Sorry Guys .... I must open this thread.
My goal is not to loose anymore land/sea of our sovereignty .....
After we "GIVE" .... Sipadan and Ligitan ............

My other goal is to live in peace with our younger brother Malaysia ...

Let's Tell our younger brother Malaysia ....
( Oh ya .. please don't call us INDON ..... It's Indonesia .... or INDO .... without "N" )

Let's tell our younger brother ..... Malaysia ....
NOT TO BE USED BY ... ROYAL/SHELL to claim Ambalat and East Ambalat .....

It's SHELL who ... wants the oil there ......
Please read the history of Indo ... (not INDON !!!) ...govt gave concession to SHELL .. previously ....

Dear Malay PM ... please clear your mind .... use your eyes , ears .....
Or are you still owe something becoz the England give you Independence ...



BUT ONE THING FOR SURE .......
WE WILL DEFEND OUR LAND >>> ...

INI HARGA MATI .....

There is already some discussion going on here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=107194&goto=lastpost

Mac, cool man.
Not a single war is needed in this world. Especially between Indonesia and Malaysia, the 2 countries having the same root.
When tension cannot be avoided, the 2 leaders must sit down and talk.

Indonesia should not give any inch of land or sea to anyone . They should not bring this matter to The Hague as these people never favours Indonesia, Though I am not a Indonesian I love this country so deerly.

Satu Nusa Satu Bangsa Satu Bahasa .

Indonesia should not give any inch of land or sea to anyone . They should not bring this matter to The Hague as these people never favours Indonesia, Though I am not a Indonesian I love this country so deerly.

Satu Nusa Satu Bangsa Satu Bahasa .

I think bringing terrotorial dispute to The Hague is not about who favouring who. I'm sure The Hague consists of professionals who would look into the matter and evidence provided by both sides. It's an international court. If Malaysia loses Ambalat to Indonesia, not that we will threaten to claim back the land with military might; nor would we say the Dutch favor Indonesians. If we lose, we lose.

I understand that Indonesia has lost some territories in recent years and therefore is reacting aggressively. I only think that since all of us are living so closely to one another in this region, why not live in peace and spend more time and effort in building better life, agree? All in all, when people live well, they wouldn't shout for war easily.

I think bringing terrotorial dispute to The Hague is not about who favouring who. I'm sure The Hague consists of professionals who would look into the matter and evidence provided by both sides. It's an international court. If Malaysia loses Ambalat to Indonesia, not that we will threaten to claim back the land with military might; nor would we say the Dutch favor Indonesians. If we lose, we lose.

I understand that Indonesia has lost some territories in recent years and therefore is reacting aggressively. I only think that since all of us are living so closely to one another in this region, why not live in peace and spend more time and effort in building better life, agree? All in all, when people live well, they wouldn't shout for war easily.

suppose Indonesia brings this to The Hague and suppose Indonesia loose these islets/islands again. what comes next another so called territorial dispute ??
Indonesia is weak , the neigbours know that , Indonesian Navy/Airforce cann t compete with M'sia and S'pore. I m wondering if Suharto is still in power will these issue be an issue ???

Dang, I must have been delusional to some extent. The situation did escalate quickly.

http://www.zone-h.org/en/defacements/filter/filter_domain=my/ - Here is a list of defaced Malaysian websites. The vast majority are related to the Ambalat incident, and there are hundreds.

I think bringing terrotorial dispute to The Hague is not about who favouring who. I'm sure The Hague consists of professionals who would look into the matter and evidence provided by both sides. It's an international court. If Malaysia loses Ambalat to Indonesia, not that we will threaten to claim back the land with military might; nor would we say the Dutch favor Indonesians. If we lose, we lose.

I understand that Indonesia has lost some territories in recent years and therefore is reacting aggressively. I only think that since all of us are living so closely to one another in this region, why not live in peace and spend more time and effort in building better life, agree? All in all, when people live well, they wouldn't shout for war easily.

No ... No ....
No More ... Haque .....

After we give you the Sipadan and Ligitan ....
You just allowed to take 12 mile from there .......

You know something ... when we loose Sipadan and Ligitan ....
Actually we still can fight back .... by the DPR/MPR not ratified .. the result ....
but then what .... we have a war againts .. Malaysia ......

Now ... Ambalat ....
I tell ... you ..... It's too much ...

Ambalat ... negotiate ... diplomatics ... ambalat .. negotiate .. negotiate .....or WAR .....

We are not to loose .... any lands anymore .....

I believe if Malaysia in Indonesia Position .... They will do the same ...

Will Malaysia ... sacrifice ... the develpment of Malaysia, Indonesia, ASEAN ..... for Just ... Influenced by .... Royal/SHell ? ..

Only time will answer ...

only crazies go to War (insert Bush pic here)

suppose Indonesia brings this to The Hague and suppose Indonesia loose these islets/islands again. what comes next another so called territorial dispute ??
Indonesia is weak , the neigbours know that , Indonesian Navy/Airforce cann t compete with M'sia and S'pore. I m wondering if Suharto is still in power will these issue be an issue ???

Why would you assume that Indonesia will lose these islands again? If there are enough legal professionals from Indo to provide facts and evidence, I don't see any problem bringing the dispute to the international court. Are you saying that if Indonesia loses these islands to Malaysia at The Hague, then Indonesia should declare war on Malaysia? That's certainly a horrible thought.

No, we do not know that Indo's military is weaker than that of Malaysia or Singapore (not I for that matter). In fact I always think that Indo is the Big Brother of SEA. Even if we do know, we would not try to oppress our neighbours with military might. Malaysia and Singapore would NEVER risk their economy and prosperity for such silly things. Malaysians and Singaporeans have faced enough threats for decades and enough is enough.

Give peace a chance, please, this is my plead.

No ... No ....

Ambalat ... negotiate ... diplomatics ... ambalat .. negotiate .. negotiate .....or WAR .....

We are not to loose .... any lands anymore .....

I believe if Malaysia in Indonesia Position .... They will do the same ...

Will Malaysia ... sacrifice ... the develpment of Malaysia, Indonesia, ASEAN ..... for Just ... Influenced by .... Royal/SHell ? ..

Only time will answer ...

"or WAR"??? No, that is NEVER an option for Malaysia. Why do you keep having "war" in mind? Bear in mind this is not about separation of territories from Indonesia, this is about a territorial dispute among two countries which happen to be on oil-rich blocks where borders are vague.

No, your belief has deceived you. Malaysia will NOT do the same as what you are doing. Singapore's separation from Malaysia is a good example, it's an act of free will, and it was Malaysia who demanded Singapore to be separated to maintain peace in the Peninsula.

And No, Malaysia will not sacrifice her prosperity for a battle which can be easily prevented. Malaysia shall not be held responsible for Indonesia's or even ASEAN's economic downfall if Indonesia strikes on Malaysia.

As I said, give peace a chance. *Malaysian For Peace*

"or WAR"??? No, that is NEVER an option for Malaysia. Why do you keep having "war" in mind? Bear in mind this is not about separation of territories from Indonesia, this is about a territorial dispute among two countries which happen to be on oil-rich blocks where borders are vague.


No this is .... a land / sea belong to soveregnity of a nation .... later claim by another country ...... after .... the Haque give favor to the country .....
Please observer ... the decision from Haque


No, your belief has deceived you. Malaysia will NOT do the same as what you are doing. Singapore's separation from Malaysia is a good example, it's an act of free will, and it was Malaysia who demanded Singapore to be separated to maintain peace in the Peninsula.


Any country in world will do the SAME ... if their land/sea of it's sovereignty then later claimed by other country .... Remember falkland Island ?

If you ... compare it separation of Singapore to Malaysia .....
We also .. let the East Timor .... go based on their .... voices ....

But ... thanks to Australia ...[ Later Australia will reveal also the operation to liberate .... East Timor ..... just like what you Did in Sabah right ... ]



And No, Malaysia will not sacrifice her prosperity for a battle which can be easily prevented. Malaysia shall not be held responsible for Indonesia's or even ASEAN's economic downfall if Indonesia strikes on Malaysia.

As I said, give peace a chance. *Malaysian For Peace*

Yes ... Good and reasonable Decision ..... Neither Indonesia .....
Let' Developed ... ASEAN Together Young Brother ....

So ... Why do you suddently claim Ambalat ? We're in Peace before ....
We're in Peace when we "give" you Sipadan and Ligitan .....
( although we are deeply .... very sad inside the heart )

* Willing to defend our Land/Sea of our Sovereignity ....... " Maju Tak Gentar " *

I have to say, this issue escalated unnecessarily. Part of it, I think is because Yudhoyono is using it to shift attention from the more important and more relevant fuel hike he had just announced. And have you heard, the military is now asking for more money from the country. Please. The only two party gaining from the whole sandiwara is the goverment and the military.

Don't get huffed up over this guys. We have more important issues to deal with. Anyway, its soo absurd to go to war with Malaysia. The whole things is so surreal, how could you ever believe it? But if we do go to war, we'd have to make a special taskforce to retrieve and safe Siti Nurhaliza, hehe...

Its hard to imagine the consequences if a war did break out between Indonesia and Malaysia. it'll make South East Asia a backwater economy (even more so than the crisis), left further behind by China...the results would be disastrous!!

wanita yng aku sayangi jatuh sakit parah 2 taon lalu. Berbagai obat, rumah sakit, dokter telah dicoba. Hasil nya nihil.
Hingga 2 minggu lalu dia berobat ke penang.. Diobati dan diberi obat. Dan sekarang kondisi nya makin membaik. Sekarang lg di indo. Rencananya bulan 4 mau check up lagi.
Dah.. aku mau cerita itu aja..

wanita yng aku sayangi jatuh sakit parah 2 taon lalu. Berbagai obat, rumah sakit, dokter telah dicoba. Hasil nya nihil.
Hingga 2 minggu lalu dia berobat ke penang.. Diobati dan diberi obat. Dan sekarang kondisi nya makin membaik. Sekarang lg di indo. Rencananya bulan 4 mau check up lagi.
Dah.. aku mau cerita itu aja..

Wish her get well soon.
You must love her very much

No this is .... a land / sea belong to soveregnity of a nation .... later claim by another country ...... after .... the Haque give favor to the country .....
Please observer ... the decision from Haque *

Yeah, a land or sea belongs to the sovereignty of a nation. Malaysia is a nation with sovereignty, too. But you made it sounds like Malaysia is a barbarian who tries to snatch away your land. Bear in mind Malaysian perceive that the islands belong to Malaysia, and we, are defending our sovereignty, too, but in a peaceful way.

Any country in world will do the SAME ... if their land/sea of it's sovereignty then later claimed by other country .... Remember falkland Island ?

If you ... compare it separation of Singapore to Malaysia .....
We also .. let the East Timor .... go based on their .... voices ....

But ... thanks to Australia ...[ Later Australia will reveal also the operation to liberate .... East Timor ..... just like what you Did in Sabah right ... ]*

If you could let go of East Timor in "peace", why wouldnt you do so in other territorial disputes?

What did you mean by Malaysia had operation to liberate Sabah? Sabah joined Sarawak, Malaya and Singapore to form Malaysia as there have been agreements among the few territories. Sabah decided that it would have better future by joining Malaysia. Before Malaysia was formed in 1963, Sabah was given the rights to decide if it should become independent, or join Malaysia, or remain British, or in lesser extent, join The Philippines. Brunei was invited, too; but Brunei rejected the plan and remained British until 1984 when it became independent. Malaysia was a plan for peace although it had to faced confrontation from Indonesia & The Philippines subsequently.


Yes ... Good and reasonable Decision ..... Neither Indonesia .....
Let' Developed ... ASEAN Together Young Brother ....

So ... Why do you suddently claim Ambalat ? We're in Peace before ....
We're in Peace when we "give" you Sipadan and Ligitan .....
( although we are deeply .... very sad inside the heart )

* Willing to defend our Land/Sea of our Sovereignity ....... " Maju Tak Gentar " *

Malaysia did not "suddenly" claim Ambalat. Bear in mind that blocks are perceived belong to us. You did not "give" us Sipadan & Ligitan, neither did we "receive" Sipadan & Ligitan from you; I can only say that we managed to convince The Hague that the islands belong to us, through facts and evidence.

I have to say, this issue escalated unnecessarily. Part of it, I think is because Yudhoyono is using it to shift attention from the more important and more relevant fuel hike he had just announced. And have you heard, the military is now asking for more money from the country. Please. The only two party gaining from the whole sandiwara is the goverment and the military.

Don't get huffed up over this guys. We have more important issues to deal with. Anyway, its soo absurd to go to war with Malaysia. The whole things is so surreal, how could you ever believe it? But if we do go to war, we'd have to make a special taskforce to retrieve and safe Siti Nurhaliza, hehe...

Agree!! War is stupid.

Erm, you're a big fan of Siti arent u? :P

wanita yng aku sayangi jatuh sakit parah 2 taon lalu. Berbagai obat, rumah sakit, dokter telah dicoba. Hasil nya nihil.
Hingga 2 minggu lalu dia berobat ke penang.. Diobati dan diberi obat. Dan sekarang kondisi nya makin membaik. Sekarang lg di indo. Rencananya bulan 4 mau check up lagi.
Dah.. aku mau cerita itu aja..


Wishing her a speedy recovery :)

I have to say, this issue escalated unnecessarily. Part of it, I think is because Yudhoyono is using it to shift attention from the more important and more relevant fuel hike he had just announced. And have you heard, the military is now asking for more money from the country. Please. The only two party gaining from the whole sandiwara is the goverment and the military.

No ... almost everyone ... realized that the Subsidized should be minimized to save our 72 Trillion Rupiah Each Year .........

And In the case of Military .... NOW EVERYBODY REALIZED ... that our military is not that strong .... due to the Embargo since 1999 ...

And Now we all realize ... that we have to empower our military .... biar negara-negara lain gak SONGONG ma kita


But if we do go to war, we'd have to make a special taskforce to retrieve and safe Siti Nurhaliza, hehe...

He he he .... Setuju .... Gayang Malaysia ..!!! ... Selamatkan Siti Nurhaliza ... :) :)

wanita yng aku sayangi jatuh sakit parah 2 taon lalu. Berbagai obat, rumah sakit, dokter telah dicoba. Hasil nya nihil.
Hingga 2 minggu lalu dia berobat ke penang.. Diobati dan diberi obat. Dan sekarang kondisi nya makin membaik. Sekarang lg di indo. Rencananya bulan 4 mau check up lagi.
Dah.. aku mau cerita itu aja..

Iya betul laba-laba ...
Emang banyak yang ke malaysia dan SIngapura buat berobat .....
Ini tantangan buat dokter2 Indonesia ... yang lebih banyak Cari duit ...
bukan nya nolong dan ngobatin orang ...

Hope She get well soon ....
As you are beside her ..... that makes her get well soon .... Amien ...

Yeah, a land or sea belongs to the sovereignty of a nation. Malaysia is a nation with sovereignty, too. But you made it sounds like Malaysia is a barbarian who tries to snatch away your land. Bear in mind Malaysian perceive that the islands belong to Malaysia, and we, are defending our sovereignty, too, but in a peaceful way.


I don't say Malaysia is a barbarian ....
Emm ... Can you explain me .... about the Border of Indonesia Malaysia ... In Borneo/Kalimantan which shift to the INdonesian Land ( shift to the south )
..... Thanks to Cukong2 Malaysia ....


If you could let go of East Timor in "peace", why wouldnt you do so in other territorial disputes?


Why don't you ? .... Since .. You seems to be nice guy ... ( Malaysia is Nice contry) while I am the bad guy ( Indonesia is Bad country :-))


What did you mean by Malaysia had operation to liberate Sabah?

Not .. Malaysia ... It's Australia ...


Sabah joined Sarawak, Malaya and Singapore to form Malaysia as there have been agreements among the few territories. Sabah decided that it would have better future by joining Malaysia. Before Malaysia was formed in 1963, Sabah was given the rights to decide if it should become independent, or join Malaysia, or remain British, or in lesser extent, join The Philippines. Brunei was invited, too; but Brunei rejected the plan and remained British until 1984 when it became independent. Malaysia was a plan for peace although it had to faced confrontation from Indonesia & The Philippines subsequently.


We all know this history .... and we all know the background ....



Malaysia did not "suddenly" claim Ambalat. Bear in mind that blocks are perceived belong to us. You did not "give" us Sipadan & Ligitan, neither did we "receive" Sipadan & Ligitan from you; I can only say that we managed to convince The Hague that the islands belong to us, through facts and evidence.

en .. see carefully the decision from the Haque ... Sil Vouz Plait ... !!!

oh Ya ... please explain Us ...( once again ) ... there are many Indonesia Forummers here ......listening to you ....

How come the border between Indonesia and malaysia ... is shifting litle by litle to Indonesian Land .......?

Errr.. its 20 Km into Indonesia land already.
If I'm not mistaken, Malaysia have build a bus terminal as well there.

"wanita yng aku sayangi jatuh sakit parah 2 taon lalu. Berbagai obat, rumah sakit, dokter telah dicoba. Hasil nya nihil.
Hingga 2 minggu lalu dia berobat ke penang.. Diobati dan diberi obat. Dan sekarang kondisi nya makin membaik. Sekarang lg di indo. Rencananya bulan 4 mau check up lagi.
Dah.. aku mau cerita itu aja.."

That's true Laba-laba. Malaysian and Singaporean doctors are a lot better than the ones here. Indonesian doctors are notorious for treating you like rotten meat! Anyway, they'd probably leave a scizor or blade inside your stomach after the operation. Scary to walk in a hospital here... Doesn't make you feel safe. Haah, alas.....

"If I'm not mistaken, Malaysia have build a bus terminal as well there."

Haha, what on earth for?? Isn't it three meters below the sea?

Anyway, we'd be fighting over which multinational oil company gets the concession. Do you really want to be fighting for the sake of the likes of Shell and Amoco??

thanks all for your supports.....

He he he .... Setuju .... Gayang Malaysia ..!!! ... Selamatkan Siti Nurhaliza ... :) :)

There you go again... That's very offensive... Go on and ganyang us, if only you could.

*Give Peace A Chance, Malaysian For Peace*

I don't say Malaysia is a barbarian ....
Emm ... Can you explain me .... about the Border of Indonesia Malaysia ... In Borneo/Kalimantan which shift to the INdonesian Land ( shift to the south )
..... Thanks to Cukong2 Malaysia .... .......

Firstly, I'm not quite familiar with the facts and figures which shows that Malaysian border has moved southward. IF ONLY you could provide the facts and figures to englighten me, I would very much appreciate it :) Again, bring the facts and evidence that you have to the international court... how hard is that?

Why don't you ? .... Since .. You seems to be nice guy ... ( Malaysia is Nice contry) while I am the bad guy ( Indonesia is Bad country :-))


Not .. Malaysia ... It's Australia ...


If territories can be given to and received from another country in terms of who is better, it simply means the diplomatic system has gone insane. East Timor had a national referendum and they chose to split and their voices were taken heed of internationally. Malaysia does not have separatist movements thanks to our prosperity and peace.

Sorry if you have to feel that way, but throughout history, peace always prevails. Those who rage wars and try to crush others will only leave a black spot in world history. And I'm sure there are the sober ones in Indonesia to stop any possible war.


We all know this history .... and we all know the background ....

So I need not say more. Please respect our sovereignty and (the Indonesian press) should stop flaming the Konfrontasi history and create sentiments out of it.

en .. see carefully the decision from the Haque ... Sil Vouz Plait ... !!!

oh Ya ... please explain Us ...( once again ) ... there are many Indonesia Forummers here ......listening to you ....

How come the border between Indonesia and malaysia ... is shifting litle by litle to Indonesian Land .......?

http://www.icj-cij.org/icjwww/ipresscom/ipress2002/ipresscom2002-39_inma_20021217.htm <---- please read this report from ICJ. Obviously no favor given to Malaysia as some evidence were rejected. Merci.

As I have said, show me facts that our border has moved southward. And if you have the evidence, why don't you submit that to ICJ rather than waving your weapons at our gate?

*Malaisien pour la paix*

Macgyver> I do not wish to say this but your arguments are kinda baseless. Why feel so insecure? And also please get your facts straight before spewing out more non-sense. Thanks :)

When cases are brought to the Hague, it is judged by a panel of investigators and experts as well as representatives from each of the claimant countries.

I personally are offended by those ganyang Malaysia thing. This thread is offensive BTW and I would lock it if things gets ugly.

I am trying to be as objective as possible here ;)

Laba-laba > Best wishes to your lady! :okay: Hope she recovers well! ;)

You are trolling in the Indonesian forums and then are going so far as to say how it should be run? At what point does being offended mean a thread should be locked? If every thread that offended a person on this forum was locked, the forums would no longer exist.

You are trolling in the Indonesian forums and then are going so far as to say how it should be run? At what point does being offended mean a thread should be locked? If every thread that offended a person on this forum was locked, the forums would no longer exist.


Am I trolling? Did I in any of my post insulted Indonesia? Please point that out for the forum's sake.

If you must know....those words "Ganyang Malaysia" shouldn't be there in the first place yet I allowed it as I could see some mature discussion here. But things had gone too far since. I understand Bahasa Indonesia so please don't think I knew nothing.

Ganyang Malaysia is offensive. Having a thread saying that is offensive. Defending the namesake of this thread is offensive. And most posts by Macgyver offensive. I believe that is clear to you.

I am not pulling ranks here but how it should be run is up to the moderators. I am this forum's moderator. period. I've been nice and keep most comments to myself until recently. I wish not interfere but things have gone too far.

Please do report me to the admins if you think I am trolling here. Thanks and have a good day! :)

So we're going to play that game. I'll follow your lead and take a quick trip to the Malaysian forums. Let's see what I find:


"It seems that Indonesia is infested with low life ignorant uneducated people"

"I regret if some of my donated money went straight to their tsunami fund"

"I would never trust the Singaporeans"

I personally don't see how these comments are less offensive than what is being said by macgyver, and yet I don't see any Indonesian or Singaporean moderators going into those forums and threatening to lock/delete their threads.

You can change the title of the thread, I agree. It could be "Ambalat Crisis" or something along those lines. However, what is being said in the thread is no more offensive to Malaysians than what is being said by Malaysians about Indonesians. You are a mod so you can do whatever you want, but I think we all hope for simply fair treatment.

So we're going to play that game. I'll follow your lead and take a quick trip to the Malaysian forums. Let's see what I find:


"It seems that Indonesia is infested with low life ignorant uneducated people"

"I regret if some of my donated money went straight to their tsunami fund"

"I would never trust the Singaporeans"

I personally don't see how these comments are less offensive than what is being said by macgyver, and yet I don't see any Indonesian or Singaporean moderators going into those forums and threatening to lock/delete their threads.

You can change the title of the thread, I agree. It could be "Ambalat Crisis" or something along those lines. However, what is being said in the thread is no more offensive to Malaysians than what is being said by Malaysians about Indonesians. You are a mod so you can do whatever you want, but I think we all hope for simply fair treatment.





You are just as pathetic as some of your media choosing to report whatever that would flare up sentiments yet leaving out the crucial details. I did respond to those comments:



Hey guys (esp Hypermount & Weilene) ......cool man :cool: . I don't think we should lump the Tsunami issue with this. The Tsunami is a natural disaster which killed thousands and the Ambalat issue is a non-fatal one ( more of a face-saving one :D ) so let's just leave the humanitarian causes of the tsunami out of this ;)



Eh? Why suddently pulak drag Singapore into the picture leh? :?

and I did explain about Singapore's situation at length on the 3rd page of that thread if you care to read. :)

So please do not try to involve Singaporeans into this okay?

Alvin (sorry to bring you into this bro) had been following the thread and eveyone could see it with their own eyes that I've been very neutral and objective in that thread.



And about being fair.......you could just ask David or GreyX (or any moderator in fact) to check how many politically-bigoted threads I've personally closed, locked and deleted in the Malaysian forums. They are all still visible to the moderators. There are some which are critical of Indonesia which I immediately delete. Those threads are not allowed to see the light of another day. I allowed this particular thread simply is because it started out as an innocent question-based thread about the situation at Ambalat. If the thread turned ugly, I wouldn't hesitate to lock it.

If I am as a mod and if I am power-crazy, I would have locked this a long long time ago. But the Indonesian forums have active moderators so I respect their decision as well. I did not report this to them nor I have suggest closign this thread down but I was hoping mature postings would keep this thread alive. How wrong I was. :(

I could well lock this whenever I want because I am not just a Malaysia Forum moderator but an Indonesia Forum moderator as well wether you like it or not. A quick check at the bottom of the main page would reveal my name as a legitimate Indonesia Forum moderator. And I am a regular visitor here although I rarely post.

So please do a bit of homework before accusing me of being bias. And this is not a game. Good day! :)

I'm not Indonesian. I've never referred to it as "my country." So, I don't want you to make that connection. You think Alvin and David are good people. They are Indonesian, so you should let your opinions of them shape the way you view Indonesians as a whole. You can just hate me personally. Just for the record, I've spent a lot of time in your country, and I like it.

I'm glad that you've been nuetral in that thread.

"If I am as a mod and if I am power-crazy"

I never said you were power-crazy. I never said you were bias. And I never said it was a game. I'm sorry if you thought I was saying that.

I'm not Indonesian. I've never referred to it as "my country." So, I don't want you to make that connection. You think Alvin and David are good people. They are Indonesian, so you should let your opinions of them shape the way you view Indonesians as a whole. You can just hate me personally. Just for the record, I've spent a lot of time in your country, and I like it.

I'm glad that you've been nuetral in that thread.

"If I am as a mod and if I am power-crazy"

I never said you were power-crazy. I never said you were bias. And I never said it was a game. I'm sorry if you thought I was saying that.


Please do not get me wrong. I do not hate you. It was you whom got jumpy and start accusing me of trolling when I am just doing my job here. If I am not a moderator here you think I would care?

Just for the record, I am not paid being a moderator and the least any moderator being 'paid' in these forums is respect. I gained respect from many forumers here as well as hate from certain forumers. It is part and parcel of the job. :)

But I would like to be a well-respected one at the very least. :D

Sorry if I assumed you as an Indonesian. Thank you for clearing up whatever I've thought you accused me of. Good that you like my country. I look forward to seeing more good post from ya :okay:

Okay guys, time to break up the argument. This thread had seen quite heated arguments for a while, and in the last few posts it seems that the argument has been getting more and more personal. I don't think there should be a Moderator vs Forummer, or Forummer vs Forummer kind of personal vendettas here.

I don't wish to exert my views on things here, but here' are my 2 cents. The name of the thread, translated into Indonesian would mean "Crush Malaysia, is there a need for that?". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anything offensive about this name, since this is actually a question asking whether there is a need for such campaign. If this name is offensive, I'd agree with the two of you to change the name.

This thread will not turn ugly if the "discussion" here do not get too personal, so please, no more name-calling , k guys?

"If I'm not mistaken, Malaysia have build a bus terminal as well there."

Haha, what on earth for?? Isn't it three meters below the sea?


Oh.. I wasnt talking about Ambalat..
This is in Sabah.. where Malaysian borders has shift 20 km into Indonesian land.
This is under investigation now, but the press seem to surpress it to prevent further chaos.
From what I know, Malaysia has built a bus terminal now there.

So we're going to play that game. I'll follow your lead and take a quick trip to the Malaysian forums. Let's see what I find:

"It seems that Indonesia is infested with low life ignorant uneducated people"

"I regret if some of my donated money went straight to their tsunami fund"

"I would never trust the Singaporeans"

I personally don't see how these comments are less offensive than what is being said by macgyver, and yet I don't see any Indonesian or Singaporean moderators going into those forums and threatening to lock/delete their threads.

You can change the title of the thread, I agree. It could be "Ambalat Crisis" or something along those lines. However, what is being said in the thread is no more offensive to Malaysians than what is being said by Malaysians about Indonesians. You are a mod so you can do whatever you want, but I think we all hope for simply fair treatment.


Yup,
I agree with Yamauchi.

And, I rather to keep there kind of forum to people from the respective country. Regarding this matter, as far I can remember, I never post in other forum except Indonesian one.

IMHO (this is MY PERSONAL OPINION), when a non regular moderator/other non regular forumner join the discussion here/there, and say he might lock the thread, its look and sounds.. well.. bias. No offense pls.

I am not trying to kick someone out from this forum, you are welcome to this forum, just that this thread is really sensitive, thats all. Sometime we tried to be objective etc.. but well... I dunno lah hehehe

And no, I am not supporting any war or anything. I just want this problem to be sorted out ASAP. Clear the borders problem ASAP. Sign the documents. Black over white.

what's going on here? In briefly skimming through this hefty thread all that ia m percieving is the fact that malaysians are shoving theyre way illegaly and unjustifiably into indonesian territory, and in esssence, agressively taking possession of indonesian islands. HOwever, i am not sure if i have my facts straight so would anyone care to correct me if im wrong?

I don't wish to exert my views on things here, but here' are my 2 cents. The name of the thread, translated into Indonesian would mean "Crush Malaysia, is there a need for that?". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anything offensive about this name, since this is actually a question asking whether there is a need for such campaign. If this name is offensive, I'd agree with the two of you to change the name.





Thanks for being understanding and promoting peace here. Personal attacks is the last thing I would like to see flared up here. :okay:


Yes......while the meaning of the entire thread title is harmless, it is the message behind the words 'Ganyang Malaysia'. These two words are pretty sensitive as it is used by the previous regime to literally 'crush' Malaysia.

The campaign is a chapter in history so there isn't a need to revived such campaign name which is offensive. Not only I find it offensive but I've got PMs from Malaysian forumers complaining the revival of such name esp as a thread title. I've explained that there is no harm thus no action is taken for its removal. Am I being liberal enuf? I wouldn't personally rename this thread since my reputation had been tainted and questioned here. And it doesn't help that I am a Malaysian.

Like I've mentioned before, it is not all about the title alone. It is the whole package that comes with it. I only stepped in when Macgyver seems to get too heated by his patriotic stance that seemed to blind him from reality. Don't get me wrong as there is nothing wrong by being patriotic.....but there are things that should be done in moderation and let us all not be blinded by our causes. We must look at both sides of the argument objectively first before jumping into conclusion. That has always been what I've championed for.

I did not in anyway hated any Indonesian forumers. In fact I am eternally grateful that this forum had been peaceful under Grey X and my care since its inception. This is the FIRST time I could see trouble boiling in this forum and like I've said before - I am just doing my job. Now that David had join the moderation team, I am just popping in periodically to check on things and to help him to moderate.

IMHO (this is MY PERSONAL OPINION), when a non regular moderator/other non regular forumner join the discussion here/there, and say he might lock the thread, its look and sounds.. well.. bias. No offense pls.




I know you dun mean harm....but no matter how personal your opinion is - I am still offended because simply all your fingers are pointing at me. I know it is not your intention to offend anyone here but by pointing your fingers at me, my reputation is at stake.

I did not join in the discussion if you notice. I just stepped in and said that this thread had gone too far. As far as I could see, Lastresorter is being objective as he tried explaning things. He even tried to maintain peace here. It was Macgyver whom kept making insidious remarks that reeks bigoted and unbalanced views.

To say I am a non regular forumer here is grossly unjustified. I am a regular visitor here although I hardly post. I am the moderator of this forum since its inception so I've been here since day one. And if I did not pop by regularly I wouldn't have known bout this thread would I?

I did not even participate in Malaysia's Ambalat issue thread except for a brief explanation on Singapore as I am both the moderator of Indonesian and Malaysian forums and it would be difficult for me to manage should there be any trouble. Seems that my neutral stance been questioned as well ....sigh :ohno:

It is just unfortunate that I am a Malaysian mod therefore my actions here are judged based on my nationality. :(

I am not that happy about it. But if all Indonesian forumers wanted as such then I have nothing to say except to leave this thread to the hands of a true-blooded Indonesian mod. Thus I would get my bloody hands off this issue and moderate those less intimidating threads.

what's going on here? In briefly skimming through this hefty thread all that ia m percieving is the fact that malaysians are shoving theyre way illegaly and unjustifiably into indonesian territory, and in esssence, agressively taking possession of indonesian islands. HOwever, i am not sure if i have my facts straight so would anyone care to correct me if im wrong?


Well that is what is being portrayed by the Indonesian media but I can't answer you that as my authority here are seriously being questioned. However I would like any Indonesian here to answer this as OBJECTIVELY and as NEUTRAL as possible. Please do some homework on BOTH sides before ANSWERING or else there might be a backlash.

Thank you. :)

Yup,
I agree with Yamauchi.

And, I rather to keep there kind of forum to people from the respective country. Regarding this matter, as far I can remember, I never post in other forum except Indonesian one.





........ yet I don't see any Indonesian or Singaporean moderators going into those forums and threatening to lock/delete their threads.


Well.......I am not nosy or anything but I am an Indonesia Forum moderator to begin with. There isn't any Indonesian or Singaporen moderators in the Malaysia Forums to lock/delete threads. To give you an example, I can't just venture into the Thai or the Philippines forum to lock and delete threads. A mod power is limited to his/her own forum and mine is Malaysia and Indonesia. BTW GreyX is a Pinoy and he is a Malaysia Forum Moderator as well.

When I moderate I put my nationality aside. Unfortunately many insecure forumers like to play the nationality card and my actions seems blinded by it :ohno:

I don't think this debate is going anywhere...lets drop the subject and make up :kiss:

Yep, looking at the situation above, this is not going anywhere.
No more comment from me :)

Thank you guys! :grouphug:

I have been watching this thread quite sometimes, the reason i dont lock it as because i havent seen any bad words flaming or racist comments from any of the respective members, be it malaysian or Indonesian. But if the situation goes like that, i wont be hesitate to lock this thread.

I think the topic of this thread goes like this. "Crush Malaysia, is it necessary? " So i dont the topic is offensive if you understand the meaning of it.

Anyway, Glad its over. lets back on topic. :cheers:


Cheers

Ahhh... thats what we call the art of negotiation... :) Peace to all~

I have been watching this thread quite sometimes, the reason i dont lock it as because i havent seen any bad words flaming or racist comments from any of the respective members, be it malaysian or Indonesian. But if the situation goes like that, i wont be hesitate to lock this thread.

I think the topic of this thread goes like this. "Crush Malaysia, is it necessary? " So i dont the topic is offensive if you understand the meaning of it.

Anyway, Glad its over. lets back on topic. :cheers:


Cheers




Thanks for those very diplomatic words :okay:

I do understand what the topic is like as Bahasa Malaysia goes the same way as well. However my opinion of the thread title is explained in post #39. And what I said is similar to what you had said ..... "IF things gets ugly I would not hesitate to lock the thread". Sounds harmless unless you're the criminal. I believe I did not say anything wrong and some people gets jumpy as they saw this as some kind of a threat. :lol:

There is a Malay saying: "Siapa yang makan cili dialah yang rasa pedas." ;)

There is a Malay saying: "Siapa yang makan cili dialah yang rasa pedas." ;)

you call chilly "cili" in malay? We call it "cabe" in Indonesian..hehehe

Crush Malaysia, whose agenda?
Dandhy Dwi Laksono, Jakarta

It is almost undeniable that the call for confrontation with Malaysia launched by president Sukarno from January 1963 to May 1966 was nothing more than an attempt to save the face of a muddled domestic policy. Moreover, the military strength was split, particularly after 1965. By creating a common enemy abroad, Sukarno hoped he could maintain the loyalty of his generals.

Worse still, the national economy at that time was virtually on the brink of collapse, which undermined the image of confrontation with Malaysia as a patriotic political mission.

What is happening today is like history repeating itself. The general public believes that the issue of the fuel price increase is behind the Ambalat territorial dispute. This is only party true.

The viewpoint that there has been a shifting of the issue in fact refers to the reporting in the mass media of a certain topic. Though not impossible, it is hard to imagine an unpopular government launching a guerrilla operation from one editorial office to another to seek a change in reporting from fuel prices to Ambalat.

Indeed, only two days after President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono decided to raise fuel prices, newspapers began to change their front-page headlines and pictures. But this represented "market demand" rather than political design.

Reducing the Ambalat dispute to a mere shifting of the fuel price hike theme is basically a departure from a bigger political perspective. Several issues are worth examining: first, the connection between Ambalat and the leadership succession within the Indonesian Military (TNI); second, the defense budget and military expenditure agenda; and third, the Aceh and Papua political agenda.

It is common knowledge that the TNI commander's position will soon be contested by the three chiefs of staff of the military forces. Gen. Endriartono Sutarto (graduate of the Armed Forces Academy/Akabri, 1971), now still TNI commander, has had his term extended twice and has twice offered his resignation. Originally, in theory then Army chief of staff Gen. Ryamizard Ryacudu (Akabri 1973) had the biggest chance of occupying the post, as former president Megawati Soekarnoputri had wished.

President Yudhoyono, however, was not so keen on appointing Gen. Ryamizard, widely known for his ultra-nationalist slant.

Meanwhile, it is impossible to name other generals because pursuant to the law, the office of TNI commander can only be held by those already holding the position of chief of staff of the Army, Navy or Air Force.

President Yudhoyono installed in February new chiefs of staff: Vice Admiral Slamet Soebijanto (Akabri 1973) for the Navy, Vice Marshal Djoko Suyanto (Akabri 1973) for the Air Force and Lieut. Gen. Djoko Santoso (Akabri 1975) for the Army.

The President retained Gen. Endriartono Sutarto, 58 as TNI commander. This move was already seen as his intention to have one of the new staff chiefs as TNI commander instead of appointing Gen. Ryamizard, 55, who just retired as Army chief.

Therefore, these factors make it hard to deny the tight rivalry between the three staff chiefs in spite of the prediction that President Susilo will carry on the tradition of Army men serving as military commander. Without the Ambalat dispute, the Army's chance would be even greater because the Aceh problem could also be used as a card for bargaining between the military elite and political authorities.

It is also hard to reject the fact that the offshore location of Ambalat has enhanced the bargaining position of the Navy and the Air Force. Furthermore, both the chiefs of staff are two years senior to Army chief Lieut. Gen. Djoko Santoso, though all of them have the three-starred rank.

The Army is actually a bit awkward in the face of the Ambalat conflict, because the area is the domain of the Air Force and especially the Navy.

In this way, if the Ambalat conflict continues until the time when the TNI commander has to be replaced, the chances of the three chiefs of staff of assuming the top military post would be more or less equal.

The other dimension to the Ambalat issue is an increase in the defense budget and military expenditure. Gen. Endriartono himself openly acknowledged this while on board a plane taking him to East Kalimantan on March 9.

The defense budget rose from Rp 11.53 trillion (US$1.2 billion) in 2003 to Rp 13.2 trillion in 2004. Aceh served as the main argument for the higher allocation, besides martial law and civil emergency funds estimated to consume over Rp 5 trillion.

Even before the Ambalat dispute, for the 2005 fiscal year the ceiling for the defense ministry and the TNI Headquarters was already pushed up to Rp 22 trillion from the Rp 45 trillion originally demanded. With the mounting Ambalat tension, a revision of the defense appropriation is likely.

Then, how much will the defense ministry and TNI request for 2006? The ministry puts it at Rp 56 trillion. This amount is triple the value of fuel subsidies cut on March 1.

One can bet that if legislators are now asked about the military budget increase in the context of Ambalat, they will generally give good news to the ministry and TNI.

Records have indicated that conflict escalation is always directly proportional to a military budget hike. When the emergency status was extended in Aceh, the House approved a 15 percent budget increase from 2003 to 2004. It was a moderate rate in view of the non-state enemy threat like the Free Aceh Movement.

The Ambalat friction will obviously prompt military budget lobbyists to break the House resistance as the last bastion of public funds. It is now evident that the Ambalat (or crush Malaysia) issue is not only "enjoyed" by pro-fuel-price-hike protagonists but also involves a broader spectrum of interests.

The writer is a journalist, residing in Jakarta.

psl ni??

you guys are simply pathetic,immature and barbaric..no offense but still this is the truth...

Unfortunately you're not entirely mistaken. But not all of us are like that you know. :)

I say Kudos to All the Malaysian that have ever visited Indonesia..IMO there better..

Yes we understand the situation in our country; you don't need to remind us
but look at your own garden...isn't a damn mess too??
fix ur own garden b4 u barge into ours

MOTION TO DELETION PLSKTHX

Yep, this thread is locked.