Tampa Development News II

[renner01]

High-Rise Arguments Make Way Through Courts, Commissions
By IVAN J. HATHAWAY ihathaway@tampatrib.com
Published: Nov 27, 2004


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BAYSHORE - Although more than 18 months have passed since plans for a Bayshore Boulevard condominium surfaced, and despite repeated rejections from the city, a developer's battle to erect the high- rise is far from over.

So is a Hyde Park neighborhood's resolve to stop the project.

Next month, a circuit court hearing is scheduled to discuss procedural details in Citivest Construction Corp.'s lawsuit seeking to overturn rulings by the Architectural Review Commission and Tampa City Council.

Then, at a hearing tentatively set for Jan. 6, city attorneys will ask a judge to dismiss the lawsuit.

While the court case works its way along, attorneys for Citivest and developer Bill Robinson also are approaching the legal stumbling blocks from another angle.

Lawyer John Grandoff has requested public records in an effort to re-create how the property at Bayshore and DeSoto Avenue came to be drawn into the Hyde Park Historic District when it was created in the mid-1980s.

Grandoff, who represents Robinson, wants the Tampa Historic Preservation Commission to hear his request to redraw the district's boundaries. He said the commercially zoned property shouldn't have been included in the historic district.

He hopes to present his case to the preservation board early next year.

A win by Citivest in either arena could result in workers pouring the foundation of a luxury high-rise.

Because of the site's location and the need to get construction waivers for the originally planned 31-story, more than 400-feet-tall building, Grandoff began presenting the plans to the architectural commission and city council in spring 2003.

Neighbors railed against the plans, which were rejected by the commission and withdrawn before the city council could vote on them.

A scaled-down, 24-story version needed no waivers and left the city council out of the loop. With neighborhood opposition still strong, the commission also rejected that version as too large for the historic district.

Robinson appealed to the city council, which in June upheld the commission ruling.

The lawsuit contends those rulings should be reversed because they weren't based on substantial evidence and Citivest was denied due process.

Not so, said Jerry Gewirtz, the chief assistant city attorney in charge of litigation.

``The city council acted properly,'' Gewirtz said. ``The city believes council's decision is totally defendable.

``The city is confident that the court ultimately will find this lawsuit to be without merit,'' he said.

The president of the Historic Hyde Park Neighborhood Association, Jeanne Holton Carufel, said the opposition is steadfast.

``We're committed. We're not going anywhere,'' Carufel said. ``It's our neighborhood, so why should we give up?''

Reporter Ivan Hathaway can be reached at (813) 835-2103.
http://southtampa.tbo.com/southtampa/MGBHQKCZ02E.html

[Jasonhouse]

I dont' see how the city has any legal footing here... The site is zoned for it, and they've already approved other highrise towers within the historic district (One Bayshore, and others in the past). if this project would be "out of character" with the area, then they shouldn't have zoned the land for highrise development.

[BRobinson]

I've received news today from a very reliable source that the Pinnacle development is close to breaking ground...... from what i was told it will probably happen first quarter 05.

[Jasonhouse]

Well, that's what we've all been told.

:)

[smiley]

They had over 70% reservations on building one way back in the easrly summer, so if real sales are anything close to that (and assuming that reservations increased), I would suspect that building one will be a go - I am not sure about building two (I don't think that is open to reserve yet) or the observation thingy, which they should turn into another useful tower.

[smiley]

Ok, let's talk about the towers at Channelside for a minute - first, the good rendering
http://www.towersatchannelside.com/noflash/pictures/finaltowers.jpg

Now, someone I trust told me they were told that there are around 30 out of 257 units left and that ground breaking is tentatively scheduled for late Jan 2005.

If indeed they have those sales (and that is what the number was all about - not reservations) then it will be built.

I look forward to the cranes - a mess of them -

though I will believe when I see.

[axerod]

It looks like the rendering was done w/ max6 are there any new renderings of the four seasons, pinnacle Place, or the ashley tower?

[John F]

Might be a good rendering but they look UGLY... Especially with that paint job....

[smiley]

Report: New art museum could face shortfall
As estimates for the new building grow, the museum could run short unless its endowment increases. The city says it won't give the facility more money.
By JANET ZINK, Times Staff Writer
Published December 2, 2004

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TAMPA - The estimated cost of a new city art museum has been climbing, and now backers have learned they'll also need to boost the museum endowment five-fold - from $2-million to $10-million - to meet operating expenses.

If that goal can't be met, the museum will need to come up with $360,000 to cover operations in the first year, says a report received Tuesday from the Cambridge, Mass., economic research firm ConsultEcon.

Mayor Pam Iorio said the city won't contribute any more to the museum than it has already committed.

"We've always had that position," said Iorio, who met with museum leaders Tuesday to discuss the report.

The city pays $930,000 each year to operate the museum, and has pledged to give $2-million to support the new 151,000-square-foot building, which is three times the size of the existing museum. The city also is putting $29.8-million toward construction costs. Museum fundraisers say they have $30-million in pledges to cover construction, which could top $68-million.

Iorio said she is waiting for a business plan from the museum board and for final construction costs, which should be available this month.

"We're still analyzing, along with the museum board, their ability to raise money and make sure the museum can run successfully," she said. "This is a major project funded by lots of public money and lots of private money. It's very important that the museum be a long-term success." Museum director Emily Kass said a larger endowment, which would generate about 5 percent of the annual budget, isn't the only option for covering operating expenses.

"That's the recommended way to do it, but barring having the endowment in place there are other ways to raise money," she said. "Our board feels very comfortable with being able to make up the difference."

Possibilities include annual fundraisers, pursuing grant funding, increasing the price of facilities rental, raising admission fees and fine-tuning expenses, said ConsultEcon vice president Bob Brais. The projected budget for the new museum already suggests raising ticket prices from $7 to $9.

The new museum should attract about 175,000 visitors a year, the report says. About 95,000 people went to the museum in 2003.

Expansion of the permanent collection through donations and the ability to host "blockbuster" type shows supported by corporate and individual sponsors should bring in more patrons, Kass said.

"Our biggest limitation is the size of our galleries. We turn down so many wonderful exhibitions because we just don't have the space for them," she said.

For example, the existing Tampa art museum couldn't have accommodated the show of works by glass artisan Dale Chihuly that brought 150,000 people to the Museum of Fine Arts in St. Petersburg this year, she said.

The new museum also will be able to bring in exhibits from such art world heavyweights as the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the Smithsonian Institutions and the Corcoran Gallery, the report says.

"In planning the design of the new museum we were very conscious not only of the kinds of exhibition space you need but what do you need behind the scenes in terms of being able to accommodate crates and large-scale art," Kass said.

City officials plan to break ground on the museum early next year with an opening scheduled for 2007.

Construction was supposed to begin in early 2003, but Iorio put those plans on hold shortly after taking office until private backers came up with their portion of the money.

Since then, construction costs have gone up. By May, the estimated price had increased from $60-million to $68-million because of the rising price of concrete and steel.

Beck construction company plans this month to deliver final construction costs.

Steve Daignault, the city's administrator for public works and utilities, said that in a meeting last month with Beck he identified more than a dozen high-priced items that need to be reviewed.

Concrete costs were particularly troubling, he said, because the price had almost doubled since May.

"In this new museum some of the concrete is going to architectural elements," he said. "It's going to be exposed and part of the facade. Between the Beck folks and the architect and us we've tried to clarify and simplify what they can do with the concrete and how we expect it to look and at the same time reduce some of the costs."

A major overhaul of the building design is not likely, Kass said.

"Costs associated with any kind of redesign are something the board and city would have to look at very carefully," Kass said. "There are elements that will make the museum successful that have to do with the building design."

In addition to space for larger exhibits, the new museum includes a restaurant, a bigger museum store and education space.

Kass said she also expects that the city's focus on redeveloping downtown as a cultural arts district and residential area will benefit the museum.

"The whole complexion of downtown Tampa is going to change. There's an immediate potential audience that doesn't exist now," she said. "I think people will be very open-minded about this project in terms of what do we need to do to get it going and making it successful."

[Last modified December 2, 2004, 00:05:08]
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/12/02/Hillsborough/Report__New_art_museu.shtml

[smiley]

Of course, taste is subjective, but I like 'em - they are odd - but I like 'em.

[Dale]

Certainly a refreshing change from Med Revival if nothing else.

[Jasonhouse]

I like the Towers at Channelside a good bit. Almost anything which isn't Med Rev is great in my book, if only because we're already inundated with it elsewhere in town.

[Jasonhouse]

Something pulled from the archived thread...

________________________________________________________________________________________


InTown Tampa for August 2004
http://tampasdowntown.com/intown080304b.htm

Plotting The Riverwalk's Course
Catherine Mitseas

http://tampasdowntown.com/email/intown080304b2.jpg

In envisioning where the Riverwalk stands today, it is best to think in terms of a complicated jigsaw puzzle. First you complete the easy sections, and then you ponder the tough pieces, trying to determine a strategy that will allow you to finish quickly. Right now, the city is at that point - the end is in sight; the question is how to get there.

The Riverwalk is a dream begun by previous mayors and recently upheld by current mayor Pam Iorio as one of the key components to Tampa's continued growth. Targeted for completion by 2010, the two-mile walkway will run in an "L" shaped pattern along the Hillsborough River's eastern side, connecting the new Waterworks Park north of the Stetson Law School with Harbour Island and all points in between. The walkway ends at the proposed site of the new history museum.

Logically, there are two primary challenges in creating a seamless walk around the city: money and bridges. The remaining construction carries a hefty tab - an estimated $15 million - created, in part, by the city's four bridges and one over-water railroad crossing.

"What do you do around bridges? You have to go out over the water at that point. You have to maintain head height" of about eight feet, said David Vaughn, contract administrator for the Department of Public Works.

Yet building under or around these bridges is key to the walkway's connectivity, said Dave Parkinson, deputy director of redevelopment for the City of Tampa. The knottiest point is at the CSX Railroad bridge adjacent to Cass Street, "probably the most challenging, from a physical clearance and construction perspective," Vaughn said.

No point of the project is insurmountable, though. "It is a matter of agreeing on design solutions and balancing design options with costs," said Parkinson.

Funding for the project is another part of the puzzle. Mayor Iorio hopes to rely on more than federal dollars. She is considering what private sector opportunities might be available, Vaughn said.

The Riverwalk is one of the most important public investments underway downtown, Parkinson explained. It will improve pedestrian access to the River and connect a variety of adjacent cultural and commercial centers, stimulating economic development. In addition to offering a safe and enjoyable way for individuals to walk around downtown, the Riverwalk provides walkers with links to public transportation. Currently walkways exist at the Performing Arts Center and behind the Marriott Waterside Hotel. Besides the two existing paths, there are five segments in the planning or funding phases, as shown on the Riverwalk Segment Map prepared by the Department of Public Works. Two of the funded sites include the Ribbon of Green waterfront parks on property owned by the city. That leaves 10 segments for the future.

Private ownership will complete some of the walkway. The developers of a residential tower planned for north of Brorein Street will build a segment, Vaughn said.

At the same time, economic elements are accelerating to ensure the Riverwalk's success, explained John Moors, administrator of Convention Facilities and Tourism with the City of Tampa. In his four-and-a-half years in Tampa, Moors has witnessed the rising of the new Marriott Waterside hotel and the renewal of Channelside, and has watched the population of Harbour Island swell to more than 6,000 people. Over the same time period, the number of weekly cruise passengers has more than doubled, from 3,000 to nearly 8,000.

Like others, Moors feels downtown residential development is critical. More people mean more commerce -- and increased opportunity for business to flourish along the water.

"Imagine walking from home to the arts center or from home to a hotel for a fireworks display," he said. "The pedestrian and residential element will help the city take off."

[dreams_rowdy]

They've walled off the Ashley Street/Novare Group site all the way from Tampa Street to Ashley. Hopefully we'll see the demolition of that hideous condemned parking garage and a new crane in DT very soon...

[Agent Orange]

I can't wait to see that god-awful garage go, I don't care if they put a Wal-Mart there at this point. Okay, well maybe not...

[smiley]

There won't be a crane for a bit, they jsut annoucned teh condo project a few months ago. things may be selling, but not that fast. I would rather they leave the garage until they are really ready to go. The last thing I want is another empty lot - even if it is temporary.

[Jasonhouse]

I would rather have the empty lot. If this project fails, it makes the next one that much easier.

[Dale]

Is that the particularly ugly garage with the screens ?

[dreams_rowdy]

Screens, rust, and the associative stigma of all the other decay in the north end of downtown. I think an empty lot wouldn't be quite as bad as that rotting wart.

Maybe I haven't been interested in reconstruction and the reversal of urban decay long enough, but I don't think an empty lot is very probable. From a logical sense, it would not be wise business management to pay for a site, extensive clearing, and not have construction plans immediately in queue. A lag between the two would be inefficient and just waste money. To me, it seems (and again, maybe I'm naive), that clearing the site is mostly indicative of construction.

And as a sidebar, the Riverside Residences property has been fenced off. Any news from the developers? I hate being teased...

[smiley]

Riverside Residences - I have been told that there will be some news next week. No idea what and not sure it will come out next week, but we'll see.

AS for clearing the garage - empty lots look more desolate than garages - even without cars. That building will not be going up for months. . .if ever.

[smiley]

Next Stop: Extending Trolley Line
By ANDY REID and MIKE SALINERO The Tampa Tribune
Published: Dec 3, 2004




TAMPA - City leaders say they love Tampa's downtown streetcar - but not enough to pay for a $7 million expansion.
Instead, Tampa wants to dip into state and federal pocketbooks.

Streetcar backers propose using federal transportation money intended for projects that ease air pollution to help stretch Tampa's trolley line about 3/8-mile north by 2007.

Extending the streetcar line from beside the Tampa Convention Center north to Whiting Street, near the city's Fort Brooke parking garage, could beef up ridership by luring downtown workers.

Streetcar officials justify using money intended to ease traffic congestion and air pollution by saying the extension allows future downtown residents someday to use the streetcar as a commuting alternative to cars.

Downtown may have many proposals for lofts and condominiums, but little has been built and few people live there.

Streetcars today typically cater to tourists traveling between Ybor City and the Channel District. Streetcars don't start rolling each day until 11 a.m.

City leaders, however, say they are focused on the streetcar's transportation potential.

``Something like the streetcar really has to be evaluated long term,'' Mayor Pam Iorio said. ``It is an alternative to taking a car.''

The Tampa City Council on Thursday gave its support to pursuing $3 million in state and federal funding for the streetcar extension. The Hillsborough County Metropolitan Planning Organization plans to vote on the plan Tuesday.

Streetcar representatives said state and federal money to cover the rest of the extension cost has already been requested or secured.

``It makes the streetcar accessible to over 25,000 or 30,000 workers who have not been willing to walk down to the streetcar line,'' said Michael English, president of Tampa Historic Streetcar Inc., which oversees operations. ``We can dramatically increase ridership without a great increase in operating costs.''


Ridership Exceeds Projections

The $63.5 million streetcar line was a joint venture between the city and the Hillsborough Area Regional Transit Authority, funded mostly by federal money with more than $10 million from the city.

The 2.4 mile streetcar line connecting Ybor City and the Channel District started operating in October 2002. It costs $1.50 to ride one way.

About 420,000 people rode the streetcar during its first year of operations, and that went up to about 425,000 during the second year, HARTline spokesman Ed Crawford said.

Streetcar planners expected about 360,000 a year before the streetcar line opened, Crawford said.

Ridership estimates project future increases limited to 1 or 2 percent a year without a streetcar extension, Crawford said.

An extension to Whiting Street and beyond always was planned for the streetcar line, English said.

Plans call for continuing the streetcar north through downtown, either on Franklin Street or Ashley Drive, and into Tampa Heights before turning east and connecting with the existing Ybor City portion.

``The expansion of the streetcar system would mean it could be much more of a real transportation system than a tourist novelty,'' City Councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena said.

George Pelltier and John Hansmann, self-confessed ``snowbirds'' from Ontario, Canada, were bumming around Ybor on Thursday and jumped on the trolley for the fun of it.

``It's excellent,'' Pelltier said. ``It's very reasonable in price, and it's a good way to get your bearings.''

Jill Wax, owner of La France vintage clothing store said the trolley has helped her business by bringing people from downtown to Ybor. Her store also gets traffic from cruise ship tourists that it didn't get before the trolley started running two years ago.

``It was exactly what we needed to connect Ybor to the important areas of this part of Tampa,'' Wax said.

But Jenna Kocic, the manager of the Green Iguana, said she has never heard a customer comment about the trolley.

``Customers don't come in and say they use it,'' Kocic said. ``I don't necessarily think it's made an impact on our business.''


Assessments Will Continue

Using federal or state money to build a streetcar extension doesn't spare local taxpayers from paying to help operate the trolleys.

City officials said in September that next year they might expand an annual assessment on property owners downtown and in Ybor City that helps pay for streetcar operations.

Homeowners have been exempt in the past, but officials said that might end in order to tap revenue from residential development planned near the streetcar line.

The streetcar assessment charges nonresidential properties about 33 cents per $1,000 of assessed property value. That is expected to generate about $345,000 of the trolley's $1.8 million budget this year.

Fares paid to ride the streetcar generate about $400,000 a year. In addition to the tax and fares, streetcar revenue comes from advertising on streetcar facilities, federal grants and an endowment fund.

``It cost a lot to build,'' Iorio said. ``Now that it is here, it needs to be supported.''


Reporter Andy Reid can be reached at (813) 259-8409. Reporter Mike Salinero can be reached at (813) 259-8303.

http://www.tampatrib.com/MGBDV2DV92E.html

[smiley]

This is one category I am pleased Orlando beats us in . . .

Bay area risky for walking
The area's roads remain the second-most dangerous in the nation for pedestrians, behind only Orlando, a study shows.
By STEVE THOMPSON
Published December 3, 2004

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Pedestrians in the Tampa Bay area take their lives in their hands more than in any other metro area in the nation except Orlando, according to a national study released Thursday.

"Mean Streets 2004" also puts the Tampa Bay area among 10 with the greatest declines in pedestrian safety during the past decade.

The report comes amid recent examples of how deadly the roads here can be.

Last week, a hit-and-run driver in St. Pete Beach killed 5-year-old Victoria D'Addio as she was vacationing with her mother and brother. In October, Clearwater High School student Rebecca McKinney was killed as she tried to cross six-lane McMullen-Booth Road after getting off a school bus.

The report lays much of the blame for pedestrian fatalities on politicians and planners responsible for features that make cities more "walkable."

The planners have focused on creating high-speed traffic, says the report by the nonprofit Surface Transportation Policy Project in Washington, D.C., while "treating our communities and pedestrian safety particularly as an afterthought."

But Trooper Larry Coggins, spokesman for the Florida Highway Patrol, says pedestrians themselves need to take control of their safety.

"Every week, someone is run over on U.S. 19 either in Pasco or Pinellas, and what's the common denominator?" he said. "Every one of them runs out in the middle of the block and does not cross at a safe spot."

A St. Petersburg Times study of fatalities on U.S. 19 in Pasco County from 1990 to 2000 supports his assertion. The analysis found that most who died were middle-aged men who tried to cross the road:

At night (88 percent).

In areas without street lights (74 percent).

Away from pedestrian crosswalks (76 percent).

After drinking alcohol (55 percent).

Mean Streets 2004 ranked five Florida metro areas among the deadliest for walkers. The state's climate probably has something to do with it, said Whit Blanton of Orlando, transportation chairman for the American Planning Association.

"I think that gets people out and about more often than in other states," he said. "So our rates of crashes are probably going to be higher just because there are more of us out there to hit."

Also, unlike in states with older cities, "most of our planning and development was done during an era when we weren't thinking about the pedestrian too much," he said. "We were thinking about moving cars."

The focus for traffic engineers today is "to move cars through intersections at the highest rate of speed possible, legally," Blanton said. "It's not their fault. It's just that commuters are demanding it, and the politicians are asking them to do it."

Tampa Bay's No. 2 position behind Orlando is unchanged from the last Mean Streets report, released in 2002. To create the rankings, the report's authors combine pedestrian fatality rates with census findings on numbers of people who walk to work. The study's authors admit a better measure of pedestrian exposure would include all types of trips, but a nationwide source of such data could not be obtained.

In 2003, the report says, 88 pedestrians died on the roads of the Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater area. Nationwide, 4,827 were killed.

DANGEROUS AREAS
10 most dangerous large metro areas for pedestrians: 1. Orlando

2. Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater

3. West Palm Beach-Boca Raton

4. Miami-Fort Lauderdale

5. Memphis 6. Atlanta

7. Greensboro-Winston Salem-High Point, N.C.

8. Houston-Galveston-Brazoria, Texas

9. Jacksonville

10. Phoenix-Mesa, Ariz.

For more information, you may check the report

at www.transact.org/

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/12/03/Tampabay/Bay_area_risky_for_wa.shtml

[smiley]

I am not sure what the zoning for this lot is, but it is a sweet location ofr almost any use - great view, great access and few residential neighbors immediately adjacent:
Unnamed buyer poised to buy popular corner parking spot
By JANET ZINK, Times Staff Writer
Published December 3, 2004

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BAYSHORE GARDENS - The 1-acre parcel at the corner of Bayshore and Bay to Bay boulevards is under contract to be sold to a developer.

The property, owned for more than 20 years by two local investment firms, is a popular parking spot for people who use Bayshore Boulevard.

Ron Weaver, an attorney for Cliff Levy, a principal in the two companies that own the land, declined to disclose the name of the buyer or plans for the property. But Weaver said his client has received several unsolicited offers for the land. He confirmed one of them is headed to the closing table.

The city has had a lease agreement with the owners for the past six years so that the land can be used for public parking and as a city park. The agreement is renewable every five years and can be terminated by either party with 30 days' notice, city real estate manager Jack Rodriguez said. As of Monday, he had not heard anything about ending the agreement.

Each day, at least 50 to 75 cars use the lot, said Marsha Carter, a city parks and recreation superintendent. Since leasing the land, the city has added landscaping, a water fountain and picnic tables.

Two years ago, the city installed a flagpole and sign honoring the Bayshore Patriots, a group that stands near the corner every Friday to wave American flags commemorating the people who died during the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

[Last modified December 2, 2004, 13:11:08]
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/12/03/Citytimes/Unnamed_buyer_poised_.shtml.

[smiley]

More mystery about this Crescent plan - isuspect they are going to surprise teh Council with a mildly scaled down proposal base on the previous info I have been given.

Hyde Park North: Council set to consider Bayshore condo plan
Neighbors fear a 20-story tower will affect traffic. Developers have agreed to pay for task-force-recommended safety measures.
By JANET ZINK, Times Staff Writer
Published December 3, 2004

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Most mornings, Brian Crosby waits for what seems like forever to get out of his building's parking garage onto Bayshore Boulevard.

He and his neighbors at 345 Bayshore worry the problem will get even worse if a proposed condominium project is built next door.

"It's just going to be over the top," said Crosby, who lives in a 345 penthouse. "Traffic is going to be an absolute nightmare."

The City Council on Thursday will consider a request by Crescent Resources to rezone 1.8 acres north of 345 Bayshore to make way for a 20-story tower with 168 units. Prices for Seddon Place will start at $400,000.

If approved, the tower would replace a 72-unit apartment complex that dates back more than 50 years.

Crescent Resources of North Carolina also is building the 18-story One Bayshore at Bayshore Boulevard and Platt Street. A second phase includes a 27-story tower and townhouses.

The developers have met twice with neighbors. Their traffic concerns are unfounded, said Truett Gardner, an attorney for Crescent Resources.

"The level of service on all the roads will not change," he said.

The developer has promised to pay for area improvements recommended by the Bayshore Task Force, a group of neighborhood and city leaders appointed by Mayor Pam Iorio in February to come up with suggestions for increasing safety on Bayshore. Possibilities include adding a northbound traffic signal at Platt or a left turn lane from Bayshore to Verne Street.

Crescent also intends to rebrick three streets and construct a new brick street near its projects. To encourage people to use public transportation, the developer helped fund a HARTline trolley that runs from Old Hyde Park Village to downtown and stops in front of One Bayshore.

Residents of 345 Bayshore still aren't convinced the tower is a good idea.

"There are a lot of people who are concerned about the impact a building like that would have on our neighborhood," said 345 condominium association president Elizabeth DeConti.

People on the north side of the building also don't want to lose their views of downtown, she said.

The proposed project sits near what she calls the "Davis Islands choke," where people coming off the islands enter onto Bayshore. Traffic from the new condos at Platt at Bayshore will be enough, she said.

"We're not out to stop development in South Tampa," DeConti said. "We're just trying to make it reasonable. If there's some way they could go forward with this project without causing a traffic hazard, we'd be fine with it."

- Janet Zink can be reached at 226-3401 or jzink@sptimes.com

[Last modified December 2, 2004, 14:04:52]
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/12/03/Citytimes/Hyde_Park_North__Coun.shtml

[Lakelander]

If the city is going to really ask for federal money to extend the trolley 3/8 of a mile, I think they need to look at trying to at least expand it into the northern section of downtown in this next phase. Its a waste of everybody's time to keep extending this thing with roughly 1/2 mile extensions every 3 or 4 years. Its proving to be a success, suck it up and get it over with.

[tonyff67]

^ I agree. this adding a little piece every third or fourth year is a freaking joke. If they want to do it in small chunks, Fine, but do an addition every year. It will take them another twenty years to complete the proposed loop at this rate.
Sometimes I think Iorio is a little TOO conservative with the city's money. Like the musuem. She doesn't want to spend more tax payers money, that is great, but in the mean time, the price of construction is going up quicker than they can raise money , so it will never get built and we will continue to have a storage shed for a museum .

[Jasonhouse]

^^^ With regards to the 20 story condo article above getting flack from NIMBYs in another highrise next door...

Don't kid yourselves people... These folks in 345 Bayshore are mildly concerned about the traffic impact of a few dozen newcomers, if at all... What they are infinitely more concerned with is something they have no legal recourse over, which is their view being negatively impacted, which will invariably devalue their property some.

[smiley]

Plainly. Too bad - In my humble opinion. the project will get approved (generally) because Crescent is going to sacrifice the 25-27 story tower for two 20 or maybe even a bit smaller towers that are going to run parallel to Bayshore (thus perpendicular to 345) and it is Crescent and they build too much in Tampa to not win.

Why don't people learn that you have to face the water to get a preserved view.

[radicalqaz]

For Developer, It Takes A Village To Make A Difference
By JANIS D. FROELICH jfroelich@tampatrib.com
Published: Dec 4, 2004







TAMPA - Roger Gatewood has more than a vision of another loft complex for the Channel District. He wants to create a village within the city.
The St. Petersburg developer is eager for Channelside Village to be much more than 360 residential units. He also plans shops and office space, inspired by Barcelona, where Spaniards walk and socialize.

First, though, Gatewood said he has to get through the holidays. ``Everything slows down a little this time of year.''

Gatewood has a Jan. 13 deadline looming. That's the date of the city zoning hearing for Channelside Village.

He is proposing four, 14-story buildings between Meridian Avenue and 12th Street, bordered by Whiting Street and Cumberland Avenue. The height limit in the Channel District is 60 feet.

The $100 million project would be within a block of the Channelside entertainment complex.

Channelside Village's building designs would be urban Mediterranean, modern, historic warehouse and a classical midrise.

``That's Roger's vision based on his travels in Spain,'' said CGHJ architect Stephanie December Gaines, who is designing the buildings. ``We want each piece to look like a village and not like a monstrous project.''

Gaines said each building would be a different color. ``But somehow this will all work together, even with the different architecture,'' she said.

The villagelike enclave could be just what the Channel District needs, said Kim Markham, editor of the community association newsletter. She and her husband, Richard, a physician who operates Channel Medical Clinic at 209 12th St., sold their building to Gatewood.

``We didn't want to leave the area, but Roger's project was too good for the neighborhood,'' Markham said.

The medical clinic hopes to move to Adamo Drive and 19th Street so it will still serve the Port of Tampa, Markham said.

Gatewood plans to use the clinic building, which also houses an artist gallery, as a temporary sales office.

He is negotiating with the Greenbaum family to buy the Seaboard Cold Storage building, 110 S. 11th St. The 100,000-square-foot storage operation could be replaced by the bulk of the residential project as early as 2006.


Reporter Janis D. Froelich can be reached at (813) 259-7143.

http://centraltampa.tbo.com/centraltampa/MGBZIZGZA2E.html

[smiley]

Oh, so she sold out . . . nice. Just cashing in after bitching so long.

Anyway, the arcitectural aspects of this thing still confuse me, but 4 14-sory buildings is about the right density for that area as it steps toward the taller buildings outside the "zone."

[smiley]

Oh yea, I was driving around - there is claerly some site work going on at 1000/900 Channelside, there is a trailer, they fenced off and cleared the lots and they look like they may be pounding dirt down for the foundation for the 1000 building - but no one was out there today so I am not sure. A quite project, but it fills a gap and the more the merrier - especially with teh Meridian going up and the Place coming soon after (not to mention the Towers) - creating something from nothing.

[Jasonhouse]

I forgot all about Channelside Villiage for the compilation above... Did we ever have a schematic rendering or anything?

[smiley]

There is nothing that I know of yet. I think they will wait for the hearing (maybe they will have some stuff there - if I remember I will look)

[dreams_rowdy]

I haven't heard anything about Tampa Bay One recently except that they were waiting for a major office tenant. When I drove by today I saw lots of heavy equipment on the lot, machines that I couldn't label. I wonder what they're up to...I guess the fun is in the speculation. :sly:

I also rudely eavesdropped on a group of businessmen from the Towers of Channelside yesterday in Jeoffrey's talking. They were having an interesting discussion about construction crew hierarchies and how to motivate the two different crews for the different towers by offering incentives for being the first to complete the construction. Looks like things are progressing well for a likely January/February '05 groundbreaking.

[John F]

Oh, so she sold out . . . nice. Just cashing in after bitching so long.


And moving into a custom built warehouse in the district :P

[Jasonhouse]

I think the machinery on TB1's site is just being stored there, probably on a lease contract. I wouldn't be surprised if the folks doing that stacked retail project on the other side of Dale Mabry are leasing it.

[smiley]

While I like the TB1 concept, I am much more concerned with Channelside and DT proper. I would trade TB1 for simialr size projects there anyday. There is little likelihood that TB1 would really spark to truly urban area, so, while it would be nice and the developer seems determineed to build it (hence the ads all over the place), it can wait, in my humble opinion.

Let the Towers begin.

[dreams_rowdy]

I want to start a thread about how our new trend for urban living will affect our cities in Florida in general, and Tampa more specifically. It would be somewhat heavy on the theory/anecdotal side and probably come in parts. Does anyone think this would be interesting?

[the_1_and_only_cuban]

What is Tampa Bay 1? I never heard of it. Is it a high-rise? Can you post some renderings?

[sarasotan]

TBI is a major development planned for the eastern part of Westshore. Its main attraction is that on the ground level it will be designed to accomodate retail and be walkable, much like a traditional "downtown" cluster of developments. If you live in Tampa, you can see a rendering on I-275 Northbound as you head past the Dale Mabry intersection. I believe it doesn't yet have a major tenant, so it could be a few years before it gets built, if it ever does.

[loureed]

I want to start a thread about how our new trend for urban living will affect our cities in Florida in general, and Tampa more specifically. It would be somewhat heavy on the theory/anecdotal side and probably come in parts. Does anyone think this would be interesting?

Just do it. If it was stupid, then it will be on the next page in 2 days :)

I'm a USF student too.

[Jasonhouse]

Lou, what are you studying?





btw, it also just dawned on me that the update above doesn't include any info about the two condo project near the Forum on Channelside Dr (recently proposed, no renderings)...

Has anyone ever heard anything about what the City is doing with the land on Ashley that was origionally going to be for the two Byrd condos (on the river, north of the TMoA)?

[Jasonhouse]

What is Tampa Bay 1? I never heard of it. Is it a high-rise? Can you post some renderings?


It is supposed to be comprised of a 21 story hotel/condo, a 15 story office tower, a 13 story office tower (750k sqft office total), a movie theater, considerable retail/entertainment space, and over 4,000 parking spaces in a garage above some retail, and another garage. For a "phase 2" there was another block designated to be townhouses, along with another block which would be developed at that time for whatever the market demanded.

It is supposed to create a "town center" for that area, just as Shops at Channelside has in Channelside, and Baywalk has in DT St Pete.

[loureed]

I am a political science major at the moment, but fleeting off to NJ next Fall to do landscape architecture. Well, if I get accepted at Rutgers.

[smiley]

Two stories of parking at the bottom on a waterfront site? I hate this whoel idea. It should be somewhere else.

New History Center Deal Joins Tampa Lore
By LELAND HAWES lhawes@tampatrib.com
Published: Dec 7, 2004




TAMPA - After more than 15 years, historians and preservationists finally got their fondest wish Monday: a permanent local history museum.
Tampa and Hillsborough County leaders signed a deal to build the $17 million Tampa Bay History Center on parkland fronting Garrison Channel. They plan a 2008 opening.

``We will now have a home for history,'' said George B. Howell III, chairman of the history center, which has been operating out of a cramped Tampa Convention Center storefront.

The drive to build a permanent home for historic artifacts dates back to the 1980s, when then-Hillsborough Commissioner Jan Platt created a task force to study need and feasibility. At the time, a collection including ancient bones and faded Civil War uniforms was housed in a room at the courthouse.

Ater years of fits and starts, when critics sought to derail museum backers' efforts, a ``remarkable series of events'' occurred in recent months, Howell said.

Those included help from the Florida Communities Trust, a state agency that provided money for the final phase of Cotanchobee-Fort Brooke Park. Dedicated in March 2003, the park will be home to the new museum.

They also included the county's unanimous vote in October, reaffirming its $17 million pledge in construction money.

History center backers have raised $9.5 million toward a $20 million permanent endowment to finance operating expenses. That was key to winning county support, said county commission Chairman Jim Norman, who signed the agreement along with Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio in Monday's ceremony at the center's temporary quarters.

The building's design is expected to emerge from a county-sponsored architectural contest, but preliminary plans call for a five-level structure, the first two for parking, said Rob Blount, center president.

The 32,000-square-foot building will occupy about 10 percent of the park's 2.32 acres, he said. With exhibit areas on upper levels, the artifacts should be safe from flooding. The collection has grown to include thousands of items, ranging from an 1890s crumb tray from Plant Hotel to buttons dropped at Fort Brooke.

They'll be coming to a place steeped in local history. The park once housed part of that pioneering fort hacked out of the wilderness in 1824. Fort Brooke would one day become modern Tampa.

Through the 20th century, the site has had industrial uses, including an asphalt plant and wharves. Only in recent years was it cleared.

``Our children and grandchildren will thank us,'' Platt said at the signing. ``This really is a historic day.''

The museum will ``give us an understanding of how we got here,'' Iorio said.

The new museum fits the Tampa Downtown Partnership's vision, said Christine Burdick, president of the coalition of downtown business people. ``People want to be downtown not so much to be close to work but for its cultural and entertainment assets.''


Reporter Leland Hawes can be reached at (813) 259-7827.

http://www.tampatrib.com/MGBMJ4UKF2E.html

[smiley]

Ok, this is a very small rendering from teh website of the Westshore Yacht Club development south of Gandy (not the Grady Pridgen plan, andother development). They have this condo building - which appears to be 14 stories thought the rendering is so small it is hard to figure out. I will try to find a better one. I don't love this design, but I guess it is tolerable filler.

http://wci.wcicommunities.com/images/PT/55/1102349039390/1102349039406/Castillorendering1204_250w.jpg

[Lakelander]

I'm totally against the Historical Center location. I still feel it should be located somewhere in the vicinity of North Franklin Street in a renovated older brick building from Tampa's heyday. Not only that, but a location in that area would put it in the middle of the "so-called" arts district and within walking distance of the proposed Museum of Art. Oh well, I guess there's no reason to cry over it, since I'm not putting up any money for it.

[radicalqaz]

Channel District: Construction is underway on Victory Lofts and The Meridian. Road work continues to take shape on the new Meridian Street Boulevard.

Theatre District: The conversion and renovation of The Arlington, located on North Franklin Street, is well underway. Along Franklin Street you will soon see new businesses including a sushi restaurant.

Central Business District: Construction continues on Rampello Downtown Partnership School. Also, demolition has begun on the old TECO parking garage on Tampa Street to make way for a new 30 story high-rise condominium. Furthermore, construction continues on the new Embassy Suites across from the Tampa Convention Center.

River District (Formally the Cultural Arts District): Art Center Lofts is entering its final phase of construction and will begin to accept residents soon. This past weekend the new Patel Conservatory opened to the public bringing more vibrancy to the district.

Downtown West District: The University of Tampa continues to reach its goals of constructing new residences halls. In fact, soon the wrecking ball will be swinging at the corner of Hyde Park Avenue and Kennedy Boulevard to make way for a new private dorm to meet UT's growing demand for campus housing.

From 12/6/04 http://www.tampasdowntown.com/memo.htm

[Jasonhouse]

I also think the location of the History center sucks major, major ass. It should either be in the old Fed courthouse, or it should be on a site along Ashley, in the "Arts District".

Where they are siting the museum is so far off the beaten path that it will be all but ignored. I understand that area is really growing, but the arena, the park, and the parking lots surrounding it, gaurentee that few will ever really see it. It's a very low profile location for such a use.


btw, Smiley is right about 900-1000 Channelside being U/C... When I saw it yesterday, it looked like they are doing prep work on the foundation of the northern building.

oh yeah, last week when I drove through DT, I left via Kennedy, and saw a bunch of contractor types gathered at Hyde Park Ave and Kennedy donning hard hats (lol) and looking at prints. I would imagine that those dorms are going up sooner than later.

[smiley]

Excellent. While smallish, that 1000/900 Channelside project will connect nicely and fill in some small spaces. I like it. Smallish projects add fabric.

As for the dorm - I hope so. The more dorms they can get in the Kennedy area the better. I jsut wish there was more spinoff business on the corridor to make it really come to life, but I guess it will come sooner or later.

If only we could get teh condo floks to start thinking over there . . .

[loureed]

This is why I give up on Tampa. Not putting the casino downtown, the I-4 corridor becoming Bush country, and something like the history museum.

[smiley]

"I-4 corridor becoming Bush country"

You're not from here, are you?

[smiley]

JAsonhouse, you were askign about that lot:

PLAY. LEARN. GROW. BUILD.
By: David Penn,
President/CEO of Kid City,
The Children's Museum of Tampa

That's what we're all about at Kid City, The Children's Museum of Tampa. Today, Children's Museums focus on providing "TLC" - Toddlers to Teenagers, Literacy, and Cultural Diversity. For Tampa-area children, The Children's Museum has been a place for fun in a learning environment. The Children's Museum of Tampa's two exhibits - an early childhood exhibit and a miniature city - have provided young children an opportunity to play while developing a sense of the community around them.

The vision, mission and values of Kid City, The Children's Museum of Tampa, are to inspire children and families by creating learning opportunities through community, creativity, curiosity, discovery, diversity, friendliness, fun, imagination and innovative play. The vision we now bring to the community is to take all the things we do so well and build a NEW children's museum for the Tampa Bay community.

The NEW Children's Museum of Tampa:
where learning is no work and all play

Encouraging families to learn together, children's museums are where children play to learn and grown-ups learn to play. The NEW Children's Museum of Tampa will be built in the downtown cultural arts district thanks to a gift of land from the City of Tampa and support from Hillsborough County. The location will make it possible for residents and visitors to easily spend a day along Tampa's waterfront, enjoying the park, the river, and taking advantage of numerous cultural opportunities that will keep bringing them back for more. The Children's Museum of Tampa is one of several projects in this area that bode well for the economic health of downtown Tampa.

The NEW Children's Museum of Tampa will provide a greater variety of exhibits. For toddlers to teenagers, we are planning at least 10 large multi-subject exhibits and a Family Education Center, with a Math/Reading Tutoring Center, Language Lab, and Youth Leadership Center. We also have researched the "Top 10" exhibits favored by children around the world at other children's museums. The top museum exhibits we hope to include are: a grocery, a water play area, an art display, the "Our Town" miniature city, bubbles, a toddler/Pre -K area, a multi-cultural exhibit, a diner/café, and exhibit about animals and an exhibit focused on science.

Additional ideas include several unique exhibits that either have never been done - or have not been done in a very long time: A Music Factory, A Live TV Studio, Adoption Options, Ability Avenue, A Story-Book Street and A Grandparents' Resource Center.

In an effort to plan strategically for the project, The Children's Museum of Tampa is undertaking a study to determine the availability of funds as well as the attitudes that may impact its ability to attract these funds. This planning study is designed to seek the input of key community leaders and is the first step in this important project. Your input is greatly valued and gratefully acknowledged. If you would like more information on any aspect of the NEW Children's Museum of Tampa, please call me at 813-935-8441 ext. 225.

Play. Learn. Grow. Build. We began serving Tampa Bay's children in a small storefront. The generosity and tenacity of our founders and other community leaders has allowed us to expand programming, enhance our community outreach, perform necessary facility renovation and increase membership. We're ready for the next phase of our development and growth and we'll need your help to make it happen.

Kid City, The Children's Museum of Tampa is a great place for families. Kids play to learn and adults learn to play. If you haven't been in a while, come see us!

About the Author:
David Penn has been at Kid City, The Children's Museum of Tampa since August, 2002. Prior to coming to Tampa, he was the Vice President of the Orlando Science Center. He has 20 years of executive experience with a Fortune 500 company and various nonprofits. David was selected as the nonprofit Executive Director of the Year in 1993. He is a graduate of Harvard University and was an international scholar at Richmond College in London, England. David and his wife Robin have one daughter, Audrey Ruth, and are in the process of adopting two boys.
http://tampasdowntown.com/intown120704a.htm

[Jasonhouse]

I woudl think that kids museum would be better off near MOSI or something...But DT is great too.

Too bad MOSI is out in the sticks, huh? Of course, that place consumes a good bit of land now that it is fairly large.

[tampabound]

This is why I give up on Tampa. Not putting the casino downtown, the I-4 corridor becoming Bush country, and something like the history museum.

1. The casino couldn't have been placed anywhere else. It could have only been built in Seminole land.
2. I-4 corridor is 49% pro-Bush. Let's not forget that.
3. Why is that such a bad site for the history museum? They are building this right next to Channelside within walking distance of the shops and next to a trolley stop. The site is significant because that is where Fort Brooke was founded. AND they are filling up the waterfront with public space (and the construction would likely include the northern leg of the riverwalk).

[TTown]

This is why I give up on Tampa. Not putting the casino downtown, the I-4 corridor becoming Bush country, and something like the history museum.



It is the strong economy of George Bush and the great govenership of Jeb that is making it possible for all these intown developments around the country and state.

[TTown]

If you werre given a billion dollars ( and have to be practicle). What would you do in your city?

[sarasotan]

It is the strong economy of George Bush and the great govenership of Jeb that is making it possible for all these intown developments around the country and state.


US growth is slow, the dollar is in decline (against the economies of economically weaker nations becasue of Bush's fiscal policy), we have huge deficit spending (that spell future high taxes as the boomer retire and bankrupt our nation) and our rates of homelessness are skyrocketing. The Bush economy isn't "making" the real-estate re-development of Florida possible, its hampering its speed. No matter the party, Florida will continue to prosper, but a bad national economy isn't doing anything for us.

[Dale]

US growth is slow, the dollar is in decline (against the economies of economically weaker nations becasue of Bush's fiscal policy), we have huge deficit spending (that spell future high taxes as the boomer retire and bankrupt our nation) and our rates of homelessness are skyrocketing. The Bush economy isn't "making" the real-estate re-development of Florida possible, its hampering its speed. No matter the party, Florida will continue to prosper, but a bad national economy isn't doing anything for us.

US growth is strong - the strongest in 20 years.

And yes, we have a massive deficit, without which the economy would be even stronger. But liberal policies are at least equally to blame for sapping potential.

[smiley]

You wanna help the economy - stop buying stuff made in China.

[smiley]

Condo proposal stirs up neighbors; [STATE Edition]
JAY CRIDLIN. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Dec 10, 2004. pg. 1
Abstract (Document Summary)
Bradenton developer Kendar Corp. has asked the county to rezone the 2.7-acre property from commercial to planned development, allowing them to tear down the Ramada, which has stood on the site for four decades. The new condominium complex, Surfside-Adamar, would include condos priced from $400,000 to $1.5-million.

The County Commission land use meeting is scheduled for 9 a.m. Tuesday at the County Center, 601 E Kennedy Blvd. in Tampa. For information on the Kendar request (Petition RZ 04-0979), call the Planning and Growth Management department at 272-5920.

Full Text (315 words)
Copyright Times Publishing Co. Dec 10, 2004
The Hillsborough County Commission on Tuesday will consider a developer's controversial proposal for 53 luxury condominiums on the site of the Apollo Beach Ramada Inn.

Hundreds of Apollo Beach residents have opposed the planned building's height - eight stories, or 90 feet - saying it would block views of and access to Tampa Bay.

Bradenton developer Kendar Corp. has asked the county to rezone the 2.7-acre property from commercial to planned development, allowing them to tear down the Ramada, which has stood on the site for four decades. The new condominium complex, Surfside-Adamar, would include condos priced from $400,000 to $1.5-million.

Kendar's president, Darrell Reha, said he believes the board will approve the plan.

"We've got all our ducks in a row and we're ready to go," he said. "I think we met everything that the land development code and the county required. The zoning department approved it, the zoning hearing master approved it. We're just optimistic that it'll follow in succession through the board."

Residents aren't prepared to go down without a fight. Barbara Compton is organizing a busload of about 50 residents to attend Tuesday's meeting, where her husband Wes Compton will speak against the condos.

"We'll find a way to get everyone down there," Barbara Compton said. "I'm looking forward to it."

The County Commission land use meeting is scheduled for 9 a.m. Tuesday at the County Center, 601 E Kennedy Blvd. in Tampa. For information on the Kendar request (Petition RZ 04-0979), call the Planning and Growth Management department at 272-5920.

Apollo Beach residents who need a ride to the meeting can call Compton at 785-3232.

Jay Cridlin can be reached at cridlin@sptimes.com or 661-2442.

[Illustration]
Caption: Armwood's Jameel Williams in game action; Janet Graddy (face not shown) keeps people moving during her class that she teaches at the Campo Family YMCA 3414 Culbreath Road in Valrico.; Photo: PHOTO, (2)

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes/760576281.html?MAC=7da73321201b3e2c2c461ac4d86442e1&did=760576281&FMT=FT&FMTS=FT&date=Dec+10%2C+2004&author=JAY+CRIDLIN&printformat=&desc=Condo+proposal+stirs+up+neighbors

[smiley]

I beleive this is the parking lot next to the office building on Bay to Bay where they used to have a sign for a proposed office building. I assume they figured condos were a better deal - they probably are. . .I see no reason this will not happen. THe streets back there are not too crowded and it is not so tall that peopel can get really offended. Nice filler project.

Developers Plan Tower Near Bayshore
By JOSH POLTILOVE jpoltilove@tampatrib.com
Published: Dec 11, 2004




SOUTH TAMPA - Developers want to build a 15-story condominium tower a block from Bayshore Boulevard.
The 144,877-square-foot, 60-unit building would replace a parking lot on Ysabella Avenue near Barcelona Street. It would have about 300 parking spaces, some of which would be used by businesses at Ysabella and Bay to Bay Boulevard, a city urban planner said. Those businesses currently use the parking lot.

Douglas Development Services Inc. of Winter Park will ask the city council next month to rezone the property. It was rezoned in 2000 to allow offices, city planner Angela Hurley said.

The tower, which could be 165 feet tall, would include five stories of parking beneath 10 stories of condominiums. There would be a pool and amenity deck, plans show.

The developers could not be reached for comment.

Vicki Pollyea, president of Bayshore Gardens' civic group, said the project likely would add traffic problems, but the parcel is ``in a valuable part of Tampa, and it's not going to stay [a parking lot] forever.''

Congregation Rodeph Sholom members use the lot for overflow parking.

``We've always had good relations with our neighbors, and we would try to have good relations with our new neighbors,'' Rabbi Marc Sack said.

http://tampatrib.com/News/MGBVJUVYK2E.html

[loureed]

US growth is strong - the strongest in 20 years.

And yes, we have a massive deficit, without which the economy would be even stronger. But liberal policies are at least equally to blame for sapping potential.

Dale, Bush's administration has single handily given us the largest deficit in US history. It's not just the Iraq War. It's his many, many drastic programs like giving prescription drugs in Medicare which seniors have no idea how to use.

If Bush gets his way with social security, we would have to pay 1 to 2 trillion dollars in the process of transfering the system to the vision Bush has for it. That's many more times than the Iraq War. And Bush ruled out tax increases to fund the overhaul. What's with you conservatives and spending?


And to what the other kid said, almost every major city in the US is going a downtown revival. I guess they have the same great leadership of Jeb Bush as well. He must be a dime a dozen then.

[Jasonhouse]

That filler condo sounds like a nice size there. If the building is of high quality, I would hope people would encourage it. (lol. fat chance)

I don't under stand why someone hasn't tried to find a way to build some taller stuff off Dale Mabry near like Henerson or something. To me, that would be one heck of a location for a nice penthouse view.

[smiley]

LouReed,

I fully respect your right to post about macroeconomics and politics, but what is it doing in the Tampa Development thread?

[loureed]

hmmm.... this is why we are losing :D :ohno:

[Dale]

Dale, Bush's administration has single handily given us the largest deficit in US history. It's not just the Iraq War. It's his many, many drastic programs like giving prescription drugs in Medicare which seniors have no idea how to use.

If Bush gets his way with social security, we would have to pay 1 to 2 trillion dollars in the process of transfering the system to the vision Bush has for it. That's many more times than the Iraq War. And Bush ruled out tax increases to fund the overhaul. What's with you conservatives and spending?


And to what the other kid said, almost every major city in the US is going a downtown revival. I guess they have the same great leadership of Jeb Bush as well. He must be a dime a dozen then.

Growth rate is the strongest in 20 years. You won't give Bush credit for anything, will you ?

[loureed]

Dale, lets talk about it in the Declining Dollar Thread in our favorite section; the UK skybar.

[smiley]

By thw way, 1000/900 Channelside is underconstruction -they were driving something out there when I drove by. It makes me happy. And the Embassy Suites is starting to emerge from the gournd. Meridian is working on the thrid floor. all this is nice, and will be nicer when the bigger things get going.

[tampabound]

4-floor lofts/townhouses are starting construction on 4th avenue in Ybor (the ones near 15th st). also, the ugly parking lot on Ashley across from the art museum seems to be nearing demolition. i take it they are getting ready to clear the ground for the condo tower there.

[Jasonhouse]

Dale, stop hijacking threads with this shit man!

you too LouReed. Politics belongs in the Skybar.

[Dale]

Dale, stop hijacking threads with this shit man!

you too LouReed. Politics belongs in the Skybar.

Thanks for mentioning lou too. *rolls eyes*

[tonyff67]

I believe the Hampton Inn on 7th ave opened this week.

It Should really help those one or two far western blocks of 7th that have never been able to keep businesses for long.

[Jasonhouse]

The hotel will help some. That whole end of Ybor needs to see a bit of densification before that end of the strip picks up.

The Blue Ribbon Market thing would help.

[smiley]

Ok, so I was downtown yesterday and I saw the big wood fence around the TECO parking garage. And, yes, it looks like more than one would put up to bring a garage down (why the hell would you wall it off - just put a chain link fence- but I would be shocked if that condo tower was going up with the next year. To my knowledge they haven't even reserved units yet. . .

Ok, so the website says construction in Spring 2005, but who the hell believes realtor websites. Of course, that would be nice, but I won't believe it until I see it.

Very odd.

[smiley]

On the other hand, I was in the Poe garage at night and looking out over the river, I was amazed at how good the city actually looked. I guess the warts are hidden in the dark.

[smiley]

Iorio, stop messing around and build it before it triples . . .

Art museum cost now $54-million
The new estimate for the Tampa Museum of Art is about $3-million more than one in May.
By JANET ZINK, Times Staff Writer
Published December 14, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


TAMPA - City and museum leaders got final construction figures Monday for the proposed new Tampa Museum of Art.

The price tag: $54-million.

That's about $10-million above the price given in early 2003, when Mayor Pam Iorio postponed a planned groundbreaking until museum backers could raise their portion of construction costs. It's also $3-million more than an estimate given in May.

"We'd like it to be less, but we have a number," said Steve Daignault, the city's administrator for public works and utilities. "Now we'll see if we can get all the forces together and agree to build it."

The rising price of building materials in the past 18 months caused the increased costs.

The figure, given by Beck construction company, will be locked in until this Jan. 13, Daignault said. He said he is asking Beck for an extension on the lock-in so the museum can produce a business plan and finalize its financing. City officials also need to negotiate an operating agreement with the museum and take the issue to the City Council for consideration.

"With all the things we have to get done between now and when it gets to the City Council, that's not going to work," Daignault said of the Jan. 13 date.

Iorio said last week that she won't release the city's $30-million contribution for construction until she sees a viable business plan for the proposed 150,000-square-foot museum. The city has already committed about $8-million for architectural and engineering services, leaving $22-million for bricks and mortar.

Cornelia Corbett, chairwoman of the museum board, said private backers have raised about $30-million to build the museum. They need to raise another $12-million, she said, to pay for construction and moving to and furnishing the new facility.

"We can do it," she said. "We're very excited about getting this thing going."

[Last modified December 14, 2004, 00:30:22]
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/12/14/Hillsborough/Art_museum_cost_now_5.shtml

[Jasonhouse]

Jeez, just have the city sign off on the construction before it does get worse.

Isn't it now to the point where what the rise in construction has cost, exceeds what they fundraising was short on in the first place? I'm certain they were closer than $12 million away before.

[smiley]

I am all for being careful with the purse strings, but you have to look at conditions in the market and determine if your caution is actually beneficial or detrimental. She did not do that. Some one was not paying attention.

[loureed]

Blame China!

[smiley]

I know you are joikng but I'll say this:

While China is to blame for many things, she should have been watching. It is not like this is the only thing in the city budget that will be affected.

[dreams_rowdy]

Does it piss anyone else off that Iorio is championing this "cultural arts district" and trying to foster an artists' enclave in Tampa yet she won't commit more funds to the museum? It's like she's trying to market a global city without opening up the city's pocketbook for what's needed. Like smiley aptly noted, "It is not like this is the only thing in the city budget that will be affected." And why are we destroying parkland and riverfront property for the history center while we're trying to create a riverwalk/park queue downtown? Who's gonna flock to Tampa to see its history center?

[Lakelander]

You have a good point. Its time for the Iorio to put the money where her mouth is. Everything's nothing but pie in the sky, without the funds to proceed. Furthermore, once again, I still don't understand how the new history center didn't end up being a part of the "Cultural Arts" district. I always thought that placing diverse cultural uses, such as art museums and history centers, in a compact setting is how you would create a "cultural arts district". But that's me, maybe I'm just wrong.

[smiley]

It is a matter of philosophy - she jsut won't do it because she wants to run as someone who did not wate city dollars. Though she will wate city dollars - but no one will poitn that out.

AS for the History museum, the reason they got that lot is because the Historical Society is run by old Tampa money. That's pertty much it. They wanted it so they got it. Nevermind htat it does not make sense. that is irrelevant.

[dreams_rowdy]

Bastards. Iorio is tramp. Oh well, at least we'll have a revamped 40th Street thanks to her, because that's important! (Oh the times when you need a sarcastic font...)

On to other news, that doesn't piss me off: there is definately some site prep going on at the TB1 site. I think they're putting down rebar for the foundation, and there's a huge SKANSA billboard fronting Cypress St. Their website is down too. Are we sure they didn't find their tenant?

[smiley]

Well, she might let it die, for what reason, I don't know . . .

Prospects For Art Museum Uncertain
By ANDY REID and AMANDA HENRY The Tampa Tribune
Published: Dec 16, 2004




TAMPA - Time could run out on a deal needed to start construction on the long-delayed new Tampa Museum of Art.
The museum's board of trustees met Wednesday but didn't commit to meeting Mayor Pam Iorio's deadline of Friday to produce a business plan that shows a new downtown museum building could operate in the black.

Iorio said she needs to have the business plan by Friday to move forward with a deal that includes $29.8 million in city money to help build the new museum, planned between the Hillsborough River and Ashley Drive.

Iorio continued to raise concerns Wednesday that even though about $43 million in pledges has been raised to help build the new museum, it does not have a sufficient plan to cover yearly operating costs.

The new museum has been the centerpiece of city plans to create downtown riverfront attractions, but Iorio said, ``There are always other options'' if the deal falls apart.

``We are on an extremely tight timeline,'' Iorio said. ``We need to see how this museum can operate in good times and bad.''

Museum officials said they expect to provide a plan to Iorio by the end of the year that shows they can operate the new museum without asking taxpayers to pick up more of the tab.

They don't expect to be able to deliver that plan by their meeting Friday with Iorio.

``The mayor very much wants this building, but she wants it to be fiscally sound, and she's absolutely right. We want it to be fiscally sound,'' said Cornelia Corbett, chairwoman of the museum's board of trustees. ``We're very proud of the fact that we are doing due diligence.''

The city learned Monday that it would cost almost $54 million to build the new museum - an increase of $10 million since April 2003, when Iorio put the project on hold until the museum could complete raising funds.

The total cost of the project increased to about $72 million, including $29.8 million from the city. The construction costs rose primarily because of increases in the price of building materials.

In November, a consultant's report estimated it would cost $7 million a year to operate the museum.

Iorio said the city won't exceed its commitment to provide $2 million a year for operations, and museum trustees need to show how they will come up with the rest.

Iorio said she needs a business plan by Friday so she has time to send a preliminary operating agreement to the Tampa City Council on Jan. 6, which would set up a final vote by Feb. 10 - before the guaranteed construction price expires.

The price to build the museum likely goes up after Feb. 10, and that means it would be time to ``re-evaluate'' proceeding with the museum project, Iorio said.

``These are requirements we have had in place for a long time,'' Iorio said.

Museum officials are counting on Iorio giving them until the end of the year to provide a plan for covering operating costs.

At a meeting Wednesday, the museum's board of trustees was presented with the most recent figures on construction and related expenses, as well as the status of the museum's capital campaign and operational plans.

Museum officials reiterated their confidence that, with $43 million in pledges, they would be able to meet their $47 million fundraising goal by the end of the year.

Museum director Emily Kass indicated that the delay was based on several factors: the need to supplement the consultant's report with data from additional comparable institutions; the new information on construction costs released Monday; and the need to present their preliminary plan to the board of trustees for approval before meeting with the mayor.

``We're on a timeline for the mayor to provide information to the city council by Jan. 6,'' Kass said.


Reporter Andy Reid can be reached at (813) 259-8409.

http://www.tampatrib.com/News/MGBB34UIS2E.html

[tampabound]

Developers Plan Tower Near Bayshore
By JOSH POLTILOVE jpoltilove@tampatrib.com
Published: Dec 11, 2004




SOUTH TAMPA - Developers want to build a 15-story condominium tower a block from Bayshore Boulevard.
The 144,877-square-foot, 60-unit building would replace a parking lot on Ysabella Avenue near Barcelona Street. It would have about 300 parking spaces, some of which would be used by businesses at Ysabella and Bay to Bay Boulevard, a city urban planner said. Those businesses currently use the parking lot.

Douglas Development Services Inc. of Winter Park will ask the city council next month to rezone the property. It was rezoned in 2000 to allow offices, city planner Angela Hurley said.

The tower, which could be 165 feet tall, would include five stories of parking beneath 10 stories of condominiums. There would be a pool and amenity deck, plans show.

The developers could not be reached for comment.

Vicki Pollyea, president of Bayshore Gardens' civic group, said the project likely would add traffic problems, but the parcel is ``in a valuable part of Tampa, and it's not going to stay [a parking lot] forever.''

Congregation Rodeph Sholom members use the lot for overflow parking.

``We've always had good relations with our neighbors, and we would try to have good relations with our new neighbors,'' Rabbi Marc Sack said.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[smiley]

Oh, I have full faith that this condo will get built.

[Jasonhouse]

On to other news, that doesn't piss me off: there is definately some site prep going on at the TB1 site. I think they're putting down rebar for the foundation, and there's a huge SKANSA billboard fronting Cypress St. Their website is down too. Are we sure they didn't find their tenant?


You don't find 350-400k sqft tenants in that much secrecy.

Perhaps they are shifting the project to more condos, and are building a sales center? :lol:

[Jasonhouse]

And on that 15 story Bayshore condo proposal... That will easily get approved and get built, all because they threw in a few dozen parking spaces to be used by the public. :)l

[smiley]

They should go all condo and screw the offices. The condos will support the retail and the office will come when more people are there.

I doubt they are doing anything. We would have heard. Their PR machine is quite good. OF course, their site may be down because they are changing the plans.

[radicalqaz]

The latest development
By MICHAEL CANNING
Published December 17, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spain Lofts

LOCATION: 509 N Tampa St.

DEVELOPER: Siblings Alfredo Castro, Susana Castro-Alacaraz and Maria Castro-Sansone.

DESCRIPTION: Three-story, 84-year-old commercial building in downtown Tampa. Spain restaurant, owned by the Castros' mother, Maria Castro, occupies the ground floor. The second and third floors, which total about 8,800 square feet, have been gutted and are being renovated into six loft apartments. Each floor will have two one-bedroom, one-bathroom apartments with 950 square feet each, and one two-bedroom, two-bathroom apartment with 1,400 square feet.

PRICE: Monthly leases will be in the $1.25 to $1.50 per-square-foot range, Alfredo Castro said.

AMENITIES: The historic building's original high ceilings, tall windows and wooden ceiling pillars will be incorporated into the lofts' design, he said. Stainless steel appliances are planned for the kitchens.

WHAT THEY'RE SAYING: Upcoming residential development in the northern half of downtown has spurred interest in the Spain Lofts, Castro said. "We've gotten an overwhelming response. We've got 50 people that want to buy them." But they're not for sale, he said.

TIMELINE: The Castro family bought the building in 1998. In June 2003, they moved Spain restaurant to the ground floor from its former location around the corner, at 207 E Twiggs St. After a prolonged permitting process, Castro hopes construction will begin early next year.

MOVE-IN DATE: Tentatively set for May.

FOR INFORMATION: Call Spain restaurant at 223-2831.

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/12/17/Citytimes/The_latest_development.shtml

[smiley]

This was teh 12th street lofts at one point

LOFTS TO REPLACE LOFTS: Donald Ebbert planned to build a seven-unit loft project at 210 N 12th St. in the Channel District.

Zoning laws allowed for more units on the site, but Ebbert wanted to maximize the greenspace instead of the profit.

Now, Ebbert said, rising concrete and steel prices "made the project no longer viable."

So he recently sold the property to Atlanta developers White and Associates, who are planning 30 lofts.

The new developers envision a six-story, red brick building reminiscent of the early 20th century warehouses that once dominated the neighborhood.

Ebbert's project, the CCX North Condominiums, with its sleek and boxy design, had been inspired by the cargo containers at the nearby Port of Tampa.

J. Carter Simmons of White and Associates said the first two floors will contain parking, and about 2,000 square feet on the ground floor will be set aside for retail space.

One-bedroom and one-bathroom units will range from 1,100 to 1,250 square feet. Two-bedroom, two-bathroom units will have 1,300 to 1,800 square feet. Each will have tall ceilings and exposed brick walls, ducts and structural elements.

Most units will have balconies, and a few will have terraces, Simmons said. Rounding out the amenities: stainless steel kitchen appliances, maple cabinets granite counter tops, and baths with garden tubs and separate shower stalls.

Prices and construction dates haven't been set. Simmons anticipates prices in the low $300,000s to low $500,000s and a groundbreaking in the spring.

The project has been tentatively dubbed the Lafayette Lofts, a nod to a former name of nearby Kennedy Boulevard.
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/12/17/Citytimes/Space_has_new_life_as.shtml

[tonyff67]

^Thank God. I really hated those original lofts. They reminded me of the space ship at 2001.


Anyone been by the 900 and 1000 Channelside site. They are Pounding pilings in the ground(basically telephone poles). I don't know much about construction, but are these going to be the supports for the building????

I don't get it. They are made of wood . They can't last more than 50 or 60 years underground, I would think.

Please, Educate me!!!!

[smiley]

I would loveto help you but I am unsure myself. I will ask an architect friend of mine.

More on the museum - Iorio relents a bit:

Museum's Fundraising Plan Secures Dec. 28 Extension
By ANDY REID areid@tampatrib.com
Published: Dec 17, 2004




TAMPA - Tampa Museum of Arts fundraisers won a reprieve from today's deadline to show Mayor Pam Iorio they can operate a new building without more taxpayer help.
Iorio on Thursday gave the museum's board of trustees until Dec. 28 to present a business plan that shows it can cover its share of the projected $7 million-a-year cost to run a new museum proposed downtown.

The museum board also has to provide confirmation that it has a lender to back up its fundraising commitments.

Iorio said she needs the business plan before moving forward with a deal that includes $29.8 million in city money to help build the museum, planned next to the old one between the Hillsborough River and Ashley Drive.

``They tell us they are very close,'' Iorio said. ``We want to give them every opportunity to make this happen.''

The purpose of the deadline was to give the city more time to submit a proposed operations agreement to the city clerk by Dec. 29 so it can go before the Tampa City Council on Jan. 6.

That sets up a final council vote Feb. 10 - the day the latest guaranteed price to build the museum expires.

``It is crunch time,'' said Cornelia Corbett, chairwoman of the museum's board of trustees. ``We plan to meet the deadlines.''

The new museum has been the centerpiece of city plans to create downtown riverfront attractions, but Iorio said this week that ``there are always other options'' if the deal falls apart.

The city learned Monday that it would cost almost $54 million to build the museum - $10 million more than projected.

Iorio has said the city wouldn't proceed with construction until the museum raised all of its share of the money needed to build and furnish the facility, and could show it would operate in the black.

The total cost of the project increased to about $72 million, including $29.8 million from the city. The construction costs rose primarily because of increases in the price of building materials during the delay.

Museum fundraisers' $43 million in commitments exceeds the old goal of $32 million but remains about $4 million short of what's needed because of the increased price.

In November, a consultant's report estimated it would cost $7 million a year to operate the museum.

Iorio said the city won't exceed its commitment to provide $2 million a year for operations, and museum trustees need to show how they will come up with the rest.

Corbett said the museum board produced a conservative operating budget but is being asked to plan for the ``worst- case scenario.''

City Finance Director Bonnie Wise meets with museum representatives today to work on the operating plan.


Reporter Andy Reid can be reached at (813) 259-8409.

http://tampatrib.com/floridametronews/MGBM8ODXT2E.html

[smiley]

Ok, he says probably test pilings to check the soil and load bearing capacity underneath.

[tonyff67]

Thank you Smiley!!

They are putting an awful lot of them in.

[John F]

how do you delete a post on here???

[Jasonhouse]

You can't, only mods do.

[John F]

bah, humbug. ;)

[radicalqaz]

I was driving on Kennedy when I came across a billboard talking about O2 Condos

Here is the website: http://www.o2condos.com/

It is going to be in Channelside across from the Forum. Two 41 story towers

[dudeintampa]

I was driving on Kennedy when I came across a billboard talking about O2 Condos

Here is the website: http://www.o2condos.com/

It is going to be in Channelside across from the Forum. Two 41 story towers


O2 Condos is Pinnacle Place, right? Site says its being marketed by Toni Everett. The only odd thing I see is that the needle thingy isn't shown. Did they delete it from the project?

[radicalqaz]

O2 Condos is Pinnacle Place, right? Site says its being marketed by Toni Everett. The only odd thing I see is that the needle thingy isn't shown. Did they delete it from the project?

well now to think about it, it does look the same and everything except the observation tower...

[zimna8080]

I was driving on Kennedy when I came across a billboard talking about O2 Condos

Here is the website: http://www.o2condos.com/

It is going to be in Channelside across from the Forum. Two 41 story towers

Frank DeBose at Pinnacle Group holdings couldnt get the project off the ground (it's in it's 10th year...), so he sold control of it to Corvus. They scrapped the observation tower ... but... is that really surprising?

Cheers,
Justin
www.bayciti.net

[Dale]

Did the sale occur just recently ?

[zimna8080]

Did the sale occur just recently ?

The corvus website says that Pinnacle Partnered with Corvus in August

http://www.corvusint.com/commercial/news/details.cfm?ID=14


... the real reason is that Pinnacle Group holdings couldnt develop it on their own and had to give it to someone who could. They'd been trying for years... Frank DeBose is the man behind the project and is known for being secretive and paranoid about things. I've talked to him a few times, and he doesn't like giving up information.

I think now the project has a chance, I was pretty skeptical about it before.

Now on to TB1 and the Hillsborough River Tower :)

Justin
www.bayciti.net

[Dale]

Intersting, just weeks ago fwdodge.com reported that the observation tower would be under construction before years end.

[zimna8080]

Intersting, just weeks ago fwdodge.com reported that the observation tower would be under construction before years end.

There is a possibility that it's still there, just being developed separately? Skanska is going to build the condo towers... I personally don't see how an observation tower can make any money...

Justin
www.bayciti.net

[Jasonhouse]

btw, there is absolutely nothing going on at TB1. It is being used as an equipment storage area, just as I suspected.


I wonder what they will do with the rest of the land from the defunct Pinnacle project?

[jvance75]

^^

[smiley]

Who said anything about defunct? I am assuming that because the rendering did not have the tower in it, you are assuming the tower will not be built (not that I care much either way), but that is not necessarily the case.

Moreover, if you look at the website, Pinnacle Holdings is listed as one of the developers. I am not surprised that DuBose brought in outside investors and developers, that happens all the time.

What I am basically saying is that, until someone tells me the tower plan is dropped, I will not beleive they dropped it. Until someone with credibility tells me that building one is not more than 70% reserved and about 45-50% sold (as I have been told), I will not believe them. (Toni Everett's folks are working on this so it is probably going to work out nicely - she can sell anything)

I choose to wait and see. An I would rather they built a cool hotel, office, condo job with an observation deck than that needle thing.

[axerod]

O2 Condos is Pinnacle Place, right? Site says its being marketed by Toni Everett. The only odd thing I see is that the needle thingy isn't shown. Did they delete it from the project?




Actually I don't think its the Pinnacle Tower project, this might actually be a different project, I think the Tower Project is North of this particular site! someone correct me if my assumption is incorrect!

[dreams_rowdy]

btw, there is absolutely nothing going on at TB1. It is being used as an equipment storage area, just as I suspected.

Hmm...I didn't think I was that crazy to imagine seeing rebar pounded into the ground and large piles of loose shale. I'll drive by tomorrow and take pics--maybe it's just a utilities project or something?

As for the Hillsborough River Tower, the last I heard it was on hold because of modest absorption rates downtown. There's another 500 000 sq. ft. of Class A office space on the docket for Westshore, about 100 000 sq. ft. more than the Hillsborough River Tower was going to offer. The future of the tower, then, seems dubious at best (with the little info that I have.)

[zimna8080]

Who said anything about defunct? I am assuming that because the rendering did not have the tower in it, you are assuming the tower will not be built (not that I care much either way), but that is not necessarily the case.

Moreover, if you look at the website, Pinnacle Holdings is listed as one of the developers. I am not surprised that DuBose brought in outside investors and developers, that happens all the time.

What I am basically saying is that, until someone tells me the tower plan is dropped, I will not beleive they dropped it. Until someone with credibility tells me that building one is not more than 70% reserved and about 45-50% sold (as I have been told), I will not believe them. (Toni Everett's folks are working on this so it is probably going to work out nicely - she can sell anything)

I choose to wait and see. An I would rather they built a cool hotel, office, condo job with an observation deck than that needle thing.

Hi,

It's true that outside developers are brought in all the time, but this is an odd project. Remember that it was first announced in 1994 (also... remember Heritage Tower?), the city of Tampa approved the tower plans way back in 1998... and outside developers have been brought in on this one more than once. This is different because the rights to the project were sold, and the new developer renamed it and substantially changed the plans. Pinnacle is probably a consultant still.

I'm saying the tower won't built with this phase one because a) it's a tower and no one builds these things anymore b) it's not on the Skanska construction data sheets with the condo towers and c) the city permit to build it expired and was not renewed (City of Tampa). It might be built later, but I kinda doubt it.

Toni Everett is great at selling things, I know her, she sold me my condo (345 Bayshore). I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the condo towers themselves, those are going to be awesome.

Cheers,
Justin
www.bayciti.net

[smiley]

Where is the info that they sold all the rights from and for how much did he sell them and could it be he is just cashing in now that he finally has some success. holding condos can be a risky and expensive venture. That's why people build condos and not apartments - to cash in and get out. (btw, what Skanska construction data sheets?)

What I am saying is tales of crisis may be true, but I have seen nothing that shows me that they are. Morever, the time frame for the needle (of which I have never been fond anyway) was never clear.

[zimna8080]

Where is the info that they sold all the rights from and for how much did he sell them and could it be he is just cashing in now that he finally has some success. holding condos can be a risky and expensive venture. That's why people build condos and not apartments - to cash in and get out. (btw, what Skanska construction data sheets?)

What I am saying is tales of crisis may be true, but I have seen nothing that shows me that they are. Morever, the time frame for the needle (of which I have never been fond anyway) was never clear.

I called Frank and asked him about the project back in October, Pinnacle's number is in the book. The easiest way to get info from a developer is to call and ask them - (except Smith and Associates of the McNulty lofts, they were mean).

You can get construction data sheets from builders, usually just by asking them. I've contracted with Skanska for aerial photography so I know some people who work there and I just asked. You can also get construction data from the city, since they have to approve things and the data is public domain. Often times you can go to the city and get data on when projects are supposed to begin and you can see if they've been cancelled by the expiration dates on the permits.

The needle was tacky... it may not be cancelled but it's almost definetely on hold for a while. I'd rather get a condo/office/whatever tower of similar height than an observation tower. So all the cruise ship tourists can look down on our downtown parking lots?

Justin
www.bayciti.net

[smiley]

The needle was tacky... it may not be cancelled but it's almost definetely on hold for a while. I'd rather get a condo/office/whatever tower of similar height than an observation tower. So all the cruise ship tourists can look down on our downtown parking lots?

With this I agree. IF they drop the needle, I think it will be a condo, hotel thingy, myself - probably about 40 floors to match the others.

Did he tell you about sales, because the realtor keeps saying they are good - that could be hype, but I am not so sure it is not true.

And for the record, let's toss in the new rendering - which if you look closely seems to have no street retail - which I can't believe they would allow.
http://www.02condos.com/condo_large_pic.jpg

[zimna8080]

With this I agree. IF they drop the needle, I think it will be a condo, hotel thingy, myself - probably about 40 floors to match the others.

Did he tell you about sales, because the realtor keeps saying they are good - that could be hype, but I am not so sure it is not true....

Hi,

I dont know anything about sales - I never ask. Toni Everett is pretty good about responding to sales inquiries, though. A lot of Channelside developers will give you sales info if you ask.

Every time I hear of people buying condos in buildings that dont exist, I think of all the people who bought lots of Davis Island before they dredged it up from the bay.

Justin
www.bayciti.net

[smiley]

The last number i had (months ago) was 70% reserved in building 1. And I know people who have gone and checked it out and were very impressed. I htink it will start by the end of 2005 (and I am generally a skeptic). Not sure about #2. Of course, I think sales will actually be helped by Towers of Channelside starting construction and people getting an idea of what can be.

as for davis Island - man if you had bought in the early days, your family would be very happy.

[Dale]

Jeez, *end* of 2005 ?

[Lakelander]

Nice rendering. I agree, the lack of retail near the arena is quite puzzling. Where (on that rendering) would the observation tower be located? Is it the patch of green grass in the front?

[smiley]

Jeez, *end* of 2005 ?

I am being conservative - given the need for sales after reservations and other techincal issues. IF sales go as they say, this thing could start much earlier (at least one of them)

The observation tower was to be on the left side behind the left building.

[smiley]

What my source told me is that the groups is essentially the same with a possible added partner and a name change - which was anticipated.

Can't vouch for accuracy, but that is what I was told.

[BRobinson]

*About the observation tower....* it is my understanding (through my source)that the tower will be built separate from the condos and will be owned by the head person at pinnacle

[BRobinson]

Jeez, *end* of 2005 ?
My source also insists that the construction on the condos WILL begin Spring 2005 and that both buildings will be built at the same time.

[Dale]

I like your sources, newbie. :)

[smiley]

Pretty ambitious to build in a few months when they have not sold a single unit yet. Not that I would mind it being built then, but we shall see. . .

[zimna8080]

I like your sources, newbie. :)

Who are these "sources" everyone is talking about? Are you calling the developer, asking the city, friend at the Trib? When you have a big development there is often a lot of conflicting information, knowing where it comes from is a good start towards hashing it all out - especially with Florida and the tremendous amount of stuff going on.

Just curious, but sometimes reading through urban forums is like a bad episode of Dick Tracy.

Justin
www.bayciti.net

[Jasonhouse]

I don't have any sources.

[BRobinson]

I'd rather not name my source but they work in the Pinnacle office.

[smiley]

I don't want to name mine, but they deal with the sales.

[Dale]

I don't want to name mine, but he panhandles in the general area.

[John F]

And I don't want to name my source but...

oh hell, it's you guys. Never mind :p ;)

[CBR3]

Sources? I just make things up. lol.

[FLHawk]

Hey, this is my first post in the Tampa thread. I've decided to give up my voyeur status and join in.

Thought you guys might be interested in the perspective of someone living within the construction zone also known as the Channel District. I've been residing in one of the Channelside 212 Lofts for a little more than a year now.

I've noticed my new neighbors moving in this week at the Victory Lofts. They'll have to get used to the constant dust that covers everything left unexposed, due to the considerable construction in the area w/ the Meridian and 1000 Channelside under way, not to mention the demolition of the Kennedy Bridge and resconstruction of Meridian Drive.

I stopped by the offices of the Towers @ C'side on Sunday and was told that they will be breaking ground in January. This is contrary to what I'd heard, but would be another welcome project in the area.

It will be interesting to see if the 60-foot limit in the district is enforced, as I've heard rumors of several projects that will be over that height; some substantially so.

Although the area is littered with debris and fast food bags from the workers at the various projects, I understood moving in that it's in transition. With the Place, Grand Central, Ventana and LaFayette Lofts all "scheduled" to break ground in 2005, I think it's going get real interesting real soon.

[John F]

In a not-so-related story, downtown Tampa is going to become one big Wireless hotspot...

By years end??

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2004/12/20/daily23.html?f=et83

[smiley]

Not that I care that much, ut amybe someone knows something about these people:

LATEST NEWS
2:01 PM EST Wednesday
Haizlip to plan Tampa museum
The Haizlip Firm has been selected to prepare a comprehensive master