Casinos for Hong Kong?

[hkskyline]

Jockey Club pitches for role in casino
Teddy Ng, Hong Kong Standard
February 21, 2005

Macau's rapidly developing casino industry is taking between HK$10 billion and HK$15 billion in gambling dollars out of Hong Kong every year, Jockey Club chairman Ronald Arculli said Sunday.

This represents a serious threat to the Jockey Club's financial fortunes and could result in a loss of revenue for the government, he told Radio Television Hong Kong in an interview.

Arculli also said that should the government agree to establish a tourist-only casino on Lantau, the Jockey Club should be allowed to run it to ensure that the gaming dollars and the profits remained in Hong Kong.

Arculli's claim was disputed by Deputy Secretary for Home Affairs Stephen Fisher, who said the drop in the club's turnover is not linked to Macau developments and that the decrease in racing revenue is being compensated by football betting income.

Arculli said he was delighted when the betting turnover for the Lunar New Year race meeting on February 11 reached HK$1.043 billion, the highest single-day turnover for the current season and HK$20 million up on last year's Lunar New Year take.

Attendance was also up from 74,322 last year to 76,030.

However, Arculli said the club's consultants had warned that, with Macau's gambling industry mushrooming, the turnover in Hong Kong could drop between HK$10 billion and HK$15 billion a year.

This was despite the recent cross-betting arrangement that allowed punters in the former Portuguese enclave to bet on Hong Kong races through Macau betting outlets.

Current figures indicate this to be around HK$20 million a meeting.

Arculli said that should the predicted drain of gambling dollars come about, the turnover from horse racing for the current season could drop between
10 percent and 20 percent over last year's total of HK$65 billion.

Macau had earlier estimated that the net profit from its gambling industry could reach US$5 billion (HK$39 billion) a year.

"Some other places are also establishing casinos and developing their gambling industries," Arculli said. "Some of them are also decreasing their betting tax."

"We have been passing on this information to the government during discussions on our call for a change in the way horse racing is taxed."

Arculli said tycoons in Macau have been stepping up their efforts to attract gamblers from Hong Kong.

And at least nine cruise ships catering to gamblers leave Hong Kong shores each day.

Arculli said that in an attempt to offset this drain on gaming dollars, the club would cooperate with travel agencies and Hong Kong Tourism Board to attract more mainland visitors to its two racecourses.

The club's annual turnover for horse racing peaked at HK$92.3 billion in 1997.

There were small but steady declines for the next two years before a slight rise in 2000-2001 when the club increased the number of race meetings a year from 75 to 78. It has been downhill since then, reaching HK$65 billion at the end of the last racing season in June.

Arculli said the club's discussions with the government on its proposal to change the way racing is taxed were making only "a little progress."

The government currently takes 12 percent off standard win, place and quinella bets and 20 percent on exotic and multiple bets.

The Jockey Club wants the government to switch from a tax on bets to a tax on gross profits, as is now the case with football betting.

Arculli said that in addition to trying to convince the government, the club feared that lawmakers did not fully realize the importance of reforming the betting tax system.

He said it is not pushing for a change in the system to increase betting revenue but to help the government secure a stable income in addition to enabling the club to donate HK$1 billion each year to charity.

According to sources, one of the reasons why negotiations with the government are dragging is because Financial Secretary Henry Tang does not want to become personally involved.

Tang is a long-time member of the club as well as a horse owner and fears he could be accused of a conflict of interest should the club be seen to be getting special privileges.

Arculli said he personally feels that a casino on Lantau is not a good way to raise additional revenue for the government.

However, since it could help attract tourists and develop Hong Kong's financial market, the Jockey Club should be granted rights to operate it.

"We are a non-profit making organization. This ensures that profits generated from the casino will go to the government and to charity organizations," he said.

Fisher rejected Arculli's claim that the decrease in betting turnover was caused by Macau's gambling industry.

He said the drop in turnover was due to the fact that youngsters were not interested in horse racing.

He also believed that income from football betting could offset the loss in horse racing.

[hkskyline]

Skills odds favour club on casino
Matthew Lee, Hong Kong Standard
February 22, 2005

The Jockey Club may not yet have a concrete plan for running a casino in Hong Kong but it would be able to assemble an expert management team should there be a decision to build one, a source close to the industry said Monday.

Jockey Club chairman Ronald Arculli said Sunday that should the government agree to establish a tourist-only casino on Lantau, the club should be allowed to run it to ensure that the gaming dollars and profits remained in Hong Kong.

"That is the same tactic the club applied when lobbying the government for the legalization of football gambling," the source said. "The club does not have a concrete plan as yet. But it is the most appropriate candidate as it has the resources to bring in experts from around the world, to help make the casino competitive against those in Macau.

"In addition, since the club is a non-profit-making organization, money it gets from running the casino will filter down to various charities after deducting the government's share."

Financial Secretary Henry Tang said in December the government is carefully studying a Liberal Party suggestion to build a casino on Lantau Island, home to the soon-to-open Disneyland, a proposed logistics park and a dizzying number of other proposals still on the drawing board for the largely undeveloped green haven.

Liberal Party chairman James Tien put forward the suggestion during a Legco finance panel meeting both as a means to raise government revenue and to attract more tourists.

The casino would be for tourists only, which means Hong Kong residents would not be allowed access.

Jockey Club spokesman Wilson Cheng declined to say if any casino plan had been drafted.

Tang's press secretary, Laurie Lo, said a casino is not on the government's agenda and he is not aware of any submission by the club regarding a casino.

Lo also declined to reveal the content of discussions between the club and the government on changes to gambling taxation.

"In the past, different organizations and departments such as the Jockey Club and the Treasury Bureau have had discussions with the government on gambling taxes," Lo said.

"But it is not appropriate to reveal what is being discussed until a conclusion has been arrived at."

Arculli said the casino industry in Macau is siphoning off between HK$10 and HK$15 billion in gaming dollars each year and that unless there is a change in the way horse racing is taxed, the club could not raise more revenue for the government and for charity.

Arculli claimed the club is not pushing for a change in order to increase its revenue but rather to help the government secure a stable income.

The government, on the other hand, contends that the decrease in horse racing turnover is not caused by Macau's gambling industry, and that the income from football betting can offset the reduced take from horse racing.

[Koi]

Please no casino in HK. Why not just take a short ride on the ferry to Macao.

[hkskyline]

Interesting that Macau's casinos bar locals from gambling while the Hong Kong proposal also bars locals from gambling as well. Both cities are trying to cash in on China's gambling crowd.

[Syd-Hk]

they will also have to change the law in HK, it's illegal to gamble i think

[VAN-TO]

If they build it, it better be somewhere off in a faraway island or maybe somewhere near Lok Ma Chau/Lo Wu.

[hkskyline]

Call for casinos in HK as Macau lures mainlanders
6 November 2006
South China Morning Post

Calls for Hong Kong to open casinos have followed monthly figures for mainland tourists visiting Macau under the individual traveller scheme nosing ahead of Hong Kong in September for the first time since the scheme was introduced in 2003.

A total of 427,097 mainland solo travellers visited Macau in September, compared with 427,026 to Hong Kong, according to statistics from the two governments.

Overall, mainland visitors travelling to the former Portuguese enclave totalled 917,383 in September, marking a year on year increase of 15 per cent.

The number is close to Hong Kong's 930,532 for the same month, which represents a 0.6 per cent growth on last year.

Throughout last year, 5.3 million people visited Macau under the individual traveller scheme, compared with 5.5 million in Hong Kong.

Andy Wu Keng-kuong , president of the Travel Industry Council of Macau, said the city's new casinos had sparked the surge in solo travellers.

"Macau's new gaming venues have attracted droves of individual travellers, especially from Guangdong province," Mr Wu said.

Joseph Tung Yao-chung , executive director of Travel Industry Council of Hong Kong, said Hong Kong's new attractions had been no match for Macau's casinos in the eyes of mainland tourists.

"I believe the newly opened casinos in Macau have contributed to the influx of mainland individual tourists," Mr Tung said. "Although Hong Kong has launched new scenic spots like the Ngong Ping 360, their attractiveness [to mainland travellers] still can't compete with the casinos."

He called on Hong Kong authorities to consider legalising gambling. Howard Young, a Hong Kong lawmaker representing the tourism sector, suggested Hong Kong develop casinos exclusive to tourists.

"We may consider having casinos that are restrictive, say, high-end casinos only for tourists," he said, "We don't want to compete with Macau head-to-head, but Hong Kong needs to have some gambling facilities."

While mainlanders travelling in tour groups said they had a pleasant trip in Hong Kong before continuing to Macau, some complained that shopping activities were more or less compulsory.

[van_gogh]

This is not the first time that James Tian proposes having casinos as a mean of boosting the economy. Can he and his party be more creative and come up with better ways of developing the economy of HK? Oh... not to mention that he urged the government to ask Shenzhen and mainland China to not to compete so fiercely with Hong Kong... and passing a bill that allows mini-bus drivers to run red lights.

Can someone replace this douche bag?

[hkia]

Let's legalize drugs, prostitution while we are at it.

[WANCH]

No we're not gonna have any of these casinos in HK. HKers are better off taking the jetfoil :)

[hkth]

Have you think about what would be our tax to our Gov't? Open up the gambling in HK and get rid of the GST!!!

[EricIsHim]

If the casino can manage to allow only toursit to gamble, like South Korea, then I think this would be good. If it is opened to everyone, NO!!!!!

[spicytimothy]

Let's legalize drugs, prostitution while we are at it.

Drugs I'm not sure, but there are actually a lot of positive effects to legalizing prostituion and I'm not kidding here. But it's not the point of this thread...

I DO think that casinos can help bring in profits to the gov't coffers but the social costs might be too high...

more importantly, Macau is doing such a great job with their casino developments, HK can NEVER match up to them. For one thing it's hard to attract biggies like MGM to invest in HK again if they've already invested so much so close-by. If HK really were to build casinos I have a feeling that we're just gonna end up with one of two crappy ones on a remote part of Lantau and they'll call it Casino Park or Casino Port or sth...

I think South Korea's got the right idea... build one thaz open to tourists only... I mean, aren't we building a skymall n e ways? Can't we build a casino next to the golf course and the mall?

[hkskyline]

Legislators unwilling to gamble on casino proposal
23 November 2006
South China Morning Post

The Liberal Party yesterday suffered a blow to its plan to broaden the tax base through revenue from gambling when lawmakers from all other parties voted against a motion to look at the feasibility of opening a casino in Hong Kong.

Secretary for Home Affairs Patrick Ho Chi-ping told the Legislative Council it was not necessary for the government to study the feasibility of the idea when its standpoint was to reject casinos outright.

The non-binding motion moved by Liberal Party chairman James Tien Pei-chun stemmed from the party's proposal two years ago to build a casino, which it argued would create jobs and increase the government's revenue from gaming tax, on Lantau.

Dr Ho, however, said opening casinos was no solution to a narrow tax base. He also said gambling should not be considered only in an economic context.

"As a responsible government, we need to try to prevent the growth of gambling culture," he said. "We oppose any plans to set up casinos in Hong Kong, and we have no plan to allow anyone to open a casino."

Mr Tien said the tax revenues from a casino in Hong Kong would be enormous, judging from Macau's experience.

He said 49 per cent of 2,500 people his party surveyed supported building a casino resort on Lantau.

Nevertheless, the motion met strong opposition, with lawmakers saying a casino in Hong Kong would worsen social problems brought by problem gambling.

Labour sector lawmaker Wong Kwok-hing said a casino was unnecessary and not an answer to the development of Lantau, while maverick legislator "Long Hair" Leung Kwok-hung said none of the developed countries in the world depended on gaming taxes and revenues from casinos to support their economies.

Democrat Sin Chung-kai suggested the government look at ways of strengthening co-operation on tourism with Macau rather than following the former Portuguese enclave in opening casinos.

[rt_0891]

Other than the airport or perhaps by Lo Wu, I don't see how a casino could fit into HK without causing social unease.

[hkth]

How about the current restricted area between HK and SZ? There would have enough space to expand the casinos.

[_00_deathscar]

What skymall?

[Rachmaninov]

against casinos here

[hkskyline]

Official: Hong Kong won't build casinos to compete with Macau
15 September 2007

HONG KONG (AP) - Hong Kong will not build casinos to compete with its booming neighbor Macau, which recently surpassed the Las Vegas Strip in gambling revenue, an official said.

The remarks came as Singapore also is opening up to casinos. The city-state dropped a ban on casino gambling in 2005.

Speaking to reporters after a banquet held by the hotel industry late Friday, Hong Kong Secretary for Commerce and Economic Development Frederick Ma acknowledged the fast casino growth in Macau posed a challenge to Hong Kong.

"It's definitely somewhat of a challenge to the tourism industry," he told reporters in remarks released in a transcript seen Saturday.

But Ma added the Hong Kong government would not consider building casinos to compete with Macau.

"The government doesn't think it would help the tourism industry if Hong Kong built one or two casinos because Macau has many casinos like Las Vegas," he said.

Ma also said that not considering casinos was a "matter of principle," but did not elaborate.

Hong Kong's pro-government and pro-business Liberal Party proposed opening up to casinos several years ago, but then-Financial Secretary Henry Tang said in late 2004 the government was not convinced of the benefit.

Tang acknowledged casinos would bring some economic gain, but said they could also lead to social ills, noting that locals had mixed views on the proposal.

Hong Kong currently allows only three forms of gambling -- on horse races, soccer matches and a numbers game.

In 2003, when the government legalized soccer gambling, critics complained it would lure youngsters into betting on the hugely popular sport.

Ma said Hong Kong will build more convention space -- conventions are a major target of the recently opened Venetian Macao casino resort -- invest in cruise ship terminals and expanding Ocean Park, Hong Kong's leading local theme park.

Macau has enjoyed strong economic growth since ending a casino monopoly in 2002 and letting in Las Vegas operators like Steve Wynn and Sheldon Adelson.

Wynn has built the Wynn Macau while Adelson's Las Vegas Sands Corp. built the Sands Macao, and last month opened the massive Venetian Macao, which claims to be Asia's largest building housing the world's largest casino floor.

Adelson hopes to transform the reclaimed Cotai strip, which links two outlying islands in Macau, into a concentrated casino resort area.

Macau beat the Las Vegas Strip last year as the world's gambling center. The city raked in $6.95 billion in gambling revenue, while the Strip made $6.69 billion, regulators in both cities said.

Meanwhile, in Singapore, Adelson is building a $4 billion casino resort scheduled to open in 2009. A second casino license was awarded to Genting International PLC, whose resort is expected to be ready in 2010.

[gladisimo]

Seeing Macao's boom makes me feel like HK could cash in on this as well, plus HK has much more alluring tourist attractions to attract the gamblers.

But I can see the problems with the types of people that might come.

Honestly I have mixed feelings about it. Hong Kong could stand to gain a lot, but also lose a lot.

[sfgadv02]

If HK does build a casino, there isn't much famous casinos that isn't already built in Macau [i.e. Wynn, Venetian, MGM].

[ggaaxx]

Interesting that Macau's casinos bar locals from gambling while the Hong Kong proposal also bars locals from gambling as well. Both cities are trying to cash in on China's gambling crowd.

How do the casinos know we are local or not, do we have to show passport to get in?:?

[hkskyline]

How do the casinos know we are local or not, do we have to show passport to get in?:?

They can enforce ID checks. For example, Hong Kongers carry a different ID from local Macanese.

[EricIsHim]

In South Korea, tourists need to show their passports in order to get in the casinos.

So by doing that, Macao people can gamble in HK, and HKers can gamble in Macao. Who benefits? The ferry service. Just a joke.

[hkskyline]

HK's Tsang rejects building casinos, to help Macau

HONG KONG, Oct 11 (Reuters) - Hong Kong won't build casinos to compete with neighbouring Macau, despite the challenge posed by the gambling mecca's rapid transformation into a tourism and convention hub, Hong Kong's leader said on Thursday.

"The answer is no," said Chief Executive Donald Tsang when asked whether the city might construct its own casinos after a major push by some tourism operators and the pro-business Liberal party to build a casino resort.

Macau's slew of new casinos, including the world's largest -- "The Venetian", which opened in August -- have drawn tourists away from Hong Kong. The former Portuguese enclave's gaming revenues hit US$7 billion in 2006, leapfrogging the Las Vegas strip.

Macau has also begun to eat away at Hong Kong's convention and exhibition business, which it has long dominated.

Macau's "Venetian" casino resort brought 1.2 million square feet (110,000 square metres) of new convention space to the market -- almost twice the space of Hong Kong's flagship convention centre.

But Tsang said Hong Kong wouldn't follow Macau's lead, partly to avoid cutting off its neighbour's economic lifeblood.

"With our managerial skill and administrative ability, I think we can easily set these (casinos) things up, but it would certainly be to the detriment of Macau's development," Tsang told a group of foreign reporters.

"I don't believe we should engender stiff ... competition between the two," he said of Hong Kong and Macau.

Singapore, meanwhile, has ploughed ahead with plans for two multi-billion-dollar casinos, including one on Sentosa island.

[hyacinthus]

hmmm... well, who knows if HK also build casinos, there'll be more tourists / gamblers given the number of casinos. Casino-hopping tour.

btw, Singapore's focus is integrated resorts not just casinos. :)

[EricIsHim]

my question is where is the closest casino from singapore?

macau is only 45 minutes jet ferry ride from HK; 30 min from HKIA area.

singapore is building one, doesn't mean we need to build one to be competitive.

[hkskyline]

Genting?

Casinos will add to the types of destinations in the Pearl River Delta. We must think from a regional perspective. Travellers from afar going to Macau for gambling may fly into Hong Kong, spend a day or two here, then head over to Macau to lose money. The regional effects are there. It's one more reason for travellers to visit Macau and Hong Kong. For mainlanders, they may want to stop by Macau while they're in Hong Kong.

[WANCH]

If there's even a single casino in HK, I would still go to Macao to gamble.

[hkskyline]

If there's even a single casino in HK, I would still go to Macao to gamble.

From all the information available and cues from the government, no casinos will be built in Hong Kong. The local gambling scene will still be horse-racing, lottery, and to some extent, football. All these don't have any real neighboring competitors.

So everyone's happy.

[_00_deathscar]

We need bookmakers that's what we need.

[WANCH]

From all the information available and cues from the government, no casinos will be built in Hong Kong. The local gambling scene will still be horse-racing, lottery, and to some extent, football. All these don't have any real neighboring competitors.

So everyone's happy.

Don't forget the Mahjong clubs

[hkskyline]

Don't forget the Mahjong clubs

Wrong. Mahjong parlours are not owned by the Jockey Club or the government, and are not obliged to provide royalties to the government. They're privately-owned, and are often a haven for criminal activities. The government has no say on whether a mahjong parlour can open besides zoning and licensing restrictions, just like virtually any other business.

[WANCH]

Wrong. Mahjong parlours are not owned by the Jockey Club or the government, and are not obliged to provide royalties to the government. They're privately-owned, and are often a haven for criminal activities. The government has no say on whether a mahjong parlour can open besides zoning and licensing restrictions, just like virtually any other business.

Don't the triads own most of them :D

[hkskyline]

Don't the triads own most of them :D

I don't think the mom and pop shop would be a "haven for criminal activities", would it? Quite obvious who runs these places.

[_00_deathscar]

I don't think the mom and pop shop would be a "haven for criminal activities", would it?

It would if mom and pop are triads!

[hkskyline]

It would if mom and pop are triads!

There actually aren't that many lady triad bosses out there. :)

[_00_deathscar]

There actually aren't that many lady triad bosses out there. :)

I meant the boss' wife (or mistress) :D Being affiliated to a triad makes her a triad.

[hkskyline]

I meant the boss' wife (or mistress) :D Being affiliated to a triad makes her a triad.

Yes .. as if the mistress who is barely past the age of consent would be running an illegal operation out of some shop. Perhaps she should be dropped off at Elements to do some shopping instead.

[_00_deathscar]

So that's why there's so many teenagers at Elements then...