I think she meant "resume construction"

No it's not.

Yes it is.. is that less offensive..I guess what I wanted to say was erased..

Its not a matter of being negative, its realistic. I develop and build high rise buildings for a living, you call sales centers and then report unrealistic information, good job. You clearly have no idea of what you are talking about. I'm sure the board appreciates it.

But you are right, I'd take a Trump Tower here. Whats your point?

Yes it is.. is that less offensive..I guess what I wanted to say was erased..
you can't see the shell of your your post and the message explaining why it was taken down?

Can anyone see the post orlandonative quoted?

Yeah, I'll remove it. It's retarded.

I think I got good feedback from my earlier post.. Why dont you come over to Tampa and build us some more condo's then..

You are very negative as Miltifamily investor has also said in another thread..

We can see right through you buddy.. It's just not me that notices..

Retarded but the truth hurts..

Just don't hate the city , hate the game:banana: :banana: .

I think I got good feedback from my earlier post.. Why dont you come over to Tampa and build us some more condo's then..

You are very negative as Miltifamily investor has also said in another thread..

We can see right through you buddy..

Bottle the rage dude, I really like Tampa.

Bottle the rage dude, I really like Tampa.

I like Orlando also, but you don't see me in your Orlando threads saying that the Orlando posters are smoking weed and being just a little optimistic about our cities..

Sorry man, I WANT SAY ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT IT..

Its not a matter of being negative, its realistic. I develop and build high rise buildings for a living, you call sales centers and then report unrealistic information, good job. You clearly have no idea of what you are talking about. I'm sure the board appreciates it.

But you are right, I'd take a Trump Tower here. Whats your point?

I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express once.

I'll let it go after this. All I am saying is that you cannot mobilize a site crew, lay all of your underground work and go vertical from caissons by the end of March that's it. You keep arguing that you can which I don't understand. If that's negative than o.k. I'm guilty, but I repeat, I love Tampa, great city.

I'll let it go after this. All I am saying is that you cannot mobilize a site crew, lay all of your underground work and go vertical from caissons by the end of March that's it. You keep arguing that you can which I don't understand. If that's negative than o.k. I'm guilty, but I repeat, I love Tampa, great city.

Cool man I know you probably no way more than me on this subject.. Sorry if that was rage, I apologize for that..

I like Orlando also..

I'm just a sucker to a nice sales lady, that tells me this is going to happen in 2 months..

Well I wouldn't target March 4th per say.. But sometime in March is more realistic..

Yayyyy! :nuts:

Usually I enjoy knowing that people learn something new here... It's just gets kinda sad when they bite the hand that is feeding them.

I don't know how we got off topic - Wasn't this thread about Rosie O'Donnell?

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20061221/160_rosie_odonnell2_061221.jpg

I don't know how we got off topic - Wasn't this thread about Rosie O'Donnell?

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20061221/160_rosie_odonnell2_061221.jpg

Wow that's a great picture of her. She actually looks better than she used to.

I was peruzing the riverwalk page on tampa.gov and found a "January Update file" It can be viewed here: http://www.tampagov.net/dept_riverwalk/files/Progress%20Update%2001-12-07.pdf
what i found interesting was that Trump tower's developers aquired a new partner and will go vertical JANUARY 2007. Is this info credible?

^no, it is not.

I just got my Trump Tower package in the mail yesterday, it is quite nice.. They sent me floor plans a huge picture of the condo, and prices and what not..

I have to think they would not be sending these brochures which are very impressive, to people if this building wasn't going to get built..

Florida Future you are so right, Venu will not be summer, probably more like late 2007 sometime..

I have to think they would not be sending these brochures which are very impressive, to people if this building wasn't going to get built...

Brochures are a lot cheaper than going vertical. They are also a lot easier to get printed than it is to secure financing for a high-end tower. I'll believe they are on track when I see it. Right now Novare is the only company who I would trust to meet a target date.

Developer Wants Mired Trump Tower

By SHANNON BEHNKEN The Tampa Tribune

Published: Feb 13, 2007



TAMPA - Facing $3.3 million in construction liens, the stalled Trump Tower Tampa may have a new suitor with experience in the Trump brand of condominiums.

Donald Trump, who has repeatedly expressed frustration at the lack of progress at the riverfront site, is encouraging the acquisition and says the new company can turn the project around.

The Related Group, the Miami-based developer building three Trump projects in South Florida, wants to buy the development rights to the 52-story riverfront project at 111 S. Ashley Drive, Trump said by telephone Monday.

"Out of my 70-plus developments, this one in Tampa is the only one not moving," said Trump, who sold the naming rights for the tower to a local developer. "But I think it will be successful in the end. I'd like to see it be a great success."

Trump Tower Tampa was announced more than two years ago and quickly generated a waiting list for reservations to purchase, but Tampa-based SimDag LLC has struggled to get it off the ground. Plagued by rising construction costs, problems with unstable ground, and trouble lining up financing, SimDag in November sold the $260 million project to Mirabilis Ventures LLC, an Orlando-based private equity firm. SimDag remained as a partner.

Trump had tried for months to buy out the project but was outbid by Mirabilis. He said Monday that the Orlando company may choose to partner with the South Florida developer or may decide to go it alone.

Representatives for SimDag and Mirabilis did not return phone calls. The Related Group declined to comment.

The Related Group is building Trump Towers in Sunny Isles Beach and plans to break ground this spring on Trump Hollywood in Hollywood, Fla. Trump said he is working with the company to build an additional condo tower in West Palm Beach.

David Hooks, spokesman for Trump Tower Tampa, confirmed that "discussions are under way this week among SimDag, Mirabilis, Related and the Trump Organization."

"We need to settle the ownership issue before moving forward with the next step," Hooks said. "The new development program is being finalized."

As for the liens, Hooks said, "those are all going to be satisfied."

Meanwhile, the project is being rebid to subcontractors, and some companies who already completed work say they haven't been paid.

Henry Lewis, president of the City Blue Print in Tampa, said SimDag hasn't paid him since June. Lewis said his company printed construction plans on Trump Tower as well as two other SimDag projects, Plaza Channelside and Antigua Bay in Clearwater.

Mirabilis also acquired the Antigua Bay project in November, and representatives said then that plans were under way to purchase seven to nine more of SimDag's luxury condo projects.

Lewis says SimDag owes him $32,000.

"This has been going on for a long time, and we're tired," Lewis said. "I call and they don't call back, and when I do talk to them, they always have a different story."

While Lewis is waiting to get paid, the developers are already ordering work from another blueprint company. Cory Deermont, vice president of Tampa Reprographics & Supply, said his company received an order from SimDag late last week to print 75 copies of the new construction plans.

Deermont said he was told the project would be rebid. "Costs have gone up, so I don't think they can hold contractors to old prices," Deermont said, noting that he has always been paid promptly by SimDag. .

The first general contractor for the Trump project, Dallas-based Turner Construction Co., was dismissed in April and filed a $1.2 million lien against the property two months later. Case Atlantic Co., which installed foundational support pillars on the property, filed a $1.9 million lien in October and two smaller contractors, Finke Bros. and L.R. Penny & Associates, filed liens of $97,000 and $2,500 respectively in January.

"I had to file to protect my rights," said Rodney Finke, co-owner of the site preparation company. "I hope they'll get their act together, take care of whatever problems they have and pay us."

Finke said he has been paid for work he's doing on other SimDag projects, but Lauren Penny, owner of the survey company, said that company hasn't.

Penny said a lien is also being filed against Antigua Bay in Clearwater. Payment for work on both projects is more than 90 days late, Penny said.

"We've done a lot of work for [SimDag] and they're terrific," Penny said. "I feel terrible, but the situation is at such a point I had to file to protect myself."

Construction deadlines have been pushed back multiple times. The last completion date, announced in October, is mid-2009.

In the past two years, SimDag has parted ways with two contractors and passed on at least $40 million in construction increases to buyers with reservations to purchase units. Condos originally sold for $700,000 to more than $6 million.

Rebidding the project now raises questions about how much more it will cost developers to build the tower. Some Trump buyers have been asked to pay tens of thousands more to offset rising costs. Some paid; others dropped out.

Now that most purchase agreements have been converted to hard contracts, those prices can't be changed.

Reporter Shannon Behnken can be reached at (813) 259-7804 or sbehnken@tampatrib.com.

http://www.tbo.com/news/money/MGBW9U0O3YE.html

What a sad turn of events. I'm surprised that Mirabilis actually outbid the Trumpster on a project with his name attached.

So is this a dead project or what? It's aweful smokey in here. . . lol

If Trump is still after the project, I have a flicker of hope for it.

But with Miirabalis -- I'll just put up a snarky "Told you so". They (I believe SIMDAG) planned to re-start construction this month, then the ownership change happened and well... nothing since.

After reading the article it seems like the project is still on track to get built especially with the surprisingly strong resilience of Trump himself. Seems like Related might be able to get it done, and all of the developers are still working on it. But, after all, if the project doesn't heppen then that piece of land could be home to amore impressive development in the future and probably will.

Trump Tower Condo Buyers Sue, Doubt Completion

By SHANNON BEHNKEN The Tampa Tribune

Published: Feb 14, 2007 :down:

TAMPA - Two buyers in the stalled Trump Tower Tampa condominium say it is impossible for developers to finish the 52-story tower by the time their contract mandates. The buyers want their money back and have sued to get out of the deal.

The buyers' attorney, Thomas Long, said his clients don't believe the riverfront condo will be built and feel misled. The fact that the developers don't have financing more than two years after announcing the project, combined with unresolved ownership issues and problems with unstable ground at the site, make it unlikely the tower will be completed by the December 2008 deadline stated in the contract, he said.

In recent months, developers said it would be mid-2009 before they finish construction.

"When you do a high-rise, particularly on land on the riverfront in a marshy area, you better make sure you can build it - before you start collecting the profits," said Long, of the Tampa firm Barnett, Bolt, Kirkwood, Long & McBride.

The developers named in the suit, Tampa-based SimDag LLC and Orlando-based private equity firm Mirabilis Ventures, did not return phone calls seeking comment.

The suit was filed in Hillsborough County Circuit Court on Jan. 31 and says the buyers were lured into purchasing a $1.4 million condo because they believed Donald Trump owned "a substantial stake" of the project.

"Donald Trump has boasted that his partnership with SimDag is more than a licensing or marketing arrangement," the suit states.

Long said his clients, Louis Ricci and Joe Shultz, both of Walton County, near Pensacola, have since learned that the developers paid the real estate mogul for the naming rights of the building.

"If you look at the Web site, it says Trump is a partner," Long said. "Now, we don't know where Donald Trump fits into this deal."

Trump has said that SimDag, the original developer, paid him an undisclosed sum in exchange for naming rights. As part of the agreement, the developers must build the tower to certain specifications and standards of the Trump brand, but no one from the Trump organization is involved in the construction process.

Trump said Monday he is frustrated with the lack of progress at the site, at 111 S. Ashley Drive. Trump has 72 condo projects in various stages of development and said the Tampa project is the only one not moving forward. It is unclear how many are licensing agreements and what his involvement is in those projects.

Trump revealed Monday by telephone that The Related Group, a Miami developer partnering with Trump on three towers in South Florida, wants to purchase or to become a partner on the Tampa project.

Trump tried to buy out SimDag last fall, but the developer instead sold to Orlando developer Mirabilis. SimDag remained as a partner. At the time, Mirabilis said it had also purchased SimDag's Antigua Bay project in Clearwater and planned to buy seven to nine other SimDag developments.

David Hooks, Trump Tower Tampa spokesman, said he was unaware of the lawsuit and could not comment. Trump could not be reached.

Darryl C. Wilson, a professor of property law at Stetson University, said the suit sounds weak on the surface.

"It's pretty difficult for them to get any relief right now because there hasn't been any breach of contract at this time," Wilson said. "You have to give them a chance to fulfill their contract."

The plaintiffs, who purchased a unit through their company, NLR T LLC, made a 20 percent deposit in August 2005. The suit sayshe deposit consisted of $148,200 cash and a letter of credit in the same amount.

Wilson said it may be too early for others to sue, but if these plaintiffs are awarded their money back, "it would certainly open the floodgates for other buyers to follow."

The suit is the latest in a series of issues surrounding the $260 million riverfront project.

SimDag has dismissed two contractors and passed on at least $40 million in construction increases to buyers who have contracts to purchase. Expected completion dates have been pushed back numerous times.

The project is being rebid to subcontractors, and some companies that have completed work say they haven't been paid. Four have filed liens on the property totaling $3.3 million.

Reporter Shannon Behnken can be reached at (813) 259-7804 or sbehn ken@tampatrib.com.

http://www.tbo.com/news/money/MGBN7FA45YE.html

You could see this happening from a mile away!

Yeah no shit. I'm amazed the legal paperwork didn't start flying when the project was largely sold to Mirabilis.

PREDICTION: Trump Tower Tampa will begin (real) construction in the first half of this year.

PREDICTION: Trump Tower Tampa will begin (real) construction in the first half of this year.

Yeah...Why???

I wouldn't be surprised if construction starts my Late April or Early May. With everything going on lately, Trump support and this latest news, Maybe they'll pick up the pace. I think Mirables will allow the South Florida company help out in this. If they get this tower down, even with some help, it will still be a great image for them in the outcome, and they really don't want to f*ck up.

I think they need to have financing lined up before starting construction. I was under the impression no one has signed up to pay for it yet. It doesn't sound like there is a lot of cash hanging out since there are quite a few liens.

I drove by the site today on the way to Publix and there were a few workers around doing something. Probably moving the sand around to look like work had been done... :P After two years I'm pretty skeptical.

Don Trump is not and was not ever materially involved in this project. I don't know why people keep asking him about it. Maybe because SimDag/Mirabilis don't talk to reporters.

No way this will start in April... For all we know, this new sale of the project might not even close by then.

In my mind this project is a 50/50 shot and declining daily. Its time to either step up or pave a new parking lot.

Prediction: Squabbling between the factions goes on through May and when Mirabilis refuses to sell even after monumental money amounts thrown out by Trump -- the Donald files a lawsuit to get his name off the building, more legal snafus come into play...

Maybe by 2015 they will have the legal stuff sorted out and the property owner at the time will propose another building...

Guys...not for nothing but this is a good development in this ongoing saga. The Related Group of South Florida are the REAL deal. They have built numerous HIGH QUALITY projects and it's a welcome sign the are moving or want to move into OUR market.
Come on, we ALL love tall buildings and this is what they build. They have the pockets, the political clout, and the energy to follow projects through completion.
This is probably the start of their entry to our market. Let's embrace them as they have some of the best projects in the Southeast.

This group from Miami is building several high rises, my friend from Tampa told me just today the same thing.. In that if they do team up with Trump and build this.. They might think of the Tampa market for future projects..

I still think we get a tall building on that prime location.. imo

If anything, they lend credability to the project in general as TRUMP himself announced their interest. This alone will raise the interest of other "out of town" developers looking to expand to our market.
I personally, prefer to have high level developers with deep pockets come to town with concrete plans and the means of getting the projects completed.
Too many projects announced by inexperienced developers with little to no background in high rise development (i.e. Mirabellas, SimDag, etc...) only hurts our areas image when trying to compete in the big leagues.
I am not saying that we are not because I feel very strongly about Tampa Bay as a whole. I just think we need more national players top take us to the next level with regards to being considered a 24/7 or international city.

I think that being known as an international city right now is a little bit of a long shot, but I am for taking Tampa to the next level.

I think that being known as an international city right now is a little bit of a long shot, but I am for taking Tampa to the next level.
Not really. I know lots of people over in England, Germany, Italy, and Norway that now much of the Tampa Bay area from vacations and such. Some have also moved here because they loved the area so much. Although Tampa isn't New York, Miami, or even a Los Angeles, it is well known throughout the World.

I agree, if we ever want to see Trump Tower go vertical, we need a great international or national developer. This company from South Florida I believe can get this back up and running. If they are not allowed to work with Mirabillis then I will call this a dead project, but if they get the nod then I place my bets that this will go vertical.

One project that I remember that was built by an International developer and never saw the daylight was our friend Hillsborough River Tower. The same developers built Petronas Towers.

I think that in the next office boom we might get to bring HRT back into the spotlight once more, but I feel that it will only be delayed again and again.

HRT is dead - forget it. It is dead - a stupid plan in a bad location at the wrong time - dead.

One project that I remember that was built by an International developer and never saw the daylight was our friend Hillsborough River Tower. The same developers built Petronas Towers.

You are confusing the developer with the architect. The architect has no influence on whether the HRT will get off the ground. The developer is the Jeffries Company and Hillsborough River Realty. If there is ever enough demand to warrant the construction of this much office space, it could very well happen. The developer continues to maintain their DRI status and just completed a NOPC to extend out its expiration date.

Hey 97. . . what is a DRI status and a NOPC? I'm not up to speed on the lingo but I'm curious. :)

Hey 97. . . what is a DRI status and a NOPC? I'm not up to speed on the lingo but I'm curious. :)

NOPC = Notice of Proposed Change
DRI = Development of Regional Impact

At least that's how I read it.

Thanks, jonknee. I wonder what proposed change they're offering.

Thanks, jonknee. I wonder what proposed change they're offering.

They've just extended the buildout date to 2015. If you're interested, you can find some good info on the DRI process on the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council's website: www.tbrpc.org

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/02/19/daily58.html

Trump Tower Tampa under new management ... again

It appears Donald Trump is getting his wish.

The Related Group of Florida out of Miami signed a letter of intent with Mirabilis Ventures and SimDag LLC Friday to take over as managing partner of the Trump Tower Tampa project, a 52-story luxury condominium project that has struggled to get out of the ground in Tampa's downtown core.

"We're finalizing the documentation right now," said Jeneissy Azcuy, spokeswoman for The Related Group. "We're not buying out the project, but we're going to be the managing partner."

Financial details of Related Group's entry into the project were not immediately available. SimDag spokesman David Hooks and Mirabilis Ventures spokesman Woody Johnson were still working on obtaining details about Related Group's inclusion.

Trump of the Tropics
New York developer Trump, who stars in his own television reality series on NBC, told local media earlier this month that he wanted to get The Related Group - which has worked on three other Trump projects in Florida - involved in this tower where nothing more than a foundation exists at 111 S. Ashley Drive, and where costs have soared over $300 million.

Related has its own celebrity in Jorge Perez, managing general partner. Time magazine once referred to him as "The Trump of the Tropics." He has a development portfolio in excess of $10 billion, according to the South Florida Business Journal, a sister publication to the Tampa Bay Business Journal.

Related already is working with "The Donald" on Trump Hollywood, a 200-unit oceanfront project north of Miami as well as the twin Trump Towers projects in Sunny Isles Beach. But not even Related, with its heavy revenue stream, has been insulated from rising construction costs.

Related pulled out of two projects in Las Vegas last year as well as a waterfront project in Jacksonville.

It is unclear how the project will proceed, with SimDag - which was bought out by Mirabilis last November - still continuing as Trump Tower Tampa's developer before the Related partnership was announced.

It is still unclear if more than $3 million in construction liens against Trump Tower Tampa, including one filed by Turner Construction last June, have been satisfied, or what other financial roadblocks still face the tower construction project.

The most recent estimates from Mirabilis handed out last November said the project should be done in 2009, but foundation work apparently is expected to continue to solve ground soil issues that were found on the site last fall.

Great, Related is obviously a pretty solid group. Unfortunately one thing that they are going to ask for is a re-bid from the mystery GC. Subs at this point will be hard to come by. This will put into full perspective exactly hom much surplus cash has accumulated since they took their break. Metals (re-steel, copper) all have increased by 2-3% every month (minimum). Gas prices are going up as well, so everything petroleum based (PVC, Drywall) is going to follow suit.

Hope this gets built, unfortunately though if the financial realities don't serve as a deterent the general distrust for the project in the public sector will.

Guess we'll see how willing the residents that have gone to contract are to take yet another cost increase, more promises, and a greatly extended timeline.

So in other words and with all things considered, this project is pretty much dead. :(

we knew that the day work stopped. the budget has already been blown once, and buyers won't tolerate it being blown again in a drifting market. Hell, some are already suing over the delay. try hitting those people up for another couple hundred grand and see what happens.

I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I think it still get's built..:banana: :

bye bye

^^ Hardass! :tongue2: hehe

we knew that the day work stopped. the budget has already been blown once, and buyers won't tolerate it being blown again in a drifting market. Hell, some are already suing over the delay. try hitting those people up for another couple hundred grand and see what happens.

Jason:) , my friend, I still see this Trump Tower getting completed by at least the year 2012, with developer Jorge Perez, It will be done Fast and with a good funding background with the Related Groups past progress:cheers: .

More bad news. But I'm happy, the barricades are useless and cause a headache at peak times.

http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGB1HS05MYE.html

City Tells Tower Builders To Use It Or Move It

The city has had it with the stalled Trump Tower project and the daily traffic mess it causes for no reason.

This week the city plans to send a letter to SimDag LLC, the original developer of the proposed 52-story condo development at South Ashley Drive, demanding the company resume work at the site or remove the concrete barriers that block Ashley's southbound right lane leading to Brorein Street.

For a year drivers have had to negotiate the lane closure.

"This goes way beyond our patience," said Irvin Lee, the city's director of public works. "I understand this is a complex project, but we have a responsibility to the taxpayers."

SimDag's work permit expires Friday and if there is no construction activity at the site the city wants the barriers removed. If the company won't do it, Lee said, the city will remove the barriers and bill SimDag for the cost.

In conversations the past couple of weeks, the city has been unable to nail down SimDag on when exactly it will resume construction, which has been stalled for months.

Calls Friday to several SimDag officials were not returned.

"They have worn out their welcome," Lee said.

Actually, if Related's on board, that's a virtual guarantor of success. Almost everything they've in Florida has turned to gold.

Related may be on board but until they are legally in -- with all the paperwork filed away, with Mirabalis (you realize that was the company name of the guys who created ICQ -- the instant message platform that AOL bought out in 1998?) and SimDag off in the sunset... when THAT happens, things could move forward.

And we're talking maybe July if wheels are greased and such.

I know Mirabalis wasn't in it to develop the property (they only wanted the property to flip it). It's Trump's ego that is keeping the development alive (for good or for ill). And knowing how big and gaudy Donald's ego is -- the project is still alive (if and only if they get this ownership and development stuff squared up).

and hasn't The Donald already vowed to get this one built ?

This IS going to happen guys. Trump wants it done and these guys WILL get it done. It's a viable waterfront location and we should be happy this is a solid company moving in. What;s the big deal other then another delay? I mean, the current guys couldn't get it done versus bringing in some fresh blood which WILL get it going? Could be mush worse you know and we could have a project in legal BS until it finally gets moving again???Lighten up.

Sure it will get done... So long as there are about 125 or so buyers willing to pay another 10-20% on top of prices that are already among the highest in the region per sqft for a condo. And they need to be willing to commit to buying in a local luxury condo market very much overbuilt... Good luck finding 125+ millionaires that careless with their money.


All I know is that if I was a buyer in this price range, I would probably be looking to ease up for a few months, and see what comes of Venu and the next Plaza HI tower (not to mention the several high end, highrise projects elsewhere on the S Tampa bayfronts and in Pinellas). At least those projects don't have track records of delays and endless price increases.

New Group To Develop Trump Site

By DAVE SIMANOFF The Tampa Tribune

Published: Feb 27, 2007

Related Links:
Discuss The Project


A Miami-based company is poised to take the reins in developing Trump Tower Tampa.

The Related Group signed a letter of intent late last week to become general managing partner of the long-delayed luxury condominium project, according to Jeneissy Azcuy, Related's head communications director.

Azcuy said she couldn't predict when the deal might close. She also said she couldn't discuss financial terms, construction timetables, or how much of a role the original developer, Tampa-based SimDag LLC, and its new partner, Orlando-based Mirabilis LLC, would play in the project.

The letter of intent is "as much as, right now, I can tell you," she said.

If the deal goes through, people can expect Related to act quickly, Azcuy said. Waiting around is "not Related's style," she said.

SimDag spokesman David Hooks said he couldn't comment on Related's claims.

Trump Tower Tampa was announced with great fanfare more than two years ago, but SimDag has been set back by rising construction prices, extensive site work and problems in securing financing. The project now faces $3.3 million in construction liens.

Related is no stranger to condominiums bearing the Trump name. It has built three Trump-branded condominium towers at Sunny Isles Beach near Miami, and has plans for two more in Hollywood and Palm Beach.

Donald J. Trump, the celebrity real estate developer, told The Tampa Tribune this month he was frustrated with the lack of progress on Trump Tower Tampa. He also said he supported Related's efforts to buy the development rights for the condominium project.

Reporter Dave Simanoff can be reached at (813) 259-7762 or dsimanoff@tampatrib.com.

http://www.tbo.com/news/money/MGB42EXNNYE.html

Good! Maybe something will get done now. The only thing rising on that site is the grass.

Well hopefully this will be what the project finally needs in order to get vertical and start developing that prime waterfront location.

We just might have Trump and Venu going up simutaneously as we approach Superbowl 43....:bash: :bash:

The Hillsborough River will never be the same..:banana: :banana:

We just might have Trump and Venu going up simutaneously as we approach Superbowl 43...


Lets not go here again :rolleyes: Super Bowl in Tampa is not the end-all-be-all or national exposure for the city and it doesn't really mean jack in the end. We've had this discussion before....

What determines whether TTT is built at this point is whether or not the buyers have trust in Related to get the job done and don't countinue to pursue to get out of their contracts. Related coming aboard may be the turning point in all of this, or it will die in their hands.

My money is on it dying. The costs are astronomical. You'd think Related would only get involved if they thought it viable, though.


Let's just say I'm not holding my breath.

What's up with people and the Superbowl? Guys, it comes every few years - at least twice a decade. It'll be back :-P

Before I nash my teeth and rend my garments or shoot of fireworks, I htink I'll jsut wait and see if there is new money or not.

Again guys, you're talking a tower with Trumps name on it which buyers will consider when deciding where to purchase. The brand carries alot of clout and buyers will want to invest in something with more of a guaranteed return.
I love the design of VENU much better then Trump but Trump is still Trump and will market and resell much quicker then VENU or any of the other towers in the area proposed or completed. The brand sells itself and will well into the future. They just need the right group to make it happen.

Related + [insert almost any project] = done deal.

I've always heard and read that they were reputable and get stuff done... But it seems like this project is becoming a soft of albatross... Like our own little version of Chicago's infamous Block 37 or something...

Related + [insert almost any project] = done deal.
Not always. They had a project in Jacksonville, surprisingly a Trump Tower, and it feel through. I'm not saying ours could meet the same fate, but that it is possible. I would really like to see TTT to go vertical, but right now it is a coin flip.

I know, that's why I said 'almost any project'.

Not always. They had a project in Jacksonville, surprisingly a Trump Tower, and it feel through. I'm not saying ours could meet the same fate, but that it is possible. I would really like to see TTT to go vertical, but right now it is a coin flip.

Related's backing fell through, which delayed San Marco Riverwalk. However, the main developer has continued to move the project through city approvals and permitting, so it's very much still alive...just delayed.

Trump May Use Hedge Funds' Aid For Tower

By SHANNON BEHNKEN The Tampa Tribune

Published: Mar 3, 2007


TAMPA - In a move that could mean instant financing for the troubled 52-story Trump Tower Tampa, a New York hedge fund is negotiating to become a financial partner in the riverfront project.

Donald Trump's organization confirmed Friday that the celebrity developer helped put together the hedge fund and is hoping to finalize the deal next week.

Officials with the original partners, Tampa-based SimDag LLC, wouldn't elaborate but confirmed the negotiations and said work could resume in 60 to 90 days.

"We're in the process of trying to close the deal," said John Reich, president of the company's construction division, SimDag Towers LLC. "We're very hopeful."

Hedge funds can be a last-ditch effort to get financing when traditional funding fails, and partners in the project say it could mean the difference between the tower being built or not. The fund would be the third group to step into the stalled project.

Trump Tower was announced two years ago but remains without financing. The tower has gained notoriety nationwide but is entangled in $3.3 million in construction liens and lawsuits filed recently by buyers who say they don't think the tower will be built by the December 2008 deadline mandated in their contracts.

Trump licensed his name to SimDag for an undisclosed amount and made one appearance in Tampa in early 2005 to promote the project. In recent months, however, he has expressed frustration with the lack of progress.

Trump tried to buy out SimDag last fall, but the developer instead sold to Orlando private equity firm Mirabilis Ventures Inc. SimDag remained as a partner. Earlier this week, The Related Group, a Miami-based developer working on three other Trump projects, said it had signed a letter of intent to become the general managing partner for the Tampa tower.

'Tight-Lipped' About Involvement
Eric Fordin, a project executive with Related, said his company will stay involved, no matter what.

"Everything is still transpiring, and we have to keep it tight-lipped at this point," he said. "We're still involved and working hand-in-hand with the partners."

The hedge also could take control of at least two other SimDag projects, Antigua Bay in Clearwater and the former Plaza At Channelside, said Henry Lewis, whose Tampa company, City Blue Print, printed construction plans for the tower. "It's my understanding that this is not just specific to Trump."

Mirabilis already has purchased the right to build both of those towers along with the Trump tower. Representatives with Mirabilis could not be reached for comment.

It is unclear how much of a role SimDag and Mirabilis would play in the development.

A Trend In The Making?
Hedge funds taking over real estate developments is not unusual but could become a growing trend since so many developers are having a difficult time getting large-scale projects off the ground, said Jim Hedges, with LJH Global Investments, a Naples-based hedge fund advisory firm.

It's a "last resort" for developers wanting to finish what they started, Hedges said.

"It puts the success of the project in further doubt because in order to pay off the high interest and the principal of the debt and have remaining equity worth anything, you'd have to sell condos at a lot higher prices."

That's not a likely scenario for SimDag and Mirabilis. SimDag already passed along at least $40 million in construction increases to buyers with reservations to purchase units. Condos originally sold for $700,000 to more than $6 million. It has since converted purchase agreements to hard contracts, meaning the prices can't be changed.

Reporter Shannon Behnken can be reached at (813) 259-7804 or sbehnken@tampatrib.com.

http://www.tbo.com/news/money/MGBKXWZDTYE.html

:dance: Related + [insert almost any project] = done deal.
DALE:) my friend,
So True !!!:banana:
Now it will be Done:cheers:

p.s. Thanks FloridaFuture:) , my friend, for great update,

and Happy 1,500 Post !!!:dance:

Now it will be Done:cheers:

p.s. Thanks FloridaFuture:) , my friend, for great update,

and Happy 1,500 Post !!!:dance:

Thanks, Chuck. :) And at this point TTT's luck is starting to turn around if they can get this financing. I think 60 to 90 days to resume construction may be to optimistic but if they can reach that deadline, or come close, the buyers may not back out, and then yes it would get built.

This week we could here some huge news on this project.. Stay tuned..

As other people have stated Related, is coming in to take over and the Donald is expected to make an announcement really soon..

All I can say is good luck..

Tampa needs TTT ...:bash: :banana:

Builder Says Probe Won't Affect Tower

By SHANNON BEHNKEN The Tampa Tribune

Published: Mar 6, 2007


TAMPA - The private-equity firm that bought out Trump Tower Tampa in November is under federal investigation, authorities confirmed Monday.

"Nobody has been charged at this point, but we do have an investigation open," said Steve Cole, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office in Tampa.

Cole would not elaborate on the type of investigation, but The Orlando Sentinel reported Saturday that some former Mirabilis officials said they had been questioned recently by investigators from the Internal Revenue Service and that records have been subpoenaed by federal prosecutors.

Dan Cence, a Boston-based communications consultant working for Mirabilis, said the investigation involves Presidion Solutions, a company that provides human resource services, including the handling of payroll and taxes for client companies. Mirabilis is cooperating with the investigation, he said.

Mirabilis specializes in distressed companies, Cence said, and works mainly with human resource companies. When dealing with distressed companies, Cence said, "you get warts and all."

The company took control of the stalled Trump Tower Tampa project from Tampa-based SimDag LLC in November but has yet to secure financing or start vertical construction on the downtown riverfront site.

SimDag officials and Donald Trump's office told the Tribune on Friday that a New York hedge fund is negotiating to provide financing for the tower.

John Reich, president of SimDag's construction division, said the Mirabilis investigation won't affect those negotiations. "I've been told this has nothing to do with the Trump project, and we're moving forward as planned."

Reporter Shannon Behnken can be reached at (813) 259-7804 or sbehnken@tampatrib.com.


http://www.tbo.com/news/money/MGBLQDHOXYE.html

Remember how "The Donald" said he could built this with the money out of his back pocket?
Well he is. He started the hedge fund, so its pretty much his money.

Now he stands to make money from selling his name, taking his cut of the profits, AND the financing.
With his stake being upped, you can pretty much be sure that it will be built.

Word is that the project is back out on the streets to subcontractors, now if the bottom line comes in anywhere close to what it needs to be construction should start soon. Hopefully.

This week we could here some huge news on this project.. Stay tuned..

As other people have stated Related, is coming in to take over and the Donald is expected to make an announcement really soon..

All I can say is good luck..

Tampa needs TTT ...:bash: :banana:

Really, really good news ? Like a redesign ? ;)

Could they really change the design?

If they did i think it could be reduced in height, if Trump is taking over the project then i do see the tower having a chance of being built unlike now.

March 6th in the Business section of Tampa Tribune .com..

Can someone link that atricle to this thread..

Thx

March 6th in the Business section of Tampa Tribune .com..

Can someone link that atricle to this thread..

Thx

Go back one page. FloridaFuture posted the article on page 29.

lol @ redesign comments. im with ya...

Trump is all about ugly/tacky though. It starts with his hair and continues through everything else. Expensive ugly is the new black.

Google images has a lot (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=trump%20condos&btnG=Google+Search&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi) of the other buildings people have paid him to market.

The Trump in Panama is sweet... Almost too literal of a representation of a spinnaker sail though. I still prefer the more conceptualized form of the Burj Dubai.

Trump Tower managing partner nees no need for redesign

Tampa Bay Business Journal
By MICHAEL HINMAN
Staff Writer

TAMPA -- Cutting costs is something The Related Group of Florida is known to do in construction projects it takes over. And while the $409 million price tag on Trump Tower Tampa is a steep one, new project executive Eric Fordin says the project could come in well below those numbers without having to redesign or cut back on units.

"There are a lot of buyers out there who are anxiously awaiting construction of this," said Fordin, who is working on his first Trump-related project despite Related's history in building other Trump projects in Florida.

"We're still in the preliminary stages. We're still inking out the partnership agreement and doing our due diligence," Fordin said. "Plans are to go back out to bid with our preferred subcontractors, and to talk to our buyer base. We're not just going to go in there with gunz abalze. We're going to do the right thing."

OBSTACLES TRUMP PROJECT

Related, which will act as Trump Tower Tampa's managing partner from Miami in association with Orlando-based Mirabilis Ventures, is already building three towers with Trump's name in Sunny Isles north of Miami as well as a fourth one in Hollywood. Coming into the project, they have all but moved out original developer SimDag LLC, which had stayed on as a partner after Mirabilis' takeover of the project last November.

Cost overruns won't be the only obstacles Related faces. Soil issues at the site, unpaid contractors and a general perception from the community that the 52-story luxury condominium tower will never be built also stand in the way of making the tower a success.

Public opinion, however, has a way of swaying when promises are fulfilled, and Related has an opportunity to do that, said Paul Ayres, director of marketing and business development for the Tampa Downtown Partnership.

"It will wash away," he said. "People will be excited to watch it go up."

FINDING A BROADER FOCUS

Attaching Trump's name always draws attention, many times dwarfing similar projects in the same downtown core. Usually it's good, but it a project begins to struggle, that attention could become unwanted. That shouldn't, however, force people to think downtown Tampa isn't developing, Ayres said.

"We have other significant investments that are being made in the downtown area that really equals what the hype is about the Trump project," he said. "For example, SkyPoint -- which is opening in April -- will have 300-plus residents occupying units downtown in the near future. And the same developer [Novare-Intowngroup] has started progress on Element and is promising a third."

Getting a lot of the positive attention focused back to the Trump project is important, however, Related's Fordin said. Part of that will be building the tower as originally proposed despite cost savings that could be found by going in another direction.

"Right now, we're bidding this job as is," he said. "We're not looking to redesign."

While many in the building industry have said Related has a strong track record in following through with projects, it doesn't always stay on high-profile ones.

Just weeks after announcing a $1.5 billion condo project in Jacksonville, Related backed out of the project in April citing a desire to "monitor market conditions."

Ranked as one of Florida's top multi-family developers and the largest Hispanic-owned business in the United States, Related's current development portfolio includes projects valued at more than $10 billion, according to sister publication South Florida Business Journal.

mhinman@bizjournals.com | 813.342.2477

Thx for the article.. No redesign is great.. And hopefully we get this thing going vertical soon.. I know everyone is excited to see it happen..

"gunz abalze"

Who writes/edits this stuff? Not sure if I can trust someone who can't spell guns ablaze.

:lol: After reading one of the articles about the downtown fires, I thought the same thing!

I don't care if they redesign the project or not, I just wish they would get back on track and start going vertical.

A redesign would be swell, so long as it is just as tall.

A redesign would be swell, so long as it is just as tall.

Yup. That is the only remarkable thing about this project. It certainly isn't the most inspired proposal in town, to say the least. I'm sure the rather plain, "safe" exterior will be opulently appointed for all the snowbirds calling Trump home, too. :lol:

A redesign would be swell, so long as it is just as tall.

Jason:) , my friend,
I've watched this Related group with Jorge Perez as the Top man,
He has built South Beach towers, Sunny Isles towers, Coral Gables and Miami towers, Hes Quick !!!:banana:
He stays with these projects as is, and this Trump Tampa Tower will be completed as originally designed and will get built Fast and completed right .:cheers:

I have to agree I am in the camp of, a redesign would not be a terrible thing. The Trump was never the best looking but its height was its strong point. Today, much like everyone else I just want to see it go vertical and fill up the empty parcel.

Remember this design is also getting up there in age. SimDag originally put up that plan without Trump attached to it. We've remarked in the past it looks like several other towers in several other markets (most notably one in Las Vegas).

I've also remarked it look sout of place in the skyline that is mostly glass. Rivergate Tower looks more in place than TTT. But at any rate, until the wheels get moving again, resigns don't mean crapola. The project is on life support until this mess of ownership is really formally cleaned up (with SimDag and Mirabilis (or whatever the spelling) removed from the project.

Why would you redesign the tower? That would cost a lot of money and push the project even further back. We already know that the big issue right now is money. I dont think that there is much left on the table for a redesign.

Just becuase a good deal of the other towers in town are glass doesnt mean TTT should be. Is New York like that? Ummm no.
The design has already been approved by the City. Any changes would require going back to them. And we know beuracracy. That wold take months if not years.
Built it the way it was designed, permitted and approved. Or deal with an empty lot.
I can see that not too many of you responding out there have ever tried to build anything of this magnitude, its not easy.

Just becuase a good deal of the other towers in town are glass doesnt mean TTT should be. Is New York like that? Ummm no.

Since WHEN Does Tampa stand up in any comparisons with New York City regarding development? You're comparing an orange to an apple orchard... Not "Apples to oranges" but a single fruit to a grove of trees bearing distinctively different fruit.

Why would you redesign the tower? That would cost a lot of money and push the project even further back. We already know that the big issue right now is money. I dont think that there is much left on the table for a redesign.

Just becuase a good deal of the other towers in town are glass doesnt mean TTT should be. Is New York like that? Ummm no.
The design has already been approved by the City. Any changes would require going back to them. And we know beuracracy. That wold take months if not years.
Built it the way it was designed, permitted and approved. Or deal with an empty lot.
I can see that not too many of you responding out there have ever tried to build anything of this magnitude, its not easy.
We didn't mention redesign, the developer did...

While most of the folks here haven't worked as a PM on such a project, you can be rest assured that at least 90% of the people here are well aware of the basic costs and time and govt BS a project has to go through if it is redesigned...

...and besides, some people here are more involved such projects than people realize...

Since WHEN Does Tampa stand up in any comparisons with New York City regarding development? You're comparing an orange to an apple orchard... Not "Apples to oranges" but a single fruit to a grove of trees bearing distinctively different fruit.

Great comparison.

Trump Tower Lawsuit Moves Forward
Posted Mar 14, 2007 by Clarisa Gerlach
Updated Mar 14, 2007 at 11:04 AM


By SHANNON BEHNKEN
The Tampa Tribune

TAMPA - The lawsuit filed by two disgruntled condominium buyers at Trump Tower Tampa is moving forward.

Hillsborough County Circuit Court Judge James M. Barton II this morning denied the developers’ motion to dismiss the suit. The developers named in the suit, SimDag LLC and Orlando private-equity firm Mirabilis Ventures Inc., have 15 days to file an answer to the complaint.

The Trump condominium buyers, Louis Ricci and Joe Shultz, both of Walton County, near Pensacola, say in the suit that it’s now impossible for developers to finish the tower by the Dec. 2008 completion date specified in their contracts. The buyers want their deposits back.

They also say they were misled about the role of celebrity real estate developer Donald Trump in the project. Trump has a licensing agreement with developers to use his name for the tower but has no ownership in the project and limited involvement in construction.

Trump Tower Tampa was announced with great fanfare two years ago but has yet to go vertical and remains without financing. Developers are in negotiations with a New York hedge fund to provide financing.

There’s been no construction at the downtown riverfront-site since November.

http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/newswire/story/trump-tower-lawsuit-moves-forward/

This entire project is a mess and the building is ugly!! Trump should ditch all of these idiots buy the land and build something a little more exciting on that property!!

Redesign it and make it bigger :) oh ya, and nicer looking lol.

With all due respect, I believe that you guys might be missing the point. Donald Trump has little interest in building in Tampa. He has time and time again mentioned that he has more than enough money to build the project himself and yet has done nothing about this to date. He is selling his name to the project nothing more.

I mentioned either on this boad or another well over a year ago before it was public that this project was in trouble and nobody paid the warning any mind. As far as a rdesign goes- you guys better hope not. A redesign in this business is a nice way of saying, one big ass VA and VE process. In short if you think you dislike the project now just wait. Same goes for all of those phantom buyers who have made reservations already. They have supposedly bought into a project that has promisd them the best that money can buy. Me personally, I just bought two units in Tradition Towers here in Downtown Orlando. It was designed in the same manner of sheer excess. Construction costs have made it twice as much per square foot as any new tower currently under construction here to date. Now do I care? No. But the moment that they come to me and tell me they are scaling down the project- I'm outta there.

Just something to think about. As always I fully support the project but this is highrise construction. I've lost projects with permits and 90% pre-sales nothing is impossible.

A redesign in this business is a nice way of saying, one big ass VA and VE process.

Portion of this project I was involved with was Value Engineered to death already.

What I saw of the plans and specifications at my last job didn't look all that jaw dropping to me. Of course, a plan and the real thing are a wee bit different, so who knows...

Portion of this project I was involved with was Value Engineered to death already.

Wish I could say that I was suprised. I'd hate to believe that is a sign of things to come. If Trump decides to sell the lot,....with caissons in place, I just might have to break my anonymity and snatch that bitch up.

^^ :lol: Don't be scared and confused. . . ;)

The Donald's Ego Is Only Thing Towering

Published: Mar 20, 2007


This was, admittedly, a delicious moment of proletarian guilty pleasure. Yummers.

Driving southbound on Ashley Drive on a recent Saturday morning, there it was: Nothing! Absolutely, gloriously, wonderfully nothing!

Gone was the hideous barricade shutting off a lane of Ashley Drive at Brorein Street, near the site of the moribund, forlorn, hapless Trump Tower meets a nuclear winter.

The barriers recently were removed since there was less activity taking place on the land than on Generalissimo Francisco Franco's last EKG.

It was with great fanfare that the Trump's "Pretty, I Feel Pretty, Oh So Pretty" Tower was announced some two years ago, proving once again Tampa's penchant for embracing the declasse wrapped in tackiness inside a big honking, stinking piece of cheese.

Plans called for gullible patrons to plunk down $700,000 to as much as $6 million to live in the 52-story Chump Tower, where one could revel in a panoramic view of Kennedy Boulevard and/or a phosphate dump.

Unfortunate Events
Oh, the Donald of it all!

It is true that suckers are born every minute - and they need a place to live.

But since those halcyon days when witting dupes lined up, checkbook in hand, to reserve their slice of eau de Trump, a series of unfortunate events has unfolded.

Construction costs increased and passed along to buyers.

Financing for the project has been problematic.

Then a boo-boo emerged regarding the stability of the ground along the Hillsborough River to sustain such a massive building.

Or put another way, the Anbar Province Visitors and Convention Bureau is bristling with more action than the corner of Ashley Drive and Brorein Street.

Late last week, Hillsborough Circuit Judge James M. Barton cleared the way for at least two disgruntled customers who bought into Frump Tower to pursue a lawsuit to get their money back.

Obvious Case
It's a pity the only people pulling in a steady paycheck when it comes to Hubris House are the lawyers.

Still, can you imagine a more obvious argument that the brouhaha over Egoville Towers represents a classic case of caveat emptor, buyer beware?

Really now, isn't this sort of real estate's version of Mike Tyson's bizarre, twisted, perverted and certainly rejected 1992 defense against rape charges that any woman who was dumb enough to go out with him pretty much knew what to expect?

Donald Trump is the unmitigated, undisputed, unchallenged King of Tackiness. He is to boorish, garish, rinky-dink taste what Rosie O'Donnell is to coquettishness.

So is it not too unreasonable to conclude that all those people who were so goo-goo, so ga-ga, so full of themselves to spend ridiculous sums of money simply to live at an address named after America's greatest self-promoting huckster with a perfectly dreadful haircut deserve whatever happens to them and their money?

Or, as Donald Trump, echoing a prominent headline from last August, might well say to those wishful thinking tenants with their cry-in-the-sky dreams: "You're mired!"

Daniel Ruth's column appears Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.

http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBUZU9THZE.html

Meh, not exactly what I would call good copy.

Damn!!
Ruth sounds like a jackass!! It sounds like he is gloating over the fact that the tower failed.

At least Pretend to be a cheerleader for your home town!

Ruth *is* a jackass. That's his schtick. Though I have to say that a little part of me loves that Trump is having a public failure while people without all the flash are getting things done. In a small way it re-establishes my belief in the universe.

Though I have to say that a little part of me loves that Trump is having a public failure.

Same here, I just wish he had it somewhere else...

Damn!!
Ruth sounds like a jackass!! It sounds like he is gloating over the fact that the tower failed.

At least Pretend to be a cheerleader for your home town!
I would feel bad for him for writing that, if I wasn't preoccupied for being embarrassed to live in a city where that is considered something worth publishing in the newspaper.

Why is everyone so keen to look past Related's recent involvement ?

Because after 2 years of waiting, construction talks and lip service walks.

Because after 2 years of waiting, construction talks and lip service walks.

Of course ... but Related is more than lip service.

^And so are lawsuits and budgets that double.

But of course you'd think that Related will have reckoned with all that before casting its lot.

There's no sense in arguing it. If it goes vertical then Related succeeded. Until then they shouldn't be given a benefit of the doubt. Let's not forget that the project is still mired by delays and lawsuits.

So Related has done some other projects? That's great, I'm happy for them. They have also cancelled projects before, nothing is a sure thing.

I'd love to see the tower built if the market for it is really there, but I'm not in the sales office so I don't know how motivated these buyers are. With the lawsuits, beautiful competing projects and price hikes I'm doubting they are hard core.

"Related has done some other projects..."

I nominate this for understatement of the year. ;)

Last Sunday's New York Times had a supplemental real estate magazine. The front cover featured a fold out three page ad for Trump- The Trump Organization. WWW.TRUMP.COM. Basically a mosaic of photographs of Trump projects, most of which are extant or under construction.

In any case, directly above the Trump banner was the familiar rendering of Trump Tower Tampa, marked as such. Don't know if that bodes well or not, but it appears that Trump is marketing the project...

Why is everyone so keen to look past Related's recent involvement ?

Mirabilis and Related's involvement have been very good news for a stalled project. It is still way too early for prognosticators of doom to start gloating.

^Yes it is too early for them to gloat... But I can understand the gathering around the wilting corpse.

The reality is that no one knows exactly what is going on and everything else is idle specuation

I guess I'm fairly bouyant about the project because we've had our own Trumps in Orlando. One is 55W, which got underway fully two years late, and is currently well underway. Then there is Tradition Tower, which was originally scheduled to break ground late 2005, and which is just now preparing to get underway.

For what it's worth, i noticed the big crane is being taken down at the site...

You beat me too it. I just drove by there and saw a few workers at the site and before I could react (workers at the Trump site?!?) I noticed that they were tearing down the crane. Not exactly a positive sign.

Maybe Related has it's own equipment that they will use on the project if they get the bid..:bash:

Not necessarily relevant... Could be taking the crane somewhere that it could be used.

So, another week down and none of these "possible huge announcments."

aren't those cranes leased? that's probably why they took it down... $$$

aren't those cranes leased? that's probably why they took it down... $$$

That's correct. Frankly, I'm surprised they left it on-site that long.

Seriously disappointing.

aren't those cranes leased? that's probably why they took it down... $$$

Not entirely. Depending on the size of the company, its not uncommon for them to own thir own equipment.

Could be an even worse sign.

What happened to these towers?! first Trump got us all excited and now it sits on hold, and has anyone typed the word venu on these forums for the past 4 months?
Are all of these developments awaiting financing and potential buyers/investors to step forward for their projects to start up? It pisses me off to see such great projects go unspoken of while they could be going vertical, like O2 and Crescent heights, Blu? Does anybody have any idea of whats going on?

Just drove by today, crane is still there.

Just drove by today, crane is still there.

Jason:) , my master and friend,
Its the Easter Holidays and Spring break vacations:banana: ,
give the Related Group and Jorge Perez about a month to get things started there again,
It will be built , soon .:cheers:
IMO:nuts: , I see this Tower completed for residents to move in by 2011 :)

Just drove by today, crane is still there.

There were 2 red cranes. I thought things might be starting up again but they were just moving one of the red cranes. Oh well.

Maybe they need the one crane to move the other crane ? :)

^then how does the last crane get moved? :D

hehe ;)

... by mule. :lol:

^then how does the last crane get moved? :D

Another Crane.:hahaha:

^then how does the last crane get moved? :D

One long ass board meeting.

"How many cranes does it take to do absolutely nothing for Trump Tower Tampa?"

"How many cranes does it take to do absolutely nothing for Trump Tower Tampa?"

2... 1 to sit there. Another to move it?

"How many cranes does it take to do absolutely nothing for Trump Tower Tampa?"

John F.:) " Kennedy " ( Ask, Not , what your country can do for you, Ask , what you can do for your country ):banana: , my friend,
ROME was built without a Crane !!!:cheers:

I'm still waiting for Forrest Trump to anounce that he's paying for it out of his back pocket. :nuts:

Forrest Trump?

"Life is like a box of chocolates -- the good ones cost more."

Wow....well actually it was

The little yellow crane that could!!!!

Happy Easter....

Forrest Trump?

"Life is like a box of chocolates -- the good ones cost more."

Right?!?! :rofl:

2... 1 to sit there. Another to move it?

Haha, thats quality.

Lawsuits: Debt mounts for Trump Tower players
Tampa Bay Business Journal - April 13, 2007by Michael HinmanStaff Writer

Kathleen Cabble
Trump Tower Tampa was one of SimDag’s projects.
View Larger Companies that once staked a claim to develop the mired Trump Tower Tampa are facing new legal challenges over debt.

Three limited liability companies are facing a pair of lawsuits filed in Pinellas County claiming that more than $2 million in loans are in default.


R.W. Harris, a Clearwater-based specialty foundation subcontractor, has sued SID Clearwater Marina LLC and SimDag Towers LLC for $797,000 after the companies failed to repay four loans issued throughout the second half of 2006 by the end of the year, according to the civil complaint.

SID Clearwater Marina is the company responsible for developing Antigua Bay Yacht Club in Clearwater and is registered with Florida's Division of Corporations by SimDag Investments LLC. That company, in turn, lists Orlando-based Titanium Technologies Inc. as its managing member.

Frank Amodeo, principal with the Orlando-based private equity firm Mirabilis Ventures Inc., is director of Titanium, public records show.

Mirabilis Ventures reportedly took over both Trump Tower Tampa and Antigua Bay last November. But the relationship is unclear. Mirabilis has yet to finalize its agreement to assume control of those projects, SimDag spokesman Hooks said Tuesday. Mirabilis is being investigated by a federal grand jury about not turning over to the government taxes collected by the company from its clients.

Lenders demand repayment
"The lawsuit is based on four promissory notes that arise out of work performed" for the companies, said Brian Deeb of Deeb & Brainard in St. Petersburg, which is representing R.W. Harris. Deeb wouldn't elaborate whether the amount came from foundation work at a SID Clearwater Marina project.

"What's going to be tried here are the promissory notes. We're not trying what work was done," he said.

The lawsuit was filed April 2 in the Pinellas County Circuit Court, and the named defendants have 20 days to respond to the suit, Deeb said.

A second separate lawsuit filed March 30 has pit four individual investors -- Edmund Page and Janina Brandt of Pinellas County, and James and Judith Ann Hard of Sugar Grove, Ill. -- against SimDag Investments as well as SimDag CEO Frank Dagostino and former partner Jody Simon. That lawsuit is seeking the repayment of $1.01 million plus $250,000 in interest from two promissory notes issued in August 2004 and January 2005 that also was due Dec. 30.

Two listed phone numbers for SimDag were inoperable, and Dagostino could not be reached for comment through SimDag spokesman David Hooks.

Simon, whose partnership stake in SimDag was bought out last November, said Wednesday that he wasn't aware of the lawsuit. "I just assume that the SimDag guys back there are taking care of all of that," he said.

Problems piling up
SimDag's Web site lists six projects under development in both Florida and New Jersey including Antigua Bay, Bella Marguerite in St. Pete Beach and Trump Tower Tampa.

A pair of investors in Trump Tower sued the company earlier this year demanding their deposit back. The highly anticipated project has been stuck in both construction and financial issues that have left the Ashley Drive site idle.

The Related Group of Miami, which is building three other Trump projects in Florida, is reportedly still negotiating to take over that project. SimDag has, however, been working to reduce nearly $3.5 million in construction liens placed against the project, according to court records, paying out $1.02 million to Case Atlantic Co. in December and $700,000 to Turner Construction Co. last May. Case was the company responsible for Trump Tower Tampa's foundation, while Turner was at one time the general contractor for the project.

After those payments, SimDag still owes $966,000 to Case and $700,000 to Turner.

mhinman@bizjournals.com | 813.342.2477


http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/04/16/story1.html?page=2&b=1176696000^1445907

Those of you who are waiting for Trump Tower are going to be waiting for a long time.
The project is dead. And it wont be coming back. Related doesnt want the project due to financing, liens, and other legal aspects.

SimDag owes millions to contractors, consultants, etc, and doesnt have a penny to its name (are you surprised its an LLC?). Mirabilis is being investigated by the feds.

Might as well get used to that empty lot, its gonna be that way for a long long time.

----It could've been uuuuge!

Obviously SimDag was in over its head. My question is, where was Trump in all this and his expressed determination to get it built even if he had to pay for it ?

Wow, Trump has taken a couple of hits this week. First this, then the revelation that his Toronto project is being reduced from 70 to 57 stories because that's all the financing it could get.

I don't think it will be empty for a long time, it is the premier location on the river.. As long as we get 12 ADH -Venu-Element-610-Central Park 3 high rises..And as many as 3-5 Channelsise projects it doesn't bother me at all..

I think something will rise at that location, sometime in the next 2-3 years..

Obviously SimDag was in over its head. My question is, where was Trump in all this and his expressed determination to get it built even if he had to pay for it ?

Wow, Trump has taken a couple of hits this week. First this, then the revelation that his Toronto project is being reduced from 70 to 57 stories because that's all the financing it could get.

And his show Apprentice is bombing also..

I don't think it will be empty for a long time, it is the premier location on the river.. As long as we get 12 ADH -Venu-Element-610-Central Park 3 high rises..And as many as 3-5 Channelsise projects it doesn't bother me at all..

I think something will rise at that location, sometime in the next 2-3 years..
Something larger and more fitting to Tampa's architecture I hope.

I don't think it will be empty for a long time, it is the premier location on the river..

I'm not sure I would call it a premier location since it's isolated around a freeway and office towers. Novare is making the Northern end of downtown the place to live, the proposed/in-progress and completed projects (http://www.tampagov.net/dept_economic_and_urban_development/CRA/Downtown/Downtown_Residential_development_Interactive.asp) are all centered up there. Trump looks lonely.

That being said, I'm all for it being built if there really are people that will actively live in it. If the buyers are all looking for a third home and won't be active in the community then I would rather a more economical tower that would interest more desirable owners.

The only good thing to come out of this, IMO, is that it spares Tampa one butt-ugly highrise.

The only good thing to come out of this, IMO, is that it spares Tampa one butt-ugly highrise.

Well, maybe not the only thing. If we're very lucky, some of the disgruntled Trump buyers will change over to Venu, and we get Venu instead of TTT. :)

But seriously I would like the city to develop this land into something to interact with the riverwalk better. Maybe, that would help spur some development near the Wachovia and Amsouth Towers.

I concur with Dale.

You guys are going to hate me for this but I don't see that location as a premiere location for a high rise ANYTHING (be it office tower or condo tower). While everyone wants BIGGER, creative stuff -- the lot is prime for a mid or low rise at best. I personally would rather see parkland there than a building at all. I'd like to see the low-rise tower that is next to the property demolished so the park can be extended north along the river.

I look north at downtown (the Davis Islands perspective) and the signature building from the south is Amsouth. Trump wouldn't have fit or even looked good while hugging the river and the focus. The building would have been fine to the east, but not right on the river.

There is a LOT of downtown to have the huge towers and creative architecture everyone in the forum seems to live for... This location just isn't it. It's not right. Just because it's open land doesn't mean it's prime for being paved over or built on.

Hey, John. Maybe Amon could do something along those lines. Oops! I forgot. we ran him off. ;)

Well, maybe not the only thing. If we're very lucky, some of the disgruntled Trump buyers will change over to Venu, and we get Venu instead of TTT. :)

But seriously I would like the city to develop this land into something to interact with the riverwalk better. Maybe, that would help spur some development near the Wachovia and Amsouth Towers.

I like the way you think. Venu has so captured my imagination that I'll be slightly heartbroken if it doesn't get built.

Such a shame.... :-P

I'm not the biggest fan of this project, but I really do like to see residential development downtown. In that respect, it really is a shame. Hopefully the pieces will be picked up by Venu and they can sell a few units.

Hey, John. Maybe Amon could do something along those lines. Oops! I forgot. we ran him off. ;)

LOL, good memory ;)

Ah well, enthusiasm has it's drawbacks ;)

The issue here is, does anyone know how far into the caisson process they were in?

This could be a double edged sword. If a developer is interested in a property, that will no doubt sell fairly cheap this could be a prime opportunity. Problem is the loads on a newly proposed tower would have to be dead on with what TTT had laid out.

If they were fairly deep into the process than they are screwed. Finding a project that has a similar load pattern will be tough, as the layout of the foundation would have to be identical. Its obvious that Trump has no personal interest in Tampa. Leading me to believe that the property will sit empty for a long time.

Can't say I'm suprised though.

Here is my joke about TTT because i dont see it getting built.
This is Trump Tower with its glory :lol:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u1/MK727/100_4121.jpg

No its not an illusion!!

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u1/MK727/100_4122.jpg

You guys are goign to hate me for this but I don't see that location as a premiere location for a high rise ANYTHING (be it office tower or condo tower). While everyone wnats BIGGER, creative stuff -- the lot is prime for a mid or low rise at best. I personally woudl rather see parklnad there than a building at all. I'd like to see the lowrise tower that is next to the property demolished so the park can be extended north alogn the river.
I agree with this really they can take that land and make a nice park plaza i dont see anything big being built here and really i dont know why it was proposed there in the first place i mean a huge tower like that on a two lane road?? That would tie up traffic there at times.

In general Downtown Waterfront park-land is a tremendous asset.

The issue here is, does anyone know how far into the caisson process they were in?

I don't think they had done much. There was never any real activity on the site.

I think its time that something goes up there, wheter or not its Trump. I HATE seeing blank lots on the BEST locations in the city.
Just like the 16 or so empty lots in the core.

"Best lots" brings up the entire argument again about how GOOD that lot is to begin with. It's prime riverfront location -- yes. But it's at the edge of downtown with a two lane road and a freeway boardering it. It's not a choice location for a large scale (or even upscale) condo tower.

I can understand not wanting to see a fenced off, grimy lot there... Or those surface parking lots in the core... BUt at the same time - sometimes the best development is just leaving things be. I'm not saying leave things as they are but you don't have to BUILD on the lot. As I already argued, a park would be perfect there.

You guys complaining about how the site sucks should stop thinking just about street level... The views from the western side of this tower are quite literally permanent, as there would have to be some major redevelopments and/or zoning changes for similarly tall buildings to go up in the westerly field of view.


Additionally... I'm not sure about the rich types who would have lived in TTT, but I for one would love that location, what with it being within reasonable walking distance of Franklin St, convention center, arena, the trolley (and thus Channelside and Ybor), the coming riverwalk, Bayshore and even Publix and Four Green Fields across the river. And let's not forget that this site is only a few blocks from tens of thousands of DT jobs.

I would like to think the lot won't lay fallow for long.

Earlier today, I was on the Trump website just out of curiosity to see if there were indeed any changes to the status of TTT. According to Emporis(not sure how credible), Mr. Trump was in Atlanta Friday for the opening of the sales center for yet another Trump project in the South. This may well indicate that he is no longer interested in the Tampa market, especially if he continues to forego other new projects elsewhere. If in fact he is no longer interested, then he should relinquish his namesake on the TTT project and let another developer use that friggin land for something else!!!

^^ In fact, the Trump Tower in Atlanta will be constructed by Wood Partners - the same developers as 610 Franklin. Who knew?!?!

I'm not sure a park would be a good alternative at TTT. After parking spaces, you're left with elbow room to play; perhaps a good seating area to look at the wonderful waterfront? I do think it's a great location for a hi-rise, hopefully TTT still. It would be a nice gateway coming from Bayshore or Hyde Park towards Channelside and St Pete Times Forum, similar to what we get off Venu coming from W. Kennedy and UT.

I would love to see a high rise at that location. I think it IS a very good location for a large tower. Its all about location.

I'm not sure a park would be a good alternative at TTT. After parking spaces, you're left with elbow room to play; perhaps a good seating area to look at the wonderful waterfront? I do think it's a great location for a hi-rise, hopefully TTT still. It would be a nice gateway coming from Bayshore or Hyde Park towards Channelside and St Pete Times Forum, similar to what we get off Venu coming from W. Kennedy and UT.


There are 100's of parking spaces diagonally across the street from the lot so parking spaces wouldn't be needed for a park but.....

There is already millions of dollars worth of Caison work on the lot. Something tall will be built there. Maybe not 52 stories but the land would be way to expensive for something small.

I say this project is still a GO! The Related Group is now involved and THEY have a proven track record. Their success with this project will lead them to invest further in Tampa. I would much rather have them as the developer then Simdag or Mirabellis. These are REAL developers with deep pockets.
I agree the wait is frustrating but did any of us really expect them to immediately start turning dirt just weeks after announcing they are taking the lead on this thing? Projects this big take time to move forward and once they get their due diligence out of the way, things WILL move quickly.
In the end, we will all look back and be very happy they got involved and are STILL involved in Tampa where Simdag and the others were just looking to cash out and make a quick buck.

Can somebody explain to me why the Related people would spend all of that money to buy into a project like Trump, and then not develope it. Would they not lose a bucket load of money?

Was driving by the site today and noticed that the big Toni Everett/Trump Tower sign has been removed from the site. Looks like they just sawed it off of it's posts, as the posts were still sticking up from the ground a bit.

Wouldn't want to say the project is dead because of this, but I would think they'd have a replacement sign up the same day if that was what they were doing here...

Can somebody explain to me why the Related people would spend all of that money to buy into a project like Trump, and then not developed it. Would they not lose a bucket load of money?
They never closed the deal from what I understand, because of the continuing presence of liens.

Gotcha...so does that mean it is technically under Mirabellis still?

"...sawed off at the posts..."

Wow. What an ignominious finale.

There was an ad today in the neighborhood section of the Tribune for TTT put there by the Toni Everett group. It may not be worth more than the ink it was printed on but it had a banner at the top of the add saying "Construction to resume soon". Being that it was put out by a sales organization I'm hesitant to think there's any substance to it.

You can go back in this thread and see Everett has been trying to stoke the flames of TTT for a few months now.

I call "Bullshit" on her ad.

As I see it, Trump Tower will rise from the ground here, guys. For me, one word secures the outcome: EGO! :2cents:

I suspect that any day now Forrest Trump, himself, will announce that he's secured financing for the project and construction will begin any month/year now . . . or he'll file for bankruptcy thus making it impossible for him to pay for the project out of his back pocket and he'll be forced to sell to a tribe of indians who'll eventually open up a casino with an outdoor fishing peer and call it TeePee Tower Tampa.
Sooooo you may as well get used to the dysfunctional skyline shots with the most perfect of all towers, Trump Tower Tampa, or one helluva tall teepee. (that's a 'dig' - get it, 'dig'?) :lol:

Suddenly, I have this craving for ego, ahem, I mean eggo waffles with lots of maple syrup and all. ;)

My dad spoke to Trump at the WWE Wrestlemania, and he told me that Trump is extremely pissed off that this is going on.
Though my dad did not ask if he was going to do anything about it. Lol....

When I was downtown last week the day after the bad weather the sign was knocked over and laying in the turn lane to go over the bridge.(I actually saw what looked to be a homeless person try to lift it to see what it was.)My opinion is that the sign was taken away for safety reasons by the city and probably the legs were sawed even so they werent like spears.

My dad spoke to Trump at the WWE Wrestlemania, and he told me that Trump is extremely pissed off that this is going on.
Though my dad did not ask if he was going to do anything about it. Lol....

He vowed that he was at one point.

My dad spoke to Trump at the WWE Wrestlemania, and he told me that Trump is extremely pissed off that this is going on.
Though my dad did not ask if he was going to do anything about it. Lol....

Your dad is Jerry Brisco?

Your dad is Jerry Brisco?

Yes sir.

^Heh. Small world....

Yes sir.

Well, shit, I should be calling you sir...

Your dad still booking or what's his function right now? I haven't been following wrestling as much as I did a few years ago... Once Vince bought WCW, things sorta degraded. But I do remember your dad and him pitching his auto shop among other duties.

Well, shit, I should be calling you sir...

Your dad still booking or what's his function right now? I haven't been following wrestling as much as I did a few years ago... Once Vince bought WCW, things sorta degraded. But I do remember your dad and him pitching his auto shop among other duties.

Yeah! Speaking of pitching cuz of him and Paul White (BIG Show) I got to throw the opening pitch with Big Show at a devil rays game when I was younger, like 10 or something I don't remeber lol.
We still got that body shop too! MLK and Hubert Ave.
My dad is a recruiter and producer.
And I'm only 18 so no need to call me sir man lol! Dude will do.

Yeah but how can I look like a kiss ass without calling you sir? :p :)

I deeply respect the industry and the performers. I get tired of some of the fanboys who can critique performers but don't exactly understand what these guys are going through. Paul is a great example -- huge talent but he didn't get over in either production (WCW/WWE) as the monster Vince had hoped -- but he still is a great personality and great addition to any roster.

And to continue off topic, maybe you know and maybe not but does Dean Malenko still live around here?

Yeah but how can I look like a kiss ass without calling you sir? :p :)

I deeply respect the industry and the performers. I get tired of some of the fanboys who can critique performers but don't exactly understand what these guys are going through. Paul is a great example -- huge talent but he didn't get over in either production (WCW/WWE) as the monster Vince had hoped -- but he still is a great personality and great addition to any roster.

And to continue off topic, maybe you know and maybe not but does Dean Malenko still live around here?

I'm not sure. I do know that Test, Jericho, Show, Edge, Christian, and a few others still do.
Test lives in Harbour Island :)

so does batista I actually talk to himpretty often at my gym(Golds)

Is this still the Tampa Trump Tower thread? Or has is changed to a I know so and so in wrestling thread?:bash:

Well, hey at least on the upside the thread actually has some new and interesting information for a change. Drove by the Trump block last evening and aside from the crane being vertical there has been no changes in months.

I'm not sure. I do know that Test, Jericho, Show, Edge, Christian, and a few others still do.
Test lives in Harbour Island :)

I only brought up Malenko because they heralded him in his old intros as being from here.

I knew Jericho, Edge and Christian live around here... Jericho wrote on his web site once that he lived close by to them. Hogan just moved to Miami and left Bellair.

Test, I didn't know about. I do recall Undertaker making a local appearence while away from the federation a few years ago (and the Times saying he lives in the region - maybe Sarasota).

And I apologize to everyone for going so far off topic like this. It's just an interesting twist to the area (home for Pro wrestlers) as well as a interest of mine (the back stage stuff and non-on-screen things with pro-wrestling).

Anyway, anyone wanna put up odds on TTT ever getting started again?

I only brought up Malenko because they heralded him in his old intros as being from here.

I knew Jericho, Edge and Christian live around here... Jericho wrote on his web site once that he lived close by to them. Hogan just moved to Miami and left Bellair.

Test, I didn't know about. I do recall Undertaker making a local appearence while away from the federation a few years ago (and the Times saying he lives in the region - maybe Sarasota).

And I apologize to everyone for going so far off topic like this. It's just an interesting twist to the area (home for Pro wrestlers) as well as a interest of mine (the back stage stuff and non-on-screen things with pro-wrestling).

Anyway, anyone wanna put up odds on TTT ever getting started again?

I've never heard of any of those people...except for Hulk Hogan.

Chris Jericho is a performer who came up through WCW and then went to the WWE (aka the WWF) in the late 1990's. Edge and Christian were tag team partners who came up through the WWE in the late 1990's as well. Test was a roadie or security for a band and also joined pro wrestling in the late 1990's.

Dean Malenko was just a scrub performer with the WCW in the 1990's and possibly earlier (not sure how much earlier). And the Undertaker had been a performer in the WWF/WWE since the late 80's.

Most of the guys JB has mentioned are current performers (who have come through during the last 10 years) and aren't members of the pack of performers who made wrestling a pop phenomenon in the 1980's (a la Hogan). The Undertaker is the only exception (but JB didn't mention him -- I did ;) )

I mentioned his dad -- last time I saw him (on TV) he was playing a role on screen just as a "Stooge" to Vince McMahon. Yet many people who only have limited involvement on screen (such as JB's father) usually have integral roles in the operations of any wrestling federation.

But I digress. If I keep explaining things I am going to end up having to define "push", "face", "heel", "kayfabe", "bookers" and a host of other terms from the industry.

Big Show lives where Undertake used to, which is down the street from me by East Lake Rd.

Is this still the Tampa Trump Tower thread? Or has is changed to a I know so and so in wrestling thread?:bash:

Might as well change it to wrestling. Nothing else going on here, unless you like weeds and rusting cranes.

Alright guys, the lack of activity for TTT may intice off topic discussion but this still is the Trump Tower of Tampa Thread. Whether the project moves ahead now or not. :)

I drove by the "site" today and the second crane is now being removed. Trump is too busy gloating over Rosie's departure to work on a tower. More info from the Tampa Business Journal (though I think I'm calling BS on the explanation, the barricades were removed a while ago...):

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/04/23/daily35.html?jst=b_ln_hl

Crane being removed from Trump Tower Tampa site

The crane at Trump Tower Tampa's Ashley Drive site is coming down Wednesday, serving as a grim reminder that nothing has taken place at the construction site since last year.

SimDag LLC was forced to remove the crane because city officials want barricades removed from the southbound lane of Ashley Drive, said Eric Fordin, incoming project executive for Trump Tower Tampa from Miami-based Related Group.


City officials had informed SimDag in February that it would need to either resume construction or re-open the street -- closed at the beginning of 2006, just months before the project's official groundbreaking -- which takes traffic into Brorein Street.

Work won't resume for at least some time, however, as Related Group continues to negotiate to take over the project, Fordin said.

"We're still in the due diligence phase of our partnership," he said. "We have nothing on paper with them."

Related Group is still reviewing some of the foundation issues that have plagued the project, blamed for last year's work stoppage, Fordin said.

When the firm does officially take over the project, it won't be done quietly. "When we come to town, the whole community is going to know," Fordin said.

Calls to Irvin Lee, Tampa's director of public works, were pending return.

I second the BS call.

Also, I love this line:Work won't resume for at least some time...

That's either the best euphemism or the worst copyediting I've seen in... quite some time.

Anyone catch the article in the May issue of Maxim, interviewing Ivanka Trump? They went over a number of the Trump properties currently under construction or development. I sort of chuckled at the fact TTT was not listed. Amusing article aside, I'm afraid I am officially calling this project dead.

Trump Tower could shrink (http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/03/Business/Trump_Tower_could_shr.shtml)

The much-delayed condo project may be adjusted to fit the slower market.

By James Thorner, Times Staff Writer
Published May 3, 2007

The architectural plans for Trump Tower Tampa may not be set in marble and glass.

The Miami development company negotiating to take over the much-delayed Tampa high-rise suggests the project be revamped to reflect a changing real estate market.

"I think there will be a project built there, " said Eric Fordin, a project manager at the Related Group. "But I'm not sure what form it will take."

That means what's been marketed as the tallest condo skyscraper on Florida's West Coast - with 52 stories and 190 condominiums - could be downsized. But Fordin wouldn't confirm that a cutback was on the table.

"It's just a matter of whether the project planned is the right plan, " he said.

Since its sales launch in February 2005, Trump Tower has trumpeted itself as not just the highest skyscraper, but also most luxurious residential address.

The timing turned out to be poor for developer SimDag LLC. Banks have shied from financing the $300-million building, wary of a housing downturn that has tossed thousands of unsold condos onto the Tampa area market.

Trump Tower, designed with condos ranging from $700, 000 to $6.2-million, remains little more than a grassy acre at 111 S. Ashley Drive on the Hillsborough River. At least two buyers have sued to recover their deposits, and contractors remain unpaid.

Fordin said his company, builder of several Trump condo towers in South Florida, is still trying to hammer out a deal with SimDag. Acquiring the Trump site would be one prong of a larger leap into the Tampa market, he said.

"There's nothing on paper. We're still in negotiations, " Fordin said of SimDag. "We know this is time-sensitive."

One possibility is that SimDag will cut ties with the project entirely. "Part of SimDag would love to be involved in the deal, " Fordin said. "Part of them would like to go home."

SimDag couldn't be reached for comment.

One principal Related hopes to keep around is Donald Trump, the New York tycoon who agreed to license his name to the building for a share of the profits. Fordin said Trump is "comfortable" with a transfer of ownership.

James Thorner can be reached at thorner@sptimes.com or (813) 226-3313

To all the people who were lauding Related, read this quote again:

"I think there will be a project built there, " said Eric Fordin, a project manager at the Related Group. "But I'm not sure what form it will take."

The horse's mouth as they say.

To all the people who were lauding Related, read this quote again:



The horse's mouth as they say.

How does that mitigate against any enthusiasm about Related taking over the project ? What has SimDag done ? By way of comparison, what has Related done ?

The [potential] new player is effectively saying the existing project isn't feasible. That's not good news to everyone waiting for TTT to go vertical. SimDag got in over their head's. Related has just crunched the numbers and realized what SimDag did, it doesn't make sense to start construction.

If they change the project significantly the buyers will have to get a chance to leave and you have to believe a lot are going to take it (some are already suing). This will be interesting to watch. On one hand they need to change the project, on the other hand that might screw up their chance at pre-sales.

The [potential] new player is effectively saying the existing project isn't feasible. That's not good news to everyone waiting for TTT to go vertical. SimDag got in over their head's. Related has just crunched the numbers and realized what SimDag did, it doesn't make sense to start construction.

If they change the project significantly the buyers will have to get a chance to leave and you have to believe a lot are going to take it (some are already suing). This will be interesting to watch. On one hand they need to change the project, on the other hand that might screw up their chance at pre-sales.

Hence, Related is to be lauded in any case.

^ I'm not sure if lauded is the right term, they just crunched the numbers. Like anyone else, Related is out to make a buck.

As far as I'm concerned, TTT as we know it is KIA. Notice how the quote says "a project" not "this project". The lot won't stay empty forever, that's not a big shocker.

^ I'm not sure if lauded is the right term, they just crunched the numbers. Like anyone else, Related is out to make a buck.

As far as I'm concerned, TTT as we know it is KIA. Notice how the quote says "a project" not "this project". The lot won't stay empty forever, that's not a big shocker.

I get it. You just want us to stop lauding Related.

I don't think this is neccessarily a bad thing. Being that it is right on the river, from Bayshore and Davis Island, it would block much of the skyline (and I love the view from the southern portion of Bayshore). This way, perhaps at 30 or so stories, we still get a highrise, and still get views from outside of downtown. I think the 50 and 60 story buildings should be built in the core, such as where Tampa Tower is located.

^They can't be built where they belong, because the rich people using POK airport can't be inconvenienced to drive 20 minutes out of town to fly their private jet from Vandenburg instead... So POK airport remains open, and much of the vertical development trying to occur in SE DT gets the shaft...

I think that's fine... Just so long as the people using POK airport pay a tax which offsets the lost tax revenues from the devaluation of property which cannot be utilized to its fullest use because of FAA imposed height restrictions.

Devaluation of property? Actually the high restrictions are increasing property value. Simple supply and demand my friend.

That's why downtown condos in Miami are pretty similar in price to condos up here because they build 60-80 story towers and we build 30-45 story towers.

^That's a nice observation, but it has little to do with what I'm talking about, which is taxable value for the district, not individual condo units.

Perhaps an individual unit is more valuable here, but the overall taxable value of the whole block is significantly less than it would be without the height restrictions.

I am hoping for something that is more interesting and fits in with the overall skyline better. And it would be probably good for the Trump name to stick instead of having Tampa look like we can't play with in the Big League with Chicago, NYC, etc.(the NFL doesn't count). I mean this would be our answer to not having a Ritz Carlton(ORL, SARASOTA) or Waldorf Astoria(ORL-WDW)

Sorry to say but I'm pretty sure this is a dead project.
Well Trump considered Tampa.

I have long that that's Trump's involvement was way overplayed. He doesn't have a lot of involvement in many of the "Trump" properties (the brand of his last name is a pretty profitable niche in the real estate business, for a number of reasons). In this case SimDag wanted to build a posh tower, made up the plans and then paid Trump for his name.

Trump didn't consider Tampa any more than he considered the dozens of other similar projects. A developer considered Tampa and screwed it up. The fault lies on the developer who not only tried to mislead people about Trump's involvement (though that didn't fool natural skeptics like myself) but mislead themselves in the notion they could actually build the tower.

^That goes along with what has pretty much already been said. Trump has indeed frachised his name to developers that want to use it. However, despite this, everyone with common knowledge about the subject instantly assumes that if it has Trump's name on it, it is a project by Trump himself. That's why the talk of Donald's ego taking over has been just that. Trump wants people to see "his" projects succeed, but unless he purchases the project, he has very little power to do that.

Trump Asks Developer To Stop Using His Name
Posted May 29, 2007 by Vidisha Priyanka
Updated May 29, 2007 at 04:22 PM


By Shannon Behnken
The Tampa Tribune

Troubles continue to mount for SimDag LLC, the developer of the Trump Tower Tampa project.

Real estate mogul Donald Trump, who licensed the use of his name to SimDag for the 52-story project, has filed suit against the developer in federal court in Tampa, claiming SimDag is in breech of its contract.

The suit alleges that SimDag is in default of payments owed on the $2.8 million licensing fee. Under the agreement the developer is supposed to make monthly payments of $129,091, but SimDag hasn’t made payments since October 2006 and now owes Trump more than $1 million, the lawsuit states.

SimDag has failed to live up to the licensing agreement, which required construction on the luxury condominium building to start by April 27, 2006 and to have sales contracts for 70 percent of the condominium units by April 27, 2007.

Trump sent SimDag a letter earlier this month seeking to terminate the licensing agreement.

SimDag executives could not be reached for comment Tuesday. Trump declined to comment but said through an assistant, Rhona Graff : “The lawsuit speaks for itself.”

Trump Tower Tampa was announced with much fanfare in early 2005 but the project ran into financing and construction difficulties. In recent months some buyers have sued the developer, seeking their deposits back.


http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/newswire/story/trump-asks-developer-to-stop-using-his-name/

I would've let them use my name for half of that.

Ha. Just as I thought, Trump's net from the tower was little more than a rounding error. No wonder they didn't want to release the numbers before.

I recall arguing this point with someone a few months back -- what would be happening or what could happen that will kill the project. And here it is!

Here lies Trump Tower of Tampa... May she rest in pieces.

oik maybe they can put Tampa Towers there in its 200m glory!

Yep, for those folks who were still in denial, it's definitely dead now... Seems as though everyone is rushing those lawsuits in, so that they can get something in return when SimDag inevitably liquidates in Bankruptcy Court a few months...



[edited:clarity]

I went back and read some of the start of this thread. This article especially was interesting. It gives the background of SimDag and really shows how unprepared they were. In retrospect it's pretty easy to see.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=3329624&postcount=22

I saw this coming since they delayed the tower its dead build something else on it!

oik maybe they can put Tampa Towers there in its 200m glory!

This is where I have a problem -- just cuz I've expressed the concern over and over again ;)

The lot isn't the best location for a skycraper that rivals or dwarfs Amsouth. I could see a midrise going in (27 floors or under) with a unique architecture. I do not like the idea of a cities tallest going there, or so anything that blocks Amsouth out.

Tampa Tower (another project that's got no beef behind it) would be better in the location where it was proposed -- more east.

I went back and read some of the start of this thread. This article especially was interesting. It gives the background of SimDag and really shows how unprepared they were. In retrospect it's pretty easy to see.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=3329624&postcount=22


It was Mirabalis (to me) that proved this project was dead. They are an equity company or what not... They have land to their name but nothing else. It's like Amon Investments but without the ambition. Oh, they TALKED a nice game and gave people confidence but in the end? Just the undertaker, digging the grave for the body.

That's sad to hear. Trump Toronto has had its share of problems too, it has been bumped from 72 stories to 57. No longer reigning supreme over Toronto's financial district.

This is where I have a problem -- just cuz I've expressed the concern over and over again ;)

The lot isn't the best location for a skycraper that rivals or dwarfs Amsouth. I could see a midrise going in (27 floors or under) with a unique architecture. I do not like the idea of a cities tallest going there, or so anything that blocks Amsouth out.

Tampa Tower (another project that's got no beef behind it) would be better in the location where it was proposed -- more east.

I was kidding, I would like to see a mid rise there too.
Tampa Tower would have to be redesigned in order to fit on that particular lot and I'm not for that, beucase I think Tampa Tower would be an absolute architectural masterpiece.

This is where I have a problem -- just cuz I've expressed the concern over and over again ;)

The lot isn't the best location for a skycraper that rivals or dwarfs Amsouth. I could see a midrise going in (27 floors or under) with a unique architecture. I do not like the idea of a cities tallest going there, or so anything that blocks Amsouth out.


OK, now sit back and think objectively about what you just wrote... Think about the relevance of such a remark as it may apply to Tampa in 25 years, or 100 years. Or how it would apply in another city, like Chicago, Miami, Atlanta, Houston, wherever... And lastly think about the ridiculous lawsuit the city just lost (twice) with Citivest over controlling scale when it is within the zoning... and then you'll realize that such concerns are kinda unwarranted... And in this case, would also deny a right already granted the landowner.


ps... Anyone who thinks that the DT skyline will end in perpetuity at the river is sorely mistaken.

OK, sit back and relax and think of relevance of the lot and it's location -- two lane road boardered by an expressway, the river and a two lane road. Yeah, a 50+ story condo tower REALLY fits the bill and will continue to fit the bill in the foreseeable future :rolleyes:

I don't care of the city lost the Citivest case twice -- that's the boards screw up for not finding a legit reason. If Sim Dag proposes another tower on the site that rivals Amsouth in size and is supposed to be residential and large scale -- there's an inherit problem there that goes back to the city council approving SimDag's first plan which was out of place to begin with.

I won't even get into putting Miami and Chicago into this conversation... an orange to apple orchards comparisons/discussion points don't work discussing Tampa. Not now at least. Not for the forseeable future.

The river site is in downtown Tampa, so therefore it can have a skyscraper of any size. 52 stories fits in with the rest of the skyline, and I feel dumping that for a 27 story building would be a waste which I can see is happening now.

OK, sit back and relax and think of relevance of the lot and it's location -- two lane road boardered by an expressway, the river and a two lane road. Yeah, a 50+ story condo tower REALLY fits the bill and will continue to fit the bill in the foreseeable future :rolleyes:
I can assure you that there are tall buildings bordering such things in just about every city on this planet that actually has an appreciable number of highrises.

The land is zoned what it is zoned, and the market will build what it will build, within those guidelines.

I've completely lost faith in this tower and I'm not surprised one bit that Trump wants to pull out. As soon as the huge delays arose, I knew the project would be doomed. They might as well tear down what is there and hand things over to another developer. Maybe one that will build something more appealing than this mess. :ohno:

They might as well tear down what is there and hand things over to another developer.

Luckily there is nothing there. They just tested the soil. There were cranes, but never any caisson drills. These days cars park on the Northern edge of the site during the day.

The SP Times weighs in:

(Turns out Trump had a really sweet deal... Not only monthly payments from SimDag and no financial risk, but 50% of any profits. I'd take that!)

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/30/Business/Tampa_tower_loses_Tru.shtml

Trump Tower Tampa has lost its biggest asset: the Trump name itself.

New York tycoon Donald Trump has terminated his contract with SimDag, the Tampa development team behind the proposed $300-million condo tower long touted as west Florida's tallest and most luxurious.

Trump's defection could be fatal to a project launched with fanfare in February 2005 but pelted with construction liens and lawsuits as the housing market soured.

Trump-branded towers are under construction or already built in cities ranging from Chicago and New York to Miami and Las Vegas, but in the end Tampa apparently didn't have the right stuff.

"We could continue without Trump, but I don't know if we'd even want to, " said Eric Fordin of the Related Group, a Miami developer SimDag enlisted this year to try to save the project.

In a lawsuit filed Friday in federal court, Trump sounded like a man whose patience was spent.

Trump accused SimDag of defaulting on eight months of licensing fees worth $1.03-million.

Aside from the monthly installments, the contract entitled Trump to 50 percent of the profits on the sale of 190 condos worth between $700, 000 and $6.2-million.

SimDag also failed to provide "bona fide purchase contracts" for 70 percent of the condos, a requirement the company was obliged to meet by April 27.

Trump's licensing agreement with SimDag left planning, marketing, construction and financing in SimDag's hands. But the lawsuit alleges the Tampa partners didn't fulfill their end of the bargain.

"SimDag failed and refused to comply with those obligations and responsibilities, " Trump's lawsuit said in seeking damages, interest and attorneys fees from the former partner.

Neither SimDag nor its spokesman David Hooks could be reached for comment.

SimDag principal Frank Dagostino dreamed up the 52-story luxury tower in 2004 and brought Trump aboard in October of that year. At the ritzy rollout in February 2005, Trump whirled into town with his then-fiancee and bragged about selling out the project.

Investors scooped up many units, but SimDag failed to hook financing. Banks shied from pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into a Tampa Bay area housing market stagnant with thousands of unsold condos.

Tampa officials looked to the tower, one of several new condo high-rises, to help revitalize its central business district. But the proposal never shook criticism that its fancy penthouses and gold-trimmed living may have suited Miami and New York but clashed with Tampa's middlebrow image.

Though the tower is now Trump-less, interest remains in the 1-acre site at 111 S Ashley Drive on the Hillsborough River.

The Related Group has talked about going it alone on a scaled down version of Trump Tower. Last year, Trump himself discussed acquiring the land and assets.

But any second round would likely occur absent SimDag, which owes millions of dollars to Trump, former contractors and depositors. Critics of the project speculate that SimDag will seek protection from creditors through bankruptcy.

"Maybe we come in and bring Trump back, " said Fordin, whose company has built Trump condos in and around Miami. "No one knows the other guys. People know Trump."

Trump-branded towers are under construction or already built in cities ranging from Chicago and New York to Miami and Las Vegas, but in the end Tampa apparently didn't have the right stuff.

This is the Times BS that causes me to not buy their papers. The fact that the developer was screwed up says nothing about the market. They are just ass-holes.

Wasn't Trump full of spit-and-vinegar a few months ago, vowing to get this built even if he had to fund it ?

^Yeah, and you believed him...

:)


Smiley... Oh come on now...

^Yeah, and you believed him...

:)


Smiley... Oh come on now...

He's right, this had absolutely nothing to do with the market. It was the fact that the company bite more than they could chew.

Trump Dispute Hinders Riverwalk

http://www.tbo.com/news/nationworld/MGBFB7PMC2F.html

City officials cheered last week when Gov. Charlie Crist approved $2 million for the Riverwalk project.

But that euphoria is gone now that the Trump Tower condominium project, which promised to contribute up to $700,000 to build a prominent Riverwalk segment, is on hold while Donald Trump battles the developer in court.

"If they do not build, then we've got a key connection that is not being made," said Lee Hoffman, the city's Riverwalk manager. "It's a significant piece."

With the fate of the condominium project uncertain, the city must contemplate building the segment on its own.

A city ordinance requires developers who are building along the Riverwalk's 2.3-mile stretch - from the Channel District to Tampa Heights - to pay for segments at their properties.

For example, the Heights project developers are contributing $4 million to the project. Developers for Venu, a condo project in the planning stages for Kennedy Boulevard and Ashley Drive, promised to build an $800,000 piece.

SimDag LLC, the Trump Tower developer, was to build a 450-foot piece to connect the southern edge of the Brorein Street Bridge to nearby MacDill Park.

Mayor Pam Iorio said the city has a couple of options if Trump Tower does not get built. Tampa can build a regular sidewalk connecting the southern and northern ends of the Riverwalk and if a developer for the site comes through later, that developer can build its own Riverwalk segment.

"Not a very appealing option," Iorio said.

Or the city can design and build the segment across the Hillsborough River and then ask a developer to contribute retroactively.

The Riverwalk project is expected to cost about $40 million, with $16 million coming from public sources and the remaining $24 million from private donations. To date, the city has secured about $7.6 million on the public side and about $7.4 million on the private side. Five of the 21 sections of the Riverwalk have been completed, representing about six-tenths of a mile.

Iorio touts the Riverwalk as an economic development engine and a place for future downtown dwellers to eat, exercise, and attend concerts and other events.

Last month, the city broke ground on the Platt Street Bridge segment, which will connect the Tampa Convention Center with USF Park. It will cost about $2.6 million, with much of the money coming from the Florida Department of Transportation.

The segment next to the new Tampa Bay History Center is up next, probably in September.

Trump sued SimDag LLC, the developer who had plans to build a 52-story condominium at the southern edge of Ashley Drive, throwing the long-troubled project into further jeopardy. Trump argues that he is owed money for the rights to use his name on the project. The developers are yet to break ground on the building.

SimDag's troubles also could affect the Tampa Museum of Art's new building. SimDag made a three-part pledge to the museum in 2005. The company made its first payment. The company was to make a second payment when the condo was topped off, and a final payment was to coincide with the grand opening.

An art museum official said Wednesday that the museum wasn't counting on the money. He wouldn't disclose how much the company had pledged but said it was less than $1 million.