Three six mafia is one of the best groups out of the south.
But I hate them dawn Nappyroots they are an embarassment to Kentucky. I mean can't they rep the hoods in west end Louisville or the NewBurg areas, instead of the swampland in western Kentcky.

I know when yall watch their retarded ass videos yall sit and laugh at Kentucky.
LOL @ the fact that you make fun of Nappy Roots when you guys are reppin Ciara and Three Six Mafia and all them other Down South folks. Nappy Roots is the best thing you guys brought to the rap game since Outkast first came out.

LOL @ the fact that you make fun of Nappy Roots when you guys are reppin Ciara and Three Six Mafia and all them other Down South folks. Nappy Roots is the best thing you guys brought to the rap game since Outkast first came out.

Even though there are far more better groups than Nappy Roots in the south. They aren't an embarassment either.

nappy roots is nice IMO.

and Yeah i thought i was wrong when i called Clipse midwest, but virginia reminds me of southern ohio alot, which is midwest.

i mean hey, i love the louis, but STL rappers are sorry as shit

and i find these kind of threads to be nothing but flamebait. why not turn it into something else?

I agree, I think there's much worse out there than Nappy Roots. I think some of their stuff is pretty decent.

nappy roots is nice IMO.

and Yeah i thought i was wrong when i called Clipse midwest, but virginia reminds me of southern ohio alot, which is midwest.

i mean hey, i love the louis, but STL rappers are sorry as shit

and i find these kind of threads to be nothing but flamebait. why not turn it into something else?
I am not a fan of the popular STL rappers myself, but they don't represent the whole hip-hop world in this city. It's the record labels and consumers who made Nelly, Chingy & J-Kwon famous, not St. Louis.

It's just frustratin when every southern state is steryotypes as redneckish, But they have rappers that rep the hoods of they major cities.
Kentucky is probably the worst steryotyped southern state, And it don't help that these people ain't even showin the urban sides of Kentucky instead they're showin the parts that most steryotypes protray us as.

This thread should be shut down already. Come on, it's turned into a discussion about rappers.

Who cares whether it's the urban side, they rap about what they know about, I mean, it would be better to perpetuate a stereotype that's at least partly true than something that's not true, negative and almost exclusively to make money.

This is the stupidest thing I have ever seen on the internet.

What is your definition of "ghetto" so I can keep in the memory bank?

what he said

I am not a fan of the popular STL rappers myself, but they don't represent the whole hip-hop world in this city. It's the record labels and consumers who made Nelly, Chingy & J-Kwon famous, not St. Louis.

i totally agree

It's just frustratin when every southern state is steryotypes as redneckish, But they have rappers that rep the hoods of they major cities.
Kentucky is probably the worst steryotyped southern state, And it don't help that these people ain't even showin the urban sides of Kentucky instead they're showin the parts that most steryotypes protray us as.
Well seriously, you think they'd be rapping about Downtown Louisville?
"I take the freeway system down to 3rd St SW mayne!
I love the skyline of Louisville mayne!"

C'mon now, they rap about what they're from. Nappy Roots came from a poor family, it wouldn't be right for them to rap about what's happening in NY or LA.

That's what I mean rep downtown/Westend/Newburg,South Louisville .
My Cousin dated Nappyroots manager they aren't from no corn fields or swamps, They might have been poor, But they are from westend Louisville, most of them lived in them shotgun houses.
Now West end Louisville might not be the riches place in the world with grass uprooting from concrete on every corner, People shootin and killin each other every chance they get, Thats not exactly rural heychewin culture.
Now don't get me wrong theres nothin wrong with them showing their Southern culture, But to that extreme is just ridiculous.

That's what I mean rep downtown/Westend/Newburg,South Louisville .
My Cousin dated Nappyroots manager they aren't from no corn fields or swamps, They might have been poor, But they are from westend Louisville, most of them lived in them shotgun houses.
Now West end Louisville might not be the riches place in the world with grass uprooting from concrete on every corner, People shootin and killin each other every chance they get, Thats not exactly rural heychewin culture.
Now don't get me wrong theres nothin wrong with them showing their Southern culture, But to that extreme is just ridiculous.

I think what's ridiculous is you guys have completely hijacked the thread. You have like almost 4 pages now where you're just strictly talkin about rap. No matter if you think the original topic was "stupid" to start with...it's still the topic nonetheless and I think it's kind of ignorant for you guys to talk about something completely different and hijack the whole damn thread. You wanna talk about southern rappers....here's an idea...go to the southern group and post a topic but get out of this thread.

I think what's ridiculous is you guys have completely hijacked the thread. You have like almost 4 pages now where you're just strictly talkin about rap. No matter if you think the original topic was "stupid" to start with...it's still the topic nonetheless and I think it's kind of ignorant for you guys to talk about something completely different and hijack the whole damn thread. You wanna talk about southern rappers....here's an idea...go to the southern group and post a topic but get out of this thread.
And it's rediculous how you cut in trying to stop people from having a small conversation. I just asked a question and wanted a reply, so if you have a problem with that, then take it somewhere else. I don't wanna take it to a southern thread, if you don't like what's going on, get out. Simple.

And it's rediculous how you cut in trying to stop people from having a small conversation. I just asked a question and wanted a reply, so if you have a problem with that, then take it somewhere else. I don't wanna take it to a southern thread, if you don't like what's going on, get out. Simple.

took the words right outta my mouth.. if you dont like it, leave

Looking at the list now, I don't know why Hartford is on the list. :hahaha:

Everyone I heard in Louisville who talk about Nappyroots say the same thing "They are embarassing"
I can't wait until the many new Louisville underground rappers makes it big rep a different side of Kentucky.
But at the same time I don't want someone from Lexington, Ky talking about the drug dealers and murders. When that city only has ten murders a year.

i kno, y's hartford on the list? it alwz seemed like a very decent place to me

That's what I mean rep downtown/Westend/Newburg,South Louisville .
My Cousin dated Nappyroots manager they aren't from no corn fields or swamps, They might have been poor, But they are from westend Louisville, most of them lived in them shotgun houses.
Now West end Louisville might not be the riches place in the world with grass uprooting from concrete on every corner, People shootin and killin each other every chance they get, Thats not exactly rural heychewin culture.
Now don't get me wrong theres nothin wrong with them showing their Southern culture, But to that extreme is just ridiculous.


only three of the members of nappy roots are from Louisville. One is from Oakland, and one is from Bowling Green. But anyway, the group was formed in Bowling Green at Western Kentucky Univeristy, and not Louisville.


I live in west louisville and guess what? Nappy roots is not an embarrasment.

And it's rediculous how you cut in trying to stop people from having a small conversation. I just asked a question and wanted a reply, so if you have a problem with that, then take it somewhere else. I don't wanna take it to a southern thread, if you don't like what's going on, get out. Simple.

You have things all twisted up. The topic is about "which city is the most ghetto" not "who has better rappers" if you were tryin to have a SMALL conversation, then that is fine. Here is the thing though...it ISN'T a SMALL conversation it turned into a LARGE conversation, hijackin the whole thread. It's fuckin 4 pages long of just talkin about rap. And you're tellin me to get out? I'm the one who is stayin on topic...you aren't. Seriously, you have to be really ignorant to tell me to get out if I don't like it when you are way off topic. Isn't it one of the forum rules to stay on topic and not hijack a thread? Yea, I'm sure it is.

only three of the members of nappy roots are from Louisville. One is from Oakland, and one is from Bowling Green. But anyway, the group was formed in Bowling Green at Western Kentucky Univeristy, and not Louisville.


I live in west louisville and guess what? Nappy roots is not an embarrasment.

I guess it depends on the person.
I personally think the way they protrayed Kentucky's largest city (Louisvlle) in the video Po Folks with a termite eaten brown wooden sign crudely painted in white was the word Louisville that was peeling and then when they bring the camera up there's nothin but a lone brokedown wooden house was an embarassment.
Now that's the one video everybodyfrom Louisville said was embarassing.
Hell even my grandma and my momma said it was embarassin.

You have things all twisted up. The topic is about "which city is the most ghetto" not "who has better rappers" if you were tryin to have a SMALL conversation, then that is fine. Here is the thing though...it ISN'T a SMALL conversation it turned into a LARGE conversation, hijackin the whole thread. It's fuckin 4 pages long of just talkin about rap. And you're tellin me to get out? I'm the one who is stayin on topic...you aren't. Seriously, you have to be really ignorant to tell me to get out if I don't like it when you are way off topic. Isn't it one of the forum rules to stay on topic and not hijack a thread? Yea, I'm sure it is.
Dude, I don't know if you have some sick view of hip-hop or something, but I went back 4 pages and they were talking about white gangsters, not Nappy Roots. I don't know about you, but I wanna hear about why Nappy Roots are an embarrassment. Quit whining.



But anyways, I say, why are they an embarrassment? They actually have something to say, unlike most southern artists who only rap about Sizzurp big cars and hoes. Nappy Roots, they talk about what they came from. Like I said, I don't see them "Sittin Sideways", their music is grimy , feel-good music, and I think they sound tight. They can go from some kinda rock sounding song to a really backwoods song. Variety is good.

Dude, I don't know if you have some sick view of hip-hop or something, but I went back 4 pages and they were talking about white gangsters, not Nappy Roots. I don't know about you, but I wanna hear about why Nappy Roots are an embarrassment. Quit whining.

I don't have a sick view of hip-hop. I actually like it. That is not the point though. I'm findin it soo hard to even comprehend why you can not understand that you are way off-topic on this thread and should stop talkin about rap. You wanna hear about rap then start a different thread or PM someone. Otherwise leave the rap talk out of this thread because it's about something completely different. HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT??? Or is it that you don't care? If you don't care, then you're just ignorant. If you don't understand, then you're just oblivious. Either way...it's ridiculous.

Dude, I don't know if you have some sick view of hip-hop or something, but I went back 4 pages and they were talking about white gangsters, not Nappy Roots. I don't know about you, but I wanna hear about why Nappy Roots are an embarrassment. Quit whining.



But anyways, I say, why are they an embarrassment? They actually have something to say, unlike most southern artists who only rap about Sizzurp big cars and hoes. Nappy Roots, they talk about what they came from. Like I said, I don't see them "Sittin Sideways", their music is grimy , feel-good music, and I think they sound tight. They can go from some kinda rock sounding song to a really backwoods song. Variety is good.

Yeah I like the unique varuety of their music, But the way they projected Louisville in "Po Folks" I think it's just ridiulous.
It's like now when people talk about Houston it's about their Hip Hop culture not the stereotyped image of every herdin horses.
I just wish someone would soon project the same image for louisville.

Yeah I like the unique varuety of their music, But the way they projected Louisville in "Po Folks" I think it's just ridiulous.
It's like now when people talk about Houston it's about their Hip Hop culture not the stereotyped image of every herdin horses.
I just wish someone would soon project the same image for louisville.
Trust me, you guys are lucky. Everybody knows Houston, and damn near every other Southern state, puts out some of THE wackest hip-hop artists and singles known to man. If you want that lable, then I don't know what to say.

I like Houston rappers Slim Thug And Paul Wall (not Mic Jones)
I love that screwed and chopped beat, that's what all the new artist comin out of Louisville are usin.
Hopefully some will make it big.

I hope Nappy Roots are gone for good!

^why would u wanna be known as another Houston? You want Louisville to be portrayed as just another thug glorifying lifestyle, instead of somethin individual, then i dunno what to say...

Be happy for what Louisville is. Unique.

The Houston mainstream scene? "lane switchin' wit' the paint drippin'" :ohno:

Slim Thug, Mike Jones, and Paul Wall all blow BTW. The real talent lies in Chamillionaire and Z-Ro

^^ agreed

^why would u wanna be known as another Houston? You want Louisville to be portrayed as just another thug glorifying lifestyle, instead of somethin individual, then i dunno what to say...

Be happy for what Louisville is. Unique.

The Houston mainstream scene? "lane switchin' wit' the paint drippin'" :ohno:

Slim Thug, Mike Jones, and Paul Wall all blow BTW. The real talent lies in Chamillionaire and Z-Ro
Exactly! I went to Arlington to my friend's house, the radio was HORRIBLE. ALL they played was that crunk shit. Okay, crunk is good when your in the club or whatever, but who needs to hear crunk at 3 AM?

Arlington? as in Arlington, Texas? If so, I bet you was listening to 97.9 the beat. They are known for that shit. I think hot 107.1 in memphis use to be a strictly crunk station a few months ago but went back to hip hop in r&b.

Milwaukee Wisconsin is a slum infested hell hole.

Milwaukee is in the top 5 most drug infested cities
It has a murder rate that is higher than LA and NYC,and equal to Chicago.
It is number 6 on the most impoverished cities list in 2004
One of the highest property crime rates in America.
It is the nation's most segragated city.
It has one of the highest unemployment rates for black men in america(59%).
It has the highest incarciration rate for black men in the nation.

Hello ! This is Gui from France.
According to the poll results, it seems that you all agree on the fact that Detroit is the most feared and poor city in the U.S..
However, I read somewhere that the city had made a lot of efforts to get over the 70-80's crisis and that it's now a vibrant city struggling to get a better image in the medias and among americans. In other words, do you think Detroit is nowadays suffering from an reputation that's not bounded to reality anymore ?
I mean, it's a big city with a world class music scene (house music...), with a huge industrial history ; It's crowded with a young population etc...There must be, today, a lot of projects of transformation of the industrial heritage, reconstruction...no ?

Detroit isn't out of trouble yet, but it has made massive strides over the past 10 or so years. It is true that the majority of Americans have an ignorant view of Detroit, but it still has a long way to go before it can be considered stable. There has been massive projects in the downtown area and surrounding areas, but many neighborhoods are still in terrible shape. Aside from the growing hispanic population in Southwest Detroit, the city is still losing families to the suburbs due to poor schools and crime. However, the good news is that people (especially young adults and empty-nesters) have taken an interest in the revitalization of many of the core neighborhoods.

I thought this thread got closed?

Milwaukee Wisconsin is a slum infested hell hole.

Milwaukee is in the top 5 most drug infested cities
It has a murder rate that is higher than LA and NYC,and equal to Chicago.
It is number 6 on the most impoverished cities list in 2004
One of the highest property crime rates in America.
It is the nation's most segragated city.
It has one of the highest unemployment rates for black men in america(59%).
It has the highest incarciration rate for black men in the nation.

What bridge did this troll crawl from under?

yes the city has its problems...however look at this thread if you really think we are a slum infested hell hole. Milwaukee (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=157408)

That Milwaukee thread is awsome.... the first one is really funny, and the third one on the river is just awsome, waltersworld, you're a fool to generalize Milwaukee like that.

That Milwaukee thread is awsome.... the first one is really funny, and the third one on the river is just awsome, waltersworld, you're a fool to generalize Milwaukee like that.

great thread, I agree. Best I have ever seen of my town.

I find some of those figures to be a little iffy to be quite honest. The poverty, homicide, and segregation are all sadly true--but that shoudnt warrant Milwaukee a shithole. Our southern neighbor is host to more murders every year than miliitary deaths yearly in Iraq. Same with L.A. and NYC. Are these places shitholes? Rates are overrated (no pun intended)...I would much rather dance in the streets of our Fond du Lac Ave. than some of the worst of the Southside, Compton, or the Bronx.

What bridge did this troll crawl from under?

yes the city has its problems...however look at this thread if you really think we are a slum infested hell hole. Milwaukee (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=157408)

Anyone who knows anything about Milwaukee knows how segragated and racist the city is.Most Black Men dont even have jobs in the city,and 40% of black children are born below the poverty line.The city has huge problems,but the white majority seems obsessed with ignoring and not discussing them.

http://www.jobbankusa.com/News/Hiring/hiring100803a.html
http://www.jsonline.com/news/editorials/jul05/344800.asp

great thread, I agree. Best I have ever seen of my town.

I find some of those figures to be a little iffy to be quite honest. The poverty, homicide, and segregation are all sadly true--but that shoudnt warrant Milwaukee a shithole. Our southern neighbor is host to more murders every year than miliitary deaths yearly in Iraq. [/B[B]] Same with L.A. and NYC. Are these places shitholes? Rates are overrated (no pun intended)...I would much rather dance in the streets of our Fond du Lac Ave. than some of the worst of the Southside, Compton, or the Bronx.


Milwaukees murder rate is statistic wise equal with Chicago, which varies from 20-25 homicides per 100,000 per year.If Milwaukee were the same size as Chicago it would have roughly the same amount of murders.If milwaukee were the same size as NYC it would have over twice the number of homicides as NYC.

You mention Compton,the Bronx, etc,but Milwaukee has neighborhoods that are just as rough as any.Metcalfe park and the Amani neighborhood are two dangerous areas that come to mind.I find it amusing how Milwaukees Black and White populations seemingly live in two diffrent worlds.

Anyone who knows anything about Milwaukee knows how segragated and racist the city is.Most Black Men dont even have jobs in the city,and 40% of black children are born below the poverty line.The city has huge problems,but the white majority seems obsessed with ignoring and not discussing them.

http://www.jobbankusa.com/News/Hiring/hiring100803a.html
http://www.jsonline.com/news/editorials/jul05/344800.asp

do you even live here? Explain why to me that our black population is poor and dont have jobs? Perhaps....its because its like every large American city where much of the inner city blacks dont want to work, cant work due to prior convictions, or didnt graduate high school so they arent elligible for supporting jobs. Poverty can easily be wiped out if young black men would actually provide for their families instead of running off--taking responsibility for their actions. Milwaukee also is a leader in teenage pregnancy which just fucks up more things. These are all problems of the black community, brought on by the black community. City government cant do anything to make these peoples lives better---aside from giving them free money, free food, rent help, free private schools---oh yeah thats right, they already do.

Reddalert, that took balls. It's true too. If anybody of any race has all of those problems, it's not the fault of the city they live in.

Milwaukees murder rate is statistic wise equal with Chicago, which varies from 20-25 homicides per 100,000 per year.If Milwaukee were the same size as Chicago it would have roughly the same amount of murders.If milwaukee were the same size as NYC it would have over twice the number of homicides as NYC.

You mention Compton,the Bronx, etc,but Milwaukee has neighborhoods that are just as rough as any.Metcalfe park and the Amani neighborhood are two dangerous areas that come to mind.I find it amusing how Milwaukees Black and White populations seemingly live in two diffrent worlds.

both Milwaukee and Chicago, as well as the rest of the Great Lakes cities share the same problems. Balimore, Philly, St. Louis,Atlanta, Miami, New Orleans, and many of the poorer Tex/NMex/Ari/and Cali Hispanic dominated cities have their share of problems with both murder, drugs, and homicides.

This doesnt make us any better but it surely doesnt make us a shining example of a city problem in the U.S.

Speaking of the black and white people in different worlds...its actually quite intresting. Our bad areas are so close to the good areas. Take North Ave. as an example. It starts down at Lake Michigan by UWM area where all the cool, intelligent, diverse college crowd hangs out...take it 2-3 minutes west and your in some of the worst hoods the city has to offer. Keep driving through it and not to long is some very nice, walkable storefront shop areas in Wauwatosa.

I have traveled extensively to every major city in the United States. Throughout my travels, the cities with the most run-down areas are as follows:

1) Detroit
2) New York City (count the other borroughs, not just Manhattan)
3) Philadelphia
4) Los Angeles
5) Chicago
6) Houston

Of course, three of those six represent the three largest metropolitan areas in the U.S. Hence, they're most likely to have larger run-down areas.

If we're going to talk about a city as a whole, the cities (metro over 1 million) with the most overall (percentage of city) run down areas are:

1) Detroit

2) New Orleans (Now, I know I'm talking pre-Katrina, but New Orleans was overall a very run-down, demographic ghetto).

3) Philadelphia

4) New York City

5) Washington D.C. (not metro, rather city-proper)

6) Memphis/ Los Angeles (tie)

do you even live here? Explain why to me that our black population is poor and dont have jobs? Perhaps....its because its like every large American city where much of the inner city blacks dont want to work, cant work due to prior convictions, or didnt graduate high school so they arent elligible for supporting jobs. Poverty can easily be wiped out if young black men would actually provide for their families instead of running off--taking responsibility for their actions. Milwaukee also is a leader in teenage pregnancy which just fucks up more things. These are all problems of the black community, brought on by the black community. City government cant do anything to make these peoples lives better---aside from giving them free money, free food, rent help, free private schools---oh yeah thats right, they already do.


White felons get preference over black men with the same work history,qualifications and no criminal record in Milwaukee.Read this article http://www.jobbankusa.com/News/Hiring/hiring100803a.html. Thats nuts.Of coarse liars and racists like you will ignore this and keep pretending that all of these problems are brought on solely by the black community.Of coarse hundreds of years of oppression and rampant racism on all levels of society cant have anything to do with it huh?

Reddalert, that took balls. It's true too. If anybody of any race has all of those problems, it's not the fault of the city they live in.

It is not black mens fault that white men will get choose over them even if that white man is a convicted felon and the black man has a spotless record.You dont think that has anything to do with 75% of white men being employed in Milwaukee while 59% of black men arent employed?Thats insane.If this is supposed to be the ''United'' States than that should be a concern of national importance,just like the Great Depression was.

Reddalert, that took balls. It's true too. If anybody of any race has all of those problems, it's not the fault of the city they live in.

thanks :)

I hate when people have to blame others for their misfortune.

Right down the street from me is this new development, McMansion neighborhood area--pretty much a black neighborhood. Not too far away from that is another area like this with pretty big houses that are also filled with a large number of blacks. This also happens to be a stone throw from some pretty nasty apartment complexes.

Why can these people acheive success and not the others? Its all attitude and work ethic in my opinion. Some lazy bum doing drugs, gangbanging, routinely commiting misdemenors and felonies is NOT going to live a good life.

White felons get preference over black men with the same work history,qualifications and no criminal record in Milwaukee.Read this article http://www.jobbankusa.com/News/Hiring/hiring100803a.html. Thats nuts.Of coarse liars and racists like you will ignore this and keep pretending that all of these problems are brought on solely by the black community.Of coarse hundreds of years of oppression and rampant racism on all levels of society cant have anything to do with it huh?

Racist? I agree that black men get the shaft in many instances...but they are hardly oppressed. So slavery is an excuse for shooting a guy for calling you a bitch? Is slavery also an excuse for impregnating a couple females--not taking care of either the mother or the child? How about stealing from others? How about not going to free school--instead wasting time doing something illegal?

thanks :)

Some lazy bum doing drugs, gangbanging, routinely commiting misdemenors and felonies is NOT going to live a good life.

When that lazy bum is white he STILL would get hired before a black man who does not do crime or drugs.Thats insane.

Sometimes others are partially or fully responsable for others misfortunes.It is not black americans fault that thier lives have been devalued since the Founding Fathers declared them sub human in the constitution.

It is not black mens fault that white men will get choose over them even if that white man is a convicted felon and the black man has a spotless record.You dont think that has anything to do with 75% of white men being employed in Milwaukee while 59% of black men arent employed?Thats insane.If this is supposed to be the ''United'' States than that should be a concern of national importance,just like the Great Depression was.

That is such fuckin bullshit. I have a white friend that cannot find shit for a job--he is a felon. A clean record black man has no problems finding work...you know this. Why arent black men employed? Tell me?

Why is that when I get off school at twelve-1ish, taking the bus home through this ghetto that I see so many men just hanging around, not doing shit? Maybe because its laziness?

When that lazy bum is white he STILL would get hired before a black man who does not do crime or drugs.Thats insane.

Sometimes others are partially or fully responsable for others misfortunes.It is not black americans fault that thier lives have been devalued since the Founding Fathers declared them sub human in the constitution.

Actually, they ignored the issue of slavery in the constitution, Thomas Jefferson had planned on abolishing it, and the only reason that he didn't was because he needed the southern states to ratify the constitution. A drunk white guy would not get hired over a sober black guy. You are making things up now. This isn't the 1920's. I'm guessing you are still in middle school or something.

Racist? I agree that black men get the shaft in many instances...but they are hardly oppressed. So slavery is an excuse for shooting a guy for calling you a bitch? Is slavery also an excuse for impregnating a couple females--not taking care of either the mother or the child? How about stealing from others? How about not going to free school--instead wasting time doing something illegal?


Youre an idiot if you think black americans,especially those in Milwaukee arent oppressed.

Im not talking about stealing,doing anything illegal,etc because it has been proven that even if a white man does engage in illegal acts,he STILL gets hired before a black man who could be a living saint.Thats called oppression.

59% of black men are unemployed in Milwaukee,and they are struggling day by day to make it.Even when they do things the right way,they still get treated as second class citizens.we all know if white men were to show that level of unemployment it would be a national problem.How come when its blacks its ignored?

When that lazy bum is white he STILL would get hired before a black man who does not do crime or drugs.Thats insane.

Sometimes others are partially or fully responsable for others misfortunes.It is not black americans fault that thier lives have been devalued since the Founding Fathers declared them sub human in the constitution.

Thats a lie. Almost every employer is not going to take a former felon--black, white, or brown. Why is that colleges tend to take a black man than a white man if they have about the same grades? Why do blacks and other minorities get bonus points for being police, firefighters, and other civic jobs? Ever see the number of black police, black firefighters, black construction workers, and blacks working for the County?

^^ That is VERY true, ever heard of a little thing called AFFIRMITIVE ACTION waltersworld?

That is such fuckin bullshit. I have a white friend that cannot find shit for a job--he is a felon. A clean record black man has no problems finding work...you know this. Why arent black men employed? Tell me?

Why is that when I get off school at twelve-1ish, taking the bus home through this ghetto that I see so many men just hanging around, not doing shit? Maybe because its laziness?

Since you arent smart enough to simply press the links I posted,I suppose I will have to copy/paste a news article I found in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

Yet another study finds that racial discrimination is alive and well in the hiring process, and it's keeping black men in metro Milwaukee on the unemployment rolls.

The study offers this fictional scenario:

A young, white, male high school graduate with a felony conviction applies in person for entry level jobs as a driver, a dishwasher, a laborer, warehouse worker and production worker that are advertised in the newspaper and admits to employers that he served 18 months in prison for possession of cocaine with intent to sell.

A young black man with similar education, work history and style of presentation, but with no criminal record, applies for the same jobs.

Who do you think is more likely to be called back?

If you picked the white man with the felony conviction, you guessed right.

This study offers evidence that discrimination remains a major factor in the economic lives of black men, and highlights the fear and misunderstanding of black males that permeate the local job market.

Devah Pager, a sociologist at Northwestern University in Evanston, Ill., sent equally matched pairs of testers - two black and two white - to apply for low-skilled jobs at 350 places of employment in the Milwaukee area and found that white ex-offenders were more likely to be called back for an interview than black applicants who had no criminal record.

Students test employers

In this detailed study, bright, articulate, college students posed as job applicants. Even though the results were strikingly close, black men without criminal records were called back only 14% of the time, while whites with criminal records were called back 17% of the time.

The study, titled "The Mark of a Criminal Record," was conducted in Milwaukee between June and December 2001, and the results were released last month.

"It shows there's a great deal of work that has to be done in the education of employers and working on attitudes," says Julia Taylor, president of the Greater Milwaukee Committee. "This type of racial disparity in employment practices really impacts us as a region. It impacts our work force, and it really impacts how the inner-city moves forward."

Pager chose Milwaukee for her experiment because it is representative of most large metropolitan areas in its size, racial demographics and industrial base, she says.

The study's findings would surprise few African-Americans in this city, who know from experience that this kind of discrimination exists in the job market. Research shows that white Americans, however, have been led to think that direct, racial discrimination of this nature has become less of a problem in our society.

It was even surprising to Pager, a young white woman.

"I expected that there would be an effect of race. I thought the effect of a criminal record would swamp other effects," Pager says. "That assumption was clearly wrong. It really suggests that stereotypes and assumptions about black males are very much a factor in hiring decisions."

Facing tougher odds

The study demonstrates the increased odds black male ex-offenders face in finding employment and successfully reintegrating into the economic mainstream, says Lenard Wells, chairman of the Milwaukee Parole Commission and a former Milwaukee police officer.

"It's as if there's a concerted effort to keep black men from getting employment, to keep them oppressed," says Wells, former president of the League of Martin, an organization of black Milwaukee police officers.

"We say we want to reintegrate individuals into the community. We say that we want to do something about unemployment in the black community, yet we want to pretend that it's a criminal record that prevents blacks from getting jobs. It's blatant, undisputed, racism," he says.

Combine the effects of race and a criminal record, and the problem becomes worse. For instance, only 5% of black men with criminal records received callbacks from employers, the study found.

White men without criminal records fared the best in the Milwaukee-area job market, with 34% receiving callbacks from employers.

Keep in mind that it's illegal to discriminate against applicants with criminal records unless the circumstances of the crime correspond closely to the requirements of the job, says Phoebe Weaver Williams, an associate professor of law at Marquette University who specializes in employment discrimination.

"What's frustrating is that, after so many years of having laws in place, the laws haven't corrected the problem," Weaver Williams says.

Clearly, the study's findings demonstrate that a criminal record closes doors on employment.

Still, employers are averse to taking risks on black applicants, whom they perceive to have criminal tendencies, the study says. For example, black testers were more likely to be asked by employers whether they had any convictions, yet none of the white testers were asked about their criminal histories up front.

Image problems

A couple of factors that work against young black men is their portrayal in the media as gangsters, thugs and rappers on the fringes of society, and the fact that more black men are going to prison than college, according to a report by the U.S. Justice Department.

The sad reality is that the majority of those inmates will be released back into communities where they have little opportunity to obtain legitimate work. Research shows that one of the factors for recidivism is employment.

Black felons face a hostile job market in Milwaukee, says Wendell Hruska, associate director of Project Return, a Milwaukee agency that helps felons and people convicted of misdemeanors find employment.

"Discrimination is very much a problem. That's what we've been hearing from our clients," Hruska says. "A lot of people get discouraged. Unfortunately, many of them give up. You really can't blame people when you've been out there for months putting in applications and you hear nothing back."

This research helps us measure the degree of discrimination that exists in the hiring process.

But the question remains: How do we attack a problem that so affects the economic lives of black men in Milwaukee, where many employers still make hiring decisions colored by fear and misunderstanding?

Youre an idiot if you think black americans,especially those in Milwaukee arent oppressed.

Im not talking about stealing,doing anything illegal,etc because it has been proven that even if a white man does engage in illegal acts,he STILL gets hired before a black man who could be a living saint.Thats called oppression.

59% of black men are unemployed in Milwaukee,and they are struggling day by day to make it.Even when they do things the right way,they still get treated as second class citizens.we all know if white men were to show that level of unemployment it would be a national problem.How come when its blacks its ignored?

oppression is illegal...and I sure as hell that if it happened on the level you are talking about---lawsuits would be everywhere. Again, you are lying. A felon white man will not get a job over a clean black man. Its just not the truth, its illegal, and a violation of the Constitiution.

Blacks arent ignored..they ignore themselves. Why do so many black men abandon their famliies? This is what continues the chain of poverty. There are so many opportunities for black men in the U.S. to achieve....sadly many dont take it. I heard somewhere that there is millions and millions of college money for minorities....that isnt used because of lack of intrest by the minorities.

Thats a lie. Almost every employer is not going to take a former felon--black, white, or brown. Why is that colleges tend to take a black man than a white man if they have about the same grades? Why do blacks and other minorities get bonus points for being police, firefighters, and other civic jobs? Ever see the number of black police, black firefighters, black construction workers, and blacks working for the County?

No,youre a lie.It has been proven that an employer will take a white felon over a black men with no record.That means skin color is the most important thing in the Milwaukee job market.

^^ put a link of the page you saw that "proven" fact on, you moron.

who wrote that Eugene Kane?

Again waltersworld, ever heard of AFFIRMITIVE ACTION!!!!

again walter. where is your proof?

oppression is illegal...and I sure as hell that if it happened on the level you are talking about---lawsuits would be everywhere. Again, you are lying. A felon white man will not get a job over a clean black man. Its just not the truth, its illegal, and a violation of the Constitiution.

Blacks arent ignored..they ignore themselves. Why do so many black men abandon their famliies? This is what continues the chain of poverty. There are so many opportunities for black men in the U.S. to achieve....sadly many dont take it. I heard somewhere that there is millions and millions of college money for minorities....that isnt used because of lack of intrest by the minorities.

I assure you its the truth.As much as you want to believe that black men have the same oppratunties as white men but somehow just choose to be jobless,locked up,and poor thats just not the case.

No,youre a lie.It has been proven that an employer will take a white felon over a black men with no record.That means skin color is the most important thing in the Milwaukee job market.

lol...you are so full of it. At every place in Milwaukee that I shop or see people working--its mainly blacks. Blacks at Pick N' Save. Blacks at McDonalds. Blacks reworkign the Marquette Interchange. Blacks driving city buses. Blacks working many factories. Blacks working in libaries, universities, law offices, hospitals ...etc. Sure, many of the high paying jobs are white occupied...but its the same in every city.

Why do so many black men abandon their famliies?

That's a really great question. I'd be interested to hear waltersworld's take on it.

Again waltersworld, ever heard of AFFIRMITIVE ACTION!!!!

Yes I have.But its not helping black men in Milwaukee.

oh, whatever. boo hoo.

lol...you are so full of it. At every place in Milwaukee that I shop or see people working--its mainly blacks. Blacks at Pick N' Save. Blacks at McDonalds. Blacks reworkign the Marquette Interchange. Blacks driving city buses. Blacks working many factories. Blacks working in libaries, universities, law offices, hospitals ...etc. Sure, many of the high paying jobs are white occupied...but its the same in every city.


Most blacks working in Milwaukee are females.Most black men in Milwaukee(59%) do not have jobs.


Why do you refuse to believe truth?

That's a really great question. I'd be interested to hear waltersworld's take on it.

the black community always tends to ignore this--blaming every problem on white people. A jack up in our bus ticket costs due to high gas costs, larger routes,and relatively low ridership---WHITE MAN TRYING TO HOLD THE BLACK MAN FROM GETTING TO HIS JOB!!!!!!

The only ones who seem to be doing it right are the black churches and Bill Cosby. Listen to Bill Cosby sometime talk about black problems.

^ ok, if black WOMEN have jobs, and black MEN don't, that should SCREAM something at you. It is OBVIOUSLY laziness if the WOMEN are getting all of the jobs, because it is true that there is discrimination agains women in the job market. You just bit yourself in the ass walter.

oh, whatever. boo hoo.

Typical white male response.Except when it was YOU guys facing that type of job market,it was Americas's Great Depression.

the black community always tends to ignore this--blaming every problem on white people. A jack up in our bus ticket costs due to high gas costs, larger routes,and relatively low ridership---WHITE MAN TRYING TO HOLD THE BLACK MAN FROM GETTING TO HIS JOB!!!!!!

The only ones who seem to be doing it right are the black churches and Bill Cosby. Listen to Bill Cosby sometime talk about black problems.

Study shows how deeply black men face discrimination in hiring
Last Updated: Oct. 8, 2003
Opportunities



Tannette Johnson-Elie
E-MAIL | ARCHIVE


Yet another study finds that racial discrimination is alive and well in the hiring process, and it's keeping black men in metro Milwaukee on the unemployment rolls.

The study offers this fictional scenario:

A young, white, male high school graduate with a felony conviction applies in person for entry level jobs as a driver, a dishwasher, a laborer, warehouse worker and production worker that are advertised in the newspaper and admits to employers that he served 18 months in prison for possession of cocaine with intent to sell.

Job Applicants Survey


Graphic/Journal Sentinel
Racial Discrimination



A young black man with similar education, work history and style of presentation, but with no criminal record, applies for the same jobs.

Who do you think is more likely to be called back?

If you picked the white man with the felony conviction, you guessed right.

This study offers evidence that discrimination remains a major factor in the economic lives of black men, and highlights the fear and misunderstanding of black males that permeate the local job market.

Devah Pager, a sociologist at Northwestern University in Evanston, Ill., sent equally matched pairs of testers - two black and two white - to apply for low-skilled jobs at 350 places of employment in the Milwaukee area and found that white ex-offenders were more likely to be called back for an interview than black applicants who had no criminal record.

Students test employers
In this detailed study, bright, articulate, college students posed as job applicants. Even though the results were strikingly close, black men without criminal records were called back only 14% of the time, while whites with criminal records were called back 17% of the time.

The study, titled "The Mark of a Criminal Record," was conducted in Milwaukee between June and December 2001, and the results were released last month.

"It shows there's a great deal of work that has to be done in the education of employers and working on attitudes," says Julia Taylor, president of the Greater Milwaukee Committee. "This type of racial disparity in employment practices really impacts us as a region. It impacts our work force, and it really impacts how the inner-city moves forward."

Pager chose Milwaukee for her experiment because it is representative of most large metropolitan areas in its size, racial demographics and industrial base, she says.

The study's findings would surprise few African-Americans in this city, who know from experience that this kind of discrimination exists in the job market. Research shows that white Americans, however, have been led to think that direct, racial discrimination of this nature has become less of a problem in our society.

It was even surprising to Pager, a young white woman.

"I expected that there would be an effect of race. I thought the effect of a criminal record would swamp other effects," Pager says. "That assumption was clearly wrong. It really suggests that stereotypes and assumptions about black males are very much a factor in hiring decisions."

Facing tougher odds
The study demonstrates the increased odds black male ex-offenders face in finding employment and successfully reintegrating into the economic mainstream, says Lenard Wells, chairman of the Milwaukee Parole Commission and a former Milwaukee police officer.

"It's as if there's a concerted effort to keep black men from getting employment, to keep them oppressed," says Wells, former president of the League of Martin, an organization of black Milwaukee police officers.

"We say we want to reintegrate individuals into the community. We say that we want to do something about unemployment in the black community, yet we want to pretend that it's a criminal record that prevents blacks from getting jobs. It's blatant, undisputed, racism," he says.

Combine the effects of race and a criminal record, and the problem becomes worse. For instance, only 5% of black men with criminal records received callbacks from employers, the study found.

White men without criminal records fared the best in the Milwaukee-area job market, with 34% receiving callbacks from employers.

Keep in mind that it's illegal to discriminate against applicants with criminal records unless the circumstances of the crime correspond closely to the requirements of the job, says Phoebe Weaver Williams, an associate professor of law at Marquette University who specializes in employment discrimination.

"What's frustrating is that, after so many years of having laws in place, the laws haven't corrected the problem," Weaver Williams says.

Clearly, the study's findings demonstrate that a criminal record closes doors on employment.

Still, employers are averse to taking risks on black applicants, whom they perceive to have criminal tendencies, the study says. For example, black testers were more likely to be asked by employers whether they had any convictions, yet none of the white testers were asked about their criminal histories up front.

Image problems
A couple of factors that work against young black men is their portrayal in the media as gangsters, thugs and rappers on the fringes of society, and the fact that more black men are going to prison than college, according to a report by the U.S. Justice Department.

The sad reality is that the majority of those inmates will be released back into communities where they have little opportunity to obtain legitimate work. Research shows that one of the factors for recidivism is employment.

Black felons face a hostile job market in Milwaukee, says Wendell Hruska, associate director of Project Return, a Milwaukee agency that helps felons and people convicted of misdemeanors find employment.

"Discrimination is very much a problem. That's what we've been hearing from our clients," Hruska says. "A lot of people get discouraged. Unfortunately, many of them give up. You really can't blame people when you've been out there for months putting in applications and you hear nothing back."

This research helps us measure the degree of discrimination that exists in the hiring process.

But the question remains: How do we attack a problem that so affects the economic lives of black men in Milwaukee, where many employers still make hiring decisions colored by fear and misunderstanding?

Most blacks working in Milwaukee are females.Most black men in Milwaukee(59%) do not have jobs.


Why do you refuse to believe truth?

well its common knowledge black men dont all have jobs. You also have to atrribute not getting a job to laziness and criminality. Again, why is that most young, teen-20 something black men are NOT working somewhere? These people have a great chance. They choose to hang out with their buddies instead though. Try taking the bus in the inner city once.

^ ok, if black WOMEN have jobs, and black MEN don't, that should SCREAM something at you. It is OBVIOUSLY laziness if the WOMEN are getting all of the jobs, because it is true that there is discrimination agains women in the job market. You just bit yourself in the ass walter.

No its not laziness.Its discrimination.The majority of employers(who are white in Milwaukee) CHOOSE black women over black men for whatever reason.They also choose white felons over black men with no record.

^ ok, if black WOMEN have jobs, and black MEN don't, that should SCREAM something at you. It is OBVIOUSLY laziness if the WOMEN are getting all of the jobs, because it is true that there is discrimination agains women in the job market. You just bit yourself in the ass walter.

:applause:

Maybe these black women have to support their child. These immature, irresponsible kids sure arent being men and taking care of their families.

This really good question is being ignored:

Why do so many black men abandon their families?

well its common knowledge black men dont all have jobs. You also have to atrribute not getting a job to laziness and criminality. Again, why is that most young, teen-20 something black men are NOT working somewhere? These people have a great chance. They choose to hang out with their buddies instead though. Try taking the bus in the inner city once.

No they dont have a great chance.And no its not laziness or criminality because even white criminals have a better chance at getting a job than a black man who is not a criminal.You keep ignoring this but its a proven fact.

No its not laziness.Its discrimination.The majority of employers(who are white in Milwaukee) CHOOSE black women over black men for whatever reason.They also choose white felons over black men with no record.

why hire a black woman? Thats almost a double negative in the area of discrimnation?

I got to go guys...cyall later.

This really good question is being ignored:

Why do so many black men abandon their families?


Women tend to not want unemployed men around.And most Black men In milwuakee are unemployed.And no,its not all thier fault.

why hire a black woman? Thats almost a double negative in the area of discrimnation?

I got to go guys...cyall later.

Ask Milwaukee employers that.For whatever reason they choose black women,and even white felons,over black men.

Women tend to not want unemployed men around.And most Black men In milwuakee are unemployed.And no,its not all thier fault.

I knew you'd blame on whitey. Explain then why black families were stronger long ago and during the civil rights era, when blacks faced way more discrimination and racism than they do now? Black men did not abandon their families back then like they do now.

I knew you'd blame on whitey. Explain then why black families were stronger long ago and during the civil rights era, when blacks faced way more discrimination and racism than they do now? Black men did not abandon their families back then like they do now.

good point!

:applause:

Maybe these black women have to support their child. These immature, irresponsible kids sure arent being men and taking care of their families.

Its hard to take care of yourself,let alone a family,when you can barely take care of yourself.Of coarse(racist) white society will ignore rampant discrimination while readily pointing the finger at the black man for ''choosing'' to fill up the prisons and be unemployed.

This really good question is being ignored:

Why do so many black men abandon their families?
But why is it just black men? Do they have the highest abandoned rate ?

I got one last thing to say before I go.


I once heard that Milwaukee has the youngest black population. Young, fresh people who can shape their own future. Now go to Milwaukee and find a group of young blacks. What are they wearing? 70 dollar shirt, 80 dollar RocaWear pants, 120 Jordans or Tims, a gold or silver chain WITH pendant, 30 dollar New Era hat, expensive watch, and some even have gold/plantinum pimp teeth. Does that scream poverty or unemployed to you? Some of these black men wear more than half the cost of my wardrobe in one day. Look at their cars. Not all of them but alot (especially in the poorer areas)....nice cars, huge rims, new paintjob, thousand dollar stereo system, maybe some hydroulics. How much do these rims cost you may ask? Now why cant they support a girfriend or child?

I knew you'd blame on whitey. Explain then why black families were stronger long ago and during the civil rights era, when blacks faced way more discrimination and racism than they do now? Black men did not abandon their families back then like they do now.

Actually black men had better job oppratunties in the 60s and 70s than they do now.And racism and discrimination never stopped,or even slowed down,in america,its just ignored now.Read the article below.This is why more stuck around and took care of thier families.If the ''United'' States actually treated blacks like they were part of the USA instead of outcasts,Im sure these problems could be fixed.


www.jsonline.com Return to regular view

Original URL: http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/dec04/281193.asp


Hit by a global train
Job loss worse than the Great Depression's in Milwaukee's urban center
By JOHN SCHMID
jschmid@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Dec. 4, 2004
First of three parts

No major urban center in America has suffered as much as Milwaukee's from the economic upheaval of a globalizing economy, an exhaustive analysis by the Journal Sentinel has found. No other African-American community worked as intensively at manufacturing products that are no longer made here, or was less prepared for a historic shift from unskilled labor.

A Dream Derailed

Special Report


Photo/Gary Porter
Frank Thompson came from Alabama in 1965 to work at the industrial flagships A.O. Smith and Allis-Chalmers, until the plants shut down. Now, he owns a housing rehabilitation business, Thompson Vision 2000 Inc.



Photo/Gary Porter
Children eat lunch in the cafeteria at Lee Elementary School, 921 W. Meinecke Ave., where 95% are served free or reduced-rate lunches, making it one of the 20 poorest public elementary schools in the city of Milwaukee.



Photo/Gary Porter
Helen Fifer, who lives across the street from Lee School, came with her parents from Alabama to Milwaukee as they followed the lure of good factory jobs. Bessie Sumlin came in 1955 from Arkansas for the same reason. Both have seen the city in its boom years and bust years.



Photo/Gary Porter
Vel Moore (left) said she always manages to find work even without a high school diploma. Her two brothers, including Eddie Moore, are unemployed. Among black communities in America's largest urban centers, Milwaukee's has endured more fallout from a rapid loss of factories.


When you deindustrialize white towns, you see the same phenomenon. Earnings fall. Marriage rates go down. Out-of-wedlock birthrates rise. You see the same behavior as you would in what we normally attribute as the urban
underclass.

- Andrew Sum,
director of the Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University in Boston

Statistics



Introduction
Migration
Education
Blue Collar Jobs
Family Income
Poverty Low
Manufacturing Decline
Income Drop
Poverty High
Unemployment
Not in Labor Market
Education Lag



Median Income



Poverty Rate



Manufacturing Jobs



Jobless Rate



Population vs. Jobs


Boom Years in Bronzeville



Slideshow: Historic photos of Bronzeville


About the Series



For years, folks in Milwaukee have blamed one another for the region's racial disparity and the growing gap between rich and poor. Yet, a generation ago, Milwaukee offered hope, opportunity and jobs to people of all races. What changed?

A special, in-depth report by the Journal Sentinel examines that question. PART1: Hit by global train - An analysis of a half-century of data for the nation's largest cities shows that no urban center fell as far, as fast, as hard as Milwaukee from the upheaval of a globalizing economy. Nor was any city's black work force less prepared for the shift from unskilled labor.
PART 2: A dream derailed - The Milwaukee Road literally encircled the perimeter of Milwaukee's black community, defining where they lived and worked. When it derailed, so did the dreams of a whole community. But now, there are signs the urban core is getting back on track.
PART 3: Emerging markets - A new generation of leaders is advancing market-driven 21st-century solutions for poor neighborhoods. Promise is seen in the city's central location, low transportation costs, cheap land and proximity to universities and the ideas they incubate.

***
Acknowledgements: How the data was collected

***
Still Separate and Unequal: Brown vs. Board of Education: 1954-2004
(A yearlong Journal Sentinel series)


Reporter's Perspective

Wisconsin Public Radio host Ben Merens talks with Journal Sentinel reporter John Schmid about his three-part series, "A Dream Derailed."
GO TO AUDIO

In little more than a generation, Milwaukee has morphed from an El Dorado of unrivaled opportunity for African-Americans - and a beacon for their middle-class aspirations - to a locus of downward mobility without equal among other big U.S. cities.

The result: A depression in the region's urban core far more severe than the Great Depression of the 1930s.

In fact, Milwaukee's working-age black men have suffered almost twice the drop in employment that the nation endured in the Depression. The city's black male employment rate plummeted by 21 percentage points from the peak of America's industrial might in 1970 to the most recent census in 2000 - nearly double the 13 percentage point decline in the national employment rate from 1929 to the Dust Bowl trough of 1933.

In this 50th anniversary year of the U.S. Supreme Court's Brown vs. Board of Education desegregation ruling, as communities across the country undergo a self-examination of their racial progress, a fresh analysis of a half-century of census reports and economic data for the nation's largest cities reveals that none of their urban centers fell as far, as fast, as hard.

Visitors familiar only with Milwaukee's graceful downtown architecture, shoreline parks and clean thoroughfares might not guess that the city harbors racial disparities that exceed those in Detroit, Philadelphia and other archetypes of American urban blight. Despite its roots as a progressive Northern citythat once lured laborers of all races with a bounty of family-supporting jobs, modern Milwaukee falls to the bottom of nearly every index of social distress.

In 1970, at the city's industrial peak, the black poverty rate in Milwaukee was 22% lower than the U.S. black average. That turned around by 2000, when the black poverty rate was 34% higher than the national figure. Among the nation's 20 most populous cities in 2000, Milwaukee had the highest rate of black poverty.

In 1970, the median family income for African-Americans in Milwaukee was 19% higher than the U.S. median income for black families. By 2000, the black family income in Milwaukee was 23% lower than the national figure. In the 2000 census, Milwaukee fell to 49th among the nation's 50 largest metro areas in racial disparities in income.

Milwaukee had the highest black unemployment rate of the major cities surveyed in 2002 by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The bureau also found that 59% of Milwaukee's black males 16 and older were idle, and that the city's black unemployment rate was more than three times its white unemployment rate.

In 2003, an estimated 48% of Milwaukee black children under age 5 lived in poverty. Nationally, the Census Bureau estimated that 39% of all black children under 5 were living below the poverty level.


Wisconsin - where three of every four African-Americans live in Milwaukee - has the nation's highest rates of black teenage births and black incarceration, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation and U.S. Justice Department, respectively.

A growing school of sociologists traces direct links between the wholesale obliteration of blue collar opportunity and a chain reaction of collapsing social structures.

These sociologists are not measuring issues of race, bigotry or welfare culture, which have long been blamed for Milwaukee's social ills.

They use the clean, empirical metrics of economics.

What sets Milwaukee apart, they say, is the force and pace of economic change.

"I don't need arguments of racial discrimination or integration to explain why Milwaukee does as badly," said Andrew Sum, director of the Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University in Boston.

In an age of relentless global competition, Sum says, Milwaukee's African-Americans have experienced more acutely thesame dislocation that small factory towns undergo when they abruptly lose their industry.

"When you deindustrialize white towns, you see the same phenomenon," Sum said. "Earnings fall. Marriage rates go down. Out-of-wedlock birthrates rise. You see the same behavior as you would in what we normally attribute as the urban underclass."

Before he agreed to be interviewed, Sum independently analyzed Milwaukee's census data in his own computerized "regression model" that compared the city's demographic, educational, economic and labor-market variables with those of the nation's 30 biggest cities. "If you had anything like that in the rest of the country, you would call that a massive depression," Sum said.

It is not just a black problem, said Harvard University professor Michael E. Porter, a globalization economist who founded the Initiative for a Competitive Inner City, a Boston-based non-profit corporation that advises distressed cities in the United States and Britain.

Lazy traffic and a profusion of "For Lease" signs downtown reveal more at stake than the lives of those who live only a few miles away in concentrated poverty and fractured families. The crisis in the central city stunts growth across the entire region, warding off investment, keeping visitors at bay, draining the tax base, diverting resources, rendering broad swaths of the city's commercial real estate unused and its labor force idle and unproductive.

"I can tell you quite categorically: Unless Milwaukee is able to create a vital inner-city economy, it will not have a vital regional economy," said Porter, speaking last year to Milwaukee's business and political leaders.

Reliance on low-skill labor
The Journal Sentinel's economic portrait shows that black Milwaukeeans were downsized with unprecedented force because they relied more on low-skill labor than African-Americans in any other American city, North or South. They had come north from a Southern agricultural society, and many hadn't finished high school. A large number were sharecroppers. Yet they could find an abundance of work in a smokestack-and-brewery city once known as the "toolbox to the world."

By 1970, 43% of black Milwaukeeans drew paychecks as industrial laborers - punch press operators, riveters, assembly-line workers, forklift drivers. The work was unglamorous but paid the mortgage and, on occasion, the children's college tuition, as well. Only Detroit, with 39%, came close to Milwaukee's blue collar bonanza for black workers.

Milwaukee was a phenomenal job machine. Cleveland, the 34th most populous city and Milwaukee's closest peer today in terms of economic disparities in its urban core, didn't employ as large a share of its black population in its industrial heyday.

Thousands of black Milwaukeeans, many just out of the Army, worked their way toward the middle class in the decades that followed World War II. They held jobs at blue chip stalwarts such as Allis-Chalmers, Briggs & Stratton, Schlitz Brewing, A.O. Smith and American Motors.

In the 1980s, however, the boom gave way to a scorched-earth bust. Milwaukee lost more than two out of every three factory jobsit had in 1970 - a disappearance of more than 80,000 jobs. The number of lost jobs amounts to more than one-third of the city's current black population.

Today, retired laborers struggle to perpetuate the vision that carried them from the fields to the factories, the dream that they had hoped would lift their children from the factoriesto the universities. Those first-generation laborers see their sons and grandsons in a different world - more than half of the city's working-age black men are idle - without work, not looking for work, disabled, retraining or behind bars.

Men who cannot put dinner on the table also cannot be role models, fathers or husbands, said Sum, at the Center for Labor Market Studies. The crucial years when a young man leaves home, makes a living and gets married are postponed indefinitely. Men are more likely to live at home, less likely to get married and more likely to associate in local groups of similarly idle working-age men.

More success for women
Black women in Milwaukee historically have relied to a lesser degree than men on manual labor and managed a more successful transition into today's economy. As a result, black men operate in a labor market statistically distinct from women, even within the same city. For every seven black Milwaukee men who hold a job, there are 10 black women with work. It's the most lopsided man-to-woman employment ratio for the black population of any big city in the nation, according to Sum's analysis of 2000 census data.

"I can always find work, and I don't have a high school diploma," said Vel Moore, 46.

She relies on temporary agencies to help cover medical costs incurred by her 15-year-old son, Marcel, who was struck by a car and has needed three brain operations. Moore herself suffered a stroke and has had heart surgery. And yet neither of her two older brothers, who had more education than she did, holds a job. The extended family lives together with its 73-year-old mother on the northwest side and shares the same bus pass.

Her brother Edgar refuses to give up. His resume is polished, touting recent training in Microsoft skills and an employment history assembling hydraulic parts (1997-2000) and working at a Golden Chicken restaurant (1976-1993). As Vel Moore speaks on a recent November day, Edgar hustles out of the house to catch the bus for a job interview. He walks with a cane because of leg and spinal injuries from a 1996 accident.

Her other brother, Eddie, meanwhile, cuts a neighbor's lawn.

College-educated African-Americans bemoan the lack of opportunity and hurry to leave Milwaukee as soon as they're old enough, said Margaret Henningsen, co-founder of Legacy Bank Corp., a black-owned central city bank.

"Economically, this is not a good place for blacks," Henningsen, 57, said. "It's a perception and a reality. I'm the oldest of 10 kids, and the rest couldn't wait to get out of here."

The Great Migration that carried millions from the rural South to the industrial North began early in the last century. By a quirk of history, however, African-Americans began to arrive in Milwaukee in large numbers only decades later. Their arrival mostly coincided with the 1946-1973 Golden Era of the American economy, defined by economists as the post-World War II period of unprecedented prosperity. Migrants who found work in Pittsburgh, Chicago or Detroit during the first half of the century had decades of steady work to secure homeownership and get their children educated before the nation began hemorrhaging heavy industry.

The "Late Migration," as local historians call Milwaukee's influx, meant blacks needed to bridge the cultural chasm from sharecropping to a new era of perpetual economic change with exceptional speed. Few were fast enough. "Unfortunately in Milwaukee, that transition didn't occur," said Cory L. Nettles, the state's commerce secretary. "Many kids got jobs that were more similar than dissimilar to their parents'."

The later the arrival, the tougher the circumstances.

"Black men came here with no education, from out of the fields, and worked in the tanneries until they closed their doors. And then they were left with no job and no education," said Bessie Sumlin, who worked for five years in a Milwaukee tannery.

Her husband, James Sumlin, also ended up on the short end of the late migration. A native of Charleston, Miss., James Sumlin arrived in 1968 without a high school education. He landed a job at Blackhawk Leather Ltd., where he worked for 32 years until it shut down four years ago. Blackhawk, like dozens of other tanneries, couldn't compete with cheaper Chinese rivals that are nearer to the world's biggest footwear factories.

Bessie and James Sumlin raised four children in Milwaukee. "Everyone I know who came from the South is struggling," Bessie Sumlin said.

In the commemorative year of the 1954 desegregation ruling, most attention has fallen on schools, not economics. The attention on education is natural: Without schooling, chances are slim of succeeding in a First World economy.

That helps explain why the notion of using economics to understand Milwaukee's racial inequalities remains novel.

"Many liberal explanations of social inequality cite race to the exclusion of other structural variables," argues Harvard University sociologist William Julius Wilson, one of the first scholars to link globalization with the economics of the nation's inner cities.

Sociologists such as Wilson assert that economic evolution and rapid-fire deindustrialization set in motion a domino effect.

It starts as one household after another loses income and cannot patronize neighborhood merchants, who go out of business. Storefronts become vacant and unlighted, inviting crime. Housing prices plunge, or stay depressed, leaving owners without inheritance or equity for loans. In the U.S., those who lose their jobs also lose their medical insurance. "We die from more preventable and treatable conditions," said state Rep. Barbara Toles, a Milwaukee Democrat, echoing statistics from the Washington-based National Institutes of Health.

Chronic financial uncertainty brings family tension. Families go into economic survival mode. Medical care, dental care, schoolwork, social activities fall by the wayside.

Children who hear gunshots or fierce arguments at night have trouble concentrating in school the next day. Life-and-death distractions pose an acute factor in Milwaukee, where the per-capita homicide rate is almost 2 1/2 times that of New York City.

Affecting outlook
The uncertainty of living with day-to-day risk takes a toll of its own. The National Bureau of Economic Research concluded in March that poor urban African-Americans, mindful of their statistical life expectancy, lose the incentive to invest in their own education or physical well-being. They become nihilistic.

"You tend to underinvest in yourself," Sum said. "You get this fatalistic view on life. There's a perception among some young inner-city guys that it doesn't make sense to stay in school because they don't expect to be around long."

And then there's a final twist: Children who fail to get degrees can't even get the menial, low-skill jobs that lured their ancestors north.

"Poverty is the biggest influence in student achievement," said Deb Lindsey, director of assessment and accountability for Milwaukee Public Schools. Citing decades of consistent findings from a spectrum of national think tanks and local school boards, Lindsey added, "It's not a notion, but a fact."

In his book "When Work Disappears: The World of the New Urban Poor," Wilson argues, "Many of today's problems in the inner-city ghetto neighborhoods - crime, family dissolution, welfare, low levels of social organization, and so on - are fundamentally a consequence of the disappearance of work."

Economic upheaval also intensifies pre-existing urban ills, such as racial segregation, said William Frey, a research fellow at the Center on Urban and Metropolitan Policy at the Brookings Institution in Washington.

A reflection of the world
Milwaukee's urban center lies at the forefront of a historic shift that is reshaping the global economy, widening income gaps and fostering a state of permanent insecurity.

The city became a blue collar boomtown because it was once a hotbed of industrial innovation, a sort of heavy-manufacturing version of Silicon Valley. But when the industrial combines went out of business, the Midwest economy splintered into a spectrum of smaller, more agile high-skill firms that no longer rely on migrant or immigrant labor.

Gov. Jim Doyle, laying out his economic vision, implores the state's firms to "compete on the high end" of technology, trade and global sophistication.

Some of those jobs percolate downtown. But mostly they flourish in suburban office parks built on green spaces with ample parking near freeway bypasses. Suburban counties registered a 200% job expansion during the 1970-2000 period of the city's deindustrialization.

By 2001, according to the Census Bureau, 75% of all manufacturing jobs in the four-county metropolitan area were in Milwaukee's suburbs, which represents a reversal from 1963, when 60% of all manufacturing jobs were inside the city limits.

In theory, unemployed blacks simply need to uproot from the city and follow the trail of opportunity. Yet few have left the city because they lack the education, skills, income and, in many cases, means of commuter transportation.

Globalization is hastening a polarization into two distinct labor markets: A First World market of skilled and white collar positions is concentrated in downtown high-rises and suburban business parks, while a 20th-century urban work force competes for jobs with Chinese peasants willing to work for as little as 25 cents an hour. "It leads to cultural and economic isolation," said Nettles, the commerce secretary.

American jobs in the 21st century increasingly demand a college degree or other high skill set. Only 39% of black men in the U.S. without a high school diploma had a job in 2000; of those who had a college degree, 79% had a job.

In Milwaukee, only 8.4% of the adult black men hold a four-year college degree - the lowest rate among major U.S. cities.

Educational barriers don't stop there. About one-third of the city's black adults are high school dropouts - an estimated 35,000 people. Milwaukee's percentage of African-Americans without diplomas is the second-highest among the 20 largest U.S. cities. And Wisconsin last year recorded the highest percentage of black eighth-graders who fell into the lowest category of reading and math performance, boding poorly for their future.

Jobs of a different sort
"The character and quality of American job creation is changing before our very eyes," argues Stephen S. Roach, chief economist for the Morgan Stanley investment banking group.

The transformation manifests itself in the abundance of low-end jobs that the current recovery has created, Roach found. With the 2001 recession decimating both professional and manufacturing jobs, a disproportionate number of the emergent jobs in the recovery lies in restaurants, temporary service agencies, courier services, hotels and social-work agencies. "The great American job machine is not even close to generating the surge of the high-powered jobs that is typically the driving force behind greater incomes and consumer demand," Roach found.

Milwaukee's urban center, in particular, remains vulnerable to further restructuring. As recently as 2000, Milwaukee retained the highest percentage of black residents employed in blue collar jobs among the 20 largest cities.

The central city isn't alone. The Milwaukee region lags behind the rest of the nation in the metamorphosis to a high-skill, post-industrial economy. The Progressive Policy Institute in Washington ranked metro Milwaukee No. 40 among 50 U.S. cities in its broad Metropolitan New Economy Index, which measures the overall number of technology jobs, scientists, engineers, patents, schools and venture capital. It trails Chicago (19), St. Louis (27), Detroit (28) and Cleveland (33). Meanwhile, the California-based Milken Institute last month reported that the Milwaukee-area economy slid to No. 163 among 200 cities in an annual job-creation ranking of best-performing cities.

Even Alan Greenspan, chairman of the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank in Washington, sounds worried. The central banker, perhaps one of the last to raise alarms about poverty, sees a worsening nationwide labor-market mismatch. "The effect of increasing concentration of incomes is not desirable in a democratic society," Greenspan told a congressional panel in July.

It's a challenging environment for a new generation of civic leaders. One thing that unites the new leadership is a general awareness that the old models of urban rehabilitation don't work.

"When you start to look at several generations relying on welfare, it's safe to say that welfare is not a viable option or solution for helping people climb out of poverty," said Nettles, who calls himself "a poor black kid from Milwaukee," but one who earned a law degree.

In an age of record federal deficits, few expect relief from taxpayer-funded programs. And with an abundance of cheap labor in Mexico and China, no one expects to lure major new factories to Milwaukee and re-create the old model of big industrial combines.

More than ever before, America's urban communities are left to their own devices in a global economy that rewards the strong and agile at the expense of those who stand still.

In this hypercompetitive environment, the seeds for Milwaukee's rejuvenation are being sown.

NOTE: The statistics included in this story and the accompanying graphics come from a variety of federal and state reports released since 1960 on the social and economic conditions in Milwaukee, other major cities and the United States. In developing this report, Journal Sentinel database editor Mark Maley analyzed data on jobs, income, education, poverty and other areas from the U.S. Census Bureau, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development and other government agencies.



From the Dec. 5, 2004, editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
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I got one last thing to say before I go.


I once heard that Milwaukee has the youngest black population. Young, fresh people who can shape their own future. Now go to Milwaukee and find a group of young blacks. What are they wearing? 70 dollar shirt, 80 dollar RocaWear pants, 120 Jordans or Tims, a gold or silver chain WITH pendant, 30 dollar New Era hat, expensive watch, and some even have gold/plantinum pimp teeth. Does that scream poverty or unemployed to you? Some of these black men wear more than half the cost of my wardrobe in one day. Look at their cars. Not all of them but alot (especially in the poorer areas)....nice cars, huge rims, new paintjob, thousand dollar stereo system, maybe some hydroulics. How much do these rims cost you may ask? Now why cant they support a girfriend or child?


Blacks cant possibly wear nice clothes since they are oppressed right?Youre an idiot.

Actually black men had better job oppratunties in the 60s and 70s than they do now.And racism and discrimination never stopped,or even slowed down,in america,its just ignored now.

If you truly believe that, then I've got nothing else to say.

I got one last thing to say before I go.


I once heard that Milwaukee has the youngest black population. Young, fresh people who can shape their own future. Now go to Milwaukee and find a group of young blacks. What are they wearing? 70 dollar shirt, 80 dollar RocaWear pants, 120 Jordans or Tims, a gold or silver chain WITH pendant, 30 dollar New Era hat, expensive watch, and some even have gold/plantinum pimp teeth. Does that scream poverty or unemployed to you? Some of these black men wear more than half the cost of my wardrobe in one day. Look at their cars. Not all of them but alot (especially in the poorer areas)....nice cars, huge rims, new paintjob, thousand dollar stereo system, maybe some hydroulics. How much do these rims cost you may ask? Now why cant they support a girfriend or child?

Of coarse,no black kid should be wearing expensive shoes since 59% of black men are unemployed right?They should all wear rags and filthy clothing,than maybe,just maybe,america will finally stop ignoring them and actually treat them like full fledged americans?

Im black ok , and I have to say that black peoples priorites are wayyyyy out of order. Not all, but a good majority.You see people buying the best cars that are out right now, but when you look at their house its like WOAH. What is going on?? We need to step up and stop blaming people for our problems .
With that said, there is also a good majority of people who would love to see the black man down. Im not a man, but I know that is is very hard to be a black man. Ok, I dont want to turn this into a race thread so im going to leave it at that.

If you truly believe that, then I've got nothing else to say.

Its true.research the subject.You might not see whites only signs,but america is still a very racist country.

Im black ok , and I have to say that black peoples priorites are wayyyyy out of order. Not all, but a good majority.You see people buying the best cars that are out right now, but when you look at their house its like WOAH. What is going on?? We need to step up and stop blaming people for our problems .
With that said, there is also a good majority of people who would love to see the black man down. Im not a man, but I know that is is very hard to be a black man. Ok, I dont want to turn this into a race thread so im going to leave it at that.


It is not black mens fault they get discriminated against.Black people like you need to stop ignoring these problems because you feel it may make white people feel uncomfortable.Milwaukee has serious racial problems,and they need to be addressed.

Bottom line is Segregation and poverty go hand in hand. Do we need another hurricane Katrina to make it even more obvious? I mean when will people wake the hell up?

Bottom line is Segregation and poverty go hand in hand. Do we need another hurricane Katrina to make it even more obvious? I mean when will people wake the hell up?

The majority of white people dont care because it doesnt effect them.They dont want to wake up and realize the truth.

Most people can acknowledge that. There are many that don't but I think a problem a lot of people have is that it's a two way street. Society as a whole is less ignorant than they were decades ago, but there are two many blacks that are screwing themselves, perhaps b/c the discrimination has become a culture and fixing it is almost futile. But at the same time, there are a lot of hard working blacks out there that are discriminated against because of ignorance and b/c of ignorant blacks perpetuating the stereotypes and negativity.

Don't get me wrong, it's not all black people's faults, but there is definitely a divison right now among blacks.

I got one last thing to say before I go.


I once heard that Milwaukee has the youngest black population. Young, fresh people who can shape their own future. Now go to Milwaukee and find a group of young blacks. What are they wearing? 70 dollar shirt, 80 dollar RocaWear pants, 120 Jordans or Tims, a gold or silver chain WITH pendant, 30 dollar New Era hat, expensive watch, and some even have gold/plantinum pimp teeth. Does that scream poverty or unemployed to you? Some of these black men wear more than half the cost of my wardrobe in one day. Look at their cars. Not all of them but alot (especially in the poorer areas)....nice cars, huge rims, new paintjob, thousand dollar stereo system, maybe some hydroulics. How much do these rims cost you may ask? Now why cant they support a girfriend or child?

Wow thats a very generalizing and sterotypical statement. Are you saying Young White men in Milwaukee don't wear and do some of those things? Anyway, this is nothing new. Are you critisizing young black men for spending their money to look nice? Do you really need to see people with holes in their pants and no shirts and shoes to make you beleive poverty exists? If so, thats a damn shame. It used to be Zoot Suits in the 40's and 50's , now its hip hop clothing....can't people spend a little money and have a few nice things? What are young black men supposed to be spending their money on anyway? A house?

Im black ok , and I have to say that black peoples priorites are wayyyyy out of order. Not all, but a good majority.You see people buying the best cars that are out right now, but when you look at their house its like WOAH. What is going on?? We need to step up and stop blaming people for our problems .
With that said, there is also a good majority of people who would love to see the black man down. Im not a man, but I know that is is very hard to be a black man. Ok, I dont want to turn this into a race thread so im going to leave it at that.

Well said. A balanced approach is always the best approach. Yes, there are still racists out there and at the same time there are black folks that are quick to blame anyone else but themselves for their problems. It goes both ways.

What do you think about the anti-intellectual attitude and the popularity of ebonics among the young black community?

It is not black mens fault they get discriminated against.Black people like you need to stop ignoring these problems because you feel it may make white people feel uncomfortable.Milwaukee has serious racial problems,and they need to be addressed.
Wait a minute buddy, part of solving the problem is recognizing the truth. OUR priorities are out of order. Theres no and, if, buts about it.
Number two, i never said there wasnt any racial problems because believe me I know racism is alive and well. Like soulbrotha said, does Katrina ring a bell?Its like you only read half of my post.
Stop putting words in my mouth because you obviously are in denial about some things.

The anti-cheesehead I believe that ebonics should not be spoken when applying for a job. Its ok to use around your friends, but you have to know how to switch it off. You cant go around speaking it all the time.LOL. Thats just...no.

Well said. A balanced approach is always the best approach. Yes, there are still racists out there and at the same time there are black folks that are quick to blame anyone else but themselves for their problems. It goes both ways.

What do you think about the anti-intellectual attitude and the popularity of ebonics among the young black community?


White america being racist has always been a huge part of black americas problem.

There are many intellectual blacks.White felons still get chances when they dont.There are many blacks with no criminal record.White felons still get chances when they dont.WHy?Because america is racist.

The anti-cheesehead I believe that ebonics should not be spoken when applying for a job. Its ok to use around your friends, but you have to know how to switch it off. You cant go around speaking it all the time.LOL. Thats just...no.


What is ebonics by your defnition? There are some places that you can go in the south where Black people speak in ways that you would never be able to understand, but its not ebonics. It results from a very sub-par educational system that has been present for years and years, so its passed down from generation to generation.

White america being racist has always been a huge part of black americas problem.

There are many intellectual blacks.White felons still get chances when they dont.There are many blacks with no criminal record.White felons still get chances when they dont.WHy?Because america is racist.

Peter Jennings (RIP) was a high school drop-out, yet he was able to become an anchor man for a major news station. I don't see any black high school drop out being able to do what he did.

Wait a minute buddy, part of solving the problem is recognizing the truth. OUR priorities are out of order. Theres no and, if, buts about it.
Number two, i never said there wasnt any racial problems because believe me I know racism is alive and well. Like soulbrotha said, does Katrina ring a bell?Its like you only read half of my post.
Stop putting words in my mouth because you obviously are in denial about some things.

Im not in denial about anything.Some of us seek white approval and are concerned with making them feel comfortable.Discrimination from white america is a HUGE part of black americas problem.Always has been.

Mind telling me what I am in denial about?

Think about this for a second:

Is it possible for an entire group of people to be solely to blame for another group of people's problems? Is it possible for an entire group of people to be 100% guilty and a different group of people to be 100% innocent, free from all blame? Is it really that black and white? (pun not intended)

Sorry but i do not seek white approval. Im comfortable in my skin and what I do.
Lets see.... your in denial about the fact that a lot of blacks priorities are out of order.You also seem to put white people in one category yet you get angry when they do the same.

Think about this for a second:

Is it possible for an entire group of people to be solely to blame for another group of people's problems? Is it possible for an entire group of people to be 100% guilty and a different group of people to be 100% innocent, free from all blame? Is it really that black and white? (pun not intended)

What group has and still does have all the power, makes all the decisions, and makes the most money? As long as those stay the same, then things will probably stay the same for the opposite group. If things are really so equal now why haven't things evened out? Why haven't we had a black president? Why is there only 1 Black U.S. senetor? There have only been 3 black u.s. senetors in the last 150 years....I see a red light flashing somewhere....

Aniti cheesehead there are a lot of people like walter out there who blame everyone and put them all in the same basket. Whine and complain and say we cant do this....then there are people like me, who know that although racism is clearly alive but doesnt let that slow them down.

What is ebonics by your defnition? There are some places that you can go in the south where Black people speak in ways that you would never be able to understand, but its not ebonics. It results from a very sub-par educational system that has been present for years and years, so its passed down from generation to generation.
Well Im not from the south so I dont know about that.

Aniti cheesehead there are a lot of people like walter out there who blame everyone and put them all in the same basket. Whine and complain and say we cant do this....then there are people like me, who know that although racism is clearly alive but doesnt let that slow them down.


There is something wrong when just because it doesn't affect you, or has yet to, everything is ok.

Racism does effect me. Just because Im not cursing them out, doesnt mean Im not affected.

Detroit or some counties in new jersey :runaway:

Ok, so know that we know which cities are more "ghetto" what are we going to do to change it?

Aniti cheesehead there are a lot of people like walter out there who blame everyone and put them all in the same basket. Whine and complain and say we cant do this....then there are people like me, who know that although racism is clearly alive but doesnt let that slow them down.


What did I say that we couldnt do?And how come when a black men discusses racism its whining?Why cant it be discussing reality?

How do you know what i am and am not doing?

seems like you are one of those Clarence Thomas like ''sisters.''

Youre not like ''us'' are you?

^ I believe earlier in the post you were taking up for black men who cant get a job, take care of their kids ect.Meanwhile I know a lot of blacks who are successful. You think evryone is against black people. Alot are but a lot arent. You totally ignore that fact that I say racism DOES exist, but you question me on things you dont want to admit.You an call me whatever you want, but being angry wont solve the problem either sweetheart.

^ I believe earlier in the post you were taking up for black men who cant get a job, take care of their kids ect. You think evryone is against black people. Alot are but a lot arent. You totally ignore that fact that I say racism DOES exist, but you question me on things you dont want to admit.You an call me whatever you want, but being angry wont solve the problem either sweetheart.

Its not ''taking up'' for anyone,its stating facts ''sister''.Its not ok that a black man can follow the law and do his best but a white criminal still gets hired before him.Thats not that black mans fault.

and what didnt i admit to?

WHen did I say that everyone was against blacks?Stereotype?
Youre damn right Im angry that MOST black men in my city dont have jobs.Im angry that white felons get choose over us even if our records are clean.Thats not fair,and anyone who loves black people SHOULD be angry about that.

^ I believe earlier in the post you were taking up for black men who cant get a job, take care of their kids ect.Meanwhile I know a lot of blacks who are successful. You think evryone is against black people. Alot are but a lot arent. You totally ignore that fact that I say racism DOES exist, but you question me on things you dont want to admit.You an call me whatever you want, but being angry wont solve the problem either sweetheart.

You ''know'' alot of blacks that are successful.Arent you black yourself?SUre there are blacks that are successful,I never said there werent.But in Milwaukee at least anyway most black men are not successful.Most do not have jobs.

Ok but earlier in the thread, i said that it is hard being a black man. A black person period. Ive said time and time again that there is still racism and that it will be a while before we are considered "equal".
But showing hate on hate= :nono:. We need to stop bringing ourselves down. Theyll only stop you if you let them.Im sorry that you dont agree with me.

Wow thats a very generalizing and sterotypical statement. Are you saying Young White men in Milwaukee don't wear and do some of those things? Anyway, this is nothing new. Are you critisizing young black men for spending their money to look nice? Do you really need to see people with holes in their pants and no shirts and shoes to make you beleive poverty exists? If so, thats a damn shame. It used to be Zoot Suits in the 40's and 50's , now its hip hop clothing....can't people spend a little money and have a few nice things? What are young black men supposed to be spending their money on anyway? A house?


Wow!

This thread has kinda gotten ugly. Lots of things to talk about. I guess I'll use your post Soulbrotha, for a generalized response.

You're right about young white kids wearing the same stuff as young black kids. I live in smalltown Minnesota and the Norwegian farm boys all wear the sideways caps, the bling, the falling down pants, listen to rap, etc., etc.

About ebonics--I've got relatives in the South (I'm white) who use many of the indicators of ebonics, the "to be" verbs particularly: "We be going". I'm not so sure that's a product of poor education. I've heard black teachers in New Orleans with Masters degrees talk like that in informal settings. Of course, those black teachers can also speak the Queen's English when called for. Everybody talks slang. Just know when it's OK or not.

Your Peter Jennings example--not sure you can base much on the example of one individual. Perhaps a better way of looking at that would be to say that 99.8% of white men who dropped out of HS failed to become anchors, while 99.9% of black men who dropped out of HS failed to become anchors.

Racism in general? Anyone who doesn't think there's still institutional racism around is blind. While I think that great strides have obviously been made since the 60's, I still think that the country isn't particularly committed to eradicating poverty because it's viewed for the most part as a black problem. A racially blind society wouldn't look on it that way. And we're hardly a racially blind society.

At the same time, in general, our society views poverty (and most things) along the lines of -- you get what you deserve. So that's an additional overlay to the racial component. That perhaps explains the white poverty in Eastern Kentucky.

Ok but earlier in the thread, i said that it is hard being a black man. A black person period. Ive said time and time again that there is still racism and that it will be a while before we are considered "equal".
But showing hate on hate= :nono:

when did I show hate towards anyone?all I did was state facts.BTW....


Im not concerned with making white people feel loved,most of them damn sure dont care about how we feel.

^ Im not talking about you , Im making a comment talking about people in general.

^ Im not talking about you , Im making a comment talking about people in general.


Ok ''sister''.

Wow!

This thread has kinda gotten ugly. Lots of things to talk about. I guess I'll use your post Soulbrotha, for a generalized response.

You're right about young white kids wearing the same stuff as young black kids. I live in smalltown Minnesota and the Norwegian farm boys all wear the sideways caps, the bling, the falling down pants, listen to rap, etc., etc.

About ebonics--I've got relatives in the South (I'm white) who use many of the indicators of ebonics, the "to be" verbs particularly: "We be going". I'm not so sure that's a product of poor education. I've heard black teachers in New Orleans with Masters degrees talk like that in informal settings.

Your Peter Jennings example--not sure you can base much on the example of one individual. Perhaps a better way of looking at that would be to say that 99.8% of white men who dropped out of HS failed to become anchors, while 99.9% of black men who dropped out of HS failed to become anchors.

Racism in general? Anyone who doesn't think there's still institutional racism around is blind. While I think that great strides have obviously been made since the 60's, I still think that the country isn't particularly committed to eradicating poverty because it's viewed for the most part as a black problem. A racially blind society wouldn't look on it that way. And we're hardly a racially blind society.

At the same time, in general, our society views poverty (and most things) along the lines of -- you get what you deserve. So that's an additional overlay to the racial component. That perhaps explains the white poverty in Eastern Kentucky.

Poverty will always be with us. You can't eradicate or totally eliminate it. Jesus said that the poor would always be with us.

You know, youre a little kid. I make a comment based on how I feel and now im an Uncle Tom, and Clarence tomas.Pffffft.
Basically what im saying is we need to wake up and smell the coffee because no one else is going to be sorry for us.

Clarence Thomas is a respectable man.

You know, youre a little kid. I make a comment based on how I feel and now im an Uncle Tom, and Clarence tomas.Pffffft.
Basically what im saying is we need to wake up and smell the coffee because no one else is going to be sorry for us.


Im not asking anyone to feel sorry for us.All Im asking for is equality.And we get house slaves like you acting just like the typical white racist.


What is it that you suggest we do?break away from the Union and make our own country?

And you still continue to all me what I am not. Im done with this conversation. Have a good day:wave:

And you still continue to all me what I am not. Im done with this conversation. Have a good day:wave:

You are an idiotic slave.Keep kissing anti cheeseheads ass to show him youre ''not like the others''.

Milwaukee Wisconsin is a slum infested hell hole.

Milwaukee is in the top 5 most drug infested cities
It has a murder rate that is higher than LA and NYC,and equal to Chicago.
It is number 6 on the most impoverished cities list in 2004
One of the highest property crime rates in America.
It is the nation's most segragated city.
It has one of the highest unemployment rates for black men in america(59%).
It has the highest incarciration rate for black men in the nation.

"Milwaukee is a SLUM INFESTED HELL HOLE" stupid statement for an ignorant person.

Milwaukees murder rate is statistic wise equal with Chicago, which varies from 20-25 homicides per 100,000 per year.If Milwaukee were the same size as Chicago it would have roughly the same amount of murders.If milwaukee were the same size as NYC it would have over twice the number of homicides as NYC.

You mention Compton,the Bronx, etc,but Milwaukee has neighborhoods that are just as rough as any.Metcalfe park and the Amani neighborhood are two dangerous areas that come to mind.I find it amusing how Milwaukees Black and White populations seemingly live in two diffrent worlds.

OKay I think with this statement it is clear that you are definitely tryin to make Milwaukee sound a lot worse than it is. You keep bragging almost how Milwaukee is "soo bad" and then you are tryin to compete with rough areas. One guy mentioned rough areas in Chicago, LA and NYC and you were like "oh yea, Milwaukee has areas that are just as rough!" what an idiot. And by the way you are comparin Milwaukee's murder rate with NYC's murder rate. Don't you know NYC has almost the LOWEST murder rate in the nation? Did you know the national average murder rate is 5.4 per 100,000. New York City's murder rate is 7.6 per 100,000. That isn't too bad at all.

waltersworld won't be here for long. Too bad he doesn't realize that he isn't helping his cause at all by making comments like "idiotic house slave".

See ya walter!

Its true.research the subject.You might not see whites only signs,but america is still a very racist country.

I find it very ironic that people like you are constantly screaming out that every white person is racist but you don't notice the MOST racist person in this whole thread..........YOU. Don't you understand? You are blaming EVERY single problem on white people...that makes you ignorant as hell...and a racist.

You sound so stupid when you are replying to these other people. It's 2005 now...I will admit..there is still a lot of racism in the USA but it's not just whites towards blacks. It's EVERY RACE. Whites, Asians, Hispanics, and guess what? Even BLACKS are racist. I've met a lot of black people who are racist towards whites (just like you are) does that mean that I should start blaming all my problems on blacks? As I was sayin, there still is a lot of racism but you are ridiculous if you actually believe that every white person in the world is racist. I see it more and more everyday...especially since I work somewhere that is about 50% black. I see whites and blacks and hispanics and asians gettin along just fine. Whites helpin out blacks and vice versa. So why is it that whenever there is a problem it's always "the white government is tryin to hold us down" oh please...stop flattering yourself. The world doesn't revolve around you and neither does the government's decisions.

You're just another racist, who ironically doesn't see it and instead...thinks EVERYONE else is the racist, and out to get "you and your people".

Poverty will always be with us. You can't eradicate or totally eliminate it. Jesus said that the poor would always be with us.

Many ways to look at that biblical statement.

I believe poverty is a manmade institution, not divinely mandated. In that sense, poverty may well be with us always as society doesn't and hasn't seen fit to address it.

If the US wanted to "eradicate or totally eliminate it", it could be done. There's not the political will to do so.

In that context, your scripture is right.

If the US wanted to "eradicate or totally eliminate it", it could be done. There's not the political will to do so.


Isn't that what some countries tried to do with communism? Hasn't worked yet.

There hasn't been one truly communist nation yet.

There hasn't been one truly communist nation yet.

Because it doesn't work.

I find it very ironic that people like you are constantly screaming out that every white person is racist but you don't notice the MOST racist person in this whole thread..........YOU. Don't you understand? You are blaming EVERY single problem on white people...that makes you ignorant as hell...and a racist.

You sound so stupid when you are replying to these other people. It's 2005 now...I will admit..there is still a lot of racism in the USA but it's not just whites towards blacks. It's EVERY RACE. Whites, Asians, Hispanics, and guess what? Even BLACKS are racist. I've met a lot of black people who are racist towards whites (just like you are) does that mean that I should start blaming all my problems on blacks? As I was sayin, there still is a lot of racism but you are ridiculous if you actually believe that every white person in the world is racist. I see it more and more everyday...especially since I work somewhere that is about 50% black. I see whites and blacks and hispanics and asians gettin along just fine. Whites helpin out blacks and vice versa. So why is it that whenever there is a problem it's always "the white government is tryin to hold us down" oh please...stop flattering yourself. The world doesn't revolve around you and neither does the government's decisions.

You're just another racist, who ironically doesn't see it and instead...thinks EVERYONE else is the racist, and out to get "you and your people".

I was taught that only people with power can be racist. Even if every Black person in this country was racist towards Whites (hypothetical), it would still do nothing to hurt the power status of Whites because Blacks have absolutley no power over Whites. Its not the same the other way around. We've had a White president for the last..well since this country was founded lol Racism was and is widely used to hold certain groups of people back.. Now this doesn't mean Blacks can't be prejudice towards Whites, but Racism and prejudice are two different things.

There is a big difference between hurting someones fealings, and preventing someone from buying a house or living where they want to (among other things).

well, I don't know what "umong" means, but you do bring up a good point.

Isn't that what some countries tried to do with communism? Hasn't worked yet.

Yes, countries have tried to do so with both capitalism and communism. Hasn't worked in either case. Some capitalist countries, notably in Scandinavia, have virtually eradicated poverty through focused efforts.

An aside--I would say that the average Russian today enjoys a lower standard of living than he/she did when the nation was communist.

I was taught that only people with power can be racist. Even if every Black person in this country was racist towards Whites (hypothetical), it would still do nothing to hurt the power status of Whites because Blacks have absolutley no power over Whites. Its not the same the other way around. We've had a White president for the last..well since this country was founded lol Racism was and is widely used to hold certain groups of people back.. Now this doesn't mean Blacks can't be prejudice towards Whites, but Racism and prejudice are two different things.

There is a big difference between hurting someones fealings, and preventing someone from buying a house or living where they want to (among other things).

Soulbrotha, I disagree.

I wouldn't say most white people have "power" as you might define it. Most whites work at jobs where they have little if any say so over their conditions of employment or their overall lives or their relationships to minorities.

I do agree with you to the extent that blacks can be prejudiced. At the same time, while whites can obviously be prejudiced as well, I don't think most whites have much control over the institutional racism--which is the big evil.

Racism has always been used by the powers that be to divide the working and middle-classes, black and white.

Until the majority of whites realize that their interests don't align on the basis of skin color--and blacks as well--I don't think much progress will be made in terms of institutional racism.

Soulbrotha, I disagree.

I wouldn't say most white people have "power" as you might define it. Most whites work at jobs where they have little if any say so over their conditions of employment or their overall lives or their relationships to minorities.

.


You aren't disputing the fact that the most powerful people in this country are White are you? And you can't play the "well White people make up the majority of the U.S. population so of course they are the most powerful," game. Because I've been to South Africa, and the most Powerful people there are White, even though Whites are the minority. So it is possible for a minority Group to have more power than the majority group. Even though Whites in South Africa gained their power through Violence and corruption (apartheid), but that can be said about the history of the United States as well.

Yes, countries have tried to do so with both capitalism and communism. Hasn't worked in either case. Some capitalist countries, notably in Scandinavia, have virtually eradicated poverty through focused efforts.

China.

It is the only country to successfully combine capitalism with communism. However, human rights violations and stealing intelctual property is still a horrible problem there.

And the countries in Scandinavia have been successful doing so because they have very high taxes giving them the ability to persue such focused efforts. It wouldn't happen here in the good ol' USA because Americans hate taxes and spending money on people they feel haven't worked hard enough to improve their own conditions. It may not be the most compassionate view but this is America and we are capitalist.

Wow thats a very generalizing and sterotypical statement. Are you saying Young White men in Milwaukee don't wear and do some of those things? Anyway, this is nothing new. Are you critisizing young black men for spending their money to look nice? Do you really need to see people with holes in their pants and no shirts and shoes to make you beleive poverty exists? If so, thats a damn shame. It used to be Zoot Suits in the 40's and 50's , now its hip hop clothing....can't people spend a little money and have a few nice things? What are young black men supposed to be spending their money on anyway? A house?

its not generalizing. You would be very hard pressed to see a young black man wearing something that isnt expensive. No joke. My point is....if these people are so fuckin' dirt poor then how can they afford such a grand wardrobe. Jewelry, cars, music.....c'mon Soulbrotha wake up you know that much of the ghetto youth has no responsiblity when it comes to money. I live quite comfortably and would never, ever consider spending that kind of money on something that is a necesity.

^it's all about where the priorities are in people's lives. I've driven through some rough neighborhoods here in the Buff, and people have rundown houses but then walk out of the house in expensive clothes and hop in their Hummer.

And the countries in Scandinavia have been successful doing so because they have very high taxes giving them the ability to persue such focused efforts. It wouldn't happen here in the good ol' USA because Americans hate taxes and spending money on people they feel haven't worked hard enough to improve their own conditions.

Not to mention the fact that Scandinavian countries don't have to have huge militaries and don't have the same immigration issues that we have and Norway has oil money coming out it's ass.

The last thing we need are blacks who use the oldest line there is calling people "uncle tom's" and "sellouts" to people who are open and may actually want to make change, just b/c they don't conform and recite the same vitriolic and bitter rhetoric that the same black leaders have been spewing for decades. Again, it's not all blacks fault, but part of it is, but this kind of useless trite being taken as a concensus for the black community is what's wrong and will get blacks nowhere.

^it's all about where the priorities are in people's lives. I've driven through some rough neighborhoods here in the Buff, and people have rundown houses but then walk out of the house in expensive clothes and hop in their Hummer.


Well I LIVE in a low income neighborhood (not just driving thru) and I've never seen what you just described. ITs funny how you are just driving thru and you just happen to see people (more than one) walk out of their house, see their clothes and see them hop into a hummer....damn you must have a slow car. Like broke White people don't buy expensive things or something.

You aren't disputing the fact that the most powerful people in this country are White are you? And you can't play the "well White people make up the majority of the U.S. population so of course they are the most powerful," game. Because I've been to South Africa, and the most Powerful people there are White, even though Whites are the minority. So it is possible for a minority Group to have more power than the majority group. Even though Whites in South Africa gained their power through Violence and corruption (apartheid), but that can be said about the history of the United States as well.

I wasn't playing any kind of game. I thought I was engaged in a dialogue.

Of course "the most powerful people in this country are White", as you say. No doubt about it.

But, that doesn't mean that the vast majority of white people in this country particularly have much power.

As I implied earlier, I think the vast majority of blacks, whites, whatever race, in this country have more in common than they do differences. As well, I think that the power structure in the US--which is white as I said--benefits greatly from accentuating those differences.

Just like an old southern saying--"you may be poor as hell, but at least you're white". Yippee. Who benefited from that mentality?

"Yes, boss, I'll work for a nickel a day more than the black man, cause I'm white, and I'm grateful"---earning of course starvation wages in any case.

China.

It is the only country to successfully combine capitalism with communism. However, human rights violations and stealing intelctual property is still a horrible problem there.

And the countries in Scandinavia have been successful doing so because they have very high taxes giving them the ability to persue such focused efforts. It wouldn't happen here in the good ol' USA because Americans hate taxes and spending money on people they feel haven't worked hard enough to improve their own conditions. It may not be the most compassionate view but this is America and we are capitalist.

China's hardly a country that does much to eradicate poverty. It's basically a totalitarian, capitalist country--a poor Singapore--which uses drastic measures to keep a lid on its rural poor.

Since we're talking about the issue of Race in America, I've made an interesting observation. Over the last several months or so, I've been asking people what percentage of the population of this country they think is black. Most people I asked tended to give an answer between 25% and 40%. The answer is 12%. The reason I started asking was due to a news article a few months back about how a special interest group was upset that only 8% of the guests on a certain morning news show were black. I don't know about everybody else, but I don't think a 4% disparity is something to be upset about, especially when you take into consideration the core demographic that watches that type of show. And sure race shouldn't be an issue when selecting guests on a show, but when the special interest group brings it up in the first place, I just had to point it out.

Discuss...

Ok, so know that we know which cities are more "ghetto" what are we going to do to change it?

nothing. The black community needs to solve the black communities problem. What blacks need to do is stop listening to Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and all that other negative bullshit and start taking a postive aproach to they own future. If Martin Luther King Jr., Fredrick Douglas or any of the other black heroes were to come back to life--they would be very ashamed of what their own people are doing. Like anti-cheeshead said, in the old days of slavery and civil rights movement...the blacks had it much worse, yet stuck together and valued family. Sadly its not like that today. I dont want to generalize, but young black males are not responsible in this sense. Reason? Their own lack of a father--a person who is supposed to teach them how to be a man, support, and provide for his family, not a bunch of street kids or friends. Pregnant mothers who have no marital ties to them are virtually screwed. They get nothing. Even if they get some money from a charitable foundation--its not enough to raise a child, good any how. This is the problem with the black community. Leaders need to shun and make this bullshit unacceptable. Rap music telling young guys to be pimps and not listen to what their bitch has to say. I love Snoop, but rap is not a postive message--and this is what black youth listen to.

Also, young black men need to get a better work ethic. Hmong and Mexicans poured into Milwaukee, poorer and with bad language skills. Yet they manage to find work--whether it be washing dishes, delivery, meat packing, or even civic, decent jobs. They also happen to be a minority. Why are they hired then? Vicente Fox got attacked for saying blacks dont take the jobs that Mexicans will. Its absolutely true. This is a black problem, and I would like to see it resolved by black people. Its the only way too. Money has been poured into the black cause since the Emancipation and it really hasnt done all that much. The oppurtunities for college, work, or even military service are out there--sadly much of the ghetto youth ignores it.

We need to cut this racist and hate b.s. too. I get called a racist for simply stating a black problem and offering advice? If blacks want to fully be considered apart of American society--they need to take criticism without taking offense. Sorry, but suger coating the situation is NOT going to help anything. Like I said, Bill Cosby should be listened to. He dealt with these problems, lost a son to murder and knows what the answer is to solving them. In away..there needs to be more black pride. A proud culture would try to defy the odds stacked against it. Running, blaming, and avoiding wont give any respect to the black community. The cops, white government.etc. Its bullshit. You sell drugs, hit a woman, break the law, the law is going to be on your ass--white or black. It happens more in the black community than the white, its just the truth. We can say all this incarceration stats about Milwaukee....but the fact is that Milwaukee is 40 percent black, maybe closer to 50. Another good chunk of the population is Hispanic. Breaking the law is your decsion, you cant blame it on the police, white people, slavery or any of that bullshit. I tire of black people telling me about slavery. You werent slaves...your slave anscestors would probally be so disapointed in you for not taking advantage of government money, scholarships,etc. My ancestors came poor off the Lusitania, yet I would never, ever blame American society a hundred and 10 years ago for my misfortune.

OKay I think with this statement it is clear that you are definitely tryin to make Milwaukee sound a lot worse than it is. You keep bragging almost how Milwaukee is "soo bad" and then you are tryin to compete with rough areas. One guy mentioned rough areas in Chicago, LA and NYC and you were like "oh yea, Milwaukee has areas that are just as rough!" what an idiot. And by the way you are comparin Milwaukee's murder rate with NYC's murder rate. Don't you know NYC has almost the LOWEST murder rate in the nation? Did you know the national average murder rate is 5.4 per 100,000. New York City's murder rate is 7.6 per 100,000. That isn't too bad at all.

Nobody is bragging you idiot.What kind of nutcase would brag about that type of shit.Milwaukee does have areas that are just as bad as any other city,thats just a fact.what people need to do is stop ignoring it and do something about it.

"Milwaukee is a SLUM INFESTED HELL HOLE" stupid statement for an ignorant person.

Youre from LA,what the fuck do you know about Milwaukee?ANd yes this city is infested with slums,it should be seen as a disease that needs to be gotten rid off.

Youre from LA,what the fuck do you know about Milwaukee?ANd yes this city is infested with slums,it should be seen as a disease that needs to be gotten rid off.

infested? Where do you live anyway?

Youre from LA,what the fuck do you know about Milwaukee?ANd yes this city is infested with slums,it should be seen as a disease that needs to be gotten rid off.

Dude...shut up. You assume just because someone is from one area they know nothin about another area? Ignorance shown on your part once again. For all you know I could have been born and raised IN Milwaukee and only moved here to LA 2 months ago. Yet you see that I live in LA now and assume that I know jackshit about Milwaukee.

You said "Milwaukee is a slum infested hell hole" if I were to ask any other person who lives in Milwaukee I guarantee they would give me a completely different perspective on it. Of course Milwaukee has its "rough" areas...does that make it a "slum infested hell hole"??? Definitely not. Try keepin things in perspective, you "idiot"

Dude...you are stupid. You assume just because someone is from a different area they know nothin about a different area? Ignorance shown on your part once again. For all you know I could have been born and raised IN Milwaukee and only moved here to LA 2 months ago. Yet you see that I live in LA now and assume that I know jackshit about Milwaukee.

You said "Milwaukee is a slum infested hell hole" if I were to ask any other person who lives in Milwaukee I guarantee they would give me a completely different perspective on it. Of course Milwaukee has its "rough" areas...does that make it a "slum infested hell hole"??? Definitely not. Try keepin things in perspective, you "idiot"

:applause:

does this guy even konow what a slum infested hell hole is? Has he heard of places like Rio, Bogota, Jo'burg, Mexico City, Lagos, Jakarta, or some city in India??

^ You apparently don't since neither Bogota or Mexico city are slum infested hell holes...

^ You apparently don't since neither Bogota or Mexico city are slum infested hell holes...

really? Bogota, a city with almost 10,000 homcides in a two year span? Mexico City has some great areas, but much of the city is poor--I wouldnt call it slum infested though.

nothing. The black community needs to solve the black communities problem. .


So i guess by Ghetto the guy who started this thread was saying only black people contribute to a cities "ghettoness?" I never asked what where people going to do about helping the black community. White trailor parks are just as ghetto as the projects. Ask Eminem.

but the fact is that Milwaukee is 40 percent black, maybe closer to 50. Another good chunk of the population is Hispanic

Milwuakee's demographics.... this might settle a few things, I don't know how, but, here it is anyways.

Race population percent of population

White 298,379 50.0


Black or African American 222,933 37.3

American Indian and Alaska native 5,212 0.9

Asian 17,571 2.9


Native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 301 0.1


Some other race 36,428 6.1


Two or more races 16,150 2.7


Hispanic or Latino 71,646 12.0

Milwaukee is almost exactly half white, and almost 40% black. So whites outnumber blacks in the city. Take from that what you will. But there seemed to be some quesiton about it.

So i guess by Ghetto the guy who started this thread was saying only black people contribute to a cities "ghettoness?" I never asked what where people going to do about helping the black community. White trailor parks are just as ghetto as the projects. Ask Eminem.

well lets be honest here..aside from some cities in the Southwest and California...ghettos=black problems.

well lets be honest here..aside from some cities in the Southwest and California...ghettos=black problems.

Haha..wow...

not to mention that Ghetto was derived from a word describing the living conditions of White Jews during WWII.

^^ Yeah, that is true. It's where they put them before taking them to the concentration camps.

I was born in Bogota and I can personally say from experience that the problems the city faces is from guerrilla warfare in the surrounding areas, it may seem hard for many to believe that the city itself is relatively "safe" compared to any other large metropolis... In fact the subculture of gangs that exist here in Chicago is practically non existent in any South American Country, vouching for a "safer" environment overall then most inner cities in the U.S. Of course when you count the constant warfare between paramiltaries and other anti government organizations the death toll, and the constant negative exposure by the media will assure that 98% of Americans view Bogota as a "hell hole."

I digress ... it's apparent black or hispanic equals "Ghetto" to most Americans, they have a hypocrisy of "feeling" for the minorities, but once they move in their back yard it's a completly different story. The victim status needs to be erased in the minorities mindset, people should know either to elevate themselves into a level where they can be accepted into the mainstream society or lose out and be judged.... If you can't beat them join them, no?

Milwaukee is almost exactly half white, and almost 40% black. So whites outnumber blacks in the city. Take from that what you will. But there seemed to be some quesiton about it.


my bad...I knew it was 40-50 percent.

still...thats a pretty high number. Another 24 percent is minorities--Hispanic, Asian, Indians, Iranians, Serbians...etc.

Haha..wow...

not to mention that Ghetto was derived from a word describing the living conditions of White Jews during WWII.


well obvisouly. You know the meaning of ghetto in American culture--dont try to use it against me as a racist remark.

I was born and raised in Bogota and I can personally say from experience that the problems the city faces is from guerrilla warfare in the surrounding areas, it may seem hard for many to believe that the city itself is relatively "safe" compared to any other large metropolis... In fact the subculture of gangs that exist here in Chicago is practically non existent in any South American Country, vouching for a "safer" environment overall then most inner cities in the U.S. Of course when you count the constant warfare between paramiltaries and other anti government organizations the death toll, and the constant negative exposure by the media will assure that 98% of Americans view Bogota as a "hell hole."

I digress ... it's apparent black or hispanic equals "Ghetto" to most Americans, they have a hypocrisy of "feeling" for the minorities, but once they move in their back yard it's a completly different story. The victim status needs to be erased in the minorities mindset, people should know either to elevate themselves into a level where they can be accepted into the mainstream society or lose out and be judged.... If you can't beat them join them, no?

no. Im sure Bogota has charm..but with a homicide rate that high--much of the city has to be a no-go zone.

well obvisouly. You know the meaning of ghetto in American culture--dont try to use it against me as a racist remark.


well like I said when did I say anyone needed to solve the problems of the Black community? Did the person who created this thread say Ghetto=blacks? Did he say Ghetto excludes poor whites? Seems like you were the one top jump the gun on my comment about what are we going to do about this problem.

well like I said when did I say anyone needed to solve the problems of the Black community? Did the person who created this thread say Ghetto=blacks? Did he say Ghetto excludes poor whites? Seems like you were the one top jump the gun on my comment about what are we going to do about this problem.

cmon...dont pull that. You know its implied. Show me a true white, Asian, Middle Eastern ghetto that truely rivals what we are speaking of. Hispanic and Blacks are really the only ones who live in these types of areas we are speaking of.

cmon...dont pull that. You know its implied. Show me a true white, Asian, Middle Eastern ghetto that truely rivals what we are speaking of. .

what are "we" speaking of?

what are "we" speaking of?

we..as in everyone participating in this thread.

obviously not everyone.

A ghetto is an area where people from a specific ethnic background or united in a given culture or religion live as a group, voluntarily or involuntarily, in milder or stricter seclusion. The word historically referred to restricted housing zones where Jews were required to live; however, it now commonly labels any poverty-stricken urban area
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto

obviously not everyone.

mostly....not you though. Your evading the point though. No comment really on that big long post of mine?

Simply, the only logical explanation is that poverty rates correlate the percentage of blacks per capita, however that doesn't mean blacks make up any given number of poor people. Clearly there are many cities that have low black, high white populations that have serious problems. I'd point to many aging suburb immediately ringing city limits. There has been a shocking rise in violent crime in the heavily white suburbs of Washington and Baltimore over this year. Now, we could say, aging, stagnant communities correlate crime/poverty. There are more variables than race, clearly. My being white has nothing to do with my social status; however, my initial will to succeed, my parental upbringing, and my education level have far more relevance to where I stand and could stand. But I'm sick of the pronouns "they" and "we" in the context of whose to blame and who is struggling. Blame gets you no where unless you do something about it. In my view point, we (as in the human race) are in this together. In my calculus class, the sight of 6 blacks and 3 hispanic in a class of about 20 is a good indication that there are indeed minorities diving into higher math (let alone education), that can lead to better paying jobs. The root of a "ghetto" is abyssmal education and dysfunctional homes. I won't throw out the idea that racism is having an effect. It is, indeed, because it's still prevalent today in how people are treated and viewed overall. But what I'm driving at is if people in general were more motivated and had/used more opportunities to succeed, things would improve a great deal. There is no hiding that, but I just wish people would acknowledge it more, you know?

Just labeling these areas "black ghettos" seems to take the blame, or responsiblity, away from the city in which these ghettos reside, and placing it on the shoulders of the people who live within them. Which is very dangerous. IMO

Simply, the only logical explanation is that poverty rates correlate the percentage of blacks per capita, however that doesn't mean blacks make up any given number of poor people. Clearly there are many cities that have low black, high white populations that have serious problems. I'd point to many aging suburb immediately ringing city limits. There has been a shocking rise in violent crime in the heavily white suburbs of Washington and Baltimore over this year. Now, we could say, aging, stagnant communities correlate crime/poverty. There are more variables than race, clearly. My being white has nothing to do with my social status; however, my initial will to succeed, my parental upbringing, and my education level have far more relevance to where I stand and could stand. But I'm sick of the pronouns "they" and "we" in the context of whose to blame and who is struggling. Blame gets you no where unless you do something about it. In my view point, we (as in the human race) are in this together. In my calculus class, the sight of 6 blacks and 3 hispanic in a class of about 20 is a good indication that there are indeed minorities diving into higher math (let alone education), that can lead to better paying jobs. The root of a "ghetto" is abyssmal education and dysfunctional homes. I won't throw out the idea that racism is having an effect. It is, indeed, because it's still prevalent today in how people are treated and viewed overall. But what I'm driving at is if people in general were more motivated and had/used more opportunities to succeed, things would improve a great deal. There is no hiding that, but I just wish people would acknowledge it more, you know?

good post. Thats the key to success--education and work ethic.

And also when you replied to my comment about what are we going to do about it, you didn't even say anything about hispanics you straight off the bat targeted blacks.

Just labeling these areas "black ghettos" seems to take the blame, or responsiblity, away from the city in which these ghettos reside, and placing it on the shoulders of the people who live within them. Which is very dangerous. IMO

well party the blame is on the city, however many of these people have the capabilities to not be there...they just consider them.

Nobody wants to the last hired and first fired because of thier skin color.Nobody wants to be poor,and nobody wants to be in prison.Nobody wants to get stiffer penalties because of thier skin color.

I cant believe so many idiots exist that think black men actually want to be unemployed or locked up.

well party the blame is on the city, however many of these people have the capabilities to not be there...they just consider them.


And what proof do you have of that exactly? Oh it must be the rims and the jordans?

And also when you replied to my comment about what are we going to do about it, you didn't even say anything about hispanics you straight off the bat targeted blacks.

Blacks have the most problems though right? And this whole discussion started when that guy started talking about Milwaukee and its blacks. Surely there are Hispanic issues--yet they arent as prevailent as the African American problems.

How come when whites are in pain and struggling america considers it a national problem?But when its blacks,its a ''black'' problem?

And what proof do you have of that exactly? Oh it must be the rims and the jordans?

thats a starting point. Poor money management, materialism, and the jealously that goes with it are stepping stones to crime and poverty.

Blacks have the most problems though right? And this whole discussion started when that guy started talking about Milwaukee and its blacks. Surely there are Hispanic issues--yet they arent as prevailent as the African American problems.


Actually this was the first post of the thread.

"Just choose from poll with 14 cities including other. You can post there and give much information on city have become most ghetto in US."

Wow.

How come when whites are in pain and struggling america considers it a national problem?But when its blacks,its a ''black'' problem?

Such as? I agree Katrina was an embarrasment for the country.

Actually this was the first post of the thread.

"Just choose from poll with 14 cities including other. You can post there and give much information on city have become most ghetto in US."

Wow.

yeah and? He aimed at Milwaukee and blacks so I responded.

thats a starting point. Poor money management, materialism, and the jealously that goes with it are stepping stones to crime and poverty.

really? I haven't seen any studies that correlate jealousy and poverty lol. I'm suprised Paris Hiltons jealousy of Britney Spears didn't drive her into the gutter.

thats a starting point. Poor money management, materialism, and the jealously that goes with it are stepping stones to crime and poverty.

So are oppression and ignorance of it by the majority.

really? I haven't seen any studies that correlate jealousy and poverty lol. I'm suprised Paris Hiltons jealousy of Britney Spears didn't drive her into the gutter.

Well money from a low pay job at Burger King is a bit different than inherited wealth from the hotel business eh? :)

So are oppression and ignorance of it by the majority.

by the majority? So all white people are evil bastards? That is just as racist as calling as labeling a black man.

Such as? I agree Katrina was an embarrasment for the country.

such as black men having 59% unemployment(twice as bad as the great depression) yet we hear no politicians or anyone even talking about it.

by the majority? So all white people are evil bastards? That is just as racist as calling as labeling a black man.

Most white people dont view blacks as fellow americans.This has always been the case.

Well money from a low pay job at Burger King is a bit different than inherited wealth from the hotel business eh? :)


Yes, but jealosy is present in all walks of life, poor and rich...wtf does it have to do with poverty?

such as black men having 59% unemployment(twice as bad as the great depression) yet we hear no politicians or anyone even talking about.

unemployement is often times a choice. Milwaukee is an manufactring city with many job openings. Miller seems to have a good number of black women working there.

by the majority? So all white people are evil bastards? That is just as racist as calling as labeling a black man.

Again, you're getting racism and prejudice confused.

unemployement is often times a choice. Milwaukee is an manufactring city with many job openings. Miller seems to have a good number of black women working there.

Many of these job openings just arent open to black men.No matter how many times you ignore this,its a fact.

Yes, but jealosy is present in all walks of life, poor and rich...wtf does it have to do with poverty?

Cmon, wanting what others have always leads to problems. You know that the young black crowd is very materialistic and fashion consciece.

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Study shows how deeply black men face discrimination in hiring
Last Updated: Oct. 8, 2003
Opportunities



Tannette Johnson-Elie
E-MAIL | ARCHIVE


Yet another study finds that racial discrimination is alive and well in the hiring process, and it's keeping black men in metro Milwaukee on the unemployment rolls.

The study offers this fictional scenario:

A young, white, male high school graduate with a felony conviction applies in person for entry level jobs as a driver, a dishwasher, a laborer, warehouse worker and production worker that are advertised in the newspaper and admits to employers that he served 18 months in prison for possession of cocaine with intent to sell.

Job Applicants Survey


Graphic/Journal Sentinel
Racial Discrimination



A young black man with similar education, work history and style of presentation, but with no criminal record, applies for the same jobs.

Who do you think is more likely to be called back?

If you picked the white man with the felony conviction, you guessed right.

This study offers evidence that discrimination remains a major factor in the economic lives of black men, and highlights the fear and misunderstanding of black males that permeate the local job market.

Devah Pager, a sociologist at Northwestern University in Evanston, Ill., sent equally matched pairs of testers - two black and two white - to apply for low-skilled jobs at 350 places of employment in the Milwaukee area and found that white ex-offenders were more likely to be called back for an interview than black applicants who had no criminal record.

Students test employers
In this detailed study, bright, articulate, college students posed as job applicants. Even though the results were strikingly close, black men without criminal records were called back only 14% of the time, while whites with criminal records were called back 17% of the time.

The study, titled "The Mark of a Criminal Record," was conducted in Milwaukee between June and December 2001, and the results were released last month.

"It shows there's a great deal of work that has to be done in the education of employers and working on attitudes," says Julia Taylor, president of the Greater Milwaukee Committee. "This type of racial disparity in employment practices really impacts us as a region. It impacts our work force, and it really impacts how the inner-city moves forward."

Pager chose Milwaukee for her experiment because it is representative of most large metropolitan areas in its size, racial demographics and industrial base, she says.

The study's findings would surprise few African-Americans in this city, who know from experience that this kind of discrimination exists in the job market. Research shows that white Americans, however, have been led to think that direct, racial discrimination of this nature has become less of a problem in our society.

It was even surprising to Pager, a young white woman.

"I expected that there would be an effect of race. I thought the effect of a criminal record would swamp other effects," Pager says. "That assumption was clearly wrong. It really suggests that stereotypes and assumptions about black males are very much a factor in hiring decisions."

Facing tougher odds
The study demonstrates the increased odds black male ex-offenders face in finding employment and successfully reintegrating into the economic mainstream, says Lenard Wells, chairman of the Milwaukee Parole Commission and a former Milwaukee police officer.

"It's as if there's a concerted effort to keep black men from getting employment, to keep them oppressed," says Wells, former president of the League of Martin, an organization of black Milwaukee police officers.

"We say we want to reintegrate individuals into the community. We say that we want to do something about unemployment in the black community, yet we want to pretend that it's a criminal record that prevents blacks from getting jobs. It's blatant, undisputed, racism," he says.
Combine the effects of race and a criminal record, and the problem becomes worse. For instance, only 5% of black men with criminal records received callbacks from employers, the study found.

White men without criminal records fared the best in the Milwaukee-area job market, with 34% receiving callbacks from employers.

Keep in mind that it's illegal to discriminate against applicants with criminal records unless the circumstances of the crime correspond closely to the requirements of the job, says Phoebe Weaver Williams, an associate professor of law at Marquette University who specializes in employment discrimination.

"What's frustrating is that, after so many years of having laws in place, the laws haven't corrected the problem," Weaver Williams says.

Clearly, the study's findings demonstrate that a criminal record closes doors on employment.

Still, employers are averse to taking risks on black applicants, whom they perceive to have criminal tendencies, the study says. For example, black testers were more likely to be asked by employers whether they had any convictions, yet none of the white testers were asked about their criminal histories up front.

Image problems
A couple of factors that work against young black men is their portrayal in the media as gangsters, thugs and rappers on the fringes of society, and the fact that more black men are going to prison than college, according to a report by the U.S. Justice Department.

The sad reality is that the majority of those inmates will be released back into communities where they have little opportunity to obtain legitimate work. Research shows that one of the factors for recidivism is employment.

Black felons face a hostile job market in Milwaukee, says Wendell Hruska, associate director of Project Return, a Milwaukee agency that helps felons and people convicted of misdemeanors find employment.

"Discrimination is very much a problem. That's what we've been hearing from our clients," Hruska says. "A lot of people get discouraged. Unfortunately, many of them give up. You really can't blame people when you've been out there for months putting in applications and you hear nothing back."

This research helps us measure the degree of discrimination that exists in the hiring process.

But the question remains: How do we attack a problem that so affects the economic lives of black men in Milwaukee, where many employers still make hiring decisions colored by fear and misunderstanding?





From the Oct. 8, 2003 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

Tannette Johnson-Elie Archive

Boards rarely are truly diverse (10/4/05)
Women losing ground in business (9/27/05)
Hispanics stay close to roots (9/20/05)
Latinas find place in market (9/13/05)
Program matches federal contracts (9/7/05)
Cleaning firm scores sports deals (8/30/05)
Minority businesses on the rise (8/16/05)
Spa owners break stereotypes (8/9/05)
Working women's image changes (8/2/05)
Savings are low for Latinos (7/26/05)
More ...


About Tannette Johnson-Elie

Tannette Johnson-Elie began her career at the former Milwaukee Sentinel in 1989 as a general assignment reporter. One year later, she moved to the federal beat, making her the first African American woman to cover a major beat at the paper. In 1994, she joined the Sentinel's business staff, becoming the first African American woman and the first minority in that department. Her columms aim to send the distinct message that viable business enterprises exist in minority communities and that business owners of color are contributing to the health of the economy.

Contacting Tannette Johnson-Elie

Call Tannette Johnson-Elie at 414-223-5172 or e-mail: telie@journalsentinel.com

You know that the young black crowd is very materialistic and fashion consciece.

?????????????:guns1:

Many of these job openings just arent open to black men.No matter how many times you ignore this,its a fact.

Fuck off. Not open to black men? Just like the bathrooms in the 50s. No job is off limits to anyone. Go contact Milwaukee area employers, then contact your Congressman.

Fuck off. Not open to black men? Just like the bathrooms in the 50s. No job is off limits to anyone. Go contact Milwaukee area employers, then contact your Congressman.

The Presidency is a job.

?????????????:guns1:

yeah. When you need money..crime is easy cash. Why are so many young blacks engaged in the practice of drug dealing?

yeah. When you need money..crime is easy cash. Why are so many young blacks engaged in the practice of drug dealing?

White teens use far more drugs than black teens.
We just get arrested for it more.

The Presidency is a job.

what? If he thinks companies WONT hire a black man at all just for being black--then talk to a lawyer or something. Its against the Constitution.

Fuck off. Not open to black men? Just like the bathrooms in the 50s. No job is off limits to anyone. Go contact Milwaukee area employers, then contact your Congressman.


If this were true then most black men in Milwaukee would be employed.Nobody wants to be broke and unemployed you fucking idiot.

what? If he thinks companies WONT hire a black man at all just for being black--then talk to a lawyer or something. Its against the Constitution.


And thats exactly what happends

White teens use far more drugs than black teens.
We just get arrested for it more.

I agree. White suburbanites dodge the bullet.

what? If he thinks companies WONT hire a black man at all just for being black--then talk to a lawyer or something. Its against the Constitution.

True it is against the constitution.But you see,USA law has always been one sided-whites get away with shit-we dont.It started when we were considered property in the constitution.

If this were true then most black men in Milwaukee would be employed.Nobody wants to be broke and unemployed you fucking idiot.

The high unemployment rate in Milwaukee isn't due to racism. Blame it on the suburbs for luring industry from the city.

The high unemployment rate in Milwaukee isn't due to racism. Blame it on the suburbs for luring industry from the city.

Did you read the article.I dont know why people just dont want to see the truth.If it were strictly ''luring industry'' than white men would have the same staggering rates that black men do.This isnt the case because most white men have jobs in Milwaukee while most black ones dont.

Most white people dont view blacks as fellow americans.This has always been the case.

I can't speak for the rest of the country, but most of the south does.

Since we're talking about the issue of Race in America, I've made an interesting observation. Over the last several months or so, I've been asking people what percentage of the population of this country they think is black. Most people I asked tended to give an answer between 25% and 40%. The answer is 12%. The reason I started asking was due to a news article a few months back about how a special interest group was upset that only 8% of the guests on a certain morning news show were black. I don't know about everybody else, but I don't think a 4% disparity is something to be upset about, especially when you take into consideration the core demographic that watches that type of show. And sure race shouldn't be an issue when selecting guests on a show, but when the special interest group brings it up in the first place, I just had to point it out.

Discuss...

How could anyone think that the percentage of blacks in the U.S. is anywhere between 25% and 40%. The whole western U.S. is virtually black-free, with the exceptions of a few pockets in California (LA & Oakland). The midwest seems to only have larger concentrations in some of its cities (Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, St. Louis). The rural and suburban areas of the midwest are nearly black-free (we're talking less than 5%). The northeast has more blacks than the midwest and the west, but its rural areas are virtually black-free. The cities do have large concentrations of blacks (NYC, Philly, and (Baltimore or Washington:north/south cities)) However, Pittsburgh and Boston have relatively low population percentages of blacks. The suburbs of most of the northeast have few blacks. NYC, Philly and DC do have some blacks in some suburbs, but it is nowhere 25% of the total suburban count of northeastern suburbs. The South is the only region of the country in which the black percentage falls within that range. Approximately 28-30% black for the region. Blacks can be found in the cities, suburbs, and rural areas. The only exception is the Appalachian Mountain areas where slavery was much less practiced due to obvious farming constraints.

I don't know. My sample group is only limited to the Detroit area, but that is usually the response I get. Try it yourself. Obviously ask those who wouldn't know the answer already.

The last thing we need are blacks who use the oldest line there is calling people "uncle tom's" and "sellouts" to people who are open and may actually want to make change, just b/c they don't conform and recite the same vitriolic and bitter rhetoric that the same black leaders have been spewing for decades. Again, it's not all blacks fault, but part of it is, but this kind of useless trite being taken as a concensus for the black community is what's wrong and will get blacks nowhere.
Exactly

I can understand why people would think such high numbers. Aside from the fact that studies show people tend to guess on the high side of anything, if you don't know the numbers for sure, or have not travelled to many different parts of the country, it's easy to get this question wrong. If you live in a city, chances are you're immediate area is between 20-50 percent black, and in many cases much higher. If you live in the suburbs, many people are often under the misconception that cities are all black. For many of them, it's why they're in the suburbs in the first place - the cities were becoming to black for their ancestors. Media is also misrepresentative of the population in many areas. Two of the six major networks are geared to primarily black audiences. That's 33 percent, which is quite a lot for the third biggest population in the country. Also, look at popular music. For the last few years hiphop and rap has been far more successful than rock music and dance music. It just depends on what strikes people's attention. For example, something that I am guilty of myself. I was walking around London the other day and I noticed that there were a lot more Indian people than I would have imagined. Even though whites made up probably 75 percent of everyone I saw, I wasn't saying 'Damn, there's a lot of white people in London.' Now, if someone asked me to say an estimate, I probably wouldn't say Indians make up 40 percents of Londoners, but I'd probably overestimate rather than underestimate.

As for the reasons for unemployment, you can debate this forever, and I would hope that none of you are so ignorant as to assume that you have the answer that has somehow eluded decades of social theory, but there is definitely a correlation, for whatever reason, between being black and being unemployed.

Most white people dont view blacks as fellow americans.This has always been the case.

That is such bullshit. How the hell do you know that MOST whites don't view blacks as "fellow americans". Do you know most whites? Hardly. I would actually be more inclined to say the exact opposite. That MOST whites DO view blacks as "fellow americans" and only a small number of the whole total of whites are racially against blacks.

This thread should be locked.

That is such bullshit. How the hell do you know that MOST whites don't view blacks as "fellow americans". Do you know most whites? Hardly. I would actually be more inclined to say the exact opposite. That MOST whites DO view blacks as "fellow americans" and only a small number of the whole total of whites are racially against blacks.


#1.when we suffer its not viewed as a National problem,its viewed as ''our'' problem.Example:whites have high unemployment its a ''great depression'' and goes down in history books.Blacks have double that rate and it isnt even spoke about,and when it is spoken on,rampant racism is ignored and all the fault is put on black men as if we choose to be unemployed,on the run from the police,broke, or locked up.


#2 we just gained civil rights 40 years ago,and this was not given,many died and went through hell just to get the USA to at least consider us citizens on paper

#3.For most of americas existence we were (legally) viewed as property or second class sub humans

#4 Katrina

This thread should be locked.

No it shouldnt.Youre well trained.

^ Untie your panties from that knot and stop trying to make a smart remark for everything I say.

No it shouldnt.Youre well trained.

get the fuck out, you fuckin' cancer...

walters, believe it or not you've been trained too.

walters, believe it or not you've been trained too.

No I havent.I see this rotten country for what it is.Racist to the core.The moment ALL blacks realize this the better off we will be.Im not the problem here,Im not the one discriminating againt anyone or locking anyone up.

get the fuck out, you fuckin' cancer...

The real cancer is rampant racism,not those who speak upon it.Which is why we have states that blacks make up 5% of the population yet over 50% of the prison.ANd we have cities where half to most of the black male population are unemployed.There are more of us in prison than college now.

^^ And that is white people's fault? It is white peoples fault that those black people are in prison. I'm sorry walter, but you are the biggest fucking moron to ever be seen on SSC

^ Untie your panties from that knot and stop trying to make a smart remark for everything I say.

Untie the white mans leash from your neck you filthy dog.

^^ And that is white people's fault? It is white peoples fault that those black people are in prison. I'm sorry walter, but you are the biggest fucking moron to ever be seen on SSC

Who created a society that has devalued black life since its begining?It just so happens the same minority that were slaves,and legally sub human 40 years ago,just so happen to be the majority in prison?I guess you think its ok for a white felon to have an easier time getting a job than a black man with no record and the same qualifications and work history?Thats nuts,and its destroying our community.Its forcing men to have to sell drugs just to make it day by day.

The biggest mistake the black community ever made was believing that we could intergrate with a people who despise us.We get discriminated in the job force-who controls it?We get discriminated in the justice system-who controls it?

What we should do is realize that the majority of whites will always be racist,and as such,we should seperate from them.

^^ lol, those poor poor drug dealers. Of course, they must be rich if they know you. You are probably their best client. You are soooooo out of your fucking mind it's seriously disturbing. I wouldn't want a felon of ANY race to work for or with me, and it is total bulshit that white felons are more commonly hired than clean record black people. Total bulshit. You are just some whiney little kid who has no life and nothing better to do than start some race revolution over the internet. Get a life you moron.

^^ lol, those poor poor drug dealers. Of course, they must be rich if they know you. You are probably their best client. You are soooooo out of your fucking mind it's seriously disturbing. I wouldn't want a felon of ANY race to work for or with me, and it is total bulshit that white felons are more commonly hired than clean record black people. Total bulshit. You are just some whiney little kid who has no life and nothing better to do than start some race revolution over the internet. Get a life you moron.

I have posted the article several times on here,but you JUST DONT WANT TO BELIEVE IT.You want to act as if racism is something in the past or something so petty that it has little to no effect on the lives of black americans.Im not out of my mind,you are.Because you think its ok for MOST black men to be UNEMPLOYED.You think its ok for a minority to make up the majority in prison.Since you obviously did not read the article I posted several times I have to post it again.


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Original URL: http://www.jsonline.com/bym/Biz2biz/oct03/175535.asp


Study shows how deeply black men face discrimination in hiring
Last Updated: Oct. 8, 2003
Opportunities



Tannette Johnson-Elie
E-MAIL | ARCHIVE


Yet another study finds that racial discrimination is alive and well in the hiring process, and it's keeping black men in metro Milwaukee on the unemployment rolls.

The study offers this fictional scenario:

A young, white, male high school graduate with a felony conviction applies in person for entry level jobs as a driver, a dishwasher, a laborer, warehouse worker and production worker that are advertised in the newspaper and admits to employers that he served 18 months in prison for possession of cocaine with intent to sell.

Job Applicants Survey


Graphic/Journal Sentinel
Racial Discrimination



A young black man with similar education, work history and style of presentation, but with no criminal record, applies for the same jobs.

Who do you think is more likely to be called back?

If you picked the white man with the felony conviction, you guessed right.

This study offers evidence that discrimination remains a major factor in the economic lives of black men, and highlights the fear and misunderstanding of black males that permeate the local job market.
Devah Pager, a sociologist at Northwestern University in Evanston, Ill., sent equally matched pairs of testers - two black and two white - to apply for low-skilled jobs at 350 places of employment in the Milwaukee area and found that white ex-offenders were more likely to be called back for an interview than black applicants who had no criminal record.

Students test employers
In this detailed study, bright, articulate, college students posed as job applicants. Even though the results were strikingly close, black men without criminal records were called back only 14% of the time, while whites with criminal records were called back 17% of the time.
The study, titled "The Mark of a Criminal Record," was conducted in Milwaukee between June and December 2001, and the results were released last month.

"It shows there's a great deal of work that has to be done in the education of employers and working on attitudes," says Julia Taylor, president of the Greater Milwaukee Committee. "This type of racial disparity in employment practices really impacts us as a region. It impacts our work force, and it really impacts how the inner-city moves forward."

Pager chose Milwaukee for her experiment because it is representative of most large metropolitan areas in its size, racial demographics and industrial base, she says.

The study's findings would surprise few African-Americans in this city, who know from experience that this kind of discrimination exists in the job market. Research shows that white Americans, however, have been led to think that direct, racial discrimination of this nature has become less of a problem in our society.
It was even surprising to Pager, a young white woman.

"I expected that there would be an effect of race. I thought the effect of a criminal record would swamp other effects," Pager says. "That assumption was clearly wrong. It really suggests that stereotypes and assumptions about black males are very much a factor in hiring decisions."

Facing tougher odds
The study demonstrates the increased odds black male ex-offenders face in finding employment and successfully reintegrating into the economic mainstream, says Lenard Wells, chairman of the Milwaukee Parole Commission and a former Milwaukee police officer.

"It's as if there's a concerted effort to keep black men from getting employment, to keep them oppressed," says Wells, former president of the League of Martin, an organization of black Milwaukee police officers.

"We say we want to reintegrate individuals into the community. We say that we want to do something about unemployment in the black community, yet we want to pretend that it's a criminal record that prevents blacks from getting jobs. It's blatant, undisputed, racism," he says.Combine the effects of race and a criminal record, and the problem becomes worse. For instance, only 5% of black men with criminal records received callbacks from employers, the study found.

White men without criminal records fared the best in the Milwaukee-area job market, with 34% receiving callbacks from employers.

Keep in mind that it's illegal to discriminate against applicants with criminal records unless the circumstances of the crime correspond closely to the requirements of the job, says Phoebe Weaver Williams, an associate professor of law at Marquette University who specializes in employment discrimination.

"What's frustrating is that, after so many years of having laws in place, the laws haven't corrected the problem," Weaver Williams says.Clearly, the study's findings demonstrate that a criminal record closes doors on employment.

Still, employers are averse to taking risks on black applicants, whom they perceive to have criminal tendencies, the study says. For example, black testers were more likely to be asked by employers whether they had any convictions, yet none of the white testers were asked about their criminal histories up front.

Image problems
A couple of factors that work against young black men is their portrayal in the media as gangsters, thugs and rappers on the fringes of society, and the fact that more black men are going to prison than college, according to a report by the U.S. Justice Department.

The sad reality is that the majority of those inmates will be released back into communities where they have little opportunity to obtain legitimate work. Research shows that one of the factors for recidivism is employment.

Black felons face a hostile job market in Milwaukee, says Wendell Hruska, associate director of Project Return, a Milwaukee agency that helps felons and people convicted of misdemeanors find employment.

"Discrimination is very much a problem. That's what we've been hearing from our clients," Hruska says. "A lot of people get discouraged. Unfortunately, many of them give up. You really can't blame people when you've been out there for months putting in applications and you hear nothing back."

This research helps us measure the degree of discrimination that exists in the hiring process.

But the question remains: How do we attack a problem that so affects the economic lives of black men in Milwaukee, where many employers still make hiring decisions colored by fear and misunderstanding?



From the Oct. 8, 2003 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

Tannette Johnson-Elie Archive

Boards rarely are truly diverse (10/4/05)
Women losing ground in business (9/27/05)
Hispanics stay close to roots (9/20/05)
Latinas find place in market (9/13/05)
Program matches federal contracts (9/7/05)
Cleaning firm scores sports deals (8/30/05)
Minority businesses on the rise (8/16/05)
Spa owners break stereotypes (8/9/05)
Working women's image changes (8/2/05)
Savings are low for Latinos (7/26/05)
More ...


About Tannette Johnson-Elie

Tannette Johnson-Elie began her career at the former Milwaukee Sentinel in 1989 as a general assignment reporter. One year later, she moved to the federal beat, making her the first African American woman to cover a major beat at the paper. In 1994, she joined the Sentinel's business staff, becoming the first African American woman and the first minority in that department. Her columms aim to send the distinct message that viable business enterprises exist in minority communities and that business owners of color are contributing to the health of the economy.

Contacting Tannette Johnson-Elie

Call Tannette Johnson-Elie at 414-223-5172 or e-mail: telie@journalsentinel.com

Walters, you have the extreme sentiment that gets us nowhere. So you think the rich white people that have all the money and 70 percent or so of americans that happen to be white want to give blacks money and help blacks that act as vitriolic and sour as you.

Your separatist idea exemplifies it, you are insane man. Most extremist have some points but they get clouded with all the bullshit like you. You make 10 dumb statements for every one smart statement that you make, and that doesn't win anyone over.

The problem in America is deep, as you know, but as soon as everyone can stop making race an issue, that's very very very difficult, but I'm saying that it's blacks that do it too.

Blacks like you will never be content, there will be a few uprisings of your sentiment here and there, but it's a good thing that with every generation less and less people like you exist.

And you can see a stark contrast between races. Asians are concentrated on getting their kids to go to school and become rich, who gives a shit if they know english as long as they get rich and make whoever they need to make happy happy. It's not always right, but htey have the right idea that this "fighting" and not being the slightest bit productive isn't the rgith way to go. If blacks would prioritize what's important, like raising kids right in a real family regardless of location, all the energy spend being intimidating towards the people that you want to give you money could be spent elsewhere.

West Africans are different too. Look at the Africans that come here from Ghana or Ivory Coast or Sierra Leone or Mali or Senegal, they know what real shit is like, and they're over here and they know it's a blessing. They may be naive to the racism here, but they don't get bogged down about it, b/c their mindset is elsewhere, they have the drive and the passion to live a good life regardless of education or color.

Too many blacks these days are raised in a certain way to be paranoid and "survive". They should be naive to it in a sense and have as normal life as possible. Too many blacks have this anomie about them that feels like things are hopeless which it can seem sometimes. But you take it one step at a time, and not necessarily try to change the system and not have the slightest bit of a vantage point to do so.

You see "sellouts" like Oprah and Bob Johnson, they have become more conservative over the yrs b/c they know that no liberal in office helped them more than a conservative. They did what they did with help, but mostly on their own passion and it's only fair. Blacks need help, but there has to be a large effort shown by the black community to want to be like the rest of americans, which isn't always wrong.

Blacks and Whites look at race too much, and make issues racial when they don't need to be, keeping race an issue perpetuates the tension.

I'm not saying there isn't racism, I'd be lying through my teeth if I said there wasn't, but whites that are racist simply don't respect blacks, not only b/c of their color, but level of civility, blacks should give whites a reason, something other than athletic ability, for respect.

This fighting mentality has to change, the history of racism and culture it has created here in the states is bad, but you don't see anyone other than Blacks taking this tone even if it is the most severe for blacks.

And you have been trained well, your hostility and the fact that you don't have any idea other than to separate or make 75 percent tax or repartations just proves this.

Untie the white mans leash from your neck you filthy dog.
Thanks for the compliment!!!!

#1.when we suffer its not viewed as a National problem,its viewed as ''our'' problem.Example:whites have high unemployment its a ''great depression'' and goes down in history books.Blacks have double that rate and it isnt even spoke about,and when it is spoken on,rampant racism is ignored and all the fault is put on black men as if we choose to be unemployed,on the run from the police,broke, or locked up.


Black poverty had existed since they were brought over in the slave trade days. White poverty had not existed to the point that it existed during the Great Depression. Furthermore, the Great Depression affected everyone.

During the Great Depression, the U.S. was about 90% white. Ignoring the unemployed whites would have been ridiculous, considering they practically made up the bulk of the nation. Furthermore, ignoring the population (which just happened to be 90% white: correlation not causation) would have hurt everyone.

I never said racism isn't a fact, or that it wasn't bad. But for you to claim that every single white person is racist against all black people is fucking crazy and you just need to shut up and stop whining..... and that freaking webpage is talking about WISONSIN. You need to chill out.

Let's face it, with the employment thing, while it is fucked up, we all know that black men should be given a chance, but we all also know that companies do have some reason to be suspicious and more than just color.

I don't like the racist based on biology, but I can understand seeing how some blacks act these days, and it's funny to see jesse jackson, al sharpton, and the other nuts justify looking uncouth and uncivil and somehow turn it on the white people by saying the environment has created it. I read a stat that said a black women named keisha or some other typical weird black women name with eisha in it usually needed an avg. of 8 more yrs experience to be hired over a white male with a generic name with the same stats and similar situation as far as college and growing up.

We know about the prison industrial complex, it is fucked up, and while it's racist, I would like to see it so that Blacks don't put them selves in position to be exploited this way, like good values and that's not books or schools, that's common sense.

It's such a deep problem though, it's almost overwhelming to think how to change it for good.

Walters, you have the extreme sentiment that gets us nowhere. So you think the rich white people that have all the money and 70 percent or so of americans that happen to be white want to give blacks money and help blacks that act as vitriolic and sour as you.

Your separatist idea exemplifies it, you are insane man. Most extremist have some points but they get clouded with all the bullshit like you. You make 10 dumb statements for every one smart statement that you make, and that doesn't win anyone over.
The problem in America is deep, as you know, but as soon as everyone can stop making race an issue, that's very very very difficult, but I'm saying that it's blacks that do it too.

Blacks like you will never be content, there will be a few uprisings of your sentiment here and there, but it's a good thing that with every generation less and less people like you exist.

And you can see a stark contrast between races. Asians are concentrated on getting their kids to go to school and become rich, who gives a shit if they know english as long as they get rich and make whoever they need to make happy happy. It's not always right, but htey have the right idea that this "fighting" and not being the slightest bit productive isn't the rgith way to go. If blacks would prioritize what's important, like raising kids right in a real family regardless of location, all the energy spend being intimidating towards the people that you want to give you money could be spent elsewhere.

West Africans are different too. Look at the Africans that come here from Ghana or Ivory Coast or Sierra Leone or Mali or Senegal, they know what real shit is like, and they're over here and they know it's a blessing. They may be naive to the racism here, but they don't get bogged down about it, b/c their mindset is elsewhere, they have the drive and the passion to live a good life regardless of education or color.

Too many blacks these days are raised in a certain way to be paranoid and "survive". They should be naive to it in a sense and have as normal life as possible. Too many blacks have this anomie about them that feels like things are hopeless which it can seem sometimes. But you take it one step at a time, and not necessarily try to change the system and not have the slightest bit of a vantage point to do so.
You see "sellouts" like Oprah and Bob Johnson, they have become more conservative over the yrs b/c they know that no liberal in office helped them more than a conservative. They did what they did with help, but mostly on their own passion and it's only fair. Blacks need help, but there has to be a large effort shown by the black community to want to be like the rest of americans, which isn't always wrong.

Blacks and Whites look at race too much, and make issues racial when they don't need to be, keeping race an issue perpetuates the tension.

I'm not saying there isn't racism, I'd be lying through my teeth if I said there wasn't, but whites that are racist simply don't respect blacks, not only b/c of their color, but level of civility, blacks should give whites a reason, something other than athletic ability, for respect.
This fighting mentality has to change, the history of racism and culture it has created here in the states is bad, but you don't see anyone other than Blacks taking this tone even if it is the most severe for blacks.

And you have been trained well, your hostility and the fact that you don't have any idea other than to separate or make 75 percent tax or repartations just proves this.


We dont owe whites anything.We have not oppressed them,its the other way around.


WHen have I ever mentioned taxes or repartations?You must have me confused with someone else.

It is NOT OK for most of us to be unemployed.It is NOT OK for a minority to make up the majority in prison.Thats INSANE.Integragtion just wont work,we have 400 years of history to prove that.In order for the black community to thrive we have to help ourselves,spend money with ourselves,and employ ourselves.Because when we depend on whites to do these things for us,things will stay how they are now.We have to seperate because america will never view us as fellow citizens,its an ''us'' and ''them'' mentality.

I never said racism isn't a fact, or that it wasn't bad. But for you to claim that every single white person is racist against all black people is fucking crazy and you just need to shut up and stop whining..... and that freaking webpage is talking about WISONSIN. You need to chill out.

I never said all whites were racist you little coward.I said most,and I have my reasons to believe that.And stats like that are nationwide,its not just wisconsin that is racist.the entire country is.

It seems walter is living in his own little world...

Let's face it, with the employment thing, while it is fucked up, we all know that black men should be given a chance, but we all also know that companies do have some reason to be suspicious and more than just color.

I don't like the racist based on biology, but I can understand seeing how some blacks act these days, and it's funny to see jesse jackson, al sharpton, and the other nuts justify looking uncouth and uncivil and somehow turn it on the white people by saying the environment has created it. I read a stat that said a black women named keisha or some other typical weird black women name with eisha in it usually needed an avg. of 8 more yrs experience to be hired over a white male with a generic name with the same stats and similar situation as far as college and growing up.

We know about the prison industrial complex, it is fucked up, and while it's racist, I would like to see it so that Blacks don't put them selves in position to be exploited this way, like good values and that's not books or schools, that's common sense.

It's such a deep problem though, it's almost overwhelming to think how to change it for good.

so its typical for us to have ''weird'' names?who says they are weird?

and if anyone has acted uncouth in this country its white people.they murdered off most of the natives and brought us here as slaves.Thats ok to you?

I'd just love to see more Blacks try to control what they can control and have the power to control now, and then build from there, get an education, get a job, get married, try to stay married, have a kid, get them an education, etc. Just the common sense stuff, being a responsible, civil person that wants to assimilate towards how america is not looking at it as a white thing. If you do think that's white, then tell me how a black person would rather have it?

Blacks are too much complaining about the biases in the history and english books, it's so irrelevant compared to the other problems that blacks face today, it's important but not nearly as important as the other issues that the community faces today. Math ain't biased, how are you gonna complain about that?

When more and more blacks get in the middle and upperclass which is happening, and it'll take some time, that's the time to "strike" so to speak and use the influence.

Every step forward you have with blacks, idiots like walters that make us take a step back. Too many blacks know the problem exists and know that blacks need to change, but keep making it a problem of the system and DIRECTLY other's faults as opposed to a problem that has institutionalized itself and taking the decades, generations that it will take to fix it.

It is NOT OK for a minority to make up the majority in prison.

Again, you are the dumbest person ever on SSC if you think that it's white people, or anyone for that matters fault, other than their own, that those people are in jail. You are really screwed up and will hopefully be kicked off of this site soon enough.

It seems walter is living in is own little world...

No Im living in the real world.WHere black people are oppressed.

I'd just love to see more Blacks try to control what they can control and have the power to control now, and then build from there, get an education, get a job, get married, try to stay married, have a kid, get them an education, etc. Just the common sense stuff, being a responsible, civil person that wants to assimilate towards how america is not looking at it as a white thing. If you do think that's white, then tell me how a black person would rather have it?

Blacks are too much complaining about the biases in the history and english books, it's so irrelevant compared to the other problems that blacks face today, it's important but not nearly as important as the other issues that the community faces today. Math ain't biased, how are you gonna complain about that?

When more and more blacks get in the middle and upperclass which is happening, and it'll take some time, that's the time to "strike" so to speak and use the influence.

Every step forward you have with blacks, idiots like walters that make us take a step back. Too many blacks know the problem exists and know that blacks need to change, but keep making it a problem of the system and DIRECTLY other's faults as opposed to a problem that has institutionalized itself and taking the decades, generations that it will take to fix it.
Amen!

I'd just love to see more Blacks try to control what they can control and have the power to control now, and then build from there, get an education, get a job, get married, try to stay married, have a kid, get them an education, etc. Just the common sense stuff, being a responsible, civil person that wants to assimilate towards how america is not looking at it as a white thing. If you do think that's white, then tell me how a black person would rather have it?

Blacks are too much complaining about the biases in the history and english books, it's so irrelevant compared to the other problems that blacks face today, it's important but not nearly as important as the other issues that the community faces today. Math ain't biased, how are you gonna complain about that?

When more and more blacks get in the middle and upperclass which is happening, and it'll take some time, that's the time to "strike" so to speak and use the influence.

Every step forward you have with blacks, idiots like walters that make us take a step back. Too many blacks know the problem exists and know that blacks need to change, but keep making it a problem of the system and DIRECTLY other's faults as opposed to a problem that has institutionalized itself and taking the decades, generations that it will take to fix it.

This system has always been messed up and racist.WHat country are you from?

Amen!

agreeing with someone who thinks its typical for us to have weird names.Or that the system is totally fair and its just our fault as to why we get the crappy end of the stick?and youre black?

Walter, it sounds like you want to live in an all black community. So, why don't you move to Africa or Jamaica or Haiti or something. If white people are so evil and won't let you live a good life, why not go where there are no white people and only black people? Sounds like that could solve all of your problems.

agreeing with someone who thinks its typical for us to have weird names.Or that the system is totally fair and its just our fault as to why we get the crappy end of the stick?and youre black?
Why do you care? After all, i am just a "filthy white dog" and an "idiot".

Walter, it sounds like you want to live in an all black community. So, why don't you move to Africa or Jamaica or Haiti or something. If white people are so evil and won't let you live a good life, why not go where there are no white people and only black people? Sounds like that could solve all of your problems.

Im not moving anywhere.I have just as much a right to this country as you do,if not more since I am part Native.

And running to another place wont solve any problem.

All I want is a place where blacks are treated fairly on all levels.ANd since living amongst white americans we have never gotten that treatment,we need to think about ourselves and what we will do to fix this problem,because most whites dont see thier system as part of the problem its just all on ''us''.Its like blaming a slave for being enslaved.(which some whites did do)

"so its typical for us to have ''weird'' names?who says they are weird?

and if anyone has acted uncouth in this country its white people.they murdered off most of the natives and brought us here as slaves.Thats ok to you?"

I purposely added this, I knew this is what you'd say.

It's one of those "you people, what do you mean you people" kinds of things. Haha don't get your panties in a bunch about semantics.

Although, naming someone "Delicious" is just a little weird and I'm not making it up.

And when I said typical, I didn't mean it as blacks typically have weird names, I meant the blacks that DO have weird names, they are pretty typical, and we've all heard a bunch of them. They aren't even african derived names most of the time, they're weird b/c most of the them were made on the spot, nothing wrong with it tho, I don't discriminate, but a lot of people do. It's such a dumb, insignificant thing to discriminate about anyway.

Yes white people murdered off the indians, so why is that relevant today and how can we make things better by thinking of that. Most whites these days don't condone those acts and had nothing to do with that. How can we possibly make things better if everything is the white man's fault, even if it is, how do you suppose we fix things with that frame of mind.

Why must we "get back" at whites, why don't we look at the situation and make a long term effort to fix which all massacres need, not a knee jerk instant reaction but a gradual, long term rectification process.

Thinking about slavery is SO insignifant given the fact that IMO, Blacks have enough rights even w/ the institutionalized racism to get at least somewhat better on a large scale, not being so divided half bitter and half just trying to make a living and not dwelling on it.

The sad part, good and decent hard working blacks get discriminated at the expense of idiots causing a ruckus and adding to the resentment and negative stereotypes.

"so its typical for us to have ''weird'' names?who says they are weird?

and if anyone has acted uncouth in this country its white people.they murdered off most of the natives and brought us here as slaves.Thats ok to you?"

I purposely added this, I knew this is what you'd say.

It's one of those "you people, what do you mean you people" kinds of things. Haha don't get your panties in a bunch about semantics.

Although, naming someone "Delicious" is just a little weird and I'm not making it up.

And when I said typical, I didn't mean it as blacks typically have weird names, I meant the blacks that DO have weird names, they are pretty typical, and we've all heard a bunch of them. They aren't even african derived names most of the time, they're weird b/c most of the them were made on the spot, nothing wrong with it tho, I don't discriminate, but a lot of people do. It's such a dumb, insignificant thing to discriminate about anyway.

Yes white people murdered off the indians, so why is that relevant today and how can we make things better by thinking of that. Most whites these days don't condone those acts and had nothing to do with that. How can we possibly make things better if everything is the white man's fault, even if it is, how do you suppose we fix things with that frame of mind.

Why must we "get back" at whites, why don't we look at the situation and make a long term effort to fix which all massacres need, not a knee jerk instant reaction but a gradual, long term rectification process.

Thinking about slavery is SO insignifant given the fact that IMO, Blacks have enough rights even w/ the institutionalized racism to get at least somewhat better on a large scale, not being so divided half bitter and half just trying to make a living and not dwelling on it.

The sad part, good and decent hard working blacks get discriminated at the expense of idiots causing a ruckus and adding to the resentment and negative stereotypes.

So we are supposed to just except second class status and not say anything about it,for fear that if we do,it will cause even more whites to resent us?LOL

I don't think the system is fair, it's clearly not, but using it as a justification for EVERYTHING that blacks do wrong is bad, and almost takes any justification any black, extreme or not from us. Taking another step back, people focus on the bad not the good.

Everything is the systems fault according to you, right?

I'm a multi-ethnic american with black in me and I'm a very compassionate person, but the extremism is frustrating, it's useless and I know how whites think and I know how blacks think.

HAHA and call me a mutt or a derogatory name like uncle tom or disgrace or say I don't count as a black, I've heard them all and it's the oldest in the book, just makes you look dumb when you get nowhere in life.

And when you miscontrue what I say, then I lose more respect for you. The weird names that black women do have, not weird in a bad way, but not well known, is usually with a -iesha or -quanna or something, it's not bad, but if you don't think it's weird which you probably do, but you're justifying it b/c it's black than it's your bias.

Naming a person Delicious isn't bad, but can you honestly tell me it's not weird?

"so its typical for us to have ''weird'' names?who says they are weird?

and if anyone has acted uncouth in this country its white people.they murdered off most of the natives and brought us here as slaves.Thats ok to you?"

I purposely added this, I knew this is what you'd say.

It's one of those "you people, what do you mean you people" kinds of things. Haha don't get your panties in a bunch about semantics.

Although, naming someone "Delicious" is just a little weird and I'm not making it up.

And when I said typical, I didn't mean it as blacks typically have weird names, I meant the blacks that DO have weird names, they are pretty typical, and we've all heard a bunch of them. They aren't even african derived names most of the time, they're weird b/c most of the them were made on the spot, nothing wrong with it tho, I don't discriminate, but a lot of people do. It's such a dumb, insignificant thing to discriminate about anyway.

Yes white people murdered off the indians, so why is that relevant today and how can we make things better by thinking of that. Most whites these days don't condone those acts and had nothing to do with that. How can we possibly make things better if everything is the white man's fault, even if it is, how do you suppose we fix things with that frame of mind. Why must we "get back" at whites, why don't we look at the situation and make a long term effort to fix which all massacres need, not a knee jerk instant reaction but a gradual, long term rectification process.

Thinking about slavery is SO insignifant given the fact that IMO, Blacks have enough rights even w/ the institutionalized racism to get at least somewhat better on a large scale, not being so divided half bitter and half just trying to make a living and not dwelling on it.

The sad part, good and decent hard working blacks get discriminated at the expense of idiots causing a ruckus and adding to the resentment and negative stereotypes.

so you say that even if it is the white mans fault,we shouldnt even mention it?

I don't think the system is fair, it's clearly not, but using it as a justification for EVERYTHING that blacks do wrong is bad, and almost takes any justification any black, extreme or not from us. Taking another step back, people focus on the bad not the good.

Everything is the systems fault according to you, right?

I'm a multi-ethnic american with black in me and I'm a very compassionate person, but the extremism is frustrating, it's useless and I know how whites think and I know how blacks think.

HAHA and call me a mutt or a derogatory name like uncle tom or disgrace or say I don't count as a black, I've heard them all and it's the oldest in the book, just makes you look dumb when you get nowhere in life.

And when you miscontrue what I say, then I lose more respect for you. The weird names that black women do have, not weird in a bad way, but not well known, is usually with a -iesha or -quanna or something, it's not bad, but if you don't think it's weird which you probably do, but you're justifying it b/c it's black than it's your bias.

Naming a person Delicious isn't bad, but can you honestly tell me it's not weird?

Its weird to hold a person and chains and force them to change thier name to what you want it to be.