I thought it might because of the high water table.

I thought it might because of the high water table.

That and because its right on the river. We wouldn't want TTT to just slide into Hillsborough River. :runaway:

That and because its right on the river. We wouldn't want TTT to just slide into Hillsborough River. :runaway:
oh hell no :ohno:

I think that would be some shit. Does anyone know how long it took to build the Amsouth building?

I really like thisrender of Trump Tower

http://trumptowertampa.com/images/gallery/model/model_2.jpg

from the east. Not bad. Though having the pastels in the sunset AND on the building sort of make me cringe...

from the east. Not bad. Though having the pastels in the sunset AND on the building sort of make me cringe...
Agree.

Hey you wouldn't know what the Denhotz/Gateway is?

never heard of it... Now you got me curious... what are you talking about? A project or a place or a program or computer or soemthing?

never heard of it... Now you got me curious... what are you talking about? A project or a place or a program or computer or soemthing?
It's a project. It was on Channelside.com and then go to the condos. It says it's a 10 story, 30 story and 3 40 story buildings

It's a project. It was on Channelside.com and then go to the condos. It says it's a 10 story, 30 story and 3 40 story buildings

I've never heard of it.

The only other interesting note on that Condo list is that it says that the Floridian is going 20% condo according to the list.

Let's see which one starts construction first, Waikiki or Tampa ...

Trump coming to Waikiki
He and his partners plan a $350 million luxury condo-hotel
By Allison Schaefers
aschaefers@starbulletin.com
REAL ESTATE celebrity and luxury hotel developer Donald Trump and Irongate Capital Partners, a Beverly Hills, Calif.-based investment firm, plan to bring a $350-million-plus, five-star luxury condominium hotel to Waikiki's Beach Walk project.

TRUMP WAIKIKI
Name: Trump International Hotel and Tower at Waikiki Beach Walk
Site: Kalia and Saratoga roads, across from Fort DeRussy Park
Height: 350 feet
Units: 460
Unit sizes: 500 to 3,000 square feet
Unit prices: $600,000+ to $7 million
Construction start: Early 2007
Target completion: Early 2009

The Trump International Hotel and Tower at Waikiki Beach Walk, to be on the corner of Kalia and Saratoga roads next to Fort DeRussy Park, will become the cornerstone of Outrigger Enterprises' $1 billion redevelopment.

"Trump Tower will be the most luxurious development in one of the most recognized resort destinations in the world today -- Waikiki Beach," Trump said in a statement. "My partners and I look forward to setting a new standard for luxury in Waikiki."

The project is expected to further gentrify Waikiki, and draw celebrities and power players in droves.

"This project is getting a lot of attention. We have already received calls from plenty of celebrities and top executives," said Jason Grosfeld, who co-founded Irongate along with Adam Fisher.

Honolulu Mayor Mufi Hannemann said the addition of the luxury development to the Waikiki Beach Walk is a testament to the attraction of the city as one of the world's most celebrated destinations.

"We are delighted to welcome Mr. Trump and Irongate, whose shared vision will only further strengthen the drawing power of Waikiki," Hannemann said.

Trump has redefined the luxury residential real estate and hotel markets in New York, where he became a global brand. Since then, Trump has expanded into other markets including Las Vegas; Chicago; Miami Beach; Los Angeles; the Caribbean; Westchester, N.Y.; and Bedminster, N.J.

Trump's other interests include office buildings, championship golf clubs, gaming, merchandise and entertainment -- an industry he took by storm with the introduction of his hit reality television show, "The Apprentice."

Trump's Waikiki tower will be featured at 9 p.m. on Monday on "The Apprentice" as one of the job choices for the evening's winner, Fisher said.

Outrigger Enterprises, the master developer of Waikiki Beach Walk, sold the land and development rights for the Trump Tower site to Irongate last year for more than $40 million, Fisher said.

The bullishness of Hawaii's visitor industry and real estate market, as well as the strength of Outrigger's redevelopment, sold Irongate on the project, Grosfeld said.

"The luxury segment of Asian buyers is back in full force, and American luxury buyers are rediscovering Honolulu, and more importantly Waikiki," Grosfeld said.

While Irongate has put its thumb print on other Honolulu projects including the luxury Watermark condominium development, Waikiki Beach Walk is Trump's first venture into Hawaii, Fisher said.

"We haven't partnered with Trump before, but we met him through another partner while we were trying to buy this property," he said. "We wanted to distinguish ourselves from all of the other buyers out there."
Word of Trump's involvement in the project, which was first rumored last year, has been the buzz among Hawaii's high-end real estate community since it was posted on www.trump.com, the official Web site for the Trump Organization. S&P Real Estate, the brokerage and listing firm for Trump's Waikiki tower, also registered an official project Web site, www.trumpwaikikihotel.com, in March.

Trump's Waikiki Tower, which will consist of about 460 suites ranging from 500 square feet to 3,000 square feet, will offer the best of residential and hotel living, Fisher said. The 775,000-square-foot project, which will rise 350 feet, will include 6,500 square feet of retail and dining space and a four-story parking garage, he said.

In addition to Trump's exclusive hotel services, owners and guests would have access to a full spa and fitness center, library, wine cellar, lobby bar, café, outdoor swimming pool and sun terrace with ocean views, Fisher said.

"We are currently negotiating with several top New York chefs to open signature restaurants," he said.

While official price points have not been released, some in the real estate business have said that they have been quoted unit costs ranging from the high $600,000s to about $7 million. Suites in the hotel rental pool are expected to fetch average daily room rates well above $400 a night, Fisher said.

Maintenance fees, which have not yet been set, are likely to be higher than other Waikiki properties because the tower will offer a greater amenity package, Fisher said.
Tower site work and demolition will begin this July, with construction expected to start in early 2007 and completion set for early 2009, according to a company press release. Prospective buyers can begin making reservations for the property this summer, with a first sales release to follow in November, said Gerry LeRose of S&P Destinations, in an e-mail that recently went out to select Hawaii real estate agents.

A preview center will open in Waikiki in July, LeRose said.

Demand for the luxury tower is likely to be really strong, said Debra Blachowiak, owner and principal broker for Sleeping Giant Sotheby's International Realty on Kauai.

"Trump has a huge name and a huge following," Blachowiak said. "I think many of my clients will be interested in this project and that it also will attract plenty of repeat investors who bought real estate from him in other regions."

Technically Trump Tower of Tampa is already under construction.

Which one goes verticle first? That's up for debate... but TTT is under construction.

I've never heard of it.

The only other interesting note on that Condo list is that it says that the Floridian is going 20% condo according to the list.
Trying to find some more info about it.

thatmust be wrong, they have some other things wrong on there too, so.....

The Denholtz property is the Times building area near the performing arts center (and maybe some more lots). There was never an official announement, just rumblings. I don't know where they got those numbers but I would chalk that up to "dreams" for now.

Interesting news about The Floridan, in the past few days I was at the site and I saw dump trucks around the back and they were hauling mats from the site.

^^ I think they've been doing some interior refurbishing for quite some time now, and I thought I saw them working on the windows towards the back of the property about a month ago.

can't wait to see what the project looks like when it's finished. From what I've heard, the Floridan used to be "the place to stay." :)

Trump Tower Financing Hits That Gray Phase
Tampa Bay Business Journal - June 2, 2006
by Michael Hinman - Staff Writer

TAMPA - Three months have passed since ground was broken for Trump Tower Tampa on Ashley Drive. And as the foundation nears completion and developers look to go vertical, two crucial questions remain: Who is going to build the 52-story structure and where is the money coming from?

Those questions have been asked in abundance by observers, even fueling speculation once again that the $225 million project is in jeopardy. Ask anyone at SimDag LLC, the company partnering with The Trump Organization on the tower, however they'll say there's nothing to worry about.

"You've got to remember that the sales response for this project, even after (a unit price) increase, has been phenomenal," said David Hooks, spokesman for the Trump Tower Tampa project. "The foundation work is continuing, and because of that, there's an opportunity to improve the terms of the financing being negotiated. The developers are taking that opportunity to finalize the best terms possible."

Still waiting for the announcement

When the ceremonial groundbreaking took place March 2, SimDag CEO Frank Dagostino admitted higher costs for construction material pushed the overall price tag of the tower by $75 million. While SimDag was able to eat some of those increases, more than $40 million had to be passed on to condominium buyers looking to buy units for between $700,000 and $6 million.

At the same time, however, Dagostino said two different financing companies were being approached to foot $200 million, with SimDag investing the other $20 million. He declined to reveal the names of those companies but said they would be named before the month ended.

Keeping the financial backers under wraps has nothing to do with the overall viability of the project, Hooks said. It's all about getting the best deal, something Kimberly Graham, a senior VP at Bank of America, said is very possible.

"It's different with all of our developers," said Graham, who works in the bank's commercial real estate division. "Some of our developers will start construction before we close a loan because they want to get started. Usually, though, they won't start until after closing."

Condominium construction, especially in Florida, remains big business, and there is a lot of money available in the financial market for projects like this, Graham said.

"Presales take care of that," she said. "If you get a reasonable deposit, that normally satisfies any concerns."

Should be no surprise

Even with a price increase at Trump Tower Tampa, nearly all the buyers were retained, Hooks said. Knowing foundation work won't be completed until August, SimDag officials decided there was time to try and work the best deal while continuing presales of a select number of the 192 units.

The same has been said for finding a contractor, which SimDag has been looking for since ending Turner Construction's involvement in April.

SimDag officials, however, shouldn't be too surprised that these issues are fueling speculation of an early demise to the project, said Byron Moger, senior director of the Capital Markets Group of Cushman & Wakefield.

"There's definitely enough turmoil in the retail condominium market that it's not surprising that people are questioning transactions," Moger said. "But if they continue to have the presales that have been announced, then there shouldn't be any problem in getting financing."

Trump Tower Tampa is one of a half dozen Trump-themed projects under construction or recently completed in Florida. They include the Trump Grande Ocean Resort & Residences in the Miami area; two projects in Fort Lauderdale: Trump International Hotel & Tower and Trump Las Olas Ocean Resort & Residences; Trump Hollywood in South Florida; and a trio of 45-story towers in Sunny Isles Beach.

Everywhere you turn ...

When Trump Tower Tampa is completed in late 2008, it will be just six stories shorter than the famous Trump Tower in New York City that was completed 25 years earlier. However, the two cities will hardly be unique in having "Trump Towers."

More than a dozen other Trump Towers are being built or already finished in various cities across the country and overseas. The largest one by far is Trump Tower Chicago, which will be the second largest tower in the city at 92 stories when it's finished, around the same time as Tampa's, at an estimated cost of $750 million. That's 20 stories larger than Trump World Tower in New York City, which had its 72 stories completed in 2001 for $300 million.

Other projects are under way in Philadelphia, Las Vegas, New Orleans, Toronto and even Panama City, Panama. Probably one of the most unique-looking designs is coming out of the Middle East where a 48-story tower that looks like it just stepped out of a science-fiction film is expected to be completed in Dubai for $600 million by the end of 2009. That design recently replaced the original plans drawn up in 2004 that would have constructed a Trump Tower that resembled a blooming tulip.

mhinman@bizjournals.com | 813.342.2477

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2006/06/05/story1.html

Hmm. If Trump Tower Tampa is 6 stories shorter than Trumps Tower in New York, which has 72 stories, that would mean Tampa will be getting a 66 story tower. Too bad it is only a typo. That would be sweet.

Hmm. If Trump Tower Tampa is 6 stories shorter than Trumps Tower in New York, which has 72 stories, that would mean Tampa will be getting a 56 story tower. Too bad it is only a typo. That would be sweet.

It'd be 66 stories not 56, even sweeter. ;)

So it is going to be August before TTT goes vertical? I thought in the beginning article they were saying that the foundation work was almost complete.

So it is going to be August before TTT goes vertical? I thought in the beginning article they were saying that the foundation work was almost complete.

In short, no one knows when its going vertical.

Several of my friends have told me there is a crane at the Trump site now..

Yeah baby finally we might go vertical..

^^Ther has been a small crane there for ages. Now if your talking about a tower crane thats a little more exciting..

Okay thx for the update Florida Future.. :bash: :bash: :bash:

Come on Donald, the Apprentice is over make it happen..

20 Units in TTT have recently been rereleased for sale

The article said "as the foundation nears completion and developers look to go vertical" which is a big stretch. My guess is look for columns going up in October.

In short, no one knows when its going vertical.

By the way, I drove by today and there are two fo the red carnes used for the caisson work. - as with most caisson work, it is hard to tell what they have actually done - it's a lot easier to figure on regular foundations . . . but so be it. as long as they keep moving . . .

20 Units in TTT have recently been rereleased for sale

Where did you see this?

I look down on this from the fifth floor on the other side of the river. It seems to be moving along. You would think drilling into the earth would take some time.

Where did you see this?

I received a sales brochure in the mail - plus there are a number of units currently listed on the MLS

Trump Tower financing hits that gray phase
Tampa Bay Business Journal - June 2, 2006
by Michael Hinman
Staff Writer

TAMPA - Three months have passed since ground was broken for Trump Tower Tampa on Ashley Drive. And as the foundation nears completion and developers look to go vertical, two crucial questions remain: Who is going to build the 52-story structure and where is the money coming from?

Those questions have been asked in abundance by observers, even fueling speculation once again that the $225 million project is in jeopardy. Ask anyone at SimDag LLC, the company partnering with The Trump Organization on the tower, however they'll say there's nothing to worry about.

"You've got to remember that the sales response for this project, even after (a unit price) increase, has been phenomenal," said David Hooks, spokesman for the Trump Tower Tampa project. "The foundation work is continuing, and because of that, there's an opportunity to improve the terms of the financing being negotiated. The developers are taking that opportunity to finalize the best terms possible."
Still waiting for the announcement

When the ceremonial groundbreaking took place March 2, SimDag CEO Frank Dagostino admitted higher costs for construction material pushed the overall price tag of the tower by $75 million. While SimDag was able to eat some of those increases, more than $40 million had to be passed on to condominium buyers looking to buy units for between $700,000 and $6 million.

At the same time, however, Dagostino said two different financing companies were being approached to foot $200 million, with SimDag investing the other $20 million. He declined to reveal the names of those companies but said they would be named before the month ended.

Keeping the financial backers under wraps has nothing to do with the overall viability of the project, Hooks said. It's all about getting the best deal, something Kimberly Graham, a senior VP at Bank of America, said is very possible.

"It's different with all of our developers," said Graham, who works in the bank's commercial real estate division. "Some of our developers will start construction before we close a loan because they want to get started. Usually, though, they won't start until after closing."

Condominium construction, especially in Florida, remains big business, and there is a lot of money available in the financial market for projects like this, Graham said.

"Presales take care of that," she said. "If you get a reasonable deposit, that normally satisfies any concerns."
Should be no surprise

Even with a price increase at Trump Tower Tampa, nearly all the buyers were retained, Hooks said. Knowing foundation work won't be completed until August, SimDag officials decided there was time to try and work the best deal while continuing presales of a select number of the 192 units.

The same has been said for finding a contractor, which SimDag has been looking for since ending Turner Construction's involvement in April.

SimDag officials, however, shouldn't be too surprised that these issues are fueling speculation of an early demise to the project, said Byron Moger, senior director of the Capital Markets Group of Cushman & Wakefield.

"There's definitely enough turmoil in the retail condominium market that it's not surprising that people are questioning transactions," Moger said. "But if they continue to have the presales that have been announced, then there shouldn't be any problem in getting financing."

Trump Tower Tampa is one of a half dozen Trump-themed projects under construction or recently completed in Florida. They include the Trump Grande Ocean Resort & Residences in the Miami area; two projects in Fort Lauderdale: Trump International Hotel & Tower and Trump Las Olas Ocean Resort & Residences; Trump Hollywood in South Florida; and a trio of 45-story towers in Sunny Isles Beach.

Everywhere you turn ...

When Trump Tower Tampa is completed in late 2008, it will be just six stories shorter than the famous Trump Tower in New York City that was completed 25 years earlier. However, the two cities will hardly be unique in having "Trump Towers."

More than a dozen other Trump Towers are being built or already finished in various cities across the country and overseas. The largest one by far is Trump Tower Chicago, which will be the second largest tower in the city at 92 stories when it's finished, around the same time as Tampa's, at an estimated cost of $750 million. That's 20 stories larger than Trump World Tower in New York City, which had its 72 stories completed in 2001 for $300 million.

Other projects are under way in Philadelphia, Las Vegas, New Orleans, Toronto and even Panama City, Panama. Probably one of the most unique-looking designs is coming out of the Middle East where a 48-story tower that looks like it just stepped out of a science-fiction film is expected to be completed in Dubai for $600 million by the end of 2009. That design recently replaced the original plans drawn up in 2004 that would have constructed a Trump Tower that resembled a blooming tulip.

mhinman@bizjournals.com | 813.342.2477

Didn't see this posted

That was already posted. check page 14.

That was already posted. check page 14.
Look for some new information shortly. Good news for the project.

:gossip:

Look for some new information shortly. Good news for the project.

:gossip:

Do you know something that you are not telling us?

Do you know something that you are not telling us?
I Know they are getting close to announcing who their G.C. is going to be. I had heard it would come today or early next week.

Look for some new information shortly. Good news for the project.

:gossip:

This sort of cryptic rumoring is expressly forbidden in this forum's posting rules... Either there is something worth reporting (that can legally be made public), or don't bother posting.

This sort of cryptic rumoring is expressly forbidden in this forum's posting rules...

No problem brother.

Does anyone have any current (past week) of Trump site?

Here is a quick Photoshop merge of a few shots I took yesterday.

http://SCL.smugmug.com/photos/78485905-L.jpg

Well, the look like they are doing something - though it is slow going.

Nice pic Gdad! Nice to see at least bodies on site.

I can not wait to see the site go vertical.

They are defintely doing something out there... The site still had numerous workers on it at 6pm.

This morning on Bay News 9, I saw a little quicky report that Turner Construction had filed a $1.2 million lien on the property. I don't know if this is just routine, or if the developers are having trouble with the finances. Has SimDag announced the new arrangement yet?

^ This certainly doesn't sound good.

A poster on UP is saying that he saw on the news where Trump Tower will likely not be built.

So, if Trump doesn't get built will another developer come and propose a tower?

This specualtion is very nice - put it in a "TTT complete specualtion" thread so I don't keep checking here for real news and getting guesses. Thanks

Is it possible to do that? To start a foundation and not finish?

A poster on UP is saying that he saw on the news where Trump Tower will likely not be built.

Well, we're not exactly talking about a reliable source though, are we?






I urge several of you to take a gander at this forum's no rumors rule, which was created for just this kind of thing... :)

Is it possible to do that? To start a foundation and not finish?

They really haven't started the real foundation yet, but if they did and then stopped the city could probaly do something about it. They had workers out yesterday. If it wasn't alive they wouldn't waist time with people out there. And that lot is the most prime lot in the city, something will get built on it, something tall.

I doubt they would start such a huge project and not finish it especially with the Trump name on it.

Work has not stopped anyday that I can see. They have been drilling non-stop on non-weekends and non-holidays. My new desk is at a window and can see down at the worksite.

Photos, por favor!!!

I was walking by the Trump Tower site over the Brorein bridge and it appears construction has begun in earnest. They were busy drilling large holes for caissons and lowering a 70' tall rebar column in one such hole by crane. :rock:

So are the back on ground work?

I was walking by the Trump Tower site over the Brorein bridge and it appears construction has begun in earnest. They were busy drilling large holes for caissons and lowering a 70' tall rebar column in one such hole by crane. :rock:

Sweet. :cheers:

I emailed someone yesterday asking what is happening and all. I'm hoping on getting a reply soon.

I thought the caissons were square or box-shaped. All I see there is round or cylinder-shaped stuff and the cylinder rebar. Any updates?

Cassions themselves are round -- the CAPS for the cassions are retangular/square shapped.

Thanks John. How do they connect the caissons to the acutal exterior concrete that starts the vertical flow of the building? I'm no expert on this obviously but have been learning.

Thanks to everyone that's been taking the pics of the site. It's hard to tell what they are doing at ground level with the fence & banner blocking the view.

Check out Trump Tower New Orleans. Don't know if it will actually be built but the pic shows a tall tower, taller than TTT. Really nice.

^ Looks like Trump is borrowing from the Novare strategy...the proposed New Orleans tower reminds me of the Trump Chicago tower.
Compare:
Chicago (under construction) - http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/144909.jpg
New Orleans (proposed) - http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=234328

Thanks John. How do they connect the caissons to the acutal exterior concrete that starts the vertical flow of the building? I'm no expert on this obviously but have been learning.


Every project is different. I'll try for the simple answer. Basically you leave exposed rebar sticking out of your pile caps. The vertical rebar is either tension or compression spliced to the wall forms and the exposed horizontal rebar is spliced and connected with a series of grade beams.

I could probably write a ten page paper that would properly answer your question so take the info for what it is.

ON, that's a good enough answer. Mine was just deduced by what I watched on the skypoint cam and asking in here (and getting answers from Smiley and Jasonhouse) about things I didn't understand.

That being said -- Robbie, if you have the link for Skypoint's webcam handy, I'd recommend calling it up -- go back to around August 2005 and progress forward by the day and you should see the process explained a little through the pictures.

I spoke to a contractor I'm working with on this job and he said the developer had to spend millions more to drill down to hit rock for the caissons which could explain some of the delay meanwhile they are still trying to find a better deal from a general contractor for construction work

I spoke to a contractor I'm working with on this job and he said the developer had to spend millions more to drill down to hit rock for the caissons which could explain some of the delay

This is true- Also, you may see a deep continuous concrete mat in lieu of pile caps (which essentially becomes one huge pile cap) to eliminate differential settlement- one side of the building settling at a different rate than the other. This was used on the Trump Tower in Chicago.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/Chgo83/DSCF2133.jpg
Chicago Site - Photo by ChgoLvr83 - August 19th, 2005

http://skyscrapercity.com/archive/index.php/t-226082.html

Trump is taking forever i guess because its such a major building but still. :bash:

Thanks O.N. and John. Good idea. I'll check out the Skypoint cam. BTW, drove by the TTT site today. Work work work.

Be prepared for some more info on TTT soon.
You will finally start to see some real construction activity. :) :)

Be prepared for some more info on TTT soon.
You will finally start to see some real construction activity. :) :)
could you be a bit more specific please? Are you saying that we'll see something above ground soon or what?

could you be a bit more specific please? Are you saying that we'll see something above ground soon or what?

I apologize for not reading all the info on rumors.
There should be an announcement on the GC selected to build the project within the next week or so. I dont have any concrete dates on when this will take place.

As soon as the caissons are complete the remaining underground and foundation work can start which leads to what everyone is looking for.......vertical construction.

I will post more information when I can.

I apologize for not reading all the info on rumors.
There should be an announcement on the GC selected to build the project within the next week or so. I dont have any concrete dates on when this will take place.

As soon as the caissons are complete the remaining underground and foundation work can start which leads to what everyone is looking for.......vertical construction.

I will post more information when I can.
I look forward for more info about TTT from you. If I may, can I ask how you are able to get this information?

I look forward for more info about TTT from you. If I may, can I ask how you are able to get this information?

I work in the business.

Granted construction is filled with wild rumors and speculation. But construction guys like to talk. Especially those that are excited about upcoming work.

I work in the business.

Granted construction is filled with wild rumors and speculation. But construction guys like to talk. Especially those that are excited about upcoming work.
Cool!

I would like to here more about TTT. Can I give you my email address?

I will post more information when I can.

I can feel your pain brother.

Ummm... Anyone else notice the caisson operation is stopped? I was by the site today and Case Atlantic is gone. Caisson machines are all gone. I don't think they are anywhere near done. And still no GC. :wtf:

this job will get built according to one of the contractors on the job i work with. They evidently had to go the equilavent of 17 stories in order to hit rock. I don't think the developer would invest millions in the foundation to not finish the job

Subs rarely know whether the project is going to get built until they have been released with a signed P.O. Plus, anyone who tells you they couldn't hit bedrock for 17 floors probably shouldnt be trusted. It wouldn't be that unreasonable for a foundation permit to get released without the rest of the building.

Trump financing goes circular
Tampa Bay Business Journal - August 4, 2006
by Michael Hinman
Staff Writer

TAMPA -- Wanted: $194 million for a "luxury condo tower in the heart of downtown Tampa."

New York-based Trump Mortgage LLC has been advertising such a "senior financing opportunity" for Trump Tower Tampa from a not-so-well traveled area of its Web site. With the 52-story Trump Tower project reportedly just weeks from going vertical, it's still not clear who will finance the project, and SimDag executives have been mum about it since an early March groundbreaking when they said they would announce a finance partner in a matter of weeks.

It's not just the fact that the Trump Mortgage circular seems to still be looking for someone to front the cash for Trump Tower Tampa that has raised a few eyebrows. The second paragraph of the circular provides some sales details, saying the luxury project has surpassed the $140 million mark in hard pre-sales and is "approximately in the 40 percent range."
New circular ... old news?

"Clearly, it (the circular) hadn't been updated," said David Hooks, a SimDag spokesman. "Those were the numbers available to them at the time it was created, and I don't know what time it was done."

The two-page circular could be found on the Trump Mortgage Web site but doesn't seem to be linked from any common pages. It talked about how "ground has been broken in late March and the developer has been working out of pocket while putting an all-star general contracting team together."

That would suggest the circular was developed, or at least updated, since after the March 2 groundbreaking and possibly even after Turner Construction Co.'s April departure from the project.

At the time of the groundbreaking, SimDag issued a press release quoting the development company's CEO, Frank Dagostino, about how pre-sales were going.

"The market certainly responded," Dagostino said in the release. "Even with a price increase necessitated by rapidly accelerating construction costs, all but a few units have been sold except for those we're holding off the market to sell in the future, likely when we near the end of construction."

Hooks said in an e-mail conversation with the Tampa Bay Business Journal this past week that SimDag has contracts on 80 percent of the units and half of the remaining units are being held off the market for future release.

"Of the other remaining 10 percent, five or six units are in the process of going to contract, meaning that buyers have selected units but the contracts have not yet been returned," Hooks said, adding that just 14 or 15 units are available. As far as financing goes, Hooks said nothing has changed. "They (SimDag) are in discussions with two institutions for the best deal. For that reason, I do not believe that they are reaching out to anyone else."
Changing condo market could have effect

Since Trump Tower Tampa was announced in January 2005, the condominium market has greatly changed, said Scott Davis, a senior VP with NorthMarq Capital. Until this year, financial institutions required much less up front when looking to finance a condominium project in Florida, but now that condo sales are slowing down, that has changed quite a bit.

"The lenders that finance construction of these condo projects usually want 80 to 100 percent of their loan covered by presale contracts," Davis said. "Nowadays, they actually want to see closer to 100 percent."

E.J. Ridings, president and CEO of Trump Mortgage, lists his phone number on the circular for those interested in the "unique financing opportunity." He responded to an e-mail asking for comment, pledged to "do the best I can to accommodate" but then did not offer comment before deadline.

Trump Tower Tampa isn't the only project Trump Mortgage is looking for financial help. Circulars also were found on the Web site seeking $42 million for two mall complexes in Barbados, as well as $169 million for hotels in Charlotte, N.C., and in the U.S. Virgin Islands.

The Trump Tower Tampa circular was produced "some time ago by Trump Mortgage to promote the opportunity because the financing had not been finalized," Hooks said. "As we have mentioned, we have companies competing for the business, and until we have an agreement that has been executed, it's prudent to continue promoting."

But Hooks promises they won't be promoting for long.

"My understanding from the developer is that they may finalize the financing this week," he said. "When that does occur, the Trump Mortgage message will be discontinued."

SimDag executives are expecting to build the projected $260 million project on a 1.5-acre site at 111 S. Ashley Drive. It is touted to include 192 condominium units ranging from 1,991 square feet to 6,150 square feet.
Trump Tower Tampa Timeline

Jan. 9, 2005: SimDag-RoBEL LLC announces plans for a 52-story Trump Tower Tampa with a $220 million price tag.

Feb. 18, 2005: Former professional wrestler Jody Simon and second-season "The Apprentice" winner Kelly Perdew come aboard the project. Donald Trump visits Tampa saying the tower is 98 percent sold and that he expects to break ground "in weeks."

Oct. 14, 2005: Dr. Howard Howell and Patrick Shepard sell their interest in Trump Tower Tampa. Turner Construction Co. is said to be coming aboard as builder, but SimDag will wait two months before making the official announcement.

March 2, 2006: What was supposed to happen "in weeks" actually takes a year as SimDag officially breaks ground. Trump says he needs to stay close to home with his pregnant wife, Melania. SimDag says the project is 80 percent sold out but will cost $75 million more. CEO Frank Dagostino says a financing partner will be announced before the end of March.

April 2006: Turner and SimDag part ways.

June 2, 2006: The three weeks to announce a financial partner becomes three months. Dagostino says he is still negotiating with two companies.

June 30, 2006: Turner files a $1.2 million lien against Trump Tower Tampa. Dagostino says it's a standard procedure following a separation. Beck and PCL Constructors Inc. are rumored to be in the running to replace Turner.

Going vertical in a few weeks.. Sounds good to me...

This project is so huge to Tampa ...

Based on my conversations with a geotech engineer close to the project, dont expect any activity anytime soon. They have a lot of subsurface exploration to do. They encountered some nasty soils.

They have demobed most of the caisson equipment. So it looks like its going to be a while before we see any progress.

I have a question...

Is it possible for a developer to sell a development that has not been developed yet? For instance- could a condo developer sell off their interests in a condo coming out of the ground just on speculation? I'm not talking about units here- the whole thing (property, design, contracts, presales, etc.) Just curious- not really talking about anyone in particular.

Buildit Tampa is right about those construction workers.

Based on my conversations with a geotech engineer close to the project, dont expect any activity anytime soon. They have a lot of subsurface exploration to do. They encountered some nasty soils.

They have demobed most of the caisson equipment. So it looks like its going to be a while before we see any progress.

This project seems to be a fine example of what the true definition of PATIENCE is. Hopefully, this is just a minor setback and vertical construction can begin soon afterwards.

Sure you can sell a development that hasnt started or is in the process of starting. Now when you buy something that is under construction or in planning the new owner takes all the risk of completing the project, selling the units, etc. The seller usually tries to get back what money he has sunk into the project. Legal fees, property purchase, architect fees.

For instance, with the Trump project the purchaser could purchase the land and any improvements (such as the incompete caissons) plus the unit purchase contracts and the construction drawings. Since there is no financing in place (or so we are told) the new owner is free to shop for a new contractor, or design a totally different structure and refund the purchase deposits.

Drove by the site today - while a lot of the actual caisson stuff apperaed to be gone, the cranes and other equipment was there. In other words not an empty site, and keeping that stuff there would cost enough to lead one to think they are still doing something rather than just bleeding money on useless equipment.

By SHANNON BEHNKEN The Tampa Tribune

Published: Aug 19, 2006


TAMPA - Trump Tower Tampa, the 52-story riverfront project trumpeted as downtown's crowning luxury condominium building, is still at ground level and without construction financing, its project manager acknowledged Friday.

Eby Paul, project manager for Tampa-based developer SimDag LLC, said work has slowed but that he expects to increase construction as early as next week. The project has been without a general contractor since April, but Paul said an announcement about a new one will be made soon.

"We're still working," Paul said.

Condominium financing has slowed considerably in recent months, and bankers who financed other Florida projects say the current market would make it more difficult for Trump developers to get the kind of funding they want.

Phillip Carroll, southeast regional real estate manager for Key Bank, which has financed condominium projects throughout the state, said if SimDag "doesn't have the financing by now, it could be many years before they get a bank to give them a construction loan."

"If they're not going vertical, they're way off their target date" of August 2008, Carroll said.

In comparison, developers of the 32-story SkyPoint downtown condominium filed notice to begin work within a month of Trump Tower developers. SkyPoint's construction now looms high above Ashley Drive.

David Hooks, spokesman for the Trump Tower project, would not say where the financing stands and would not answer general questions. He did say a news release with updates would be issued soon.

For days, construction appeared to have halted at the Ashley Drive site. Friday afternoon, three workers were on the property.

Since plans were announced January 2005 for a 600-foot, $220 million tower - which would be Tampa's tallest - the project completion date has been moved several times, and developers parted ways with at least two contractors. Developers acknowledged in February that costs have gone up 50 percent and that they had passed along a $40 million increase to buyers with reservations to acquire units.

At the time, Frank Dagostino, SimDag's chief executive officer, said 80 percent of the 192 units were spoken for. The majority of those buyers had contracts, he said, and had put down 20 percent nonrefundable deposits.

Bovis Lend Lease Bid Too High
In August 2005, Bovis Lend Lease, a unit of Australian Lend Lease Corp., the developer doing the site work, said it was vying to become the general contractor but had been told its bid was too high.

In December 2005, SimDag announced Dallas-based Turner Construction Co. as the general contractor. A groundbreaking ceremony was held in March, and Turner was dropped in April. At that time, Hooks, the SimDag spokesman, said the change would not delay construction and that condos would be ready for tenants in August 2008.

Turner filed with Hillsborough County a $1.6 million lien on the property on June 14, saying it had not been paid for "furnished labor materials equipment, tools, supervision and related services" for Trump Tower.

Scott Skidelsky, vice president and general manager for Turner, signed the lien. He could not be reached for comment for this story.

Hooks would not address the lien.

Bob Bass, with the city's Inspection Services Division, said a permit for construction of the shell of the building was issued in March. The city is waiting for engineering reports before it can issue permits for other work, he said.

"We look at those reports because we want to make sure the building is built in a safe manner," Bass said.

Builder Didn't Like Wachovia Offer
Ted Starkey, of Wachovia Bank, said his bank negotiated with the Trump team earlier in the development process. He said the bank made SimDag an offer but that it was turned down.

At the time, he said, the team was asking for a nonrecourse loan, which he said is not unusual for large projects such as Trump Tower. It isn't, however, a loan typically approved by commercial banks because the developers "don't have to personally sign their name, guaranteeing the loan amount."

The condominium building market has slowed dramatically, and banks are much more reluctant to issue loans for condo development, especially nonrecourse loans, said Carroll, of Miami-based Key Bank.

Some banks are still lending to condo developers, but they are much pickier, Carroll said.

Banks used to require a developer to have enough pre-sales to cover as little as 50 percent of the loan amount. Today, he said, most banks require 100 percent coverage.

Another change in today's market, he said, is that banks used to finance up to 90 percent of the construction amount. Now it's more likely to be 70 percent to 80 percent.

Carroll is not involved in the Trump project but said a tower of its size likely would take three years to build, making it difficult to meet the projected August 2008 completion date.

Calls to Donald Trump's offices were not returned.

At least one buyer, Stephen Page, of Clearwater, said he's unconcerned.

"I'm looking forward to this going vertical," Page said, noting he paid just under $1 million for the two-bedroom condo he wants on the 34th floor. "Knowing the Trump people, I have a lot of confidence they'll get it done."

Kate Caldwell of News Channel 8 contributed to this report. Reporter Shannon Behnken can be reached at (813) 259-7804.


Find this article at:
http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBAKS1H1RE.html

At least one buyer, Stephen Page, of Clearwater, said he's unconcerned.

"I'm looking forward to this going vertical," Page said, noting he paid just under $1 million for the two-bedroom condo he wants on the 34th floor. "Knowing the Trump people, I have a lot of confidence they'll get it done."

Mr. Page, you might want to ask for your money back.

New tallests for Florida currently in doubt:

Miami - Met 3

FTL - Icon Las Olas

Tampa - Trump Tower Tampa

Sad to say but I think your right. :(

New tallests for Florida currently in doubt:

Miami - Met 3

FTL - Icon Las Olas

Tampa - Trump Tower Tampa

I was under the impression that Met 3 in Miami had already broken ground and was listed as being "under construction" according to Emporis. Personally, I would like to see all 3 towers become a reality.

I think that the ones in Tampa and Miami will get built but the ine in FTL wont

I sure hope so :bash: If not the Trump is FIRED! :runaway:

I was under the impression that Met 3 in Miami had already broken ground and was listed as being "under construction" according to Emporis. Personally, I would like to see all 3 towers become a reality.

No, Chuck found out last week that it is 'stalled for now' and there was a suggestion of a Fall start or even an early '07 start. In any case, there are now serious doubts about the project.

Trump Tower developer selling Clearwater condos
Tampa Bay Business Journal - 3:33 PM EDT Monday

SimDag LLC has signed an agreement with New Homes America to market and sell units at Antigua Bay Yacht Club in Clearwater.

Antigua Bay Yacht Club is a multi-complex residence in progress with 133 units, most overlooking Clearwater Harbor. They range in size from 1,600 square feet to more than 2,600 square feet and in prices from $844,000 to more than $1.3 million. Construction will take approximately 22 months from the start of construction.

New Homes America began business in the Tampa Bay area in 1989 and now has sales centers in Tampa, Sarasota and Fort Myers.

SimDag is a privately held real estate development firm with offices in Tampa and Ocean City, N.J. It is the developer of record for the proposed Trump Tower Tampa project in downtown Tampa.

That project broke ground earlier this year but has yet to name a lender or a general contractor.

Tampa Tower Troubles Trump
Skip directly to the full story.
By SHANNON BEHNKEN The Tampa Tribune

Published: Aug 23, 2006

TAMPA - Donald Trump, the celebrity real estate mogul whose name is connected to a planned 52-story luxury condominium downtown, said Tuesday he's concerned about the project's progress and financing and is willing to buy out the Tampa-based developer's interest.

As long as his name's on it, he wants the estimated $220 million Trump Tower Tampa to be a success.

"This is the only job I have in the world that isn't going up quickly," Trump said in a telephone interview with The Tampa Tribune. "I could build that [tower] out of my back pocket. This isn't a big job for me."

Calls to the developer, SimDag LLC, were not returned. Questions about the project were e-mailed to the project's spokesman David Hooks. By late Tuesday night, one was answered. Hooks confirmed by e-mail that two firms are bidding to finance the project.

Trump revealed for the first time Tuesday that his deal with SimDag is a licensing agreement and that he has had little involvement with details of the project.

Of Trump's 25 projects worldwide, he said 40 percent are such licensing agreements. In the Tampa deal, the Trump name was licensed for an undisclosed sum and percentage of the sales. In return, the developer must agree to certain standards, such as "the best refrigerators, curtains, flooring."

"We turn down six jobs for every job we agree to," Trump said.

The building, touted as a crowning jewel in Tampa's downtown redevelopment, has yet to go vertical. Eby Paul, SimDag's project manager, said Friday the developer did not have its construction financing but was getting close to naming a new general contractor. He said he hoped to increase construction next week.

Since the Tampa project was announced in January 2005, at least two contractors have been dismissed. Groundbreaking deadlines and completion dates have been pushed back several times, and at least $40 million in construction increases were passed on to buyers with reservations to buy units.

On June 14, the general contractor who was let go in April filed a $1.6 million lien on the property with Hillsborough County. Dallas-based Turner Construction Co. said it had not been paid for "furnished labor materials, equipment, tools, supervision and related services" for Trump Tower.

Meanwhile, Trump said he wants to the see the tower take off. He said when he was approached by the developers in 2004, he "liked the design of the building" and his organization "made it better."

"The developers have great confidence that they're going to build," Trump said. "But if they don't build it, I would love to buy them out and move forward. I like the location and the design, and I love Tampa."

Beyond the name, Trump said he hasn't been involved in the day-to-day dealings of this project. While he has development partners on many of his projects, he said the Tampa deal is unusual.

Other towers that he either owns and is developing himself, or owns a larger stake in, are going up faster, he said. He noted Chicago's $800 million, 92-story tower has 15 floors in the ground. Construction on towers in Las Vegas and New York are well under way.

Jay Magner, who purchased a unit on Trump Tower Tampa's 40th floor for $1.1 million, said he bought for the Trump name but believes in SimDag.

"I feel like I know SimDag better than Donald Trump," Magner said. "I mean, he's had bankruptcies before.

"If [Trump] takes it over, it will be fine because I don't think he wants anything that could damage his reputation. But I have confidence in SimDag."

The condominium market has changed drastically since developers announced the project 19 months ago. There are more than 30 towers proposed for downtown Tampa, and lenders are much more cautious in backing deals.

Bankers who financed other Florida condo projects have told the Tribune it will be difficult for Trump developers to find the kind of financing they want.

Trump said that wouldn't be a problem for him.

"Banks love me," he said.

Now that interest rates have risen and condominium construction has slowed nationwide, name branding may give some projects an advantage, said Jeff Swystun of New-York-based Interbrand, which tracks the value of brand names.

"People are willing to pay a premium for the brand."

Branding does pose risks for Trump, though.

"If [the developers] don't follow through with their project, the brand breaks down," Swystun said, noting that Trump's thought of buying the developer out is "a pretty smart move."

"Now, isn't that a guarantee of the quality of his brand?"

Reporter Shannon Behnken can be reached at (813) 259-7804.

http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBOUUL67RE.html

Maybe it's time for the Trumpster to take a little trip down here and straighten out this whole mess. It would be a shame if Chicago got their tower completed before Tampa's, especially since it is 92 stories tall!!!

Trump Tower Has New Problem

By SHANNON BEHNKEN The Tampa Tribune

Published: Aug 29, 2006

TAMPA - The developer installing caissons to support the 52-story Trump Tower Tampa condominium has discovered it will need to add more caissons and sink them much deeper into the ground.

SimDag LLC, the Tampa-based developer, told a city inspector it found a "subsurface anomaly" and will bore as deep as 250 feet to make sure the massive riverfront tower is supported, the inspector wrote in a two-paragraph e-mail to his boss last week.

"It's really a normal thing," said Housh Ghovaee, chief executive of Clearwater-based Northside Engineering Services Inc., one of the companies working on the project. "You have to do this kind of testing, and then you design according to those results."

Ghovaee said it is not uncommon to find ground instability when building a 600-foot high-rise. "You test the ground in one location and get one result, then you test in another spot and get a different result."

SimDag spokesman David Hookswould not comment on the irregularity but said letters are being mailed to "buyers and prospects" to "give them news from us."

This is just the latest complication for the tower, unveiledin January 2005 and presented as the centerpiece of Tampa's downtownredevelopment. SimDag confirmed Aug. 18 that it does not yet have construction financing and that work at the site has slowed.

The developer has parted ways with at least two contractors and passed along at least $40 million in increased construction costs to buyers. It has been without a general contractor since it dismissedDallas-based Turner Construction Co. in April.

Adding to the pressure, Donald Trump told The Tampa Tribune last week that he was troubled by the slow progress and is prepared to buy out SimDag's interest and construct the tower himself.

"I could build that [tower] out of my back pocket," Trump said.

Hooks would not say Monday whether SimDag was considering selling its interest to Trump.

Trump also revealed for the first time last week that the Tampa project is among the 40 percent of his 25 worldwide projects that are licensing deals. He said developers paid him an undisclosed amount to use his name. He will also get a percentage of the sales, he said.

The added cost of installing additional caissons could especially hurt the developer now. Buyers converted to hard contract, developers said in February. At the time, developers went back to buyers - who had only reservations - for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Original prices ranged from $700,000 to $6 million.

Now, with firm deposits and contracts in hand, SimDag may find that asking buyers for more money would be a lot trickier, banking experts say.

What building the tower will cost is unclear. It was announced as a $220 million project, but developers have mentioned estimates as high as $260 million. With the cost of steel and other construction materials rising, adding more caissons on the site possibly could add millions to the total cost.

When asked last week about adding caissons, Trump said ground instability is not a problem for him.

"Nobody knows about caissons more than me," he said. "All you have to do is make them a little heavier. It doesn't matter how unstable the land is."

The project's original completion date of late 2007 has been pushed back several times. The last date the developer cited was late 2008. Lenders who have financed other condo towers in Florida have said it takes at least three years to build a tower such as this one.

Jay Magner, who bought a unit on the 40th floor, said the developers told him last week that they are also going to add a concrete foundation to the site.

"It was my interpretation that the piece of land wasn't as solid as they had hoped," Magner said. "They're going to make it a good piece of land."


http://www.tbo.com/news/money/MGB0TJOKFRE.html

Better to be safe than sorry. We sure don't want this thing to end up looking like the Leaning Tower of Pisa.

The saga continues. These guys are idiots. "Subsurface anamoly?" It's a little late for that. If I had purchased there I think I would have been having a "post purchase anamoly" and been asking for my money back.

More Caissons = More $$$
More Time = More $$$

The saga continues. These guys are idiots. "Subsurface anamoly?" It's a little late for that. If I had purchased there I think I would have been having a "post purchase anamoly" and been asking for my money back.

More Caissons = More $$$
More Time = More $$$
Well they are only building a ~600 foot building on the bed of a river.

bump

Whats your point? We do it all the time.

Whats your point? We do it all the time.
Seems to be a problem in Tampa. They built an elevated highway that sank into the ground a few years ago. Interesting trivia point is that it opens today.

Trump jumps in to help tower
With financing on the Tampa project lagging, the magnate's head office decides to get involved to make sure the skyscraper gets built.
Published August 31, 2006

TAMPA - Frustrated by the failure of local developers to land financing for Trump Tower Tampa, the Trump Organization said it will take the lead in finding lenders for the proposed luxury condominium high-rise.

"We're taking a more active role in the financing side of things. Hopefully we can see what we can do," Donald Trump Jr. told the St. Petersburg Times Wednesday in a telephone interview from New York City.

"Everything about the project has been a total success. It would be a shame not to get it built."

At 52 stories, Trump Tower would be the highest skyscraper in west Florida. But the Tampa riverfront project has struggled to find a $200-million loan in the current housing downturn. Developer SimDag LLC is delinquent in paying a former contractor and is almost certain to postpone the tower's scheduled late 2008 grand opening.

Trump is the 28-year-old son of New York real estate tycoon and casino owner Donald Trump. Speaking for his father, Trump Jr. said his company has left most business decisions to SimDag, a Tampa company that persuaded Trump to lend his name to the tower in exchange for a licensing fee.

But the $260-million, 600-foot project was sideswiped by rising construction costs, including huge jumps in the price of concrete and steel. Last week SimDag told city inspectors that soil instability on the 1.5-acre site at Ashley Drive and Brorein Street is bloating its budget for steel and concrete pilings.

SimDag's New York partner decided to intervene, Trump Jr. said, and is "collecting all financial data" from SimDag to salvage the project.

"We've been hit very hard from the cost side of things," Trump said. "The brand is good, but it's the cost side."

SimDag spokesman David Hooks couldn't confirm the change in how the partnership functions. Attempts Wednesday to reach SimDag chief executive Frank Dagostino were unsuccessful.

Trump expressed frustration that the other Trump-branded residential towers in cities such as Chicago and Las Vegas were thriving while Tampa's appeared mired in the mud.

He noted that SimDag had sold out a majority of the tower's 192 condos, ranging in price from $700,000 to $6.2-million.

"From a sales perspective, it's probably set every record in Tampa," Trump said.

But lenders have remained skeptical. Roughly 10,000 unsold condos clog Tampa Bay area real estate listings. Many were scooped up by investors who are struggling to find buyers in the relatively tepid housing market. Few of those units, however, approach the price and luxury touted by Trump.

Trump Tower Tampa was hatched in 2004, though it wasn't until Feburary 2005 that Donald Trump Sr. whooshed into town in a limousine to kick off sales.

A year later the tower had yet to begin rising, and SimDag had hit up depositors for an extra $40-million to cover cost overruns.

The tower formally broke ground in March of this year, a ceremony at which Trump Sr. was absent. Two weeks later, Turner Construction Co., the lead contractor, left the project and in June slapped a lien on SimDag to recover $1.6-million it says it's owed.

According to Trump Jr., the scheduled late 2008 completion date is probably unworkable. He floated a potential move-in date of early 2009, provided Trump Tower starts going vertical in the next several months.

"There's no reason we can't build it in two years," he said.

Trump suggested his company, with its billions of dollars in assets, might have better luck approaching banks and lenders. But he made no promises of success.

"If it can be done, it will be done," Trump Jr. said.

At what point would the Trump Organization consider backing out of the project?

"We don't like to think that way," he said.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/08/31/Business/Trump_jumps_in_to_hel.shtml

Trump himself sounds a little shaky this time:

"If it can be done, it will be done."

Seems to be a problem in Tampa. They built an elevated highway that sank into the ground a few years ago. Interesting trivia point is that it opens today.

You shouldn't try to find fault with the Geology and instead should be focusing on the poor engineering of the Reversible Lame (pun intended) and shoddy construction by the company hired to build it.

The pilings didn't go down deep enough, that was found to be the fault.

You shouldn't try to find fault with the Geology and instead should be focusing on the poor engineering of the Reversible Lame (pun intended) and shoddy construction by the company hired to build it.

The pilings didn't go down deep enough, that was found to be the fault.

And that was the fault of the Engineer, not the contractor. Obviously you take what the news media says as gospel. There was no failure due to "shoddy construction". If you happened to use your eyes and your brain you would have seen that the segments of the bridge stayed together and that piers in question did not collapse, the ground underneath gave way and the piers sank. That is good construction and structural engineering. There was no catastrophic collapse. Yes there were errors made by the foundation engineer. And probably lost his license and his job. Shoddy construction is probably what you see when you walk into your house everyday.

Florida geology is very difficult to deal with. The subsurface conditions vary widely. What you find underneath you at one spot can be totally different 20 feet away. So finding an anomaly is not that surprising, particularly along the river where the geology is based mostly on sedimentation. Obviously this anomaly could have been discovered earlier with a more detailed and exhaustive geotechnical exploration program. But most owners are unwilling to spend a lot of money on this. But as the old adage goes "spend a little now or spend a lot later"


Redesigning a foundation is more common than you might think.

And that was the fault of the Engineer, not the contractor.

Very True- I posted a good article from ENR that explained this a while back.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=8987294&postcount=9

[QUOTE=BuilditTampa]And that was the fault of the Engineer, not the contractor. Obviously you take what the news media says as gospel. There was no failure due to "shoddy construction". If you happened to use your eyes and your brain you would have seen that the segments of the bridge stayed together and that piers in question did not collapse, the ground underneath gave way and the piers sank. That is good construction and structural engineering. There was no catastrophic collapse. Yes there were errors made by the foundation engineer. And probably lost his license and his job. Shoddy construction is probably what you see when you walk into your house everyday.QUOTE]

Damn, BuilditTampa. you could have made your point without the adhom... geez :(

You seem to have taken John's comments rather personally. Did you, by chance, work on the project directly?

Would you have fired the foundation engineer? The contractor?

More importantly, (and back to this thread) do you trust that Donald Trump will ultimately make this project happen?

Keep in mind, SimDag is not some fly-by-night company. The fact that they are finding it difficult to secure financing (even with the Trump name behind it) speaks volumes.

A year ago I thought this project was a certainty; now, I'm really not so sure. Personally, I'm hoping that this all gets resolved because I would like to see Trump Tower add its mark to our skyline. :)

I think that someone with his standing, he would make it happen over night, but I do not see him lift a finger to help. Other than that article saying that he would put forth the financing. I personally would love to see this project take flight, but as of right now I do not see it happening.

Keep in mind, SimDag is not some fly-by-night company. - You sure about that Quegiebo?

I think the situation has to be looked at a bit more realistically.

The units are supposedly pretty well sold, correct? Somewhere around 80% is what they say?

Donald Trump steps up in all his glory and says that "he can pay for it out of his back pocket." Sounds too much like one of those things that you say when you've been drinking too much and you just start spouting off.

O.K., wheres it at? Escalation isin't showing any signs of stoping. Right now on average we are seeing a 2-3% increase every month in costs on the most basic of materials, with others like steel and copper nearly doubling that number. SimDag passed on $40 million dollars onto perspective buyers and I have a feeling that a good percentage of them told them to respectively "shove it up there ass." People buying these units are not going to scoff at the loss of 5-10% down the way that some others would. They will however get a bit deterred at all of the signs that say this project is a no go. Its a bad investment, no matter how you look at it.

I know I will piss off a lot of people with this next comment, but at the time,Tampa as a city center was not ready for this project. Its size and scope was way too grand. That said, I would love to see it get built, and I also believe that if it does it could be very successful. Unfortunately, its just not looking good.

I know I will piss off a lot of people with this next comment, but at the time,Tampa as a city center was not ready for this project. Its size and scope was way too grand..

If that were the case, they would have not sold the number of units they did. The fact that this project may or may not be in jeopardy has nothing to do with Tampa as a city center not being ready for it. It has to do with a number of different factors including possible mismanagement, the insane escalation of construction costs, unforseen environmental factors, and probably a whole slew of other issues that none of us even know about. This same situation could and has been played out in many cities a lot bigger than Tampa.

While I tend to agree that rising construction costs have contributed quite a bit, I still don't believe that Tampa was prepared at the time for a Trump Tower which would become a new tallest. Clearly neither did Trump.

While I tend to agree that rising construction costs have contributed quite a bit, I still don't believe that Tampa was prepared at the time for a Trump Tower which would become a new tallest. Clearly neither did Trump.

Don't believe the hype when it comes to the presale numbers. A project that has 80% presales finds its money regardless.

While I tend to agree that rising construction costs have contributed quite a bit, I still don't believe that Tampa was prepared at the time for a Trump Tower which would become a new tallest. Clearly neither did Trump.

Don't believe the hype when it comes to the presale numbers. A project that has 80% presales finds its money regardless.

Obviously Trump believed in the project or else he would not have entered into this agreement. And as far as the presale numbers - do you have some information that the rest of us have not heard about?

If you think about it, what kind of agreement was it? Put your name on a project. It cost him absolutely nothing, simply becasue of his last name. Now he comes through with all this bravado, talking about how he can do it if he wanted, no problem. Where's he at?

Over a year ago I posted that this project was having problems. We were originally approached about doing the tower and politely said, "No." The handwriting was on the wall years ago.

The moment they hit presale requirements they should have received their loan and it didn't happen. Now they're at 80% and still can't get the money? You give me a tower project in Orlando at 80% presales, I'll pour your foundation tomorrow.

Where is the G.C.? SimDag (whoever they are) is soliciting bids from contractors but they clearly cant secure the financing to cover the bid numbers they are receiving. This clearly illustrates the fact that the scope of the project is too large, whether that be too large for the developer or for the city, somewhere along the line there is a disconnect. I just spent the last six months going through the same issues here in Orlando with a tower (bad orginal bid, escalation, financing). That project is now going vertical.

Dont get me wrong, I hope it gets built. But at the same time, I thank God daily that we passed on the opportunity to do it.

^ It may be that the financing issue is the deal breaker right now, but my first inclination was that Trump has standards that he requires in order to associate his name with the project, and those standards take many of the institutions willing to provide financing and many GC's out of contention or make them unwilling to participate under those conditions. His bravado has nothing to do with it. His participation alone demonstrates that Tampa and the Bay area in general is ready for a tower of this magnitude.

bump

I hope your right. Guess we'll have to wait and see if he breaks out the checkbook. Lets just hope that they don"t V.E. the hell out of the tower.

This is from Wikipedia:

"Located in downtown Tampa visible from the end of Bayshore Boulevard and Tampa General Hospital on the Hillsborough River waterline. Ground has been broken on Trump Tower Tampa as of 3/2/2006 currently foundation footings are being drilled. The current estimated completion date is December 2008. Speculators account for 80% of preconstruction deposits."

Damn speculators! Is any of this condo shit in Tampa for REAL residents?

^I don't believe much of anything posted on Wiki... Certainly not sales numbers for a condo...

Isin't it mostly information contributed by its readers? That's kind of like getting your scraper' information from Emporis.

My personal speculation is they are financially upside down on the whole damn thing.


Donald Trump steps up in all his glory and says that "he can pay for it out of his back pocket." Sounds too much like one of those things that you say when you've been drinking too much and you just start spouting off.

I agree that he probably could pay for it out of pocket- but at the same time he's a business man, and he's not going to pay for anything without seeing a return on his investment. If things were as rosy as they would have everyone believe then the local group would not be having the contractor and financing problems they are obviously having. Contractors don’t mind working for- and Banks don’t mind lending to- a developer that has adequate pre-sales and a workable budget.


O.K., wheres it at? Escalation isin't showing any signs of stoping. Right now on average we are seeing a 2-3% increase every month in costs on the most basic of materials, with others like steel and copper nearly doubling that number.

Very true. This- plus all the unforeseen costs- have probably pushed this thing so far over budget they can’t see daylight. Why do you think they pulled their stunt with Turner in the first place? What happens if the sum of the presale contracts plus what they feel they could reasonably expect to net from the unsold units is not even enough to cover the nut of construction costs?


SimDag passed on $40 million dollars onto perspective buyers and I have a feeling that a good percentage of them told them to respectively "shove it up there ass."

I think the exact opposite. I think they mostly bought into it and signed hard sales contracts. I think the real problem is they should have asked for $140 million when they had the chance. And meanwhile was all the site work being funded with the deposit revenue? I would love to know their hard costs just to date.


I know I will piss off a lot of people with this next comment, but at the time,Tampa as a city center was not ready for this project. Its size and scope was way too grand.

I don’t buy this at all- why too grand? Because it’s tall and has a big “T” on the marquee? As for amenities, it’s really no nicer than many of the other condo’s well under way here- unless you just think Tampa is really too primitive for ANY of the recent development in general. As for Trump, at least the portion I (was) involved with was already V.E.’d to death.


That said, I would love to see it get built, and I also believe that if it does it could be very successful.

I would love to see it get built as well- but not at the expense of local contractors and/or subcontractors who could be really hurt in the process if the thing somehow tanked later on during construction. The company I was with who was working on the project has, I think wisely, chosen to back away from it now.


Unfortunately, its just not looking good

I’ll give you that one. ;-)

So basically the next thing you may see in the news is "TRUMP TOWER CANCELLED." , and if that's the case I for one will not be surprised. They should have tried this Trump idea five or ten years ago and maybe it would be built today. Even if it does get built it will probably be half empty anyway just like a lot of the other buildings, whether office or residential in DT.

I don't see why all the negativity is being voiced. Anyone with half a brain could see that this project has been in trouble for the last year.

The St. Pete Times Article on 8/31 (see: http://www.sptimes.com/2006/08/31/B...in_to_hel.shtml) is clearly good news.

It seems pretty simple to me. Trump will investigate this project, if it is economically worth while he will push it forward. If not he will let it die. This is clearly progress. It was floundering in the hands of SimDag.

The project may very well not be economically feasable - If so let it die. Either way we will have some resolution in the next few months rather then being in limbo.

Any speculation by anyone who doesn't have access to the numbers is just speculation. The good news is that a professional with a lot more experience then SimDag is looking into it and will determine the next course of action.

^ Well stated MFI.

YOu forget that Trump has a brand to protect. He cannot have projects with his name of them not getting built (unless he wins a big money lawsuit). I am not so worried. It will most likely get built - though it will take a while (you also can't overestimate the amount of negativity that the St. PEte Times would like to create in project in Tampa)

Not to get too far off topic, but... aw hell, there's nothing else to talk about in Djibouti.

For the sake of speculation, say the tower is cancelled. A certain number of caissons are sunk to a certain depth, with, presumably, more needed to support a tower. I don't know much about engineering: could another developer a decade hence come in and propose a different tower on the same site and not have to dig out and resink the caissons? Trump has a good site; how much would a cancellation affect the site's prospects for future development?

Not to get too far off topic, but... aw hell, there's nothing else to talk about in Djibouti.

For the sake of speculation, say the tower is cancelled. A certain number of caissons are sunk to a certain depth, with, presumably, more needed to support a tower. I don't know much about engineering: could another developer a decade hence come in and propose a different tower on the same site and not have to dig out and resink the caissons? Trump has a good site; how much would a cancellation affect the site's prospects for future development?


It would be possible to build something else on the caissons.

During the last RE bubble (early 90s) it was not unusual for condo and office towers to be stopped mid-construction and sit unfinished for years before someone decided to fund their completion, which is likely what will happen with the Trump Tower.

There was never a real market for the number of luxury condos build in Tampa, it was based purely on speculative investing. The Trump Tower came way, way too late to the party.

Never mind the fact that the project was marketed outside of Tampa and is repotedly mostly sold out.

Never mind the fact that the project was marketed outside of Tampa and is repotedly mostly sold out.

Yes. EXACTLY. Marketed outside of Tampa.

Who the hell buys a condo in Tampa and doesn't live there? Speculative investors.

The pre-construction sales were offered slightly before the peak. Most of the people who put down deposits are now praying the damn thing doesn't get built.

Oooooo ! 'Speculative inverstors' ! Scary!

Most of the people who put down deposits are now praying the damn thing doesn't get built.

Based on this statement, you personally spoke with every person who put down a deposit. Wow!

Speculators are speculators. If they stick with the project they are still buying a unit. So its a sale whether they live there or not.For most of us these units are out of reach (starting at $875k). So does it really matter who is actually buying? No.

If the project goes sales will pick up. Once the building goes vertical people will be more willing to buy. A lot of potential buyers are scared away at the moment. People want to see it before they buy right now. Particularly with all the bad press they have been getting.

Will it go? I dont know. I hope so. But thats all in the hands of the developer.

Speculators are speculators. If they stick with the project they are still buying a unit. So its a sale whether they live there or not.For most of us these units are out of reach (starting at $875k). So does it really matter who is actually buying? No.

If the project goes sales will pick up. Once the building goes vertical people will be more willing to buy. A lot of potential buyers are scared away at the moment. People want to see it before they buy right now. Particularly with all the bad press they have been getting.

Will it go? I dont know. I hope so. But thats all in the hands of the developer.

No, no one has actually "bought" anything. They have put down a deposit to buy a unit when it gets built at an agreed upon price. If the actual value of their condo when built is less than what they agreed to pay (very likely given the tanking market), then it might make fiscal sense to forfeit the deposit and refuse to buy. This is both for speculators and people who intend to occupy the condo. The speculators will not be able to sell for a profit. The occupiers will not be able to sell their current homes for inflated bubble prices.

However. I have no idea what happens to the deposit if the condo is never built. Maybe they get it back, maybe they don't.

Its not just the Trump Tower, its happening elsewhere in FL and the country.

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/business/15210856.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

Elsewhere I've read that the project is almost sold out.

No, no one has actually "bought" anything. They have put down a deposit to buy a unit when it gets built at an agreed upon price.

The occupiers will not be able to sell their current homes for inflated bubble prices.

However. I have no idea what happens to the deposit if the condo is never built. Maybe they get it back, maybe they don't.


I didn't mean to imply that they had purchased a unit. Whether a speculator closes on their unit or not is a totally different story. There is a good chance that many of them wont. But when searching for financing the banks look at how many units have a deposit down on them. They usually want 75% of the units "sold".

Being that this is a "uber-luxury" condo project and that units start at $875k the people purchasing these units are probably not worried about selling there current homes in order to fund their condos. Most of these people (think Yankee baseball players, Devil Rays, and Bucaneer players) have ample cash.

If a person decides to back out of their deal they lose their deposit. If the proect doesnt go then they should get their money refunded (depends on how contract is written.)

Has anyone been by Trump on the river lately???

What is the latest??

Nothing. No good and no bad.

Still drilling test borings. Was told that these should be done in the next week or so. With foundation redesign to follow. Supposedly it should be about a month or so before caissons start again. But as there hasnt been any more information on financing for the project I would be very surprised if that happens.

Caissons were only supposed to pull off for 'about a month' to begin with- it's been two months and they are still 'about a month' out. Too funny.

So glad I am long gone from that thing.

Lagging Trump Tower gets cash
Faced with soil instability, elusive lenders and construction overruns, the developer sheds its Tampa office.

TAMPA - Needing millions of dollars to revive its stalled Trump Tower Tampa condominium project, developer SimDag LLC has sold off one of its chief assets: its headquarters building in downtown Tampa.

Tampa investment banker Robert Moreyra paid SimDag $6-million for the CapTrust Building at 102 W. Whiting St.

But in the deal that closed Aug. 18, SimDag reserved the right to repurchase the property within five years if its financial fortunes improve.

The sales price was $280,000 less than SimDag's partners paid for the six-story office building in 2003, according to the Hillsborough County Property Appraisers office.

Neither Moreyra, president of Atlantic American Capital Advisors, nor SimDag chief executive Frank Dagostino returned calls from the St. Petersburg Times.

The CapTrust Building is sandwiched between a city park to the north and the Trump Tower site to the south.

SimDag has spent nearly two years trying to launch Trump, a 52-story skyscraper that would be the tallest in west Florida.

The luxurious riverfront address at 111 S Ashley Drive would include 192 units costing about $700,000 to $6.2-million. SimDag acquired the name in a licensing deal with New York real estate tycoon Donald Trump.

Developers say they've collected nonrefundable deposits on 80 percent of the units, but construction on the building foundation has visibly slackened.

"When they broke ground two or three months ago, there were probably 30-plus people working on the site. Now some mornings I come out and the gates are locked," said Eric Bailey, an executive with CapTrust Financial Advisors, the company for which the recently sold office building is named.

Finding financing for what could be a landmark tower has proved elusive as lenders scurry from the slumping housing market.

Construction overruns, mostly for steel and concrete, forced SimDag to hit depositors up for millions of extra dollars last winter.

SimDag shed its general contractor, Turner Construction Co., in March and was slapped with a lien for failing to pay Turner $1.2-million.

And in August came word that soil instability would prolong installation of underground steel-and-concrete pilings on the 1.5-acre building site, pushing the grand opening date from 2008 to 2009.

In August the Trump Organization announced it would wield its clout in the lending community to help SimDag negotiate a $200-million construction loan for the tower.

Executives in Trump's New York offices could not be reached Wednesday for comment.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/10/12/Business/Lagging_Trump_Tower_g.shtml

Well that's good new I guess. SimDag is going all in on this one, which shows there is some faith, especially since Trump is helping out. I wonder what will happen to CapTrust building?

All in, or getting the hell out of town?

All in, or getting the hell out of town?

Good point. Just from reading the article, I get the impression that the Times is just making the assumption that SimDag has sold this building to assist in funding of the trump building. It doesn't sound like anyone has actually confirmed this assumption.

Speculation had it that the CapTrust building was going to get torn down once TTT was complete and a hotel or office space (approx 30+- floors) was to be built. I believe at one point there was to be a bridge connecting the two buildings.
But based on terrible soils conditions at TTT I would be very surprised if this happened. But hey, if you have deep pockets you never know.
Note that SimDag has retained the right to repurchase the building. So the demolition idea may still be floating around.

By Shannon Behnken
The Tampa Tribune

The developer of Trump Tower Tampa says it plans to resume construction in January and now expects the building to be finished by summer, 2009.

But that may not be enough to satisfy The Donald.

Donald Trump, who licensed his name to the group, said in an interview that he is unsure the developer will finish the project and still wants to take it over.

“”The difficulty is they have great confidence they can pull it off,’’ Trump said in a telephone interview. “This is always the difficult part in having partners in something you could pull off easily yourself.’’

Frank Dagostiono, SimDag’s chief executive officer, and Bob Lyons, its president,, said they have no doubt that Trump Tower Tampa will be built by their company.

“”I’m 100 percent confident,’’ Dagostino said.

Work at the riverfront site, at 111 S. Ashley Drive, halted last month after workers found soil instability beneath the building site. SimDag executives said they were to receive an engineering report today detailing what needs to be done to make sure the weight of the massive structure is properly supported.

SimDag paid Trump millions in a licensing agreement but has yet to secure financing to build the $235 million residential condo.


http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/newswire/comments/trump_dissatisfied_with_tower_progress/

I'll be happy when/if they start construction. It's good they still have confidence, but Trump might be right. SimDag might have to much confidence. I hope Trump takes over and gets the damn thing done. SimDag,..... you're fired! lol
http://www.madisonavenuejournal.com/images/trump2.jpg

BTW, it would've been nice for SimDag to get that engineering report before they estimate construction for January.

By Shannon Behnken
The Tampa Tribune

The developer of Trump Tower Tampa says it plans to resume construction in January and now expects the building to be finished by summer, 2009.

But that may not be enough to satisfy The Donald.

Donald Trump, who licensed his name to the group, said in an interview that he is unsure the developer will finish the project and still wants to take it over.

“”The difficulty is they have great confidence they can pull it off,’’ Trump said in a telephone interview. “This is always the difficult part in having partners in something you could pull off easily yourself.’’

Frank Dagostiono, SimDag’s chief executive officer, and Bob Lyons, its president,, said they have no doubt that Trump Tower Tampa will be built by their company.

“”I’m 100 percent confident,’’ Dagostino said.

Work at the riverfront site, at 111 S. Ashley Drive, halted last month after workers found soil instability beneath the building site. SimDag executives said they were to receive an engineering report today detailing what needs to be done to make sure the weight of the massive structure is properly supported.

SimDag paid Trump millions in a licensing agreement but has yet to secure financing to build the $235 million residential condo.


http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/newswire/comments/trump_dissatisfied_with_tower_progress/

Published proof that the "Wait until November!" posts on the other thread are total and utter bullshit.

lol I knew there was a reason that this forum was brought back to life. I say tear down the six-story Captrust building and put up the 30 +- story building.

Published proof that the "Wait until November!" posts on the other thread are total and utter bullshit.
You got that right...

Best news I've heard in awhile on TTT.

I wanted to bump this to maybe give it some good luck, as we head into November and December.. I have a fealing this might go vertical soon..

And Venu might have some impact on this.. In a good way though..

^^ According to an interview with Frank Dagostino (the "dag" in SimDag) on Action 28, before they even consider going vertical the remaining soil work will take up to 6 mos. to complete. He suggested early April at best.

Hang in there, guys. . .

Jesus Christ...I can not believe that this project is taking soooooo long.

Realistically, Venu could be completed before TTT. ;)

I know! I think that Venu will look better in the skyscraper than anything proposed in this area and dare I say in the Southeast.

^^^ See, I agree (in small part) about it looking better than anything proposed. Especially Trump Tower Tampa in comparison.

Venu compliments the CBD core much more than a heavy concrete nuevo-med-style condo tower that you'd expect in Miami or Las Vegas. Some may see this as "just a box" but from everyone's comments -- it's a better box than what we're used to.

Maybe they meant November 2007 for TTT starting. :)

Honestly, I don't see why so many are gaga over this tower. I guess I just haven't seen a clean enough rendering to convince me. :(

The ones I've see are skewed or blurry. For example, in the renderings I've seen, the "beercan" tower looks taller and skinnier than it actually is. I guess I'm not quite ready to join the "OMG it the best project in Fl." camp just yet.

I hope you guys are correct though. :)

It was the variety of angles and views in the video that sold me.

Maybe they meant November 2007 for TTT starting. :)

Or perhaps they misspelled Never 2007?

Realistically, Venu could be completed before TTT. ;)

Not if you knew how tedious and complex the foundation work for Venu will be...

As an even more slender tower which will be almost as tall, Venu will inevitably have just as complex a foundation... On top of dealing with a crappy seawall and porous bedrock like TTT has to, Venu will also have the 'joy' of dealing with demolishing and removing the existing office building and foundation structure, plus being right on top of the foundation for the Kennedy St Drawbridge, as well as the Riverside Hotel...

^^Indeed. The foundation for Venu will be more like a caisson wall on Kennedy and Ashley. I still really hopr trump gets built, it would be a major boost for the area and it would spreas the skyline and the people South along the river, almost to the convention center if it's not already there.

Or perhaps they misspelled Never 2007?
Do I have a since, you might not what TTT to get built here??

Trump Tower will be built eventually. Trump will pay for the damn thing himself just to keep from being seen as a failure. Besides, Frank D's. wife has already picked out the drapes for their penthouse... :)

Do I have a since, you might not what TTT to get built here??
No, in fact its just the opposite. I was joking about the relative similarities in spelling between Never and November. Nothing kills a bad joke like explaining it.

^Don't worry, I laughed... at his misspelled reply too... Hope that was on purpose!

I know! I think that Venu will look better in the skyscraper than anything proposed in this area and dare I say in the Southeast.

I'm not so sure about the Southeast. Actually the Place Phase 2 might be a better looking project if you look at just the arcitecture. However Venu does have nearly a 200 ft. adavantage as far as height. There are also several projects in Miami that are impressive. (Flatiron, Capitol Towers are gorgeous projects)

Can I have sites for these?

At this point I give the nod to The Place Phase II. It's a beautiful project.

I really hope that Sirdar offers up a few more projects here in Tampa. I suspect our city council would welcome him with open arms. :)

Are there any updated pictures with a full view of the project?

Can I have sites for these?

I just PM'd those to you...

Are there any updated pictures with a full view of the project?

Could you be specific on what project your talking about? Unfortunatley TTT, Venu, and Place are all being discussed in this thread. Plus, if there were any pictures they'd probaly be posted.
:)

Ohh sorry, I was talking about full views of The Place 2

Site was locked up and dead at 9:30 am today.

On the 11 o'clock "ABC Action News", tonight, they stated that it was "confirmed" that the Trump Tower is on hold due to the ground not being 'stable' enough to support the building. The added reinforcements will increase costs by $6 million and cause a construction delay of 6 months -- making the opening date of the tower slide to June 2009.

ouch... How in the hell do projects even get approved without this being known?

And WHO would build in DT Tampa, a place known for shitty subsoil conditions, and not do a proper survey of those conditions?

Especially where the land is infill and river marsh . . well paved over, but still . . .

As long as we still get this built, which most likely it will.. With the delay we very well could have TTT and Venu rising at the same time..

Let's hope the people at Venu take all the right steps in there process of construction..l

^^It will be difficult to have them rising at the same time though because Venu's foundation work I would think would be more trickey then TTT's.

Also it is in a busier area than TTT, road wise (corner of Ashley and Kennedy).

does anyone know if Rivergate, BoA, or Amsouth had the same issues with their foundations???

good tower

The foundation is their current problem. If they did not do a HUD filing they only have two years to deliver. This is not going to happen and could open the door for investors to get out whole. Perhaps this is the root cause of the financing "issue" confronting SimDag. BTW I heard that their beach projects had all but shut down. Fact or fiction?

So I'm driving North on 275 this evening and right in front of me is the sweetest Roll Royce with a vanity plate "SIMDAG" on the back. Wonder who that was?

^^lmao

So I'm driving North on 275 this evening and right in front of me is the sweetest Roll Royce with a vanity plate "SIMDAG" on the back. Wonder who that was?

Remember, A dollar borrowed is a dollar earned.

Does anyone know if the lobby will be like the lobby of Trump Tower New York? For you that haven't been, it's walls are a peachy marble with bronze trim and there are pricy stores selling expensive pens and there is also a restraunt and a starbucks, all in an open 3 story room with a waterfall.

^Judging by the building's footprint, I don't think it will be quite that elaborate... IIRC it's supposed to have an integrated restaurant, but I don't know how it's laid out.

Does anyone know if the lobby will be like the lobby of Trump Tower New York? For you that haven't been, it's walls are a peachy marble with bronze trim and there are pricy stores selling expensive pens and there is also a restraunt and a starbucks, all in an open 3 story room with a waterfall.

It should be classy, sans the peachy marble and the New York "glitz". Yes, I was being sarcastic when I emphasized glitz. I'd expect an upscale Floridian theme, with marble flooring, elegant lighting fixtures, wooden furniture, and perhaps a palm tree motif. I'm calling it now. :lol:

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2006/11/20/daily9.html?jst=b_ln_hl

PCL reported as builder of Trump Tower Tampa
Tampa Bay Business Journal - 2:51 PM EST Monday
by Michael Hinman

Trump Tower Tampa has a new general contractor, but one wouldn't know by asking the 52-story tower's developer, SimDag.

The Alberta-based PCL has reportedly been named the general contractor for the $260 million project long planned for South Ashley Drive in downtown Tampa.

News of PCL's attachment to the project came indirectly through a press release issued Monday by Tampa-based DLR Consulting Group. The release intended to announce a partnership between DLR and Trump Tower Tampa to help the project - which has struggled to get out of the ground - realize available tax incentives that could mitigate costs of the project.

David Hooks, a spokesman for SimDag and Trump Tower Tampa, would not comment on the press release, only to say that an announcement on a general contractor is expected sometime next week.

PCL was not authorized to make any "announcements" about Trump Tower Tampa, said Terry Nobles, a spokesman for PCL. He deferred any questions to SimDag.

PCL was one of two companies said to be in the running to replace Turner Construction Co. last July in a story that appeared in the Tampa Bay Business Journal. Turner had left the project last spring, and later filed a $1.2 million construction lien against the project. Hooks said that SimDag is "on schedule" in making the payments to Turner to satisfy the lien.

Now, it appears that PCL Construction Services of Orlando will be responsible for the project. The company has several active projects, according to its Web site, including a 32-story mixed-use building called 55 West on the Esplanade to be built on half a city block on Church Street near downtown Orlando. The structure will have more than 400 condominium units as well as a 12-story parking garage.

The Tampa affiliate of PCL, PCL Civil Constructors Inc., which takes on mostly road and bridge projects, has received some press over the last couple of years for its work on the Leroy Selmon Crosstown Expressway as well as Clearwater's Memorial Causeway Bridge on state Route 60.

Cracking was found in some of the support pillars of the Causeway bridge, while a portion of the new Crosstown overpass collapsed during construction in April 2004.

PCL Civil Constructors also built the Suncoast Parkway, the extension of the Veterans Expressway toll road from northern Hillsborough County into Citrus County.

A thin reed - but it something, I guess

Be interesting how things play out now with this happening. So, this will be there first skyscraper project that they will work on? Great first oppurtunity they have. If they can pull this off, then they may have a brighter future down the road.

Also, welcome to the boards MeepMeep! :wave:

SimDag sells Trump Tower project to Orlando equity firm
Tampa Bay Business Journal - 4:26 PM EST Tuesdayby Michael Hinman
Whether it actually gets built or not, the fate of Trump Tower Tampa is no longer under the control of SimDag LLC.

Mirabilis Ventures Inc., an Orlando-based private equity firm, is buying out both Trump Tower Tampa and Clearwater's Antigua Bay Yacht Club among other projects originally developed by SimDag. Trump Tower itself will be by far the largest real estate project Mirabilis has ever done, but one company officials says they are confident it can come together.

"They needed some help," said Woody Johnson, executive vice president at Mirabilis of SimDag. "The team that started it, the SimDag guys, are a very competent group of people, but they had a lot going on. It's created some problems, and the financing wasn't as expected."

Mirabilis to take on financing woes
Turner Construction Co., the original general contractor for both Trump Tower and Antigua Bay, filed construction liens against the two projects last June demanding nearly $3.5 million in unpaid compensation. David Hooks, a spokesman for the project, said SimDag was "on schedule" in paying off the total due on the liens, but that they remained filed against the projects.

Mirabilis plans to immediately resolve all the existing liens against the property, and move forward with the existing plans to build a 52-story luxury condominium tower in downtown Tampa, Johnson said. Outside of the liens, Trump Tower has struggled to complete its foundation after ground soil issues were discovered, and SimDag has never been able to announce financing for the project.

"People fear the unknown, and really, it's important for the health of the project for everybody to know Mirabilis Ventures is in the driver's seat," Johnson said. "We can get the financing."

Mirabilis plans to announce the acquisition of Trump Tower and Antigua Bay as early as Wednesday afternoon, Johnson said. While the company is not acquiring SimDag itself, Mirabilis is looking at about a dozen other SimDag developments, and may acquire a vast majority of them.

"Our focus to date has been in the staffing industry," Johnson said. "We've been building construction and development teams here, and we have the players in place. For us, it's like throwing a switch. We're a private equity fund worth hundreds of millions of dollars with billions of dollars in revenue. We're a powerhouse that has been carefully planning out our next move."

Calls to SimDag for comment were referred to Mirabilis.

Trump Tower to remain unchanged
Funding for Trump Tower Tampa will continue to be sought mostly from third party lenders, Johnson said. There are no plans to change the design or even the construction schedule of the tower, expected to be complete by June 2009 for $260 million.

The company is not worried about continued speculation that the tower will not be built.

"The interest was there right from the start for the sales getting the units sold," Johnson said. "They just needed to get it completed."

Mirabilis' previous real estate work has been focused mostly on condominium conversions in Orlando, but has been involved in Tampa Bay area companies as well. Last April, Mirabilis helped Community Health Solutions of America in St. Petersburg, which Mirabilis had a 50 percent stake in, through its Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing. Johnson at the time said Mirabilis would work with the creditors to pay off some $3.7 million to creditors to keep the company's contracts in place and prevent it from closing its doors.

Hooks, who has been the project spokesman since the project was announced in January 2005, said he was unaware of Mirabilis' acquisition.

Johnson said it was unclear whether or not recently reported agreements between SimDag and companies like DLR Consulting and PCL Constructors Inc., would be maintained through the acquisition. Tampa-based DLR announced Tuesday that it would help SimDag realize tax incentives for its Trump Tower project, while at the same time announcing PCL as the new general contractor for the site. SimDag executives refused to comment on the PCL news Monday, saying that an announcement would be made next week.

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2006/11/20/daily19.html?t=printable

Imagine the irony.

what irony?

Not sure either.

It was a bad joke really.

We can't build over 440' and a company from here is lending assistance on Tampas new tallest.

Well shit, I just hope that this company can get this damn building built.

It's over, folks. Stop with the "hope" and "wish" posts, cuz this isn't going to happen. Trump will abandon the project shortly, methinks, and that will be that.

This is dead. THe death certificate just hasn't been signed yet. Maybe I'll be wrong, but this project is going no where and holding out hope it goes somewhere is starting to sound like holding out hope Tampa will get the 2008 Republican National Convention...

Why would Donald Trump abandon the project? He's already been paid for the use of his name.

Mirabilis doesn't appear to be a veteran tower builder, but they do initially appear to have the assets to at least take care of debts on the project and pick up financing.

It was a bad joke really.

We can't build over 440' and a company from here is lending assistance on Tampas new tallest.

What's the big deal? Tampa has developers from Miami, Atlanta and other areas developing in the Bay area market. Signs of a healthy market if you ask me. Gloating over the prospect of a builder from your area building the tallest on the west coast is the ironic part - they can't develop anyhting like this in Orlando.

Why would Donald Trump abandon the project? He's already been paid for the use of his name.

A project that is sullying his name. It's a project not going anywhere. It's a high end condo project in a region with an ice cold real estate market.

What reason does he have to keep it? Does he want to be involved with a company that has no reputation as a Skyscraper builder? How much does he want his name and reputation dragged through the mud of this one?

With the latest news, I'm wondering if Frank Dagostino (and family) still plan on moving into their selected condo unit. hummmm -- probably not.

my gut tells me that Trummmmmmp Tower Tampa will still be built sometime before the end of this century. ;)

Trump is definitly interested in doing this project. Trump has offered to buy out the project. The market is not Ice cold for niche projects such as this. Downtown Tampa has a shortage of condos and these will have no problem selling. We have tons of athletes and millionaires in this community who have been waiting for something like this.

Trump is definitly interested in doing this project. Trump has offered to buy out the project.

Source? Because that sounds like utter BS. If he or his companies have offered to buy out SimDag in the past, then why has Mirabalis become involved?


The market is not Ice cold for niche projects such as this.

The niche is ultra-high end condominiums. Look around at the projects that have been slated throughout the area that are ultra-high end and you will find a list of projects that are on hold or are dead because of the market. How many stories have there been the last few days about how Clearwater Beach's Condo/Condo-Hotel boom went bust? Same "niche" market, same words: ice cold.


Downtown Tampa has a shortage of condos and these will have no problem selling. We have tons of athletes and millionaires in this community who have been waiting for something like this.

How do you come to the conclusion that Tampa has a SHORTAGE of downtown condo space when there was no market to begin with? Because we don't think there are enough towers and that all the buildings going up happen to be condo projects? There have been stories in the Tribune in the past about how real estate speculators had bought several dozen condos in towers going up on Bayshore, Harbor Island and elsewhere in the city and how these speculators have had trouble selling the places once they were completed... That doesn't sound like a hot, niche market.

How do you come to the conclusion that an athlete who can afford a spread that actually has a yard and ample floor space for his family would want to live in a condo tower instead? Are you aware of the ultra rich suburbs through Hillsorough and Pinellas counties that already cater to these people? The fact that some of these houses in the suburbs have direct water access for their own watercraft and such? Ample garage space, better schools for there kids, etc?

Most who put money down on Trump Tower Tampa were those who were investing in the name -- people who would not be living and working in Tampa but who have the money to spend and who want to be associated with Trump. It's not like Vinny Lecavalier and Rocco Baldelli were dying for bachelor pads in the building.

Source- The Tampa tribune, not going to go looking through archives but it is in there

The niche is ultra-high end condominiums, there are no condos in the price range of Trump Tower so yes it is a niche market for ultra rich, just like skypoint is a niche for middle class. The condos that are priced in the middle are the units that are going to be tough to sell.

ALL THE UNITS IN TRUMP TOWER THAT WERE MADE AVAILABLE BY THE DEVELOPER HAVE BEEN BOUGHT, AND YES SOME OF THEM ARE PRO BASEBALL PLAYERS... A NEW YORK YANKEE DOWN FOR SPRING TRAINING DOES NOT NEED A SPRAWLING ESTATE IN TAMPA.

Anyway, Try to look on the bright side, it is not that serious. I actually think the VENU project has a much better design. Maybe Donald can talk with the VENU people and work something out!!

Have a Happy Thanksgiving!!

here is the article about the buy out offer

Trump Tower Has New Problem
Skip directly to the full story.
By SHANNON BEHNKEN The Tampa Tribune

Published: Aug 29, 2006

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TAMPA - The developer installing caissons to support the 52-story Trump Tower Tampa condominium has discovered it will need to add more caissons and sink them much deeper into the ground.

SimDag LLC, the Tampa-based developer, told a city inspector it found a "subsurface anomaly" and will bore as deep as 250 feet to make sure the massive riverfront tower is supported, the inspector wrote in a two-paragraph e-mail to his boss last week.

"It's really a normal thing," said Housh Ghovaee, chief executive of Clearwater-based Northside Engineering Services Inc., one of the companies working on the project. "You have to do this kind of testing, and then you design according to those results."

Ghovaee said it is not uncommon to find ground instability when building a 600-foot high-rise. "You test the ground in one location and get one result, then you test in another spot and get a different result."

SimDag spokesman David Hookswould not comment on the irregularity but said letters are being mailed to "buyers and prospects" to "give them news from us."

This is just the latest complication for the tower, unveiledin January 2005 and presented as the centerpiece of Tampa's downtownredevelopment. SimDag confirmed Aug. 18 that it does not yet have construction financing and that work at the site has slowed.

The developer has parted ways with at least two contractors and passed along at least $40 million in increased construction costs to buyers. It has been without a general contractor since it dismissedDallas-based Turner Construction Co. in April.

Adding to the pressure, Donald Trump told The Tampa Tribune last week that he was troubled by the slow progress and is prepared to buy out SimDag's interest and construct the tower himself.

"I could build that [tower] out of my back pocket," Trump said.

Hooks would not say Monday whether SimDag was considering selling its interest to Trump.

Trump also revealed for the first time last week that the Tampa project is among the 40 percent of his 25 worldwide projects that are licensing deals. He said developers paid him an undisclosed amount to use his name. He will also get a percentage of the sales, he said.

The added cost of installing additional caissons could especially hurt the developer now. Buyers converted to hard contract, developers said in February. At the time, developers went back to buyers - who had only reservations - for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Original prices ranged from $700,000 to $6 million.

Now, with firm deposits and contracts in hand, SimDag may find that asking buyers for more money would be a lot trickier, banking experts say.

What building the tower will cost is unclear. It was announced as a $220 million project, but developers have mentioned estimates as high as $260 million. With the cost of steel and other construction materials rising, adding more caissons on the site possibly could add millions to the total cost.

When asked last week about adding caissons, Trump said ground instability is not a problem for him.

"Nobody knows about caissons more than me," he said. "All you have to do is make them a little heavier. It doesn't matter how unstable the land is."

The project's original completion date of late 2007 has been pushed back several times. The last date the developer cited was late 2008. Lenders who have financed other condo towers in Florida have said it takes at least three years to build a tower such as this one.

Jay Magner, who bought a unit on the 40th floor, said the developers told him last week that they are also going to add a concrete foundation to the site.

"It was my interpretation that the piece of land wasn't as solid as they had hoped," Magner said. "They're going to make it a good piece of land."

Reporter Shannon Behnken can be reached

I still think this will get done - more so given that they sold it - which makes it more likely in my opinion. May still fail, but I think it will happen

I figure, why would this equity firm buy out the project if it couldn't get the money lined up to build it?

Exactly, Banks will be interested in a high profile project

I figure, why would this equity firm buy out the project if it couldn't get the money lined up to build it?

Exactly, you could look at this as a sell by SimDag, which it is, but you also have to remember that someone on the other side of the equation bought the project and obviously plans to build it, or atleast something.

Exactly, Banks will be interested in a high profile project

Not necessarly, banks haven't been to interested in this project so far. There's more factors involved, like risk.

I still think it will get built, especially since Trump said in the article that he would to build the tower himself and that he could out of his own pocket.

Overall, this sounds good....

Donald Trumped On Tower
Skip directly to the full story.
By SHANNON BEHNKEN The Tampa Tribune

Published: Nov 23, 2006

TAMPA - The Donald has been Trumped on a project bearing his name.

The real estate mogul negotiated for months to buy out the local developer of the stalled Trump Tower Tampa and build the 52-story condominium himself. But in the end, an Orlando-based private equity firm was willing to pay more.

Mirabilis Ventures said Wednesday that it has a purchase agreement to acquire the $260 million proposed downtown development from Tampa-based SimDag LLC.

"Anybody would be thrilled at the chance to be involved in a project with the Trump name on it," said Woody Johnson, Mirabilis executive vice president. "This is a prime area in downtown Tampa, and that makes this an even better project."

In a telephone interview Wednesday, Trump said he is disappointed he did not get control of the project, but he is confident Mirabilis can pull it off.

"I guess I didn't offer [SimDag] enough money," Trump said. "Wouldn't it be bad if I paid them too much? That wouldn't be good for my image, would it?"

SimDag officials did not return calls for comment.

Construction Pushed Back
SimDag, which had a licensing agreement to use the Trump name, has struggled to get the tower off the ground. The project was announced nearly two years ago and has had construction pushed back numerous times. It remains without financing.

SimDag "needed a financial partner," Johnson said.

The company, led by Bob Lyons and Frank Dagostino, will stay involved as Mirabilis' development arm for the project, Johnson added.

Mirabilis' primary work is with human resource and staffing. Its real estate and development division has completed numerous office and apartment-to-condo conversion projects, but nothing of the Trump magnitude.

"We do things in a big way," Johnson said, noting the company has negotiated with SimDag for the past three months.

Mirabilis also announced Wednesday that it is buying SimDag's Antigua Bay Yacht Club in Clearwater and wants to purchase seven to nine more of SimDag's luxury condo developments.

Johnson said the partnership with SimDag is not a takeover, but "the individuals of SimDag will be assimilated into Mirabilis," for the Trump project and possibly other developments.

Financial terms of the agreements were not released.

Work at the riverfront site along Ashley Drive stopped in September when workers found soil instability beneath the building site. SimDag executives said last month that they had determined what needed to be done to ensure the weight of the structure would be supported. They said they expected to complete the building in summer 2009.

Johnson, of Mirabilis, said Wednesday that he thought that deadline was doable.

SimDag has parted ways with at least two contractors. Last year, the company passed on $40 million in construction increases to buyers with reservations to purchase units, originally priced at $700,000 to more than $6 million.

PCL Contractors, of Alberta, Canada, was announced as the new general contractor this week. Johnson said the SimDag buyout will not affect that agreement.

Financing In Negotiations
As for financing, Johnson said Mirabilis "is in active negotiations with three very well known national and international organizations," and expects to make an announcement soon.

Trump has publicly expressed frustration about Trump Tower Tampa's delays. Johnson said his company wants an "in-depth relationship" with Trump. "I'm sure this is a sigh of relief for him, and it's very exciting for us."

http://www.tbo.com/news/money/MGB5F4YHUUE.html

What's the big deal? Tampa has developers from Miami, Atlanta and other areas developing in the Bay area market. Signs of a healthy market if you ask me. Gloating over the prospect of a builder from your area building the tallest on the west coast is the ironic part - they can't develop anyhting like this in Orlando.
Gloating? I think perhaps you misunderstood the context in which I was making my statement. In fact we were both pointing out the same irony. Kind of ironic :)

^ok, now that's funny.

I guess the Business Journal is all Trump, all the time, now. :banana:

Earlier this week, they talked about PCL being the gc, the next day they were the first to report the Mirabilis buyout.

Today's issue (i cant find it online yet) reports that there is a new construction lien on the property, this time for 2-million from the company doing the caissons.

of course...it would be too convenient for all parties to agree.

Mirabilis Ventures said Wednesday that it has a purchase agreement to acquire the $260 million proposed downtown development from Tampa-based SimDag LLC.


This should clear up any doubts about the intentions of Mirabilis.

Awesome news

Noticed today that a Trump Tower sign has been placed on the lot next to Newks. I drive by there almost everyday and this is the first time I have noticed that sign. It is still the old SimDag sign with the Ashley address on it.... Looks like they added "Still Coming" to the sign though.

my mind is running wild......they could never get FAA approval for that lot, could they?

Very interesting. Though the existing location allows for the most visibility in the skyline I would imagine that they would not want to move towards channelside. That being said I have always been critical of the lot size for the Trump Tower.

SimDag LLC is/was the developer for the "Plaza Channelside" project (another that nobody's heard a word about for well over a year) which is the lot next to Newks.

According to the Tampa Tribune's Shannon Behnken, Mirabilis Ventures is looking to purchase between seven to nine other development projects from SimDag. I wonder if SimDag sold that property/project to Mirabilis Ventures as well? That would be great news.

I doubt that they are even considering moving Trump Tower to another location, but I don't see the Plaza Channelside breaking ground this decade either. Who knows. . .

Plaza Channelside was to replace Newk's, not be built next to it.

So far as I've heard, the project is dead/mothballed until things perk up a bit.

Plaza Channelside was to replace Newk's, not be built next to it.

So far as I've heard, the project is dead/mothballed until things perk up a bit.

Yes. We are talking about the same parcel. The TTT sign was on the S.W. corner of the Newk's lot which is triangular. I think they use it for parking during hockey games.

Well smack me in the ass and call me Sunday....

^^ Ok. Sunday it is!

:D lol

that sign has been there for a little while now. I think they are going to open the sales center at the location and nothing else. The cap one building was sold by simdag so maybe they needed to move the sales office as well

Unless they sell the project, their offices may become part of the Newks project. Adding the office space would help the project get built.

Okay great news I went to the Trump Tower site and the contact us number if anyone does not believe me it is 813-225-2070, talked to the sales rep over there Toni Everett it is a woman.. She said that they did the final test on the patch of ciasson that was defected and she said sales are still going tremendously.. In fact they only have 25 units left.. She told me how the HI Plaza-Bellamy-and Alagon are all sold out as she is affiliated with those projects also.. I told her I was from Tampa and was excited about the possibility that we could have 3---- 50 stories going up all at the same time.. She agreed and said the riverwalk will come to fruition as well as boat cabs and extended trolley service..

So for those that doubt this project would go vertical, you can rest now... Per her she said the latest would be 2 months , but was also optimistic it could be in as littlte as 6 weeeks..

Okay great news I went to the Trump Tower site and the contact us number if anyone does not believe me it is 813-225-2070, talked to the sales rep over there Tony Everett it is a woman.. She said that they did the final test on the patch of ciasson that was defected and she said sales are still going tremendously.. In fact they only have 25 units left.. She told me how the HI Plaza-Bellamy-and Alagon are all sold out as she is affiliated with those projects also.. I told her I was from Tampa and was excited about the possibility that we could have 3---- 50 stories going up all at the same time.. She agreed and said the riverwalk will come to fruition as well as boat cabs and extended trolley service..

So for those that doubt this project would go vertical, you can rest now... Per her she said the latest would be 2 months , but was also optimistic it could be in as littlte as 6 weeeks..
Thanks for doing that. I knew this wasn't going to be a failure although some on here did.

^^ Certainly appears that sales rep. was the perfect career choice for Ms. Everett.

Well, while I actually do think it is more likely to eventually get built than not, I would caution against believing all the info from a realtor - like who is going to plop down money for a unit (and her commission) if she says the project is going to be strung out indefinitely

^^ Especially Tony Everett... LOL And Orlandonative is right on - it is the perfect career for her as she has made QUITE a living off of it.

I agree with Smiley that it will get built but not because anything your source says Tampa on the move

You didn't know Tony Everett is a woman? I hope you weren't talking to her directly, lmao. She is one of the most powerful women in Tampa Bay. :-P

You didn't know Tony Everett is a woman? I hope you weren't talking to her directly, lmao. She is one of the most powerful women in Tampa Bay. :-P

No I felt like it looked like a guys name.. No I did not know she was the Nancy Polosi of Tampa..

It's not like I'm Rosie Odonnell and she is Donald Trump and I said she went bankrupt or something..

I needed answers, and I think I delivered..

This is common news that the residents of Tampa, should no that's all.. :dunno: :dunno:

Haha, I wasn't attacking. I just thought it was kinda funny. I can't believe you got to speak with her, and not some member of her agency... she has quite the entourage these days.

Haha, I wasn't attacking. I just thought it was kinda funny. I can't believe you got to speak with her, and not some member of her agency... she has quite the entourage these days.

Maxim98 you sca----rrred me, I thought you were serious.. I had no idea who she was, we had a great talk.. She was very enthuisiastic about what's going on in T-town.. We laughed IT WAS GREAT..

Sidebar she was quoting me prices and said the 25 units left at Trump start at 1 million..

And the HI Plaza start at 1.9 million..

chump change..:nuts:

Well, while I actually do think it is more likely to eventually get built than not, I would caution against believing all the info from a realtor - like who is going to plop down money for a unit (and her commission) if she says the project is going to be strung out indefinitely
lol... that's what I was thinking...

So then there's not truth to the rumor that Rosie O'Donnell is collaborating on this project with Trump ?

Maxim98 you sca----rrred me, I thought you were serious.. I had no idea who she was, we had a great talk.. She was very enthuisiastic about what's going on in T-town.. We laughed IT WAS GREAT..

Sidebar she was quoting me prices and said the 25 units left at Trump start at 1 million..

And the HI Plaza start at 1.9 million..

chump change..:nuts:

It's all just "Trump change." :rofl:

So then there's not truth to the rumor that Rosie O'Donnell is collaborating on this project with Trump ?
Watch Rosie pay Venu to put her name on it! :lol:

What next, paying Chicago to put her name on the Chicago Spire and New York for the new WTC? :nuts:

Putting Rosie name on any tower would probably kill it:lol:

Putting Rosie name on any tower would probably kill it:lol:

It would weight down the building's thin profile

So for those that doubt this project would go vertical, you can rest now... Per her she said the latest would be 2 months , but was also optimistic it could be in as littlte as 6 weeeks..

Ha! They better be digging like hell right now if they think they will have anything going vertical by March 4th. I want to see it go and still think it could but no way on that time line. I would be extremely surprised.

Maybe they will have a flag pole, or tree planted. :lol:

my office overlooks this site and i can say that aside from a few people walking to and from the two trailers ont he site i have seen no activiity on it in a couple of months now.

Ha! They better be digging like hell right now if they think they will have anything going vertical by March 4th. I want to see it go and still think it could but no way on that time line. I would be extremely surprised.

Well I wouldn't target March 4th per say.. But sometime in March is more realistic..

Venu sometime in the summer of 2007...

Well I wouldn't target March 4th per say.. But sometime in March is more realistic..


No it's not.

Well I wouldn't target March 4th per say.. But sometime in March is more realistic..

Venu sometime in the summer of 2007...

I don't think Trump going vertical in March is realistic. Plain and simple they haven't done the foundation work neccessary to go vertical. Also, Venu going vertical this YEAR would doubtful at best much less the summer.