View Full Version : TTC orders diesel-electric buses-DICK LOEK/TORONTO STAR- Jan 20/05


Are Be
January 21st, 2005, 04:44 AM
Jan. 20, 2005. 01:00 AM
DICK LOEK/TORONTO STAR
Executives at Orion Bus Industries of Mississauga inspect TTC buses coming off the production line. The company, a unit of Daimler-Chrysler, a leading contender for the transit commission’s planned order of 100 to 150 hybrid buses.
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TTC orders diesel-electric buses
Vehicles use 20% to 35% less fuel for a $160,000 saving
Greenhouse gas emissions, air pollution also greatly reduced

TYLER HAMILTON
TECHNOLOGY REPORTER

The Toronto Transit Commission is preparing to spend up to $110 million on one of the largest single hybrid-electric bus purchases in North America, part of the city's continuing efforts to "green" its fleets.

The leading contender for the business is Mississauga-based Orion Bus Industries Ltd., a division of DaimlerChrysler AG, which has reserved space on its assembly line in anticipation of a 100- to 150-bus order — a boon for the company's Mississauga factory and a sign of increased demand for hybrid transit.

"Any order like that will be in the top two or three (in North America)," said Mark Brager, vice-president of sales at Orion Bus. "We're seeing the fruits of our labours beginning to benefit our customers."

New York City, which operates North America's largest bus fleet, has 125 Orion hybrid buses already in service and 200 more being built. Seattle has the largest in-service hybrid fleet in the world, with 210 buses manufactured by Winnipeg-based New Flyer.

At a cost of about $750,000 for each diesel-electric hybrid bus, the TTC order will range from $75 million to $112.5 million. A standard diesel bus, by comparison, costs between $450,000 and $500,000.

"The city has an incentive to buy hybrids because the federal government provides funding of one-third toward alternative fuel and hybrid vehicles," said Bob Boutilier, deputy general manager of the TTC. "In the end, it comes very close to costing the city less than actually buying a diesel bus."

Hybrid buses, similar to hybrid cars such as the Toyota Prius, use a battery-powered electric system to assist a scaled-down diesel engine. The diesel engine charges the battery, as does energy captured from the constant braking of stop-and-go city driving.

The Orion VII buses, which contain a hybrid electric propulsion system from BAE Systems, boast less than half the greenhouse gas emissions of a pure-diesel bus and a dramatic lowering of nitrogen oxides and particulate matter.

They also offer a gain in fuel efficiency of 20 per cent to 35 per cent, leading to as much as $160,000 in fuel savings over the life of a single bus, said Boutilier.

B.C. Transit is expected to put six New Flyer hybrid buses in service this spring, and Ottawa's transit authority has expressed interest in buying 30 hybrid buses for delivery in 2007.

"When we place this order, we'll be the only one to have a (substantial) hybrid fleet in Canada," said Boutilier, adding that the hybrids — which would represent 7 to 10 per cent of the TTC's 1,500-bus fleet — would complement a biodiesel strategy already in place and the introduction of low-sulphur diesel.

Last September, the TTC began fuelling 180 of its diesel buses with cleaner-burning biodiesel fuel, which is renewable.

The commission's intention is to order the hybrid buses this spring and get them into service in 2006. But it's not a done deal. The TTC must still meet on Feb. 9 to confirm its intention to buy from Orion, after which it must go to City Council in March to get the plan approved.

Time is of the essence. "If we don't make a decision by a certain date we lose our position in the assembly line," said Boutilier.

Manufacturing begins at Orion's Mississauga factory, where the chassis and body of the buses are assembled. That structure is then shipped to Oriskany, N.Y., where seats, engines, the electrical propulsion systems and transmissions are installed.

Brager said the final assembly is done in New York because transit authorities there get significant subsidies from the federal government, which requires that the vehicles be finished on U.S. soil.

There has been considerable controversy over the true efficiency gains from hybrid buses. Seattle transit officials recently said that their New Flyer buses haven't come close to achieving the 40-per-cent efficiency gains first touted.

New York has claimed 30 to 35 per cent efficiency improvements from its Orion buses. Boutilier hinted that 25 per cent could be enough to bring even more hybrids into the TTC's fleet.

"Unless we have some really bad failures or problems in the first year, there's going to be an expectation for us to buy more hybrids going forward."

Additional articles by Tyler Hamilton

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Mr Man
January 21st, 2005, 04:49 AM
Why order these expensive expensive buses when they have no money. No wonder this city is facing so many problems.

DrJoe
January 21st, 2005, 04:59 AM
^^
"The city has an incentive to buy hybrids because the federal government provides funding of one-third toward alternative fuel and hybrid vehicles," said Bob Boutilier, deputy general manager of the TTC. "In the end, it comes very close to costing the city less than actually buying a diesel bus."

Mr Man
January 21st, 2005, 05:55 AM
My apologies to the TTC.

salvius
January 21st, 2005, 06:56 AM
I'll comment when I see them.

Byron
January 21st, 2005, 08:04 AM
Don't tell me it's more of the same model of shitty buses we got a couple of years ago.

Homer J. Simpson
January 21st, 2005, 08:13 PM
This is a pic of the latest modle of Orion bus that the TTC has in service.

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/bus-8509-03.jpg


They are not to bad IMO especially when compared to the 7213 Novas, riding on them makes me car sick.

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/bus-8507-06.jpg

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/bus-8507-05.jpg

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/bus-8507-03.jpg

You are to blame
January 21st, 2005, 08:32 PM
^ i hate the bus in the 3 pics, there is no room in the aisle to walk or stand

Homer J. Simpson
January 21st, 2005, 08:46 PM
^Yepper, that too.

doady
January 21st, 2005, 10:21 PM
Why is the TTC still buying from Orion? The Orion 7's are crap, even crappier than the usual Orion bus. The back seats have no room for my knees, and are too far off the floor to rest my feet. The back doors take forever to close, and when they they finally do, they sometimes open again for no reason. I've been on these buses like 5-6 times and I've noticed these problems.

It seems almost every transit system in Ontario has had major technical problems with these buses, and all of them are avoiding Orion's buses except the TTC. I know that Mississauga Transit is never going to buy from Orion again, and there might even be a lawsuit involved between the two, even though they only got 15 of these buses. I doubt even subsidies from the federal government will be enough to get the penny-pinching, uber-conservative Queen of Sprawl herself to get these buses to save money.