Lack Of Money Stalls Condo Projects
By SHANNON BEHNKEN, The Tampa Tribune

Published: May 31, 2007

TAMPA - Even a power name like Trump may not be enough to save a luxury condo project in Tampa's sluggish downtown real estate market.

It takes money. Money from lenders. Money from buyers.

In the end, SimDag LLC, the local developer trying to build Trump Tower Tampa, couldn't come up with enough from either source, and Donald Trump now says he wants to terminate his contract with the developer and pull his name off the building.

'How many chances could I give' SimDag? Trump asked The Tampa Tribune in a telephone interview Wednesday. Trump filed a lawsuit Friday seeking more than $1 million in unpaid fees from the developer.

So the question is: Does it matter now who tries to build the project?

Trump's lawsuit, combined with a slow market flooded with new condos, could make it difficult for any condo developer to build there for a while, real estate and banking experts say.

'In this real estate downturn, Tampa has been one of the hardest-hit markets in Florida,' said Jack McCabe, of McCabe Research Consulting in Deerfield Beach. 'And any time you have a negative stigma like this site has, it takes some time before people are willing to overlook it.'

Trump said Wednesday that the project should have been a success and he'd like to see a condo tower on the site eventually. He said he'd still like to be involved, if the price is right.

'I think that's the best site in Tampa,' he said. 'The market isn't as good in Tampa as in other cities, but this is the best time to start planning a project because it may be a good market again when you're ready.'

SimDag, through a spokesman, declined comment.

The $300 million, 52-story Trump Tower Tampa was announced for a site at 111 S. Ashley Drive along the Hillsborough River in early January 2005, at time when Tampa's condo market was coming alive. Developers were proposing new projects every month. If any of them would make it, experts said at the time, it would be the one bearing Trump's name.

The Trump name was so valuable to SimDag that the company agreed to pay $2.8 million and turn over 50 percent of the profit on the 190 condos that were selling for $700,000 to more than $6 million, court documents show.

However, the developer ran into problems with unstable ground, rising construction costs, and buyers dropping out.

The contract with Trump required SimDag to start building by April 27, 2006, and to have sold at least 70 percent of the condo units by April 27 of this year.

Even during the condo frenzy when the Trump tower was announced, lenders typically required developers to sell a set amount of units before getting financing. In the current market, however, some lenders require close to 100 percent sales. Now many lenders aren't lending for condo towers at all.

National City Mortgage, which is involved in several condo towers in downtown Florida cities, has stopped partnering on others for now, said Paul Ramos, state manager for the company.

'Banks may still lend on condo projects, but they want to know what your market is going to be,' Ramos said, noting that his mortgage division still works with individual condo buyers but limits the number of units it will finance in each condo project.

Mike Larson, a Jupiter-based real estate analyst with Weiss Research, has watched the Trump project in Tampa closely. He said he thinks the site will sit empty for at least a year before new plans emerge.

'I think it's fair to say the timing is just off and the developers have missed the boat,' Larson said. 'Any builder will tell you they have some feature, or in this case the Trump name, but it comes down to demand. If you didn't have your project already in the pipeline a few years ago with the whole thing lined up, it's likely not to get built now.'

Reporter Shannon Behnken can be reached at (813) 259-7804 or

sbehnken@tampatrib.com.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/may/31/bz-lack-of-money-stalls-condo-projects/?news-money

This project will work in Tampa, just not at this point in time. Maybe wait another 2-3 years when the market recovers in 2009-2010 and it can be built.

Turn this lot and the 610 Franklin lot into parks and build tall in the a block or two inland - like the lot just south of the Ft. BRooke Garage which will have unobstructed waterviews until the convention center gets torn down. We need streets with retail and trees and parks . . .

^I would actually favor the park solution if they could secure the little office building too (which I believe SimDag bought, right?), and make it one big park... THAT would actually make sense.

^I would actually favor the park solution if they could secure the little office building too (which I believe SimDag bought, right?), and make it one big park... THAT would actually make sense.

Yes Simdag does own that building. A park would be a good option there, especially if properly combined with McDill Park north of the white building.

Now all the city needs is some millions that they don't know what else to do with. :D

He's right, this had absolutely nothing to do with the market. It was the fact that the company bite more than they could chew.


While I wouldn't agree with the assesment about Tampa not having the "right stuff" I think that the market perhaps didn't help the issue. I've seen far worse companies than Simdag make projects like this work.

The fact is that most in the business knew this project was having problems for a while now. I personally went on record record at UP after Katrina when material prices spiked and eventually went into allocation.

I'm so livid about that Times comment on Tampa - it's clearly the developer, not the fucking city. Booo them. I'm close to writing a little complaint.

Aww jeez people... I wouldn't read so much into it...

At least the Times can hire people who know how to write. Their recent website update seems pretty nice as well. TBO.com hasn't been retooled since DSL was high-tech.

At least the Times can hire people who know how to write. Their recent website update seems pretty nice as well. TBO.com hasn't been retooled since DSL was high-tech.

Oh, I love the Times in general. Tampabay.com is WONDERFUL. The staff is wonderful. I've spent quite a bit of time with them - I'm one of the Barnes Scholars (so now you can sooo easily figure out who I am.... meh...).... I love the paper, but that line was dripping with BS. They know what they're doing.

We're going to see a lot of these... I wonder where the money is. This is the wrong group of people to scam (they all have money and lawyers).

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/05/28/daily35.html?t=printable

Trump Tower Tampa penthouse buyer: Where's my $1.2 million?

The buyer of a $6.15 million Trump Tower Tampa penthouse, slated to be an 8,000-square-foot masterpiece, says the $1.2 million he had in escrow can't be found and now he's ready for a fight.

"This was going to be the place among places," said Alan Bridges, CEO of GotRack.com warehouse supply superstores in Tampa and Orlando.

Bridges has been reluctant to go public with details about his experience as an upper-echelon buyer in the now-failed Trump Tower Tampa project -- until now. When news hit this week that Donald Trump himself was suing Tampa developer SimDag in federal court and looking to pull his name from the project, Bridges got the green light from his lawyers to speak his mind.

The whole project was never handled at a level of which Trump's name should be on it, Bridges said.

"This was Trump Tower. Now, with him wanting to take his name off it, it has added fuel to the fire," he said. "My intent is to pursue SimDag and Toni Everett and Donald Trump for fraud, up to and including criminal charges if applicable."

Everett, a Tampa luxury real estate agent and the project's exclusive broker, wasn't available for comment late Thursday. A return call was pending. Everett still has the Trump project as active and listed on her Web site with prices starting at $1 million.

But where Bridges' escrow money is, nobody knows, he said. His repeated attempts to reach SimDag principals have been fruitless.

"We've had countless meetings scheduled and countless meetings cancelled," Bridges said. "There's been no intent on building the project for 10 months so how is it that we can't get our money back?" he said. "We sought e-mail demanding proof of escrow and a disposition of the escrow funds and got nothing."

Listed telephone numbers for Frank Dagostino and SimDag are no longer in operation. A call was also pending return from a local PR representative who has been a spokesman for the developer.

Big money at risk
When Bridges opted to put the penthouse under contract in 2005, he was required to put down a guaranteed 20 percent in a deposit in the form of cash and an irrevocable letter of credit, he said.

"I think I paid the record for Tampa at $1,000 a square foot for preconstruction, and then they used that fact as intimidation or comparison with other individuals thinking about buying by saying 'are you kidding me? Alan Bridges paid $1,000 a square foot, your $900 a square foot is a bargain.'"

Bridges does a large amount of charity work for organizations such as Make-A-Wish Foundation and the Florida Aquarium among others and planned to make the penthouse available for many fundraising events.

"As far as I'm concerned, I believe myself and this town has been duped," he told the Tampa Bay Business Journal Thursday. He joins several other buyers who have been outspoken about their experiences with the project.

New York real estate mogul Trump filed his lawsuit in federal court May 25 claiming that the builder of the proposed $309 million, 52-story tower bearing his name reneged on its agreement to get the tower up and payment for licensing fees. Named in the lawsuit were SimDag/RoBEL LLC along with Frank Dagostino, Howard Howell, Robert Lyons, Patrick Sheppard and Jody Simon, some current but mostly former partners on the project.

In January 2005, Trump said groundbreaking on the project was "weeks away."

"We are developing a signature landmark property so spectacular that it will redefine both Tampa's skyline and the market's expectations of luxurious condominium living," he said, flanked by his wife, to a tent full of VIP guests and dignitaries. "Trump Tower Tampa will undoubtedly have a phenomenal impact on the city."

So far, it doesn't appear to be quite the impact Trump envisioned.

^^^ I was curious on how these higher priced penthouse were feeling about all this. My gut feeling was right on. These people need answers or their money back, bottom line. Nothing has been fullfilled at all. Total BS!!

what a mess, how sad

Turn Trump Troubles Into City Triumph
The Tampa Tribune
(opinion)

Published: June 11, 2007

The collapse of the Trump Tower project gives the city of Tampa a chance to buy the tiny downtown tract on the Hillsborough River, a plot that is wholly inappropriate for a skyscraper.

A 52-story condominium on this postage-stamp parcel would wall off the river and create an oppressive concrete canyon along the water.

Plagued by engineering problems, financial challenges and a slumping real estate market, the outlook for Tampa ever seeing this Trump Tower is bleak. Donald Trump says he is owed money for lending his name to the venture and is suing the developer.

It's a good time for the city to make a move.

Mayor Pam Iorio, to her credit, is investigating the possibility of buying the land in conjunction with Florida Communities Trust, a state land acquisition program that partners with local governments to buy urban parcels. The land could become part of the Mayor's Riverwalk project.

In recent debates over property taxes, some residents have called the Riverwalk an unnecessary expense, but that's a short-sighted vision of the public good that comes from redeveloping a downtown into a vibrant regional hub.

The project will link a series of parks with a 2.5-mile walkway that winds along downtown's river banks, making the city a more appealing place to live, work and do business. It is the ribbon that ties a bow on other downtown projects: a new art museum, a new children's museum, a rebuilt Curtis Hixon Park and a redesigned Ashley Drive.

Should the city buy the Trump site, it could be used as a park or it might lease the land to restaurants or shops that couldn't otherwise afford the location. The point is, the land should be used for ventures that complement the surroundings and are open to the public.

Iorio, of course, should determine if the finances work. But there is little question about what's best for Tampa. And it's not a looming tower on the riverfront.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/jun/11/na-turn-trump-troubles-into-city-triumph/?news-opinion-editorials

Wow, where have I heard that plan before? SSC echo syndrome. Nice!

Actually the more I do think about it, this does make sence.. having the area as a park, along with the riverwalk is just what Tampa needs. Shops and restaurants are great ideas for that location as well..

If you want 600' -700' condo or office towers, you are going to have to go north of Cass St and to the west towards Channelside and Ybor City..

Shout out to Pam on this call.

I love the idea of a park there... especially if they can also buy and tear down the small structure right next to it, connect it to the new park they built not too long ago (MacDill Park I think???), and create a nice big park that spans the whole distance from the Sheraton to the bridge...

If they absolutely have to build a structure on that plot, however, I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of midrise filled with shops and restaurants... sort of a vertical urban minimall, that could be almost the same height as the Wachovia building, perhaps with an atrium in the middle.

Here is my problem with a park... We already have several parks along that stretch of river. There is the one by the Platt Street bridge/convention center, the one inbetween CapTrust and the Sheraton, then the one by the Art museum. How many parks do we need in that area? I'd rather see a skinny point tower or something there. Parks are over rated.

I love the idea of a park there... especially if they can also buy and tear down the small structure right next to it, connect it to the new park they built not too long ago (MacDill Park I think???), and create a nice big park that spans the whole distance from the Sheraton to the bridge...

If they absolutely have to build a structure on that plot, however, I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of midrise filled with shops and restaurants... sort of a vertical urban minimall, that could be almost the same height as the Wachovia building, perhaps with an atrium in the middle.

I could support a park more if they, like you suggest, buy the CapTrust building and turn that area into a park as well. Either that or buy the building, fix it up and use it as a connector to the two parks having a restaurant or shops.

I really don't think that Tampa will ever have canyon like streets. This isn't New York or Chicago. Our tallest towers at this point are only just over 40 stories.

I would like the site to be developed into some sort of public plaza with a new public library on one side and a mixed use structure on the other side. The mixed use building would be a parking garage with retail/restaurant on the ground floor and perhaps the new museum of photography that a group wants to build integrated into it. The facade of the garage levels needs to be very artsy. That way the riverwalk would even more be like a string of pearls with many attractions connected to each other.

It would be difficult for Tampa to ever have a full canyon effect with our small city blocks. It makes the buildings more spread out.

I would be all for a retail strip with river interaction, if it wasn't for the fact that Centro and Channelside aren't doing great. You don't want to over-saturate retail. Maybe a nice, shaded park that goes from Mcdill Park including Captrust to the TTT site would be best.

There was just an article in the SPTimes business section about eh negative business growth in and around downtown... So another shopping/retail spot isn't needed. What is needed are businesses to fill up the available space that's already around downtown. A park remains the best choice (though I said midrise if a building HAS TO go there. I've stated park earlier in the thread)

great a postage size park, awesome idea

The lot isnt big to begin with so there isnt much that could go there and i said a while back it should be a park and i still think thats a good place for one.

How many parks do we need in that area? I'd rather see a skinny point tower or something there. Parks are over rated.
Ever been to Chicago?

I don't think that location is a proper site for it, but Down town is going to need a dog park. we are going to have all these new residents living in condos. There will be a need for an area to let our four legged friends stretch their legs. Some where within the Curtis Hixon park would be the most obvious. It is large enough to have a dog park and still have plenty of area for events.

Parks are good.

Ever been to Chicago?

Yeah, but I still say parks are overrated. I'd rather have one very large park downtown, than 5 small ones.

I agree, one park would work the best. But you have to be able to place it so its convient for all residents for the downtown area, and that might be tricky.

If it weren't for the Crosstown, the center of the small peninsula Tampa sits on might be a nice place for a large park. All of Tampa's density sits around a pretty large barren concrete parking lot as is: the CBD to the west, Channelside to the south and east, and Ybor to the North. If the city could get rid of ConAgra, Tampa could have a pretty nice Central Park like New York...

Ever been to Chicago?

Hell, look at St. Petersburg locally. The parkland along the water is an ASSET for the public, not for private investors.

^Actually, all of those parks in DT St Pete are at least as great an asset for developers as it is for residents.

Well, I was talking alogn the lines of taking away views so only a select few have access... in this case it woudl be access to the River. In St. Pete's case it's access to the bayfront...

SimDag: Trump Tower Tampa is alive

Don't listen to the ongoing media reports that Trump Tower Tampa is dead, said developer Frank Dagostino, because despite having to overcome a few obstacles, the $309 million project is very much alive.

SimDag-RoBEL issued a press release late Tuesday saying that work on the 52-story downtown luxury condominium project is continuing, and that the developer has been in constant contact with its buyers.

"The press is killing us; the market is killing us; those have been our two main issues," Dagostino told the Tampa Bay Business Journal. "But we haven't stopped. We can't stop."

SimDag has a term sheet with an unidentified hedge fund in New York to finance the project, and the fund is now going through the due diligence period, Dagostino said. An announcement on financing could be made as early mid-July, but most likely by the end of the summer, he said.

The project cannot move forward, however, unless New York real estate mogul Donald Trump is on board to provide his name. Trump filed a lawsuit last month claiming he had not been paid licensing fees for the use of his name since last October.

Despite the lawsuit, however, Dagostino said he was confident that Trump would be on board in the end.

"We're working those details out," he said. "It's still a Trump building."

For one of the project's biggest spenders, Tuesday's comments were cause for some optimism.

"They are Tampa boys," said Alan Bridges, chief executive officer of the warehouse supply super centers Got-Rack.com. Bridges is the buyer of the tower's 8,000-square-foot, $6.15 million penthouse unit and has went public May 31 about his experiences trying to track down a $1.2 million deposit for the ultra-luxury apartment. "They want to stay in this town. [Dagostino's] kids go to school here and he went to USF and he's all about making it right. He has other ventures and other things here to bargain with and wants to make everything whole," Bridges said. Bridges plans to meet the developers again in the near future to continue discussions.

Soil issues at the 111 S. Ashley Drive site have been addressed, and a new foundation has been engineered, Dagostino said. Whether or not SimDag will try to complete the project by itself or involve previously reported companies Mirabilis Ventures out of Orlando or The Related Group from Miami was not clear as Dagostino had no comment on their likely involvement.

The Trump Tower site has been plagued with a number of issues in the past couple of years including a lawsuit from one buyer demanding his deposit back, and a number of construction liens filed against the property.

That, along with Trump's recent lawsuit over licensing his name, had local media declaring the project dead. Dagostino, however, said a lot of confusion started when the company closed its Clearwater office of SimDag Investments, and the fact that listed numbers to reach developers were no longer working.

"I think the press likes to sell papers; they like bad news; and seem to only print everything negative against any type of real estate," Dagostino said. "We're trying to help this area. This building would be an incredible addition to Tampa Bay, and I still believe it's going to be great."

Dagostino could not say how far behind the project is or a potential completion date until financing for the tower is finalized.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/06/11/daily28.html?surround=lfn[/url]

Here's the press release:

June 7, 2007

Dear Trump Tower Tampa Unit Buyer:

In an attempt to dispel the recent press that our project has been receiving, we would like to personally meet with each of our buyers at the Trump Tower Tampa sales office located in the CapTrust building adjacent to the tower site, on the 5th floor. We are in the process of setting up appointments with each unit buyer, and we have already met with several groups. Please call 813-225-2070 to set up an appointment with Eby Paul or you can email him directly at epaul@simdag.com. Both Eby and I will be handling all of these meetings.

Despite published reports to the contrary, our intention has always been to move forward with this project. We had to resubmit new numbers for the financing, due to the unforeseen soil issues, and have been working diligently to secure that financing.

Our goal has and always will be to ensure each of our client's satisfaction, and to that end, we would like to personally discuss with each unit buyer options that are available to you at this point. We realize that several of our buyers will not be able to meet in Tampa, and for those individuals we can set up conference calls. We look forward to meeting all of you in person. If you have any questions please feel free to email me at any time at fdagostino@simdag.com.

Thank you

Sincerely,
Frank Dagostino

I don't know what to say. It's like a soap opera. I bet there are still people who are wanting their money back. This has been going on for a long time!

^Of course there is... At least they resolved the soil issues it seems. That bodes well longterm for something getting built there some day.


SimDag: Trump Tower Tampa is alive
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say no, it isn't alive. SigDag simply can't do anything but say this.

^Of course there is... At least they resolved the soil issues it seems. That bodes well longterm for something getting built there.

Well atleast no one else has to say "WTF is wrong with the soil?"

And it's already approved for 591'.

why would a park be good there??????? the lot is too small. Tampa has enough of these "mini parks" what purpose do they serve? no picnic tables, grills, foot ball fields etc etc they are a waste. The area does not have residents so it is pointless to put something there that no one will use. I work downtown and I have no desire to sit along the smelly ass river looking at the cross town expressway to have lunch, that is not a park. Trump tower sucks shitty design and does not really fit in well with downtown but that should not be a reason to buy the property and turn it into a park.

Its not over until the fat lady sings... OR they give all that money back

this lot combined with the captrust building and the park already existing to the north, would make for a pretty sizable park actually... It would be several hundred feet long, and with there, I think it would be pretty nice...

^I'm going to go out on a limb here and say no, it isn't alive. SigDag simply can't do anything but say this.

Agreed, SimDag can say all they want, but I believe the project has no hope left of moving forward. Especially with Trump pulling his name out of the project.

^^ (to both the last replies) Hillsborough River Tower anyone? Another exmaple of a dead-man-walking project.

^Right... People have to understand the context... These projects are still alive, but only because global warming has yet to submerge the land. ;)

Totally different situations. The developers of HRT only said they would break ground when they had a certain percentage of space leased. HRT was always just a pipe dream. There is no activity surrounding this project at all. HRT project is either dead or in a deep coma.

TTT did in fact sell enough units and actually broke ground. There is nothing static about it. SimDag has brought in 2 new partners, is facing 3 different law suits, still has everyone's money and are still claiming that it will get built. TTT might be dying a very dramatic death in front of the public, but it is not dead yet...

Stick to the topic people...

^Right... People have to understand the context... These projects are still alive, but only because global warming has yet to submerge the land. ;)

Wouldn't it be if global warming did play out that DT Tampa would be underwater? (hehe)

But really, I think Trump Tower is DEAD. I don't care who says what. Unless I see a buidling go up...then I'm sticking with my view.

I know from insiders it is on indefinitely hold for now....

It would make a great place for a taco stand...

I know from insiders it is on indefinitely hold for now....

It would make a great place for a taco stand...

...Or maybe an ice cream shop (hehe)

both of you are wrong a hot dog stand would kill it!! :lol:

How about a Starbucks...no wait. There's too many Starbucks places already...

Or, we could stay on topic please.

I created an entire forum for the silly stuff. Let's post in it.

Or, we could stay on topic please.

I created an entire forum for the silly stuff. Let's post in it.

right...sorry.



I still stick to my words...the Trump Tower is dead...

Source: http://www.trumptowertampa.com/home.html

Dated: August 24, 2007

Dear Trump Tower Tampa Unit Buyer:

Both Eby Paul and I have now met with nearly every unit buyer at Trump Tower Tampa. We are nearing the end of our lender’s due diligence period, and we are awaiting a commitment letter any day now. Should we be denied financing, our efforts will immediately shift towards returning buyer deposits. We apologize for the delays, and we do appreciate your patience with this project. If you have any further questions, please email me at fdagostino@simdag.com or you can reach Eby at epaul@simdag.com.

Thank you

Sincerely,
Frank Dagostino

This is incredible! I want an answer as to what is going to be built there. *screams for office with park*!!!!!

^^
Agreed.

An office with a park? Have you seen the size of the site? With no building at all it would still be a small park. The best we could hope for is a tower with the riverwalk section nicely done.

Source: http://www.trumptowertampa.com/home.html

Dated: August 24, 2007

Dear Trump Tower Tampa Unit Buyer:

Both Eby Paul and I have now met with nearly every unit buyer at Trump Tower Tampa. We are nearing the end of our lender’s due diligence period, and we are awaiting a commitment letter any day now. Should we be denied financing, our efforts will immediately shift towards returning buyer deposits. We apologize for the delays, and we do appreciate your patience with this project. If you have any further questions, please email me at fdagostino@simdag.com or you can reach Eby at epaul@simdag.com.

Thank you

Sincerely,
Frank Dagostino
A developer's friendly way of saying, we didn't get the financing, so expect a check in the mail soon for your deposit.

also known as "covering my ass because I said 'non-refundable deposit' way back when"

That project is a crippled mess...:lol:
I hope something reasonable is done with the site.

How many caissons did they end up sinking before they stopped?

O, you've asked in the past and I don't think any of us know for sure. I can remember you saying that may make the site more valuable for development.

I really don't think many though that's debatable. But after the sea-wall was replaced, I don't think there was much money to drive many into the ground. That's just speculation on my part.

Open question for all -- is the site accessible for a pedestrian? And O -- would it be possible for a pedestrian to physically see/count the number of cassions driven? I highly doubt a single cap was poured over them....

But again, from idle speculation and assumption, I think the most valuable work that's been done to the property was replacing the sea-wall. There may be more work in the ground but not as much as we think.

Yea, definitely not many. There is about 6' of grass on the site now so it would be hard to tell. This Google Maps shot (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=27.944081,-82.458323&spn=0.001467,0.001687&t=k&z=19&om=1) was from late last year, Skypoint was still U/C. It shows sea wall work but not much else.

Oops, sorry I tend to have a one track mind at times.

I'm not sure that one would be able to see much indication that any caissons have been poured. I imagine that at some point the site guy either spread fill around the lot to bring everything back up to grade or some natural force of nature covered holes with natural erosion.

Your right though, one would be very happy to acquire a plot of land that has a nice and tight sea wall. The underground locates have all been rounded up as well as all of the as-builts for the surrounding properties, thats a plus. As far as site access is concerned, the owner of the property is still required to carry a policy on the land which would deny any public access.

This is a very nice parcel of land, I wouldn't expect it to be on the market for too long.

Don't apologize O. My memory is good with these threads and that's the only reason I remembered you mentioned you'd be up for acquiring it.

Thanks for the insight about what one could expect at the site... I haven't been near the location since February 2005 and everything was fenced off and blocked. I do think there were caission pours, with the majority of them (and again -- not many if any) closest to the office building north of the site. Assumption on my part.

Going back in this thread, it's been stated by Jasonhouse (and seemingly argued for and against by myself - but I'm for it) that the property would be best as parkland. If any building goes in there, I'd prefer a lowrise/midrise simply because I think the Amsouth building is the signature building of downtown. You really have to trump (no pun intended) the architecture there if you were going with a skyscraper of similar or greater height. TTT never came close in it's modern/concrete/stucco design. Simply tall infill doesn't do it for the site or downtown.

I'd prefer a park, but you're point holds up that with any caissions poured that the property is primed a bit for development. Though one has to wonder if anomolies in the ground really are a detraction on site development. That (and lack of extra financing to deal with cost over-runs) was the supposed hold up until the real estate market started crashing down.

T-day for Trump Tower Tampa
T is for either "tower" or "turkey" as developer will hear whether financing will propel project forward or he'll be out $20M
Tampa Bay Business Journal - August 31, 2007by Michael HinmanStaff Writer

http://cll.bizjournals.com/story_image/95699-400-0.jpg?rev=2
Kathleen Cabble
SimDag sold its interest in the CapTrust office building, but Trump Tower’s sales center remains there.

TAMPA -- Friday's the day. A phone call from New York will reveal whether Trump Tower Tampa finally rises, or falls into history.

Many of the original players -- including Donald Trump, technically -- are gone. Lawsuits have piled up on developer SimDag's doorstep along with construction liens and plenty of negative press.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/09/03/story1.html

I wonder if by "move forward" they mean actually begin construction, or countinue to survive by dragging on legally? :dunno: We'll see....

My prediction is that this project will go down the drain...either way. :lol:

Whatever happened to all of Trump's bluster that he'd get this built even if he had to pay for it out of his own pocket ?

Appearently, he is broke too.

Whatever happened to all of Trump's bluster that he'd get this built even if he had to pay for it out of his own pocket ?

Lost in his comb over. :P and with how many other projects he has right now under construction, this building should be moot to him. It's nothing design wise or even location wise.

Trump Tower Money Deadline Passes
By SHANNON BEHNKEN, The Tampa Tribune

Published: September 1, 2007

TAMPA - In a sign that the fate of Trump Tower Tampa is in even more jeopardy, the developer trying to build the stalled project says it will return money to condominium buyers if financing isn't obtained.

'Should we be denied financing, our efforts will immediately shift towards returning buyer deposits,' Frank Dagostino, CEO of Tampa-based SimDag LLC wrote in a statement posted on the project's Web site.

Buyer George Galiouridis, who has a contract to purchase a three-bedroom unit in the tower, said the developer sent e-mail to buyers recently informing them that a final decision about financing would be made Friday.

However, by the end of the business day, Galiouridis said no announcements had been made about the downtown, riverfront condo, and no one with SimDag had returned his e-mail.

'It's very frustrating,' Galiouridis said. 'One week we're told it looks good, the next we're told it doesn't.'

When reached by telephone, Dagostino said he could neither confirm nor deny Friday's deadline and refused to answer questions.

Debbie Moreya of Atlantic American Capital said her company had worked to arrange a financing deal with a New York hedge fund, but that deal fell through months ago. Dagostino, she said, decided to try to come up with financing on his own.

'I haven't spoken to Dagostino in months,' she said.

The $300 million, 52-story Trump Tower Tampa was announced with much fanfare in early 2005 but has struggled to obtain financing. It also ran into trouble with unstable soil beneath the site and with rising construction costs. Buyers have been dropping out of the project.

to place the name of celebrity real estate magnate Donald Trump on the tower, SimDag agreed to pay $2.8 million to Trump and turn over 50 percent of the profit.

The 190 condos originally sold for $700,000 to more than $6 million each.

The contract with Trump required SimDag start building by April 27, 2006, and to have sold at least 70 percent of the units by April of this year.

Trump filed a lawsuit May 30 in U.S. District Court, alleging SimDag breached its contract and is in default on its monthly payments of $129,091.

In a May letter to SimDag, Trump sought to terminate the licensing agreement and told the developer to stop using the Trump name.

Several buyers and contractors also have filed suit, either seeking to get out of contracts or claiming they have not been paid for services.

SimDag posted a note to buyers on its Web site this summer informing them the company still planned to build the tower, but that memo has been replaced by the new note.

Reporter Shannon Behnken can be reached at (813) 259-7804 or sbehnken@tampatrib.com.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/01/bz-trump-tower-money-deadline-passes1/

What a shame, but hopefully we can get something on the lot then a bunch of dirt and working tools.

Anyone know if this could affect the RiverWalk Project?

What poor form to lead people on for so long, finally give a firm date and then not call. These guys seem like complete amateurs.

What a shame, but hopefully we can get something on the lot then a bunch of dirt and working tools.

Anyone know if this could affect the RiverWalk Project?

That specific segment of the RW probably won't get built for a long....while. I suspect Iorio will almost be out of office before anything is done with it.

What poor form to lead people on for so long, finally give a firm date and then not call. These guys seem like complete amateurs.

A lot of groups who had plans for projects during the boom-time downtown (2004-06) and never broke ground were a bunch of shitless dreamers. Yeah, that's a little harsh, but SimDag was behind the condo project that was supposed to replace Newks. Amon Investment's Tampa Tower(s) is another example -- nice plan, no development history. It's just throwing things at the wall until something sticks (the plan) and then wishinghopingpraying that they can pull it off.

There are other projects and I can't say if the developers were serious or not or experienced or not... But I think Tampa (regardless of what happened with the market) was full of shitless dreaming where developers wanted to make a start... And the ones who came out ahead were the ones who already had notches on their belt from elsewhere.

Trump Tower Still Looking For Financing, Buyer Is Told
Tribune file photo

http://media.tbo.com/photos/trib/2007/sep/0904trump2.jpg
By Shannon Behnken of The Tampa Tribune

Published: September 4, 2007

A Trump Tower Tampa buyer says he received a new e-mail in which the project's developer says it has extended this past Friday's deadline to decide whether or not to build the luxury condominiums. The new deadline is Wednesday.

The developer, Tampa-based SimDag LLC, previously told buyers it would find out Friday whether it was going to get approved for financing for the $300 million tower. If the answer was no, the developer would return buyers' deposits, SimDag's CEO Frank Dagostino said in a statement on a Web site for the tower.

The new e-mail, sent to buyer George Galiouridis, says the developer is getting close to signing an agreement with a lender and still hopes to build the tower.


http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/04/trump-tower-still-looking-financing-buyer-told/?news-breaking

I suppsoe as long as they're "getting close" to financing they'll countinue extending the deadline. It'd be better if they made no promises at all, becasue I'm sure they are just pissing buyers off when they extend that deadline.

Financing Deal Near For Trump Tower
By SHANNON BEHNKEN, The Tampa Tribune

Published: September 5, 2007

TAMPA -

A New York hedge fund is now poised to provide financing for the 52-story Trump Tower Tampa if Donald Trump drops his lawsuit against local developer SimDag LLC, a consultant working on the deal said.

'It looks good,' said Tim Diego, president of St. Petersburg-based South Gate Holding, the firm putting the deal together. 'I'm getting the indication this will work.'

SimDag planned to have a conference call with the hedge fund manager and the Trump Organization on Tuesday, Diego said.

At the end of the business day, however, Rhona Graff, Trump's assistant, said nothing had been finalized.

'SimDag has not reached an agreement with Mr. Trump,' Graff said. 'But they are trying to.'

SimDag CEO Frank Dagostino did not return calls for comment, but posted a recent announcement on the project's Web site that if it does not get financing soon for the $300 million tower, it will start refunding buyers' deposits.

One buyer waiting on the news, George Galiouridis, said he was told in an e-mail from SimDag that he will find out today whether the condo will be built. SimDag has postponed deadline after deadline for more than a month, Galiouridis said. The developer had said last Friday was the final deadline to obtain financing. But over the weekend, Galiouridis said he received an e-mail that the deadline was extended to today.

Trump Tower was announced in early 2005 as an exclusive condominium high-rise on the Hillsborough River in downtown Tampa. The project has struggled to obtain financing, and ran into trouble with unstable soil beneath the site and with rising construction costs.

SimDag agreed to pay $2.8 million to Trump and turn over 50 percent of the profit to him in exchange for the rights to use his name of the building. The 190 condos originally sold for $700,000 to more than $6 million each.

The contract with Trump required SimDag to start building by April 27, 2006, and to have sold at least 70 percent of the units by April of this year.

Trump filed a lawsuit May 30 in U.S. District Court, alleging SimDag breached its contract and is in default on its monthly payments of $129,091.

Trump also has sought to terminate the licensing agreement and told the developer in May to stop using the Trump name.

Kathy Rentas of the law firm Becker & Poliakoff, which is representing SimDag in the suit, said she expects to file a legal response to the lawsuit by Sept. 12.

Some buyers have sued, too.

Thomas Long of the Tampa law firm Barnett, Bolt, Kirkwood, Long & McBride is representing several buyers, including two who have sued seeking their deposits back. He said his clients have been hearing about hedge funds for two years and are not holding out hope that the latest one will decide to back the deal.

'A bunch of lenders have said no, and those lenders charge normal interest rates,' Long said. 'A hedge fund will want part of the deal and they charge a large interest rate. I would think there won't be much profit left.'

Some buyers, Long said, have agreed to get half their money back, but the clients who have sued declined the deal because that would mean forfeiting rights to get back their full deposit.

Buyers put down 20 percent deposits. Half the money went to escrow, Long said, and the other half was available for the developer to use on construction costs.

'I don't know how much money is left,' Long said.

String us along, you're the developer...
String us along, all right
Well we're all in the mood for a fallancy
And you've got us dreaming tonight

Sorry, that's Mr. Cynical showing up on all of this. Just had to get it out. Sorry

And once again...the drama is being dragged on longer... :ohno:

sounds like a bunch of crap to me as well but if it goes, great

I'm not going to hold my breath on this one...

^My thought exactly.

Perhaps, we will all be shocked and amazed, though I think we will have light rail before Trump Tower ever materializes.

Perhaps, we will all be shocked and amazed, though I think we will have light rail before Trump Tower ever materializes.

:lol: Nice.

funny

Probably the TIA Interchanges revamp will be done before the tower goes up also.

I think cars will fly before this thing even breaks ground.

^^
:lol:

Cars will fly out of our asses before the first closing at TTT.

^ That has already happened to someone. Have you seen Jackass the movie #1?

Not to be mean or anything, but the thread is starting to get off topic again and I'd rather not have Jason yell at all of us cause of it.

^haha.... Was coming to do exactly that.

Anyways, I don't understand why SimDag has to pull this drama along any further. All they're doing is ing off the buyers even more. In my opinion, the entire project is a walking mummy that is ready to be killed off. At this point, Id rather see something else be built on that land rather than this piece of crap tower.

^^ I made an appropriate analogy pages ago that pissed you off, I believe... and yet you've virtually invoked it here.

Not trying to stir the pot, no trying to rile things up... The point is TTT should be considered dead and every day they draw this out they sully their own reputation along with the city they are supposed to build in.

Do they want a hot condo market to build a tower in? Go to Calgary, Alberta where they have an ultra-low free-unit rate for residences. Build it there and lets just close this ill-allowed chapter in Tampa development history. I had more confidence Pinnacle Tower would have gotten built than this thing. I had more confidence O2 and Downtown Channelside were going through.

The only project I've had less confidence in is the Hillsborough River Tower. You don't need to make additional jokes about that project to maintain the relevant absurdity of TTT. They will be looking for financing the next decade with plans to build once that's handled... Well, until property tax rates for that downtown parcel finally force them to sell it off and leave behind their legacy of ineptitude.

^^
I agree, that project should be killed off. But If those hoolagans want to put forth every last resource they've got to try to salvage the project, then so be it. SimDag should continue to expect the lawsuits to fly around though if they want to push on with the financing crap.

The only reason I still continue to make posts in this thread is because of the absurity of the lastes move by SimDag to drag on this "walking mummy". It infuriates me when some of these developers think up big dreams, not seeing the reality of the real estate market. I know no one has a crystal ball to look into the future, but I sometimes think some of these developers should have seen the realization that the condo boom was going to die out.

Trump condos still up in air

A broken promise of an answer keeps project in limbo.

By JAMES THORNER, Times Staff Writer
Published September 8, 2007

This week was supposed to climax Trump Tower Tampa's two-year pursuit of financing.

Area developer SimDag LLC promised either to seal a deal to build the $300-million luxury high-rise or concede defeat and refund buyers' deposits on iniums costing up to $6-million.

But as the work week drew to a close Friday, the project found itself in familiar territory: limbo.

SimDag announced on its Web site in late August that it was nearing the point when its proposed lender, a New York hedge fund, would decide whether to commit to the project.

One condition of the deal was whether Donald Trump, the New York tycoon and lifestyle icon who would license his brand name to the project, drops a lawsuit against SimDag. Trump's suit was filed in May and demanded $1.03-million in fees owed by SimDag.

Negotiations among the three parties continued for much of this week. But as of Friday, SimDag would neither claim victory nor admit defeat.

"As soon as we hear we'll let you know," SimDag executive Eby Paul told the St. Petersburg Times in an e-mail Friday.

Buyers, who placed deposits of 20 percent on units costing from $700,000 to $6-million, had been told to expect a decisive turn of events by Wednesday. By Friday, it appeared they had been left hanging.

"They've e-mailed us nothing new," George Galiourides, one of the condo buyers, said Friday.

After a grand introductory gala in February 2005, the proposed 52-story tower at 111 S. Ashley Drive has struggled to find its footing.

Banks have steered clear of financing the project in the slumping housing market. And last year developers learned that underground instability on the 1.5-acre riverfront site would require expensive new pilings.

According to Trump's lawsuit in May, fewer than 70 percent of the 190 units had "bona-fide purchase contracts." Several buyers have sued to get their money back.

James Thorner can be reached at thorner@sptimes.com or (813) 226-3313. Read and comment on his housing blog, (Un)Real Estate, at blogs.tampabay.com/realestate/

[Last modified September 7, 2007, 23:23:57]

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/09/08/Business/_Trump_condos_still_u.shtml

Wslupecki:) , my Tampa friend,

wow, this is getting more intensive all the time,
I got this feeling, This Trump Tower plans will be bought by another office tower developer, Redesigned it and built it taller, get approval from the City of Tampa and changed into a huge Office tower in the next 5 years .:cheers:

^^
That may happen...

I actually gave that possibility some thought, but not a lot. I just don't like how SimDag is screwing everyone over, the buyers, the city, Trump, etc.

One could only hope so we can be done with this crap!

Well Wslupecki, we all knew this would happen. It was a matter of time. You can't just come to the table as a firm that has not built any significant projects and then suggest that you are going to build the tallest residential project on the Gulf Coast. Then string along a MULTI-Billionaire for a two-year rollercoaster ride. Was not going to happen, and still is not going to happen.

Well, I'm not a real estate expert or anything like that. I will say that off the bat. I only comment on these things to put in my opinion. I do know several people who are realtors however, and I get some of what I know from them. I also of course, put up news articles when neccessary. I say all this just so no one takes my comments too seriously.

Trump Tower builders: 'significant hurdle' cleared
Tampa Bay Business Journal - 6:51 PM EDT Wednesday, September 12, 2007by Michael Hinman

On the surface, it might appear as a delay, but in reality it's significant movement in the effort to build Trump Tower Tampa.

Allen Levine and Kathy Rentas, attorneys with Fort Lauderdale-based Becker & Poliakoff who are representing Trump Tower developer SimDag LLC, have jointly filed a motion with attorneys representing New York real estate mogul Donald Trump in U.S. District Court's Middle District of Florida requesting Trump's case against SimDag be delayed 45 days to allow both sides to find a potential solution.


"We're working something out with the Trump Organization," Levine said. "This motion was what both sides agreed to do."

SimDag chief executive Frank Dagostino said the delay clears a "significant hurdle" in the company's attempt to build the 52-story luxury condominium tower on Ashley Drive in downtown Tampa.

The time, according to the motion filed Wednesday evening in federal court, will allow Trump, Dagostino and SimDag to continue pushing for a resolution.

Dagostino told the Tampa Bay Business Journal last month that SimDag was working with an unidentified hedge fund in New York to finance the $200 million project. Funding would then pay a number of SimDag's current debts in the tower, including the more than $1 million Trump claims he's still owed for licensing his name to the project.

A final decision on financing has yet to be reached for the building, but settling the lawsuit by Trump and keeping his name on the project could go a long way to making it a reality, SimDag officials said.

Christopher Griffin, an attorney with the Tampa firm Foley & Lardner who is representing Trump in the lawsuit, could not be reached for comment after business hours Wednesday.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/09/10/daily39.html?jst=b_ln_hl

I still am hesitant about saying cool this is going to be built.

I still am hesitant about saying cool this is going to be built.

Im still not expecting anything good to come out of this either.

I still catch a strong whiff of BS every time I enter this thread.

The only people making any money on this project are the lawyers.

And the media. (judging by this thread, I think we're included!) lol

I still catch a strong whiff of BS every time I enter this thread.

Gotta pull boots up pretty high...With the new litigation, you know the BS is getting thick.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/design/size/spruce-goose.jpg

Who knows...stranger things have gotten off the ground. ^^

:lol:

Sometimes the negativity on this site is a real turn off. These novice developers are clawing for life to try to build what will be a new tallest skyscraper in downtown Tampa. You think that there would be at least a few people routing for them to succeed instead of prognosticating for the 1000th time that the project is dead.

^ I couldn't agree more. I work for a construction entity and a "can do" attitude is a must to get projects, especially of this size, built. I wouldn't hire any of the posters on this site who have such a "can't do" attitude!

I DO want the project to succeed. But at the same time there are improvements that I would really like to make to the project's design, and maybe location. :b

Sometimes the negativity on this site is a real turn off.
Considering the pallid historical 'success rate' of such projects ever coming to fruition in Tampa, it seems to me that it's the cynics who are making commentary founded in logic and reason, while the boosters are turning a blind eye the reality of the situation.



^ I couldn't agree more. I work for a construction entity and a "can do" attitude is a must to get projects, especially of this size, built. I wouldn't hire any of the posters on this site who have such a "can't do" attitude!
I don't know what kind of company you work for, but I would never work for a company routinely backing longshots... Risk is fun, until you lose.

I would consider myself in the booster camp Jason - But that doesn't mean that I am turning a blind eye.

It is clear that the developers are fighting an uphill battle and the project is a long shot. However, that doesn't mean that I don't want them to succeed.

It seems to me that there are posters on here that relish the troubles that this project is having. I am simply on record saying that the project may be dying, but it is not dead yet. SimDag is still trying to get this done.


TTT did in fact sell enough units and actually broke ground. There is nothing static about it. SimDag has brought in 2 new partners, is facing 3 different law suits, still has everyone's money and are still claiming that it will get built. TTT might be dying a very dramatic death in front of the public, but it is not dead yet...

Tell you what - let's play a game -"Which project has a better chance of being built?"

Contestant 1: Venu
No site prep work
Just started sales
No Financing

Contestant 2: Trump Tower Tampa
Some site work and foundation work complete
Deposits on 70% of Units. (Originally reported 100% sales, and then 90% sales. According to Donald Trump's lawsuit this figure is 70%)
Has Pending Lawsuits from 2 buyers, a construction firm and Trump. (Although Trump appears to be in negotiations to possibly drop his lawsuit)
Negotiating Terms of Financing and with Trump to drop the suit.
Running years behind schedule

Contestant 3: Tampa Tower
Clear Lot
Has not begun in sales with no immediate plans to
FAA has not approved height?



Now I admit freely that it is a long shot that any of these will be built. But why the CERTAINTY that Trump is dead?

Considering the pallid historical 'success rate' of such projects ever coming to fruition in Tampa, it seems to me that it's the cynics who are making commentary founded in logic and reason, while the boosters are turning a blind eye the reality of the situation.

Now - if you play that game ^^ and answer honestly - I suspect most of you will say Trump has a better chance of being built than Venu.

Consider this: Just perhaps, it is the cynicism created by the poor success rate of projects in Tampa that is leading the critics to IGNORE logic and reason. At least the logic and reason that this project may possibly get built. At least let us agree that Trump has a better chance than Venu.
And in that admission - that Trump at least has a chance and is not dead.

Tell you what - let's play a game -"Which project has a better chance of being built?"

Contestant 1: Venu
No site prep work
Just started sales
No Financing

Contestant 2: Trump Tower Tampa
Some site work complete
Deposits on 70% of Units.
Negotiating Terms of Financing
Running years behind schedule

Now I admit freely that it is a long shot that either one of these will be built. But why the CERTAINTY that Trump is dead?

How much legal wrangling is going on with the TTT project there, Multi? Conveniently left out for the sake of discussion. You also neglect to mention "Trump boasted huge sales numbers and those seem to have been bullshit, here are the new sales numbers..."

While we are at it, why not throw in Tampa Tower as a project?!?! Huge company behind it! Ambitious project! Open land! It's got more of a shot than Venu for sure!!!

...

Sometimes, this forum is too blindly supportive of projects. Bad projects, good projects... "If it's filler, it's good" does not apply in general city design nor competant city planning. The blind support at times of TTT (oh, and the general comparison of Tampa to Chicago or New York in it's defense of it's horrid design and clash against the skyline) just makes one wonder why the hell just "Building" is supported compared to building what makes sense?

^^ Sure - I will be happy to edit my "let's play a game" post and do all your sugestions and I think I will still make my point.

Also - I am not here to debate your dislike of the building. I am just making the point that it isn't dead. That there is a chance - albeit small that this project will get built.

Now - if you play that game ^^ and answer honestly - I suspect most of you will say Trump has a better chance of being built than Venu.

Boy, that's selective interpretation on your part.

Considering the pallid historical 'success rate' of such projects ever coming to fruition in Tampa, it seems to me that it's the cynics who are making commentary founded in logic and reason, while the boosters are turning a blind eye the reality of the situation.

if anything, Jasonhouse clearly showed why people have a right to be skeptical... Logic -- there's that word you used again -- you've dismissed in the project endorsement.

Hey, wasn't Mirabalis supposed to be gung-ho about getting into the project? Didn't you make a case against me on the forum because I was being negative about the project and about Mirabalis? Where are they again right now?

You've got three companies that have been tied to the project and it's seldom not clear who's in charge any more, you've got a project still using the Trump name after Trump got out -- and now the powers that be are litigating against Trump for this... And yet things are likely to happen even though the project has stopped dead and can't seem to get stabilized?

There's more of a chance OrlandoNative gets his hands on the property and builds a project there -- something completely different (and I'm not trying to attack on this, O, or come off cynical or skeptical when you've expressed interest in the past) than seeing the SimDag/Mirabalis/Whatever condo project go up at this location. And if we're going to compare with venu, then lets be frank -- Venu is in as much trouble as this condo project with thanks to the market they've entered in. You see no one has posted anything in the Venu thread? Go ahead and crow about that. You can also realize we have every fucking right in the world to be skeptical about the Sim/Whatever Condo project right now with thanks to legal snafus, lack of financing, buyer back outs and the like. The project remains on life support. Connect the dots.

If it gets built, yay you and put on Journey's "Keep on Believin' ". If it doesn't, then it doesn't. That's real estate for you.

I have nothing against the Skepticism. I keep repeating that it is unlikely that this project will be built. I am just admitting that it has a chance - albeit slim - which you don't want to admit.

I think Venu has a better chance than Tampa Tower to get built. Trump Tower is kind in the middle, closer to Venu.

I would love to not be skeptical or cynical or the TTT project, however after several years of derailment and disorganization my empathy and support have run dry. The structure was never the most inspiring in terms of design but I was supportive in that it brought a certain level of ascribed value to the CBD in name and function. That purpose has now been exhausted and with it my support or optimism.

It is a tragic fall, but a fall none the less, clearly exposed by the flaws in the process and handling of the project. Ultimately, after all it is by these flaws that we are all judging both developer and backer alike.

Is it financial problems that TTT is facing? If so, why can't they raise the price of the units so they can make extra money and pay back what they owe from construction? I really liek to see these project rise pretty soon. Many may say that the design is awful, but to me, the project looks great. I still have a gleamer of hope for this project.

Now on Tampa Tower and Venu. Venu has the best chance of rising. They came to Tampa with an great proposal and City Council saw what an project could do for DT and gave it the go aheads. I believe they are in the final stage before construction and right now are deciding the best way to get rid of the building on the lot. The building should be gone by December and after clearing the lot, construnction on Venu should began Late January or Early February.

Tampa Tower basically was just a vision. A local resident accidentially found the idea and told medias who broadcasted it in newspapers and on the news. The developer was uncertain if a project could ever happen in Tampa and gave it a shot. After months of height restrictions with the FAA, Tampa Towers was known as Tampa Tower and was brought down in height. Since then, no new information. I could try to firgure out what is going on, but it'll probably take a week or so.

What about Novarre? Does that even have a chance of rising? Or is it already being built?

This thread's topic is Trump Tower. There are threads for those other projects.

This thread's topic is Trump Tower. There are threads for those other projects.

My exact question is, does Noverre have better chances of being completed than TTT. I should have been more specific.

^Novare is not a project its a developer with 4-5 porjects in downtown and Channelside.

Take a look at JohnF's explanation in the TWELVE thread.

Oh, I see. I thought all this time that it was another tower. Thanks for the clarification. And sorry for any junk I may have cause just now Jase.

Source: http://www.trumptowertampa.com/home.html

September 14, 2007

Dear Trump Tower Tampa Unit Buyer:

We would like to apologize to all our buyers for the delays in our efforts to secure financing for Trump Tower Tampa. There are several dynamics involved with this deal that have delayed our commitment letter. One of these issues was our lawsuit with the Trump Organization. Just this week, we were granted a forty-five day extension by the Trump Organization in an effort to complete this deal. The potential lenders for this project have been in constant communication with Donald Trump’s legal counsel, and we are expecting a commitment letter shortly.

We do realize that we have gone beyond the expected due diligence period, but there is simply too much at stake for everyone involved with this project, and the city of Tampa as a whole, to terminate this project prematurely. We will do our best to keep all of our buyers informed. As soon as the fund makes their final decision, we will be calling all buyers and sending out letters to set up the second phase of meetings. If you have any further questions, please email me at fdagostino1@gmail.com or you can reach Eby Paul at ebyjpaul@gmail.com

Thank you for your patience.

Sincerely,
Frank Dagostino

^^
The letters keep rolling in and they buyers keep getting more furious w/SimDag. :ohno:

NPR - they already increased prices once. This building was reported to be up to 80% sold out.....NO person believes this will be built now. The buyers want their money back. The deadline has passed. Any % back will be better than nothing.

Simdag is trying to hold onto the money. Any reason why they don't wan't to return escrow...? Is it still there?

Simdag is trying to hold onto the money. Any reason why they don't wan't to return escrow...? Is it still there?


My guess is they that they have small fortunes invested in this project - and that if they let it fail (return the money) they will lose everything. The hedge fund that they are trying to negotiate with is high interest - which is why they might get the money. I am guessing its all or nothing for SimDag. The sad part is that even if they get the money and pull off building this somehow - they are likely to lose their shirts in my opinion.

But - if they are facing financial ruin because of this debacle - they might prefer to take a chance and borrow crazy money and build in hopes that the real estate market could turn around and they can somehow pull off a profit on this building.

Don't forget - they have reportedly sold off other assets to make this work.

Here we go.....


Trump Tower condo buyer wins suit

Tampa Bay Business Journal
by Michael Hinman





Adaja Properties LLC has won its lawsuit against the developers behind Trump Tower Tampa in what appears to be the first judgment handed down in several condominium buyers' disputes related to the stalled luxury project.

Hillsborough County Circuit Court Judge Frank Gomez ordered SimDag/RoBEL LLC to pay Adaja Properties $587,916 after the developers failed to respond to Adaja's suit, which was originally filed last April.

The judgment comes two years after Adaja purchased two condominium units at Trump Tower Tampa. One was located on the 23rd floor and was listed or $1.03 million, while a second was located on the 40th floor, listed at $1.8 million. Like many of the other buyers, Adaja was asked to make a deposit on the two units, which totaled a little more than $500,000 with a completion date set for Dec. 31, 2008.

"After entering the agreements, it has become clear that the construction of Trump Tower Tampa is significantly delayed, if not altogether abandoned," court records said.

Adaja sued for breach of contract as well as violation of the Interstate Land Sales Full Disclosure Act after SimDag failed to refund the deposits when Adaja requested it.

Eby Paul, the project manager for Trump Tower Tampa, said SimDag was looking to have the judgment set aside.

SimDag is in the process of securing financing for the 52-story, $220 million tower that has been plagued with construction delays and finance issues since it was first announced in January 2005.

New York real estate mogul Donald Trump has also sued SimDag, demanding payment of more than $1 million in licensing fees, and for the removal of his name from the project. Last month, however, both sides agreed to a 45-day delay as SimDag works to get funding for the tower.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/09/24/daily37.html?jst=b_ln_hl

Newsflash to SimDag: You aren't getting financed.

:lol:

Can we get on with the funeral already? This project has been dead and rotting for 2 years.

Can we get on with the funeral already? This project has been dead and rotting for 2 years.

Unfortinatly, this is the case of Dawn of the Dead Trump Project.
You gotta wait through this horribly long boring movie. :lol:

Oh lord, that does remind me of that movie. Actually, it wasn't that scary. But the TTT drama, just keeps getting worse. I agree with randommichael, lets just get the funeral done already. The project is . :lol:

Come on guys, don't give up now. The project still has a chance. One more try, that all it needs!

/sarcasm :lol:

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/10/01/daily33.html?jst=b_ln_hl

Wednesday, October 3, 2007 - 11:07 AM EDT

Trump Tower Tampa secures financing
Tampa Bay Business Journal - by Michael Hinman

It may rise after all.

Left for dead by many in the real estate community months ago, it looks like construction will once again begin on Trump Tower Tampa now that SimDag LLC has received a commitment letter from a yet-to-be-identified New York hedge fund.

Trump Tower project manager Eby Paul has sent an e-mail to buyers saying that the developer has secured $200 million in financing for the 52-story downtown Tampa residential tower. The fund, according to Paul's e-mail, also has met with The Trump Organization, indicating that Donald Trump's name will continue to be a part of the project.

Paul told the Tampa Bay Business Journal that SimDag is working up a full announcement with further details. In the meantime, Paul and SimDag chief executive Frank Dagostino will meet with buyers to develop an incentive plan designed to "make up for our delays due to soil conditions."

The incentive, according to Paul's e-mail, is expected to be a fixed rate of return for money the company has held in escrow and will be credited to the purchase price of the unit. SimDag also said it was exploring options for upgrading packages of finished flooring in units as well as a purchase agreement addendum that would prevent SimDag from selling similar units at lower prices.

SimDag announced in June that it was moving forward with trying to make Trump Tower Tampa a reality despite a severely slowed condominium market, and said as late as August that it was close to securing financing.

I'm in shock over this one...I really am.:nuts:


http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/10/01/daily33.html?jst=b_ln_hl

lol... Was just coming to post that...

Now we'll see how many people actually cough up the real money.

I'll still believe it when I see it.

who did SimDag blow to get this done?

I am most amused. . .

lol JohnF, apparently some hedge fund. Seems a bit risky to me, but it might actually make this thing happen.

hedge fund huh...lets see if SimDag is able to get this rolling.

For a site dedicated to Skyscraper "enthusiasts", I thought there would be some sense of excitement considering the current market conditons making it nearly impossible to secure financing on ANY project.
I congratulate Simdag if they do come with an official announcement. They are small fry compared to more well known names and if they pull this off, they will have the last laugh.

^I would be more excited if our new tallest wasn't going to have such a mundane design.

TPAMan -- For a site of Skyscraper enthusiasts, we're not just going to get off every time someone announces they have secured funding for a building that stands over 10 feet tall. Especially not one that is a horrendous design to begin with, in a bad location and that's been riddled with problems and setbacks since the onset.

Not my problem who they blew or otherwise . . . I will be interested to see if they get to work

Exactly Jason, I'd be more excitied if the building weren't ugly.

WOW......still not holding my breath on this but....... good to look at the glass half full...... happy to see they are doing whatever it takes.

I'll congratulate them when they complete the tower. Until then I'll remain skeptical.

happy to see they are doing whatever it takes.
Gotta give them credit there... If the project ultimately happens or not, nobody will be able to say that the SimDag crew didn't give a 200% effort to make it happen.

John, with all due respect, I see people on the site "getting off" over topics that have absolutely nothing to do with development which is why I visit the site.
That said, I am all for the project moving forward in a positive manner versus the lot sitting empty for years to come while they figure out what to do.
If an official announcement is made, the project moves forward and our city's reputation stays intact versus the false perception we are small time and can't seem to make BIG projects work here.
I don't necessarily care for the design but IMHO, it's better than some of the others I've seen and Simdag does in fact, own the site.
The price points are out of my league but if buyers are willing and able to place their money here, so be it (obviously so, if anyone is willing to fund at this point).
My point is, this project moving forward is better news than news of it being "officially" dead. It fills one more vacant lot and an integral piece of the riverwalk versus being the "missing link" for the forseeable future.
I'm all for development in our city center and if this materializes, it will be our NEW Tampa tallest.

Well, this was a surprising thread to login and see updated.... Congratulations to SimDag for putting in the extra effort to try and make something happen, though forgive me if I am anything but a little skeptical until I see some legitimate construction on the site. Now, in thinking about this development, I am actually rather torn.

Does this building positively represent Tampa?
http://www.trumptowertampa.com/images/gallery/model/model_1.jpg

Ultimately, I think both yes and no. Architecturally speaking, its rather blaise and does not fit in with out existing skyline. Not that being different is a bad thing, but its different in a decidedly mediocre way. However, in terms of ascribed value, the sheer fact that they seemingly have kept the Trump name intact on this, makes me think that this building will be good for the city and our downtown's overall image. Package this in, with the Novare triad of projects and some possible new commercial towers and we have an interesting and diverse area developing despite a somewhat lackluster aesthetic with the Trump.

Come on guys, sing with me!

Some will win!
some will lose!
Some were born to sing the blues,
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on.

Don't stop believin
Hold on to the feeling...

This should definitley be a huge morale booster for downtown in general if anything.

Now, just because they have financing now doesn't mean it will get built. They still face lawsuits from buyers who are complaining about the project being late. If the developer would've gotten this money even just 6 months ago they probably could've gotten away with it. Now, that said, this may just mean those buyers will get refunded and SimDag will have to re-sell those units.

Trump Tower Developer Reveals Deal With Hedge Fund
By Shannon Behnken of The Tampa Tribune

Published: October 3, 2007

TAMPA - The stalled Trump Tower Tampa may be one step closer to becoming a reality.

The developer, Tampa-based SimDag LLC, has received a "commitment agreement" from a New York hedge fund that may fund a loan for the tower, according to an e-mail sent to buyers.

The e-mail did not identify the name of the New York hedge fund. SimDag CEO Frank Dagostino would not confirm the commitment agreement.

"We're still trying to work some things out," he said.

SimDag, unable to obtain financing from traditional lenders, has been negotiating with the fund as a last-ditch effort to build the 52-story tower along the Hillsborough River.

Rhona Graff, a spokeswoman for the Trump Organization, said no one with her office had seen such a commitment letter. Although real estate mogul Donald Trump is not a developing partner in the project, he has licensed his name to SimDag for the tower. In May, Trump sued seeking to terminate his licensing agreement.

There has been no construction activity at the site for months. The project signs that hang on a fence around the project are torn and worn, and grass has grown up around the site.

SimDag announced Trump Tower in early 2005 but has struggled to get financing and ran into problems with unstable ground and buyers dropping out. Some have sued, seeking their money back.

Last month, a federal judge in Tampa granted SimDag 45 more days to respond to Trump's lawsuit. That time will expire in mid-November.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/oct/03/trump-tower-developer-reveals-deal-hedge-fund/?news-breaking

Come on guys, sing with me!

Some will win!
some will lose!
Some were born to sing the blues,
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on.

Don't stop believin
Hold on to the feeling...

...I asked for it, and now I've got it. Touché multi. Touché ;)

I am actually stunned! I NEVER would have believed it in a million years!

I'll congratulate them when they complete the tower. Until then I'll remain skeptical.

I'm doing the same...

I'm skeptical too, but would like to see something built and have a name like Trump attached to it. I have a hard time believing buyers have been waiting this long to have this built, putting down their deposit, and not asking for their money back. I can't imagine doing it myself.

Well, this sort of crowd tends to have money regardless of the economy.

Well, this sort of crowd tends to have money regardless of the economy.

Understood, but come on....why buy a place that isn't built yet, and make a deposit of 10% 20% or whatever. It just blows me away. I just don't get why anyone would that. Even in the market 2 yrs ago. Just my 2 cents.

Damn I sure didnt see this one coming, I thought SimDag was dead in the water. All though the market is very weak for condo's and nowhere near where it was 2 years ago, there seems to be a slight up tick in new construction news lately. Maybe we have finally leveled out and in the next year might be on our way back up.

^Well, TTT has already sold around 80% of its units, so the market isn't that bad of a concern. Until some buyers get out (if they do at this point) and the developer has to re-sale those units. See, the buyers are pissed off because this is literally left-overs from the boom 2 years ago that sold but never got built.

Bottom line - this is a good thing for Tampa and for Tampa's downtown if in fact it does get built.

I am not sure they actually have financing rather than preliminary financing - that is, an agreement to get financing if they meet certain condition laid out in the committment letter and which still may not be met. . .time will tell - I personally would rather it be built - why not? It will be a dead lot otherwise - I used to work in the Wachovia building - I know that lot well - it will be dead.

One thing I'm wondering... Can't basically anyone who has money down get out simply by pointing to that lawsuit (and the law cited) as precedent to get out of their contract?

Depends on the Judge. If you get one that says the ruling was more based on the fact that at the time it seemed as if the tower had no hope of getting built then I think you will not get out of your contract, but if youget a judge that sees it differently then you might get "lucky."

"After entering the agreements, it has become clear that the construction of Trump Tower Tampa is significantly delayed, if not altogether abandoned," court records said.

Clearly things have changed some since the ruling. Also, Simdag just never responded to the law suite, so the plantif won more or less by default.

Steve

I am not sure they actually have financing rather than preliminary financing - that is, an agreement to get financing if they meet certain condition laid out in the committment letter and which still may not be met. . .time will tell - I personally would rather it be built - why not? It will be a dead lot otherwise - I used to work in the Wachovia building - I know that lot well - it will be dead.

Right! And it was a little unsettling that the article said that no one in the Trump organization had seen the letter. I find that really hard to believe if they have been in negotiations with Trump for weeks to drop the lawsuit.

This really isn't a MAJOR change from last week in my opinion. SimDag is still actively working on getting financing. This project is NOT dead and does have a chance of rising. BUT they have a long way to go and an uphill battle to pull it off. If they do - these guys will go from goats to heros, we will have a new Tampa's tallest, they will probably lose a lot of money, and the St. Petersburg times will have to eat crow.

But Alas - the project is not dead - which has been my only point the last month or so.

This really isn't a MAJOR change from last week in my opinion. SimDag is still actively working on getting financing. This project is NOT and does have a chance of rising. BUT they have a long way to go and an uphill battle to pull it off. If they do - these guys will go from goats to heros, we will have a new Tampa's tallest, they will probably lose a lot of money, and the St. Petersburg times will have to eat crow.


That is true. SimDag has a long battle to fight if they are to keep going with TTT. Again, I'm not holding my breath on anything that is done from here on out. Unless the tower starts rising, I will remain to my earlier opinions.

SP Times needs to keep its biased mouth shut about TTT. Sorry JAse, I just had to say that.

When I see the first floor go up I will belive the project will go forward. I am pessimistic about this project now. It will be such a great addition to Tampa but I this this is just a front to keep the developers out of hot water for the time being.

^I don't know about ulterior motives... That really wouldn't do anything for anybody, would it? It's actually the longer they drag it out, the more it costs them in legal fees and interest and taxes and so on. If they say they're finishing up getting financing, then I've got to assume they are. I'm sure for a fair number of buyers, it's still exciting news. Especially since Trump is staying on. From most everything I've read, Trump buildings have your typical condo issues that are inevitable basically wherever you live, but are very well maintained and staffed.

Right! And it was a little unsettling that the article said that no one in the Trump organization had seen the letter. I find that really hard to believe if they have been in negotiations with Trump for weeks to drop the lawsuit.

This really isn't a MAJOR change from last week in my opinion. SimDag is still actively working on getting financing. This project is NOT dead and does have a chance of rising. BUT they have a long way to go and an uphill battle to pull it off. If they do - these guys will go from goats to heros, we will have a new Tampa's tallest, they will probably lose a lot of money, and the St. Petersburg times will have to eat crow.

But Alas - the project is not dead - which has been my only point the last month or so.

Well, in the story they obviously got from the business journal, it looks like they called someone real low on the totem pole at Trump Org. They are a large organization, would everyone be aware of things going on, especially since this is one LICENSING deal out of dozens if not hundreds?

The Trump lawyers agreed to a 45-day delay in direct response to the possibility of financing, which means if they get paid, they would be interested in keeping the Trump name attached. Otherwise, they would say screw it.

Well, in the story they obviously got from the business journal, it looks like they called someone real low on the totem pole at Trump Org. They are a large organization, would everyone be aware of things going on, especially since this is one LICENSING deal out of dozens if not hundreds?

The Trump lawyers agreed to a 45-day delay in direct response to the possibility of financing, which means if they get paid, they would be interested in keeping the Trump name attached. Otherwise, they would say screw it.


Right - I am sure the source that the TBBJ used is not in the know. I think the most telling sign of immediate progress will be if there is an announcement that the Trump organization has dropped their lawsuit permanently.

^Bingo.

All Trump cares about is money, so if there is a new deal that will give him his money he will take it. It's not like he actually has to work for this project. Though personally I don't see how SimDag could be making any money if 50% of the profits are going to trump and now there's a hedge fund involved (which could easily take the other 50%). Add on having to woo the buyers with upgrades and incentives like BizJournal mentioned. But I guess if they end up not making a whole bunch of money it's still better than losing their shirts in lawsuits from all the buyers.

^If Trump's deal is for 50% of the profits, and there is little or no profit, then he is losing money too... I'm sure that is being renegotiated though... :)

Right - I am sure the source that the TBBJ used is not in the know. I think the most telling sign of immediate progress will be if there is an announcement that the Trump organization has dropped their lawsuit permanently.

From what I saw, TBBJ didn't contact Trump. That was the Tribune. In fact, it looks like TBBJ recognizes that Trump is just a licensee and that talking to him is like calling up H.B. Plant back in the 19th century to ask him about the Strawberry Festival in Plant City.

^ Well little or no profit from SimDag is what I meant. I would not be surprised at all if the hedge fund made a similar deal as Trump (a certain interest rate and then a percentage on top). So if anyone is making a lot of cash off this, it aint going to be SimDag.

I'm sure Trump would prefer this project moves forward. He is a smart business man and if the porject is declared dead, it will still leave a stain on his organization moving forward.
It will appear Trump will license his name to anyone for a few MIL and a share of profits IF the local developer pulls off the project versus his reputation of doing his due diligence BEFORE signing on to A project. He will probably be a little more careful in who he partners with in the future after this fiasco.

^I don't know... He's doing 'get rich quick' audio tapes now... I don't he's too picky where the cash comes from, so long as it winds up in his pocket more often than not.

I would say he has plenty of money right now. He just announced a few weeks ago that mega multi-billion dollar golf resort in Scotland near Aberdeen. I think he's doing just fine these days ;)

Well the beauty of how Trump operates is he risks other people's money. (e.g. his deal here had no risk whatsoever...) Not bad work if you can find it. But I'm with Jason about how as long as the check clears he's not going to be too picky.

http://images.forbes.com/media/lists/53/2007/U5WX.jpg

Power Rank 19
Pay $32 mil
Category: Personalities

Pay Rank: 32
Web Rank: 28
Press Rank: 27
TV/Radio Rank: 8

The brazen billionaire's day job is building and selling skyscrapers, but most know him from his other gig, co-hosting The Apprentice, NBC's reality TV show. Trump inked a sweet deal with producer Mark Burnett, guaranteeing him a per-episode salary along with a cut of product placement deals. Ratings slumped in the sixth season, in which Trump (estimated net worth: $2.9 billion) moved the competition to Los Angeles. At press time, NBC was still deciding whether to renew the show. Meanwhile, Trump, who has a toddler son, became a grandpa this year.

Has Trump settled with SimDag over the whole lawsuit that he filed? Or maybe I have'nt been reading up on it too well.

^^ No. Trump and SimDag have agreed to a 45 day delay of the litigation. This was jointly filled inidicating that both sides wish to negotiate. The reports have been that this negotiation was initiated because SimDag had an agreement in principle to fund the project. The latest news is that they have a commitment from the NY hedge fund that they are dealing with. Since the original report stated that a condition of funding was that Trump would drop the law suit, we can only assume that the commitment announcement implies some positive movement with the Trump Organization.

Of course a much more positive sign will be the next article to hope for (or against if you don't want the project) might say something like Trump has dropped the suit and SimDag has positively obtained financing.

Then - I guess SimDag has to find a way to retain as many buyers as they can - surely a challenge. However it appears that buyers may have to sue in order to get "out" of the contract and get their money back. SimDag hinted at some major incentives to keep people in the fold. We will see what those are if the time comes. Perhaps they can sweeten the pot enough to make people excited about the project again. I anticipate that there will be some return to excitement from all the gloom and doom IF they can make it that far. And god bless them if they can actually get a tower crane up then I am sure even the most hardened doubters on this site will get excited.

All in all - still a lot for them to do before this is a done deal.

Buyer Sues Trump, Tower Developers Over Marketing
By Shannon Behnken of The Tampa Tribune

Published: October 9, 2007

TAMPA - Another lawsuit has been filed against the developers and others involved in the troubled Trump Tower Tampa project by buyers seeking their deposits back.

Jugal Taneja and Manju Taneja of Largo claim in their suit that they were misled to believe that real estate mogul Donald Trump was a partner in the condo tower project. They later learned that he only licensed his name to local developer SimDag LLC, the suit states.

"Mr. Trump has a reputation and my clients were relying on his expertise," said the Tanejas' attorney, Dean Papas of Gray Robinson in Tampa. "The truth is all he did was take money out of it."

The suit, filed Monday in Hillsborough County Circuit Court, names Trump, SimDag and each of the original individual development partners.

Trump and Kathy Rentas, an attorney representing SimDag, could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

In the suit, the Tenejas claim the defendants signed a confidentiality agreement "to keep the true relationship between Defendant Trump and the remaining defendants a secret." By doing that, the sellers and Trump violated Florida's Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act, the suit contends.

In conversations with the Tanejas and in marketing materials, the suit claims, the defendants stated that Trump was a "partner" in the project.

One brochure, for example, featured a statement signed by Trump that said, "I am very proud to partner with SimDag/RoBel in presenting the Trump Tower Tampa," the suit says. Another promotional sheet, entitled "The Partners," featured photos of Patrick Sheppard, Howard Howell, Jody Simon, Robert Lyons, Frank Dagostino – and Trump, according to the suit.

The Tanejas' suit comes on the heels of a judgment issued last month by Hillsborough County Circuit Judge Frank Gomez. He ruled SimDag must pay $587,916 to ADAJA Properties LLC, a Tampa company that purchased two condos. SimDag failed to respond to the suit.

SimDag's attorney, Kathy Rentas of the law firm Becker & Poliakoff, told the Tribune at the time that the response wasn't filed because she didn't know about the suit. She said she planned to ask the judge to set aside the default and vacate the judgment.

Two other buyers also have filed suits against the project, seeking deposits back. Those suits are pending.

The $300 million Trump Tower was announced in early 2005 as a luxury 52-story high-rise on the Hillsborough River downtown. The project never went vertical. The developer struggled to obtain construction financing and ran into trouble with unstable soil beneath the site and rising construction costs.

In May, Trump sued seeking to terminate his licensing agreement with SimDag. That's when Papas, the attorney for the Tanejas, said they discovered the licensing agreement.

The Tanejas put down a 20 percent deposit, or $528,000 on a $2.64 million unit. Half was put in escrow and the rest was available to the developer to use for construction costs. Papas said SimDag has agreed to return the escrow portion of the money – as the original contract mandates – to anyone wanting to drop out of the purchase agreement.

SimDag LLC recently told buyers that it has received a "commitment agreement" for a loan from a New York hedge fund and still wants to build the tower. The company has not said since whether the deal has been signed or not.

Meanwhile, Don Wallace, a Pinellas County resident who says his wife and two partners also put a deposit on a condo, is trying to organize a meeting later this month for buyers to discuss options.

"Yeah, we can get our escrow money back, but that's still a big hit to take," Wallace said, referring to contract provisions which allow the developer to keep half the deposit if a buyer drops out of a contract.


Reporter Carol Gentry contributed to this report. Reporter Shannon Behnken can be reached at (813) 259-7804 or sbehnken@tampatrib.com.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/oct/09/buyer-sues-trump-tower-developers-over-marketing/?news-metro

^^
:rofl:

*sigh*

This really isn't fun anymore.


btw, Trump had better watch it... His whole business is predicated upon his image and reputation.

*sigh*

This really isn't fun anymore.


btw, Trump had better watch it... His whole business is predicated upon his image and reputation.

If so then why doesn't he care?
My dad knows Trump, and my dad asked him about it. Trump said he is so pissed off at the situation. My dad asked if he would help it get built and he responded that he wasn't sure if he was or not.
This whole thing was a joke, SimDag drop your stupid vision and get a better piece of architecture.

You have to be a real sap to not be able to figure out Trump's true involvement before droping $528k on a down payment . "Sim Dag said he was a partner!" That's usually what you call someone who takes half the loot in exchange for marketing. Did you think he was going to design your bathroom or something?

I didn't buy one of the units and I knew from the start it was a licensing deal. That's how the vast majority of his "real estate" works. Read a book or a magazine article sometime, preferably before writing a check for a half mil.

You have to be a real sap to not be able to figure out Trump's true involvement before droping $528k on a down payment . "Sim Dag said he was a partner!" That's usually what you call someone who takes half the loot in exchange for marketing. Did you think he was going to design your bathroom or something?

I didn't buy one of the units and I knew from the start it was a licensing deal. That's how the vast majority of his "real estate" works. Read a book or a magazine article sometime, preferably before writing a check for a half mil.

:rofl: got to love Florida's brilliant residents.

You have to be a real sap to not be able to figure out Trump's true involvement before droping $528k on a down payment . "Sim Dag said he was a partner!" That's usually what you call someone who takes half the loot in exchange for marketing. Did you think he was going to design your bathroom or something?

I didn't buy one of the units and I knew from the start it was a licensing deal. That's how the vast majority of his "real estate" works. Read a book or a magazine article sometime, preferably before writing a check for a half mil.


+1

The entire project is DEAD! Get it over with SimDag. Its OVER!

No way! I drove by there this morning and someone had mowed all the weeds down! They MUST be ready to start up again!! (is anyone picking up on my sarcasim, i hope?)

Whether its dead or not is purely conjecture at this point, what is not conjecture is that this has been a perfect model for how not to construct a high rise project. A true comedy of errors. None, the less its fun to sit atop our hill and watch the vultures circle as we wait to see the final outcome.

I will stop saying that when I finally see the tower go up.

This article is from the Chicago Sun-Times, regarding the Trump Tower under construction there.

Some friend Trump turns out to be
Couple sue after developer cancels their discounted contract on tower condo

October 11, 2007

Donald Trump is used to having the final word.

Fired contestants on "The Apprentice" don't typically fire back: "Hey, buddy, you can't do that to me!"

But Judi Diamond-Falk, a Chicago architect, has no plans to quietly walk away from a cut-price deal she and her husband made four years ago to buy one of the Donald's condos at Trump Tower, now rising on the site of the old Chicago Sun-Times building.

The Diamond-Falks filed a lawsuit last month, trying to stop Trump from backing out of the deal just because he wants more money for their unit.

Last year, a Trump attorney sent the Diamond-Falks a blunt letter saying the contract they signed to buy a condo -- as part of a "friends and family" program -- was now "null and void," according to the lawsuit.

Judi Diamond-Falk says Trump's behavior is outrageous. "If this is how he treats his friends and family, how does he treat total strangers?" she said in an interview Wednesday.

She said she has spoken to other early buyers who received similar letters.

In published reports this week, Trump said he doesn't want to sell condos for less than the price to build them, and he says language in the sales contracts allows him to renegotiate a higher price. Trump could not be reached for comment Wednesday.
'Concept ... is ludicrous'

Four years ago, the Diamond-Falks signed a contract to buy a $1.1 million condo with views of the river and Lake Michigan. As an incentive to buy early, the Diamond-Falks received a 10 percent discount.

Their unit is on the 45th floor. It has limestone bathrooms, exotic wood floors and top-of-the-line appliances, Judi Diamond-Falk said. Before the dispute with Trump, the Diamond-Falks -- who live in Evanston -- hadn't decided whether they would live in the condo or sell it.

Soon after they signed the sales agreement, the Diamond-Falks received grateful letters from Trump's people, thanking them for helping boost sales, according to the Diamond-Falks' lawsuit. "You are the project's ambassadors," one letter read.

But in June 2006, the Diamond-Falks received a letter from a Trump attorney saying, without an apology, that their sale contract was now "null and void," and asking where to send their down payment.

Attorneys for the Diamond-Falks said Wednesday they've never heard of a situation where a developer can legally pull out of a sales agreement just because he wants more money from the deal. "The concept that you could cancel a contract is ludicrous," said attorney Michael Abramson.

Participants in the friends and family program signed a contract, taking a risk that the condos wouldn't sell and that they'd be stuck with a bad investment, Judi Diamond-Falk said. "Do you think [Trump] would have canceled the contract and given us our money back if . . . he thought it was a poor investment?" Diamond-Falk said.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/598515,CST-NWS-trump11.article

SimDag's attorney, Kathy Rentas of the law firm Becker & Poliakoff, told the Tribune at the time that the response wasn't filed because she didn't know about the suit. She said she planned to ask the judge to set aside the default and vacate the judgment.

Erm. We knew about it. It was in the paper. BEFORE the judgment was issued. So it's not just SIMDAG who are proving incompetent and silly, it's their lawyer, too.

Mirabilis divests assets, shutting down
With hundreds of millions of dollars in losses on the table, Mirabilis Ventures Inc. - a one-time player in the Trump Tower Tampa project - is shutting everything down after divesting all of its operating and non-financial assets.

The move comes as the Orlando-based private equity fund has reported total losses of $285 million along with other costs and punitive damages, according to a release from the company.

Since the beginning of the year, 24 legal actions had been filed against the company with 16 of them either dismissed or settled. Of the eight remaining lawsuits, Mirabilis has filed counterclaims saying it is owed $14 million.

The company's assets will be converted to notes and stocks, and Mirabilis has filed five lawsuits against companies that have received loans or investments from Mirabilis that haven't been repaid or didn't generate promised returns, it said.

Some of these companies, Mirabilis executives said, were started by former company executives with funds or property from Mirabilis that didn't carry the necessary agreements to compensate the company for its employee time or the value of its investments.

The release did not name those individuals.

Mirabilis is seeking $47 million in investments and loans and another $200 million in other damages.

Mirabilis executives said they are assigning all the proceeds from the divestitures and lawsuits to the Internal Revenue Service until it can be determined whether Mirabilis - as a creditor for the now-defunct Presidion Solutions Inc. - is liable for any unpaid payroll taxes incurred by Presidion and its subsidiaries.

When Mirabilis announced it was taking over the Trump Tower project in November 2006, then executive VP Woody Johnson said the transition of management would be "seamless."

"It's not like we're going to stop the job," Johnson said at the time. "We're going to clean up the old mess, the old liens."

Not only was the transition not seamless, there were about whether Mirabilis ever took over the 52-story tower project at all.

However, Mirabilis principal Frank Amodeo was a director in Titanium Technologies Inc., which was part of SID Clearwater Marina LLC with SimDag Investments LLC and was the subject of a foundation contractor lawsuit in Clearwater last April.

At the time of the report, former SimDag spokesman David Hooks said Mirabilis had yet to finalize its deal to take over Trump Tower Tampa and the Antigua Bay Yacht Club in Clearwater despite the deal being announced the previous year. At the time, Mirabilis already was being investigated by a federal grand jury about not turning over to the government taxes collected by the company from its clients.

Another investment Mirabilis made in the area, to St. Petersburg-based Community Health Solutions of America, ended in Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in April 2006. The company - which was half-owned by Mirabilis - watched revenues fall from $22.8 million in 2003 to just under $7 million in 2005, owing $3.7 million to creditors. The company, at the time, blamed the loss of two key contracts as being responsible for the drop in revenue.

"These two customers have a contract with the company saying they'll do business with them unless CHS becomes insolvent," Johnson said at the time. "By us stepping in, putting in a plan to pay off 100 percent of the creditors, keeps it away from having that insolvency brand that would jeopardize the contracts."

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/10/08/daily55.html?page=1

wow, that's lovely.

That sucks. We can't fully blame this on TTT though, except if I read the article wrong. Were they in this pile of crap before they were planning to take over?

Wow, who didn't see that one coming? They won't be the last either.

This project was doomed from day one...

I hope this project is dead...I'd rather see Venu being built and on the TTT site should be something smaller, about 450 ft tall....the TTT design wasn't that bad but in the wrong location..it would have messed up the skyline....

I say the project is already ...nuff said.

^I had no problem with the scale of the TTT. It really wasn't that big in functional terms. Only ~220 units, and a bit of retail commercial on the ground floor. Tall yes, but it's DT, literally adjacent to the city's tallest. I could care less how tall it was.

I too am 'glad' in a way, because I never thought that type of project was a good fit for that site. I'm with others who have also voiced that the site is more suited for some sort of tower featuring a hotel coupled with office or residential floors. I would prioritize a good ground floor plan to interact with the park, riverwalk and Ashley St also. To me, good circulation at ground level is the lynchpin to any project on that site, and is probably even more important than the use.

That building was not a Tampa design either, it wasn't so great. I think something like what you said would fit better, Jason.

Time to get this thread going again ...

We need to show these guys some love ... these guys have been on top of this story forever. :)

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/10/22/daily37.html?jst=b_ln_hl

Trump set to drop suit against developer
Tampa Bay Business Journal - by Michael Hinman and Alexis Muellner

Donald J. Trump, the New York real estate mogul who licensed his name to a proposed luxury condominium tower in downtown Tampa, is ready to drop his lawsuit against SimDag LLC.

SimDag's president and chief executive, Frank Dagostino, received a verbal commitment from the Trump Organization Wednesday that would end a breach of contract action between the two parties contingent on SimDag closing a $235 million financing deal with a yet-to-be-identified New York hedge fund.

"He wants to be made whole on what we owe him up to today," Dagostino told the Tampa Bay Business Journal. "It's going to be a Trump Signature building, and he has already signed off on every aspect of the building."

The final documents are still waiting to be finalized and have yet to be filed with the U.S. District Court's Tampa Division, but when they are, the suit will be placed in escrow and officially dropped when financing is closed. Dagostino said he expects to have funding secured by the end of the year.

Christopher Griffin of Foley & Lardner, who is representing the Trump Organization in the action, was not immediately available for comment.

Trump filed the case against SimDag in May saying that the tower developer still owed him more than $1 million in licensing fees and demanding that his name be removed from the project. However, in August, both sides agreed to a 45-day extension of the lawsuit when SimDag revealed that it had received a verbal commitment from a lender to fund the tower.
A reason to stay

Keeping Trump on board was key to keeping the 52-story project alive, Dagostino said.

"There were two contingencies that were on the funding," he said. "We had to have Donald Trump drop the suit, which we have achieved, and we have to capture right around $100 million worth of sales from people signing extensions with us."

Those extensions are agreements SimDag is striking with buyers that would allow the company to have until December 2010 to finish construction instead of December 2008, which is in the current contracts. That extension, however, also is contingent on funding for the project to close, Dagostino said.

So far, 35 percent of the 100 buyers still on board have agreed verbally to take the extension, and Dagostino hopes to have even more after presenting at a private, scheduled buyer's meeting Wednesday evening. A formal document to extend the time is still under legal review and will be presented to buyers as soon as it's ready, he said.

Buyers aren't just being asked to agree to new terms, however. SimDag is offering a number of incentives to keep them on board, including a credit of 2.5 percent of their purchase price that can be applied to unit upgrades. Buyers also will receive a 5 percent APR non-compounding return on the money being held in escrow based on $12 million in deposits.

"It will be a very good incentive plan," Dagostino said. "We also will guarantee that we will not undercut their price [in the sale of other units], which is important in the current market. Some of the big markets right now are dumping units, but we have the luxury of not doing that because of our Trump branding."

^^
Lovely. I hope this will be the start of the building ACTUALLY GETTING BUILT.

Well at least its not bad news. Still awaiting to see if this thing will actually get off the ground.

It must be destiny, because this tower has got to be one of the most resilient projects that I have ever seen!!! I'm just wondering how soon will they be able to resume construction on this thing once everything is sorted out??

It should not take too long....spray some weed killer and get crackin'!! Well really though, one has to wonder; probobly not more than a few weeks. They would have to line up some contractors and secure a few cranes...which would take the longest....and maybe a few more things hehe...

Steve

It should not take too long....spray some weed killer and get crackin'!!

Steve

^Actually, they have mowed the site already. With the former forest of weeds piled up in one corner, at least that's how it was 2 weeks ago. :)

^^
Lovely. I hope this will be the start of the building ACTUALLY GETTING BUILT.

This project was doomed from day one...
Can you ever make up your mind? :lol:

I've been behind this project from day one. Suggested some changes, but couldn't see the effort go to waste. I hope something will happen soon, but will the housing market delay this even longer?

I do not know... Pres... I am with you on this one, but with the determination of SimDag and others, I do not think that this project will be inhibited by the current market.

It must be destiny, because this tower has got to be one of the most resilient projects that I have ever seen!!!
You got that right...lol

I tell you what, if they actually retain 100 buyers, this thing really could get built.

Offer May Let Trump Tower Rise
By SHANNON BEHNKEN, The Tampa Tribune

Published: October 25, 2007

TAMPA - The fate of the stalled 52-story Trump Tower Tampa may rest in the hands of its buyers.

A New York hedge fund representative told about 80 buyers and their representatives Wednesday night that the fund is prepared to finance the luxury condo tower - but only if enough of them agree to sign new contracts, according to Don Wallace, a Pinellas County buyer who organized the meeting.

'Generally, buyers arrived with lots of questions and left much more positive,' Wallace said of the meeting, held at Centre Club Tampa.

Construction of the $300 million Trump Tower in downtown Tampa was announced with much fanfare in early 2005, but the developer, Tampa-based SimDag LLC, has been unable to obtain financing. The project is mired in liens and lawsuits, including one from Donald Trump, who sold rights to his name for the tower.

SimDag CEO Frank Dagostino said last month that the hedge fund is the last resort and that if the financing doesn't happen, he will return buyers' deposits.

A representative from New York-based Red Bridge Capital, which is negotiating the deal, outlined the hedge fund's stipulations, Wallace said.

Currently, SimDag has $135 million in sales contracts, according to Wallace. Since the old contracts mandate the building be completed next year, new two-year contracts are needed.

As long as SimDag can come up with $100 million in new contracts, the hedge fund will finance the project, Wallace said buyers were told.

Buyers also were offered an incentive package that included interest on deposits and an allowance to be spent on upgrades to their condos.

Reporter Shannon Behnken can be reached at (813) 259-7804 or sbehnken@tampatrib.com.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/oct/25/me-offer-may-let-trump-tower-rise/

It must be destiny, because this tower has got to be one of the most resilient projects that I have ever seen!!! I'm just wondering how soon will they be able to resume construction on this thing once everything is sorted out??

I think the develelper is so determined because SimDag has dumped pretty much all they have in this project. So It's make or brake for their company as well.

Can you ever make up your mind? :lol:

I've been behind this project from day one. Suggested some changes, but couldn't see the effort go to waste. I hope something will happen soon, but will the housing market delay this even longer?

I'll still be skeptical about the tower going up until I ACTUALLY SEE IT GO UP. There.

I'm not angry, but a bit irritated. It's no big deal...I sometimes contradict myself.

So far, 35 percent of the 100 buyers still on board have agreed verbally to take the extension, and Dagostino hopes to have even more after presenting at a private, scheduled buyer's meeting Wednesday evening. A formal document to extend the time is still under legal review and will be presented to buyers as soon as it's ready, he said.

Buyers aren't just being asked to agree to new terms, however. SimDag is offering a number of incentives to keep them on board, including a credit of 2.5 percent of their purchase price that can be applied to unit upgrades. Buyers also will receive a 5 percent APR non-compounding return on the money being held in escrow based on $12 million in deposits.

"It will be a very good incentive plan," Dagostino said. "We also will guarantee that we will not undercut their price [in the sale of other units], which is important in the current market. Some of the big markets right now are dumping units, but we have the luxury of not doing that because of our Trump branding."

This will be the challenge for them. I wonder how many they have to retain in order to build it. I would guess 75-85% - just a guess. 35% is a good start - but they have a long way to go - and actually have to get signatures. Personally (If you didnt know already) I am routing for them big time. I am guessing it is probably more realistic to retain about 60-65%. I am just not sure if that will be enough for the financiers.

I don't know why some of you guys got hung up on that stupid lawsuit over Trump's involvement. That person is clearly an idiot and that suit has no merit imho.

Element, SkyPoint and TTT could all look nice in 2009. Maybe Twelve will be U/C too.

Venu is the one I'm waiting for.

Venu is beautiful - and of course I hope it gets built too. But they have a much longer road to go in this condo market than Trump has. Trump is close. I just hope they are able to pull it out.

I visited Venu during the urban home tour and while I think the exterior architecture is quite stunning, the floorplans for the condos themselves sucked, imho.

In order for them to get the velocity they need, they're going to have to drop their pricing by at least $100k.. $389k for a 900+/- sq. foot one bed condo with no balcony is not going to cut it. Plus, most of the floorplans had no "wow" to them at all, unlike the exterior design of the building.

To me, Trump tower has superior condos (if you compare Venu's $700k+ units vs. Trump) for livability, and I believe that will help give them an edge...

Okay, so Venu sucks inside, and Trump sucks outside.

Is that about the size of it ?

That's still quite a bit less per square foot than Trump. The Trump interiors sound very traditional and IMO boring. High-end obviously, but really conservative and geared towards older people. I'd feel like I was at my grandma's or something, albeit with a nicer view. If the interior of Venu is anything like the exterior, it would attract a whole other kind of buyer.

From where I sit, Trump Tower would not be hip. Definitely prestigious, but not hip. Venu would be both. Sort of old money versus new money.

From where I sit, Trump Tower would not be hip. Definitely prestigious, but not hip. Venu would be both. Sort of old money versus new money.

I think that this Trump project is targeting that demographic. Most of the projects DT at this point have been targeted at the 25-45 demo that is on the better off end. Trump (at least this one) is geared towards an older demo, someone that would not be attracted to the "hip" stylings of Venu or some of the other projects. Someone that is looking at a Trump Tower Tampa condo would be looking for prestige, not the most modern style, IMHO.

Steve

Maybe some of those NIMBYs on Bayshore can move into Trump and get some of their prestige back.

I am sure it would, as long as they could bring their :llama: with them!

Steve

Ok, I really have just been looking for an excuss to use that emoticon...

That's still quite a bit less per square foot than Trump. The Trump interiors sound very traditional and IMO boring. High-end obviously, but really conservative and geared towards older people. I'd feel like I was at my grandma's or something, albeit with a nicer view. If the interior of Venu is anything like the exterior, it would attract a whole other kind of buyer.

From where I sit, Trump Tower would not be hip. Definitely prestigious, but not hip. Venu would be both. Sort of old money versus new money.

I think that this Trump project is targeting that demographic. Most of the projects DT at this point have been targeted at the 25-45 demo that is on the better off end. Trump (at least this one) is geared towards an older demo, someone that would not be attracted to the "hip" stylings of Venu or some of the other projects. Someone that is looking at a Trump Tower Tampa condo would be looking for prestige, not the most modern style, IMHO.

Steve

Projects like TTT have to be geared torwards older retiree folks, or people that are higher up in comapnies (usually older folks) located in downtown. How many middle-aged people that are rich enough to afford a unit in TTT want to live in downtown Tampa?

Okay, so Venu sucks inside, and Trump sucks outside.

Is that about the size of it ?

I guess it depends who you ask.

http://www.trumptowertampa.com/images/gallery/model/model_1.jpg

^^ I don't think its bad at all. It is not the Chrysler Building or the Transamerica Pyramid, but it is distinctive from what is already in downtown and blends in nicely in my opinion. But I know there are others that hate it. I have to say - the original renderings were ugly - but this model is much better in my opinion

Plus - it creates a solid stretch of riverwalk to the CC.

^^ I happen to agree with you on your assestment multifamilyinvestor. Maybe it isn't too late for the architect(s) to make some minor changes to the design before the possibility of going vertical soon. Besides, there may be another rendering that hasn't been released to the public yet. :dunno:

The design isn't all that bad. It has honestly grown on me a little.

^^ I happen to agree with you on your assestment multifamilyinvestor. Maybe it isn't too late for the architect(s) to make some minor changes to the design before the possibility of going vertical soon. Besides, there may be another rendering that hasn't been released to the public yet. :dunno:

Do you know something we do not?

All I have to say is that I encourage everyone to visit Venu's sales gallery if you want to make a comparison. I've seen both TTT and Venu, and my opinion comes directly from what I learned at both sales galleries.

I don't know how anyone would call the floorplans/units at Venu "hip". In fact, they were no better than an apartment builder's design... I'm not kidding either. Some of them looked like they were ripped straight from a standard suburban apartment complex. (The only caveat to that was their two story units, which are similar to Victory Lofts two-story units).

Trump Tower's designs are filled with rich details and interesting angles. Stuffy? Yes. Distinct? Absolutely.

Venu's designs were neither hip or distinctive.... I will say that the Thermador appliances that are included are nice, but those are just appliances.

The question comes down to whether Venu's upper end buyers will choose to live in a building that is architecturally stunning, yet undistinctive and blah on the inside. I know that's a little harsh, but I was expecting Venu's stunning architecture to carry forward to the units themselves. I left the sales center somewhat speechless.

Just my two cents.. I felt like I needed to explain how I derived my opinions that were expressed earlier.

Hmm, sounds like I gotta check out the Venu sales gallery. Interesting.

I was hoping this Trump project as is would go away. I don't like the location. I don't like the crown design. Some sort of spire would look cool and give it more height.

I've always liked the design, I just don't particularly care too much for the location. :cheers:

Some sort of spire would look cool and give it more height.

Problem is that the FAA has already been bitching about height. At one point they made TTT drop a whole 2 feet. :ohno:

Problem is that the FAA has already been bitching about height. At one point they made TTT drop a whole 2 feet. :ohno:

Florida Future:),
Our Tampa Bay Master and friend,
In your opinion,
Do you think this Trump Tower of Tampa or a different name or company, condo or office tower, will in your mind, thinking for about 3 minutes, will ever get built at any height in the next 5 years, till the end of 2012 ???:ohno:

I like the design as well. This will be a different tower for our core, edgy modern towers are fun, but it is nice to have a richer looking design as well. I think the location is fine too, it helps expand our height towardst the Marriotte.

Steve

This thread is funny. Two months ago you guys hated this project.