Vote for which "L" line is the best to ride on in the CTA system.

I accidentaly forgot to put a poll with it so to any mod reading this:

- RED LINE (95/Dan Ryan to Howard)
- BLUE LINE (O'Hare to Cermak/Forest Park)
- GREEN LINE (Oak Park to Ashland/E 63rd)
- ORANGE LINE (Midway to Loop)
- BROWN LINE (Kimball to Loop)
- PURPLE LINE Local (Howard to Evanston)
- PURPLE LINE Express (Loop to Evanston)
- YELLOW LINE (Howard to Skokie)
- LOOP (all the way around it) :lol:

For the view, the Brown line (known to us old timers as "the ravenswood"), to actually get anywhere, the Blue line as the top speed of the Brown line seems to be about 5mph ;). Of course I'm partial to the Blue line as without it getting home would be a bit rough.

^ I'm partial to the red line, but I probably ride it the most since it is the closest. The red line is great for going to bears games, cubs games, heading up to lincoln park, wrigleyville, heading downtown, etc. I just associate the red line with good times.

You can't beat the view from the Brown. The Red gives you a great view of the north side lakefront neighborhoods.

So, I say put take the best of both and add a little bit of urban suburbia, as well...

so I'm voting for purple. Go U Northwestern!

The blue line from the loop to california on the NWside is the one i frequent the most, and it's reliable compared to the red line going south to downtown. What a slow ass ride, the slow zones and the excessive beeping the train makes can make anyone go nuts. The green line is garbage, no wonder residents complain.

The Green Line was actually one of the better ones for me. The trains seem to be never delayed by sitting imbetween stations. It seemed that between each station the trains hauled. I also like the stations the most out of all the branches, they are all brand new. The trains though appeared to be very old, certainly not worse than the Blue Line, and small.

The Red Line is my favorite for personal reasons. It runs 24hrs a day, most bars I go to are off the red line, school and work is off the red line, it goes right through downtown, and most of my friends live off the red line.

Take the Red Line from Howard, transfer to Brown at Belmont, transfer to Green at Lake, take it to Cottage Grove. Best ride in the city it terms of the view.

I love the absolute linear skyline in front of you when the blue line emerges from Logan Square. It is (understandably due to closeness) much like the similiar effect of driving inbound on the Kennedy.

There is no view on el or ground that offers such an all encompassing view of the downtown skyline, with equal treatment of north and south of the river than coming in from the n.w.

I gotta go with the Brown Line... it hits most of the north-side hot-spots that the Red Line hits while managing to keep providing with you with a view all through downtown. Don't get me wrong - nothing says "city" like a subway tunnel... but, nothing makes me happier than being able to watch everything unfold from a loop-line. Naturally, my only beef with the brown line is that it only services downtown and the northwest side.

I gotta go with the Brown Line... it hits most of the north-side hot-spots that the Red Line hits while managing to keep providing with you with a view all through downtown. Don't get me wrong - nothing says "city" like a subway tunnel... but, nothing makes me happier than being able to watch everything unfold from a loop-line. Naturally, my only beef with the brown line is that it only services downtown and the northwest side.

I ride the Brown Line from Western to Adams for my morning commute. Transfering to the Red at Belmont would shave about 10 minutes off my travel time but I'd rather watch the city slide by then spend half the ride underground. My favorite view of the skyline from the Brown is when you're heading towards the Loop and round the corner just after crossing North Ave. Once you clear the couple public housing projects, there is a large park that offers an amazing, unobstructed view of downtown. The same view is really cooling coming home and the setting sun is reflecting off the buildings.

I like the Blue line, it's handy to get to O'Hare.

Though i do like the views from the brown line, the brown line is by far the most yuppie line in the City because unlike the redline it only serves the northside. My favourite line is the red line because it serves a greater portion of the city and because of that is the most diverse line in opinion. The redline also has a wide variety of architecture seen in its stations unlike the brown for instance where most stations follow the same style. It's also 24 hour service and let's hope it stays that way.

Red line baby. Quickest way to get through downtown on a CTA line, Wrigley, The Cell, Soldiers Field, DePaul, Loyola, Chinatown and much more is serviced by the Red Line. Don't know too much about the Southside, but I'm sure it services some great areas down there too!

Am I the only one who appericates the view from the orange line ???

I am on vacation here (from minneapolis) and I would say blue line. But dont ask me i only rode the brown & blue lines. Nice city by the way.

For the View... The Brown Line. To get where I want or need to go... The Red Line. I use the Red Line much more than any other because the subway entrance is about 40 ft. from my front door, and it takes me to where I need to go. But, if I am not in a hurry, I will take the Brown Line for the view, then change to the Red Line up at Belmont if I need to keelp going north along the lake.
One thing I have alway's liked is how the Brown Line will have ad's for such luxury items as "Coach Bags", while the Red Line is always' advertising Bankruptcy Lawyers and Pregnancy Clinics.

"the brown line is by far the most yuppie line in the City because unlike the redline it only serves the northside."

Boo. Boo to the fucking yuppies who have done this to the Brown Line.

The Brown Line used to be--still is in its extremities--the more working-class, down-to-earth line with quiet residential views and the river...

Ah, how I love the Brown Line. The wonders on Lawrence off Kimball make up for the yuppiness further south, and the fact that I grew up a few blocks from the Francisco stop gives it a sentimental first place. The views of downtown make it serious.

Just hold tighter to the seat when you pass Southport.

There is no line like the Red Line, though, for sheer Chicago density, and Uptown and Rogers Park are some wonderful neighborhoods.

People who say the brown line is all yuppies haven't ridden it to the end. I used to live off the Kedzie stop, and well that area is definately 'changing' it was hardly a bastian of yuppies.

When i say the brown line is "yuppie", i mean that a majority of the riders are in fact yuppies just out of business school with their first jobs in their daddy's law firm on LaSalle street and new apartment in Lincoln square, lincoln park, lakeview, ravenswood. Though these aren't the only people that inhabit the area served by the brownline, yuppies are the ones that crowd the brownline during rush hour and other times and have ultimetly lead to its sucess. I do realize that as you aproach the end of the brownline the neighborhoods served to get less yuppified, but those stations have lower ridership and does not account for a tremendous portion of lines total ridership the way the southport, paulina, diversey, and armitage stops do.

While I am not a big fan of yuppies (mainly because I am not one of them, I just work for them), they do, as a collective, contribute a lot of tax dollars to Mayor Daley's coffers as it were.

As annoying as they may be, I have a respect for them, and believe that they too belong in a certain pecking order of how the population of this city defined. Think about what Chicago would be like if there were no yuppies, Detroit??, Cleveland??, Kansas City??... (These cities being used to make a point, not to slam them.) It is those so called yuppies that come here to go to school, and stay in the city (at least until they have families) and invest in the city as well as pay taxes to the city...

Just my 2 cents worth...

Oh good. It's been at least 3 hours since we've had a yuppie-bashing contest around here. Once again... let's collectively shit on the people who go out and bust their asses every day to earn a good living while we sob for, and donate to, those who choose to buy the newest Air Jordans instead of saving up for one of those oh-so-yuppie condominiums.

Makes total sense to me.

"Oh good. It's been at least 3 hours since we've had a yuppie-bashing contest around here. Once again... let's collectively shit on the people who go out and bust their asses every day to earn a good living while we sob for, and donate to, those who choose to buy the newest Air Jordans instead of saving up for one of those oh-so-yuppie condominiums."

Yeah, cause you just described everyone who makes less than $50,000/year. All of them sit at home, collect welfare, and then buy the latest fashionable clothes.

I don't have a problem with yuppies (although I wouldn't mind their money, damn academia positions just don't cough up the cash). But I do have a problem with being forced to move out of buildings in "up and coming neighborhoods" that have 'gone condo' because there was no way that someone making 35K a year like myself could even think of affording it. I also have a problem when people move into an existing neighborhood and go too far trying to 'improve' it (e.g. complaining about pushcart vendors, etc).

While functionally it is not the best, i have to give historical props to the Green Line. The Lake Street L and the South Side L were the first Rapid Transit lines in Chicago. They are well over 100 years old, making them among the oldest Rapid Transit Lines on the Continent (I am assuming some of the els in Brooklyn and Queens are older). Also, the Green Line is the only line that is elevated over its entire length. It is too bad that the service on the Green Line is Sub-Par compared to other parts of the system, but it is pretty close to other lines (Red and Blue) for its whole length.

As far as the Best overall Line i would probably have to go with the Red Line. It is probably the line that i have used the most in my travels to Chicago.

As a bike commuter I almost never take the train, but whenever I do I take the Cermak branch of the Blue Line from the California stop to downtown, and I really think the veiws from that line are quite unique. I really enjoy seeing the railyards, semi-ruined factories and the Little Village/Pilsen neighborhoods from above.

So, I must vote for the Cermak branch of the Blue line, if for no other reason than because nobody else had voted for it yet.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/thumbnails/blurb/2005-01/16052077.jpg
CTA: 15 Brown Line stations to close during construction

By Jon Hilkevitch
Tribune transportation reporter
Published January 28, 2005, 6:14 PM CST

The Chicago Transit Authority said Friday that higher-than-expected construction costs will require the temporary closing of 15 Brown Line stations when the century-old rail route is overhauled over the next five years.

Also on Friday, the CTA announced plans to acquire as many as 700 new rail cars with aisle-facing seats like those on New York subways.

The Brown Line station closings, which will range from six weekends at several stations to up to a year at others, would begin after September, said CTA spokeswoman Noelle Gaffney. She said the exact staging of the station closings hasn't yet been coordinated.

CTA chairman Carole Brown earlier this month challenged the agency's staff to find other savings to avoid the proposed closings on a staggered basis of all Brown Line stations except the heavily used stops at Belmont, Fullerton and Western Avenues, which will remain open during the entire project.

The CTA originally pledged that all neighborhood stations would stay open during renovation of the 9-mile line, which runs between the Loop and the Northwest Side.

The CTA said elected officials were briefed on the plan, but criticism poured in Friday.

Ald. Gene Schulter (47th) and State Rep. John Fritchey (D-Chicago) said the CTA "dropped the ball" by underestimating bids on the project and failing to consult with local officials until several weeks ago.

"Residents and business owners along the Brown Line who were unequivocally and repeatedly told that there would not be station closings now understandably feel misled," Schulter and Fritchey said in a statement. "The CTA has in fact decided to ignore our input and make our constituents pay the price for their errors."

CTA chairman Brown said that after an independent review, she decided that the temporary closings are necessary to stay within the project's $530 million budget and retain design amenities that include escalators, platform canopies and bicycle racks. The closings are aimed at minimizing the time to rebuild stations to make them accessible, lengthen platforms to accommodate longer trains, complete track work and modernize rail signals.

Brown, who faces a Jan. 31 deadline to report changes in the project to the Federal Transit Administration, said the "long-term benefits far outweigh the short-term inconvenience."

The CTA received construction bids last May that far exceeded the agency's budget for the project. The bidding process was changed and $152 million in cost savings were identified, including cutting $22 million by temporary station closings.

Under the CTA plan, the Armitage, Sedgwick and Chicago Avenue stations will remain open on weekdays, but they will close concurrently for up to six weekends.

Brown Line stations at Damen, Montrose, Irving Park, Addison, Paulina, Southport, Wellington and Diversey will be closed temporarily on weekdays and weekends, although no adjacent stations will be closed at the same time, the CTA said.

Two types of closings will go into effect at the Kimball, Kedzie, Francisco and Rockwell stations. The stations will have temporary closings on weekdays and weekends, with no adjacent stations closed simultaneously. In addition, CTA officials said it will be necessary to concurrently close all four stations for up to 10 weekends.

The CTA announcement that it is going out for bids on new rail cars would include an initial order of 206 rail cars with options that could bring the total purchase to 706 cars.

The new cars would not operate on direct current, as with the present CTA fleet, but on alternating current, which officials said was state of the art, more reliable, more efficient and capable of faster acceleration.

Bids are to be opened this summer, with deliveries beginning in 2008, CTA officials said.

The order would replace aging equipment dating to the late 1960s and the 1970s.

CTA President Frank Kruesi acknowledged the proposed capital expenditure comes at an awkward time, as the cash-strapped agency is pressing the state legislature for more operating funds and is threatening severe service cuts if it does not get them.

Urban transit systems in New York, Boston, London, Paris and Tokyo use seating in which riders face each other across a center aisle, officials said. The CTA recently tested aisle-facing seating on two cars and gathered customer reaction to the arrangement. It allows more standees per car, particularly those carrying backpacks, packages, luggage, strollers and bicycles, officials said.

It also makes possible two wheelchair positions per car compared to one in current cars.

Each of the new cars would have 39 seats, and no seats would be lost in the new configuration, the CTA said.

The rail car purchase would represent the CTA's first acquisition of rapid transit equipment since it bought new cars for the 1993 opening of the Orange Line and the replacement of older cars during the 1990s on the Brown and Yellow lines. It would be financed in part by capital programs of the Federal Transit Administration and Illinois Department of Transportation.

This makes absolutely no sense to me seeing as the CTA is suposedly in a budget crisis--
http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/thumbnails/poll/2004-05/12664986.jpg

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2004-05/12679519.jpg
Taking sides: The Chicago Transit Authority tested rider reaction to two cars with more side-facing seats on the Brown Line.
(Tribune photo by Jim Prisching)
January 28, 2005
CTA seeks NY-style subway cars

Tribune staff report
Published January 28, 2005, 11:53 AM CST

Emulating its bigger counterpart out east, the Chicago Transit Authority today announced plans to acquire as many as 700 new railcars with aisle-facing seats like those on New York subways.

The request for proposals is for an initial order of 206 rail cars with options that could bring the total purchase to 706 cars.

The estimate cost of the acquisition was not immediately available.

Bids are to be opened this summer, with deliveries beginning in 2008, according to a news release issued this morning by the CTA. The order would replace aging equipment dating to the late 1960s and the 1970s.

CTA President Frank Kruesi acknowledged the proposed capital expenditure comes at an awkward time, as the cash-strapped agency is pressing the state legislature for more operating funds and is threatening severe service cuts if it does not get them.

"Though planning a new rail car purchase may at first appear contradictory, as we are faced with possible service cuts and layoffs, we cannot be short-sighted," Kruesi said in a prepared statement. "Improving our infrastructure is not a process to which we can commit and then abandon."

CTA Board Chairwoman Carole Brown said, "We must continue to use our capital dollars to invest in our system so we don't lose the momentum we've gained over the past decade."

Urban transit systems in New York, Boston, London, Paris and Tokyo use seating in which riders face each other across a center aisle, officials said. The CTA recently tested aisle-facing seating on two cars and gathered customer reaction to the arrangement.

It allows more standees per car, particularly those carrying backpacks, packages, luggage, strollers and bicycles, officials said. It also makes possible two wheelchair positions per car compared to one in current cars.

Each of the new cars would have 39 seats, and no seats would be lost in the new configuration, the CTA said.

Also, the new cars would not operate on direct current, as with the present CTA fleet, but on alternating current, which officials said was state of the art, more reliable, more efficient and capable of faster acceleration.

The purchase would represent the CTA's first acquisition of rapid transit equipment since it bought new cars for the fall 1993 opening of the Orange Line and the replacement of older cars during the 1990s on the Brown and Yellow lines.

It would be financed in part by capital programs of the Federal Transit Administration and Illinois Department of Transportation.


Worry about this bullshit later. Keep the damn trains and buses running first...

People who say the brown line is all yuppies haven't ridden it to the end. I used to live off the Kedzie stop, and well that area is definately 'changing' it was hardly a bastian of yuppies.

Me, too. The family has a 2 flat and storefront south of Wilson on Kedzie.
My father was born there upstairs in 1920. My grandparents lived there throughout their marriage and my great grandfather built the place
just as the Ravenswood was being extended in 1905. I live in Edgewater now.
I needed some space for my family, the bungalows are too small there.

The area has been every imaginable ethnic group, starting with the English,
later German, and Jewish people came up from the West side in the 1920s and 1930s. Later the Greeks came in, Poles, Koreans, Jordanian and Hispanics and Thai (and I probably left out some). Now come the Yuppies, they just put in a Starbucks at Wilson and Kedzie.

Former gang infested buildings are going condo and people who "hung on" are making a lot of money. In real estate, it is one of Chicago's "hottest" neighborhoods. Buy anywhere along a mass transit line on the north side, you'll do well.

But Albany Park doesn't have cigar stores yet, good places for falaffel outnumber health food stores, and "bellying up to the bar" in still in fashion....
for now.

But it is only a matter of time....... :(

Isn't it obvious??

I like staying above ground and seeing the skyline at the Paulina crossover at the Metra tracks. I like going around Church Bend.

The Loop el is cool. And I enjoy getting off at Adams and wondering how the eL looked back in the 1920s!

Here is my old station: (It burnt down in the 1970s)

http://kacm.com/kedzie5.GIF :cheers:

While functionally it is not the best, i have to give historical props to the Green Line. The Lake Street L and the South Side L were the first Rapid Transit lines in Chicago. They are well over 100 years old, making them among the oldest Rapid Transit Lines on the Continent (I am assuming some of the els in Brooklyn and Queens are older). Also, the Green Line is the only line that is elevated over its entire length. It is too bad that the service on the Green Line is Sub-Par compared to other parts of the system, but it is pretty close to other lines (Red and Blue) for its whole length.

As far as the Best overall Line i would probably have to go with the Red Line. It is probably the line that i have used the most in my travels to Chicago.


Nope. The South Side Elevated RR is older than any eL in Brooklyn or Queens.
The leg down 63rd originally terminated at the World Columbian Exposition
in 1893. The leg shooting north from 63rd was completed a bit later.

To the observant rider, you'll notice that portions of the trackage seems to have "hills and valleys" Many stations are gone now, but the lines were originally steam. The hill "up" to a station was used to slow down a steam train, the hill down was used to accelerate, for the opposite reason.

At Indiana, the line branched off to the Stockyard Loop, an unknown fact is that Chicago at one time had TWO Loop eLs!

(It is amazing how bored a person can be riding to and from the U of C...and how much useless trivia you pick up!)
:cheers:

I'd hate to see NYC rapid transit trains used by CTA. They're fine for a city whose RT is mostly subway...and absurd for one that is mostly elevated. Hell, we have a view. Why ruin it?

Me, too. The family has a 2 flat and storefront south of Wilson on Kedzie.
My father was born there upstairs in 1920. My grandparents lived there throughout their marriage and my great grandfather built the place
just as the Ravenswood was being extended in 1905. I live in Edgewater now.
I needed some space for my family, the bungalows are too small there.

The area has been every imaginable ethnic group, starting with the English,
later German, and Jewish people came up from the West side in the 1920s and 1930s. Later the Greeks came in, Poles, Koreans, Jordanian and Hispanics and Thai (and I probably left out some). Now come the Yuppies, they just put in a Starbucks at Wilson and Kedzie.

Former gang infested buildings are going condo and people who "hung on" are making a lot of money. In real estate, it is one of Chicago's "hottest" neighborhoods. Buy anywhere along a mass transit line on the north side, you'll do well.

But Albany Park doesn't have cigar stores yet, good places for falaffel outnumber health food stores, and "bellying up to the bar" in still in fashion....
for now.

But it is only a matter of time....... :(

Ravenswood El, how extensive is the redevelopment in Albany Park and do you really think an area so far north and so far inland can get that "hot"?

I know Jeff Park is getting some high priced new construction, but it never experienced the downward trend that AP did.

Is the desirability being fueled by access to the Brown Line? As far as desirablility, I'd say the housing stock in AP is far below areas like Hollywood Pk, Peterson Pk, Ravenswood Manor. What is the attraction?

Albany Park
Robert Gecht, the Albany Bank (now Albank) executive who backed Mason and another developer when they began converting neighborhood buildings into condominiums in the early ‘90s, also remembers naysayers doubting the wisdom of these investments: “When we did (the first conversion), the reaction was, ‘You’re nuts. You’re crazy to be doing it. Nobody will ever buy.’ Our feeling was if we didn’t invest in our own community and try to increase the housing options in the area, then we really would be crazy.”




Time has vindicated both Gecht and Mason as Albany Park has rebounded spectacularly from its moribund late-‘80s state and evolved into another of Chicago’s “hot” neighborhoods. Property values are on the rise and developers are fighting over the types of buildings Mason was landing for a song just a few years ago.


“There has been a sea change in the perception of the community,” says Joel Bookman, a longtime resident and community redevelopment consultant. “Five or six years ago, people would say they wanted a condo anywhere but Albany Park. Now, it’s a desirable place they want to be. People are moving here because they want to be in a neighborhood that’s not only safe and interesting but also diverse, where they can comfortably experience other cultures. This is the way cities are supposed to be. Albany Park may be the pre-eminent example of that in the country.”


The North River Commission, a non-profit organization that works in Albany Park and the neighboring communities of North Park and Irving Park, reports that more than 40 percent of residents in the area are foreign-born, and students at Roosevelt High School, 3436 W. Wilson, speak more than 40 languages.


“Whether you are a Cambodian coming over and looking for a place to live where you can work nearby or a young professional who has been priced out of Lakeview but still wants an urban experience, there’s something for everyone,” Bookman says.


Though they shared a belief in the area, little did Mason or Gecht know that Albany Park would be swept up in a redevelopment explosion that has seen the relatively rapid transformation of many once-blighted and “iffy” neighborhoods.
http://www.loftliving.com/NHNew/Neighborhoods/NorthwestSideAugust04/NorthwestSide_Albany_Aug2004.htm

Ravenswood El, how extensive is the redevelopment in Albany Park and do you really think an area so far north and so far inland can get that "hot"?

I know Jeff Park is getting some high priced new construction, but it never experienced the downward trend that AP did.

Is the desirability being fueled by access to the Brown Line? As far as desirablility, I'd say the housing stock in AP is far below areas like Hollywood Pk, Peterson Pk, Ravenswood Manor. What is the attraction?

I don't know how long you've been exposed to the Chicago market, but your arguments seem to be rather near-sighted. All of the same arguments have been made about other now booming areas.

And for starters, can you argue that the housing stock in Uptown is (or ever was) better?
Yet, a quick perusal of the listing tell you that Uptown righ now is a bit pricey. Parts of it are still "dicey", yet a single family home will run $750k,

My family has been in the building business in Chi for over 120 years, so we've seen neighborhoods die, come back, die again and then some. Remember when DePaul wanted to move away? Neighborhood was "too bad". Wicker Park ? "Uninhabitable".

Those row houses (east of the el) on Fullerton used to go for < 50k...and people thought buyers were crazy for picking them, up at the time. 20 years ago bucktown was conbsidered "undesirable".

Albany Park has always been sort of a "gateway". But it has the advantage of being along a mass trasit line. and yes, the proximilty to a mass transit line is definietly the ticket.
And like all neighborhoods that have "taken off", ist is cheaper than adjacent areas along the mass transit line.

In options we say it has a "high gamma". (A high rate of change of a rate of change, probable to go "in the money").

I'd hate to see NYC rapid transit trains used by CTA. They're fine for a city whose RT is mostly subway...and absurd for one that is mostly elevated. Hell, we have a view. Why ruin it?

I agree, I love our transverse seating. No matter how crowded the train gets, If I have that window seat, I still get to submerse myself in the pleasure of watching urban splender pass by outside the window. The "boweling alley" seating on crowded trains will offer the view of crotches and waists of standing riders (which can be a good or bad thing).

"The "boweling alley" seating on crowded trains will offer the view of crotches and waists of standing riders (which can be a good or bad thing)."

It's a good thing on the Red and Brown lines between 9-12 on Friday and Saturday nights; other than that, not so much.

The "boweling alley" seating on crowded trains will offer the view of crotches and waists of standing riders (which can be a good or bad thing).

That's hilarious...

I'm within 3 blocks of both the Fullerton and Armitage stations, so I have some options in terms of which line to take. Typically I avoid the Fullerton station and take the Brown Line at Armitage because Fullerton is a lot more hectic and crowded. There are many days when, on my way to class downtown, I get up to the platform at Armitage and not one person is up there, which is nice because I get the heat lamps all to myself.

Back when I lived closer to the Fullerton station, I would just take whichever train (Brown or Red) came first. The Brown Line is like the peaches and cream of the CTA system. It's relatively safe and clean, always stays above ground, is somewhat less crowded, and provides great views of downtown. My first El ride ever was on the Brown Line, and I remember winding around just after the Sedgwick station and having the full scope of downtown sweep out and slap me across the face. I'll never forget it. The Red Line is a bit grittier, of course, because it goes underground for a while, isn't as clean or safe, and doesn't offer as much scenery. But it's much faster and cuts through a much bigger section of the city than the Brown Line, or at least through parts of the city that I tend to visit more often--north *and* south. For speed, though, I don't think the Blue Line can be beat. I take it from downtown to Damen a lot, and it just cruises.

I'd hate to see NYC rapid transit trains used by CTA. They're fine for a city whose RT is mostly subway...and absurd for one that is mostly elevated. Hell, we have a view. Why ruin it?


First of all, NYC Metra cars differ in length from CTA el cars. I beleive the difference is 60 versus 90 ft. In the old days during the times of the 3rd Avenue
el in Manhattan, el cars had similar lengths to Chicago.

Secondly, the only thing being discussed is the changing of seating configuration of the el cars. This is being done to increase standee (and overall) capacity. The Ravenswood (before the impending reconstruction) is limited to 6 car trains.

So, anybody who has been on the Ravenswood during rush hour knows that
these are (by Chicago standards) pretty crowded. The first thing they did was to have the Evanston Express trains stop at intermittant stops (Sedgewick, etc). But now (before the platforms are extended in length), the seating configuration is a temporary solution.

Now you have to go back in history quite a ways, but the old wooden tailer cars on the el in the 1920s (before the 4000s) had a seating configuration like
that which is proposed. I think one of these trailer cars is at the Illinois Railway museum in Union, IL.

(Yes, I am an el nerd!)

:cheers:

Something to consider.....

When taking the Brown Line south from Armitage, have you ever noticed two outer tracks ?? These were last used in 1963 by the Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee.

Given the proposals to reinstall some of the stations between Chicago Ave and Sedgewick (Grand Ave, Oak St, etc), will the CTA AGAIN end up rebuilding something it is intermittently tearing down?


Another example of this is the proposal to extend the Yellow Line (Swift) up to County Line Rd (Lake Ct) in Northbrook on the right of way of the North Shore. The CTA took ownership in 1963 and dismantled it~!

(Same with the Chicago Aurora and Elgin in 1956)

http://northshoreline.com/harms.jpg

Something to consider.....

When taking the Brown Line south from Armitage, have you ever noticed two outer tracks ?? These were last used in 1963 by the Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee.


Thanks I have always wondered about those tracks. What exactly was the Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee train?

The Chicago, North Shore and Milwaukee was an interurban connecting Chicago's Loop to Milwaukee. There were two lines, the original lakeshore route, which passed through the northshore communities, and the Skokie Valley line (now the yellow line is on part of it), which ran west of the main line, and bypassed the towns along the lake.

Thanks I have always wondered about those tracks. What exactly was the Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee train?

Most people don't realize that the el was built by private companies, most separate. The Loop el was completed in 1896 and was a terminus for the many "branch lines", all of which were separate RRs. The South Side Elevated RR, Lake St. (West Side), etc. Before the el, theses terminated on 'stubs". One such ran down Wacker from Lake St. Another was north of the Merchandise Mart. The south 'stub' ran up State to Van Buren.
Therse were steam trains, electrified mostly just after the turn of the century. The company that was built as a "terminus" the the el lines was called "The Union Loop Elevated RR Corp".

Now remember that there were several market crashes di=uring this time, notabluy 1908 and 1912! And then WWI.

In the 1920s, a man named Samuel Insull consolidated the el lines into one under "The Chicago Rapid Transit". He also managed to acquire several other electric RRs, notably the South Shore Line, the North Shore Line and the Chicago Auroura and Elgin. These were (for their time) fine high speed electric RRrs and reached speeds of 80 mph plus. Insull, (Thomas Edison's former Secretarey (as in corporate office)) also acquired the local entity of Commonwealth Edison and Northen Illinois Coke and Gas (later People's Gas).

Brilliantly, Insull wanted to find ways for his regional electric RRs to get into the loop
without having to purchase rights of way. For the South Shore, he leased trackage from the Illinois Central (that relationship exists to this day). For the North Shore Line (which ran from Chicago to Milwaukee). he did this internally with the CRT, enabling the North Shore to enter the Loop via the el lines. So the Skokie Swift (express) and the Evanston lines (local) ran parallel (south from Lake Bluff)and joined at Howard Street. The North Shore Line leased the eL from Howard down to Roosevelt on the eL, and at one time the trains ran as far south as Jackson park.

Most people also don';t know that the el at one time had active freight activity...evidence acn still be seen up at Wilson Ave.

On the West Side, The Chicago Aurora and Elgin ran on the trackage rights paralleling what is now the Eisenhower Expressway. And to this day, the Prairie Bike Trail is what remains of that RR. The CA&E ran on the Garfield Park Line west from the Loop to Westchester and on to Batavia. It ran a third rail operation, and was known as "The Great Third Rail".

Insull completed this consolidation in 1926. But his demise dids not happen until 1933 and he died penniless in a Paris subway station in 1938. Hundreds of thousands of Chicagoans were left with worthless Insull stock, once thought to be as solid as a money market fund. The utility's demise took down banks. The Lyric Opera House looks like a big chair from the rear, it was built by Insull. It was also known as "Insull's Throne". He had a tiff with the mayor at the time, Big Bill Thompson. This is why the chair's "back" faces city hall, it was said.

What remained was consolidated into three separate RRs and lease agreements respectively with the CRT and the Illinois Central. These were taken over by the CTA in 1947, the surviving publicly owned entity.

In the late 1950s. the Eisenhower (Congress) was built and the planning did not include the continuation of the CA&E trackage rights. Note however, that as you enter the subway from the west, there are FOUR portals to the tunnel! Also, later, the CTA raised rents significantly on the North Shore, driving it further towards bankruptcy. On jan. 21, 1963 the North Shore ran its last high speed train to and from Milwaukee via the el.

Imagine, being able to take a high speed, at 80 mph, sit at the bar car or diner....having boarded at Adams and Wabash or Wilson Ave. or Howard...and be in Milwaukee 1.25 hours later???

Were these people short-sighted...or what?? So that is what the outer tracks, as well as the Skokie Swift,. as well as the Green bay Bike Trail, as well as the prairie path were all used for at one time!
(BTW, I am NOT 150 years old! I was not born when this went out of business...but I listened to all of my old time Chcago relatives and did a little reading!)

http://northshoreline.com/diner.html

http://northshoreline.com/linerloop.jpg

http://northshoreline.com/chic.jpg

http://northshoreline.com/demps.jpg

Only took orange line :(

Thanks for the history lesson, Ravenswood el. I have frequently thought how wonderful it would be to have the North Shore line still in operation! *sigh*

no wait for the veiw the blue line. lol just kiding.

Ravenswood el, thanks for the information. I find the history of the 'el' fascinating. So feel free anytime to elaborate with as much detail as you fancy.

One more question, with the four Portals off the Eisenhower you mentioned, is that were the Blue Line heads towards the Loop from UIC? If so, were those tunnels ever used or when were they stopped from being used?

Phil, if I remember correctly, proposals initially called for express service to the west side via what is now the Forest Park branch of the blue line. There's enough ROW in the median of the Ike for four tracks at least to the Medical Center, if not all the way to Forest Park. That's why there are four tunnel ports... for four tracks.

This option is still plausible today if a blue-line underground Loop is created with a Clinton Street Subway to serve the proposed new West Loop Transportation Center. Traffic on the blue line would necessitate express service both toward the west and toward O'hare, the latter of which is apparently already in the planning stages.

Speaking of express service to O'hare and Midway, everyone mentions the probable Block 37 arrangement. However, there is also another proposal to run express trains to both airports from the proposed new West Loop Transportation Center along Clinton Street. The way these trains would get to Midway would be by express tracks to the Medical Center, then via the proposed second phase of the Circle Line which would be el tracks connecting the 54 Cermak Branch of the blue line to the Orange Line around Ashland. Routing express trains to Midway via an expanded blue line and part of the proposed circle line is also being considered for Block 37 in addition to the favored routing using existing infrastructure in the State Street Subway and the Orange Line.

With the inevitably continuing expansion of the Loop central business district across the Chicago River and into the West Loop, it would be smart for Chicago and the powers that be to consider having two downtown termini for express airport service. Dearborn and Clinton Streets are perfect for this as, assuming these proposals go through, they'd be the east and west legs of a new underground Loop for downtown and are 8 distance-blocks from each other. Block 37 would be heavily favored by people east of Franklin Street and the WLTC would greatly serve those to the west, in the West Loop and the Wacker Drive corridor.

The 4 terminals around downtown were used long after the Loop was completed. Into the post-war era for rush hour loads, Interurbans, special events etc. The CA&E double track mainline ran to Wheaton and split there to Aurora and Elgin. The Batavia line was a branch off the Aurora route. The CTA\City of Chicago never owned the 2 interurban routes that came in on the L. The city and state both balked at subsidizing\buying the lines and the owners ended up asset stripping the companies. Plus all those new expressways would end the need for suburban transit service.

DuPage County's population today is approching one million and is in desperate need of transit options. The cost for a heavy transit line through the heart of the county would be astronomical.