TAMPA - FRANKLIN STREET DEVELOPMENTS

[smiley]

Note: I saw a city meeting where the owners of this block claimed htat they really do have a plan which they will bring out soon, which will involve some demolition but saving some buildigns. Also see bolded portion below:

Franklin Envisioned As Hub For Downtown
By ELLEN GEDALIUS egedalius@tampatrib.com
Published: Feb 13, 2005




TAMPA - The number of yellow and green ``condemned'' stickers along North Franklin Street easily rivals the number of ``open'' signs on the once- bustling shopping strip.
City officials, Tampa Downtown Partnership, developers and business owners envision something more.

The musty smell would vanish. The boards on shop windows would come down.

People would work on Franklin, and they also would live in condos there. After work, they would grab a drink, eat at a midpriced restaurant, see a flick at Tampa Theatre, admire the arts on Ashley Drive and walk - not drive - home to their urban lofts.

Today's sleepy and desolate Franklin would be tomorrow's hip and hopping place to be.

Why North Franklin Street? Why now?

Last week, representatives of the consulting company Hunter Interests Inc. told about 200 people gathered at Tampa Theatre of their plan to revitalize Tampa's urban core. Part of that vision plan centers on North Franklin, loosely between Kennedy Boulevard and Interstate 275. Company President Don Hunter proposes turning the corridor into an outdoor cafe district that would lure people to the streets after dark.

``You've got red brick, narrow lanes, landscaping,'' Hunter said. ``It's the kind of environment where if I was opening a cafe with umbrellas, it's exactly the kind of street I'd want to be on. A lot of the steppingstones to do this are in place.''

Consider:

* Franklin is home to Tampa Theatre, a historic movie house. People often look for a place to eat before or after the movie.

* TECO Plaza sits on Franklin, with the utility employing more than 700 people. Much of Franklin's revival depends on pedestrian traffic - people spilling out of the offices after work into restaurants nearby.

* Condos - and people - are coming. The condo project called Residences of Franklin Street will break ground in a few weeks. Construction is slated to begin on The Arlington, where condos sold out in a day and a half. Pradip C. Patel purchased the Maas Bros. department store buildings and, although he has no specific plans, residences and retail are options.

Those projects are in addition to the proposed Trump Tower Tampa, a condo project along Whiting Street and Ashley Drive.


The Forgotten Area

Franklin, a pedestrian mall between Jackson and Twiggs streets, has been ``Tampa's sort of forgotten area,'' said Stephanie Ferrell of Arlington Partners, the group converting the Arlington Hotel into 11 condos and eight offices. ``We're just beginning to do those interesting and exciting things that make a city vibrant and vital.''

In the cafe district, Hunter envisions a sushi bar next to a Greek restaurant next to an Italian eatery.

They don't have to be large restaurants, he said. Most could be mom-and pop places, although he speculates that some of the area's bigger restaurants might be interested in opening smaller spots on Franklin.

Large chain restaurants wouldn't be ideal, Hunter said. There's not enough room to park. Keep them in the suburbs, he said.

Retail also would be an important part of the mix, Hunter said.

Again, he doesn't anticipate high-end chain clothing stores. Rather, there would be art galleries and specialty shops, perhaps a florist or shirt and tie store.

To make that happen, Hunter would create a downtown development corporation, which would be charged with setting up a storefront office in the North Franklin area. The agency would try to lease five retail properties in its first year and another five a few years later. Old buildings would be rehabilitated and leased.

A foundering economy could jeopardize these dreams, said Rodney Kite- Powell, a historian at Tampa Bay History Center. Interest rates would climb. People would be less likely to invest in new condos. Banks would lose their ability to finance projects.

Besides renewing Franklin, the Tampa Downtown Vision and Action Plan outlines ways to boost the Tampa Bay Performing Arts Center area and the city's proposed riverwalk along the Hillsborough River. area.

Christine Burdick, president of Tampa Downtown Partnership, hopes those districts play off one another: People could head to a restaurant on Franklin after watching a show at the performing arts center or walking their dogs along the riverwalk.


Past And Present

The Franklin corridor was at its business peak in the 1940s and early 1950s, Kite-Powell said. But by the 1960s, it had fallen victim to the suburbs. As people moved to Town 'N Country and Carrollwood, businesses and malls opened.

By the 1980s and early 1990s, more malls opened. With little population growth downtown, Woolworth's and other stores along Franklin struggled, Kite-Powell said.

With the influx of residences downtown, though, the historian predicts a revival.

``The key is people,'' he said. ``If people move into downtown Tampa, businesses will follow. There's not a Publix on the Pasco County line because cows want to shop there. People do.''

Current business owners look forward to more vibrancy on Franklin.

Leland Cool of the Nature Shop wishes Franklin would resemble lower Manhattan. When Tampa residents see boarded-up businesses on Franklin, he said, they steer clear. His flower store relies heavily on Internet and phone orders.

``It affects us because people don't come into the area,'' Cool said. ``If there's just one or two businesses, there's no reason, no destination point'' for shoppers.


`A Good Time To Get In'

When Elliott Acosta laid the groundwork for opening his casual eatery, Mr. Empanada, on Franklin, he noticed a strong, moldy odor and water leaking from the Maas Bros. building next door. The problem was mostly fixed, although a smell lingers.

``You can't put a table out there because they'd get dripped with moldy water,'' Acosta said. But, of opening a restaurant on Franklin, he said, ``It's a good time to get in.''

Ferrell, when talking about her condo and business plan for The Arlington, feels the same way.

``We want to do something that's very good and make money at it,'' Ferrell said.

Having a downtown development corporation coordinating efforts should help spur revitalization, Burdick said. Until now, landowners have been operating independently, she said.

``It's difficult for a single retailer to go in there and be successful,'' Burdick said. ``And I'm not sure they've all been trying. Successful retail requires synergy.''

Before long, she and Hunter hope, Franklin will thrive the way it did when people shopped at Woolworth's and Maas Bros.

``There's no reason some of this community development can't happen in Tampa,'' Hunter said. ``We think that's a reasonable thing.''


Researcher Diane Grey contributed to this story. Reporter Ellen Gedalius can be reached at (813) 259-7679
http://www.tampatrib.com/MGB2MGMM45E.html

[smiley]

A friend of mine told me yesterday that Franklin residences is well over 50% sold, so maybe it really will go soon. They should update their website.

[smiley]

There was also an artile in the business journal of a two story office going up on between Florida-Franklin near Tyler. NOt huge, but any space that gets filled in with something decent and bigger than 1 story is fine by me right now. Get some momentum going and more will come.

[Jasonhouse]

Does it take up a whole block, or just a portion of one?

A two story building could make perfect sense. It's big enough that they can make more in rents than they could in parking revenues in that area, and the building is a relatively small investment, which could be bulldozed for something which maximizes developable space when the market is stronger.

[smiley]

No, I think it is about a quarter block or half a block. Looks kind of nice in the bad rendering. Something to give life. There is enough open and underused space on the north of downtown that it worries me little.

[FLHawk]

I don't think the importance of the 30-something story Novare tower can be overstated in terms of the development of North Tampa. I think once that project is underway, people (ie government and developers) will see some tangible movement in this area. Restauranteurs will be more attracted to this newly dubbed "cafe district" and the risk won't seem as great to open a business on Franklin.

Anyone heard any news on this project, other than the website that doesn't give any specifics? Are they opening a sales center soon?

[Jasonhouse]

^Opening the sales center when site demo is done and they can get it built, from what I've heard.

[smiley]

Developer told me it was going to start in MArch - the building that is. I have no real idea how, but that's what they said in January without qualifications.

[sarasotan]

does anyone know whats up with the arlington conversion?

[smiley]

SOld out - I think work is being done now

[sarasotan]

http://media.tbo.com/photos/trib/2005/feb/0216sky2.jpg
http://www.tampatrib.com/Business/MGBPEOFDA5E.html
Downtown High-Rise Is Ready For Takeoff
By SHANNON BEHNKEN sbehnken@tampatrib.com
Published: Feb 17, 2005

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Click here.
TAMPA - Donald Trump's plan for luxurious condominiums may be the talk of the town, but it's the 32-story SkyPoint development that is on track to break ground soon.

If all goes as planned, construction will begin in April - making it the first residential high-rise in downtown's central business district.

Gregory Minder, of Novare- Intown Tampa Development LLC, said Wednesday that the company is close to obtaining the project's $80 million in financing and plans to open a marketing office March 5.

Intowngroup of Tampa is working with the Atlanta- based Novare Group to build the condominiums. Minder said he hopes to attract 25- to 40-year-old professionals looking to live in an urban environment. Many of these units, he said, will offer an alternative for those who cannot afford the high-end homes planned for the area.

``The top end of our product is where some others begin,'' Minder said.

Company officials have kept the details quiet until now, but there has been increasing speculation about what is planned for the downtown site, which is surrounded by a plywood fence. The Tampa Electric parking structure was demolished last month and the property is being prepped for construction.

The 381 units at 777 Ashley Drive would be one- and two- bedrooms, priced from about $170,000 to more than $400,000, Minder said. The building, which would be directly across the street from the proposed new Tampa Museum of Art, would play off the cultural environment planned for the area.

Residents would be able to view and choose their favorite paintings from a virtual gallery in the lobby. The selections would be encoded in their access key. When the key is swiped at the front door, plasma screens in the lobby would display their art.

When the key was swiped to enter the elevator - which would take residents to their floor only - the television in the elevator would change to the station of their choice. The selections would remain for five minutes before the next resident's selections appear.

``The same technology that makes this a safe building is used to make it fun,'' Minder said.

The units generally would range from 745 to 1,310 square feet. The average condominium would be 900 square feet but won't feel small, Minder said, because of 10-foot ceilings and floor-to-ceiling glass windows.

A pair of two-story penthouses also are planned for the top of the building.

SkyPoint amenities would include a 24-hour concierge, a covered parking garage, a pool, fitness center and a common kitchen for entertaining. The interior of the units would feature wood floors and granite countertops.

The ground floor would feature 10,000 square feet of storefronts and restaurant space.

SkyPoint is one of four high- rise condominium projects planned for the downtown business district. In nearby areas, 24 condominium projects of varying sizes are either in construction or proposed for the Channel District, Harbour Island and Bayshore Boulevard.

The majority of the units at SkyPoint would range from $200,000 to more than $1 million. By contrast, units at the planned 52-story Trump Tower Tampa start at $700,000 and run to more than $6 million.

Intowngroup also is involved in the Meridian condominium development under construction in the Channel District. The Novare Group has done projects similar to SkyPoint in Atlanta, Charlotte, N.C., and Atlanta, the company said.

Minder said a model unit will be built inside the marketing center in the Colonial Bank building at 400 N. Tampa St. so buyers can see what they are purchasing. Condominium developments typically take reservations on units before construction begins, but Minder said his company will do contract sales only.

Reporter Shannon Behnken can be reached at (813) 259-7804.

[Dale]

What a spectacular rendering ! This one's really growing on me.

[FLHawk]

I think it's going to be a great project! To see the daytime rendering, or register for more info, go to www.tampa.novaregroup.com.

[smiley]

Ah, some quick math - 10 foot ceiling means 11 or 12 foot heights per floor, at least so in the 350-400 range - let's hope the 32 does not count that silliness on top and it gets to 400. That would be nice.

Not sure how they will get started by April - always wondered about that - but hope they do. I like it - though the rendering angle emphasizes height rather than wisth. From another side it will look a bit more squat, but that's ok.

[Jasonhouse]

BTW... I thought something looked a little funny, so I downloaded that SkyPoint rendering and counted the floors...There were 35-36 floors, depending how the top is arranged. And then there is the spire thing, which is a solid 40-50ft.

If the building really has grown a few floors (which seems entirely believable if their sales claims are true), then it is definitely going to be 400ft+. I think at this size, this building is going to really stand out, if it is done right. They definitely need to light the top in some interesting way.

If it really is 36 floors now...then that puts the hieght projection right at 400-410ft. Hmmm, I wonder if they can push it to 450-475? :D

[smiley]

Of course, renderings are notoriously inaccurate but yea, that pic is 34 or 35 stories. My guess, it will be just under 400', just to be annoying.

[Dale]

In any case, this one should be quite dominant from 275, no ?

[Jasonhouse]

^That's what I'm talking about by saying it will stand out. More important is the fact that its location is such that the sw to nw views are practically gauranteed longterm.

I personally think this project is going to be serious sleeper investment. People won't fully grasp how great the location is until the building has actually been there a while.

[Dale]

I think Novarre's found the formula for sure.

[Jasonhouse]

This is the one that my parents are mulling buying a unit in, and might help me out on one, if they can swing it (probably not, because they're looking to get one of the larger units).

[smiley]

Someone wantedto know about the Arlignton:
The Arlington
By MICHAEL CANNING
Published February 18, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOCATION: 1209 N Franklin St., downtown.

DEVELOPER: Stephanie Ferrell and Russell Versaggi as Arlington Partners LLC.

DESCRIPTION: Two-story circa 1910 brick vernacular building with 31,000 square feet. The ground floor is being converted into 10 units ranging from 1,200 to 1,620 square feet for retail, commercial, residential or live-work use, said listing agent Dallas Coffield. The upper floor will have 11 residential units, seven of which will be one-story flats. They will range from 680 to 1,200 square feet. Four other units will be two-story townhomes ranging from 1,200 to 1,500 square feet.

PRICE: The Arlington is sold out. Units went from $140,000 to $325,000.

AMENITIES: The flats and townhomes will feature much of the historic building's original trim work, including doors, transom windows, carpentry accents, 12-foot ceilings, plus hardwood floors and stone kitchen countertops. The townhomes will have rooftop decks.

WHAT THEY'RE SAYING: "I was definitely charmed and surprised by (the building)," said Stephanie Ferrell, a Tampa architect who specializes in historic preservation. She said much of the building's interior, "hadn't been disturbed for 50 years. The whole interior was a time capsule from 1910."

TIMELINE: The second floor used to house the 52-room Arlington Hotel. The ground floor had the hotel's lobby and other retail businesses. The hotel closed shortly after Badcock furniture store took over the ground floor, about 1946 or 1947, Ferrell said. The second floor was likely converted to low-rent apartments and eventually vacated, she said. Ferrell bought the building three years ago with former business partner Bob Harrell. Badcock moved out of in October, and renovations began in early January.

MOVE-IN DATE: July 2005.

FOR INFORMATION: Call Dallas Coffield at Smith & Associates, 839-3800, or go to smithandassociates.com.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/02/18/Citytimes/The_Arlington.shtml

[FLHawk]

Here's some updated news on SkyPoint (from a promotional email):

"We’re pleased to tell you that our SkyPoint marketing center will open on Saturday, March 5 at 400 N. Tampa Street, Suite 100. Hours are Monday through Friday, 10:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m; Saturday, 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m; and Sunday, Noon to 5:00 p.m. Sales will not begin until later in the spring, but until then, the center is open for information purposes. Our center will be staffed by Smith & Associates, who will conduct our sales for SkyPoint. For directions or other information, please call the center at (813) 839-3800.

We encourage you to come by the center at your earliest convenience. You can walk through a full-size model unit, check out the finishes, look at floorplans, and get a taste of what life at SkyPoint will be like. Even more importantly, the official member list for SkyPoint will be compiled from the names of those who visit the marketing center before the start of sales. As a list member, you will be informed of the latest project news by e-mail prior to the beginning of our sales process and instructed on how you’ll need to proceed to secure your new home—having received this e-mail does not mean that you are on the member list. Again, you will need to sign up for that at the marketing center.

Thank you again for your interest in SkyPoint and for sharing our excitement about it. Preliminary work is being done on the SkyPoint site, and we will break ground later this spring. We look forward to telling you more in the weeks to come and hope you will make this your new home."

And finally, the website - www.skypointcondos.com.

It's all good...

[Jasonhouse]

These developers aren't screwing around, and judging by the quickening pace lately, buyers aren't either.

[Dale]

So would they break ground and begin sales at the same time ?

[Jasonhouse]

Not quite, but it seems as though they have it worked out quite nicely that construction will commence shortly thereafter, just like Trump Tower is doing.

[jobe]

This is definitley good news. As much as I love the Channelside area, this part of town is much more my style. Channelside, to me, is becoming too much of a tourist area. You can blame that on Hooters and the like. Plus, with the retail component in the bottom of this building, we'll see a resurgence of dining, bars, etc. in the area.

I spoke with the developer on the project and he told me that they built a similar project in the Midtown area of Atlanta a few years back - people realized ridiculous returns on their money. Now Midtown is the hot part of town in Atlanta. I'm hoping for the same thing here.

[Jasonhouse]

^Then you won't like hearing that a Bennigan's is going into the Shops as well...

[FLHawk]

A couple articles re: development on Franklin in today's area papers.

Susan Thurston has an column on Skypoint and "attainable houseing" in the Times.
http://www.stpetersburgtimes.com/2005/03/04/Citytimes/Making_urban_life_att.shtml

Of special interest are some of the points brought up by Steve Otto in the Trib (potentially good news for the Kress bldg facade, bad news for the Maas Bros bldg).

http://www.tampatribune.com/MGBL8QQSV5E.html

New City About To Spring Forth Along Franklin
STEVE OTTO
Published: Mar 4, 2005

It helps when your walking partner is Mayor Pam.
People come out of offices to say hello. Even the homeless in Massey Park wave and say howdy to the mayor.

And you learn stuff.

Did you know that in the next 90 to 120 days, the new owner of the property that the old Maas Brothers store downtown occupies is going to demolish the whole thing? He has already said he is going to build a massive condominium project on the spot.

It's a bittersweet story when you consider the memories and what that old store meant to downtown Tampa. But it is a building that cannot be saved, and its demolition will be one of the catalysts to a new downtown.

Did you know that if the city gets an applied-for HUD grant, it will be working with the Doran Jason Group on turning the old Kress building into a twin- tower condo, and at the same time save and restore the wonderful facade of the Kress building in the middle of the two towers? I don't know if one tower will be named ``Five'' and the other ``Ten,'' but it would nifty.

We hiked up North Franklin, where they are working on the empty Badcock furniture building. ``See where it dead ends up there?'' the mayor pointed. ``We are going to make Franklin a through street that goes by the state office building on Tampa Street.''

That's only a part of the larger plan to turn the east-west roads into two-way streets again and to replace the parallel parking downtown with angled parking.


Another New Tampa

But the story the mayor wanted to put out was what was happening at the north end of downtown. We were crossing the street near the Arlington condo project and ran into a local developer who was standing on Royal Street just off Franklin. He said he is ready (city permitting) to construct an apartment complex. ``There's plenty of condos going up downtown already,'' he said. ``One thing retailers and restaurant owners like is apartment dwellers. They tend to eat out more often and use retail stores more than condo owners.''

It was a fascinating walk. The mayor pointed to an empty lot just north of the Goody Goody restaurant where a new senior living building is about to go up. Everywhere you look are the signs of things ``about to happen.''

They won't all happen. It doesn't work that way. And there are holes that may not be filled for a long time. The international owners of the old Floridan Hotel keep making noise, but nothing happens. There are plenty of empty storefronts that just sit and wait.

But it is the amount of activity that is going on that surprises you.


Shadows Of The Colossus

Lately the attention has been on Channelside and that colossus of condos that the Donald is about to put up on the river.

I'm telling you the real action is already under way on Franklin and the surrounding streets.

You can still walk in the middle of North Franklin Street in the middle of the day and not sweat getting run over by a car. But you can feel it coming.

If it was one or two developers with grandiose schemes, you might put it in the same basket with the dozens of other dreams that never happened.

Now people are talking to one another. The guy who owns one block is talking about parking with the people who own the next. Permits are being applied for, and real money is beginning to show up.

The Donald's tower is going to be getting all the attention in the coming months, but you might keep watch on what is about to happen on Franklin Street. It is a new Tampa.

[smiley]

Well, I will be really upset when Maas Bros is demolished - I am sure they could have save the shell, but I don't have the money so I guess I can't complain too loudly. The rest is promising. Let's get on with it . . .

[Jasonhouse]

After being origionally indifferent about the Maas building, I am dissapointed to see it go. It may be rather bland architecture, but since so much has already been knocked down, it's pretty unique to Tampa these days.

I didn't know about any twin towers at the Kress building, or of the senior center and planned apartments on north Franklin.


We need some basic info for these two planned condo projects, and anything else sizable. I'll put it on the development list.

[smiley]

I knew there was something in the works for kress that involved tearing some stuff down (I think I posted that a while ago) but not any details.

The senior center was mentioned once (10 stories I think) in the paper but hten went quiet. not my favorite type of project, but so be it . . .

I know nothing about the apartments, but I like it, namely because they can build it without all the sales crap. My guess is 6-8 stories.

[Jasonhouse]

Well yeah, we knew something was up with the Kress, but we didn't know what. The one rendering I saw for it, was for a much smaller, lowrise project, that basically turned the buildings into a mixed-use space.


I like senior centers. Those old folks have to go somewhere.

[smiley]

Well senior centers are fine, but they don't add much to the vibrancy of a downtown - otherwise St. Pete would have been rocking years ago. Like I said, that's ok, as long as there is other stuff.

[Dale]

My impression of Doran Jason -and I could be entirely wrong - is that they've been around forever, hatched lot's of plans (inc. a the 30-story Tamp Financial Center), and actually accomplishe very little, at least downtown.

[FLHawk]

Well, if THEY can't do it, I would hope that they'd sell this property to some developers who can make things happen. Now that N. Franklin seems to be a "hot" development market in Tampa, there's no reason for that property to be dormant and continue to decay.

[smiley]

I saw their lawyer at a meeting on tv talking about the delays and how they have plans. They were obviously holding the property until it became useful - I can't blame them. Most owners in downtown have done that.

[Jasonhouse]

I was thinking, how on Earth will they ever get development going in the NE part of the CBD? Those blocks north and east of the Fed Court are quite hideous.


What Franklin St REALLY needs is for a few developers and retailers to put the "mall" back in Franklin St. In a few years, surely there will be demand for the kinds of stores seen in other cities' downtowns.

[FLHawk]

I stopped by the new SkyPoint sales office today while at the Gasparilla Art Show. These guys spent a boatload of money on marketing! The nice sales lady in pink told me that they will be breaking ground end of April. The building will be 32 floors (which I think we already knew) and looks to be made of primarily glass. The units are definitely not spacious, but that's not the allure of SkyPoint.

By the way, had to wait in line 20 minutes just to get in the door, so the interest level certainly seems to be high.

[Jasonhouse]

As it's turning out, the interest level for urban development in Tampa is rather stratospheric. Not a day goes by where I'm not shocked to read that such and such development sold out in a month, or sold most units before marketing even began. I remember when all of these projects came to light, and how we were all amazed, and just knew that like half of them would die on paper. As it's turned out, only two proposals for condo projects have wallowed. One became TTT (was called "Presidential Tower"), and other is DT Channelside, which nobody knows what is going on with that.

[Lakelander]

Sorry to hear about the Maas Brothers Building. Up to this point, I was still holding out hope that, at least the facade or one of the buildings could be saved. Oh well, document it and set up a display in the new history museum. Any word on the Floridian Hotel? It would be nice to see it renovated back into a hotel.

[Agent Orange]

Any word on the Floridian Hotel? It would be nice to see it renovated back into a hotel.

I think it would be wonderful myself it were renovated and possibly restored into its original period style. I do love modern buildings and interiors, but since Tampa lacks highly visible signs of history in downtown, having a significant piece of property displaying the city's past would be valuable. They might find it more profitable to have say 1/3 hotel rooms and 2/3 condo units. I'm not sure how much demand for hotel rooms there will be in coming years, esp that part of downtown.

[smiley]

IF they did a good job, their demand would be very high - not that many rooms in there either and they could probably charge a lot once the area develops a bit, which it appears to be doing.

[smiley]

Zimna8080 directed us to this site (http://www.pavonetti.com/confidential.htm) in the Tampa Development thread regarding a mysterious "conversion" project. But, upon examination, I thought I would put this here, too - you'll see why:

http://www.pavonetti.com/Images/Confidential.jpg

As I wrote in the other thread:

Ok, here's the deal with this picture - this is the Maas Brothers lot. To the right is the TECO building - across the street, near the bottom, is the front of the Franklin Exchange. Behind it is the little 12 story Gold Bank building. To the extreme right is the Tampa Theater building .This is definately the Maas lot.

[Dale]

Is this the design for the Patel project specifically, or do we know for sure ?

[smiley]

No idea. This is the first I have seen and the site is very ambiguous. Though that is actually the only project I have heard of for that site, so I guess we just have to wait.

[Dale]

The reason I believe it *could* be the Patel project is because the site features other known projects, like Grand Central.

[Jasonhouse]

Wasn't Patel's project supposed to be like 28 floors? That's about what that tower looks like.

[zimna8080]

Is this the design for the Patel project specifically, or do we know for sure ?

I called Nick Pavonetti ... this project has been cancelled and is not Patel's. This proposal was from the block's previous owner. Oh well, I thought the tower was pretty cool too. He needs to update his website.

I called Pradip Patel, too - he wouldn't give me any information. I'll see him Friday at the downtown development forum and will bug him then.

Hope that helps.

[Dale]

^ Thanks ! Glad I wasn't emotionally wedded to the cancelled design. :)

[smiley]

Just in case anyone is interested the Residences at franklin broke ground last week.

[FLHawk]

There's an interesting rendering of the plans for the Kress Building flanked by twin towers (look to be approximately 21 stories each) on the Doran Jason Group's website under current development projects - http://www.doranjasongroup.com/main.html.

Maybe someone else can post this image?

[Jasonhouse]

^Eww, and quite homely...I pray those commieblock slabs aren't what we end up with.

[Jasonhouse]

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/8KressBlockRendering2.jpg

[loureed]

renderers are so smart by giving the sky that color to make the project look passable.

[Lakelander]

How does something this horrible even make it out of the office? The 80's era passed us by 15 years ago. What's the chance of the city approving a design this bland?

[smiley]

I think some on the city council will object - though not enough NIMBY's - Iorio, who knows.

What is up with the huge parking garage right next to the "preserved' building? Even more questionable - why do they have most of the windows on the part of the buildings facing each other instead of facing out - where the views are - are they promoting voyeurism?

I completely agree - how can they even bring this out as mildly passable - even worse - I bet they could probably sell it if the city approves it.

[Jasonhouse]

This simply must be a schematic to represent scale and general mass, not the actual aestetic that will be used... At least I sure hope so...

[gstolze]

This is a link to a brochure from the downtown partnership. There is a rendering of a building at the same location. Looks a little different....

http://www.tampasdowntown.com/vision4.pdf

[Lakelander]

That design features less units, but it fits into the surrounding area pretty well.

[Jasonhouse]

^I'm all but certain that is a misprint, that they meant "23 story", not 23 unit. I dont' think it's possible that a building of that scale could house only 23 units, unless they were HUGE.

[Lakelander]

^Oh, I know, but the second rendering has one 23 story tower. The one posted here, has 2 - 20+ story towers, one which has repaced a historic retail building on the corner.

[Jasonhouse]

I think a key allure of this project would be to keep the Kress and Woolworth facades, and restore them. If they city has to pony up some $$$ via tax breaks or something to make it happen, they need to do so. Both facades are quite unique to this city, and should be maintained IMO.

[FLHawk]

Just drove by the Residences on Franklin project site over lunch, and they've got some heavy equipment out there moving Earth. Good to see another project get started.

[Jasonhouse]

^Saw the same thing about an hour ago...

GC@Kennedy is deinfitely U/C. They're driving piles, it looks like.

No additional movement on any other site that I saw.

The Bellamy is up to the 15th floor and The Alagon is up to the 19th.

That's about it.

[smiley]

IT will be nice to have two big cranes at each end of 12 street in a few months (hopefully)

[Jasonhouse]

Condo Complex Planned For Site Of Kress Store

Published: May 3, 2005
Tampa Tribune



TAMPA - A Miami-based development company is moving ahead with plans to revive the former Kress department store building in downtown Tampa as the anchor of a three-tower, 975-unit condominium complex.
The city council on Thursday is expected to schedule a public hearing in June to rezone the Kress building at 811 N. Franklin St., the remainder of that block, and a neighboring block for residential development. The Jason Doran Group of Florida Inc. is the project developer.

John LaRocca, Jason Doran's agent in Tampa, said the company has conceptual plans for the project, but no detailed plans. ``Their intent is to move quickly,'' he said.

Plans call for 975 residential units, totaling 1,186,705 square feet. Plans include about 40,000 square feet of ground floor retail; about 41,000 square feet of business, professional and medical offices; and about 28,100 square feet of lobbies and service areas.

``It's definitely significant,'' said Mark Huey, the city's economic development administrator. ``It has been one of the properties within the Franklin Street corridor that has been long undeveloped and continuing to deteriorate and be a cloud over the Franklin Street potential.''

The Kress building opened in 1904.


http://www.tampatrib.com/Business/MGBNFPTF98E.html

[Jasonhouse]

^Holy Shiza! 975 units and 40k sqft of retail....Very nice.

[matttampa]

Holy cow! I wonder how high this thing will be.

[FLHawk]

Anyone know what's going in at the lot on N. Florida and Harrison? They've had construction crews there lately, but I can't recall what project is going in at that site.

[smiley]

two or three story office building. . . which is cool. fill those lots baby

[Jasonhouse]

City ready to begin extension of street

Reconnecting N Franklin Street will link the north part of downtown to Tampa Heights.

By SAUNDRA AMRHEIN, Times Staff Writer
Published May 20, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Tampa Heights could soon open to more residential and commercial development after the city reconnects N Franklin Street.

Work on the Franklin extension was set to begin this week after a kickoff ceremony Wednesday with Mayor Pam Iorio and business and community leaders.

The city expects that the nearly $1-million project will take about five months. Once completed, the extension will link the north part of downtown to Tampa Heights.

The extension will jog around the Park Trammell building, known as the State of Florida office building, opening two blocks of Franklin from Fortune to Scott streets. The project also will remove concrete barriers blocking the intersection of Royal Street and Franklin.

Franklin once ran uninterrupted like Florida and Nebraska avenues until it was divided in the 1970s to make room for the office building, city and community leaders say.

Reopening Franklin is expected to benefit projects planned for the area, including the former Arlington Hotel at Franklin and Fortune.

"(The extension) means a lot to our building," said Stephanie Ferrell, who is rehabilitating the Arlington for residential and office use.

Ferrell says her group lobbied the city for three years for the extension, which she hopes will bring more traffic to local businesses. She also envisions a neighborhood block that's friendly to pedestrians.

"I think (the extension) will provide a more residential-friendly area, and it will be easier for residents to get to places without getting on Florida Avenue or Tampa Street."

Several weeks ago, the city finally got state approval to go around the office building with the road extension, said Steve Daignault, the city's administrator of public works and utility services.

"When you have this disconnection, you lose the continuity of the commercial tie with downtown, so it feels separate," he said. "And I think there are a lot of people who would like to be connected with downtown."

[FLHawk]

Here's a nice fluff piece regarding current and future developments on North Franklin Street downtown.

Nothing really new here, but just reinforces how much Franklin will be changing in the (hopefully near) future.

http://www.tampasdowntown.com/intown060705c.htm

[FLHawk]

New development on Franklin Street -
http://www.tampatribune.com/Business/MGBMZDOFAAE.html

Franklin Street New Hip Downtown Address
By JANIS D. FROELICH jfroelich@tampatrib.com
Published: Jun 23, 2005



TAMPA - Dan Sefair, of Mize & Sefair Properties Inc., is tired of his commute from New Tampa to his Ybor City office. So he's building a luxury town house downtown with space for a few others to join him.
Sefair plans to build a four- story project called City Lofts at the north end of Franklin Street. Each of the four units will have a garage level topped with three floors of living space and a rooftop area.

Prices will start at $800,000 to $900,000, and construction could begin as soon as December, Sefair said.

The project is the first high- end structure announced in an area of downtown known more for its empty storefronts.

That appears to be changing. Two other residential projects are under construction in the area: Residences on Franklin Street, 1108-1124 N. Franklin St.; and The Arlington, 1209-1227 N. Franklin St.

Still, one of the other developers there wonders if Sefair's pricing is too ambitious.

``I don't know about that working here. That appears pretty risky,'' said Luciano Prida Jr., a partner in the Residences on Franklin, which has sold 33 of its 40 units for $220,000 to $650,000.

There has been similar success at The Arlington, which has sold all 21 units for $147,000 to $325,000.

Prida also said that downtown developers usually need higher density than what Sefair's plan calls for to make a development profitable.

Mize & Sefair, which is building City Lofts at Fortune and Franklin streets, also is developing residential projects in North Hyde Park and Ybor City. The 5th Avenue Lofts at Ybor City is planned to have eight units. The town house project in North Hyde Park will have 17 units.


Reporter Janis D. Froelich can be reached at (813) 259-7143.

[randommichael]

I don't think that will work. I wouldn't want to live in a $800,000-$900,000 townhouse in that area...unless of course the whole area changes soon.

[moxwax]

The area does seem to be changing at a fast pace though IMO... It won't be empty storefronts for long.

[Jasonhouse]

That does sound like a lame project for the area... Most alarming is the very low density, the the poor streetlife (since there is no ground level commercial), and the very poor affordability. Hopefully the city will somehow stop the project, and insist on a larger project more in line with the overall plan for DT.

[smiley]

I doubt the city will do that - they all think "walkable" means townhouses.

[Jasonhouse]

^I don't know man... Garage doors on homes fronting Franklin St smack dab in downtown?

We all know that Tampa is a suburban, automobile loving city, but hopefully there is a limit to it. I certainly hope that the city won't approve a project treating DT basically like a suburb.

[FLHawk]

I agree. It's fine for neighborhoods in Ybor or South Tampa, but what would this be adding to North Franklin, considering that this is THE area considered to have the most potential in the Vision Plan?

[smiley]

Hmm, across teh street from the 375 foot courthouse? What the . . .

Council tells developer to come back with smaller plan
Members are divided on a plan that would preserve some history but add many condos.
By JANET ZINK, Times Staff Writer
Published June 24, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


TAMPA - The City Council on Thursday rejected a proposal to redevelop the Kress Building and surrounding downtown parcels into a 975-unit condominium complex.

But council members want developer Doran Jason, based in Coral Gables, to come back at the end of July with a scaled-down plan for the two blocks on Franklin Street between Polk and Tyler streets.

Doran Jason's plans call for saving the entire Kress Building, a former department store that's on the National Register of Historic Places, and facades of the old Woolworth and Newberry department store buildings. Behind the facades, they would build condo towers of 27 and 24 stories.

But the developer's plans to build a 44-story tower on an adjacent block troubled some council members.

"It's too much for this site," said council member Linda Saul-Sena.

Council member John Dingfelder argued that the large residential developments belong downtown.

"Downtown is downtown," he said. "Buildings should be tall."

Jim Shimberg, an attorney for Doran Jason, said the developer needed to put a large number of condominiums on the site in order to cover the high cost of building parking and preserving the historic structures while still keeping the sales prices for units low.

Plans call for selling efficiencies in the towers for as low as $130,000, he said.

Doran Jason also offered to contribute $500,000 to turn Polk Street into a two-way street, part of the city's long-range transportation plan for downtown.

A motion to approve the rezoning that would have paved the way for the proposal failed 3-3, with Saul-Sena, Kevin White and Rose Ferlita voting against it. Council member Shawn Harrison excused himself from the discussion and vote because of a conflict of interest.

The council voted to reconsider the rezoning July 28 at City Hall at 315 E Kennedy Blvd.

Janet Zink can be reached at 226-3401 or jzink@sptimes.com

[Last modified June 24, 2005, 00:45:09]
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/06/24/Hillsborough/Council_tells_develop.shtml

Vote Stalls Franklin Street Towers
By ELLEN GEDALIUS egedalius@tampatrib.com
Published: Jun 24, 2005




TAMPA - A major development along Franklin Street could add 975 residential units to Tampa's downtown.
Tampa City Council members, Mayor Pam Iorio, the Tampa Downtown Partnership and community business leaders have said redeveloping North Franklin Street is a priority.

The once-bustling shopping strip now is a series of rundown buildings, with ``condemned'' stickers affixed to their doors.

With a simple vote Thursday, city council members could have taken another step toward redeveloping Franklin.

But they didn't.

Several council members said they were concerned that the proposed towers would be too tall for the area.

Others said they worried about the impact 975 residential units could have on transportation and other infrastructure.

``It is significantly taller, larger, denser than its neighbors,'' Councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena said.

Plans call for restoring the Kress building on North Franklin Street and building three condo towers between Tyler and Polk streets. One tower would be about 277 feet; one would be about 249 feet; the third would be about 423 feet or 44 stories.

Units would sell for $130,000 to $300,000, said Jim Shimberg, an attorney for project developer Doran Jason Group.

``We're all under the impression these units are going to go very quickly,'' Shimberg said.

But some council members had hesitations.

A 423-foot tower is too tall in an area usually reserved for buildings no taller than 120 feet, Saul-Sena said.

Councilwoman Mary Alvarez said she would feel better if the tower were about 10 stories shorter.

``Downtown is a place where you went shopping, where you had nice-looking buildings,'' Alvarez said. ``That building is just too high and does not conform with what's happening on Franklin Street.''

Shimberg struggled to understand why the council asked for height restrictions when city officials have been so supportive of finding ways to turn Tampa's downtown into an area where people not only work but live, too.

``All we've heard for years and years is: `We want residential development downtown,' '' Shimberg said.

Councilman John Dingfelder tried to throw another kink into the plans. The city has plans to turn Polk Street into a two-way road that could cost about $1 million.

Would the developer, Dingfelder asked, be willing to foot part of the bill?

Shimberg was reluctant, pointing out that the developer plans to preserve the Kress building, which could come with a steep price tag. The Kress building opened in 1904.

Although adamant about persuading the developer to contribute toward turning Polk into a two-way street, Dingfelder had fewer concerns about the height of the building.

The proposed Trump Tower Tampa is taller, Dingfelder said. Condos in the Channel District are tall, too.

``I don't really get it, to be honest,'' Dingfelder said. ``To me, it seems pretty arbitrary. Downtown is downtown.''

Dingfelder, Alvarez and Gwen Miller voted in favor of the project. Saul-Sena, Kevin White and Rose Ferlita voted against it. Councilman Shawn Harrison recused himself, citing a conflict of interest.

The 3-3 vote left council members struggling to figure out the status of the proposal. Ultimately, they agreed to allow the developer to return July 28 with revised plans.


Reporter Ellen Gedalius can be reached at (813) 259-7679.

http://tampatrib.com/floridametronews/MGBMUF5YBAE.html

[randommichael]

I had really hoped they would approve this project.

[Agent Orange]

Well, it's really ashame they've had to scale this project down. This tower is just a couple of blocks north of a few other 40 storey buildings, so what gives? The best thing about this project was the fact that the units were/are going to be relatively affordable. Plus, he met their demands by preserving the façades of three historic bdgs. You would have thought the city would be have been all for this. And the disappointment in Tampa's civic leaders continues...

[randommichael]

It really doesn't make sense to me. The guy is right, buildings in downtown are supposed to be tall. It was affordable too. I don't understand how they can keep turning down projects like this one, but approve a project much smaller and much more expensive. Sometimes I wonder how good the planning really is around here. What will the city look like in a few years if these types of buildings aren't permitted?

[Jasonhouse]

The City Council on Thursday rejected a proposal to redevelop the Kress Building and surrounding downtown parcels into a 975-unit condominium complex.

But council members want developer Doran Jason, based in Coral Gables, to come back at the end of July with a scaled-down plan for the two blocks on Franklin Street between Polk and Tyler streets.


Several council members said they were concerned that the proposed towers would be too tall for the area.

What in the blue fuck are they smoking? Scaled down????

They let 30-40 story behemoth towers get built on the fringe of DT where they are totally out of context and stick out like a sore thumb (and there is a hieght limit of 60ft, no less)... Yet they want a developer to "scale down" a project in the heart of DT's core, which is sandwiched in between current and u/c projects that are around 400ft???

Oh yeah, this is going to require a few letters be sent next week...:ohno:

[randommichael]

There has to be another reason they denied it. The height wasn't out of line with any other building in the area. I agree we should send a few letters.

[Jasonhouse]

^I will probably attend the meeting, and just might even offer them a piece fo my mind while I'm there. This is is just so lame, it defies reason.

The guy is offering affordable units, a preservation of all facades, and the Kress building in its entirety... He will pay for 1/2 of the cost of converting Polk St to two-way traffic, and his project will bring hundreds of residents to an area that is often dead 24/7 (not just after 5). The buildings' hieght are well within the context of nearby highrises and the DT context in general. And to top it all off, he isn't asking for any tax breaks or other handouts to offset the costs of historic preservation... And they DENIED approval of the project!!!!

[Lakelander]

wow, now this is just outright crazy? If you can't build a 44 story tower downtown, where can you build it? From reading the article, it would seem everyone would be happy to get a dense project, along Franklin Street, that also preserves the historical facades. Well if these guys are too much for you all, I know a couple of sites I can direct them to....in Jacksonville.

[randommichael]

Well maybe they should recommend he building a 44 story building in Brandon...maybe it would fit in better in that type of setting. I couldn't imagine a 44 story building in a downtown...certainly way too high! Okay, seriously, what are these people thinking?

This is a perfect project due to all the things mentioned by Jason above. There has to be some underlying reason besides the height.

[smiley]

No, a few of the commissioners often get these weird ideas about "a village" and lose their perspective. I might write a letter. . . I suggest everyone else do the same. Let's bring them back to reality. And make sure to note that you are in the desired demographic and that you, as of yet, have no financial interest and that if they don't allow this kind of perfect concept - you'll just move to St. Pete or somewhere intelligent- these are only suggestions, of course - and be polite.

On the right side of this page:

http://www.tampagov.net/dept_City_Council/

[multifamilyinvestor]

Has anyone seen a rendering showing the 44 story building? I saw the one picture of the two smaller buildings sandwiching Kress.

This sort of reminds me of what happened to Grady Pridgen's Bayway Lofts project in St. Pete. It originally was 42 stories and got scalled back to 29 because "it was too tall for the area" which happens to be 3 blocks from central and 2 blocks from the water. (Site is on 3rd Ave. N. and 2nd St. N. ) Apparently our city council members feel that skyscrapers should be confined to 1 or 2 blocks. As far as i am concerned, I think they are developing the N. part of Channel District too low as well.

[Jasonhouse]

Council Thinks And Acts Small On Franklin Street Project

Tampa tribune
Editorial
Published: Jun 27, 2005

For more than 20 years, city leaders have tried to figure out ways to revive North Franklin Street as the bustling heart of downtown. Various projects have been proposed, always to be abandoned like so many buildings there.
So you would think the city council would be excited that a developer is serious about building a major residential complex on Franklin.

Instead, the council last week nitpicked the plans and sent the developer packing with instructions to come back with something smaller, something sure to cost home buyers more.

The project calls for three condo towers, which would hold 975 residential units. The tallest would be 44 stories. The others, 27 and 24 stories. True, the towers would be taller than surrounding buildings, but there are other large structures in the area.

After all, as council member John Dingfelder put it, ``Downtown is downtown. Buildings should be tall.''

The objections might make sense if the proposed buildings were looming over the waterfront or disrupting a public space. But this is downtown's core, a stretch desperate for people and activity.

Furthermore, the developer, Doran Jason Group, plans to restore the historic Kress Building as part of the project, a longtime but elusive city goal.

Still, members Linda Saul-Sena, Rose Ferlita and Kevin White rejected the developer's rezoning request. Shawn Harrison had to recuse himself from the vote because of a conflict. So the 3-3 vote - with Dingfelder, Gwen Miller and Mary Alvarez in favor - forces the developer to revise the plan.

If the developer follows the misguided council members' advice to think small, the result will be far higher unit prices, ensuring that downtown residences remain too expensive for most people. The current plan would enable the builder to sell units for as low as $130,000, allowing a greater mix of incomes among downtown dwellers.

Perhaps Mayor Pam Iorio can influence the three council members before the July 28 rezoning meeting. It would be a shame if the council's high- handedness toppled a rare opportunity to bring new life and affordability to Franklin Street.

[The Mad Hatter!!]

i think its quite stupid to deny a 44 story downtown scraper...because downtowns the area where youre suppose to build big,and thats why downtowns have higher densities,height limits larger FAR'S.ETC

[FloridaFuture]

I agree, if you can't get a 44 story tower downtown where can you get it?

The developer better not come back with anything less then towers of 35,20,and 20 or I will be mad. :down:

BTW, I'm new here.

[Jasonhouse]

^Actually, the shorter ones were apparently OK...Just the tall one was the problem.

I think the developer should come back with 37, 29, and 26... This would knock the tallest down a good 60-70ft, and only raise the two shortest towers about 20-25ft. Then, by increasing unit size (and thus price, unfortunately), he could easily shave off 75-100 units.

Either that, or the developer should tell the city to stick it up thier ass and go build in St Pete.

[FloridaFuture]

Either that, or the developer should tell the city to stick it up thier ass and go build in St Pete.

HA HA! LOL

To Tampa City Council: If you let them build it they will come!

[leglace]

Council Thinks And Acts Small On Franklin Street Project

Tampa tribune
Editorial
Published: Jun 27, 2005

For more than 20 years, city leaders have tried to figure out ways to revive North Franklin Street as the bustling heart of downtown. Various projects have been proposed, always to be abandoned like so many buildings there.
So you would think the city council would be excited that a developer is serious about building a major residential complex on Franklin.

Instead, the council last week nitpicked the plans and sent the developer packing with instructions to come back with something smaller, something sure to cost home buyers more.

The project calls for three condo towers, which would hold 975 residential units. The tallest would be 44 stories. The others, 27 and 24 stories. True, the towers would be taller than surrounding buildings, but there are other large structures in the area.

After all, as council member John Dingfelder put it, ``Downtown is downtown. Buildings should be tall.''

The objections might make sense if the proposed buildings were looming over the waterfront or disrupting a public space. But this is downtown's core, a stretch desperate for people and activity.

Furthermore, the developer, Doran Jason Group, plans to restore the historic Kress Building as part of the project, a longtime but elusive city goal.

Still, members Linda Saul-Sena, Rose Ferlita and Kevin White rejected the developer's rezoning request. Shawn Harrison had to recuse himself from the vote because of a conflict. So the 3-3 vote - with Dingfelder, Gwen Miller and Mary Alvarez in favor - forces the developer to revise the plan.

If the developer follows the misguided council members' advice to think small, the result will be far higher unit prices, ensuring that downtown residences remain too expensive for most people. The current plan would enable the builder to sell units for as low as $130,000, allowing a greater mix of incomes among downtown dwellers.

Perhaps Mayor Pam Iorio can influence the three council members before the July 28 rezoning meeting. It would be a shame if the council's high- handedness toppled a rare opportunity to bring new life and affordability to Franklin Street.

Sorry I had to ask. Was this article written from the future? Today is June 25th.

[Jasonhouse]

I'm crafty like that....




OK, but seriously...I assume they misdated it online, or it won't be in print until Monday. :)

[tonyff67]

Dingfelder asked the developer if they could bring all the buildings to the same hieght. If they were all 32 stories, they would still have the same number of total floors, and hopefully satisfy the council's concerns.

[FloridaFuture]

Dingfelder asked the developer if they could bring all the buildings to the same hieght. If they were all 32 stories, they would still have the same number of total floors, and hopefully satisfy the council's concerns.

IMO, I think that would suck. In order fo DT to look and feel successful we need a diversity in building heights. Especially since they would be close to Skypoint and the courthouse. All of those buildings would have about the same height. :)

[tonyff67]

^ I agree, but I don't think the developer should lose any units since they have done everything the city has asked, and with them all being the same hieght, Dingfelder would get what he wants and the developer won't lose anything.

I will take 3, 32 story buildings before I want the developer to pack his bags.

[FloridaFuture]

I will take 3, 32 story buildings before I want the developer to pack his bags.

Oh, I would take the towers over nothing any day. :)

[leglace]

This is an example of why I think Tampa is doing more discouraging than encouraging to turn the city around. In my experience, when we have unordinary problems with a municipality or a county, we just tell our land entitlement people to look elsewhere going forward because it costs too much to go back and forth presenting designs only to be told to go fly a kite by the city. We are supposed to be giving these guys incentives, yet sticking to our guns in more meaningful things.

Linda Saul-Sena, Rose Ferlita and Kevin White rejected the scale of this, yet the city allowed the Pinnacle to be built in Channelside. Think about how silly that is. Someone needs to ask those 3 why? Other developers are watching all this. This sends a message that the city wants to scale down.

[smiley]

What do you do?

[smiley]

BY the way, that editorial can be found at

http://tampatrib.com/News/MGB52KA6DAE.html

You should cut and paste it and send it to the city council.

[Jasonhouse]

What do you do?


Move somewhere else if you're a resident who wants a vibrant, urban place to live... Build somewhere else if you're a developer who wants to build urban projects without having profits needlessly drained by unqualified, uneducated local officials who might as well be named Billy Bob. And let's not even bring up the corrupt, bigoted Cro-Magnons running the county government.

[Agent Orange]

uneducated local officials who might as well be named Billy Bob.

Or Bobbie-Sue. Don't forget our admirable female civic servants. :nono:

[leglace]

Its a shame. Tampa, so much potential, so much misguided leadership.

[smiley]

Cut and paste teh editorial - I bet you they will approve the deal with some very small tweaking the second time around - say 380 feet instead of 425 (annoying, but so be it.)

[moxwax]

Message sent...


Members of the Council,
I would like to draw your attention to an article recently published in the Tampa Tribune:

Council Thinks And Acts Small On Franklin Street Project

Tampa Tribune
Editorial
Published: Jun 27, 2005

For more than 20 years, city leaders have tried to figure out ways to revive North Franklin Street as the bustling heart of downtown. Various projects have been proposed, always to be abandoned like so many buildings there.
So you would think the city council would be excited that a developer is serious about building a major residential complex on Franklin.

Instead, the council last week nitpicked the plans and sent the developer packing with instructions to come back with something smaller, something sure to cost home buyers more.
The project calls for three condo towers, which would hold 975 residential units. The tallest would be 44 stories. The others, 27 and 24 stories. True, the towers would be taller than surrounding buildings, but there are other large structures in the area.

After all, as council member John Dingfelder put it, ``Downtown is downtown. Buildings should be tall.''

The objections might make sense if the proposed buildings were looming over the waterfront or disrupting a public space. But this is downtown's core, a stretch desperate for people and activity.

Furthermore, the developer, Doran Jason Group, plans to restore the historic Kress Building as part of the project, a longtime but elusive city goal.

Still, members Linda Saul-Sena, Rose Ferlita and Kevin White rejected the developer's rezoning request. Shawn Harrison had to recuse himself from the vote because of a conflict. So the 3-3 vote - with Dingfelder, Gwen Miller and Mary Alvarez in favor - forces the developer to revise the plan.

If the developer follows the misguided council members' advice to think small, the result will be far higher unit prices, ensuring that downtown residences remain too expensive for most people. The current plan would enable the builder to sell units for as low as $130,000, allowing a greater mix of incomes among downtown dwellers.

Perhaps Mayor Pam Iorio can influence the three council members before the July 28 rezoning meeting. It would be a shame if the council's high- handedness toppled a rare opportunity to bring new life and affordability to Franklin Street.


When I heard the council rejected this proposal, I was greatly disappointed. My dream (and countless others') is to live in downtown, yet currently there are no affordable options existing or proposed. This project presented an opportunity for many people to move downtown - many people who otherwise could not.

Do not let this opportunity pass! This is a great development that will draw more people to the downtown area, making it more a more vibrant and liveable place and will also draw more jobs and diversity to the downtown area. The project would also provide affordable and attainable housing in the downtown market. Both of these are goals previously set by the council. In addition, the project would restore the facades of the existing Kress and Woolwoorth buildings, which is another goal of the city.

I ask the council to please reconsider approving this project.

[smiley]

Well done. I, on the other hand, could not stop myself from being a bit less nice - not rude, mind you, but I some frustration to express.

[Jasonhouse]

^Haven't sent mine yet, but will this week. We'll see if I can behave myself...;)

[randommichael]

I got several people to sign mine. We are all in our 20's and talked about wanting to move downtown, but prices were keeping us out. We asked the board to approve this as presented the first time around so that prices would be affordable to those in our age group. Of course, I'm having a house built in Riverview, but the board doesn't know that.

[smiley]

Hey, you can always change your mind and move later.

[randommichael]

Hey, you can always change your mind and move later.

yeah if the price isn't too high in downtown

[robbie]

Just joining today. Still venting about the counsel members rejecting the Franklin plan.

[Lakelander]

Here's a rendering of the City Lofts project
http://img139.echo.cx/img139/8359/franklin9972dpi8he.jpg

From UP

Hello, I am the developer of the project. Pretty soon our website will be completed and you will be able to see the proposed project. I will keep you posted when it is complete. You will find that the design is very unique and different from all the other projects in the downtown core. What the reporter failed to mention was proper info on the units. Each unit is Over 3200 sqft/3 bed+Loft (830 sqft master bedroom)/4.5 baths/private elevator in each unit/roof top terrace/2 wet bars-in loft & rooftop/5 levels-All levels over look the living room). Our project is different than a standard condo. Our per sqft is in line with the Residences of Franklin Street (in some cases lower-compared to their units) and other projects being sold in the area. So far we have had an extremely positive response from the City on the proposal. Our intentions were to build large places for those people looking for the urban lifestyle whom did not want to sacrifice square footage. I think that all the projects being proposed/built will make the Franklin Street area a very exciting and enjoyable place to live.
If anyone has any further questions on it, let me know I will do my best to answer them.
137626



[edited by Jasonhouse... This post became corrupted and was restored]

[robbie]

^Haven't sent mine yet, but will this week. We'll see if I can behave myself...;)
You seem to know a lot about this kind of political BS with tall buildings in Tampa. Maybe there is a ligitimate reason for them to request to scale it down. I was as pissed off as everybody else. One of the female members was also apposed to the Trump Tower. She said it was "too big." Do you know if there is the same kind of fire codes in high rise condo's that there is in office buildings? Maybe there would be too much red tape involved and the city doesn't want to deal with that. I'm assuming the city manages fire codes in buildings.

Don't know about you, but I don't think townhouses or small residential boxes are going to be enough to support their "coffe shop" vision. Plus a starbucks will probably open and put the private coffee shops out of biz anyway.

[robbie]

Just saw the rendering of the new Franklin Street box. It's cute and quaint but it looks like something that should be in Hyde Park, Palma Ceia or So Ho. They will be pretty fancy and have lots of square feet but also kinda expensive. The people that live in them will probably have no use for the other parts of Franklin and with all the bums around there, they may never go out in the streets. Sorry Ms. Saul-Sena!

[smiley]

There's no reason other than some of the council think anything over 20 stories is too "Miami" for them. They demand a small town.

[smiley]

I like that townhouse project, but I don't see why you can't mix it up - other cities do. That helps with views and variety.

[FloridaFuture]

That project doesn't look to bad..... urban yet brick, looks nice. just whish it was taller though. :cheers: Do you guys think this project will get approved, or has it all ready?

[robbie]

That project doesn't look to bad..... urban yet brick, looks nice. just whish it was taller though. :cheers: Do you guys think this project will get approved, or has it all ready?
In Tampa they think small!

[Jasonhouse]

Hello, I am the developer of the project. Pretty soon our website will be completed and you will be able to see the proposed project. I will keep you posted when it is complete. You will find that the design is very unique and different from all the other projects in the downtown core. What the reporter failed to mention was proper info on the units. Each unit is Over 3200 sqft/3 bed+Loft (830 sqft master bedroom)/4.5 baths/private elevator in each unit/roof top terrace/2 wet bars-in loft & rooftop/5 levels-All levels over look the living room). Our project is different than a standard condo. Our per sqft is in line with the Residences of Franklin Street (in some cases lower-compared to their units) and other projects being sold in the area. So far we have had an extremely positive response from the City on the proposal. Our intentions were to build large places for those people looking for the urban lifestyle whom did not want to sacrifice square footage. I think that all the projects being proposed/built will make the Franklin Street area a very exciting and enjoyable place to live.
If anyone has any further questions on it, let me know I will do my best to answer them.
137626


Looks nice stylistically speaking, but I definitely oppose it... One question though, where the heck are the garage doors facing (the article said there were garages)? Tampa St?

I still feel that the project is a gross underuse of the site, and doesn't fit well with the city's vision of a vibrant, mixed-use urban setting.

[Jasonhouse]

I like that townhouse project, but I don't see why you can't mix it up - other cities do.

I do. It's DT, in the core. That kind of project is much more appropriate in edge nieghborhoods like Harbour Island, Ybor, Hyde Park or Tampa Hieghts. Low density projects should not be occupying valuable land in a DT core in desperate need of a massive influx of residents and workers, and amenities just to even begin to approach typical urban 'normalcy'. Leaders talk of making Tampa a 'great' city, with a 'vibrant, livable' downtown. Well first, they have to make DT Tampa tolerable. Allowing 4 unit mansions to be built where dozens of units and streel level retail could instead go isn't helping.

[SDK4]

Townhouses and buildings smaller than 5 stories should be nowhere near DT Tampa.

[SDK4]

Make that 10 stories.

[smiley]

There are a lot of building on Franklin that are only 2 or 3 stories tall.

[robbie]

Dingfelder asked the developer if they could bring all the buildings to the same hieght. If they were all 32 stories, they would still have the same number of total floors, and hopefully satisfy the council's concerns.
And with Skypoint being the same height it may look like four in a row. If they are OK with 30ish stories and they build them, it will block the view of the Federal Courthouse and the Floridan from the bridge, but anyway they will still dominate the North DT skyline.

[robbie]

I do. It's DT, in the core. That kind of project is much more appropriate in edge nieghborhoods like Harbour Island, Ybor, Hyde Park or Tampa Hieghts. Low density projects should not be occupying valuable land in a DT core in desperate need of a massive influx of residents and workers, and amenities just to even begin to approach typical urban 'normalcy'. Leaders talk of making Tampa a 'great' city, with a 'vibrant, livable' downtown. Well first, they have to make DT Tampa tolerable. Allowing 4 unit mansions to be built where dozens of units and streel level retail could instead go isn't helping.
I have been having chats with the developer on urbanplanet.org. He said the reason it's that small is because the land is so small. In order to go vertical you need a bigger base for all the cars to be parked within the building. Do you agree with this? About the Kress Building, there are other buildings attached to it on both sides. The north side is the old Woolworth? Was the plan to tear down the buildings on both sides and attach the two high-rises? I thought they wanted to keep the Woolworth part.

[Jasonhouse]

There are a lot of building on Franklin that are only 2 or 3 stories tall.


And if the city has any hope of DT becoming the place they claim they want it to be, nearly all of them will be replaced by larger, denser structures.


I have been having chats with the developer on urbanplanet.org. He said the reason it's that small is because the land is so small. In order to go vertical you need a bigger base for all the cars to be parked within the building. Do you agree with this?

Yes. Obviously, he needs to buy more land on the block, or sell to another developer. IMO, he's stopping short of what he could and should be doing.

(I don't know why in the heck the guy would be on that little site anyways. It gets a fraction of the traffic SSP or SSC get)

[smiley]

I disagree. The old buildings should stay and new stuff should be built around it. The old buildings are built for a walkable, pleasant environment and attract people (when fixed up and occupied). Good downtowns are blends of old and new - big and small (though not one story, drive up places) Thre is ample room to build around what is already there.

[Lakelander]

(I don't know why in the heck the guy would be on that little site anyways. It gets a fraction of the traffic SSP or SSC get)

There could be several reasons. A couple are it gets pretty good hits on search engines, many of the forumers, at least Florida ones, are developers, investors, architects, DDA members, etc. and the forumers tend to act a lot more mature, than the typical ones at SSP and SSC.

As for the topic, I agree with Smiley, the most vibrant street scenes contain a mix of large and small projects. Like the developer also stated on UP, it can get pretty difficult to assemble large plots of land in urban areas, when different land owners have a variety of reasons for holding on to their property.

[Jasonhouse]

^Nice to see it has certainly changed from what it started out as, which was the "protest" site of trolls banned from SSP.

As for the project being discussed, I think the developer sounds like a nice guy, but frankly, I hope his project is denied approval. That end of Franklin is VERY dead, and it is going to remain so if this is the kind of project that gets approved.

[robbie]

And if the city has any hope of DT becoming the place they claim they want it to be, nearly all of them will be replaced by larger, denser structures.




Yes. Obviously, he needs to buy more land on the block, or sell to another developer. IMO, he's stopping short of what he could and should be doing.

(I don't know why in the heck the guy would be on that little site anyways. It gets a fraction of the traffic SSP or SSC get)
He may just be in it to make a quick buck. Remember developers don't have to live in the areas they develop, nor do city council people!

[Jasonhouse]

^I don't think that's the case with this guy at all. Especially since it seems that much of his motivation for building the townhouses is to live in one of them. (I believe the article mentioned that)

[Lakelander]

I also don't think money is his motivation. He situation sounds a lot like mine in Jax. He wants to live in downtown, didn't find anything suitable, so he decided to grab a small plot of land and design his own project.

[smiley]

This article is premature (especially the headline) - but we shall see

Builder Aims Too High For Council

By ELLEN GEDALIUS egedalius@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 28, 2005






TAMPA - Look up: The Floridan Hotel on Florida Avenue is about 200 feet tall.
Nearby, the SkyPoint condominium tower will rise to about 360 feet.

The Sam M. Gibbons U.S. Courthouse is about 375 feet tall.

Along the Hillsborough River, Trump Tower Tampa will soar at 591 feet.

Tampa is growing taller.

But a proposal to build a 423-foot condo tower on North Franklin Street has hit a stumbling block with the Tampa City Council.

It's just too tall, several council members said last month while debating the 44- story project.

``I'm afraid [North Franklin is] going to become a tunnel,'' City Councilwoman Mary Alvarez said Wednesday. ``It has to be compatible to what's around it. Anything above the courthouse and the hotel would be too tall.''

Council members voted 3-3 in June. John Dingfelder and Gwen Miller joined Alvarez in voting for the project. Rose Ferlita, Linda Saul-Sena and Kevin White were opposed. Shawn Harrison recused himself because of a conflict of interest.

They asked the developer to come back with a new plan: A shorter building, with facade work that distinguishes the top from the middle from the base.

The project is scheduled to be reconsidered at today's council meeting.

Jeannette Jason, of the Doran Jason Group, said the developer has tried to redesign the buildings to make them more aesthetically pleasing.

The developer, however, is reluctant to budge on the height. A tall building - with lots of units - is needed to enable the developer to offer condos with prices starting at $130,000. Prices are expected to top out at about $300,000.

``While height was an issue for some, it was something we couldn't change,'' Jason said. ``We want to get work-force housing in there.''


Mayor Praises Plan

To Mayor Pam Iorio and some City Council members, the project is about more than height and aesthetics.

It's about bringing people downtown to live, to be on the streets after 5 p.m. It's about giving people a chance to have a part in the condo craze for $130,000, not $700,000 as at Trump Tower Tampa. It's about redeveloping this often- neglected section of downtown and North Franklin, restoring the historic Kress building, adding retail downtown and creating synergy for other projects to follow.

``That's two full blocks of boarded-up buildings that could be transformed,'' said Iorio, who met with project officials after the proposal failed to win council approval. ``To me, this is a downtown. Height is what downtowns are all about.''

The proposed project spans two city blocks. The north block lies between Tyler Street, Franklin Street, Cass Street and Florida Avenue. The south block lies between Polk Street, Franklin, Cass and Florida.

The developer wants to build a 44-story condo with 574 units on the north block.

On the south block, the Kress building would be retained and rehabilitated - at the developer's expense. Kress is a former department store, opened in 1904.


Retail Space Included

Next door, the developer wants to build two towers, one with 27 stories and 296 residential units and the other with 24 stories and 105 residential units.

Retail space is included at all three buildings.

``It's in a critical area that has been highlighted for redevelopment,'' project attorney Jim Shimberg said.

Alvarez said she would be comfortable with a 20-story building, but anything taller is too tall. She hates the idea of a tunnel effect, often found in New York.

At about 50 feet taller than the federal courthouse, the proposed building is significantly taller, larger and denser than others in the area, Saul- Sena said.

The area usually is reserved for buildings no taller than 120 feet. The taller buildings in the vicinity were exceptions.

Saul-Sena said she hasn't decided how she would vote today. If the building has an attractive pedestrian level, overall design and promises work- force housing, she might endorse the building, despite its height.

``Does it play nicely with its neighbors?'' Saul-Sena said. ``Where do its shadows fall? I want to see what else they're offering.''

White, too, remained undecided Wednesday. He was concerned about the height, whether the building would offer plenty of units priced at $130,000 and whether the project would cause traffic problems.

Wilson Stair, the city's urban design manager, said he had been working with project officials on creating a more attractive building base. Height is secondary.

``Chicago people and New Yorkers look at the base of the building,'' Stair said. ``They're not as concerned about the height. You know where the business core is because of the height of the buildings. You don't have high-rises out on West Shore. If you're going to have the taller buildings, the central business district is where that happens.''

The 400 North Ashley Plaza building is 454 feet; the Bank of America building 577 feet; and the 100 North Tampa building 579 feet. Those buildings are in a portion of the central business district zoned for high- rise structures. Height limits are at the discretion of city council members.

The mayor is convinced the Franklin Street towers would benefit the city.

``The area is starved for redevelopment,'' Iorio said. ``It will be an asset.''


Reporter Ellen Gedalius can be reached at (813) 259-7679.

http://news.tbo.com/news/MGBXCEIFOBE.html

[FLHawk]

I think Mary Alvarez can relax...even with this project approved, there's very little chance of Tampa feeling like New York.

Jeez, with all the developer is offering, those three need to get off their (not so) high horses, and admit that this can only benefit a dead zone with decaying buildings.

Hope the new design will be less "boxy" and offer more street-level appeal to make it more appealing. Hope to see the designs soon...

[FloridaFuture]

``To me, this is a downtown. Height is what downtowns are all about.''

That is a very good line from the mayor and this should be said over and over again to the city council. :)

[FloridaFuture]

Looks like all the buildings got approved in their original height. There is an article in the metro section of the Trib that has a rendering of the south block but not the north block. :)

[Jasonhouse]

lololol.... This reporter 'Ellen Gedalius' who wrote the article Smiley posted yesterday must feel pretty f***ing dumb today. The Doran Jason project that she vilified with her headline was approved 6-0 by the City Council.

[robbie]

I know this is old news now but did anybody else see the July 28th Doran Jason presentation on TV? They kept mentioning the Grant Block. Is this the north block? Is this the area that they are converting the old long building into condos? The older guy held up a copy of what looked like a very tall building. I'm assuming this was the taller building on the north block. It was pretty impressive. If I remember correctly the top left floors were tiered (in one dimention) and the windows looked V-shaped. They also showed different renderings of the groud level which also looked impressive. I thought Saul-Sena was being way too picky and I didn't quite understand Kevin White's ego-tripping comments about 600 square feet. Small square feet units are "not about him", they are about downtown workers who can afford them. Please discuss.

[FLHawk]

Hey Robbie,
I didn't see the presentation, but you're right - the Grant Block is the block North of the Kress Block, and where they are proposing the 40-something story res tower.
I'm glad to hear that it looked cool, because the initial feedback from their original presentation was that their towers looked very boxy and uninspiring.

[robbie]

By looking at those blocks, it looks like the fourty something will need to be parallel to Cass St. not Franklin. Yes they are kinda boxy but better than nothing. By looking at the renderings, I don't know whether I love it or hate it. Looks like the developer is not totally out of the woods yet for total approval. Any idea of when and if this goes back to the council?

[FLHawk]

Biked up Franklin Street this past Sunday. The Residences on Franklin is making some good progress. Does anybody know what's going on with the older building directly to the South? Looks like a rehab of some sort.

Noticed they are working on extending Franklin North so that it connects with Tampa Heights. Can't really understand why they built that govt building to block Franklin in the first place.

Slow progress on the Arlington.

Looking forward to seeing final renderings from Doran Jason group on their plans for Kress and Grant blocks. Franklin Street will be rocking!

[smiley]

By the way, I don't know if anyone noticed but almost all the windows on the Floridan have now been opened and I think there has been something done on the ground floor - though only like making it more accessible But it shows someone is doing something

[robbie]

Glad you are also taking an interest in this area. It's going to take lots of money to repair that poor old hotel. Can't wait til it's open to the public. I've never been inside it even in the later days of its' operation. I've heard of stories that the Sapphire Room is still in good shape on the second floor. What sucks is there is no place to park. Just the lot next to it. Maybe if it is successful, they may build a multi-level parking garage with the same brick arcitecture. Maybe the whole thing will flop. Who knows?

[robbie]

Drove through there yesterday and went past the Residences site. The building looks very small and the units look too small also. Got a good look at from Tampa St. Drove all the way up Franklin this time to the ugly state building. I had no idea Franklin was going to be extended north bound.

Also asked Doran Jason group if they had any renderings of the 44 story building. They sent me back an email with two attachments. One of the 44 story building (the Grant block building) and another of a 30 -35 story building. The 44 story is awesome looking in the rendering.

I asked them to put it on this website but they didn't write back. I have it at my work email and have no idea how to get it on this site.

Also the bums are gone now. Don't know where they went. Probably to Florida Ave. or the river.

[FloridaFuture]

Drove through there yesterday and went past the Residences site. The building looks very small and the units look too small also. Got a good look at from Tampa St. Drove all the way up Franklin this time to the ugly state building. I had no idea Franklin was going to be extended north bound.

Also asked Doran Jason group if they had any renderings of the 44 story building. They sent me back an email with two attachments. One of the 44 story building (the Grant block building) and another of a 30 -35 story building. The 44 story is awesome looking in the rendering.

I asked them to put it on this website but they didn't write back. I have it at my work email and have no idea how to get it on this site.

Also the bums are gone now. Don't know where they went. Probably to Florida Ave. or the river.

You can probaly e-mail the renderings to Jasonhouse and he'll post them. What is Doran Jason's website? :)

[robbie]

I don't know. Just type in "Doran Jason" and go from there. Like I said, they didn't respond the second time. They may think this is all trivial BS. I mean by us being only skyscraper fans instead of potential buyers they probably won't want to bother.

[John F]

And because some are not so web savvy....

http://www.doranjasongroup.com/developments/Kress%20Block%20Rendering.jpg

[Dale]

Don't know what to say.

[Jasonhouse]

I asked them to put it on this website but they didn't write back. I have it at my work email and have no idea how to get it on this site.


Why? I posted the renderings, as well as a resize months ago. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's back near the beginning of this thread.


[edit] yep, the link to the doranjason website (where the rederings are) and my resize are back on page 3.

[FloridaFuture]

Yeah, but I don't think we've seen the 44 story Grant Block yet.

[Jasonhouse]

^It's not publicly available yet.

[FloridaFuture]

^It's not publicly available yet.

Yes and in his post robbie said they sent it to him. that's why the pictures should be posted. :)

[robbie]

Jason,

Can I the Grant block pics to you personally? Then you can get them on this site.

[robbie]

This is something different. It's the Grant block, not the Kress block. Have you already seen the 44 story pic? I would really like to get the two pics on here but I am having a problem sending you a personal email.

[Jasonhouse]

Oh, I understand... you have a Grant rendering...

you have mail

[FLHawk]

Where's the Grant building rendering? I'm dying to see it. (Hope I like it better than what I've seen thus far for the Kress)

I drive by the Residences at Franklin every day on Tampa Street, and it seems to be making some nice progress (working on 5th floor, I believe).

It seems that a couple of older, abandoned buildings directly adjacent to the North of Res@Franklin are getting some well-needed attention. Anyone know what's happening here? Rehab for offices? I haven't seen any specific signs explaining the work.

[Jasonhouse]

I will post it tonight... Robbie sent them to me several days ago, but I've been in Gainesville since Tuesday night.

[robbie]

I was wandering what happened. I'm hoping you can get this on the site.

Jason, what if it's not Ok to be released to the public?

[robbie]

This could be the new and prominent part of DT! The mayor is all for it and so is Dingfelder. I don't agree with Saul-sena on her opinion of tall buildigs. She's a good reason why Tampa is so backwards.

[Jasonhouse]

I was wandering what happened. I'm hoping you can get this on the site.

Jason, what if it's not Ok to be released to the public?
They wouldn't have sent it to you in the first place.

[FloridaFuture]

This could be the new and prominent part of DT! The mayor is all for it and so is Dingfelder. I don't agree with Saul-sena on her opinion of tall buildigs. She's a good reason why Tampa is so backwards.

Yes, Saul Sena is in her little bubble. especially w/ Floriadian being re done and smaller projects like Rsidense @ Franklin Street it will become very nice. When i see the Grant I'll believe it though, especially after the rendering of the ass looking towers sandwhiching Kress. :runaway:

[smiley]

I don't just mean on N. Franklin, I mean all over Tampa

[ChuckScraperMiami#1]

I will post it tonight... Robbie sent them to me several days ago, but I've been in Gainesville since Tuesday night.

Jason :) , welcome back. Happy 4,000, congratulations :cheers: , lol, :jk: I mean posts.

[Jasonhouse]

^Thanks, but I have many, many more posts than that. They were simply pruned or hacked away... Alot of people have incorrect post counts like that.

btw, as soon as the damn server lets me, I will upload and post the elevations robbie sent me.

[Maxim98]

I'm dying to see them. Open up a photobucket account or something. Heh ;)

[robbie]

Everybody,

Please don't get too excited when you see them. It's not really official yet. They are still in the planning stages. Hopefully Doran Jason will have floor plans next. It's going to be cool in a few years when Franklin has it's own identity.

[Jasonhouse]

Cripes... Here they are FINALLY... Only took me about 20 attempts before the server actually took.



As you can see, these depict two slightly different versions. I don't know which one is the latest verison.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/8Grant_Elevation1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/8Grant_Elevation2.jpg

[FloridaFuture]

i like it....

[Dale]

I'll take either one.

[moxwax]

very nice! a lot better than the commie block boxes planned for kress... I'll take this tower anyday!

[robbie]

I hope you all like it. Jason, special thanks to you! I really hope it all works out with Tampa and the devopers.

[Maxim98]

Niiiiiiiiiiice.

[Pres_of_2036]

I like the first 1.Just have a better relationchip with it :runaway:

[Maxim98]

The first one definately has more character.

[smiley]

I beleive I prefer the first version, but what the hell - buy another lot, use em both -

In all seriousness, if either of thsoe get built on that block I will be in shock - happy, but shocked

[Dale]

Why 'shocked', smiley ? Just because of the developer's track record ?

[FloridaFuture]

I prefer the first one too. If you take into account the neighbohood its being put it the brown trim goes better. the top on the first one has more style too. :)

[smiley]

No, because I have no faith in anyone doing anything in Tampa. I have seen too