A couple of months ago, I was reading USA Today and it sayed that people were commuting from the Allentown, PA area to New York to their jobs. I got interested and looked up some more on Allentown, PA and the housing prices are quite low (I saw some homes on realor.com under 50,000 dollars) being about 60 miles from NYC. I was wondering why do the real estate prices take such a tumble over an area of just 60 miles?

It's closer to the Philadelphia metro area

allentown is more connected to the philly region. people from all over commute to new york city, so that alone wouldn't make it part of myc's metro area. people from philly, wilmington, hartford, even farther places like baltimore and providence work in new york, but that does not make those areas part of new york city.

My friend has family in Allentown.. he usually doesn't have too much good to say about the place..
That might be why home values are low..

Maybe someone from the area can talk about ti..

Who in Baltimore works in New York. Thats like 4 hours away thats crazy.

Who in Baltimore works in New York. Thats like 4 hours away thats crazy.

I have a friend who works 2 days out of the week in NYC and she lives in Baltimore... It can happen. It's only 2hrs and sum change from Bmore via amtrak... :cheers:

I was talking to this Indian dude one day who I sold some telecommunications to..
This dude worked in Newark, DE (pronounced "New Ark" not "New Erk") and lived in NY. That is idiotic. That is like a 2 hour drive just to the tubes.

I also worked for a chick that lived in Annapolis and worked in North Wilmington.

These people are rich/nuts whatever. I think Philly to Wilmington (20 mins) is brutally intolerable by my spoiled standards. You must have ulcers driving in all that Northeast traffic!

I think Allentown SHOULD be in the NYC metro area. NYC over shadows that region of PA. I don't think of Allentown as a "real" city any more, it's just a quasi suburb IMO.

By the way, my definition of "real cities" are cities that don't depended on neighboring cities for growth and development.

I think Allentown SHOULD be in the NYC metro area. NYC over shadows that region of PA. I don't think of Allentown as a "real" city any more, it's just a quasi suburb IMO.

By the way, my definition of "real cities" are cities that don't depended on neighboring cities for growth and development.

there is some separation between philly and allentown, though, there are mountains and hills that can't be built on, or are too expensive to build on, that separate the two areas. there are also mountains that separate allentown from new york city, too, if you feel that allentown is more closely related to that city. so in my opinion, it's still it's own city.

I was talking to this Indian dude one day who I sold some telecommunications to..
This dude worked in Newark, DE (pronounced "New Ark" not "New Erk") and lived in NY. That is idiotic. That is like a 2 hour drive just to the tubes.

I also worked for a chick that lived in Annapolis and worked in North Wilmington.

These people are rich/nuts whatever. I think Philly to Wilmington (20 mins) is brutally intolerable by my spoiled standards. You must have ulcers driving in all that Northeast traffic!

I worked for an insurance company in Hockessin, and getting to and from was a pain in the ass... I started off driving down, then got tired of the traffic on 476,202, and 95 so I started taking the R2 and connecting with the bus that runs into Hockessin. The bus stops running from 12pm to 3pm then runs like every hour until 6 ot 7(something like that). Most of the time I was leaving the job at a time when the hour wait for the bus would conflict with connecting to the R2 in a timely manner, so I had to call Oscar(a cab driver with plenty of habits) to take me to the amtrak in wilmington. After a 2 month trial I had to let the company go... I know of other people who had the same issues when working in DE - but then again, neither of us were rich or working for a company that paid us an amount good enough to make the trip worthwhile... FACK UFLAC :cheers:

I had a professor at a university in western Virginia who lived in Maryland's DC/Balt suburbs, 2.5 hrs away. His wife worked in New York. INSANE.

As for Allentown, its alliances seem to be more toward Philadelphia from what I can tell about the place. I talked to someone at DVRPC, Philly's MPO, and he said the greatest growth in Bucks County (a county that spans the area between Philly and the Lehigh Valley area) is seeing tremendous growth in its northern portions due to overspill from ABE (Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton). But IMO it's just a matter of time before New York swallows the Philadelphia region anyway.

But IMO it's just a matter of time before New York swallows the Philadelphia region anyway.


No way Philadlephia gets swallowed up by NYC, Philadelphia metro has grown from a metro of 3,000,000 back in the 1950's to 6,000,000 today. We have virtually no affiliation with New York whatsoever other than a pretty good sports rivalry. Hell will freeze over before Philly starts pandering to New York City metro. We'll never be as rich and as important as NYC but we'll also never be part of NYC. Never! Never!Never! :bash:

There is and always has been a very precise line in Central Jersey(trenton) that seperates NYC and Philly. There may come a day when a few square miles in central Jersey switches alliances from Philly to North Jersey/ NYC. BUt the gloves come off at the Delaware River.

As far as Allentown is concerned it's not a suburb of NYC or Philly, it is a unique, independent region.

I think Allentown SHOULD be in the NYC metro area. NYC over shadows that region of PA. I don't think of Allentown as a "real" city any more, it's just a quasi suburb IMO.

By the way, my definition of "real cities" are cities that don't depended on neighboring cities for growth and development.


Sorry bro, but it's a separate metro, even though there are people moving from the NYC area to the Lehigh Valley and the Poconos. Personally, I dont believe that the Lehigh Valley should become a part of NYC due to the fact that it's in PA and the allegiance and media leans more to Phila than in NYC. The farthest out west would be Phillipsburg, NJ, where you get NYC media. If you come to PA, you get Phila media. And there are Eagles fans here mostly, not Giants fan (albeit a few, who are NYC transplants) but it's technically Phila territory, even though the Lehigh Valley is a distinct metro.

Allentown has more in common with Philadelphia because it is closer to Philly than NYC and it is in Pennsylvania. Maybe the Allentown metro will be part of the Philly CSA one day as will Reading eventually.

Aside from the extreme northeast corner of PA, NYC. metro area stops at the Delaware river to the west trenton to the south

theres blurry line where signals fade out from NY and fade in from Philly

or the second rationale: if u cant see the skyline ur not in the metro


Sorry u guys dont fit the third either: No NY TV or NY FM Radio( maybe u have special equipment.

All true for Philly as well

U guys are on ur own

my suggestion-
Hope Steel comes back

Allentown is part of its own MSA and isn't connected to either city as far as the Census Bureau is concerned.

However, you'll find the city is more connected with Philadelphia than New York in any ways.

Did you guys ever think exactly what counties are reallly in question as far as joining the New york CSA. Pike county in PA already has, I think next will be Monroe county. As far as the lehigh valley, it's probable it could be split, just as trenton was split off from the Phila CSA. I would say Northampton county (Bethlehem-Easton) is somewhat affiliated with New York because all those new subdivisions there are catering to New York CSA'ers. Lehigh county (Allentown) seems not to greatly of being a suburm or exurb, not to New York anyway. Perhaps Allentown might go to Philadelphia and Northampton could go the New York. On another note I'm curious if the New england states will start using counties as a measure of inclusion into an MSA/CSA because then there are parts of litchfield and New Haven county wich would then join New York. The only other county I could think of that might join the New York CSA is Middlesex county in Connecticut, because it is the next in line after New Haven county. Upstate New York I don't believe will extend upward for a while. Greene, columbia and sullivan counties are just a whee bit to out there. As far as a New York-Phila merger, maybe, but a long ways off.

Well I guess I'll dig up this one since things have changed in 4 years.

Do you guys think the Lehigh Valley minus Carbon county could combine with the New York CSA? Can Northampton county (Bethelehem-Easton) join without Lehigh county (Allentown)?

I can tell you Monroe county, PA and Sullivan county, NY will very soon join the New York CSA. Not so sure about Middlesex county, CT though.

Since the last post, Reading/Berks county joined the Philadelphia CSA.

No, it's either it's own area or part of Philly's metro.

I think Allentown SHOULD be in the NYC metro area. NYC over shadows that region of PA. I don't think of Allentown as a "real" city any more, it's just a quasi suburb IMO.

By the way, my definition of "real cities" are cities that don't depended on neighboring cities for growth and development.

don't type if you don't know what you're typing about.

allentown is in the lehigh valley area, making up it's own metropolitan region which consists of the cities of allentown, bethlehem, and easton. the economy there was largely dependent on bethlehem steel before they went out of business, and easton is still the home of crayola crayons. ppl (pennsylvania's power and light) is based in allentown, and caters to an overwhelming portion of the state of pennsylvania.that's plenty of available job infrastructure to bring growth and development, and it's not even close to the sum of contributions it brings to all of pennsylvania.

allentown may be losing population, but so is philadelphia, and virtually every other northeastern city excluding new york.

revisiting 7th grade social studies might be beneficial.

seriously, get informed.

Sounds kind of like those who live out in St. Catharines/Niagara Falls and commute to Toronto, except even longer distances...and most likely with more traffic (although the QEW can be ridiculous sometimes.)

Also, kind of off topic but since we're on the subject of bizarre commutes, I've heard of people living in Niagara Falls, Ontario and Commuting to Niagara Falls, NY. Living and working in 2 countries, commuting daily between them just sounds kind of funny I think...

call it crazy but it happens. ^^

i've even heard occasionally of people living in western new york, commuting to GTA.
i'm sure its not common, but when you consider how long the commutes of alot of people in southern california are, its not that unreasonable.

I think Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton are part of Philadelphia and New York City's metro areas. Philly and New York metro areas practically overlap as it is.

don't type if you don't know what you're typing about.

allentown is in the lehigh valley area, making up it's own metropolitan region which consists of the cities of allentown, bethlehem, and easton. the economy there was largely dependent on bethlehem steel before they went out of business, and easton is still the home of crayola crayons. ppl (pennsylvania's power and light) is based in allentown, and caters to an overwhelming portion of the state of pennsylvania.that's plenty of available job infrastructure to bring growth and development, and it's not even close to the sum of contributions it brings to all of pennsylvania.

allentown may be losing population, but so is philadelphia, and virtually every other northeastern city excluding new york.

revisiting 7th grade social studies might be beneficial.

seriously, get informed.

Don't be rude and grow up. That attitude will not do you any favors in life.

I think Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton are part of Philadelphia and New York City's metro areas. Philly and New York metro areas practically overlap as it is.

Pretty much - there are influences from both cities.

Traditionally, the area was more influenced by Philadelphia. The people here rooted for Philadelphia pro sports teams, there are various cheesesteak places around, etc. And of course, Philadelphia is also much closer to the Lehigh Valley than New York is.

But since the 80's, New York has been adding more influence to the region. Manufacturing was down significantly throughout the region. The one thing the region did have was cheap housing, three different medium-sized cities, and nice landscape. It became more attractive to either long-distance commuters who still worked in Manhattan, or to total transplants who lived and worked in the region. The commuters tended to be wealthier and white, while the transplants who worked in region tended to be poorer and of Hispanic or another minority ethnicity.

But either way, both groups brought their New York City roots with them. Talk with any native or long-time Lehigh Valley resident, and they will tell you that driving became considerably worse and more aggressive when New York and New Jersey drivers started moving in in the 90's. Besides the Phillies, the Mets and Yankees have many fans in the region nowadays.

But overall, given that there is a 70 miles+ distance between the region and New York, I'd say that Philadelphia and the other Pennsylvania regions still exerts a much greater influence on the region.

I think Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton are part of Philadelphia and New York City's metro areas. Philly and New York metro areas practically overlap as it is.i honestly don't think nyc & philly's metro areas are that close. i've always looked at the boundaries of a metro area as anywhere that's within 50 miles of the big city. i just don't think they're close enough.:ohno:

now, baltimore & d.c.'s case is different. we're only 35 miles apart...

Is allentown worth visiting?

Is allentown worth visiting?

Not really , i had to go to Private School there for a year. The City is very dead and people are not as friendly as walking down the street in New York City or Jersey City.

A substantial migration of Puerto Ricans & other Latinos from the NYC/NJ metro into Allentown/Bethlehem, Reading, Lancaster, & some of the other old PA Dutch rowhouse cities has been going on for the past few decades.

Some of the long-time locals haven't been all the that delighted about the influx of fresh blood. But the Hispanic influx has spared the those PA cities of the massive population declines suffered by the upstate NY cities...Or for that matter the declines of the western PA cities

I'm from the Lehigh Valley. The area has it's own identity, but because it's in PA, it's traditionally influenced by Philadelphia. A large influx of people from NY and NJ have been moving in ever since the completion of I-78. These people generally come to the LV for the lower cost of living; they usually have jobs in NJ and 78 makes it convenient for them to live in PA and work in NJ. Businesses have also been moving into the Valley for the same reason.

As for what metro area it belongs too...it's hard to say. I always thought the Lehigh Valley had an identity of it's own. I believe it is considered it's own MSA in statistics. It's been the fasting growing metropolitan area in PA for many years now. When I was in school, it seemed like half the kids liked Philly teams and half NY teams. The papers reflect this. There are 2 newspapers in the Valley, one out of Allentown and one out of Easton. The Allentown paper covers Philly sports. The Easton paper covers PA and NY sports. However, the Easton paper's coverage area extends into NJ. Actually, some people consider the Lehigh Valley as comprising counties in PA and NJ. Lots of people are criss-crossing the border all the time; I went to private school in Bethlehem and I'd say 25% of the students were from NJ. A lot of my classmates, including myself, were originally from NJ/NY as well. On the roads, you see a lot of NJ plates. In NJ, you see a lot of PA plates (usually driving slower lol).

TV: we get both Philly and NY affiliates of basic channels on cable. You can get both on antenna as well. That means 2 CBS's, 2 ABC's, 2 NBC's, 2 FOX's...I think we get 3 PBS's (Philly, NJ, NY). Because the LV is growing so fast and big, Philly and NY are taking notice. Philly news affiliates are sending news trucks up here to cover some stories and Allentown has appeared on weather maps on NY news and occasionally makes it into a news story.

Cities: I don't like Allentown that much. I've very biased to Bethlehem lol (for obvious reasons). Easton is OK. I don't like Phillipsburg that much (a city in NJ btw, that many consider part of the Lehigh Valley). Like many metropolitan areas, most people live in the suburbs. The Lehigh Valley is one giant, sprawling plain of housing developments, office parks and highways. It's becoming a (nicer version) of NJ lol.

The Poconos are in a similar situation as the LV. Lots on NJ/NY influence. Same goes for Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. Many people commute into NJ to jobs. There has been talk for a while as to restoring a rail line from that area back into NJ and NY.

"Cities: I don't like Allentown that much. I've very biased to Bethlehem lol (for obvious reasons). Easton is OK. "

Allentown has great potential, I worked there for 3 years and I really miss the cheap diners, the 2 block long farmers market, 19th street theatre and the area around it, and some parts of the south side. There isn't really the same level of abandonment in the center city that you see in many pennsylvania cities and all it would take is some people with money to fix up some of the houses there. Hamilton street needs work..haven't been back in a few years so I didn't get to see the new Allentown Brew Works, but that really helped Bethlehem so maybe something similar for Allentown?

I lived in Bethlehem, in my 3 years there I was seeing an increasing encroachment of the New York attitude. I thought it was hilarious that someone tried to open a really expensive gourmet hot dog shop in a town that has Yocco's and Pete's (I always preferred Pete's over Yocco's mostly for the retro vibe). The First Friday was always a great event, but I found myself wondering who's buying the 200$ clothes from the new boutiques on the southside in the Lehigh Valley. Center City Bethlehem is still one of the most beautiful city centers in America though.

"Cities: I don't like Allentown that much. I've very biased to Bethlehem lol (for obvious reasons). Easton is OK. "

Allentown has great potential, I worked there for 3 years and I really miss the cheap diners, the 2 block long farmers market, 19th street theatre and the area around it, and some parts of the south side. There isn't really the same level of abandonment in the center city that you see in many pennsylvania cities and all it would take is some people with money to fix up some of the houses there. Hamilton street needs work..haven't been back in a few years so I didn't get to see the new Allentown Brew Works, but that really helped Bethlehem so maybe something similar for Allentown?

I lived in Bethlehem, in my 3 years there I was seeing an increasing encroachment of the New York attitude. I thought it was hilarious that someone tried to open a really expensive gourmet hot dog shop in a town that has Yocco's and Pete's (I always preferred Pete's over Yocco's mostly for the retro vibe). The First Friday was always a great event, but I found myself wondering who's buying the 200$ clothes from the new boutiques on the southside in the Lehigh Valley. Center City Bethlehem is still one of the most beautiful city centers in America though.

The need to push for the Extension of the Rail line form NJ and that will really cause the Metro to become nicer. With all the New Developments and Jobs. Also push for the line form Philly.

The need to push for the Extension of the Rail line form NJ and that will really cause the Metro to become nicer. With all the New Developments and Jobs. Also push for the line form Philly.

I believe the cost of extending the rail into the LV is somewhere in the realm of the extreme ($100s of million), as well as a very low projected ridership. Also, the line is diesel and only goes to Hoboken I believe, requiring a transfer; barring any major traffic delays, it's probably faster to take a bus into Manhattan than a frequently-stopping diesel train. It would probably take almost 3 hours one way to get into Manhattan from Allentown by train! Anyway, most people going east for work are commuting to office parks in Jersey anyway, so taking mass transit is not even a blip on most people's radar.

As for Philly, the right of way into Bethlehem has been turned into a trail. There's talk of restoring service from Lansdale to just north of Quakertown, but that's just talk. Any restoration of service would probably require electrification of the line as well, significantly increasing costs (SEPTA wants 100% electrification in order to run trains in the Center City Connector tunnel). Again, projected ridership is low. What a lot of people commuting to Philly do is shoot down the turnpike or 309 and hop on the train at Lansdale. Restoring service north of Lansdale will probably add few new riders; instead, it might just shift existing riders boarding at Lansdale to stations closer to their homes.

http://www.wfmz.com/news/23823306/detail.html

Panto Proposes New Rail Task Force
Bo Koltnow | Reporter
Posted: 6:20 pm EDT June 7, 2010

EASTON, Pa. -- Commuters have been clamoring for it, but will a rail-service revival ever really happen in the Lehigh Valley? It will if some local leaders get their way. They're bringing back a task force dedicated to the issue in the wake of a damaging study.

The last passenger train to pull through Easton stopped in the late 1950s. But Mayor Sal Panto says the trestle you see behind me could be used to bring trains into Easton and the Lehigh Valley.

For almost 10 years, Phillipsburg's Jim Harvey says he's been taking buses into New York City for work, he says that the buses are crowded and noisy.

One reason why Easton Mayor Sal Panto says he and Phillipsburg Mayor Harry Wyant have re-started their Easton-Phillipsburg Passenger Rail Task Force to try and get passenger rail to Easton and Phillipsburg.

However in April a study commissioned by the LVEDC said passenger rail service in the Lehigh Valley wouldn't be cost effective compared to the number of riders.

But don't tell that to Mark Guerrier who uses the bus from Brooklyn, he says that sometimes the bus station is so crowded, not everyone can get on one bus, and they have to send for a second.

The Brookings Institute, a Washington DC think tank, estimates the Lehigh Valley-area has 50,000 daily commuters to New York City.

The Federal Government has set billions of dollars aside for rail.. Panto says the task force's goal is to show that the Valley needs some of that money.

The LVEDC study said it would cost about $600 million to bring rail to the valley. Which is why Panto is proposing doing it in stages. The LVEDC did say that talks have started with train company's about what exactly is needed to make passenger trains a reality here in the valley again.

I didn't know there was as many as 50,000 commuters to NYC from the Lehigh Valley (apparently). A recent study estimated that if train service were restored, there would only be 800 daily riders.

http://www.wfmz.com/news/23823306/detail.html



I didn't know there was as many as 50,000 commuters to NYC from the Lehigh Valley (apparently). A recent study estimated that if train service were restored, there would only be 800 daily riders.

Doesn't suprise me , theres probably another 20,000 that go to points before NYC , so where would you come up with 800 daily riders? I think the Extension of the RVL which serves , 20,000 daily could be bumped out to 50,000 daily = to the NEC line in NJ. Anything above 40,000 warrants Electrification. So by 2015 we might have a Rail service. Also PA has identified this as a Intercity Corridor.:)