Next LARGE Alabama city? [Archive]

bystander

January 29th, 2005, 06:44 AM

There's a plethora quotes, stats, ect. that have been said over the last couple of years that indicate pop. growth. It was predicted in 2001 that Montgomery may see a slight pop. decrease for 2003. But current population estimates from the census bureau did not include all the recent economic activity that the city is dealing with.

Here's one such article...

Work force could make Montgomery grow
By Tiffany Ray
Montgomery Advertiser

The location of Hyundai's manufacturing facility in southwest Montgomery may spur a growth renaissance in south and west Montgomery. Montgomery has been growing east - Wynlakes subdivision is an example of eastward expansion.
-- Mickey Welsh Advertiser

Since Hyundai named Montgomery as the site of its first U.S. manufacturing operation in 2002, state and local leaders have spoken optimistically of the growth a new plant would bring with it -- more people, jobs, revenue, and opportunities for central Alabamians.
If some estimates are correct, Ashley Frye, senior manager of Hyundai's general assembly facility, could represent the first trickle of a long stream of newcomers flowing into Montgomery County over the next 20 years. Frye moved with his wife to Montgomery last year from Murfreesboro, Tenn., to become one of the first Americans hired at the plant.
"I love it down here," Frye said. "I'm absolutely thrilled to be here in Alabama and look forward to calling myself a long-term Alabamian."
Today, Hyundai employs more than 650 people in Montgomery. When the plant is at full capacity, the company has said it will employ at least 2,000.
Meanwhile, Hyundai suppliers keep on coming. By the most recent count, the automaker will work directly with 31 suppliers in Alabama, including 21 tier-one companies and assorted tier-two and support providers. (The "tier one" label refers to those companies that will supply Hyundai directly, while "tier two" companies will supply the tier-one suppliers.) Early estimates put the total number of jobs created by the suppliers at 4,000 or more.
All told, Hyundai-related jobs will generate an estimated $280 million in added income, and some $85 million to $90 million in additional retail sales, according to Keivan Deravi, professor of economics at Auburn University Montgomery.
Hyundai's presence on the Montgomery landscape could result in substantial population growth over time, he said, as people arrive to fill the new jobs. Deravi has estimated that, by 2025, the county's population could grow from the 223,510 tallied in the 2000 census to as many as 350,000.
Those people will bring with them a demand for more housing, roads, education, retail goods and other basic needs. Deravi said it is no wonder that Publix, which plans to build four new grocery stores in Montgomery in the coming months, has chosen this moment to enter the Montgomery market, or that Wal-Mart has decided to build a new Supercenter in the middle of town.
Ken Groves, Montgomery's director of planning and development, said the city will be ready for the growth.
"We really believe Keivan Deravi's numbers are going to prove to be a very likely scenario," he said.
Based on a rough calculation of his own, Groves estimated that growth attributable to Hyundai could reach 15,000 to 25,000 people in the next five to 10 years. He said there is sufficient capacity in the building and development community to meet those needs.
Buddy Morgan, general manager of the Montgomery Water Works and Sanitary Sewer Board, said Montgomery's water and sewer infrastructure is well equipped for future development spurred by the new automotive industry.
"Hyundai did not catch us flat-footed," he said.
Morgan predicted the city will see a trickle-down effect in the next couple of years, as well-paid Hyundai workers begin to invest their extra income in bigger homes and other goods.
He said the water board is in constant communication with River Region developers to keep tabs on development trends and maintains a long-range plan for infrastructure. Although he declined to discuss specifics, Morgan said plans are in the works among developers to build in the southwestern part of the city, where the Hyundai plant is located, as well as on the growing east side.
"It's just a matter now of putting all those plans in place," he said.
To help guide the anticipated growth, the city has included funding in its budget to begin constructing a comprehensive plan for Montgomery, an effort some residents have said is overdue.
Groves said Hyundai has given added impetus to the plan.
"I think Hyundai has helped us a lot by coming, because it's got everybody thinking and talking," he said.
City staffers are "building the backbone" of the plan now, culling workers and data, and testing software, Groves said. The plan will be several years in the making, but the city will prioritize areas experiencing rapid growth or deterioration.
"Growth happens," he added, "and it will happen in a positive, constructive way, or it will happen in a haphazard and disjointed way. The choice is ours."
Initially at least, any population growth spurred by the Hyundai plant will be making up for recent declines. According to U.S. Census Bureau estimates, the population of Montgomery County lost 1,530 people between 2000 and 2003. While the decline was small, said Don Bogie, director of the Center for Demographic Research at Auburn University Montgomery, "we're going in the wrong direction right now."
He said the population decline is a continuation of a pattern that began in 1970s and 1980s of migration from urban areas into outlying counties. Indeed, Autauga and Elmore counties both saw population increases of 6 to 7 percent during the same three-year period.
While Montgomery County's overall population is down, international migration into the county is up by 547 people, AUM's Bogie said, most likely due to increases in the county's Korean and Hispanic populations. Similarly, between the 2000-2001 and 2003-2004 school years, Montgomery Public Schools saw a jump in the number of Asian students, to 465 from 391. Its Hispanic population increased, too, to 308 students from 227.
In the new school year, the Montgomery Public Schools welcomed four new English Language Learner instructors to accommodate the growth in students from other countries.
Mellissa Smith, owner of Island Delight Caribbean Restaurant near Maxwell Air Force Base, said she hopes Montgomery's new Korean residents will become customers in her restaurant. Smith said she also hopes Hyundai will help bring more development to Montgomery's west side.
So does Lynn Beshear, executive director of Envision 2020, a nonprofit group that promotes smart growth in the River Region.
"It is more of a challenge to go into an area that has deteriorated," Beshear said. "It's more of a risk. Business owners have to go where they can have the most assurance of succeeding, so there are concerns that west Montgomery could be passed over, at least in this first flurry of activity."
Still, she said, "I see a lot of very positive signs."

teshadoh

January 29th, 2005, 06:57 AM

LSyd

January 29th, 2005, 07:10 AM

dammit, this thread should've never made it to a 3rd page. i just wanted to be up with the GA and NC big boyz...them question asking bastards.

glad you're all having fun though. me, i see no fucking way BHam's gonna lost 30,000 people in the next 15 years. even while drunk :cheers: i call bullshit on that. Montgomery gaining? sure. Bham losing that much, in that period, i call bullshit.

and for clarification, how does UAB's populatin fit into Birmingham? how about me, as though i live here but have an official residence in TN? maybe mr. population-bot in minnesota can answer this? ;) oh, and have you heard the report that in...something years, like 20% (i think, maybe more) of the world's urban population will be actually squatters, without property rights? over a billion people...in unauthorized favellas!!! POST PICS AND DISCUSS!!!

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teshadoh

January 29th, 2005, 07:12 AM

LSyd, I would have never thought this - but you are incredibley coherent & concise when drunk! :)

LSyd

January 29th, 2005, 07:38 AM

LSyd, I would have never thought this - but you are incredibley coherent & concise when drunk! :)

it's a special skill!!! :cheers:

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bystander

January 29th, 2005, 08:06 AM

Great bystander, those are some solid facts - like I said, I'm happy as pie - bullshit pie, but pie nonetheless ;)

Just a suggestion, whenever someone from the chamber of commerce, city hall, or someone from the local college predict something - beyond miracelous, a little bit of scepticism wouldn't hurt. Nearly doubling the population within 20 years after decades of stagnant population gain / loss is simply hard to believe. Again, if it happens - great, more than happy for you.

I'll be the first to say that myself, that's why I take what I hear about other cities with a grain of salt because it's either C.O.C. talk or just "good feeling" retoric from certian forumers without any outside facts to backup their "hopes".

Whether Montgomery grows super-fast or not is not so much the big deal here. Montgomery's "ego" wouldn't be affected much if it was 4th largest or 1st. But obviously other cities would be devestated to lose the status of being 1st, 2nd or 3rd largest. It's pretty sad to hope one city losses population in order for another to "move up a spot". WHY IS THAT? As long as your city is getting major projects that will improve the city is what you/we ought to be happy about. The decision to build Mobile's RSA Tower was made after that city went from 2nd to 3rd in population...being first or second didn't matter.
I've notice a lot of times a city doesn't start getting good projects until it seems to lose population.

I do take Professor Deravi's research pretty serious as he has been very accurate with his predictions about development and growth; either positive or negative. That's the reason I quoted him. He has been on target with research in other parts of the state and southeast, in fact.

LSyd

January 29th, 2005, 08:22 AM

meh, i'd love to see Alabama almost immmitate UK, possibly through a rail system (never happen:)

Mobile - beach/coast
Montgomery - capital
Birmingahm - real big city/financial capital
Huntsville - mountains/tech

if only they'd work together (never happen.)

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marathon

January 29th, 2005, 06:21 PM

Owh gad, enough is enough, whadda you knoe, yar just from Minnesoahta.

I do global forecasting.

Ohio cities 2020 and 2000 :) :

Columbus city OH 879,350 711,265
Cleveland city OH 414,298 477,472
Toledo city OH 289,979 313,782
Cincinnati city OH 275,317 331,285

;)

DallasTexan

January 29th, 2005, 06:52 PM

All of my favorite cities are losing population, seems like.

marathon

January 29th, 2005, 06:58 PM

Well...not Dallas ;)

marathon

January 29th, 2005, 07:01 PM

Whether Montgomery grows super-fast or not is not so much the big deal here. Montgomery's "ego" wouldn't be affected much if it was 4th largest or 1st.

Exactly. Even once Montgomery becomes the largest city in Alabama (if and when it does), it will still probably only be the 4th largest county in the state.

LSyd

January 29th, 2005, 07:02 PM

All of my favorite cities are losing population, seems like.

you're just got better taste. almost makes me think "good riddance to those who like sucky places."

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DallasTexan

January 29th, 2005, 07:04 PM

Well...not Dallas ;)

Dallas isn't my cup of tea.

marathon

January 29th, 2005, 07:07 PM

Dallas isn't my cup of tea.

Your username must be a constant disappointment then ;)

DallasTexan

January 29th, 2005, 07:08 PM

Well, since you're a n00b, you would have known that I have been on the forums for over five years now... and in 1999, I lived in Dallas.

teshadoh

January 29th, 2005, 07:16 PM

Well, since you're a n00b, you would have known that I have been on the forums for over five years now... and in 1999, I lived in Dallas.

Oh, LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! I've been on the forums here since 1999! I'm so special!!!

;)

DallasTexan

January 29th, 2005, 07:27 PM

Yes I am.

And I want a cookie, too.

LSyd

January 29th, 2005, 07:49 PM

Well, since you're a n00b, you would have known that I have been on the forums for over five years now... and in 1999, I lived in Dallas.

faux-anime-avatar noob PWN3D!!! :bash:

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marathon

January 29th, 2005, 07:51 PM

^ If you say so ;)

Your obsession with my avatar is quite fascinating :)

SChristopher

January 29th, 2005, 08:20 PM

LOL I was just joking about the accent....thanks for the Ohio numbers, "I done seen them before". They are very sad numbers indeed, when Cincinnati dips below 300k I am peacing out, because I cant imagine what it will look like then LOL. I got mugged for 4 dollars the other day with a steak knife HAHAHHAHAH.

On the topic of Alabama, I love Mobile, its so scenic...but I am not a population projection genious and guru like marathon so I cant say whether alot of people will flock there. I do know that their western burbs are expanding alot 'west mobile' but I think that might be a different city.

teshadoh

January 29th, 2005, 08:34 PM

^ I admit it's just a guess that Mobile may rebound - of course the numbers doesn't indicate that. But I would like to think there are cities that deserve growth & Mobile is one of them.

SChristopher

January 29th, 2005, 08:44 PM

I think one of the big advantages Mobile has, is that it has a potentially rebounding economy. With the new condo towers that are to bring some retail downtown as well as residents (can potentially spur a boom in condos for DT Mobile, Condos are classically one in the same with waterfront views). There has been alot of talk about malls or bringing more retail downtown for years, but I am sure Baldwin County killed all plans for that, which is probably good as malls do have a short shelf life. Also with the addition of a bold 35 story tower and class A office space, it could make or break Mobile with a new office market. They are also trying to get a peice of the tourism pie, with the cruise ship terminal and all the other malarky they are working on. West Mobile is growing like wildfire like I said with strip malls and little office complexes and giant tracts, I dont know if that is in the same city though. Then of course I think the metro of Mobile will inevitably grow leaps and bounds because of the Baldwin county retail wave and the construction of so many new developments over there. It is definatly a place to watch that could turn the tables with something surprising or fall fast.

marathon

January 29th, 2005, 09:23 PM

On the topic of Alabama, I love Mobile, its so scenic...but I am not a population projection genious and guru like marathon so I cant say whether alot of people will flock there.

I'm not a genius, it's just my job. Many different venues produce population forecasts.

You can probably find a set forecasts to say anything you want. For obvious reasons, local authorities tend to overestimate their projections more than someone in, say, Washington DC; it's a matter of civic pride ;)

Vulcan

January 29th, 2005, 09:49 PM

I thought this would be an obvious answer, but after reading some of the replies, it does not seem to be that obvious.

Huntsville, Alabama will become the next largest city in Alabama. Montgomery and Mobile's population is stagnant. Huntsville is the only major Alabama city that is significantly growing, Huntsville has a current population of more than 160,000 and is among the fastest growing cities in the US. The Census bureau, due to commuting patterns, made a decision to consolidate Metro Huntsville (360,000 +) with Metro Decatur (115,000 +) in 2003, which created Alabama's second largest metropolitan area @ more than 475,000. At the same time, the Census Bureau took Baldwin County off Mobile's MSA, which decreased Mobile's MSA population to just 400,000.

It's obvious that the Huntsville Metropolitan Area is the emerging business and population center in Alabama. Huntsville is poised for growth having the south's highest percentage of workforce employed in technology, an international airport and quite scenic location. Huntsville, Alabama - the next largest city and metropolitan region - of course!

marathon

January 29th, 2005, 09:56 PM

Huntsville, Alabama - the next largest city and metropolitan region - of course!

Probably, but the former goal is at least a quarter century away, and the latter even longer. :)

Vulcan

January 29th, 2005, 10:03 PM

Probably, but the former goal is at least a quarter century away, and the latter even longer. :)
That's cool. Population is just a number> I like urbane cities and metropolitan regions and that is something that Huntsville will probably never have over Birmingham. (*see next message. It got posted twice*)

Vulcan

January 29th, 2005, 10:04 PM

SChristopher

January 29th, 2005, 10:45 PM

marathon

January 29th, 2005, 11:46 PM

I didnt know Baldwin county got taken off the MSA of Mobile, nor do I understand why that would happen as the eastern shore is where alot of people that work in mobile, live and as it grows the people of mobile will more than likely cross the bay to shop and work...the two really are one in the same, no doubt if it was indeed taken off that it will be put back on.

Perhaps. Vulcan's comment begs for further elaboration.

With the 2000 census, the Census bureau created a new type of area called a Micropolitan area. It's like a Metropolitan area but smaller. Like Metro areas, they follow county borders (except in New England). Baldwin County was severed from Mobile's Metropolitan area to become the Daphne-Fairhope Micropolitan area.

Tables of the new structure of US Metros and "Micros" can be found here (http://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/phc-t29.html)

teshadoh

January 30th, 2005, 02:27 AM

^ Baldwin County should likely rejoin Mobile again - there are enough people commuting into Mobile to warrent that +15%.

Huntsville - Decatur is moving into that direction towards the future. Still odd how Huntsville hasn't had a remarkable population gain though, but Baldwin County has & there are few other cities, except southwest to compete with annexations. Huntsville likely has the brightest future in the short term at least.

bigboyz2004

January 30th, 2005, 06:13 AM

Yes I am.

And I want a cookie, too.
You can't have one because we're all out.

edsg25

January 30th, 2005, 11:48 PM

Next large Alabama city? Well, with the way that Americans move around nowadays, it would have to have a rather mobile population.

SChristopher

January 30th, 2005, 11:56 PM

God bless your cunning puns.

ttownfeen

January 31st, 2005, 12:33 AM

Marathon, what are your forecasts for Alabama's smaller cities (Florence, Auburn and the like)?

sleepy

January 31st, 2005, 01:55 AM

marathon

January 31st, 2005, 02:45 AM

Marathon, what are your forecasts for Alabama's smaller cities (Florence, Auburn and the like)?

Montgomery city AL 214 367 201 607
Birmingham city AL 211 128 242 790
Huntsville city AL 188 415 158 518
Mobile city AL 186 311 199 191
Hoover city AL 91 941 63 011
Tuscaloosa city AL 86 836 77 753
Dothan city AL 71 153 57 923
Auburn city AL 66 771 43 062
Madison city AL 59 967 29 339
Decatur city AL 59 694 53 948
Vestavia Hills city AL 39 341 30 399
Florence city AL 38 532 36 282
Prattville city AL 37 979 24 303
Alabaster city AL 37 453 23 635
Gadsden city AL 34 851 38 978
Pelham city AL 31 492 14 355
Phenix City city AL 30 638 28 307
Bessemer city AL 25 803 29 693
Daphne city AL 25 706 16 592
Enterprise city AL 25 581 21 179
Opelika city AL 24 653 23 562
Athens city AL 24 611 18 988
Northport city AL 23 436 19 652
Homewood city AL 23 346 25 104
Trussville city AL 22 665 13 257
Prichard city AL 22 610 28 633
Millbrook city AL 22 398 10 498
Fairhope city AL 22 377 12 527
Anniston city AL 22 208 24 498
Albertville city AL 21 794 17 350
Oxford city AL 21 637 14 599
Helena city AL 21 406 10 300
Mountain Brook cityAL 20 039 20 664

JRQ

January 31st, 2005, 03:03 AM

nvmind.

teshadoh

January 31st, 2005, 03:25 AM

Nothing really changed with Mobile. Baldwin County was included as part of the Mobile CSA.

True - but as Marathon did notice it became a micro area. Most likely it's status as a seperate micro area will be short lived. But who knows - due to commuting patterns there is even an outside chance that large metro areas could be seperated. Considering that certain counties in Atlanta & Washington metro areas are no longer becoming suburbs of the primary city, but becoming economic centers within the metro themselves.

sleepy

January 31st, 2005, 03:41 AM

True - but as Marathon did notice it became a micro area. Most likely it's status as a seperate micro area will be short lived. But who knows - due to commuting patterns there is even an outside chance that large metro areas could be seperated. Considering that certain counties in Atlanta & Washington metro areas are no longer becoming suburbs of the primary city, but becoming economic centers within the metro themselves.

I don't believe its status as a micropolitan area had anything to do with the lack of commuting patterns. That's not part of a micropolitan definition. Commuting only plays a role in a micropolitan area's inclusion in a csa. If the omb hadn't come up with micropolitan definitions, Baldwin County would still be part of Mobile's msa.

teshadoh

January 31st, 2005, 04:17 AM

I don't believe its status as a micropolitan area had anything to do with the lack of commuting patterns. That's not part of a micropolitan definition. Commuting only plays a role in a micropolitan area's inclusion in a csa. If the omb hadn't come up with micropolitan definitions, Baldwin County would still be part of Mobile's msa.

Hmmm.... guess I didn't think about that.

Unfortunately I'm not thinking too swell right now, I'm watching Family Guy now. ;)

But - that's the think line between being a micropolitan area & simply being an exurb in a metropolitan area. The commuting pattern is there, then the only thing left is for Mobile to build a dike in order for Mobile Bay to dry up, so it can be developed. That makes sense doesn't it?

SChristopher

January 31st, 2005, 04:55 AM

Isnt the causeway like 9-11 miles long! That WILL be an issue if Mobile ever becomes big time...I think thats why the sprawl is SO evident right on the eastern shore in Daphne. I used to have a friend that claimed his Daphne subdivision was the second largest or second largest at one time. Anyone ever been to Dauphin Island...that place is wicked tight.

I love Family Guy, I cant wait for the new ones....exciting wicked mega fun 2000!!!1111

rsanders4617

February 1st, 2005, 06:17 AM

Yankee BOY

February 1st, 2005, 06:31 AM

I go fishing at Dauphin Island its a nice place the "locals" are nice but the "local yokal rednecks" are what scare the tourist away.

Thoraudio

February 2nd, 2005, 08:36 PM

I think Jasper will be Alabama's next big city. :) Currently, the population is around 15,000.. but I got this gut-feeling that we will boom over the next 15 years and surpass all cities in Alabama. :) Haha. j/k

BTW, I did read back in 2000 where they were talking about our population being well over 20,000 by 2010, but we are in 2005 and still hasn't grown a whole lot. Maybe Corridor X will help some.

With the growth of the southern shore of Smith Lake, Jasper may be in for a little boom... Although anyplace that has a mall with Kmart as an anchor
:)

I definately don't see the massive 100,000 boom, but I do think that MTGY (both city and MSA) will defintately be bigger by the 2010. But the growing dearth on the southside must be stopped... maybe Hyundai will help that...

Evan

February 3rd, 2005, 03:35 PM

There was speculation in the 1980's that the cities of Gadsden and Anniston would grow together filling in the small 30 mile distance between them. In fact, the Silverlakes Golf/Robert Trent Jones resort was expected to help that along, but it didn't happen. Both cities are growing in the opposite directions from each other, but the two cities would form a metro of around 280,000. Both cities are growing towards I-20 instead of each other.

I also think Cullman warrants an eye over the next 25 years. Not really sure why, I just have that feeling. It's proximity to Birmingham and the Decatur/Huntsville metros along I-65 make it in a prime location for sprawl from both cities. More so from Birmingham than Huntsville/Decatur.

I have expected for years that at some point in the next 30 years, Mobile could surpass the Birmingham metro as the states largest city, but with the Mobile metro having been trimmed, I'm not sure what to think now. I think Mobile has a more fresh attitude than Birmingham, but Birmingham still always manages to keep itself moving forward albeit slowly.

I don't see Dothan ever being much bigger than it is simply because of its isolation. There has also been some talk about the Florence area booming, but I don't think that is really going to happen on the scale some believe. There really isn't that much going on up there despite appearances.

So, after all this rambling, the cities in Alabama I believe people need to keep an eye on over the next 30 years are:

Gadsden - Pulling lots of industries, construction is literally everywhere here.
Auburn/Opelika
Cullman - Like Oneonta, Cullman is prime for Bham sprawl.
Possibly Jasper, but Im skeptical about that whole area, even with Corridor X.
Montgomery
Oneonta/Blount Cty - This area is just getting started. Bham's sprawl will get them. It has already begun.
Mobile - Really warrants watching. Mobile has a lot to say, people better listen.

All this IMHO. I think Anniston has come about as far as it's going to go for a few decades. With the exception of the Oxford area near the interstate, there is nothing really happening to attract people to that area.

Tuscaloosa I also believe is about where it is going to be. Maybe a bit more growth, but I don't see it ever becoming a really large metro. In fact, some day I believe Tuscaloosa will become "just another Bham suburb".

Laseter

February 3rd, 2005, 10:04 PM

Regionally I would say Huntsville will be Alabama's next large city. It is the only one of our four largest cities that is actually seeing a population increase. There are several thousand Homes planned or under construction in the CITY of huntsville, and many in Huntsville's booming suburb of Madison, and Other areas of Madison county. Limestone county which is included in the Huntsville MSA is also growing quickly. And now Hutnsville and Decatur have been combined into a Combined Statistical Area with a population of just over 500,000.

Within the state of Alabama the upcoming large cities, imo would be, in no particular order:

*I'll start with my hometown of cullman. We have a population of over 14,000 and county population of 78,000. The city of cullman is booming right now in industry and commercial/retail. Population growth isn't anything exceptional, though, But I think it will increase in the coming years as we become more of a satellite city of Birmingham, Decatur, and Huntsville. But We are NOT a suburb! Once the Northern Beltline around B'ham is finished I'm sure that will bring even more growth. I think we will continue to grow (even faster) and become a more regional city in North/Central AL similar to gadsden.

*Jasper. I've only been to jasper 4 or 5 times and that was last year so I'm not an expert on jasper. I think with the completion of Corridor X jasper will see huge amounts of growth, residential, commercial, and industrial. And when the northern beltine is finished it will magnify that growth.

*Decatur has a population of about 55,000 and a metro of 150,000 and is also a part of the Huntsville-Decatur CSA. A think due to the continuing growth in Huntsville, Decatur will continue to grow too.

*Athens is located 20mi west of Huntsville and 20mi North of Decatur. It has a population of 20,000. Athens State University (where I currently attend), The states only 2-year junior/senior college is located here. As Huntsville continues to grow west Athens will grow more and more. Its population is projected to be 30,000 by 2020.

*Gadsden is such a neat city I hope it starts growing again. It has been loosing population for many decades. County growth is flat. But I think that will change. There is a new residential development planned for the city of Gadsden near the airport. Gadsden is also conveniently located near Birmingham, Chattanooga, and Atlanta.

*Madison is a suburb west of Huntsville with a population of about 36,000. It is growing exponentially. In the 1980 it had about 3,000 people. It had a growth rate in the 90's of nearly 100%, But it's just a suburb so I guess it doesn't count.

*Hoover is also growing rapidly but I wonder how long it can sustain this growth.

These are the cities I am familiar with. The only other city I'll comment on is Auburn. With It's current growth it seems like it could be Alabama's next large city.

hmorgan

February 5th, 2005, 03:27 AM

Rainbow City, because it's FABULOUS!

Hey, we're not gay! :)

I may seem partial to my city, but I like Gadsden's odds for growth in the next two decades. If Mangos is successful, expect to see more development along the Coosa. Also, expect the I-759 corridor to boom once Black Creek Parkway is extended past the creek. (The only bad thing about I-759 is the fact that they want to extend it to Highway 77. Not 431 in Attalla.) I expect Whorton Bend to be a booming upper class city, once it is incorporated. (Yes, city.) The next growth will be a Gatlinburg-type area near Noccalula Falls. They're already reversing the park entrances, in preparation.

Then you have East Gadsden. Literally seconds from Downtown, it's going to be the new retail section. Expect growth along the riverfront, such as new mixed-use development. That growth will only boom once 759 runs through the heart of it, effectively eliminating the mill village. Also expect plenty of mixed use development on US 411 if Mangos is successful. Oh, and I'm hoping to coordinate the building of an apartment complex in Southside. Except the owners don't know yet. :D

Evan

February 5th, 2005, 02:20 PM

I agree. Developers have found Gadsden. When my parents first bought their house in Southside, there was no one near them, now they are surrounded and there are so many subdivisions under construction out there. Even since I bought my house 2 years ago, development around me has just recently exploded. Not sure why all of a sudden Gadsden woke up, but it has. There is even negotiations going on to provide regularly scheduled air service to Atlanta, first time in history Gadsden would have jet service by a major carrier. I'm still a bit skeptical about that, but it wouldn't surprise me.

That new 14 story condo complex Mangos is building on the river, a lady emailed me to an enquiry I made, saying the Penthouse levels would sell for a million and a half million on the top 2 floors. Supposedly it is already 50% sold and they don't even break ground on that until spring.

I expect Mangos to be very successful here, and once Coosa Town Center opens on the eastside of the river, you will see that area come back to life also. Logan's Roadhouse on Rainbow Drive recorded the highest opening week sales in the history of its chain. Gadsden is starved for big retailers like Circuit City, and big eatery chains like Outback. I look for that to change also. Word is several big box retailers are looking at the old Lowes building and the eastside Walmart building once Towne Center opens.

After having been in a coma for 75 years, Gadsden is finally coming back to life so I wouldn't turn my back on it.

hmorgan

February 8th, 2005, 12:32 AM

rsanders4617

February 10th, 2005, 05:43 AM

With the growth of the southern shore of Smith Lake, Jasper may be in for a little boom... Although anyplace that has a mall with Kmart as an anchor
:)

Haha. Well, actually... Most people don't like Kmart and would rather see it go hehe. We do have JCPenny and Belk there too. ;) What I might rather see more than a bunch of retail development, is renewing our downtown somehow. Restaraunts and small clothing stores, etc. Whatever can bring people downtown after 5pm.

I know that is about impossible now, and I am not sure most people want that.

Charboy65

February 10th, 2005, 06:08 AM

I think it will be Birmingham.

VansTripp

February 10th, 2005, 06:54 AM

Hoover and Trussville have replacing into some immigrant on this decade. (Mostly from Mexico and other Latino country)

Thoraudio

February 10th, 2005, 04:24 PM

Haha. Well, actually... Most people don't like Kmart and would rather see it go hehe. We do have JCPenny and Belk there too. ;) What I might rather see more than a bunch of retail development, is renewing our downtown somehow. Restaraunts and small clothing stores, etc. Whatever can bring people downtown after 5pm.

I know that is about impossible now, and I am not sure most people want that.

it would certainly help my grandmother's vacuum sales/repair place :)

MobileAL1

February 12th, 2005, 07:44 AM

Within in the next 30 years Mobile will be Alabama largest city.

VansTripp

February 12th, 2005, 07:48 AM

Damn, Alabama does nothing with sprawl, just was hardcore sprawl that only grows 10,000 between 30,000 per decade.

It isn't biggest sprawl as like in Atlanta and LA.

rsanders4617

February 13th, 2005, 06:03 AM

Are we suppose to be sad because of that? :)

DallasTexan

February 13th, 2005, 06:40 AM

Within in the next 30 years Mobile will be Alabama largest city.

Um, isn't it losing population?

JRQ

February 13th, 2005, 04:13 PM

Mobile? Largest? Don't think so.

teshadoh

February 13th, 2005, 05:00 PM

Would be nice, but I don't see Mobile getting any bigger than Birmingham - just as Savannah will never get bigger than Atlanta.

MobileAL1

February 13th, 2005, 07:28 PM

Two things Mobilians can be proud of:

Downtown Riverside Condos (http://video.wpmi.com/viewer/viewerpage.php?Art_ID=63645)

RSA Tower Update (http://video.wpmi.com/viewer/viewerpage.php?Art_ID=78685)

LSyd

February 18th, 2005, 06:09 AM

^ weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll...ain't that speshulllllllll?

-

SChristopher

February 18th, 2005, 06:18 AM

Lsyd now dont patronize him those videos were pretty funky fresh, and from my experiences in Mobile, and south alabama, those people were quite composed!

Evan

March 5th, 2005, 04:17 PM

I wouldn't say Gadsden's been in a coma for 75 years. In 1970, we had 60,000 people. When Mayor Means took office, it slid down. Of course, Dwight and many other industries closed.

I wish that downtown would get more attention than Southside, or RBC. People have a bias because it's urban and 60% of the urban population is black. As of 2000, 31,801 people lived within three miles of downtown. All but 7,000 of those travel more than 10 minutes to go to work. Between 1997 and 2000, this area lost 480 residents.

I mean, you have 1,500 low-income housing units available city-wide, and I believe that almost all of those units are close to downtown. If you remove some of those hideous buildings, and re-develop Tuscaloosa, Sansom, and Hoke Streets, Gadsden would be a really nice city.

There's nothing wrong with downtown! It's just damn suburbanites hate the logic of living in an urban setting. All of my friends' parents say they steriotype about downtown, and I go to Gadsden High! Where's the logic in that? Who says we have to build new $500,000 homes in a pasture? Why not build apartments or condos in the city?

Bah, I could rant on, but I don't feel like it.

ACK! Sorry it took so long to see this. I've been in Canada working for a few weeks. Part of Gadsden's center city issues goes back a few decades. The city has never been favorable towards annexation in the past, as a result, the central city is landlocked now.

It would be hard for the citys population to increase much more because there is simply nowhere to live. That is why Gadsden sprawled so much for such a small city, there was simply nowhere else to go. The metro continues to increase in population but the city itself doesn't simply because it can't.

Downtown is booming though, all the new restaurants, bars, coffee houses. For the first time in 10 years, some friends and I spent a night downtown, and was impressed with what we saw.

Once the 14 story Mangos tower opens on the riverfront, I look for that to breathe even more life into downtown, especially once the proposed new civic center opens. We may actually start getting some entertainement booked here now that there will be a place to actually put them.

I read just the other day that the Hoke Street/East Broad revitialization project had funding approved and is now being designed. It is expected to begin late 2005, and they say it will be just as spectacular as downtown was and will bring that area back to life.

I grew up in that area and went to Litchfield High, and it will tickle me to death to see the city take back that area after 2 decades of allowing it to crumble. There is also the issue of the next phase of I-759 coming through there. It remains to be seen what that's going to do to the eastside of the city.

Some say it will ruin it, others say it will open it up to the rest of the metro, and I have to agree with that.

hmorgan

March 7th, 2005, 05:09 AM

Alabaster city AL 37 453 23 635
Gadsden city AL 34 851 38 978

Gadsden will not decline. There's simply too much growth. Unfortunately, we're taking on the charachteristics of Trussville in retail, but there's a new urbanist development in the city limits, re-development of houses downtown, and a 50-unit condo springing up on the river. Will this give us a boost? Probably not, but it sure as hell won't make our population decline by 4,000.

Oh, and might I ask where you get your information at? I mean, considering that you live 1,000 miles away, I seriously doubt that you could calculate population growth of cities you've never been to. Computers can't do it either, because statistics mean crap because they cannot connect to the city.

And Evan, Gadsden has so much potential. They're renovating the Falls, building the new consolidated high school, and annexing land in Whorton Bend. WE'll just have to wait and see.

SChristopher

March 7th, 2005, 06:47 AM

No one has a crystal ball, think it is stupid for anyone to make such a prediction especially with all of the growth. You just cant tell.

TimCity

March 12th, 2005, 05:58 PM

In terms of City Population, I think it's safe to say that Birmingham won't hold the top spot for long. As everyone has pointed out already, Mobile, Montgomery and even Huntsville might overtake it in the next 20 years. However, I think everyone will agree that the important number is Metro Population... and I don't see Birmingham giving up that title anytime soon. Shelby County is still the fastest growing county in the state, and there is tons of growth throughout the metro area. And with all the residential construction in the city center, maybe the city itself will make a turnaround.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Huntsville/Decatur become the 2nd largest metro in the future. The city is still adding people and, among the big four, the metro area is growing the fastest. Also, I think Madison (Huntsville's primary suburb) is easily going to be the next Hoover (not a good thing).

I probably haven't said anything new here, but that's my take....

VansTripp

March 12th, 2005, 06:28 PM

I believe, Hoover can be keeps sprawl until more than 150,000. Trussville is still growing and growing but its not largest as mostly suburb in LA.

MobileAL1

March 17th, 2005, 05:36 PM

The fact reminds the same that Mobile will be Alabama next largest city!

Expat Baman

March 17th, 2005, 06:25 PM

Unless the annexation of west Mobile is successful, Mobile will remain the third largest city in Alabama, and will likely slip to fourth in a few decades.

Mobile's city population is falling, not rising. The 2000 census listed Mobile at 198,915, and the estimate for 2003 was 193,464. Hopefully, new residential developments will help turn this around.

The only big four city in Alabama to gain population in the 2003 estimate was Huntsville.

ohpenn

March 17th, 2005, 08:52 PM

I'm not sure why there is this big thing with city population as the realistic definition of a city's size, when it far from the truth. Mobile is the second largest city and while Montgomery or Huntsville could take its place in city population, I don't see how their respective metros will anytime soon.

The significance of the metro population can't be stated enough.

Atlman1

March 17th, 2005, 08:59 PM

I think everyone should look out for the Auburn/Opelika area. That place has seen a lot of growth in the last few years. They have had a 24% increase in population since 1990 and doesn't appear to be slowing down. Here are the growth projections:

2005
128,075

2010
141,303

2015
154,474

2020
167,261

2025
179,495

With its close proximity to Columbus, Atlanta, and Montgomery, this area will continue to explode with growth.

Expat Baman

March 17th, 2005, 09:07 PM

The significance of the metro population can't be stated enough.
Exactly. Birmingham will remain the largest metro by far for the foreseeable future.

Expat Baman

March 17th, 2005, 09:08 PM

The significance of the metro population can't be stated enough.
Exactly. For the foreseeable future, Birmingham will remain the largest metro by far.

SChristopher

March 17th, 2005, 11:26 PM

Thats another way of putting it....

Blazer85

March 26th, 2005, 10:43 PM

Birmingham's city population may continue to decline slightly, but not at such a steep rate as before... there's too many projects going on downtown for it to continue to slip that much. As far as the metro area, Birmingham is growing at a huge rate. The growth of Birmingham's southern suburbs is well-documented, but as someone from the northern suburbs of Birmingham, I can tell you that things are really starting to explode up here.... so much so that temporary moritoriums on new construction had to be enacted due to all of the building permit requests. Gardendale, the largest northern suburb of Birmingham, has a population of 11,626... I wouldnt be surprised to see it jump up to 20,000 in the not too distant future. Once I-22 and the northern beltline are constructed, the further urbanization and infill that will take place from Gardendale and Warrior southward (much like what happened when the southern beltline was added years ago). Gardendale is similar to Hoover in MANY ways lying right at the junction of I-65 and the beltline. BTW, someone asked about UAB's impact population-wise I believe.... UAB has about 56,000 employees.

Fear of Heights

April 16th, 2005, 03:43 PM

56,000 UAB employees? I think you probably have that confused with the workforce in Bham's Central Business District. That would make more sense. UAB employs closer to 18,000 or 20,000.

As for metro Bham, the Northern Beltline and I-22's completion are the two unfinished projects that are keeping Jefferson County's population from skyrocketing. There is so much available land in Northern Jeff. County that an interstate stretch like the current I-459 completing the northern loop would create similar growth along the northern parts of the county as the southern part. Bham needs to get the dome/convention center/entertainment center project done as well. The private sector needs to put that project over the top to put a serious jolt into downtown. It wouldn't hurt to build a casino/hotel either downtown Bham or near the new Ross Bridge resort/Marriot Renaissance hotel being built in Shannon Valley.

Mobile is doing great things downtown. Now they and the entire state for that matter needs to take it a step farther. The legislature needs to get over themselves and allow casino gambling in the state. Mobile could then build a large casino (or two) downtown. I think downtown Mobile explodes if this happens as well and the cruise business would be even more energized. Talk about a downtown renaissance.

The better question might be which suburb or smaller city is the next boomtown? One city that hasn't been mentioned yet that has all the ingredients to shoot through the roof is Foley/Gulf Shores/Orange Beach. The Highway 59 corridor has completely exploded with business and retail activity the last 5-10 years. The Foley Beach Express has several square miles of flat farmland to develop as well. The RiverWalk and Wharf developments going up on either side of the InterCoastal Waterway at the inland portion of Orange Beach are going to be awesome!!

Blazer85

April 16th, 2005, 10:59 PM

CrimsonARC

April 17th, 2005, 01:56 AM

UAB has around 16,000 employees.

This link is old, but still relatively recent:

http://birmingham.bizjournals.com/birmingham/stories/2001/12/31/focus1.html

DallasTexan

April 17th, 2005, 03:24 AM

If UAB had 56,000 employees, I'd be very, very scared ;)

Blazer85

April 17th, 2005, 06:08 AM

UAB has about 20,000 full-time employees... and about 20-30,000 more part-time employees. If I can dig up the article where I read it, I'll post it.

Blazer85

April 17th, 2005, 06:14 AM

Here you go... ok, so I was 3,000 off, but that's not much when youre talking 50,000+. And all may not be OFFICIALLY on the payroll at UAB specifically, but are affiliates of UAB. Here's an excerpt taken from UAB's own website to show you that I'm not just crazy:

"As the largest employer in the state, UAB generates 53,018 full-time equivalent jobs both within the university and the community. That means 1 of every 10 jobs in the Birmingham area (and 3 of 100 in Alabama, incidentally) are here because of UAB."

Sean in New Orleans

April 19th, 2005, 08:06 AM

Huntsville is on the move.

Fear of Heights

April 19th, 2005, 12:32 PM

Speaking of Huntsville:

12 story, 200 room, luxury Westin hotel to be built as part of the Bridge Street mix use development going up in Cummins Research Park in West Hunstville. Hotel will actually have 40 condo units on the top floors of the building.

www.osholdings.com/osholdings/westin.htm (http://www.osholdings.com/osholdings/westin.htm)

Bridge Street is a large mixed use development going up in West Huntsville (actually inside Cummins Research Park). The project is going to cover 2.2 million square feet and include retail, residences, and office buildings. For anyone who has been to Huntsville this is going to be off the same exit the Space and Rocket Center is. The Rocket Center is on the south side of I-565 and Bridge Street will be about a half mile north of the Rocket Center.

Click on the Take a Tour and The Project links. Pretty neat stuff.

www.worldfamousbridgestreet.com/ (http://www.worldfamousbridgestreet.com/)

ttownfeen

April 19th, 2005, 08:29 PM

LSyd

April 19th, 2005, 09:20 PM

aye man, this thread was started off as a pseudo-joke, but it's outlasted all of the other "next big city" threads, and has far more quality.

good work!!!

-

SChristopher

April 21st, 2005, 07:32 PM

Blazer85

April 23rd, 2005, 02:01 AM

Huntsville to me looks like it could be the next Charlotte, starting out as not a very large city then exploding, it has a few of the ingredients. You know many cities that are big today were specks 40 years ago, so ya never know, who can say.

Let's not get carried away. Huntsville is growing and will continue to do so, but I dont expect Huntsville to be anything like Charlotte anytime soon. Dont get me wrong. I like Huntsville just fine and was just there today in fact.

MobileAL1

April 24th, 2005, 07:52 AM

Mobile has alot of potential!

jmanhsv

April 26th, 2005, 06:33 AM

Huntsville has the best chance of surpassing Birmingham (in CITY population, not metro). We've grown by about 7,000 since 2000, while the other "big four" cities have decreased. We will probably grow a lot faster in the coming years, looking at all of the downtown growth.

I did read somewhere that Huntsville is now the size of Charlotte 40 years ago, so you never know...

BhamDKH

April 26th, 2005, 10:16 PM

I think Huntsville has a lot more potential than Montgomery because of the mentality of the people who live in both places, but I don't know if that will translate into Huntsville being a more populous city. Huntsville has one of the highest Ph.D/capita ratios in the country. Montgomery is the most Southern (ideology) city in the country. Huntsville with its MANY Fortune 500 companies is attracting brilliant minds, and businesses such as Westin Hotels. Its residents are looking to the future in the form of conducting important advances in many fields, and is currently giving Birmingham a run for its money in which will become the state's scientific center. Montgomery despite being the seat of government is attracting Auburn grads who likely won't get any further education (maybe an MBA, certainly not a Doctorate in Rocket Science or Quantum Physics), and businesses such as and endless gluton of convenience stores and chain restaurants. Its residents are looking forward to a Friday night dinner at Shoney's and maybe seeing a movie, and is currently giving Birmingham a run for its money in lack of intelligent growth planning. Now I'm not trying to bash Auburn which is a solid school, but the caliber of education Auburn provides just can't touch the educations many of Huntsville's residents have obtained. When you have a community made up of well-educated people like Huntsville there is just a certain quality of life that naturally developes. I don't see Montgomery getting to the same level because the people who live there just aren't at that same level as a whole. Montgomery has some very intelligent, progressively-minded people and I by no means am lumping everyone together. But the majority of residents' mindset is still Bubba getting his 4/3 or 3/2.5 in a new subdivision and living happily ever after, content to share his time betwee home and Wal-Mart and live out his days. And there are many other Bubbas like him moving to Montgomery to get his little spread and looking forward to heading up I-85 back to Auburn each fall. I don't know if Huntsville can match the shear number of new residents but does it want to? If they continue their current growths Huntsville will continue to be a much more unique, interesting place to live than Monkeytown which is turning into a soulless spread of sprawl.

BhamDKH

April 26th, 2005, 10:30 PM

BhamDKH

April 26th, 2005, 11:00 PM

I just saw this on another thread. It's a listing of the best public school systems in the country:

MSA's with 50K - 100K students:
1. Sarasota, FL (#3)
2. Palm Bay, FL (#6)
3. Huntsville, AL (#10)

This just reinforces what I said a little while ago. When you have a population with a certain level of education there is just a quality of life that developes. These people care enough about their schools to invest the needed resources. My sister is in a program at UAB for early medical school acceptance out of high school and 5 of the 10 kids are from Huntsville, so this does not surprise me.

Timanator

March 16th, 2007, 02:55 AM

Hey, Marathon, isn't Huntsville the fastest growing major city in Alabama, with the current rate of Huntsvilles's growth which is about 2,000 a year.

Maxis49

March 16th, 2007, 03:05 AM

post pics and discuss!!!!!!!

Mobile, Montgomery or Huntsville? can't really overlook Gadsden or Anniston, either. or will Hoover become the second largest, like an enlarged parasite on Birmingham?

-

I think Huntsville has more of an advantage.

-=skywalker=-

March 16th, 2007, 06:14 AM

Wow Timanator, you dug up an almost 2 year old thread...but after almost 2 years since the last posting...i think now would be a good time to ask the question again.

Originally Posted by LSyd
post pics and discuss!!!!!!!

Mobile, Montgomery or Huntsville? can't really overlook Gadsden or Anniston, either. or will Hoover become the second largest, like an enlarged parasite on Birmingham?

I have to say Huntsville will be the state's largest city in 10-15 years...With BRAC, Bridge Street, The sell of Council Court (public housing downtown to private developers), a possible VBC expansion, Re-developement of the old Mall downtown, more companies moving HQ here (ie the new Verizon HQ), and 1,000s of homes going up around the city/county on a daily basis. The Huntsville metro area is prime for future growth at a blistering rate, a rate i don't see many other cities in Alabama matching...maybe Mobile with the new tower downtown might be able to keep up.

Timanator

March 16th, 2007, 07:17 AM

Beleive it or not, this is the first thread I found on the web when I found this site back in may of 2006.

jmancuso

March 16th, 2007, 08:17 AM

http://www.jerkassclothing.com/shirtpage/images/BIG/alabama.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e4/Skynyrd-Sweet-Home-Alabama.jpg/200px-Skynyrd-Sweet-Home-Alabama.jpg

MobileAL1

March 16th, 2007, 09:24 AM

And as I said earlier, my vote stills goes for the Cotton City. In this post-Katrina Gulf Coast, Mobile is growing even faster than before. In 2006, every event helded in Mobile annually saw the biggest crowds ever from Mardi Gras, with 240,000 people on Fat Tuesday, to Bayfest. Anyway I found an article on www.toledoblade.com about Mobile and here it is:

Mobile, Alabama: Surprise in the South

By MIKE KELLY
SPECIAL TO THE BLADE

MOBILE, Ala. – It was early Saturday evening, and we were people-watching in the spacious second-floor lobby of our hotel, the downtown Riverview Plaza.

Groups of women wore classic black tuxedos with long tailcoats, and there were several men in white tie and tails as well. But a number of the men made quite a different fashion statement, strolling through the lobby in colorful sequined frocks. One burly guy with a full red beard strained the seams of his glittery blue gown, and through the gauzy shawl that was draped across his shoulders we could see a big tattoo of a butterfly on his ample upper arm.

Elsewhere in the lobby stood knots of strapping young men wearing sweatshirts and ball caps from major colleges across the country. They, too, couldn’t help but stare at the colorful passing parade – some maybe a little too openly.

“Hey, there, Bubba, like whatcha see?” inquired one of the sequin-clad gentlemen, a cigarette holder hanging loosely from the corner of his brightly painted lips.

The moment provided a revealing snapshot of this historic port city of 200,000 people that’s tucked into the southwest corner of Alabama, not far from the Gulf of Mexico. The state’s oldest city and its only seaport, Mobile is not the kind of place you’d expect to find in the Deep South.

And that’s the way the folks here like it.

“We don’t even market Mobile as part of Alabama,” said Landon Howard, vice president of the Mobile Bay Convention and Visitors Bureau. “We market it as part of the Gulf Coast.”

As for that peculiar scene in our hotel lobby, the gaily dressed folks were on their way to the annual Osiris Ball, being held that night across the street at the city’s glittery new convention center. Each year, the invitation-only party — for gays, lesbians, and all manner of free spirits — is the unofficial preamble to the city’s biggest event, its 2½-week Mardi Gras celebration, which this year runs Feb. 2-20. (See accompanying story.)

And the young jocks were some of the 100 or so college football players in Mobile for the Senior Bowl, an All-Star game played here each winter to showcase top NFL prospects. The players were in early for the all-important workouts, where coaches from every professional team would be watching closely and taking note of possible selections in the league’s April draft.

Mobile (that’s Moe-BEEL, by the way, not MOE-beel, according to the locals) might be one of the more surprising cities in the South, and it’s definitely one of the most delightful. It’s got all the tradition you’d expect from a community that predates the formation of the United States, but because it’s been an international port for centuries, it’s both cosmopolitan and hip.

Since its founding more than three centuries ago as the first capital of French colonial Louisiana, Mobile has spent time under the flags of both Britain and Spain before being seized for good by the U.S. in 1813. During the 1800s, it became one of the busiest port cities in the country, a major shipping point for cotton and other raw materials.

The city played a key role for the Confederacy during the Civil War, producing the first submarine to sink an enemy vessel in combat. It was also the scene of a major naval battle in 1864 during which a Union commander was said to have uttered the famous line: “Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!”

Mobile’s shipyards churned out impressive numbers of naval vessels for World War II, and a major military air base here was the area’s biggest employer until the mid-’60s, when its closing signaled the beginning of a downward spiral in the local economy.

During the 1990s, as casinos in nearby Mississippi raked in millions in tax revenues, Mobile saw none of that growth. Gambling was, and still is, illegal in Alabama, except for Indian reservations.

In recent years, however, Mobile’s fortunes have been turning around. The city has revitalized much of its economy, relying on growing industries such as shipbuilding, aerospace, health research, and, more recently, tourism. And it’s still a busy port city. With one of the largest deepwater ports in the country, it handles upwards of 50 million tons of cargo a year.

Since 2004, Mobile has also been the home port of Carnival Cruise Line’s 1,450-passenger Holiday, which makes year-round 4 and 5-day trips to Cozumel and the Western Caribbean.

A big part of the financing for the city’s resurgence has come from the Retirement Systems of Alabama, the pension fund for state employees and teachers. RSA has pumped more than $300 million into a six-block area of Mobile’s downtown, paying for the new cruise ship terminal, a $32 million facelift at the Riverview Plaza, and the $200 million restoration of the historic Battle House Hotel.

The beautifully restored hotel is scheduled to reopen within the next few months, and an adjoining office tower will be the tallest office building on the Gulf Coast this side of Houston.

Hurricanes have been an unpleasant fact of life along the Gulf Coast, but Mobile has been largely spared from the worst effects of high winds and flooding. The city is 30 miles from the Gulf of Mexico, sheltered by Mobile Bay, and it’s nearly 20 feet above sea level. Even 2005’s deadly Hurricane Katrina dealt Mobile only a glancing blow. Although parts of the city incurred damage, reconstruction left the city in better shape than it had been before the storm.

One local attraction that didn’t fare so well was the USS Alabama, a 42,000-ton, World War II-era battleship that is the centerpiece of a memorial park just off the causeway that crosses Mobile Bay. Also on display there is a WW II submarine, the USS Drum, and dozens of retired combat aircraft. Brought to Mobile in the mid-’60s, the “Mighty A” has attracted more than 12 million visitors to the memorial park.

But the ship, and the rest of the park, were closed after Katrina’s surge lifted the 84 million-pound vessel off of its moorings and plopped it back down in the mud of Mobile Bay. The damage to the ship and other parts of the park was estimated at $7 million.

The park reopened last year, and both the Alabama (surprisingly spacious, even the crew’s bunks) and the Drum (surprisingly cramped) are once again open for self-guided tours.

There are lots of other links to military history in Mobile, including Fort Conde, a replica of the original 18th century French fort where the city began. It’s located right in the middle of downtown, and houses a city welcome center and costumed tour guides. It’s a good first stop for visitors to Mobile, with free maps and brochures of local attractions.

There’s also Fort Gaines, a five-sided rampart on nearby Dauphin Island, where a costumed ranger will fire a cannon if you ask him nicely. But if you value your eardrums, have somebody else take the picture while you plug your ears, because the cannon is really loud.

Many of the city’s boulevards are lined with oak trees draped with Spanish moss, and walking tours pass by antebellum mansions, handsome Queen Anne Victorians, and stately Federal town homes. Some of the buildings downtown have balconies like those in New Orleans, lined with ornate ironwork.

Like many cities of its size, Mobile’s downtown has its share of boarded-up storefronts, and some sidewalks with weeds poking through the cracks, the lingering signs of a once-depressed economy. But the city encourages use of the downtown with free electric trolley service, and volunteers are usually available to help people with stalled cars, give directions, or even serve as escorts.

Several museums are scattered around the city. Among the best:

wThe Exploreum Science Center, whose current exhibit, “A Day in Pompeii,” features items that were buried under 30 feet of volcanic ash for 17 centuries. There also are body casts of some of the volcano’s victims caught in their final moments of life. (The exhibit is here until June 3).

wMobile Museum of Art, with exhibits of Linda McCartney’s candid photos of ’60s rock stars, and photos by Ansel Adams (both until April 15).

wMuseum of Mobile, with an emotionally charged exhibit on the transatlantic slave trade (until Sept. 2).

wThe Estuarium, part of the Dauphin Island Sea Lab, a marine education and research center that studies the ecosystems of coastal Alabama.

wMobile Carnival Museum, where masks, crowns, scepters, floats, and other Mardi Gras paraphernalia celebrate the oldest celebration of the annual carnival in North America.

For outdoor lovers, there are plenty of opportunities nearby for hiking, fishing, boating, birding, and other activities. A new facility called 5 Rivers is a gateway to 250,000 acres of waterways, woods, and wetlands. It even has four floating camping platforms that can be used by boaters.

Just outside the city is one of the South’s top horticultural attractions, the 65-acre Bellingrath Gardens, where azaleas, camellias, lilies, mums, roses, and other flowers bloom year-round, and visitors can poke around in a 70-year-old English Renaissance mansion full of original furnishings, including the world’s largest collection of Boehm porcelain china.

The city also prides itself on its culinary offerings. One of the oldest and most famous places in town is Wintzell’s Oyster House, a casual joint where it’s hard to look away from the thousands of silly signs plastered all over the walls (“Alcohol and gas do mix, but they taste terrible,” says one.) long enough to enjoy the oysters, which are served up “fried, stewed, or nude.”

Other top choices include 219, a gourmet downtown sandwich shop; Felix’s Fish Camp, which has a spectacular view of the bay; and the Original Oyster House, which was rebuilt after being leveled by Katrina in 2005. Many of the restaurants in town feature an unusual concoction called “West Indies salad,” made from crabmeat, grated onions, oil, and vinegar.

Mobile has also become a noteworthy golfing destination. With dozens of courses nearby, Golf Digest magazine places Mobile in its Top 10 areas in the country for year-round golf. One of its best courses is Magnolia Grove, the southernmost stop on the famous Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail, a collection of 10 championship-caliber clubs across Alabama. (The Golf Trail, too, was financed by the state retirement system.)

Another sport that will figure prominently in Mobile’s future is auto racing. A former four-term mayor of Mobile, Mike Dow, is heading an investment group that’s working to bring a $600 million racing and entertainment complex to the area.The motorsports portion of the complex will be the first anywhere in the world to include four different types of racetracks: a 7/10-mile lighted oval, a 3/8-mile dirt track, a 3½-mile road course, and a quarter-mile dragstrip.

The complex will also include hotels, restaurants, a 5,000-space RV park, four music halls like those found in Branson, Mo.; a water park or theme park, and a 7,000-seat arena. Construction is scheduled to start next year.

Besides Mardi Gras, Mobile maintains an almost continuous lineup of festivals throughout the year — BirdFest, Mum Fest, Greek Fest, Pecan Fest, Jazz Fest, Beer Fest — but none is bigger than its annual BayFest in October, which has featured such entertainers as B.B. King, Al Green, 3 Doors Down, Patti LaBelle, and Taylor Hicks.

There’s no denying that Mobile has come a long way from its days as a tiny French colonial settlement, and local officials are optimistic that it’s on the verge of becoming a big-time tourist destination.

“This is a great coastal community,” said Leon Maisel, president of the Mobile Bay Convention & Visitors Bureau. “We’re of the same genre as Savannah and Charleston. Now it’s our time to be known.”

Mike Kelly is a retired Blade travel writer. Contact him at kelly.writer@yahoo.com.

Vulcan

March 16th, 2007, 09:20 PM

Eddy Gordo

March 17th, 2007, 07:32 AM

I used to have a friend that claimed his Daphne subdivision was the second largest or second largest at one time

i know that place, it's called Lake Forest.

I think Mobile will become a better bigger city within the next 5 more years (if it hasn't already). With RSA Tower opening, the cruise terminal, the making of the Alabama Motorsports Park near Prichard, and a new steel plant, it should definitely give Mobile's economy a boost. Mobile might annex to gain more population if it continues to decline, but i doubt it would happen.

I want to know if Mobile is gonna link another bridge to Baldwin County, because traffic is starting to get bad on the freeways.

MobileAL1

March 17th, 2007, 08:52 AM

This whole issue with Birmingham is interesting indeed. It’s true, Birmingham has a sad growth record and has trailed almost every major metro area in the Southeast; however, this in-state (Alabama) discussion about what city is going to replace Birmingham as the economic powerhouse of the state is sad, sad, sad, sad sad………………..SAD!

The fact of the matter is that Alabama is a slow growing state – one of the slowest in the nation. What’s more interesting is that Metropolitan Birmingham is one of the fastest growing regions of Alabama and sadly ranks second in growth to Huntsville among the top five largest metro areas in the state. Apparently, it is believed that Mobile or Montgomery will replace Birmingham as the economic center of the state. That’s cool – it happens, but let’s takes the rose colored glasses off for a moment.

Mobile’s population loss rivals that of Birmingham – decreasing from 198,915 in 2000 to 191,544 in 2005. Mobile is one of the fastest declining cities in the nation – ranking up there with Birmingham. And Metropolitan Mobile has grown 0% since 2000 – hardly a booming area. What is even more interesting, Metro Birmingham added three counties to the metro area. Metro Mobile lost a major county from the last Census – decreasing the Metropolitan Mobile population to just 400,000.

Montgomery had a population loss of 1% between 2000 and 2005 and Montgomery’s metropolitan growth rate trails even sad old Birmingham – so how is the capital city a threat?

The only city and metropolitan region in the state that is a threat to Metro Birmingham (in my humble opinion) is Huntsville. Huntsville has a 2005 metro population of 368,661 and a consolidated Huntsville – Decatur metro population of 500,000 plus. But even Huntsville’s 2000 to 2005 growth rate lags many Southeastern metropolitan areas, increasing from 342,376 in 2000 to 368,661 in 2005. Huntsville’s growth rate would only be considered average in the fast growing states of Florida, North Carolina and Arizona. But for Alabama, Huntsville’s growth is quite impressive.

In summary, I think it’s ridiculous to use Birmingham as the poster child of slow lagging growth in Alabama – when in-fact (and a sad fact at that) Metro Birmingham is among the top growing regions in this slow growing state. Considering Alabama’s population growth - the pot is as black as the kettle.

This Census numbers are pre-Katrina estimates. Like I said, Mobile is growing faster after Katrina. Its also bothers me that you did not include Birmingham's estimates. You fail to realize more Americans are moving to the coast. Also, Baldwin County is the fastest growing county in Alabama, 38th in the nation. As of October 2005 Mobile County estimated population was 451,003, while in January 2006 it went down to 418,124. Which means 16,966 people decided to stay in Mobile County because of Katrina. It is estimated that 10,000 of that stay in the city. So I won't be surprised if the city of Mobile has the biggest population gain this year. And as far as Baldwin County being taken from Mobile's Metero, within the next 3 years it will be added back. Ask anyone who travels across the Bayway to Baldwin County between 4pm and 6pm "is Baldwin County part of Mobile Metro", I doubt you will get a "no". Another thing, with the new motorsports park and if the 2.9 billion steel plant is built in North Mobile County don't be surprised if Washington County, AL and Jackson County, MS are added to Mobile's Metro.

Blazer85

March 19th, 2007, 02:28 AM

Fear of Heights, besides agreeing you have a sweet name considering this website I agree with you that Northern Jefferson Country should be ripe for the picking when the major freeways get completed. With the new shopping plaza (I forgot the name) on Grant's Mill Road and I-459 about to break ground, there are really few places left along the southern arc of the city to have a new pocket of development. That should help fill the Trussville to 280 gap, and just a little further out Leeds is about to get its Bass Pro Shop. So yeah, I agree that in the future Northern Jefferson County, which arguablly has even more dramatic landscape in spots than Southern, could become a hotbed for development, even if it will probably be the kind I just wrote about when describing Montdumbery.

As a resident of Northern Jefferson County, I can attest to the fact this has already begun to happen. There are not hundreds, but thousands of new homes going up in Gardendale and Fultondale alone. Just about every month, Gardendale posts new records for building permits issued. Then there's quite a bit of development in Morris and Kimberly as well. Commercial growth is also beginning to explode out here. Gardendale is the center of all this development and is primed to become "the next Hoover." This is all even without any impact yet from I-22 or the Northern Beltline. Once those interstates come on line, you'll really see the growth and development out here rival that of the Southern Beltline.

I think people get far too carried away with the competitiveness of trying to overtake Birmingham. Frankly, no city in Alabama is going to overtake Greater Birmingham any time soon in terms of population...maybe ever. But that's not even the point. I see alot of great things beginning to happen in Huntsville and Mobile. Things in Alabama as a whole are really looking up. Development is going on everywhere, thousands of new jobs have been created, etc etc. Alabama is actually becoming a MODEL to other states in terms of economic development. All of Alabama's major cities need to focus on being themselves. Huntsville doesn't need to try to be Birmingham... nor Mobile. Mobile doesn't need to try to be Birmingham. The cities are who they are and they should be proud of that and build on that rather than trying to compete with other cities in the state.

g-man430

March 19th, 2007, 04:12 AM

Mobile. Look at this thing called RSA Tower for proof of that.

Atlman1

March 19th, 2007, 04:58 AM

Birmingham will always be the economic center for Alabama. I don't see any cities catching up to it anytime soon. Yes, Alabama's other metros will continue to grow. Auburn, I believe, is the next area to watch. It is growing at an unprecedented rate, and has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the state. There are new companies expanding in the area all of the time. Its proximity to Atlanta, Columbus, and Montgomery is key to the city's continued growth.

LSyd

March 19th, 2007, 02:24 PM

Mobile. Look at this thing called RSA Tower for proof of that.

:lol: :ohno:

-

yakirz

March 19th, 2007, 05:03 PM

PiperPig

March 19th, 2007, 06:18 PM

I stopped in a restaurant in Anniston two weeks ago---much bigger place than I thought it would be!!!! Oh, and I then I went to Birmingham, which is impressive to say the least. I loved it there. I honestly regret not applying to Samford.......

B'ham Bound

March 19th, 2007, 10:22 PM

:lol: :ohno:

-

I was thinking the same thing, but I didn't want to come off as an asshat.

yakirz

March 19th, 2007, 10:51 PM

ttownfeen

March 20th, 2007, 04:05 AM

I'd love to see Anniston get some development and recognition.

For years I've imagined a University Of East Alabama in Anniston :) I drew out a campus once, not terribly different than the one in Tuscaloosa, but a little more compact, with more high-rise dorms/apartments than in Tuscaloosa.

They should rename Jax State to the University of East Alabama. It's the only one left: Florence State became UNA, Livingston State because UWA and Troy State became just plain Troy. Well there's Athens State still. Oh well.

g-man430

March 20th, 2007, 04:58 AM

I'll say it again. Mobile, because of the RSA Battlehouse Tower. :)

yakirz

March 20th, 2007, 03:17 PM

They should rename Jax State to the University of East Alabama. It's the only one left: Florence State became UNA, Livingston State because UWA and Troy State became just plain Troy. Well there's Athens State still. Oh well.

Athens State = University of North Central Alabama? ;)

Here in Augusta we have a branch of Troy... weird.

PiperPig

March 20th, 2007, 03:57 PM

I'm glad you made the trip to the Promised Land :)

Let me just say that Birmingham rocks the lobster. That is one cool town. I'm going back Saturday!!!

deesonic

March 20th, 2007, 04:36 PM

Athens State = University of North Central Alabama? ;)

Here in Augusta we have a branch of Troy... weird.

Well it only took a week to get my approval to sign in, but finally, here I am.:banana:

First of all, as an alum of Jax State, I say no way in heck do we allow our name to be changed to UEA! I'm not opposed to a name change necessarily, I just don't want it to become just another regionally named school.

Secondly, as a former resident of Augusta GA and soldier, I can tell you that Troy has campuses all over the world. They have really tied themselves into the military education system and tend to be wherever there is a base (Ft Gordon for instance).

Lastly, an interesting note about Athens State University...it is unique in that it is only an upper two-year college. I work a few miles down the road from Athens at Calhoun Community College (lower 2) in Decatur and we have a symbiotic relationship with them.

B'ham Bound

March 21st, 2007, 02:04 AM

Let me just say that Birmingham rocks the lobster. That is one cool town. I'm going back Saturday!!!

Glad you enjoyed the city. We'll welcome you with open arms... and lobster claws.

yakirz

March 21st, 2007, 02:42 AM

PiperPig is big on lobsters :tongue2:

yakirz

March 21st, 2007, 02:45 AM

Well it only took a week to get my approval to sign in, but finally, here I am.:banana:

First of all, as an alum of Jax State, I say no way in heck do we allow our name to be changed to UEA! I'm not opposed to a name change necessarily, I just don't want it to become just another regionally named school.

Secondly, as a former resident of Augusta GA and soldier, I can tell you that Troy has campuses all over the world. They have really tied themselves into the military education system and tend to be wherever there is a base (Ft Gordon for instance).

Lastly, an interesting note about Athens State University...it is unique in that it is only an upper two-year college. I work a few miles down the road from Athens at Calhoun Community College (lower 2) in Decatur and we have a symbiotic relationship with them.

Wonder if Calhoun CC will ever merge with Athens State... seems like a sensible thing to do.

Were you in Augusta just while at Ft. Gordon? If so, did you like it here? My sister met a soldier who was here for basic and then more advanced training, and now they're married, with him in Baghdad (hopefully to come home in September).

ttownfeen

March 21st, 2007, 03:09 AM

It's logistically possible. Athens State is the only university under the control of the Department of Postsecondary Education along with all the community colleges in the state.

I don't know much about Athens State the campus, but I like what I saw at Calhoun. It has a collegial atmosphere, with multiple buildings spread around a small campus. (It's much better than Shelton State down here in Tuscaloosa, which looks like a gargantuan high school.) If it's really close to ASU, then maybe a split campus could work. I really don't know enough about either school to have a well-founded opinion.

MobileAL1

March 21st, 2007, 09:21 AM

When you consider the amount of people that travel between Mobile and Pensacola, the numbers are enormous. Those of us who reside in the Mobile Metropolitan Area not only consider Baldwin County but also Pensacola as part of the area. Since Hurricane Katrina I can also safely add Pascagoula and other parts of southern Mississippi that depend on services that we have here that they are no longer privileged with. So if you count the amount of people who live in Mobile's Viewing Area, which will be the new MSA within the next 20 years called Mobile-Pensacola-Pascagoula MSA, you will get a number that exceeds that of Birmingham-Hoover MSA and CSA. So you ask how could Mobile grow bigger than Birmingham within 20 years, the land is there and the people are there. The area's population is already that of the Birmingham area. The only problem there was, was Mobile being centralized as the seat of the area and I can say Katrina helped that problem. Now neighbors from all directions travel to Mobile for service. So don't be surprised when this counties united to form a new MSA.

As far as city population, its hard for me to believe Mobile is losing population. I do believe Mobile will overtake Birmingham as the state's largest city. One thing that would fasten this is the annexation of West Mobile. The city will still grow if this action is not taken. Birmingham is losing to many people to keep this title. By 2020, Birmingham will fall to one of its peers and I believe that will be Mobile.

B'ham Bound

March 21st, 2007, 12:23 PM

Hmm... I seem to remember this thread being titled "Next Large Alabama City?". Not "which state metro would overtake Birmingham."

deesonic

March 21st, 2007, 04:08 PM

Hmm... I seem to remember this thread being titled "Next Large Alabama City?". Not "which state metro would overtake Birmingham."

If this thread is not about what city will be the next largest metro, then it begs the question of what 'large' means. Since recently returning home to Huntsville all I've heard is about how this place is about to explode with jobs and people from BRAC and I can't help but think it's just a matter of time before Huntsville/Decatur/Athens/Madison become at least the second major metro in the state. Now, if we only had a building or two downtown to reflect our optimism like Mobile.

Outside of the 'big 4,' I'd say Auburn/Opelika is well on its way to moving into the 5th spot. Roll Tide nevertheless...

Blazer85

March 21st, 2007, 04:16 PM

Even IF you combine the Pascagoula MSA, the Pensacola MSA, and the Mobile CSA... you still only get a number roughly AROUND that of the Birmingham CSA (approx. 1.1-1.2 million). And you don't realize what a HUGE stretch that is to include Pensacola and Pascagoula MSAs. I mean, Birmingham is closer to getting Talladega and Tuscaloosa County to join the Birmingham MSA than Mobile is to getting Pensacola or Pascagoula in their MSA. In fact, I've heard it's very likely Talladega Co. will be included in the Birmingham MSA or CSA as soon as the next Census.

I mean, cities can annex all they want to try to make themselves look larger, but it doesn't mean anything. I mean city population-wise, Memphis is about 3-4 times that of Birmingham. But when you look at the metro population numbers, Birmingham and Memphis are pretty similar. So city population is not really a valid way to look at things any more. Because some have a consolidated government (like Jacksonville, FL and Louisville, KY), while others are still independently run (like Birmingham). If Birmingham had a consolidated county government like some other cities, our "city" population alone would be around 650,000-700,000. So people can play with numbers all they want to try to serve their purposes, but it doesn't make it so.

Eddy Gordo

March 21st, 2007, 08:52 PM

gah

March 21st, 2007, 09:19 PM

Outside of the 'big 4,' I'd say Auburn/Opelika is well on its way to moving into the 5th spot. Roll Tide nevertheless...[/QUOTE]

How much larger is Mongomery (the presumed #4 after B'ham, Mobile, H'ville) than A/O? Any possibility that A/O may challenge for # 4 anytime soon?

DallasTexan

March 21st, 2007, 09:48 PM

what if Mobile were to take Biloxi+Pensacola+Pascagoula in its CSA?

What about Tallahassee? Or Orlando? Or New Orleans?

MobileAL1

March 21st, 2007, 10:00 PM

I mean, cities can annex all they want to try to make themselves look larger, but it doesn't mean anything. I mean city population-wise, Memphis is about 3-4 times that of Birmingham. But when you look at the metro population numbers, Birmingham and Memphis are pretty similar. So city population is not really a valid way to look at things any more. Because some have a consolidated government (like Jacksonville, FL and Louisville, KY), while others are still independently run (like Birmingham). If Birmingham had a consolidated county government like some other cities, our "city" population alone would be around 650,000-700,000. So people can play with numbers all they want to try to serve their purposes, but it doesn't make it so.

When was the last time Birmingham or Jefferson County had population gains? People are fleeing by the thousands. I won't be surprised if JeffCo loses its title as the states largest county. Also, I don't see Birmingham becoming a consolidated government because county and city leaders don't agree on anything up there.

Coastal Alabama will grow faster than the rest of Alabama because access of undeveloped land in both Mobile and Baldwin counties, beauty of Mobile Bay and the Gulf of Mexico, and also the nice climate. Its enough undeveloped land in both counties that you can take Birmingham in place in either county.

g-man430

March 21st, 2007, 10:19 PM

What about Mobile because of the RSA Battlehouse Tower?

Vulcan

March 21st, 2007, 10:38 PM

g-man430

March 21st, 2007, 10:57 PM

If Montgomery is bigger than Mobile, then why does Mobile have bigger and taller skyscrapers?

Bham24yrold

March 21st, 2007, 11:51 PM

When was the last time Birmingham or Jefferson County had population gains? People are fleeing by the thousands. I won't be surprised if JeffCo loses its title as the states largest county. Also, I don't see Birmingham becoming a consolidated government because county and city leaders don't agree on anything up there.

Coastal Alabama will grow faster than the rest of Alabama because access of undeveloped land in both Mobile and Baldwin counties, beauty of Mobile Bay and the Gulf of Mexico, and also the nice climate. Its enough undeveloped land in both counties that you can take Birmingham in place in either county.

And what other county in Alabama has over 650,000 people?. Jefferson County wont be losing the largest county in the state title no time soon, and no people are NOT fleeing the county by the thousands, thats evident by the cookie cutter subdivisions going up like weeds in the county.

Mobile is great city with great assets, but dont get your hopes to high on thinking its gonna become the states largest metro anytime soon.

MobileAL1

March 21st, 2007, 11:51 PM

Montgomery has already overtaken Mobile as the second largest city in Alabama at just over 200,000; however, Montgomery's has started to decline and is now actually loosing population. Metro Montgomery has experienced sluggish population growth as well – not even growing as fast as Alabama’s population growth.

Birmingham is the largest city for now; however, Birmingham and Mobile are hemorrhaging and both rank among the fastest declining cities in the nation.

Huntsville’s (population 166, 313) experienced a population growth of more than 5% and is closing in on Mobile (191,544) as the state’s third largest city. Huntsville’s metropolitan area could possible overtake Mobile as the state’s second largest metropolitan region – considering that Metro Mobile (population 400,000) has experienced 0% population growth since 2000 and Huntsville (369,000) has grown by more than 8%.

Birmingham 231,483 242,820 -4.7%
Mobile 191, 544 198,915 -3.7%
Montgomery 200, 127 201, 568 -0.7%
Huntsville 166, 313 158,216 +5.1%

Like I said, those are pre-Katrina numbers, things have changed since. When you factor in the margin of error, nearly +/-9,000, for population estimates, then the only numbers you really can go by are the actual Census. Mobile as one of the fastest declining cities in the nation...thats funny, maybe Alabama. Don't try to include Mobile long with Birmingham, I need some stats for that. One percentage point make alot of difference in stats. On the other hand, Birmingham losing over 11,000 people in five years, thats horrible. That
translates to nearly 22,000 a decade.

Mobile growth is long overdue. As the city itself is over 300 years old, growth was slowed here by the overshadowed boom of Birmingham in the early to mid 1900s. Now as Birmingham falls, Mobile is beginning to really grow. Plagued by several industries closings in the early part of this decade, Mobile has changed its image and focus to court new businesses and the expansion of old businesses. Nearly 12,000 new jobs are expected in the next 2 years, not including expansion jobs. The amount of construction going on in the Mobile Area is larger than anywhere else in the state.

yakirz

March 22nd, 2007, 12:01 AM

What about Tallahassee? Or Orlando? Or New Orleans?

Because Mobile and Pensacola are close enough to share TV and radio markets, are only an hour apart with a developing county between them. Same for Pascagoula. Those cities weren't just chosen randomly; Tallahassee is a LONG way from Mobile, and New Orleans is just far enough to be out of consideration. However, if development keeps up, I'd love to see a Baton Rouge-New Orleans-Biloxi/Gulfport-Pascagoula-Mobile-Pensacola-Ft. Walton MSA :)

Bham24yrold

March 22nd, 2007, 12:02 AM

MobileAL1

March 22nd, 2007, 12:05 AM

And what other county in Alabama has over 650,000 people?. Jefferson County wont be losing the largest county in the state title no time soon, and no people are NOT fleeing the county by the thousands, thats evident by the cookie cutter subdivisions going up like weeds in the county.

Mobile is great city with great assets, but dont get your hopes to high on thinking its gonna become the states largest metro anytime soon.

The point is there are counties growing faster than Jefferson County is losing population.

MobileAL1

March 22nd, 2007, 12:11 AM

"Now as Birmingham falls"

Dude, why are you wishing the downfall of another city in your own state??. If Alabama lost Birmingham, the financial and medical hub of the state, where would Alabama be??.

I don't consider it wishing when it is already happening. You pick your civic leaders and I guess they feel population doesn't matter. What is being done in Birmingham to increase population?

I think the lost of Mobile would be a worst hit to Alabama than Birmingham.

yakirz

March 22nd, 2007, 12:22 AM

I like Mobile better than Birmingham, but I have no interest in B'ham losing prominence or population; Mobile and Birmingham are in the same state, but there's no reason both can't do well. They don't have that much in common, one's on the Gulf, the other in the hills; one has a lot of heavy industry and medical while the other is more oriented towards tourism - they're different markets. They basically only have their state, and I-65, in common.

Bham24yrold

March 22nd, 2007, 12:22 AM

The point is there are counties growing faster than Jefferson County is losing population.

No, your point was that either Mobile or Baldwin County could become the largest county in the state, which could be maybe in 30 yrs, if ever. The Mobile metro LOST Baldwin County in the last census, so work on getting it back before trying to become king of the hill in Alabama.

Bham24yrold

March 22nd, 2007, 12:33 AM

I don't consider it wishing when it is already happening. You pick your civic leaders and I guess they feel population doesn't matter. What is being done in Birmingham to increase population?

I think the lost of Mobile would be a worst hit to Alabama than Birmingham.

I cant disagree with you on the leadership here, its piss poor (even though I cant vote in Birmingham city elections).

As for your second question, Birmingham is trying to get on same boat with Charlotte, Nashville, and the like in hopes to attract new industry, young professionals, etc etc. Not to sound arrogant, but the Birmingham metro hopefully is starting to think and compete on a bigger stage than Alabama.

DruidCity

March 22nd, 2007, 12:36 AM

Some evidence that Birmingham's decades-long population decline might be reversing :
http://www2.dir.state.al.us/LAUS/LAUS_Metrorates.asp

Metro Birmingham's "civilian labor force" increased by 18,000 from January 2006 to January 2007. Although not an exact correlation, total population of the metro areas is on the order of twice the civilian labor force number, so it's not out of line to estimate that metro Birmingham's population increased by 36,000 or so over the last year .

MobileAL1

March 22nd, 2007, 12:40 AM

No, your point was that either Mobile or Baldwin County could become the largest county in the state, which could be maybe in 30 yrs, if ever. The Mobile metro LOST Baldwin County in the last census, so work on getting it back before trying to become king of the hill in Alabama.

Actually, my two choices would have been either Shelby or Baldwin counties since they are the fastest growing in the state, but since you said Mobile County it could happen, remember you said it not me. Us Mobilians don't too much worry about the lost of Baldwin County because we know it will be added back as well as the addition of newer counties also. Buddy, don't let me sense the tone of being mad, because it only tells me Birmingham is not meeting your expectation also.

g-man430

March 22nd, 2007, 12:40 AM

So, what's the next large city for South Carolina? :lol:

Bham24yrold

March 22nd, 2007, 12:47 AM

So, what's the next large city for South Carolina? :lol:

I'll put my money on Gaffney, SC. I mean they have that HUGE peach water tower:)

MobileAL1

March 22nd, 2007, 12:47 AM

So, what's the next large city for South Carolina? :lol:

Start your own thread and see!:wave:

Fear of Heights

March 22nd, 2007, 12:48 AM

Haven't posted in this topic in a LONG time, but since it's back up. I'm strongly considering a move to the Mobile area. I love Bham but have already lived there before. Montgomery is OK but not as exciting or nice as the other Big 3 in Alabama. Huntsville is unique and is going to be a mid-sized force for years to come but is just not what I'm looking for now. I have a couple of really good friends who now live in Daphne/Fairhope and love it. One of these friends also loved living in the B'ham area and was happy there but got an excellent offer in the Mobile area and made the move. He said it's really laid back there and being so close to the beach is awesome. There is also more going on in Mobile County than there has been in years and the growth along the Baldwin County beaches is off the charts. It's really exciting to see the possibilities in the Foley/Gulf Shores/Orange Beach areas in the coming years.

DruidCity

March 22nd, 2007, 12:52 AM

I have a couple of really good friends who now live in Daphne/Fairhope and love it.

Well, if you want to buy a cheap small condo in Daphne, mine's available :cheers:

B'ham Bound

March 22nd, 2007, 12:58 AM

If Montgomery is bigger than Mobile, then why does Mobile have bigger and taller skyscrapers?

Population and skyscrapers are not proportionally related.

What about Mobile because of the RSA Battlehouse Tower?

An inessential skyscraper that won't have much impact on the area, save for civic pride, does not indicate growth nor does it provide a sign that confirms a city's destiny as its state's top metro. Trust me, growth requires much more substance than a new, shiny tower can provide.

Because Mobile and Pensacola are close enough to share TV and radio markets, are only an hour apart with a developing county between them. Same for Pascagoula.

A city's DMA does not indicate its future MSA. And If your standards were applied equally then Birmingham would soon have to add Tuscaloosa and Anninston into its metro area since it comprises its DMA. The addition of Tuscaloosa and Calhoun Counties would make the addition of Pensacola and Pascagoula's respective counties to Mobile's MSA moot.

---------------------------

Bottom line guys, Birmingham will, more than likely, remain this state's largest region for the foreseeable future. Barring some catastrophic tragedy, such as a nuclear detonation over the Magic City that was provoked by Bush's War on Terror, you nor your kids will live to see the day Birmingham's metro area plummets unimaginably of the map. Feel free to debate about what metro area is growing the fastest, but for everything else, let's keep it in the realm of reality.

Bham24yrold

March 22nd, 2007, 01:00 AM

Actually, my two choices would have been either Shelby or Baldwin counties since they are the fastest growing in the state, but since you said Mobile County it could happen, remember you said it not me. Us Mobilians don't too much worry about the lost of Baldwin County because we know it will be added back as well as the addition of newer counties also. Buddy, don't let me sense the tone of being mad, because it only tells me Birmingham is not meeting your expectation also.

Well, let me let you in on a secret, no Birmingham is not meeting my expectations, and staying in Birmingham after HS graduation is probably one of the biggest mistakes in my life so far, so thats why im looking at leaving Bham within the next year (there is a past thread on this somewhere).

At the same time I dont see Mobile being that shinning city on a hill saving Alabama from whatever holds it back. Again, Mobile is great city, and its deserving on whatever the future holds for it.

MobileAL1

March 22nd, 2007, 01:05 AM

MobileAL1

March 22nd, 2007, 01:23 AM

Bottom line guys, Birmingham will, more than likely, remain this state's largest region for the foreseeable future. Barring some catastrophic tragedy, such as a nuclear detonation over the Magic City that was provoked by Bush's War on Terror, you nor your kids will live to see the day Birmingham's metro area plummets unimaginably of the map. Feel free to debate about what metro area is growing the fastest, but for everything else, let's keep it in the realm of reality.

:blahblah:

Maybe you need to wake-up. If you'll kept it in the realm of reality, Birmingham wouldn't be STILL losing population.

MobileAL1

March 22nd, 2007, 01:25 AM

Well, let me let you in on a secret, no Birmingham is not meeting my expectations, and staying in Birmingham after HS graduation is probably one of the biggest mistakes in my life so far, so thats why im looking at leaving Bham within the next year (there is a past thread on this somewhere).

At the same time I dont see Mobile being that shinning city on a hill saving Alabama from whatever holds it back. Again, Mobile is great city, and its deserving on whatever the future holds for it.

I suggest you move to the Mobile Area, its good for young people.

Bham24yrold

March 22nd, 2007, 01:26 AM

:blahblah:

Maybe you need to wake-up. If you'll kept it in the realm of reality, Birmingham wouldn't be STILL losing population.

Call me the day the Mobile metro reaches the 1.1-1.2 million mark:ohno:

yakirz

March 22nd, 2007, 01:34 AM

So, what's the next large city for South Carolina? :lol:

I want Hilton Head to have Dubai's skyline, and Columbia to have a population of 2,000,000 :)

yakirz

March 22nd, 2007, 01:37 AM

A city's DMA does not indicate its future MSA. And If your standards were applied equally then Birmingham would soon have to add Tuscaloosa and Anninston into its metro area since it comprises its DMA. The addition of Tuscaloosa and Calhoun Counties would make the addition of Pensacola and Pascagoula's respective counties to Mobile's MSA moot.

---------------------------

Bottom line guys, Birmingham will, more than likely, remain this state's largest region for the foreseeable future. Barring some catastrophic tragedy, such as a nuclear detonation over the Magic City that was provoked by Bush's War on Terror, you nor your kids will live to see the day Birmingham's metro area plummets unimaginably of the map. Feel free to debate about what metro area is growing the fastest, but for everything else, let's keep it in the realm of reality.

I'd be happy to see Birmingham stretch from Anniston to Tuscaloosa :) I'm not anti-Birmingham in the least, and I'm fine with Mobile being Alabama's second city. I want to see both improve and change outsiders' views of Alabama.

B'ham Bound

March 22nd, 2007, 01:38 AM

:blahblah:

Maybe you need to wake-up. If you'll kept it in the realm of reality, Birmingham wouldn't be STILL losing population.

And that makes sense, how? The fact that you grammatically butchered that sentence should be enough to deter me from replying... Unfortunately, I have a soft spot for blind asshats who major in abject homerism. I apologize for having the audacity to interject logos into your debate. The better part of me should have realized that you wouldn't let a little ol' thing like sound logic ruin your argument. I wish you the best in your future attempts to embarrass your city and your rationally-minded neighbors. Now, if you'll excuse me... I have to go. Feel free to masturbate with sandpaper until I return.

B'ham Bound

March 22nd, 2007, 01:40 AM

I'd be happy to see Birmingham stretch from Anniston to Tuscaloosa :) I'm not anti-Birmingham in the least, and I'm fine with Mobile being Alabama's second city. I want to see both improve and change outsiders' views of Alabama.

Sorry, if I reacted harshly. I, more than likely interpreted your comments as being anti-Birmingham. These threads that turn into city vs. city statements suspend my better judgment sometimes. But, let's hope that Birmingham only stretches from Anninston to Tuscaloosa in MSA only. I couldn't possibly fathom that much sprawl... but then again, I do go to Atlanta on a regular basis.

g-man430

March 22nd, 2007, 01:48 AM

I want Hilton Head to have Dubai's skyline, and Columbia to have a population of 2,000,000 :)

Greenville will win. :cheers:

LSyd

March 22nd, 2007, 01:51 AM

Population and skyscrapers are not proportionally related.

An inessential skyscraper that won't have much impact on the area, save for civic pride, does not indicate growth nor does it provide a sign that confirms a city's destiny as its state's top metro. Trust me, growth requires much more substance than a new, shiny tower can provide.

---------------------------

Bottom line guys, Birmingham will, more than likely, remain this state's largest region for the foreseeable future. Barring some catastrophic tragedy, such as a nuclear detonation over the Magic City that was provoked by Bush's War on Terror, you nor your kids will live to see the day Birmingham's metro area plummets unimaginably of the map. Feel free to debate about what metro area is growing the fastest, but for everything else, let's keep it in the realm of reality.

:lol:

-

g-man430

March 22nd, 2007, 01:53 AM

Mobile, because of that thing that's really tall and shiny that Birmingham wishes it had and is jealous because they don't.

yakirz

March 22nd, 2007, 01:56 AM

Greenville will win. :cheers:

Nothing against Greenville, I've never even been there, but with so many Bob Jones types I don't think it can match Columbia ;)

Wasn't the latest news from the upstate that Chris Sligh's preacher is upset he's dabbling in all that devil music? :tongue2:

http://www.charleston.net/assets/webPages/departmental/news/Stories.aspx?section=stateregion&tableId=135473&pubDate=3/21/2007

Blazer85

March 22nd, 2007, 02:08 AM

I can respect the opinions of most Mobile forumers. One, in particular, has been a problem before on other boards that required the action of the moderators. I mean Mobile is a growing town for sure, but I've been there ALOT of the course of my life, and currently, it's not even comparable to Birmingham. I like Mobile just fine and hope it continues to grow, but to say Birmingham is declining is simply NOT true. The only place where Birmingham is declining (which is somewhat a topic of debate) is in CITY population. The Greater Birmingham Area (a MUCH better indicator) is growing... and growing rapidly.

This whole concept that people are "fleeing" Birmingham is simply not true. No one is fleeing. Many are simply relocating within the metro area. If anything, it's a sign that things are really growing in Jefferson County. I know alot of folks in my end of northern Jefferson County moving northwards to Blount County and Walker County (both still within the Greater Birmingham Area) b/c the area where I'm at is growing like crazy and alot of the "old-timers" that like things as they were, are leaving because of the traffic and growth. That's actually not a bad thing... different things for different people. It allows other young people that are more progressive to move in and take their place. So you see, Birmingham isn't losing ANYTHING. We're growing... and growing faster all the time.

Mobile folks want to hang their world on the RSA Tower. It's fine and good and all... it's a nice skyscraper, but do you think that makes you a bigger or better city than Birmingham?? Why all the competitiveness? Birmingham's got alot going on in terms of quantity. Doesn't get the attention simply because it's not setting any kind of record or anything.

Here's a list of just a few projects within the Birmingham city limits:

UNDER CONSTRUCTION:
Social Security Administration Building (8-stories)
The Capri (10-stories)
2600 Highland (8-stories)
Southside Residence Inn (7-stories)
etc, etc

PROPOSED/APPROVED PROJECTS:
Federal Reserve Hotel/Condos (18-stories)
Corporate Realty Hotel/Condos/Office (16-stories)
The Summit Condominiums (15-stories)
Standard Midtown (11-stories)
Hyatt Place (6-stories)
UAB Women and Infants Hospital (7-stories)
etc, etc

REDEVELOPMENT PROJECTS
City Federal (27-stories)
Leer Tower (20-stories)
etc, etc

Birmingham is already a pretty dense city... and these projects will only increase Birmingham's density. People are obsessed with sheer height and that's not always what it's about at all. Density and the number of projects going on can be a very big indicator.

This doesn't even include alot of other midrise type developments planned or under construction elsewhere in Greater Birmingham:

Colonial Center (9-stories)
Westin at Colonial Brookwood (6-stories)
Marriott at Colonial Promenade Fultondale (8-stories)
Embassy Suites in Hoover (10-stories)
etc, etc

Keep on hating Birmingham... it's not going to do anything to stop our growth.

g-man430

March 22nd, 2007, 02:11 AM

^^Somebody's jealous of that tall shiny thing that just got built in Mobile. :lol:

B'ham Bound

March 22nd, 2007, 02:15 AM

^^Somebody's jealous of that tall shiny thing that just got built in Mobile. :lol:

Granted, I've had a long day so I might not be as astute in my observations as I should be... but you are joking, right?

Bham24yrold

March 22nd, 2007, 02:16 AM

^^Somebody's jealous of that tall shiny thing that just got built in Mobile. :lol:

Yeah the 1.1-1.2 million people are really ticked about the battle tower in Mobile:ohno:

I would assume that the RSA would of built a tower that large in Birmingham, if it wasnt for that FAA height restriction BS over downtown Bham.

g-man430

March 22nd, 2007, 02:20 AM

Granted, I've had a long day so I might not be as astute in my observations as I should be... but you are joking, right?

No, i'm not joking. You keep posting all of these facts about how Birmingham is bigger in population, but aren't taking into consideration the skyline of any of these cities. Which city has the biggest and tallest skyline? The thread title says "Next large Alabama city?" Is Lysd talking about population, skyline, or both? You guys seem to only be focusing on population and not the other factors that play into with how large a city looks and feels.

yakirz

March 22nd, 2007, 02:21 AM

How hard would it be for B'ham to start a new skyline in the southside, where the airport's not an issue? There'd be two distinct downtowns, and the space in between could be filled in with midrise residential.

DruidCity

March 22nd, 2007, 02:22 AM

A lot has been said about the RSA office tower (as this is a skyscraper site, after all) , but what is the tallest residential tower in the state ?
Is it one of the old towers being renovated in Birmingham or maybe one of the condos in Gulf Shores/Orange Beach ?

Blazer85

March 22nd, 2007, 02:23 AM

No, i'm not joking. You keep posting all of these facts about how Birmingham is bigger in population, but aren't taking into consideration the skyline of any of these cities. Which city has the biggest and tallest skyline?

You're kidding, right? Not even close...

g-man430

March 22nd, 2007, 02:25 AM

You're kidding, right? Not even close...

I'm pretty sure Mobile has the tallest and biggest skyline. There is no way Birmingham has a taller skyscraper than the RSA Battlehouse Tower. This is skyscrapercity afterall.

g-man430

March 22nd, 2007, 02:28 AM

I'll admit that i'm jealous that Mobile got this big nice tower and Greenville didn't. Now if only the people from Birmingham would admit to the same jealously.

yakirz

March 22nd, 2007, 02:28 AM

Skyscraper Page shows two 34-story proposed towers in Orange Beach, and five or six proposed or under construction towers on the beach that are taller than City Federal in B'ham. I think in the end Gulf Shores/Orange Beach will have the densest, if not tallest, skyline in Alabama.

Blazer85

March 22nd, 2007, 02:30 AM

I'm pretty sure Mobile has the tallest and biggest skyline. There is no way Birmingham has a taller skyscraper than the RSA Battlehouse Tower. This is skyscrapercity afterall.

Mobile has the tallest building. But most of the state's larger towers are in Birmingham... this, again goes back to density.

BIRMINGHAM

http://www.mostlivable.org/cities/birmingham/images/HOME-MISC/web_Birm_sky_sm.jpg

Someone else can post a skyline pic of Mobile and you can see.

yakirz

March 22nd, 2007, 02:35 AM

Mobile has the tallest building. But most of the state's larger towers are in Birmingham... this, again goes back to density.

BIRMINGHAM

http://www.mostlivable.org/cities/birmingham/images/HOME-MISC/web_Birm_sky_sm.jpg

Someone else can post a skyline pic of Mobile and you can see.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h123/Blazer85_photos/8defe982.jpg

yakirz

March 22nd, 2007, 02:36 AM

There's one 28-story building not in that photo.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h123/Blazer85_photos/4673a8e0.jpg

Blazer85

March 22nd, 2007, 02:38 AM

And here's sort of a "profile" of a portion of downtown Birmingham.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/58/Birmingham_Airport.PNG

yakirz

March 22nd, 2007, 02:39 AM

Mobile has the height, but B'ham has the width :)

g-man430

March 22nd, 2007, 02:40 AM

^^See. Now everybody is getting along. :)

B'ham Bound

March 22nd, 2007, 02:41 AM

This should sum it up nicely:

http://photos-558.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v11/136/5/7010163/n7010163_3516558_4008.jpg

And to the person who asked about a Southside skyline: There have actually been a few attempts in the past to do such a thing. In the 80s there was a plan to construct two of the tallest buildings in the Southeast at the time. One was 72 stories and the other was 44. The plan fell through after attempts to secure a primary tenant fizzled.

Also, from what I have heard, the Daniel Building (which is currently around 18 stories) was intended to be twice that height. However, I read that an underground trench was discovered that couldn't be filled so the building's height had to be scaled back. Those projects alone would've given us an entirely different Midtown than the one we know today. But there are a few plans on the drawing board that will give Midtown (the portion of Southside between UAB and downtown) a noticeable skyline. Currently, these plans are for a 16-story mixed-use project, an 11-story condo, and a 6-story hotel.

Bham24yrold

March 22nd, 2007, 02:42 AM

Blazer85

March 22nd, 2007, 02:43 AM

g-man430

March 22nd, 2007, 02:44 AM

There's a show on MTV called Two-A-Days that exposes Hoover well, which is a suburub of Birmingham. :)

yakirz

March 22nd, 2007, 02:45 AM

Skyscraper Page shows for B'ham a mixed-use 45-story tower that is taller than RSA, but I can't find out anything else about it. It shows up if you view B'ham's diagram.

Bham24yrold

March 22nd, 2007, 02:45 AM

B'ham Bound

March 22nd, 2007, 02:46 AM

Thanks Bham Bound... I was looking for a picture to really show of the density, but most pictures I found were from a great distance or really high up so you couldnt really get a perspective on the type of density that exists in Birmingham.

No problem. Here's another one from the northside that I'm fond of:

http://photos-706.ak.facebook.com/ip001/v14/136/5/7010163/n7010163_30165706_4934.jpg

Blazer85

March 22nd, 2007, 02:50 AM

Skyscraper Page shows for B'ham a mixed-use 45-story tower that is taller than RSA, but I can't find out anything else about it. It shows up if you view B'ham's diagram.

There were some rumors of that a couple years ago, but it seems to have died down for the time being. Alot of midrise construction going on right now and several new tall midrises/short highrises on the slate in the next couple years (two 18-story buildings and one 16-stories).

yakirz

March 22nd, 2007, 02:50 AM

There's a show on MTV called Two-A-Days that exposes Hoover well, which is a suburub of Birmingham. :)

My cousins in Vestavia love that show. It's about Hoover's high school football team. I'm not into sports, so I've never watched it.

g-man430

March 22nd, 2007, 02:51 AM

Vestavia will win. Woohoo. :lol:

MobileAL1

March 22nd, 2007, 02:52 AM

Mobile, Alabama
http://encyclopedia.quickseek.com/images/Mobileskyline.jpg

Neither Mobile or Birmingham can compare with the density of Gulf Shores & Orange Beach.

yakirz

March 22nd, 2007, 02:53 AM

Vestavia will win. Woohoo. :lol:

Could happen :tongue2: Tel Aviv was once a small suburb of Yafo, now it's the other way around.

yakirz

March 22nd, 2007, 02:57 AM

Mobile, Alabama
http://encyclopedia.quickseek.com/images/Mobileskyline.jpg

Neither Mobile or Birmingham can compare with the density of Gulf Shores & Orange Beach.

I haven't been to Gulf Shores lately; I wonder if anyone has updated photos?

MobileAL1

March 22nd, 2007, 03:34 AM

Vulcan

March 22nd, 2007, 03:49 AM

My thing is, you people from Birmingham are so insecure that if someone states their opinion about Birmingham and it is not what you like to hear you consider them anti-Birmingham. So you think losing 11,000 people in 5 years is normal. That is alot of people leaving. I have only stated thing that are happening, so prove me wrong. Also, no one from Mobile said anything about the RSA Tower, does this offend you all? If Mobile is not comparable to Birmingham that is because Mobile is better, which is why more people visit Mobile every year than Birmingham.

Mobile is not increasing in population and lost 3.7% since 2000 - that's a fact from the Census. Birmingham lost 4.7% that's a fact from the Census. 3.7% and 4.7% is not much difference. Mobile city is now the third largest in Alabama - that's a fact from the Census and Huntsville is catching up with Mobile. Mobile has the potential of being the fourth largest city in the state -that's speculation based on facts.

Mobile Metro has not grown since 2000 (0%) - that's a fact from the Census. Huntsville could overtake Mobile Metro as Alabama's second largest metro - that's speculation based on the growth trends. Metro Birmingham is growing and adding counties and is now 1.1 million in population - that's a fact from the Census. Metro Birmingham is almost three times larger than Metro Mobile - that's a fact from the Census.

.............. So what part of that do you not understand?

Blazer85

March 22nd, 2007, 03:50 AM

B'ham Bound

March 22nd, 2007, 03:56 AM

My thing is, you people from Birmingham are so insecure that if someone states their opinion about Birmingham and it is not what you like to hear you consider them anti-Birmingham.

Don't confuse logic with insecurity. Stating that Mobile, a metropolitan area one-third the size of Greater Birmingham, will replace the state's largest region is illogical - especially when one considers current growth patterns. I apologize on behalf of my Birmingham neighbors, but idiocy offends us.

So you think losing 11,000 people in 5 years is normal. That is alot of people leaving.

Trust me, we not proud of Birmingham's (proper) hemorrhaging population. Will the trend reverse? There are signs indicating it is already doing so. Regardless, population loss in the central city does not negate population growth in the metropolitan area.

I have only stated thing that are happening, so prove me wrong. Also, no one from Mobile said anything about the RSA Tower, does this offend you all?

Does this offend us? In short, no! We like our density and cluster of mid-rises just fine. Phallic skylines aren't really our thing.

If Mobile is not comparable to Birmingham that is because Mobile is better, which is why more people visit Mobile every year than Birmingham.

I had no idea a city's vitality was directly related to its yearly tourist count. It's safe to assume Biloxi receives more visitors than Mobile. That must mean they're better. Man, debating is so much easier when you don't have to worry yourself with things like making sound arguments.

LSyd

March 22nd, 2007, 04:21 AM

1. mobileal1's...well...blinded by the light gleaming off the RSA tower?
2. thread says next LARGE city, not next largest. Birmingham is the only one that can rightly claim to be large (1 million+ metro,) the rest are mid, and it's obvious that the Bham metro will remain the largest unless a castrophe hits.

-

g-man430

March 22nd, 2007, 04:31 AM

Let's just all go to Taco Bell and discuss this issue. Clemson just won too. :) Right, Lsyd? ;)

MobileAL1

March 22nd, 2007, 05:04 AM

Don't let reason stand in the way of your homerism. Talk about a lack of evidence. Show me evidence that more people visit Mobile than Birmingham... absolutely false. The Birmingham folks aren't insecure. They're simply responding to inaccurate, hateful things being said about Birmingham. You can say you don't like Birmingham. That's an opinion and something everyone is entitled to. That's not the problem the Birmingham folks have with you. The problem we have is when you throw out wild assumptions and false accusations about the situation in Birmingham.

So it is an assumption that Birmingham is losing population? So you tell me, what was the growth rate of Metro Birmingham before the addition the new counties? So you think more people visit the Birmingham area than the Mobile area? Try reading the Alabama Bureau of Tourism & Travel website. Mobile and Baldwin counties add nearly 50% alone to Alabama's Tourism revenues!

You also continue to talk "this was pre-Katrina... that was pre-Katrina." That's a 1 time event, and many folks have already moved elsewhere. Sure, some remained... heck, some remained here in Birmingham. But you act as if this actually constitutes some terribly significant population gain... and it doesn't. Mobile benefited in population TEMPORARILY by virtue of a natural disaster... not because Mobile is "so" much better than Birmingham as you suggest.

Over 50,000 people came to Mobile after Katrina, Chang expects about 16,000 to stay. Mobile was beginning to grow before Katrina but Katrina fueled the fire.

As far as losing 11,000... a few thoughts. First of all, that's an extrapolation based on trends... not a measure of reality. You're also counting on the Census being exactly accurate which has been proven to be false. Even in one of Birmingham's suburbs, the Census estimate was PROVEN to be off by more than 10,000. That's no small number... especially when you're talking about a relatively small suburb. Just proves how inaccurate these things can be. The most accurate Census data to look at is 2000 and 2010. The intermediate years are just absolute estimates based on pretty much no data outside of previous history or trends. And again... those 11,000 are not moving out of Greater Birmingham (even if indeed that many have left the city limits since 2000).

So the Census number for Birmingham are an error, but yet the numbers for Mobile are correct? If 11,000 isn't leaving Birmingham Metro, than over half is. What are the areas migration numbers? Also, 11,000 isn't considered fleeing Birmingham but 6,000 is consider fleeing Mobile?

If you think Mobile is better, say so. Don't go around spouting off wrong data or wild assumptions based more often than not on what you WANT to happen rather than what is actually happening. If you want to talk about how great Mobile is, use facts and talk about what good is happening. Both here and on other boards, about 55% of your posts are tearing down Birmingham... and only 45% are praising Mobile. There's something very interesting to me about that.

The fact that Birmingham is losing population is "tearing down Birmingham"? I really held my tongue as to how I really feel about Birmingham. If you ask, "Which is the most beautiful city," Birmingham would be less of an answer. Whats interesting to me is how mad yall get if someone says something about Birmingham. You Hamsters need to get grip. Yes, I do believe Mobile is better. I also travel to Birmingham 5-10 times a year.