some surreal pix that look so real

http://photo.gznet.com/photos/1475308/1475308-1IQKKKS2AI.jpg

http://photo.gznet.com/photos/1475308/1475308-P8ardG6sLJ.jpg

http://photo.gznet.com/photos/1475308/1475308-eSa4kAanOh.jpg

I thought all skyscraper development was halted in the city? Did they lift the ban?

Anyway, those first two pics are amazing. Looks real beyond belief.

nice pics, ya they do look real especially the first one since it's darker. Well if SWFC is u/c then they should've lifted the ban.

What the moly is that thin supertall in the last picture? I haven't heard about that one.

Whoa, Jin mao is being dwarfed in the last picture:uh:

What the moly is that thin supertall in the last picture? I haven't heard about that one.

That is a very very old vision plan.
:)

the 2nd one is great!

I can't wait to see this in reality:eek:

http://photo.gznet.com/photos/1475308/1475308-eSa4kAanOh.jpg

That is a very very old vision plan.
:)
That explains it. I knew something was wrong considering I am from there and never heard about it. Is that tower the same as the proposed EuroOrthopolis?

Judging by this, Lujiazui will be the world's premier showcase of modern architecture, possibly more so than even Dubai.

I thought all skyscraper development was halted in the city? Did they lift the ban?


Haven't you notices all of the shanghai construction threads? Many have recent photos of construction, there seems to be quite a lot going on.

I thought all skyscraper development was halted in the city? Did they lift the ban?

From my understanding they discovered that land right there in those pics was sinking (it could have become a lake) from all the construction. Last I heard it was from water wells, causing a similar problem to what Venice, Italy is having. They must have figured out a solution because work on the Shanghai World Financial Center has resumed.

From my understanding they discovered that land right there in those pics was sinking (it could have become a lake) from all the construction. Last I heard it was from water wells, causing a similar problem to what Venice, Italy is having. They must have figured out a solution because work on the Shanghai World Financial Center has resumed.
They can pump water into the ground; I believe Taipei is doing that, but am not sure if Shanghai is too.

Shanghai just need to stop using more underground water. The whole situation was exaggerated I think to get public's attention. Actally all the tall buildings must have foundation on the rock bed, how could that sinking? tall buildings are not the problem, overusing underground water is the cause.

Since Shanghai locates by the entrance of one world largest river and the whole area is once rice fields full of water, it does not need pump back water, just need stop overuse underground water. I remember in shanghai if you just dig 2,3 meters, you can see underground water. So it's hard to build subways in Shanghai actually.

What's the average occupancy rate in Shanghai?????

im too impatient...... i want it built straight away

I think it's going to take the Chinese 30-50 years to acquire a good taste for truly fine architectures.

Buildings in Shanghai are among the ugliest buildings in the world. Same thing can be said of buildings in Beijing, Chong Ching, Shen Zhen and other cities in China.

What's worse ... the Chinese tend to crowd a bunch of highrises close together in a small area, thereby blocking each other's views. A sheer lack of common sense on top of bad taste.

some surreal pix that look so real

http://photo.gznet.com/photos/1475308/1475308-1IQKKKS2AI.jpg

http://photo.gznet.com/photos/1475308/1475308-P8ardG6sLJ.jpg

http://photo.gznet.com/photos/1475308/1475308-eSa4kAanOh.jpg

OH MY GOD

I find it shocking that the Chinese think of Shanghai's Oriental Pearl Tower as a symbol of the city's future.

Equally shocking ... it's coming true - Shanghai is now full of ugly buildings like the Oriental Pearl Tower.

haha, oh shanghai is just at that stage of buckwild accessorisation. Every legendary city has had her moment, and this is shanghai's turn at the ostentation parade. Whats interesting for me though are the industries of propaganda that accompany these cities in their best of days.

Rome with her tributes and edicts issued around the fora and her building of monuments all over her territory testified to, no declared, the far reaches of her influence. Florence indulged in superlative cathedral dome spans and thrilled effusive compliments from Renaissance masters that remain till today tributary to her past glory. New York had the legacy of Broadway and all the cheek of her bonafide divas and movie directors in claiming that higher heel of existence over the rest of the world. And Hong Kong had tragic movie stars and celebrities who hammered the rest of Asia into idolisation.

What does Shanghai have? Beyond the slogan parades due any city of this tourism age, does Shanghai have any form of media that amplifies her presence on the world map? And is she generating monuments that last beyond posterity? I don't think that there's any significant industry in Shanghai today that generates hype of "Chineseness" (or Shanghai-ness) on the world stage, besides the building industry that aims higher and denser each day, pummeling breaths of admiration from those who care to behold. But because this arena is dominated by other players like Dubai (ever rising) and Hong Kong (still rising), Shanghai isn't the king of any game in this era which is often pipped to be hers.

http://photo.gznet.com/photos/1475308/1475308-eSa4kAanOh.jpg

that looks cool, except for that wacky design in the far right... that looks horrible.

An Architect
You say all Shanghai's buildings are very ugly......please can you show us pictures of buildings which you consider to be beautiful.

too many supertalls bunched up on the right hand side...obscures the beauty of individual towers and makes a dense , but not elegant, skyline.

An Architect
You say all Shanghai's buildings are very ugly......please can you show us pictures of buildings which you consider to be beautiful.

i'd mention 3 already built - the bank of china towers in hong kong and shanghai, Jin Mao and the wafer-like building next to the bank of china shanghai tower.

the one yet to be built - the shanghai int'l finance center across the street from Jin Mao is superb, elegant masterpiece but the chinese have decided to add an ugly bridge structure at the top because some hot-headed chinese nationalists think that the building symbolizes the japanese flag.

too many supertalls bunched up on the right hand side...obscures the beauty of individual towers and makes a dense , but not elegant, skyline.

that's exactly right.

tall, well-designed buildings are meant to be seen, NOT hidden among other tall buildings. they must be spaced out and mixed with buildings of medium to low statue.

what's the point of spending money on a star architect for an expensive highrise design if it's going to be blocked from the view by other highrises? that's just common sense.

besides, such clustering of highrises decreases the property values of individual buildings in the area because of such mutual obstruction of views.

but then how can we expect Shanghai officials and Chinese in general to handle the more complex urban design issues when they have not only tolerated the ugly Oriental Pearl Tower - a failed design in my opinion even for an architecture freshman, they've embraced it. Their taste is simply too immature.

what is sad and embarrassing is that the Chinese are flashing these ugly buildings and assinine urban designs with pride, and sometimes even arrogance.

that's exactly right.

tall, well-designed buildings are meant to be seen, NOT hidden among other tall buildings. they must be spaced out and mixed with buildings of medium to low statue.

otherwise, what's the point of spending money on a star architect for an expensive highrise design just to be blocked from the view by other highrises? that's just common sense.

besides, such clustering of highrises decreases the property values of individual buildings in the area because of such mutual obstruction of views.

but if Shanghai officials not only tolerate but embrace the ugly Oriental Pearl Tower - a failed design in my opinion even for an architecture freshman, then their taste is simply too immature to handle the more complex urban design issues.

what is sad and embarrassing is that the Chinese are flashing these ugly buildings and assinine urban designs with pride, and sometimes even arrogance.
Thats nonsense i think...
Many Nice Buildings in NYC or Chicago also hidden due to density...

Your judge about Pearl tower is relative.

I still can see many building with nice and futuristic architecture in Shanghai besides many old and ugly as well...

Anything is possible at Shianghai...........

Thats nonsense i think...
Many Nice Buildings in NYC or Chicago also hidden due to density...

Your judge about Pearl tower is relative.

I still can see many building with nice and futuristic architecture in Shanghai besides many old and ugly as well...

Your reply clearly shows that you have no common sense.

My guess is you are a Chinese.

Let me teach you a thing or two:

1. Shanghai is different from NY. The latter is an established, crowded but nonetheless first-rate city. Shanghai Pudong was designed from scratch. OK?

2. If you say that my comments were nonsense, then it means "well-designed expensive buildings should be hidden behind other tall buildings (good or mediocre or bad)". Use your brain a little harder and explain your "logic" to us. (by the way, do you know what "logic" is?)

3. your statement "Your judge about Pearl tower is relative." makes absolutely no sense to me. I said the Oriental Pearl Tower was very ugly. I mean it. I know many Chinese think highly of the ugly tower. That's why I said that many Chinese had bad taste for architecture. (actually the Chinese have bad taste for a lot of things ... music, performing arts like stupid "dragon dance", "lion dance", "kung fu movies" ... etc etc.

4. Even China's city and provincial government officials have increasingly turned to Western architects to design their major landmark projects. After all, it doesn't take a genius to tell an assinine Chinese design from an elegant Western design. You should learn from your government officials in this regard.

5. Get rid of your nationalistic passion when discussing arts, architecture, music or the likes with others.

6. Stop using the childish "he did it too" defense to justify incompetent planning. Grow up and think like an adult.

Personally I don't like Shanghai, except for the oriental tower and the International Financial Centre which has been proposed.
I don't like cities which are too dense, which makes the view pretty boring.

To an architect.
Please show your respect to other culture. I'm not being a hot-headed nationalist because I'm Chinese but not PRChinese.
It's just your personal point of view to say something's ugly, and it's always relative. Nobody has to adjust to your opinion on whether something's ugly or not.
I don't like the boring highrises in Shanghai, but it's not absolute. If somebody says it looks beautiful, that's totally fine.

Shanghai is not as crowded as u saw from the pix other than Najing Rd. (personally i dont like NJ Rd.) maybe SH is too dense for any other city and i am wrong because i am used to living in SH.

To an architect.
Please show your respect to other culture. I'm not being a hot-headed nationalist because I'm Chinese but not PRChinese.
It's just your personal point of view to say something's ugly, and it's always relative. Nobody has to adjust to your opinion on whether something's ugly or not.
I don't like the boring highrises in Shanghai, but it's not absolute. If somebody says it looks beautiful, that's totally fine.

Don't make groundless accusations. How was I disrespectful to other culture??????? I don't care whether you are Chinese or not. And I seriously suggest that you cut out this "relative vs absolute" nonsense. I know you were thinking in Chinese and trying to translate the ideas into English. But you failed. First you don't have a clear understanding of definitions and usage of "relative" & "absolute"; second you failed to see that you're imposing your views on me. You are free to disagree with my comments or judgement. No need for the nonsensical spin about "relative" and "absolute".

It's a virtual consensus among Western elite architects and top overseas Chinese architects (e.g. IM Pei) that the Chinese (mainland, taiwan, HK) have a rather immature taste (to put it respectfully) when it comes to fine architectures, to say the least.

That's a fact. (but you are free to disagree with facts.)

In fact, you are free to hold the opinion that only fat women over 400 pounds should be supermodels. You don't have to agree with the rest of the world. Do I care about your "relative"/"absolute" arguments behind your decision? NOT ONE BIT!

Don't make groundless accusations. How was I disrespectful to other culture??????? I don't care whether you are Chinese or not. And I seriously suggest that you cut out this "relative vs absolute" nonsense. I know you were thinking in Chinese and trying to translate the ideas into English. But you failed. First you don't have a clear understanding of definitions and usage of "relative" & "absolute"; second you failed to see that you're imposing your views on me. You are free to disagree with my comments or judgement. No need for the nonsensical spin about "relative" and "absolute".

It's a virtual consensus among Western elite architects and top overseas Chinese architects (e.g. IM Pei) that the Chinese (mainland, taiwan, HK) have a rather immature taste (to put it respectfully) when it comes to fine architectures, to say the least.

That's a fact. (but you are free to disagree with facts.)

In fact, you are free to hold the opinion that only fat women over 400 pounds should be supermodels. You don't have to agree with the rest of the world. Do I care about your "relative"/"absolute" arguments behind your decision? NOT ONE BIT!
Whatever. You don't care, then I'll shut it up. After all, English isn't my first language, I surely can't compete with you on that.
It seems you just don't want to be nice.
I don't like Chinese cities anyway. Maybe you are right that most Chinese don't have a good taste on fine architectures.

Don't make groundless accusations. How was I disrespectful to other culture??????? I don't care whether you are Chinese or not. And I seriously suggest that you cut out this "relative vs absolute" nonsense. I know you were thinking in Chinese and trying to translate the ideas into English. But you failed. First you don't have a clear understanding of definitions and usage of "relative" & "absolute"; second you failed to see that you're imposing your views on me. You are free to disagree with my comments or judgement. No need for the nonsensical spin about "relative" and "absolute".

It's a virtual consensus among Western elite architects and top overseas Chinese architects (e.g. IM Pei) that the Chinese (mainland, taiwan, HK) have a rather immature taste (to put it respectfully) when it comes to fine architectures, to say the least.

That's a fact. (but you are free to disagree with facts.)

In fact, you are free to hold the opinion that only fat women over 400 pounds should be supermodels. You don't have to agree with the rest of the world. Do I care about your "relative"/"absolute" arguments behind your decision? NOT ONE BIT!

Could you be full of any more shit? Taste is relative, saying anything else is complete crap. Do you know why these buildings get built? Because they appeal to the Chinese elite, and to the majority of Chinese, in China (The opinions of a few western educated/indoctrinated expats cannot be counted). If you actually go to Shanghai and ask the people there about their "tasteless architecture" they generally like it, that is why it gets built (amazing that leap of logic isn't it?).

Now for the rubbish about the buildings being "hidden behind each other"; This is simply not true. From certain angles buildings will obscure other buildings (this occurs in every city around the world) Your whole basis for arguing this point is a render from one angle, which is a fairly weak basis to build and argument on. If you actually look at the plan of Pudong, there is quite a lot of space between the super talls, and from most angles they are all clearly visible and no more obscured than what would be expected in a city of that density.

You also have the nerve to question why someone may have construed your ramblings as being disrespectful to the Chinese culture after stating:

That's why I said that many Chinese had bad taste for architecture. (actually the Chinese have bad taste for a lot of things ... music, performing arts like stupid "dragon dance", "lion dance", "kung fu movies" ... etc etc.

If you still can't see how this is disrespectful let me write up and example that you may be able to follow:

Actually the Europeans have a bad taste for a lot of things ... music, performing arts like stupid "Shakespearean theatre,” “ballet”, “romantic period music” … etc etc

Your comment about getting rid of nationalistic passion when discussing art is truly incredible. Some of the greatest music, art and architecture in the world was (and still is) created as a reflection on or as a result of nationalistic passion, designed specifically to invoke nationalistic passion and to approach this work without considering this would be the hight of ignorance.

Finally, please try and refrain from using contradictory arguments within the same post. I think you should get in the habit of makings at least 10 posts before contradicting yourself, it makes you look less stupid. Let me show you where you have done this:

“It's a virtual consensus among Western elite architects and top overseas Chinese architects (e.g. IM Pei) that the Chinese (mainland, taiwan, HK) have a rather immature taste (to put it respectfully) when it comes to fine architectures, to say the least.”

Now, here you are saying that the views of a few “elite architects” reflect the truth when it comes to architectural taste, and that the majority, the Chinese (including not only the main land but taiwan and HK!) are wrong. One sentence later however:

“In fact, you are free to hold the opinion that only fat women over 400 pounds should be supermodels. You don't have to agree with the rest of the world.”

Here you are using an example of a minority being wrong, in thinking that 400 pound women should be super models, because they do not agree with the majority, the rest of the world.

Now look, If you dislike Chinese architecture, art and culture, then I suggest you do not comment on it until you at least have some understanding of it, because clearly you have very little.

To borrow a leaf from your book: I know you were thinking from a western perspective and trying to ‘translate’ those ideas to use in your analysis of Chinese culture/architecture. But you failed. First you don't have a clear understanding of Chinese “culture” and “society”; second you failed to see that you're imposing your views on me.

Those are fantastic visuals. Cant wait to see some of it for real :)

JAKJ, I can summarize your post in two letters: B.S.

I don't want to waste too much time on a complete idiot like you. It's not my job to enlighten Chinese numbskulls who have been under prolonged nationalist indoctrination and who are suffering from serious inferiority complex. You mainland Chinese seem to have an obsession with this "relative"/"absolute" rubbish argument.

I don't like Chinese architecture, traditional or contemporary. But I believe I'm free to express my opinion in this forum. This is not China. I suggest you return to China if you don't believe in Western values. Why did you study English in the first place? LOL.

Obviously there are still Chinese (even those supposedly "educated" ones) who haven't learned the lesson the British taught them in the late 1800's.

Who do you think you are anyway? Someone bigger than I.M. Pei?

hahahahahahaha

sorry, as far as I'm concerned, you are a complete moron.

It seems you just don't want to be nice.
I don't like Chinese cities anyway. Maybe you are right that most Chinese don't have a good taste on fine architectures.

I tend to present my point of view or argument as is - unsweetened.

But we do have something in common - our views about Chinese cities and the poor aesthetics of their architectures.

I believe some senior Chinese government officials are beginning to see that their local architects have been erecting garbage monuments and polluting their city skylines. That's probably why American and European architects are becoming so popular in China despite the much higher fees they charge.

lol you take every chance to attack china and chinese seems to me you have inferiority complex.

take care bro.

It seems to me that an_architect has difficulty grasping the elementary notions of value relativity. When you finish becoming an architect you will no doubt understand that social and cultural sensitivity are essential in designing spaces and experiences that constitutes a reality for people.

Perhaps you're just a little unclear, perhaps you are many of the words you have called others, such as 'moron' or 'numbskulls'. I'm almost certain other posters will make their own mind up.

You guessed that the other user was 'a chinese'! Without even beginning to deconstruct your grammar I think I can guess that you are a Yank!

Please grow some respect and common decency and then critique others, you loser.

I love the third one. You could give some 5 of them to São Paulo, couldn't you?!

I think Shanghai's skyline has too many variety of buildings that won't look great together but i guess it was built for density not art..........

Your reply clearly shows that you have no common sense.

My guess is you are a Chinese.

Let me teach you a thing or two:
Ha ha ha ha..... you become funnier and funnier....
Just because I do not agree with your reason then you judge me that I am chinese? and from what I observe you always accuse other ppl as chinese just bcs they dont agree with your opinion about everything related to china.

Your guess is totally wrong - I am not chinese - ... and now you show your self that your mind and opinion is not based on logic or common sense as your claim but only based on prejudice and feeling.....



1. Shanghai is different from NY. The latter is an established, crowded but nonetheless first-rate city. Shanghai Pudong was designed from scratch. OK?

U said that shanghai arc is the ugliest bcs they are hidden. Now you say that its not applied to NYC because NYC is established, crowded, & first rate city (which sound to me as a silly reason :lol: from an architect).

Now explain: why being the "first rate city-crowded-established" make hidden building arch in NYC become not uggliest?? while hidden buildings in Shanghai which is designed from scratch is uggliest??

Pls dont ad more funny argument - just give us reasonable argument...


2. If you say that my comments were nonsense, then it means "well-designed expensive buildings should be hidden behind other tall buildings (good or mediocre or bad)". Use your brain a little harder and explain your "logic" to us. (by the way, do you know what "logic" is?)

:lol: your logic is obviously fatally wrong..!
I never claim that hidden buildings make its architecture become good!! silly boy...

I only do not see the logic behind your statement that Shanghai building architectures is the ugliest just because they are hidden... (pls reffer back to your opinion).

You did not give reason why shanghai bld architecture are the ugliest except your nonsense reason that they are ugly because they are hidden!! (remember?)

I agree with many ppls statement that being hidden makes beauty of building's architecture become covered or unseen; but It is very silly to say that being hidden make an architecture of a building become very ugly...! moreover if it come out from mouth of an architect.

I wonder what kind of logic that u use. esp as you claim yourself as an architect...


3. your statement "Your judge about Pearl tower is relative." makes absolutely no sense to me. I said the Oriental Pearl Tower was very ugly. I mean it. I know many Chinese think highly of the ugly tower. That's why I said that many Chinese had bad taste for architecture. (actually the Chinese have bad taste for a lot of things ... music, performing arts like stupid "dragon dance", "lion dance", "kung fu movies" ... etc etc.

But why??? why oriental pearl tower is very ugly..? give us reason...
We dont need your only blind claim that this one is very ugly and that one is very beautiful... we need REASON behind your claim. Especially as you claim yourself an architect.

Other wise you only show your self as a nonsense ps (using your logic I dare to say that you anti china?)

Remember somebody in this forum has ask you "what kind of building that you consider good architecture" and why... => you never respond to his question...

(btw: have u ever heard in your class that "taste" is subjective..??)



4. Even China's city and provincial government officials have increasingly turned to Western architects to design their major landmark projects. After all, it doesn't take a genius to tell an assinine Chinese design from an elegant Western design. You should learn from your government officials in this regard.

5. Get rid of your nationalistic passion when discussing arts, architecture, music or the likes with others.

6. Stop using the childish "he did it too" defense to justify incompetent planning. Grow up and think like an adult.
Ha ha ha ha....
those argument has nothing to do with my question or with your reason why shanghai bld arch is the ugliest. Those only shows that you are a funboy who has antipaty with china arch or hurt heart bcs of china.

I do not say that chinese architecture is better than western, and I never say that chinese architecture is very good as well. I only wonder how you do claim that shanghai bld arc is the ugliest, and laugh at your reason that being hidden make the architecture become ugly...

It seems to me that an_architect has difficulty grasping the elementary notions of value relativity. When you finish becoming an architect you will no doubt understand that social and cultural sensitivity are essential in designing spaces and experiences that constitutes a reality for people.

Perhaps you're just a little unclear, perhaps you are many of the words you have called others, such as 'moron' or 'numbskulls'. I'm almost certain other posters will make their own mind up.

You guessed that the other user was 'a chinese'! Without even beginning to deconstruct your grammar I think I can guess that you are a Yank!

Please grow some respect and common decency and then critique others, you loser.


Hahahahahahahahaah! Another idiot obsessed with "relative" BS is here. LOL!!!!!! As I've told the other idiot, I don't waste my time on idiots like you.

Suffice to say that you are clueless and your post is worthless.

Why don't you moron grow some IQ, common decency and respect before you critique others! LOL!

IJKT123, sorry I didn't read your post beyond the 2nd line.

I don't waste my time on brainless idiots like you.

I'll repeat my assessment of Shanghai's buildings - well over 90% of them are P.O.S. And the clustering of ultra-high "designer" buildings in a small area indicates a lack of basic urban planning knowledge and common sense. Chinese architects have demonstrated thru their very works that they are incompetent (kindergarten-grade by Western standards).

STOP fighting, men

No war No war
http://www.csonline.com.cn/img/2003-04/01/news_03_0401_22.jpg

IJKT123, sorry I didn't read your post beyond the 2nd line.

I don't waste my time on brainless idiots like you.

I'll repeat my assessment of Shanghai's buildings - well over 90% of them are P.O.S. And the clustering of ultra-high "designer" buildings in a small area indicates a lack of basic urban planning knowledge and common sense. Chinese local architects have demonstrated thru their very works that they are incompetent (i.e. kindergarten-grade by Western standards).


those buildings are not designed by chinese architects.

dont act like a coward, if you have a problem with chinese, say it out loud.

(Fake) Architect, until now you fail to assume your responsibility with your opinion, as you not yet able to give us the requested reason for your false argument. So far you only post your blind and groudnless opinion...but fail to respond with questions that questioning the reason behind your blind opinion....


IJKT123, sorry I didn't read your post beyond the 2nd line.

I don't waste my time on brainless idiots like you.
More precisely: please do not waste other people's time with your idiotic and baseless statements.


I'll repeat my assessment of Shanghai's buildings - well over 90% of them are P.O.S. And the clustering of ultra-high "designer" buildings in a small area indicates a lack of basic urban planning knowledge and common sense. Chinese local architects have demonstrated thru their very works that they are incompetent (i.e. kindergarten-grade by Western standards).
U may boasting your nonsense opinion - but none will buy so far you cant provide logic reason.

:cheers:

the only thing i am unhappy about is that SWFC is taller than JIn Mao, it looks really weird, hope buildings taller than SWFC will be built to cover this problem.

我个人认为东方明珠放在陆家嘴那里不太协调。。。其他的都挺不错

...You mainland Chinese seem to have an obsession with this "relative"/"absolute" rubbish argument...
I already said I'M NOT A MAINLAND CHINESE you idiot!!><

我个人认为东方明珠放在陆家嘴那里不太协调。。。其他的都挺不错
Personally I would prefer the O'Tower or Jinmao to be the talliest building in Pudong...I like the International Financial Centre but I think it'd be better to put it somewhere else...

Hahahahahahahahaah! Another idiot obsessed with "relative" BS is here. LOL!!!!!! As I've told the other idiot, I don't waste my time on idiots like you.

Suffice to say that you are clueless and your post is worthless.

Why don't you moron grow some IQ, common decency and respect before you critique others! LOL!

Why don't you actually try and rationalise your arguments instead of just calling people names. Grow up.

those buildings are not designed by chinese architects.

dont act like a coward, if you have a problem with chinese, say it out loud.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

you dumbass! you mean to tell me that Western architects designed the 90% of the buildings in Shanghai? where did China find the money to pay the fees? the xerox machines?

hahahahahahahahahaha

Let me clue you in you idiot, there are even buildings falsely advertised as Western designs when they were actually designed by the incompetent, tasteless local Chinese!!

Shameless piracy of reputation and names!!

IJKT123,

I suggest you go back to China and repeat secondary school a few more times. Pay special attention in Math classes so that you can pick up some REAL sense of Logic. You also need to pick up some basic English reading comprehension skills and basic English writing skills. Right now your English is bad that it's almost unintelligible. And your reasoning skills are non-existent. I suspect I can train monkeys to argue better than you do. LOL!

IJKT123,

I suggest you go back to China and repeat secondary school a few more times. Pay special attention in Math classes so that you can pick up some REAL sense of Logic. You also need to pick up some basic English reading comprehension skills and basic English writing skills. Right now your English is bad that it's almost unintelligible. And your reasoning skills are non-existent. I suspect I can train monkeys to argue better than you do. LOL!
Allow me to remind you that he said he wasn't Chinese...= =

Allow me to remind you that he said he wasn't Chinese...= =

I think he is a mainland Chinese who doesn't want to admit that he is Chinese. He might be in Australia, Britain, Canada for "study". But I believe he's Chinese.

Personally I would prefer the O'Tower or Jinmao to be the talliest building in Pudong...I like the International Financial Centre but I think it'd be better to put it somewhere else...

thats what I mentioned before, I didnt revolt against OPT itself, just feel it is not assorted with Pudong's buildings. Moreover, SFC is one of my favorite skyscrapers. It cant be built in any other place except Pudong because of its height.

the only thing i am unhappy about is that SWFC is taller than JIn Mao, it looks really weird, hope buildings taller than SWFC will be built to cover this problem.

Hahahahahahahaha!!!!

Thank you for providing us with yet another piece of evidence for your stupidity and ignorance!!

I dont care what anyone says this skyline is one of the best.


http://www.worldcityphotos.org/China/CHN-Shanghai-webshotskstonecop1.jpg
CHN-Shanghai-webshotskstonecop1

http://zhongguohenda.online.fr/html/images/Shanghai/shanghai.jpg

if you a China basher,start a thread of your own~

dont ruin my thread!

http://zhongguohenda.online.fr/html/images/Shanghai/shanghai.jpg

Thanks for the picture! It's old but the clowning bad taste of the Chinese that it illustrates is still valid.

Look at those stupid flags. Actually they are not even flags, merely giant colored "diapers". And the colors suck!

Obviously the Chinese think that they are "nice" "decorations". They put up these stupid flags on almost every construction site - be it a building, a railroad section, a highway section, a square, ... even old or ancient buildings!!

By the way, it seems that the Chinese only know 6 colors - red, blue, green, yellow, orange and pink! And they always use the most garish hues.

Did you know that the Chinese routinely use girlish pink for the exterior of their residential towers?

LOL

if you a China basher,start a thread of your own~

dont ruin my thread!

neon, get a clue. There are no "China bashers" here.

The subject has always been architecture.

If you are so intolerant of opposite opinions or are suffering from a mean case of inferiority complex, I recommend you stop coming here.

Thanks for the picture! It's old but the clowning bad taste of the Chinese that it illustrates is still valid.

Look at those stupid flags. Actually they are not even flags, merely colored "diapers". And the colors suck!

Obviously the Chinese think that they are "nice" "decorations". They put up these stupid flags on almost every construction site - bet it a building, a railroad section, a highway section, a square, ... even old or ancient buildings!!

By the way, it seems that the Chinese only know 6 colors - red, blue, green, yellow, orange and pink! And they always use the most garish hues.

Did you know that the Chinese routinely use girlish pink for the exterior of their residential towers?

LOL



Interesting........How old are you, buddy?
Maybe you should let your parents know before you get on the internet. There are alot of harmful things on here that are not ment for the eyes of children. Not meaning to be intruding, just worried. It is for your own good, know what I mean.

Interesting........How old are you, buddy?
Maybe you should let your parents know before you get on the internet. There are alot of harmful things on here that are not ment for the eyes of children. Not meaning to be intruding, just worried. It is for your own good, know what I mean.

too lame, kid! LOL. try again.

Thanks for the picture! It's old but the clowning bad taste of the Chinese that it illustrates is still valid.

Look at those stupid flags. Actually they are not even flags, merely giant colored "diapers". And the colors suck!

Obviously the Chinese think that they are "nice" "decorations". They put up these stupid flags on almost every construction site - be it a building, a railroad section, a highway section, a square, ... even old or ancient buildings!!

By the way, it seems that the Chinese only know 6 colors - red, blue, green, yellow, orange and pink! And they always use the most garish hues.

Did you know that the Chinese routinely use girlish pink for the exterior of their residential towers?

LOL

The US did the same thing with flags of every color during the 80s in places and it got phased out.

The same will happen to China, as the general population gets wealthier and more educated, you will have more refined sensibilities, more Chinese architects than Western designs, less rainbow flags, etc.

Chinese culture has always been colorful. I dunno what's wrong with that. Europe in the past paid buckets of gold for silk, porcelien, carvings. You can find alot of Chinese art and interior decor inside of homes of many high-class Americans and European royalty.

You mainland Chinese seem to have an obsession with this "relative"/"absolute" rubbish argument.

I don't like Chinese architecture, traditional or contemporary. But I believe I'm free to express my opinion in this forum. This is not China. I suggest you return to China if you don't believe in Western values. Why did you study English in the first place? LOL.



relativism is a Western value and school of thought.

That all cultures and people are precious and valuable.

Hahahahahahahahaah! Another idiot obsessed with "relative" BS is here. LOL!!!!!! As I've told the other idiot, I don't waste my time on idiots like you.

Suffice to say that you are clueless and your post is worthless.

Why don't you moron grow some IQ, common decency and respect before you critique others! LOL!

Wow, who thought an innocent thread like this would turn so sour so soon. Just shows how immature some people can be on the Internet. an_architect (or should we say wannabe_Freshman_doesn't_even_have_a_degree_in_architecture_architect) where abouts are you from? I'm sure that alot of the forumers here would like to know.

Personally, as I've been to a number of cities on the Mainland, I have seen some examples of poor architecture and some absolute stunners. The reason why some people tend to bash Chinese architecture may be that there just is such a large pool of tall/large buidings to choose from. No city in the western world can possibly challenge the number of buildings completed, under construction, and proposed in cities across China.

I also feel that as Chinese cities develop further, so will the quality of the buildings. The funny thing about forums such as this one (which is basically an exchange of ideas and opinions) is that it only takes one moron to ruin a perfectly good discussion. Now, why don't we all just ignore an_architect as he/she/it seems to have social issues and continue discussing Shanghai's imminent rise.

Wow, who thought an innocent thread like this would turn so sour so soon. Just shows how immature some people can be on the Internet. an_architect (or should we say wannabe_Freshman_doesn't_even_have_a_degree_in_architecture_architect) where abouts are you from? I'm sure that alot of the forumers here would like to know.

Personally, as I've been to a number of cities on the Mainland, I have seen some examples of poor architecture and some absolute stunners. The reason why some people tend to bash Chinese architecture may be that there just is such a large pool of tall/large buidings to choose from. No city in the western world can possibly challenge the number of buildings completed, under construction, and proposed in cities across China.

I also feel that as Chinese cities develop further, so will the quality of the buildings. The funny thing about forums such as this one (which is basically an exchange of ideas and opinions) is that it only takes one moron to ruin a perfectly good discussion. Now, why don't we all just ignore an_architect as he/she/it seems to have social issues and continue discussing Shanghai's imminent rise.




AMEN to that.......!!!!!

Pookgai,

Are you a Cantonese Pookgai or a Shanghaiese Pookgai?

LOL.

This is not a place for Pookgai's. I recommend that you grow some IQ, common decency and respect before you critique others.

You will utterly fail as an architect if you cannot grasp other aesethics besides your own.

an architect, yes you have made valid points but you take things a little too far with your condecending attitude.

relax dude, have some respect cos its ok to be on the other side of a computer screen but i dont think you would say the stuff to these chinese guys faces?

where u from anyway, could you give us an example of fine urban and architectial planning from your side of the world

Forum arguements are stupid. Stop now and save everyone from the horror.

Yeah a lot of Chinese have bad taste though. I am Chinese, I know.

IJKT123,

I suggest you go back to China and repeat secondary school a few more times. Pay special attention in Math classes so that you can pick up some REAL sense of Logic. You also need to pick up some basic English reading comprehension skills and basic English writing skills.

Bla..bla..bla..bla..bla.....

I realize u are shamed due to inability to defend your fatal idiotic & blind opinions.... every body in this forum can see that!

Until now we are still waiting your argument to defend your fatal opinions regarding building design taste - as a matter fact till now you are speechless.....except throwing childish statement like the above.

Dont u realize with your error logic - poor knowledge and - mannerless behaviour - u yourself are humiliating western civilization in this forum...

Right now your English is bad that it's almost unintelligible.
I know I wrote with bad english like you did... but i dont need to bother to correct the writing as I realized I only deal with stupid guy.


I suspect I can train monkeys to argue better than you do. LOL!
Even your manner and attitude is not better than monkey's
That explain why u behave like a monkey in this forum...

And I am afraid (hopefully not) - "u yourself is a trained monkey?".... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Pookgai,

Are you a Cantonese Pookgai or a Shanghaiese Pookgai?

LOL.

This is not a place for Pookgai's. I recommend that you grow some IQ, common decency and respect before you critique others.
Maybe you have highest IQ - common decendy and respect - among monkeys.... hihihihihihih..... :lol:

I think he is a mainland Chinese who doesn't want to admit that he is Chinese. He might be in Australia, Britain, Canada for "study". But I believe he's Chinese.
Ha ha ha ha ha..... like I said: u always judge other ppls as chinese just because their opinion is contradictive to yours about anything related to china... - what a narrowminded person -

Now see .... your opinion is always groundless...

Pookgai,

Are you a Cantonese Pookgai or a Shanghaiese Pookgai?

LOL.

This is not a place for Pookgai's. I recommend that you grow some IQ, common decency and respect before you critique others.

Why do you assume that I am Cantonese or Shanghainese? lol. On the subject of idiocy........

BTW, is it just me or does this person copy and paste random insults... lol anyway, we really should try and ignore people like this.

what is manhattan??

I don´t know

Viva Pudong

IJKT123,

Too bad I don't have a monkey in my house, or I'd have let it argue with you. I'm not interested in talking with brainless boys like you. Judging by your idiotic rantings, I'm sure you are just a lonely social misfit.

You should thank me for spending time responding to your garbage posts.

Why do you have such a strong urge to deny that you are Chinese? Granted I'd be ashamed to be a Chinese if I were one; but why deny the obvious? inferiority complex? hahahahahaha

Forum arguements are stupid. Stop now and save everyone from the horror.

Yeah a lot of Chinese have bad taste though. I am Chinese, I know.

I wish there were more Chinese like you, who have the intelligence and courage to face the embarrassing reality.

IJKT123,

Too bad I don't have a monkey in my house, or I'd have let it argue with you. I'm not interested in talking with brainless boys like you. Judging by your idiotic rantings, I'm sure you are just a lonely social misfit.

You should thank me for spending time responding to your garbage posts.

Why do you have such a strong urge to deny that you are Chinese? Granted I'd be ashamed to be a Chinese if I were one; but why deny the obvious? inferiority complex? hahahahahaha

For someone who thinks they're so smat and intellectual, you sure don't act like it. You say you're not interested in talking to "brainless" boys? Then why the hell do you bother to reply. Oh and idiotic rantings? Please!!! Look at the beginning of this thread to the end. You'll find that you're the ONLY one who does that. BTW, I think you should thank me and other people who have responded to YOUR garbage posts.

Lastly, you say you're not a China basher? Everything you've said is against China. To be honest with you, if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all. IMO, I think you're the only lonely social misfit. What's the matter with you? Have you offended everyone that you've seen and now have to talk to in people that you can't? Get some manners and leave. Some people are just so stupid that they can't even realize that they're really the ones who need to take their own advice. I think I speak on behalf of everybody when I say please never talk again.

For someone who thinks they're so smat and intellectual, you sure don't act like it. You say you're not interested in talking to "brainless" boys? Then why the hell do you bother to reply. Oh and idiotic rantings? Please!!! Look at the beginning of this thread to the end. You'll find that you're the ONLY one who does that. BTW, I think you should thank me and other people who have responded to YOUR garbage posts.

Lastly, you say you're not a China basher? Everything you've said is against China. To be honest with you, if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all. IMO, I think you're the only lonely social misfit. What's the matter with you? Have you offended everyone that you've seen and now have to talk to in people that you can't? Get some manners and leave. Some people are just so stupid that they can't even realize that they're really the ones who need to take their own advice. I think I speak on behalf of everybody when I say please never talk again.

another semi-illiterate China boy is here. and a pretty typical lame copycat as well. hahahahahahaha.

"I offended everyone"??? No, monkey boy. I might have offended some uneducated, narrow-minded, stupid, nationalistic Chinese idiots. But not everyone. I know the Chinese take up one fifth of the world's population, but fortunately that's not 100% of the population.

What are you trying to say? the rest of the world must praise the ugly crap shoots rising in Chinese cities? or that if they make a factual statement that a particular building in Shanghai is ugly, then they are "against China"?

if that's the case, you should crawl back to your rat hole in China right now. Why stay in the U.S. or Canada or any other English speaking country?? In the civilized West, freedom of speech and expression is a fundamental value of society. Not even the government has the right to censor it, much less a brainless Chinese monkey boy like you.

The US did the same thing with flags of every color during the 80s in places and it got phased out.


Huh? Where? inside your house? Your claim is blatantly false. Show me some pictures if you can.


Chinese culture has always been colorful. I dunno what's wrong with that.

Now you are mixing up metaphors with simple physical descriptions. We are discussing architecture and the closely related issue of taste, not cultures. What do you mean "colorful"? like the sea of red during the murderous Cultural Revolution? or the pale faces of hunger during the starvation set off by the infamous Great Leap Forward? LOL!


Europe in the past paid buckets of gold for silk, porcelien, carvings. You can find alot of Chinese art and interior decor inside of homes of many high-class Americans and European royalty.

(1) That's irrelevant.

(2) The claim about royalty's interior decor is your speculation

(3) Some private antique collection for investment or personal enjoyment is not the same as widespread acceptance of Chinese interior decor as high-class. The latter never happened, not even in China.

Well an_architect, I'm sure you're right. I'm sure that the trash stagnant suburban sprawl of the United States is far superior to the developments in China.

Whatever.

The hilarious thing is that style, fashion and design really are relative and often linked to economic prowess. With the US economy in structural decline, and China set to become the next dominant force in the world, you really don't have your eye on the future.

"Freedom of speech in Western democracies" HA! Anyone knows that freedom has illusory qualities wherever you live. Difference is you believe you are free!

Some reading for you (it's not too difficult, you might try it one day)...

- Chomsky, N (2004) Hegemony or Survival : America's Quest for Global Dominance

- Marcuse (1964) One Dimensional Man

Both written by your fellow countrymen, and both removing any shred of legitimacy from the shite you have spouted in this otherwise good thread.

Here is some Chinese architecture for ya.............

http://www.bergoiata.org/fe/grande-muraille/Great%20Wall,%20Beijing,%20China.jpg

http://www.morrow-world.com/Great_Wall_of_China.jpg

ChristCharlton,

you don't know what you are talking about!

you don't even have the lucidity to stay on the topic at hand for one minute without straying off to totally irrelevant and unrelated issues.

one more time - we are talking about architecture, in particular, the ugly Chinese-designed buildings and poor urban planning in Shanghai.

But as a rebuttal to your geopolitical babble, China is rising because the West allowed it. In fact, the West is helping it. Without the massive economic and technological assistance from the West, China would still be NOTHING!

I wish you had been in China during the Cultural Revolution. maybe you would have learned something first hand instead of from the books.

neon, get a clue. There are no "China bashers" here.

The subject has always been architecture.

If you are so intolerant of opposite opinions or are suffering from a mean case of inferiority complex, I recommend you stop coming here.


If you are so intolerant of Chinese architecture,then dont call yourself an architect

sorry,we have No tolerance of a di*khead

skipperBill,

the Long Wall of China is better known for its historical and cultural significance rather than its architectural merit.

Architecturally speaking, China's Long Wall is an artistically and technologically inferior design employed on a massive scale. It was built using barbaric brute force. Tens of thousands (at least) of Chinese died in the process.

If you are so intolerant of Chinese architecture,then dont call yourself an architect

sorry,we have No tolerance of a di*khead

neon the idiot, saying that buildings in Shanghai are ugly does not constitute intolerance of Chinese architecture.

as for tolerating a di*khead, you sure have done a good job tolerating yourself and your fellow narrow-minded chinese idiots like Raymond_Tung88, JAKT and IJKT123.

I've long noticed that the Chinese are in general the most intolerant people in the world when it comes to dissenting opinions. AND that applies to Chinese dissidents, including OVERSEAS dissidents!!!!!

another semi-illiterate China boy is here. and a pretty typical lame copycat as well. hahahahahahaha.

"I offended everyone"??? No, monkey boy. I might have offended some uneducated, narrow-minded, stupid, nationalistic Chinese idiots. But not everyone. I know the Chinese take up one fifth of the world's population, but fortunately that's not 100% of the population.

What are you trying to say? the rest of the world must praise the ugly crap shoots rising in Chinese cities? or that if they make a factual statement that a particular building in Shanghai is ugly, then they are "against China"?

if that's the case, you should crawl back to your rat hole in China right now. Why stay in the U.S. or Canada or any other English speaking country?? In the civilized West, freedom of speech and expression is a fundamental value of society. Not even the government has the right to censor it, much less a brainless Chinese monkey boy like you.

Well, if that's your take on things, so be it. I'm not here to "change" you're opinion, but some people may find your comments rude and insulting. Its okay to have opinions, but please, if they're not good or particularly positive, then refrain from announcing them publicly. Anyways, most people like the skyline of Shanghai so I'm afraid you're the odd one out. But anyways, life goes on.

Yo Architect! if all the people here are brainless fools, why don't you hook up with Mensa or something? :weirdo:

guys, an_architect is obviously a really bored individual who ruins discussions to keep himself entertained, or he's just an extremely annoying attention seeker.

Whatever it is, just don't pay him any attention and he'll go away.

Well, if that's your take on things, so be it. I'm not here to "change" you're opinion, but some people may find your comments rude and insulting.


that's their problem. not mine. they should change their attitude to be more rational, objective and tolerant of different opinions.


Its okay to have opinions, but please, if they're not good or particularly positive, then refrain from announcing them publicly.


then there wouldn't be any real discussions would it? everybody just lavish fake, totally undeserving compliments on ugly buildings. how do people learn from mistakes if they all employ the traditional Chinese way of denial and avoidance?


Anyways, most people like the skyline of Shanghai so I'm afraid you're the odd one out. But anyways, life goes on.

most people? you mean like the majority of Chinese (mainland, taiwan, HK)? hahahahaha.

did you ask I.M. PEI or architects of his calibre? (I'm not even talking about elite Western architects.)

There are plenty of info available on the internet about what renowned world-class architects think of Beijing's and Shanghai's new buildings and skyline.

i'm done here.

Mr.Dick,do whatever you like to erect yourself,but do

remember this is not a porn site.its all you fault if the thread gets

locked.

that's their problem. not mine. they should change their attitude to be more rational, objective and tolerant of different opinions.

Maybe you should take your own advice on this one buddy... You sound really stuck up and ignorant but yea... you're right. its YOUR probelm NOT mine!

IJKT123,

Too bad I don't have a monkey in my house, or I'd have let it argue with you.
No need..! you already..... (a monkey)... hihihihih.. :lol:

I'm not interested in talking with brainless boys like you. Judging by your idiotic rantings, I'm sure you are just a lonely social misfit.

You should thank me for spending time responding to your garbage posts.
garbage 4 garbage...
u deserve garbage since all ur post are garbages.
how come u expect ppl to give you diamond as reply to ur garbage :nuts: ?
Have u forgot that u unable to answer my question...instead u only post insult & garbage?


Why do you have such a strong urge to deny that you are Chinese? Granted I'd be ashamed to be a Chinese if I were one; but why deny the obvious? inferiority complex? hahahahahaha

Because I am not - why do I have to admit what I am not - u silly ....

But actually I admire china and will be proud if I were a chinese....bcs 21th century will be a chinese century :cheers: why do they have to be ashamed in the era where they should be proud of themself??? silly....

I pitty your narrow mind. :bleh:

thx for all ya support mon amies but you see i just learned a new term from my korean friends here on SSC 姜太公 or great fisherman, i think this term is absolutely suitable for an "architect", he is just trying to stir things up and we are too easy to catch the bait, so let's stop here, enjoy life and let an "architect" have his moments.

peace

thx for all ya support mon amies but you see i just learned a new term from my korean friends here on SSC 姜太公 or great fisherman, i think this term is absolutely suitable for an "architect", he is just trying to stir things up and we are too easy to catch the bait, so let's stop here, enjoy life and let an "architect" have his moments.

peace
Thx sen, u are right!
I see most persons here are descend, knowledgable, well mannered and civilized - except that guy who try to act like an architect.

Thx sen, u are right!
I see most persons here are descend, knowledgable, well mannered and civilized - except that guy who try to act like an architect.

At the very least, he uses fairly good grammar and can spell. Architect is also not lazy enough to compact words to 'u' or 'thx'.

For me I love shanghai's skyline and if

http://photo.gznet.com/photos/1475308/1475308-eSa4kAanOh.jpg becomes true then HELL to NY's skyline :hahaha:

it looks great and futuristic.........
but its not very stylish..................
Pearl Tower for example.......

if this is reality, then it is a bit dull and an unplanned mistake

they r my neighbours, even then i dont understand y these chinese fight among themselves for something that no1 shall care of...
it is very nice 2 read their obixuous speeches and debates though

difficult to understand this debate on urbanisation of patriotic drama,

if this is reality, then it is a bit dull and an unplanned mistake
why?



they r my neighbours, even then i dont understand y these chinese fight among themselves for something that no1 shall care of...
it is very nice 2 read their obixuous speeches and debates though

difficult to understand this debate on urbanisation of patriotic drama,
if you followed this thread well - it would be easy to see what going on: its not a debate amongts chinese - its debate among many participants in one side vs an architect in the other side.

one more time - we are talking about architecture, in particular, the ugly Chinese-designed buildings and poor urban planning in Shanghai.



Pudong is meant to be a showcase skyline, not some interactive pedestrian wonderland. There are enough pedestrian areas in SH and China as a whole.

then there wouldn't be any real discussions would it? everybody just lavish fake, totally undeserving compliments on ugly buildings. how do people learn from mistakes if they all employ the traditional Chinese way of denial and avoidance?
umm... denial and avoidance? how about they actually like SH's skyline. I like SH's skyline, go to SH threads on the cityscape section and you'll see many flattering comments from Chinese forumers and Western forumers alike.


SH is like Las Vegas. Loud and ridiculous. I like it. If you want some Chinese refinement, look at Hong Kong.

Huh? Where? inside your house? Your claim is blatantly false. Show me some pictures if you can.



Now you are mixing up metaphors with simple physical descriptions. We are discussing architecture and the closely related issue of taste, not cultures. What do you mean "colorful"? like the sea of red during the murderous Cultural Revolution? or the pale faces of hunger during the starvation set off by the infamous Great Leap Forward? LOL!



(1) That's irrelevant.

(2) The claim about royalty's interior decor is your speculation

(3) Some private antique collection for investment or personal enjoyment is not the same as widespread acceptance of Chinese interior decor as high-class. The latter never happened, not even in China.

Are you saying there wasn't any tackiness in 80s America??

You were over generalizing Chinese culture. Speculation?? Visit European palaces and you'll find Chinese screens, vases, and dinnerware. That's why dinnerware is called China, because Europe wasn't able to replicate China's high quality porcelian for quite some time.

it looks great and futuristic.........
but its not very stylish..................
Pearl Tower for example.......
For me the Pudong's current and future building's architect is very stylish and futuristic compared to many buildings in Manhattan NYC which are mostly simple box style (eg: WTC - MedLife - etc). Only Pudong's buildings are not well coordinated and the placement is not too well organized compared to Manhattan skylines. That makes SH skylines not seem too harmonized if compared to NYC & Chicago skylines. But if we talk about style and design - I believe its hard to find Manhattan building to be comparable to Pudong's (such as Jinmao).

ChristCharlton,

you don't know what you are talking about!

you don't even have the lucidity to stay on the topic at hand for one minute without straying off to totally irrelevant and unrelated issues.

one more time - we are talking about architecture, in particular, the ugly Chinese-designed buildings and poor urban planning in Shanghai.

But as a rebuttal to your geopolitical babble, China is rising because the West allowed it. In fact, the West is helping it. Without the massive economic and technological assistance from the West, China would still be NOTHING!

I wish you had been in China during the Cultural Revolution. maybe you would have learned something first hand instead of from the books.

Dear Idiot architect,

Please explain why the West help china rising ?

Do you think US/Europe/Japan is willing and happy to see china growing to be their rival?

Use your brain to think that there is no freelunch for assistance - West need China because her market and low cost labour, as China need West for their technology. Western and Japanese companies need China if they still want to be competitive! thats the reason why western and Jap companies come to China! and its China's smartness to play her cards (market & diligent but cheap labour) to force them to give what she wants. It is China potential human resources that makes western come to China.

If West ever give technology to China - its not because their mercy - but simply because they MUST DO IT (read : be forced by China - to give up some technolgy to China) - because they need "access" to China resources (human/market/cheap labour/geographic position etc), otherwise they will suffer in competition - and China is quite clever to play this game.

Thats why Napoleon recognized China as a sleeping dragon which can shake the world when she awakes.

found this on a website about americas international DEBT


"In the year to Nov. 2004, the U.S. had a total merchandise trade deficit of $653.8 billion, while Japan & Germany scored a cumulative trade surplus of $325 billion($132+$193 bill). That's a whopping $979 billion worse performance for the U.S. in JUST ONE YEAR. In 2001, for the first time, China surpassed Japan as the country with the largest trade gap with the United States. America's deficit with China surged 95% in the next 3 years, reaching $162 billion and 26% of total US trade deficits in 2004."

in other words America could not survive without china, whereas china would be a hell of a lot better off without america

but as for shanghai.. its beautiful, cant wait to see more stuff rising

in other words America could not survive without china, whereas china would be a hell of a lot better off without america

Hahahahahahaha!

Your name fits you quite well - your intelligence is arguably slightly lower than that of a baby.

I don't know who is closer to monkey, you or our 9-year old babbling idiot IJKT123.

hahahaha

if this is reality, then it is a bit dull and an unplanned mistake

That's an understatement. Shanghai's urban design and rapidly rising "crap shoots" (ridiculously ugly buildings designed and built by incompetent, tasteless Chinese) is becoming a joke among Western architects. Some buildings are already falling apart due to incompetent design, inferior construction material and unethical workmanship. We in the West call it "city building with Chinese characteristics".

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

western "architects" like you?

no wonder...

to tell you the truth, i would be glad if they are designed by incompetent Chinese architects, take the SWFC for example, it is designed by a Japanese firm.

Pudong is meant to be a showcase skyline, not some interactive pedestrian wonderland. There are enough pedestrian areas in SH and China as a whole.


Indeed that's what Pudong has become - a showcase skyline for future architects what a combination of bad taste, ignorance, stupidity and bureacratic incompetence can produce - a blended mess of numerous inferior, ultra-ugly Chinese-designed buildings surrounding a few highrises of Western designs.

umm... denial and avoidance? how about they actually like SH's skyline. I like SH's skyline, go to SH threads on the cityscape section and you'll see many flattering comments from Chinese forumers and Western forumers alike.

No surprise there. That's why we are having a discussion about bad taste vs good taste. Did you know that there are people who love to eat rotten meat covered with maggots?

LOL

SH is like Las Vegas. Loud and ridiculous. I like it. If you want some Chinese refinement, look at Hong Kong.

There are very few truly fine architectures in Hong Kong (percentagewise). The newly erected highrise by the waterfront looks like a sex toy.

western "architects" like you?

no wonder...

to tell you the truth, i would be glad if they are designed by incompetent Chinese architects, take the SWFC for example, it is designed by a Japanese firm.

Which one is SWFC?

For your information, Japan is NOT considered a Western country. (It's common sense, don't you think?)

Japanese architects are in general rather mediocre artistically. They are much better than local Chinese architects, but not exactly comparable to American and European architects.

if you dont even know which building is which then what right do you have to talk **** about SH's skyline?

anyways thank you for your encouragement for calling those buildings Chinese designed, (which in fact are designed by Western architects not only from Japan). i firmly believe one day our own architects will design such beautiful buidlings, but at the moment they cant think outside the little box.

Are you saying there wasn't any tackiness in 80s America??

You were over generalizing Chinese culture. Speculation?? Visit European palaces and you'll find Chinese screens, vases, and dinnerware. That's why dinnerware is called China, because Europe wasn't able to replicate China's high quality porcelian for quite some time.

No I was not over-generalizing Chinese culture. I was merely commenting on Chinese lack of taste and artistic flare in architectures. (and in music - it's a torture to listen to traditional Chinese music.) So that's only two aspects of Chinese culture.

Oh yes, one more - their thievishness, as evidenced by their shameless widespread piracy of Western intellectual property rights.

if you dont even know which building is which then what right do you have to talk **** about SH's skyline?

anyways thank you for your encouragement for calling those buildings Chinese designed, (which in fact are designed by Western architects not only from Japan). i firmly believe one day our own architects will design such beautiful buidlings, but at the moment they cant think outside the little box.

No need for foul words, uncivilized Chinese dumbass!

I'm not interested in remembering the names of those stupid buildings, much less abbreviations.


Those ultra-ugly Chinese-designed buildings are nothing more than eyesores. Why would I care to know their names?? Only idiots like you would do that.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!

ok whatever i am done for today...seriously tro to get a job something...hope you can design some great buildings one day then you can talk about others.

good luck with your career.

found this on a website about americas international DEBT


"In the year to Nov. 2004, the U.S. had a total merchandise trade deficit of $653.8 billion, while Japan & Germany scored a cumulative trade surplus of $325 billion($132+$193 bill). That's a whopping $979 billion worse performance for the U.S. in JUST ONE YEAR. In 2001, for the first time, China surpassed Japan as the country with the largest trade gap with the United States. America's deficit with China surged 95% in the next 3 years, reaching $162 billion and 26% of total US trade deficits in 2004."

Hahahahahahahahahaha

What a brainless post that is!!

nezzybaby, when you reach 12, make sure you ask your parents to send you to a good high school and then a good college. (assuming you can get the grades to qualify.)

Then study the development of trade between the U.S. and the pathetic, backward, primitive China in the 1970's. It will probably take you a few years to thoroughly understand the whole picture.

Until then, you are just a clueless babbling moron like that pathetic childish monkey boy IJKT123.

IJKT123,

I'm not interested in training Chinese monkeys such as yourself. Please ask your cage keeper at the zoo. LOL

an architect vs the world

think this thread needs ending.

FYI im 22 and at one of the best universities in the country (imperial college), I dont know much about politics and economics, but you cant argue with the figures, and america is going to crash soon.

$7trillion dollars worth of debt isnt a good thing for a country, especially one that continues to spend like theres no problems.

"Oh yes, one more - their thievishness, as evidenced by their shameless widespread piracy of Western intellectual property rights."

because of course americans (having to assume your american, as you seem afraid to list where your from) never stole anything, if it wasnt for stealing all the best german scientists after the first world war, there would have been no space race. If it wasnt for the britains swept wing design americans would never have gone supersonic. And as for modern technology, i think we all know it comes from japan, and is manufactured in china.

but seriously why do you not like the design of these towers, SWFC is beautiful and i cant wait to see it built (FYI the one with the big hole). Jin Mao i believe is one of the best looking skyscrapers around today, and apart from the big peearl type thing i really dont see the problem.

but seriously why do you not like the design of these towers, SWFC is beautiful and i cant wait to see it built (FYI the one with the big hole). Jin Mao i believe is one of the best looking skyscrapers around today, and apart from the big peearl type thing i really dont see the problem.

If you are talking about the one with a big hole at the top, I believe I've said that I like it. I don't know the name of the building but I know it was designed by KPF, not some Japanese firm as the clueless poster Sen claimed yesterday. The building was to be financed by the Japanese, but the construction was delayed several times as a result of the financial crisis that swept the region in the late 1990's.

It's currently under construction. But the original clean, elegant design is to be ruined by a Chinese imposed "bridge", supposedly under the pressure from stupid, irrational local Chinese idiots due to the building's resemblance to the Japanese flag. Such bureaucratic meddling is rampant in China.

Jin Mao is an above-average design. I think the architects were too eager to flatter the Chinese by incorporating some elements of the stupid Chinese pagoda, which resulted in some aesthetic defects in the exterior.

Chinese pagodas and roof tops are aesthetically inferior and poorly suited to modern highrise platforms. It's one of the reasons I find the Chinese tasteless - they blindly apply their traditional, aesthetically inferior architectural styles to modern, large scale Western highrises for no good reason other than a misguided nationalistic urge to assert their "Chineseness". They would rather have a building that looks "Chinese" and therefore super-ugly than one that is elegant but "Western".

And this kind of childish Chinese thinking and taste is everywhere.

Taiwan's Taipei 101 is arguably the ugliest super-highrise in the world right now. It was designed by a local Chinese (Taiwanese) firm. Just like mainland Chinese, the tasteless Taiwanese wanted it tall. And like mainland Chinese architects, Taipei 101's designer wanted it to "symbolize" something, with "Chinese characteristics".

The result? A clowning failure that's become a joke in architectural circles. The "bamboo shoot" turns out to be worse than a crap shoot - at least a real crap shoot isn't tall enough to attract attention to itself.

LOL!!!!!!!!

Historical Chinese architecture is gorgeous.

anyways, an architect, what skylines do you like?

"Oh yes, one more - their thievishness, as evidenced by their shameless widespread piracy of Western intellectual property rights."

because of course americans (having to assume your american, as you seem afraid to list where your from) never stole anything, if it wasnt for stealing all the best german scientists after the first world war, there would have been no space race. If it wasnt for the britains swept wing design americans would never have gone supersonic. And as for modern technology, i think we all know it comes from japan, and is manufactured in china.

That's not stealing! Do you actually understand the definition of the word "stealing"? LOL

Germany was nothing more than a heap of ruins after WWII. There was no way German scientists could have done any serious reseach in the country. Besides Germany was the loser in WWII. The allies would not even let Germany keep its army. They certainly would never have allowed the Geman scientists to continue their work on sophisticated military applications such as rocketry.

Transferring German scientists to America was not "stealing". There had been no theft of intellectual property rights as opposed to what's currently happening across China.

You call it "transferring"???? LOL You sound as brainwashed as the Chinese. I wrote a paper on it. There was clearly alot of forcing going on.

an architect vs the world

nah, more like an architect with good taste vs a bunch of morons with bad taste. LOL


think this thread needs ending.

nope. It's good venue to put Chinese ignorance, stupidity and bad taste on display.

FYI im 22 and at one of the best universities in the country (imperial college), I dont know much about politics and economics, but you cant argue with the figures, and america is going to crash soon.

you got into Imperial College with an IQ of 22? LOL!!!
Do you hate Britain or the college so much that you have to engage in this kind of subtle defamation? LOL!!!!!

by the way, you contradicted yourself - you have no business predicting an economic crash if you know nothing about politics and economics.


$7trillion dollars worth of debt isnt a good thing for a country, especially one that continues to spend like theres no problems.

you mean like the kind of debt Britain had incurred right before WWI? LOL!!!!!!!!!

and what about swept wings and the constant pressure from america for england to pass on information about such projects without anything in return

Anyway, an architect, doesn't matter how u think about chinese skyline China will still rule the world in a few decades as they did in the pass.

Historical Chinese architecture is gorgeous.

anyways, an architect, what skylines do you like?

Historical Chinese architecture is crap.

There are many kinds of skylines that I like. None of which has "Chinese characteristics" or designed by the tasteless Chinese - nothing with shadows of pagoda or Chinese rooftops.

In short, I like skylines formed with elegant buildings under sound, sensible urban planning.

^ i think we need to agree its a matter of personal taste, i love such architecture, and would rather see a chinese skyscraper than a tall cuboid.

and what about swept wings and the constant pressure from america for england to pass on information about such projects without anything in return

I don't remember Britain having ever fully repaid America for the vast amount of economic and military aid it had received in WWII.

China is set to become the most visited nation beating France in the upcoming years.

Anyway, an architect, doesn't matter how u think about chinese skyline China will still rule the world in a few decades as they did in the pass.

Hahahaha! here's Kenwen - another uneducated, narrow-minded, ignorant and stupid Chinese numbskull!!

did you know that the U.S. military can incinerate China several times over right now without any fear of credible retaliation from the incompetent Chinese military?

Don't flatter yourself dumbass. Your monkey brain isn't good enough to earn you a decent living, much less to predict the future.

Go get some REAL education, you Chinese dumbass!!!!

I don't remember Britain having ever fully repaid America for the vast amount of economic and military aid it had received in WWII.

It was GIVEN to them, and they are paying back the loans even till now. Plus, they are helping us in Iraq right now. You're so embarassing, typical insular American :bash:

It was GIVEN to them, and they are paying back the loans even till now. Plus, they are helping us in Iraq right now. You're so embarassing, typical insular American :bash:

Are you delusional or something? First you claim it was given to them, in which case there would have been no need for them to repay America. But after a comma, you claim they are repaying the loans to this day!!

which is it? make up your mind (or do you actually have one?).

LOL!!!

Are you a cuban or a Brit?

You call it "transferring"???? LOL You sound as brainwashed as the Chinese. I wrote a paper on it. There was clearly alot of forcing going on.

Hahahahahahaahahaha.

I think it's you who's been brainwashed by (Cuban?) communist propaganda.

Who do you think you are to write a paper on behalf of German scientists?

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hahahahahahaahahaha.

I think it's you who's been brainwashed by (Cuban?) communist propaganda.

Who do you think you are to write a paper on behalf of German scientists?

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hahahaha, you weirdo. Dunno if you are aware of this, but university students write papers on many subjects and do something called research.

Are you delusional or something? First you claim it was given to them, in which case there would have been no need for them to repay America. But after a comma, you claim they are repaying the loans to this day!!

which is it? make up your mind (or do you actually have one?).

LOL!!!

Are you a cuban or a Brit?

War is complex child. UK was given money under the Marshall Plan, and also given loans which they are still paying back today.


Many things in this world don't fit your simpleton b&w perspective.

hahahaha, you weirdo. Dunno if you are aware of this, but university students write papers on many subjects and do something called research.

what? you are in college? LOL!!!! how did you get in?

"research" huh? I bet you're the type of "student" who writes papers like "if you run, your speed of movement will increase".

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

War is complex child. UK was given money under the Marshall Plan, and also given loans which they are still paying back today.


Many things in this world don't fit your simpleton b&w perspective.


Hahahahahahahaha. Don't flatter yourself kiddo.

I think you are better suited to waiting for your favorite ice cream truck. Well, let's call it "researching" your favorite ice cream truck. sounds better?

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:lol:

whoa, those are some pretty sorry replies

:lol:

whoa, those are some pretty sorry replies



I think you mis-spelled "sassy" as "sorry".

:lol: :lol:

An architect, you've spent numerous posts criticizing everything Chinese, from their architecture to every other aspect of their culture that you can think of. It seems that you believe the West is superior in every respect, a rather quaint colonialist notion that really doesn't suit an architect.

As an expert on world history, I'm sure you know that the Chinese civilization was preeminent on earth for most of its history. They were far more advanced than the West until the Ming Dynasty. Your criticism of modern Chinese architecture makes sense since China is a developing country and developing countries tend to have local architects who are more concerned with efficiency than elegant design. That being said, 99% of architecture in the West is uninspired.

I'm very surprised that you are an architect. Usually architects, being artists, are quite well-spoken and have very refined tastes and generally modern viewpoints. You seem to lack these qualities. Why don't you post some of your own work so we can see what good architecture looks like? Since you portray yourself as an architect of good taste, I'll assume that your works are inspired by the finest in Postmodern theory, oh except for that part of Postmodernism that references non-Western cultures.

I'll just end this post by providing a few masterpieces of Chinese architecture that inspired me when I visited them. Of course, I'm sure your own work is superior to it, so I can't wait to see it! I'm sure they'll convince me that I was wrong to like Asian architecture.

http://www.business.missouri.edu/zou/Pics/China/Gugong1.jpg
http://archweb.unl.edu/xiao_/Beijing_temple%20of%20heaven/Temple%20of%20Heaven_skyview.jpg

I'll go ahead and post another horrible relic of Chinese architecture: The Japanese Pagoda. Thank god we have architects like you who can surpass such awful buildings, with their stupid "purity of form."

http://a5.repetae.net/~frederik/japan-pictures/01-09-17-kyoto/003.toji/004.toji-pagoda-2.jpg

Hahahahahahaha!

Your name fits you quite well - your intelligence is arguably slightly lower than that of a baby.

I don't know who is closer to monkey, you or our 9-year old babbling idiot IJKT123.

hahahaha
Is that all you can response little child??

Can't provide any intelectual answer for all my question directed to u except those garbage??

All of your stupid baseless opinion has beed knocked out....


IJKT123,

I'm not interested in training Chinese monkeys such as yourself. Please ask your cage keeper at the zoo. LOL
Nobody wants a training from moron looser like you little child....
If your defect logic cannot respond my argumentations, then just admit it....

lets leave the child accusations for a while, im sure everybody in this discussion is passed puberty. lets not weaken our argument by sinking to his level.

Hihihihi..... architect clown... after acting as a stupid architect, now u try to act as an economist and military analyst? hihihihihi..... :lol: ...

Hahahaha! here's Kenwen - another uneducated, narrow-minded, ignorant and stupid Chinese numbskull!!

did you know that the U.S. military can incinerate China several times over right now without any fear of credible retaliation from the incompetent Chinese military?

and why US with fear of north korean nuke doesnt fear China nukes - stupid?

Are u so ignorant that never read in mag/newspaper that China missiles with nuke warhead launched both from mainland and submarine can reach US coast?

Historical Chinese architecture is crap.

There are many kinds of skylines that I like.
Like I said... most building in Pudong has better style than simply box style buildings in Manhattan....
Almost every body including western architects like Pudong's building style - while u dont. Its just like everybody can see that Supermodel Cindy Crawford is a sexy beautiful woman - while you are alone in this world to say a superfat lady with 400kg weight as a sexy model... LOL


None of which has "Chinese characteristics" or designed by the tasteless Chinese - nothing with shadows of pagoda or Chinese rooftops.
Thats simply because you hate china much... and its obvious in this forum...everybody can see and has declared that...


In short, I like skylines formed with elegant buildings under sound, sensible urban planning.
Like what...? let us know what kind of elegant building in your weird lonely world...

An architect, you've spent numerous posts criticizing everything Chinese, from their architecture to every other aspect of their culture that you can think of.

That's blatantly false. How can you expect me to take you seriously if you engage in this kind of random, groundless accusations?

It seems that you believe the West is superior in every respect, a rather quaint colonialist notion that really doesn't suit an architect.

Which school of logic did you employ to argue that "I believe the West is superior in every respect"? LOL

As an expert on world history, I'm sure you know that the Chinese civilization was preeminent on earth for most of its history. They were far more advanced than the West until the Ming Dynasty.

First, what makes you think that I'm an expert on world history? Second, what has Chinese ancient history (preeminent or not) got to do with the discussion at hand? If you are trying to argue that "If country A was preeminent in the past, then its ancient and/or modern architecture must be good or the best on earth", then I believe you've got a big task in showing us the logic behind it. You may start with precise definitions of "preeminent", "culture" (the scope and components) and all other key terms involved and then justify your claim thru a comparison with all other major cultures. Finally show us the logical steps you've taken to arrive at the conclusion.

Your criticism of modern Chinese architecture makes sense since China is a developing country and developing countries tend to have local architects who are more concerned with efficiency than elegant design.

That's a fallacious argument. Efficiency and elegance are NOT mutually exclusive. In fact, many Chinese buildings would have looked better simply by stripping away useless structures that not only constitute an unnecessary waste of construction materials but also a serious degradation of the buildings' aesthetics.

That being said, 99% of architecture in the West is uninspired.

(1) that's your personal opinion. (2) irrelevant to our discussion as they can be uninspired and still far better than Chinese designs.


I'm very surprised that you are an architect. Usually architects, being artists, are quite well-spoken and have very refined tastes and generally modern viewpoints. You seem to lack these qualities. Why don't you post some of your own work so we can see what good architecture looks like? Since you portray yourself as an architect of good taste, I'll assume that your works are inspired by the finest in Postmodern theory, oh except for that part of Postmodernism that references non-Western cultures.

Irrelevant.


I'll just end this post by providing a few masterpieces of Chinese architecture that inspired me when I visited them. Of course, I'm sure your own work is superior to it, so I can't wait to see it! I'm sure they'll convince me that I was wrong to like Asian architecture.

I'll go ahead and post another horrible relic of Chinese architecture: The Japanese Pagoda. Thank god we have architects like you who can surpass such awful buildings, with their stupid "purity of form."

Architecturally speaking, China's Forbidden City is rather mediocre. I know it's not a popular opinion and not many Western architects care to voice their honest opinions. But it's true. That's NOT to say that there's nothing good about it. The planning involved for such a grand structure was very complex and required sophisticated organizational skills. There is certain elegance to the Forbidden City when viewed as a whole, due to its use of only 3 colors - gold, red, and white. But if you examine the individual components closely, you'll find that they are rather simple and lack artistic sophistication. There are also some problems with scale and proportions, such as the size of the columns in relation to the building. Then there are issues of functionality, among many others.

As an imperial palace, its sense of grandeur lies only in its scale, NOT artistic design of individual component buildings - the essense of architecture.

Great pics. :)

lets leave the child accusations for a while, im sure everybody in this discussion is passed puberty. lets not weaken our argument by sinking to his level.

LOL. I'm not so sure about IJKT123. I seriously think he's not passed puberty yet.

But it's beside the point. We are talking about mental age and IQ.

IJKT123 has failed miserably in both departments.

You don't boost your credibility by reading and/or responding to that semi-illiterate adolescent idiot.

It's OK to play him for fun. But a discussion in architecture with him? LOL. Don't make me laugh.

LOL. I'm not so sure about IJKT123. I seriously think he's not passed puberty yet.

But it's beside the point. We are talking about mental age and IQ.

IJKT123 has failed miserably in both departments.

You don't boost your credibility by reading and/or responding to that semi-illiterate adolescent idiot.

It's OK to play him for fun. But a discussion in architecture with him? LOL. Don't make me laugh.
Nobody in this forum accused me that... it is you who is called having not passed puberty due to inferior logic - poor knowledge - and uncivilized manner...

Its obvious that you have failed to argue and become a looser...this forum is a place to argue with intelect, not for childish - idiotic and baseless accusations...

I know it is hard to admit yourself a looser.... but your inability to answer my question is evident...

Well... anyway I still can enjoy playing fun around your idiocy...

Architecturally speaking, China's Forbidden City is rather mediocre. I know it's not a popular opinion and not many Western architects care to voice their honest opinions. But it's true. That's NOT to say that there's nothing good about it. The planning involved for such a grand structure was very complex and required sophisticated organizational skills. There is certain elegance to the Forbidden City when viewed as a whole, due to its use of only 3 colors - gold, red, and white. But if you examine the individual components closely, you'll find that they are rather simple and lack artistic sophistication. There are also some problems with scale and proportions, such as the size of the columns in relation to the building. Then there are issues of functionality, among many others.

As an imperial palace, its sense of grandeur lies only in its scale, NOT artistic design of individual component buildings - the essense of architecture.

LOL, you speak as if you are the God of Architecture or something. Please, give me the Forbidden City over Buckingham Palace or Nieuweinstein (sp) anyday.


"There are also some problems with scale and proportions, such as the size of the columns in relation to the building."

Is this an unchallenged truth set in stone or something. hahahahaha

There is certain elegance to the Forbidden City when viewed as a whole, due to its use of only 3 colors - gold, red, and white. But if you examine the individual components closely, you'll find that they are rather simple and lack artistic sophistication

like the New York skyline

artistic design of individual component buildings - the essense of architecture. like the Shanghai skyline


The essense of architecture is to give a sense of Place! Something that the Forbidden City does profoundly!!!

Dear Loured,

Yeah as we know, we do not know yet what is an example of aestetic or artistic building from his own world - he never explain - never define - nor never show what example of building with beautiful design in his concept....we just heard him saying: its good/its ugly - based on nothing....(except his dislike about things related to china - from economic - culture - society - people - to art which he expressed many times with deep hatred!)

Architecturally speaking, China's Forbidden City is rather mediocre. I know it's not a popular opinion and not many Western architects care to voice their honest opinions. But it's true. That's NOT to say that there's nothing good about it. The planning involved for such a grand structure was very complex and required sophisticated organizational skills. There is certain elegance to the Forbidden City when viewed as a whole, due to its use of only 3 colors - gold, red, and white. But if you examine the individual components closely, you'll find that they are rather simple and lack artistic sophistication. There are also some problems with scale and proportions, such as the size of the columns in relation to the building. Then there are issues of functionality, among many others.

As an imperial palace, its sense of grandeur lies only in its scale, NOT artistic design of individual component buildings - the essense of architecture.

Why dont you start to say what you define about "artistic/aestetic" from your world? and let us examine it and compare with world standard, so that we can discuss with more intelect ...

He's simply an annoying troll. Not allowing any room for rational debate.



omg!!!!!! Alert the Boston authorities!!

http://is.freefoto.com/images_e/1211/05/1211_05_75_web.jpg
The columns on this building is totally disproportionate from the rest of the building. Not even close :bash:

As an imperial palace, its sense of grandeur lies only in its scale, NOT artistic design of individual component buildings - the essense of architecture.

Okay, some of your arguments against me were well-founded. A lot of the things I said were just personal opinion, but it's not your opinion of Chinese architecture that surprises me here. After all, many architects in the past have had architectural opinions that were against the norm. Le Corbusier believed sending architecture students to study Roman and Renaissance buildings in Italy would damage them forever! I disagree with your critique of the Forbidden City, but it was well-written and argued from an architectural perspective.

No, it's not your opinion on Chinese architecture that is problematic to me. It's that you post in such an angry tone, and you call people names, usually preceeded by "Chinese," as if their being Chinese gives them certain character flaws. Your opinion of modern Chinese architecture is far from being odd. Posting your opinion in a polite manner would be absolutely fine, but instead you seem to have something against China and Chinese people. I got the impression that you had some sort of grudge against China based on your tone, not on your architectural opinions. If I'm wrong, then I apologize, but can't you see why people might think that about you?

You said "the Chinese have bad taste in a lot of things" and you talk about the architecture and planning of Shanghai as if it's the fault of the Chinese people, rather than a weakness of government or the architecutural profession in China. You call cultural elements of China, such as forms of cinema and dance, "stupid." While that may be your opinion, does bringing it up have anything to do with architecture. Of course not; it's just a way of taking an extra shot at China and the Chinese people.

I'm somewhat torn between attacking your tone and derision toward China, or legitimately countering your positions. I could start by saying that you complained about people saying your opinon was "relative," but you gave no theoretical basis that it wasn't. Theory is the only basis by which aesthetics can be shown to be more than relative. You said "that's your personal opinion" as a critique of my post as well! Personal opinon = relative. People aren't upset that you have your own opinion; they're upset that you state it in a condescending fashion as if it is an obvious truth, and fail to provide any support.

In one of your more crude moments, you condescendingly asked what school of logic I am using. Funny you should mention that; I'm studying logic right now at Wadham College, Oxford! Could you suggest a better school of logic so I don't make the same mistakes next time? :)

One last thing. Your response extensively dealt with my first post, but you completely ignored my request that you post some of your own work. I really am interested in seeing your work, and of course I won't critique it. I don't mean this to be a personal attack. I love all kinds of architecture, and I'd like to see how your architectural opinions manifest themselves in your own projects.

dcb,

The Forbidden City is not flawed or mediore in any way. It excels in the embodiment of Chinese traditional ideals of architecture. What he described (the sophisicated simplicity, the gracefulness when viewed as a whole, the organization and meaning behind it) is everything the designers of the Forbidden City was meant to do and nothing more!!!!

Chinese architecture isn't meant to have grand imposing buildings praised for it's individual artistic merit. It is built with "living" wood, and aims for organic harmony. Europeans built with stone, so they put alot of effort into each building because it will be there forever. The Chinese meant their architecture to be empheral and rebuilt again and again.

Europe and China views architecture differently. Architecture does not play such a core role in the Chinese identity compared to Europe. Which is why they have no qualms with bulldozing venacular houses much to Westerners' horror.

Architecture is judged by how it lends to a sense of Place and how well it fulfills its intent.

The Forbidden City is not flawed or mediore in any way.

You don't have to tell me! I simply wanted to differentiate between thoughful criticism based on architectural features and criticism based on grudges and prejudices.

I do, however, disagree with your view that architecture is not as pivotal to China as it is to the West. Both civilizations looked at architecture in similar ways. The Chinese don't have (many) qualms about bulldozing old areas because they are decaying and the people living in them would benefit (or think they would benefit) from newer housing. Also some governments, including the US and China, are in general less concerned about preservatioon than Europe, although both are increasing their concern for historical architecture. Its a lot easier to retrofit a stone mansion in Paris than a Hutong in Beijing. In both cases, people love their traditional architecture, but it's always a matter of money. Buildings that can't be retrofitted for a "modern" purpose generally do not survive.

Hahahaha! here's Kenwen - another uneducated, narrow-minded, ignorant and stupid Chinese numbskull!!

did you know that the U.S. military can incinerate China several times over right now without any fear of credible retaliation from the incompetent Chinese military?

Don't flatter yourself dumbass. Your monkey brain isn't good enough to earn you a decent living, much less to predict the future.

Go get some REAL education, you Chinese dumbass!!!!


such language is intolerable and you are obviously racist.

You have been brigged for 5 days.

Any more trouble from you and you are banned.

i think y r v waiting for 5 days ?

Good lord... This 'gurukool' now is sporting an Indian flag??

Jesus... we know you're not Indian, and we know you troll as one.

the next manhattan is starting

honestly ... making these rather judgemental comments i really wonder how well do you know chinese architecture, history and culture???

It seems the clown architect never showed up again since we urged him for logical reasons.... its obvious that he could only bring garbage instead of reasonable debate...

Wow, I sure miss a lot in this thread. A post about Shanghai ends up being politcal and racial. Why can't "Architect" understands that its all a matter of taste and opinion? Some like apples and some like oranges not everyone has to agree with each other. What a bigot.

there's something wrong with this guy! ><
can't believe he's an architect. maybe it's just because he can never get to be one so he called himself one. --"