We would like to draw your attention to one of Macedonia's greatest truths, the truth of Ohrid, an eternal town, a magical hill whose primordial pulsation links ancient and modern times forewer because: Ohrid has been a living town for two thousand and four hundred years. It is the legitimate descendant of the shining Lychnidos, a town whose achievements were woven into the tapestry of a powerful ancient civilization; the town of Ohrid is indeed the cultural history of the Republic of Macedonia in miniature. As an Episcopal centre in ancient times, and likewise through the widely renowned Ohrid archibishopic, through the centuries the town has represented the entire ecclesiastical history of Macedonia. It bears the name "The Balkan Jerusalem". Through the activity of St. Clement of Ohrid, the first pan-Slavonic university on Europe was situated here. Ohrid was the most important official capital of Samuel's empire. And Ohrid was the centre of Macedonia's nineteenth century revival. Today Ohrid is a cultural, spiritual and tourist centre. And finally, as the crowning glory of its values, Ohrid and Lake Ohrid have been named a world cultural and natural heritage listed city under the protection of UNESCO since 1980.

Pasko Kuzman

http://www.worldlakes.org/uploads/ohrid_locator_72a.jpg

Map of Ohrid Lake
http://www.ohrid.org.mk/eng/ohez/gohez.jpg

http://www.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de/Picturebook/egnatia/pics/TSU_Ohrid_view.jpg
Samoil's fortress in Ohrid
http://deanoman.com/email/balkans/balkan3_114.JPG

http://faq.macedonia.org/images/ohrid.view.jpg

Kaneo Church in Ohrid
http://www.globosapiens.net/data/gallery/mk/pictures/www.globosapiens.net--macedonia-the-former-yugoslav-rep--ohrid--ohrid--id=5366.jpg

http://www.eawag.ch/research_e/apec/aquaticphysics/ohrid.jpg

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/mali/Ohrid%20city.JPG

http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/077/Info/ohrid.jpg

http://www.ismus.info/congress/foto/Port_Ohrid.jpg

http://www.dr-negendank.de/mazedonien/Ohrid/ohrid_4.gif

http://www.athens2004-mk.gov.mk/Agency_of_Youth_and_Sport/Ohrid/sliki/Ohrid1_m.jpg

http://jmak.hp.infoseek.co.jp/gallery/maced2003/ohrid01.jpg

Beautiful! биляна платно белеше....

Ohrid is absolutely beautiful! :)

yes. Ohrid is one of the most beautiful places in Europe :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/yugoboy/38180395.jpg

Was that photoshoped?

Love the picture... nice church.

ah no.. i got it of a different website :)

nope, it's really that beautiful ;)
though maybe a little enhanced ;)

Nice, looks like Greece.

Is Ohrid pronounced with a soft "g" or specifically "h"?

^soft g, just like you say "Hristo" ;)

Ohrid is a beautiful Macedonian city! I'll post some pictures

http://www.realitymacedonia.org.mk/Images/3580/IMG_3084.jpg

http://www.realitymacedonia.org.mk/Images/3580/IMG_2867.jpg

http://www.realitymacedonia.org.mk/Images/3580/IMG_3081.jpg

http://www.realitymacedonia.org.mk/Images/3580/120_2043.jpg

http://www.realitymacedonia.org.mk/Images/3580/119_1930.jpg
St. Naum surroundings.

Really nice place. Beutiful lake, and scenery.

EDIT: anyway, keep the picture coming, I've always loved Ohrid (looks better than Skopje IMO, sorry dejan :D)

wolf, it's not just pictures, the photos are lovely, ohrid's fantastic. . Butthere's a short paragraph thet contains a historical lie, big lie! So my idea's not completely offtopic
Sorry for fucking up the topic with so much negativism, it's just that whenever anything about macedonia happens to be discussed on this forum there's ALWAYS some piece of forged history... I have absolutely nothing against Macedonians and I don't care who you wanna be, call yourselves Slavic heirs of Vikings or Franks if you like, just don't steal national heroes! Make them up or something.
SORRY

^well that's how I feel, but please... izpoizvaite PM-ovite ;)
Mislia che mogat da izpolzvat geroii ot drugi darzhavi, do momentat che ne kazvat che e samo tehen, etc.
obache, molia vi se, PMs ;)
I guess not many other people really care about the FYROM/Macedonia issues, so just as we don't want to see ex-Yugoslavian fights, if we need explanations, PM each other a couple of polite messages.

lol 3tmk, it doesn't matter, i think Ohrid is better than Skopje too:)

And can someone PLEASE do something about these bulgarians? They always ruin the threads when ever it is about Macedonia, please stop it! Open up another topic about the issue, don't hijack this thread.

no offense to anyone, but the only city that i really ever liked/like macedonia. skopje looks to "gray" for my likings, and the other cities are mostly towns...

Which cities have you been to in Macedonia? Bitola is worth a visit, so is Krusevo.

Which cities have you been to in Macedonia? Bitola is worth a visit, so is Krusevo.

no, i've never visted any cities in macedonia, i'm just applying my statements to all the pictures that i've seen from macedonia..

Oh ok then. Well Skopje is a fun city.
Here are more pictures of Ohrid (and some of Struga and Skopje)
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lideyaa/album?.dir=b43a&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lideyaa/my_photos

skopje is a fun city? in what way is it fun?

Well for me it was fun. It has an interesting Turkish bazar, many cafes and restuarants, clubs.

Timur, if you don't know anything about macedonia, and have only seen a few pictures, than why are you Criticizing it?! :S

Probably Sarajevo is provincial for them too...they never visited Sarajevo (probably), and you never visited Skoplje. So...I don't think that's fair from your side.

And can someone PLEASE do something about these bulgarians? They always ruin the threads when ever it is about Macedonia, please stop it! Open up another topic about the issue, don't hijack this thread.
you know, you have been here for a month, it's the greeks that hijack the threads, and here braykov was only stating that Samuil is Bulgarian. I said that this isn't the place, and don't worry, braykov1988 is a great forumer, he has nothing against Macedonia...
and when you say "these bulgarians", the only ones here are Braykov and me :D

3tmk, i'm sure we can all sit down and smash plenty of beers and talk like gentlemen, i just think that it's not cool to yap about the past extensively.
A polite PM would be nice, don't u think there're complete foreigners to these issues? I noticed some members are from Ukraine, Azerbejan, Poland, etc.

Cheers.

^I can tell you that with all the greek threads, they might know more on this than I do...
anyway, post what you want, I'll delete the posts not dealing with Ohrid later tonight ;)
and where are my damn Ohrid pics :rant:
I want more!!! :D
EDIT: done, sorry if I didn't notify and ask those involved, I just didn't have the time to wait for answers ;)
And I took the liberty to edit a few posts as there were parts that we could do without ;)
:cheers:

Well for me it was fun. It has an interesting Turkish bazar, many cafes and restuarants, clubs.


oh...cool! :) i knew that skopje had fun things to do, since my father told me when he went down there alot when he was younger, and it was a blast...btw, i wasn't critizing your country/cities, i was just curious.

no hard feelings. :cheers1:

Timur, if you don't know anything about macedonia, and have only seen a few pictures, than why are you Criticizing it?! :S


i am sorry if i was interpreted as criticing, i was just really curious. forgive me. :(

lol 3tmk, i thought there were many other bulgarians here for some reason:p
Anyway you seem better and more polite than the other bulgarian....:)
It's ok timur, i didn't take it as an offence.

Ohri is a very nice city.
It is also very old.
The Ohri lake (the other part is in Pogradec , Albania) is awsome.
It is the depeest lake in Europe and has the rare Koran fish which is believed to be thousands of years old and has survived extintion due to the depth of the lake.
I really enjoy Ohrid because it has still the Bizantine influence.
It is very pleasant and definitely recomended to tourists.
It is much better than Skopje for sure.

i'll go on to say one more time that it is truly insulting to be called history forgers or whatever,+ that this forum shouldn't have anything to do with the topics.
if anybody prefers a political discusion on any liguistical or historical issues,welcome and open some other treads,or visit some forums that deal with the topic.in my best knowing,bulgaria and greece have quite a preponderance of national histories to be questioned by itself as well,and you can ask any greek or bulgarian about that.
the question of macedonian national history has come to be more pronounced because of many many reasons,mostly because it interlapses with the allready conflicting national histories in the neighbouring countries.
it's funny to see how history constantly repeats it self in diferent discuises,until we learn the lessons,that is to respect each other for what we are.i couldn't believe my eyes that one of the treads dealing with macedonia's road to eu got all about stuff that suposedly hapened 2500 or 1000 years ago,and ended discusing the etno genetic background of modern macedonia.
and when macedonians addressed some of the naci arguments,it got instantly closed!
it's good that it got closed,but it should have hapened much before when everybody was spiting the naci venom of balkan intolerance.
i'll say again that that tread should be either open again or all the insulting posts should be erased.to call a macedonian bulgarian is like caling croat-a serb,or telling ukrainian that he is russian.
so,please everybody,have some respect when posting about macedonia and macedonians.
regards and sorry to get of topic,
ango

I agree with the above post.
It is important to respect your neighbours.
I dont understand why Greece would not accept the name Macedonia?
I do understand it but what i mean is that their reasoning is really senseless.
We live in modern times.
We dont live in the Stone Age.
This does nothing but ruin the image of the greeks.
Macedonia is Macedonia and shall be respected as such.
It is the same as saying i will not recognise your country as Greece because the name Greece used to be a province in the Illyrian times.
It is an absolute joke.
What is a bigger joke is that the EU goes along with this as well.
Such hipocrites indeed!!!

angomako, as much as I can see, I erased the posts about politics, and you're the one bringing it up, so if you want trouble between you and the greeks, get out of here and go to another forum. :nono:

Very nice city, IMO "Ohrid" is for me definitely the beautifulest city name in EE, it sounds so relaxed, mystic and peacefull :)

quote:
angomako, as much as I can see, I erased the posts about politics, and you're the one bringing it up, so if you want trouble between you and the greeks, get out of here and go to another forum.
----------------------------------------------------------
actally,i was refering to the tread in east sky cafe,named "macedonia's road to eu"...
they closed it before we could say anything,and it still stays intact.
this tread goes fine.it's the other one that i would like to see either reopened or removed...or remoderated.:puke:
this one is just fine.i wrote my coment here cause i allready pm someone because of that,but got no response:speech:
take care,
ango

well pm the mods.
and the other one was past history that got hijacked by greeks and then by you 4.
And again, it was closed, and now it's trolling if you start the fight anew on another thread :nono:
next time, pm more mods, the staff can get lazy sometimes ;)
:cheers:

that tread wasn't hijacked by greeks only,there were bulgarinas and serbs writing insulting coments,complitely of topic,and it was only normal to have addressed those things.the funny thing is,that it got closed not after greeks posted stuff,or after bulgarians posted stuff,or serbians,but only after some mako addressed the insults.
it doesn't make any sense.either reopen it or close the whole thing...
but i digress,and my coments stop here.
all the best,
ango

Are there many tourists in Ohrid? I read that there are going to built a Radisson hotel soon there

that tread wasn't hijacked by greeks only,there were bulgarinas and serbs writing insulting coments,complitely of topic,and it was only normal to have addressed those things.the funny thing is,that it got closed not after greeks posted stuff,or after bulgarians posted stuff,or serbians,but only after some mako addressed the insults.
it doesn't make any sense.either reopen it or close the whole thing...
but i digress,and my coments stop here.
all the best,
ango

Hmmm...after Serb-Croat-Bosniak fight on this forum finally finished, it seems that new Skopian Macedoanian-Bulgarian is starting :(

quote:
Skopian Macedoanian-Bulgarian is starting
------------------------------------------------
what does skopje has to do with this?

Hmmm...after Serb-Croat-Bosniak fight on this forum finally finished, it seems that new Skopian Macedoanian-Bulgarian is starting :(

Duckzilla, our conflict has been much older than yours. MUCH MUCH OLDER. Don't forget to throw in Greek in your statement next time. Anyways, both of our conflicts have got us nowhere really, at least ours didn't escalate to violence in recent years.

I hold no grudge towards anybody, especially our neigbours, but it really su.cks when fingers are being pointed for no reason, there's always targetting and tauntings like this. We should be able to at least judge the Opinion and not attack the user right away.

Sorry about my off-topic post, but let's get back to Ohrid please.

The town is expanding with new urban zones, new hotels are build and if any of you decide to vacation there i think you'll find there is something for everybody --> families, singles, young, elders...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/yugoboy/38180395.jpg
Nice pics. Is this a Serbian Orthodox Church???

quote:
Is this a Serbian Orthodox Church???
-------------------------------------------
no cause it's much much older then any serbian church.

^lol :D
it dates to the times when Bulgaria ruled the Balkans... well tried, Byzance is a hell of an adversary.
anyway, I'm tired of deleting posts here ;)

It looks like a Byzantine Orthodox Church (well in that style anyway) but I would say it would have probably been a Bulgarian Church until the 1870's when the Ottoman Porte gave authority for the Bulgarians to establish their on Patriarchate (known as the Exarchate) and the trouble started in the region between the Patriarchate Christians (mainly Greek and Serbian) and Exarchate Christians (mainly Bulgarians).

I think the Bulgarian exarchate definitely included Ochrid. So I'd say it's been a BG church up to...1944?

Well the areas around Ochrid and Monastiri (now Bitola, FYROM) had varying populations... one day you would be Greek (and to a lesser extent Serb) if you were with the Patriarchate and the next day you would be Bulgarian if you were with the Exarchate. Monastiri was predominantly Greek though and Ochrid was predominantly Bulgarian. I have the population statistics somewhere from the census performed by the Ottomans in the late 19th century. Need to find them!

So I'd say it's been a BG church up to...1944?

I tend to agree.

^well I'm not quite sure about that, because macedonia did fall under Yugoslav rule, so they might have made the switch then. And also, they have their own church, though I think it isn't recognized by some, but I don't believe it existed before the Balkan wars.
To tell the truth, we'll have to wait for the macedonians to wake up :D

3tmk, I am sure about this. 100%.

Their 'church' is not recognised by any other Orthodox Patriarchate in the world as it was only founded in 1967, and can only attend Orthodox Councils and Meetings as a subset of the Serbian Patriarchate. I wonder why?

Because religion divides people, but faith brings them together.
I like well designed modern and preserved ancient churches and monasteries but I hate religous fanatics --> PERIOD.

^true, and you're not alone ;)
and I remember that movie 'Big Fish' where that guy said that some tribe in the Congo river Bassin talked about everything but religion, because you never know who you might insult :D

Because religion divides people, but faith brings them together.
I like well designed modern and preserved ancient churches and monasteries but I hate religous fanatics --> PERIOD.
That is very true. :)

I don't think i'll continue posting here.

EDIT: dejan, you're all welcome to stay here but it's your choice, we can't force people on their computers to read SSC :D
or can we? :sly:

When was that church built? The year exactly

I don't think i'll continue posting here.


what? why aren't you going to post on this forum anymore? :dunno:

Because of some of the people here, i don't like it when a thread suddenly turns into a debate when it wasn't meant to be a debate. And it seems that i'll get attacked, in a subtle way, like what happened here and in that thread for Macedonia and the EU. Plus it doesn't seem like other people here like Macedonians, regardless of comments like, we all want a prosperous Macedonia (or as some of you might call it FYROM)
I alone know the struggle of my country and people, something which you people can never begin to comprehend, because you refuse to do so, and when i read comments like in here, Bulgarians and Greeks discussing the history of Macedonian, saying 'well it looks Bulgarian to me, but afterall they are Bulgarians' or something like that, i don't think i'd want to stay in a forum where there are comments like that lingering around. Plus it makes me sick when i see Greeks claiming that they're Macedonian (how can you be two nationalities?) and other things.

And comments like 'To tell the truth, we'll have to wait for the macedonians to wake up:D'

I know not everyone feels this way here, but others do, and i don't want to be in a forum where it looks like it's 1913 and people are discussing about what they should do with Macedonia.

If only most of you knew what Macedonians have gone through, especially after it was partitioned, what the Greeks done, you would change your views. Children forced out of their parents prying arms, sent off to other countries, with a tag on their hand and a number, and for the majority of those children, they didn't know their name, so their name was the number on their tag, for example number 10. It's so sad when you see these children (who are now old) in real life, you can see the struggle they have been through, and now these people are refused to go back to their home villages or towns in Greece. If the border officer see's name of the village (before the greeks changed it to a greek name) then they are refused entrance.

I don't think i'd like to post here anymore with Bulgarians and Greeks who might attack me.

amen

About The Macedonian Orthodox Church
http://www.mpc.org.mk/English/

okay, I'll just briefly state what I pmed to angomako:
first of all, the wake up was no insult, it was meant that you guys need to wake up from your sleep. there's nothing more to it, because at 2 in the morning, I don't think many of you are still awake in Macedonia.
for the FYROM thing, if you look carefully, I am being impartial by calling the country by both names, either macedonia or FYROM, without any preference. Why? because if I called it just FYROM then the macedonians will get angry, and if I called it only Macedonia, the greeks will. There is absolutely no bias, and I thought that by using both names I wouldn't have any problems from either side.
EDIT: I'll leave this up because some might still be under the influence of I don't know what grows in Macedonia :P
anyway, here it is, I did a quick check, so just post pics of the city!
and the church if i remember correctly what I recently read was built in 1295 ;)

http://img254.echo.cx/img254/2613/39ko.th.jpg (http://img254.echo.cx/my.php?image=39ko.jpg)http://img254.echo.cx/img254/225/22az.th.jpg (http://img254.echo.cx/my.php?image=22az.jpg)http://img254.echo.cx/img254/5913/17na.th.jpg (http://img254.echo.cx/my.php?image=17na.jpg)

http://img231.echo.cx/img231/663/42cv.th.jpg (http://img231.echo.cx/my.php?image=42cv.jpg)http://img231.echo.cx/img231/5223/55qp.th.jpg (http://img231.echo.cx/my.php?image=55qp.jpg)http://img231.echo.cx/img231/9606/61jg.th.jpg (http://img231.echo.cx/my.php?image=61jg.jpg)http://img231.echo.cx/img231/5310/71ta.th.jpg (http://img231.echo.cx/my.php?image=71ta.jpg)

http://img231.echo.cx/img231/279/86ne.th.jpg (http://img231.echo.cx/my.php?image=86ne.jpg)http://img231.echo.cx/img231/485/91li.th.jpg (http://img231.echo.cx/my.php?image=91li.jpg)http://img231.echo.cx/img231/6349/105or.th.jpg (http://img231.echo.cx/my.php?image=105or.jpg)http://img231.echo.cx/img231/2240/113gi.th.jpg (http://img231.echo.cx/my.php?image=113gi.jpg)

Excellent pictures Mila! I'll get some of Ohrid.

More of this picturesque city!

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/kaneo%20vo%20sneg.JPG

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/Ohrid%20od%20Park.JPG

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/trpejca.JPG

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/Ohrid%20od%20vozduh.JPG

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/od%20kulite2.JPG

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/sarjsce.JPG

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/kaneo%20sirokoagolno.JPG

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/kaneo%20so%20brod.jpg

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/motiv.JPG

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/pozadi%20gradiste.JPG

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/cinar.JPG

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/od%20jno.JPG

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/od%20kj%20jno%20so%20sneg.JPG

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/Sv.Jon.JPG

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/zalez%20i%20ribar.JPG

http://www.ohrid.com.mk/images/galleria/Sv.%20Jon%20odozdola.JPG

Trek Earth has excellent pictures!

Springs at the Naum Monastery
http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/18696/app0036.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/12255/trp.jpg

I guess they thought of disabled people back then;)
http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/14198/steps.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/14198/ohrid-old_town.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/14198/s_house.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/14198/church_st._jovan_kaneo_i.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/12255/church_st_jovan_teolog-kaneo.jpg

This was first a church then mosque then church
http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/13799/dsc016~2_copy.jpg

The village of Trpejca in the distance
http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/12255/vilage_trpejca.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/14198/lonely_fishermen.jpg

Naum Monastery
http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/12255/monastery_st_naum.jpg

Amazing!
http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/12255/for_singuanti.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/12255/for_zlatko.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/14198/winter_dream.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/12255/church_saint_jovan_kaneo.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/13490/st_john_church_ohrid.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/12255/summer_song.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/12255/little_peninsula_gradishte.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/14198/boat_ohrid.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/12255/plaosnik.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/9954/lake_ohrid_2.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/9954/lake_ohrid.jpg

:)

Beautiful!:)


:cheers:

I found these images in google, they're great

http://www.qualitytours.dk/gallery_ohrid/ohrid07.jpg

http://www.qualitytours.dk/gallery_ohrid/ohrid04.jpg

http://www.qualitytours.dk/gallery_ohrid/ohrid05.jpg

http://www.qualitytours.dk/gallery_ohrid/ohrid06.jpg

http://www.qualitytours.dk/gallery_ohrid/ohrid10.jpg

http://www.qualitytours.dk/gallery_ohrid/ohrid11.jpg

http://www.qualitytours.dk/gallery_ohrid/ohrid12.jpg


Enjoy!

Some more pictures of Ohrid:)

http://tinypic.com/5l6w5k

http://www.makedonika.com.mk/images/desktop/800x600/2.jpg

http://tinypic.com/5l6xp0

http://tinypic.com/5l72bb

http://img205.echo.cx/img205/6458/61879sv1naumresize5am.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

http://tinypic.com/5l7a7m

http://tinypic.com/5l7v2p

St. Naum Monastery, south of Ohrid
http://img160.echo.cx/img160/5645/274859fazan119zl.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)