Yeah downtown is pretty clean, just wish there would be less homeless people and panhandlers down there during the day.

Oh, it can't be that bad. Probably just like all typical American cities. The homeless is a LOT WORSE and CRAZIER north of the border in Toronto. I saw an old "homeless" lady swing her purse around on television assaulting a cameraman! It's really BAD in Toronto.

I guess it is people like me who try and keep North America's streets cleaner everyday. It's one of the few things I live for. :)

^ you are right that it probably isn't any worse than any other American city...but I don't think that should be Buffalo's stance to fall back on. We should strive to be better than the average American city, which everyone knows we are as a whole. And just because every city in America has this problem doesn't make it less annoying when some guy with 3 teeth and smells like cigarettes/alcohol asks me for some change then gets pissed when I tell him that I don't have any change because I use my debit card for everything.

^^ There was a guy downtown yesterday throwing pennies at people.

To put a positive spin on that: "Because of our low cost of living, Buffalo's homeless can actually afford to throw money away!"

wow u are so right...even the homeless people are rich here

since this is not about skylines anymore I thought i would drop in this movie that I found over on Cyburbia. I depicts typical Buffalo street people.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1989347335404685226&q=Buffalo%22

I've gotta go with Rochester, although I love all those cities. Rochester is nice because of its greenery, you see agood sized city surrounded by trees it is very picturesque, or cool whatever

I'm not saying we have the best skyline or anything - I think I'd have to concede that to Buffalo - but I must stand up for my hometown of Albany since pretty much nobody has said anything good about it at all. Just understand there's a difference between the City of Albany and the State Capitol of New York. Correct, we wouldn't have a skyline if it weren't for the Empire State Plaza and the A.E. Smith Tower, but if you look at an aerial shot, you can see how divorced they are from the true downtown - by location and scale. But everything negative said about Albany (especially BuffCity who sure has some vitriol..) is because of politicians, not the city. Remember, the Empire State Plaza is something its residents did NOT want, and it is very much a large ugly scar on our landscape/skyline. The real downtown is pretty compact, and it doesn't have any of the industrial Mid-West feel to it of Buffalo (it's much more European [Dutch to be exact] with narrow bending streets), but it also has very few parking lots to break up the street wall. And I'd say it is quite clean, perhaps even too sterile for my tastes.

That being said, our collection of private towers is, um, shall we say modest. The tallest is 22 stories, but most average around 12-14 - along the lines of Syracuse, but considering our city is built on a hill versus being surrounded by them I believe we'd win in the picturesqueness debate. However, we can lay claim to having a new 12-story office building and a 10-story Hampton Inn opening this year, although the hotel is a stucco-clad piece of shit that is more home in the suburbs than the city. Plus, our restaurant/bar scene has exploded a la Buffalo, although we're not as far down the line as far as downtown residential construction is concerned.

Enough talking, here's some pics-
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1670/dscf00105ws.jpg

Close-up
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4373/dscf00154vo.jpg

Looing down State St, our "grand avenue"
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3163/dscf00509eh.jpg

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9453/dscf00993iy.jpg

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9839/dscf00820sg.jpg

These few were taken at 10am on a Saturday morning, so please excuse the utter lack of life
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/5950/dscf00433ga.jpg

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9034/dscf00330cp.jpg

this picture especially well shows off how clean things feel
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9933/dscf00322wv.jpg

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2450/dscf002813rr.jpg

And lastly, I think this is representative of what the government is to the city - dominant and uncaring. That's one of the towers to the Capitol in the center. Even the gov't has gotten too big for itself!
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1518/dscf00655wf.jpg


Hopefully Albany will get a teeny weeny bit more respect now.....


Now on with Buffalo vs. Rochester!

^^ Yeah, that sometimes seems to get lost. I don't have a problem with the city itself, as I've said before, "a city hijacked".

KZN, Thanks for the cool pics of Albany. If you review this thread, and others, I think you will find that I have said many good things about Albany. My sister used to live on Dove Street, near State Street, and I have always found Albany to be very charming. Lark Street is very much like Buffalo's Allen Street, and the surrounding neighborhood reminds me a lot of Allentown in Buffalo, right down to the gay bars. The only thing I have to disagree with you on is Empire Plaza. I love that thing. It's cool when you pick up your friends at the bus station, or the Amtrak Station across the Hudson River in Renssalaer (or however you spell it) and drive up the expressway, underneath it. The egg is awesome, and I like the retro modern feel of the plaza, and particularly its juxtaposition with the "old capital." Albany is a beautiful, and very under rated city. (Though I still prefer my own hometown, Buffalo.)

Can't deny the fact that most of Albany is quite beautiful. It is true that it's the government officials, which make up a very small number of the residents of the area, are the ones who are screwing over the rest of the state, and not the residents of Albany themselves.

NYC007, yeah I remembered someONE saying a few nice things about Albany (that's why I said "pretty much nobody"), but I did read all 13 pages of this thread before posting to make sure, and as such I didn't totally digest every single post. Lark Street is great; I did most of my Christmas shopping there last year and was very pleased with what I was able to find, and the neighborhood is an ideal piece of city fabric.

The Empire State Plaza, while I don't hate (I was speaking more for the region as a general consensus), I do find its aesthetic contributions rather awe inspiring in all the wrong ways, yet at least it inspires something (more than can be said of most po-mo "contextual" crap built in recent years). However, there was an entire neighborhood the size of Center Square (the neighborhood containing Lark Street) alive and kicking that was wiped out for that thing, which definitely is not a creator of street life. So I stand by my comments about it being a scar, although "ugly" I might replace with, umm, "dubious." The one big thing going for it though, is the impression it forms on those seeing it for the first time - you are really mezmerized. But by this point, I don't even notice the egg is there anymore. I usually do my best to keep my eyes off the marble monstrosity.

^ Ha ha. You said, "monstrosity."

I don't blame you. I'm sure that if you see Empire Plaza every day, you have a different perspective than most of us. All I know, is I will always remember seeing it for the first time, as you said, when I was a little kid. And it did leave an impression on me. Hey, I guess it's cool to agree to disagree. But I have spent lots of time walking around on that marble monstrosity, and I find it very tranquil. I do agree that it's a shame they wiped out a vibrant neighborhood for it. But I suspect if the neighborhoods that still surround it were able to make a comback, then the residents would use the plaza like a park--a good place to walk your dog, sit and read a book, or just chill. My sister and I used to rollerblade around there, and the view from the plaza of the river valley and the lower part of the city is pretty awesome, IMO. If Albany could do what Buffalo is doing, building lofts and apartments in the previously uninhabited downtown area, then I suspect that Empire Plaza could be a more integrated attribute of the downtown area. It might take some creativity, but I think that it could be more connected to the residential corridor somehow. However, I think that Pepsi Arena was a worse mistake. That thing is just a refrigerator box in the middle of the city.

Albany would have looked so much nicer if they never built Empire State Plaza, they shoulda just built some very nice midrises for all the millions of state jobs, leaving the skyline dominated by the state office buildings and the capitol.

My opinion.

Albany seems to have a "japanese" density feel, esspecially the picture with the narrow brick roads. I like it.

Albany also has an absolutely beautiful surrounding, with Adirondack mountains, I believe, makes the city look beautiful in the fall especially. :)

One thing Albany never does is run on history. The city is as old as Boston and NYC (Manhattan) and has some very old and classic gems within, I think it was known as Fort Orange during the Dutch settled New Amsterdam stretched from Manhattan to Fort Orange, I think it was a trading post. Either way, these small brick streets, small shops and very New England feel should be preserved and promoted instead of ignored.

Well... you can see Toronto from upstate newyork. LOL, jkz

ok? whats yer point?

Can you tell me where you took the photo of Buffalo? I'm looking to photograph Buffalo's skyline this weekend.

Thank you, Gail

Can you tell me where you took the photo of Buffalo? I'm looking to photograph Buffalo's skyline this weekend.

Thank you, Gail

the first picture on the first page is from the canadian side of the niagara. a good place to take a picture is at a park bench that faces the skyline directly across the river from city hall. the park bench is right on the river, and across the street from old fort erie.

ok? whats yer point?

I think hes sayin he would vote Toronto if it were in upstate....no?

Best skyline? hm, definitely not Buffalo. nor Syracuse. Maybe Albany or Rochester. ill flip a coin.

you can see TO from upstate NY if you're in a plane. i saw it when i was flying into SYR when i was over the finger lakes.

http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~tjm/WNY-NASA.jpg

anyway, boonville has the best skyline. handsdown.

you can see TO from upstate NY if you're in a plane. i saw it when i was flying into SYR when i was over the finger lakes.

http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~tjm/WNY-NASA.jpg

anyway, boonville has the best skyline. handsdown.

uncle richard said it best: DUBYA OH DUBYA WWWWWWOW

you mustve been up more than 50,000 feet. no way is that any lower.

ill go with stittville.

doesnt that just sound like the dirtiest place in the world?

Steel- that photo from City Hall is realyl cool. I forget how nice that city is. And it is even nicer when you face up Elmwood and Delaware. I see a photo like that and I strat thinking I want to leave SF where I'd have to pay 1.2 milllion (or more) for a victorian that I could get in Buffalo for 90k. And the Victorians in Buffalo are as nice as San Francisco, though not as numerous.

^ that's why I came back from Huntington Beach...cheapest houses there are 400-500k...which are miles inland from the beach and are 700-800 square foot one story houses. Anything closer to the beach and more sq. ft. are over 1 million.

Steel- that photo from City Hall is realyl cool. I forget how nice that city is. And it is even nicer when you face up Elmwood and Delaware. I see a photo like that and I strat thinking I want to leave SF where I'd have to pay 1.2 milllion (or more) for a victorian that I could get in Buffalo for 90k. And the Victorians in Buffalo are as nice as San Francisco, though not as numerous.

Get the big city excitment out of you system and then move back to Buffalo to live the good life. Buff may not have the famous Vics that SF has but I would not be surprised if Buffalo does not have more of them since Buff was the bigger city back in the day.

You might not get much for you 90K anymore. The Elmwood district is appreciating nicely these days. But still for a coll mil you can buy the biggest friggin mansion in the city.

This wins.

http://home.comcast.net/~justinmarkvii/birmingham1.jpg

:D

^ hey hey hey...is that Birmingham? That isn't in upstate NY. Take those modern cool looking scrapers back to Alabama.

aww :(

^ hey hey hey...is that Birmingham? That isn't in upstate NY. Take those modern cool looking scrapers back to Alabama.

I saw that, and then for a second thought you said "Binghamton" until I did a double-take. Besides I didn't think any city in NYS had a BellSouth tower!

And it's not horribly better looking that what we got. Actually I think it compares pretty favorably to Rochester, maybe just a little taller looking.

^ yeah ik...actually minus the HSBC building...Birmingham is almost identical in height to B-lo. I just like a couple of their modern buildings. I crave for the day we get a new modern looking building. yeah we have nice 1930s architecture blah blah blah...but to the untrained eye we have a decaying old disgusting skyline. I wanna see a couple sweet new towers built, just to give a little boost to morale and make our city look like it is finally to the 1980s.

Agreed. That's what I like (and miss) about Birmingham... There's a fantastic blend of both old and new (except our old towers are all being converted to residential use and we actually have new proposals ;))

FYI, here are the cities 10 tallest:

Birmingham:

Regions Bank Center: 645 feet, 42 stories (proposed)
Wachovia Tower: 454 feet, 35 floors
Amsouth-Harbert Tower: 437 feet, 32 floors
Amsouth-Sonat Tower: 400 feet, 30 floors
Bellsouth Center: 390 feet, 30 floors
Westin Birmingham: 354 feet, 28 floors (approved)
City Federal: 338 feet, 27 floors
Alabama Power: 322 feet, 20 floors
Cabana Hotel: 305 feet, 20 floors
Tied: Daniel Building: 287 feet, 20 floors; John Hand Building: 287 feet, 21 floors

*(also proposed is a 27 story residential tower, but details have just surfaced about it so height and rendering is unknown at this time...)

Buffalo:

One HSBC Center: 529 feet, 38 floors
Buffalo City Hall: 378 feet, 26 floors
Main Place Tower: 351 feet, 26 floors
Rand Building: 351 feet, 26 floors
Liberty Building: 333 feet, 23 floors
One M&T: 318 feet, 21 floors
Electric Tower: 295 feet, 13 floors
Central Terminal: 271 feet, 20 floors
10 LaFayette Square: 263 feet, 23 floors
Verizon/AT&T Builing: 258 feet, 16 floors

Albany's downtown look like a Cingular commercial...more bars than any other provider. LOL
Rochester's downtown is the most aesthetic of the skyline's, Buffalo does a better job lighting theirs up at night though.
Syracuse, what skyline?

Albany's downtown look like a Cingular commercial...more bars than any other provider. LOL

Haha, THAT'S what the empire state plaza looks like...thanks!


Rochester's downtown is the most aesthetic of the skyline's


Let me illustrate that point..

http://www.visitrochester.com/Images/General/HomeCenter.jpg
Source: www.VisitRochester.com

http://www.urbanohio.com/OhioSkylinesPics/OtherStates/NewYork/Rochester/RochesterNY16.jpg
http://www.urbanohio.com/OhioSkylinesPics/OtherStates/NewYork/Rochester/RochesterNY10.jpg
Source: http://www.urbanohio.com/Rochester.htm

ANSI-Standard Daytime shot, from the Ford St Bridge:
http://www.campusdeliveryassociates.com/images/skyline_day2.jpg

Dusk, from my roof in Corn Hill:
http://www.campusdeliveryassociates.com/images/skyline_night2.jpg

Night, from my roof, during Christmas season. Notice the construction of the new bridge on the lower right:
http://www.campusdeliveryassociates.com/images/skyline_black.jpg

These pictures were taken with my Kodak Easyshare (not sure which model) digital camera.

The following picture, from UrbanOhio.com, illustrates the base of the JPMorgan Chase building. I love how it fans out:

http://www.urbanohio.com/OhioSkylinesPics/OtherStates/NewYork/Rochester/RochesterNY2.jpg

As I've said before I prefer Buffalo's over Rochester's based on magnitude (I'll admit bias, plus I think HSBC is ugly).

I also agree with the night lighting, in fact I think Buffalo's is pretty impressive at night for such a small skyline. If only the Rand were still lit up...

But Rochester's definitely has the cleanest lines, probably one of the most clear cut (yet not boring) skyline of just about any city I can think of. Xerox just needs to be repainted or something. It looks almost bombed-out from certain angles.

As for the Cingular bars, I never thought of Albany that way. Of course four of the bars are all the same height, and the high one is in the wrong place. But that represents NYS dysfunctionality nicely. Plus I'm sure you could get an angle shot from the ground that makes the towers look ascending...

the bottom of the Chase tower in DT Rochester has always creeped me out, it makes it look like the building is collapsing. It's kind of cool though

^ I love the bottom of the Chase Building...its a cool feature.

my vote is for buffalo.

i do reallly like the street density in albany and the building walls on the small alleys.

someone had been bitching about the homeless in b-lo.
visit portland, oregon.
i don't care where you are from or have been, you have never seen a homeless community like this.

Binghamton has a population of a little less than 50,000, so you're not going to be overly impressed with its skyline. The overall architecture otherwise is very good, though.

http://www.clarks.150m.com/Binghamton_skyline1.jpg

yea its decent, city has a nice layout. Bing is def one of the better cities in NY. :)

I prefer Elmira.

Lackawanna has the wind turbines now. That is pretty cool.

More impressive than anything in its skyline, IMO, is Binghamton's geographical situation. Like a mini-Pittsburgh.

or a mega-Johnstown, PA

And then, of course, the city that gets no respect, Utica !

http://www.clarks.150m.com/utica_skyline_1.jpg

just looking at that picture makes me want to drink.

I voted for Rochester. HSBC just throws Buffalo's entire skyline out of balance.

JMancuso...

I hope you meant you wanted a drink of Utica Club beer....

:cheers:

nothing beats a case of UC when you're hankering for a cheap buzz. :yes: since it is utica, there's not much else to do but if you got a few extra bucks, you can get a case of saranac.

buffalo's skyline is definitely a cut above the rest.

Plus in Buffalo you get two for one.

Picture via Buffcity

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8679/untitled2wk8.jpg

Too bad Lake Ontario wasn't a bit narrower - you'd have a 3 fer 1 with Toronto!

How many other regions can say that?!?!?

Since the Syracuse pictures aren't showing up on the first page any longer, I'll post a couple of Syracuse...

http://www.pbase.com/ciceroclay/image/29757814/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/ciceroclay/image/29757986/original.jpg

Too bad Lake Ontario wasn't a bit narrower - you'd have a 3 fer 1 with Toronto!

How many other regions can say that?!?!?

I'm working on that...with a 400mm lens I might be able to pick up the CN and Bank of Montreal tower of Toronto...in these photos it sits right behind the Dunlop stacks (?) in Tonawanda.

I cant quite get it with my 200mm...but its there.

i will be in upstate new york next week. i may take a drive out to buff or rochester if the weather is decent. my brother just moved from utica to syracuse to i may take a few pics of syracuse. unfortunatly, everytime i'm in syracuse, it's overcast.

Every time I'm in Syracuse, the weather is like as in CiceroClark's pictures (Finger Lakes as well for that matter, something which seems likely to happen again this weekend).

When I'm just passing by, however, the weather is usually terrible - running the gamut from severe thunderstorms to snowstorms - and 15 miles either side it's decent.

i will be in upstate new york next week. i may take a drive out to buff or rochester if the weather is decent. my brother just moved from utica to syracuse to i may take a few pics of syracuse. unfortunatly, everytime i'm in syracuse, it's overcast.

It was the same way for Pataki's last five years in office. Every time Pataki came to Syracuse it was either raining or snowing. Seriously!

It was the opposite for Chuck Schumer. It's almost always a nice day when Chuck Schumer visits Syracuse. Gov. Spitzer gets a mixed bag. Last winter, Spitzer came during a blizzard. This summer, both times when Spitzer was in Syracuse, it was clear blue skies with highs above 80 degrees.... including today when Spitzer visited the NYS Fair.

Watch SU Football or Basketball on national TV?

Well, here's an interesting fact. The national camera crew will only film extensively outside the Dome if its raining, cloudy or snowing. If its a nice day, you get to see one or two seconds outside the Dome...if that.

The national sports media has made it a point to make fun of Upstate NY weather. They don't want to ruin their anti-Upstate campaign by showing blue skies and sun.

Gov Spitzer in Syracuse video:
http://www.news10now.com/shared/video/video_pop.asp?destlist=68961

Bill Carey makes CNY look like hicksville. Urgh!

This question is for you Buffalo and Rochester guys. When the NYS Governor visits your city, does your local media EVER ask the Governor about local economic development or local economy issues?

Why do I ask? Well, when the Governor visits Syracuse, the local media always asks questions that have absolutely nothing to do with the Syracuse area...usually state or national issues.

Well, whatta you know. Turn on the news and see Chuck Schumer at the Fair on a cloudy day. Think I just jinxed myself. :lol:

Watch SU Football or Basketball on national TV?

Well, here's an interesting fact. The national camera crew will only film extensively outside the Dome if its raining, cloudy or snowing. If its a nice day, you get to see one or two seconds outside the Dome...if that.

The national sports media has made it a point to make fun of Upstate NY weather. They don't want to ruin their anti-Upstate campaign by showing blue skies and sun.

Bingo! I got it right again. Beautiful sunny day in Syracuse today and ESPN will not show us any film footage outside the Dome during tonight's game. Its fairly common in most Football games on national TV to show shots of the college campus, or nearby attractions when breaking to commercials etc.

SU Football: Syracuse v Washington on ESPN on August 31st 2007.....no film of the clear blue skies and perfect weather outside. Also, no mention of the good weather by the broadcasters. You'll only hear about weather in Upstate NY if its rainy, snowy, overcast, or cold. Nice days are hush hush....

^^ I noticed that too.

Click the skyline archive on my signature for a state by state skyline photo gallery. You can see the upstate New York Skylines too.

Here is a direct link to New York State Skylines. :)
New York State skylines (http://usaspatriot.proboards38.com/index.cgi?board=places&action=display&thread=1166304237&page=3#1166556555)

^^ Just a heads-up, you misspelled "Binghamton" in the text on your page.

Poor Fargo - their's is during a huge flood!

^^ Just a heads-up, you misspelled "Binghamton" in the text on your page.

Poor Fargo - their's is during a huge flood!

Thank you. I'll fix that. :)

Anyoen can contribute images if they got better ones. Just PM them to me or post them as a guest. Always willing to make the Skyline archive bigger. Any cities you think should be on the list, please tell me. Provide photos too, anything. Thanks for helping make it better.

I like Buffalo's, but I always thought Rochester's had a better composition from most angles - a nicer grouping.

And the Genesee River winding thru it is quite beautiful.

Syracuse has a great view from SU and is quite nice for a city it's size.

Albany's is - just strange with the Empire Plaza complex very out of place but nice looking buildings just the same...

And as far as the disturbing pissing match between Buff and Roc - I find it very disturbing to say the least...

While my heart is always with my hometown of Buffalo, I was always impressed with the Bauch & Lomb and Xerox buildings in Rochester, not to mention that Art Deco masterpiece with teh winged Statues atop it all - I always thought the Batman series of movies should have somehow included this building as the quintesential building type for the backdrop.

To each his own...

not to mention that Art Deco masterpiece with teh winged Statues atop it all - I always thought the Batman series of movies should have somehow included this building as the quintesential building type for the backdrop.

To each his own...
You mean the Times Square building? My favorite Rochester building!

I completely forgot about this thread...

Seems like all the "skylines" in upstate NY are still dominated by buildings from the 60s & early 70s, their last big building booms, & before.

Given those limited choices, I'd rank Albany, with its towering Empire State Plaza first, followed by Rochester & Buffalo.

For me it would have to be Rochester, Buffalo has a few taller and more interesting towers but Rochester has a nicer cluster. It also helps knowing what's beneath the skyline. Rochester offers more of an urban experience where I've always found Buffalo's downtown to be a beaten up and run down no mans land. Albany is just horrible. As for Syracuse it has a nice but really short and small skyline, much better at street level.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2235/2453424370_9f7212b54c_b.jpg

Source : Stitched Skyline by Pixeleyes on flickr

That is a very pretty image of Rochester but To me it looks like Buffalo clusters pretty good
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7550/south13bg.gif

IN any case Buffalo wins on so many levels it is not even a competition

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8649/bfloskylinegrainecbthumps3.jpg

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/261/buffaloxw1.jpg

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/8552/liberty6thumb404x505137qk8.jpg

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1121/casciothumb505xauto1363uq9.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8808/liberty3thumb455x504136ex8.jpg

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2299/skyline2pq0.jpg

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4757/skyline1wx4.jpg

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/8505/farnsworth2cg0.png

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9808/lakeerie194gx.jpg

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/8379/eriebasin38bb.jpg

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1055/hsbchaze4kg.jpg

http://img173.imageshack.us/img173/848/img40217mw.jpg

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2059/sundeck30zd.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6470/021800161vq.jpg

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3857/rand1sm2ub.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4866/ship19nm.gif

Buffalo wins and is followed closely by Rochester.

rochester: profile, most picturesque

buffalo: size and density. another tall like HSBC and would be hands down winner.

albany: height though EP looks out of place compared to rest of downtown. very planet of the apes like.

Buffalo has the whole art deco, gothic, spire thing going.

Rochester is clean shaven and reasonably modern.

Syracuse is like a mini-Rochester.

Albany...Nelson Rockefeller's wet dream, Brasilia on the Hudson, the Monument to Government. Take that out and restore what was there and would have happened subsequent, and you'd probably have something really nice.

Man, I gotta rep a little more for Albany here.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1629/ab151.jpg
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/676/ab146.jpg

Pound for pound its a great package(considering how small the city is).

Albany's skyline is just creepy

Well, I am sold by the Albany parking garage picture.

Well, I am sold by the Albany parking garage picture.

My bad, I was trying to get a better shot there but its tough when your also driving.

Albany does have some decent looking buildings and density, down by the riverfront towards I-787 if I'm not mistaken (not horribly familiar)? The Alfred E Smith building isn't too bad either.

I just don't like ESP on just about every level. It does more harm than good to the skyline, IMO. I would think without it, Albany might have a skyline more on the level of Harrisburg, PA (maybe a little better), which IMHO has a much more balanced and just plain better appearance. That, and I just can't stand what it symbolizes, what it cost, and how it damn near destroyed the local construction industry. Maybe I'm just being too classical when I say I think capital cities are "above" height. I do like the Corning tower somewhat, but it's too tall. Although it's a much better looking building, it throws off Albany's skyline worse than HSBC throws off Buffalo's (from the NW-SE) and that's saying something. It's simply "too tall" for its surroundings.

I do like "the Egg" however. It's just too prominent and gives off more of a bizarre vibe than it probably deserves to. On the other extreme, Star Trek just called, it wants its building back (the state library). That building seriously needs to be fixed up for a date with a wrecking ball or some explosives.

perhaps if the 4 agency buildings and the corning tower were clustered closer together, the skyline might look ok but it looks very disjointed and sterile.

Buffalo! :yes:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3462/3354887285_86ab451440_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3581/3355696536_c36ac965b6_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/2954591915_f4b167183a_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3345/3334639584_f818a91bca_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3141/3047224750_75183d2c35_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3607/3353148060_15825782f0_o.jpg

Beat that!!! ;)


Dense, beautiful, and picturesque. Could it be better? Of course! Is it the best upstate skyline? Of course! :) Everyone haws their own opinions though and I respect you all!

Empire State Plaza just doesn't work for the skyline in Albany. It is not integrated into the city and it just seems unnatural. I don't think I've ever seen that in any of the others state capitals I've been to like Sacramento, Denver, Columbus, Indy, Hartford or any really.

Isn't the "base" of Empire State Plaza (under the "mall") is a building unto itself as well? If that's the case, technically speaking, the whole thing is one building.

Here's a good juxtaposition: Ugly on the left, nice on the right...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/aa/Albany8%28YK_Times%29.jpg

WTF? No wonder the legislature is as dysfunctional as it is. You would be too if you had to work here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NYSLOB.JPG

:puke:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NYSJusticeBuilding.JPG

Beam me up, Scotty!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CulturalEducationCenter1.JPG

Links only because the photos are gigantic, and can be quite disturbing to the unsuspecting eye.

The Erastus Corning Tower was originally known as Tower Building. It houses the New York State Office of General Services. :lol:

I also love that the mini-towers are called Agency 1, Agency 2, Agency 3 & Agency 4! So creepy

actually the freeway along the riverfront is much much more of a blight than the ESP. what were they thinking?

ESP is like Brasilia. That project was probably supposed to signal a bold new era for the downtown and inner city and lead to more modern urban development and get rid of blight. Instead, it ripped the fabric of the city apart and alienated a large part of the city with this massive plaza and the highway. I could be describing Buffalo too. Buffalo is number 1 when it comes to this. The waterfront was completely cut off from the city by the highway. Large parts of the downtown were razed for major projects like the HSBC tower that is similar to the ESP in some ways. Cold, uninviting and apart from the the rest of downtown. And of course, the grandaddy of all mistakes closing downtown and making it a pedestrian mall that no pedestrians use.

I've always hated the way that lakefront residential hi-rise awkwardly blocks a huge portion of the downtown skyline

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/2954591915_f4b167183a_b.jpg

Other than the Erastus Corning Tower, Albany doesn't have much of a skyline... in fact the ECT makes the skyline look awkward, much like the Renaissance Center in Detroit does to its skyline.

Evergrey, I don't like the highrise in front of the Buffalo skyline either, though if you could get in that building, that would be an awesome skyline shot...

Cool view from BGH rooftop from November 2008:

See Shea's Buffalo sign lower right

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Night/slides/IMG_1459.jpg


There is an awesome view from Buffalo General top floor roof top. It was unfortunate that a missed an incredible evening sky - I had to settle for standard night skies... ^^

BGH: (you have to get to the roof of her, truly spectacular from rooftop You can see the Falls and the Niagara skyline, and perhaps the CN Tower in Toronto on a clear day.) the tower -

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Medical%20Corridor/slides/IMG_3758.jpg


From the skyway -
Downtown in Blue:

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Night/slides/IMG_3876.jpg

Dense:

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Night/slides/IMG_3851.jpg

Treo:

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Night/slides/IMG_3992.jpg

Buffalo, New York light-up signature signs:


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Night/slides/IMG_0874.jpg


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Night/slides/IMG_0821.jpg


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Night/slides/Cabaret2.JPG


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Night/slides/IMG_0825.jpg


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Night/slides/IMG_3434.jpg


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Elmwood%20Avenue/slides/IMG_1908.jpg


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Night/slides/IMG_3207.jpg


There are more out there!

Believe it or not, signs actually might affect a city skyline by night, perhaps not as much as a skyscraper piercing the sky, but still...

;)

Lovely pics, Buffalonian4Life! I'm loving them!

Lovely pics, Buffalonian4Life! I'm loving them!


Thanks Jaybird - Gotta love cities like Buffalo, they are full of various angles of beautiful buildings and architecture. I've been roaming this forum for years, I thought I would post for once... The forums I'm in currently are getting old - this one beats them out by a mile+


Funny, I have searched on google for Buffalo related forums, and I've always come back here. I have often read your posts and have personally viewed your photos many times. Job well done. Keep it up!

Cheers! From one urban photographer to another. :cheers:

You have a Sony camera... Are they good? I've trusted Canon Cameras for years (and Nikon), but I'm interested in the fact that you have a Sony camera - not too many people I know have them. Personally, I have a Canon 50D camera (I got to get a better lens... suggestions?), I'd love to hear some photographer input! ;)


Anyone know if BuffCity will ever be back?

^ He may not be back for a while, yet, he's overseas in the Navy performing security duties. I'll try to get in contact with him and see how he's doing. I think in the meantime, you could be BuffCity 2.0, lol! He referred me as the Canadian BuffCity, with my liking of Buffalo as a Canadian.

I was supposed to come to Buffalo next week, but work issues will delay that, but I will try to come in the summer time. I haven't taken pictures in the Buff for quite some time. :)

^ He may not be back for a while, yet, he's overseas in the Navy performing security duties. I'll try to get in contact with him and see how he's doing. I think in the meantime, you could be BuffCity 2.0, lol! He referred me as the Canadian BuffCity, with my liking of Buffalo as a Canadian.

I was supposed to come to Buffalo next week, but work issues will delay that, but I will try to come in the summer time. I haven't taken pictures in the Buff for quite some time. :)

Hahahaha, "BuffCity 2.0" - I love it! lol :lol:

I look forward to seeing more of more pics come summertime - Buffalo is such an awesome, thriving place during the summer - so much easier to get out there and take some pictures as well!

Hope to see you in Buffalo sometime soon and things work out! ;)

How about Buffalo's Art Deco Rand building? This giant in the skyline is considered as the inspiration for the Empire State Building in NYC. Without a doubt, it is one of my favorite buildings in Buffalo, and a great centerpiece on the skyline. It's the buildings like these that make a prominently historic, large, bustling metropolis of Buffalo such an awesome place. The tower should soon be getting new lights as it once did.


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_6146.jpg



Buffalo City Hall, one of the largest in the world, still holds as the bookend to the HSBC Tower on the Buffalo skyline.

City Hall from the back (with my old camera - I mean old, so it appears pretty grainy) :

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_6496.jpg

Guaranty Building - one of the first skyscrapers in the world (left):

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_6503.jpg

Statler Towers Hotel (sight of Millard Fillmore's house) :

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_4220.jpg

Electric Tower:

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_4845.jpg


Hyatt Regency Buffalo:

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_5624.jpg


Sort of modern Buffalo skyscrapers:


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_6510.jpg


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_6515.jpg

Tallest:
http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_6520.jpg


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_2671.jpg

...

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_2677.jpg


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_2638.jpg


Okay, not the best view of the Buffalo skyline, but still

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_2691.jpg

Main Street:

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_2895.jpg


Main Street: Bringing cars back!

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_1212.jpg


Central Buffalo:

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_3543.jpg


Downtown Buffalo Main Street Winter:

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_3704.jpg


Downtown Financial District:

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_4834.jpg


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_4829.jpg


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_4359.jpg


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_4345.jpg


Modern Buffalo:

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_4417.jpg


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_5533.jpg


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_5538.jpg


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_5528.jpg


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_5621.jpg


Construction:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3602/3355352566_042b6d523c_o.jpg

Extreme south side of downtown:


http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_6429.jpg

these are some of the best Buffalo photos I've ever seen... you really found the angles that showcase Downtown Buffalo's density and architectural variety... the usual "postcard" skyline shots (like from the lake) are not very flattering IMO... you should post these in SSC's "Skyline Photos" subforum and showcase Buffalo to a global audience

Any substantiation to "new lights on the Rand"? I've been hearing stuff about it, but wasn't aware that it was something that was actually "gonna" happen.

Too bad that Tishmann/10 Lafayette is virtually vacant. It's got a nice transitional 1950s "modern meets art deco" look (granted the back is pretty ugly), it's on an excellent, dense block, and along with the Rand being Buffalo's only "conjoined" skyscrapers.

these are some of the best Buffalo photos I've ever seen... you really found the angles that showcase Downtown Buffalo's density and architectural variety... the usual "postcard" skyline shots (like from the lake) are not very flattering IMO... you should post these in SSC's "Skyline Photos" subforum and showcase Buffalo to a global audience


Thank you so much for the kind comments, I've been on various forums posting thousands of times on Buffalo's urban beauty. It truly is one of the most architecturally rich centers in the nation. Being once the 3rd densest city in the country, and one of the fastest growing metropolises, between east and west conversions, Buffalo's unique geographical standpoint features a variety of incredible architecture. A great city like Buffalo has preserved a good amount of historic buildings, as downtown is starting to grow again as well!

Putting together a love for cities, architecture, my hometown, and photography, you get a resident of WNY who strives to make the area we live in and love look great in photography. Time to show the world Buffalo's architectural treasures and beautiful skyline.

Any substantiation to "new lights on the Rand"? I've been hearing stuff about it, but wasn't aware that it was something that was actually "gonna" happen.

Too bad that Tishmann/10 Lafayette is virtually vacant. It's got a nice transitional 1950s "modern meets art deco" look (granted the back is pretty ugly), it's on an excellent, dense block, and along with the Rand being Buffalo's only "conjoined" skyscrapers.


There's some sort of rally being organized to get the owners of the Rand Building to "Re-light the Rand!"

I hope all will make an effort to enforce this upon the owners, as Buffalo continues to re-create "The City of Light."

Like in the 1920's:
http://www.forgottenbuffalo.com/images/288_Rand_Postcard_-_Night_2.jpg


I sure hope the Tishman does indeed find a new owner and revamp it somehow. (Center City Downtown Condos?)... A new curtain wall on the main three faces of the building, being next to the Rand Building, it should compliment the significant art-deco tower, not distract. What a boon for downtown and Main Street that would be!


Kind of an odd view from the south of the two towers:

http://www.buffaloscenicprints.com/albums/Downtown%20By%20Day/slides/IMG_5440.jpg

you should post these in SSC's "Skyline Photos" subforum and showcase Buffalo to a global audience

I posted them here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=34629368#post34629368

Buffalonian4life you need to stop embellishing facts about Buffalo. It was never the 6th largest city. It was the 8th. City hall dosent have an observation deck on the 32nd floor. It dosent even have a 32nd floor. Its on the 23rd. HSBC tower is not 600ft tall and the 3rd most dense city fact I am unable to confirm but i dont beleive it to be true. We all love Buffalo, and know a lot about it. No need to make stuff up.

Buffalonian4life you need to stop embellishing facts about Buffalo. It was never the 6th largest city. It was the 8th. City hall dosent have an observation deck on the 32nd floor. It dosent even have a 32nd floor. Its on the 23rd. HSBC tower is not 600ft tall and the 3rd most dense city fact I am unable to confirm but i dont beleive it to be true. We all love Buffalo, and know a lot about it. No need to make stuff up.

:ohno:

I did not make anything up, thank you very much.

HSBC Tower is taller on one side than another - it was built into a valley to which created this phenomenon, which is why you will hear varied answers to its true height. Buffalo was the 6th largest city just after 1900. At the 1900 census, Buffalo was the 8th largest city in America, I will give you that, but you need to look into the true facts that are easily missed. City Hall DOES have 32 floors. I looked it up and actually the observation deck is on the 28th, not the very top. Buffalo is not the 3rd most dense city but it was back in I believe 1950?, when Buffalo reached its peak population. Sure we all love Buffalo, you have failed to receive accurate facts and are misinformed. My goal on this forum is not to embellish random Buffalo facts, but to educate people on the true Buffalo and through quality pictures. If you don't like it then scram, because I'm sure there is more than one forumer on my side...

At this point, Buffalo's population density in 1950 is pretty much water under the bridge, it's less than half that today.

That being the case, NYC, Boston, San Francisco, Chicago, Newark, Jersey City, & I'm sure a few other comperable cities all had higher densities than Buffalo did in 1950. But interestingly Buffalo did have higher citywide densities than Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cincinnatti & most of the other Great Lakes/Midwest cities, & in many cases still does.

That Buffalo reached densities close to, or higher than, many cities where apartment houses & row houses predominated is kinda surprising given that the city's housing stock was/is heavily comprised of 1.5 & 2.5 story detached frame houses. One reason is that Buffalo' was/is almost uniformly solidly built up & given up for residential use aside for a few railroad & industrial areas in east & southwest Buffalo, & the city has comparativelty few parks or other open spaces.

Compare Buffalo's layout with cities like Boston, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincinnatti, & St. Louis. The inner parts of these cities have many more apartment houses, rowhouses, three deckers, &/ other higher density residential uses. But moving outward, they also have more parks, parkways, industrial/vacant zones & other unpopulated areas that break up the residential areas.

In these & other cities, the densities tend to be high near the core, but they thin out toward the city fringes. If anything today, given how depopulated many of the core areas have become, Buffalo has HIGHER densities toward the outer areas, some of the West Side areas being an exception.

HSBC Tower is taller on one side than another - it was built into a valley to which created this phenomenon, which is why you will hear varied answers to its true height.
It's not 600'. I think the official value is 529', and the slope that it's built into might make the maximum above-ground height be somewhere around (I think I've seen) 541'. Hey, take what you can get. Technically that makes it about as high above sea level as the Empire State Building.

the corning tower in albany is the tallest building in upstate and that's 589'.

At this point, Buffalo's population density in 1950 is pretty much water under the bridge, it's less than half that today.

That being the case, NYC, Boston, San Francisco, Chicago, Newark, Jersey City, & I'm sure a few other comperable cities all had higher densities than Buffalo did in 1950. But interestingly Buffalo did have higher citywide densities than Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cincinnatti & most of the other Great Lakes/Midwest cities, & in many cases still does.

That Buffalo reached densities close to, or higher than, many cities where apartment houses & row houses predominated is kinda surprising given that the city's housing stock was/is heavily comprised of 1.5 & 2.5 story detached frame houses. One reason is that Buffalo' was/is almost uniformly solidly built up & given up for residential use aside for a few railroad & industrial areas in east & southwest Buffalo, & the city has comparativelty few parks or other open spaces.

Compare Buffalo's layout with cities like Boston, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincinnatti, & St. Louis. The inner parts of these cities have many more apartment houses, rowhouses, three deckers, &/ other higher density residential uses. But moving outward, they also have more parks, parkways, industrial/vacant zones & other unpopulated areas that break up the residential areas.

In these & other cities, the densities tend to be high near the core, but they thin out toward the city fringes. If anything today, given how depopulated many of the core areas have become, Buffalo has HIGHER densities toward the outer areas, some of the West Side areas being an exception.

Actually Buffalo has vast industrial areas and a relatively large Park System. Remember that just because a city has row houses it does not necessarily have more houses in the same amount of space. Also places like Cinci and Pitts have large areas of unbuilt space because of steep terrain. Boston has large areas of water.

It's not 600'. I think the official value is 529', and the slope that it's built into might make the maximum above-ground height be somewhere around (I think I've seen) 541'. Hey, take what you can get. Technically that makes it about as high above sea level as the Empire State Building.

Counting the antenna? lol

It's crazy to think that a city like Buffalo is about 53 sq. miles and a city like Nashville is 525 sq. miles. Nashville is considered way bigger than Buffalo. If Buffalo were to expand to 525 sq. miles, it would be a top 25 city.

It's crazy to think that a city like Buffalo is about 53 sq. miles and a city like Nashville is 525 sq. miles. Nashville is considered way bigger than Buffalo. If Buffalo were to expand to 525 sq. miles, it would be a top 25 city.

My thoughts exactly.

Actually, Buffalo is 41 sq mi, not 53. In fact, isn't Rochester slightly bigger?

NY cites: land area

NYC: 305
rome: 75 (includes former AFB)
buffalo: 41
rochester: 36
syracuse: 26
albany: 21
utica: 16
niagara falls: 14
schenectady: 11
troy: 10
binghamton: 10

It's crazy to think that a city like Buffalo is about 53 sq. miles and a city like Nashville is 525 sq. miles. Nashville is considered way bigger than Buffalo. If Buffalo were to expand to 525 sq. miles, it would be a top 25 city.

Buffalo should merge with Erie County

That would put Buffalo in at 1227 square miles.

Not to disagree entirely, but if I were drafting up a map of consolidation, I wouldn't take the whole county. I would probably take (going clockwise) Tonawanda (T), Tonawanda (C), Amherst, Clarence (maybe), Cheektowaga, Lancaster, West Seneca, Orchard Park, Lackwanna, and Hamburg. The rest is too rural and we'd just end up with a microcosm of the whole upstate vs. downstate shitting match within the county itself.

Or, for administrative reasons it might be more appropriate to just cut the county in half at the southern edge of Hamburg-OP-Aurora-Wales, call everything to the north Buffalo and everything south can remain "Erie County". I would imagine that would still be a good 600-700 sq mi.

It's silly that there are cities that are considered larger. For example, Lexington KY is technically a larger city with 279,000 people as is Anchorage AK with roughly the same number of people. Lexington's population density is 915 people per sq. mile. Anchorage is 153. buffalo is 7,208 (which is among the most dense in the country).

Albany is fascinating in its own right. Does anyone have any aerial photos of the downtown area prior to the construction of ESP?

I'd like to see that. I read that they displaced about 9,000 people when they built that. I bet there were some nice neighborhoods that were destroyed.

I'd like to see that. I read that they displaced about 9,000 people when they built that. I bet there were some nice neighborhoods that were destroyed.

Oh that's rough. :ohno:

There was wholesale displacement in Buffalo too. It might happen in Buffalo soon when they build the new customs plaza. I think they need to rethink that.

Yeah at least if it happens in Buffalo, it's not of the same scale, it's for something that actually serves a purpose, and it's in a (like it or not) neighborhood that's doing a pretty good job of decaying on its own. Heck, it's probably cheaper, too, even comparing 2009 to 1970s dollars.

Were any of Buffalo's major developments of the sort that displaced tons of people? Of course there was HSBC Tower (and Arena for that matter) that displaced commercial areas, but it doesn't seem to be anything really worth noting (Tower, maybe?).

OK here is what I was able to find on Albany and its urban background. The text quoted here can be found at http://www.andrewcusack.com/blog/new_york/:



http://www.andrewcusack.com/albany1.jpg

This photo of Albany, the capital of New York, from the 1950's shows a city that, if it weren't for the straight streets, seems to almost have the feel of a poverty-stricken Eastern European capital.
Unfortunately, it became even more like a poverty-stricken Eastern European capital when Big Brother decided to get rid of it all and replace it with a giant, heartless, government plaza.


http://www.andrewcusack.com/albany2.jpg

I wonder if Governor Rockefeller visited Brasilia and thought "Gee, I ought to get me one of them!" Empire State Plaza (or Governor Nelson A. Rockefeller Empire State Plaza as it is now officially known) involved the displacement of thousands of poor people, hundreds of small businesses, bad architecture, and the humongous cost – partly owing to the omnipresent use of marble instead of more economic stones. The result was the destruction of a large community built on a human scale in favor of an expensive, espansive, inhospitable Communist dreamland on the Hudson. A crime against humanity.

That's pretty similar to a synopsis I had read at one point (if I can remember where it was I'll post a link).

Just think, in a city nowadays, those neighborhoods would probably be gentrifying quite nicely (in a city outside of NYS where those things happen, that is). Or at least possibly be on an equivalent with Buffalo's Allentown or something like that...gritty but chugging along nicely.

:cheers:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3581/3355696536_c36ac965b6_o.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3462/3354887285_86ab451440_o.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3252/3046327421_841ab05a04_o.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3001/3047133292_93242761bc_o.jpg

Actually Buffalo has vast industrial areas and a relatively large Park System. Remember that just because a city has row houses it does not necessarily have more houses in the same amount of space. Also places like Cinci and Pitts have large areas of unbuilt space because of steep terrain. Boston has large areas of water.

Yes, Buffalo had substantial industrial areas, but nothing on the scale of say Cleveland, which also has significant unbuilt space around the ridges & rivers. Buffalo had/has a nice park & parkway system but in terms of size, its a lot smaller compared to say what Boston or Chicago have.

The water isn't counted as part of Boston's land area. Boston's inner districts are very built up, with high-density apartment buildings & three deckers. But as one goes further south past Jamaica Plain toward West Roxbury, Hyde Park & Roslindale, the densities go way down, much of Boston's far southwestern areas seem more suburban than anything within Buffalo's city limits.

Take a city even like Kansas City MO that has a huge sprawling land area, much larger than Buffalo. Yet some of KC's inner central areas have much more in the way of high-density apartment buildings, old & new than anything in Buffalo. In Buffalo, the density of housing & population seems much more unvaried.

Maybe its just a function of Buffalo being developed rather quickly in a comparatively modest timeframe during the late 19th & early 20th century.

Yes, Buffalo had substantial industrial areas, but nothing on the scale of say Cleveland, which also has significant unbuilt space around the ridges & rivers. Buffalo had/has a nice park & parkway system but in terms of size, its a lot smaller compared to say what Boston or Chicago have.

The water isn't counted as part of Boston's land area. Boston's inner districts are very built up, with high-density apartment buildings & three deckers. But as one goes further south past Jamaica Plain toward West Roxbury, Hyde Park & Roslindale, the densities go way down, much of Boston's far southwestern areas seem more suburban than anything within Buffalo's city limits.

Take a city even like Kansas City MO that has a huge sprawling land area, much larger than Buffalo. Yet some of KC's inner central areas have much more in the way of high-density apartment buildings, old & new than anything in Buffalo. In Buffalo, the density of housing & population seems much more unvaried.

Maybe its just a function of Buffalo being developed rather quickly in a comparatively modest timeframe during the late 19th & early 20th century.


Buffalo's Industrial areas are larger as a percentage of its land area than Cleveland. Its Park area is about 7 times larger than Chicago's as a percentage of its land area. Buffalo also has a very large cemetery within its city boundary.

Albany is fascinating in its own right. Does anyone have any aerial photos of the downtown area prior to the construction of ESP?

Ask and ye shall receieve:

1936.. the Empire State Plaza went in just behind that white slab of a building in the upper left
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5064/1936aerialdt.jpg

1948
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/9489/1948aerialeast.jpg

1948 again
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/904/1948aerialnorth.jpg

1950s
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1769/1950scolorskyline.jpg

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6386/19510621aerialwest.jpg

And some stuff from the past few years:

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5142/aerial200707091.jpg

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/180/20080821skyline.jpg

It's from this angle (facing due west) that the skyline looks good and cohesive
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8899/2007skyline.jpg


And some general Albany. All of these pics were taken by me:

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8741/img2433ei1.jpg

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2395/picture300mh3.jpg

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/9434/picture310ui0.jpg

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/3351/picture312vx3.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3611/038ju1.jpg

http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/7691/051iu.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/6656/picture336po3.jpg

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4952/picture345kg3.jpg

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/9504/picture363sj6.jpg

a slice of the Old World:

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/2821/picture368zr8.jpg

http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/5130/picture386fy9.jpg

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/8127/picture391vp3.jpg

view from the parking lot wasteland at the south end of downtown:

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2823/picture414rd9.jpg

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6614/picture401ek7.jpg

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2915/picture399op7.jpg

In and of itself, I don't mind the Corning Tower. Though it is ironic that it's shaped like a coffin.

Along with most of the bigger pieces of the Buffalo skyline, I modeled the building for SimCity and had one of the "Agency Towers" about 90% done, but real life intervened and I haven't done anything in 5 years...and doubtful I'll ever get back to it.

Those are some very good photos of Albany.

The Corning tower and other state plaza towers remind me of the twin towers, which is one reason I like the building and plaza. The street level shots and the architecture of Albany look incredible. It's like Syracuse on STEROIDS.

Buffalo's...Park area is about 7 times larger than Chicago's as a percentage of its land area. Buffalo also has a very large cemetery within its city boundary.

Chicago has at least 11 square miles of parks, that's about 5% of Chicago's 225 square miles. For Buffalo to have 7 times that percentage of parkland that would 35 square miles, that is a large majority of the city's 41 square miles.

In truth, Delaware Park's the only large park in Buffalo that begins to compare in size with any of many the large parks in Chicago etc. Humboldt Park, one of the smaller parks in Chicago, seems similar in size to the ex-Humboldt Park in Buffalo, Martin Luther King Park.

You are right though, Forest Lawn is a huge cemetary, reflecting that Buffalo has lots of ex-residents!

Buffalo's Industrial areas are larger as a percentage of its land area than Cleveland.

Looking over same scale maps that outline the industrial zones among other land uses provides a good comparison.

Its clear that Buffalo has considerably less industrial space than Cleveland & just a fraction of Chicago's. Cleveland has a big industrial zone in Cuhagoa River Valley & several other clusters along the railroad corriders on both the east & west sides.

The huge industrial area in SE Chicago along the Calumet River, where the steel mil used to be, alone dwarfs all the industrial area in Buffalo. Add to that the extensive industrial zones in SW Chicago & in along the the rivers & railroads that span out from the loop to the NW & West Sides, Chicago really has a huge amount of industrial space, looks about equal in size to the whole city of Buffalo.

Many, if not most, of the factories in all 3 cities have closed, leaving plenty of vacant space. Having regrown, I'd imagine Chicago though has more incentives to recycle its industrial space, as opposed to declining cities like Buffalo & Cleveland.

Chicago has at least 11 square miles of parks, that's about 5% of Chicago's 225 square miles. For Buffalo to have 7 times that percentage of parkland that would 35 square miles, that is a large majority of the city's 41 square miles.

In truth, Delaware Park's the only large park in Buffalo that begins to compare in size with any of many the large parks in Chicago etc. Humboldt Park, one of the smaller parks in Chicago, seems similar in size to the ex-Humboldt Park in Buffalo, Martin Luther King Park.

You are right though, Forest Lawn is a huge cemetary, reflecting that Buffalo has lots of ex-residents!

Actually you are right Buffalo's Park system maxes out at just under 6% of city land as opposed to Chicao's approximately 5%.

Buffalo's land area devoted to industrial uses seems to be approx 15% I don't have time to check it but my point is you keep using absolute numbers versus percentages. Absolute numbers are meaningless when comparing Buffalo to a city with a land area 5 1/2 times greater.


Anyway what is your point?

Buffalo should merge with Erie County


There was a plan earlier in decade that would effectively abolished the city of Buffalo & merged into Erie County. It didn't make much sense though for many reasons, including the fact that all suburbs, I think there are over 40, including tiny ones like Sloan, would have remained intact!

Given that Buffalo's been a steadily shrinking region for eoons it makes sense to have more governmental consolidation. But the suburbs are the place to start. Nothing wrong with being a city of 280,000 so long as there's an agenda to reverse the decline, which of course there isn't. But many of the suburbs around Buffalo are literally dying out. I think Pittsburgh's surrounded by even more little dying burbs.

Don't know if anybody would be interested, but I just found some old photos of the Rochester skyline in a family photo album that must be from the late 80s because Bausch and Lomb Place is not there and the Hyatt is under construction. I think they were taken from our boat in the Genesee River. I could try to take pictures of the photos without a scanner.

Look at this rochester skyline photo, taken from an elevation. Look how much bigger it makes the city look. This is how they should be taken. Most Rochester skylines only show the three tallest. http://rocwiki.org/Rochester_Skyline?action=Files&do=view&target=skyline.jpg

That shows so much more of Rochester all the way over to include even the Kodak Tower, but lol I just noticed it cuts off the Xerox Tower!

I tried taking pictures of my old Rochester photographs but it didn't work very well.

Okay I got them to look okay; I believe the one shows the renovation of the Chase Tower because the fins were falling off. I wish they would paint them yellow and make it the McDonalds world headquarters :)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcadimensia/5272472916/sizes/o/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcadimensia/5271864851/sizes/o/in/photostream/
fuck it I don't know how to add pictures

Look at this rochester skyline photo, taken from an elevation. Look how much bigger it makes the city look. This is how they should be taken. Most Rochester skylines only show the three tallest. http://rocwiki.org/Rochester_Skyline?action=Files&do=view&target=skyline.jpg

That shows so much more of Rochester all the way over to include even the Kodak Tower, but lol I just noticed it cuts off the Xerox Tower!

I tried taking pictures of my old Rochester photographs but it didn't work very well.

Okay I got them to look okay; I believe the one shows the renovation of the Chase Tower because the fins were falling off. I wish they would paint them yellow and make it the McDonalds world headquarters :)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcadimensia/5272472916/sizes/o/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcadimensia/5271864851/sizes/o/in/photostream/
fuck it I don't know how to add pictures

You must add the hyperlink of the image itself (for example a .JPG or .JPEG) in between the [IMG] tags, not the website's address.

So I have to upload them here? I don't know how to get to a JPG from flickr where I put them. I could put them on wikipedia or something just to get a jpg.
Okay I got it the big one was the clearest photo. Both are pictures of photo prints. The second one is full size because you can see the renovation of the Chase Tower
fins that were falling off and the construction of the Hyatt hotel building. I'm not sure what's happening but you can see a platform on the outside of the Chase Building.

Hey where the heck is the "X" on the Xerox Tower? What year was that put on?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/66/Skyline_of_Rochester_NY_in_1987.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fb/Rochester%2C_New_York_in_1987.JPG


That's great how do you reduce the size.

The Clinton Square Building is also not there, one that shows up as a filler in most Rochester photos.

If there is another thread I could add this too where some Rochester enthusiasts might see and be interested in it let me know. Maybe a history of Rochester thread.

After actually reading some of this thread, I say this, Rochester has the best SMALL skyline in Upstate New York, and agianst other small cities all over the country. With the bridge and the river, it really looks nice. Buffalo looks kind of messy. It seems like whenever there is a bunch of short art deco-ish triangle shaped roof buildings mixed in with the tall post moderns it just looks out of place. All of Rochester's old buildings mix in well because they were never meant to look decorative and happy, just industrious and sqaure, made of bricks. Since when does "best skyline" mean "most highrises". They are almost opposites, really.

Albany and Syracuse have nothing on, and Buffalo as well does not look as good as Rochester. I think a historic main street or downtown with all the connected brick buildings looks better than most cities.

Looking at the pictures I put up, I say that Bausch & Lomb Place is what makes Rochester look good. The turny restaurant building is cool but is too far west and usually not shown. But look at the pictures I just posted and how empty the Lincoln Tower and Xerox Tower look without the modern and glassier Bausch and Lomb.

From an aerial perspective Buffalo blows other upstate cities away, but from a skyline perspective it wins by a small margin over Rochester IMO.

I don't know if you had an aerial picture of Rochester to compare to; I see the Buffalo one, but here is a nice Rochester aerial:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Rochester_aerial_aug_17_2007.jpg

Also as far as a nice close together grouping I think Rochester wins by so far; look at this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Skyline_Rochester%2C_NY.jpg

The river and the new bridge do so much. I think it's so funny though, how someone painted "rochester sucks" on the bridge overlooking the road right after it was built.

Look what I just found: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=15930621149

lol how did Syracuse even get 13 votes? Syracuse has less of a skyline than Binghamton, largely because there is no place to take a picture from. Look at this one of Binghamton.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Binghamton_skyline.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Binghamton_skyline.jpg

syracuse does have a pretty decent downtown/skyline for its size.

http://www.sunyabem.org/images/Newest%20Pictures/Buffalo%20Region/buffaloskyline-web.jpg

http://www.posterartusa.com/images/T/80smBuffaloSkyline06.jpg

http://www.investinwny.com/images/buffalo_skyline.jpg

http://www.buffalonews.com/incoming/article194428.ece/BINARY/w620/LOCAL+BUFFALO+AERIAL+GEE.jpg

Yeah, the skyline of Buffalo is so much bigger that it's hardly fair to compare them. But I still think that Rochester looks the best, it looks the clearest, and the most "picturesque" with the river and the new arch bridge. And I'm not really biased; I hate Rochester, it's so cold and empty with a plummeting population in the last several decades. The actual city population has nearly halved.

I can't believe Syracuse has almost as many votes as Albany, Albany seems to be not liked but I mean, it has buildings. I liked Albany from the train station. Syracuse looks like a village. I have never seen an actual skyline of Syracuse because I don't think there is one.

I can't believe Syracuse has almost as many votes as Albany, Albany seems to be not liked but I mean, it has buildings. I liked Albany from the train station. Syracuse looks like a village. I have never seen an actual skyline of Syracuse because I don't think there is one.

There aren't many good vantage points to view Syracuse's skyline. Downtown is surrounded by hills, so most views of the skyline have hills as a backdrop instead of sky, especially shots taken from across the lake as many are. This makes the buildings seem shorter than they are. I'm not saying they're huge to begin with, but there's a skyline. Here's a photo looking toward the lake which looks a lot different. (it's hotlinked, sorry)

http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/syracuse-area/42579d1243722667-syracuse-skyline-shots-photo001.jpg

Yeah, the skyline of Buffalo is so much bigger that it's hardly fair to compare them. But I still think that Rochester looks the best, it looks the clearest, and the most "picturesque" with the river and the new arch bridge. And I'm not really biased; I hate Rochester, it's so cold and empty with a plummeting population in the last several decades. The actual city population has nearly halved.

same thing with Buffalo Cleveland detroit and many more cities have lost their population :ohno: sad but true

same thing with Buffalo Cleveland detroit and many more cities have lost their population :ohno: sad but true

To the contrary Downtown LA's population has gone up like 39%. They are experiencing the opposite of urban sprawl where old abandoned office buildings are being turned into loft apartment housing.

"Because of the Downtown office market's migration west to Bunker Hill and the Financial District, many historic office buildings were left intact, simply used for storage or remaining empty during recent decades. In 1999, the Los Angeles City Council passed an adaptive reuse ordinance, making it easier for developers to convert outmoded, vacant office and commercial buildings into renovated lofts and luxury apartment and condo complexes.
As of early 2009, 14,561 residential units[10] have been created under the adaptive reuse ordinance, leading to an increase in the residential population. With 28,878 residents in 2006[11] and 39,537 in 2008,[2] a 36.9% increase, Downtown Los Angeles is seeing new life and investment.[12]"

wikipedia

There was a plan earlier in decade that would effectively abolished the city of Buffalo & merged into Erie County. It didn't make much sense though for many reasons, including the fact that all suburbs, I think there are over 40, including tiny ones like Sloan, would have remained intact!

Given that Buffalo's been a steadily shrinking region for eoons it makes sense to have more governmental consolidation. But the suburbs are the place to start. Nothing wrong with being a city of 280,000 so long as there's an agenda to reverse the decline, which of course there isn't. But many of the suburbs around Buffalo are literally dying out. I think Pittsburgh's surrounded by even more little dying burbs.

I was very surprised that many burbs of Denver are dying as well north Aurora commerce city parts of Lakewood , Northglenn , Englowood parts of Littleton Sheridan

I was very surprised that many burbs of Denver are dying as well north Aurora commerce city parts of Lakewood , Northglenn , Englowood parts of Littleton Sheridan

The hell?

Sheridan is a landlocked, very industrial micro-burb. It was always struggling.

Commerce City is annexing land like crazy, in an attempt to change its image and appeal to a broader demographic; e.g middle-class households that couldn't afford other neighborhoods, or who wanted more home for the money than they could get in Thornton, Northglenn, Aurora and the like. I don't know if CC is siphoning off Mexican-American homeowners who cashed out of NW Denver (Highlands, Sloan Lake and Berkeley). When I was living there, they were selling their NW Denver bungalows and moving to subdivisions in Brighton in droves.

Lakewood is holding its own, with the Belmar project and massive federal employment. Lakewood/Wheat Ridge aren't as meticulously planned as Arvada, Broomfield, Louisville, Superior and the like, but they still have their fans.

Englewood was always a bit working-class, but gentrifying thanks to high real estate prices elsewhere, and convenient light rail access.

Denverites think of north Aurora as a ghetto, but it's all relative, considering the Denver area as a whole is very affluent. North Aurora is no worse off than a typical neighborhood north fo Sheridan Drive in Tonawanda. Lots of new development towards DIA, too. Also, don't forget that Aurora now has a larger population than Buffalo. Central Aurora south of the Adams/Arapahoe county line is mostly middle-class, and the south side of Aurora towards Douglas County is very well-off.

Remember, Denver is more of a boom-and-bust city. When the recession is over, things will roll again. Buffalo has always been just ... there, regardless of the national economy. Extremely slow growth in some areas, slow decline in others.

Great shot of downtown Utica from today's news...
http://www.uticaod.com/features/x911069875/Census-numbers-released?photo=0

Another great shot of downtown Utica...should be included in poll!
http://www.theshadowman.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=3389&fullsize=1

Wait a minute, did Utica actually GAIN population? Interesting, but how many of those are NYC transplants... that's cool, though, that Utica bucked the trend of way too many New York towns and cities.

:)