Edit: Please feel free to contribute photos or material, or discuss any aspects of St. John's urban development here.

Some Quick Facts:
St. John's CMA (census metropolitan area) population 2006 census - 181,113, up from 172,918 (2001)
CMA area: 804 sq km
Population Density per sq km: 225.1
St.John's City area - 446 sq km
City population density: 225.6

2006 Census Populations -
Largest Municipalities in the CMA

St. John's City - 100,646
Mount Pearl City - 24,671
Conception Bay South - 21,966
Paradise - 12,584
Portugal Cove-St. Philip's - 6,575
Torbay - 6,281

St. John's CMA Urban Area population: 151,322
Urban Land Area: 182.62
Population Density: 828.6 per sq km.
(^ Updated Mar 2007)

St.John's newest hi-rise addition is nearing completion. This may not look significant, but is the only high-rise project to be built since Cabot Place II, about 1993. It is the 12 storey extension to the Delta Hotel. (That's a tarp covering the top). This, supposedly will make it the largest convention hotel in Atlantic Canada.
http://img127.exs.cx/img127/523/delta20051xz4ns.jpg?blaj
http://img127.exs.cx/img127/3078/delta20053xz6fm.jpg?blaj
Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting (http://www.imageshack.us)

i don't like it, too boxy and too much concrete for me

i don't like it, too boxy and too much concrete for me
If it's the only thing being built, there is not too much room for criticism. It will look better from other angles when it's finished. The original building was put up in 1987, so they had to make this blend in with the rest of it. However, I agree it could have been more imaginative. Most of the office buildings & hotels there have been pretty basic designs, but they still make the city look more urban. Actually, IMO, there is only one prominent "highrise" in the city that is truly horrendous, which is the square brick box, Atlantic Place, built as a shopping mall/office complex in the seventies. This can be forgiven only partly because it was supposed to have a CN hotel tower added on top.

I think it would have looked better if the concrete was white, that way it would better match the building next to it. It's still not bad though.

coolio, looks great !

looks alright for having that much concrete. That said, I'd gladly take a development like that in Sydney. ;)

I'm glad that it is being built it will help the economy and maybe get more business and tourist dollars into the city.

But at the sametime................call me a prick but I think it looks like a bunker with some glass. Sorry, but I actually find it quite an untractive building........just being honest.

I'm glad that it is being built it will help the economy and maybe get more business and tourist dollars into the city.

But at the sametime................call me a prick but I think it looks like a bunker with some glass. Sorry, but I actually find it quite an untractive building........just being honest.
Maybe not great, but don't judge too much by that picture, it's not even finished. Heres the part you can't see.
http://img79.exs.cx/img79/9579/deltaviewcrop6yc.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
To see another one, click here:
http://www.deltahotels.com/hotels/hotels.do?hotelId=7

It does look better there.

not a huge fan. :( looks like it was built in the 1970's.

not a huge fan. :( looks like it was built in the 1970's.

Maybe that's when they started building.

Maybe not great, but don't judge too much by that picture, it's not even finished. Heres the part you can't see.
http://img79.exs.cx/img79/9579/deltaviewcrop6yc.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
To see another one, click here:
http://www.deltahotels.com/hotels/hotels.do?hotelId=7

the yellow glass or reflection makes it look alot better

I think it would have looked better if the concrete was white, that way it would better match the building next to it. It's still not bad though.

It's still under construction so maybe they will paint it. Most likely they will. All buildings start out with grey concrete.. ie. Paramount Place in Vancouver

Here's a more recent photo, shows a change in colour on the concrete; the strange thing is that the glass in the original part was mostly bronze with some blue in the canopy area, but the new part is blue. This photo is from around March, but the building is now complete and has opened. BTW, the original part of the building was built in 1987.
Edit: Replaced photo:
http://upload.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73633072/original.jpg

This project, the Templetons Building, will replace a Water St paint store and 100 year old warehouse between the St.John's waterfront and Water Street. Since highrise buildings are not permitted in the historic district, this building which is about five stories, is thought to fit in better.
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2010/templetonbuildingnb5.jpg

I didn't see many high-rises. The city is full of townhouses except uptown.

Most new construction is 3 or 4 storeys. Because the whole downtown and surrounding areas are considered heritage areas, not much gets built taller than the old buildings. For instance, there is a new condo project (4 stories) to be built in front of the Fairmont Hotel. Even so, the Fairmont complained that it will block their view of The Narrows and ocean.

Condo proposal approved in principle
May 25, 2005

A St. John’s developer has been granted approval in principle to construct a $7 million residential condominium building on property formerly occupied by the Standard Manufacturing company in the city’s east end.

But the general manager of the Fairmont Newfoundland hotel is objecting to development, saying it will “seriously damage” business. St. John’s city council voted in favour of the proposal by well-known developer Paul Madden during its regular meeting Tuesday.

The brick building will be constructed on property located between Water and Duckworth streets, just west of Temperance Street. It will rise four storeys above Duckworth Street, feature up to 30 condominiums, with a starting price of roughly $300,000 and will include indoor parking for the same number of vehicles on the ground level.

The city’s planning department recommended approval, since the proposal satisfies the requirements for residential density and limits on maximum building height.

But in a letter to council, Armand Agabab, general manager of the Fairmont Newfoundland, expressed strong opposition to the proposed development, saying it will block views of St. John’s harbour and The Narrows from the Cabot Club dining room, as well as many of the hotel’s guest rooms.

“Our hotel has served as a landmark in this community for over half-a-century,” Agabab wrote. “Our location on the former site of Fort William overlooking the harbour is essential to what we are – a known landmark which is a key destination of visitors to our community and to the local citizens.”

Agabab said the development will “seriously impair” an existing business to accommodate a new one. “This loss would have a major impact upon both the dining room and guestroom business,” Agabab said.

Some councilors expressed regret that the view from the hotel will be blocked, but said there wasn’t much they could do. The city’s development regulations are intended to protect public views, but it is not the practice of the city to protect private views.

“I’m very disappointed the hotel is going to lose its viewplane, but it is beyond council at this point. It’s zoned for that,” Coun. Sandy Hickman said. Hickman said it was a “fine project” and praised Madden for his previous developments, which includes Spa at the Monastery and Suites on Patrick Street, the former Irish Christian Brothers monastery.

“The project could have been something that was quite unsightly, built with concrete, steel and glass, but here we have a heritage type of building that’s going to enhance the neighbourhood,” Hickman said.

The Water Street side of the property is zoned industrial general (IG), while the Duckworth side of the property is commercial central mixed (CCM). CCM zoning allows dwelling units to be located in the second or higher storey of a commercial building. under this zoning, a building height cannot exceed four storeys, or 15 meters. This zone allows dwelling units on the ground floor of a building as a discretionary use.

Coun. Shannie Duff, who chairs the planning and housing committee, said the building will reflect the character of other buildings in the area, including Devon Row, a nearby designated historic building. “It meets all our zoning requirements for the area, so I would have to say it’s an attractive development,” said Duff, who also chairs the heritage advisory committee.

“The only issue I have with it, and there’s nothing anybody can do about it as far as I can see, is that because it’s situated on the old Matchless Paint site, it will block views from the hotel public rooms and probably some of the higher rooms. “When people see that, there’s going to be disappointment because that’s one of the major feature of the Fairmont,” she explained.

Duff suggested that hotel could have done more to protect its views, since the Standard Manufacturing property was on the market for several years. “I’m sorry the hotel didn’t have more foresight in perhaps moving in at that point and perhaps negotiating some protection of its own views in exchange of development rights,” Duff said.

City staff have met with the developer and his architectural consultant, and have determined “there is no practical way to minimize obstruction of private views from the hotel.”

Reached by phone Tuesday night, Madden said he was thrilled to get approval for the project and predicted construction could begin in the next 30 days. He said interest among prospective buyers is very high.

“I’ve had calls from as far away as Yellowknife and Fort McMurray from people wanting to buy condos overlooking the harbour,” he said.

He said the building will cover only a fraction of the two-acre site. He also has plans to build a hotel, and perhaps more condominiums. “It’s going to be one fabulous development. It will be great for the east end of St. John’s,” Madden said.

Terry Roberts, The Telegram, Wednesday, May 25, 2005.

http://www.downtownstjohns.com/news/archives/2005_05.html

St John's NL, is a great place, the City I come from is only substantialy smaller, but has higher buildings in our downtown area, but either way, St Johns has some nice Glassy buildings which my city lacks of :(

PS: Would anybody be able to post some pics of ST John International Airport, I have been interested in that airport since I saw an article on it.

Yes, there is a new terminal which is quite nice:
http://www.sculpturebyluben.com/images/001to015/006a.jpg
http://www.pennecon.com/images/crm_airport_big.jpg
http://www.entro.com/portfolio/contentimages/transport_stjohns_1_abcd.jpg
Commercial service started in 1942, and the new terminal was completed in 2002.

21 planes landed in St.John's on Sept 11, 2001, and a total of 75 in the whole province.
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/6507/sjplanessept110oz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
NAV CANADA recovered 239 aircraft destined for the U.S. and Canada, and all landed safely in Canada without incident. Of these, 38 went to Gander, 1 to Deer Lake, 21 to St. John's, 8 to Stephenville, 7 to Goose Bay, 47 to Halifax, 10 to Moncton, 10 to Mirabel, 7 to Dorval, 14 to Toronto, 4 to Hamilton, 15 to Winnipeg, 6 to Edmonton, 13 to Calgary, 1 to Yellowknife, 3 to Whitehorse and 34 to Vancouver. Gander received 6,600 diverted passengers; Vancouver received about 8,500. The last aircraft to land was from the Pacific. By about 6:00 PM EDT, all planes had landed.
http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.asp?Language=en&Content=ContentDefinitionFiles%5CNewsroom%5CBackgrounders%5C911crisis.xml

wow that airport looks very nice!

Far Out that Terminal is good, Thanks for the pictures. How many Passenger a year does St John's International handle, That I article I read about it said it only handled about 950'000 in 2003/04, Cause wow, The airport here in Townsville, Australia only handles about 1'186'000 2004/05, and we have a nice airport but its still shit box compared to that. And it under went a major redevelopment recently and all it was was to add aerobridges and a concourse, but its still smaller that that Terminal.

That is a VERY cool airport!

International flights to Heatrow too, wow.

Far Out that Terminal is good, Thanks for the pictures. How many Passenger a year does St John's International handle, That I article I read about it said it only handled about 950'000 in 2003/04, Cause wow, The airport here in Townsville, Australia only handles about 1'186'000 2004/05, and we have a nice airport but its still shit box compared to that. And it under went a major redevelopment recently and all it was was to add aerobridges and a concourse, but its still smaller that that Terminal.
From a recent newspaper article:
"The number of passengers who flew in and out of St. John’s this past year hit the 1,180,000 mark, compared to 1,083,000 passengers in 2004.

'From 1998 to 2005, we’ve experienced almost 60 per cent growth.'"

Its a damn shame that this city hasn't got any taller buildings or taller building proposals, St John's has that potential.

Often cities that have low real estate prices have fewer hi rise condos as it is cheaper to buy a house.
Real estate in St.John and especially out of the Avolon Pennisula is VERY cheap, especially by Australian standards.

^^ That sounds like a damn shame too, but by the looks of things, i still think this is a good city.

I stayed just up the hill from the Delta back in early August, and walked past it a number of times (there's a nice little neighbourhood restaurant right across the street, btw). It's not an attractive building, but at least it's at the bottom of the hill, so it doesn't impact the skyline too terribly.

Me, as a Seattle native but a San Franciscan in spirit, I don't want to see too much highrise development in St John's above the waterfront. I love the view of the downtown area with the colourful row houses marching up the hill and The Rooms as a focal point of the crest. Highrise condo developments on the East side makes sense to sell this view. It is truly beautiful, and would be ruined by Seattle-style glass dominos or the likes of SF's Rincon Hill development. So much of St John's appeal is in its historicity and its relatively unspoiled nature.

Even were the local economy to rebound significantly and drive housing prices up, the city would still be largely dependent on the relatively short tourism season and can't afford to lose too much of its unique character.

^Good observations, St John's is not likely to loose it's character. There are a few places I believe where highrises would be permitted, where they would not interfere with the views or appearance of the downtown, mainly in the West End. Right now there doesn't seem to be any large scale developments proposed, but there are a handfull of low-rise condo and maybe one low-rise office building proposed for downtown, as well as some conversions of historic/older buildings to condos, but I'm not sure if they are approved. In addition the Battery Hotel proposal hasn't been heard from for some time, and if it is built, it would most likely be scaled down. Most residential development is taking place in the suburbs of Mount Pearl and Paradise, and two new commercial "power centres" have been constructed in the last few years on the edges of the city.

Maybe that's when they started building.

One of us is gunna have to change! http://www.hisbuddyicons.com/data/media/34/peter-fancydress.jpg

St. John's Riverhead Wastewater Treatment Facility, completion date 2007
Projected cost $113 million+.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7480/riverheadwastetreatmentcu0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The treatment plant now being built at St. John's Harbour is already nearly $20 million over the $93-million budget set seven years ago. Rising material and labour costs are likely to drive that figure higher.

http://www.stjohns.ca/cityservices/environment/harbour/cleanup.jsp

I've posted this because urban pollution of the oceans has become somewhat controversial.

New condo project (Narrows Condominiums) to be built in St.John's overlooking the harbour and Narrows:

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73616112/medium.jpg

Pictures of the site:
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73616113/medium.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73616114/medium.jpg

This is the typical type of new construction (non-highrise) that is permitted in St.John's within the downtown heritage area. There is also going to be a second phase of the project, perhaps including a hotel or other uses.

Adjacent buildings from the 1850's:
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73616834/medium.jpg

For Vancouver prices like that I expect they'll be pretty fancy. I saw whole storefronts in St John's listed for less than the starting price in that advertisement.

Did construction start as scheduled last Spring?

For Vancouver prices like that I expect they'll be pretty fancy. I saw whole storefronts in St John's listed for less than the starting price in that advertisement.

Did construction start as scheduled last Spring?
The site is cleared but no actual construction has taken place yet, maybe in 2007.
Condos of this type downtown are expensive, and there aren't many sites available with a view like this.
These units list up to about ~$500,000 for ~2000 sq ft. In Vancouver that would probably cost about a million plus.

Yes, these new condos tend to be large and have amenities that the cheap older buildings don't. That is why the price is so different. It's the same in a city such as Vancouver, although the effect might be different because these price differences occur over larger areas.

These condos don't look very attractive. The building has very strange proportions and is cut off from the street by the ramp and garage doors in front.

It's pretty unfortunate how people think that the only buildings that mimic heritage properties make suitable neighbours. Those condos look ugly because they are trying to mimic a style created for a different kind of building (they didn't have condos in the 1850s, or underground parking, or electricity, usually no indoor plumbing, etc) built with different materials (brick, hardwood, and stone).

If you gave a real architect that site and budget without further instruction you probably wouldn't get a mansard roof but you'd get something a whole lot more attractive and much better suited to its surroundings.

What looks a bit out of place to me are those typical "post-Modern" Palladian-style arched windows and dormers between the bays. I suppose modern architects like to say they're creating a "rhythm" by mixing the elements in such a manner, but to me it just looks busy. Maybe it will look better when fully realised, and I hope you'll have some pics to post when they finally start putting it up!

The big expanses of glass are always going to separate the modern buildings from the heritage ones they're "emulating", but this one seems a bit of a mess. Still, it's better than a couple of the boxes you can see on the hillside in the background. Those white multiplexes halfway up looks like mid-70s concrete-and-stucco affairs.

Does the municipal government allow developers to do tear-downs of some of these 30-40-year old buildings?

At any rate, if I had a spare half mil I wouldn't mind one of the units with the waterfront decks. I hope the Strata will allow people to barbecue on them.

Yes, these new condos tend to be large and have amenities that the cheap older buildings don't. That is why the price is so different. It's the same in a city such as Vancouver, although the effect might be different because these price differences occur over larger areas.

These condos don't look very attractive. The building has very strange proportions and is cut off from the street by the ramp and garage doors in front.

It's pretty unfortunate how people think that the only buildings that mimic heritage properties make suitable neighbours. Those condos look ugly because they are trying to mimic a style created for a different kind of building (they didn't have condos in the 1850s, or underground parking, or electricity, usually no indoor plumbing, etc) built with different materials (brick, hardwood, and stone).

If you gave a real architect that site and budget without further instruction you probably wouldn't get a mansard roof but you'd get something a whole lot more attractive and much better suited to its surroundings.


Exactly. This is what I hate about St. John's. They're so terrified to lose the "heritage" appeal that they have a height limit, and they like new buildings to "blend in" with the old. If an architect wasn't given so many rules to start with, I think they could come up with something really nice. If done right, a new building (One that LOOKS new, using modern lines and design styles) could not only work in this city, but also make the older structures more powerful, by creating a contrast between old and new. It doesn't necessarily have to be on the other end of the spectrum (ie ultra-modern), but I'm sick of living in a static city. IMO, cities are supposed to progress and have new and old architecture interspersed, and St. John's refuses to do this.

It's a nice spot for condos, and the view will be great, but I'm not a fan of the design.

What looks a bit out of place to me are those typical "post-Modern" Palladian-style arched windows and dormers between the bays. I suppose modern architects like to say they're creating a "rhythm" by mixing the elements in such a manner, but to me it just looks busy. Maybe it will look better when fully realised, and I hope you'll have some pics to post when they finally start putting it up!

The big expanses of glass are always going to separate the modern buildings from the heritage ones they're "emulating", but this one seems a bit of a mess. Still, it's better than a couple of the boxes you can see on the hillside in the background. Those white multiplexes halfway up looks like mid-70s concrete-and-stucco affairs. Does the municipal government allow developers to do tear-downs of some of these 30-40-year old buildings?

At any rate, if I had a spare half mil I wouldn't mind one of the units with the waterfront decks. I hope the Strata will allow people to barbecue on them.

^Here is another rendering I found, with what appear to be some design changes; I think it looks more authentic. However, the first one I posted is a pic I took of the billboard at the site; this one is from the real estate ads. Also, the white structure on the hill is the Battery Hotel, which may or may not be replaced in the future.

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5043/narrowscondorender1wy9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
As I was recently in St.John's over Christmas, I noticed more new infill, in the areas adjacent to as well as downtown, and a little beyond. Mostly some slightly innovative condo/townhouse projects, with a variety of interpretations of old architecture. The good thing is to see some infill development on previously unused land. Most of these work well, but the places where it works the least are where the rows of houses are too long and repetitive. I will try and post some pics a bit later. As for tearing down 30-40 year old buildings, there is no aesthetic toward conserving the modern. I noticed where a 5 story 60's medical building was torn down and replaced by a pseudo heritage style 3 story hotel surrounded by parking lots (Lemarchant Road).

As a footnote, I should mention that meandering through the old city is still a magical experience; nothing is to be found like it in Western Canada. Perhaps St.John's is still the envy of any Halifax NIMBY.

^Here is another rendering I found, with what appear to be some design changes; I think it looks more authentic. However, the first one I posted is a pic I took of the billboard at the site; this one is from the real estate ads.

^^ Looks like some committee got hold of that design and futzed it up for marketing purposes.

The drawing from the ad has a much smaller footprint, and it's missing the rear balconies, so I'll hazard a guess that the development corp higher-ups wanted more bang for their buck for the size of the lot.

Sort of reminds me of that monstrosity in San Francisco that we called the "Jukebox Marriott" that ended up being almost twice as dense a building than the plans originally approved by the city. From what I understand it has become an accepted part of the city skyline, but at the time it was constructed more than one architecture critic called foul.

^The most noticable differences are the absence of the Palladian windows, the access to the parking; and perhaps that the rear section appears to be missing, or hidden in this view.

Edit: Another pic which shows the site in a different context. The site is the dark area to the right of the white building. As you can see, a taller building would not be out of scale, but would impede the views from the hotel and office buildings behind it.
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73570679/medium.jpg

As for tearing down 30-40 year old buildings, there is no aesthetic toward conserving the modern. I noticed where a 5 story 60's medical building was torn down and replaced by a barely passable pseudo heritage style 3 story hotel surrounded by parking lots (Lemarchant Road).

Yeah, I stayed in that hotel back in August—it's essentially a cheap cookie-cutter chain hotel design, and even the obnoxious parking lots were insufficient. Not the best use of the lot, and I didn't see it fitting in too well in the neighbourhood. It really belonged a bit further down the road in that area near the shopping malls.

Hotel on Lemarchant Road, Extended Stay.

:)

Yup. That's the one. Paper-thin walls, too. Not great when the place is full of sailors getting ready to ship out.

The Rooms is also considered a new project, opened in 2005, and the space that impressed me the most:

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73636649/medium.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73636651/medium.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73636653/medium.jpg

Exterior view of The Rooms from across the harbour:
http://upload.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73637013/medium.jpg

I like The Rooms, too—particularly for the way that it just seems to fit on the skyline and within the neighbourhood. It would be nice to see more innovative buildings like that go up in St John's.

Nice pix, btw! It looks even better at twilight (which was what, about 3pm last month?) than during the day.

Interior views were around 5 PM, exterior in the afternoon.

Also new - Pics of the Terminal, which was completed in 2004:
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73637658/medium.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73637659/medium.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73192597/medium.jpg

Those ascending waves in the terminal ceiling bring to mind a small airport in Oregon that was built about 20 years ago. It had a somewhat similar treatment of the roofline, but it was nowhere near as nice as what you've posted. I'm looking forward to seeing it, as next time I go to St John's I'm definitely flying.

Nice pix!

That airport looks like one of the nicest in Canada!

Also in St.John's, the old Memorial Stadium is being converted into a large Dominion (Loblaws) Supermarket complex. That's a far better use than if it were to be demolished. The Memorial Stadium was a 4,000-seat multi-purpose arena, opened in 1954, and is located near Quidi Vidi Lake about a half mile North of downtown. It was replaced by the Mile One Stadium in 2001.

My pics of the project (sorry for the bad quality):

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73742337/medium.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73742338/medium.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73742339/medium.jpg

This is a rendering of the finished project:
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9519/memorialstadiumstjohnsof5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Hey JoeyV, when were you in St. John's?

Those pictures are fairly recent..

Now that you've got such a lovely airport, any plans to fix up the ferry terminals at Argentia and Port-aux-Basques? They could definitely use it.

Hey JoeyV, when were you in St. John's?

Those pictures are fairly recent..
December & January (Christmas)
I've added some new pics & still working on it; (link in signature below) check Metro Area, and last 5 pages of SJ Gallery.

^ I don't know about the terminals, but I'm sure they need fixing up.
I haven't used the ferry in years. :)

Other news of interest -

1. The fight to keep a hotel from being built on the waterfront in Quidi Vidi Village.
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2776/quidividiproposal2007crbn5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=1097&sc=8
2. St.John's mayor Andy Wells wants amalgamation with Mount Pearl to happen (That would increase the city population by 25% to about 125,000.)

3. A proposal for a 10 storey residential building at Tiffany Lane with 450-500 adult living units has been recommended for approval by council. That location is about 1 mile North of downtown.

Now that you've got such a lovely airport, any plans to fix up the ferry terminals at Argentia and Port-aux-Basques? They could definitely use it.

North Sydney needs it a lot more then Port Aux Basques does...but then again that entire town is due for a facelift.

Plus isn't that federal government juridiction anyways?

North Sydney needs it a lot more then Port Aux Basques does...but then again that entire town is due for a facelift.

Plus isn't that federal government juridiction anyways?

One of the advantages that North Syndney and Port-aux-Basques have over Argentia is that there is surrounding town within a few minutes' walking distance to help alleviate the lack of services at the terminal. There's nothing like that at Argentia, and the terminal is pretty miserable. I can say the same of the ferry terminal in Pictou, NS—but one isn't as inclined to be spending hours there waiting for a boat as one is for the big ferries between NS and NL.

I've no idea what jurisdiction the NS-NL ferries come under, but certainly when it comes to development around the terminals the provincial government can "put in their oar", so to speak. I'm sure it wouldn't be economically sustainable, but had there been a single alternative (aside from sitting in my car) to waiting for the boat at the Argentia terminal I would have gladly have dropped some dollars there.

December & January (Christmas)
The fight to keep a hotel from being built on the waterfront in Quidi Vidi Village.
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2776/quidividiproposal2007crbn5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=1097&sc=8


It was just announced today that the project has been shelved.

It was just announced today that the project has been shelved.
This time I agree with that because there is so little accessible waterfront actually in the city, that I think it should all be kept as public space. They could build something like this a little farther back, and still have a great view. The building design is OK, but looks generic enough to be a 3 storey slice of a Vancouver condo.

This time I agree with that because there is so little accessible waterfront actually in the city, that I think it should all be kept as public space. They could build something like this a little farther back, and still have a great view. The building design is OK, but looks generic enough to be a 3 storey slice of a Vancouver condo.

I agree with your points, and also, I don't know if the road infrastructure could handle the increased traffic the hotel might bring. It's such a tiny space, to put a hotel there could only cause congestion, by car and by foot. People staying in the hotel, along with people wanting to see what it's all about, would take away from the sleepiness and coziness that makes it such an appealing neighbourhood in the first place.

While I'm all in favour of new projects in St. John's, this one definitely wasn't a great idea.

For anyone who is interested, I noticed that Google Maps has updated their satellite imagery for St.John's - Mount Pearl (but not Paradise & Conception Bay S.), with detail at zoom levels as good as other Canadian cities. The imagery appears to be current.
Central hill area downtown:
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/1001/downtownstjohnscropit9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Basilica & Rooms detail:
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4844/basilicacrop1cd4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

That is one truley great airport.

In terms of tall buildings downtown................be careful what you ask for you might turn into Vancouver. Downtown Vancouver has greatly improved its downtown population but all by high rise condos. It makes the place look very sterile with little character.

Tourism is a growing sector for NFLD and people go to St.John's to partake in the culture and unique downtown and you don't want to ruin that by glass towers. Infills and townhomes are best for a unique pedestrian downtown like St.John's.

Of all Canadian cities I have never visited it is St.John's that I dream of the most.

That's true ssiguy2, there seems to be something of a 'loft' boom in downtown St. John's, the area has been attracting more young professionals as of late which is making the future of the downtown core quite promising.

I for one cannot understand why residents in Quidi Vidi Village are so opposed to it becoming a more tourist-friendly community, it is undoubtedly one of the most scenic settings in St. John's and such development could really benefit the local economy.

In terms of tall buildings downtown................be careful what you ask for you might turn into Vancouver. Downtown Vancouver has greatly improved its downtown population but all by high rise condos. It makes the place look very sterile with little character.

Tourism is a growing sector for NFLD and people go to St.John's to partake in the culture and unique downtown and you don't want to ruin that by glass towers. Infills and townhomes are best for a unique pedestrian downtown like St.John's.

Of all Canadian cities I have never visited it is St.John's that I dream of the most.

^There isn't close to the type of development pressure which Vancouver has, but downtown has been developing in other ways. Height restrictions and heritage guidelines will maintain the city's look, but at the same time may have stifled downtown office development. The profusion of vinyl siding in heritage residential areas (the city was pressured to relax the bylaws) has been of greater concern than the threat of tall buildings. There is townhouse infill and conversion to condo/loft use like the King George V building right on the waterfront, and condo conversion of many institutional structures, but what is more noticeable is the restoration of old row house properties. Almost any street in the downtown and surrounding heritage area has historic/quaint architecture with intact streetscapes, and many new or restored structures would appear to the visitor as original buildings. The problem with heritage restrictions is a resulting lack of creative and diverse design. The city doesn't as yet have any modern glass condos like Vancouver, or even like Halifax, and if any were to be built under current regulations, they couldn't be more than 10 stories, or be built downtown. Outside the downtown area, most residential infill land that becomes available is used for traditional suburban or suburban small lot developments.

In the news recently has been a boundary dispute over an area of the city adjacent to Mount Pearl, on which 400 new homes will be developed. Through this area a new 9 km. bifurcation road will connect the TCH in the northwest area of the city southwards to the harbour freeway (Pitts Memorial Drive). Mount Pearl is presently landlocked and has nowhere to expand, and wanted the new highway to become it's eastern boundary. St.John's is also pushing for amalgamation with Mount Pearl and the suburban sections of Paradise, which would boost the city's population ~35% to around +135,000.

Here's some examples of new infill, not downtown, but located North at the edge of the heritage area.

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/75090747/medium.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/75090748/medium.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/75090749/medium.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/75090750/medium.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/75090751/medium.jpg

This is downtown infill built about 5 years ago; the other side is more modern looking, but the catch is that this is pseudo Georgian heritage, and not even in the traditional style. The original building was destroyed by fire - there are very few empty sites in this area.
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/75090753/medium.jpg
The other side of this development is the long roofline at top right. (On the left is the Fortis building.)
http://www.pbase.com/image/75092419/medium.jpg
And here is an example of restored downtown houses:
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73889841/medium.jpg

Oooh, the building in that last pic wouldn't look out of place in San Francisco or Plateau Mont-Royal.

(…I hope you understand that, from my perspective, that is high praise indeed; sorry if that offends your own particular sensibilities!) :)

Oooh, the building in that last pic wouldn't look out of place in San Francisco or Plateau Mont-Royal.

(…I hope you understand that, from my perspective, that is high praise indeed; sorry if that offends your own particular sensibilities!) :)
I agree, St.John's is a bit like San Francisco because of the hills and houses.

I agree, St.John's is a bit like San Francisco because of the hills and houses.

Yeah, except the houses in St John's don't cost $3m apiece, and you can leave your bicycle and patio furniture out front at night and they'll be there the next day! (You can't even do that in Vancouver)

Walking up the hill to that posterboard palace I was staying in last Summer (the one you so ably identified) did bring to mind slogging home at night from the bus stop in San Francisco in years past . . .

. . . except in St John's it seems you never get more than a few blocks before someone stops to ask you a question and you don't get away for another 20 minutes or so.

I've got a question for you, Joev—and as usual please excuse my ignorance on the matter.

The area on the across the harbour (toward Cape Spear)—how much of that is available for development? Is that a place where—should the demand arise—a few modern buildings might take advantage of the beautiful view of the downtown across the water without disrupting the look and architectural continuity of the downtown area itself?

^Much of that area is too steep or too high an elevation for development. The city has a 190 m (623 ft) contour limit for development due to water pressure, and the highest points there are around 750 ft. Much of it is owned by oil companies like Irving or Imperial, also DND. It's home to oil storage tanks (some of which may soon be removed) and communication towers, etc. Only the narrow strip along the harbour is developed for the port, except for a community of a few hundred (Shea Heights) at the top, which started as a poor area outside the city limits, but has nice views.

I've never heard much discussion about developing that area as it might require building more roads etc. up the slopes, however, connections could conceivably be made to the harbour freeway which cuts across it. The existing road from downtown west is steep with switchbacks, and the only other route leads south for several miles through Petty Harbour. The slopes are very steep near the bottom but have areas which are more level near the top. I think some development is possible, and it could be a nice place to live with panoramic views, but it would change the look of the city (the hills look nice in the summer). I would estimate that about 50% (of the area outlined below) about 6 km long, which overlooks the city could be developed.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6340/sateliteimagestjohns1btl2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
This shows the steepness at the bottom of the hills:
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/36528878/medium.jpg
From the city - it looks much better in summer:
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/75125084/original.jpg
Aerial view (top right) from a few years ago - most of downtown is hidden behind the city's hills:
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8689/stjohnsaerial1bup2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
This is what it looks like from the ocean side; it's difficult to develop these coastal areas:
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9345/viewfromocean1bbs8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Updated data for St. John's, 2006 census:
St. John's CMA (census metropolitan area) population 2006 census - 181,113, up from 172,918 (2001)
CMA area: 804 sq km
Population Density per sq km: 225.1
St.John's City area - 446 sq km
City population density: 225.6

2006 Census Populations -
Largest Municipalities in the CMA:

St. John's City - 100,646
Mount Pearl City - 24,671
Conception Bay South - 21,966
Paradise - 12,584
Portugal Cove-St. Philip's - 6,575
Torbay - 6,281

St. John's CMA Urban Area population: 151,322
Urban Land Area: 182.62
Urban population Density: 828.6 per sq km.

A recent government news release concerning the Pleasantville lands future development:
CLC Begins Planning Process for Pleasantville Lands

St. John’s, Newfoundland, March 9, 2007 – Canada Lands Company (CLC) today announced
that, in close collaboration with the City of St. John’s, it is about to begin a master planning process
for its Pleasantville property in the east end of the city. The 80-acre (32-hectare) site is located in
close proximity to the downtown core and features views of the Bally Haly Golf Course to the north
and Quidi Vidi Lake to the south.
CLC has been meeting over the past several months with City of St. John’s officials to review the
planning process for the site. As part of these preparations, CLC has hired Tract Consulting of St.
John’s to assist with creating a vision and master development plan for the site.
“In keeping with CLC’s business philosophy, the planning process will include extensive public
consultations, giving the community the opportunity to contribute to the development of the vision
for this site”, said Ron Pachal, CLC General Manager, Real Estate, Atlantic. City of St. John’s
officials will continue to assist CLC with development plan preparations and will facilitate the
redevelopment process. “The City of St. John’s looks forward to continuing its good working
relationship with CLC in order to create a positive and lasting landmark development for city
residents”, added Mayor Andy Wells.
Information on the master plan development process and related public events will be announced
shortly.

^I'm excited to see how this turns out!

New Pleasentville military facility:

(The Telegram) "The military presence in St. John’s will undergo a major revitalization in the coming years following a significant — but not unexpected — announcement today by Defence Minister Gordon O’Connor.

The federal government will invest roughly $100 million to construct a sprawling new multi-purpose facility at Pleasantville.

The facility is expected to be completed by 2013 and will replace an assortment of aging military facilities spread over a wide area in Pleasantville.

It will serve as the new home of Canadian Forces Station St. John’s.

The announcement is one of the most significant federal infrastructure investments in the city in some time, and is part of a strategy to consolidate Canadian Forces operations into one facility.

It will not change the role of the roughly 700 Canadian Forces members and National Defence employees currently working at CFS St. John’s, O’Connor said during a news conference at Building 308.

The project will employ up to 100 people during the three-year construction phase, said federal Fisheries Minister Loyola Hearn (St. John’s South-Mount Pearl)."

(^from: http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=20888&sc=79

"The commander of Canadian Forces Station St. John's, Darren Garnier, suggested it might resemble the RCMP B Division headquarters building in nearby White Hills." (from the story that ran in the paper)
This is the best picture I could find of the White Hills building:http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/nl/detachments/images/hq_building.jpg

It's really quite ugly, but hopefully the new base won't look much like it...

whats with the color thing? is this a local idea for history or something .

..

whats with the color thing? is this a local idea for history or something .

Bright & dark colours are traditional, but seem to be used more now than ever.
This is not as unique to St.John's as you might think. In Vancouver bright colours are also used on wooden houses from the early part of the century.

St. John's International Airport will be undergoing more improvements and renovations in addition to those made in 2002. Traffic volumes have been higher than forcasted.

Things are taking off at St. John’s International Airport, and not just planes.

Due to the unexpectedly high volume of passengers in recent years, the airport is already gearing up for another round of renovations.

In 2006, the airport hit the 1.25-million passenger mark — 10 years ahead of its own forecasts.

As a result, the airport authority plans to spend $19.5 million this year on expansions, improvements and extensions.

The airport has already outgrown the $50-million overhaul it had in 2002.

This year’s projects include:

• $5 million to rehabilitate secondary runway 16/34;

• $3 million to expand the terminal;

• $1 million for an extra passenger-loading bridge;

• an unspecified amount for four covered walkways to planes

There are other improvements planned as well.

Full story:
http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=29211&sc=79

Some news for St. john's - the old Capitol Theatre, downtown St.john's will be refurbished. The developer plans to put "$3 million into refurbishing the former 500-seat venue, located at Duckworth Street and Henry Street".

The lower part of the multileveled building, which fronts on both Henry & Duckworth, has been home to CBC radio for the last 54 years, while the upper section was the theatre.

The developer "intends to turn the theatre into a live performance space that fills the void between the 160-seat LSPU Hall and 1,100-seat St. John's Arts and Culture Centre. Once open, the venue will be available for theatre, concerts, film screenings and lectures."

"While the theatre will be his main focus, Madden plans to lease the remaining space in the building to artists and arts groups."

http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=34810&sc=82

Some views of the Capitol Theatre Building, which is set to undergo restoration:
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/80294806/medium.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/80294807/medium.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/80294808/medium.jpg
The theatre was built in the 1930's or 40's, and was last used as a theatre in the 1970's.

Here is an interesting tidbit:
Capital City Leads Households in Renovations
June 14, 2007

St. John's leads Canadian cities in household renovations. CMHC says 37 percent of households spent $1,000 or more on renovations in 2006; Halifax was next at 36 per cent; in Vancouver, the figure was 30 percent. The main reason given by households for renovating in 2006 was to update, add value or to prepare to sell the residence. Thirty per cent stated their home needed repairs. The top three renovations completed last year were: remodelling of rooms , painting or wallpapering, and hard surface flooring and wall-to-wall carpeting. 46 percent of the households in St.John's intend to spend $1000 or more on renovations this year.
http://www.vocm.com/news-info.asp?id=21397

Some pictures of the Stadium to Dominion supermarket conversion project, scheduled to be open later this year.
The completed building is about 110,000 sq. ft. in area.

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/82049533/medium.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/82049535/medium.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/82049531/medium.jpg

There aren't many condo buildings going up in St.John's this year - but there is this one, which has some nice views, called McKee's Grove in the central area of the city - the building is larger than it looks due to the angle of the photo:
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/82794447/medium.jpg
The site was rezoned after a land use assesment to zoning permitting 6 stories (considered here to be high density). However, this 4 storey design is of the type which is deemed suitable in this heritage area. One of the city's oldest buildings is nearby. Being next to a cemetary ensures that it will be a mostly quiet neighbourhood.

I believe there is also a 6 storey seniors building beginning construction in the east end. Recent downtown developments have consisted almost entirely of townhouse and infill type projects, conversions of existing buildings, and some other proposed projects have not yet materialized. Meanwhile, St.John's is not really density oriented, and there are plenty of single family home subdivisions underway both inside and outside the city.

Thanks Joey.
Where in St. John's is that? I think I know where it may be, but I haven't physically seen it yet.

Thanks Joey.
Where in St. John's is that? I think I know where it may be, but I haven't physically seen it yet.
That is just off Newtown Road, between the cemetary and Brother Rice School.

Oh, ok. I see that development behind Brother Rice all the time, but I've never driven up to see it.

This is old news now, but I wonder what will happen to the Grace Hospital site?

Transportation and Works
November 17, 2006
Government Plans to Demolish Former Grace Hospital Building

The Honourable John Hickey, Minister of Transportation and Works, announced today that government will issue a tender next week for the demolition of the remaining hospital building at the former Grace Hospital site LeMarchant Road, St. John’s. If that building, constructed in the 1960s, is demolished, only the nurses’ residence would remain on the site.

The decision to issue a tender for the building’s demolition was made following an unsuccessful call for Expressions of Interest to sell the facility issued in July. Government has determined that none of the responses are acceptable. However, Minister Hickey says a window of opportunity remains for those respondents.

In 2005, Transportation and Works contracted for the environmental remediation and demolition of a portion of the structures on site. As a result, the houses at 205 Pleasant Street and 203 Pleasant Street, the smoke stack, the 1920s section and the majority of the 1950s section of the former Grace Hospital were demolished.

Previous Requests for Expressions of Interests were issued in 2000 and 2002.

BACKGROUNDER

The first Grace Hospital was constructed in 1922 and was known as the Grace Maternity Hospital. Major extensions were added in 1955 and 1965 and a nurses’ residence was added in 1964. The facility is currently known as the Grace General Hospital and is owned by the Department of Health and Community Services (HCS) and was operated by the Health Care Corporation of St. John’s. Upon the facility being vacated, responsibility for the facility was turned over to the Department of Transportation and Works.

Photos I took in 2006:
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/73850876/medium.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/74112756/medium.jpg
And from 2004:
http://jjd.pbase.com/joecanada/image/36528748/medium.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/74113384/medium.jpg
It seems to me that it is a waste to demolish such a substantial structure, without any planned use for the site.

Don't let them do what they did in Saint John, NB...the old general hospital was replaced with a new building and the old one was left so long it had to be torn down. It was a major feature on the skyline; the architecture much better than any building in the area. If it had been replaced with something at least as nice, it would have been fine.

Instead, it was replaced with a single storey warehouse box housing government offices and a Danka office with no design features at all.

^ This hospital was already replaced in a sense when the Health Sciences Centre (General) was opened in the 1970's, but it was not closed until around 2000. Another hospital, the old Janeway Childrens is also lying derelict; it was built as part of the American base (Pleasantville) in the 1940's, but was replaced recently by a large addition to the Health Sciences Complex. Both the Grace and the Janeway are scheduled or planned to be torn down. I think the site preparations for demolition of the Grace are already underway.

The Health Sciences Complex is in the foreground, with the new Janeway addition (light gray) to the left:
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/81166357/medium.jpg
The Janeway was opened in 2001:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4196/janewaycentrexb1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

There is a proposal to redevelop the old Newfoundland telephone building, located in downtown St.John's. The structure, which is 7 stories on the north side, and higher on the south, has been lying in a state of neglect for a few years. Since new construction is subject to height limits usually not more than four or six stories, conversion of such existing buildings is a good alternative to infuse new life and provide accomodation in the downtown. The architect, Mr Hearn is one of Nfld's more innovative designers, having produced some quality projects in the city, including the airrport terminal. St.John's needs more like this.

Existing building:
http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/61207305/medium.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/80540260/medium.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/80541248/medium.jpg

Renderings of what the new project might look like:
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/449/345duck03js2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4989/p345duck04ns4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://www.jharchitect.ca/


Old phone building going upscale
October 29, 2007

The old Newfoundland Telephone building in downtown St. John's is destined for a $3.5-million makeover into high-end hotel suites. Southwest Properties Ltd. - the Halifax-based owners of the remodelled Atlantic Place - has submitted an application to redevelop the building on Duckworth Street. Once refurbished, it would house 20 hotel suites, complete with kitchenettes. The basement floor along McBride's Hill is likely to become retail space. Southwest's plan calls for tearing down the seven-storey west wing and expanding the five-storey east wing. That expansion will consist of two additional storeys and a new section on the west side. Eleven off-street parking spaces will be created on the west side. Overseen by John Hearn, the St. John's architect who designed the St. John's airport terminal, the building's exterior will have a stucco finish and a parapet around the seventh storey. Frank Galgay, ward councillor for the area, plans to vote in favour of the hotel, saying it will help revitalize that section of Duckworth Street.

The project already has the blessing of the city's planning department and the council's planning and housing committee.

It will also continue to be a non-conforming building under the city's regulations - meaning it exceeds the maximum height of four storeys, or 15 metres, permitted under zoning regulations. The city's rules say such buildings may be "repaired, rebuilt, structurally altered or expanded, provided the degree of non-conformity is not increased." The refurbished building won't get any taller. "Viewscapes are not impacted whatsoever by this. In fact, they're slightly improved where they're taking a piece off the west end. But mostly what you'll see more of is ... more buildings," said Sampson.

Excerpt from The Telegram, Monday, October 29, 2007. Article by Moira Baird

http://www.downtownstjohns.com/news/archives/001299.html#more

St.John's will likely see another downtown hotel development on a site near the Delta, on Water Street West.

Steele Hotels Planning New Downtown Development
November 9, 2007

Newfoundland-based Steele Hotels has started design work on a 50 to 70 room hotel set for west-end Water Street in St. John's, making it the third mid-sized hotel development announced this year for the downtown. John Steele, president of Steele Hotels, purchased the land several months ago for less than $500,000. Since then, he's had holes drilled in the lot to test its building capacity. He recently hired an architect to begin design work. "We're just getting preliminary drawings and investigating what we can put there. We're looking at sort of a boutique-type hotel - more of a higher-end property."

Steele says the business climate for hotel development in St. John's is good. He credits strong tourism, mining and oil industries as the reason for his planned expansion. Steele's optimism is due to the Hebron oilfield development. He's also hopeful the province will soon develop a new oil refinery and iron ore processing facility. The hotel site is across New Gower Street from the Delta Hotel, which is the province's largest hotel.

Steele hasn't applied to the city for approval. He's finalizing his business plan first. "I want to see the cost of putting something there and whether it works. But we are looking at it."

Last month, Halifax-based Southwest Properties submitted an application to the city to redevelop the former Newfoundland Telephone building on Duckworth Street into a $3.5-million, high-end hotel.

Marriott Hotels has redevelopment plans for the former Woolworth's building on Water Street. It wants to build extended-stay suites, in part to take advantage of an anticipated increase in oil-related travel resulting from the Hebron development.

Steele doesn't think the city's hotel capacity has reached the saturation point yet. "I think there's room to go. The thing is, you adjust your plan to what the market is, but I think the market can still hold up."

By Peter Walsh, The Telegram Friday, November 9

http://www.downtownstjohns.com/index.html

Proposal for an 8 storey condominium development on Water Street East, downtown St.John's.

This proposal seems to make good sense within the context of the site, and not constrained to the usual imitation heritage style. The location is across from the waterfront and has panoramic views of the harbour.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1989/leoslanecondos2dr4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Image from city website.


Land Use Assessment Report – Proposed 8 Storey, 12 Unit Residential Condominium Building

It is a small site with limited alternative potential. It is abutted on one side by Journey’s End, an
8 storey structure and backs into the side of a hill and the foundation structure for Cavendish
Place Condominiums. As opposed to what would be the situation for most other sites in the
downtown, development of an 8 storey structure will have only a small impact on private views,
the image of the downtown as seen from the harbour and other vantage points, and no impact on
public views. Approval in terms of these unique qualities should not be seen as a precedent for
other downtown sites.
The project also makes good urban design sense. It redevelops a difficult derelict property,
utilizes existing municipal infrastructure, and will help strengthen the residential component of
the downtown.

Leo’s Lane Condominium will be visible from many key vantage points in and around the
harbour. Because of its surroundings and the proposed materials and colours, it will not have an
adverse impact on the image and mosaic of the downtown. It will be seen next to an 8 storey
hotel and against a mixed background of hillside and concrete foundations. The proposed muted
colours blend with neighbouring buildings and the surroundings.

There will be no impact on public views. Although the project falls within the view sheds of
several public views that are identified in the Public Views Study, its roof line is well below
buildings on Duckworth Street, and is not in the view plane.

http://www.stjohns.ca/csj/NewsDetails?id=639

EDIT: Feb 19/2008 This proposal was voted down by council after a petition of 300 names was presented protesting the loss of a view from a nearby restaurant.

Old Janeway hospital to be demolished
Last Updated: Friday, December 7, 2007 | 10:51 AM NT
CBC News
The old Janeway children's hospital in the east end of St. John's will be torn down, the Newfoundland and Labrador government said Friday.

Efforts to sell the abandoned hospital complex, in the Pleasantville neighbourhood of St. John's, were not successful, Transportation and Works Minister Dianne Whalen said.

The hospital, which opened in 1966, was closed in 2001 when staff and services relocated to a new Janeway Child Health Centre, built as an annex to the Health Sciences Centre.

The Pleasantville property was put on the market in March, but failed to attract commercial interest.

Real estate brokers Market Morgan Finch "have determined that the best way to sell the former Janeway hospital site is to remove the old building," Whalen said in a statement.

A contract worth $924,129 was awarded to St. John's company Kelloway Construction. The contract includes the cleanup of the old property.

The former Janeway site is near surplus federal lands in Pleasantville, which are currently being prepared for redevelopment.

Whalen said the Janeway demolition and remediation should be finished in a year.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2007/12/07/janeway-demolish.html

The four storey structure was originally built as a residence and hospital for the American Base at Pleasantville (Fort Pepperell) in the 1940's.
Old photo:
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2636/janewayoldmediumlr3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
The structure was added to in later years, this pic shows it in it's original form.
Too bad it couldn't have been converted to condos, with the added selling feature of having a bomb shelter.

Hotel applications flooding in to city hall

ALISHA MORRISSEY
The Telegram

There are at least four contenders in the race to open hotel beds to tourists in the downtown St. John's area, but some are closer to the finish line than others.

Coun. Shannie Duff, chairwoman of the city's planning committee, says it's possible not all the hotels and condominiums for which developers are seeking approval will be built.

"But it's interesting that we're getting this level of interest," she says. "It's a race to the finish. A lot of them want to get in and get their approvals ... I'm sure that there's more than one that will cross the finish line, but they may be the first out of the gate."

The most recent application to come before city hall is a request for permission to build an 84-suite, six-storey hotel on what is now a vacant piece of property at 418 Water St.

Steele Hotels is ahead of the curve when it comes to its application to build on that property as it's already completed a land-use impact assessment - a requirement of the city - for its own information.

Duff says the company wanted to know exactly what was going on under the building, as the site was once part of the original harbour front.

The city determines the terms of the assessment and Duff says there are other details needed before the city or the company can move on the project.

"There were some deficiencies so, basically, I think they can use some of the materials that they already had presented and just fill in the blanks."

Duff says the report will essentially tell the city how the hotel will impact the area, in terms of traffic, views and other details.

"This one looks as if it's already given a lot of thought to many of these things, so I think they will come in very soon with their land-use impact assessment," Duff says.

John Steele couldn't be reached for comment on the development, but in an interview about a month ago, he said the company was interested in building a boutique-style hotel and that there is still plenty of potential in the hotel market in the city.

Steele owns six hotels in the province: the Capital Hotel in St. John's, the Glynmill Inn in Corner Brook and four hotels in Gander.

There are at least three other sites for which developers have asked the city's permission to build either hotels or condominium buildings, Duff says.

Last month, Halifax-based Southwest Properties submitted an application to redevelop the former Newfoundland Telephone building on Duckworth Street into a $3.5-million, hotel and condominium development.

"I think that will be a very good development, because it's been very much of an eyesore for a very long time," Duff says, adding that the company hopes to keep as much original architecture as possible.

Yet another application is pending for the site on the corner of Prescott and Water streets.

Duff says the controversial application was withdrawn more than two years ago and appeared to have stalled.

"I guess it would have been difficult to do anything with it while we were doing all that ... water and sewer work down on Water Street. That was a major tear-up so it's in the very early stages of review and they will also have to do a land-use impact assessment."

As well, the former Woolworth's site on Water Street west is one development that the city has heard plenty about, but hasn't received any official paperwork on.

"I've heard the rumblings, some pretty specific rumblings," Duff says.

Meanwhile, there have been no complaints from existing hotels in the downtown that their business may be negatively affected by the interest in the hotel business in the area.

"They all realize that if you have increased room capacities, you also have increased capacity to have events and conventions and trade shows and they really do put bodies in beds," Duff says. "It is a lot of rooms and I've even heard rumours of more."

Hopefully now that there is a bit of a boom in larger scale building in St. John's, we will start to see a move away from the pseudo-heritage structures to something a bit more appropriate.

That being said, I don't really like either of the renders for the 2 new hotels... In time maybe we'll seem some innovation.

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/80540260/medium.jpg

I always loved the back of the building for some reason. There was a certain charm (I know it's just a loading door and some graffiti, but I always loved walking down that street).

Hopefully now that there is a bit of a boom in larger scale building in St. John's, we will start to see a move away from the pseudo-heritage structures to something a bit more appropriate.

That being said, I don't really like either of the renders for the 2 new hotels... In time maybe we'll seem some innovation.

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/80540260/medium.jpg

I always loved the back of the building for some reason. There was a certain charm (I know it's just a loading door and some graffiti, but I always loved walking down that street).
The building definitely has potential.

The other three hotel proposals are:
1. Steele Hotels - Water Street West (84 suites, 6 fl.)
2. Duckworth and Bell Streets - (Hilton Embassy) Langton Green Development and Halifax-based Pacrim Hospitality Services (175 rooms)
3. corner of Harbour Drive and Water Street - Premiere Executive Suites/Southwest Properties (150 rooms, 5 fl.).

2007 a Banner Year for St. John's Economy

RELEASE DATE: 2008-01-22

Lowest unemployment rate recorded in over 30 years

Gross Domestic Product (GDP) attributed to the St. John's Census Metropolitan Area (CMA) is estimated to have grown by 9.7% in 2007, reaching approximately $9.2 billion (in 2002$).

Advances in oil production continues to be the main economic driver however, many other industries also recorded solid economic performance including: wholesale and retail trade; finance, insurance, real estate and leasing; information, culture and recreation; and public administration.

Employment increased by 1.2% to 94,500 - goods sector employment increased by 15.9% as a result of increased manufacturing and oil and gas employment while service sector employment declined by 1.1%. The CMA labour force was essentially unchanged at 101,500 (-0.1%). The unemployment rate declined by 1.2 percentage points to 6.9%, the lowest unemployment rate recorded in the metro region in over 30 years (the national unemployment rate for 2007 was 6.0%).

Increased consumer confidence and income gains resulted in exceptionally strong housing starts and retail sales growth. Housing starts increased by 16.1% to 1,480 starts in 2007. In the first ten months of 2007, the value of residential building permits increased by 33.8% (to $256.4 million) and the value of non-residential building permits increased by 4.2% (to $84.6 million) over the same period in 2006. Retail sales also exhibited strong growth in 2007- up by an estimated 9.2% over 2006.

The population of the St. John's CMA is estimated to have grown by 0.4% in 2007 and now stands at 184,194.

Outlook for 2008

GDP growth is expected to continue at a more moderate pace in 2008 as gains in oil production are less pronounced. Private sector services such as transportation and warehousing; information, culture and recreation; and finance, insurance, real estate and leasing; and accommodation and food services are also expected to expand. Continued employment gains, strong wage growth and a buoyant housing sector should provide an additional boost to consumer spending.

http://www.stjohns.ca/csj/NewsDetails?id=656

Some more development news for St. John's, regarding planning the Pleasantville redevelopment:

St. John's is destined to get another major housing development - this time courtesy of a federal Crown corporation.

But not until 2013 when the military vacates 32 hectares of land at Pleasantville in the city's east end.

That plan will likely include a mixture of single-family homes, townhouses, apartment units and retail businesses.

"We're looking at density," said McIvor. "Canada Lands believes in creating a place where people can work and play and live all in the same site. We're very interested in that."
http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=102036&sc=82

Actually, it has been noted that the land sale may begin this year, and not 2013 as stated in the article.

Also, Metro St. John's will likely see another big box power center, along with the other three, this time in CBS. These days the shift is away from Malls and towards big box developments. Overall this makes people even more automobile dependant than malls did.

A St. John's businessman is hopeful he'll reach a deal with the Town of Conception Bay South to build a big-box store development.
Derm Dobbin's ND Dobbin Ltd. has been negotiating with the town since last year. The company wants to develop a 90-acre property in Kelligrews, similar to big-box developments on Stavanger Drive in St. John's and off Old Placentia Road in Mount Pearl.
http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=98160&sc=82

Concept rendering of proposal for the new hotel at Duckworth & Bell Streets downtown (Hilton-Embassy). The hotel will be 7 stories on Duckworth, containing between 130 to 175 suites, and is designed to fit in with the scale and architecture of the existing downtown context. The site borders on both old residential and commercial areas, and is in proximity to many historic structures.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8890/hotelbellstcolour1tc6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Image, and more info from city website:
www.city.st-johns.nf.ca/pdfs/duckworthreport.pdf

The building's design is influenced by the nearby Art Deco Capitol building, local commercial architecture, and the domestic scale of its residential neighbours. Given the heritage and height zoning requirments (generally limited to 4 stories), I think this proposal is a valuable and appropriate addition to the downtown area and its economy.

Rendering of the proposed Steele Hotels project on Water St West:

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2278/hotelwaterstreet2bg8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The design is reminiscent of turn of the century Second Empire architecture prevalent in downtown St. John's and will work better here than a strictly modern design would. It seems to meet all the requirements within the heritage area urban context, and is a good example of what will work in the downtown area. This building will have a main roof height of 23 m on Water Street, mech roof height 28 m, and is 6 fl on Water St.

Image from city website (http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:at-XZ1IINAkJ:www.city.st-johns.nf.ca/csj/PubDetails%3Fid%3D657+steele+hotels+st+johns+pdf&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=ca)

that is actually a very nice looking building . to bad it wasnt in color .

Here's another nice looking development. This is a 6 fl seniors complex just east of the Holiday Inn. Construction started last summer.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1739/kennyspondbannerew9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://www.kennyspondresidence.com/

I should add that this is the height limit for most of the new parts of the city.

Tiffany Village Inc. - 50 Tiffany Court
Seniors residential & assisted living condominium units, 168 units, 8 storeys, 29 m
The building footprint is L shaped, and will include 2 levels below, containing parking and services.
It is part of a phased development which will contain around 500 units total.

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7449/tiffanycourt2wo3.jpg

From the land use assesment:

Exact Location and Height -
The building is located on property next to the former Salvation Army Training Facility off Tiffany Lane. The Site Context Plan prepared by Tract Consulting Inc. shows the general location of the site and surrounding uses. The Site Plan prepared by Kavanagh & Associates Ltd. shows the exact location. The height of the building is eight storeys with two basement/parking levels. Height above grade will vary because of the sloping ground. At the building main entrance, the height will be 26.6m, including the parapet. A mechanical penthouse in the middle of the building will be 2.4m in height. The Building Elevations prepared by PHB Group Inc. show the height of the building in more detail.

"The final design of the building is in progress. While the exact configuration is still to be
determined, exterior materials will include the following:
• Stone Masonry Veneer - Natural Colours
• Brick Veneer - Colours, Red Range
• Acrylic Plaster - Colours, Earth Tones, complimentary with the brick
• Metal Railings Factory Painted Aluminium
• Windows Factory Painted Aluminium"

http://www.stjohns.ca/csj/Tiffany_Vi...ort15Feb07.pdf

The site is located in the East end older suburbs, north of Elizabeth Avenue.

A new condo development will be built in close proximity to the harbourfront on Water Street East. Being certain to not block any views, the development will be a series of six buildings that are five stories each, including 1st level parking. It is within the heritage area so the design is certain to be of a historic style.

City Gives Green Light To East End Condos
May 13, 2008

A major residential development for downtown St.John's has been given the green light. Council has given the okay to six residential condominium buildings to be located on the former Standard Manufacturing site on Water Street East. Each building will have eight units for the total of 48 and there will be one level of indoor parking. Councilor Frank Galgay says the proposed development is a good one for the city. Galgay says other people's views will not be impacted and both parking and traffic do not seem to be an issue. Councilor Art Puddister suggested that any buyers of the new condominiums be informed of the noise levels from the harbour. Puddister says no by-laws will be changed to reduce the noise.

http://www.vocm.com/news-info.asp?id=28665

Noise cited as harbourside condo gets another OK
Last Updated: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 | 9:30 AM NT
CBC News

A controversial condominium development moved one step closer to reality during a St. John's city council meeting Monday night, although councillors expressed concern about whether buyers will like the noise from the harbour.

A developer wants to erect a 48-unit complex on the old Standard Manufacturing site, on the east end of Water Street and near the harbourfront.

Residents of the area, including some in the nearby Battery neighbourhood, have organized a petition against the plan, which they say will bring too much traffic to the narrow streets in the area and could spoil harbour views.

However, there seems to be little support for the petition on council. At Monday evening's meeting, councillors voted to permit extra residential units on the first floor of the buildings, which have already been approved.

Rest of Article HERE (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2008/05/13/harbour-condo.html)

Joey, thanks for keeping us abreast of what is going up in your neck of the woods!! :cheers:

A report on Business article notes that the St. John's office vacancy rate is very tight, and is the lowest of cities surveyed in the country:

"Energized ... maybe too energized
As Newfoundland rides resources wave, St. John's grapples with one of the tightest office markets in country"

LORI MAYNE

Special to The Globe and Mail

June 24, 2008

At national real estate conferences, Bill Balsom would smile when he saw the view of Canada on an overhead screen: Newfoundland and Labrador often wasn't even on the map.

"They'd put up this beautiful colour PowerPoint presentation and the country would stop at Halifax," he says.

That view is changing. "Finally, we are now on the radar," says Mr. Balsom, a partner in St. John's real estate consulting and appraisal firm ARA Kirkland Balsom and Associates.

A resurgent provincial economy, fuelled largely by the strong resources sector, is giving the province a shot in the arm. But it's perhaps one that the provincial capital wasn't quite prepared for - rising demand for office space and a scarcity of new buildings have left the downtown St. John's office market the tightest that some have seen in decades


However, new buildings haven't been coming on stream because rents haven't increased enough to justify costs, observers say. Neil Hardy, executive vice-president for the Atlantic region of real estate consulting company Altus Group Ltd., says rents at the seven main multioccupancy towers downtown now range from $14 to $16.50 a square foot - about 10 per cent higher than two years ago.

Downtown rents would have to reach about $25 to justify new construction, Mr. Hardy says. "I don't know if we are at that stage where a tenant would pay that money."

He believes more new space will go to St. John's suburbs where development costs would be cheaper. But he agrees some new construction will likely happen in the city itself within a year.


Office market snapshot

Vacancy rates in Class A buildings in central markets.

2nd quarter 2nd quarter
2008 2007
Vancouver 2.3% 2.1%
Edmonton 2.1% n/a
Calgary 2.3% 0.6%
Winnipeg 6.3% 6.3%
Toronto 3.9% 5.2%
Ottawa 2.9% 3.8%
Montreal 4.7% 7.0%
Fredericton 0.4% 3.0%
Saint John 5.4% 12.7%
Moncton 9.0% 10.6%
Halifax 2.2% 5.7%
St. John's 0.1% 1.1%
National 3.4% 4.3%

SOURCE: CUSHMAN & WAKEFIELD LePAGE

Complete Article here:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080624.PRSTJOHNS24/TPStory/Business

Sounds like SJ is a healthy market at the moment! Maybe we'll see some construction activity...

The most recent multi-occupancy office buildings (downtown) were built around 1987. There is mention in the article that a new ~80,000 sq ft building is planned, but the location was not specified as downtown or suburban.

then they are due for more!!!

There is a proposal for a new 11 storey hotel at a prominent downtown intersection on the waterfront. The Fortis and TD buildings (12 & 11 stories) are located on the same corner. This is within the heritage area (15M), so it will be a controversial proposal for that location.

Heritage preservation or new development
Coun. Shannie Duff says hotel proposal needs serious consideration

The city has received an application from Southwest Properties - which recently finished the redevelopment of Atlantic Place - to construct an 11-storey, four-star hotel at the corner of Water and Prescott streets, featuring 150 suites, a restaurant, meeting rooms, health centre with a swimming pool and underground parking for 100 vehicles.

Rest of Article:
http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=153665&sc=82

wonder what it will look like?

wonder what it will look like?
No idea, there haven't been any plans released publicly. It will probably be a compromise in height considering the heritage limitations. Whatever it is I hope it looks good because of the location.

There was a render in the Telegram the other day.

Here's the scan:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3171/2684892683_4e39f76f8f.jpg


Click for bigger image (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3171/2684892683_8456489715_o.jpg)

Thanks Nuks for the render. It looks like it is designed to fit in as "quietly" as possible. I don't think it is too tall for the site, and looks to be around 38 m or so. If they stick to that colour scheme (brick?) and have a consistant design it should look good. Was there any other info in the paper about it?

Some new light has been shed on the eleven storey hotel proposal at Water and Prescott. According to the following article no one on council wants it built in the proposed form, and will require that it be scaled down to six stories.


So far, none of the councilors are very keen on the 11 storey proposal.

"It's not acceptable at all," said Galgay.

They've asked Southwest Properties to scale things down a bit. Ken O'Brien says Southwest has submitted a tamer proposal for a hotel which would be six storeys high-and it will emphasize, financially, they think this is the smallest they can go. Both proposals are being assessed for bonus area suitability.

Contrasted with an eleven storey building, that six storey building will no doubt be far more appealing to some.

After all, as Galgay points out, "something has got to go there."

But does it have to be a hotel?

Ward Councilor Debbie Hanlon doesn't think so.

From an article in the Scope (Aug 14) by Sarah Smellie -
http://thescope.ca/2008/08/look-up-way-up/#more-3182

"Does it have to be a hotel?" - No, that is a prime site for an office building, but market forces are making office buildings less attractive to developers, and often the largest buildings today in Canada are in fact hotels and condos.

"something has got to go there." - Not really, often developers will let sites remain empty or use them as parking lots.

Likely, a six storey building would have a larger footprint and unattractive massing (shape); or it might require a downsizing of rooms. It likely won't fit in any better with the heritage theme than 11 storeys. Way to go to discourage any sensible development in the city. Who wants to build or stay in a hotel on the ugly mess of Kenmount Road or beside the airport, far away from the city center? However, there may be sites available in the West end of downtown. As much as it seems fair to limit development in the heritage area, it is the entire downtown, and there simply won't be enough capacity available in the existing building inventory for hotels and offices, etc.

"The empty lot at the corner of Water and Prescott street may soon be home to a new hotel. Should it be 11 storeys? 6 storeys? Does it really have to be a hotel? Can we be Europe and Toronto at the same time?"


lol, they compare that to Toronto?? I almost spit out my drink with laughter :lol:

maybe if it were 40 or 50 stories the comment would make sense, but I mean, it's only 11 stories. It just not a big building by any stretch of the imagination. Asking them to down it to 6 kills alot of the economic benefits for them.

"The empty lot at the corner of Water and Prescott street may soon be home to a new hotel. Should it be 11 storeys? 6 storeys? Does it really have to be a hotel? Can we be Europe and Toronto at the same time?"


lol, they compare that to Toronto?? I almost spit out my drink with laughter :lol:

maybe if it were 40 or 50 stories the comment would make sense, but I mean, it's only 11 stories. It just not a big building by any stretch of the imagination. Asking them to down it to 6 kills alot of the economic benefits for them.
Yes, although they are looking at both proposals I would be really suprised if they would approve 11 stories, even though it would have little real impact being next to two taller buildings.. It looks like it will be 6, actually that will be 8 stories facing the harbour, about the right height for that kind of downtown area fabric. There are only two large hotels downtown at present and three medium size ones. There is a shortage, and the city's idea is that existing buildings can meet future needs, but of course that is wishful thinking. The hotel will be 140 rooms btw.

at around 2 % vacancy, Vancouver and Calgary are freaking out about an office space shortage possibly impacting the economy. St. John's will have cranes abound soon for sure.

at around 2 % vacancy, Vancouver and Calgary are freaking out about an office space shortage possibly impacting the economy. St. John's will have cranes abound soon for sure.

Something will get built sooner or later. St. John's has to compete with Halifax, at least a little bit.



Last Updated: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 | 5:03 PM NT
CBC News

Office vacancies in St. John's at lowest level ever

The amount of available office space in St. John's fell to less than three per cent at the end of June — the lowest rate the city has ever seen.

The latest report from real estate company Cushman & Wakefield LePage, which includes a monthly economic update for the city of St. John's, said the overall office market vacancy rate decreased from 5.9 per cent in the second quarter of 2007 to 2.68 per cent for the second quarter of 2008.

Office space in the downtown area is even harder to find, and the situation is expected to worsen as projects like the Hebron oil development gear up.

The lack of available space downtown prompted Emad Rizkalla, the president of high tech company Bluedrop Performance Learning, to renovate an old meatpacking plant on Prescott Street.

"There is space obviously in various parts outside the city. But in terms of downtown and having very high-end professional space, it's an extremely tight market now," he said.

There hasn't been an office tower built in St. John's in 20 years, but with the local economy booming and lease rates creeping up, city councillor and realtor Debbie Hanlon said she expects that will change.

"It just makes economic sense that you are going to build more or renovate the existing ones. There are still some ones down there that can be done. There's still space down there, and maybe council will start rezoning some residential to commercial areas," she said.

Article here:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2008/09/10/office-space.html

Here's some more news on the newest proposed office tower, which will be in the West end of downtown near the entrance to the downtown arterial highway:

New office tower in works for downtown St. John's: sources

Last Updated: Thursday, September 11, 2008 | 2:08 PM NT
CBC News
Plans are coming together for the first office tower development in St. John's in almost two decades, CBC News has learned.

A large vacant lot on New Gower Street is where commercial real estate broker Martek Morgan Finch has been assembling land for the project for more than a year.

Sources tell CBC News that the lot, on the corner of New Gower and Hamilton Avenue, is pegged for a tower for Johnson Insurance, one of the province's oldest insurance companies, which has long been headquartered at Elizabeth Avenue.

Johnson Insurance is believed to be wanting to relocate its headquarters to a new building, and possibly rent out excess space.

As St. John's city hall has not yet been presented with a design, it's not clear how big the building will be, but real estate brokers in the city believe the building will be between 70,000 and 120,000 square feet.

An office tower has not been built in the city since the John Cabot Building opened near Cabot Place and the Delta Hotel in 1991.

The city's heritage bylaws put restrictions on the height of construction in much of the downtown, but the lot in question is outside that zone, which means a developer could build a highrise without breaking height restriction rules.

A new tower, though, would be within walking distance of many downtown amenities, including restaurants and shops.

The project is coming together as commercial real estate vacancy rates in St. John's have reached record lows. A survey in June found that only three per cent of office space in St. John's was available to lease.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2008/09/11/office-tower.html

Here is a new update about the Johnson Insurance Building:

Johnson's hoping to set up shop at new downtown location
The Telegram

Johnson insurance company is hoping to move, but not out of the capital city.
The company is entering an application with the City of St. John’s today (FRIDAY) to build a new head office in downtown St. John’s. . . .

The company is working with real estate consulting firm Martek Morgan Finch on the new head office project, which they have proposed to be an eight story building comprising of 140,000 square feet, with nearly 600 parking spaces, most of which will be indoor.

The proposal also includes green space and will be designed so as not to interrupt sight lines of neighbours.


Complete article here:
http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=179370&sc=79

That's an average of 17,500 sq ft per floor, which is a large footprint (about three times the Fortis building) for this area. The height of an 8 storey office building would normally be around 30 to 35 meters, although in other articles it is described as 22 meters and 8 storeys.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/October2008/09/c5019.html

Good updates, Joev! Keeping us abreast of developments in St John's. I was tempted to go see this play here in Toronto... I'll bet it is fun! :D
ps sorry the picture quality is poor.. it was on the moving subway.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/dawnd_01/Autumn%202007/winter%202007/Summer%202008/New%20Summer%202008/IMGP3763.jpg

^Andy Jones is a class act, really offbeat humour. Hope it plays well in Upper Canada eh.

This is a redevelopment of a great building down on Water street...the building has been converted into condos.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009031.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009029.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009030.jpg

This was converted into condos in 2007 (I believe), very nice...
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009055.jpg

This was completed (redeveloped) in 2008 - great food!
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009087.jpg

^Great pics.

They did a nice job on the King George Building, and your pic shows that it was built in 1911. Imagine if the old Hotel Nfld was still there and could have been converted and preserved too. The old building with the tower (St Patrick's Hall?) has the most expensive condos in the city, I believe, and is divided into only three units. The Yellow Belly building is a good example of the older architecture on Water Street.

New sports complex...
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009002.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009001.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009004.jpg

New Condo:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009003.jpg

^Great pics.

They did a nice job on the King George Building, and your pic shows that it was built in 1911. Imagine if the old Hotel Nfld was still there and could have been converted and preserved too. The old building with the tower (St Patrick's Hall?) has the most expensive condos in the city, I believe, and is divided into only three units. The Yellow Belly building is a good example of the older architecture on Water Street.

I like the brownstone townhouses that were built along side it as well; a bit unique for St-John's.

These have excellent views of downtown and the harbour.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009057.jpg

Wind destroys new $7-million indoor soccer facility in St. John's

Here's a bit of news.

The sports facility structure, still in the construction phase, pictured in the post above (by Jasonzed) was the unfortunate victim of a windstorm:

Owners hopeful downed soccer facility will rise again

The Telegram

In the light of day, Jim Buckingham and John Breen were still hopeful today that their dream of an indoor soccer facility will rise again.
Winds of more than 100 kilometres an hour Wednesday night brought down the steel trusses of the structure, which was under construction in Pleasantville in St. John’s.
Several construction vehicles were left in the wreckage of steel as Buckingham and Breen surveyed the site.
Investigations will have to take place to find out what happened.
But Buckingham was blaming the mayhem today on the weather and bad timing. He said by Friday the last trusses would have been in place and the roof skeleton strong. . . .
“Because the structure was not completed, I figure the bracing was not in place yet,” Buckingham said.
“This is just my personal opinion. I’m not a civil engineer by any stretch.”
None of the steel is salvageable, Buckingham figured.

Link to complete article:
http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=211262&sc=79

"The foundation has been destroyed. All our columns, all our trusses, everything — all destroyed — and we were so close," Buckingham told CBC News
"We were four frames away from having the full structure up, and this would not have happened with the four frames."

The facility was insured.

The winds came with a storm that lashed much of Newfoundland on Wednesday, but continued peaking well after snow and rain subsided.

Environment Canada clocked winds at a station just outside St. John's at 148 km/h on Wednesday night.

Construction on the $7-million indoor soccer facility started last year and was expected to finish later this year.
Link to CBC article:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2009/01/15/wind-soccer.html

Link to pictures from the Telegram:
http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?main=gallery&cid=2104

Very unfortunate indeed. I hope that they can rebuild it; it's situated in a perfect location.

Atlantic Place - redevelopment of a downtown office building.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009005.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009022.jpg

Memorial Arena was converted into a Dominion. There was a lot resistance to this when it was first proposed. I wonder what the locals think about it now that it is done. A sign of things to come for Maple Leafs Gardens and what was already done (AMC, restuarants, etc) to the old Montreal Forum.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009009.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009010.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009008.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/stjohnsJAN2009007.jpg

^Thanks for the pictures.

There was opposition to the stadium development; most people would have preferred that it remain a recreation facility, but I'm glad to see it preserved with a new use as opposed to tearing it down. Atlantic Place looks much better on the bottom floors than before, but it's still a bit like lipstick on a pig so to speak. The absence of any improvements to the top of the building is now more noticable.

^Thanks for the pictures.

There was opposition to the stadium development; most people would have preferred that it remain a recreation facility, but I'm glad to see it preserved with a new use as opposed to tearing it down. Atlantic Place looks better on the bottom floors than before, but it's still lipstick on a pig so to speak.

Agreed on both fronts.

Here's some new developments for St. John's.

Tiffany Village
A complex of five buildings plus lowrise, including four 10 storey seniors apartments/condos/assisted living. The larger 9 storey building on the right is under construction, and should be completed this year. The Village as proposed has approximately 450 units.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9265/tiffanyvillagephasetwonh5.jpg

"The height of the buildings is ten storeys with one basement/parking level. Height above grade will vary because of the sloping ground. At each of the buildings main entrance, the height will be 30.3m, including the parapet. A mechanical penthouse in the middle of the building will be 2.4m in height."

Source, with much more detail about the village:
http://www.stjohns.ca/pdfs/Tiffany_Village_LUAR_Stage_2-_January_13_2009.pdf

Hotel 123 Water Street (Southwest Properties)
Here are some of the provided renderings of the 140 room hotel proposal at 123 Water St (on the waterfront), from the LUAR and city site:

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/9172/prescotthotel2sl3.jpg

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7041/prescotthotel3rm7.jpg

Sources: http://www.stjohns.ca/csj/PubDetails?id=779

PDF file with much more detailed info and illustrations :
http://www.stjohns.ca/pdfs/LUAR_HOTEL_PROPOSAL_123_WATER_STREET.pdf

Public Views Study:
http://www.stjohns.ca/pdfs/Public_Views_123WaterStreet.pdf

The harbour side height will be 27.3 meters to roof, and 17.8 m on the Water Street facade, The building materials and design are chosen within context of the city, and the building height will have no impact on the actual skyline.

The site is within the heritage area (all of downtown), and is actually only zoned for four stories (15 m), so this has to pass through the approval process with lots of opposition. The original proposal was for a 11 storey building.

Edit: This proposal is still being reworked with a possible lowering of height, after being rejected as too tall for the heritage streetscape.

Johnson Insurance Headquarters
Edit: This project now Cancelled, June 2009
8 storey Office Building (proposed) - New Gower Street & Hamilton Avenue, 140,000 sq ft, with 600 parking spaces. This will be the first large private downtown office building in more than 20 years. Height of pinnacle 33 - 35 m (estimate)
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/3046/johnsonbuilding1gi3.jpg
Image: Johnson Insurance
http://www.johnson.ca/

Here's some new development updates for St. John's, sorry no skyscrapers. :)

CBC Capitol Theatre Building Redevelopment
A proposal for the former CBC Radio building on Duckworth Street, built around 1933, to be redeveloped into a complex holding 23 (or 31) condominiums plus office and commercial space. Additional stories would be added (1 or 2) with a building height of 15 meters from Henry Street, and with grade change, about 24 meters from Duckworth. The existing building height is equivalent to six stories or about 19 m including the theatre roof. This is the second proposal for this building, the first being as an arts facility. The design, as shown, would enhance the Art Deco style of the existing building.
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4885/cbcbldgproposaljune2009.jpg
rendering from city website: http://www.stjohns.ca/images/cityser...ng/CBCBldg.jpg
Story: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundlan...socialcomments

Hotel, 123 Water Street (Prescott & Water St.)
This proposal has been revised and this is the third version. "Under the proposed new design, the hotel remains as a 140 unit full-service hotel on six (6) floors above Water Street and parking on two levels below the Water Street level. The height of the hotel building along Water Street is proposed to be reduced from 18.3 metres from the top of the parapet to 17.9 metres from the top of the parapet. The height of the hotel building from Harbour Drive is reduced from 27.3 metres to 22.3 metres by the removal of the pool and spa from the roof level and relocating these amenities to the parking level. The total floor area of the hotel is reduced from approximately 10,885 square metres to approximately 10,370 square metres, a reduction of approximately 515 square metres." Building area in sq ft ~111,621 sq ft. As part of the revision there has been a reduction in parking of about 15 parking spaces for a total of 88.
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6426/123waterr1sml.jpg
http://www.stjohns.ca/csj/NewsDetails?id=832

Fort William Station Condominium
8 - 10 Water Street - 5 stories including parking. This development will consist of six residential condominium buildings to be located on the former Standard Manufacturing site on Water Street East opposite the waterfront. Each building will have eight units for a total of 48 and there will be one level of indoor parking, and an outside parking lot for 34 cars. Approved, and in early construction phase
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2622/fortwmstation2.jpg

Harbour Court, Temperance Street - Condo/Hotel
A 123-room "condominium hotel" is planned for the former Power's Salvage property off Temperance Street. The proposal meets height and other requirements of the heritage area, generally 15 m, with additional height allowed on sloping sites. Building area is 7,318 sq meters or 78,770 sq ft., and the building proposal is 6+ stories at maximum height (approx. 19 meters), with a total of 8 levels on sloping ground.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/09032...y_hotel_coombs
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2793/temperance2newcrsml.jpg
Source, Land Use Assesment: http://www.stjohns.ca/cityservices/p...20Mar%2009.pdf
Sightline renderings: http://www.stjohns.ca/csj/NewsDetails?id=815
http://www.stjohns.ca/cityservices/p...27,%202009.pdf

From the Daily Commercial News...

Beautiful location....

http://www.dcnonl.com/article/id35250

St. John’s condo construction, reno boom linked to oil fields

PAT BRENNAN

correspondent

ST. JOHN’S, NFLD

Construction along North America’s oldest commercial street tells the story of the new Newfoundland.

On one side of Water Street supply ships come and go 24/7 hauling materials to drill rigs chasing oil 300 kilometres out in the Atlantic.

On the other side of the street, construction crews are building million dollar condominium suites into the hillside rising from the water’s edge.

Ships have been coming and going from this natural harbour for more than 500 years, but million dollar condos are a new phenomena on The Rock.

They’re connected.

Property values and residential development have been booming in St. John’s since geologists learned there’s more than 2 billion barrels of oil accessible off the Newfoundland coast.

While housing prices plummeted over the past year on the rest of the continent, in St. John’s they’re running more than 23 per cent higher in the first half of this year over the same period last year.

Prices range up to $1.3 million at The Narrows, a four-storey condominium building under construction on Water Street.

The condo derives its name from its location overlooking The Narrows, the gap in the Atlantic’s rocky shore that opens onto St. John’s Harbour.

It sits next to The Battery, one of the most photographed neighbourhoods in Canada, where colourful, small homes somehow cling to the steep rocky slopes of Signal Hill, where Marconi received the first trans-Atlantic radio signal.

There are several other new condo projects in downtown St. John’s attracting similar prices, with lots of off-shore buyers.

BAE-Newplan Group Ltd., a division of SNC-Lavalin, is the general contractor building The Narrows. Elwood Reid and Albert Williams, two principals at BAE-Newplan, created a private numbered company to own and develop the condo project.

Gerry Cook, an architect on the BAE-Newplan staff, designed the Narrows and used a red brick façade to maintain the traditional look found along St. John’s waterfront.

One of New York City’s most famous architectural firms, Delano & Aldrich, also used a red brick finish when designing King George V Residences of Distinction on Water St., a couple blocks west of The Narrows.

Delano & Aldrich never charged for their work. That was in 1911.

They were persuaded by renowned medical missionary Sir Wilfred T. Grenfell to donate their talents to design a hospice “for the welfare of seamen” on behalf of England’s Royal National Mission to Deep Sea Fishermen.

For much of the last century the four-storey hospice has been home to foreign fishermen, particularly Portuguese, staying temporarily in St. John’s. It was a residence for U.S. military officers during the Second World War.

But it had been sitting as a desolate, vacant eyesore on St. John’s harbour for a decade when renovator Guido Del Rizzo and his partners Leo Power and Rex Anthony purchased the building.

They pumped $10 million into refurbishments and created 12 condo suites which are fetching prices between $900,000 and $1.2 million. Michael Ryder, a winger with the Boston Bruins bought a suite at King George V and so did Adam Pardy, a defenseman with the Calgary Flames. Both players grew up on The Rock.

“We were able to save much of the beautiful wood trim and the stairway banisters during renovations,” said Power. “There’s a magnificent fireplace in the foyer with a large Douglas Fir mantel piece that Guido restored. We put on a new roof and filled in the swimming pool in the basement for underground parking.

“We refurbished the red bricks and the King George V is again one of the classiest buildings on the east coast,” said Power.

In May St. John’s city council gave unanimous approval for a 123-unit hotel/condo project by Nolan Hall Real Estate on Temperance St. on the edge of the historic Battery neighbourhood. The project will consist mostly of 445-square-foot with five-star finishes and selling at $560/sq. ft. Most of the units in the first phase sold to investors in Ireland, England and Newfoundland ex-patriots working in oil fields in Qatar.

There are a lot of business executives spending time in St. John’s on a temporary basis and they’re looking for high-end rental accommodations.

there is quite a bit going on in St. John’s .

there is quite a bit going on in St. John’s .

Downtown there are two high end or near high end condo projects going ahead in the Water Street East area, both are 4 stories plus parking levels. The area's zoning doesn't allow more density. There are no actual high-rise projects beyond 10 stories, proposed or otherwise, because zoning doesn't permit it.

There are also some seniors developments under construction (one 9 storey), and others proposed including four 10 storey buildings at Tiffany Lane and two 6 storey buildings for Topsail Road. The 6 storey Kennys Pond seniors building is completed.

St. John's ranks 4th for building permits value per capita in Canada after Kelowna, Calgary and Barrie. Most of the development is suburban single family; largely concentrated in St. Johns' Southlands and Paradise. Mount Pearl is planning a new subdivision containing several hundred mostly SFH on the Kenmount Hill slope. The thing that is mostly absent is affordable condos for younger people, except for some limited 4 storey low rise or townhouse developments. If you want to move to St. John's and live in an affordable larger scale condo complex conveniently located downtown you are pretty much out of luck.

A new proposal for a 5 storey office building at 345 Water Street was turned down by council (exceeds 15 meter height maximum and does not meet heritage design criteria), but there is an indication of some possible zoning review and changes soon. There is a municipal election at the end of September.

Also, several other hotel projects and condo conversion developments for downtown have been proposed (see posts above), some for over a year but there has been no further activity as of this time.

Thanks for the updates JOEV :cheers:

I hope the height restrictions get changed for the people's sake.

Rumours of a 15 Storey Office Tower Proposal

Although no application has been filed at the city yet, there is word that Fortis, probably the largest company headquartered in Newfoundland-Labrador, is planning a new 15 storey development on the downtown waterfront. If built, this would be the tallest office tower in the province, and the first large commercial office development in over 22 years. However, St. John's City Council has a reputation for turning down any development taller than 4 storeys in the heritage area, and usually developers have to ask for more in order to get less. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

Planned St. John's highrise irks retailer

Last Updated: Friday, November 27, 2009 | 8:39 AM NT

Comments61Recommend23CBC News

A planned highrise development for downtown St. John's is drawing complaints, even though an application has yet to be filed at city hall. A retailer in the area said Fortis Properties is planning a 15-storey office tower for the harbourfront. . . .

Fortis has confirmed to CBC News that it is planning a development on the harbourfront, but the company said it won't release details until it formally files an application with city hall.


Source article here:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2009/11/27/nl-forits-tower-271109.html

Rumours of a 15 Storey Office Tower Proposal

Although no application has been filed at the city yet, there is word that Fortis, probably the largest company headquartered in Newfoundland-Labrador, is planning a new 15 storey development on the downtown waterfront. If built, this would be the tallest office tower in the province, and the first large commercial office development in over 22 years. However, St. John's City Council has a reputation for turning down any development taller than 4 storeys in the heritage area, and usually developers have to ask for more in order to get less. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.



Source article here:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2009/11/27/nl-forits-tower-271109.htmlThe chances of that ever being approved are somewhere around the chances of me winning the lottery. Probably even lower.

It's quite unfortunate, but it's came to be expected in St. John's.

The chances of that ever being approved are somewhere around the chances of me winning the lottery. Probably even lower.

It's quite unfortunate, but it's came to be expected in St. John's.

That's why I called it "rumours"; there is no official confirmation on any of these details, except that they are planning a development.

I think that what's more unfortunate is that there are few sites zoned for these kind of developments; the city doesn't seem to have any planned vision to allow more density. There are sites zoned which could possibly accomodate two or three higher density buildings in the West End, but that's about all.

Update on the 15 storey Fortis Properties office Proposal

It's still not a formal proposal, but the most information on it is for a $75 million development of about 400,000 sq ft near the center of downtown, and might involve the demolition of the existing 12 storey Fortis Building.

CBC radio has had some pretty active discussions and interviews on this.

MP3 Audio from CBC, with a brief description:

"Today on Radio Noon Crosstalk, we're asking how should we develop our downtowns? In part because of word that Fortis is proposing to build a 15-story office tower on Water Street in downtown St. John's. The exisiting Fortis Building would be torn down. Several older buildings owned by Fortis would come down as well. For some thoughts on this, Ramona reached Keith Coombs. He's a former St. John's City Councillor."
http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/nlradionoon_20091201_23847.mp3

"How should our downtowns be developed?
Ramona's guest is longtime heritage activist Shane O'Dea." [mp3 file: runs 46:50]
http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/nlradionoon_20091201_23850.mp3

"A proposal by Fortis to build a huge office tower St. John's has the deputy mayor worried about the future of the downtown. The proposed new building would be on Water Street, and would involve tearing down several older buildings. We reached Shannie Duff a short while ago."
http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/nlradionoon_20091127_23683.mp3

Source - Radio Noon Archive Page:
http://www.cbc.ca/podcasting/pastpodcasts.html?53#ref53

The development comprises of a retrofitted existing 12 storey building, the addition of a new 15 storey tower, and includes retail, parking, and class A office space which is in short supply.

Fortis Properties Corporation announced ... its submission of a development application to the City of St. John’s to redevelop the Company’s Water Street site at the corner of Prescott Street and Harbour Drive. The proposed $75 million project includes the retrofit of the existing Fortis Building and a new 15-storey office building. The complex will include 235,000 square feet of new Class A office space built to Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) Silver Certification standards; 16,000 square feet of ground level retail; a total of 382 underground parking stalls accessible from Harbour Drive; a complete retrofit of the existing Fortis Building to LEED existing building standards; and a pedway connection between the Fortis Building and TD Place.

New Building:
Class A, LEED Silver Certified
15-storeys
235,000 square feet
16,000 square feet of retail
http://www.fortisproperties.com/en/home/aboutus/news/2010/January192010.aspx

Renderings of the proposed development, released by Fortis -
http://www.pbase.com/image/121241957/medium.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/121241952/medium.jpg

Official Source:
http://www.fortisproperties.com/en/home/aboutus/news/2010/January192010.aspx


This proposal is controversial, and facing considerable opposition because it is located on the harbourfront at the center of downtown, which is also the heritage area, and where the allowed building height is normally 15 meters. I estimate this development would be somewhere around 60+ meters.

The development proposal has generated a series of media articles, a facebook group, and thousands of comments, both for and against.

There is absolutely no reason why this development can't be incorporated into the area and compliment it. I hope this goes through for St. John's.

This will be great ! I hope it works out.

Another new development is proposed at 351 Water Street:
11 stories,including 4 parking levels, retail and class A office space. The development will front on Water Street and Harbour Drive. Announced Feb 4th, 2010; this is an office/retail/parking development on the old Woolworth's Dept. Store site.

http://www.pbase.com/image/121684365.jpg

A new proposal for the former Woolworths property in downtown St. John's could bring radical changes to the west end of Water Street.

The 11-storey proposal still has a bunch of procedural hoops to jump through, but from the mood of a planning meeting that took place Thursday, East Port Properties Ltd.'s structure looks headed for approval.

And once that's done, other developers chomping at the bit for site redevelopment between Steers Cove and Waldegrave Street can expect similar treatment.

Even heritage stalwart and Deputy Mayor Shannie Duff is gearing up to exempt the block from the city's heritage zone.

The Woolworths redevelopment also comes with a major first - a public-private partnership to put more parking in the downtown.
http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=324525&sc=79

The new building would have retail space along Water Street, four floors of parking on top of that, and six stories of office space.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2010/02/05/nl-woolworth-building-205.html

I think the exposed parking space needs some work. I imagine inclosing it is fairly expensive and that's why it's rarely done?!? I don't mind the building so much though. It's certainly nicer than the original plan.
Is it the PHB Group that's designing this? They do pretty decent work over all.

I think the exposed parking space needs some work. I imagine inclosing it is fairly expensive and that's why it's rarely done?!? I don't mind the building so much though. It's certainly nicer than the original plan.
Is it the PHB Group that's designing this? They do pretty decent work over all.

Welcome to the forum.

It is by the PHB group.

Enclosing the parking might be expensive, but is certainly possible, and could take many forms. I think the design will change, and maybe will look better when finalized.

Also, here are two links to other current discussion sites about St. John's downtown develoment:

The Fortis Redevelopment: St. John's Citizens for Cooperative Development
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=275230981018

Happy City - Smart Growth in Downtown St. John's
http://happycity.ca/

I was in your fair metropolis in August and I loved it, absolutly loved it.
The people were so friendly, had so much history and are determined to keep it. Living in Vancouver they would see all those small shops and have wet dreams about tearing them down and building another 30 storey glass condo tower.
The place just breathed life and vitality. The arts were alive but not for tourists but for the city's citizans. It was much more "hippyish" than I thought it would be.
Also, one thing I found refreshing was that there didn't seem to be a lot of economic or social stratification. Yes every city has it's rich and poor but it just seemed like there was more of a mingling amongst everyone. Vancouver is the exact opposite.........your income and social standing mean everything. Vancouver has the largest gap between the rich and the poor in the country and also has Canada's highest and lowest income postal codes.
Yes, I fell in love with your fair city, province, and people. I was only to be there for 8 days but stayed 18.................I just didn't want to leave.
One thing that I noticed thou that struck me as quite odd..............nowhere even close to downtown was there a movie theatre, not even and artsy-fartsy one. I can't think of any decent size city in the country where that is the case, why is that?

Television :)

One thing that I noticed thou that struck me as quite odd..............nowhere even close to downtown was there a movie theatre, not even and artsy-fartsy one. I can't think of any decent size city in the country where that is the case, why is that?

There were two movie theatres until the 1970's, (Paramount on Harvey Rd., and Capitol on Henry St.) the Paramount suffered a roof-snowload collapse, and the other just closed, and sits unused. There are still some live theatre venues though which sometimes show arts films. By the 1970's all the theatre business had migrated to the malls. In the first part of the 20th century there were several downtown theatres, strangely none had much of a presence on the main (Water) street, something to do with church influence I think.

Also - you made some very nice and observant comments, glad you got the right feel for the place.

Edit: Here's an article on the subject of the early movie theatres in St. John's:
http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/8/2/2/7/pages182271/p182271-1.php

major metropolises responded to the technology of cinema by inventing new bureaucratic technologies to match, while other, more parochial places simply attempted to incorporate the modernity of the picture show on local terms. On the farthest eastern edge of North America, the city of St. John’s, Newfoundland, at that time capital of its own country (not yet part of Canada), was one of these exceptional places where there was a parochial flavour to regulating the early picture show. The content of films and popular music was not particular to St. John’s, but other factors were relatively distinctive, especially for an urban site: St. John’s was a rare city with a majority Roman Catholic population; the halls leased for shows were pre-existing buildings run by civic and religious associations; the Roman Catholic Archdiocese acted largely outside of secular governance. All of these factors might prompt a comparison with rural areas, especially in Quebec, but St. John’s wasn’t rural – the parochial factor is only reinforced.

http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/8/2/2/7/pages182271/p182271-1.php

hey.

Does anyone know what the progress is with the George Street development?

I read about it a while ago and got pretty excited. I'm familiar with the study and I was wondering if they're going to go through with it or not.

It looks pretty amazing!

http://www.stjohns.ca/cityservices/planning/pdfs/GeorgeStreetRedevelopmentStudy_Final.pdf

Just a note, to say that this thread (and all the others) isn't very active, and that the Fortis Development has been killed by NIMBY's, as we all expected.

Interested parties; go here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=145930&page=64

No further info on George Street, but I'm pretty sure that something will happen there eventually because it doesn't involve anything over 15 meters.

‘The place is booming’

More than 50 major developments could take place in St. John’s this year
Many areas of old St. John’s will soon sport a new look.

The oil-fuelled development boom of the past decade will continue this year, and major developments — well over half a billion dollars worth — are underway or under consideration in the city.

The department of planning’s list of potential major developments for 2011 includes 51 projects that spread from downtown to uptown.

The undertakings range from a Canadian Forces Base to a 10-lot subdivision.

“(The projects) are all over the city,” says Coun. Frank Galgay, chairman of the city’s planning and housing committee.

“The place is booming.”

The biggest boom is resonating in Pleasantville, where the two largest developments are underway.

The Canadian Forces Base is valued at $150 million, while the province’s new long-term care facility has a $100-million price tag.

The home and the base will change the Pleasantville landscape, as will the 975 residential spaces being redeveloped there by the Canada Lands Company.

Significant projects are also underway in the downtown, with the biggest being the office tower/parking garage at the old Woolworth Building on Water Street. Approved in principle, its construction value is $40 million.

Other biggies approved in principle for the oldest area of the city are an $18-million hotel at Prescott and Water plus a $15-million hotel/condo for Temperance Street.

There also a number of downtown projects in the works, including an office building at the old Arcade site on Water Street and parking garage/condo development at the old CBC Building and Bell Street.

The Arcade development is valued at $16 million and the proponent is expected to submit a new plan, Galgay says.

The CBC/Bell Street parking garage is worth $11. 5 million on its own. No figure has been attached to the 90 condos.

That project will face a land-use review and public meeting before council votes on it.

If all the Downtown projects get the thumbs up, Galgay expects, “the inner core of the city will take on a life and vibrancy that hasn’t been there for 40 or 50 years.”

The councillor, whose ward includes the downtown, notes that the new and proposed projects will ease parking migraines by providing a possible 460-odd public spaces.

In the east end, the projects on the planning department’s list include a $10 million condo development at Tiffany Lane, a number of large retail stores, and some subdivisions.

Up Freshwater and Kenmount Roads, an $8-million seniors’ condominium is in the works, as are a new box store off Kelsey Drive, other commercial developments and a handful of subdivisions.

In the centre city, a $4-million mixed development is underway on Blackmarsh Road that includes a seniors’ home.

Proceeding or proposed in the west end are the $5-million redevelopment of the Littledale Complex and a number of subdivisions. Included are two where lots are expected to run $200,000 each and a 200-home project off Ruby Line and Heavy Tree Road.

There are also new subdivisions slated for Kilbride and Goulds.

Galgay says the current council has seen the most development proposals in the city’s history. He’s expecting more.
“If the economy continues as it is we can anticipate further development.”

The projects, he said, will generate revenue for the city through taxes and building permits (the permit for the Canadian Forces Bases was a record $750,000).

Galgay says the challenge is accommodating the progress and maintaining the city’s distinct character. He hopes that responsibility will be easier when the review of the St. John’s municipal plan is completed.

According to the councillor, the downside of development is that people such as senior citizens, low-income earners and the homeless could be adversely affected*.
St. John’s might start sporting a new look but living there might be beyond their reach.

“They can’t afford (housing) and they can’t do it on their own,” he says.

Saying the city has done a lot of work in this area, Galgay says all levels of government must have a level of social conscience to help the less fortunate.

* Someone always need to through a comment in like this. As soon as the ball gets roling thats crap on it. Boys and girls, Your Nimby.

ECHL Hockey Team in St.John's ?
http://www.intotheboards.net/hockey2/images/2010/team_page_logos/echl-logo.gif
Local group looks to bring ECHL team to Mile One
The Mile One Centre online calendar is looking pretty bare these days, but that could change next fall if the 10-year-old rink secures an anchor tenant not seen since the St. John’s Fog Devils junior hockey team was peddled to Montreal interests three years ago.

A group that includes St. John’s businessmen Tony Kenny and John Fisher, along with Mount Pearl lawyer Bill Kennedy, is still trying to land another Quebec Major Junior Hockey League (QMJHL) team for the city.

The trio was in the running, along with St. John’s Sports and Entertainment (SJSE) and St. John’s businessman Derm Dobbin, for one of two QMJHL expansion franchises up for grabs in 2005. The team was eventually awarded to Dobbin.

SJSE, the board which runs Mile One, would like to have another crack at the American Hockey League (AHL), and came close last season when the New York Islanders expressed interest in the former home of the AHL’s Maple Leafs, a team that toiled in St. John’s 14 seasons.

Those talks quickly went south when the Islanders apparently wanted St. John’s to pay a $200,000 or $250,000 penalty — over the course of a number of years — the NHL team would have incurred for breaking an existing lease in Bridgeport, Conn. That’s where New York’s top minor league affiliate is currently housed.

Now, in addition to those two leagues, comes word of yet another potential hockey opportunity — the East Coast Hockey League (ECHL), which is a rung below the AHL on the minor pro hockey ladder. A group in St. John’s is so serious about an ECHL opportunity that they’re heading to Bakersfield, Calif., for the league’s All-Star Classic and board of governors meetings later this month. A source says the group has the finances in place to have a club up and running at Mile One for the fall of 2011.

The league is currently a 19-team operation, featuring an Eastern and Western Conference. There are three divisions within the East, and two in the West.

Four teams comprise each division, but one, that being the Atlantic Division in the Eastern Conference, has only three. It’s in the Atlantic St. John’s — or Newfoundland, depending on which geographical name ownership prefers — would play, joining the Reading, Pa. Royals, Elmira, N.Y. Jackals and Trenton, N.J. Devils.

If the St. John’s bid is accepted by the league’s board of governors, the St. John’s group would be purchasing a new franchise. ECHL teams generally sell for about $500,000 U.S.

Of course, a number of criteria must be met before a team hits the ice next fall, not the least of which is a refundable deposit on 1,500 season tickets, and an arena lease agreement in place.

While it’s still too early to start pushing tickets, the group has been speaking with Mile One management.

The biggest obstacle facing the group might be selling the ECHL (once known as the East Coast Hockey League, the league is now officially called the ECHL). Dubbing itself North America’s premier AA hockey league, the ECHL is AA ball to the AHL’s AAA ball, with the NHL being the Major Leagues, if we could use a baseball model.

The league has a weekly payroll cap of about $500-$600.

Those numbers, coupled with the franchise fee, could make for a sub-$20 ticket for fans, the source said.

If educating the public to a league that’s a relative unknown in these parts figures to be a hurdle, so, too, is the travel factor.

All franchises but one — the Victoria Salmon Kings — are located in the United States, as far south as Naples, Fla., and as far west as Anchorage, Alaska. However, like baseball’s American and National leagues, teams in the East and West play only within their conference during the regular season.

So unless St. John’s meets Las Vegas in the league final, Sin City won’t be on the Newfoundland travel itinerary.

So the Newfoundland team, according to the source, would travel by air to Newark, N.J. or Toronto and bus to Trenton, Elmira, Cincinnat, Ohio, Kalamazoo, Mich., and other ECHL cities.

Here's two of the projects for St.John's

http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af58/Poscstudent/nl-fortis-refurbish-2011010.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7056/janewayhome2.jpg

Whether metro bus services will be restored on monday?

Great to see the city is doing well,any idea when some of these proposals are going to see the light of day?

ECHL Hockey Team in St.John's ?
http://www.intotheboards.net/hockey2/images/2010/team_page_logos/echl-logo.gif
Local group looks to bring ECHL team to Mile One
The Mile One Centre online calendar is looking pretty bare these days, but that could change next fall if the 10-year-old rink secures an anchor tenant not seen since the St. John’s Fog Devils junior hockey team was peddled to Montreal interests three years ago.

A group that includes St. John’s businessmen Tony Kenny and John Fisher, along with Mount Pearl lawyer Bill Kennedy, is still trying to land another Quebec Major Junior Hockey League (QMJHL) team for the city.

The trio was in the running, along with St. John’s Sports and Entertainment (SJSE) and St. John’s businessman Derm Dobbin, for one of two QMJHL expansion franchises up for grabs in 2005. The team was eventually awarded to Dobbin.

SJSE, the board which runs Mile One, would like to have another crack at the American Hockey League (AHL), and came close last season when the New York Islanders expressed interest in the former home of the AHL’s Maple Leafs, a team that toiled in St. John’s 14 seasons.

Those talks quickly went south when the Islanders apparently wanted St. John’s to pay a $200,000 or $250,000 penalty — over the course of a number of years — the NHL team would have incurred for breaking an existing lease in Bridgeport, Conn. That’s where New York’s top minor league affiliate is currently housed.

Now, in addition to those two leagues, comes word of yet another potential hockey opportunity — the East Coast Hockey League (ECHL), which is a rung below the AHL on the minor pro hockey ladder. A group in St. John’s is so serious about an ECHL opportunity that they’re heading to Bakersfield, Calif., for the league’s All-Star Classic and board of governors meetings later this month. A source says the group has the finances in place to have a club up and running at Mile One for the fall of 2011.

The league is currently a 19-team operation, featuring an Eastern and Western Conference. There are three divisions within the East, and two in the West.

Four teams comprise each division, but one, that being the Atlantic Division in the Eastern Conference, has only three. It’s in the Atlantic St. John’s — or Newfoundland, depending on which geographical name ownership prefers — would play, joining the Reading, Pa. Royals, Elmira, N.Y. Jackals and Trenton, N.J. Devils.

If the St. John’s bid is accepted by the league’s board of governors, the St. John’s group would be purchasing a new franchise. ECHL teams generally sell for about $500,000 U.S.

Of course, a number of criteria must be met before a team hits the ice next fall, not the least of which is a refundable deposit on 1,500 season tickets, and an arena lease agreement in place.

While it’s still too early to start pushing tickets, the group has been speaking with Mile One management.

The biggest obstacle facing the group might be selling the ECHL (once known as the East Coast Hockey League, the league is now officially called the ECHL). Dubbing itself North America’s premier AA hockey league, the ECHL is AA ball to the AHL’s AAA ball, with the NHL being the Major Leagues, if we could use a baseball model.

The league has a weekly payroll cap of about $500-$600.

Those numbers, coupled with the franchise fee, could make for a sub-$20 ticket for fans, the source said.

If educating the public to a league that’s a relative unknown in these parts figures to be a hurdle, so, too, is the travel factor.

All franchises but one — the Victoria Salmon Kings — are located in the United States, as far south as Naples, Fla., and as far west as Anchorage, Alaska. However, like baseball’s American and National leagues, teams in the East and West play only within their conference during the regular season.

So unless St. John’s meets Las Vegas in the league final, Sin City won’t be on the Newfoundland travel itinerary.

So the Newfoundland team, according to the source, would travel by air to Newark, N.J. or Toronto and bus to Trenton, Elmira, Cincinnat, Ohio, Kalamazoo, Mich., and other ECHL cities.

The Marlies should return to St. John's instead. That or a QMJHL team. ECHL should be an absolute last resort.

The QMJHL sucked when it was here.

Great to see the city is doing well,any idea when some of these proposals are going to see the light of day?

The Long Term Care facility (second picture below) is under construction, but it's not downtown. The Fortis retrofit (first pic below), is supposed to start this year.

Most proposals for the downtown area have been either very slow to start, or have not been heard from for a considerably long time. Downtown is supposed to see a start on the 12 storey office/parking development at 351 Water later this year. The old Woolworths on the site has already been demolished.

Heritage and height restrictions and reactionary citizen protests have really crippled just about all potential downtown development and I don't expect things to change for a few years, if ever. In Newfoundland there is this laid back attitude of "no boom is necessary, everything is nice the way it is". Aside from all that, the charm is undeniable. ;)

Fortis properties has proposed a new building for the west end of downtown St. John's.

http://www.fortisproperties.com/site-fortis/media/FortisProperties/Rendering%20WED.jpg

http://www.fortisproperties.com/en/home/aboutus/news/2011/April42011.aspx

Fortis properties has proposed a new building for the west end of downtown St. John's.

http://www.fortisproperties.com/site-fortis/media/FortisProperties/Rendering%20WED.jpg

http://www.fortisproperties.com/en/home/aboutus/news/2011/April42011.aspx

This will be good to help revitalize the area, but not just by itself; I'd like to see the site plan because it seems to be a site large enough to accommodate more than one building.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=47.557038,-52.713298&spn=0.001597,0.005262&z=18

12 Storey Hotel proposed for Downtown St. John's

Building application in same area as Fortis highrise

A proposal for a new 12-storey hotel in downtown St. John’s is now before the city.

It is for the same area as a recent proposal for a 12-storey office highrise by Fortis Properties — at Springdale Street, New Gower Street and Hamilton Avenue.

Source Article:
http://www.thetelegram.com/Business/2011-04-27/article-2457967/New-hotel-proposed-for-downtown-St.-John%26rsquo%3Bs-/1

The exact location, size, or design have not yet been disclosed, but the cost is stated as $20 million.

This is the latest of many downtown hotel proposals which have not come to fruition, however, this one may have a better chance of being built if it is not facing the problem of height restrictions as did the others (depending on it's exact location).

Revitalizing the west end of downtown

Two hotels, two office buildings in various stages of approval

The west end of downtown St. John’s has become a hotbed of proposed activity, and could see four new, commercial buildings built within the next year or so.

There are four developments in the same general area. The only one that has been approved so far is a five-storey hotel on the north side of Water Street between Gaze Seeds and the Magic Wok restaurant.

But the city has also received other applications which are in various stages of approval. They include a 12-storey Class A office building on the former Horwood Lumber property off Springdale Street and between Water and New Gower streets; a12-storey hotel for the corner of Springdale and New Gower streets at the foot of Pleasant Street and a recent application for an eight-storey office building and three-storey parking garage on Job Street at the bottom of Hamilton Avenue.

...

“The (city’s) municipal plan has, for a number of years, talked about promoting high-density office development in the west end of downtown because basically lands are available, they can be serviced (and) you have good road access, particularly from the harbour arterial,” said Johnston.

He also said the area has fewer residents who will be directly impacted by development than the east-end of downtown, and the district is not in a heritage area.

“Topography plays a role.” added O’Brien. “The bowl of the harbour is a lot tighter in the east-end. The west end is flatter and there are longer hills (and more gradual inclines), so if you put a tall building there you’re not blocking views to the same impact as you would on the steep side of the harbour.”



Continue to complete article (http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Local/2011-05-16/article-2508581/Revitalizing-the-west-end-of-downtown/1)

http://www.pbase.com/image/134783216.jpg
Photo via The Telegram (http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Local/2011-05-16/article-2508581/Revitalizing-the-west-end-of-downtown/1)

^ These are for the West End, but in all there are about 12 highrise or midrise type proposals for all of downtown, three or four of these will fit into the official highrise category.


Fortis Office Building, 12 fl, 49 m
351 Water St, Office building (6 fl) above parking garage (6 fl), 11/12 fl, 47 m
Hilton Garden Inn, Hotel, West End, 12 fl
Office building West End (Deacon Investments), 8 fl + 3 level parking garage
"Mirador" Duckworth Street, 5 fl condo above new 5 level parking garage
"Marconi" Duckworth Street, repurposing office/theatre building and expanding to 8 or 9 fl
"Mix" Duckworth Street, repurposing & refurbishment with addition 7/8 levels
123 Water Street, Hotel, 6/7 fl
Harbourside Condos, Temperance Street, Condo-hotel, 9 levels
Steele Hotels, Water St West, 5/6 fl
Compusult Office Building, Water St, 5/6 fl
Star of the Sea Condos, 6/7 fl
Marriott Courtyard Hotel Expansion, & pedway connection, 4 fl + 1 parking level

In addition there is a 4 fl condo project partly completed at Water St East, as well as the refurbishment of the existing 12 fl Fortis Building at Water & Prescott.

There are other project proposals outside the downtown area as well.

St. John's aims for massive expansion (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2011/05/18/nl-stjohns-expansion-517.html)

http://www.pbase.com/joecanada/image/134833206.jpg
Source CBC (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2011/05/18/nl-stjohns-expansion-517.html)

The City of St. John's is asking for government approval to pave the way for two major areas of expansion, with at least one neighbour not impressed with the move.

City council is asking the Newfoundland and Labrador government to rezone two swaths of land from rural to urban.

One area of land is near Kenmount Road, while the other is in the largely undeveloped Southlands area.

Deputy Mayor Shannie Duff said the request is justified "because there is huge demand and because it fits in with the general policies of the regional plan. You try to develop from the inside out."

...

The city hopes to see development start as soon as 2012.

Continue to Article (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2011/05/18/nl-stjohns-expansion-517.html)



The areas in question total about 3,200 acres or 5 square miles.

Here is another proposal for St, John's, one of three proposed office towers, this one is technically in a heritage zoned area, but on the edge of downtown's West end in an underused area where the height may not be a big problem.

It is a 10 to 11 storey structure on a gently sloped triangular site at Hamilton Ave & Job St, consisting of an 8 storey class A office building with a 3 level parkade. The project value is $40 million, and the developer is Deacon Investments.

The design takes the heritage context into account more elaborately than any previous proposals, and IMO takes on a shape and design reminiscent of the Flatiron building.

http://www.pbase.com/image/135209057/original.jpg
Source-NTV News video (http://ntv.ca/video/?p=13910)

The view shown here may not be the actual front of the building, the parkade is on a narrow side street where there is not much commercial activity.

This is a proposal for a 12-storey, 180 room hotel, The Hilton Garden Inn, in the West end of downtown St. John’s (April 27, 2011). — at New Gower Street and Hamilton Avenue. There is also the possibility of a second tower being built as Phase 2 of the project. One of four or more projects slated for the west end.

http://www.pbase.com/image/136341346/medium.jpg
Sources: http://www.thetelegram.com/Business/2011-04-27/article-2457967/New-hotel-proposed-for-downtown-St.-John%26rsquo%3Bs-/1
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...hotel-712.html