***Official Sapphire Updates Thread***

[Mr Man]

http://www.reuters.ca/locales/c_newsArticle.jsp?type=topNews&localeKey=en_CA&storyID=7531624

Toronto Tower Duels Trump's to Be Canada's Tallest
Thu February 3, 2005 3:46 PM GMT-05:00

By Solarina Ho

TORONTO (Reuters) - A Toronto real estate developer could trump Donald Trump by building a luxury hotel and condominium tower that would pip the height of a 70-storey one the American entrepreneur plans for Canada's largest city.

At the moment, Harry Stinson's 81-story 1,050-foot (320 meter) planned Sapphire Tower will be just a few feet shorter than the proposed 1,064 feet (324-meter) Trump International Hotel & Tower, a downtown block away.

But Stinson said his plans could change.

"We have been asked whether we're going to reapply for more height because Donald reapplied for more height," he told Reuters. "Without saying anything specific, I think that's pretty self evident. Why lose an opportunity for a little more?"

The C$500 million ($403 million) Trump complex, which its Web site touts as "the tallest residential building in Canada, surpassed in height only by...(Toronto's) CN Tower," was originally slated to be 68-stories high.

But a provincial regulatory board in November approved an application to add two stories.

The two projects, due to start and finish within a year of each other, are described by their respective developers as "landmarks" that will "redefine" Toronto's skyline.

But both sides deny rivalry.

"We do not see it as a competition in any way at all... There's no competition, no ill-will," said Barry Lansberg, the marketing director for the Trump project.

Stinson said media exposure was probably good for both projects.

"Neither one of them actually would have had anywhere near the exposure and public interest without this pseudo-rivalry going on... It's very much in our interest that (Trump) is successful," said Stinson.

Accommodation in the Trump building will be the costlier of the two -- the biggest suite is a three-storey number that carries an C$11 million ($9 million) price tag, and a hotel room will average C$500 to C$600.

The full-floor Sapphire penthouse is priced at C$6.9 million, while hotel room rates will average C$200 to C$300 a night.

"Toronto's not too good on romance and flair. With both Sapphire and Trump's tower, there is a conscious effort to be flamboyant," said Stinson.

($1=$1.24 Canadian)

[metroboi_nay]

I've had enough of these height wars, just build the damn thing!

By the time these are built i'm sure more people will be on the table to build better and higher than both of these buildings! ERGH!

[salvius]

^ well, it's not that easy. They need financing, and that's not very easy. The height wars are just for 'fun' they're not going to result in the tower getting built earlier or later.

[Skybean]

Nice to hear that Sapphire will increase in height from Stinson himself. I don't think Trump will change their height though.

Hopefully by the end of this year we will have both rising at the same time.

[Mr Man]

^ well, it's not that easy. They need financing, and that's not very easy. The height wars are just for 'fun' they're not going to result in the tower getting built earlier or later.

Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who honestly thinks an online petition will fight against the big bad Rogers corporation.

[Gdoggy]

Whoever starts last, will probably end up winning the height war... by the looks of it, i'm gonna say Trump will start last and be tallest.

[Mr Man]

Whoever starts last, will probably end up winning the height war... by the looks of it, i'm gonna say Trump will start last and be tallest.

Very ture. However Trump's height is slightly more difficult as it's been approved - and it theory - locked in by the OMB. Stinson is still before the city and is still free to propose any height. Stinson on the other hand is limited structurally by how tall he can go unless he expands the site... If Trump wanted his building taller, while it may be a bit of a hassle, he'll probably get his height increases.

I say it's anyone's title for the taking at this point.

[Confused Philosopher]

Doesn't Trump have more funding for a tower in TO?

[canada_habs2004]

wouldn't it be awsome if Sapphire was changed to be taller than Trump, so Trump added more height to his tower and then the sapphire again,

and eventually, Toronto has the world's tallest 2 buildings

[urbangta]

They'd need to nearly double the height of their towers to be contenders for world's tallest.

[Mr Man]

They'd need to nearly double the height of their towers to be contenders for world's tallest.

Hell, maybe even triple if Burj ends up 950m

[SD]

"Toronto's not too good on romance and flair. With both Sapphire and Trump's tower, there is a conscious effort to be flamboyant," said Stinson.



Way to sell the city Stinson! Im sure that will help bring a stream of visitors into your hotels...

[Mr Man]

Stinson is definetly an odd ball.

[Lucky 24]

an odd ball with big balls


BTW, I remember reading a Toronto Star article a while back saying that Trump isn't really the main man behind Trump Tower, but some really rich guy in North York and Trump has a small personal investment in the project and is using his name to help promote the project. So wouldn't any height increase to TTT be up to this north york guy?

[416]

No. It's his company that's fronting the money. That's all.

That would like saying it's up to HSBC Bank to determine the height of 1 King (since they provided the financing). It doesn't work that way.

[Accura4Matalan]

I hope Sapphire does beat Trump. I really cannot stand the man.
GO SAPPHIRE.

[JARdan]

When will the buildings be complete?

[neilio]

i hope saphire gets a height increase say 350 m to the tip of the spire. trump i dont care about as much because its not near as beautifull as saphire. I wouldnt mind Trump getting a big height increase to though. I must say im getting really impatient with these building though.. damn start building already!!

[7 World Trade]

lol...i'd rather see trump winning. even though im not that big of a fan of him, i gotta admit, he's got the better design for this. besides, it's located at a more prime spot-close to both scotia plaza and first canadian place.

really, this height competititon is getting dumb. by the time they're done reaching for each other's throats, both towers will beat mt. everest in height.

[doady]

Even if Sapphire tower becomes taller, Trump tower will still look way better.

[Are Be]

wouldn't it be awsome if Sapphire was changed to be taller than Trump, so Trump added more height to his tower and then the sapphire again,

and eventually, Toronto has the world's tallest 2 buildings
Perhaps some of the floors would be occupied!

[neilio]

Even if Sapphire tower becomes taller, Trump tower will still look way better.


i dont get why people think this?! Trump is not boxy like allot of the other big skyscrapers but it is kinda dark coloured and has sharp edges all over the place kinda like all the other Toronto skyscrapers (i still think its nicer looking then any of them) Saphire is a beautifull rounded off blue skyscraper it is different from eveything els in toronto and adds diversity to the skyline

[DarkFenX]

I bet one of the towers in this height war would do what the Chrysler Tower did. Surprise the other by adding a spire or something on top to beat the other tower.

[rbt]

I bet one of the towers in this height war would do what the Chrysler Tower did. Surprise the other by adding a spire or something on top to beat the other tower.

Pretty hard to make a surprise like that. The city tends not to hook up utilities to buildings which surprise them, and anything that isn't "surprising" has gone through a fairly arduous public process.

[cncity]

why r toronto skyscrapers stuck at around 300m....y dont the architects build osmething taller ..more than 450m+ ...like the sears tower in chicago. or something taller...thers no toronto building even in the top 25 of the world....not a good sign for a big city like toronto.......is ther any rule that restricts construction above 350m in toronto ??

[DrJoe]

I agree, lets throw up a 450m skyscraper for no apparent reason...

[DanfromTO]

Personally i would like to see a building go up between 350-400m
maybe over 400m in a decade or so
what eventually has to happen in toronto, is that we have to bridge the gap between the CN Tower and the highest buildings in the Central Business District
The main problem for now is that, we already have 2 300m+ buildings going up in the next 5 years that are residential, i believe that we should have an office building as the tallest builing in Toronto, not residential. Unfortuanatly this wont happen because theres not enough demand for a high office building.
Ideally the next tallest building in Toronto will be an office building, on the west side of the CBD, so it is making the CBD look less dwarfed compared to the CN Tower than it is now... but i dont think the building should be over 400m for now

[The Mad Hatter!!]

^^who cares if its a residential,its still a tall scraper.

[KGB]

I remember reading something about how the city was interested in having another very tall building as part of the Queen's Quay West development project to offset the CN Tower on the east. This would be fine, as there are no shadowing issues or other NIMBY problems in that area to worry about.

Otherwise, height restrictions and basic density and other bylaws pretty much prevent super talls from being a practicality anywhere in the city.

I could see a place like Mississauga allowing a supertall, as they seemed to have done away with height restriction at MCC. There are large enough sites to allow for one megatall building in that area, instead of multiple highrise projects...perhaps someone will propose such a thing? If that city wanted to stand out, a supertall would certainly work.





KGB

[CrazyCanuck]

Do you actually beleive that Toronto would stand for that KGB, being overshadowed by Mississauga? Its a laughable matter to say the least. I also remember hearing about the west side queens quay super tall development, probably just a rumour, but it would make sense. It will happen eventually, right now Toronto is just in a condo boom, when that ends maybe we'll see another office tower or two.

[valantino]

Do you really think a taller building in Mississauga or Vaughan will cause Toronto to be overshadowed?

"The main problem for now is that, we already have 2 300m+ buildings going up in the next 5 years that are residential"

that's a bold assumption

[VAN-TO]

Toronto is just in a condo boom, when that ends maybe we'll see another office tower or two.

This might happen if we can curb the mad rampage of new Office Parks out in the fringes.

[doady]

This might happen if we can curb the mad rampage of new Office Parks out in the fringes.

Well, that easy... lower commercial tax rates and raise residential tax rates to 905 levels.

[valantino]

^Please tell me that you're just kidding with this latest comment

[Mike in TO]

Do you actually beleive that Toronto would stand for that KGB, being overshadowed by Mississauga? Its a laughable matter to say the least.

What influence does Toronto have over what a developer proposes in Mississauga?

None.

Your comment makes no sense. What do you mean Toronto 'wouldn't stand'... it wouldn't make a difference to Toronto if Mississauga builds a tall tower. What do you think is going to happen? David Miller calls up Hazel "This tower that is being proposed is a big problem for us down here. We won't stand for it!"

Now that's laughable.

[416]

:lol:

You never know, maybe David Miller would throw himself in-front of the bulldozers because Toronto: Just. Won't. Stand. For. It!

But yeah, that's a stupid comment. Like the City of Toronto has any control on what a private developer builds in a neighboring city. But more importantly, why should it care?

[Steely Dan]

forgive my ignorance, but i know that toronto's airport is located in mississauga and i was just wondering what the relationship is between the airport and mississauga city center. some cities down here in the states have federally imposed height limits (the Federal Aviation Administration) in their downtown areas due to proximity to airports. moving towards the future, could misissauga ever be in a similar situation regarding height limits in its city center? does canada's aviation authority impose building height limits for areas within a certain proximity of aiports?

[friendlyneighboor]

All this talk and speculation and not a single shovel in the ground. BLAH

Close this thread and any others involving trump or sapphire. The next time I hear about either project is because construction has started!

[valantino]

"could misissauga ever be in a similar situation regarding height limits in its city center? does canada's aviation authority impose building height limits for areas within a certain proximity of aiports?"

Doubtful since Mississauga City Centre is nowhere near any existing flightpath and the airport has little room to spare for any future expansions other than the current multi-year re-development. (not that Mississauga will ever build anything as high as 900 feet anyways)

[tsipaR]

Sapphire Tower is getting fatter!

In his newest infomercial, Stinson reveals that he has just purchased the building adjacent to the Sapphire site. So he's building a wider base for the tower and scrapping the idea of a round mechanical parking system.

And it appears the changes are drastic enough for Stinson to call it a "re-design". New website and miniature model coming soon.

[416]

A REDESIGN! :eek: I'm shocked.

This would be the 4th time now. Who's betting on 5?

[Filip]

^I am!:D I wonder what it'll look like now...

[Travis007]

To be honest, I no longer care what it looks like or how many other redesigns there will be, I just want to see it built. As long as it isn't hideous, I'll learn to live with it and love it in the skyline.

[p5archit]

BTW, I remember reading a Toronto Star article a while back saying that Trump isn't really the main man behind Trump Tower, but some really rich guy in North York and Trump has a small personal investment in the project and is using his name to help promote the project. So wouldn't any height increase to TTT be up to this north york guy?

yeah, the guys name is alex schnaider- he is a russian immigrant- who made is millions- billions by trading steele in russia and former russian states-
i think he has in upwards of $200 million in this project- Trump is more or less just using his name- and yes some capital!!

About Harry Winston...er i mean Stinson..do we really think he is going to manage to get this idea of the drawing table and out of the tv studio and into the ground????

p5

[The Mad Hatter!!]

BTW, I remember reading a Toronto Star article a while back saying that Trump isn't really the main man behind Trump Tower,

p5


he usually never is,he's mostly a junior,junior partner used just as a promotion to try and get the project sold and financed

[rapideye95]

i hope stinson's project rapes trump's. BOTTOM LINE.

[Confused Philosopher]

To be honest, I no longer care what it looks like or how many other redesigns there will be, I just want to see it built. As long as it isn't hideous, I'll learn to live with it and love it in the skyline.

I completely agree.

The thing I worry about most is that they're just gonna keep planning and planning and nothing will ever get built.

[Mechie]

thats awful! we dont want toronto to become a bastion of tachy architecture. Anythign worth doing is worth doing well

[Mike in TO]

Originally Posted by Travis007: To be honest, I no longer care what it looks like or how many other redesigns there will be, I just want to see it built. As long as it isn't hideous, I'll learn to live with it and love it in the skyline

That is a terrible line. Why are you so concerned with height - if it isn't a good design I hope it's only 12 stories. Why or why would you want an ugly designed using poor materials 1000 foot skyscraper that we'll be stuck with in our skyline.


Either do it right or don't do it at all!!

[SpatulaCity]

^ I completely agree. Toronto needs to quickly adjust that attitude otherwise we'll be languishing in our own stew of mediocrity for decades to come.

Come on people... quality is where it's at!

[rapideye95]

the sapphire tower will look better than the rendering look...just wait and see...LOOK AT ONE KING WEST...that is a beautful building...skiny as hell...but still a beauty on one side...the sapphire tower has a brilliant design....the trump tower doesn't have a great colour they should change it up a bit. I seriously think tho that they need to build a 350-400m commericial high-rise to supplement all these future condo owners

[rapideye95]

That is a terrible line. Why are you so concerned with height - if it isn't a good design I hope it's only 12 stories. Why or why would you want an ugly designed using poor materials 1000 foot skyscraper that we'll be stuck with in our skyline.


Either do it right or don't do it at all!!

your point is totally valid. the quality of a building a is extremely important becasue toronto needs a new, fresh, sleek, and non-crap skyscraper...but why not make one that is really tall also...WHO SAYS that you ALWAYS have to compromise height for quality...the difference between chicago and toronto is...chicago will take money and get one large and beutiful building. whereas toronto will build 5 really tiny ones....we already have too much towers between 150m-300-m....we need something that will compliment the CN tower and also achieves high aechitectural glory as well.

[rapideye95]

BTW, the sapphire tower is being re-designed because it says on their website...http://www.stinsonproperties.com

[Travis007]

That is a terrible line. Why are you so concerned with height - if it isn't a good design I hope it's only 12 stories. Why or why would you want an ugly designed using poor materials 1000 foot skyscraper that we'll be stuck with in our skyline.


Either do it right or don't do it at all!!
I never said that I was concerned about height, where did I say that? I could hardly care about whether Trump or Stinson wins the height war.
I also said that as long as it's not hideous, I like it the way it is with the current render.

[Byron]

BTW, the sapphire tower is being re-designed because it says on their website...http://www.stinsonproperties.com

Apparently Stinson is still redesigning 1 King West, as someone (I think it was billy corgan) on UT pointed out with this image from a newspaper from a week or two ago:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/sk8rboiiii/clip_image002.jpg

Notice the blue glass along the entire tower, the fake rendered reflective top. Stinson is looking more and more like a con artist to me.

[Ed007Toronto]

we already have too much towers between 150m-300-m

We do?

[elliot]

He IS a con artist... though this is the first time he's hired an artist over the age of 17 (still sucks).

[Ed007Toronto]

Notice the blue glass along the entire tower, the fake rendered reflective top. Stinson is looking more and more like a con artist to me.

Ever stand at that location on a sunny day when the sky is really clear and blue? That rendering is a pretty close representation.

[DRTO]

Ever stand at that location on a sunny day when the sky is really clear and blue? That rendering is a pretty close representation.
So why not use a picture then? Why would you market a finished building with a rendering instead of a photo? Doesn't it suggest that in reality, the building is not so attractive?

[Mechie]

yea the glass is a actually greener but thats pretty much what it actually looks like

[rapideye95]

So why not use a picture then? Why would you market a finished building with a rendering instead of a photo? Doesn't it suggest that in reality, the building is not so attractive?

Why ask a question that is so obvious...marketing purposes...just becasue the photo is enhanced it doesn't mean the building is not pretty...they just fine-tuned the photo....i'd be worried more about why they keep making the burgers at McDonald's look so good on tv yet the actual product is shyt in a box...everbody wants to be ahead of the competition

[valantino]

"So why not use a picture then? Why would you market a finished building with a rendering instead of a photo? Doesn't it suggest that in reality, the building is not so attractive?"

But, it's not finished

[Byron]

..just becasue the photo is enhanced it doesn't mean the building is not pretty...

Enhanced? The entire top is changed. Even if it wasn't complete yet, Stinson knew reflective glass wouldn't be used by that point. All it tells me is that Stinson either doesn't believe in his product, or he's trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes. That's my interpretation.

[MisterPing]

Clear class reflects like a mirror.
On a clear day, it will reflect the blue of the sky.
On a smoggy day, it will reflect green and/or yellow.

The old ladies do like to bitch.

[thryve]

Check out the low-budget website:
CLICK (http://www.sapphiretower.ca)

...And is this the redesigned Sapphire Tower with the new base, etc.?
http://www.sapphiretower.ca/Toronto1_2A.jpg

[Filip]

^Nope, we're still waiting for the redesign.

[Travis007]

How much of Sapphire Tower do you guys think is sold so far? I remember reading one of those Star articles on sapphire and it saying 150 out of 900 units sold so far but that was a while back.

[Travis007]

Check out the low-budget website:
CLICK (http://www.sapphiretower.ca)

...And is this the redesigned Sapphire Tower with the new base, etc.?
http://www.sapphiretower.ca/Toronto1_2A.jpg
Nah...the website is still underconstruction. And there's no new render of the new redesign either but I heard that the tower is fatter now.

And that's just another one of cassius' amazing Sapphire Tower renders, although this one is not as good as the others, no offence cass it's still pretty good. :)

[Jaye101]

i hope stinson's project rapes trump's. BOTTOM LINE.

I AGREE!!!!

But if it gets thicker, maybe they'll take of some floors...O GOD NO!!!!!

We'll just have to wait!!! :(

I sent an email begging for an advanced rendering LMAFO!!!

[Travis007]

I AGREE!!!!

But if it gets thicker, maybe they'll take of some floors...O GOD NO!!!!!

We'll just have to wait!!! :(
HELL NO!!! :bash:
If anything, Harry wants to have the tallest building in Toronto!

[B.Tinoff]

For one, I dont mind if the building gains weight. But I would worry about this new found girth impeding the progress of sales and therefore, hindering the possibility of a reasonable construction date. If I were Harry, I would get the shovels into the ground as soon as possible.

[rapideye95]

i think stinson wants to win this battle height by a long shot...and i think that he and a lot of other ppl...thought that this design looked too skinny...i heard he changed the height to 88 floors...and it would make sense if stinson wanted to make the tower bulkier...cuz that's exactly what it needs

[Ed007Toronto]

The redesign is pretty simple. The east cylinder is gone. It is being replaced by a rectangular part that will be as high as the previous cylinder, It will also extend further east taking in the space from the office building that Stinson recently bought. The top of the rectangular part will have a series of setbacks as it reaches its ultimate height. And yes there will be a whole wack of additional units with the new scheme.

[Filip]

The redesign is pretty simple. The east cylinder is gone. It is being replaced by a rectangular part that will be as high as the previous cylinder, It will also extend further east taking in the space from the office building that Stinson recently bought. The top of the rectangular part will have a series of setbacks as it reaches its ultimate height. And yes there will be a whole wack of additional units with the new scheme.
Sounds really interesting, I hope it flies.

[rapideye95]

i really hope the new design doesn't look ugly

[neilio]

i think the east cylinder becoming rectangular might look good, i do hope that the Tower and become bigger around over all alowing for more height to be added, I think 1200 feet to the tip of the Spire would be perfect!

[orangeman]

So when do we get to see this rendering?

[rapideye95]

i don't know...lately no developer has their shyt together...lol

[neilio]

i personally hope Saphire goes up, cause its much better looking then Trump, Trump although nicer looking then allot of other toronto scrapers is still kind bland cause it has sharp edges and is flat, Sahpire will add diversity to the skyline

[Mike in TO]

lately no developer has their shyt together

Man, you don't have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to development.

[Confused Philosopher]

For one, I dont mind if the building gains weight. But I would worry about this new found girth impeding the progress of sales and therefore, hindering the possibility of a reasonable construction date. If I were Harry, I would get the shovels into the ground as soon as possible.

I agree.

Potential buyers could be discouraged with the constant changing of plans and designs.

[neilio]

^ i agree, although i would like to see harry build it wider and as a result higher (1200 feet hehe) i still think he should get his ass in gear and get the damned thing approved and the first shovel in the ground before its to late and everyone bales out on him

[rapideye95]

well i just watched the condo show that he airs on SHOPTV...if u have rogers cable it's on channel 21 at 1:00am...he was basically saying that the tower has been redesigned and the new launch of the sapphire tower will be coming very shortly...I HOPE IT"S TALLER AND THICKER AND MORE PERDY. :pepper:

[rapideye95]

I agree.

Potential buyers could be discouraged with the constant changing of plans and designs.

UR absolutely right...STINSON is trying to hard to make (in his terms) the perfect landmark..meanwhile most ppl are getting restless with this...ppl are losing interest...he prolly wants the sapphire tower to sell as fast as "one park tower" did

[Istrian]

In color would look astonishin'...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/istrian/FutureToronto.jpg

[elliot]

OK Istrian, I'll take the bait.

Here's a low res colour piece of a larger pano that is "a work in progress".

Not fixed up and many things missing. You are looking SW from Parliament and Carlton.

SCROLL---------------------> to see Radio City. (Trivia: photo is from 2000 so even 1 King has been added).

http://www.upside-down.ca/sdphotos/panopreview.jpg

[Filip]

^Dear fuck, that's awesome. Never seen a rendering before from this perspective, it's really good!:eek:

[The Mad Hatter!!]

whoa,i'm really starting to love the toronto skyline,large variety of colors

thanks elliot

[Travis007]

Amazing pano elliot! :D

What are those buildings at the far left? Are those buildings planned already?

[elliot]

... and the interesting thing (somewhat sadly) is that much of the "old" skyline is completely obscured: 5 towers of the TD, both RBC towers, Royal York, barely a glimpse of the old Coommerce... and the biggest of the new guys, Cityplace, is unseen... though I understand from satellite positioning experts, Sig will poke it's nose into this shot.

BTW... I'm just the poster, not the painter.

[TheDude]

Amazing pic!

What's the building just to the right of First Canadian Place?

[Homer J. Simpson]

^I think you are talking about either the Ritz, or the B-A Condo thingy.

That pic is very impressive.

[Skybean]

Quite good.

[neilio]

very impressive pic!!! i can wait till Toronto looks like that it will be amazing!
My only question is about the sapphire tower you have in there, the top of the ball in real life will be higher then the top of the FCP, but in the picture the way you have it makes it look lower when from that angle i would think that it would easily appear higher, especialy since it is closer to the viewer because it is behind the main cluster, i hope ya get what i mean cause im not exactly a genius when it comes to this stuff lol, Cant wait to see the finished pano though!!!

[rapideye95]

yeah becasue everyone is making the rendering by the old hieght which was 325 m with spire....so that looks accurate....but dayum I really hope the new sapphire tower doesn't really look like that....becasue that shot of the sapphire tower looks terrible...but that IS a nice PIC in general

[rapideye95]

wait a minute,, it's that another building in front of the sapphire tower or is that really the new design? if that IS new building then i'm sorry the sapphire looks great...just make it taller...the end of the ball is supposed to be just a bit over the height of FCP then the spire....well not to be a nitpic

[rapideye95]

i really hope stinson resigns it much thicker becasue it look way overshadowed by the Scotia Plaza, Trump and FCP

[cassius]

Just a small update. Sapphire went before the City yesterday. I'm not sure when the City will have their report online or what the result was. Hopefully we'll be hearing something soon.

[Etheren]

I can't wait for Toronto to look like that! :D

A little bit off-topic but I hope that the large cylinder of Sapphire Tower end up looking as nice as Westin Paechtree in Atlanta:
http://www.skyscraperpicture.com/atlanta17.jpg

[Istrian]

Thanks Elliot !

That was really unbelievable rendering !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Etheren]

wait a minute,, it's that another building in front of the sapphire tower or is that really the new design? if that IS new building then i'm sorry the sapphire looks great...just make it taller...the end of the ball is supposed to be just a bit over the height of FCP then the spire....well not to be a nitpic
No that is not part of Sapphire. That is the Pantages Tower on Victoria Street which can be seen pretty good from dundas square. I believe that isn't truly part of the picture and it is simply added on to the picture, because in reality the building doesn't shine like that.


PS: I want to see how many of the added buildings I can name: Unknown towers on the east bayfront, 2 tall buildings also on the eastern bayfront, 18 Yonge, (Pianncle Centre and Hummingbird tower seems to be missing :( ), SP!RE, 1 KW,Trump, BA Tower, imaginary tower, sapphire, Ritz, One City Hall II, Met, ROCP, and Radio City. :D

[elliot]

You have guessed correctly.

As for the missing big boys... it's a work in progress so more to come.

The artist decided to include Sapphire but at a modest height. It will likely be replaced by the new rendering when released.

Or perhaps it might be better to wait for next year's renderings.

[neilio]

why would they show it at a "modest" height why not show it at the height its propsed at, i mean if your gonna do that you might as well show the trump as being smaller...which doesnt make any sense, plus it looks better taller anyway...i dont understand this kind of thinking thats all.

[neilio]

and another thing, would it be possible to add signiture tower in city place to the rendering or does the angle not allow for that? and what about 1 bloor east, would it be concealed from this angle to?

[Travis007]

and another thing, would it be possible to add signiture tower in city place to the rendering or does the angle not allow for that? and what about 1 bloor east, would it be concealed from this angle to?

It's possible to place Signature Tower in that pic, but it won't have a big impact in that picture. It'll probably just be seen peaking behind Ritz or something. Or if that imaginary tower wasn't blocking the way. But in reality, it might not even be visible at all in this angle, but there are many other future skyline pics with Sig tower in it, this is probably the first time I've ever seen a rendering picture in this perspective before.

As for 1 Bloor East, it could be possible to place it if the picture was extended more to Bloor Street. I think the pic stops at College.

[rapideye95]

yeah i agree the signature tower will be barely visible from that angle because of the location....maybe it would sneek in in there on the right besides the sapphire tower

[Skybean]

On the good news, Stinson showed off his plans to the city last week and he is going for 90 floors. He truly has trumped the Donald. The current owners will get approx additional 60 sqf free of charge do to the change in the size of the building base.
...http://www.financialforum.ca/toronto/logos/Harry_Stin.jpg

[Mr Man]

90 floors?

$10 says he'll hit a 100 at this rate.

As the height increases, so do my doubts it will be built though.

[rbt]

As the height increases, so do my doubts it will be built though.

If 1 King comes out of the gates with the same occupancy levels and other hotels within the city (between 70 and 80 percent, I believe) within a few months, then Sapphire will be under construction within a year following.

If 1 King comes out of the gates and stumbles, hotels.ca doesn't seem to know it exists yet, then Sapphire probably won't make another sale from that point forward for a number of years.

[Filip]

Woah 90 floors, I always wanted something over 90 storeys in Toronto. But now I really doubt it will be built.

[G_DOG]

he must have found a big investor

[neilio]

Govener Arnold @UT where did you get this info? this is good news it seems but does give me doubts as to whether it will be built or not. The current 90 floore will allow it to be about 344.7m, but most likely he will make the spire taller so im guessing his current proposal is about 350m to the tip of the spire!

[punkstarbassist101]

Govener Arnold @UT where did you get this info? this is good news it seems but does give me doubts as to whether it will be built or not. The current 90 floore will allow it to be about 344.7m, but most likely he will make the spire taller so im guessing his current proposal is about 350m to the tip of the spire!

I'm not trying to get to carried away here but FCP is 355m too the antenna maybe Stinson may go higher than just 350m

[Travis007]

I'm not trying to get to carried away here but FCP is 355m too the antenna maybe Stinson may go higher than just 350m
Well antennae's don't count for building heights like spires do, so I don't know why Stinson would even care for beating FCP's antennae.

You know what Stinson...just build the damn thing already.... :(

[neilio]

Well antennae's don't count for building heights like spires do, so I don't know why Stinson would even care for beating FCP's antennae.

You know what Stinson...just build the damn thing already.... :(

i never did understand this, an Antenna is more a a building feature then a spire IMO, I mean antenna's in allot of cases are larger then spires, sometimes wider and they actually serve a purpose and have a function. I think building height should be based on to the tip of the antenna not spire.

[Travis007]

i never did understand this, an Antenna is more a a building feature then a spire IMO, I mean antenna's in allot of cases are larger then spires, sometimes wider and they actually serve a purpose and have a function. I think building height should be based on to the tip of the antenna not spire.
True. IMO, neither spires or antennaes should be counted in the height at all. But that's just the way they count heights. If they counted FCP's anteanne, then it would be listed at somewhere over 1100 ft. and probably in the world's top 10(?).

But then you could also look at Sears Tower in Chicago and the Petronas towers in KL. When Petronas became worlds tallest, it was taller than Sears Tower because of the ball and spire it has. They counted the spire even though it was a cheater and Sears Tower was still a little bit taller than Petronas in usuable height. Sears also has a huge antennae component on top if its building and it would be listed as 1700 ft (?) but they didn't count it. Weird huh?

[Homer J. Simpson]

^I agree that neither should be counted. I am a firm supporter of roof height, not antenna or spire heights.

BTW, ST's antennae is about 527m and the CTT is about 553m, not a huge difference when you think about it eh.

[valantino]

"i never did understand this, an Antenna is more a a building feature then a spire "

An antenna has no part in a building's design and they do tend to be removed when no longer needed or altered (ex. FCP's main antenna was just increased in height) to improve their function

[neilio]

"i never did understand this, an Antenna is more a a building feature then a spire "

An antenna has no part in a building's design and they do tend to be removed when no longer needed or altered (ex. FCP's main antenna was just increased in height) to improve their function

so what..i mean it is still connected to the building and is a part of the building, so while its there whether it can be removed or not it is just as much a part of the building as a spire. I just cant stand this spire bull shit, i mean if you ask any average person who knows nothing about buildings and show them the petronas towers and sears tower and ask them which is taller every single one will say the sears tower is, ive done it, some have said "obviously the sears tower is taller" and yet the people who make these "height rules" choose to do the exact opposite of what this simple logic suggests (that the sears tower is indeed taller then the petronas towers)...are they retarded?

[Homer J. Simpson]

"i never did understand this, an Antenna is more a a building feature then a spire "

An antenna has no part in a building's design and they do tend to be removed when no longer needed or altered (ex. FCP's main antenna was just increased in height) to improve their function

Wow, I had never thought of it from that angle. It makes alot more sense now.

[rapideye95]

i'm glad that stinson won't let trump win the height war...but please build the damn thing....when construction starts....just watch someone will come out with a higher building...so he's just wasting valuable time

[Travis007]

i'm glad that stinson won't let trump win the height war...but please build the damn thing....when construction starts....just watch someone will come out our with a higher building...so he just wasting valuable time

I highly doubt that someone else will come out and just propose an even taller condo building. I'm pretty sure that after Trump and Sapphire, most of Toronto's upcoming condo towers won't be super tall, but will be decent height, which is fine with me.
Unless, Brookfield comes out with a list of big time tenants for its BA tower and proposes a 1400 ft to wow us all! :D

[rapideye95]

look down

[rapideye95]

oh i wasnt talking about just condos...:)...SAY what? what is brookfield doing...and what BA tower?

[Travis007]

oh i wasnt talking about just condos...:)...SAY what? what is brookfield doing...and what BA tower?
Nothing official, but there are rumours that Brookfield might come out with a really tall tower. Offcourse these are just rumours that I've read on SCC and other sites. Offcourse, Brookfield will have to find some big tenants to fill the Bay-Adelaide Tower, because it was on-hold since 1993 when the office market soured.

[Jaye101]

I highly doubt that someone else will come out and just propose an even taller condo building. I'm pretty sure that after Trump and Sapphire, most of Toronto's upcoming condo towers won't be super tall, but will be decent height, which is fine with me.
Unless, Brookfield comes out with a list of big time tenants for its BA tower and proposes a 1400 ft to wow us all! :D

I don't beleive that. I think people will keep on building higher towers.

[Travis007]

I don't beleive that. I think people will keep on building higher towers.
It depends on how the market is and what's the demand of these super-tall towers. I would love to see the market booming to Toronto forever but that's just my imagination not reality.

[Lucky 24]

Toronto's population will double over the next 20 years, and if the politicians are really serious about curbing sprawl, I would expect the demand for dense inner city housing to stay fairly consistent over the next 15 years.

[Travis007]

Toronto's population will double over the next 20 years, and if the politicians are really serious about curbing sprawl, I would expect the demand for dense inner city housing to stay fairly consistent over the next 15 years.
But wouldn't the newer developments happen in Toronto's new waterfront area that will be developed in the future?

[Lucky 24]

Oh yeah, definitely.

[ssiguy2]

Toronto's population will NOT double over the next 20 years.
The GTA will grow to 8.5 to 9.0 million by 2026 from its current 5.8. Hefty growth for sure but it will not double its size. In order for a city to double its pop in 20years it has to roughly grow at 3% a year. Toronto is growing at 2% meaning it will take 30 years to double and even that pushing it.
As the population ages the big swath of people will begin to die.....namely the baby boomers. By 2030 all baby boombers will be atleast 70 and as the birth rate is low in Canada we are not even reproducing ourselves.
Of course the big IF for Toronto growth is immigration which is purly political.
More than any city, Toronto's population growth depends on immigration.

[Ed007Toronto]

http://www.chartattack.com/ed/SapphireCity9_ls.jpg

[Skybean]

^GOOD LORD!!!! God man.. that looks impressive.

[Ed007Toronto]

Its the official rendering. Launch is May 25.

[jonovision]

Is that the redesign?!

[Dino Domingo]

Hey! Not bad!

[valantino]

(For now) Can't say I like it

So is this version officially 341m?

[MisterPing]

The shorter rectangle part should be oval shaped.
:2cents:

[james2390]

Looks like an import from China. :puke:

[Filip]

Oh GOD IT LOOKS LIKE THOSE SHANGHAI TOWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:puke: That's it I'm moving to Mississauga....

[friendlyneighboor]

Looks awful from that angle. There no longer is a flow to the building.
I'd rather see a box built than this. or just go back to the previous design which made sense.

[valantino]

It may have looked better to terrace the top of the the slab/podium/garage/whatever towards the tower itself (think waterparkcity)

[Jaye101]

*CRYING* I liked the one b4 this so much better..This is a HUGE dissapointment

[SD]

Overall, it looks fairly ridiculous, at least from that angle.

[rapideye95]

OMFG...couldn't he just increase the height and that's it?

[rapideye95]

okay lemme get this straight...nvm this is just not right...if would have bought that extra space beside the building....i would have kept the same design and i would have made it thicker and taller....all he had to do was blow it up a bit more...the two cylinder design was way better...this one is not bad...i styll like it...but cmon..what are those stairs for? does it serve a purpose?...unless that rectangle is used differently from the cylinder then i think it's a crap design

[KGB]

Well, I thought he bought the building next door, because that elevated automated parking machine thing he origionally planned was impractical, and he needs more space to provide normal parking? That's why it's square.





KGB

[cassius]

this one is not bad...i styll like it...but cmon..what are those stairs for? does it serve a purpose?...
Yes, it's purpose is to appease the City as they had concerns about shadow impacts over City Hall/Nathan Phillips Square. At least, that's what I think.

[rapideye95]

i dunno why shadows matter so much

[Hillis]

Looks... silly.

[neilio]

Toronto's population will double over the next 20 years, and if the politicians are really serious about curbing sprawl, I would expect the demand for dense inner city housing to stay fairly consistent over the next 15 years.

actually stats can says Toronto has about 5.2 million people not 5.5 or 5.8 like some people believe, with a population growth of 90,000 to 120,000 a year in the GTA Toronto gains a little over 1,000,000 people every 10 years. so 7.5 million is a realistic prediction not 10.4 million, now with the area aroudn Toronto that is not considered to be in the GTA Toronto will have about 10 million people by American standards

[neilio]

http://www.chartattack.com/ed/SapphireCity9_ls.jpg

very impressive picture...kinda low quality though it seems...could just be me i dunno. I dont like the square part, i wish they had just made the smaller cylinder abit bigger, the tower looks very nice its beautifull but would look WAYYYYY better with a larger "smaller" cylinder instead.

[Travis007]

The tower doesn't look right for some reason, having two cylinders was much better.
But don't worry, I'm sure that this design will last a few months before the next re-design. :D

[G_DOG]

wouldnt mind seeing trump in that picture !

[Skybean]

This is a good shot for all of the downtown developments. You could also pencil in CityPlace ("mini-Vancouver"). That area will look incredible in a few years.

[ssiguy2]

neileo

the GTA which is a true urban reflection of Toronto is 5.8.
The StatsCan numbers do not include the 330,000 in Oshawa or the 160,000 in Burlington.

[G_DOG]

i like it ! its going to make a huge impact on the skyline!

[neilio]

neileo

the GTA which is a true urban reflection of Toronto is 5.8.
The StatsCan numbers do not include the 330,000 in Oshawa or the 160,000 in Burlington.

I understand your point, but ive lived in Oshawa an have never concidered it a part of Toronto, i mean from oshawa to my fathers place in North York its an hours drive, and there is country side in between..although it is slowly disapearing, and since oshawa is considered a seperate city by stats can and all i feel fine with excluding it from the GTA, although i would like to see it become a part of the GTA officially

[neilio]

Its the official rendering. Launch is May 25.
Hey how or where did you get this "official rendering" cause i went to the site and it still shows the old rendering....is it from another web site, and are there anymore or is this the only rendering sofar?

[officedweller]

The tower would look better if it was moved to the east a bit. Mind you, if the tower and the base matched better - it could have a classic Woolworth Building style to it.

But if the base is a stepped box, what relationship does the cylindrical tower have to the base? Why not change the tower to a rectangular tower, maybe with steps to match the base? (apart from all of the presales....). OR round off the roof or some of the corners of the base, like this tower in Seattle:
www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=119455

Then there's always the danger of looking too phallic - maybe that's why the lowrise isn't rounded.

[neilio]

The tower would look better if it was moved to the east a bit. Mind you, if the tower and the base matched better - it could have a classic Woolworth Building style to it.

But if the base is a stepped box, what relationship does the cylindrical tower have to the base? Why not change the tower to a rectangular tower, maybe with steps to match the base? (apart from all of the presales....). OR round off the roof or some of the corners of the base, like this tower in Seattle:
www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=119455

Then there's always the danger of looking too phallic - maybe that's why the lowrise isn't rounded.

no i dont think the whole building should become a rectangle, it should stay as a cylinder, we dont need another box in toronto, why they ever changed the side to make it a rectangle is beyond me, can the lead designers not see that IT DOESNT LOOK GOOD. lol

[You are to blame]

like everyone else i hate the redesign, but on the up side you will not be able to see the stairs in the skyline, because it isn't tall enough

[MisterPing]

The Sapphire’s site is so narrow the main tower cannot be made wider.
The main tower will already overhang the Graphic arts building.

The rectangle part could have been made oval. This would have made
the building look more like the original design. They also could have just
went with the original and extended the gold base. The site may
be big enough for three towers.

[Ed007Toronto]

The site's barely large enough for one tower. You guys don't seem to realize the one tower in the new rendering will be in league with One King when it comes to tall and thin.

[Ed007Toronto]

Hey how or where did you get this "official rendering" cause i went to the site and it still shows the old rendering....is it from another web site, and are there anymore or is this the only rendering sofar?

Because I have friends :)

There are more but that's all I can post right now. More coming someday soon.

[Jaye101]

I understand your point, but ive lived in Oshawa an have never concidered it a part of Toronto, i mean from oshawa to my fathers place in North York its an hours drive, and there is country side in between..although it is slowly disapearing, and since oshawa is considered a seperate city by stats can and all i feel fine with excluding it from the GTA, although i would like to see it become a part of the GTA officially

Oshawa is a part of the GTA, the only city thats not technically a part of GTA is Hamilton.

[Lucky 24]

I'm going to sticky this thread since we seem to be getting a lot of discussion about it lately. All updates on Sapphire should go in this thread. Any new threads which includes new updates about Sapphire will be merged into this thread.

[neilio]

Oshawa is a part of the GTA, the only city thats not technically a part of GTA is Hamilton.

well IYO i guess, but the government (the ones who decide this stuff) sure dont think it is, otherwise why would they list it as a seperate city.

[rapideye95]

i am ultimately disappointed in stinson i thought he knew what looked good....well i was wrong....." if it ain't broke, dun fix it" now he's gonna build a broken project... (XD

[Gdoggy]

well IYO i guess, but the government (the ones who decide this stuff) sure dont think it is, otherwise why would they list it as a seperate city.


I'd love to see your gov't list for cities in the GTA then...
must be martian made

[neilio]

I'd love to see your gov't list for cities in the GTA then...
must be martian made

ok i guess statscan.ca is made by martians then, damn government martians!

[Travis007]

i am ultimately disappointed in stinson i thought he knew what looked good....well i was wrong....." if it ain't broke, dun fix it" now he's gonna build a broken project... (XD
Well Stinson is no Donald Trump. He doesn't live in a luxurious gold-crested penthouse suite in NYC, Stinson lives in a small downtown condo with his wife and daughter, which they'll move out of and into their new 1KW condo when it's complete.
And I don't think that this project is "broken", the tower still looks nice, but it might of been too skinny when it has 2 cylinders.Yeah, this tower will be in the same league as 1KW is, slim, skinny and tall.

[Buster]

Well Stinson is no Donald Trump. He doesn't live in a luxurious gold-crested penthouse suite in NYC, Stinson lives in a small downtown condo with his wife and daughter, which they'll move out of and into their new 1KW condo when it's complete.
And I don't think that this project is "broken", the tower still looks nice, but it might of been too skinny when it has 2 cylinders.Yeah, this tower will be in the same league as 1KW is, slim, skinny and tall.

Agreed.

It could be a lot worse. However, I'm afraid there'll be some major cheap-outs along the way and we'll end up with vertical urban blight.

[416]

So let's review. This building has yet to be approved by City Hall and has now been redesigned 4 times.

That's great. Really makes me want to give them my money.

BTW, when is 1 King opening :|

[punkstarbassist101]

How many floors is the rectangular part of the building?

[neilio]

How many floors is the rectangular part of the building?

7,5462,6745,437437745 floors you moron!! lol just joking i dont know, thats a good question i wish i knew. Ive never actually seen any stats saying exactly how tall the second part of it is. You would think it would be a more widly known thing.

[Travis007]

How many floors is the rectangular part of the building?
No one really know that yet. This newly re-designed building hasn't even had a public release yet, we've just seen the render. I'm pretty sure they'll say when they re-release it on May 26.
I assume it's somewhere in the 40-50s

[Hillis]

Looks... silly.
I take that back... looking at it again... I say it looks, stupid. :bash:

[Travis007]

I take that back... looking at it again... I say it looks, stupid. :bash:
Just give it some time Hillis and I'm sure the design will catch on. I think that the tower looks a lot more "toronto" now since most of Toronto's tallest scrapes are boxy.

[CrazyCanuck]

What he should have done is put setbacks on both sides, so it kind of looks like a pyramid. With the setbacks only on one side it looks kind of awkward. But i'm still going to wait for some more renderings before I make a final judgement.

[rapideye95]

the new sapphire has more of an aquired immunity to it...if you look at the rendering too long like i have...u'll actually start to appreciate it..lol..and following what every one else said: it's true nothing can really be said about the new design until it's release date on may 25 or 26...all the talks between then will all be just speculation

[Travis007]

The new Sapphire Tower just might as well be 2 separate towers because for some reason the Rectangular and Cylinder parts just don't seem to go together right. But the design is growing on me.

[thryve]

Ewwwwwwwwww I hate it. It was so graceful, now it is clumsy and will be made fun of in the future as we look back on our over-acceptance of ugly condos... oh man this really is one of my most-hated designs ever... literally.

[rapideye95]

it's victoria day now...anyone got anymore info?????

[neilio]

i think the "info flow" has kinda died down for now

[rapideye95]

kinda thought the same...but asking anyways

[Travis007]

I believe the official re-release date where Stinson will announce the 150 storey 2400 ft. sapphire tower is May 25 or 26. :D :crazy:
I think that everyone has kind of stopped caring and have forgotten about Stinson and Saphhire tower. And where has Stinson been lately? Makes you kinda think that he and his family and gone into hiding in Mexico or something.

[cassius]

They're prepping to remarket it, probably early to mid June.

[SD]

They're prepping to remarket it, probably early to mid June.


I thought it was May 25...another delay?

[Metroland]

2400 ft.? are u really serious?

[rapideye95]

2400 ft.? are u really serious?

if you watch "the condo show" if ur in the toronto area...it's stinson's infomercial that he has late at night...i forget what channel...but he explains basically that the new tower is in redesign...he showed the old model..but he explained the new changes...and said it will be 88 stories

[neilio]

if you watch "the condo show" if ur in the toronto area...it's stinson's infomercial that he has late at night...i forget what channel...but he explains basically that the new tower is in redesign...he showed the old model..but he explained the new changes...and said it will be 88 stories

i thought he re-applied for 90 stories?

[algonquin]

what's this 2400' talk? I'm hearing 88, 90, and 150 stories. Could someone clear this up?

[Wildchild]

Will some of you carefully read what is written please. The person who insinuated 2400' meant so jokingly hence the faces -- :crazy: :D
The redesign has more to do with shadowing and if any a very slight chance of a height increase.

[algonquin]

I usually ignore smileys...

[Travis007]

Sorry...I guess you guys took my joke too seriously. C'mon... 2400 ft.??? That's not possible in Toronto. :bleh:

[rapideye95]

Sorry...I guess you guys took my joke too seriously. C'mon... 2400 ft.??? That's not possible in Toronto. :bleh:

Bro it's amazing how some people can be so gullable...LOL...i'm shocked people are styll talking about 2400 ft...XD :D

[rapideye95]

i could see the old design having a height increase...it would have made sense...but now that the building looks worse i think it should stay the way it is....there will be better buildings in the future...it's just so happens it's a big deal for torontonians because this will be the first 300+ meter high-rise...but i believe that there will be more for toronto completed b4 2015...who knows...someone could be in the works of building some thing bigger and taller...perhaps...a mixed use building

[partybits]

I think in a couple more redesigns the Sapphire going to go to the Moon. And Trump is off to Mars. JUST BUILD THE DAMN THINGS!!!!!!!

I'm going to the site and starting to dig a hole...whose with me!?!? :hahaha:

[rapideye95]

I think STINKson is screwed....i tried e-mailing info@sapphiretower.ca and their mail server is never open....what's the point of having a mail server if you aren't gonna allow people to e-mail you

[Travis007]

I think STINKson is screwed....i tried e-mailing info@sapphiretower.ca and their mail server is never open....what's the point of having a mail server if you aren't gonna allow people to e-mail you
That's what you call a low budget website. :(
I don't even think that he has a e-mail address for that domain, it's probably just something used to look like "professional". If you compare Stinson and Trump's websites, there's a huge difference.

[Ed007Toronto]

Some tidbits:

- the application is before the city. They seem to like the new look.
- they are going for 90 floors in the tower. The other part tops out at 53 floors.
- on the rectangular part the building steps back starting at the 49th floor. Units here will all have large terraces. The shadowing problem should now be a non-issue because of this change.
- there will be 1144 units
- they now own the building directly east of the parking lot. This building will be torn down in October.
- because the building is now wider they will now have room to build a proper garage with ramps instead of the previous elevator type system. There will be 300 parking spots.
- the lobby will be on the third floor and will be accessed by escalators.

Layout:
- 3 underground levels for ballrooms and meeting rooms.
- 1 underground level for loading and mechanical
- first two levels loading and arrivals (for cars, taxi's etc)
- 3rd floor lobby
- 4-13 parking
- 14-16 mechanical, laundry, kitchen etc.
- 17-44 hotel suites
- 45-48 sky lobby (for units above), spa, pool etc
- 49-53 larger units, expect them to be condo residences. These have the terraces
- 54-65 larger boutique hotel units
- 66-77 1/4 floor sized units, most likely condo residences again
- 78-87 full floor penthouse or 1/4 floor units depending on demand
- 88-90 mechanical

Height:
Top of rectangular part (53rd floor) 173.75m
To Roof (top of 90th floor) 287m
To top of sphere 314m
To top of spire 342m

Timeline:
Demolition of office building: Oct 2005
Construction: not before December 2005
Completion: estimated 2008

[rapideye95]

- """""the application is before the city. They seem to like the new look."""

WOW they like it...man i don't know what those ppl are smoking but i sure would like some

[Travis007]

Oh well, at least there seems to be no problem with this getting approved. Now if Stinson could only sell all 1144 units. *sigh*
The know that the October 2005 demolishion of the office building doesn't guarantee Sapphire Tower getting built, but it does make me a little less insecure about it getting built or not.

[Ed007Toronto]

I think STINKson is screwed....i tried e-mailing info@sapphiretower.ca and their mail server is never open....what's the point of having a mail server if you aren't gonna allow people to e-mail you


Well maybe if you tried .com instead of .ca you might get something to happen.

[SD]

Well maybe if you tried .com instead of .ca you might get something to happen.

The "Click here for more details link" is .ca, not .com.

[Roch5220]

I reallydon't think the rectangular part of the building is too bad. You will hardly see it on the skyline. The important thing is how it looks at street level.

[Homer J. Simpson]

WOW they like it...man i don't know what those ppl are smoking but i sure would like some

Lets just hope that they keep on smoking that shit.

[SD]

Lets just hope that they keep on smoking that shit.

Let's not. This design is ridiculous.

[Homer J. Simpson]

^Ridiculous it may currently be, but even more ridiculous it would be if it was not supported by the city because its 3 stories to tall for somebody at city hall.

[SD]

^Ridiculous it may currently be, but even more ridiculous it would be if it was not supported by the city because its 3 stories to tall for somebody at city hall.

Actually, I'd rather see it not supported and redesigned again.

[Homer J. Simpson]

True enough though I would still hate to see its height reduced.

[rapideye95]

OH NO PLZ PLZ NOT THE HEIGHT LOL ;D

[416]

The "Click here for more details link" is .ca, not .com.

HAHA. I'm shocked. Honestly, this Harry guy is a joke. He should keep his pipe dreams to himself until he has a sound financial & marketing plan, site aquisition and most importantly, City approval.

So what happens to the guy who originally bought a unit in 'First Toronto Tower'? Or the one who bought in 'Downtown Plaza (the first design or second)?". This is not the way to build a project or credibility.

Based on 1 King (which is still not even close to opening) and Harry's other long delayed project 'High Park Lofts', why would anyone in their right mind invest in Sapphire?

[rapideye95]

as everyday passes i doubt even more that THIS "THING" will ever get built

[Buster]

as everyday passes i doubt even more that THIS "THING" will ever get built

Ye of little faith.

Then again, I feel the same way too.

[doady]

I actually hope this thing never gets built... at least not the way it looks now...

[Skybean]

I found another rendering of Sapphire.. you may have to squint
http://www.onekingwest.com/images/header_2.jpg

The new 1 King website is up. It looks..........professional
http://www.onekingwest.com/suites/images/bgd-feature.jpg .


http://www.onekingwest.com/index.html

[Travis007]

^^ Haha...
Stinson used the picture of 1KW with the fake top. :( But I gotta say Stinson made a pretty nice website compared to his sapphire tower one. :okay:

[Travis007]

There's too many haters of Stinson and the Sapphire Tower now but I have to keep the faith. :D

http://www.onekingwest.com/images/header_2.jpg
I can kind of see ST in that pic with the new rectangular box. And wait...huh??? Minor detail...why is the harbourfront covered by a wall of imaginary condo towers? They're cleary not there in reality...or is Stinson looking forward to developing waterfront condos too...?? ;)

[Travis007]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Switzer/sap.jpg
My drawings are pretty bad but here's my drawings comparing the new ST to the old ST with Trump in there for some reason and a side view of ST.

[punkstarbassist101]

Just a quick rendering of what I thought Sapphire would look like beside the old sapphire rendering and other Toronto buildings. I sure hope that rectangular part is less wider though. In time will know, hey Ed007Toronto since you know so much about the building does it still have the yellow base? or are you not allowed to let anyone else know?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/skypics/c3a87ad7.bmp
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/skypics/0bfb9fd9.bmp

[Travis007]

^^^ punkstarbassist101, you've outdone me there. You've completely made my drawings look like crap and totally worthless. :tongue2:

[BlackFlag]

Minor detail...why is the harbourfront covered by a wall of imaginary condo towers? They're cleary not there in reality...or is Stinson looking forward to developing waterfront condos too...?? ;)

All of those condos do exist.

As for everyone who is so very impatient with this project, just remember how long 1 King West took to start...when it was proposed many thought it would never get built. It'll take some time, but Harry will very likely succeed at putting up a very tall building on this site (in one form or another).

[rapideye95]

There's too many haters of Stinson and the Sapphire Tower now but I have to keep the faith. :D

http://www.onekingwest.com/images/header_2.jpg
I can kind of see ST in that pic with the new rectangular box. And wait...huh??? Minor detail...why is the harbourfront covered by a wall of imaginary condo towers? They're cleary not there in reality...or is Stinson looking forward to developing waterfront condos too...?? ;)

yeah those condos exist...but they look unreal...maybe becasue the angle and everyhting...it's a magnificent shot

[rise_against]

well people say that toronto does not have enough original designs this one certainly is orginal in being that i dont think there is any other building that looks like this one.

[rapideye95]

are there any clearer renderings that are higher res of that pic ^^^^^

[rapideye95]

i'm starting to think that the final product might actually be better than what the renderings show...this building will look magnificent on a bright sunny day when the light shines off the building

[neilio]

Just a quick rendering of what I thought Sapphire would look like beside the old sapphire rendering and other Toronto buildings. I sure hope that rectangular part is less wider though. In time will know, hey Ed007Toronto since you know so much about the building does it still have the yellow base? or are you not allowed to let anyone else know?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/skypics/c3a87ad7.bmp
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/skypics/0bfb9fd9.bmp

as good as a job as you did....i sure as hell it doesnt look like that!!eeewwwwwyyy

[punkstarbassist101]

as good as a job as you did....i sure as hell it doesnt look like that!!eeewwwwwyyy

You call what I did a good job? lol, well anyway I sure do hope it looks a lot better than that

[neilio]

You call what I did a good job? lol, well anyway I sure do hope it looks a lot better than that

well....decent anyway, i do realise its a basic cut and paste procedure lol

[Tony]

I'll probably create a new diagram as soon as we can figure out WTF is going on with the base of the building, more details and at least some sort of elevation drawings (such as the City of Toronto Zoning Amendment Application)

[Roch5220]

Minor detail...why is the harbourfront covered by a wall of imaginary condo towers? They're cleary not there in reality... )

LOL - they are there. Havn't you ever been along the harbourfront?

[Ed007Toronto]

So what happens to the guy who originally bought a unit in 'First Toronto Tower'? Or the one who bought in 'Downtown Plaza (the first design or second)?". This is not the way to build a project or credibility.


First Toronto Tower was another developer. People who bought there got their money back. Those who bought in Downtown Plaza got their money back if they wanted or got a floor boost of up to ten floors. Units sizes also increased significantly, almost double in some case. DTP owners got this for no additional cost beyond the time they've had to wait. Assuming the building is completed and does even moderately well as a hotel the purchasers from the DTP days will make out like bandits.

[Mike in TO]

So what happens to the guy who originally bought a unit in 'First Toronto Tower'? Or the one who bought in 'Downtown Plaza (the first design or second)?". This is not the way to build a project or credibility.

The situations change in many projects all over the world (although Mr. Stinson does change his plans more often than most).

But that is why there is a certain degree of risk in purchasing from plans. In any project there is no gaurantee that the consumer will be 100% satisfied through buying in advance from blueprints and plans - if that's what you want then buy re-sale. However there are often some cost savings if you are willing to buy off plans and wait for the unit to be constructed.

Purchasers of First Toronto Tower were refunded as Ed mentioned, plus thier deposits are protected by the TARION Warranty Corporation (formerly Ontario New Home Warranty Program). The Warranty Corporation is essentially a program set up by builders that provides mandatory new home warranty protection for new home buyers across Ontario.

Ed, Since 1 King is a conversion and is part hotel/condo and Sapphire is also condo/hotel..... do you know if purchasers are protected by TARION?

[416]

Thanks for the info guys.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that there are very few developers out there who play this game of design change, floor plan change, etc. and play it out to the public.
When you buy a condo from Tridel for example, you know what your getting and when your moving in (give or take a couple months). For me, that's piece of mind. With Harry, it's all so wishy-washy you don't know what to expect next or where your money is going. That's not how you sell real estate.
I give him credit for pushing the envelope in Toronto but I really don't think Sapphire will ever get off the ground.

Something I found on a realtor's website talking about Sapphire:

"This developer's sole credentials with respect to Hotel Condos rests with 1 King West, a project that is materially overdue (by years!). Resting on this track record it is my position that this is a good development to stay away from."

[Mike in TO]

^ Tridel also has years and years of experience with a solid team and one of the best reputations for condo's in the GTA if not Canada.

Given their experience, team and the type of projects they build - yes you do know what you are going to get and it's a fairly safe investment.

Mr. Stinson does not have the experience or same type of team around him, although he is trying a much different type of project. His project is certainly much riskier, but if it is successful the rewards for those who invested will be far greater.

[partybits]

If your willing to take the risk, Stinson has huge potential. Look at King West, anyone who purchased those, while being impatient as hell by now, has made a killing in terms of an investment.
Same will go for Sapphire when it eventually gets built.

As for High Park Lofts, what's going on with that. Seems construction has paused for the last couple month? Is there a holdup of any kind?

[rapideye95]

Yeah i really want to know what's going on with Stinson...the man is clearly demonstrating that he is not ready for a huge project...he can barely get one king west going

[Ed007Toronto]

Yeah i really want to know what's going on with Stinson...the man is clearly demonstrating that he is not ready for a huge project...he can barely get one king west going

What's the problem with some of you? The building is up and they are finishing the interiors. It is a hotel after all so it has to be 100% finished (at least the occupied floors) before they can open. This isn't a condo where people move into the lower levels while construction continues in the lobby and upper floors. Kings Court still had the construction elevator active on the outside of the building, and had open upper floors, as owners were already moving in. 1 King will be ready for a June opening.

[SD]

Thanks for the info guys.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that there are very few developers out there who play this game of design change, floor plan change, etc. and play it out to the public.
When you buy a condo from Tridel for example, you know what your getting and when your moving in (give or take a couple months). For me, that's piece of mind. With Harry, it's all so wishy-washy you don't know what to expect next or where your money is going. That's not how you sell real estate.
I give him credit for pushing the envelope in Toronto but I really don't think Sapphire will ever get off the ground.

Something I found on a realtor's website talking about Sapphire:

"This developer's sole credentials with respect to Hotel Condos rests with 1 King West, a project that is materially overdue (by years!). Resting on this track record it is my position that this is a good development to stay away from."


I would have to agree somewhat. Changes in development are totally normal. But the degree to which they happen with Stinson, coupled with his amateuring marketing, puts a heavy strain on his credibility.

I hope Sapphire goes up, but he certainly needs to get his act together.

[partybits]

If he actually builds the Sapphire and High park to go with his existing collection of buildings, he will be considered one of the best devolopers in T.O history. If Sapphire falls apart, he will have no credibility and would probably not be able to build another condo.
He's a risk taker, can't blame him for that!

[valantino]

Dude, his existing collection equals to One King - three buildings no matter how tall does not make you "one of the greastest developers in T.O. history"

[416]

Agreed - and if it wasn't for Ed Mirvish, 1 King probably would of never gotten off the ground.

I got off at King Station today and realized that the hoarding over the stairs going up to the street has been up for over 8 years now. That's rediculous. Why isn't it coming down already?!

[partybits]

Was'nt he the developer to Chocolate Factory Lofts too?

[416]

No. Maybe your thinking of the Candy Factory Lofts? That was his but he lost that project and another developer completed it.

He doesn't have a very good track record...

[partybits]

In that case, I withdraw all my comments...lol. tks for the accurate info

[tsipaR]

Something I found on a realtor's website talking about Sapphire:

"This developer's sole credentials with respect to Hotel Condos rests with 1 King West, a project that is materially overdue (by years!). Resting on this track record it is my position that this is a good development to stay away from."

That hypocrite's name is Charles Laurie Hanes.

First read this:
http://www.simplycondos.com/condos/toronto/condos/A_G/downtownplaza.htm

Then read this:
http://www.simplycondos.com/condos/toronto/hotelcondos.htm

And while you're at it, try this:
http://www.simplycondos.com/condos/toronto/condos/numbered/5king.asp

To add insult to injury, word on the street is that Hanes has actually bought a few 1KW suites for himself.

[rise_against]

o well even if this building dosnt get offf the ground it gave trump a little scare and now its alittle taller thanks to stinson

[Ed007Toronto]

The Trump project was at the city and approved long before Stinson submitted his proposal to the city. The Trump increase would have nothing to do with Stinson though vice-versa is certainly possible and likely.