL stuff.....of course Charlotte can become the size of ATL and importance ...Atlanta isnt that huge to where Charlotte isnt in reach......Atlanta is mmore dense thats all ........

That's just not true. Atlanta is a FAR larger city (we're talking several times the size of Charlotte, it's got nothing to do with density) with more money, more major HQs, more national presence, more everything if you think about it. You're right that Charlotte is on the right track and is quickly becoming a much more prominent city than in the past... but so is Atlanta. It's ridiculous to think that Charlotte will EVER catch up to that kind of benchmark. Atlanta is a top 10 city... Charlotte is trying to break into the top 25. It's on a totally different level.

I think Charlotte can become what Atlanta currently is, but of course Atlanta will continue to grow also...which was justadude's point. There isn't nearly as much difference between Atlanta and Charlotte as one might think, though. Charlotte needs some more office space (preferably in the form of nice skyscrapers ;)) and a touch more density, but other than that it really just needs another 2 million people worth of sprawl.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I think that too many citizens of Charlotte have listened too much to too many people from outside that hate Charlotte. Chances are, these people would hate any place they live other than their home town. I think that Charlotte is definately on the right track. I've lived all over the world.

I think Charlotte can easily become a better city and metro than Atlanta. I haven't visited either place for about 5 years, but from what I can remember, Charlotte definitely has a lot of potential. And in regards to skyline, Charlotte should be able to surpass Atlanta in aesthetics. The announcement of a new Bank of America tower will help.

since that which usually happens, happened -

south park!

http://southernuprise.com/photos/03_08/south_3_80001_re.jpg

My my my, look who's back :). Long time no see, Style.

why thank you, joseph. :)

Actually, thank me...kind of.

Ok, don't thank me, since I was also he who banished.

jason - your avatar seems a little grainy from those of old ?

thanks to you too. :p

Yeah it does...wtf?

I'm gonna have to get it redone. I don't know how that happened, I guess he got old? :lol:

I thought I had some type of smear on my computer screen, lol. What a shame, he's aging so quickly.....:)

It's like he has the jpeg measles or something.

lol. i think jan just went to the database and said 'compress all of jasonhouse' and the database took it all out on your avatar.

Speaking of servers, did you know this damn place has grown so much that the quad chip server we've got will soon be replaced by a scalable server array?

i'm in the know. dont you worry. :p

Atlanta has more top 500 HQ's but not by much. Considering the size of Charlotte, it's top 500 HQ's are (unparalled?) for a city it's size?

still talking about atlanta in a thread on charlotte development?

still talking about atlanta in a thread on charlotte development?

I see the Great and All Powerful OZ has returned. Did you forget your reading glasses?

The message I was responding to is this:

Atlanta is a FAR larger city (we're talking several times the size of Charlotte, it's got nothing to do with density) with more money, more major HQs, more national presence, more everything if you think about it.
Posted by Jasonhouse.

Exyankee and Style...


A few things...


One, ExYankee...I DID NOT post the above quote you attributed to me. Justadude did.

Two... Style, work on your reading comprehension man. ExYankee was backing Charlotte.

Three... Style, leave the modding to me and JMancuso, and your odds of not getting banned again become extremely good. Start getting mouthy with folks and... Well, just don't make me do something I don't want to do, OK man?

sorry about that exyank. read that one wrong.

it seems a lot of these forums seem to be city v city in many of the threads which is getting annoying. we have a thread on the development of charlotte and a lot of it turns into 'omg no, not charlotte. but here is what atlanta is doing. ya'll cant ever...' and stuff. it gets old after a reply.

i have to put in my two cents because i must say style has a point. the p&c forum is really taking away from the southeast forum, because that is where all the quality discussions come from, while there is nothing to talk about in the southeast forum but pics and a few discussions.

One, ExYankee...I DID NOT post the above quote you attributed to me. Justadude did.

And to be clear, I was only responding to the claim that the only difference between Charlotte and Atlanta is density. I'm not trying to make this into a "vs." thread, just responding to a patently incorrect assertion.

it seems a lot of these forums seem to be city v city in many of the threads which is getting annoying. we have a thread on the development of charlotte and a lot of it turns into 'omg no, not charlotte. but here is what atlanta is doing. ya'll cant ever...' and stuff. it gets old after a reply.


Yes, it does get old. VERY OLD.
PM a mod when it pops up and we'll handle it. That's why we exist.

Highland Mill adding apartments, pool, gym, retail, business center

DOUG SMITH



The owners of North Charlotte's 101-year-old Highland Park Mill No. 3 are preparing to add 74 more rental lofts as they convert the building and grounds to an urban village.

Winter Properties opened the first phase of 90 apartments late last year in what it's calling simply Highland Mill, on North Davidson Street between Mallory and 33rd streets.

With nearly 65 percent of those initial units leased, the Atlanta company plans to start an estimated seven-month renovation in June for the next phase, which includes the 220,000-square-foot complex's signature mill tower.

"We will preserve the tower -- one of the major historic features of the building," said Winter Properties Chairman Bob Silverman, who plans to make it an amenity everyone can share.

As part of the new phase, expected to cost about $10 million, Winter Properties also will construct a swimming pool, fitness center and business center.

The company's experience so far indicates a strong preference for smaller two-bedroom apartments that roommates can share. And this time, most of the units probably will have two bedrooms with mezzanines, Silverman said.

Lofts in the first phase were dubbed "authentic," including light, airy open spaces, concrete floors, large windows, exposed wooden beams and ceilings as high as 21.7 feet.

They ranged in size from 996 to 1,974 square feet, but only four had two bedrooms. The others were one-bedroom units.

Rental rates haven't been determined for the second phase, but current Highland Mill residents will have priority on leasing them, Silverman said.

The remaining first-phase units are leasing for $735 to $1,330 a month, said apartment manager Angela DeHart.

The renovation project includes the mill's 11,000-square-foot dye house, which is being converted to retail space. Silverman said the first tenant -- a small restaurant/pub -- is to open in June.

The final phase of the development will be about 30 new townhomes on mill property along Mallory and 33rd streets.

Winter Properties' goal is to create a diversity of uses and housing types in an urban village within two blocks of the heart of NoDa at North Davidson and East 36th streets.

In the early days, people flocked to the area for mill jobs. The business district, known as North Charlotte's "downtown" once included a hotel, two drugstores, grocery stores, a police station and a movie theater.

Blight was threatening to overtake the neighborhood in late 1970s and 1980s, when entrepreneurs -- mainly artists, musicians and dancers -- began to reclaim mill houses and fuel interest in galleries, shops and restaurants.

Today that wave of urban pioneers has been joined by commercial developers eager to satisfy a demand for new and renovated dwellings.

Highland Park Mill No. 3, which opened in 1904, was designed by architect Stuart Cramer, who also designed the North Charlotte mill village and the two-block business district.

Historians say he always considered Highland Park Mill No. 3 his masterpiece.

The building is listed on the national Register of Historic Places.

For information, check www.highland-mill.com or call (704) 377-1994.

Doug Smith's Notebook

• The six-county Charlotte area apartment vacancy rate rose slightly in February to 10.7 percent from 10.5 percent in August 2004 as new units came on the market, according to the Charlotte Apartment Index.

But even so, there are signs of improvement, said analyst Engle Addington of Carolinas Real Data, which compiles the report.

The vacancy rate is down from a record 12.9 percent in February 2002, and demand nearly doubled over the past 12 months as renters signed leases on 3,500 apartments, she said.

The average monthly rental rate continued to decline, to $646 in February from $657 in August 2004. Addington predicted rents will rise as vacancy rates fall below 10 percent over the next year.

• Morehead Properties Inc. wants to buy the Children's Theatre of Charlotte building on East Morehead Street near uptown after the theater group moves late this year.

The real estate firm has filed a petition seeking to rezone the theater's 0.7 acres at 1017 E. Morehead and its own property next door at 1043 E. Morehead.

Morehead Properties' Chris Moffat said it has contracted with the city to buy the 54-year-old building and land. The theater expects to move late this year to the new ImaginOn uptown.

The company is looking at demolishing the theater and developing an office building of up to 35,000 square feet, he said.

Morehead Properties included its adjoining property in the rezoning so the buildings can share parking, Moffat said.


http://www.charlotte.com/images/charlotte/charlotte/11276/127149020700.jpg

Nothing else to add to this thread for 60 days? :(

NC Music factory was announced.

Bruton Smith announced a proposal for a monorail.

Several new condo developments were announced.

Moorseville resort was shot down.

Guess some members are getting slack on their updates...

CHARLOTTE RETAIL DEVELOPMENTS:

Posted on Mon, May. 30, 2005

SouthPark keeps momentum going

Planned mall expansion joins changes across neighborhood

MICHELLE CROUCH

Staff Writer

SouthPark, the region's most upscale shopping destination, will soon give shoppers more reasons to open their wallets.

Dillard's, the last SouthPark mall anchor to retain its original 1970s facade, recently filed plans for a massive expansion and remodeling. And dozens of new stores are opening in the mall and the area around it, evinced by the red earth and construction vehicles dotting the landscape.

The proposed 47,506-square-foot Dillard's addition would complete the mall's transformation into a high-end center that attracts shoppers from as far as Columbia and Virginia. Nordstrom and a new wing of high-fashion stores opened in 2004, and both Belk and Hecht's have completed multi-million dollar renovations. Luxury retailer Neiman Marcus is slated to open its first Carolinas store there in fall 2006.

"This is an opportunity to bring Dillard's into step with all of the other anchors," said city planner Tim Manes.

The store's expansion is the latest in a string of new developments in the SouthPark area. About 6 miles southeast of uptown, it's home to some of the city's toniest residential neighborhoods.

The Indianapolis-based Simon Group, which owns the mall, has started grading work at the far corner of the mall site at Sharon Road and Morrison Boulevard. It is building 90,000 square feet of stores with 150 apartments on top. The "town center" project will include green space and connect to a planned parking deck.

The company often includes offices and apartments on its new mall sites, said spokesman Les Morris. But this is the first time the company has gone back and added those elements to an existing mall.

"The idea is to have people live in a community, shop there, eat there, even work there," Morris said.

Other projects under construction in the SouthPark area include:

• Offices, apartments, condos and street-level stores on about 20 acres a block west of the mall, on Fairview Road. Called Piedmont Town Center, it will house the headquarters for Piedmont Natural Gas. It's slated to open at the end of the year.

• About 140,000 square feet of stores, restaurants and office space on the north corner of Sharon and Colony roads. It's called Morrison Place; the first phase is expected to open late this year.

• A 14,500-square-foot Walgreens drugstore on the northwest corner of Sharon and Morrison, where the Goodwill collection trailer used to sit. Garden Secrets nursery will move from Park South Drive to a site next to the drugstore on Morrison, and a Bojangles' restaurant will open on the other side of the nursery.

While some neighbors welcome the changes, others say it's exactly what they feared would happen when they lost a contentious court battle to stop the mall's expansion a few years ago. Traffic is getting worse, they say, and the new retail could force vacancies at older shopping centers in the area.

"The problem is, we are not on a main traffic corridor and our roads are not able to handle the traffic," said LeeAnn McGinnis, who has lived in the nearby Foxcroft neighborhood for 20 years.

She said it took her 11 minutes on a recent day to drive 1.6 miles on Fairview Road, from Colony Road past the mall to Park Road.

Despite such concerns, local real estate observers say there's plenty of demand for the new stores.

"There's pent-up demand because the incomes have increased so quickly in the area," said Jensie Teague, senior managing director at Faison. "There's also very little vacancy."

The proposed Dillard's expansion would grow the store to about 270,000 square feet, making it second in size at SouthPark only to Belk. Further details of the plan were not available. A company spokeswoman declined to comment, and the store manager could not be reached Sunday.

The Charlotte City Council, which must approve the expansion, will hold a public hearing July 18, with a decision in September. Neighbors said they knew of no organized effort to fight it, noting that they have resigned themselves to living near a regional shopping destination.

Several shoppers, meanwhile, said they're looking forward to the change.

"I don't think Dillard's could be too big," said longtime customer Janet Neely of Charlotte. "They have great stuff and their prices are nice and reasonable."

Maggie Bean, 33, agreed, but said there's one other thing the store should update:

Its plastic shopping bags.

"All the other stores here have these great boutique-type bags, made of paper or canvas with nice handles, but theirs are like the ones from Wal-Mart," she said.

"They need to upgrade."

Link: http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/11772239.htm


CAROLINA PLACE MALL NOT TO BE OUTDONE:

Carolina Place
Pineville, North Carolina

The upscale merchandising efforts that catapulted Carolina Place into the south Charlotte market's dominant retail position will get a further boost with a new 76,000 square foot lifestyle center. The highly anticipated addition will include a large bookstore, sporting goods retailer and three new restaurants. Additional interior amenities such as soft seating, improved accent lighting, new enlarged and remodeled restrooms and a fully remodeled food court will attract even more affluent shoppers in addition to the center's 14,000,000 annual customers.

Link: http://www.generalgrowth.com/properties/erCarolina_Place.htm

the thought of continued expansion of south park is crazy. i have some photos of piedmont town center that i'll post soon. exclusive photos at that! ;)

• A 14,500-square-foot Walgreens drugstore on the northwest corner of Sharon and Morrison, where the Goodwill collection trailer used to sit. Garden Secrets nursery will move from Park South Drive to a site next to the drugstore on Morrison, and a Bojangles' restaurant will open on the other side of the nursery.


Yeah, thats sounds real nice....how original

that walgreens will look trashy there. i've already made that decision. i'm not impressed with that location......at all.

Dee Dee Harris using her development magic...just be glad she is not digging a big hole at that corner like she did at Quail Hollow.

i'd love for that to just become a hole and then have something worth my time built there.

Next year SP will also be getting the following stores....Gucci,Prada,Hermes,A/X,Christian Dior these are the only ones I know for sure about and it's from a well known reliable source ,who is a big player in the mall expansion. These stores are going to be in the Neiman Marcus wing.

Plans unveiled for SouthPark development

Charlotte Business Journal - 4:59 PM EDT Tuesday

Plans were unveiled Tuesday for Piedmont Row, the first phase of residential and retail within the mixed-use Piedmont Town Center under construction in SouthPark.

The multimillion-dollar project on Carnegie Boulevard is being developed by Crescent Resources and Lincoln Harris, both of Charlotte.

Piedmont Row will have two residential buildings with street-level retail. Piedmont Row will feature 179 one-, two- and three-bedroom condominiums ranging in size from 712 square feet to 1,500 square feet. Covered, gated parking is connected to the buildings.

The YMCA of Greater Charlotte will occupy the corner of the first residential-retail building, operating a 12,650-square-foot facility at the intersection of Carnegie Boulevard and Piedmont Place.

"The YMCA will be a great benefit for our residents as well as the corporate tenants at Piedmont Town Center," says Larry Wilson, regional vice president of Crescent Resources. "Already, the interest from prospective residents has been very strong."

A rooftop pool and entertainment plaza covers the first residential building and features uptown Charlotte skyline views.

The building includes street-level retail space, with five floors of condominium residences above. Each will have a private terrace, 10-foot ceilings, granite countertops and hardwood flooring.

Prices will begin in the low $200,000s.

In addition to the residential, retail and restaurant space, Piedmont Town Center includes more than 397,000 square feet of office space in two, eight-story buildings.

The office space, as well as the retail space, is being leased by Lincoln Harris.

Piedmont Natural Gas Co. Inc. (NYSE:PNY) will move its headquarters to Piedmont Town Center and will occupy 120,000 square feet in one of the office buildings.

Construction on the first office building is expected to be completed this fall, with the first residential-retail building completed in the second quarter of next year.

© 2005 American City Business Journals Inc.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/piedmontrow.jpg

http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2005/06/06/daily20.html?jst=b_ln_hl

i like this one. more people in an area that i think will start to see more condo development.

The recently licensed Charlotte School of Law has named a dean of admissions.

Victoria Taylor Carter, a former dean of admissions for UNC Chapel Hill School of Law, assumes her duties June 20.

Carter holds a law degree from the N.C. Central University School of Law. She has worked in several educational positions, including adjunct legal writing professor and director of recruitment at N.C. Central's law school and visiting instructor at N.C. Central's School of Business.

Charlotte School of Law, which plans to open here next year, is scouting for a location and a dean. However, the school is already receiving applications and could start evening classes in less than eight months, organizers say.

The school is receiving applications through its Web site and at the Charlotte office of law firm Womble Carlyle Sandridge & Rice. Womble is representing the new school and serving as a temporary admissions office until it finds a permanent home in Charlotte.

Charlotte is one of the largest cities in the country without a law school. While other local institutions are weighing the opportunity to start a school, Charlotte School of Law is the closest to opening.

Queens University of Charlotte is assessing creation of a law school as part of its long-term strategic plan. In February, Charlotte City Council granted Queens an option to buy the federal courthouse building on West Trade Street. Queens officials indicated the building would be an ideal location for a law school -- if they decide to pursue one. Even then, the school won't be able to purchase the building until a new federal courthouse is constructed on East Trade, which will take as long as nine years to complete.

UNC Charlotte also has expressed interest in establishing a law school but hasn't announced any specific plans.

Charlotte School of Law expects to have 120 full-time employees, and organizers predict the school will generate $5 million in income tax revenue and $20 million in sales tax revenue over 10 years. InfiLaw, the school's Florida-based parent company, also estimates construction and renovation of its facilities here will total $33 million.

InfiLaw is owned by Sterling Capital Partners, a $300 million private equity fund.

InfiLaw operates two other schools: Florida Coastal School of Law, which opened in 1996, and Phoenix International School of Law, which opened in January.

Developers, merchandise mart owners propose complex along Catawba

CARRIE LEVINE

Staff Writer

Private developers and the owners of the merchandise mart have proposed a new riverfront complex on county-owned land along the Catawba River, to be anchored by a $20 million exhibition center to replace the mart's Independence Boulevard location.

A draft proposal calls for a 200-room hotel, an environmental education center and a park on the 150-acre tract of undeveloped land known as the Gateway property, as well as some retail and housing.

It would be the first such major development proposed for the Mecklenburg side of the Catawba. The land is along Wilkinson Boulevard, roughly a mile and a half from the $25 million Charlotte Whitewater Park slated to open next spring and near the bridge that connects Mecklenburg and Gaston counties.

Backers of the whitewater park have long said such a complex would spur economic development along the river.

The draft proposal -- written by Edna Chirico of Chirico Huber Properties -- had few details, but calls for a possible $25 million investment of city and county funds for the project. The property would remain publicly owned.

Chirico said Monday that the document, dated June 10, was a draft that has not yet been formally proposed, and its release was premature. The Observer obtained the document from a third party.

Chirico said she is representing both the Phillips family, who owns the mart formerly known as the Charlotte Merchandise Mart and recently renamed the Carolina's Mart. Chirico said she also represents a prospective buyer of the current mart property on Independence Boulevard.

Several county officials said they had met with Chirico about the proposal within the past three months, and that they needed more details before they could seriously consider it.

"It's very, very preliminary," Mecklenburg County General Manager Bobbie Shields said. "We really have not had what I consider a serious meeting. ... They have a concept, but they left a lot of blanks unfilled."

Shields said the county would need a detailed financial analysis of the project, among other things, before moving forward.

Andy Phillips, the mart's CEO, could not be reached for comment.

Chirico said she could not say what could be built on the current site of the mart, a large parcel of land located only a few minutes from downtown.

Mohammed Jenatian, president of the Greater Charlotte Hospitality and Tourism Alliance, said he was familiar with the plans for the new complex. Jenatian said the area cannot afford to lose a venue for popular shows such as the Southern Christmas Show and the Southern Spring Home & Garden Show, which draw thousands.

Jenatian, whose offices are in the merchandise mart, said the Independence site has never officially been on the market, but "there have been a large number of people who have shown interest in the merchandise mart."

Jenatian said members of the Phillips family, which has owned and operated the mart since 1962, want to manage the new exhibition hall.

"They see this as an opportunity (to) still stay in the business and have a facility they can be involved in that is more updated," he said.

The draft report also cites the Lockard Reed Development Group as a prospective partner. Chirico said she could not release any information about the firm. The Observer could not contact Lockard directly.

Filings with the N.C. Secretary of State's office show the firm legally incorporated in February as a limited liability corporation.

Chirico said she is waiting for data from market studies examining whether the project is feasible at the Catawba River site, and her clients have not ruled out other possible properties.

The market study might show that the project could be built with private money only, she said.

Chirico, a former county commissioner, called the project "a wonderful opportunity to create an economic development opportunity."

But developing the publicly owned site would require cooperation from the city and the county, she said.

City Council member Nancy Carter, who represents the district that includes the current mart site mart, said Andy Phillips "has worked extraordinarily hard to address the needs of the east side, to keep it a vibrant area, to bring local government's attention to the area ... and he has not succeeded."

Shields and County Attorney Marvin Bethune said it is far from clear whether the county could legally sign onto the property's development without soliciting competitive bids from other developers.

Bethune called the project itself "theoretically possible," but said county involvement would require much study.

The county acquired the Gateway land as part of its land bank program more than a decade ago, Park and Recreation Director Wayne Weston said, and has no master plan for it yet.

The county bought the property, he said, because "we knew eventually the river would become a tremendous asset for our community."

Weston said that if the land is developed, it could be linked to the whitewater park through a system of trails along the riverbank.

County commissioners' Chairman Parks Helms said he has had preliminary discussions with Chirico, but said he would need many more details before endorsing the project.

"I think it is certainly something that has potential," he said.

^ So basically they're moving to a location that's even less useful to the city center than the old one. Great.

Posted on Sun, Jun. 12, 2005

DEVELOPMENT / DOUG SMITH

SouthPark's boom echoes nearby
`Fortress mall' spawns cluster retail; investors are paying top dollar
DOUG SMITH


SouthPark mall's continuing expansion isn't scaring off the competition; it's attracting a broader array of stores and services to the area.

The latest to conclude a lease agreement: Earth Fare, which plans to open next summer at Sharon and Colony roads. The Asheville-based natural and organic foods chain will anchor Grubb Properties' Morrison mixed-use village with a 25,000-square-foot market.

With that tenant signed and situated within the project, Grubb Properties has only 10,000 square feet of ground-level space to fill in its first building, which will have 300 studio to three-bedroom apartments atop shops.

Developers have unveiled new projects and upgrades to existing shopping complexes almost in sync with SouthPark mall's addition of more than 30 stores over the past 2 1/2 years.

That expansion includes mall owner Simon Property Group's adding Nordstrom last year and bringing in Neiman Marcus next year.

"They've turned it into a fortress mall," said Clay Grubb, president of Grubb Properties. "There's not a chance in the next 25 years there will be a competitor to SouthPark mall."

Among the activity around the mall, Crescent Resources and Lincoln Harris plan 90,000 square feet of shop and restaurant space in Piedmont Town Center, an office-residential-retail village. It's to be completed between late 2005 and mid-2006 on Fairview Road, a block from SouthPark.

A 14,500-square-foot Walgreens drugstore is to open in early 2006 at the northwest corner of Sharon Road and Morrison Boulevard. It's part of a larger Harris Land Co. project that will include a new Bojangles' and the relocation of Garden Secrets nursery from Park South Drive.

And the grandfather of Charlotte's mixed-use villages -- 8-year-old Phillips Place on Fairview Road near the mall -- began a process late last year of sprucing up and adding tenants.

Retailers typically like to cluster, adhering to the theory that competition attracts more shoppers from which they all benefit.

"The more retail that goes into an area, the more the national retailers want to be there," Grubb said. "Retail creates its own gravity."

Industry analysts aren't surprised, either, that the SouthPark area is packing them in. It's amid some of the city's highest income ZIP codes and fastest growing residential communities.

And investors don't mind paying top dollar to be there.

Last summer, for example, The Specialty Shops on The Park -- a 26-year-old SouthPark landmark -- sold for $374 a square foot, a price experts believe is the highest per-square-foot ever for a local specialty retail center.

Grubb said he wouldn't be surprised to see that price climb to $500 a square foot within the next five years.

An investor group represented by Charlotte's Aston Properties bought the 64,859-square-foot center, across Morrison from the mall, for $24.25 million.

Earth Fare, which opened its first Charlotte market this year off Interstate 485 at Johnston Road in the Ballantyne area, disclosed plans to occupy the SouthPark space in February.

Now that the chain has worked out details of the lease and the store's layout, Grubb Properties is proceeding with a final design approval process and plans to start construction soon. Site work is under way.

Earth Fare will be a major component of Morrison, a 24-acre redevelopment of the Park South Apartments property. The apartments will be progressively replaced as the mixed-use project grows, Grubb Properties officials said.

The company, headquartered in Charlotte, recently changed the development's name to Morrison from Morrison Place.

Grubb Properties spokesman Steve Biggerstaff said the new name will better reflect the village's "turn-of-the-century neighborhood ambience."

It's also consistent, he said, with in-town neighborhood names such as Dilworth, Eastover and Elizabeth -- "all of which stand alone without development modifiers like `Place.' "

Morrison ultimately will include 127,500 square feet of street-level retail and more than 500 rental apartments and for-sale condominiums and townhomes.

Little Diversified Architectural Consulting is the consulting architect. No contractor has been named.

The initial phase, valued at more than $45 million, "will evoke images of early 20th century urban living," Grubb Properties said. It's to include an acre of landscaped courtyards, pool and clubhouse.

The project is expected to exceed $200 million when completed over several years.

Here are some pics of Morrison from Grubb Properties site. I think Doug Smith’s column had a slightly different looking picture. Not sure if it was just a different elevation, or if the project has changed. I was out of town when I saw it and waited too long to lift it. At any rate, SouthPark will really be a sort of “urban village” when all the projects under construction build out.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/Morrison1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/Morrison2.jpg

http://www.grubbproperties.com/

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/Midtown1.jpg

CITY COUNCIL APPROVES MIDTOWN SQUARE

11:13 AM EDT on Tuesday, June 21, 2005
By JANELLE MARTINEZ / 6NEWS
6NEWS

City council members signed off on a plan Monday, to pay for the development of a prime piece of real estate.

The Midtown Mall is just outside the inner loop, and will soon include a Home Depot and Target.

“We’ve waited 15 years for the free market to take care of itself in that site, and it never did,” said City Council member John Lassiter

The Midtown Mall was Charlotte’s first mall, now it’s a run down eyesore.

“I can’t wait until they implode this and start the construction,” said Lassiter. “It will be a real jewel.”

It may become a jewel, but it will be an expensive jewel. Plans call for the city to kick in $6 million in road improvements. The city and county will split a $12 million giveaway to developers.

Developers will also build restaurants, shops, and condos.

“It's kind of ratted out and seen as an unsafe area, so I think bringing new commercial interest to it would be really nice,” neighbor Elizabeth Barnhardt said.

With this boost the neighbors hope the site will move forward.

“I think it will be helpful, but also create a lot more traffic and congestion in this area,” neighbor Jessica Flaxman said.

Assistant City Manager Ron Kimbell is ready for the project to pay off. A Target, Home Depot Design Center, theater and condos are all planned for the location. Kimbell adds that by splitting the cost, the city can dictate what kind of development will go into the mall. He said the city wants to encourage taller buildings, the ability to have people walk, bicycle and take transit to shops.

Some neighbors said they want something fitted more to the area.

"It's great to have something there. I wish it was something more unique, not that I don't like the those stores. But something more diverse would be good for the area," said Flaxman.

The project also involves another major plan, the Greenway. The city is paying to have the greenway unburied so it will give those at the mall a river view.

Link:
http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/062005cckkWCNCmidtown.2d23907b.html

Thats the old rendering...the new renderings look totally different.

ADAM'S MARK COMPLEX LANDS BIG-MONEY BUYER

Purchase would include adjacent office buildingBy J. Lee Howard
Charlotte Business Journal
Updated: 8:00 p.m. ET June 12, 2005

A New York investor who is part of the group that bought the Sears Tower in Chicago last year has placed Charlotte's Adam's Mark Hotel and adjoining Cameron-Brown Building under contract, local real estate sources say.

Representatives of the Chetrit Group, which also owns some former properties of hotel mogul Leona Helmsley, have been in town this week interviewing brokerage firms to handle leasing for the Cameron-Brown Building.

It's a clear sign, local insiders say, that Chetrit is serious about buying the aging, 15-acre hotel-office complex and turning it around.

A Chetrit official could not be reached for comment.

The 613-room Adam's Mark, at 555 S. McDowell St., and the 202,000-square-foot Cameron-Brown Building, next door at 301 S. McDowell, are owned by St. Louis-based commercial real estate firm HBE Corp.

An HBE official familiar with the Charlotte properties did not return phone calls seeking comment.

The properties have been on the market about two years. For months, HBE's insistence on selling the hotel and office building as a package has been viewed as a stumbling block to a deal. So has the asking price, which real estate sources have pegged as high as $50 million.

But Chetrit has deep pockets, and its experience with hotel and office properties makes it a well-qualified suitor, say observers who are familiar with the company's local plans.

Early last year, Moroccan-born Joseph Chetrit, a principal in the closely held private company, bought the 110-story, 3.8 million-square-foot Sears Tower with other investors.

The Chetrit investor group bid $840 million for the landmark building. But in the hardball world of high-stakes real estate, Chetrit improved his chances of landing the deal by offering a rival bidder a minority interest if the competitor would back away.

He also offered a $30 million nonrefundable down payment and promised post-closing capital improvements that drove the final price to $925 million.

The Sears Tower is just one of a string of trophy properties the Chetrit family snared in 2004, including the Bank of New York Building at 530 Fifth Ave. in Manhattan.

Big plans, broad speculation

Chetrit's plans in Charlotte are the subject of broad speculation within the local real estate industry. In New York, the company is known for converting the hotel properties it acquires into residential condominiums.

In November 2003, for example, Chetrit along with other investors bought the 200,000-square-foot Empire Hotel at Broadway and W. 63rd Street, across from the Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts, for $67 million. Chetrit transformed the 373 hotel rooms into 125 residential condos and 25,000 square feet of retail space.

But several insiders say such an overhaul isn't likely at the Adam's Mark.

It's more probable, they say, for Chetrit to make a hefty investment to improve the Cameron-Brown Building and upgrade the hotel under a new flag.

A targeted closing date has not been disclosed.

The Adam's Mark, built in 1973, is Charlotte's second-largest hotel. It is valued for tax purposes at $28.3 million.

The Cameron-Brown Building, built in 1971, carries a tax value of $15 million.

One source familiar with Chetrit's proposed acquisition estimates the sale price at $42 million to $45 million. But the deal's long-term value could be far greater, especially given the properties' location at the rim of the center city, that source says. "It's really going to be more like a $75 million or $80 million deal, when it's all done. The purchase price is only one piece of it."

A redevelopment of the properties would fit well with local planners' goals for mixed-use projects in Second Ward, says Jon Middleton, a senior associate at real estate consulting firm Warren & Associates.

The Cameron-Brown Building, despite its age, has always been a favorite of the local law firms. That's not likely to change as the new county courthouse nears completion across the street, Middleton says.

The site also adjoins the planned greenway that will cut through uptown and it's near Marshall Park, both of which add aesthetic value, he says.

Two future shopping venues nearby further aid the properties' potential, Middleton says, noting the buildings' proximity to Grubb Development's Elizabeth Avenue project and Pappas Properties' pending redevelopment of the former Midtown Square property.

Challenging sale
But the site still has faced problems.

In October 2003, HBE retained Atlanta brokerage firm Hodges Ward Elliott Inc. to market the hotel and office building as part of HBE's sale of a nationwide portfolio of 22 Adam's Mark hotels and 10 other properties.

The local hotel was one of four properties eventually dropped from that package deal. In the aftermath, HBE continued to quietly market the two local holdings.

Though the Cameron-Brown Building has remained a solid performer, the Adam's Mark has struggled in recent years.

Some of those woes reflect high vacancy rates that have affected the local hospitality industry as a whole, but the Adam's Mark also has suffered from competition from The Westin Charlotte, the 722-room convention hotel that opened in 2003.

But a source familiar with Chetrit's expertise has no doubts about the proposed buyer's capabilities. "It would take a special player to do something with that property, and from what I know of this buyer, it shouldn't be a challenge."

© 2005 Charlotte Business Journal

Link:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8199306/

Posted on Wed, Jun. 22, 2005
NYC-STYLE PARK COMING TO THIRD WARD
Public's ideas sought for green space
DOUG SMITH

That four-year gleam in the eyes of Mecklenburg elected officials -- a center-city park -- is finally becoming a reality.

The county has just awarded a design contract for a park to be built in Third Ward. And, in just over three weeks, the public will be asked for ideas on what to include on the 8.5 acres.

The site is bound by Second, Mint, Graham and Fourth streets. It's what Tedd Duncan Jr., who's leading the project for Charlotte's LandDesign, calls "a doughnut hole" waiting for the doughnut.

The park -- where activities could range from tossing a Frisbee on a tranquil green to live concerts -- would be the center, or the hole.

The edges -- the doughnut -- would be new private development seeking to capitalize on proximity to the park.

The acreage -- considered and rejected by the county for a minor league baseball stadium -- is surrounded by valuable land that planners believe could generate a multitude of midrise residences, offices, restaurants and shops.

"This is like a pebble being thrown into a calm pond and the waves start to radiate out," said W. Lee Jones, the Park and Recreation Department's branch manager for capital planning and alliance development.

"We know there is significant interest -- it's definitely going to spawn some more development," he said.

Potentially, the park could be a really big next big thing.

Development parcels around the edges could generate "tens of millions of dollars" in new investment over 15 to 20 years, said Frank Warren of Warren & Associates, part of the design and planning team.

The TradeMark, a 28-story condo tower planned on Trade Street between Mint and Poplar streets, is a prime example of how just the promise of a park has begun to generate activity, he said.

And Spectrum Properties, which represents Hartford, Conn.-based Cornerstone Real Estate Advisers on a Church Street block near the park, is rethinking development plans for the area in light of the park.

The Church Street property and the adjacent block, which fronts on South Tryon Street, eventually could become a mixed-use project.

Spectrum foresees a combination of offices and shops closest to Tryon Street -- where an office tower had been proposed -- and residences overlooking the park.

That's exactly what county officials hope to create -- a public project that leverages private investment to bolster the tax base.

The role model county Park and Recreation Director Wayne Weston likes to cite is New York's Bryant Park in midtown Manhattan. That 8-acre green oasis provides city dwellers with an expansive lawn and hosts a multitude of public events.

For designers of the Third Ward park, it's too early to get into specific uses.

"The thought is it needs to be multifunctional and serve a diverse group of constituents," Jones said. "You have business people going about their duties, Johnson & Wales University students, ... people living uptown."

The planners will take direction from the public, starting with the first hearing July 18. (Time and place are yet to be announced). Typically, the county conducts three public meetings, Lee said.

LandDesign and its team members envision a 14-month master planning process ending with the county's awarding a contract for construction.

If everything goes smoothly, the park could be completed by late 2007.

The money for the project was approved in a 2004 bond referendum. About $7 million should be available to cover construction costs, Lee said.

The site includes the Virginia Paper Co. building, a 1937 industrial structure that county officials are working to preserve as part of the project.

Among proposals they are considering for the 30,000-square-foot-building: an international market and a combined upstairs/downstairs art gallery and restaurant concept.

The county's main concern is working out a deal with an operator to ensure that whatever happens with the building "not be a burden to taxpayers," Jones said.

The park might be able to host its first visitors long before construction is completed and all the pieces are in place. The county expects to demolish some structures within its boundaries and create green areas for use by late summer or early fall.

Park officials say they would like to have portions of the acreage prepared no later than the Carolina Panthers' Sept. 11 regular-season home opener against New Orleans at Bank of America Stadium.

And that could be another next big thing: the inaugural tailgating event at the new park.

Park Design Team

• LandDesign, a Charlotte land planning, urban design and civil engineering firm.

• Carol R. Johnson Associates, a landscape design and environmental planning firm with offices in Boston and Knoxville.

• Neighboring Concepts, a Charlotte architectural and urban planning firm.

• Walker Parking Consultants, a Durham parking analysis firm.

• Warren & Associates, a Charlotte market and economic analysis firm.

Link:
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/columnists/doug_smith/11953045.htm

Charlotte gets a new "next big thing" roughly every other week or so. Lucky place.

lol...Haunted is just the title of a weekly series. Doug Smith has been doing the development articles in the Observer for decades now...they just thought "next big thing" was a catchy title...

True, but it's one thing to call a newspaper column the "Next Big Thing." It's another when a new next big thing is actually going up outside the newspaper office every other week. Condo towers, cultural centers, parks... Charlotte is very fortunate.

Did anyone go to the Charlotte City Council Economic Development Cmte meeting today? Evidently the new Wachovia Tower was unveiled. I havn't seen any news coverage.

Fox Charlotte mention about the committee meeting but it didn't mention anything about a rendering.

I found a report on News14. Here is the rendering of the "campus" Its just a massing rendering...not much building detail...but it gives a sense of size and placement:

http://www.news14charlotte.com/media/2005/7/6/images/01_06-wach.jpg

Wants city's help for museums, theater

STEVEN BROWN

Staff Writer

Wachovia Corp. has expanded its plans for a South Tryon Street development, envisioning 600 condos and 35- to 40-story office tower -- if the Charlotte City Council will help build two museums and a theater in the midst of it.

Wachovia officials outlined their proposal Wednesday to the council's Economic Development Committee. The council recently told the panel to study a $147 million arts proposal presented more than a year ago.

Arts backers want the Wachovia development to hold three of their proposal's five projects: an uptown location of the Mint Museum of Art, a museum holding art donated by collector Andreas Bechtler, and a 1,200-seat theater. They're asking the city and Mecklenburg County to earmark part of the development's property taxes to help pay for construction.

The Mint wasn't part of Wachovia's plans in April, when bank officials described a smaller development: an office tower of about 30 stories and an unspecified number of condos. They had no valuation.

After adding the Mint in May, they came up with the project they described Wednesday, with a taller tower -- with about 1 million square feet of office space -- uptown's largest condo development and a $300 million price tag for the two. Besides wanting to rejuvenate South Tryon, Wachovia expanded the project so the larger property-tax amount could help pay for the Mint, senior vice president Bob Bertges said.

"The reason we're investing this $300 million is to help create these cultural facilities," Bertges said.

The council has balked at the cultural plan for more than a year, citing the demand for roads and other necessities. Council member Dan Lochman, a Republican, raised that objection again Wednesday.

But for the first time, arts proponents leaned on the city Wednesday to come around.

Bertges said that if the council rejects the arts projects, Wachovia will build a smaller tower and no condos. Without the museums and theater as an enticement, he explained, the development will have less commercial appeal. The value might be only $100 million -- a third as much as the full proposal.

And for the first time, banking heavyweights came along to speak up for the arts plan. David Carroll, head of Wachovia's capital management group -- one of its four main divisions -- said that as "a resident, taxpayer and raving fan of this community," he thinks the city should come up with money for the arts projects. "We need this kind of enlightened investment," he said.

Bank of America real-estate executive John Saclarides spoke briefly at the end of the meeting. His company will come to the city in about three weeks with a $60 million project that is "under cloak of secrecy" for now, he said. He asked the city to apply part of the property-tax money from that, too, for the arts projects.

Top Grade

Wachovia Corp. on Wednesday said it received the top rating from federal regulators for its lending and investment in low- to moderate-income neighborhoods.

could the rendering above fit in 600 condo units?

Is the white building above a pre-existing structure for scale, or a rendering of the new building's massing?

Some updates on recent projects:

TradeMark construction site. I believe the hotel is completely cleared now, this pic is a couple of weeks old.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b330/bruinsbuddy42/43600214.jpg

Arena construction pics:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b330/bruinsbuddy42/Arenatracks.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b330/bruinsbuddy42/43600100.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b330/bruinsbuddy42/43600102.jpg

ImaginOn children's center is complete except for some interior work, and Courtside condos is rising in the background:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b330/bruinsbuddy42/TracksLibraryconstruction.jpg

Piedmont Town Center being finished in SouthPark:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b330/bruinsbuddy42/SouthParkConstruction.jpg

I've blanked on the name of this project near the 300 block of S. Tryon St....
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b330/bruinsbuddy42/Construction.jpg

Also, the addition to the Government Center is looking quite nice and beginning to make a mark on the skyline.

Is the white building above a pre-existing structure for scale, or a rendering of the new building's massing?

In the building the white tower would be a new 40 story office tower.

BTW, here's that courthouse building:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b330/bruinsbuddy42/NewCourthouseConstruction.jpg

i need time off work to take photos and actually edit all the photos i have!

wow.

What do we do to support the Wachovia proposal? For god's sake, they'd be using public money for the NASCAR museum. I love the fact that Wachovia talked about property tax as well...great move on their part!

You send e-mails to the various council members to let them know you support this. It will be coming to a vote sometime in the coming months.


www.charmeck.org

This was happening on Church St. this afternoon. Not sure exactly what the development is.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b330/bruinsbuddy42/ChurchSt.jpg

That's the Avenue.

Anyone feel like a Ritz Carlton downtown? ...more details in 30 minutes :)

Here's the official rendering
http://media.marketwire.com/attachments/200507/MOD-217127_Ritz-Carlton_Birdseye300c.jpg

Done by the same firm that did the Hearst Tower....this one seems to have a little Oriental flare to it.

I think it's the curvy roof line, it reminds me of that island airport terminal that Japan built.

Kansai

Here's another view.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Kwinone/Ritz2.jpg

Very nice indeed.

And since there will ensue a great many posts along the lines of, "But I only wish it were taller", I'll kindly refrain from the complaint myself. :)

Yeah people will say they wish it was taller or that its not big enough, and then in the next breath say how Charlotte is lacking in midrises...lol.

I agree, I think it looks great regardless of height. We need more buildings of this height to contribute to density.

Kansai

Let's hope it doesn't sink like Kansai.

the building's height is just fine i think, buildings like these form the 'meat' of a skyline. The tall(er) buildings give it character, but these definitely have significant impact at street level and far away.

Ritz-Carlton is a big win for Uptown, in my opinion. Whether it is 15, 25 or 35 stories tall, it is more of a status thing, and that weighs even more in the eyes of people. Congratulations to Charlotte :okay:

According to CEO Lewis they are saving space on that plot of land for a future tower.

I hope they include some ground level retail - at least provide a private entrance to the restaurant that would serve the hotel. My big gripe about hotels is that they have the one side that is nothing but a driveway - typically hostile to pedestrians, and the other sides are barren.

i feel for the many people that use that parking deck [and international trade center] that will now have to walk on the ground while this project is going up. this is so sad!

Ritz-Carlton is a big win for Uptown, in my opinion. Whether it is 15, 25 or 35 stories tall, it is more of a status thing, and that weighs even more in the eyes of people. Congratulations to Charlotte :okay:


VERY COOL for Charlotte. Gosh, Indy and Charlotte are SO similar in terms of development. Currently in downtown Indy they have been constructing a 23-story Conrad Hilton, which is the flagship of the Hilton chain and will be Indy's first 5-Star hotel. There are a handful of 4-star hotels in downtown, but nothing like this! There are currently only two Conrads in the US, Miami and NYC, with many in more exotic locales. Conrad: Bali, Singapore, Miami, INDIANAPOLIS! Ritz Carlton, Four Seasons and Conrad were the three 5-star brands that the City went after and obviously got Conrad.

These things are a boost for our respective cities because it shows the level of business people and tourists that are visiting out cities and it also <to a degree> announces to the rest of the US, hey guys, here we are, we want to play with the big kids too.
info on the Conrad Indy:
http://conradhotels.hilton.com/en/ch/hotels/index.jhtml;jsessionid=5CZJDMZGJWVMCCSGBIV222QKIYFC5UUC?moreDesc=true&ctyhocn=INDCICI


VERY COOL for Charlotte!!!

There is now scaffolding up around the Carolina Theatre site.

^ Very cool - but there is no real theater is there? Based on what I heard elsewhere...

Sure there is.....there is the theatre (intact but in bad shape), then no lobby which was destroyed by fire, and then the facade, that is freestanding (but is being dismantled and put into storage).

^ No, all that's left of the old thing is the facade and part of an interior wall. But what's left is so historic and unique that nobody wants to touch it until it's ready to be converted. As best I can tell the ruins will serve as the street-level entrance to the new building (Wachovia?), so seeing scaffolding up is a good sign that they're prepping the site for construction.

Edit: Or a good sign that it will be dismantled and put into storage...

^ Ah - thanks for clearing that up, someone special at the Charlotte forum fed me some wrong info.

Ok - that was posted in reference to Atlrvr's comment, quite a debated status of the theater...

^ No, all that's left of the old thing is the facade and part of an interior wall. But what's left is so historic and unique that nobody wants to touch it until it's ready to be converted. As best I can tell the ruins will serve as the street-level entrance to the new building (Wachovia?), so seeing scaffolding up is a good sign that they're prepping the site for construction.

Edit: Or a good sign that it will be dismantled and put into storage...

Sorry try again..the whole Theatre is still there minus the lobby...Wachovia has nothing at all to do with this project. The scaffolding is going up so they can dismatle the facade and put it in storage.

The current plan is for Camden Properties to restore the Carolina Theatre to its original lustre and open it for shows again. Also they will build a 20 story condo tower next to and above the theatre.

To make this all work they are trying to set up a TIF, stay tuned for further info once it becomes available...this project is very promising.

^ Ah - thanks for clearing that up, someone special at the Charlotte forum fed me some wrong info.

Ok - that was posted in reference to Atlrvr's comment, quite a debated status of the theater...

The theatre is still there....TheBrad, have you heard of Camden Properties? They are based out of Atlanta and they are the ones leading the restoration effort.

^ Very cool - but there is no real theater is there? Based on what I heard elsewhere...

Take what you hear on urbanplanet with a grain of salt...especially metroboi. He acts like he knows everything about this city...but the reality is that he is pretty clueless and makes a lot of stuff up.

From what I've seen of Camden - they invest in a lot of apartment communities, primarily management. Otherwise - don't know much else.

Otherwise, uptownliving - I've had that feeling too... - thanks.

Evidently Camden has done a couple of these Theatre rehab projects before...but im not sure which ones.

Take what you hear on urbanplanet with a grain of salt...especially metroboi. He acts like he knows everything about this city...but the reality is that he is pretty clueless and makes a lot of stuff up.
I guess everyone has issues with him, I mean I respect what Hunterville is doing, but it's not utopia and he always put Charlotte down to try to make Hunterville seem superior, if Hunterville is all good and such, maybe it can cater to people of other ethnic, it's still suburban to me, it's not urban.

You all better watch it - the Secret Police may be watching & shall report you to UP, the bannerator is ready... ;)

Racial topics over there is making me feel uncomfortable.

Take what you hear on urbanplanet with a grain of salt...especially metroboi. He acts like he knows everything about this city...but the reality is that he is pretty clueless and makes a lot of stuff up.

LMAO!

I guess everyone has issues with him, I mean I respect what Hunterville is doing, but it's not utopia and he always put Charlotte down to try to make Hunterville seem superior, if Hunterville is all good and such, maybe it can cater to people of other ethnic, it's still suburban to me, it's not urban.

Please tell me your kidding about Metro-queen thinking that Huntersville is "superior" to Charlotte. She lives in a friggin' subdivision for god's sake!

Otherwise, uptownliving - I've had that feeling too... - thanks.

Wow. We actually agree about something!

Sure there is.....there is the theatre (intact but in bad shape), then no lobby which was destroyed by fire, and then the facade, that is freestanding (but is being dismantled and put into storage).

Have you ever been inside the theater? Does anyone have any pics of it? It was built in 1926?

Racial topics over there is making me feel uncomfortable.

I think I know who in particular you are reffering to - I just responded to one of the more insensitive posts I've come across. I admit I'm entitled to not the most open-minded opinions, but I'm smart enough to keep them to myself. But this one guy appears to believe he is an expert on Black history in the American South.

Ex-Yankee, actually - I think we agree on most opinions. Somehow we find a way to agree with each other in the most unconventional way... ;)

Yeah, I don't know what's the deal with some of the racial stuff rearing its ugly head over there lately. Sometimes I just have to step back or just simply step off. It's amazing how some folks try to act as though they're some sort of Black sociologist and they've never even picked up a book that addresses REAL racial issues.

Have you ever been inside the theater? Does anyone have any pics of it? It was built in 1926?

I don't have pics of the facade, but here's a shot from behind the fountains across the street. You can see why I was under the impression that the theater itself was gone; there's a rather large (and ugly) hole in the block where the lobby used to be. I had always assumed that was the entirety of the theater; I guess the auditorium is behind the wall to the left.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b330/bruinsbuddy42/FountaininfrontofoldTheater.jpg

A few more pics:

http://www.cmhpf.org/carothe1.jpg
http://www.cmhpf.org/carothe2.jpg

A couple of very poor images of the current facade:
http://theatreorgans.com/nc/metrolina/carolina/graphics/Exterior.Entrance.TryonSt.Northeast.1998.jpg
http://www.cmhpf.org/CarolinaTheater.jpg

I recently noticed a tree beginning to grow out of the facade's second floor. Something needed to be done with this property quickly, or it would've fallen down of its own accord.

Last I can remember, BoA had ditched plans to renovate the building; what's planned for there now?

Then they could go ahead & build a new theater with the original facade - no one will tell the difference if they do it right.

good.

if they didnt save any part of that, or all of it, i was going to be one mad person. this is the new charlotte , where we save things. ;)

I thought the theatre itself is still there, but just damaged by the fire while the facade, what's left of it, was for the lobby of the theatre which is gone.

I think I know who in particular you are reffering to - I just responded to one of the more insensitive posts I've come across. I admit I'm entitled to not the most open-minded opinions, but I'm smart enough to keep them to myself. But this one guy appears to believe he is an expert on Black history in the American South.

Ex-Yankee, actually - I think we agree on most opinions. Somehow we find a way to agree with each other in the most unconventional way... ;)

Brad, I know...and it surprises me!!! You are :okay: I agree about one thing...I respect you so, let's PM each other in the future to clarify potential misunderstandings.

A few more pics:

http://www.cmhpf.org/carothe2.jpg



THANK YOU JUSTADUDE!!!! Beautiful.

Brad, I know...and it surprises me!!! You are :okay: I agree about one thing...I respect you so, let's PM each other in the future to clarify potential misunderstandings.

Fuckin' A!

Fuckin' A!

What???? :eek2: :)

Charlotte City Council just now at 12:34am voted to enter into a MOU with Camden Properties on the Carolina Theatre project...that gives Camden 120 days to come up with a financial package ameniable with the city....in other words this project looks promising and is moving forward.

John Tabor always seem to be the only member with sometimes with John Lochman that is always against any art cultural amenities or from what I viewed as a progessive movement for Charlotte. Even if Tabor didn't vote against it, he still has to make a point to his base what he really thinks. But I'm glad most approvals from the City Council are usually bipartisan, with the moderate Republicans like Lassitaser (spelling?) and the Mayor.

Lochman is by far the most conservative with Tabor second.....suprisingly, the Mayor has been very anti-arts this time around....perhaps he's getting nervous about his 6th consecutive re-election bid.

Patsy Kinsey is just a bad though......for being a democrat who represents an inner-ring neighborhood, she votes against anything supporting uptown....I hate her.

yeah Patsy might as well be a republican...and she sits there the entire meetings and never says a damn thing. She never explains her votes.

Yes, the Wachovia proposal will go!. City Council has enough votes to override the Mayor's veto. It's an 8 to 3 vote, with only Patsy Kinsey, John Tabor, and John Lochman voting against. But the vote won't happen until Aug 22. But Wachovia will still move on as they see they will get enough vote.

What possible rationale could they have for voting "no" on this? This is easily up there with the arena in terms of positive effects on Uptown and Charlotte's general reputation. I would have to think a Council member would be extremely irresponsible to vote against it... but there are three of them after all.

Anyone know what their reasoning is?

Probably has to do with the cities tight budget and the fact that, even the most enthusiastic booster has to admit that this money could be used for other (some would say more important) things like raising the pay of teachers/fire fighters/policeman/other generally underappreciated city workers. Personally I am completely for the project, but you have to understand that there are a lot of things the money could be used for other than an art complex that only a small percentage of the city/metro population will ever visit.

^ Since these funds are being raised through a hike in rental-car taxes, it wouldn't seem appropriate to earmark them for anything not related to culture and tourism.

I did a little reading in the Observer and found this report:

McCrory floated an alternative proposal Monday evening that would have devoted some of the proceeds from a rental-car tax hike to public safety. Under the mayor's plan, arts groups would have had to scale back their buildings.

"That would take some sacrifice from the arts community, but it still satisfies 80 percent of what they're requesting," McCrory said.

Only Kinsey and Tabor voted for that idea.

...

Raising the car-rental tax from 11 percent to 15 percent would cover more than half the cost of the arts proposal. Most of the remainder would come from increased property taxes from the Wachovia project, along with money freed up by arts groups assuming the city's cost of operating their buildings.

Opponents, including council members and representatives of the car-rental industry, argued that the city should spread costs to all citizens or focus on its most pressing needs.

"Why should customers of one industry, who derive no special benefit, be singled out to pay for a project that is billed as being good for the entire community?" asked Geoff Durboraw, vice president of Enterprise Rent-A-Car's N.C. Operations.

The last quote is typical protectionist nonsense from a corporate talking head. Not worth responding to, considering that the city is attempting to build a tourist base that would keep people like Geoff Durboraw employed.... "no special benefit", my ass.

I'm curious to know what McCrory had specifically in mind with the public-safety idea. Possibly a response to the hysteria over the July 4 hooligans?

Yes, the Wachovia proposal will go!. City Council has enough votes to override the Mayor's veto. It's an 8 to 3 vote, with only Patsy Kinsey, John Tabor, and John Lochman voting against. But the vote won't happen until Aug 22. But Wachovia will still move on as they see they will get enough vote.

Yes, its about time!!! I just hope the design isn't the typical "Wachovia"/plain jane design.

I understood that there was going to be a vote on 7/18...

What happened???

I understood that there was going to be a vote on 7/18...

What happened???

No that was when they had the public hearing about the Rezoning request. Next month will be the vote...looks like it will likely pass.

The last quote is typical protectionist nonsense from a corporate talking head. Not worth responding to, considering that the city is attempting to build a tourist base that would keep people like Geoff Durboraw employed.... "no special benefit", my ass.

I'm curious to know what McCrory had specifically in mind with the public-safety idea. Possibly a response to the hysteria over the July 4 hooligans?

Well Enterprise gets 90% of their business in Charlotte from LOCAL users...not tourists. Why? Well if you have ever been in a wreck and had to rent a car because of that you would know that almost all Insurance Companies have exclusive agreements with Enterprise for direct billing.

So the Rental Car tax is not a tourist tax...about half of all rentals are from Local Business. So it will be the people that get in car wrecks that will be paying for a large chunk of these Art Projects. This tax doesn't make sense to me. I am all for these projects, but they really need to find a better source of funding. As it stands right now if you rent a car from Charlotte Douglas it is already taxed at 22%....yes thats 22%...I think that is already high enough.

As far as McCrory's half assed attempt at Compromise...he was playing up the Public Safety side becasue he is running for Mayor again and with the Crime Rate on the rise...that is going to be Issue #1 in the race this year.

I thought the city's car rental tax at 11%, it was mentioned during the City Council meeting or Charlotte-Douglas uses a different rate?. It was compared to Greensboro and Raleigh with theirs being 16%, while both of those cities use the increased tax to pay for a portion of transit.

Charlotte Douglas has an additional 11% on top of the rest of the County's 11% tax rate....no go and rent a car from RDU and you will pay a 27% tax on rental cars.

No that was when they had the public hearing about the Rezoning request. Next month will be the vote...looks like it will likely pass.

Do you know how it went? What do you think of the project, Uptown (and others...of course....). I apologize if there's already a thread about the Lowe's project...if there is, please direct me to it!

Well Enterprise gets 90% of their business in Charlotte from LOCAL users...not tourists.

That's because there are almost no tourists in Charlotte! Considering the size of the city, and the attractiveness of Uptown, the tourist base in this area is pitiful. The biggest attraction is a mall. The arena, the arts package, the Ritz, the NASCAR HoF (hopefully), the proposed entertainment district, the SouthEnd trolley and LRT lines, the subsidized NoDa neighborhood and other projects here and there are going to start to build up a tourist base that'll bring that 90% down quite significantly. When that happens, Enterprise and other services (including cabs, hotels, and other tourist-friendly industries) are going to start finding a lot more money in their coffers. For a rep of a rental car agency to say that they derive "no special benefit" from increased tourism is an outright lie.

Why? Well if you have ever been in a wreck and had to rent a car because of that you would know that almost all Insurance Companies have exclusive agreements with Enterprise for direct billing.

So this shouldn't affect those local rentals at all, then. People who need to rent a car because they've been in an accident aren't going to haggle over a 4% tax increase. And since the tax is equally spread over the entire industry, there's no reason to think that Enterprise's sales would go down.

As it stands right now if you rent a car from Charlotte Douglas it is already taxed at 22%....yes thats 22%...I think that is already high enough.

You're right that 22% is ridiculous. Hopefully Charlotte-Douglas will be getting healthier in the near future (USAir sorting out its problems, new low-care carriers bringing rates down, and Charlotte becoming more of a primary destination for both business and tourism), so they'll be able to bring that rate down a little.

Do you know how it went? What do you think of the project, Uptown (and others...of course....). I apologize if there's already a thread about the Lowe's project...if there is, please direct me to it!

I hate to see such a big corporation move into a developing neighborhood, but I have to admit that there's still a livability issue in South End. A hardware store is one of those things that is just necessary to the survival of walking districts, and in this day and age the hopes of some mom n' pop operation surviving are pretty grim. At the very least they need to be very careful how they incorporate the store into the neighborhood, or it'll kill the momentum that is bringing that area into maturity.

^ That was a concern of mine too in Atlanta - we have Home Depot & Lowes within a 3 mile area in intown. Yet out of the 5 local hardware stores, 4 of them independant Ace's - only 1 Ace has closed, & that was primarily because of the site being redeveloped into a condo unit.

Just to show that independant stores can survive - even in consumer-oriented Atlanta, what helps is understanding what the particular needs are for the local residents. Which isn't something Lowes & Home Depot are going to 'get'...

You're right that 22% is ridiculous. Hopefully Charlotte-Douglas will be getting healthier in the near future (USAir sorting out its problems, new low-care carriers bringing rates down, and Charlotte becoming more of a primary destination for both business and tourism), so they'll be able to bring that rate down a little.

since when do they get rid of taxes? they dont. they'll just have it pay something new off.

Living in the neighborhood, I'm happy to have Lowe's come in....it beats the hell out of the abandoned light industrial buildings that are there now....plus they will be screening the residential portion of the neighborhood with townhomes.

There is not much local competition from an actual hardware, with Myer's Park Hardware and Blackhawk Hardware being the only two within several miles. I try to shop Myer's Park Hardware, but there are just certain things that Lowe's has that you can't get at the smaller places......I think that having a Lowe's will help the home furnishings/fixture stores in the area by bringing more DIY customers to the South End.

^ Which in turn will continue to support the amount of home renovation that is going on in that area.

since when do they get rid of taxes? they dont. they'll just have it pay something new off.

Perhaps they can send us all refund checks :)

Ritz Carlton Hotel announced for downtown Charlotte, NC

http://www.ritzcarlton.com/resources/rc_charlotte_render_hhome.jpg
The Ritz-Carlton Hotel Company, L.L.C. and Bank of America announce plans for luxury hotel at bank's world headquarters site in downtown Charlotte, NC.



Scheduled to open in early 2008, the hotel will be located at Bank of America's corporate headquarters at a site between North College and East Trade Streets.

Located in downtown Charlotte, the $60 million dollar hotel will have a contemporary-style and feature 120 deluxe rooms and 30 suites. There will be several dining options, as well as a health club and swimming pool on the roof of the hotel.

Source : www.ritzcarlton.com

Has construction begun on the Trademak yet?

Yes...it started a few months ago...expected completion is late 2006 or early 2007.

Demolition is under way on a couple of old industrial buildings at the site of the new Third Ward Park.

Demolition is under way on a couple of old industrial buildings at the site of the new Third Ward Park.

Do you have a plan to share of it Justa?

I haven't seen anything specific yet, just the shape of the plot. I'd imagine that they're going to have some kind of promenade connecting the stadium to Uptown.

Good news! Union County has put a one-year moratorium on subdivisions while they sort out their growth problems. That ought to cut down on the sprawl into Weddington and down Highway 74, and put a bit more emphasis on improving development on this side of the county line (especially Matthews). Hopefully this will make things a bit more fair to both Union and Mecklenburg County residents as far as tax distribution is concerned.

There are still 14,000 homes that have already been approved in Union County though. If you take a drive out through Weddington, there are still numerous neighborhoods that have just begun.

I'm thinking that this moratorium may only be for the county but not for incorporated towns. If that's the case it may do little too slow anything as Weddington, Marvin, Wesley Chapel, and Waxhaw have town limits as sprawled as the developments they contain.

the county is in the 'fucked' stage. look to any ring county of a major city and look at how messed up their traffic is due to lack of planning. then look to just about every other aspect of life that has been hurt becasue of the fast growth.

yeah, union county has no hope.

haha well thats where I live, but I move into my dorm at uncc tomorrow, so I can finally escape it.

the county is in the 'fucked' stage. look to any ring county of a major city and look at how messed up their traffic is due to lack of planning. then look to just about every other aspect of life that has been hurt becasue of the fast growth.

yeah, union county has no hope.

I don't think traffic is the major problem in Union County. For the most part it funnels up and down 74, Monroe and Providence Roads, then disperses onto side roads and into subdivisions. Granted Providence and Monroe get a little sticky during rush hour, but those are only two roads in a county, not enough to get really up in arms over.

From what I've seen the real problem is that the county is sharply divided between native Unioners and the Charlotte commuters. The county has historically been centered around Monroe, and largely rural outside a couple of business districts. With the sudden uncontrolled growth near the Mecklenburg line, the demand for public services (including but far from limited to: roads, emergency services, utilities, schools, hospitals and business subsidies) has spiked much faster than the tax rate can be raised to pay for them. The thinking is: people come to Union County for low tax rates, so if you bump them up you kill the growth. The problem is: if you don't bump up the tax rates Union becomes a sprawling, infrastructure-less mess that nobody would want to move to. Meanwhile, there are large established communities whose standard of living is flushed down the toilet due to the poor planning of newcomers.

The sad result of this dilemma is that there's a huge disparity in the quality of life across Union County. Compare Weddington HS to Monroe HS or Parkwood. Compare downtown Waxhaw to downtown Marshville. That's going to be a major problem in the future, especially in the poorer parts of the county. I have a feeling that this moratorium indicates a recognition by the county administrators that the current trend needs to stop immediately, regardless of whether a plan is in place to make things better. At worst, this will delay the problem long enough for the infrastructure to catch up a bit. At best, it will allow the county to create a comprehensive plan to allow for suburban development (money flow) to continue without leaving the non-Charlotte-oriented population in the gutter.

you just explained the problems facing every suburban county that is facing growth.

and providence road will get much worse. the more 'hoods that open up down to waxhaw, the worse it will get. during normal hours its still rather worse than what it should be for a rural state road.

A dome stadium in Uptown? When I first read this I was quite surprised this is actually being considered. Sounds like this guy is serious though. But there’s no way it gets built. It would compete directly with the new arena and we all know that ain’t gone happen. Also worth noting is that the rendering in the paper was that of an “open-air” baseball stadium and not a multi-purpose dome. A baseball stadium would be more likely, although I don't recall this being a site being considered by the County. But I don't see this happening.

Posted on Wed, Aug. 17, 2005

DEVELOPMENT / DOUG SMITH

What's the next step for Second Ward?

NASCAR Hall of Fame proposal brings attention to redevelopment

A NASCAR delegation visiting Charlotte today is checking out Charlotte's proposed Hall of Fame site, but it's also casting a spotlight on Second Ward.

City leaders want the racing organization to build in Second Ward at Second and Brevard Streets -- on the edge of a proposed redevelopment area where planners envision new neighborhoods, shops and offices.

The City Council adopted a master plan for Second Ward redevelopment three years ago, but the plan hasn't gotten off the ground. Encompassing 11 city blocks, it would be a costly and colossal undertaking.

But just the hype generated by the Hall of Fame could speed things up, perhaps putting Second Ward on a fast track to becoming the next big thing in center city redevelopment.

Two new ideas already are percolating for projects that would start at Marshall Park, off McDowell Street between Second and Third streets.

Jerry Reese, a real estate attorney, is showing city and county government officials his proposal to develop a multipurpose, domed stadium as a centerpiece for what he calls The Brooklyn Renaissance Project.

And condo developer David Furman of Boulevard Centro is ready to unveil a plan that would put housing on the edge of Marshall Park sooner than proposed in the city's master plan for Second Ward.

"I've created a plan that would use an alternate strategy ... that in my mind would enable it to get started immediately," Furman said.

The key, he said, is beginning at the most attractive location for residential development -- the area around the park -- and putting off major decisions such as relocating the Education Center as the city plan proposes.

The city master plan envisions starting at Stonewall Street with a grand boulevard.

The sports stadium

Reese sees his proposal as a way to tap private investment and avoid public controversy over the use of tax money for sports arenas.He believes a 38,000-seat stadium would attract residential and commercial development, helping pay for public improvements and relocation of the Education Center and the Mecklenburg County Aquatic Center.

The stadium could be used first for minor league baseball and after about five years for a major league team, Reese said.

Public participation in financing would be minimal, he said.

Reese said he has invested at least $350,000 in time and money, hiring LandDesign Inc. and FMK Architects to help with a master plan that envisions 3,000 to 5,000 homes, parking structures, department stores, office towers, a park and a museum in Second Ward.

To build support, he's meeting with civic and government leaders.

"It's pretty aggressive in scope," said city councilman Pat Mumford. "What I've suggested to Jerry is the plan needs to be vetted against the city plan for Second Ward. The city plan doesn't have a baseball stadium."

That could be an issue, said Dan Thilo, the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Planning Commission's urban design program manager.

"We're looking at rebuilding a neighborhood -- I'm not sure baseball fits into it."

Reese's proposal also is so wide-ranging that Mumford and others have recommended he focus on a first step -- something that can be done relatively quickly.

Financing also is an issue among people who have viewed Reese's master plan.

"Can I tell you that all the financing is in place and everybody's name is on the line? No," Reese said. But he believes investors will step forward when they see the potential.

Reese hasn't made public any construction cost projections, but he believes the value of new investment in Second Ward eventually could total $3 billion.

Alternate strategy

Furman conceived his alternate plan a year ago but didn't have time to pursue it because another project took priority.

Now, he said, "I'm trying to get a meeting (with planners) to start the dialogue. Before the end of the month I plan to get a group together."

Mayor Pat McCrory wasn't familiar with the new ideas.

"But we do have to find a better way to make use of the dead space of our Marshall Park," he said. "I love Marshall Park -- I have a great view from the mayor's office. It's beautiful -- but there ought to be a way to integrate it better for public use."

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/columnists/doug_smith/12401691.htm

I don't see it happening either...its a Pie in the Sky developer.

Here’s a little more about each developer’s proposal.

David Furman's Plan

Developer David Furman of Boulevard Centro would stick to the basic premise of the city's Second Ward plan but change the way it's implemented.

He'd start with the centerpiece -- Marshall Park -- and create an urban village with condos and ground-level retail around a rearranged green space

His first building would be a residential structure at Third and McDowell streets on a corner of what's now Marshall Park.

The Education Center wouldn't have to move immediately to make room for the project. Furman believes that new private development would pay for park revisions and a parking garage.

He proposes eight construction phases that would disperse housing throughout Second Ward, much like the way his company developed condos in First Ward.

The major problem with the city's plan, he said, is "it begins with the perimeter -- with turning Stonewall Street into a grand boulevard." Also, he said, it would cost too much and require the relocation of the county's Walton Plaza office building to get going.

"For things to go away before you begin realizing the plan is too big a hurdle," he said.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Jerry Reese's Plan

Charlotte real estate lawyer Jerry Reese has designed The Brooklyn Renaissance Project, an estimated $3 billion revitalization of Second Ward with up to 5,000 homes, offices, shops, meeting facilities and entertainment.

The centerpiece is a 38,000-seat domed stadium for baseball, concerts and Atlantic Coast basketball tournaments.

The stadium -- wrapped by shops, restaurants and residences -- would encompass Marshall Park and parcels around it.

Reese would work with the school board and the county to relocate the Education Center and the Mecklenburg County Aquatic Center.

The Walton Plaza site on Stonewall would house a 3,000-space parking deck. Reese said that site also will accommodate three towers of at least 25 stories each.

Renaissance Square -- an "urban subdivision" -- would include 250 to 300 mid-rise units with pools and amenities atop parking decks.

Other features of Reese's four-phase plan include an expanded convention center and a transit-oriented development with a hotel, offices and department store.

Brooklyn Square Park would be across Second from the convention center.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/columnists/doug_smith/12401761.htm

i'd like to see AAA there. that's a large lot in uptown that could be totally transformed. you could still use another lot that is vacant in 2nd ward for a large 2nd ward park.

will it happen? i doubt it.

this guy has money, but furman has buildings that go up.

Reese does not have money....he runs his business out of his home in the Landsdowne subdivision. He is just a guy out to make a name for himself.

I don't like domes at all. But if they do build one please let it have a retractable roof! please

I agree, a dome would make no sense at all. We already have plenty of indoor arena space in town, and an NFL-sized football stadium. What would be the point of building a dome?

So uh.....where was this guy when we wanted an arena in the first place? LOL

I'm new to this forum. I'm from the Greensboro/High Point area but I like to keep up with what's happening down in Charlotte. I would like someone to tell me what's the latest on the proposed Wachovia project? If someone out there have any updated info on that, please respond.
Thanks!

I'm new to this forum. I'm from the Greensboro/High Point area but I like to keep up with what's happening down in Charlotte. I would like someone to tell me what's the latest on the proposed Wachovia project? If someone out there have any updated info on that, please respond.
Thanks!
Welcome to the board. Here’s all I’ve seen lately. Looks like early first quarter of ’06 is the earliest they’re shooting for. And I hate to sound negative, but knowing Wachovia, all this waiting and hype will probably be for what will likely be the ugliest and most nondescript building imaginable.

Posted on Thu, Sep. 08, 2005

Wachovia offers to build arts complex
But city would pay for part of project without overseeing construction

RICHARD RUBIN
Staff Writer

Charlotte-Mecklenburg taxpayers will spend more than $90 million to put two art museums and a 1,200-seat theater on South Tryon Street.

But public officials may not make the final decisions about what the buildings look like and who gets the contracts to build them.

Wachovia Corp., which would build the theater and museums as part of a $400 million complex, wants control of the project.

Company executive Bob Bertges told a City Council committee Wednesday that the bank would seek advice from arts groups, their architects and city officials on design and construction. But Bertges and the company's privately hired lead architects would be responsible for shaping the cultural campus.

"What Wachovia is willing to do is say, `We'll design it. We'll hire the contractors. We'll build it. And on the given day, we'll give you the keys, and you'll buy it at the agreed-upon price.' "

Those three buildings are part of the $150.5 million arts construction package approved by the council last month. The public will pay all but $10 million of the bill, using property taxes from the Wachovia site and a proposed increase in the car-rental tax.

Republican council member John Tabor said Wachovia's willingness to absorb cost overruns made him comfortable with allowing the bank to pick the architects and contractors. On a normal public project, the city would interview architects, design the buildings and then pick the lowest responsible construction bid.

"Wherever possible," Tabor said, "I'd like to see Charlotte architects and contractors used. I'd like to keep the Charlotte taxpayers' money here in Charlotte."

Bertges told the committee about Wachovia's "very aggressive" program for ensuring that minority-owned companies get part of the work. That could conflict with the city's race-neutral approach, which focuses on small businesses. In 2002, the city scrapped its race- and gender-based contracting program in the face of a reverse-discrimination lawsuit.

Democratic Mayor Pro Tem Patrick Cannon wants more time to mull Wachovia's proposal.

"It's quite an interesting request, or quite an interesting way of wanting to do business when the city's involved," he said in an interview later Wednesday. "And I think we're going to have to weigh everything that might come with that."

Steve Gennett, president of the Carolinas Associated General Contractors, said once-typical low-bid competitions have become less common over the past decade, particularly on major projects.

If everything goes well, Wachovia could break ground in January or February 2006. But that presents a huge question: How could Wachovia and the city move forward without knowing there is enough money?

The state legislature would have to authorize any increase in the car-rental tax, and lawmakers won't convene again until May. Even then, opposition from some members of the Mecklenburg legislative delegation could stall a vote.

Bertges and city officials both said they need to figure out various "what if" scenarios. Over the next few months, the city, county, arts groups and bank will negotiate an agreement outlining their responsibilities.

"You have all the right questions," assistant city manager Ron Kimble told the committee.

What Charlotte doesn't have, at least for now, is answers.

The Wachovia Site

Wachovia's $400 million South Tryon Street mixed-use project would straddle First Street. The company would build an office tower, condominiums and retail shops.

Charlotte and Mecklenburg County would pay $91 million for a 1,200-seat theater, a new Mint Museum of Art and a modern-art museum, featuring the collection of Andreas Bechtler. Bank of America would contribute $10 million to the Mint in proceeds from the sale of the current Mint Museum of Craft + Design.

Link: http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/12587142.htm

Thanks for that bit of info! Out of curiosity, do you also know when they're going to come out with any renderings?

Thanks for that bit of info! Out of curiosity, do you also know when they're going to come out with any renderings?
Personally I do not.

Below is a bit of an update on all the high rise projects underway that was written recently by Doug Smith of the Observer.


The High-Rise Buzz

One of the biggest surprises in urban development is the dramatic shift toward high-rise living.

Seven residential towers have been announced uptown. Construction is under way on four -- 17-story Courtside, 28-story TradeMark, 13-story 230 South Tryon and 36-story Avenue.

Developer Pete Verna said he expects to start work this month on The Park, 21 stories.

The Vue Charlotte, a 50-story tower, is opening its sales center Monday at 101 N. Tryon St. in One Independence Center.

And Avenue plans to open its sales office Saturday at 500 W. Fifth St., Suite 120.

The developer of EpiCentre's proposed 53-story residential tower hasn't disclosed details.

The center city appeals to empty-nesters and young professionals attracted by cultural amenities, entertainment and restaurants.

Many people also are striving to live closer to their jobs in the center city -- a trend that could become more popular in the wake of the gasoline crunch.

How intense is interest?

Churchill Development Group LLC, developer of The Vue Charlotte, said more than 3,000 people have requested information about that project's 403 units by phone and e-mail. And 400 have made appointments to talk with a sales agent about purchasing. The Vue Fifth & Poplar RiverGate 230 South Tryon

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/columnists/doug_smith/12577641.htm

Thanks for sharing that with me!

Well, that Reese guy may be a little crazy, but the shops around Marshall Park needs to happen. I love walking through there, but when I do, I usually have another 15 minutes of walking ahead of me before I get anywhere. Thumbs down from me on the dome, though, like it would happen. Reminds me of the Concord monorail guy--as if we hadn't seen that episode of the Simpsons!

What's the latest on some of the projects under construction right now, such as Avenue, Trademark, Courtside, etc?

What's the latest on some of the projects under construction right now, such as Avenue, Trademark, Courtside, etc?

I read on the other board that the Avenue is moving along quickly, already going vertical. They are cleaning off the site for trademark. Not sure about courtside.

The CBJ has also now confirmed that the Vue will be going at least 58 stories...so thats great news!

There is also a rumor on the other board that the Epicentre could land a House of Blues!

What's the latest on some of the projects under construction right now, such as Avenue, Trademark, Courtside, etc?

Avenue's foundation is about done.
Trademark's crane is up and the foundation is going in.
Courtside is topped out...most all the glass is in..should be complete and ready for move in a few months

Vue is being redesigned to be 58 stories.
Epicenter is in the permiting stage and construction should start by the end of October.
M Street is will under way...frames are going up
Court 6 is being framed and is about 3 stories up now.
Imaginon's Grand Opening is this weekend
the new Arena's Grand Opening is in 3 weeks.
Wachovia Main is being glassed in...should be complete in the next few months.
220 S Tryon's exterior panels are being removed and the building is being stripped down to the steel frame.
Metro School will be complete in a few months.
1st Row is in the permiting phase...construction should start later this month.

Thanks Tarheelcubs & Uptownliving for that info, that is good news about the Vue going taller than expected, can't wait!

Here is a great article about Ghazi in an uptown magazine


http://www.uptownclt.com/oct_conversation.html

Thanks for sharing this, TarheelsCubs. It looks pretty cool :okay:

EpiCentre's first building permit has been issued. It is just to temporaryily shore up the edges of the site along the roads. The actual first building permit should be issued any day now.

Here is a great article about Ghazi in an uptown magazine


http://www.uptownclt.com/oct_conversation.html

If you can find the print version (I picked a copy up from Mert's Heart & Soul near Hearst) it has a very good rendering of how Epicentre will look next to the new arena.

Until I saw that rendering it had never occurred to me that it will block out BoA from the south :(

Yes that rendering is excellant...makes the building look very real. Epicentre will still be a good 200ft shorter than BofA.

I got 2 questions. 1.) Have they updated the Epicentre renderings to include the second tower in it, and 2.) Does anyone out there know when Wachovia will come out with renderings of its new uptown project? I thought they would have done so by now.

no and no. sorry.

Is the rendering in the print addition different than the rendering on the linked webpage? The linked rendering has been out for a good while along with the rendering of the flip side on flaherty and collins' website. People keep talking about a rendering with Epicentre against the skyline but I've yet to see a rendering with the Epicentre up against the skyline.

no and no. sorry.

Is the rendering in the print addition different than the rendering on the linked webpage? The linked rendering has been out for a good while along with the rendering of the flip side on flaherty and collins' website. People keep talking about a rendering with Epicentre against the skyline but I've yet to see a rendering with the Epicentre up against the skyline.

It is in the print edition of Uptown magazine. They took a pic of the skyline standing at the corner of Trade and Caldwell with the Arena in the foreground and the Epicentre and the rest of the skyline in the background.

FYI...you can walk right up to the Arena these days...you can't go in...not until next week...but you can go put your nose up against the window and look in.

The "spools" in the main entry plaza on Trade St turned out better than I thought they would. I kinda like them. They also have the big jumbotron screen up on the outside of the building...not turned on yet that I have seen.

Grand opening is in 1 week!

It's not official but I do not think there will be a second tower. In the article I posted further up "the uptown magazine" they interviewed Ghazi and he did not mention a second tower. But he talked about everything else. I guess that does not mean its been scrapped but its not a good sign.

I might need to reread that article, but I thought it mentioned Ghazi saying something about a "W" style condo/hotel also being part of it was well and that he will announce it in a few weeks or so. Like I said, I might have to read that article again just to make sure if I saw that correctly.

From the uptown magazine: Ghazi

“We are ready to unveil that a hotel will be included,” added Ghazi, “It will have 175 rooms and will be modeled after the ‘W’ hotel.” Class and culture should collide for a wonderful night’s stay if the ‘W’-like hotel manages a strong resemblance to the original. If the upscale service of a hotel doesn’t appeal, there’s also plans for condominiums to be added into the building."

Yeah, you might be right prw, he never actually says a second building though. But that is probably what he meant. We will find out soon enough!

FYI...you can walk right up to the Arena these days...you can't go in...not until next week...but you can go put your nose up against the window and look in.

The "spools" in the main entry plaza on Trade St turned out better than I thought they would. I kinda like them. They also have the big jumbotron screen up on the outside of the building...not turned on yet that I have seen.

Grand opening is in 1 week!

It should be exciting. Does anyone think the arena is going to "fail" as some people think it will? I know there are a lot of people against it (for example: http://www.news14charlotte.com/shared/poll/default.asp?SecID=1&PollID=524 ) Well, there are only 18,000 seats (I think), so thats all we need - 18,000 people who aren't retarded and who think that, by not stepping within 10574700000 feet of it, will actually change something.

9,100 people showed up at the arena the other night to see the Bobcats and Vince Carter and the Nets.

Not bad for a preseason game.

Those 9100 showed up at the Charlotte Colisiem..not the downtown Arena....

Also to clear up any confusion on Epicentre...Ghazi has already sold the air rights to that Indianapolis Apartment builder...which will be building the 50 story apartment tower. any talk of a W style hotel and condos will go in a 2nd tower.

It should be exciting. Does anyone think the arena is going to "fail" as some people think it will? I know there are a lot of people against it (for example: http://www.news14charlotte.com/shared/poll/default.asp?SecID=1&PollID=524 ) Well, there are only 18,000 seats (I think), so thats all we need - 18,000 people who aren't retarded and who think that, by not stepping within 10574700000 feet of it, will actually change something.
Those anti-arena morons are just mad because Charlotte is growing up and it's not the same old Hard-Line Conservative hick town that it used to be. The sensible ones, not the ones that blindly drink Jason Lewis' kool-aid, will go out to the new arena and have a great experience there. I know I will try to at least make it to probably 1 Bobcats game when I make some trips down to the QC.

Those 9100 showed up at the Charlotte Colisiem..not the downtown Arena....

Also to clear up any confusion on Epicentre...Ghazi has already sold the air rights to that Indianapolis Apartment builder...which will be building the 50 story apartment tower. any talk of a W style hotel and condos will go in a 2nd tower.

Oh, my bad. That is good news though. To think 9,000 would show up for preseason at the coliseum. That means the numbers should be much better at the arena. :)

the residential portion of the EpiCenter project now has a website up with a new rendering of the tower...check it out...Will be 53 stories with 400+ condo units.

http://www.twotentrade.com

Construction has already begun and they are opening a Sales Center in the Charlotte Plaza building on the ground floor in the former FedEx location.

Some other websites are reporting that there will also be a hotel in this tower...but that just doesn't make sense to me...I still think there will be a 2nd tower for the hotel component.

that is a sexy tower, I don't like the back view, that is on October 6th part of the webcam, but hopefully it'll be more like the other renderings, because thats awfully plain looking compared to the front view of the tower, whats up with all the charlotte architects getting lazy on how a building looks from outside of towntown, because courtside looks very uninteresting from 277

and there isn't a second tower, according to the editor and owner and financer of uptown charlotte magazine

that is a sexy tower, I don't like the back view, that is on October 6th part of the webcam, but hopefully it'll be more like the other renderings, because thats awfully plain looking compared to the front view of the tower, whats up with all the charlotte architects getting lazy on how a building looks from outside of towntown, because courtside looks very uninteresting from 277

Not sure what you are talking about as the Front and Back are almost identical in design. Trust me, this will not be another Courtside.

and there isn't a second tower, according to the editor and owner and financer of uptown charlotte magazine

And I think Todd got it wrong...or misunderstood the question. Here is why:

Lets Review:
1. Flaherty & Collins (not Ghazi) owns the space where the tower is being constructed.
2. Flaherty & Collins had a press release on October 12th detailing everything going in the tower...no mention of a hotel...but they did mention 419 condos.
3. In the article Ghazi says they are about to release details on a 175 room hotel....so if it were in the tower...that would mean 594 units in the one tower. For comparison the Vue has 410 units.

So what I am saying is that the math doesn't work.

Do I trust a magazine guy who is writing a bunch of fluff pieces?
Or do I trust the company actually developing the building?

I still believe that the hotel component will be going in a 2nd Tower along 4th St...which they have been planning from some time now.

So the Park is actually starting construction this month? Wow, I had written that one off as dead about a year ago. I'm shocked it's actually a go.

LOL...I highly doubt it. Every month they change their website to say that construction will start in the next month...so at The Park tomorrow never comes.

It's a bit of ongoing and very cruel joke.

and there isn't a second tower, according to the editor and owner and financer of uptown charlotte magazine

they did core samples and delayed the implosion of the arena [among other reasons]. so, 2nd tower it is, if they build it.

3. In the article Ghazi says they are about to release details on a 175 room hotel.
You know a 175 room hotel is not that big. For comparisons sake, the Double Tree in Gateway has 187 rooms and the Hilton Garden (largest of the Pano twin towers) has 181 rooms. So if he tops one of the retail buildings with a 175 hotel it probably won't be that tall at all.

You know a 175 room hotel is not that big. For comparisons sake, the Double Tree in Gateway has 187 rooms and the Hilton Garden (largest of the Pano twin towers) has 181 rooms. So if he tops one of the retail buildings with a 175 hotel it probably won't be that tall at all.

You are right...however it has been the intention to combine the hotel with condos in the 2nd tower...so while there may be 175 rooms dedicated to the hotel there could be 100 or so units for condos.

Well this is rather timely….

Posted on Wed, Oct. 19, 2005

210 Trade touts high-rise luxury
Will offer valet service, spa, cigar bar

DOUG SMITH
The Next Big Thing

The suspense is over at the corner of Trade and College streets in uptown Charlotte.

After more than seven months of confirming only that it will build a 53-story residential tower on the EpiCentre site, the Indianapolis developer is unveiling plans for the center city's most urban-oriented condos yet.

The high-rise -- dubbed 210 Trade -- combines posh amenities such as 24-hour concierge service and indoor spa with a prime location a block from The Square, next to a light-rail stop and across Trade from the new arena and a planned Ritz-Carlton.

Developer Flaherty & Collins has settled on 419 condos, ranging from one-bedroom units selling in the low $200,000s to penthouses exceeding $4 million, to be constructed atop the EpiCentre entertainment and retail complex.

The $180 million tower's sixth-floor club level would be about 120 feet above the street, overlooking the entertainment center's plaza.

The developers believe 210 Trade will contend for Charlotte's Next Big Thing in "sophisticated city living" among the eight condo high-rises announced or under construction in the center city.

That's because of the way it integrates so many facets of urban life -- workplace, dining, shopping, services, entertainment and mass transit -- into a single project.

The project could emerge as the example developers and condo owners follow as they seek to be as close as possible to the pulse of the city, say uptown leaders and condo competitors.

Michael Smith, president of Charlotte Center City Partners, said 210 Trade will have "amenities and conveniences not currently offered in our market" and cater to people seeking a lifestyle that puts virtually everything within walking distance.

Said David Furman, whose Boulevard Centro is developing two high-rise condo towers in the center city: "To put a major residential component on top of an entertainment project was a great idea. Being in the heart of an entertainment center won't appeal to everyone, but others certainly will be attracted to it."

At 53 stories, 210 Trade would have three more floors than uptown's next-tallest condo tower. The Vue Charlotte's 403 units are selling for $220,000 to $4 million in a 50-story building planned at Fifth and Pine streets in Fourth Ward.

It, too, features amenities such as 24-hour concierge service and a health club, but Churchill Development Group is aiming for a different buyer niche by emphasizing the project's location within one of uptown's oldest neighborhoods.

While 210 Trade touts the promise of restaurants, nightclubs, a movie theater and shops at its doorstep, and EpiCentre's direct connection to the Overstreet Mall, The Vue pledges to blend with Fourth Ward.

Each project is expected to add 600 to 700 residents to the center city, which uptown leaders believe will grow from about 10,000 people to more than 15,000 over the next three years.

The Ghazi Co., which is spearheading development of the 267,000-square-foot EpiCentre entertainment complex, said site work is under way on the block where the old convention center came down in June.

President Afshin Ghazi expects to finish grading in about 75 days and start footings on the tower and the first two EpiCentre buildings in about 30 days. He said the tower should reach eight floors by June.

Tony Birkla, lead developer for Flaherty & Collins, said he believes the first condos will be ready for occupancy by early 2007.

One- and two-bedroom units -- some multi-level -- would range from 700 square feet to 2,500 square feet. Penthouses on the top floors would range from 3,500 to 11,000 square feet.

The actual number of penthouses -- some with rooftop terraces -- will be determined by the amount of square footage buyers want.

The coordination required for such a complex project has made it a long time coming, but Birkla said Flaherty & Collins is now under way and on schedule.

Birkla said the company, one of the Midwest's largest developers of multifamily properties with 12,000 units in six states, brings a seasoned team to the project.

He said officials don't anticipate delays as a result of materials price increases and energy price spikes caused by Gulf Coast hurricanes.

Flaherty & Collins is just one developer eager to participate in the surge back to the urban core, said Smith at Center City Partners. He said he's talked with other developers interested in building condo towers.

Birkla is looking to do more in Charlotte. "We didn't come here just to do one project," he said.

Amenities at 210 Trade

• 20,000-square-foot outdoor entertainment deck with infinity edge pool, sun deck with private cabanas, fountains, pet walk, yoga garden, fire pit, putting green.

• An "Aqua Lounge" offering hotel-type services, including fresh towels and cold beverages.

• Two-story fitness club with cardio equipment, flat-screen TVs, classes, personal training, wellness spa.

• Formal resident lounge with multi-media center, conference room, professional test kitchen, cigar and martini bar, wine cellar.

• Concierge service offering 24-hour assistance; valet service and 612 reserved covered parking spaces for residences.

• Residential units with hardwood floors, stainless steel appliances, granite countertops, 10-foot ceilings, oversized tubs and showers with stone and tile finishes and gourmet island kitchens.

• Sales center opens in December at 201 S. College St. The center includes a scale model on the first floor, a view of the site from a mock-up kitchen-bathroom-living space vignette on the 27th floor. More information: www.twotentrade.com.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/columnists/doug_smith/12938095.htm

That article is a reguritation of the press release from October 12th. Again notice no mention of a 175 room hotel in the 53 story tower...it will go in a 2nd tower along 4th St.

You know a 175 room hotel is not that big. For comparisons sake, the Double Tree in Gateway has 187 rooms and the Hilton Garden (largest of the Pano twin towers) has 181 rooms. So if he tops one of the retail buildings with a 175 hotel it probably won't be that tall at all.

You are talking about Hilton Gardens and Double Tree though, a 175 room hotel, W Style, will be pretty big, lets not forget this

http://www.ritzcarlton.com/hotels/charlotte/

this is only 120 rooms, with 30 suites, and is 18 stories, I dunno if you ever stayed in a W hotel but wow, the rooms are huge, and there is a lot of other shit.

Parking on the roof among unique features of urban-focused store

MICHELLE CROUCH

Staff Writer

After years of searching for an urban location, followed by months of negotiation, Lowe's finally has a site for a new home improvement center close to uptown Charlotte.

The Charlotte City Council voted 11-1 Wednesday to allow the store to be built on South Boulevard between Magnolia Avenue and Iverson Way.

Construction is expected to begin next summer, with an opening date in 2007.

With parking on the roof, a brick facade and faux second story windows, the 140,000-square-foot store has an unusual urban design that planners hope will be duplicated by other big-box stores.

The store's garden center will be housed in a separate 30,000-square-foot building that will front South Boulevard, along with a small retail center that could house a coffee shop or restaurant.

Up to 85 condominiums along the sides of the site will buffer it from the surrounding Dilworth neighborhood.

Lowe's also agreed to restrictions that make it more likely another tenant will use the building if Lowe's ever leaves it.

"Lowe's has really done a tremendous job adapting what could have been an ugly big box to an urban setting," said council member Susan Burgess.

Patsy Kinsey, the only "no" vote, said the store doesn't belong next to a neighborhood and less than a half mile from a transit station on the city's first light-rail line.

"This goes against what we've been talking about for so long, which is to place density in the transit corridor," said Kinsey, whose district includes the store.