Multi, Tampa Tower's bankrupt. That's dead...

Gibralter -- the gusy behind Venu -- also have an YBor Channel project that I am surprised no one has posted on the forum. David Piniero at Tamparail.org made mentionof it on his site. There were PDF's and such and a park was planned as part of the development.

But I digress. That's further taking things off topic and... Oh, hell.. while I'm at it... Hey Jo?! How was Wrestlemania??? :)

Right - I am aware of Gibralter's other development. It has been discussed in depth in another thread. The thing with that is that they are making LOOOOONNNNNG term plans with that development on the Ybor channel. They are planning to build it out in 20 years if I am not mistaken. I don't expect that OR Venu to be built anytime soon - like I said - Given the current market.

Now that doesn't mean that Venu couldn't be built if they can hold out for a few years.

My only point is that I think Venu can't sell in the current market. TTT has already sold SOME but not as much as they have originally reported. Given the current market - it is more likely IMO that Trump gets built as they claim to be near the number of sales that they need for a loan and appear to have got some people to resign as recently as the last 4-5 months!

Although again, it is a long shot.

Actually it has been discussed a bit (if I am not mistaken) in the "Channelside Development" thread. That is the complex that is being built between 2 and 20 years from now...

Steve
Hence why I didn't bother with it... As always, I'm not too keen on wasting our time talking about fantasies...

I'm surprised they didn't announce this possible plan earlier...

Trump Tower Tampa ... and hotel?
With a self-imposed March 31 deadline long past, Trump Tower Tampa developer Frank Dagostino says he's working with a few buyers who want to back out of their condominium deals and recoup at least their escrow.

Financing is still not finalized, but the SimDag LLC chief executive continues to show resolve, suggesting that he's still not giving up on the $225 million, 52-story project.

Now, he says, it could morph into a condo-hotel.

"We're pushing forward with the project, but we may have to change the scope of it," Dagostino said Thursday. "We are exploring every avenue that we can, and if we need to make adjustments to the project, we will."

Another hotel for downtown?
Since first announcing the tower while standing alongside Donald Trump in January 2005, SimDag leaders have struggled to get its Ashley Drive site past the foundation stage. Soil issues delayed the project for months, and by the time SimDag was ready to attempt going vertical, the housing market took a nose dive and Trump Tower Tampa has been in development limbo ever since.

Since late last year, fueling on-again, off-again speculation, SimDag said it has been working with an unidentified New York hedge fund interested in funding construction, but the Tampa market continues to remain risky for new condominium development and the lender has opted to wait for it to improve, Dagostino said.

A hotel component could speed up the development process and also open the door to new funding sources that view a hotel as having less risk.

"We will have the ability to go to other types of lenders," Dagostino said.

Existing downtown Tampa hotels are boasting an occupancy of 65 percent year-round, according to Tampa Bay & Company and the Hillsborough County Hotel & Motel Association, but the local tourism industry has long called for more hotel rooms, especially if the area wants to continue to compete for sport championship games, major conventions and more Super Bowl events.

While it might be easier to change the project to a hotel exclusively, Dagostino said he is remaining committed to those buyers who have been patient and who really want to live in a tower with Trump's name on it. While it's not uncommon for Trump to lend his name to or even develop mixed condo/hotel projects, it wasn't certain that he would continue to offer his name for the Tampa project.

"Mr. Trump has done everything that he can do. He really has," Dagostino said. "He's a good guy, but he's still a businessman. He's trying to do what's best for the city of Tampa as well, but it all comes down to economics. There are bad economics in Florida right now, so what do you do? We think you should try to push forward and try to make the best of what you have."

Trump sued SimDag last May demanding the remaining $1 million balance owed to him for the Tampa developers to license his name. SimDag countersued suggesting Trump breached a contract with the developers when he revealed that he was not part of the development team and instead was being paid to have his name included on the project.

Dagostino has maintained, however, that if SimDag can pay Trump what he owes, both suits would be settled, and it's likely that Trump's name would remain on the project.

A call to The Trump Organization in New York is pending return.

For better or for worse
If and when the true fate of the project is determined, there definitely will be a slightly smaller group of buyers than there was at the beginning of the year.

But allowing some buyers out of their contracts is something Dagostino says is keeping his word that he would work with them through all obstacles.

"We're not asking people to leave their contracts. Some people have asked us," he said. "We are trying to do what's best for everybody. We've been fighting this battle for a number of years [to get Trump Tower off the ground], and you know, we still think it's a viable project. It's on a wonderful waterfront lot, and it's a shame that we hit the market when we hit it."

Or maybe not.

Other projects that did get completed during the most recent real estate boom are now struggling to avoid defaults with lenders. It's something that could have also afflicted Trump Tower Tampa if it had been built on schedule.

"You have the most spectacular building that I have ever seen with the Towers of Channelside," Dagostino said. "It's beautiful. There should be units flying off the market there," he said. "But the units aren't selling, and they are doing their best. It's a shame, but it impacts all other projects around them, including us."

Towers of Channelside LLC filed to reorganize under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection last January.

Dagostino has refused to hoist a white flag when it comes to Trump Tower Tampa, and he said he's committed to continue fighting to get the project off the ground no matter what grenades are lobbed at him.

"Most developers have to throw in the towel when there are too many lawsuits piling up or in potential foreclosure situations," he said. "They have no choice but to try and get protection. I've never thrown in the towel. We didn't cause this economy, we're just trying to work in it."

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2008/04/28/daily42.html?page=1

lolol... They must have been reading the forum!

(j/k)

If that was the case, they also would have announced "Don't stop Believing" was now the official project song...

Oh, how I wish this project would just snap to black already....

Hey, if they incorporate a few dozen hotel rooms (or more) the project gets proportionally more attractive to me, silly architecture be damned.

If that was the case, they also would have announced "Don't stop Believing" was now the official project song...

Oh, how I wish this project would just snap to black already....

lol

This thing will never get built just kill it!!!

Heck, why not Hancock it up a little bit and make it office-condo-hotel? With ground-floor retail that's a part of the hotel lobby?

Mediator found in Donald Trump, SimDag lawsuit

The legal scuffle between New York real estate mogul Donald Trump and the developers of Trump Tower Tampa have found a mediator for settling their licensing dispute outside of court.

Peter J. Grilli, who has mediated more than 3,000 cases from his Tampa office since 1993, was chosen to help resolve the dispute between Trump and SimDag/RoBEL that has been in the U.S. District Court Middle District of Florida for nearly a year.

Trump is suing for more than $1 million in licensing fees he says he's owed for Trump Tower Tampa, a proposed 52-story condominium tower on Ashley Drive in downtown Tampa that has yet to be financed. SimDag countersued claiming Trump breached a confidentiality clause in his licensing agreement when he admitted that he was not an actual development partner and instead was simply lending his name and standards to the $225 million tower.

Grilli spent two years as a law clerk for Judge Ben Krentzman in the U.S. District Court in the late 1970s and was a lawyer in private practice between 1979 and 1993. He received his bachelor's degree in American studies from Yale College in 1973 and his law degree in 1977 from Georgetown University, a resume on his Web site says.

A date for the lawsuit to be heard by Judge James D. Whittemore has been set for Feb. 2, 2009. When setting the date, Whittemore ordered that both sides try to settle the case through a mediator by August.

Frank Dagostino, chief executive of SimDag, has maintained that Trump would drop the lawsuit if SimDag secures financing for the 52-story residential tower and pays the money owed to Trump. Dagostino also said the reality television host could possibly consider keeping his name on the building, something Dagostino has insisted is absolutely necessary for the project to move forward.

Last week, Dagostino said that with financing still not secured, he is considering repositioning Trump Tower Tampa as a condo-hotel project.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2008/05/05/daily25.html?surround=lfn

^^ Man, this is starting to get a little ridiculous and has really been dragged on for way too long!!! :ohno:

I've never heard of a mediation that takes 10 months... No wonder it took them so long to find someone, they probably couldn't find anyone willing to schedule that far in advance!

10 months to get to trial is common (I use to do legal scheduling). This thing could be wrapped up by mediation in a month, if both sides wanted it to!

A date for the lawsuit to be heard by Judge James D. Whittemore has been set for Feb. 2, 2009. When setting the date, Whittemore ordered that both sides try to settle the case through a mediator by August.


The key in that paragraph is that the Judge wants the matter decided by August, not to go to court (which would be in Feb).

Hopefully something will be decided in several months or so rather than having this go to trial. My feelings are that an agreement will be reached before trial. If this gets to the judge then Simdag will basically have lost all credibility (what is left anyway) and most of the current contracts that are left will be disputed.

Steve

Right, that's more reasonable. I skimmed it while working...

Tampa Bay Business Journal is reporting that the bank who holds the mortgage on the land for Trump Tower Tampa is foreclosing.

Friday, June 6, 2008 - 7:52 AM EDT

A buyer's lament: Trump himself blamed for Tampa tower messTampa Bay Business Journal - by Michael Hinman

Deborah Frederick and husband James Frederick aren't typical investors.

James Frederick retired from the U.S. Air Force when he was 38, and has suffered from a variety of medical problems since then involving both his knees and his heart. Deborah Frederick raised a family and took care of her husband. The two never really invested in much of anything, except a home they bought in Cocoa Beach in 1980, and a savings account that had less than $300,000 in it.

"We've never invested in the stock market or did anything like that," Deborah Frederick said.

In Trump We Trust
All of that changed at the beginning of 2005 when New York real estate mogul Donald Trump and his iconic brand came to Central Florida to promote a new 52-story condominium tower that would bear his name in downtown Tampa. With a desire to be closer to their son and grandchildren in Tampa, the Fredericks decided to make the plunge into investing, and gambled most of their savings on a plan to live out their golden years with a $1.33 million unit in what many considered to be an investment slam dunk. Buyers and investors in the project included local sports stars and many successful local business people.

It has been three years since they bought into Trump Tower Tampa, and now the Fredericks are struggling to make sense of what happened to all that promise as hope the proposed $225 million tower will ever get built has come and gone, and come and gone again. In some of the latest developments, Colonial Bank has initiated a foreclosure action that could lead to a sale of the land on the courthouse steps (for more on that story, see the June 6 print edition of the Tampa Bay Business Journal).

For the couple, the person to blame for everything they've been through is Donald Trump himself.

"Donald Trump misled a lot of people," Frederick said. "When he came in, the news people and the TV made us think, 'Oh my God, he is doing so much for Tampa.' We had a lot of trust in Donald Trump because Donald Trump ain't ever let nobody down," she said.

As the start of construction was delayed over and over again, details about Trump's arrangement with SimDag/RoBEL LLC came to light, especially as Trump himself was being blamed for many of the tower's problems. In early 2007, he confirmed what had only been rumor before. Trump was not a developer in the project, nor was he an investor. In fact, the developer, Tampa based SimDag was paying him millions of dollars to use his name, and he was still out more than $1 million of it.

"I don't care who he is, you don't do that to people," Frederick said. "His mouth is bigger than his wallet, and he's misleading a lot of people. What he's done is not very nice."

What's in a name?
Attempts to reach Trump for comment through his New York-based The Trump Organization went without response.

In May 2007, he sued SimDag for more than $1 million in unpaid licensing fees in federal court and demanded his name be removed from the project. SimDag, maintaining that Trump would keep his name on the project when he's paid, still counter sued claiming his revelation about being nothing more than a licensor on the project caused irreparable harm.

Frederick says she would've never bought into the project if Trump's true status had been revealed, and car dealership owner Kevin Brodsky stands with her on that.

Brodsky recently won a $2.1 million judgment against the Trump Tower Tampa developers for a pair of bridge loans he made to SimDag in March 2005 worth $1.6 million. Jody Simon, one of the original partners in the tower, pulled Brodsky on board through a mutual friend, former Tampa Bay Buccaneers halfback Mike Alstott, who also was a buyer in Trump Tower Tampa at the time.

"There's no way I would've done this if I knew what Trump's involvement really was," Brodsky said. "When I did the investment, I thought it was a no-brainer. It was Donald Trump, how could I go bad?"

Trump and SimDag are set to go to trial in their dispute next February if court ordered arbitration doesn't work out. Last month, both sides chose mediator Peter J. Grilli to help settle the dispute outside of court.


http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2008/06/02/daily43.html

Friday, June 6, 2008

Colonial Bank, lender for once Trump-eted tower project pen potential swan songForeclosure, promises mark developer's tortuous effort

Tampa Bay Business Journal - by Michael Hinman Staff Writer


TAMPA -- It may be the end of Trump Tower Tampa as we hardly knew it.

While not marking an official end, the May 7 foreclosure filing on the Ashley Drive land earmarked for the 52-story, $225 million tower is a sign that SimDag LLC's on again, off again sojourn could be finally be coming to a close.

Colonial Bank, a subsidiary of Colonial Bancgroup Inc. (NYSE: CNB), initiated a 108-page foreclosure action through the Hillsborough County Circuit Court against a number of defendants beginning with SimDag/RoBEL LLC, the original name of the Trump Tower Tampa developer.

The bank is seeking a return of more than $3.2 million it loaned the developer in September 2006 to consolidate SimDag's existing mortgages on the land. The note replaced three previous mortgages valued at $6.9 million, according to court documents.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2008/06/09/story2.html

The story, if you're a subscriber, also talks about how they tried to get someone who was suing them to take over the mortgage to "buy some time."

Here's the rest of the main story ...

Foreclosure, not for sure

Frank Dagostino, CEO, told the Tampa Bay Business Journal that he's working with Colonial Bank to halt the foreclosure but said the filing didn't surprise him since the developer is still trying to locate financing.

"We're working on getting our situation with Colonial Bank resolved, and we're doing the best we can," Dagostino said. "We are determined to not let [the foreclosure] happen, and we're doing what we can to work with other lenders to avoid that."

After calls about the suit from the TBBJ, Property Manager Eby Paul sent an e-mail to all buyers informing them about the Colonial Bank action.

Kevin Brodsky, who has ownership stakes in several car dealerships throughout Central Florida including Buchanan Automotive Group in Sarasota, said he was approached to assume the Colonial Bank debt despite his own $2.1 million lawsuit against the developers. Brodsky, who also is named as a defendant in the Colonial Bank action, said three weeks ago he was personally asked by Dagostino to assume the mortgage debt of the land to help "buy some time" for SimDag.

"Frank basically asked me if I could buy out the first mortgage from Colonial to give them a better position to sell the property," Brodsky said Tuesday. He declined.

Hillsborough County Circuit Court Judge Charles E. Bergmann ruled in Brodsky's favor May 15 for the $2.1 million owed to him by SimDag/RoBEL, Dagostino and former partners Jody Simon, Robert Lyons, Patrick Sheppard and Howard Howell based on a pair of $800,000 bridge loans he offered to the developers in March 2005.

A foreclosure auction could force him to go after each developer individually for his money if the land doesn't sell for at least $10 million. Assuming that debt would help prevent that from happening, Brodsky was told, but he decided against it as he felt he would have to abandon his lien against the project.

"Frank was trying to buy himself some time," Brodsky said. "His heart is in the right place. Even though I'm getting hurt for all this money, I give Frank credit for trying so hard to make everyone whole. But his time is running out."

Mark R. King of the Miami law firm Miller Hamilton Snider & Odom LLC who is representing Colonial, said a foreclosure auction could happen as early as the end of the year but likely wouldn't take place until 2009.
It's over when we say it's over

Alan Bridges, CEO of GotRack.com and buyer of an 8,000-square-foot, $6.15 million unit, said as early as the beginning of May that project manager Paul was informing buyers that the tower was done.

"They are refunding deposits," Bridges said last month. "I've been contacted, and they are closing the project. Their plan is to try and sell the property and minimize their exposure, and I'm not a very happy camper."

Bridges was being told about the possible land sale at about the same time Dagostino was telling the Business Journal last month that Trump Tower Tampa could become a condo-hotel.

"If we go forward, and we plan on going forward, the project is probably going to be different than it is today," Dagostino said at the time. "With market conditions the way they are today, the easiest fix is to have a hotel component there."

Selling the land certainly remains an option, Dagostino said, but not everything being said about the tower project is true even if people claim it's coming directly from his project manager.
A Dubai mirage?

Deborah Frederick had planned to snap up a $1.33 million unit at Trump Tower Tampa with her husband, James Frederick, and nearly emptied out the couple's life savings to make the $206,600 deposit in 2005.

Although her husband has been a disabled veteran for more than 30 years, the couple had planned to sell the Cocoa Beach home they've owned since 1980 to help pay the remainder of the unit cost as a way to be closer to their son and grandchildren.

But as her 70-year-old husband's health began to deteriorate, and it was becoming clear that Trump Tower Tampa might not be built, Frederick fought for the return of her deposit, getting half of it back earlier this year.

However, she was still missing a little more than $103,000 plus interest, and Paul gave them a reason why they may want to wait to get the rest back.

"When we got the check [for half the deposit], I called Eby and asked what happened to the interest and what's going to happen with the other money," Frederick said. "He told me that everybody is going to get their money plus the interest on the full amount of money, not just the escrow money. He let me know they've been talking to people in Dubai who are going to put some luxurious hotel on the property.

"Dubai has a lot of money, so I'm still hoping something like this goes through."

Dagostino, however, says buyers like Frederick are mishearing.

"I don't have any comment on that just because it's not accurate," he said. "I don't know what they're hearing. I know exactly what Eby tells people, and I don't believe that."

Editor Alexis Muellner contributed to this report.

Already Posted

"Dubai has a lot of money, so I'm still hoping something like this goes through."

I figured she would have learned after being burned the first time. Some people are incredibly naive.

I saw this ont eh news at noon on Fox 13. They used the unflattering watercolor image of TTT...

Strike up a funeral dirge, matey!

So the question is, what will the bank do with the property? I'm assuming they'll sell it to another developer for a greatly reduced price.

...or the city will buy it. I'd like that.

Maybe Venu will grab it and build that awesome building there - I know, I know, wishful thinking, but one can still dream!

yawn...

I would love for the city to buy the land and have control over what gets developed there. I think there needs to be vertical development there, it just needs to be something that is much more about the riverwalk than the fortress-like Trump Tower was. That's a bad spot for a park imo, because of the deafening racket from the drawbridge. besides, there's virtually zero street action around there, and I don't think making that park that is already there bigger is going to change that.

Friday, June 6, 2008 - 7:52 AM EDT

A buyer's lament: Trump himself blamed for Tampa tower messTampa Bay Business Journal - by Michael Hinman

Deborah Frederick and husband James Frederick aren't typical investors.

James Frederick retired from the U.S. Air Force when he was 38, and has suffered from a variety of medical problems since then involving both his knees and his heart. Deborah Frederick raised a family and took care of her husband. The two never really invested in much of anything, except a home they bought in Cocoa Beach in 1980, and a savings account that had less than $300,000 in it.

"We've never invested in the stock market or did anything like that," Deborah Frederick said.

In Trump We Trust
All of that changed at the beginning of 2005 when New York real estate mogul Donald Trump and his iconic brand came to Central Florida to promote a new 52-story condominium tower that would bear his name in downtown Tampa. With a desire to be closer to their son and grandchildren in Tampa, the Fredericks decided to make the plunge into investing, and gambled most of their savings on a plan to live out their golden years with a $1.33 million unit in what many considered to be an investment slam dunk. Buyers and investors in the project included local sports stars and many successful local business people.

It has been three years since they bought into Trump Tower Tampa, and now the Fredericks are struggling to make sense of what happened to all that promise as hope the proposed $225 million tower will ever get built has come and gone, and come and gone again. In some of the latest developments, Colonial Bank has initiated a foreclosure action that could lead to a sale of the land on the courthouse steps (for more on that story, see the June 6 print edition of the Tampa Bay Business Journal).

For the couple, the person to blame for everything they've been through is Donald Trump himself.

"Donald Trump misled a lot of people," Frederick said. "When he came in, the news people and the TV made us think, 'Oh my God, he is doing so much for Tampa.' We had a lot of trust in Donald Trump because Donald Trump ain't ever let nobody down," she said.

As the start of construction was delayed over and over again, details about Trump's arrangement with SimDag/RoBEL LLC came to light, especially as Trump himself was being blamed for many of the tower's problems. In early 2007, he confirmed what had only been rumor before. Trump was not a developer in the project, nor was he an investor. In fact, the developer, Tampa based SimDag was paying him millions of dollars to use his name, and he was still out more than $1 million of it.

"I don't care who he is, you don't do that to people," Frederick said. "His mouth is bigger than his wallet, and he's misleading a lot of people. What he's done is not very nice."

What's in a name?
Attempts to reach Trump for comment through his New York-based The Trump Organization went without response.

In May 2007, he sued SimDag for more than $1 million in unpaid licensing fees in federal court and demanded his name be removed from the project. SimDag, maintaining that Trump would keep his name on the project when he's paid, still counter sued claiming his revelation about being nothing more than a licensor on the project caused irreparable harm.

Frederick says she would've never bought into the project if Trump's true status had been revealed, and car dealership owner Kevin Brodsky stands with her on that.

Brodsky recently won a $2.1 million judgment against the Trump Tower Tampa developers for a pair of bridge loans he made to SimDag in March 2005 worth $1.6 million. Jody Simon, one of the original partners in the tower, pulled Brodsky on board through a mutual friend, former Tampa Bay Buccaneers halfback Mike Alstott, who also was a buyer in Trump Tower Tampa at the time.

"There's no way I would've done this if I knew what Trump's involvement really was," Brodsky said. "When I did the investment, I thought it was a no-brainer. It was Donald Trump, how could I go bad?"

Trump and SimDag are set to go to trial in their dispute next February if court ordered arbitration doesn't work out. Last month, both sides chose mediator Peter J. Grilli to help settle the dispute outside of court.


http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2008/06/02/daily43.html

Part of me wants to feel sympathy for these people, but if their life-savings was only $300,000 because they couldn't be bothered to learn how to invest, the article is right - they weren't typical investors.

They should absolutely get their deposit back, and they're lucky they got anything at all before bankruptcies and foreclosures shred the portion they could recover to pennies on the dollar. However, to claim that they had "no idea" that Trump was not personally building this project gets no sympathy from me. Even reading the newspaper articles makes it clear that Trump is franchising out his name to various developers - that he's not actually out risking his company's assets and credit on these ventures. Even if it weren't patently obvious from outside sources, I am certain that the contracts these people signed when they put money down had numerous disclaimers that the contract was "between SimDag LLC and depositors," that the Trump name was franchised, etc. etc.

(Almost) no investment is a sure thing. The Tampa market is full of big development plans that never amounted to anything. If these people had known anything about investing (and make no mistake - they were of the impression that this was an real estate investment "slamdunk"), they'd know that you have to accept some risk, particularly on condos that aren't built.

They put almost all of their eggs into one investment basket, and learned the hard way that that's a quick way to lose your shirt.

yawn...

I would love for the city to buy the land and have control over what gets developed there. I think there needs to be vertical development there, it just needs to be something that is much more about the riverwalk than the fortress-like Trump Tower was. That's a bad spot for a park imo, because of the deafening racket from the drawbridge. besides, there's virtually zero street action around there, and I don't think making that park that is already there bigger is going to change that.
I don't see that lot being developed until the market changes, I think for now the city should get it, turn it into a parking lot and charge. If anything is built now, it won't be easily changed. Like you said a park just might not work.

I think for now the city should get it, turn it into a parking lot and charge.

Seriously? A parking lot along the river???

Cover it in some paver stones and deposit a temporary piece of commercial art to later be employed in the Curtis Hixon and wait until the market can facilitate a structure on the property, if ever. I still have my doubts about the viability of that lot for a large structure.

Seriously? A parking lot along the river???


I think my car would appreciate the view.

I think for now the city should get it, turn it into a parking lot and charge.

Seriously? A parking lot along the river???
Yes a parking lot, unless you prefer a dirt lot? The whole point is a parking lot can be torn up very quickly and when the market can support it, a new structure could be built. Or we can build something that will likely be some small, bland development on that lot and let that be there for 30 years. If they charge atleast some revenue would be made than a fenced off dirt lot.

I think for now the city should get it, turn it into a parking lot and charge.

Seriously? A parking lot along the river???

It wouldn't be a first for the city - if you can find them, look at pictures of downtown in the 1960s. There was even a powerplant down there.

On the other hand, at least the land would serve some purpose. Right now that land is just sitting there, rotting. We could build a "temporary" park right there, but it's not as if downtown, and Ashley Dr. in particular, doesn't have its fair share of parks that no one uses.

A parking lot is easy to get some commercial benefit from and still resell or commit to a better use. If the city were to build a small structure there, it would be a waste of money and high value land.

There's no need for parking there (Wachovia's garage is literally across the street) and it wouldn't hold all that many cars. It's a terrible idea. It should (and most likely will) be resold.

Cover it in some paver stones and deposit a temporary piece of commercial art to later be employed in the Curtis Hixon and wait until the market can facilitate a structure on the property, if ever. I still have my doubts about the viability of that lot for a large structure.

You're forgetting bro, this lot is essentially at the mouth of the river. The water view is all but guaranteed to be unblocked in any appreciable way for decades, if ever.

This is also why if somehow there were identical west facing units in Skypoint and Element, the one in Skypoint would be inherently more valuable, because its view is assured (due to the park, river and UT to the west), while basically no view in Element is.

I think it's a good location for a hotel. Close to the CC and TGH, within a few blocks of the trolley, water views, etc.

I agree about the hotel. What's especially good about a hotel is the vitality a hotel brings to things like street level commercial and riverwalks. The effect is like residential on steroids.

I agree about the hotel. What's especially good about a hotel is the vitality a hotel brings to things like street level commercial and riverwalks. The effect is like residential on steroids.

A nice modern hotel with maybe a trendy restaurant/bar on the second level, with balconies, and some retail on the first floor... I could see that.

I'm encouraged by the fact that that condo midrise at Bayshore and Platt is finally getting some ground level tenants - the Republican Party of Florida has offices there, Starbucks is getting ready to open (first one within walking of downtown, really), and I think there's a real estate office there.

At the very least, the real estate boom created a foothold in downtown Tampa for young professional residences. Now that the towers are up in Channelside and over by the museum, someone is going to live in them permanently sooner or later. With permanent residents will come demand for restaurants, shopping, and the like.

Ok but in true honesty, what are the odds a large scale hotel will want to buy up that land in the current market? Thats why I'm saying a parking lot atleast for now would work, otherwise we have a nice dirt lot for a couple more years.

Ok but in true honesty, what are the odds a large scale hotel will want to buy up that land in the current market? Thats why I'm saying a parking lot atleast for now would work, otherwise we have a nice dirt lot for a couple more years.

To buy up the land? Higher than average, actually. Real estate prices have been falling, interest rates are lower - now's a decent time to buy land, if you have the cash or credit to afford it. Buy low, sell high. Buyers might hold off until the foreclosure and bankruptcy filings are out of the way. Make no mistake though - Colonial Bank isn't in the business of holding empty property. They'll sell it at an attractive price to make back some of their losses.

As for true honesty - I prefer questionable honesty. :nuts:

dont even think of some type of "temporary" parking lot anywhere on this land, Tampa would probably run with it, give the parking lot and adjacent parking lot museum naming rights to fund the parking lot sponsored riverwalk....it almost reminds me of this pinellas trail connection that is ripping up county owned rail corridor that runs through a lot of the southern county from Seminole to downtown burg, the trail even now uses the rail line warning system on roads for pedestrians..all 5 homeless guys. How stupid we still are after voting to not have rail in the 80s and instead allow a single person spawn and dictate a trail that can still be a great choice on both sides for rail. I feel bad for what happened to his son decades ago, pedestrians now rule the roads and the secondary trails would be more than enough for current numbers compared to what can happen in this county with a replaced light rail corridor reaching just about every spot in what is now the most dense county with 1 million residents and hundreds of thousands of tourists on slow days...after we bought the rail and decided to turn it into a trail instead of a metro heavy rail we had a pasco county sprawled population...sorry, another rant about this area! I am
thinking of the people mover that could have been a great asset to this downtown Tampa and provide a CBD to teco rail connection...

dont even think of some type of "temporary" parking lot anywhere on this land, Tampa would probably run with it, give the parking lot and adjacent parking lot museum naming rights to fund the parking lot sponsored riverwalk....it almost reminds me of this pinellas trail connection that is ripping up county owned rail corridor that runs through a lot of the southern county from Seminole to downtown burg, the trail even now uses the rail line warning system on roads for pedestrians..all 5 homeless guys. How stupid we still are after voting to not have rail in the 80s and instead allow a single person spawn and dictate a trail that can still be a great choice on both sides for rail. I feel bad for what happened to his son decades ago, pedestrians now rule the roads and the secondary trails would be more than enough for current numbers compared to what can happen in this county with a replaced light rail corridor reaching just about every spot in what is now the most dense county with 1 million residents and hundreds of thousands of tourists on slow days...after we bought the rail and decided to turn it into a trail instead of a metro heavy rail we had a pasco county sprawled population...sorry, another rant about this area!
Don't be sorry, we all have rants about how things are done in this metro. Hate it or love it, the Pinellas trail is a success and heavily suported by people in suburban areas. But from the history of this metro is the idiots who want to keep it small town like who prevented essential freeways from being built and have contributed to difficulty to build any mass transit. Honestly I see this lot turning into something not so great if we don't wait til the market is better.

Ok but in true honesty, what are the odds a large scale hotel will want to buy up that land in the current market? Thats why I'm saying a parking lot atleast for now would work, otherwise we have a nice dirt lot for a couple more years.

I'll take a nice dirt lot, thanks. There is already enough surface parking in Tampa and most in this forum know the eyesore it happens to be.

I'll take a nice dirt lot, thanks. There is already enough surface parking in Tampa and most in this forum know the eyesore it happens to be.
Yea a nice patch of dirt showing downtown's hault of progress really isn't an eyesore.:ohno:

Yea a nice patch of dirt showing downtown's hault of progress really isn't an eyesore.:ohno:

Oh, I'm sorry, lets pave it over and let transmission fluid, oil and other car related pollution run off into the river/Bay. Much better!

Shortsighted much?

Okay guys, lets not get over our heads.

I don't what would be better there. My favorite choise is a office building. The area can't really handle a bunch of traffic, so a hotel isn't smart. A dirt lot is not what everyone wants to see, and a parking lot would be stupid if the lot has so much more potential than a parking garage.

Atleast for a office building, you'll have traffic between 8 am- 5 pm and most of the business men and women will stay pretty close for Lunch. But there is probably some negative aspects of a ioffice building, i don't know.

Oh, I'm sorry, lets pave it over and let transmission fluid, oil and other car related pollution run off into the river/Bay. Much better!

Shortsighted much?
Hmm only way that would happen is if DT had a flood in which that would happen anyways.


Okay guys, lets not get over our heads.

I don't what would be better there. My favorite choise is a office building. The area can't really handle a bunch of traffic, so a hotel isn't smart. A dirt lot is not what everyone wants to see, and a parking lot would be stupid if the lot has so much more potential than a parking garage.

Atleast for a office building, you'll have traffic between 8 am- 5 pm and most of the business men and women will stay pretty close for Lunch. But there is probably some negative aspects of a ioffice building, i don't know.
I think an office building would be perfect, and I'd accept one if it was atleast 10 stories and looked decent. The fact is the market for a decent office building isn't there and if somebody does want to build an office building there are still plenty of cheaper lots that aren't on the river. Something better could be built there when the market allows, but for now we wait.

Hmm only way that would happen is if DT had a flood in which that would happen anyways.

^
Or something called rain.

How 'bout 1/2 emu farm and 1/2 petting zoo with a space needle in the center. I'm just sayin'... there's not enough wildlife downtown that one could look down on... :llama:

Hmm only way that would happen is if DT had a flood in which that would happen anyways.

^
Or something called rain.
Well if they had the river end higher then it would flow out into the street and join the rest of the crap going into the river. Then it wouldn't directly going into the river, yay! Look I wasn't talking environmental, I was talking economically, if you want environmental then plant some grass and a few trees and leave the lot like that.

The area can't really handle a bunch of traffic, so a hotel isn't smart.

Why can't the area handle the traffic of a hotel? It's really quick to get in and out of. There's not much NB traffic on Ashley right there at all. A trickle really. And you can just buzz down Tampa to Brorein to get there going SB.

I rode my bike down there today, really not bad traffic wise. The only time it would be bad is rush hour and a hotel isn't going to contribute to that like an office tower would.

Okay guys, lets not get over our heads.

I don't what would be better there. My favorite choise is a office building. The area can't really handle a bunch of traffic, so a hotel isn't smart.
A dt office building generates more traffic impact than a similarly sized hotel.

I think the Hard Rock Hotel and casino should close and move its operation to downtown. Oh wait..... the city already moved them once... great idea.

Trump Tower Tampa developer files for bankruptcy
Thursday, June 19, 2008

TAMPA (Bay News 9) -- More than three years after the plans for Trump Tower Tampa were unveiled, the developer behind the luxury condominium building has filed for bankruptcy.

According to Bay News 9's partner paper, The St. Petersburg Times, SimDag/Robel LLC filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in Tampa on Tuesday.

The developer faced many challenges, including a lawsuit from Donald Trump over unpaid licensing fees. However, what finally did SimDag in were the company's attempts to secure a loan just as the condo market was taking a downturn.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2008/6/19/358322.html?title=Trump+Tower+Tampa+developer+files+for+bankruptcy

Captain! The ship is sinking!

It was fun while it lasted. Bring in the next development please!

^^
yeah... :lol:

Yeah it's to bad this was never started, because we would be approaching a finished building about right now....

Yeah I'm also ready for something to go up at this location..

Trump Tower developer to face creditors
By James Thorner, Staff Writer
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 08:13 PM

They're out close to $40-million, and on Friday creditors for Trump Tower Tampa will get to confront the company that owes them all that money. Developer SimDag LLC declared bankruptcy on June 17 after failing to get financing for the 52-story downtown tower on the Hillsborough River. The $300-million project was to be built under license from New York's Donald Trump. The creditors meeting is scheduled for 1:30 p.m. at the federal courthouse in downtown Tampa. Among the largest outstanding debts are $2-million to Trump, $3.5-million to Colonial Bank, and $966,000 to contractor Case Atlantic. SimDag is in the process of refunding millions of dollars in deposits to 109 buyers. SimDag spent half the deposit money but is trying to release the other half held in escrow.

[Last modified: Jul 16, 2008 08:13 PM]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/article702964.ece

Oh, this is just too funny.....

Trump builders dug deep for loans
By James Thorner, Times Staff Writer

Published Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:37 PM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Desperate to salvage the $300-million Trump Tower Tampa with last-ditch financing, SimDag, the Tampa developer of the proposed deluxe skyscraper, sought a nine-figure loan from Providence Funding Inc.

Based in South Bend, Ind., Providence bills itself as a faith-based lender. Its chairman identifies himself as "the Very Reverend Father Barney."

With creditors baying for satisfaction last spring, SimDag principals Frank Dagostino and Jody Simon took the plunge. They paid Providence $150,000 as a "loan commitment fee" to secure $200-million in financing for the 52-story condo tower.

But Father Barney, the reassuring figure in the black clerical garb and white collar, is actually an ex-convict named Barney Canada. He spent three years in federal prison in the early 1990s for stealing millions of dollars procuring phony loans for businesses just like SimDag.

SimDag refers to Providence Funding in a recent bankruptcy filing. It mentions pursuing "breach of contract and possible civil theft claims" against Father Barney's organization.

The Providence Funding revelation comes as SimDag's creditors gather today in a Tampa courtroom to press for repayment of nearly $40-million. It highlights the dubious sources and extreme lengths to which SimDag, rebuffed by conventional lenders, went in search of a substantial loan for a project largely given up for dead.

Donald Trump, the famed New York developer who licensed his name to the tower in exchange for half the profits, sued SimDag for breach of contract more than a year ago, taking the wind out of the project.

"If this information about SimDag is true, this is a very sad turn of events," Trump spokeswoman Rhona Graff said on Thursday.

SimDag didn't respond to questions from the St. Petersburg Times, but it wasn't the first time the company failed to vet potential financiers.

In late 2006, turned down by commercial banks in the looming housing slump, the developer sought a loan from an Orlando venture capital fund called Mirabilis Ventures.

That, too, was an oddball partnership: Among other business dealings, Mirabilis founder Frank Amodeo appeared to be running mercenaries in Africa. That deal had a shelf life of only a couple of months before stories of Mirabilis' insolvency seeped out.

This year, the federal government accused Amodeo of embezzling millions from his company. During a recent court hearing, a psychiatrist testified that Amodeo was nearly psychotic and suffered from delusions of ruling the Earth.

Father Barney's Indiana attorney, Thomas "Chip" Lewis, vouched for Providence. Lewis said the company raises cash from a confidential list of private investors, but he couldn't cite a single multimillion-dollar development Providence has funded.

Lewis has represented Father Barney for six or seven years and suggested the clergyman turned over a new leaf after defrauding borrowers 20 years ago.

In 1991, Canada pleaded guilty in Massachusetts to numerous federal counts of conspiracy, mail fraud and wire fraud. The government said he ran an "advance fee scheme" in which commercial borrowers were falsely promised loans through shell corporations. Though financing never materialized, Canada kept the fees.

"This is a massive fraud perpetrated on a large number of individuals over a long period of time," a court document from the early 1990s read. "This is one of the largest, if not the largest, advance fee scheme which the Office of the United States Attorney has been involved in the last several years."

He served three years in prison and agreed to pay $1.8-million in restitution to his victims. Sometime after his release he was ordained a priest in the Orthodox-Catholic Church, a 19th century breakaway sect of the Roman Catholic Church that denies papal infallibility and allows married clergy.

Lewis said Providence lived up to its obligations with SimDag and spent at least part of the $150,000 on attorney fees, appraisals and underwriting.

"I wouldn't represent him if he was a crook," Lewis said of Canada.

Turning the tables, Lewis accused SimDag of bad faith. He said the Tampa developers withheld information about liens on the Trump Tower lot during the loan application.

Said Lewis: "These guys weren't exactly saints on the other end of the deal."

James Thorner can be reached at thorner@sptimes.com or (813) 226-3313.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/article704925.ece


Wah-ha-ha-ha :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

^^
I read that this morning. What a joke! A priest who was once a convict. Come on! :lol:

You know, the sad part of this is that many people will end up losing money on this... Sure, most will probably be able to afford the loss (given they were contracting for a $600k+ condo), but I am willing to bet that there will be a few where this loss will mean a lot more.

I bet most weren't fully aware that half of their 20% "escrow" deposits were being spent by SimDag, all while they were fighting to get their deposits back.

Trump Tower Tampa should serve as a important lesson for those who decide to purchase a preconstruction real estate offering in the future. Lots of risk, regardless of the perceived security of an "escrow deposit.” And these buyers shouldn’t count on the court system to help at all. The court system is just an absolute mess in my opinion.

^After 8 years of corrupt corporatists ruling the roost, just about everything in this country is an absolute mess.

SimDag is in the process of refunding millions of dollars in deposits to 109 buyers. SimDag spent half the deposit money but is trying to release the other half held in escrow.

whoah... ouch!

What a f***ing dick of a developer!. SimDag had buyers' money and instead of killing the project and refunding money when they had it to give back, they instead cling to the project for another 1.5 years when there is no hope due to market conditions, and now buyers are f***ed.

^^
I read that this morning. What a joke! A priest who was once a convict. Come on! :lol:

That's the beauty of religion. No oversight and no accountability whatsoever.

Did the mysterious "NY Hedge Fund" ever get outed? I sort of figured it didn't exist, could this be it?

Did the mysterious "NY Hedge Fund" ever get outed? I sort of figured it didn't exist, could this be it?

Trump has a lot of influence in New York. I wouldn't be surprised if the fund existed but once the fund found out it was truly SimDag behind the project and not Trump, then they backed out.

I wonder if Mr. Simdag is still driving around in that Rolls Royce...

Judge Clears Way For Trump Tower Refunds, Lawsuit
By SHANNON BEHNKEN | The Tampa Tribune
Published: July 18, 2008

TAMPA - Trump Tower Tampa buyers, with $3.6 million in deposits held in escrow, might get that money back. And the lawsuit involving Donald Trump and a local developer who failed to build the tower can move forward, a federal bankruptcy judge ruled today.

"That's great news," said Trump buyer Don Wallace, who has held meetings with other buyers to keep everyone up to date on developments. "I've already received my escrow money back, but I know some other people haven't."

The developments are just the latest turn of events in a case that is moving painfully slowly for buyers who plunked down 20 percent deposits on units originally sold at up to $6.5 million.

Half of buyers' deposits was put into escrow to be returned. Tampa developer SimDag/Robel LLC used the rest for site preparation.

Attorneys representing SimDag had requested the motion for the return of the escrow money.

Attorneys for Trump had requested their lawsuit proceed. It had been on hold since SimDag filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in June.

The 52-story waterfront Trump Tower Tampa was announced in early 2005, but the developer was not able to secure financing on the $300 million tower and vertical construction never started.

The project also got stuck in liens and lawsuits from buyers and contractors. Even real estate mogul Donald Trump, for whom the tower was named, sued, saying he sold SimDag the naming rights to the tower and is owed more than $1 million in fees.

Trump has said he wants his name off the tower plans.

SimDag's bankruptcy filing lists debts of $10 million to $50 million to an estimated 200 creditors.

Reporter Shannon Behnken can be reached at (813) 259-7804 or sbehnken@tampatrib.com.

http://southtampa2.tbo.com/content/2008/jul/18/judge-clears-way-trump-tower-refunds-lawsuit/?news

Donald Trump's licensing lawsuit can move forward
Tampa Bay Business Journal - by Michael Hinman

Donald Trump has won at least one small victory in his efforts to collect on $1 million still owed to him by the developers of Trump Tower Tampa.

U.S. Bankruptcy Judge K. Rodney May Monday allowed Trump to continue his breach of contract suit against all the developers of Trump Tower Tampa except for SimDag/RoBEL LLC, which is currently seeking Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection from its creditors. That means the suit can continue against Frank Dagostino, Howard Howell, Robert Lyons, Patrick Sheppard and Jody Simon - the original partners in SimDag/RoBEL.

On top of that, a mediation scheduled for Sept. 29 in front of mediator Peter J. Grilli will be allowed to continue with all parties, including SimDag/RoBEL to seek a resolution in Trump's lawsuit that was filed in May 2007.

In a filing made July 10, W. Keith Fendrick of Foley & Lardner LLP in Tampa, the firm representing Trump in his breach of contract suit, argued that forcing Trump to go through bankruptcy court on his claim would create more of a hardship on Trump than it would on SimDag/RoBEL.

Trump filed his original suit more than a year ago claiming that he was still owed a little more than $1 million as part of a licensing agreement that placed his name on Trump Tower Tampa, a proposed 52-story, $225 million luxury condominium project he was on-hand to announce in January 2005.

SimDag/RoBEL filed a countersuit against Trump claiming the New York real estate developer violated a confidentiality clause in his licensing agreement that made it clear Trump was not to reveal his actual participation in the project.

The trial for the breach of contract suit is scheduled for Feb. 2 contingent on the results of the court-ordered mediation.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2008/07/21/daily18.html?jst=b_ln_hl

Tripped by Trump?

Tampa Bay Business Journal
by Michael Hinman Staff Writer

TAMPA -- Blame for the Trump Tower Tampa failure has mainly been heaped at the feet of local developer SimDag/RoBEL LLC, a paper trail that can be easily seen in court as buyers and creditors jockey for position in an effort to get something back on their investments.

A few buyers have been outspoken in saying the real blame for the fabled condominium tower's failure lays in New York at the feet of "The Donald," Donald Trump himself.

Now another buyer has decided talk isn't enough. Frustration over the celebrity developer's role in the project has mounted, and she believes a judge should hear it.

Jean Shahnasarian sued Trump, his company The Trump Organization Inc., and Trump Tower Tampa for, among other charges, misleading buyers to believe that Trump was part of the development team of the 52-story tower and not simply a licensed name.

The case was filed at the end of May in the Hillsborough County Circuit Court, just weeks before SimDag/RoBEL sought Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The bankruptcy stayed SimDag/RoBEL's involvement in the lawsuit, but Christine A. Lamia of Bryant Miller Olive PA in Tallahassee, who is representing Shahnasarian in the case, said the suit is moving forward against Trump and his New York City-based company.

Shahnasarian wants her deposit returned and to be released from the sale.

A bad investment?

Shahnasarian and husband -- Dr. Michael Shahnasarian, founder of Career Consultants of America Inc. on Dale Mabry Highway -- paid a $278,000 deposit for a $1.39 million unit on the 27th floor of Trump Tower Tampa in late 2005 with an agreement that the tower would be completed by the end of 2008.

But by November 2007, developers made it clear they wouldn't be able to meet that construction deadline and asked buyers to sign extensions that provided for a number of incentives including accrued interest on deposits.

Shahnasarian, however, had already given up.

She decided to leave her contract and began to ask for a refund of her deposit as early as August 2007, the complaint reads.

She received a letter from Title Agency of Florida Inc. in Indian Shores explaining that $139,000 of her deposit remained in escrow as the other half was paid to SimDag for "construction and development purposes," according to the court filing. Purchase agreements called for 20 percent deposits with 10 percent going to escrow and the other being made available to the developers to help cover construction costs.

The lawsuit claims Shahnasarian has yet to receive a refund of her deposit and that she was defrauded out of that money since all aspects of the transaction -- especially Trump's actual involvement in the property -- were not disclosed.

Claims by Shahnasarian are untrue, said Trump's local lawyer Christopher L. Griffin of Foley & Lardner. "We fully reject and deny any allegation of misrepresentation, and we intend to continue to vigorously contest the lawsuit," Griffin said.

Lamia declined to comment and instead referred to court records. That case file includes a number of newspaper clippings as well as a press release dated Jan. 10, 2005, from the Trump Tower Tampa Web site with the headline "Donald J. Trump to partner with SimDag LLC in developing a new residential condominium tower in downtown Tampa."

The release credits Trump with announcing plans for the tower and states he will partner with SimDag to build it. The release quotes Tampa mayor Pam Iorio praising Trump's "investment in Tampa."

A number of false starts
Trump's actual involvement -- where he would receive more than $2 million and a cut of the unit sales for the use of his name -- was revealed shortly before he filed suit against SimDag and the original development partners in district court in May 2007.

In that action, still pending, he is demanding the balance of $1 million owed for the licensing fee and to have his name removed from the project. SimDag countersued claiming Trump breached the contract when he publicly revealed his involvement in the project, a licensing deal that was supposed to remain secret.

Frank Dagostino, SimDag's CEO, didn't return a call seeking comment.

Refresher
Trump Tower Tampa was never able to fully get off the ground.

Despite claims from Donald Trump himself at a groundbreaking ceremony that construction was to begin in "weeks," SimDag was never able to get beyond the foundation stage at the challenged site. Soil problems halted construction in 2006, and it never restarted.

During that time, Frank Dagostino repeatedly assured buyers and the media that financing for the $225 million tower was close. It never materialized. By early 2007, construction liens were piling up against the property and public confidence waned.

SimDag/RoBEL filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in June after one buyer, suing for a return on his deposit, was able to force a date to be set for a sheriff's auction of the land. The bankruptcy filing spiked the auction, and the land remains in the control of SimDag/RoBEL as it goes through reorganization.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2008/07/28/story1.html?b=1217217600^1673697&page=2

Bankrupt Trump Tower's builders prepare for showdown
By Times Staff Writer
Posted: Sep 08, 2008 08:16 PM

Though tens of millions of dollars in debt, developers of bankrupt Trump Tower Tampa want to delay filing a reorganization plan until they can duke it out with their project's namesake, New York real estate mogul Donald Trump.

Mediation between SimDag LLC and Trump representatives is scheduled for Sept. 29 in Tampa.

Trump sued his partners in May 2007, seeking more than $1-million in delinquent licensing fees for the 52-story luxury condo tower that was never built. Though SimDag filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization in June, a judge let Trump's lawsuit proceed.

SimDag won't submit a reorganization plan until Nov. 10, long enough to know whether mediation adds to or subtracts from the company's debts.

[Last modified: Sep 09, 2008 04:06 PM]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/article802199.ece

All together now....:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

Just die already.

Donald Trump says SimDag can’t enforce tower licensing agreement
Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 2:35 PM EDT
Tampa Bay Business Journal - by Michael Hinman Staff Writer

Frank Dagostino and his company SimDag/RoBEL don’t have the ability to enforce their licensing agreement with Donald Trump, so any claims of a contract breach on the New York real estate mogul’s part won’t hold up.

At least that’s what Trump claims in court documents filed with the U.S. District Court’s Middle District of Florida Wednesday as he continues to try and recover unpaid licensing fees connected to the failed Trump Tower Tampa project.

After Trump sued SimDag for more than $1 million in licensing fees in May 2007, Dagostino filed a counterclaim saying Trump’s revealing of the existence of the licensing agreement — something that had never been publicly confirmed before that — caused irreparable harm to the project, and sought his own damages because of it. Trump, however, through his attorneys Christopher L. Griffin and Lauren L. Valiente of Foley & Lardner LLP of Tampa, says that not only is Dagostino incapable of fulfilling the original agreement first signed in October 2004 but his own guaranty already waived his rights to file such a counterclaim.

The original licensing deal would result in a $2 million payday for Trump, but the agreement was modified in 2006 that doubled that fee to $4 million in exchange for concessions in the amount of money Trump would receive from condo sales. As part of the new agreement, Trump would receive a 50 percent cut of overall net profits, instead of various percentages of gross revenue averaging around $300 a square foot.

U.S. Bankruptcy Judge K. Rodney May ordered in July that Trump’s breach of contract suit could continue despite SimDag’s Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection filing. At the same time, a scheduled mediation with Peter J. Grilli on Sept. 29 would also move forward.

The 52-story, $225 million luxury condominium project was supposed to be built on Ashley Drive in downtown Tampa on the banks of the Hillsborough River.

The trial for Trump’s breach of contract suit is scheduled for Feb. 2.

In the meantime, Dagostino has changed attorneys in the lawsuit. Charles M. Harris Jr. and Heidi L. Hobbs of Trenam Kemker Scharf Barkin Frye O’Neill & Mullis in St. Petersburg will represent him in the case against Trump, replacing Allen Levine and Lisa M. Castellano of Becker & Poliakoff of Clearwater.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2008/09/08/daily52.html?surround=lfn&brthrs=1

This thing is gonna drag on for yet another bunch of months... :bash:

U.S. Bankruptcy Judge K. Rodney May denied a request by SimDag/RoBEL LLC to use a portion of nearly $15,000 in interest earned on buyer deposits to help maintain the former Trump Tower Tampa site after the company received a violation letter from Tampa city officials.

SimDag received the violation letter last June, and in August the developer was ordered to a municipal code enforcement hearing scheduled for Oct. 15, according to court documents. The city’s code enforcement department said the Trump site was in a state of disrepair including overgrowth of vegetation, accumulation of debris and a damaged fence. On Sept. 25 several workers with hand tools were seen tackling the heaps of overgrown vegetation.

The code enforcement board could levy fines of up to $5,000 per day for continued violations, although many fines are reduced if code issues are cleared up by a certain time.

SimDag had made up to $700,000 in interest from buyer deposits of $19 million, court documents say. SimDag had hoped to use the remaining deposit money toward cleaning up the site.

Some buyers, however, scrambled to oppose SimDag’s motion. Allena Burge of Burge Holdings filed a response Sept. 16 claiming that the interest on the escrow payments is the property of those who made deposits and should not be used for site maintenance. Jay D.R. Magner, who says he is still owed $240,000 from SimDag, also asked the judge to deny the request.

A second buyer, Jean Shahnasarian, questioned the amount of money left in the escrow interest account, however, saying that the interest earned on her cash deposit of $139,000 alone would’ve generated more than $20,000.

“There appears to be a significant amount of interest, which is now apparently missing, and the debtor has not disclosed its whereabouts and the escrow agent has not reported what may have happened to the funds if deposited into the account,” Shahnasarian’s attorney, Larry Foyale of Kass Shuler Solomon Spector Foyle & Singer, said in a court filing.

In his order, May said the interest funds will remain with the Title Agency of Florida Inc. until he decides what to do with it.

SimDag/RoBEL, which planned to build a 52-story condominium complex on Ashley Drive in downtown Tampa, sought Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection June 17.

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2008/09/22/daily66.html?ana=from_rss

Tampabay.com

September 30, 2008

Trump dumps Tampa tower

New York tycoon Donald Trump formally cut his ties to Trump Tower Tampa by agreeing to a mediation deal Monday with former Tampa business partner SimDag-Robel LLC.

Neither side got everything it wanted. Trump sued in May 2007 to recover more than $2-million in licensing fees SimDag was supposed to pay for the right to use Trump's name on the 52-story condo project.

SimDag launched a counter suit accusing Trump of breaching a long-standing confidentiality agreement by going public with his complaints against SimDag.

The tower was planned in 2005 as the biggest skyscraper in west-central Florida, but couldn't get a $200-million loan in the Florida condo glut. SimDag filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in June.

“It’s really off the drawing boards right now. That’s the economic reality of what’s happened,’’ SimDag's bankruptcy lawyer Jeffery Warren said of the tower.

“If SimDag wants to use the Trump brand again they'll need a new agreement,’’ Warren added.

Though the Tower deal is dead, SimDag is resisting an immediate sale of its 1.5-acre Tampa riverfront lot at 111 S. Ashley Drive. It prefers waiting until the real estate market improves to get a better price.

The mediation settlement, hammered out Monday by Trump's New York attorney Bernard Diamond, still needs ratification by SimDag's bankruptcy judge.

Posted by James Thorner at 11:28:56 AM on September 30, 2008

http://blogs.tampabay.com/realestate/2008/09/trump-dumps-tam.html

You know what this means right???

It means it's time to change the thread title to "TAMPA | SimDag-Robel LLC Tower | 52 Excuses | 190 Units | Never gonna happen"

So much for Trump vowing to get this built no matter what.

Only 52 excuses? Maybe 152, but not just 52.

"52 extensions | 190 excuses" then...

Should we put up a memorial for this?.........Nah!

Hey its still in the City's riverwalk animation so is it really dead yet?

Hey its still in the City's riverwalk animation so is it really dead yet?
I could find some fat lady to sing, but I'll take my chances and say this is dead.

dead.

And now this...

Ex-con sued by Trump Tower Tampa developers
By James Thorner, Times Staff Writer
In print: Saturday, November 8, 2008

Claiming they were duped out of $150,000, developers of Trump Tower Tampa have sued an ex-convict from Indiana who failed to deliver a $200-million loan.

SimDag LLC is pursuing civil theft charges against a self-proclaimed clergyman who goes by the name of the Very Rev. Father Barney Canada. Canada spent three years in federal prison for ripping off businesses in the late 1980s and early 1990s. He ran an "advance fee scheme" in which he collected millions of dollars in fees but failed to deliver loans.

SimDag attorney Jeffrey Warren said Canada, by withholding information about his criminal past during negotiations earlier this year, lured his clients into a contract he didn't intend to uphold.

SimDag struggled for two years to get financing for its 52-story luxury condo high-rise. Developers licensed the name from New York real estate mogul Donald Trump. Canada, head of a company called Providence Funding, appeared last spring as the project's financial savior.

"The fee was paid, and the loan was supposed to close simultaneously," Warren said. "The fees got paid and then nothing. My clients didn't know they were bamboozled until it was too late."

Canada's Indiana attorney, Thomas "Chip" Lewis, didn't return a call from the St. Petersburg Times.

Since the summer, when the Times broke the story of Canada's activities, several businesses have contacted the newspaper to say that they, too, paid Canada for loans that never materialized.

With the implosion of the real estate market, SimDag filed for bankruptcy in June. The lawsuit against Canada falls within the confines of the bankruptcy court.



[Last modified: Nov 07, 2008 10:31 PM]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/article895179.ece

I thought we staked this one already....

http://www.cs.utk.edu/~ghenry/vamp_pics/ouch.jpg

:lol:

Not until that fat lady sings....

This is unrelated, but what is the new red thing they are putting up in the park on Ashley? It looks like three red beams...

it looks like some sort of art. my office looks down on it and i have a pic but for some reason i cannot post pics on here.

Yes, it is "art", but what the heck... I hope tax payers didn't pay much for it. I could've come up with that design without even trying.

With regards to Simdag LLC, there is a small artical in either the Trib or Times today saying they are presenting their bankruptcy reorganization plan this week. It will be interesting as to what their "plan" is.

I hope something gets built on that site eventually. It's a decent site and would be another great area on the future Riverwalk.

The site would be good for an office tower... Or the city can give the seminoles their land back downtown and they can build a new hard rock hotel and casino there

The site would be good for an office tower... Or the city can give the seminoles their land back downtown and they can build a new hard rock hotel and casino there

I believe that the Calusa Native Americans were who was there originally as they and De Soto signed a treaty under an oak tree in Plant Park.
As well as the fact that Tampa in Calusa means Lightning, or "sticks of fire"

humm. well anyway.. I def think the spot would be great for office, or hotel... would be nice to see a hotel with a lot of convention space to compliment the convention center.

humm. well anyway.. I def think the spot would be great for office, or hotel... would be nice to see a hotel with a lot of convention space to compliment the convention center.

I agree. That would be a better option, since our convention center is still puny against Orange County, Jax, & Miami.

FYI - The Calusa did not live in the Tampa Bay area; they were further south. The Tampa Bay area was populated by the Tobobago which was more closely associated with the Timucua.

FYI - The Calusa did not live in the Tampa Bay area; they were further south. The Tampa Bay area was populated by the Tobobago which was more closely associated with the Timucua.

The thing about the Calusa's and De Soto is straight out of a history tour of Plant Park from the University of Tampa as well as it being documented in the book "Ybor City: The Making of a Landmark Town"

I don't doubt that those sources say that. That does not mean that they are correct. I have seen lots of inaccurate references in books. De Soto encountered the Calusa because he actually landed in the Port Charlotte area (not southern Tampa Bay). This does not mean that Bradenton needs to give up it's festival, but more recent scholarship has come to that conclusion. Nevertheless the Calusa did not live in our area. The meaning and origin of the word "Tampa" is still very much in debate. There are various theories as to what it actually means. I kind of like the "sticks of fire" theory just because it sounds cool.

Well, I do not know about that...we do have Calusa Trace so that proves that they were here!:nuts: Regardless of the fact, our native heritage should be celebrated more than it is. It is interesting how many people in the Tampa Bay area have never seen or heard of the mounds that dot the area. They really are rather impressive to see and imagine the cultures that used to live around them.


Steve

I'm a native american myself, and I've seen a few of the burial grounds. They are really neat

Trump condo buyers sue over deposit funds
By Times Staff Writer
Posted: Dec 08, 2008 06:52 PM

Trump Tower Tampa is mired in bankruptcy court, but that's not stopping 109 condo buyers from suing over $11.9-million they claim was partly misspent trying to raise the skyscraper at Ashley Drive and Brorein Street. The complaint is based on the 20 percent deposits demanded of buyers by developer SimDag LLC. Developers have returned about half the money but said they spent the other half on construction as the law allows. In a class-action lawsuit filed Friday, lead plaintiffs Wes and Diane McLeod said developers spent some of the money improperly on salaries, commissions, advertising and other expenses. The suit names SimDag principals Frank Dagostino, Robert Lyons and Patrick Sheppard, as well as escrow agent MacFarlane Ferguson & McMullen. Trump Tower never got a loan to start vertical construction, and filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in June.

[Last modified: Dec 08, 2008 06:52 PM]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/article930750.ece

:wallbash:

lol... The silliness just won't end!

The neverending soap opera continues....there's always a surprise at every turn.... :bash:

It is like a car with severed brake lines that is careening into the Hillsborough.

Trump Tower buyers seek action for refund
Friday, December 19, 2008
Tampa Bay Business Journal - by Michael Hinman Staff Writer

TAMPA — A couple who placed a deposit on a unit at Trump Tower Tampa is suing the developers of that failed project in a potential class action claiming escrow money from deposits was improperly spent.

Wes McLeod and Diane McLeod filed a complaint in Hillsborough County circuit court

Dec. 5 against developers Frank Dagostino, Robert E. Lyons and Patrick Sheppard as well as the law firm that once managed the escrow, Macfarlane Ferguson & McMullen PA.

“From what we know right now, the damages are the amount of deposits that haven’t been returned to the buyers,” said Rachel Green, an attorney with Forizs & Dogali in Tampa who is representing the McLeods. “Generally, most of the purchasers got some form of their deposit back, so what we’re looking at right now are the portions not returned.”

‘We did nothing inappropriate’

In the complaint, the McLeods said 109 buyers deposited nearly $19 million with SimDag/RoBEL LLC, Trump Tower’s development company, representing up to 20 percent of a unit’s purchase price. Buyers typically placed 10 percent deposits in cash and used a bank letter to secure the other 10 percent. But some simply paid the additional 10 percent in cash, which the developers were allowed to use for construction purposes, according to the suit.

SimDag/RoBEL “improperly diverted” $2.3 million from the account, the suit says, and now there isn’t enough money to refund the 10 percent deposits to buyers.

“We have documented every penny spent on the property, and we did nothing inappropriate — not one thing,” Dagostino told the Tampa Bay Business Journal. “There’s just no merit to it. If you look through this lawsuit, it’s all ridiculous.”

Bill Taylor, a managing partner with Macfarlane Ferguson & McMullen, said his firm “acted in full compliance with the duties and obligations that it had pursuant to the escrow agreement.

“The firm specifically denies it violated any obligations under the escrow agreement,” Taylor said in a prepared statement.

A bankruptcy judge who is hearing a Chapter 11 asset protection case from SimDag/RoBEL filed last summer could freeze the suit, Dagostino said.

SimDag/RoBEL is not named in the suit, thus shielding it from the bankruptcy court, plaintiff’s attorney Green said.

But there is no reason the lawsuit shouldn’t be part of the bankruptcy case, especially since it involves money already under the jurisdiction of the bankruptcy court, Dagostino said.

“We’re trying to fight for the value of that property and give everyone the maximum amount of money back,” Dagostino said. “They’re trying to make this a separate issue, and it’s not.”

Charges to the offense
The suit accuses Dagostino, Lyons and Sheppard of violating the state’s Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act and fraud. It adds Macfarlane Ferguson on charges of inappropriate conversion and accounting as well as breaches of contract and fiduciary duty.

Jeffrey Gibson, an attorney with that firm who represents Sheppard, did not return calls seeking comment.

Lyons, through attorney Wanda Hagan Golson of Stichter Reidel Blain & Prosser, said he would “vigorously defend” himself in the suit.

“There is no basis for the allegations in that complaint,” Golson said.

SimDag/RoBEL settled a licensing dispute with New York real estate celebrity Donald Trump in September through a Tampa mediator over more than $1 million Trump claimed he was owed for the use of his name on the project. The company filed for bankruptcy protection in June after it failed to build its planned $225 million, 52-story luxury tower in downtown Tampa.

The case is seeking class action status, but while Green said she has heard from other buyers involved in the Trump Tower project, she is not actively seeking to recruit more plaintiffs to join the lawsuit just yet.

mhinman@bizjournals.com | 813.342.2477

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2008/12/22/story2.html?b=1229922000^1750087

:ohno:

This tower was never going to be built. SimDag bit off way more than they could chew. They were inexperienced developers who were building low to midrise beachfront condos during the good times. All they had was access to alot capital and not enough access to exprerienced developers. (They were in the medical business before SimDag). They got excited too early in the game when they announced it when they did.
And Speaking of the announcement, I hope there are transcripts of some sort available of the press conferences when Trump was here. I was at the announcement ceremony at the site and explicitly remember trump mentioning that he had a personal stake in the project and that it is not merely a licensing deal. Not sure if that will have any legal merit in court if the contract states otherwise.

Just another case of inexpereinced so called "developers" that come into the game and ruin the market and lives of investors and real developers alike.

Judge allows bank to foreclose on Trump Tower Tampa
Thursday, January 22, 2009

TAMPA (Bay News 9) -- The plans to bring Trump Tower Tampa to the Bay area have hit yet another obstacle.

According to Bay News 9's partner paper, the St. Petersburg Times, a judge has ruled that Colonial Bank can move forward with its foreclosure on the property.

SimDag LLC, the tower's developer, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in June, which would have protected the company from foreclosure. However, the latest ruling from the judge will allow the bank to move forward.

If built, Trump Tower Tampa was to be the area's tallest skyscraper. However, plans fell through when SimDag could not secure a $200-million construction loan.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/1/22/428812.html?title=Judge+allows+bank+to+foreclose+on+Trump+Tower+Tampa

...If built, Trump Tower Tampa was to be the area's tallest skyscraper. However, plans fell through when SimDag could not secure a $200-million construction loan.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/1/22/428812.html?title=Judge+allows+bank+to+foreclose+on+Trump+Tower+Tampa

If built?...
:ohno:

^In context, "If built" was intended to be past tense, not futurue tense. Maybe to be more clear they should've said "If it had been built" instead.

Something new will be built there.......when pigs fly of course.

If I had to pick something, my guess is that it's turned into a another small and essentially useless park.

(edit: I'm being sarcastic)

Agreed, that's my guess too. AND it will be done with, what else....TAXPAYER MONEY! Whoopee!

I think too much money has been invested in the land already, the developer or bank will do everything they can to seel to another developer.

I think that property is too valuable for it to turn int a pointless park.

If I had to pick something, my guess is that it's turned into a another small and essentially useless park.

It wouldn't necessarily be uselessly small if they tore down the Captrust building (didn't SimDag own that too?) and made one long park from McDill Park south to the crosstown.

That said, that area of downtown is dead, it needs some street retail or something.

It wouldn't necessarily be uselessly small if they tore down the Captrust building (didn't SimDag own that too?) and made one long park from McDill Park south to the crosstown.

That said, that area of downtown is dead, it needs some street retail or something.
I do believe that SimDag does own Captrust, but don't know if its included with any of the crap that is going on with them at the moment or if they even have any plans at selling it at the moment.

The land has potential to have something big on it. Whatever rises on it, the city should tell that they must put retail along the Riverwalk if they want their propsosal to be approved. And possibly, not saying they need to, maybe they should ask who ever plans on building there to put forward some $$$ towards MacDill Park for improvements. Be nice if all future developers had some involvement in making the city better while building their art.

MacDill Park is pretty well developed if you ask me. Not sure what else could be done on such a small parcel.

To begin with, I don't think that SimDag owns CapTrust. I think they just lease space there now... Furthermore, I doubt that the CapTrust building would be torn down to make way for a larger MacDill Park. The combined land and building would be at least $10-12mil even in this horrible market... And from my perspective, I would much rather see the CapTrust building come down, and then see a nice sized hotel/condo/retail project built on the aggregated site, which would be a bit over 2 acres.

Businessman demands $735,000 refund from developers of Trump Tower Tampa
Times Staff
Posted: Apr 20, 2009 05:19 PM

A Pinellas County businessman accused of bilking customers out of millions of dollars in a telemarketing scheme is demanding a $735,000 refund from the developers of Trump Tower Tampa. Bryon Wolf, co-owner of Suntasia Marketing, has sued developer SimDag-Robel LLC for money he invested in the 52-story downtown Tampa project in 2005. Trump Tower is in Chapter 11 bankruptcy, but Wolfe needs the money. Wolf's company sold discount and travel club memberships that tapped people's bank accounts. In what the Federal Trade Commission called "deceptive negative option telemarketing," Suntasia made customers formally opt out of offers or else they drew from accounts without permission. Wolf and his partners personally owe more than $10 million in restitution.

What the hell is going on? It's like I'm watching a soap opera

Good lord, the soap opera still hasn't ended. I think this whole thing needs to go to civil court PRONTO!

Businessman demands $735,000 refund from trump Tower Tampa

A Pinellas County businessman accused of bilking customers out of millions of dollars in a telemarketing scheme is demanding a $735,000 refund from the developers of Trump Tower Tampa.

What comes around...

If I'm not mistaken, wouldn't TTT have topped out this summer if it would have gone vertical as scheduled? :dunno:

^^
Most likely. What a shame right?

:bash:

Actually, I wasn't really into the design. Certainly I appreciated it due to the height and the fact that it was another project during a time that Tampa was seeing a boom in skyscrapers, but the design could and should had been better.

^While the style was not my cup of tea for downtown, I think the building was going to have more architectual detail then the renderings showed, and in the the end, was going to look good or at least better then expected.

I know Mr. Wolf - he's a scam artist pure and simple. Karma...

Be careful what you wish for..........

Frank L. Amodeo sentenced to 22 years behind bars

Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 5:48pm EDT | Modified: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 8:20am

Tampa Bay Business Journal - by Michael Hinman Staff writer

http://triangle.bizjournals.com/triangle/othercities/tampabay/stories/2009/05/25/daily10.html

Frank L. Amodeo could be 70 by the time he steps outside a prison.

U.S. District Judge John Antoon II Tuesday sentenced Amodeo, the former leader of Mirabilis Ventures Inc., to 22 years and six months in federal prison for conspiring to commit wire fraud, obstructing an agency proceeding, impeding the Internal Revenue Service and failing to remit payroll taxes.

Amodeo also will lose more than $1 million seized from various accounts as well as three homes, luxury vehicles, commercial real estate, a Learjet and his corporations. Antoon also ordered Amodeo to pay $181 million, the amount prosecutors with the U.S. Attorney’s Office say he owes in payroll tax funds.

Amodeo pleaded guilty to the charges last September. A one-time player in the failed Trump Tower Tampa project, he reportedly purchased the assets of the 52-story tower along with a second related project in Clearwater. Frank Dagostino, head of the then Trump Tower Tampa developer SimDag-RoBEL, told the Tampa Bay Business Journal in October 2007 that while there was a handshake deal for Mirabilis to purchase the project, it was a deal that was never consummated.

Amodeo originally faced up to 370 years in prison and fines of more than $6.75 million after he and other unnamed executives failed to pay the IRS $181.1 million, including $129.7 million in FICA and withholding taxes. It started with $7.1 million in the fourth quarter of 2004 with two businesses he controlled — Sunshine Cos. III and Sunshine Staff Leasing. It then continued over the next two years with Professional Benefit Solutions for the remaining $174 million.

Investigators at the time of his original indictment in August 2008 said Amodeo included a number of companies in the activity acting as professional employee organizations, which would lease employees to other companies. Other companies believed to be involved in the scheme, according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office, were AEM Inc., AQMI Strategy Corp., Common Paymaster Corp., Nexia Strategy Corp., Presidion Corp., Presidion Solutions, Quantum Delta Enterprises, Wellington Capital Group and various others.

Last October, indictments were handed down against many of the companies associated with the scheme. They are charged with conspiracy and wire fraud, and could face fines of up to $400 million.

lololol... It was such a classy project, attracting the finest developers around!


:lol:

What still gives me fits of giggles is remembering that someone in this thread had argued Mirabilis being part of the project made it a lock. Economic downturn aside, when people like this end up as key cogs in helping re-start stalled projects... Well, it doesn't solidify their chances of being built

Bank forecloses on Trump Tower site

Published: July 17, 2009

TAMPA - Ever wonder what happened to the site of the failed 52-story Trump Tower Tampa?

The bank took it back in foreclosure Wednesday.

Colonial Bank attempted to sell the waterfront downtown Tampa site at a foreclosure auction at the courthouse but ended up buying the land back.

The foreclosure marked the end of dreams for many who expected the building to become Tampa's tallest. It also brought to a close another chapter for investors and buyers who sank money in a project that fell apart.

Tampa's SimDag/Robel LLC announced the project in early 2005, but the economy tanked and the developer wasn't able to get financing for the $300 million tower.

The developer prepped the land for construction but ran into unstable soil. Some buyers backed out, and progress was held up by liens and lawsuits from buyers and contractors.

Vertical construction never started, and that led the man for whom the tower is named, real estate mogul Donald Trump, to sue. He said he sold SimDag the right to use his name and was owed more than $1 million in fees. He also said the developer didn't begin the project on time.

SimDag filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy and reached a mediated agreement with Trump.

So what will become of the site on Ashley Drive along the Hillsborough River?

Patrick Berman of the commercial real estate firm Cushman & Wakefield said that even though he considers the property "A-plus" land, the lender's options are limited.

"They can either sell it for a big discount or hold on to it long term," Berman said. "The only thing financeable right now is multifamily apartments or hotel."

A hotel developer might be interested, but an apartment complex would be risky in these economic conditions, Berman said.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/jul/17/sp-bank-forecloses-on-trump-tower-site/news-money/

I would be fine with a hotel there. With TWELVE either dead or on-hold, there is going to be something to take its place. Indigo isn't going to be large enough to equal the same about of rooms that TWELVE would had offered. I would say try to get W Hotel there. They already had plans for a hotel just a couple blocks away from the site, so giving them this space would give them two benefits. One being the River and Riverwalk, guests would be happy to have a room next to the river. And two being that they can open retail and restaurants along the Riverwalk and have more pedestrian traffic then they would had in their proposed location. Although they will be stuck with the burden in getting rid of that building on the site.

I agree, a hotel would be terrific on that site since it's right next door to the convention center.

I agree that a hotel would be perfect for that spot, and I think a hotel such as the W would be a great choice. With the River Walk traversing right by it, convention attenders could walk along the River Walk to access the convention center. Maybe Tampa's new tallest could still reside here, but as a hotel.

The site is pretty small though for a convention style hotel... If the Cap Trust building was demolished, that could work better, but it still wouldn't be great... I would expect more of a business hotel or more likely some mix of hotel/condo/office (office space DT is getting old, so irrespective of the vacancy rate, new supply would get leased. Especially on the river and riverwalk. The problem is the pricing isn't there in this economy).

Imo, the next 'convention' hotel we see will be on the large lot just north of the Marriott, wedged in between the arena and TCC.

W's rock. I love the DJ in the lobby on Friday and Saturday nights at the one here in Dunwoody.

^We had a huge W Hotel proposal for the area just north of the Embassy. I don't think it ever made much progress. Last we heard, at least a year or two back they were waiting for a law firm which was the current tenant in the buildings the hotel was replacing to move to their new Tampa Heights office which at the time was U/C. I think the project was being developed by the same people who run Club Fuel in Ybor City.

http://jongales.com/pics/development/fuel-downtown-w.png

And here was the article:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/archive/index.php/t-502762.html

A shame it never got off the ground, it looked really nice. Then again when it's being developed by the people that run Club Fuel, not sure it ever had a chance....

Wouldn't be the first hotel proposal failed in the Tampa Bay area. Remember that they also were behind the hotel in St. Petersburg that was rejected by the neighbors, sent back, came back shorter but more of a bulge, and since then hasn't been heard since. I also believe they had plans for a student housing project in Tampa a while back, like 2 years back.

EDIT: Actually, there is more. We can't forget that they are also in charge of The Westin proposal on Clearwater Beach. Maybe the developer should try another area of interest, since building hotels doesn't seem to be working for him.

Isn't there a W in Orlando now?

"I think the project was being developed by the same people who run Club Fuel in Ybor City." These clowns remind me of the Seinfeld skit about rental car companies taking reservations, but not keeping the reservations. It seems the Fuel group likes to propose things and but then not actually follow through.

I sent Fuel Group an email about the W project and I was surprised to even get a response:

It is Still Alive – Public/private partnership with the City is what’s proposed for the Site , All is Well with the Property.

I sent Fuel Group an email about the W project and I was surprised to even get a response:
The thing is, they could be telling the truth or just playing you. I got a quick response from SimDag when I emailed them and they said everything was fine and construction would resume asap. Now look where they are now.

Although, like I said before, with TWELVE out of the picture at this moment, W Hotel would be a good alternative. We do have to remember though that Floridan Hotel should be opening in less then 6 months, so W Hotel may or not be needed.

Not to mention that hotels are in the toilet right now. Occupancy rates have plunged and the worst part of that is business travel. Don't expect a new downtown hotel anytime soon. TWELVE wasn't going to have many hotel rooms anyway--less than a quarter the size of the Mariott Waterside.

^^ exception being the Floridan. While Markopolous goign slow on getting things just right in the restoration didn't exactly wow us on the forum, taking it slow lets him open when the market (potentially) warms up.

Well that project started before the hotel industry took a dive. And it's not a strictly business move--he's restoring it because it's a labor of love.

Im kind of glad this project didn't work out, I thought the building was kind of ugly. Even though it was gonna be a new tallest for Tampa. I can wait, we will get a new tallest by 2050

^Hopefully before 2050.

^Hopefully before 2050.

Yeah because I'll be 70 then. :bash:

I'll be 60..... :(

Trump Tower Tampa buyers to argue Donald Trump misrepresented his role

By James Thorner, Times Staff Writer

Published Monday, November 2, 2009

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/trump-tower-tampa-buyers-to-argue-donald-trump-misrepresented-his-role/1048842

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A group of at least 20 disgruntled former Trump Tower Tampa buyers plans to sue Donald Trump, accusing the New York tycoon of falsifying his role in the $300-million project that went bankrupt last year.

Trump misrepresented himself as a tower investor when he was only lending his name to the project in a licensing deal with Tampa Bay developer SimDag Robel LLC, said Kenneth Turkel, a Tampa attorney hired by some of the condo buyers.

Scores of buyers plunked down 20 percent deposits on units that ranged in price from $700,000 to $6 million. Developers didn't refund half the deposit money, and buyers aim to recoup losses from Trump though the courts.

"Buyers were never told about the confidential licensing agreement," Turkel said. "Would people have bought into the project if the name was SimDag Tower Tampa?"

Announced by Trump in February 2005 during a whirlwind stopover in Tampa, the skyscraper was supposed to be West Florida's highest and its 193 units the most luxurious in the region.

But as the real estate market tanked, developers could never find suitable financing. SimDag filed for bankruptcy in June 2008. A year later, Colonial Bank seized the 1.5-acre riverfront lot at 100 S. Ashley Drive.

Buyers in similar Trump licensing deals have filed lawsuits elsewhere. Seventy people who bought into Trump Ocean Resort, a never-built waterfront development in Baja California, have also dragged Trump to court. Plaintiffs allege the real estate mogul deceived them into laying down deposits on a project he was only lending his name to.

The same argument is behind an anti-Trump lawsuit involving the Trump International Hotel & Towers on Fort Lauderdale Beach.

During the Tampa unveiling in 2005, Trump told the St. Petersburg Times that he had a "substantial stake" in the condo tower.

"I recently said I'd like to increase my stake but when they're selling that well, they don't let you do that," Trump told the newspaper.

But according to the licensing agreement with SimDag, Trump was to receive an initial $2 million licensing fee and then collect a percentage of the profits after the units sold.

Buyers included former Tampa Bay Buccaneers defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin.

"This was a diverse group of successful people," Turkel said of his clients. "We're talking athletes, professionals and retirees."

The Trump Organization declined to comment on Turkel's accusations until the suit is formally filed.

In the Baja California and Fort Lauderdale suits, Trump insisted he had been upfront about licensing his name to the projects.

James Thorner can be reached at jthorner@sptimes.com or (813) 226-3313.

^^
Oh joy, how this thing drags on and on :bash:

Trump Tower Tampa's former buyers sue Donald Trump
By James Thorner, Times Staff Writer
Posted: Nov 13, 2009 04:31 PM

Donald Trump was sued Thursday by two dozen erstwhile condo buyers in never-built Trump Tower Tampa.

The buyers, who lost part of their 20 percent deposits when the $300-million project went bankrupt last year, accuse Trump of fraudulently claiming to be a development partner when he was only lending his name to the building for a licensing fee.

The 600-foot skyscraper at 100 S. Ashley Drive was supposed to be the tallest building in west Florida. The 190 condos inside were to be equally upscale, costing from $700,000 to $600,000.

The plaintiffs, including retirees who complain about losing their life savings, seek unspecified damages from the New York real estate tycoon. Tower developer SimDag Robel LLC lost the riverfront lot to foreclosure this year.

News of the Trump lawsuit leaked out two weeks ago, but the paperwork wasn't filed until Thursday.



[Last modified: Nov 13, 2009 07:47 PM]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/trump-tower-tampas-former-buyers-sue-donald-trump/1051606

I love this. The project was supposed to be finished like what last year or the year before, and this thing it still going around in the drain.

Also, nice typo on the pricing. ;)

Way to go TBT.

Trump's designs are consistently horrible. Consider yourselves lucky.

Instead of a tall tower at this location, wouldn't it be great to have a 20 story Hotel with a terraced shopping and dining area that opens up to and interacts with a vibrant riverwalk...I'm thinking about Melbourne, Australia again.

20 floors would be fine, but why not make it 30? Street design and interaction are key, especially in this lot as it is pivotal to the greater Riverwalk....even though right now the Riverwalk is supposed to be re-routed off of the river in that area.

Steve

Why not make it 60 or 70?

Yeah, that would be great....but I think it might hit FAA restrictions at that height. I would not like anything less than 30 floors, 40 would be even better. In the end it is all about street interaction though.

Steve

^^
I know I should not bring this up, but I'm sick of those FAA restrictions. But I also know that POK ain't going anywhere.....

We need a 4 or 5 star on that site. Espicially with W Hotel looking like a no go at the moment, I don't think there is any 4 to 5 star hotel proposals in Tampa. TWELVE is on hold, W Hotel seems never since Fuel Group is having it's problems, and Four Seasons could return but it's up to them. Residential doesn't even seem like a good decision for the area, only if it was a residential/hotel type of project.

This is what I had in mind along the riverwalk...I don't care as much about the height. At least 20 floors...

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5503/107v.jpg

We need more hotels, shoppings, night life in Tampa and make it more attractive then make it more transit friendly

^^ Agreed

Read the below as part of the most recent riverwalk posting. Could be that an announcement is made soon regarding the failed TTT site???


"The city last year negotiated with the property's current owners, BB&T Bank, for a 23-foot easement to allow the pathway. It also struck a bargain that when the 1.5-acre property sells, the new owner will donate $150,000 toward the Riverwalk. Hoffman said a deal between BB&T and a developer is in the works."

I was going to say that they might have just meant the develop of the Riverwalk, but it does sound like a developer for the site is in the works.

This does bring up a discussion though, what do we expect on this site? Being that this is the only site along the Riverwalk that's ready for development before you get to Seminole Heights, what should be our expectations? Height? Use? Retail? Might be a good oppurtunity to send ideas to the city before they start talking about a 4 story parking garage.

A hotel (hopefully hi-rise) would be good for that site since it's within walking distance of the convention center as well as the heart of downtown. Not sure that there's a demand for office space right now, so I doubt that an office building gets built there. Same with condos.

The problem is it's not a very good site for outdoor cafes and such on the riverwalk, because the draw bridge deck is quite noisy when vehicles go over it.

Here's to hoping that whoever buys this parcel also buys the Cap Trust building. The NW end of the unified parcel would be a great place for cafes and such.

I would say a hotel is really the only viable option other than the city taking over the property for another "linear park". No nearby demand for retail as there is nothing around the immediate area but office towers. A mixed use hotel/condo (upper floors) might work but financing would be tough to come by. Then again, this is probably the last waterfront site where something substantial could be built other than knock down and rebuild (i.e. former Venu site, etc...). Hopefully a new tallest would be ideal!

I would say a hotel is really the only viable option other than the city taking over the property for another "linear park". No nearby demand for retail as there is nothing around the immediate area but office towers. A mixed use hotel/condo (upper floors) might work but financing would be tough to come by. Then again, this is probably the last waterfront site where something substantial could be built other than knock down and rebuild (i.e. former Venu site, etc...). Hopefully a new tallest would be ideal!
That's the way Trump was heading by the end of the fiasco. There was rumors that they were going to do a hotel/condo mix instead of the planned condo.

At the moment, there is no demand for retail. But once the Riverwalk is completed the convention center and Curtis Hixon, you're going to have hundreds every day walking past this site. And if we get another political convention or sporting event, thousands will walk pass this site. Retail should be mandatory really, not an option.

Height could actually be taller than the Trump Tower since we have a new head that sits on the FAA in the county. And I wouldn't be surprised if a height that would make it the tallest in Tampa could be approved for this site.

I'll have to find the article to read what actually went down, but the sculpture at MacDill is actually suppose to be leaving due to the city not leasing it out any further or something along them lines. I don't know if the city would be willing to sell that piece of land since really no one uses that site to relax (I never see anyone there) and the sculpture is leaving.

It seems to me that whatever retail/dining is built along the riverwalk should have some access on the street-side as well maybe through a lobby or arcade.

I would hope that the city would really start thinking like a "city" and use whatever clout they can to insist on a new tallest for the city. You would never see such a prime spot on the waterfront wasted on something other than greatness for the site (i.e. Chicago, New York, even Miami). They could really command something that defines the city or identifies it.

^The max height for that parcel is 591ft. Given that this is only 14ft past the current tallest, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I'm expecting more like a 300-400 footer next time around anways.

How about a 45 story Hilton? But is Tampa really ready for some class? And about the failed TTT, that was one of the biggest disappointments and embarrassments this area has seen since the Bucs in 1976-77. I won't comment too much more since this thread died down a few years ago.

Its still fine to talk about the TTT site, no rules against it.

At this moment, I don't think we're at the level to get a classy hotel. Would be nice, but they look at things like visitors levels, amount of high salary jobs, and use of convention space to determine if the market is right.

Marriott and Embassy, they're in the middle when it comes to hotels. They're nice, but price range and amenities, lower and less compared to the upper hotels. Ritz-Carlton, Hilton, Four Seasons; those are the upper hotels.

Just a thought, but TWELVE is the only upper hotel that really has been planned for Downtown Tampa. I don't know how serious Novare is now about constructing one in Tampa, but would they not mind moving the project to this site? Gives them the first oppurtunity to do a waterfront/riverfront project since I don't think they have done any yet.

How can Novare even build TWELVE at this point when they can't even pay off their current loan debts?

How can Novare even build TWELVE at this point when they can't even pay off their current loan debts?

I'll go back to the "TWELVE" thread since this one is for TTT.

Florida investment group buys downtown site of what would have been Trump Tower Tampa


http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/venturebiz/content/florida-investment-group-buys-downtown-site-what-would-have-been-trump-tower-tampa

Wake up and good morning. Downtown Tampa's scrappy but valuable patch of land by the Hillsborough River that was to be Trump Tower Tampa has a new owner. According to the Wall Street Journal, Florida real-estate developer Robert Owens purchased the site of the failed waterfront condominium project that had cut a branding deal with Donald Trump. Owens said a partnership he is leading paid $5 million for the former Trump site and the adjacent CapTrust six-story office building. He said he plans to build a mixed-use complex with retail, offices and a hotel or condominiums there.

For the record, that's 111 S. Ashley Drive. Owens' group is called Brownstone Tampa Partners, LLC. The group calls the old Trump site the "only undeveloped parcel in the downtown core located on the Hillsborough River." Brownstone Tampa Partners is an investment partnership of O,R&L Facility Services, Owens Realty Network and Community Reinvestment Partners II, LP, a joint venture investment fund of Forge Capital Partners, LLC and DeBartolo Development, LLC (that's Tampa's Eddie DeBartolo).

Owens told the Journal that the vacant lot alone worth $10 million before the Trump project tanked. "I think it's important that we put a new face and identity on the building because it went through some challenges that we're looking to move forward from," he said.

Owens is a top executive with O,R&L, a real estate investment and management firm. The photo above (courtesy of O,R&L) shows the vacant lot by the Hillsborough River with the 6-story CapTrust building.

Trump was not the developer of the planned 52-story Tampa project. He licensed his name to local developer Simdag/Robel LLC. Trump did a number of these types of deals in the years leading up the economic downturn, earning large fees. Most turned out well. But a few proved to be a headache for Trump after the market soured. Simdag/Robel sought bankruptcy protection in 2008. Dozens of condo buyers sued the developer seeking the return of their 20-percent deposits. Some sued Trump, alleging he misled them into thinking he was one of the condo tower's builders.

Read the complete Wall Street Journal story here.

Is that the end of the story of Trump in Tampa? Hardly. Trump's still being sued by folks who put down deposits on his proposed tower and have not gotten reimbursed. Still, it's good news to see Tampa's commercial real estate market, in this land sale, finally starting to move forward.

-- Robert Trigaux, Business Columnist, St. Petersburg Times

I'm doubtful anything will ever be built there. It will just be a parking lot until the value of the land goes up. Then they sell the land again. It's a vicious cycle. Prime riverfront property and if anything ever gets built it WILL suck.

^^
Ditto. Nothing will be built there for ten years at least. Especially with the economy getting worse and depression fears are rising back again.

^^
Ditto. Nothing will be built there for ten years at least. Especially with the economy getting worse and depression fears are rising back again.

It's worse than the depression, gerald celente has it on point.
the greatest depression.

It's worse than the depression, gerald celente has it on point.
the greatest depression.

Yes, the economy sucks probably worse than it ever has.However, I would be wary of Gerald Celentes predictions. He has already been wrong on a couple of his predictions. (Food riots and ghost malls by 2009???).It seems like he uses pessimism as a way to sell himself.All too often he exaggerates his points.

Yes, the economy sucks probably worse than it ever has.However, I would be wary of Gerald Celentes predictions. He has already been wrong on a couple of his predictions. (Food riots and ghost malls by 2009???).It seems like he uses pessimism as a way to sell himself.All too often he exaggerates his points.

But sadly 2012 will be an even bigger problem coming soon.

lol

lol

Believe me 2012 will be WW3 big time.


Otherwise the damage is done.

Seek professional help.

2012 will just be more of the same. If you don't think so, THAT'S the sign you should seek professional help.

2012 will just be more of the same. If you don't think so, THAT'S the sign you should seek professional help.

Only this time, it will be worse.

Sorry about the run-on but:

You're right, because basement level poll numbers for all the new Republican governors; Ryan's Budget/Medicare plan going over like a bomb and every Congressional Republican now trying to run away from it unless they are in the South; no serious Presidential candidates; stupid immigration laws that are causing billions in losses to producers (see Georgia), a concerted assault on women's issues from abortion to healthcare; the fact that the best provisions of the healthcare overhaul have kicked in and its radically easier to get coverage; the fact that Republicans didn't even try to deliver on campaign promises of jobs-jobs-jobs and instead delivered culture war themed legislation; a direct attack on organized labor; and generally trying to destroy the economy by messing with the debt ceiling; all point to stunning electoral success for the Republicans.

Keep dreaming, when senior party members are warning of serious losses because of just the Medicare proposal, you should start to worry. Dem's will hold the Senate (and probably gain), get close in the House again, and depending on who the Republicans nominate, Obama could be looking at Reagan 84 numbers. But you keep living in fantasy Fox News land.

Sorry about the run-on but:

You're right, because basement level poll numbers for all the new Republican governors; Ryan's Budget/Medicare plan going over like a bomb and every Congressional Republican now trying to run away from it unless they are in the South; no serious Presidential candidates; stupid immigration laws that are causing billions in losses to producers (see Georgia), a concerted assault on women's issues from abortion to healthcare; the fact that the best provisions of the healthcare overhaul have kicked in and its radically easier to get coverage; the fact that Republicans didn't even try to deliver on campaign promises of jobs-jobs-jobs and instead delivered culture war themed legislation; a direct attack on organized labor; and generally trying to destroy the economy by messing with the debt ceiling; all point to stunning electoral success for the Republicans.

Keep dreaming, when senior party members are warning of serious losses because of just the Medicare proposal, you should start to worry. Dem's will hold the Senate (and probably gain), get close in the House again, and depending on who the Republicans nominate, Obama could be looking at Reagan 84 numbers. But you keep living in fantasy Fox News land.

No Matter, democrat/republican were screwed, enjoy fixed news and the clown news network, makes me glad i'm a libertarian, both parties are total garbage to me.
and this is from a former democrat.

skyscraperhighrise likes to bait people into arguements to ultimately turn up his nose at the two-party system and say he's better than everyone else.

Do you feel really cool?

Skyscraperhighrise in a nutshall... "You're all wrong, and I'm right. Even though there is no evidence whatsoever that I'm right, I expect you to fawn over me as if there is."

If we have an all out depression during the next several years. Michelle Bachmann (Ms. Tea Party) will probably win the presidency and tear this country apart even more. That's just my two cents anyway.

No one need fear a Bachmann presidency. The stuffed-suit will get the nomination.

But Bachmann is hawt for a woman her age!

If we have an all out depression during the next several years. Michelle Bachmann (Ms. Tea Party) will probably win the presidency and tear this country apart even more. That's just my two cents anyway.

Considering we're not even in a recession, a depression is exceedingly unlikely in the next few years.

Considering we're not even in a recession, a depression is exceedingly unlikely in the next few years.

And that is what is so weird about the economy. They are saying the recession ended two years ago but unemployment is still a black cloud hanging over the US. I thought the depression was the entire decade of the 1930's but it was offically 1933 & 34 (I think). Every year for the rest of the 30's got only a little better than the last. By 1940, the unemployment was still at 15%. I got this from wiki. And another point is not all economists agree on how to measure when a recession starts and ends. Now can we move this argument into another thread? This is supposed to be about the embarrassing TTT.

Johnknee, are you the restaurant rating guy? If so I need to inquire about some burger joints.

If we have an all out depression during the next several years. Michelle Bachmann (Ms. Tea Party) will probably win the presidency and tear this country apart even more. That's just my two cents anyway.

Whoops...


Make that two people who need professional help.

There are entirely two parallel economies right now. I've never worked more, which is the same for about 3/4 of the people I know, while the other 1/4 can't catch a break. I should make what I made last year by the end of August. The only common thing I see is that there was tremendous overcapacity in things that weren't really necessary. Sales in particular has been decimated as there were just too many people doing sales. If you service the top end and do it well, you stay busy. The same with anything technical. But quite frankly some people needed to quit the whining and consider doing something else career-wise. Once you've been out of something for a year, you aren't going to get hired in that field again without taking a serious step backwards.

I think it helps that I moved to a much bigger area with a huge potential pool of clients/employers.

If we have an all out depression during the next several years. Michelle Bachmann (Ms. Tea Party) will probably win the presidency and tear this country apart even more. That's just my two cents anyway.

We are in a depression and the real cause of this is the federal reserve.

and it makes me glad I Hate the two party system except a few patriots.

You radical leftist liberals and war mongering neocons are ruining america

Obvious troll is obvious.

Too Funny!!

You guys all talk so much smack about the conservative right, and kiss the left's ass, but as soon as someone has a differnet opinion, you guys attack him.

Now that being said, I go to another forum wth a lot of conservatives and they are just rotten to the liberals on that board.

This has nothing to do with conservative or liberal opinions. Everybody with a decent behavior and sound arguments is respected here.

My only problem is when people try to argue points with no shred of evidence to back it up. All the depression talk is getting lame as its clear from just about every economic metric that the economy has been improving for two years now. The only things lagging significantly are employment and real estate values.

On employment, quite frankly unemployment rates below 5% are artificially low. Normal unemployment is around 7%, during a great economy its around 5%. Too many people were in jobs that just were redundant and unnecessary.

On real estate, the problem was valuations just couldn't be sustained and lots of people deserved to take a haircut. I lost $80K on my house, but I worked the best deal I could and moved on. Also, lots of the new housing that was built is approaching functional obsolescence due to location. You now have thousands of detached SFRs out in areas that are getting too expensive to commute from. But the good news is that building should get going again soon, because population growth didn't stop because of the recession. There just needs to be more MFR (rental and owner-occupied) built, and it needs to be closer into where the jobs are.

Too Funny!!

You guys all talk so much smack about the conservative right, and kiss the left's ass, but as soon as someone has a differnet opinion, you guys attack him.

Now that being said, I go to another forum wth a lot of conservatives and they are just rotten to the liberals on that board.
Thing is, this isn't a political forum. This isn't the thread where we talk about politics or how one side is better than the other. Or where we go on a "work on your Armageddon bunker" tirade. Last time I checked (which was 1 second ago), this is the thread for the dead Tampa Trump Tower, not how both parties are gunning to destroy us.

If you want to have a political discussion, there is a sub-forum for that kinds of chatter. On that basis, there shouldn't be any type of politics in the development forum.

Mike

:banana::banana::banana:^^^^^^

Whoops...


Make that two people who need professional help.

:bash:

lol. At least this thread is fun.

I am just posting to pre-emptively tell skyscraperhighrise to shut the hell up because nobody cares about his political viewpoints.

I am just posting to pre-emptively tell skyscraperhighrise to shut the hell up because nobody cares about his political viewpoints.

Neither can you.

lol. At least this thread is fun.

Only because Skyscraperhighrise continues to mindlessly spew out his pointless bias and I continue to be "paranoid". Yeah............ok........... (_^_)

Only because Skyscraperhighrise continues to mindlessly spew out his pointless bias and I continue to be "paranoid". Yeah............ok........... (_^_)
Let's just keep all the nonsense somewhere else please.

Where's FF?!?!?!

^IDK... I think I'm going to re-mod myself.

^^
That'll prob be a good idea. There's too much trolling on these forums yet again. :ohno:

^Yeah, but I'm the source of 1/3 of it.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-cfb-talking-with-owens-0711-20110711,0,2593888,print.story

With ... Robert Owens: Trump Tower Tampa deal started as hunt for some office space

July 11, 2011

Robert Owens, 52, is chief executive of Winter Park-based OR&L Facility Services and Owens Realty Network, which recently partnered on the $5 million purchase of the former Trump Tower Tampa site and adjacent CapTrust Building. He spoke with Orlando Sentinel staff

writer Mary Shanklin.

CFB: Talk a little about the seeds of the Trump property deal.

We were actually looking for office space on the West Coast of Florida for OR&L. And we looked at the CapTrust Building as a potential office location for us, and we were informed that the bank was about to aquire it and liquidate it through foreclosure. It was fully permitted and buyers had made deposits on 190 preconstruction condominium units. The developer was a group out of Miami, and they went to [Donald] Trump and licensed his name, which I guess Trump does for selective projects. But he was not the true developer.

CFB: What kind of office space were you looking for?

A regional office for OR&L and Owens Realty in the Tampa area. We weren't looking at that project, but we were simultaneously looking for opportunistic transactions in commercial real estate that had been taken back by the banks but would make good, long-term real estate investments.

CFB: How would you develop it, or would you consider selling it?

Initially we did not see the acquisition of the land as a quick turnaround or something that we would sell to another developer. We really saw it as a long-term investment, something that we would hold and let the market rebound.

CFB: What's your thinking now?

I think the way we see it is, where the Trump site was primarily a residential development, we see it more as a mixed-use development, combining hospitality or a hotel component and potentially office, retail and restaurant. But that is only in concept. The full master plan has not been put together.

CFB: So are you thinking development or sale?

We see ourselves as being part of the development team, most likely long term. The city is amenable to mixed use. We did not approach the zoning commission, but we felt that could be accommodated there. That is obviously a long-term process that involves seeking approvals from all of the governmental entities. Our first order of business is with the CapTrust Building, which is about 65 percent leased and we want it to be 100 percent leased. It wasn't attractive to tenants because of the uncertainty of ownership.

CFB: How much space will your office take in the 45,926-square-foot building?

Initially, about 3,000 square feet.

CFB: Do you think the Trump brand would help sell or lease the building?

Our position is that's part of the past history of the site, and we are looking at building a new identity at the site independent of that.

CFB: What identity are you considering?

I think the Riverwalk and the waterfront give it its own identity and desireability and its own ability to attract tenants. Being a waterfront site, it's also immediately adjacent to the Tampa Convention Center. There's a causeway that divides us, but the Riverwalk connects us. The Republican National Convention is going to be there next year.

CFB: Do you see downtown Orlando or downtown Tampa being more viable right now?

That's loaded a question.

Copyright © 2011, Orlando Sentinel

They will rezone to higher intensity mixed-use and flip it, the same as any other scavenger does in this kind of market. The "longterm" part comes in because it will take several years for the local commercial real estate market to draw the kind of significant investments that will drive prices up and make flipping this land a profitable venture.

CFB: Do you see downtown Orlando or downtown Tampa being more viable right now?

That's loaded a question.

LOL!!! At least they have enough sense not to slag Tampa when they know they still need a friendly vote from the city council to make their nut on this deal.

They will rezone to higher intensity mixed-use and flip it, the same as any other scavenger does in this kind of market. The "longterm" part comes in because it will take several years for the local commercial real estate market to draw the kind of significant investments that will drive prices up and make flipping this land a profitable venture.


LOL!!! At least they have enough sense not to slag Tampa when they know they still need a friendly vote from the city council to make their nut on this deal.

So are you thinking this land will just keep going through flipping and nothing ever gets built?

Why would anything get built on this parcel? Where is the demand for it coming from?

Why would anything get built on this parcel? Where is the demand for it coming from?

No idea. The opportunity for something has been there for at least 30 years through other recessions and prosperous times too and yet nothing happened. The only demand right now is parking lots.

Its a horrible location from an ingress-egress point of view, and its a really tight site. I would expect it to sit as is for a decade or so.

Its a horrible location from an ingress-egress point of view, and its a really tight site. I would expect it to sit as is for a decade or so.

or forever.

^^Probably. It would be a good place for a pocket park, and ideally a great opportunity for an eminent domain case. If cities can take property to improve the overall economic health of the area, they should be able to grab this. It should be pretty easy to show that its damn worthless, as nothing has ever happened to that location.

The land will become an infinite parking lot or garage. Nothing more.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/08/02/38665.htm

Condo Buyers Can Sue Trump on Project
By MARIMER MATOS*

*****(CN) - Investors who bought luxury condos in the Trump Tower Tampa can sue Donald Trump over allegedly misleading claims about his supposed "partnership" in the project, which was exposed as merely an agreement to license his name when Trump sued the actual developer in 2007.
*****A federal judge in Florida found that Trump and The Trump Organization qualified as either developers or agents, and not just a licensor, of the Trump Tower Tampa, allowing investors to sue them under the Interstate Land Sales Full Disclosure Act.
*****Investor and lead plaintiff Steve Aaron claimed Trump represented that he was a developer and investor of the luxury condo project in Tampa, when he was actually only licensing his name to local developer and non-party SimDag-RoBEL and had invested no money in the project.
*****Aaron and other plaintiffs say that Trump hid his confidential license agreement with SimDag, and the plaintiffs would not have purchased condo units if they knew it was not a Trump development, which they discovered in 2007 after Trump sued SimDag for allegedly breaching the licensing agreement.
*****Judge Steven Merryday agreed that Trump and The Trump Organization are either developers or agents of the Trump Tower Tampa under the Interstate Land Sales Full Disclosure Act (ILSFDA).
*****"The defendants not only acted on behalf of SimDag in promoting the sale of the units, but the defendants distributed marketing material that portrayed the Trump Tower Tampa as an 'exclusive,' Trump development, i.e., one of 'the finest properties from the biggest name in real estate,'" Merryday wrote. "Under the language of the ILSFDA, the defendants undoubtedly qualify as either a 'developer' or an 'agent.'"
*****But the judge wouldn't go so far as to grant summary judgment on whether the secret agreement qualified as the omission of a "material fact" under the Act.
*****Merryday said it wasn't clear how much importance investors placed on Trump's supposed "partnership" in the project, as the marketing materials portrayed him, in comparison with other elements of the deal.
*****"Whether under the circumstances (including the property report, purchase agreement, condominium disclosures, and other disclaimers) a 'reasonable likelihood' exists that the omitted or untrue fact 'would have assumed actual significance in the deliberations of the reasonable investor' remains a genuine issue of material fact," Merryday wrote. (Parentheses in original)*

-url=http://www2.tbo.com/news/community-news/2011/sep/07/tampas-tumbler-is-half-full-ar-255881/]From a larger article on Tampa's economic status (a glass-half-full look)[/url]:

For the first time seemingly in memory, there has been a spate of development plans announced for the downtown area. And it's more than the deep-pocketed Brownstone Tampa Partners, who are looking mixed-use and long-term, becoming the new owner of the erstwhile Trump Tower site. If nothing else, it's a vote of confidence by savvy business people, including partner DeBartolo Development LLC, which recognized a bargain -- and know the market.

They haven't even planned anything for the site, and probably not for a while either.

^^
It'll be another parking lot in 5 months....just watch.