Louisville\So Indiana Development News [Archive]

LouisvilleJake

January 26th, 2005, 07:37 AM

Louisville once had a successful thread talking about the many issues that face our community. I just wanted to try and get that rolling again by creating this thread and hopefully getting some fun discussions started.

Louisville is on target to finish a massive addition to the KFEC, and is searching for funding for a massive renovation of the East Wing. However, in light of the recent study produced by the Brookings Institute, is it what we need right this second?

With a $52 million South Wing expansion set for completion in the fall, Kentucky Fair & Exposition Center officials now are pushing for a $55 million East Wing renovation.

And although funding has not been secured, the project is getting strong support from local legislators, business leaders and Kentucky Commerce Cabinet officials, who view it as necessary for the fairgrounds to stay ahead of the competition.

Commerce Secretary Jim Host said the cabinet views renovation of the East Wing and adjoining East Hall as its top priority for 2005 legislative capital funding -- assuming the General Assembly can pass a budget bill.

The East Wing project died with the rest of the state budget last year when a political stalemate developed over proposed tax changes.

Host said the project is a priority for Gov. Ernie Fletcher, based on "every conversation we have had." He said it would "put us in the top seven cities in the country with Class A space. We have got to do it."

Class A space is so designated because it's an area that is column-free and has buried utility connections, bright lighting and high ceilings.

The South Wing expansion, due for completion Oct. 1, will add 166,500 square feet of exhibit space and about 70,000 square feet of conference rooms and lobby area. That will bring the fairgrounds to about 1.2 million square feet under roof, including nearly a half-million square feet of Class A space in the South Wing.

State Fair Board President Harold Workman said that expansion will go a long way toward retaining existing shows and helping to lure new exhibition business.

But he said the East Wing, which has had no major upgrades since it opened with Freedom Hall in 1956, has several challenges, including poor lighting and 96 large columns that force exhibits to be set up around them.

Also, the ceilings are 15 feet to 18 feet high -- too low for some large manufactured homes, big trucks and heavy equipment. Exhibitors sometimes have to let air out of tires to get in trailers.

In addition, the utility connections are not buried, requiring miles of lines and cables to be strung out to reach outlets in the columns and walls.

"We are handicapped in having to show that kind of space" to potential clients, Workman said. Without renovation, "there is a real chance we could lose business."

If the legislature approves, the state would sell bonds to fund renovation of the space. State officials already are accepting proposals from architects.

Workman said the project could be under construction in spring 2006 and completed in fall 2007, with ceilings raised to more than 25 feet, columns removed and utility wells sunk in the floor.

Two new entrances would be built from parking lots, one on the north side of the East Wing and the other on the east end of the East Hall. At each of the new entrances, a system of escalators and moving sidewalks would take people through two new tunnels to a large new lobby near Freedom Hall's entrance.

Warren Sellers, whose Sellers Expositions manages the large International Lawn, Garden & Power Equipment Expo and several smaller shows annually at the fairgrounds, agreed with Workman that the East Wing is long overdue for renovation.

It "is not the kind of space that any trade show has an interest in," he said. "A true trade show needs Class A exhibit space."

The Mid-America Trucking Show, to be held at the fairgrounds this spring for the 34th consecutive year, draws about 70,000 people and has an economic impact that has been estimated at nearly $30 million, said Tim Young, the show's president.

Booked at the fairgrounds through 2010, the show intends to stay there indefinitely, Young said. But he said he fears the outdated East Wing could drive away some exhibitors, noting that the choice space is in the newer South Wing.

The South Wing "is the place to be," Young said. "It portrays you are successful in the industry. The East Wing is a negative."

State Rep. Scott Brinkman, R-Louisville, vice chairman of the Jefferson County legislative delegation, said the group ranked the East Wing renovation as "the very top" priority for 2005.

State Sen. Tim Shaughnessy, D-Louisville, said, "The fairgrounds is probably the easiest address in Jefferson County to build statewide support around," largely because of its agricultural mission.

And Greater Louisville Inc., the metro chamber of commerce, recently put the East Wing renovation on a list of 2005 legislative priorities.

Workman said support is strong, despite a new report by the Brookings Institution that contends that there is "a type of arms race" among U.S. cities to invest "massive amounts of capital in new convention" facilities, despite a flat convention industry.

Although that might be true on a national level, Workman said, Kentucky's fair board has identified a dozen or more trade shows or conventions that are "very, very interested" in coming to Louisville, if both the South Wing expansion and East Wing renovation are completed.

The two projects, in concert, have the potential to increase the annual economic impact of local trade-show and convention business from around $400 million a year to about $600 million over the next decade or so, Workman said.

LouisvilleS

January 26th, 2005, 07:49 PM

Norton Commons rises
'Village' shops yet to be decided

One of the attractions of the Norton Commons development in eastern Jefferson County is that residents can live within walking distance of a "village center" of offices and shops.

It will be at least a year, though, before the first settlers have anyplace to walk.

With 22 houses under construction and the first move-ins expected this spring, developers have begun taking a hard look at what the retail component will look like and what kind of stores it will contain.

"We will have residents moving in probably starting this April or May, so it's important for us to get the concept down and get the design," said Rod Henderson, sales and marketing director of co-developer Traditional Town LLC. "We are in the process of putting in a retail strategy that would include who we want to go after and who we'd prefer not to go after."

A lot of businesses have expressed interest in locating in the development, Henderson said, including doctors, grocers, liquor stores and flower shops.

The developers hope to have a final plan drawn up in a month or two.

"Our goal is that by May of this year we will have (building outlines) and square footage and cost factors so we'll be able to know, whether we sell the buildings or lease the space or sell the lots to developers, we'll have some more intelligent information to give them," Henderson said. "We hope to have structures up and have retailers and commercial users signed on by June 2006."

The developers also are looking for corporations interested in office space on the south edge of the complex, which would have exposure to Interstate 71.

Norton Commons is planned as a mixed-use, village-style community with residential, retail and office components. It's being developed by Traditional Town and the George W. Norton Jr. Trust.

The property had been in the Norton family since 1938. When Norton heir Mary Shands decided to develop it, she wanted to avoid the sprawl of the typical subdivision.

Under the village concept, streets are narrower and housing units vary in size and price and are closer together. There are parks and walkways.

The 2,880 units approved for Norton Commons will include small apartment buildings, single-family homes, condominiums, cottages and, possibly, duplexes, Henderson said, ranging in price from $200,000 to more than $1 million.

Prospect condominium owners Erin and Pete Williams will be among the first to move in. Their camelback home -- a partial two-story design unique to Louisville -- should be ready by May.

"We lived in Chicago for a while. We really liked being able to walk to places and not always have to get in the car," said Erin Williams, a teacher in Goshen. "But because of our work, downtown or even the Highlands wasn't convenient for us. We thought it was a unique opportunity to own a new home in a neighborhood that has a more traditional feel."

Williams said she understands they're taking a chance moving into a long-term development without knowing exactly what the retail component will be.

"We're hoping eventually there'll be coffee shops and things like that we can walk to, little boutiques," she said. "I don't think we expect to be able to do all of our major shopping there, but even just to be able to get out and walk to a few things or to walk to a park, that's nice."

The couple will be neighbors with Dennis and Danette Lockhart and their 15-year-old daughter, Jade.

Dennis Lockhart, a retired LG&E lineman, sees the Commons both as a lifestyle choice and an investment. He hopes his $335,000 base-price home will appreciate as quickly as those in nearby Asbury Park, where he missed a chance to buy early.

"I think it's a nice development to live the rest of my years or for resale," he said of the Commons. "Where else could you get a minimum $8,000 a year (return) on your money?"

Lockhart said he's comfortable with the master plan and assumes the retail component will include coffee shops, a barber and stores like the Summit down the road on Ky. 22.

Retired Thomas Industries executive Barr Schuler and wife JoAn are building a 4,000-square-foot, "quasi-Victorian" home in the second phase of the Commons, big enough to accommodate furnishings they've been living with on more intimate terms in a house in Anchorage.

"It seems like we're building a home for the furniture," said Barr Schuler, who likes the development's strict controls on pricing and home designs.

About 250 units are planned for a section of the property that lies in Oldham County.

"We have not formally submitted an application to Oldham County," Henderson said. "We have talked to planning and zoning folks and some school folks. We want to make sure we have all of our ducks in a row before we submit an application."

The 595-acre Commons opened its preview center this month and reported more than 60 visitors the first weekend. The development is on Ky. 1694 about a mile off Ky. 22, across from the entrance to Glen Oaks. Center hours are 11 a.m. to 5 p.m. Monday through Saturday and 1 p.m. to 5 p.m. Sunday.

JTS LOU

January 27th, 2005, 12:16 AM

Many new construction Crains on Dixie Hwy. in hope of Area revival as it starts to grow again. pop. at least 180,000 on, off, & around the area of Dixie Highway.

ANY MORE INFO ON S. LOUISVILLE (churchill area, southside drive, iroqouis, valley station, PRP, & Shively)

LouisvilleJake

January 27th, 2005, 12:59 AM

Well, Dixie Hwy is one of the roads targeted by the COOL project (Corridors Of Opportunity in Louisville)

IMO, Dixie is the messiest road in the metro. Worse than Clarksville, worse than Preston Hwy, et cetera.

It is my hope that over the next few years, the city will add some beautification to Dixie, clean up the area, and see a reinvention of the area as it begins to grow again.

Just wondering, but why was this moved? This really isn't about a certain project or construction in the city, so why was it moved from the main forum? I figured it would make more sense out there. Other cities in other regional forums have similar threads...just an observation.

Soulbrotha

January 27th, 2005, 01:22 AM

Louisville's homeless aid cut
Advocates ask why HUD cut share from $5.5 million to $2.4 million

HOMELESS ASSISTANCE AWARDS FROM HUD

By Chris Poynter
cpoynter@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal

Shocked by news of a $3.1 million federal funding cut, advocates for Louisville's homeless services scrambled yesterday to figure out why it happened and how it will affect local shelters and housing programs.

Last year, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development awarded Louisville's homeless programs $5.5 million. Yesterday, HUD announced that Louisville would receive $2.4 million. It had requested $5.8 million.

"It's stunning," said Maria Price, a spokeswoman for the Louisville Coalition for the Homeless.

In large part because of Louisville's funding cut, Kentucky as a whole also will receive less money -- $9.5 million this year compared with $14.2 million last year. Indiana, by contrast, saw its funding rise from $17.1 million last year to $19.4 million this year.

Krista Mills, a HUD spokeswoman based in Louisville, said officials were trying to determine why Kentucky received less money.

"I know that we took a hit actually statewide, and we are looking into it," Mills said. "We are not quite sure why that happened."

Louisville's homeless population grew to 11,032 in 2003, a 5.6 percent increase from 2002, according to the Coalition for the Homeless. No count was available for 2004.

Advocates for the homeless worry that yesterday's news could lead to program cuts, though they said it was too early to know the impact. Agencies and providers serving the homeless will sit down soon to discuss the cuts and how to deal with them, said Senlin Ward of the Coalition for the Homeless.

Louisville's grants declined even as the Bush administration announced what it called a record $1.4 billion spending on programs nationwide for homeless services.

HUD Secretary Alphonso Jackson announced that more than 4,400 homeless agencies and services across the nation would share the funding, up from $1.3 billion last year.

Ward said yesterday that Louisville has asked for $5.8 million in funding.

"What it means for us is that none of our new projects were funded," she said.

She said her office has contacted U.S. Sen. Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., and U.S. Rep. Anne Northup, R-3rd, to see if they could explain the cuts or help restore funding. McConnell couldn't be reached for comment yesterday.

"These are competitive grants, but I certainly plan to immediately contact the secretary of Housing and Urban Development to ask them tough questions," Northup said through her spokesman, Terry Carmack. "We will go to work with our homeless organizations, which have such excellent reputations, to do all we can to help."

Ward said it appeared that some Louisville programs that requested funding for three years were only authorized for one year.

Among the programs that didn't receive funding was Boy's Haven, an orphanage that has housed homeless boys since the 1950s.

Boys Haven requested $879,820 for two projects, including $473,991 to purchase an eight-unit apartment complex to house homeless and disabled youths, executive director Vern Rickert said yesterday.

"So we are not going to be able to go forward with that," he said.

Richert said Boys Haven had expected to receive at least some of the money, since one of the projects was listed as the No. 1 priority on Louisville's HUD grant application.

Richert said his nonprofit organization had a contract to buy the apartments, "so I'm going to have to let it go."

"It's a risk we took," he said. "We didn't really dream that this (cut) was going to be that severe."

Also not receiving funding were new programs for housing at Choices Inc. and Bellewood Presbyterian Home for Children, Ward said. Choices was seeking $95,520 and Bellewood $487,130.

Among agencies that did receive money yesterday were Volunteers of America of Ky.; the Society of St. Vincent de Paul; House of Ruth; The Salvation Army; Wellspring; and the Schizophrenia Foundation of Kentucky.

Staff writer Alex Davis contributed to this story.
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050126/NEWS01/501260456

LouisvilleS

January 27th, 2005, 01:54 AM

Just a couple of notes:

-Downtown construction is moving along nicely. It looks like the Marriott is almost finished and the Frazier Rehab Institute is looking pretty impressive. I saw some tape around a two-story building that's going to be razed for the new medical tower that was posted in this forum earlier. I also see lots of lofts and a few new commercial projects goin gup as well--too many to mention.

-Oakland Heights, with 740 single-family homes, is the largest subdivision approved since Norton Commons in 1997, and is now under construction off Bardstown Rd. in Fern Creek. This is a little less than a mile south of Little Spring Farm, a subdivsion also u/c hat will have 500 single-family homes and 220 patio homes when finished. Both subdisions have/will have homes starting at around $280,000 and going up to around $500,000.

-There are also some things going on with the Snyder Freeway around Beulah Church Rd. and Bardstown Rd. as well as Shelbyville Rd. and I-64. I'll try to find out more about them when I can.

JTS LOU

January 27th, 2005, 02:00 AM

JUST WONDERING?

What are your thoughts on Louisville Really begining to gain jobs and pick up population. To me it looks as if it is starting to grow more rapidly in all parts of town not just the east end but the sw, n, se, s, and (Southern Indiana- which is really booming right now in the clark/ floyd county area business wise)

LouisvilleJake

January 27th, 2005, 03:19 AM

JTS LOU

January 27th, 2005, 03:33 AM

Southern Indiana is undergoing a residential change not seen since the early days of suburbanization.

Communities like Sellersburg, Floyd's Knobs, Charlestown, and Utica are growing faster than they ever have. Eastern Clark County and north of New Albany seem to be the residential epicenters of growth today. These are areas are not just adding people, but becoming a much more wealthy demographic, hence the desire for new, upscale reatailing in Clarksville, the traditional retail center of Southern Indiana.

Many Louisvillians do not recognize the changes on the Indiana side, but retail operations are taking notice, hence the crazy pace of construction in Clarksville.

I see Jefferson County growing too, which is VERY encouraging. I love how growth is not just happening in eastern JeffCo, but now to the south and southwest.

I would LOVE to see Jefferson County go 800,000 or more. The question is, can we fit 100,000 more people in? Any ideas?

I believe with downtown on a pace it is going now and all the land and U/C home in Jefferson county I could possibly be seeing us reaching 800,000 in the future mabye around 2012-2018 if we continue to grow more rapidly than we are currently but the latest estimates show Jefferson County bein around 770,000 in 2025 so I guess we will have to wait and see what happens but I do believe we can reach the 800,000 mark before that or very soon after.

Louisville is a great place and I think is just now starting to expose itself and get out of this horrible bubble it has been in for about 30 years now with progression made in the 1990's and more in 2000's I see a very bright future and expecially with our "MAYOR FOR LIFE" Mr. Jerry Abramson doing a OK job in creating jobs but the city needs to look into Creating high paying jobs.

Also I would like to Know if anyone has any Info on the Oxmoor Farm off Of Shelbyville Rd. behind Oxmoor Center Mall. Rumor goes it could become and Upscale Shopping area with Offices(typical Suburban Development).

LouisvilleJake

January 27th, 2005, 04:06 AM

Oxmoor Farm has basically already been promised to retail developpers after the crazy old 100 year old granny dies off. I heard the family wants a small plot saved for historical reasons, but the younger generation of the family understands that most of the land needs to be used for something else.

It will become an upscale retailing/office center no doubt. The only real question is who will move in and when exactly it will all be completed.

LouisvilleJake

January 27th, 2005, 04:34 AM

Sellersburg, exit 9 on I-65, is applying for an Indiana Dept of Commerce grant to jump start their downtown renovations. They are looking to add beautifucation elements, new sidewalks, and preserve structures downtown. A new museum and new community center are also being proposed for the small town's downtown district.

Tom Lowe, the judge in Sellersburg, intends to line the courtroom with old photos of the town.

"I want to give people ownership in our community," Lowe said. "If it's theirs, they'll want to take care of it."

Lowe wonders what pictures snapped today would best reflect Sellersburg. Or say an artist was commissioned to capture the town on a single canvas.

"I wouldn't know where to direct him," Lowe said. "And that's sad."

Lowe was raised in Sellersburg by parents now retired to the sunny South who, on return trips, struggle to recognize the place. They count landmarks gone -- the former high school building, the Speed community center, a downtown theater. Their lament must be common. Reversing it has become a civic priority.

Sellersburg is out to be picturesque again, to be memorable. It is pursuing a $50,000 state grant to chart a path of revitalization. Maybe it will lead to the restoration of the few historic structures that remain.

A new community center makes sense, and perhaps a museum. The struggling downtown is overdue for a jolt.

"There's always a way -- we just have to find it," said Doug Reiter, president of the Town Council. "We're willing to put in the time and effort. We take this as a big responsibility."

Defining Sellersburg is the goal, but solidifying its identity is an uphill challenge. People in neighboring Hamburg and Speed, even some people in Clarksville are linked to Sellersburg by their mailing addresses and their children's schools, in pretty much every day-to-day way.

Though beloved, Silver Creek High is not Sellersburg High. And although the annual Sellersburg Celebrates festival is a smash hit -- this community at its best -- ironically, neither of the festival's prime sites is actually within the town's boundaries.

With its population of 6,000, Sellersburg is the size of municipalities classified as cities, places that have mayors and decidedly higher profiles. This town steadfastly opts instead for part-time citizen oversight -- Reiter manages a Home Depot -- and fewer than its share of headlines.

"This way, five people do the budget, five people spend it," Reiter said, referring to the five-member council. "People representing each part of the town are making decisions, and we like it."

Ken Alexander contends proudly that Sellersburg's people more than compensate for whatever is lacking. As bedroom communities go, this one is second to none.

"The peopleour statue that (would) sit in the middle of town -- our identity," said Alexander, a former councilman and now the town's utility administrator.

He notes how the Kiwanians fill Sellersburg with U.S. flags on holidays.

Reiter agrees the town need not be loaded with special places to be special. He calls it a "good American hometown" to which he moved a dozen years ago in large part simply because of its friendliness.

"We don't picture Sellersburg being a Louisville," Reiter said. "We picture Sellersburg with opportunities."

Some of the priorities of Reiter and the all-Republican council seem mundane -- compiling a list of Eagle Scouts for display, assigning a police officer to the schools, installing sidewalks. One or two others are political musts -- primarily, improving sewers without raising rates.

Judge Lowe grew up in a fairly self-contained Sellersburg and works in one deeply dependent on its neighbors. He senses the community is ready for another pendulum swing, to rely again on itself for more.

"People want that sense of belonging," he said. "They've had enough of anonymity."

Reiter likewise senses an urgency not to be satisfied with a nondescript Sellersburg. By the end of its four-year term, by the end of 2007, the Town Council promises change that might someday decorate courtroom walls.

Reiter said the progress will be eye-opening and the view should be distinctive.

"I'll speak for the board: We won't fail," he said. "We will not fail.

"We are too determined to let it fail."

gych

January 27th, 2005, 10:35 AM

raqoff25

January 27th, 2005, 06:02 PM

I agree! I mean it can't be that difficult to see that a downtown arena is really what Louisville needs. Freedom Hall is a piece and we need something new and updated. A renovation of Freedom Hall would just be a waste. But who are we to say what the city needs. I can't wait to see how Waterfront Park Place does. Anyone know when the first tenants will be moving in? Random question- I thought I heard somewhere about a huge new neighborhood development somewhere in eastern Jeff. country near the Gene Snyder. Anyone know about this??

LouisvilleJake

January 27th, 2005, 06:30 PM

^Norton Commons? http://www.nortoncommons.com/history.asp

Construction on NC recently started with the first few families moving in this summer. The whole project is a decade long ordeal.

JTS LOU

January 28th, 2005, 01:53 AM

Im pretty pissed that Jasonhouse keeps messing with the Louisville thread. PLEASE LEAVE US ALONE. Guys lets keep this thread up and running, and I am loving the stuff being churned out.

My BIGGEST concern for the future of this city is twofold. One is a downtown arena and the other is light rail. Light Rail is dragging its feet and the country rednecks in Frankfort and throughout the state would never approve of something so costly for the "big city."

But my main concern lies with a downtown arena. Someone needs to say, YOU IDIOTS. You want more convention space, SCREW THE FAIRGROUNDS. Build a multipurpose arena or retractable roof dome (like Indy) and use it for UL bball, NCAA regionals, trade shows and conventions, and big time concerts. Maybe even use it as leverage for pro sports (or not, no biggie) How dumb are these people.!!!!!!!! sorry i am frustrated :) Any thoughts on this idea for more convention space and other uses? How could we get this passed?

I swear If they would only put all us forumers from Louisville on the city council and one be in Frankfort this city would be really top notch. Frankfort needs to understand that Louisville is really the backbone of the whole state of Kentucky and If We improve it improves and if we go down The REDNECKS in the COUNTRY or goin straight down to. Light Rail would be soooooo cool for Louisville. The city would thrive off of it. The downtown arena and New Shopping venues downtown would also be great, the STATE!!!!!!! needs to use their Pikeville, Richmond, Ashland, Owensboro, Paducah, Bowling Green, Somerset, Covington, and Hopkinsville minds and Think of Louisville the "BIG CITY" lol, and also Lexington but Louisville needs to get the state to recognize them. I have also heard of many conventions wanting to come to Louisville in the future with our new added hotel rooms and new convention space by 2006. Any Replies on my subjects and if you dont agree feel free to critizize.

Cardpooch

January 28th, 2005, 03:00 AM

I'm glad this thread is back up...

There is a thread on the SE forum regarding the death of Philip Johnson. He deserves our respect for designing Aegon Center along with numerous other landmark towers around the country.

Check out this thread if you haven't already.

philip Johnson (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=173968)

I'll post some of my own Louisville development comments later....

LouisvilleJake

January 28th, 2005, 03:45 AM

A few years ago I felt the city had other things to concern itself with before it turned it's attention to a new DT arena. Earlier I felt a new convention center hotel, Fourth Street revitalization, and riverfront reclamation should be center stage before we built a new arena.

Well, all three of those have now happened. A new arena should be front and center on the agenda for downtown Louisville. Downtown needs to make the next big step towards being a top tier downtown nationally. I am not concerned with attracting an NBA franchise to Louisville, what I am concerned with is getting big concerts into town, getting major sports events, such as the NCAA tournament, and helping continue our superiority in the convention facilities department. I have to slightly disagree with Gych though, I feel we should also be expanding our KFEC and renovating it to bring it in line with what conventions want - Class A space.

SChristopher

January 28th, 2005, 04:36 AM

Hamilton County (Cincinnati) is only slightly larger than Jefferson county and has had a peak population from 900k-1mil (cant remember) and now it is at 845k. I think NO DOUBT with all the area around 265 (Gene Snyder) and the new suburban growth and the condos downtown and the new condos that no doubt will pop up elsewhere and even with the new subdivisions in the SW (Money and reviatlization in the west end I believe is very within reach as well now that the merger has taken place I doubt that a city of 720 will allow it to look like it does at this moment and with the new income there is no reason for it) that 800k will be achieved WAY before 2025, Charlotte is you know pretty much on the same tier as Louisville and has gained 57k in the last three years. There is no telling what companies or technological advanced firms Louisville will land, but once it is realized I believe it has the same growth potential as Charlotte. PLUS as more people around Kentucky grow up to their teens etc (like indiana and indianapolis) while still being most likely loyal to kentucky (as many southern people are loyal to their own states) they will want to move to the big city. I know countless people in Lexington that say they will move to Louisville when they are out of High School. And as the revitalization around UofL happens and it joins the big east this year it will draw even more people to the school. I really hope for some arena talks and an NBA team and Ernie Fletcher is pushing for pro sports in KY and we all know it wont be in Lexington and most likely not Covington. I just hope KC's arena doesnt appear more attractive or whatever because now really isnt a good time for NBA...Pro sports could REALLY help out the city image wise and financially, considering an arena doesnt break it. If only someone would have payed attn back when they were up for a team...BLAST. With 4th street live being new and rapidly expanding up 4th street eating up crap and wig shops and bringing in new attractions and condos, we are more than likely going to see one of the most party oriented unique downtowns, along with the already established MOST UNIQUE IN REGION bar none (bardstown road) entertainment/shopping/living district, I think that is the most walkable area in the entire tristate and being connected to downtown directly via free trolly bus is awesome (they need a electric trolly...but I really dont think itd fit on the narrow streets and hey why complain, ITS FREE lol. More to come...when I type alot in one box on SSC for some reason my type gets lagged.

SChristopher

January 28th, 2005, 04:45 AM

In Response To Lou Jake : I would like to see oxmoor farm become a nice 8-18 story office development with low-midrise components, most likely this will not happen though because who is going to move there. if only it would have been availabel 2 years ago the new citibank office employing 1600 people could have been on this land with direct access to the Watterson insted of further straining I-64 at Blankenbaker Pkwy as well as papa johns and whom-ever else. I do think that there needs to be more retail development in Louisville, however not here because we already rediculously have 2 malls right next to eachother...I really hope with the new ownership SOMETHING good happens here with new tenants. No doubt Louisville will get some good new chain restaurants all over...good for some and bad for others, I like to have something amiliar every once in awhile :). Anyone know if PF changs is still delayed? As the largest city in KY and now population wise one of the largest cities in the US no doubt people will start to notice and set up shop and set up residence on the cheap yet scenic and eventful land. I really hope stuff comes together with more condos and pro sports. Louisville was ahead of Nashville for so long in everything and I hope now that Nashville is getting alot of transformations (and pro sports :)) Louisville will take notice and pull ahead once more.

SChristopher

January 28th, 2005, 04:52 AM

Im pretty pissed that Jasonhouse keeps messing with the Louisville thread. PLEASE LEAVE US ALONE. Guys lets keep this thread up and running, and I am loving the stuff being churned out.

My BIGGEST concern for the future of this city is twofold. One is a downtown arena and the other is light rail. Light Rail is dragging its feet and the country rednecks in Frankfort and throughout the state would never approve of something so costly for the "big city."

Hey Gych I know we havnt always seen eye to eye, but I completely agree with everything stated right there lol. For one the arena is key. Light rail, at Louisvilles size can be held off a while but I hope to see it on the ballot soon seeing as it is dense and has alot of users of public transit. The highlands and surrounding areas also sees a very high concentration of transit minded and environmentally conscious people. The arena and a team is what is really a key point to put it on the map like I said before...you dont need all pro teams but one REALLY helps put it in focus for retail, companies and people all over.

Also, while I really do respect Jasonhouse and his moderating style we repeatedly see threads for Charlotte and all of north carolina (and other cities) that have to do with discussion and generally turn into arguments and non-informative discussion in the SE section that are left open. My only hope is that people realize this is in here, and its up to us to keep it visible and active. And I had spent alot of time updating the old thread and I really hope that this one doesnt get deleted as well.

SChristopher

January 28th, 2005, 05:00 AM

Louisville has a TON of convention space and I have read many articles that the Marriott downtown and the Marriott execs have drawn ALOT of business to the city, and it is booked solid for quite a while.

K I am done for now but post back after you read my stuff, sorry for posting so much but....Louisville is really one of my favorite cities. I know I ragged on it alot when I lived there and I really didnt like it. Now being in Cincinnati, I feel that I would much rather be in Louisville, however I am a big spender (shopping) and I love pro sports. I am waiting to see what Lou does before I move back...because when I was there it was in diar need of some help.

JTS LOU

January 28th, 2005, 10:37 PM

LouisvilleJake

January 29th, 2005, 09:10 AM

JTS LOU

January 29th, 2005, 04:50 PM

I got a bit of good news today. My mother is the manager of a store at Oxmoor Center and she was talking with some of the mall management and apparently with General Growth now in control they have enough retailers lined up to have Oxmoor 100 percent occupied before Holiday 2005. General Growth considers Louisville to be a highly underserved market and is linking lease renewals of stores in other cities with a new stores in Louisville. Since they have such size and clout they are able to force companies to look at markets that may have been ignored by them previously.

Thats really cool. I would think that the Mall St. Matthews will be getting a new anchor store too soon. That would be great to get all the vancant space gone at Oxmoor Center b/c its a really Upscale Mall or it has an Upscale feel to it besides the Sears.

LouisvilleS

January 30th, 2005, 12:35 AM

I think Sears is heading in the right direction, as they've rid their stores of shopping carts. LOL

A42251

January 30th, 2005, 06:03 AM

I got a bit of good news today. My mother is the manager of a store at Oxmoor Center and she was talking with some of the mall management and apparently with General Growth now in control they have enough retailers lined up to have Oxmoor 100 percent occupied before Holiday 2005. General Growth considers Louisville to be a highly underserved market and is linking lease renewals of stores in other cities with a new stores in Louisville. Since they have such size and clout they are able to force companies to look at markets that may have been ignored by them previously.

Does this mean that all of that blank space on second floor will be occupied?

LouisvilleS

January 30th, 2005, 06:24 AM

Does this mean that all of that blank space on second floor will be occupied?

This might explain why the escalators to the second level in front of Dick's/Galyan's have been closed for the past couple of days. But I really hope that something nice goes on the second floor, as well as in those annoying vacant spots in the Von Maur wing. I'm almost 95% certain that L'Occitane will open a store in Oxmoor sometime this year because I was told by the manager at the Twelve Oaks Mall store in Novi, MI, that they were opening in Oxmoor before Christmas (although she told me Christmas '04). It's nothing terribly big, as it's just a small boutique (usually around 500 sf), but it's a start.
I think that stores like Aldo Shoes, Apple Computers, BCBG, Fossil, M·A·C, Montblanc, Restoration Hardware, Sephora, Steve Madden, Tommy Bahama, United Colors of Benetton, and Z Gallerie would be eligible candidates for expansion into the Louisville market, be it in Oxmoor, St. Matthews, or The Summit, judging by the locations of their other stores as well as their development of new stores.

SChristopher

January 30th, 2005, 06:51 AM

That is good news about Oxmoor, General Growth owns Kenwood Mall in Cincinnati, I imagine it will have a similar tenant base ex: Kenneth Cole Apple etc, minus the 80's look of kenwood ;). Uhh one qualm many companies have in smaller markets is locating their stores outside an upscale environ. Putting their store in a mall with a sears etc may be a conflict of interest. Something needs to be done about the mixture in Louisville. Places with smaller populations by a small to larger margin even like Raleigh and Tulsa have a SUBSTANTIAL amount of upscale shopping, and those arent places that have a better rep than Louisville either so that argument is not really viable. The reason Louisville has been ignored, I think, is the retard tenant mixes and competitions in the malls that up until recently werent really owned by foward thinking companies or companies without significant connections.

jase8

January 30th, 2005, 08:34 AM

The reason Louisville has been ignored, I think, is the retard tenant mixes and competitions in the malls that up until recently werent really owned by foward thinking companies or companies without significant connections.

I completely agree with this. When the Summit was coming about several years ago, i really expected it to be much more upscale. I expected Sephora instead of Ulta (cheap knockoff of Sephora imo), Kenneth Cole instead of Old Navy, a Virgin Mega store instead of whatever that crappy music store that is there now, and Steve Madden or something in place of the Rack Room discount stores.
The area is one of the most affluent in the city, and the setting is perfect for high-end boutiques. I think they really screwed up by placing crappy stores there.
I think the mall that attracts the high-end national department store first, will win the high-end stores.

SChristopher

January 30th, 2005, 09:17 AM

I piss on the Summit...lets take all the low end stores of Mall St. Matthews and put them out in the snow. And the music store was Coconuts an overpriced no-name store I have only seen in Ky and In so far, needless to say it closed. Blah, it doesnt even have any real clothing stores. I HATE seeing grown men and women in Abercrombie, but in Louisville that is designer LOL.

LouisvilleS

January 30th, 2005, 09:27 AM

I agree, jase. I was expecting to see a much wider variety of stores when I waltzed into The Summit on its opening day, but nope...it was just MSM and Oxmoor Center with the parking in the middle. The thing is, it's really sad that Louisville was dealt this unfortunate hand of cards, figuratively speaking, as far as shopping goes...
When it opened, MSM stole the reign as the premier shopping destination from Fourth Street in 1962 and stayed that way until Oxmoor opened friggin right next door in 1971. Both were in competition with each other, and Oxmoor won out in the '80s and '90s until the late '90s when Rouse purchased MSM and renovated it and made it the dominant regional shopping center. Oxmoor was still owned by some local backwater company that could hardly keep up with Rouse (MSM's owners) and, thus fell behind. Oxmoor's owners wanted tenants to sign rediculous leases (they wanted Saks to sign a 25-year lease with the mall and that's why Von Maur landed the spot in the old Jacobson's place). The Summit was built by a company headquartered in Birmingham and built The Summit Birmingham. While it was a generous thing for them to build one here, they couldn't possibly build a better shopping center in a city that isn't their home, thus, we got the shittier of The Summits (I mean, come on, if one of us Louisvillians was a developer, we wouldn't want to build a better mall in Birmingham than we would here).
Only now are people FINALLY starting to realize what a great market they've been missing out on, now that General Growth has come to simplify things.

JTS LOU

January 31st, 2005, 12:03 AM

I hope Louisville lands some high end stores though. Mabye Jessica Simpson will be satisfied if we get a Saks or one of her stores she likes b/c and I Quote her saying "great city, no shopping".

gych

February 1st, 2005, 09:50 AM

Hey I was wondering If anyone would mabye be interested in starting a thread on the SW area of Louisville (Valley, PRP) b/c I rode around their with my friends the other day and found some really big homes in neighborhoods that were priced from 350,000-650,000 dollars.
The biggest I saw was on Arnoldtown Rd. and my friend used to live their and he sold it for around 2.1 million.
And I think the area of town deserves recognition. ANY QUESTIONS?CONCERNS?CRITISIZMES?

^^^ Yeah start it.

As a minor note, check your usage of "their." You should have used "there" when you said "around their" and "used to live their." Ive seen punk forumers from NYC, etc, pick on ppl like you as dumb southerners. So just a heads up, bc I am sure it was a typo. Obv we abbreviate (i just did) and have typos, but that seemed to stand out.

Schris--I will only say this. Give Louisville your saks and the Reds and this town kicks the living shit out of Cincy. Bar None. Downtown cincy has now been surpassed by the ville for nightlife (and more nice lofts and less ghetto-ness) and I agree that the Highlands are unmatched in the Midwest outside of Chicago. Hell, i'll even throw in Clifton/Crescent Hill as one of the best hoods in the Midwest. With Frankfort ave as the commercial corridor, we are seening towns of galleries and lofts open up. I think those Clifton lofts by all the restaurants will be badass. Oh and I LOVE Volare of Chicago restaurant. The one in Chicago is awesome too!

LouisvilleS

February 1st, 2005, 07:57 PM

Business First of Louisville

From the January 31, 2005 print edition

Proposed Brownsboro retail center is $12.3 million investment

John R. Karman III
Business First Staff Writer

By their own admission, Rick Pippin and Cliff Travis are novice commercial real estate developers, but that doesn't mean they're starting small.

For their first project, the two men are proposing a two-story, 111,000-square-foot upscale retail center in eastern Jefferson County on Kentucky 22, between the Gene Snyder Freeway and Chamberlain Lane.

Pending approval by Louisville Metro Planning & Design Services, the center will be built on the site of the former Stan Humphries Nursery & Garden Center Inc. and adjoining parcels.

The developers, who have not yet presented their proposal to the planning commission, hope to break ground on their project in late spring or early summer and have space available for the first tenants before the end of the year. They estimate the total development cost at $9.3 million.

A general contractor has not yet been selected for the project. Louisville's Bayus-Evola Architects is handling the design work. Gresham, Smith and Partners is the engineering firm.

Through a holding company called Piptra LLC, Pippin and Travis paid $3 million to buy three parcels of land totaling 8.4 acres to build their center, according to information found on the Jefferson County Clerk's Web site.

Sellers were listed as Stan Humphries, Jere Kiesel and Brian Andrew Stahlman.

The transactions were financed by Bullitt County Bank, the partners said.

Architecture will pay homage to downtown
The as-yet-unnamed shopping center would have 64,000 square feet of available retail space on the first floor. The second floor would provide 47,000 square feet of office space, with the developers targeting medical and legal office users as the primary occupants. There would be 369 parking spaces.

The L-shaped center would have space for a 25,000-square-foot anchor tenant, possibly a specialty grocer, according to the developers. The design calls for 20 individual storefronts flanking the anchor, with facades inspired by architecture prevalent along Main Street in downtown Louisville.

Desired tenants include users such as restaurants, florists, beauty shops and dry cleaners. No leases have been signed to date, but there already have been a good number of inquiries, the developers said.

"We've been approached by any number of people," said Travis, an attorney and principal with the law firm Travis & Herbert Attorneys PLLC. "It sure does look like there's a lot of interest."

Many developments nearby
With its location directly south of Old Brownsboro Crossing, a 114-acre retail, office and medical complex already under construction, the proposed center would join an area that has exploded with development in the past five years.

Nearby is The Summit, a massive shopping complex that includes stores such as Banana Republic and Barnes & Noble Inc. booksellers. Also nearby is Norton Commons, a 600-acre residential and commercial project being developed off Chamberlain Lane near Wolf Pen Branch Road.

West of the site where Travis and Pippin are proposing their development is Avish Gardens shopping center, a 124,000-square-foot complex anchored by a 60,000-square-foot Kroger store.

Still, Travis and Pippin expect the area to continue to grow. They see their center serving as a complement to Old Brownsboro Crossing, where Norton Healthcare Inc. is investing $30 million for a medical office building and a diagnostic center.

"Across the street from us is going to be a destination center," Travis said of Old Brownsboro Crossing. "What ours really is is neighborhood services ... that would serve the people who live in that community."

Ken Payne, president and CEO of Main Street Realty Inc., the lead developer of Old Brownsboro Crossing, could not be reached for comment.

Dan Huneke, president of Dancor Commercial Properties LLC and one of the owners of Avish Gardens, said he doesn't expect Travis and Pippin's development to have a negative impact on his shopping center because of the "natural barrier" created by the exit ramp from the freeway. "Anything that creates more commercial activity is welcome, as far as I'm concerned," he said. "The growth out there has been incredible."

Center will have plaza areas, clock tower
Pippin, an owner and developer of car-wash facilities, and Travis formed Piptra LLC to acquire property and build their shopping center. Pippin is a 50-percent partner in the venture. Travis and his family members make up the other 50 percent through a venture called Travis Associates LLC.

The associates are Travis' wife, Paula, director of nursing at Central State Hospital; his son, David, an attorney with his law firm; and his daughter, Lyn, a fifth-grade teacher at Lowe Elementary School.

Pippin and Travis said their first major commercial development will not be inexpensive to create. The project calls for significant landscaping, plaza areas, extra-wide sidewalks and a clock tower. "You're not going to drive into this thing onto this giant bed of asphalt," Travis explained. "You're going to see a real well-planned, thought-out place that is an asset for the neighborhood."

Although they are new to the development game, the partners are surrounding themselves with experienced professionals to ease their introduction to commercial construction, said Pippin, who is handling leasing for the center. "We wouldn't know where to start," he added. "I find it to be exciting. It's an adrenaline rush."

Contact the writer via e-mail at JKARMAN@BIZJOURNALS.COM.

LouisvilleS

February 1st, 2005, 08:12 PM

Just wishful thinking, but with this shopping center, I predict, well... hope, it gets like 5-7 national, upscale chains, and the rest to be local stores. I'm thinking/hoping something along the lines of La Encantada in Tucson: http://laencantadashoppingcenter.westcor.com/controller/site/directory

JTS LOU

February 2nd, 2005, 02:22 AM

There are really quite a few things going on right now that I could see taking Jeff county up another 8,000 people for this year if not even more. What do you all think?

Also thank you gych for the grammer correction! lol

brandnew

February 2nd, 2005, 02:56 AM

with all of the conventions louisville brings in im suprised that louisville doesn't have better shopping.

card04

February 2nd, 2005, 05:53 AM

I drove around the gene snyder for the first time in a few months and seen a lot of stuff that wasn't there from before. Sprawl, but hell as long as it's within Jefferson County Kentucky, I don't mind. As far as growing 8000, for 2004 for yes I could see that as being possible. Can anybody tell me where to get the most recent population totals for Louisville?
As far as the Oxmoor Farm is concerned I hope that whatever they build is somewhat unique, I don't know is highrises would really fit the area that well. I'd like to see a shopping center with an old mainstreet type feel to it that is very pedestrian friendly, with maybe some lakes and park land worked in. Kinda like the Summit but on a different level, with no parking lot in the middle, and some stores/restaurants that are actually new to the area. Perhaps they could build a large fountain as the centerpiece.

lou-villian

February 2nd, 2005, 10:00 AM

Wassup guys I have been out of the loop on things going on in the ville, I have been out of town for 2 months for business. I'm definitly happy to see this thread alive and well again. Like you Card04 as soon as I came back I went to the movies at the Cinema Deluxe on preston and just out of boredom I took a spin around the Gene. Its funny how you can be gone for awhile come back and just see changes. They already have office complexes built that I haven't seen since last time I was home. That is crazy it was so much crap they were building on the gene its crazy(especially between 42 and old henry rd) but I didn't even know they had that much development going on out in the Okolona/Hillview area. Cribs were popping up everywhere and of course you classic suburban strip mall. Like I said I've been out of the loop so does anybody know of any new developments with the airport area? Technology park in the south end? I heard Junior Bridgeman was bring 18 chilli's to Kentucky, that may not be big news but I will show any business man love who brings back to his community. With his Wendy's franchises and other ventures he has done alot of for UofL and the city. I know I need to just get caught up on the happenings I know probably some development news took place during the 2 months I was gone. So if anybody can drop some links I would appreciate it.

gych

February 2nd, 2005, 10:29 AM

say what u want about chilis, but crap chains like that would make a killing in PRP and in the center of the city , say around poplar level. Id like to someone push the envelope and build a chilis and olive garden in the PRP area complete with a strip center that has a starbucks and blockbuster. That reas is in DIRE need of something like that, and would be "upscale" for out there.

As for retail, I am worried we will never have any downtown with all this suburban dev. Its going stron in the south, east, and now north sides in IN. But downtown cant get one measly retail store. Is there a way the mayor could discourage these suburban center and encourage UNIQUE stores to the city center? Maybe a Crate and Barrel and Urban Outfitters to begin with? Cheesecake would make sense here too!

SChristopher

February 2nd, 2005, 12:22 PM

Chessecake Factory will never go downtown....Mortons is cool tho for now...and other downtown restaurants are already sufficient. Louisville has a huge population that is 'fit' for Urban Outfitters. They need one. Bloomington Indiana has one for gad sakes.

gych

February 2nd, 2005, 01:20 PM

I wanted to discuss this mornings paper, specifically many articles posted in the neighborhoods section. Why are we allowing all these condos in the distant exurbs! Bring them downtown, or at least to the city (and I mean the REAL old city of louisville)

A42251

February 2nd, 2005, 07:16 PM

^^^ Yeah start it.

As a minor note, check your usage of "their." You should have used "there" when you said "around their" and "used to live their." Ive seen punk forumers from NYC, etc, pick on ppl like you as dumb southerners. So just a heads up, bc I am sure it was a typo. Obv we abbreviate (i just did) and have typos, but that seemed to stand out.

Schris--I will only say this. Give Louisville your saks and the Reds and this town kicks the living shit out of Cincy. Bar None. Downtown cincy has now been surpassed by the ville for nightlife (and more nice lofts and less ghetto-ness) and I agree that the Highlands are unmatched in the Midwest outside of Chicago. Hell, i'll even throw in Clifton/Crescent Hill as one of the best hoods in the Midwest. With Frankfort ave as the commercial corridor, we are seening towns of galleries and lofts open up. I think those Clifton lofts by all the restaurants will be badass. Oh and I LOVE Volare of Chicago restaurant. The one in Chicago is awesome too!

You need to get real if you think that Louisville would "kick the shit" out of Cincy if only we had their Saks and the Reds. Cincy has a densely built downtown similar to that of a northeastern city, with much, much fewer parking lots than downtown Louisville. With the exception of 4th Street Live, pretty much all of Cincy feels more urban than all of Louisville.

SChristopher

February 2nd, 2005, 11:00 PM

I am satisfied with the condo growth downtown when I look at LCA-Inc, but I do wonder about some of the places they decide to put these condos .. like poplar level or even way out off smyrna road in that new development. About the Cincinnati thing, their downtown is gourgeous, I thought I was ever since I was small, and I love the densely packed old buildings. For now though alot of them are empty and there really is not much to do after dark. I got mugged for four dollars with a kitchen knife at the beginning of the week LOL at 8pm. They both have their downfalls, but if right now today there was NBA and some good shopping in downtown Lou I think it would be the more livable place.

I am still waiting to hear what is going in the bottom of those japanese looking buildings, the twin towers, I dont know what they are called, but they are supposed to have retail. I think by 2006 we should see some things on 4th street as far as shopping etc and less wig shopping.

JTS LOU

February 2nd, 2005, 11:08 PM

Yea the PRP is in definite need for a Starbucks so people can come and just sit and chill out. A few more restaurants would be nice to for out there. Also many teens go to all the other mall for American Eagle Outfitters, ect... and I think something like that could work in Dixie Manor or a new Mall type development on Greenbelt Expwy.

LouisvilleS

February 2nd, 2005, 11:26 PM

Starbucks is opening at least 10 more stores in the Louisville area by 2006...

SChristopher

February 2nd, 2005, 11:27 PM

JTS LOU

February 3rd, 2005, 12:49 AM

I have heard that Dixie Manor will under go some extreme renovations. I think that shopping center is kinda cool looking. The greenbelt is a little out of the way but in terms of growth it probably would be a good place for shopping and a masterplanned community. There is a place in PRP or Shively, I think its called the Dixie Cup haha, but it is a pretty quaint sit down coffee place, very neato indeed. They also have a neighborhood coilition over there that is lobbying to get a major bookstore chain over there. They need one...I cant believe how many bookstores are on the east end...then nothing in the south or west or anything. I guess the one downtown is a little closer to some in the inner city but still, Louisville needs to be more literate LOL.

PRP has another coffe shop off West Pages Lane that is open and pretty neat but the Dixie Cup has just went out of business but the area is in dyer need of a bookstore if they want me in the area. I love it out their though as you can tell. lol. I like how the traffic is heavy but not at a complete standstill allday like out on Hourstbourne Ln/I-64/Brownsboro Rd./Shelbyville Rd. They Said that they may have to make on and off ramps for Shelbyville/Hourstbourne Intersection in the next 10 years b/c it is already over capacity.

SChristopher

February 3rd, 2005, 12:52 AM

There is alot more topographical scenery over there. I really like it too, they just let it get a little squatty.

gych

February 3rd, 2005, 04:11 AM

schris whats the most underserved area of cincy like PRP and valley station in the ville? Oh and by the way, yes downtown Louisville is nicer and safer than cincy. An arena and major shopping would be icing on the cake. (although I agree cincy has a cooler, more old school skyline. But a lotta that ground level stuff is VACANT!!!) I find that saks in downtown cincy to be out of place...my friend there told me the city practically begs to keep them there. I think theyd do better up by Hamilton IMO or Kenwood.

card04

February 3rd, 2005, 07:14 AM

The south west region of Louisville has some really good potential, with some investment into that area it would be really nice. Not only does that area have some of the best river front views in the city( try waling on the levee trail, the knobs across the river are awesome), also the Windsor Forest Neighborhood that;s on a hill has some great views of Dixie down below,theres a lot of resdential development in that area. I think that Dixie Hwy could use some kind of development like the Summit to bring some much needed retail to the area. I live in this area but spend most of my time elsewhere because there is simply nothing to do around here. The good thing about developing this area is that there is the river to act as a natural barrier to control sprawl, if developers played thier cards right there could be some pretty dense development in that area. One thing that would need to be done is to bring some of the development on to the Cane Run Road/ Greenbelt area to sort of ease up traffic on dixie. Traffic does get pretty bad out there from about 3-7.

gych

February 3rd, 2005, 12:07 PM

info on PFchangs amd CF

http://www.myspeakerscorner.com/forum/index.phtml?fn=66

In short, PF is having utility troubles on the lcation. The construction of the buildng should start late spring and it is not know when it will be finished...Im guesing by next Christmas.

FYI this website has tons of updates on shit like this from local managers and restauranters in the know.

SChristopher

February 3rd, 2005, 12:14 PM

Hamilton is gross, in my opinion anyways. LOL Kenwood would be cool for Saks, but I dont know, I think a place where shopping doesnt exist right now would be cool for Saks, because I cant name one place in Cincy where they would fit in. Everything is pretty mediocre. It seems like Downtown Cincinnati is out of place for any retail as I would guess more people live in immediate downtown Louisville, and happier too. Saks has been paid to stay. They wanted to leave around 2002 I believe and the city begged them to stay and paid for renovations and a new lease. Cincinnati has a beautiful skyline, but it doesnt sing and dance for me. What I mean is what is a great skyline, if it doesnt benefit you. Louisville has a taller (less vacant) skyline anyways. I am walking by a building, beautiful, but its a 5 second rush (most buildings in cincy are NOT architectually pleasing anyways) lol. yes alot of stuff is vacant and alot of stuff is real hideous. Also downtown Cincy is encased in a ghetto that the proijects on shelby or clarksdale could never be. DT Louisville definatly has a gain with at least having their nice restaurants and even YES fridays and footlocker and EB. Because I believe towerplace has about 1 year left tops.

SChristopher

February 3rd, 2005, 12:17 PM

JTS LOU

February 3rd, 2005, 01:52 PM

As far as underserved areas in Cincy I wouldnt say there is any. Even areas I find to be awful have world market, borders/b&n, best but or even malls whatever. Probably because Cincinnati is 'on the map'. But I mean thats what I always noticed about here and there (more chains and well dispersed even in areas you would expect to be blighted). However, someone had to come here and flood the ghetto with retail and the underserved areas and just as it happened here it will happen there. HONESTLY after moving here, PRP isnt crap (itd be a medium neighborhood here/stl etc). Everyone in Louisville including me the whole time I was there said how awful PRP was, but they dont even KNOW ,lol, how bad it gets. I go to Louisville once a week about because I still have my house there and I see it as a newer growing more vibrant city than anything north of it.

PRP isnt crap AT ALL but the only thing is it has no shopping and Dixie Hwy. is very cluttered. It has some OK things and restaurants and the Golds Gym but people are just starting to step up. The Sears will be opening sometime in the near future(by this year) and mabye some other things will follow who knows. I know If I move back I dont want to drive 20 miles and 40 minutes to go to Starbucks or the Bookstore. Oh and another thing.. I dont know why dillards or JcPenney didnt try to move into all the vacant space that Dixie Manor had it would have really benifited I think.

gych

February 3rd, 2005, 03:25 PM

you are right scchris, ive noticed what u say in cincy, and even indy and columbus. IE they have more areas of repeating "retail and chain hubs" around their beltways.

i agree louiville has that newer, cleaner, safer feel compared to cincy. Yet it also has kick ass hoods that are historic (as does cincy).

But I think that the south suburbs are coming into their own meaning the Fern Creek, Highview, and Mount Washington/ Shepherdsville areas. S. Indiana is picking up the pace and adding more bookstores and coffee shops. But the Prp/Shively/Cane Run area is still lagging. I dont get it though, there are hordes of 500k homes (which is like million dollar homes in most cities bc its so cheap here) around iroquois, and east pages lane. I think the semi-upscale retailers are just now noticing the demographic change in S. Indiana. My guess is they will get Starbucks, Borders, and best Buy in those new developments. I think the SW burbs are still 5 years behind, though. But theyll get their respect soon. The merger is getting us more recognition. The way I see it, there should be about 6 hubs of these typical chains circulating around I265. IE you already have it in the NE burbs, the E, and the SE (preston). But we need more in the S amd especially SW burbs along with the expansion of the Indiana market, which IMO can support the Clarksville area, new Jeff development, and more upscalish Anchoarge, KY type atmosphere in the knobs of IN. Any thoughts?

IMO the city shouldnt give a damn about anywhere E of 65. It is self sustainable. They need to get the old commercial thrufares like Poplar, Newburg, dixie, outer loop, and even cane run back up to par. At the same time, they should focus on downtown and growing crime in areas like germantown and ld louisville. I am worried that the downtown gentrification will push the trash into these areas.

LouisvilleJake

February 3rd, 2005, 11:52 PM

JTS LOU

February 4th, 2005, 01:44 AM

I was looking at the Norton Commons website at www.nortoncommons.com and it looks really cool for suburb type development.

gych

February 4th, 2005, 02:09 AM

Well, first I'll jump into the retail discussion a bit.

Gych was making some predictions for Clarksville retail. Well, a Best Buy, Borders, Bed, Bath, and Beyond, Panera Bread, Starbuck's, new Super Target (brick facaded), new Lowe's (brick facaded like the store near Clay Terrace in Carmel), Olive Garden have all already been anounced for Veteran's Parkway.

Today the Clarksville Town Council finalized it plans to repave/beautify the second part of Lewis & Clark Parkway, and to add a road with a "turnabout" to River Falls from Veterans. Lewis & Clark is to be totally finished from 65 to Brown Stations Way before Holiday 2005. New sidewalks on both sides, added lanes, tress, you get the idea. They're hoping this will lead to stabilization of Lewis & Clark retail and bring some store back to the traditional road.

The Clarksville of one year from today will be almost a new town with all that is being built and changed. And when they build the new Jeffersonville Town Center, it will be completely crazy.

Now, I had been wondering when they were going to start Cathedral Commons downtown, and there was an update in Louisville Business Journal today:

Christ Church Cathedral creating downtown apartments
A downtown church plans to convert a historic property near the Louisville Medical Center into a mixed-use development with 40 affordable-housing units as well as retail and office space.

The $5.3 million project, which is being called Cathedral Commons, is being developed by Christ Church Cathedral on South Second Street. The development will be on the 400 block of South Second Street, where the former Miller Cafeteria once stood.

The plan calls for restoration of the Howard-Hardy House, which is owned by the church. The building is on the National Register of Historic Places that is "one of only two surviving pre-1840 residences in downtown Louisville," according to a news release.

The Howard-Hardy House will be converted into 4,500 square feet of office space.

Cathedral Commons also will consist of a new building with 40 apartments and about 3,000 square feet of ground-floor retail space. The building will be located on what now is a parking lot adjacent to the cathedral.

The one- and two-bedroom apartments will rent for $500 to $600 per month and be marketed to downtown employees, as well as staff and clients of Norton Healthcare Inc., Prodigal Ministries, Kentucky Refugee Ministries and Wellspring, organizations that "have had longtime connections to the mission and ministry of the cathedral," the release said.

The construction team for the project includes: Brasch-Barry General Contractors, architecture firm John Milner Associates, engineering firms Tetra-Tech and Kerr-Greulich Inc. and surveyor Cassidy Associates.

The project is being financed with a $500,000 federal Community Development Block Grant being provided through the Louisville Metro Department of Housing and Community Development as well as state and federal tax credits. National City Bank of Kentucky and the National City Bank of Kentucky Community Development Association will provide construction financing and equity participation in the project, the release said.

Glad to hear that for Clarksville. As a primary trade area of about 250k people, it is much larger than say, Bloomington, IN (70-100k), but Bloomington has all of the aformentioned stores. Its about time someone respected S. Indiana for what it is: a viable suburb of Louisville whose residents often live closer to Downtown Louisville than those in the KY suburbs. These people shouldt have to drive 30-40 minutes to Louisville suburbs just to go to a large bookstore. I am happy to see chain developments in these areas. We need chain development on the S, and SW side now. Sheperdsville is picing it up, but PRP/Shively /Valley cant get over the hump. This area needs a power center development exactly like they are doing on Veterans PKWY in Indiana. For the City of Louisville, however, I CANNOT stress enough the need to revive old retail corridors.

How long do you think before 4th st south of 4th St. Live! fills in? Is there any hope for the old retail corridor on Oak St. in Old Louisville? How about West Broadway and West Chestnut? Any chances?

I think the next new retail "hub" within the old city limits will actually be in the East Main and Market corridor, on over to story ave in Buthcertown. If you noticed that hub near mellwood, Frankfort and Lexington was shitty 5 years ago. Now it has trendy restaurants like Cafe Lou Lou and L&N Wine Bar. A place called Fusion offers upscale contemporary food on Story....do you think this trendy, retail and retuaraunt corridor will spill west into downtown?

JTS LOU

February 4th, 2005, 02:35 AM

Glad to hear that for Clarksville. As a primary trade area of about 250k people, it is much larger than say, Bloomington, IN (70-100k), but Bloomington has all of the aformentioned stores. Its about time someone respected S. Indiana for what it is: a viable suburb of Louisville whose residents often live closer to Downtown Louisville than those in the KY suburbs. These people shouldt have to drive 30-40 minutes to Louisville suburbs just to go to a large bookstore. I am happy to see chain developments in these areas. We need chain development on the S, and SW side now. Sheperdsville is picing it up, but PRP/Shively /Valley cant get over the hump. This area needs a power center development exactly like they are doing on Veterans PKWY in Indiana. For the City of Louisville, however, I CANNOT stress enough the need to revive old retail corridors.

How long do you think before 4th st south of 4th St. Live! fills in? Is there any hope for the old retail corridor on Oak St. in Old Louisville? How about West Broadway and West Chestnut? Any chances?

I think the next new retail "hub" within the old city limits will actually be in the East Main and Market corridor, on over to story ave in Buthcertown. If you noticed that hub near mellwood, Frankfort and Lexington was shitty 5 years ago. Now it has trendy restaurants like Cafe Lou Lou and L&N Wine Bar. A place called Fusion offers upscale contemporary food on Story....do you think this trendy, retail and retuaraunt corridor will spill west into downtown?
I know I agree with all of your comments and think the same things as you do. Louisville should try and lure people in and not have them and them only come to us. I WISH urban outfitters would come downtown b/c I think it would great. I believe it would also do very good.

HERE IS WHAT I THINK SW LOUISVILLE NEEDS:
including places such as Valley Station and Pleasure Ridge Park
DIXIE HWY:
Olive Garden, Chillis, Outback Steakhouse, 2 Starbucks(Valley Station/Prp-Shively, renovation of some of the old yuck looking stuff, A bookstore such as Barnes & Noble.

GREENBELT HWY:
Walmart Supercenter (proposed already)/(I know its Walmart but it could help bring shopping to this part of town), A small Mall or Summit type of Development not so Upscale just casual places like the Jefferson Mall including Footaction USA (already in Southland Terrace in Shively), Dillards could put its store there instead of Shively Center, American Eagle Outfitters, The Gap (just b/c its not at Jefferson Mall), and some other regular Mall stores not really out of the ordinary.

---- I know this sounds like a dream but I think it is completely possible if you ask me. The city just needs to lour people and get this place moving in the right direction.

gych

February 4th, 2005, 02:53 AM

If you live in PRP/Valley, where do you eat? Do you think people drive 30 minutes to Hurstbourne? Or btown or Frankfort or downtown, st matts, etc? Like I said, there needs to be a power center built...i am not sure where, but possibly even on Greenbelt. It should basically include what they are doing with the power center in Indiana. That is-Olive Garden/Carraba's, Chili's, or even Fridays, Don Pablo, etc. Any 2 of those would work. Also have a Borders/Barnes and Noble as an anchor tenant along with a Linens and Things or Bed Bath and Beyond. target Great land would do as well. Then put a starbucks, and recruit some local places to offer some ethic variety like a good thai or chinese place. Maybe something car related bc the dixie hwy folks like that. This is the ONLY area in the metro where I would support and endorse this chain suburban shit that I hate dearly!!!! ;)

gych

February 4th, 2005, 03:27 AM

Wow after looking at a map, I have decided that SW louisville may have the densest burbs. In most cities, fern valley road and outerloop would extend west to dixie highway. I think that right there is a lot of the problem. There needs to be an east west spurt btwn 264 and 265 like Hurstbourne serves as, and now Blankenbaker, btw 264 and 265 on the east side.

I think if Outer Loop was extended to Dixie, it would alleviate a lotta congestion and could be the semiupscale location for the Power Center I proposed before. It would pass right south of Arnoldtown rd. and all those well, pretty upscale subdivisions (homes as nice and big or nicer than east side). I could not believe some of the houses out there. I think they were like 6,000 to 7,000 sq ft and were only 500k! Even in the east end these would go for 750k! In chicago burbs theyd go for 1.2 million!!!! SW Louisville, like its Indiana counterpart, is no longer just a blue collar, factory worker haven. I think there are a decent amout of profesionals and tradesman....and they are building big houses!

JTS LOU

February 4th, 2005, 03:43 AM

LouisvilleS

February 4th, 2005, 07:20 AM

I know that there are a number of new houses going up in the SW part of the county, particularly in the area around Greenbelt and from Stonestreet south to Watson Lane, but I really don't think that there is enough money to support the types of developments that you guys want in that part of the county. A couple of residential developments with 200 homes that start at $180,000 is certainly not enough people with great enough incomes to support the chains that have east end locations only. I say give it 10 more years to allow for the demographics to be auspicious enough to merit construction of these places in SW Louisville.

card04

February 4th, 2005, 09:51 AM

I agree I don't think sw louisville is quite ready for the gap, even though it's not really that upscale, its a little too upscale for most people in this area ( I live here, so i know the area pretty good). Though the demographics for the area are changing it is still primarily blue collar. Anyways I do believe it could support a Summit type development if it was located in the southern part of the greenbelt, or dixie. I remember reading in the Courier Journal sometime ago that the southwest region has a high average income than the area surrounding Jefferson mall. I agree with you gych dixie hwy needs to be more connected to the rest of the city, it seems like the only way to get anywhere else is either through 264 or 265. I believe a "greenway" connecting dixie to the rest of the county would bring a lot of new development that could spread throughout the region.
Anybody got any news about the Broadway Lofts, I keep seeing that sign on top of that old warehouse looking building everytime I drive on broadway. It's pretty close to the Clarksdale Projects, so it seems like once those get redone that the two developments would complement each other and that area.

gych

February 4th, 2005, 10:29 AM

Well, go to Louisville Central area's website. And you will se a link..believe it is offbroadwaylofts.com. It looks good, but its also a peterson-popham development. That guys basicallly a wacko jackass of a landlord in Old Louisville, so I wouldnt be surprised if this fell through. Its sposed to be done by 06 but i dont even think theyve started? And by the way, I think its actually by smoektown and the shelby park projects. Im guessing popham was simply given this building so hes trying to find a way to use the bare minimum to restore it, then charge insane rents like 700-1200 for a one or 2 bedroom 1200sq. ft loft.

Now...if you are referring to the restoration of the YWCA bldg, I think that will def happen..sooner or later. The developer did an awesome job with glassworks and i think hell do the same with the YWCA (broadway lofts not to be confused with the other one!)

lou-villian

February 4th, 2005, 02:48 PM

To echo everyone else I think sw jefferson is definitly a underserved market; I still believe that if you build something semi upscale it will thrive in that area, because you are diving into many untapped markets. I guarantee you people would drive from radclife and other towns that are close to prp/valley area. That type of development would be a huge success and would only create more development for that area. I believe you could draw from the northern edges of hardin county, west meade country and north west bullitt. I do know for sure that Clarksville is getting a best buy and I believe as mentioned before that Target is also moving on veterans. I couldn't remember if it was olive garden or a different italian chain but thats going there. Circuit city is going to move to the jeffersonville side which is slated to be the biggest development. I know hotels and a office building were slated on the jeff side but they have released any more info as of late. Does anyone know when hborne ln is supposed to be finish, I know they were extending it out to UPS and the airport, just wonding if anyone know the time table on that. Anyway keep the info coming.

LouisvilleS

February 5th, 2005, 12:29 AM

Hurstbourne was to be completed by December '04, but with the copious amounts of rain the city received in 2004, the date kept getting pushed back further. Then the asphalt company stopped for the holidays so no construction could be done until they opened again and when the weather was warm enough to allow it. I live about a mile or so south of the extension, and all has been completed except for the part right at Bardstown Rd., so I say it should be done by next month.

JTS LOU

February 6th, 2005, 05:05 PM

Alot of rumor in talks that Louisville will be host to American Idle auditons for the next season or the season after that.

Anyone have Info?

Soulbrotha

February 6th, 2005, 11:53 PM

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050206/NEWS01/502060381

raqoff25

February 8th, 2005, 12:01 AM

JTS LOU

February 8th, 2005, 12:36 AM

Just a random thought, but were there ever talks to widen I-64 from the Watterson to DT?? I thought I heard rumors, but didn't know if anyone else heard bout it? Do you all think it's necessary, I mean it is one of the main thoroughfares through the city and it's only 2 lanes each way! Let me know!

I dont have any links on it but I do belive it is proposed as well as windening I-71 from the watterson to the new Spaghetti Junction after the bridges are built and the traffic in the east begins to increase as development is just on and on here lately in all parts of the Louisville area. I believe that it needs to be widened. When you come into Louisville from Charleston, WV or Lexington you expect it to probably have at least six all the way to downtown but instead we have a four lane highway. LOL. after a six lane highway through the suburbs. Oh and I-64 is planned to be widened from I-265 to Shelbyville.

Also I would like to know if anyone thinks that I-265(Snyder Freeway) needs to be widened, it is a complete nightmare at rush hour.

LouisvilleS

February 8th, 2005, 04:18 AM

The Snyder definitely needs to be widened because it is nightmarish during the morning and evening rushes, and it's still kind of bad in the hours between rushes. There are plans to add a lane in each direction from Bardstown Rd. to I-64. I'm not sure if lanes are being added between Beulah Church Rd. and Billtown Rd., but I know that the ramp from EB 265 to Bardstown Rd. is getting dual right turn lanes and dual left turn lanes because from about 4-6 pm, traffic exiting onto Bardstown starts queuing up on the shoulder of the Snyder for about a half mile until the exit.

I know that the interchanges with the Snyder and I-64 and Shelbyville Rd. are also supposed to be reconstructed with flyover ramps and additional lanes. I think the new right-of-way has been lain along the northbound lanes between I-64 and Aiken Ln.

gych

February 8th, 2005, 06:53 AM

i am still interested in the retail talks we were having. I think s. indiana is now going to offer all the typical suburban chains. prospect has them, so does stmatts/middletown/jtown. Add Okolona and Fern Creek to the list of well developed suburbs with extensive chains.

I ask you, what is the next area to offer all the typical stores you would find in the suburbs. Do you think it will be Shively/PRP Valley? How about one of the old city COOL corridors? Oak street or Broadway downtown? 4th street or main street? I think if we could get some nicer developments on 4th and maybe oak to serve and gentrify old louisville, a lot would get nicer around the immediate downtown area.

A42251

February 8th, 2005, 11:10 PM

As far as retail, we need to get downtown going. I want to see the ground floors of all the 19th century buildings on Main Street fill up with stores and restaurants. 21C will hopefilly be a boost to help get it moving. I also want to see all of the wig shops out of 4th Street and I know this will eventually happen. Also, downtown really, really needs a Kroger, preferably in the East Main Street area around all the new condos.

Gych, I am with you about oak Street. Besides downtown, the other area that I think needs more retail is Old Louisville. This is one of the prettiest urban hoods in the whole country but there are very few places to shop or eat.

BTW - Today's header image rocks!!!!!!!!!!!

LouisvilleJake

February 10th, 2005, 10:27 PM

Finally, the abandonned White Caste on Shelyville road is being razed and a new bank is being built in it's place. i was getting tired of seeing that place everytime I drove on that road....glad to hear they're doing this.

http://vh10018.v1.moc.gbahn.net/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=B2&Date=20050210&Category=NEWS0102&ArtNo=502100421&Ref=AR&MaxW=230

A St. Matthews-area landmark -- the old White Castle building on Shelbyville Road at Chenoweth Lane -- will be demolished to make way for a bank, according to a proposal pending before planning officials.

Fidelity Venture Inc., led by John Pendergrass, wants to raze the building and construct a two-story, 5,062-square-foot bank.

The existing building, which has 2,028 square feet, has been vacant since the restaurant closed three years ago. Officials with Louisville Metro Planning & Design Services could approve the bank proposal after a public review next week.

"I would hate to see the old building go. I still haven't gotten used to it not being there," said Bud Schardein, director of the Metropolitan Sewer District and a 20-year regular at the old White Castle.

The bank would be built where the White Castle building stands, with a 35-space parking lot to the west. The site layout would be similar to the current building.

The bank would have two drive-through lanes, according to the plans. The plans did not specify the name of the bank, and Pendergrass did not return telephone calls seeking comment.

Fidelity Venture owns a quarter-acre where the parking lot sits, and PNC Bank is the trustee for the owner of about one-third of an acre that the building occupies. White Castle of Kentucky LLC owns that part of the property, according to Jefferson County Property Valuation Administrator's records.

Citing a confidentiality agreement between the bank and the property owner, PNC spokesman Mike Moll declined to discuss the proposal because it hasn't been approved. But he said the new bank would not be a PNC branch; PNC has a branch across Shelbyville Road.

The White Castle site, at a busy five-way intersection complicated by railroad tracks, raised "significant access and traffic issues," according to a staff report by planners Latondra Jones and Mike Wilcher of Planning & Design.

The state Department of Highways has been trying to develop a plan to make the intersection safer, but hasn't made a proposal yet.

Planning officials likely will consider those issues while they review the proposal.

The proposed bank is in a sliver of Louisville that abuts St. Matthews. The vacant building is on Shelbyville Road, and the parking lot is on Frankfort Avenue. The dividing line between them is Wilmington Avenue, according to metro Public Works records.

The bank could help efforts to revitalize the business district along those streets and nearby, said Bernard Bowling, a St. Matthews City Council member and a member of the Heart of St. Matthews Committee, which works to help the business district.

"Any time you put something on a piece of property that's sitting vacant, that's good," said Bowling, who also owns Plehn's Bakery, about a block east of the bank site. "Banks usually do good developments. It should be an improvement."

The White Castle opened in 1939 in a building where the parking lot now sits. A Consolidated Sales store and other businesses, such as a Hudson automobile dealership, occupied the part of the property where the vacant building now stands, Bowling said.

Indian Hills Mayor Tom Eifler, another regular White Castle customer, agreed that the bank would help the area.

But he said he misses the one-of-a-kind atmosphere at the White Castle and still has a souvenir button commemorating its last day -- April 16, 2002.

"The bank will be a good thing, but what I'd like to really see is another White Castle," Eifler said.

JTS LOU

February 11th, 2005, 01:29 AM

cool. Glad to see something finally get built in that spot.

JTS LOU

February 13th, 2005, 11:24 PM

I was around the Summit today and That area is Booming. Things are being built every-where.

Anybody know anything about the retail scene with Oxmoor and St. Matthews?

gych

February 15th, 2005, 08:21 PM

No word, but Oxmoor is about 98% leased and i know general growth is gunning to fill the Lord and Taylor spot in msm. Once again, lets hope for saks, but remember that Nordstrom had signed on at MSM in 02 but leasing deals did not work out.

For s. Indiana, i was in town and driving on veterans pkwy. West of 65, it is developing nicely. Waterford Park north has ANNOUNCED tenants on its sign of Target, Best Buy, Bed Bath and Beyond, Old Navy, Lane Bryant, Dress Barn, and I believe Rack Room shoes. This is a nice development for Indiana and seems more "hurstbourneesque." Jeff town venter has made ZERO progress it seems...any word on this?

Also, why did they tear down an old builiding at Floyd and main? Its on the opposite side of a club called "skyvvies" from the new development called the Hub...which hasnt begun. What blows my mind too is why thet ripped down that building at 4th and chestnut and planted grass!. The building they ripped down was ghetto, but it gave 4th st a flush with the street urban fabric not found elsewhere in downtown. Any word on the NW corner of 4th and chestnut?

LouisvilleJake

February 16th, 2005, 12:12 AM

The Clarksville side of Veteran's Parkway also has 3 hotels planned, another project called Waterford Park South, by the same company developing the one you mentioned, River Falls expansion to Veteran's Parkway with a Main Street setting of retail. Veteran's is going to be a much nicer road than anything else in Indiana, and aesthetically will look similar to Hurstborne I think with greenery and fountains, et cetera.

Jeffersonville Towne Center is still a go as of January. The developer has been having behind the scenes meetings with the mayor of Jeffersonville. The latest plan said construction to commence this Spring, with many of the small stores open by Holiday 2005 and the majority finished by summer 2006. Who knows though...I'll believe it when I see the place lit up from the interstate.

The city tore down the building at 4th and Chestnut due to structural instability caused by water damage in 2001. The land is city owned, yet they are actively pursuing a developer to buy the land and the building next to it for residential/office redevelopment.

The building was torn down next to Skivvies to be a launch point for the construction of the Mercantile Gallery Lofts across the street. When that project is done, The Hub will be built on BOTH sides of the street, including where they are tearing down the building.

LouisvilleJake

February 16th, 2005, 01:28 AM

Can I just say how much I HATE the whole Seum clan in Louisville...

First the fiasco with Dana, now daddy thinks Louisville air is perfectly clean...wonder how much money he gets from big business in Louisville...

Bill could Strip Louisville of Power Over Air Quality

Sen. Dan Seum, R-Louisville, has filed a bill to take away Louisville's authority to regulate the quality of its air - a power the community has had for more than 50 years.

His bill would also prohibit new air-quality regulations in Jefferson County from being more stringent than those of the federal government - a provision that applies elsewhere in Kentucky.

The senator said this morning that he filed the bill Monday night as an attempt to force local officials to reach an agreement with business interests on a proposed program to curb toxic air in Jefferson County.

The Louisville Metro Air Pollution Control Board will hold a public hearing tomorrow on a package of 20 new or amended regulations - some with provisions that exceed federal requirements - that are intended to lower health risks from toxic chemicals in the air. The hearing will be at 2 p.m. at the board's office at 850 Barret Ave.

"I happen to think the local air pollution control district is out of control," Seum said today.

Louisville Metro Air Pollution Control District officials declined to comment and referred a reporter to Mayor Jerry Abramson.

"It's fair to say the bill has the potential to have a wide-ranging impact on the ability (of Louisville) to protect the public health of citizens in this region from toxic chemicals and other air pollutants," said Chad Carlton, the mayor's spokesman.

He said the mayor's aides would be interested in talking with Seum so they can "better understand the purpose of the senator's actions."

Both Abramson and air district Director Art Williams have strongly advocated a local program that goes beyond minimum federal requirements to reduce toxic air emissions.

A study completed in 2003 for the West Jefferson County Community Task Force identified health risks from toxic air that were higher than the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency had previously estimated for anywhere in the country. The year before, an unrelated study by the EPA's Atlanta office ranked Jefferson County first in the Southeast for health risks from air pollution.

Seum said he doesn't believe air quality is any worse in Louisville than in other cities of similar size in the region.

gych

February 16th, 2005, 02:35 AM

lol, yeah thats bs jake.

So anyways, regarding the Hub development on east main...will it have buildings on both sides of that skyvvies club bc both corners are now vacant? I noticed they havent really broken ground (nothing has risen yet liek Park place lofts or the new residence inn being built behind it.)

What I did notice is that Soho is underway and there is a small skeleton shell of the structure. The Cathedral commons on 2nd street is also underway with signage...

Pretty soon, there is going to be even MORE vacant retail space in the downtown district. Is anybody ever going to take a gamble and move in? I mean, could we at least get a 24 hour 7-11 on east main or market? I noticed that wonderful newly renovated Cobalt marketplace is STILL vacant in what seems like a year after it was done..

I noticed a new starbucks opened in that awful "corner at Kentucky bar" of the Seelbach. But right across the street, PRIME retail space that Rodes vacated is still empty? If we cant even get that leased, Im thinking its gonna be awhile before any other retail opens up. Any thoughts or inside info on a time table with that stuff? Im thinking downtown needs at a minimum a blockbuster, 7-11, a grocery store, and a good cleaners...any thoughts?

LouisvilleJake

February 16th, 2005, 02:50 AM

The Hub will be on the corner of Skivvies where they are still tearing the building down, the other side of Skivvies will have the new Fleur de Lis development. It will end up being one continuous block of residential and clubs and hotels.

gych

February 16th, 2005, 02:54 AM

^^^ok, still any thoughts on service retail like I said...not to mention clothing stores? And gosh, will they ever clean up that unsightly block called "whiskey row" across from Main st lounge? Do you agree that is the biggest eyesore in downtown right? When do you think they could clean that up, bc under the surface, those bulildings are badass.

SChristopher

February 16th, 2005, 02:55 AM

SChristopher

February 16th, 2005, 03:00 AM

Sorry, that said I realize a grocery with a police man in front could work. I think there are even enough residents in the immediate vicinity of east/west/south downtown to warrent at least a small grocery. But just yet I wouldnt bank on a large chain. I had an idea though...how expensive could it be to open up your own little grocery, they are all over in other cities. As far as clothing retail I think that is on its way rapidly. I really dont understand how you can put in an EB downtown and expect it to be a success but not expect a retail outlet to do well. I would even bank on TJ Maxx or someone like that going into it, they are in most major downtowns around here....they like that, and whether ya like it or not its kinda a department store...thoughts?

LouisvilleJake

February 16th, 2005, 03:02 AM

The block of First and Main is an amazing chance for Louisville to again prove its ability to save beautiful old structures. There have been talks of turning that whole block into a hotel, and residential, but it seems to go around and around in circles. Gos only knows what is going on there

The other place in DT I dislike is Fourth between Seelbach and Brown. That still needs SOOOO much work, although I was glad to see some streetscape improvements they did last month, getting rid of the bushes.

The first floor of the two Riverfront Plaza buildings are being turned into a retail area with, supposedly, a dry cleaners, a restaurant and such. I think DT needs a cleaners, a small grocery to start off with. I would not expect any major retail names for several years though.

LouisvilleJake

February 16th, 2005, 03:08 AM

SChristopher, The Hub is a newly announced residential project for East Main. Right near where the Park Place and Fleur de Lis projects are u/c, and where Mercantile Gallery will be u/c early in the Spring

gych

February 16th, 2005, 04:31 AM

What is the hub? Also, I think you will see why there is not a blockbuster or 7-11 downtown if you have ever been to one of the gas station/convenience stores there after 10 pm ... its not very friendly to human life usually, except for the few that have police patrol.

I think that statement is a little unfair...I mean, its not like downtown cincy LOL....Now THATS scary. But yeah, that thorntons on Broadway can get a little black, but ive never felt "threatened?" In fact, never even been panhandled but I have been in the "Gold Coast" of Chicago many times. Plus, you have to remember that Clarksdale is almost gone..by the end of the year that trash will be completely razed, so that will help.

I think you are both right, an Indian guy needs to come in and open an independent grocery store somewhere on east main or market. Maybe in Cobalt Marketplace? I think the demand HAS to make this happen in 1-2 years once east main and east market is well over 1000 units alone. Do you guys agree with this time scale? What about coaxing Buehlers into opening one down there, they might be interested? So if we get cleaners, grocery etc, then what is the timeline for at least some retail...ie even a TJ Maxx. Maybe 3-5 years? IS it possible to get a major department store? I dont see why dont, even cincy has one, lol. Maybe not a Saks, but how about a downtown Nordtsrom next to the Seelbach on 4th? Any chance of this happening in 7-10 years? Basically, I am asking for a time frame here, what do u think?

gych

February 16th, 2005, 04:38 AM

card04

February 16th, 2005, 06:14 AM

Once there is a substantial population of middle-upper class people living downtown there will be retail downtown, its the same way with any area. Do you think the Summit would've ever been built if that area was still mainly rural? I think that the population of downtown could be at about 10,000 by 2010, and easily doubly or triple that by 2020. I give it 5 years before you get some boutiques and mom and pop stores downtown. If someone would invest in 4th street just south of 4th street live you could probably see some smaller clothing stores such as gap and so on within that area within the next 5 years or so, or possibly the same could go for east main. This is just a guess I'm not an expert, I'm just going on what I seeing going on at the moment.

JTS LOU

February 16th, 2005, 10:27 PM

Six Flags in Louisville has just landed a new water ride according to this mornings local news.

Its really about time!! That park was getting boring w/ the same o stuff all the time. lol

SChristopher

February 17th, 2005, 03:36 AM

I mean, its not like downtown cincy LOL....Now THATS scary.

Bleh. You have got a point there, that is not very friendly to reptiles after 10 and they still have some pretty good chains.

I really agree about Clarksdale, it really didnt seem fit for people to live in and from the looks of it most people that lived there thought so as well because they were usually all outside loitering.

I think the TJ Maxx thing could happen any day now, I dont see a large department store going downtown because it doesnt seem to be a major trend of the times. I think the grocery thing should happen soon as well, I think right now is fine, even if it closed at 7 or 8. Probably in one of these lowrise or midrise condo developments we will see a grocery with staples on the ground floor.

4th Street live looks good, I like the way it looks I hope it spreads down that street like wildfire because id really like that feeling that you can walk down it for 5 or so blocks and be entertained and itd take an hour do like in most entertainment districts in major cities. As far as I know the healthclub never opened, does anyone have any info on that, is 4th st. live pretty much done? I never thought theyd pull off a big box office supply store, but my friend said he went there the other day and it was pretty packed!

If a department store were to go in, it would have to be unique for people to go to it, I am thinking it would be a Nordstrom (Saks isnt really expanding right now, and they seem to usually prefer affluent suburban centers now). I would think the possibility of that would come in 5 years. I could definatly see little stores like Banana Republic on the street or maybe even something new like Restoration Hardware...

Also it is a proven fact that pro-sports do help put some shopping and revitalization downtown. I love basketball, I really wish theyd get a team, but I dont think itll ever happen. At least a nice place to watch concerts ya know!?

SChristopher

February 17th, 2005, 03:42 AM

S chris, check out this site for downtown housing...

http://www.lca-inc.org/lca/dtliving/default.htm

Specificaly, click on the map in the upper right hand corner to get a feel for where things are opening. What do you think...how does it compare to Cincy (I havent been in over a year, but Id say based on that last visit that Lville is blowing it out downtown).

I would say Cincinnati is probably up with Louisville on the amount of projects, but all the ones now are re-habs and seem to be moving slowly. There are many proposed new residential, but things seem to move a little slow. People in Cincinnati seem to have a 'downtown bad' point of view still (which gives Louisville an edge to developing, although when I lived in the burbs of Lou, I knew a neighbor girl who said she was afraid to go downtown because people have guns LOL) due to alot of ignorance of suburban fruits who are afraid there is going to be a riot everytime they go downtown and the news painting a portrait that downtown is awful on a daily basis. I think Cincinnati currently has 4,500-ish residents the last time I checked (dont quote me on that one), of course if you included OTR that number would be rediculously higher. Which also shows that it doesnt really matter about how many residents you have as long as you have an ambitious developer and tax breaks you can end up with all sorts of things in your downtown.

gych

February 17th, 2005, 05:54 AM

^^^Ok, where would u put the TJ Maxx? Maybe where those wig shops are? IMO it would mostly serve the african american community from West Louisville, but they need a decent place to shop.

Also, I am surprised that downtown Cincy has the same amount of residential and hotel/entertainment xonstruction as Louisville. I was in Cincy last year for a concert and downtown was DEAD on a friday except for a couple vagrants. I do enjoy Mt Adams, and appreciate the urban character of OTR.

SChris, honestly though, if you had to compare downtown Cincy with downtown Louisville right NOW, who would win? You can use the arenas as part of your argument if u wish.

SChristopher

February 17th, 2005, 07:24 AM

Yeah 4500 isnt that many residents .... nights downtown really are not very exiting, and in some places can be just scary lol. Main is a little hoppin but not anything like the crowds of 4th in the ville.

Funny you mention arenas, as I was at the US Bank Arena the other day, man that place is crappy, I think Cincy might wanna consider an arena someday lol. Louisville really needs an arena for concerts and stuff, and the fact that theirs would be new is definatly an advantage.

Anyways:

Nightlife : Louisville definatly, it is versatile, with one of the largest gay clubs in the country and versitility with bowling AND watering holes vs. Cincinnati's shot at gentrifying OTR with clubs which I find a little dullsvilleand alot of the clubs downtown are dives or really small...dance or die.

Shopping: Of Course Cincinnati. Saks (HAHA not the nicest, the one in Indy stomps all over it, I could compare it to a JC Penny poor cincy for paying them to stay). The newly re-named macys, which is nice and convenient for me and I do see alot of people walking around with Macys bags. Towerplace for now still has stores even though they leave with each passing year :(. And Louisville has EB games and some independant stores/wig shops :).

The Restaurant scene is, I dont know pretty even prolly. Louisville with the spaghetti factory and all their stuff. Then both have mortons. Cincy does have benihana and palomino in addition to a four star Maisonette, so maybe Cincy does have an edge on food, but we all know Louisvilles premier dining spot is the Highlands. I could eat for days there, with all of the unique stuff and meals from 50 bucks a plate to a 5 dollar greazy burger :) , but were talking downtowns so....

As far as downtown arts and museams, i think I am gonna have a draw as well, I just dont know.

Honestly residentially Louisville has a GREAT rental stock that beats Cincy bar none ... Cincinnati's downtown rentals are mostly sub par or VERY 80's :-/. Louisville has great historic rentals and even new stuff like the crescent development. Condo wise I will give the edge to Louisville too with WFPP and Glassworks and even the new ones going up. Pretty brilliant.

I think the TJ Maxx would go good on Broadway, for real I think it is a great place for a discount store like that and Broadway is a main west end artery. TJ Maxx has no qualms with being in older buildings either which is nice.

What Else?

SChristopher

February 17th, 2005, 07:27 AM

was also gonna say, living here in Downtown Cincy, OTR is a little far and well lets face it just not desirable for em to walk to for groceries, so we have the Walgreens and CVS both of which have food staples and I am sure louisville is just the same, so food isnt a HUGE problem ya know.....not to mention you can trolly it to Kroger on B-town (cant you? There used to be Winn Dixie but I knew it was closing...damn that mid city mall tho LOL) I am amazed how livable the bardstown corridor and downtown is without a car...even without light rail the buses and trollys do a great job serving that area, and if you arent too lazy walking is not too bad either. VERY cool and VERY under rated.

gych

February 17th, 2005, 09:29 AM

Just a couple things...Louisville actually has a 5 star restaurant downtown (oakroom), which I believe cincy lacks (maisonette is BADASS tho for french). Also, Vincenzos is a 4 star downtown on 5th st. And if not, I know for sure the English Grill at the Brown Hotel is a 4 star. Then you have Melillo's on Market, Artemesia, Saffrons, Kunzs, and places like that for more of an upscale atmosphere. Hell even Yachings on 4th is pretty upscale and urban. I think downtown Lville may actually have better eats than the natti...and that doesnt count old louisville upscale joints like 316 ormsby, 610 magnolia (i know trendy huh, lol) and Bucks. A new ultra trendy, and wonderful upscale joint called Fusion opened in Butchertown on Story Ave.

But yes, downtown Lville shopping is PISS POOR. Even when our downtown was "dead" we had the Galleria. Something has GOT to give. I guess they are waiting for all these 200k plus condos to get finished and fill up. And yes, downtown is adding its second walgreens on broadway that will be 24 hours. A CVS is in 4th st live, lol. A new starbucks has opened in the Seelbach in that former crap "Downtown Corner at Kentucky" place. The Seelbach has also added a branch of Hurstbournes upscale Z spa, the premiere spa in the city.

Theatre square (near 4th and broadway) is getting a new restaurant that is a joint venture btwn BBC and Third Avenue cafe. It will fill that vacant bldg and will eventually open a nightclub next door in that salon that closed across from teh Palace. Hopefully this is the beginning of shops meeting together in btwn 4th st live and broadway. A new Mediterranean restaurant opened near the palace too that has some kick ass falafel. Highland coffee opened near the palace in the Fall....

So, if you had to live downtown, would u choose Lville or Natti? Any comment on what I have mentioned or disputes with the restaurants?

SChristopher

February 17th, 2005, 09:50 AM

I dont know much about stars but I do think Maisonette is at the top . Also there was another highly ranked restaurant downtown that I cant recall at the moment. I had never even heard of the oakroom, oops. Louisville is definatly a city on the food radar.

"The Seelbach has also added a branch of Hurstbournes upscale Z spa, the premiere spa in the city. "
Yeah, I actually saw it on TV, on Ellen when they were re-doing some broads house they sent her there...that is definatly cool.

I have to be honest here, I live in downtown cincy right now, close to sports and stuff, which I do like, but overall I like the housing stock in downtown Louisville better (and prices) I like the availability of cheap quick food too like Fridays or even Mc Donalds (lol I know...mc donalds but you know) I like the bars better, and 2 weeks ago I got mugged at 10pm in front of my building (I live a block from towerplace on 4th, not a poor area) and I got propositioned for sex from a drunk bum (more than once by 2 different people!?) the other night when I was out smoking a cigarette LOL, it has an overall more 'poor' look definatly (sorry) I know I am gonna get grilled for this...but with overall more to do in walking distance and in a pretty urban setting I have to choose downtown Louisville as the more livable place to be. Get a damn basketball team! LOL ... I have to say Louisvilles burbs are boring as hell though and the shopping all around isnt too sweet but hopefully this will change by the end of the year, at least we have added whole foods and world market and are getting a CCF (Hey I have my chain moments :) )

gych

February 17th, 2005, 10:10 AM

Louisvilles inability to attract a top department store is befuddling. I think the top stores wanna be there, its just they dont like the tenant mixes at the malls. Also, Oxmoor and MSM charge ridiculously high leases for the area and the calibur of the malls. I think we should both email general growth, the chicago based company that just acquired like all of louisvilles malls. i think they are trying to make the right moves...(they already booted fashion shop hahaha and are replacing it with cheesecake). And they are making River Falls into a main street setting with an anchor tenant that will draw every redneck within a 200 mile radius LOL. (Bass Pro Shops). Do you wanna email general growth with me? I know its a lot, but I am going to ask for a Saks preferably at Oxmoor, but if not, at MSM. Then, I am gonna ask them to look into buying something downtown and bringing in a nordstrom anchored little retail development. Unique to the area retail like Nordstrom will work downtown. Even the downtown Dillards did Okay despite the 7 or 8? freaking others Louisville has!

JTS LOU

February 17th, 2005, 05:16 PM

I have e-mailed general growth several times on the same topic but they have yet to e-mail me back but hey another try wouldnt hurt. Stuff like shopping and a great livability in all areas of the city is what makes a city boom and attract business. A shopping venue downtown would really work now though b/c of 4th street live people are always there and after eating a nice dinner I would go to Borders and then home but with shopping people could stay downtown all day especially in the warmer months(8 out of 12) per year. Any thoughts?

SChristopher

February 17th, 2005, 08:11 PM

Its always nice to walk down a street with shopping bags or see people doing it and window shopping and even around the holidays the people shopping downtown is a neat sight. I e-mailed general growth we will see what happens with that. I agree with the tenant mixes though, it is just too odd. Most of the cities getting real good retail that are Louisville's size are making completely new malls or giving the existing ones severe renovations and additions. It is good to see they are already starting to balance it all out, they really just need to start moving all the J-mall type stuff to the MSM and turn Oxmoor into the upscale destination. I said it a thousand times and I will say it again, Saks doesnt wanna be in a mall with dollar store type stuff or Sears and they sure wouldnt wanna be the only upscale anchor with a Dillards and JC Penny lol, anythings possible, but you get my point.

SChristopher

February 18th, 2005, 07:51 PM

Hey Gych, I saw a thread of you looking for old photos of Louisville, but now I cant find it. BUT I did find an old thread by SoulBrotha, that it doesnt look like you have seen so hurr ya go :

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=120557

JTS LOU

February 18th, 2005, 10:29 PM

I was in the Jeffersontown area today and I have to say that area of town is booming. From Hurstbourne Ln. to I-265 all there is, is new homes being buit from the 250's. It seems like the area could also be prime spot for a new mall or shopping complex around the Gene Snyder(I-265)Freeway. Any thoughts?

JTS LOU

February 19th, 2005, 05:05 PM

I was watching the new today and saw the Galt House renovations. They are pretty impressive. Check it out.

www.galthouse.com / click on renovations

JTS LOU

February 21st, 2005, 12:03 AM

Golden Corral on Dixie Hwy. will be opening soon.

I knoe (Golden Corral) not the best restaurant but still has some good food and its pretty cheap. Anything is good on Dixie. Plus they are building it different than the others around the area. Any thoughts?

jase8

February 21st, 2005, 02:12 AM

I was watching the new today and saw the Galt House renovations. They are pretty impressive. Check it out.

www.galthouse.com / click on renovations

speaking of here's an article from todays C-J

Timing right for upgrades at Galt House
Completion beats debut of Marriott

Officially, the $60 million renovation of the Galt House hotel complex downtown had nothing to do with the new flagship Marriott hotel, opening next month across Jefferson Street from the Kentucky International Convention Center.

"There was a lot of reflection that we needed to reinvest in the Galt and the community regardless of a new flag coming to town," said Lisa Haller, executive director of sales and marketing for the Galt House Hotel & Suites. "It was important for our own success."

But the timing has been impeccable.

In June 2001, Galt House management announced its intentions to redo the Fourth Street properties, just three months before then-Mayor Dave Armstrong announced that Marriott would develop the $110 million convention hotel the city was investing in.

March 17 has been set for the grand opening celebration for the renovations. The Louisville Marriott Downtown is set to open March 28.

Full Article (http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050220/BUSINESS/502200335/1003)

http://vh10018.v1.moc.gbahn.net/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=B2&Date=20050220&Category=BUSINESS&ArtNo=502200335&Ref=AR&Profile=1003&MaxW=230
A $5 million glassed-in lounge and deli connects the two buildings, bridging Fourth Street. The Galt House had not been substantially renovated since the buildings were built -- the West Tower in 1972, the East Tower in 1985.

http://vh10018.v1.moc.gbahn.net/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=B2&Date=20050220&Category=BUSINESS&ArtNo=502200335&Ref=V2&Profile=1003&MaxW=230
Club 360 offers a view of the Ohio River during workouts. Lyndsay Hancock, who works in the gym, took advantage.

http://vh10018.v1.moc.gbahn.net/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=B2&Date=20050220&Category=BUSINESS&ArtNo=502200335&Ref=H3&Profile=1003&MaxW=230
Debra Hammond tended to things in Al J's Bar. An aquarium was built into the bar, foreground.

brandnew

February 21st, 2005, 02:53 AM

i read something in the paper about 4th st live expanding this summer, does anybody know anything more about this?

cwilson758

February 21st, 2005, 03:29 AM

How tall is the Galt House? Sounds like it is a great place!

JTS LOU

February 21st, 2005, 01:50 PM

The Galt House is 99m/325ft.

www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=124469

JTS LOU

February 21st, 2005, 11:46 PM

A UPS store just opened on Dixie Highway. Its about time huh.. lol.. well anyways juss pass'n the info as it comes around. Have a nice day :)

LouisvilleJake

February 22nd, 2005, 09:21 PM

The C-J had two great stories today

First, the city is going to expand the park network outside the Watterson into the newer sections ofthe city

Louisville will spend millions of dollars to buy hundreds of acres for new parks outside the Watterson Expressway.

Mayor Jerry Abramson will announce the plan today; it is being billed as Louisville's largest parks expansion in three decades. The effort, involving government funding and private donations of land and money, is expected to take years to complete, Abramson spokesman Chad Carlton said yesterday.

He said details of the plan, including the costs and park locations, would be released today.

Its intention is to create a system of parks, connected by scenic roads, in Louisville's suburbs, similar to the celebrated Olmsted parks system.

The initial focus will include buying land in rapidly developing areas of suburban Louisville, Carlton said. The parks would be created later.

It will be an "enhancement to our parks system that will improve the quality of life for families in Louisville and give other people more reasons to come to our community," Carlton said.

Abramson, who was in Florida yesterday and couldn't be reached for comment, will announce the plan at noon at the Kentucky International Convention Center.

Humana founder David Jones will oversee fund raising. Former Lt. Gov. Steve Henry, who in 1993 created the Future Fund to buy and preserve land in the Floyds Fork area, also will be involved.

The Future Fund, a nonprofit organization, owns or holds conservation easements on 1,400 acres. Jones and Henry acknowledged yesterday that they are part of the parks effort, but they declined further comment.

The massive parks plan would resemble Louisville's approach to reclaiming its riverfront and constructing Waterfront Park.

That effort, which began in 1986 with creation of the Waterfront Development Corp., includes both public and private funding to complete the $100 million project that stretches from the Great Lawn upriver past the Big Four Bridge.

Abramson has been hinting at a major expansion of the parks since he became mayor of the merged Louisville and Jefferson County governments in 2003.

During his state of the city address in January, Abramson said his administration was crafting a long-range plan to develop a park system "that reaches out to underserved areas of our hometown."

Metro Parks oversees 122 parks covering more than 14,000 acres. The largest is Jefferson Memorial Forest, with 5,500 acres in southern Jefferson County.

Inside the urban services district -- the old city of Louisville, with a population of roughly 200,000 -- there generally is a park within one mile of every residence, said Jason Cissell, a Metro Parks spokesman.

Outside the urban services district, there are more than 500,000 people, some of whom do not live within 2 miles of a park, he said.

Inside the Watterson, Louisville has the Olmsted system, designed by Frederick Law Olmsted, the father of landscape architecture who also created Central Park in New York City.

The Olmsted system has three flagship parks -- Cherokee, Iroquois and Shawnee -- and 15 smaller parks, squares, green spaces and playgrounds. Six parkways, lined with towering trees, connect the Olmsted parks, creating what has been termed an "emerald necklace."

Metro Councilman James Peden, R-23rd, who represents portions of southeast Jefferson County, said his neighborhoods need more parks.

"I think it's our obligation to do, and I would love it," he said.

He said taxpayer money should be involved to acquire land, but he also wants to see private money used. And he said he doesn't want the expansion plan to drain the existing park system.

David Karem, president of the Waterfront Development Corp., said yesterday that he isn't aware of Abramson's parks plan, but applauded the move to create a public-private partnership to develop the parks plan.

Government alone, he said, no longer can be counted on to build parks.

"In any situation, mustering resources in this day and age calls on those kinds of dual partnerships," he said.

Waterfront Park has received more than one-third of its donations, $35 million, from private individuals and corporations. The J. Graham Brown Foundation has been the largest contributor, at $11 million.

When the Olmsted parks system was designed in the late 1890s, Karem said, it formed a ring of green around the city.

"Now the community has expanded, and it's time to expand the necklace," he said.

LouisvilleJake

February 22nd, 2005, 09:24 PM

The New Villiage at Towhead plans were revealed today for the vacant land just east of Riverfront Park, with a groundbreaking in the fall. If this pans out, it will be amazing...

Apartments and condos will sit on a platform 12 feet over River Road, with parking underneath.

Courtyards will have views of the Ohio River.

A large central courtyard will be ringed by ground-level shops, restaurants and such amenities as a health club.

Developers of the planned $130 million RiverPark Place project on Louisville's waterfront say they learned from visits to such developments in Boston, Portland, Ore., and Vancouver, B.C., that "bigger is better" and that more units help create "a sense of urban community."

Not enough traffic and people, said Steve Poe, a partner in the local project, could lead to "fears of a barren, no-man's land."

The Waterfront Development Corp. board will review the preliminary plan by Icon Properties LLC for RiverPark Place tomorrow.

According to the plan, the first phase will include up to 350 units in six four- to 14-story structures, most of which will be built atop a platform to escape flooding, along with a large marina and extensive pathways, piers and park space.

Louisville Metro Mayor Jerry Abramson said he has dreamed of developing the city-owned, 35-acre area north of River Road just west of Beargrass Creek since the late 1980s. He said Icon has the "financial horsepower and the development expertise" to complete the project.

Poe said the plans are "pretty grandiose. But we believe it will be one of the best waterfront urban developments anywhere."

David Karem, the Waterfront agency's executive director, said Icon's preliminary plans appear "strongly in keeping" with the board's direction for Ohio River development.

The property is just upriver from Stop Lite Liquors, which is being relocated, and is next to the newest part of Waterfront Park. It includes the old Louisville Municipal Boat Harbor, whose members probably will be offered slips in the new marina, Poe said.

Under a development agreement approved last fall by the Metro Council, Icon must "substantially complete" phase one by Dec. 1, 2006. Poe said ground will be broken this fall, with first occupancy by fall 2006.

Poe said about 60 percent of the first phase will be apartments renting for $500 to $1,500 a month. The other units will be condominiums selling for around $150,000 to more than $1 million.

He said several lenders have expressed interest in financing the first phase.

RiverPark Place was a collaborative design by Goody Clancy of Boston and K. Norman Berry Associates Architects of Louisville. Berry has designed numerous projects along Main Street in Louisville, and Goody Clancy has designed waterfront projects in Boston, Cleveland, Norfolk, Va., New Haven, Conn., and numerous other cities.

Waterfront spokesman Mike Kimmel said regulatory agencies will review the plans, but no rezoning or further Metro Council approval is needed.

Jim Segrest, president of the Butchertown Neighborhood Association, said he was confident Icon will "do a great job" developing a plan that preserves the historic character of the area.

Poe said Icon has agreed not to develop a three-acre wetlands along Beargrass Creek that will be used for picnicking and launching canoes.

He said Icon also won't develop an area near the old Paget House on the west side of the tract where archaeological surveys in the 1990s turned up remnants of an 1800s riverside settlement. The Paget House will be converted to a public use to be decided, Poe said.

The development agreement calls for Icon to pay the city 4 percent of the proceeds of all condo sales, 4 percent of the annual rent payments and 4 percent from the sale or rental of any marina boat slips in return for use of the land.

The Icon partners include Berry, Poe and local investors Clyde Ensor, Mike Ehrler, Nolen Allen and William Hysinger. All but Berry are partners in the new $111 million Downtown Louisville Marriott.

JTS LOU

February 23rd, 2005, 02:07 AM

I really like it when these type of projects are announced.

This is great news for the Jefferson County area and Riverroad.

JTS LOU

February 25th, 2005, 06:06 AM

I was in and around downtown today and saw Tumbleweed going up on the river it looks like its going to be really cool looking. Also many rumors are going around that Dixie Hwy. Right as you get off I-264 has two new buildings going up right before the onramp going east-west for the morning commute and that one of them is going to be a starbucks. Any Info??

JTS LOU

February 25th, 2005, 06:19 AM

See link below. Louisville could add over 1,200 jobs. Great news for the economy if it all works outhttp

More jobs could be coming

Kentucky is offering up to $20 million in incentives to entice shipping giant UPS Inc. to spend $82.5 million to expand its Louisville package-sorting hub.

The city is one of six contending for the hub, which could bring more than 700 jobs. Other cities include Philadelphia, Rockford, Ill., Ontario, Calif., Dallas, Hartford, Conn., and Columbia, S.C.

Kentucky officials offered the incentives on Thursday, the same day UPS announced it would close its recently acquired freight sorting hub in Dayton, Ohio, in 2006, eliminating 1,400 jobs. The facility is its only sorting hub for heavy airline freight.

The Atlanta-based company said a new hub for handling cargo weighing more than 150 pounds will be built at an existing hub in an effort to improve efficiency.

UPS has its main package-sorting hub at Louisville International Airport.

The Kentucky Economic Development Finance Authority said the UPS expansion would initially create 120 full-time and 600 part-time jobs, though 400 full-time jobs could be created over 10 years.

The expansion would allow UPS to offer more services through the Louisville hub, company spokesman Mark Giuffre said from Louisville.

Kentucky's incentive package is tax credits based on the number of full-time jobs created, said Carmen Hickerson of Greater Louisville Inc., which helped create the package.

Neither Giuffre nor Hickerson knew what the other cities were offering UPS.

"I'm sure they'll all be putting out their best to get it," Hickerson said.

The finance authority also approved $4.6 million in incentives over 10 years for Raytheon Missile Systems to expand its Louisville facility if the company lands a federal contract to build a new weapons system.

Louisville Mayor Jerry Abramson said the two expansions would bring about $22 million in payroll to the area.

"That sounds like some good paying jobs," Abramson said.

"We're hoping their decision comes forward soon." Raytheon, which currently builds the Phalanx Missile System at the Louisville Technology Park, would hire as many as 275 more people to its existing work force of 348 employees.

http://www.fox41.com/business/bus_detail.asp?id=21794&section=5

gych

February 25th, 2005, 06:43 AM

yeah schris, that downtown urbanity looks like chicago in the 1920s. It will be back, although not quite as dense. I am a big believer that downtown living and retail will be huge in the next 25 years. If you think about it, Louisville, like its brothers STL and Cincy, are freaking SHADOWS of the former monsters that they were. I hope they all three come back.

JTSLou, looks like we have decent job growth, but our dumbass mayor really HAS to recruit a major fortune 500 company here. We need another big player in town that will commit its jobs here and hire upscale professionals. That should be a huge goal of the mayor and GLI, bc as they say, "all this bricks and mortar" wont bring the big talent, and keep the home grown talent, without the high paying white collar jobs. From an amenity standpoint, Louisville is catching up with its peers and even establishing itself as somewhat unique.

JTSLOU, IMO starbucks is crazy for not opening a store on lewis and clark in clarksville and dixie in louisville. I believe veterans pkwy will get one first tho. Out of 150 or 200k people in the dixie corridor, SURELY they would want and support ONE starbucks.

JTS LOU

February 25th, 2005, 01:59 PM

JTSLOU, IMO starbucks is crazy for not opening a store on lewis and clark in clarksville and dixie in louisville. I believe veterans pkwy will get one first tho. Out of 150 or 200k people in the dixie corridor, SURELY they would want and support ONE starbucks.[/QUOTE]

I have friends out around the area and am there quite often and I know I would stop.....ALL THE TIME. lol. but your probably right, I cant believe S. Indiana hasn't got one yet.

Oh and also our mayor is VERY..VERY stupid for not attracting another a fortune 500 company, we have 1.5 million and only 3 fortune 500's.

raqoff25

February 26th, 2005, 03:24 AM

It was just announced today in C-J! Here you go!

UPS announces $82.5 million expansion in Louisville, Ky.

By BRUCE SCHREINER
Associated Press Writer

FRANKFORT, Ky. (AP) -- UPS Inc. on Friday announced an $82.5 million expansion at its Louisville air hub, accepting a $20 million incentives package from Kentucky a day after the shipping giant served notice of plans to close its freight sorting hub in Ohio.

The world's largest shipping carrier said it will build a 785,257-square-foot heavy air service hub at its Louisville operations next to the city's main airport.

The expansion will create 720 new jobs initially. The operation's work force is expected to reach 400 full-time and 600 part-time jobs within 10 years after the hub opens. The shipper already employs about 7,000 people at its Louisville hub, its largest.

"Kentucky is a place we like to be," John Hindman, a UPS Airlines vice president, in making the announcement at the Kentucky Capitol, 50 miles east of Louisville.

"You all run that wonderful commercial, `What can Brown do for you.' Look what Brown has done for the commonwealth of Kentucky and for my hometown," Louisville Mayor Jerry Abramson said.

On Thursday, UPS announced it will close its freight sorting hub in Dayton, Ohio, in 2006, eliminating 1,400 jobs. Louisville was among seven cities contending for the expansion.

Kentucky offered up to $20 million in tax benefits to lure the UPS expansion. To achieve the full benefits, the Atlanta-based shipping company must create at least 400 new full-time jobs within 10 years of the heavy air freight hub's opening, said Mark Giuffre, a UPS spokesman.

No date has been set for the opening, he said.

Gov. Ernie Fletcher said the expansion was good news for all of Kentucky. "If something good happens in one part of the state, it's good for the entire state," he said.

Hindman said the company was grateful for the state incentives package, and predicted the tax break will "repay itself many times over through job growth for Kentuckians."

UPS reviewed its existing air hubs in searching for a hub for heavy freight operations, Hindman said. While negotiating with Kentucky officials, UPS did not request offers from other states with operations, he said.

The new hub will handle shipments weighing more than 150 pounds.

"It will help UPS create a new heavy air freight service and offer customers yet another option in our comprehensive ... services," Hindman said.

State Economic Development Secretary Gene Strong said the expansion could lure "spinoff" businesses wanting to locate near the heavy freight operations.

"I think this is just sort of the tip of the iceberg of what this investment will mean in terms of return for the taxpayers of the state and business in the future," he said.

Hindman said the expansion would solidify Louisville's "prominent position at the intersection of the world's transportation crossroads." Currently, about 1 million packages are processed daily at UPS' Louisville operations - the main hub for domestic and international deliveries.

Meanwhile, Abramson said the taxiways and runways at the city's main airport will be widened before UPS adds new Airbus A380 super-jumbo jets to its fleet in 2009.

UPS shares fell 21 cents to close at $77.19 in Friday trading on the New York Stock Exchange. Its shares have traded in a 52-week range of $67.51 and $89.11.

---

On the Net:

UPS Inc.: http://www.ups.com

A42251

February 26th, 2005, 03:55 AM

Do any of you know what is going to happen with the space at 4th Street Live where Premier Fitness was originally supposed to be?

Soulbrotha

February 26th, 2005, 05:17 AM

4th St. Live Rascals to close
Club lined up to occupy spot
QUICK TAKE

Last we knew
Rascals comedy club had opened at 4th Street Live in June and its owners, Headliners Entertainment, had planned to buy out JHF Properties, its partner in other 4th Street clubs, including Red Cheetah and Parrot Beach bar.

The latest
Rascals is due to close March 1 and be replaced by The Palmbar, a JHF Properties concept. Headliners apparently was unable to complete the deal to buy out JHF's interest.

Why it's news
Rascals is the first of the national nightclub chains at the downtown entertainment complex to fold.

By David Goetz
dgoetz@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal

The Rascals comedy club at 4th Street Live will close Tuesday, the first of the national nightclub chains at the downtown entertainment complex to fold.

The Rascals space will be filled by a new lounge called The Palmbar, a concept of JHF Properties, which operates the adjoining Red Cheetah dance club and the Parrot Beach bar, according to a press release from 4th Street Live developer Cordish Co.

Group commitments will be honored until the Rascals closing, the release said. Customers with advance tickets should contact the corporate offices of JHF Properties at (614) 760-9500 for refunds.

A receptionist with Rascals' parent company, Headliners Entertainment Group in New Jersey, said it was snowing there yesterday afternoon and anyone who could comment on the closing had already gone home. A spokesman for JHF Properties in Ohio was not available late yesterday.

Headliners Entertainment was a one-third partner in a company that included Rascals, Red Cheetah and Parrot Beach at 4th Street Live.

Headliners was under contract to buy the remaining interest from JHF Properties, but apparently was never in a financial position to do that from the time it opened last June.

In December, in an attempt to raise capital, Headliners issued a prospectus in which it said it had sustained substantial losses in the last three years and its debts were far in excess of its assets.

As of Sept. 30, Headliners said, it had debts of just over $7 million and liquid assets of about $17,000 and was trying to negotiate with its major creditors.

Opening the Louisville club was part of a strategy to develop enough Rascals outlets to make company operations efficient. The 4th Street Live arrangement was part of a three-club deal that included complexes in Jackson, Miss., and Omaha, Neb.

According to Headliners filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, between its opening June 17 and Sept. 30, 2004, the joint venture's 4th Street Live clubs had sales of just under $2 million and net income of $551,000.

In December Headliners said the Louisville facility was grossing an average of $100,000 a week.

The Cordish release described The Palmbar as a lounge with "a South Beach atmosphere" including candle lighting, low-level seating and a "high end" outdoor patio, featuring premium wines and champagnes by the glass. It's set to open in time for the Kentucky Derby.

JTS LOU

February 26th, 2005, 04:44 PM

Thats sorta sucks but I guess Ill get over it. lol

jase8

February 26th, 2005, 11:26 PM

Thats sorta sucks but I guess Ill get over it. lol

i'm kinda glad. i think it would have put the comedy caravan in mid-city mall out of business. and, i like to see the locally owned places make it in the end.

JTS LOU

February 27th, 2005, 12:17 AM

i'm kinda glad. i think it would have put the comedy caravan in mid-city mall out of business. and, i like to see the locally owned places make it in the end.

thats also true I would rather see the caravan survive. Good point.

KM1410

February 27th, 2005, 12:52 AM

Oh and also our mayor is VERY..VERY stupid for not attracting another a fortune 500 company, we have 1.5 million and only 3 fortune 500's.

it would be a futile effort for mayors to go out and try to attract a fortune 500 company. how many fortune 500 companies move their headquarters? very, very few. a more worthwhile effort would be for your mayor to help develop and grow small to mid size companies that could eventually become fortune 500 companies. not only would those companies be more loyal to Louisville, they would be more likely to expand their operations in Louisville as well.

LouisvilleJake

February 27th, 2005, 01:01 AM

I agree completely with KM1410, Louisville can't just attract some F500 company to town. Isn't going to happen, so why waste breath? The city needs to continue to help small/mid sized companies to expand and create a strong business climate in the city that way. You never know, one or two of them could be vaulted into F500 status someday.

Anyway, on a side not, I still consider LG&E a de facto F500. It was F500 prior to accusition by European utility giant E.ON, and they have kept the same corporate structure in town and still help support the city, so while no longer technical, LG&E may as well be F500 to Louisvillians.

jase8

February 27th, 2005, 09:23 AM

this thread has pissed me off so bad LINK (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=184894)

KM1410

February 28th, 2005, 12:39 AM

this thread has pissed me off so bad LINK (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=184894)

i wouldnt worry about anything denvernative1982 posts.

LouisvilleJake

March 3rd, 2005, 12:21 AM

small rendering of Cathedral Commons(winter 2005/2006)and The Hub(Fall 2006)

http://www.lca-inc.org/lca/devactivity/images/cathedral_commons_sm.jpg

http://www.lca-inc.org/lca/devactivity/images/thehubrendering.jpg

I was glad to finally see what they are going to look like. They've already torn down the building that is where The Hub will be, but they are using that now as a staging ground to complete Mercantile Gellery Lofts on the other side of the street before they build this project.

Cathedral Commons has already started.

Just thought I'd show what I found.

gych

March 3rd, 2005, 01:49 AM

Jake, those projects are really classy, and VERY high end I think. I think the new SoHo condos will be cool too. Now if we could just get that damned "whisky row" on E Main rehabbed, our downtown would look pretty new and modern save for the lack of retail.

New development proposals and how our stubborn community constantly opposes them (in fact, I cant remember the last time a proposed new development DIDNt have opponents.)

Hildebrand farm at brownsboro and the watterson:
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050302/NEWS0102/503020316/1027

Upscale corporate park at Blankenbaker and I-64:
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050302/NEWS0102/503020468/1008/NEWS01

Infill project on Poplar level near Audubon to create much needed sit down restauarnts and shopping:
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050302/NEWS0102/503020323/1027

All are great proposals that would just happen in most other cities I think. Why so much opposition to change in Louisville? Would people in Nashville or Indianapolis CONSISTENTLY oppose this many projects? Who is this opposition, is it mostly older people who will die out soon? GRRR, it pisses me off, but what do you guys think?

LouisvilleJake

March 3rd, 2005, 02:39 AM

^ The Hub will be an expensive project, however Cathedral Commons is going to aimed at the workers at the hospitals and such who make in the range of 30-45k. The rents are to be something that the averege person can afford, which is awesome, in my opinion. Both look classy, and I am excited to see the Hardy House renovated in that picture.

I was disappointed when I read in the C-J today about the opposition to the project out on Blankenbaker...why do people think they are going to move out to the edge of the city and life is going to stand still? Things grow...get over it. I mean, this office project borders the interstate and Blankenbaker Drive....it is meant to be used for commercial purposes, in my opinion. Of course, I've always lived in older, dense areas where I've always had to deal with traffic, so the people who whine about traffic all day long make me laugh. And out of scale with the neighborhood? blah blah blah...they're not building a 600 foot skyscraper next door! There will be landscaping buffers, good lighting, added lanes. People are too much sometimes.

HOWEVER, having said all that...it is because of people like this that we have the city of today. Louisville has always had an aversion to rapid development, which, in my opinion, has helped destroy the quality of life in our neighbor cities. There has to be a certain give and take between the community and the developpers. I hope all these projects go through with lots of consideration for the community and for the future of development in Louisville.

SChristopher

March 3rd, 2005, 02:55 AM

I agree with you that the opposition is why Louisville isnt a very unsightly place to be. While I really cant see most peoples complaints being valid, I really dont care for large scale office parks so far out ... So if it can be re-worked maybe to be closer in, that would be awesome. I also know that you need office space in order to be competative and Louisville doesnt seem to have alot of new office parks like many other cities do. (Even though they look cluttery and cause other cities to look a little bleh out in the suburban areas). So you are damned if you do and damned if you dont.

Nice renderings on those projects though...Im glad to finally see 'The Hub'. With all the office space going up on the outskirts its kinda sad they couldnt make at least a little something downtown...but oh well...thats the way they like it now I guess.

A42251

March 3rd, 2005, 06:09 PM

I don't care if NIMBYs want to raise hell in places like the Blankenbaker Road area, as long as they don't screw up projects inside the old city limits.

Those condos downtown look nice, East Main is gonna be a really great hood in a few years.

LouisvilleS

March 3rd, 2005, 07:52 PM

I follow most of projects going on in the suburbs and in the city and trust me, in the suburbs they never win. The city might be a different story, but suburban NIMBYs have never been able to stop a project from commencing (large-scale projects especially; Oakland Hills off Bardstown Rd., for example).

JTS LOU

March 4th, 2005, 05:06 PM

Alot of talks on the news this week on a new arena downtown. I think one is coming soon. Any thoughts? Ill try to get more specific info.

LouisvilleJake

March 4th, 2005, 09:21 PM

^ I haven't been home in a few weeks, and haven't seen any talk in print, what is going on down there, in regards to an arena?

JTS LOU

March 4th, 2005, 09:51 PM

They showed on the news a replica of what would be the new arena and also they said Louisville will see exponential growth and new business if one is built DOWNTOWN. not in the Churchill Downs Area. but I think the city leaders should jump on this and make it happen.

A42251

March 5th, 2005, 06:17 AM

We need an arena downtown even if there is no NBA team. BTW, the very reason that we missed out on three NBA teams in a two year span is because we had no plan in place to build an arena.

The arena could still be used for U of L basketball and to attract concerts and so fourth. It would work great synergistically with 4th Street Live and all the new hotel construction/renovation going on.

I know that Abramson already has a site designated. It is the block bounded by Second, Third, Liberty, and Ali.

What the hell is the hold up? Stuff happens way too slow in this town.

SChristopher

March 5th, 2005, 06:23 AM

What are the hotels going up besides the Marriott and the Boutique hotel? Things do happen too damn slow there. I would have thought with UofL thrown in that the new arena would have been a done deal asap. What is in the area where you just described, I cant seem to recall ... nothing important I hope, seems kinda like a large area....

A42251

March 5th, 2005, 10:44 AM

SChistopher, in addition to the Marriott and 21C being built, the Galt House is having a $50 million renovation and the Hyatt is going to re-do all of its rooms.

The block I just described as chosen for an arena is an excellent location. Just to the north of it is the new Marriott and just to the west of it is 4th Street Live. If they were to build the arena, no doubt that there would by a ton more development in the surrounding area, much of which is now parking lots and other under-uses.

LouisvilleS

March 5th, 2005, 10:46 PM

I think another restaurant is opening behind the Kohl's near Oxmoor. It's across the street from Bravo! Cucina Italiana and next to Bahama Breeze but I haven't read anything about it. Does anyone know anything about this?

LouisvilleJake

March 5th, 2005, 11:24 PM

JTS LOU

March 6th, 2005, 01:13 AM

Any news on the P.F. Changs or Cheesecake Factory. They are doing work in the Mall St. Matthews spot/It looks as if they are renovating it or getting ready for the CF. They are also changing the food court around and/renovating. At least it looks like it to me but I think they really need to lure a new department store or do some shuffuling with Oxmoor Center. Any thoughts? Downtown Development seems to still be strong. I cant wait till it warms up so you can actually enjoy it down there even though there isnt any retail besides the Wig-Shops/Borders/Foot Locker/Fashion Shop(Women).

gych

March 7th, 2005, 08:16 AM

^ I was wondering about that. I ate at Bravo when I was home 2 weeks ago and there were construction crews out there, but I had heard or read nothing about it. I figured it is just another restaurant being added in. I was half way tempted to drive over and ask what they were building, but not my style. haha.I match the area it will be something new to the city and something upper moderate prive range....but anyopne's guess is as good as mine right now.

The restaurant behind Oxmoor will be a Fox and Hound, a typical crap-o chain I used to see when I lived in Indy. Not the kind of thing we want or need here (support our kickass independents, see www.louisvilleoriginals.com), but oh well, it is new to the area.

Cheesecake has indeed signed on in the spot where Fashion Shop will be at MSM. General Growth of Chicago is trying to the raise the bar on this mall's image. Fashion Shop is not a viable store for a mall of this caliber.

PF Chang's got held up on leasing prices and also by the flooding and snow. They are hoping to open in Hurstbourne by November.

Additionally, Garett's has closed at Shelbyville and Hurstbourne. At the epicenter of sprawl, look for this spot to fill quick....maybe we could land something a LITTLE more upscale? Any thoughts? A Maggiano's would be nice.

LouisvilleJake

March 7th, 2005, 08:59 AM

^Well, isn't that a serious let down. I was hoping for something good...not that. :sigh: oh well. Hopefully it will fail, only to be bought and turned into something actually kinda good.

Cheesecake I knew had signed the lease and were already rolling on getting that place up and running. Good to hear, nice to finally have Cheesecake in Louisville, and a great thing to add in MSM.

PF Chang's seems to be running into problem after problem....which is getting seriously annoying. They were suppossed to be open 6 months ago, and now won't be open for another 8...way to go Chang's.

And I agree...a Maggiano's would be awesome, and would succeed in the market.

JTS LOU

March 8th, 2005, 04:29 AM

The new marriot will open March 28 and its already 150,000 rooms booked to 2007

A42251

March 8th, 2005, 05:59 AM

When are they going to do something with the parking lot on the southeast corner of Fifth and Liberty? It is such an eyesore.

JTS LOU

March 9th, 2005, 01:58 AM

I cant find any renderings on the Internet but The New Cheesecake factory will add a huge face-lift to the Mall St. Matthews Left side. It is scheduled to open in late July or early September. The only thing the mall needs to do now is get rid of Dawahares and a few other stores and it will be an semi-upscale enviroment. Any thoughts? and also if someone finds renderings post them.

A42251

March 9th, 2005, 05:53 AM

^What is going to happen with the former Lord & Taylor space? Does anyone have any idea?

JTS LOU

March 9th, 2005, 06:57 AM

^What is going to happen with the former Lord & Taylor space? Does anyone have any idea?

NO, but I have emailed General Growth many times and they have failed to respond, maybe some other people could try and then im shure they would get the picture or at least reply to someone...

card04

March 9th, 2005, 07:28 AM

It would be great if we finally got an arena, also I heard something about Papa John's Stadium expanding, anybody know anything about this? All I heard is that it was in the state's budget, which I heard that it contains a lot projects for Louisville in it. Which is good news, though I don't know how many or what they are.

Ross

March 9th, 2005, 08:29 PM

hey, just thought id tell you that i have never seen soooo much talking and hardly any pictures!! and thats a good thing because basically the whole of the UK forums are just either arguements or pictures, except the Glasgow forum because we dont have stupid fights like the English wierdos!!

You should check out our Development thread, there is so much happening in our city in terms of building. Has anyone even heard of Glasgow, Scotland??
Ive been to Louisville soo many times, its a great city, but deserves a lot more in terms of developments, from what i remember of some parts (dont know if it has changed much in 2 years), it was quite bare for some parts, but its still great!!

JTS LOU

March 9th, 2005, 10:18 PM

card04

March 10th, 2005, 07:40 AM

Yea, I guess if they completed the bowl it would be pretty large. It would be cool for some summer concerts. I'd still rather see a arena downtown first, as I'm sure most of you all would too. Does anybody have any new info on possible plans? I read somewhere on here about new renderings being shown on the news, any links?

Anyways, I've heard over again how a new arena would stir development in that area, and I started thinking, we have an example of this would work in our own backyard. When Papa John's opened up that area really saw a boost in development. I'm sure there could have been other factors involved considering it's by the fair and expo center and Churchill Downs (which is really looking great with the remodel).

I went to Indiana to look at cars and I was really amazed at all the change. I heard about it but I haven't been to that side of the river in a while. It's really impressive. I was talking to a guy at Coyle Chevrolet about it, he told me that some of the land along Vetrans Parkway is going for a million dollars an acre! I don't know all that facts but that would have to make it some of the most exspensive real estate in the country. Once the Bridges get built that area is going to explode.( They need to hurry up with those) It seems like the whole city experiencing some good growth, even by me in PRP. It seems like whenever I don't go somewhere for like two or three months when I return I see something new. Perhaps this could be the beginning of some population boom? Any thoughts?

SChristopher

March 10th, 2005, 12:05 PM

I think there is a long way before it is going to become a boom...but at least there is some movement finally. Lets hope soon it reaches Charlotte growth I WANT A TOWER! At least more highrise living...

A42251

March 11th, 2005, 01:53 AM

^Aegon is a beautiful centerpiece to our skyline. What we really need are some new buildings to fill in the skyline gaps. Our skyline is way too gappy and there are way too many parking lots downtown. The only parts of DT that feel like a "real city" are West Main Street and 4th Street Live. The whole rest of DT needs to bust out the cranes and get to work big time. A big part of why I want a DT arena is for the surrounding construction it would induce.

JTS LOU

March 11th, 2005, 02:11 AM

A42251

March 12th, 2005, 11:37 PM

I know its off topic but that UL game was awesome today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JTS LOU

March 13th, 2005, 04:52 PM

I know its off topic but that UL game was awesome today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YEA IT WAS..I kept flippin the channel back and fourth b/c they were down but in the end they pulled it off. UL is lucky Washington missed those last two shots though..

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JTS LOU

March 13th, 2005, 04:54 PM

:SMALL INFO:
All Louisville Lazarus-Macy's Stores have the " *Macy's name on them now "

card04

March 13th, 2005, 09:08 PM

I agree with the Louisville game, a lot of people toalk about how pro teams bring a lot of recognition for thier cities, which is no doubt true, but I think U of L brought a lot of attention for Louisville this year. Both the football and basketball teams are ranked in the top ten and have great seasons. It's likely that U of L is one of the best all- around sports schools in the country.
I think everybody on this forum would be very glad to see some new towers downtown. I myself would like to see a 600-700 tower built downtown along with some infill projects. Theres nothing uglier to see in the heart of a city than parking lots. Is there, or was thier ever a need for so many. The land they sit on is very valuable wouldn't it be a better idea to build two or so parking garages with the same capacity. At least you can make them somewhat appealing. If i was given a choice to what I would have built downtown it would definately be an arena.

JTS LOU

March 14th, 2005, 01:03 AM

gych

March 15th, 2005, 08:03 PM

NO, but I have emailed General Growth many times and they have failed to respond, maybe some other people could try and then im shure they would get the picture or at least reply to someone...

Well, here is my BREAKING NEWS from General Growth. This is an email they sent me after I basically said Louisville's retail scene is bullshit for its size.

Dear Mr. Passy:

I apologize for my delay responding to your email. As I'm sure you can imagine we have been very busy with General Growths two new properties with so much going on. We do appreciate your comments and I am going to try to give you some insight into our thinking.
Saks has been a retailer which both Oxmoor and Mall St Matts. has been trying to bring to this market for years, however they still don't see Louisville as large enough and they are not pleased with their sales volume in Cincinnati. We have given a lot of thought about merchandising the two centers differently however, both malls have been very successful in the passed and as they say "if its no broke don't fix it". For this reason we are going to continue to bring in national tenants particularly those not already located in this market at both locations. As leases expire those less desirable tenants will not be renewed. Our focus is to make the combined properties the"Hub" of retailing in this area. and with this strength we can expand our market. With regard to department stores the choices are not all that good, Marshall Field's would be a nice addition and with the recent sale of May to Federated that may be a possibility in the future.
Keep in mind General Growth has only been in Louisville now for approximately 125 days and changes have already started. I think over the next 365 days you will see a lot of changes which will meet with your approval. We intend on making both Oxmoor and Mall St. Matts malls that shoppers will be proud to have in the community.
Thank you for your thoughts.

Ken Young
Senior General Manager
Oxmoor Center / Mall St. Matthews
7900 Shelbyville Rd.
Louisville, Kentucky 40222
502 426 3000 Phone
502 425 3417 Fax

So this is the guy you wanna email. Schris, notice the DIRECT shot he takes at Cincy and their awful performing Saks store. Damn you Cincy, you are holding us back! I also find it funny that he cannot spell and his grammar is horrible. Oh well, we have them admitting that the department stores suck here and they plan on changing that. They wont let stores like Rave hang on forever. But it looks as if Saks is out of the question :( One question though, would Marshall Field's be that much of an improvement?

LouisvilleJake

March 15th, 2005, 10:46 PM

LouisvilleS

March 15th, 2005, 11:17 PM

Saks is going through some hard times with competition from Neiman Marcus and Nordstrom.

So far this year they've closed their Hilton Head, SC; La Jolla, CA; Pasadena, CA; Carmel, CA; Garden City, NY; Country Club Plaza (KC), MO; and Minneapolis, MN, stores and the store in Hurst, TX, in the process of closing. They also closed the White Plains and Lincoln Square stores in 2001, so Saks is facing some big problems. I don't expect them to open another store for a while (I'd be surprised if the one at Triangle Town Center in Raleigh opens/stays open).

gych

March 16th, 2005, 12:48 AM

^Interesting email, and piss poor grammar btw. haha, oh well.

I was seriously surprised when Saks even stayed in Cincinnati, although the city certainly did give them a nice chunk of change to stick it out for awhiles. I also find it hard for them to say that Louisville is "too small" considering they have stores in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Birmingham, Alabama, Raleigh, North Carolina, et cetera. Of course, I've never been an advocate of luring Saks, I'd prefer a Nordstrom and Neiman Marcus, however, I know NM will not ever happen. (Not that I'd be against Saks, lol, just prefer the other two more)

My mom works at Oxmoor and that is basically what she had already been told. They are focusing on getting one of a kind stores in both malls now, and expct to have Oxmoor's first floor full by Thanksgiving. So they better get a move on! Lots of stores open in the Von Maur wing, and also towards Dick's. She said they're tying in leases in other cities to opening new stores in Louisville...good idea if you think about it.

And about Marshall Field's. Blah. Might as well become Dillard's part TROIS. The only good Fields are State Street and Water Tower...the rest are Macy/Dillard/Kauffman et cetera quality. Nothing to write home to mom about...

Fields sucks, at least the one in South Bend, IN did. I left Indy before their Saks opened, but how does the current selection of labels in louisville campared to Indy. Anyone been to Rodes? You can get Armani, Choo, Burberry, Zegna, etc out there. I believe Curve on Frankfort sells Miu Miu, and some trendy jeans liek paper denim, etc. Overall, how does the Louisville designer labels compare to what you can find in cincy and indy?

Also, what does this guy mean by bringing "unique" stores to Louisville? What type of store can he pull do u think?

LouisvilleJake

March 16th, 2005, 12:56 AM

You can find the same stuff in Louisville as Indianapolis or Cincinnati, generally. (except I cannot get Kiehl's products ANYWHERE in Louisville. IT PISSES ME OFF)

You just have to look harder for it. The Saks in Indianapolis is quite nice, however I have always been turned off by Saks. I cannot explain it, I just really prefer Nordstrom and Neiman Marcus.

And I don't think we'll be jumping for joy when they start to fill up Oxmoor. My guess is that they will get some more basic mall fare that Louisville lacks -- A L'Occitane, maybe an Apple Store, stuff like that is what I think they have envisioned. Nothing super great, but things the city has needed for a long time.

JTS LOU

March 16th, 2005, 04:03 AM

But Really... We do deserve a Department Store such as Nordstrom in the Louisville area. I have to say that the Macy's sign at Oxmoor Center looks good and Von Maur though not so so upscale has a very well thoughtout and designed store which makes it look Upscale to people who have never been to one before.

I would like to see a H & M opem at one of the Malls. They have them in Chicago, Providence, New York, Manchester, Conn., and they are about to open one in Indianapolis and Ft. Wayne(?). I believe Louisville could land one of these in the next year. They are opening new US stores all the time. Any Thoughts?

LouisvilleJake

March 16th, 2005, 04:17 AM

Of course Louisville will get an H&M...if Fort Wayne can get one, surely to God Louisville can too. They simply have to find the space to build....because they like to build in malls and like to build BIG. I could see an H&M doing fabulously well in Mall St Matthews. Perhaps we could kick out Dawahares next and replace it with H&M...wouldn't that be nice.

SChristopher

March 16th, 2005, 04:51 AM

The Saks store in Cincinnati doing poorly most likely has to do with the quality of the store.....it is a dump, it looks like JC Penney, and Downtown Cincinnati isnt exactly the upscale shopping destination extroidinare. (even though I have heard Tiffany does well)

At the same time I have also heard of Indianapolis' Saks doing well, and it is a nicer and newer store, and is in a great location so I am sure that has alot to do with that. I dont think basing their locations on how other cities have done is moot because New Orleans I thought was one of the best performing in their portfolio in a seemingly less wealthy city of 1.3? million.

Marshall Fields sucks and I doubt they will be around much longer. I also doubt Nordstrom will come just because of their past dealings with Louisville and Cincinnati. They arent a very friendly company either and usually want some type of money to set up shop, which to me is just rediculous.

JTS LOU

March 16th, 2005, 11:11 PM

card04

March 16th, 2005, 11:53 PM

When did this go from a development thread to a fashion thread?...lol Anyways I have noticed that Dixie Hwy has seen a bit of new development. Sam Swope is expanding to include a Saturn of Louisville, Golden Corral, a new Best Western, with two different buildings in front of that.(I'm not sure what those two are going to be), Sears is going in where the K-mart is. I know this is nothing compared to Hurstborne, or anything east of Bardstown rd but hey it's a start. Another area that is really coming along is South Preston Hwy, that place has changed dramtically in the past seven years or so.

gych

March 17th, 2005, 04:05 AM

Now all we need is a Starbucks and a bookstore in the W/SW metro for heaven's sake! Honestly, is ther even ONE bookstore west of 65 except for the Borders downtown? People in the SW Metro are not THAT uneducated and uncultured. Geese.

LouisvilleS

March 17th, 2005, 05:11 AM

I really think it will be a while before any place west of I-65 gets a Starbucks. They're supposed to open 10 more stores in the Louisville area before the end of the year and I could probably name where they're going to go (I'm a dork, I know LOL): Forest Springs, Landis Lakes, Blankenbaker Pkwy. (or Tucker Station shopping center), Downtown Jeffersontown, Fern Creek, Strathmoor (near Taylorsville and Bardstown Rd.), Clifton, Marriott Downtown, Clarksville, and probably one in Mall St. Matthews.

LouisvilleS

March 17th, 2005, 05:19 AM

hahaha...geese

SChristopher

March 17th, 2005, 05:21 AM

hahaha...geese

HAHA you got that right...those uncultured boobs! Geese! :)

http://www.brantacan.co.uk/images/Dom4.jpg

gych

March 17th, 2005, 05:38 AM

very funny guys...anways, i was thinking about it. The lack of national chains in Old Louisville and the S and SW area are PERFECT excuses for downtown to draw them. I mean, just random stuff like more starbucks, panera, hell even TJ maxx, etc. You no they are not going in the SW metro, so oh well. Theres a good article in the courier today about the city funding underserved hoods.

The premise is good, but that area they call "germantown" is actually on the edge of the overserved Highlands (come on by Lynn's Paradise cafe on Barret?). These loans need to go to places like southside dr. and dixie where you cannot even find a cleaners or coffee shop it seems.

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050316/NEWS0102/503160307/1027

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050316/NEWS0102/503160336/1027

Is this a good growth rate for a suburban county?

gych

March 17th, 2005, 07:20 AM

nore BREAKING NEWS lol.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3087589&nav=0RZEXZzR

so the knuckleheads have finally wised up! I am not gonna hold my breath, and we still have naysayers. I love the guy who said "we dont have teh population." What the hell? Will the rednecks PLEASE quit infiltrating our city? We are a metro of 1.3 million and we cant even support a college arena downtown? PUHLEASE. Hell even Des Moines, yes Iowa has a downtown arena. We MUST build one with or without the NBA. But it should be an NBA/concert/NCAA worthy arena (at least for the regionals).

card04

March 17th, 2005, 09:03 AM

GREAT NEWS Gych, thanks for the link. As far as the comment about the population, believe it or not some people actually don't realize how large Louisville is. I have spoken to many people who act surprised when I tell them Louisville's population. Hopefully the people at city hall will not get our hopes up this time. It seems like even the governor is behind the idea of an arena, now all we need is U of L. Lets hope they go far in the tourney this year so there will be a lot of excitement around basketball...and the possiblity of a new arena will be within sight even more. I am almost certain if the U of L basketball team were to win the NCAA tournament that U of L will probably look into a new arena more favorably.
BTW gych as a resident of SW Louisville I must say I was somewhat offended when you said we're not that uneducated or uncultured. I'm at U of L with a 3.75 GPA so I don't feel as I am in the group your talking about, but I do come from a blue collar family. My father makes pretty good money well above the average for this city, but he also works a good 70 hours a week. He didn't go to college but he works hard for what he has, and I'm proud of him.
I will agree that for the most part many people in that area aren't that educated, and probably haven't attended anything to do with the arts since grade school, but also for the most part they are good people. You probably won't see too many people from this area shopping in any Saks but that doesn't mean they only shop at Wal-Mart. Just because they're blue collar doesn't mean that they don't have any money. I know of several that make a good amount of money.
Being in college, I don't have any less respect for those who don't go, but choose to work in factories and end up living on the Dixie Hwy's of this country. I wouldn't even go as far as to call them uneducated, what they know, they know well. The economy rides on the backs of these people, so I think we owe them some respect.

gych

March 17th, 2005, 09:14 AM

^^^ Agreed, but the city govt officials, the general populace, and even the national chains give the SW metro ZERO credit. The population and population density from Shively to Valley station is extremely high (maybe 150k or more?), yet you cant find a bookstore along the ENTIRE strip. Look at a similar corridor like Shelbyville and hell, theres like 2 or 3 major bookstores. I just dont get it, thats all i was saying. Most people in say, PRP are more friendly than the punks who live in Prospect and places like that.

raqoff25

March 17th, 2005, 06:10 PM

Hey does anyone know when Waterfront Park Place officially opens to residents? It looks finished, but I didn't know if there was still interior work, etc.
Thanks

LouisvilleJake

March 17th, 2005, 06:55 PM

I had no idea they were kicking around the idea of a hotel connected to the Expo Center....but looks like the state may make it happen. Hopefully, if this pans out, they can lure a Starwood property to town. That'd be nice.

http://cmsimg.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=B2&Date=20050317&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=503170407&Ref=AR&MaxW=230

Plans for a 500-room hotel connected by pedway to the Kentucky Fair & Exposition Center get a boost in the new state budget, which allocates money to move a state highway office out of the hotel's path.

The budget authorizes the state Transportation Cabinet to spend $6.45 million to close its District 5 headquarters on Phillips Lane and build offices elsewhere. The district includes Jefferson and seven surrounding counties.

Fair Board President Harold Workman said he expects to sign an agreement soon to acquire the five-acre property on Phillips Lane, adjacent to the fairgrounds' Gate 1. By year's end, he said, the board intends to solicit bids from major chains wanting to develop the hotel.

Workman said a new full-service hotel has been on the fair board's master plan for years and is needed to "keep a level playing field with the competition," including St. Louis, Indianapolis and Columbus.

"Users want a flag hotel with at least 500 rooms and a pedway connection" to the primary convention quarters, he said. Workman hopes the hotel could open by 2008.

The board would lease the old highway property to the hotel developer and negotiate the cost of the pedway across Ring Road to the South Wing, which is now being expanded, he said.

With the South Wing addition and the pending renovation of the East Wing, the fairgrounds will have 1.2 million square feet of space, three-fourths of it considered "Class A" -- column-free, with high ceilings and in-floor utility wells.

Including some additions in recent years, there are now 12 hotels with about 2,200 rooms ringing the fairgrounds, Workman said. But many of them are small and less than full-service, and several cater to extended stays.

Two of the oldest and largest are the 611-room Executive West and the 472-room Executive Inn, on Phillips near the fairgrounds' main entrance.

Joe Mittel, who oversees those properties for the family of the late Al Schneider, said the hotel company is spending $13 million to renovate the Executive West and plans to renovate the Executive Inn later.

Mittel said he believes a major hotel at the fairgrounds "would bring some credibility to the area" and, in the long run, provide "an opportunity for more business for everyone."

Workman expressed confidence that the expansion of the South Wing, a $52 million project expected to be completed this fall, and the renovation of the East Wing, for which the General Assembly recently authorized $55 million, will bring in enough new business to keep all area hotels full much of the time.

Workman said the 2003 state budget authorized the fair board to spend $500,000 to buy the Transportation Cabinet land. Ironically, the fair board sold that parcel to the Highway Department in 1963 for $63,000 so it could build the District 5 office, he said.

Michael Goins, state Transportation Cabinet spokesman, said no decision has been made on a final location for the new district highway office. Officials have said for years that the district needs more office space.

Rande Swann, spokeswoman for the Regional Airport Authority, said officials are "putting together a proposal" of land south of Louisville International Airport that might be available. She called talks with highway officials preliminary.

LouisvilleS

March 17th, 2005, 07:34 PM

I thought that Wyndham still had dibs on the expo center/airport hotel. :?

SChristopher

March 17th, 2005, 07:59 PM

Here is a blurb from a bizjournals artical on 2-21-05 :

Another ongoing project is a planned Wyndham Hotel that will connect to Louisville International. The project was sent back to designers for modifications in December after bids from contractors came in at about $34 million, which was about $13 million higher than expected. The original plan, designed by Atlanta-based PFVS Architects, called for a 225-room, seven-floor hotel connected directly to the airport. No timetable has been set, Miller said, for the revised plans to come before the airport authority board. Once that occurs, the project will have to be re-bid. "We were disappointed and surprised" that the bids came in higher than expected, Miller said. He added that airport authority board members have not expressed to him a desire to carry the project forward if it cannot be built as a luxury hotel.
"Right now, we're looking for ways to reduce the project back to budget and still maintain the four-star signature hotel we want at the airport," Miller said. "It's really walking a fine line."

ALSO What I found interesting :
Work also has begun on the relocation of Martha Moloney Drive, at the northwest corner of Louisville International, which will allow the airport to extend the west runway to approximately 12,500 feet.

Anywho I cut that out of a big article that is here :
http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2005/02/21/story3.html?page=4

I think those are probably two different projects, I also doubt that this one will ever happen unfortunately.

gych

March 17th, 2005, 09:47 PM

WFPP has had residents since this summer I believe. Most of the condos are totally done...I just think they are having problems selling the last few. I hear it is 75% full but for some reason parts of the exterior arent even finished! An interesting thing to do is go to the homes section of courier-journal.com. There you will find at least 10 WFPP condos still for sale. Most are in the 1.5 million range.

SChris, why do you find it interesting they are expanding the runway? By the way, the Wyndham terminal hotel will actually be IN/Connected to the airport.

This new 500 room hotel planned for the fairgrounds is a separate plan that the legislators are adamant about. It will happen just bc they jock the idea so hard, although I dont know why. (BUILD THE FREAKING DOWNTOWN ARENA YOU REDNECKS!!!!!!!) lol

JTS LOU

March 17th, 2005, 11:05 PM

The Mayor is very serious this time about the new arena and so are the state people.. But I think whats really getting this project going is that they now know that Louisville cannot compete with cities such as Des Moines or other smaller cities for concerts, NCAA regionals, ect.. b/c we dont have an up-to-date arena. Even little o Billings, MT gets a concert before Louisville does and We have more people in The Metro that the whole state of Montana(beautiful place though).

SChristopher

March 17th, 2005, 11:18 PM

I just meant it was a point of interest....as in jeez finally...that airport isnt exactly airport of airports. :-/

It seems like whatever is proposed in Louisville gets at least 3-5 years of conflict, unless of course it is a sprawling office park, even then it gets a good 1-2 years of conflict. It is no wonder developers havnt really tried that hard to get in that market.

LouisvilleJake

March 18th, 2005, 12:36 AM

They are expanding the runway to compete with Memphis/FedEx....this way, UPS can use our airport to load their planes heavier, and use their new planes to fly directly to China nonstop. The money has already been secured by Northup.

The hotel at the fairground is a completely seperate subject than the hotel at the airport.

The airport authority is really working to make sure the Wyndham happens, and until they've exhausted every option, it is still a go. It will be connected directly to the terminal, which is a nice ammenity for the airport, which actually quite a nice airport. We're a third tier market and have a fully renovated, compact, and convienent airport. I for one know many people from other cities who have said they would prefer a small, cheap, centrally located airport like ours. It may not be "airport of airports" but I'll take it over most anyday.

gych

March 18th, 2005, 09:41 AM

24 hr grocery or 7/11 type convenience mart downtown??? I dont think there are any!!! Theres a 24 hr walgreens on spring in jeff. will the new walgreens on broadway be 24hr????????

SChristopher

March 18th, 2005, 09:53 AM

Boo to walgreens...what can you get there some bacon milk and chips. I am disappointed that there isnt at least a little private grocery.

Gych, sorry bout the geese thought youd get a laugh :).

Jake I wanst saying the airport was ghastly but it needs to be more competative...thats what I was saying by the its about time runway expansion..... I will bet we have a few years on the airport hotel, people are fickel.....

JTS LOU

March 22nd, 2005, 03:42 PM

They have been arguing on the news and on Hot button(Wave 3) about the stadium going downtown or the fairgrounds. Most people want it downtown but the UofL people want it at the fairgrounds but the thing is they only use the stadium 16 -18 nights out of the whole year and that gives the other 340 somethin days for the rest of the city to enjoy concerts,ect.. in a downtown enviroment. It would also pay off in the long run for it to be downtown and why put it in the fairgrounds when Freedom Hall can also hold events its not dead you know its only old.

gych

March 23rd, 2005, 04:42 AM

I saw that poll on Wave 3. What sickens me is that 57% of the people as of yesterday still thought the new arena should be at the Fairgrounds! How blind are these people!!! Have they not seen what they have in Nashville after Louisville had to play there? Do they not get sick of driving to Indy for concerts? How about Cincy? Do that know that small, wanna be cities like Des Moines and hell, even Lexington get more concerts and big time events than Louisville? Do they know we use one of the oldest arenas in the country here, and that many cities including Indy have built 3-5 different stadiums for all sports since we built the Hall? Do they know that arenas bring poeple downtown....wait, I forgot we are in KY!

gych

March 23rd, 2005, 07:49 AM

ah ha! It has been confirmed:

http://www.whas11.com/news/local/stories/WHAS11_TOP_DownardMayoralBid.162b1f298.html

kelly downard will give Mayor Jerry a serious challenge and said something i really liked--that we have stood idly by and watched indy and now nashville pass us in the last 20 or 25 years.

Soulbrotha

March 23rd, 2005, 06:27 PM

if he wins, i'll move to nashville.. lol

JTS LOU

March 24th, 2005, 04:22 AM

if he wins, i'll move to nashville.. lol

Who? Kelley or Jerry b/c as much as I love Jerry Kelley made a great statement about Nashville and Indianapolis passing us up FAST. lol.. Even though we are steadily growing.

LouisvilleJake

March 24th, 2005, 05:42 AM

Right now, I have a bitter taste in my mouth about Downard, but I am more than willing to hear to what he has to say, and if were to push the right types of urban issues, I'd pick him over Jerry

LouisvilleJake

March 24th, 2005, 05:46 AM

Few more details about some of the stuff popping up in Clarksville from Business First

This year, Southern Indiana residents will have an opportunity to do some Christmas shopping at Bed Bath & Beyond, Best Buy and Old Navy without visiting those stores' locations across the river.

The retailers are three of the tenants slated for Waterford Park North, a $25 million development shaping up along Veterans Parkway in Clarksville.

Business First previously reported that Waterford Park LLC, the entity overseeing the 234,824-square-foot development, was in negotiations with several retailers and restaurants that were vying for a spot in the shopping center, which is described as being similar to The Summit in northeastern Louisville.

The demand for space was so great that Waterford Park partners expanded the project, creating another development company, Veterans Properties LLC, to oversee Waterford Park South, a nearby $15 million, 107,196-square-foot retail center.

Now, Gary McCartin, a partner in both companies, said he has finalized nearly all of the lease agreements for Waterford Park North, landing a variety of retailers that are new to Southern Indiana.

12 tenants signed for first project
The retail tenants in Waterford Park North, in order of location from east to west, are:

Target, adepartment store that will occupy 125,400 square feet.
Lane Bryant, a women's clothing store that will occupy 5,025 square feet.
Old Navy, a family clothing store that will occupy 14,803 square feet.
Best Buy, an electronics store that will occupy 30,154 square feet.
Bed Bath & Beyond, a household goods store that will occupy 25,020 square feet.
Kirkland's,a home decor store that will occupy 7,000 square feet.
Dress Barn, a women's clothing store that might occupy 6,512 square feet; the lease has not been finalized.
Justice, a new clothing store that carries merchandise for girls ages 7 to 14. Owned by The Limited Inc. spin-off Too Inc., the store will occupy 3,880 square feet.
After Hours Formalwear, a tuxedo and men's formal wear store that will occupy 1,530 square feet.
And David's Bridal, a wedding store that will occupy 8,000 square feet.
In addition, the development has two outlots, which will be occupied by First Federal Savings Bank of Elizabethtown and a Dairy Queen concept called DQ Grill & Chill. Instead of the chain's traditional fast-food locations, DQ Grill & Chill features more of a fast-casual dining atmosphere with an expanded menu.

Restaurants signed for Waterford Park South
Now that Waterford Park North is leased, McCartin said, he plans to turn his attention to Waterford Park South.

Business First reported in July that Smith's Furniture, Appliances & Electronics Inc. had signed a lease for 27,000 square feet in Waterford Park South. At the time, the company was the only confirmed tenant, although McCartin was in negotiations with several other businesses.

Since then, four restaurants have come on board with Moe's Southwest Grill signing for a 3,500-square-foot space adjacent to Smith's Furniture, and Panera Bread, LongHorn Steakhouse and Johnny Carino's Italian filling the three outlots along the front of the development.

The remaining space in Waterford Park South will be filled by retailers that Waterford Park North was not able to accommodate, McCartin said.

For instance, he is in negotiations with PetsMart, and he expects to finalize that deal and others within the next few months.

McCartin said he is excited about the changes coming to Southern Indiana and the fact that he has had a hand in shaping the new retail corridor.

As a resident of the area himself, McCartin said, he has a personal interest in having a high caliber of restaurants and retailers in his developments.

JTS LOU

March 24th, 2005, 10:35 PM

That sounds cool. Its about time they got Old Navy and Best Buy, they deserve it over there

card04

March 25th, 2005, 09:00 AM

I'd like to take the time to give my congrats to the cards, they've played great this season, I have faith that they can continue on to St.Louis. People always talk about pro sports giving a city some recognition( no doubt that it does), but I think they have definately given us some positive recognition.
As far as Kelly Downard for mayor is concerned, he sounds interesting. I'd like to see his plans to catch up, hopefully he has some good plans. In all fairness though I don't think Jerry has been that bad. Sure Louisville has been falling behind it's neighbors, but blame can't be placed on one person, or heck even to once cause. Jerry can be credited with Waterfront Park, slugger field, helping push merger, and so on. Louisville has been falling behind since the 1960's, it's now finally starting to come around. Not as fast as most people on here would like it to, but cities just don't make 180 degree turn arounds over night. I have no doubt that downtown will eventually get a new arena, and downtown (as long as the trends don't change) will be full of all the entertainment, shopping, culture,etc that we could hope for. What Louisville needs really is job growth, people won't move here because we have a new arena, they wil move if there are good job prospects here. If a canidate has a really good idea for jobs and a progressive way of thinking,and favors an arena downtown, he will win my vote.

card04

March 25th, 2005, 09:01 AM

Soul, what are your objections to Kelly Downard? If I may ask.

Soulbrotha

March 25th, 2005, 05:08 PM

you don't think rebulicans care about the west end do you? if he wins, i see it getting worst. IMO

card04

March 25th, 2005, 05:19 PM

I think Republicans care about the west end, you can't stereotype republicans as all being wealthy old guys who only care for the rich anymore than I can stereotype democrats for being communist or even socialist (though some that I know of I really wonder about). I'm an registered republican but I'm not old, rich, and I do care about the poor. You can't go by party lines, you need to learn what their ideas are, you also can't only be concerned with one area of town. Yes the westend has problems and needs help, but Louisville can't put all it's money and energy into it,or even a majority. Not only would that not be fair but I would'nt be efficient. Money should be invested in west Louisville,yet money should mostly be invested into making the whole city better, and put where it will be most effective.

Soulbrotha

March 25th, 2005, 05:35 PM

and money isn't the only way to make a neighborhood better...nobodies begging for money...the issue is loosing the money we already have.

JTS LOU

March 25th, 2005, 10:32 PM

I think Louisville is looking positive in the future. In every area the city seems to be growing besides the west end but I see it looking brighter in the future. A new 5,000 sq ft house was just built by a comfortable Black family around shawnee park..and all the housing projects and stuff look alot nicer.. All there is, is time to see what Louisville can do. I would really like to see more highrise condo-office development downtown.

Soulbrotha

March 26th, 2005, 12:19 AM

i was downtown last night taking photos and some homeless guy got stabbed and died at a Tarc stop on second & market, it was pretty close to the 2nd st. bridge :(

gych

March 29th, 2005, 08:11 PM

LouisvilleJake

March 29th, 2005, 09:26 PM

^The architectual style is supossedly similar to The Summit, but you're right, it is nothing more than an upscale development a la Hurstborne style.

Indiana should easily get a GAP...it should have had one years ago. Banana, I dunno....they seem to go in more upscale and more populated areas than the Clarksville trade area. GAP, my guess, will go in the transformed and reformed River Falls open air complex or Jeffersonville Town Center...Greentree is pretty full now with Dillards having eaten a whole third of it, haha.

Jeffersonville Town Center has, what I gleaned, been transformed from a strcitly retail entity, to a retail/hotel/office project. They have plans for a "new" department store to the area, plenty of small shops (there are tons that are absent from the metro as whole that may use this as a starting point) but also some office space and a new hotel....God only know how they will support 4 new hotels in Clarksville/Jeffersonville, but we'll see I guess.

McCartin has filled Waterford Park North, and is now trying to coax people into his development directly across the road called Waterford Park South. He has been in talks with Petsmart, but needs more tenants like them....so I would not be surprised to see either Borders/Barnes&Noble and a Trader Joe's/Wild Oats/Whole Foods join that center, plus a plethera of smaller places pop up in there too. Veteran's Parkway has been mentioned to be the hottest corridor in the state of Indiana right now, and they're proving that it really is. Clarksville is suddenly getting recognition from some big hitters in the retail world and a year from now that is going to be a whole new town.

JTS LOU

March 29th, 2005, 10:35 PM

It will be really nice to see Louisville sorta level out though instead of everything in the east end.. OUTER LOOP deserves The Gap also. A bookstore in the south-Southwest end is needed also.. I heard rainbow blossum or whatever the Healthy food store is will be opening a location on dixie hwy. this year.

gych

March 30th, 2005, 03:50 AM

^^yes jtslou, it has been confirmed that Rainbow Blossom (a local version of Whole foods that is only about half as good) will open near PRP. I dont see more of these local type of chains dont try to open in the S and SW metro.

As Jake has proved, S. Indiana is now becoming an actual viable suburb of Louisville with all the retail going in. I imagine realtors showing houses to middle and upper middle class transfers from other cities may start showing more stuff in Indiana (and quit promoting only the east side) with all the amenities goin in over there.

But imagine trying to show someone even from the rustbelt, say Cleveland, the PRP/Valley area. You are a realtor and they ask where the nearest Starbucks and Borders are....your repy--uh, downtown I guess!

Also, I would like to see the mayor do more to promote more immigrants moving to the actual city. Id say the areas just SW of downtown near the old 7th street industrial corridor need some serious help. Why not try and get Hispanics to repopulate these areas as they have done in hoardes of other cities?

card04

March 30th, 2005, 07:58 AM

I think a mostly spanish area in Louisville would be kind of interesting from a cultural stand point, even more so if they were able to bring some spanish influence into the architecture of that area. I've always wondered what Louisville would be like if it has a "little Havanna" type area, I believe it would distinguish it a bit from other cities in the region.

JTS LOU

March 30th, 2005, 10:45 PM

That would be great for that area b/c its basically going to waste and why not put that in the area b/c for real that area isnt to bad and could be very beautiful especially around central Pkwy.. it would only benifit the area.

Jeff

March 30th, 2005, 11:34 PM

Interesting to see the discussion on SW County here.

Tho a native Chicagoan I used to live in Valley Station, off of East Pages Lane (walking distance from Bobby Nichols GC, Waverly Hills, and Waverly Lake), from 1971 into 1984 (my jr. high, high school, and college years...part time while in college), so I'm somewhat familiar with the area. I have returned numerous times on visits so am familiar with the big changes that SW County has undergone since my days there.

To give you an idea of the changes, when I lived in Valley Station, there where still working farms on Pages Lane, and there was nothing between Jesse Stuart & Villa Anna and my subdivision except a sandpit, forests, hills, dead fields and wet prairie, and a free flowing creek (not a drainage ditch). No hospital, no Stonetstreet Rd extension, no JCC SW. Nothing but an old part log farmhouse. "Stoneridge" was forested hills and hollows, and some abandonded dynamite shacks up an overgown lane (the place was used by a dynamite company to store stuff during WWII)...the top of the hill was pasture with cows in it, and fabulous viewes toward the Knobs and Indiana hills.

Some of your alls discussion is familiar from my days, too. Lack of retail. Well, there was Dixie Manor at one time, which had LS Ayres (a Indianapolis-based dept. store) and Ben Snyders as anchors. And there was that Bacons in Shively (now a Dillards?). And the K-Mart style retail up and down Dixie. In the mid 70s there was a small mall (including a two or three screen cinema) next to what is now a Target and Value City furniture store (then it was Grants and Consolidated), but it failed.

The area came close to getting a major mall once. Back around 1980-81 or so Homart, the land development subsidiary of Sears, came close to building a mall off of Greenwood Road and Terrry Lane, in Pleasure Ridge. For some reason Homart thought better and the deal fell through. That was the last attempt to do major retail in the area as far as I know (except for a strip center down in Valley Station ...i think either a Wal Mart or K Mart is the anchor. And there is that big Meijer south of Johnstontown Road.

There has always been the lament about the lack of a bookstore. Well, there was one in that failed mall, but it went under pretty quick. So I can guess there is no market for one in the area. You can drive to the East End to Carmichaels or one of the chains pretty quick now via the Gene Snyder, so no real need for one off of Dixie. Same with fancy restaurants. There are Mexican places and and Applebees and Kingfish and some mom & pop places for eating out, so thats enough.

The stereotype of SW County being blue collar was not particularly true even back in the 1970s, as the area had proffesionals and small buisness owners and management types back then already. It also had military folks affilliated w. Fort Knox, who didn't want to live in Radcliff, as well as retired military. The area never had the snob appeal of the East End, and still doesn't, but people into snob appeal are not the kind of folks who live SW.

I am pretty impressed w. the residential boom going on. Most of the vacant land that used to seperate subdivisions seems to be going under developement, and subdivisions that had not seen growth since the early 70s are now expanding (Leemont Acres off of Deering Rd comes to mind). Also, the Riverport, which was first developed during my time but was a white elephant, has really exploded. Shocking to see the magnitude of industrial and warehouse developement there.

What does not impress me is the low quality of the site planning on the developements in the Knobs, especially the outrider hill country betweeen, say, JCC Southwest and Iroqouis Park....Waverly Hills, Cardinal Hill, Redstone Hill, and related ridges and hollows. A late 1960s/ealry 70s subdivision, Windsor Forest, was a model on how those hills should be subdivided as the developer reserved strips of forest and open space on the steeper slopes that had unstable soil. These corridors of forest belts had walking trails that connected back to Waverly Park and to a pond in the middle of the subdivision (probably an old pay-lake), which was developed as a park. And the lots where nice and big, too.

Although the houses are big, the current developments don't seem to be as sensitive as Windsor Forest to the landscape and topography.

And its the topography, the Knobs country, that is the real scenic asset of the Southwest County. Thank God that the county aquired alot of the higher peaks and ridges for that Memorial Forest, which is one of Louisvilles true landscape treasures.

Well, I've rattled on enough. Interesting discussion here. Given some of the posts on the place I can see I need to make a visit to the Indiana side next time I'm down.

JTS LOU

March 31st, 2005, 12:51 AM

Jeff

March 31st, 2005, 01:36 AM

I believe some of those hills will start to develope with Upscale Housing projects in the next 4-8 years. Many if not all the new homes being built in the area are from 180,000-400,000 which is quite a bit of change for SW Louisville homes. A 180,000 would get you probably 3-4 bedrooms, 2 baths, and about 1700-2400 sq.ft. A 400,000 would probably get you 5 bedrooms, 3 1/2-5 bathrooms, and about 3200-4500 sq.ft.

If you are talking about the Knobs south of the Gene Snyder, the area I''d expect the first to develop would be Blevins Gap Road, as it has water, and I think sewer, as well as being accessible to the Gene Snyder from the Stonestreet Rd. exit. Another area that could be prime for developement would be Bearcamp Road, but not sure about services there.

Some of higher elevations, the ones not part of the Memorial Forest, don't have water...or didn't back in the '70s. The houses up there used to be on cisterns and got their water delivered by truck.

LouisvilleJake

March 31st, 2005, 08:25 PM

Good to see the councal may be taking this seriously yet again. Lets hope third time is a charm...

Members of the Louisville Metro Council may use the momentum the University of Louisville men's basketball team has created in reaching the NCAA Final Four to restart the discussion about a new home for the team.

Council President Barbara Shanklin, D-District 2, and Councilman Dan Johnson, D-District 21, are planning to form a Metro Council committee to discuss the possibility of building a downtown arena that could be funded through the issuance of bonds.

The committee, which will be led by Johnson, is expected to be announced as early as today, according to Jennifer Brislin, communications director for the council's majority caucus.

Johnson, who is chairman of the Metro Council's Appropriations, Finance & Administration committee, has long been an outspoken advocate for a new arena.

On Wednesday, William L. Skees Jr., an attorney with Frost Brown Todd LLC, spoke to Johnson's committee, which considers issuance of bonds recommended by the Metro Development Committee. Skees told members that interest rates now are lower and that local government has an excellent credit rating, which would allow Louisville-Jefferson County Metro Government to help finance the project.

Johnson could not immediately be reached for comment.

Brislin said the committee initially will include three Democrats and three Republicans who will be selected by the respective caucuses. Shanklin also will reserve a spot on the committee for the person who replaces Metro Councilman Willie Bright, who died March 19.

Bright was chairman of the Metro Development Committee, which considers issues related to economic development, including capital projects and tax and financing proposals.

The arena committee initially will include only members of the Metro Council but might later include representatives from the community -- something Johnson would like, Brislin said.

Harold Workman, president and CEO of the Kentucky State Fair Board, which operates U of L's current home, Freedom Hall, said he has not been contacted about the arena committee but would support "whatever the major user, the University of Louisville, and the public want."

Officials from U of L could not immediately be reached for comment.

This is at least the third time in recent years that local government has talked about building a new arena. The two previous attempts involved trying to lure an NBA team to Louisville

Jeff

April 1st, 2005, 12:06 AM

So whats wrong w. Freedom Hall? It seems pretty big too me.

And why does Louisville need and NBA team when it has such a good college team in UofL? There was an attempt at a pro-basketball team back in the late 60s/early 70s, the Kentucky Colonels, and they folded or where sold (not sure if they where NBA or ABA)...this whole pro-sports wish makes zero sense to me.

I can see maybe rebuilding or modernizing Freedom Hall for the Cards as it is a great location for a high-volume venue that would require alot of parking. The place has large lots and easy interstate access (inlcuding its own interchange).

JTS LOU

April 1st, 2005, 01:13 AM

Jeff

April 1st, 2005, 03:48 AM

But freedom hall lacks the so called "Downtown Venue" which would be located to an area that is booming right now (4th st live district) Its just time b/c we cant even get concerts while Boise, Idaho; and Lexington are getting them all and I think thats a bit weird for a city of Louisville's size not to get concerts and after the new arena it will just boost everything downtown from clubs to shopping.. in The "NEW LOUISVILLE" Live-Work-Play.

So the idea is build a big arena so Louisville can have "concerts" (I assume we are not talking about opera, musicals, or the orchestra)?

Downtown Louisville has been so bastardized by misguided urban renewal and demolition (why did they tear down the Commonwealth Building and replace it with a grassy lawn?) and new construction (that new Marriott..WFT?) so what if a big arena (surrounded by acres of parking) is built. In fact this would be a good reason to tear down even more of Fourth Street since its mostly vacant anyway.

A big arena will bring in people to see concerts and games, and they will get back in their cars & drive right back to the suburbs, although there may be some restraunt/cocktail bar spin-off trade. It won't lead to more retail, thats for sure.

SChristopher

April 1st, 2005, 04:09 AM

Freedom Hall is old, though of adequate size, it just doesnt seem to rank very well with other arenas in my opinion. Also arenas bring people downtown (ones that ARE downtown) and the people attending games will spend money at shops by it or maybe eat at a downtown restaurant before a game etc. Granted people arent going to MOVE downtown for an arena, but if retailers etc know that people are going to be drawn downtown it could definately spur more eateries and who knows what else. It is just a draw and to me if they are done right can be aestically pleasing. I really hope they pull through and make it downtown, if they dont it will really be a loss.

As far as the Marriott, it was needed, I really dont know what was there before though, I never paid attention. It was needed somewhere though. Louisville has seen all the cities around it get a SLEW of hoteliers I would say at LEAST a downtown Marriott was in order. Along with the destruction though fortunately there has been alot of repair and re-use of buildings that in other cities would have been bulldozed or boarded.

And yes to answer you Gych (from the other thread) and anyone who was wondering, I am back in Louisville. I took a trip down there and got a little homesick and realized the little things it was missing (and some things I was missing that Louisville is now getting, It has changed SO much even since I lived there some months ago) werent that big of a deal compared to the other stuff I have had to deal with other places. I know me and Louisville have had our issues, LOL, but it is nice to be a part of something that is growing and changing and actually getting better, than watching something well you know....In my travels just to share, I have also realized how liberal (accepting, laid back, whatever) Louisville really is compared to so many other places big and small. Anyways so yeah I moved back into my old house (We kept it all the while because it was under lease) ... probably to stay for a good while because I am sick of travelling!

Jeff

April 1st, 2005, 05:34 AM

... I have also realized how liberal (accepting, laid back, whatever) Louisville really is compared to so many other places big and small. ...

I have noticed that too, especially compared to here in Ohio.

LouisvilleJake

April 1st, 2005, 07:09 PM

They want to move an arena to downtown or the spinoff business it will create. While retail will not pop up due to an arena, there will be a great plethera of new restaurants and bars to cater to the crowds that will linger long into the night after a concert or UofL game. Sure, there will be plenty of people who drive downtown, watch the event, and go home, but there will also be TONS of people who stay for the evening.

Slight aside, the city isn't so shortsighted as to add new parking lots for an arena...a garage will have to be a part of what happens. Fourth Street will not have anything demolished on it because that area is holding it's collective breath to see what Cordish does with Phase II of Fourth Street Live, and the Commonwealth Building (I hope we're thinking of the same building here on this one) was torn down due to extensive water damage. The land is city owned, and for sale...They do not want a grassy lot, but the building was no longer stable.

The Marriott, while not being the height of glamerous architecture, is really not that terrible. It was a needed addition to the city. I personally am not sorry that the "Porno Block" was demolished. They were able to incorporate some of the historic facades into the new building, and that is more than MOST cities would do.

Freedom Hall is a great landmark, but the place is terribly outmoded, and in a poor location for the city. You cannot have spin off businesses or an entertainment district around it. The city wants to be able to host NCAA regionals, national concert acts (considering Louisville get THE LEAST number of major touring acts of any major city in America) UofL basketball, all while being able to use the energy from those events, and others, to create spin off business, which CANNOT be done at the fairgrounds. Downtown Louisville is on a roll, and this would simply keep that momentum going strong.

cwilson758

April 1st, 2005, 07:19 PM

Louisville needs a modern arena of some sorts downtown. Indy's renewal began in the mid 70's when Market Squar Arena was built for the Pacers. Next came the RCA Dome and convention center. Now, MSA is replaced with the top-rated Conseco Fieldhouse, and one way or another, the State Legislature is going to pass funding for a new retractable roof stadium for the Colts this year. What I am saying is that the first two, MSA and RCA Dome are highly thought as the catalyst that have made dowtown Indy a destination for living, working, and playing! With the river in Louisville and the old river 'hoods, you all have the potential to have a great downtown.

JTS LOU

April 2nd, 2005, 01:38 AM

I Think a new downtown arena is definataley good for bringing stuff to Louisville so i hope it gets everyones vote and not even thought about putting it at the Fairgrounds.

JTS LOU

April 2nd, 2005, 02:01 AM

does anyone know why Starbucks at Lou.. international airport closed down?

Jeff

April 2nd, 2005, 02:48 AM

... and the Commonwealth Building (I hope we're thinking of the same building here on this one) was torn down due to extensive water damage. The land is city owned, and for sale...They do not want a grassy lot, but the building was no longer stable.

The one I'm thinking of was at Fourth & Broadway, across the street from the Brown Hote; and kittycorner from the Heyburn Building. It was going to be part of John Brown's Fourth & Broadway real estate developement in the 1920s, but the Depression intervened.

The Commonwealth Building was art deco, with a sort of step-back design similar to the old Civic Opera or Palmolive Building in Chicago, imitating the NYC step back skyscrapers. Unfortunately I can't find any images online of it.

A "stripped" version was built (believe it or not) in the early 1950s, pretty much following the art-deco massing but without much decoration, and was tallest skyscraper in Louisville until the 800 was built in the early '60s.

When the Commonwealth was first built it had a beacon on top (again like the Palmolive Bldg), but that was turned off as the people living in Floyds Knobs complained (apparently the height of the beacon was enough to flash into bedrooms and living rooms up there).

It was torn down and a lame park and bland spec building was built on the site. The loss of this building sort of ruined the urban ambience of Theatre Square.

@@@@@@@@@@@

Incidentally, where is this new arena going to go downtown?

JTS LOU

April 2nd, 2005, 03:00 AM

(??) Rumored to be were the old Water co. is by 4th st. live.. again (??)

LouisvilleJake

April 2nd, 2005, 11:15 AM

There is a basically vacant block directly accross from the new Marriott. That is where the mayor wants it put, as to be close enough to Fourth Street to create spill over business along the corridor

JTS LOU

April 2nd, 2005, 07:33 PM

That would be a great new location.. right by the new Marriot.. I just hope it gets approved.

JTS LOU

April 3rd, 2005, 12:39 AM

OFF TOPIC: GO LOUISVILLE

GOOD LUCK LOUISVILLE IN ST.LOUIS(VILLE)

BEAT ILLINOIS

Soulbrotha

April 3rd, 2005, 06:54 AM

Tear down Louisville Gardens and and the park next to it and the arena there.

JTS LOU

April 3rd, 2005, 07:32 PM

Tear down Louisville Gardens and and the park next to it and the arena there.

That wouldnt be so bad.. But they will say its "HISTORIC" so I doubt that will happen.

card04

April 3rd, 2005, 09:07 PM

The new Marriott replaced what was known as the "porno block", which as you might have guessed was a block full of strip clubs and porn shops, so it was a good decision. Yes a few older buildings had to be torn down, but they weren't kept up with and were really an eyesore. Jeff what is your problem with new contruction downtown? East main used to be a bunch of old factories and scrapyards, now look at what is happening there. Soon it will be one of the best places to live in the city imo. It would be like living by central park in NYC. There are some buildings downtown that deserve to be saved such as "whiskey row", that really add character to downtown, some could and should be replaced. Most of the buildings you see downtown have replaced something .
As far as a new arena downtown by far is the best place, especially on the spot next to the Marriott, most of that area is now a huge parking lot.

JTS LOU

April 3rd, 2005, 10:46 PM

Jeff

April 4th, 2005, 02:08 AM

By the Marriot is probably were it will be built b/c thats were most people including the mayor want it.

The Marriot is in a good location vis a vis the conventiont center, which is why it is where it is. That was the rationale for building the Hyatt..it went up around the same time as the convention center.

That wouldnt be so bad.. But they will say its "HISTORIC" so I doubt that will happen.

That did't stop them from building the Galleria, AKA "Fourth Street Live"....tho they did save that Chicago School facade from the Kaufman Building.

If you all have a problem w. historic preservation and neighborhood consevation you are really missing the point about what makes Louisville special. The more you tear down of a city the less interesting it is...and you can see this downtown as the areas that are the more interesting to walk around in, like Main Street, or Fifth between Main and the Courthouse, are the ones that have been more or less conserved.

In any case the big arena sounds like its going in that shlocky urban renewal area west of 3rd, so no loss if they tear down a bunch of the 1960s-era junk mixed w. parking lots.

@@@@

BTW, I hear they are going to close the Haymarket & build something new there. Thats nice. Do you know alot of cities are trying to keep and restore their old markets? In Ohio there is Findlay Market in Cincy, North Market in Columbus, West Market in Cleveland, and there is a farmers market in Toledos warehouse district. Even Dayton has started up an urban market in an old railroad freight house. So its a bit odd seeing Louisville close something other cities are trying to revive and conserve.

Soulbrotha

April 4th, 2005, 06:27 AM

i'd rather see a "New Louisville Gardens" than an Arena named "the bucket."

JTS LOU

April 4th, 2005, 11:20 PM

I agree 100% but I want a new arena regardless and if they are going to pay go on w/ it.

gych

April 4th, 2005, 11:59 PM

The Marriot is in a good location vis a vis the conventiont center, which is why it is where it is. That was the rationale for building the Hyatt..it went up around the same time as the convention center.

That did't stop them from building the Galleria, AKA "Fourth Street Live"....tho they did save that Chicago School facade from the Kaufman Building.

If you all have a problem w. historic preservation and neighborhood consevation you are really missing the point about what makes Louisville special. The more you tear down of a city the less interesting it is...and you can see this downtown as the areas that are the more interesting to walk around in, like Main Street, or Fifth between Main and the Courthouse, are the ones that have been more or less conserved.

In any case the big arena sounds like its going in that shlocky urban renewal area west of 3rd, so no loss if they tear down a bunch of the 1960s-era junk mixed w. parking lots.

@@@@

BTW, I hear they are going to close the Haymarket & build something new there. Thats nice. Do you know alot of cities are trying to keep and restore their old markets? In Ohio there is Findlay Market in Cincy, North Market in Columbus, West Market in Cleveland, and there is a farmers market in Toledos warehouse district. Even Dayton has started up an urban market in an old railroad freight house. So its a bit odd seeing Louisville close something other cities are trying to revive and conserve.

Too late...the Haymarket has already been razed. They have replaced it with, you guessed it, a surface parking lot. Unreal. Apparently, it is sposed to be the site of the new biomedical building, but what I do not get is why they tore it down and made a surface lot before they were even ready to build the medical building (which at least has a nice architecural design in its plans). Oh well, just so long as it doen't stay surface parking I won't be outraged...but I agree, Jeff, what they did def PISSES ME OFF.

The new arena is going to either be on propert owned by the Blues Brothers right between Waterfront Park Place and Slugger Field (currently a surface lot), or the square block directly south of the Marriot bounded by 2nd, 3rd, Liberty, and Ali I think. There are a couple cool structures still standing here like the old Belknap Elevator Co. building and an old school parking garage. They are not super historic, and most of the block is surface parking

...BUT with this being said, I think I favor the river location. It wouldnt destroy our riverfront like it has in Cincy since we have a park buffer in front of it. Instead, it would add to the residential loft synergy that is booming on the east main/market corridor as a result of the refurbished Slugger Field. It would be the icing on the cake IMO and ensure that at least this part of downtown will not fail. Combine this with the Clarksdale redevelopment (or razing of that conspicious demarcation between the bohemian Highlands and downtown), Artistic galleries, and the synergy creeping in from Irish Hill, Butchertown, Clifton, and the Original Highlands, and we could have one HELL of an urban corridor that stretches all the way from West Main and the river all the way up Baxter and Frankfort into the Highlands and Crescent Hill to St. Matthews. I have this vision of a landline trolley like they have in Memphis or New Orleans that passes through market street and up either Frankfort or baxter. That would be AWESOME. This city just needs to think outside the box. Any thoughts on my proposal?

LouisvilleJake

April 5th, 2005, 12:03 AM

The Haymarket in Louisville was razed sometime last year. Currently the property is a parking lot as the LMCDC (Louisville Medical Center Development Corporation) is in talks with a Maryland developers that are well versed in large scale medical science campuses. They are looking to create a campus of several buidlings, park space, and store fronts flush with the street. The master plan is expected to completed by early summer with more concrete details.

The Haymarket in Louisville however was a joke. I have toured many of the markets in the cities you mentioned Jeff, and the Haymarket was no where near the league of the one in Cleveland, nor could it really become a revival project like the one in Cincinnati. It was a mish mosh of three buildings with absolutely no architectural significance whatsoever. I personally did not mourn it's demise, as it was not a very utilised center and was more of an eyesore than anything. Perhaps someday Louisville will try to recreate a market such as this, I could care less if they do, but The Haymarket buildings were not going to be the place where it needed to be built. These types of markets are hard to sustain, and right now, I dunno if downtown would be able to keep a revitalized market like this open for long. Maybe when downtown has progressed we can reconsider this type of place and reuse the Haymarket name, but i n it's state, it was a useless block that will become a great business/medical center to add to Jewish/Norton/U of Louisville Health network.

LouisvilleJake

April 5th, 2005, 12:12 AM

Beat me to the Haymarket comment Gych, haha. Must've been typing at the same time.

My personal opinion on the arena...I want to see it built next to the Marriott, not on the riverfront. Not because I think a rivefront location would be bad, but I want to see that large parking lot owned by the Blues turned into more housing stock since it is such a great residential location, and the location by the Marriott, I feel, would give optimum chances for new businesses to develop in what the city wants as the downtown entertainment district.

About your comments on a new urban corridor from DT to Bardstown...it's happening. I watched them tearing down Clarksdale a few weeks ago and I just was so happy I couldn't even tell you. I just keep imagining what it is going to become and it excites me. That whole area is roaring back to life and it is amazing. Just 10 years ago no one would beleive inner city Louisville would rebound...I think the city will rebound and be better than it ever was in the past.

gych

April 5th, 2005, 01:17 AM

since i am still in chicago, can anyone post pics or updates of downtown construction? I am most interested in the soho condos, the off broadway lofts (on finzer behind broadway), and the lofts of broadway (old WYCA bldg).

card04

April 5th, 2005, 04:01 AM

The property owned by the Blues brothers wouldn't be a bad place at all for a new arena, I agree with LouisvilleJake however, it would be better used as something to do with residential purposes. Personally I would like to see some small shops and restaurants go on that property. There is already a huge mass of residential buildings that are planned, under construction, or completed in that area. I think that area could possibly sustain some retail in a few years. I've always envisioned well designed store fronts flush with the streets with a small court yard in the middle. Perhaps that design of the buildings could be resemble the warehouses that use to be in that area. Thats just my opinion though, just about anything there would be better than a parking lot.
The area south of the Marriott looks pretty empty with the huge parking lot, and the buildings that do occupy that area are a bit of an eyesore. Being in close proximity to fourth street live, the Marriott, and the convention center, makes it an ideal place for an arena. By the way SoulBrother, we can only hope they don't call it the bucket.

gych

April 5th, 2005, 04:41 AM

www.kipda.org

Check it out. It was in business first today. Check out the transportation site. Are they hinting at light rail again with Horizon 2030? I see an "anchorage to LaGrange" commuter line mentioned among TONS of other projects. Check out today's (monday) business first of louisville for more. Thoughst on road impovements in the ville? I think our poor roads in the burbs make people think, as Schris has mentioned, that Louisville is more "country" or rural than it actually is.

raqoff25

April 5th, 2005, 06:01 AM

That website proposed a hell of a lot of projects. I saw at least four proposals for some sort of "Advanced Transit Line" (aka Light Rail.. i think) That would be awesome! I think the ones I saw were for the line in Anchorage, one from Downtown to the airport, and then one from baxter ave/bardstown/lex. ave to fern creek. I am sure there were some more, but I didn't have time to scroll through the entire document. I also like the proposal to build a 5 lane road from hurstbourne lane to shelbyville via Bunsen Blvd. and Christian Way... that really needs to be done! I hope we could pull off a light rail system by 2030... highly doubt it though!

Jeff

April 5th, 2005, 10:09 PM

The Haymarket.... It was a mish mosh of three buildings with absolutely no architectural significance whatsoever...

Totally agree.

However it was the space that was of interest. The location was about one block up from Main, two from that new park, and that part of downtown is going to take off due to the riverfront park and that ballpark (sort of a neat take on the Camden Yards concept...excellent re-use of that old freighthouse I think..used to be Brinley-Hardy?). This riverfront developement is shifting activity and interest to the east of downtown, and that Haymarket site (along w. some of those old buildings on Market) could have been redeveloped into a funky mixed use complex...a re-energized market, combined w. perhaps housing and offices and live/work space. They could have torn down the "discount shoe district" on Preston too, and worked that site into a redeveloped.

In any case its a moot point as the site is already committed to other use, as you mentioned.

@@@@@

Clarksdale.

I know it well, as I was invovled in the early stages of a project to remodel it about 20 -25 years ago. I basically did the site investigation, walked the entire project w. a blueprints, clipboard, and red pen, noting site conditions. The place, tho having that grim 1930s functional-meets-deco barracks look, actually had some good site planning, w. a park and rec center in the middle of the complex. I think the place might have had more green space when originally built, but that was converted into mid-block parking.

So they are going to replace it? Are they going to do a rebuild, or put some other use on the site? There have been some good renovation/replacements of 1930s era housing projects in Cincy, the replacement having more of a rowhouse look.

Jeff

April 5th, 2005, 10:29 PM

Combine this with the Clarksdale redevelopment (or razing of that conspicious demarcation between the bohemian Highlands and downtown), Artistic galleries, and the synergy creeping in from Irish Hill, Butchertown, Clifton, and the Original Highlands, and we could have one HELL of an urban corridor that stretches all the way from West Main and the river all the way up Baxter and Frankfort into the Highlands and Crescent Hill to St. Matthews. I have this vision of a landline trolley like they have in Memphis or New Orleans that passes through market street and up either Frankfort or baxter. That would be AWESOME. This city just needs to think outside the box. Any thoughts on my proposal?

I certainly agree. The area between, say, the river and Broadway, from Beargrass Creek to Downtown, has alot of potential. Some of it has been realized in Butchertown, as that neighborhood was one of the great historic preservation saves from the 1970s (the place was zoned industrial). The area around St Martin of Tours, too (I noticed they built some nice infill housing in that area).

But there is alot of open space that could be primo land for infill housing, plus Broadway could be a new Clifton/Crescent Hill/Highlands...check out the old facades and storefronts on Broadway.

Incidentally, are any of you familiar w. the developement in the area that was happening in the early 80s, I think (or late 70s). There was this shopping/office complex called The Cloister near St Martin, but it closed (they where trying to piggback on the sucess of Bakery Square in Butchertown). And there was a little art colony in the neighborhood...working artists had their stuidos and workshops in old buildings off Shelby Street, I think (not a gallery scene, more a studio/workspace thing). One artist working in the neighborhood at that time was Ed Hamilton, who was probably the best sculptor working in Louisville then...I got a tour of his studio when the artists had an open house one weekend.

So, yeah, that east side area (does that neighborhood have a name?..I thought it was Phoenix Hill, but is that further up by the tavern, on Baxter?)..could be a hot area.

@@@@

As for transit..the obvious corridor for some rail-based transit would be the old L&N line east, through Clifton, Crescent Hill, St Matthews, Lyndon, Anchorage, etc...maybe a branch east down Shelbyville Road, too....
...there would be some good opportunitys for TODs and increased density in places like St Matthews & Lyndon as well as further out.

gych

April 6th, 2005, 12:26 AM

I certainly agree. The area between, say, the river and Broadway, from Beargrass Creek to Downtown, has alot of potential. Some of it has been realized in Butchertown, as that neighborhood was one of the great historic preservation saves from the 1970s (the place was zoned industrial). The area around St Martin of Tours, too (I noticed they built some nice infill housing in that area).

But there is alot of open space that could be primo land for infill housing, plus Broadway could be a new Clifton/Crescent Hill/Highlands...check out the old facades and storefronts on Broadway.

Incidentally, are any of you familiar w. the developement in the area that was happening in the early 80s, I think (or late 70s). There was this shopping/office complex called The Cloister near St Martin, but it closed (they where trying to piggback on the sucess of Bakery Square in Butchertown). And there was a little art colony in the neighborhood...working artists had their stuidos and workshops in old buildings off Shelby Street, I think (not a gallery scene, more a studio/workspace thing). One artist working in the neighborhood at that time was Ed Hamilton, who was probably the best sculptor working in Louisville then...I got a tour of his studio when the artists had an open house one weekend.

So, yeah, that east side area (does that neighborhood have a name?..I thought it was Phoenix Hill, but is that further up by the tavern, on Baxter?)..could be a hot area.

@@@@

As for transit..the obvious corridor for some rail-based transit would be the old L&N line east, through Clifton, Crescent Hill, St Matthews, Lyndon, Anchorage, etc...maybe a branch east down Shelbyville Road, too....
...there would be some good opportunitys for TODs and increased density in places like St Matthews & Lyndon as well as further out.

Jeff, sounds like you know a lot about Louisville. Why don't you move here...we could use someone like you pestering the city gov't with great ideas. What a better way to turn a city around than to reuse what once made it boom. That is, the old L&N rail lines.

In your honest opinion, would you consider Louisville to have quite a bigger feel and aura about it than Dayton? How would you compare the amenities in both cities. I would like to argue that both population and amenity wise, Louisville is quite a bit ahead...but many forumers on here compare Louisville to dayton.

Jeff

April 6th, 2005, 02:52 AM

Jeff, sounds like you know a lot about Louisville. Why don't you move here...we could use someone like you pestering the city gov't with great ideas. What a better way to turn a city around than to reuse what once made it boom. That is, the old L&N rail lines.

heh, thanks, but based ont that link it looks like KIPDA is already on the case. :-)

In your honest opinion, would you consider Louisville to have quite a bigger feel and aura about it than Dayton? How would you compare the amenities in both cities. I would like to argue that both population and amenity wise, Louisville is quite a bit ahead...but many forumers on here compare Louisville to dayton.

In my opinion there are parts of Dayton that look like they could be right out of Louisville and vice versa. But Louisville does have a "larger" feel, which is difficult to account for as both metropolitan areas are in the same size range in population...one metro is not grossly larger or smaller than the other in terms of population.

I suspect that larger "feel" has something to do with the geography and form of the city, and its regional setting.

Also, though roughly the same size, and sharing some phsyical characteristics, Dayton and Louisville are fairly different cities in terms of history and economics.

In terms of being ahead in amenities, it depends on what is meant and what one values. Both cities have strong & weak points, and one can disagree on those as well.

gych

April 6th, 2005, 04:08 AM

Ok, by amenities, I mean large old neighborhoods like the highlands and crescent hill that have mansions, apartments, and even a few old school high rises overlooking an Olmstead designed park. They are also ligned with retail, upscale restaurants, consignment, tattoo parlors, etc. I mean a revitalized downtown with more nightlife and condos going up all over like the 300 foot waterfrontparkplace that has a 3 million penthouse.. I mean four and five star restaurants that are consistent and could rank with those in large and great food towns. I mean nightlife in general from the highlands and clifton and crescent hill all the way to clubs downtown. I mean two beltways around the city, a larger skyline, and nearly 200k? (something like that) more in metro population. Tell me what you think.

card04

April 7th, 2005, 07:23 AM

Does anybody have any information on what will be done with whiskey row. I know a few years ago there were talks about making them into a hotel with shops...or something like that. Its sad to seem the buidlings in the shape that they are in. Whiskey row is probably one of the biggest eyes sores downtown, but it has so much potential. If I had the money I would certainly renovate the whole block.
By the way Gych, for real drop the whole comparison thing with Louisville and Dayton, your just going to piss people off. It's great that you have pride in Louisville, I'm sure everybody on here has a lot of it also, but I've seen you go on and on like a 3 year old comparing Louisville with many cities since I've joined skyscrappercity. Louisville is a great city, so is Dayton, just leave it at that. I love Louisville, I will probably live here for most of my life, if not all, but I know not everybody is going to like it. Heck, some people might like Lexington better, thats fine, they have thier own opinions, Lexington is a great city as well. To be honest some of your arguements don't even make sense. Since when to beltways make or break a city? I can think of two of our larger neighbors who only have one(cincy, indy), does that make them worse or better off, probably not. Old school high rises over Olmstead Parks, theres only really one true high rise that I can think of that over looks and Olmstead park, 1400 Willow, though it looks old school it was built in 1980, I don't think it would count. I'm not tryin to be a jerk, I'm just sayin you make yourself look like one when you go on one of your rants. I'm glad you have so much civic pride, if every body had as much as you do, Louisville would probably be better off. This is a Louisville thread lets keep it about Louisville.