the best future skyline in the baltics

[Homer]

So what do think witch skyline until 2010 will be the best in baltics ?

[John]

What?! This is so POINTLESS!!! BORING!!! :rant: :laugh:

I think in 2010 it still will be between Vilnius and Tallinn just as it is now. Of course unless Riga will manage to build a nice cluster in Kipsala by that time (what is not exactly realistic but still I couldn't completely reject such possibility). So I can't really say what is going to be the absolute leader. I wish and believe it will be Vilnius so my vote goes for it.

[Moolio]

Tallinn.

While all the Baltic capitals have many hi-rise projects going on, Tallinn has the most urban downtown district of all choices -- with or without hi-rise buildings.

edit: taken from the no-poll "the best future skyline in the baltics" -thread...

[sten]

It's still Tallinn. (this isn't my poll answer)

[Geex]

Repost from thread without pool :)

I can see we will have another city VS city discussion

Anyway i don't know which city will have best future skyline, all three Baltic capital (and not only capital) cities have a lot of projects and U/C so it's really hard to tell. And we still don't know how many new projects will be proposed in future and how much of them will be approved and builded.

Only thing i can say, that NCC in Vilnius will look really nice if every now only "visional" project will be completed. But on other hand Tallinn will have really good skyline too and Riga is booming with projects so they will have something to show too. So i don't know

[John]

Tallinn.

While all the Baltic capitals have many hi-rise projects going on, Tallinn has the most urban downtown district of all choices -- with or without hi-rise buildings.

edit: taken from the no-poll "the best future skyline in the baltics" -thread...

If you're talking not only about high-rise buildings so then Riga has by far the most urban downtown in the Baltics. :)

In any case the poll question was the "best future skyline" not "the most urban downtown". There's a difference beween these two.

[Homer]

WTF ? how did i made two the same threads ? sorry guys...:( small problems with internet...can i delete that thread without pool ? if yes, how ?
and what do you all think about Klaipeda ? there are a lot of huge projects :)

[NorthStar77]

In any case the poll question was the "best future skyline" not "the most urban downtown". There's a difference beween these two.

But, atleast in my view, a skyline looks best in an urban setting;)

As for who will have the best in 2010, I dunno. Alot can happen in 5 years.

[B@dGuYoM]

tallin and vilnius. I vote tallin

[John]

@Homer

Your thread will be deleted by a moderator, you cannot delete your threads nor posts.
As for Klaipeda, we should wait for at least a couple of 20+ floorers to be built there to start talking about its skyline. Although judging the number of projects in Klaipeda I'm sure it will be able tocompete with other major skyline cities (Vilnius, Riga, Tallinn) in the future if all those projects will be realised.

[Moolio]

In any case the poll question was the "best future skyline" not "the most urban downtown". There's a difference beween these two.

Not quite. In order to have a good skyline, a city needs dense low-rise building around the hi-rises (which Tallinn has), otherwise the skyline looks kinda shallow. While low-rises can't make a skyline alone, they're needed to create one.

[Estboy]

Damn,didn't see this thread
so copy from the second one:


Tallinn;although Vilnius has more skyscrapers,they aren't so together and don't make such a fabulous skyline
and Riga...not yet

oh,and it's Tallinn

[Lauris]

If Vilnius will be improving so much like pas 2 years, so its obviously Vilnius :D But on the other hand other cities has a great plans as well,I think that Tallinn is our main rival :)
But anyway its hard to say becouse 5 years its a long time period .

[ch1le]

Lauris, past 2 years, Vilnius got a 129m tower, a 70m tower and a 90m tower, tallinn has 2 100m+ highrises uc atm, and one 145m one Uc in a month (hopefully), it is greater then NCC, no doubt...

[John]

^^^
Tallinn's planned "145m" tower is as much 145m as ET is 148m with its antenna :D
What's it's real height? 120m? Still pretty good. ;)

Plus Vilnius has a 105m tower U/C shortly - Center of Registers (pre-construction works are underway). Plus in 2006 a 31+ storey tower is about to be started next to "Vyrokas" residential. That's what we know "for sure". But there might be more projects announced (or just revealed which are unknown to us now) in the next 2 years. So I wouldn't be sure if Tallinn "is greater" than NCC because it is and will remain on the contrary ;)

[Moolio]

^^^
Tallinn's planned "145m" tower is as much 145m as ET is 148m with its antenna :D
What's it's real height? 120m? Still pretty good. ;)

Plus Vilnius has a 105m tower U/C shortly - Center of Registers (pre-construction works are underway). Plus in 2006 a 31+ storey tower is about to be started next to "Vyrokas" residential. That's what we know "for sure". But there might be more projects announced (or just revealed which are unknown to us now) in the next 2 years. So I wouldn't be sure if Tallinn "is greater" than NCC because it is and will remain on the contrary ;)

Again, NCC's surroundings don't meet the level of urbanisation of downtown Tallinn. Tallinn has the best baltic skyline now, and in the future. Hands down.

[ch1le]

John, well, you got Antenna, we get structural spire(its there for slimming properties :Osomething like the box on top of Radisson (same architect) :)! To roof if you want its 125m :)
Well, if you take the initial NCC development, which was ET, EA and Municipality then you see its clearly inferior to 3 100m+ towers (mby 4) uc in 2005

[ch1le]

Again, NCC's surroundings don't meet the level of urbanisation of downtown Tallinn. Tallinn has the best baltic skyline now, and in the future. Hands down.

well, moolio im glad to hear that, but in my opinion, Vilnius skyline looks nicer atm, since the highrises look(and one is) taller

[John]

Again, NCC's surroundings don't meet the level of urbanisation of downtown Tallinn. Tallinn has the best baltic skyline now, and in the future. Hands down.

No, Vilnius has got a better skyline atm if we consider the visual impact from a distance (which is usually what most people consider eveluating the skyline). And in the future... we will see.

We also have to consider that the very first developments in NCC started only in 2002 and considering the progress which was made in these 3 years I have no doubts about the future :)

[ch1le]

No, Vilnius has got a better skyline atm if we consider the visual impact from a distance (which is usually what most people consider eveluating the skyline). And in the future... we will see.

We also have to consider that the very first developments in NCC started only in 2002 and considering the progress which was made in these 3 years I have no doubts about the future :)

i agree

[Oberleutnant]

Vilnius or Tallinn -right now it's impossible to say with so much uncertainty around tower projects.

[John]

i agree

Nice to hear that mate :cheers1:
:D

[ch1le]

i have seen some of Mantaz pictures of NCC from far away ... they were really convincing :)

[Edd]

I am really surprised how easily some people vote for Tallinn (oh well, these were Finns and Estonians mostly :D). I am Lithuanian and I live in Vilnius but still most likely that I'm not going to vote for my city. I think it's very unclear. I would not recommend to forget Riga too and say that it'll be only between Tallinn and Vilnius - it has many projects and maybe it'll be no 1 in terms of skyline in 2010. So most likely I'm not going to vote at all.
Here is some picture for those who say that there is nothing going on in terms of "skyline building" in Vilnius (notice that this angle for skyline shots isn't the best):
http://img158.exs.cx/img158/1251/p6jj1bu.jpg

[John]

@Edd
Nice skyline vision you made. :okay:
Just where's the proposed 31 storey tower next to Vyrokas? You should include this one, too.

What concerns Riga I have no doubts about it but I'm not sure if 2010 is an appropriate date to say that Riga could be better than Vilnius or Tallinn in terms of skyline. 2015-2020 would look more realistic to me. We have not to forget that at this moment there are no any even small high-rise clusters in Riga and first constructions of new high-rises in Kipsala will start only in the next few years. But we will see, I'm not 100% certain myself, maybe in 2010 it will kick asses of both Vilnius and Tallinn. :D

[ch1le]

Edd, i wont even dare to make a render of Tallinn that way, it would scare you pantless :D But mby i will one day ;)

I agree John, Riga is damn scary :)

[pablonis]

^^^ yeah yeah, i would s*** into my pants :D ;)
and i dont know why, but riga doesnt scare me at all, i know it will have great skyline, but it wont be much more spectacular than vilnius or tallinn ones :)

[jimm]

Hey where is Šiauliai? :D

[Lauris]

Nice photo Edd ;) Fact is that both cities in 2010 will have a stunnings skylines :cheers1: :D

[Gatis]

My quick construction:
This is 2/3 of skyline in our main planned highrise cluster - Kliversala-Kipsala highrise district. Red buildings should be ready until 2008 for sure, but I think that most of the other ones will be completed or halfway in 2010 too:
http://img32.exs.cx/img32/5895/render28lh.jpg

But this is not full picture. A little to the left there is Kliversala with 5 highrises to be built until 2011. I am pretty sure that it will have most buildings ready around 2010.

Here you do not see Skanstes Street - it will have cluster of four highrise buildings (none above 20 floors though) around 2008 and some more (most likely above 20 floors) some years later.
Here you do not see apartment+office building cluster in Imanta, which in 2010 will have 5 - 7 buildings over 20 floors and more than 10 new buildings over 12 floors.
And here you do not see other highrises, f.e. Jugla gates, Panorama Plaza etc. which should be ready until 2010.
Just my 5 cents, as some like to say. Riga has been slow up to now, but times have changed and "highrise lavine" is approaching.

[ch1le]

scared now Pablonis?

Gatis, GReat job, its scary, very scary :D What's the 200-300m scraper just left of Saules AkmenS?!

[Gatis]

It is 180 m, not 300 m :) I scaled it after Saules akmens and then decreased per some 15% due to the distance. But do not relay on this too much, I made it for you just to see, how dense it will be.

[Geex]

^^ Great job Gatis, i really hope all those highrises will be builded. Go Riga :)

[pablonis]

^^ :) not now Chi1le, but maybe i will, if i see all of them built (which i doubt) ;)

[Gatis]

@pablonis - should really ALL of them be built to impress you? Riga has the biggest deficite of office and apartment space among Baltic capitals - demand for new highrises here is bigger than in Tallinn or Vilnius.

[ch1le]

Gatis what is the Vacancy %?

[Geex]

@ch1le:

http://img132.exs.cx/img132/9801/untitled42uu.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Updated: 2004 spring :)

[Gatis]

We have only 2 A class office buildings here (Valdemara centrs and Saules akmens) - 20% there are free - but this is rather coincidence now, not lack of demand. In B class offices - vacancy % since the end of 2003 - 4 - 5%. Demand is very high.
This is according to Latio, January 2005.

Oberhaus (jan 2005) - demand for office space multiple times exceeds the offer.

Nira (Jan 2005) - the most profitable sector for developers in Riga now - offices.

[Edd]

Here is development program of NCC (I translated it and added some comments, sorry if I made some mistakes).
Press to see a full sized picture.
http://img206.exs.cx/img206/7056/untitled12sn.th.gif (http://img206.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img206&image=untitled12sn.gif)

[LatvianGG]

I see some of you refuse to think about the FUTURE skylines of all 5 cities in the poll. By saying "it's just Vilnius vs Tallinn again" perhaps people see just the present situation and not so much the future. As Gatis showed you, Riga has planned to build some impressive clusters, which, if realised for let's say 60-70%, already would put Riga's skyline AT LEAST next to Vilnius and Tallinn in 2010. I'm also curious about Klaipeda and Kaunas, fur sure some significant highrises will appear there until 2010. So guys, don't take it for a logic thing, that the skylines of Vilnius and Tallinn will rule the Baltic skies the same way they do now. I predict that in 2015 Riga will have the most impressive skyline of the Baltics, but in 2010 it will have quite similar numbers of new highrises.

[jimm]

^^^
Ok, i gave my vote for Riga as a best future skyline of Baltic States.

[Gatis]

Interesting to compare:

Vilnius NCC - 20 buildings with 12+ floors, 11 buildings with 20+ floors
Rigas Kliversala+Kipsala - 18-22 buildings with 12+ floors, 10 - 12 buildings with 20+ floors.

Amounts of highrises are pretty similar - one or two highrises here do not decide the impression. Quality of architecture will decide who will be better. Landscape - Vilnius has green hills to look on the highrises. Riga has the wide Daugava River in front where highrises will be mirrored. Seems, Riga will get huge vertical accent with that 150 - 180 m building. This giant will have unique design, but for several months I am hunting it and still without success.
We have interesting years ahead, I think.
Would be interesting to see comparison with Tallinn as well.

[ch1le]

I see some of you refuse to think about the FUTURE skylines of all 5 cities in the poll. By saying "it's just Vilnius vs Tallinn again" perhaps people see just the present situation and not so much the future. As Gatis showed you, Riga has planned to build some impressive clusters, which, if realised for let's say 60-70%, already would put Riga's skyline AT LEAST next to Vilnius and Tallinn in 2010. I'm also curious about Klaipeda and Kaunas, fur sure some significant highrises will appear there until 2010. So guys, don't take it for a logic thing, that the skylines of Vilnius and Tallinn will rule the Baltic skies the same way they do now. I predict that in 2015 Riga will have the most impressive skyline of the Baltics, but in 2010 it will have quite similar numbers of new highrises.

well, 2015 and 1010 is a long long time from now! If you compare Tallinn in 1999 and and today you can pretty obviously feel that 5 years is a very long time, things can change quite rapidly :)

[Moolio]

I am really surprised how easily some people vote for Tallinn (oh well, these were Finns and Estonians mostly :D). I am Lithuanian and I live in Vilnius but still most likely that I'm not going to vote for my city.

Okay, if we're not allowed to vote Tallinn (I still don't understand what's wrong with my opinion), then I guess I have to vote vilnius. Riga's plans are grand, but highly uncertain, or so I hear.

[ch1le]

Tallinn doesnt have a strict development plan as in Vilnius and Riga, its coming sometime this year, ill be happy to show it, there is room in Downtown cluster for 10-20 more highrises. On the coast at pirita its unlimited, but people are against high buildings there, well see :)

[Mantas]

Interesting to compare:

Vilnius NCC - 20 buildings with 12+ floors, 11 buildings with 20+ floors
Rigas Kliversala+Kipsala - 18-22 buildings with 12+ floors, 10 - 12 buildings with 20+ floors.

Amounts of highrises are pretty similar - one or two highrises here do not decide the impression. Quality of architecture will decide who will be better. Landscape - Vilnius has green hills to look on the highrises. Riga has the wide Daugava River in front where highrises will be mirrored. Seems, Riga will get huge vertical accent with that 150 - 180 m building. This giant will have unique design, but for several months I am hunting it and still without success.
We have interesting years ahead, I think.
Would be interesting to see comparison with Tallinn as well.
Don't you guys have any problems with UNESCO? They were scared when come to Vilnius recently, especially for the highrises in NCC which is some 800 m from the oldtown. AFAIK Riga's is only 400 m, so what's the situation? :)

[ch1le]

Viru hotel is something like 200m from old town, i havent seen anyone mumble about it ;) although yea, most of the scrapers are a bit further away now :)

[sander]

Oh, i didn`t look thread title carefully. But how to understand what means "the best". Design, quantity, quality? ... I try to not be biased ;) , but atm I think that Tallinn has best skyline. It has the "downtown feeling" while in Vilnius NCC seems to be separated. I`m not sure if Riga is going to lead Tallinn and Vilnius. It takes some time for Riga to catch up. Because same time Tallinn and Vilnius are building new skyscrapers.

But anyway it`s great that all three capitals are building new skyscrapers.

Whatever. I`m going to eat now...:eat:

[Gatis]

I think, UNESCO and Riga highrise conflict is over since last summer. Riga rised it itself, not waiting for UNESCO official to come here - it continued here for several months. (I was wondering why Vilnius did not have this issue before - highrises are virtually part of historical skyline there). Saules akmens will remain the nearest of highrises to UNESCO monument - only 800 m. They are visually divided by Daugava river and they are not in one viewpoint. It is extremely hard to find viewpoint where both are seen. f.e. on Dole island some 15 km from centre you can find such viewpoint. I do not know any other viewpoint.
At the end UNESCO said something like: "Its no good to build highrises... but if you like so do it...". One more problem could arise if that 180 m highrise gets constructed - it for sure would be visible from many places in Centre.

[Gatis]

And lets talk once more after 5 years ;) Do not forget that demand drives the construction.

[ZuluKingOfTheDwarfPeople]

I voted Tallinn...

[Obstacle]

Some of you mix the visual aspect with the number of skyscrapers. If you have 100 scrapers with 100m disparity from each other, then you know it will look hideous. I believe, looking at the projects and maps, that in 2010 Tallinn will have visually the best skyline. And also the most interesting as well. Because we have this road going through the center what is outlined by scrapers. It's really a view!

[pablonis]

^ dream on ;)

[ch1le]

why dream Pablonis?

[pablonis]

dont take it seriously, it was only a joke ;) , how can i know what will happen in 10 years