Why Indonesia doesn't recognize dual citizenship?

[van-tbird]

I'm so pissed with Indonesian Government. I think Indonesia is the only country in Asia who doesn't recognize dual citizenship.
My parents originally came from Indonesia, and moved to Canada years ago.
Since I have lived for years in Canada, I have a Canadian Citizenship. However, when I tried to go to Indonesia and applied for Indonesian passport, they said that even if my parents are Indonesian native, it doesn't mean I'm eligible for Indonesian Citizenship.
I love Indonesia and really want to stay and live there, but since I was denied Indonesian Citizenship, I can't stay in Indonesia for more than 90 days.
This is not fair to me. Any other countries in the world have policy that if you were born from a parent from that country, you're automatically entitled to your parent citizenship. Why can't they do that in Indonesia?
Any thoughts?

FYI, Both of my parents is Canadians right now. They never renounced their Indonesian citizenship, but I guess if you're citizen of another country, you'll lose your Indonesian citizenship automatically.

[Alvin]

really? I would've thought that most countries don't recognise dual citizenship. Do your parents possess Canadian or Indonesian citizenships?

[ryanr]

Really? I thought Indonesians can be dual citizens?

[Ara]

I think Indonesia is the only country in Asia who doesn't recognize dual citizenship.
In correct sir. Malaysia, Singapore and China also does not allow Dual Citizenship.

ASEAN countries that does not allow dual citizenship:
Brunei
Indonesia
Malaysia
Philippines
Singapore
Thailand
Vietnam

[tata]

My question is, is there ANY Asian country allow dual citizenship? I have a Japanese friend who live in France told me she can't be dual nationality either.

[Ara]

My question is, is there ANY Asian country allow dual citizenship? I have a Japanese friend who live in France told me she can't be dual nationality either.
India offers Dual citizenship. The legislation was passed last year. Not sure about other countries in Asia though.

[Solblanc]

well, if you love Indonesia that much, then renouncing your Canadian citizenship shouldn't be too difficult, right?

Most countries don't allow dual citizenship for a variety of reasons. While a lot of people would be willing to accept the privileges of two citizenships, such as the right to own land, stay, vote, there are responsibilities that have to be addressed. For example, there's the case of military service. Would anyone be willing to go through two of those in different countries? There are taxes, too. It would be really inconvenient to pay taxes to two states simultaneously.

Btw, your citizenship is determined by the laws of where you were born. Canada confers citizenship upon those born there. If Canada followed jus sanguine, then you'd most probably still be indonesian.

[Yamauchi]

Most industrialised countries such as Canada and the USA do not recognize so-called citizenship renunciation.

[FK]

My question is, is there ANY Asian country allow dual citizenship?

Pakistan, India allow Dual Citizenships.

I'm a Canadian and a Pakistani citizen ;)

[van-tbird]

well, if you love Indonesia that much, then renouncing your Canadian citizenship shouldn't be too difficult, right?

Most countries don't allow dual citizenship for a variety of reasons. While a lot of people would be willing to accept the privileges of two citizenships, such as the right to own land, stay, vote, there are responsibilities that have to be addressed. For example, there's the case of military service. Would anyone be willing to go through two of those in different countries? There are taxes, too. It would be really inconvenient to pay taxes to two states simultaneously.

Btw, your citizenship is determined by the laws of where you were born. Canada confers citizenship upon those born there. If Canada followed jus sanguine, then you'd most probably still be indonesian.

I wish I could renounce my Canadian citizenship that easy. Most of my family now live in Canada. It's not fun that you have to apply for visa if you want to see your mom.
I don't think Canada followed jus sanguine. You're entitled to Canadian citizenship if you're born to Canadian citizen. It doesn't matter where you're born.
I'm just dissatisfied because all of my friends from India, Pakistan, China or other countries in America and Europe can have dual citizenship.
I mean, this is 21st century, this is the world without boundary. What's wrong with dual citizenship? You can take a look at India. India is the hottest growing economy right now, because India can attract Indian-American to invest back in India. I think if a country allows dual citizenship, it will have positive effects for both countries.

[Ara]

I'm just dissatisfied because all of my friends from India, Pakistan, China or other countries in America and Europe can have dual citizenship
Actually, Chinese citizens are not allowed to have dual citizenship.

[tata]

Actually, Chinese citizens are not allowed to have dual citizenship.

Even though not allowed, I know some Indonesians having 2 passports ;) I was tempted to apply for French nationality years ago when I lived there without renouncing my Indonesian nationality of course, but was too lazy to go through all administration.
Anyway, If they can, why can't you?

[Alvin]

My question is, is there ANY Asian country allow dual citizenship? I have a Japanese friend who live in France told me she can't be dual nationality either.

Hongkong SAR recognises dual citizenship. Nearly all of my friends from Hongkong have both Hongkong and Australian passports. Lucky.

[Alvin]

Actually, Chinese citizens are not allowed to have dual citizenship.

I heard this may change soon...

[Ara]

Found this article. It's a year old, so I'm not sure where the revision is currently.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Saturday, June 26, 2004

Kurniawan Hari, Jakarta

American researcher and analyst on good governance Sidney Jones in May sent an e-mail to her Indonesian colleague senior journalist Goenawan Mohamad that if U.S. President George W. Bush were to be reelected in November, she would become an Indonesian citizen.

She is, however, unlikely to keep her word, given that she was deported from the country.

Indonesian law allows foreigners to apply for citizenship with some conditions, including the length of stay of the applicant in the country.

The existing citizenship Law No. 62/1958 states that foreigners can apply for Indonesian citizenship if they have been living in the country for a consecutive period of at least five years, or 10 years not consecutively.

Legislators, however, recently submitted a draft revision of the citizenship law. The draft, among other things, increases the mandatory length of stay to 15 years.

Under the existing law, Jones may be eligible for citizenship.

Article 8 of the draft revision says that foreigners must have been living in Indonesia for a consecutive term of at least 15 years, or 20 years not consecutively, before they can apply for citizenship.

Besides which, the foreigner must speak Bahasa Indonesia fluently and have sufficient knowledge of Indonesia's Constitution and history.

The foreigner must not have committed any crime that is punishable with a minimum of one year in prison in Indonesia. Most importantly, they must have a permanent job and income.

The draft revision also suggests that the application be submitted to the President via the justice minister, while the existing citizenship law says it is enough to submit the application to the minister via a district court.

The President must decide whether to approve the application within three months after the request is made.

The existing citizenship law adopts universal principles: First, the state has the ultimate right to determine who can be granted citizenship, and who will lose it; second, the state cannot interfere with the citizenship regulations of other countries; and third, citizenship must be granted based on certain criteria.

In addition, the law also adopts two other principles from which citizenship is determined.

The first principle, ius sanguinis (law of the blood), states that a person's citizenship, regardless of where they were born, is dependent upon the citizenship of their parents.

The second principle, ius soli (law of the soil), determines citizenship on a person's birthplace.

The citizenship law is designed to prevent apatride (stateless) or bipatride (dual citizenship). Indonesian regulations recognize neither apatride nor bipatride citizenship.

In an attempt to prevent dual citizenship, the draft revision includes new regulations.

It states that an infant whose father is a foreign citizen and mother is an Indonesian can obtain Indonesian citizenship if it is the wish of their parents. This citizenship, however, must not cause dual citizenship.

A child born overseas to an Indonesian couple can be an Indonesian citizen at the request of their parents. A request for citizenship must be submitted to the Indonesian embassy no later than three months after the child's birth, the draft revision says.

A foreign child aged below 21 and unmarried, who is adopted by an Indonesian, will be eligible for Indonesian citizenship if the process does not cause dual citizenship.

Foreigners who contribute to Indonesia -- or for a specific reason -- can be granted Indonesian citizenship by the President with the consent of the House of Representatives.

Indonesian citizens can lose their nationality on certain conditions, including if they join the military service of another country, or live overseas for a consecutive period of five years without declaring their will to remain an Indonesian national.

An Indonesian woman can lose her citizenship if she marries a foreigner whose country applies a law that obliges a woman to follow the citizenship of her husband.

Indonesian citizenship is given to:

1. A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian couple;
2. A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian man and foreign woman -- the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
3. A child born of the marriage of a foreign man and Indonesian woman, both of whom request Indonesian citizenship for their child -- the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
4. A child born to an unmarried Indonesian woman, the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
5. A child born in Indonesian territory that is not provided with citizenship by his or her parents;
6. A child born in Indonesian territory whose parents are unknown;
7. A child born in Indonesian territory whose parents have no citizenship.

Source: Draft revision of citizenship law No. 62/1958
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's ridiculous that the years is extended from 5 to 15 years. IT was fine the way it was when it come to obtaining citizenship. I smell xenophobia.

[sanhen]

Indonesian citizens can lose their nationality on certain conditions, including if they join the military service of another country, or live overseas for a consecutive period of five years without declaring their will to remain an Indonesian national.

To those that interested. I checked with Indonesia Embassy here, and they said this simply means: renewing your Indonesian passport.

[ryanr]

In correct sir. Malaysia, Singapore and China also does not allow Dual Citizenship.

ASEAN countries that does not allow dual citizenship:
Brunei
Indonesia
Malaysia
Philippines
Singapore
Thailand
Vietnam

Actually, the Philippines allows dual citizenship. In a few years time, i will have dual citizenship - Philippines & Canada.

[tata]

Pakistan also allows dual nationality

[JAG2]

I wish I could have 2 nationalities too.one Dutch and the other one Indonesian. But what s the benifit of having a Indonesian pasport > being a Dutch national I don t need visa for many countries so I can travel easily around the world. But being a Indonesian national , the only benifit is imo owing a propierty .

[tata]

Dual citizenship in the making?

House to propose new bill on citizenship

Tony Hotland, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

After years of delay, the House of Representatives legislation committee will propose a new bill on citizenship, which aims to eliminate discriminatory articles under the current problematic law.

Legislation committee chairman Muhammad A.S. Hikam said a new law was important because the existing Law No. 62/1958 was no longer appropriate at a time when democracy and equality should reign.

"There are still discriminatory items in the existing law, especially those on foreigners wishing to become Indonesian citizens as well as on former political prisoners," he said on Saturday.

Hikam, also a member of House Commission I on defense and foreign affairs, further said a law on citizenship must not be restricted only to matters of citizenship, but also embody the basic civil rights that come with citizenship.

"It's more fundamental than simply determining the status of someone or the implications of marrying foreigners. If we're going to talk only about status, we have a law on civil records. It needs to be seen as a law to protect citizens' basic rights," he said.

Legislation committee member, Nursjahbani Katjasungkana, said she would push for the inclusion of dual citizenship in the new law as it would indeed bring substantial benefit for the country in terms of better quality human resources as overseas-educated children of mixed parents could come here without the legal barrier of their citizenship.

"Most modern countries are applying it as it makes it easier for mixed parents and their offspring to use facilities in the two countries in question.

This is also to cut all the red tape and erase problems that mixed parents face because of the uncertain status of their children," she said.

Nursjahbani said children of an Indonesian woman married to an expatriate should be entitled to the right to vote and also be exempted from the requirement to possess stay or work permits.

"Moreover, an expatriate wife of an Indonesian man should also be allowed to work," she added.

She said the purpose would be to erase as much as possible all discriminatory items in the existing law -- especially those regarding women and children.

However, Nursjahbani disagreed with her fellow legislator Hikam, saying the articles concerning basic civil rights were already accommodated in the Constitution itself.

"This is a matter of the status of a citizen, about obtaining or losing it. The Constitution already stipulates that basic civil rights are guaranteed," she said.

She also said challenges to a more democratic and flexible law on citizenship would likely come from those with little understanding of nationalism.

A bill to replace the existing law was actually drafted by legislators during the previous term, but was never deliberated.

The legislation committee is scheduled to bring the draft as a House-sponsored bill to a plenary session on Tuesday.

If the House agrees to adopt the bill, the legislation committee will set up a working committee and produce a new draft to be deliberated later with the government.

[sanhen]

Yes, so do I.
I want TWO.

[David-80]

Dual citizenship is good for our footballers in Indonesian league. So Indonesia can have brazilian or chile players playing for Indonesia national team :D

cheers

[Ara]

Any words on the dual citizenship legislation?

[tata]

Dual citizenship is good for our footballers in Indonesian league. So Indonesia can have brazilian or chile players playing for Indonesia national team :D

cheers

:rofl: :rofl:

[sanhen]

Anyone can give a link or post the draft for this draft?
I been trying to search for it but no luck.

[Ara]

Any words on the proposed legislation?

[sanhen]

ooooo plz pass the law.. pass the law.. hehehe :)

[firmanhadi]

Dual citizenship in the making?

House to propose new bill on citizenship

Tony Hotland, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

What date is this article. Is this a recent initiative? I hope they pass this sensible law.

[tata]

What date is this article. Is this a recent initiative? I hope they pass this sensible law.

Around June 2005.

[tata]

sumber: www.suarapembaruan.com 24 okt 2005

DPR Diminta Pertimbangan Dwi Kewarganegaraan

JAKARTA - Sejumlah wanita Indonesia yang menikah dengan pria berkewarganegaraan asing meminta DPR untuk mempertimbangkan pemberian dwi kewarganegaraan kepada anak yang mereka lahirkan. Karena selama ini anak yang mereka lahirkan seringkali mendapat kesulitan bahkan dideportasi dan terpisah dari ibu yang melahirkannya dan menjadi stateless (tidak mempunyai kewarganegaraan).

Hal itu mengemuka dalam diskusi bertajuk "Hubungan Hukum Yang Bermartabat bagi Pasangan Nikah WNI-WNA: Mengantisipasi RUU Kewarganegaraan" di Jakarta Sabtu (22/10) lalu. Pembicara dalam diskusi itu adalah Hakim Agung dari Mahkamah Agung Valerine JLK, Ketua Panitia Khusus RUU Kewarganegaraan Slamet Effendi Yusuf, Pengajar Filsafat Universitas Indonesia Gadis Arivia, Direktur LBH Apik Ratna Batara Munti dengan moderator Effendi Ghazali. Selain itu, ada dua perempuan yang menikah dengan pria asing yaitu Alida Handu Lampe Guyer (dia menikah dengan pria asal Swiss) dan Nuning Hallet yang menikah dengan pria asal Amerika Serikat. Hadir juga sebagai peserta seminar artis Sofia Latjuba yang menikah dengan pria asing.

Berdasarkan pengalaman Alida Handu Lampe Guyer dan Nuning Hallet, Undang-Undang (UU) Indonesia sangat tidak memihak wanita Indonesia dan anak-anak yang mereka lahirkan. Selain itu, menurut Alida, aturan-aturan dalam bidang kewarganegaraan Indonesia sangat menyulitkan Warga Negara Asing yang mau tinggal di Indonesia. Hal itu berbeda jauh bila dibandingkan dengan negara-negara lain.

Sedangkan Slamet Effendi Yusuf mengatakan, RUU Kewarganegaraan itu adalah usul inisiatif DPR. Karena saat ini Indonesia masih menggunakan UU tentang kewarganegaraan yang dibuat tahun 1958. Padahal konteks 1958 dengan sekarang sangat jauh berbeda. Karena itu diperlukan sebuah UU yang baru. (A-21)

[jaystar]

in germany we dont get dual citizenship!!!!!

[tata]

in germany we dont get dual citizenship!!!!!

can't a german be a Canadian or a Swiss citizen on the same time?

[jaystar]

nope....
6years ago a german can get dual citizans but now it isnt so...

because you can fool the governmant easily

[jaystar]

i think the most of modern country dont allow dual citizenship.....

like the most of eu countries......

[tata]

Jay, as far as my knowledge EU countries DO allow dual citinzenship. However there's no point of keeping dual citizenship between 2 EU state member for instance Italian and French since they are both EU members (even though some people do).

Meanwhile, news for Indonesians:

http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailheadlines.asp?fileid=20060208.@02&irec=1

Bill may lead way for dual citizenship
Muninggar Sri Saraswati, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

Couples in transnational marriages have reason to hope one of their most pressing problems, the citizenship of their children, will be resolved as lawmakers consider the possibility of "limited dual citizenship".

A working committee of the House of Representatives will discuss limited dual citizenship, along with several other contentious articles in the citizenship bill that has landed before the House.

Legislator Slamet Effendy Yusuf said the working committee would begin discussing the articles Wednesday, as it follows up on the work of an interfactional team that unanimously agreed to include limited dual citizenship among the articles for discussion.

"It's a breakthrough because our existing citizenship law, which was passed in 1958, does not recognize the idea," he said.

Slamet, who chaired the interfactional team, said dual citizenship may be allowed for children of couples of different nationalities, as well as for children of Indonesian couples born in countries that apply the principle of ius soli ("right of the soil"). Countries that apply ius soli, such as the United States, automatically give citizenship to any baby born in the country.

Indonesia follows the principle of ius sanguinis ("right of the blood"), which means babies born here automatically receive the citizenship of their fathers.

In practice, this means Indonesian women married to foreign nationals cannot pass their citizenship on to their children. For many transnational couples in the country, this restriction adds to the expenses and complications of raising a child here.

Slamet said the House and the government recognized these difficulties and wanted to address them.

"There are lots of problems with the custody of children of transnational marriages if the parents divorce. Indonesian mothers can be accused of kidnapping their own children if they insist on raising the children here," Slamet said.

The legislator said dual citizenship would also benefit the children of Indonesian couples born abroad.

"Some developed countries do a very good job of protecting children. We think it is good for (Indonesian) children to pursue better education, health and other opportunities in foreign countries," he said.

However, Slamet said any dual citizenship would be limited, with the children eventually having to choose one citizenship once they reached a certain age. The working committee will decide the age limit.

"Some have suggested 16 years old, others 18. Some foreigners have asked for 23 years old. We don't know yet, but it may be 18, in accordance with the definition of children in the Child Protection Law," Slamet said.

The citizenship bill also would allow Indonesian women married to foreign nationals whose countries rule that a woman's citizenship automatically follows that of her husband, to maintain their Indonesian citizenship. However, they would be required to file a formal request with the relevant agency.

Transnational couples and women's organizations have closely followed the deliberation of the citizenship bill, and have been active in providing information and suggestions to legislators. They are eager to see the old citizenship law, which they consider unfair to people involved in transnational marriages, particularly Indonesian women married to foreign nationals, replaced by a law they consider more equitable.

[Alvin]

Indonesia Siap Lakukan Revolusi UU Kewarganegaraan

Washington, 1 Maret 2006 16:06
Pemerintah Indonesia siap melakukan perubahan besar-besaran atas Undang Undang Kewarganegaraan, agar seusai dengan situasi saat ini.

"Kami akan membuat suatu revolusi dalam UU kewarganegaraan kita," kata Menteri Hukum dan HAM Hamid Awalluddin, saat berkunjung ke Washington DC, Selasa (Rabu WIB).

Saat berdiskusi dengan masyarakat Indonesia di KBRI Washington DC, Hamid mengatakan bahwa banyak hal-hal yang ganjil dalam UU Kewarganegaraan yang berlaku sekarang.

"UU tahun 1958 yang masih kita pakai ini dulunya dibuat dengan pendekatan keamanan semata," kata Hamid dalam acara yang dipandu Dubes RI untuk Washington DC Sudjadnan Parnohadiningrat.

Sekarang, tambahnya, cara berpikir untuk landasan hukum kewarganegaraan ini harus berubah, bukan hanya mempertimbangkan keamanan tapi juga fleksibilitas dan bisa memutar roda perekonomian.

Dia mencontohkan saat ini seorang wanita Indonesia yang menikah dengan orang asing, maka ia dan anaknya ikut warga negara ayahnya. Kemudian jika mereka ingin memperpanjang visa Indonesia, mereka harus ke luar negeri dulu untuk memperpanjangnya agar dapat masuk lagi.

Nantinya, kata Hamid, anak dari ayah yang warga asing itu bisa menjadi warga negara asing atau WNI sampai ia harus menentukan pilihannya sendiri pada usia 18 tahun.

Perpanjangan visa nantinya bisa dilakukan di dalam negeri.

"Demikian juga orang asing yang membawa investasi ke Indonesia, bisa kita kasih langsung sebagai permanent resident (penduduk tetap) untuk menarik mereka dalam menanam modalnya," katanya.

Rencana Departemen Hukum dan HAM tersebut sudah dibicarakan dengan DPR.

Revolusi lainnya dalam bidang keimigrasian tersebut adalah dalam pembuatan paspor.

"Paspor kita sekarang banyak dipalsukan di mana-mana, bahkan ada orang yang punya empat atau lima paspor. Ini antara lain karena orang mudah dapat KTP," ujarnya.

Kini sudah mulai diperkenalkan paspor dengan cara on-line dengan identitas dari sidik jari. "Dengan demikian sulit untuk dipalsukan lagi, dan orang yang punya identitas palsu bisa langsung ketahuan dan kita tangkap," ujarnya.

Kebijakan imigrasi lainnya adalah memberi paspor kepada orang-orang Indonesia yang sudah puluhan tahun tinggal di Malaysia tanpa paspor.

Ada 200.000 orang Indonesia yang tidak punya dokumen keimigrasian karena dokumennya hilang atau sebab lainnya. "Filosofi kewarganegaraan kita adalah tidak boleh ada orang yang stateless atau tanpa kewarganegaraan, oleh sebab itulah mereka kita beri paspor, tentunya tetap ada proses yang perlu dilalui," katanya.

Kebijakan yang sama akan dilakukan kepada warga Indonesia yang berada di Arab Saudi.

"Pekan ini saya juga akan ke Arab Saudi, karena saya dengar banyak juga warga kita yang tidak punya identitas, sehingga sulit untuk pulang ke Tanah Air," kata Hamid Awalluddin.

Hamid Awalluddin datang ke Washington DC atas undangan Jaksa Agung AS Alberto Gonzales.

"Kami berbicara mengenai HAM dan soal keimigrasian. Ada keseriusan pemerintah AS untuk membentuk suatu working group dalam rangka perjanjian untuk saling membantu," katanya. [TMA, Ant]

[tata]

Indonesia Siap Lakukan Revolusi UU Kewarganegaraan

Washington, 1 Maret 2006 16:06
Pemerintah Indonesia siap melakukan perubahan besar-besaran atas Undang Undang Kewarganegaraan, agar seusai dengan situasi saat ini.


diberita bbrp waktu lalu dibilang kalo orang Indonesia yg lahir di negera lain yg menganut sistem right of land kemungkinan bisa pegan dua warga negara --Indonesia dan satu lagi negara tempat lahir.

Diberita yg baru, poin ini gak disebut lagi.

[Alvin]

Indonesia to relax rules on citizenship



The Indonesian House of Representatives and the government have agreed to ease procedures for people from other countries to acquire Indonesian citizenship or permanent resident status, local media reported Saturday.

"Basically, we agreed to ease the procedures for foreigners who believe they are entitled to Indonesian citizenship or permanent resident status," legislator Boy. W. Saul of the Democrat Party was quoted by the Jakarta Post as saying.

The move is expected to boost foreign investment to Indonesia, the legislator said.

Legislator Bomer Pasaribu of the Golkar Party said that the people affected by the regulation would be "those who can improve the country such as researchers or investors."

"To get Indonesian citizenship, they are required to have permanent resident status first, just like other countries," he said.

Foreigners who are married to Indonesians can be "given a chance" to get the status regardless of gender, he added.

The existing law does not allow an Indonesian woman to sponsor a non-Indonesian husband for permanent resident status. At present, foreigners can only be sponsored by companies that employ them here.

Permanent resident status only lasts for five years and is subject to extension.

Non-Indonesians can only apply for permanent resident status five years after they are given a limited stay permit.

Justice Minister Hamid Awaluddin said that the government has made a "breakthrough" for foreign residents, so that they can enter and stay in the country. He added that it is done in a bid to woo investors.

Source: Xinhua

[Zorobabel]

Wow, awesome.