continue conversation here.

Ooo!! I get the first reply!! :banana:

Some of the developers who responded to Quarles & Brady's request for proposals will continue to push their plans, even though the law firm has decided not to seek out a new building. Since Quarles & Brady backed out, those developers say they remain unaffected by the decision, and are searching for other possible anchor tenants who could turn their proposals into realities.

Plans for a sister tower to the US Bank Center are still very very preliminary. US Bank officials note that the proposed tower was not reliant on Quarles & Brady being its anchor tenant, although they could have helped jump start the process. The 42-story sister tower is proposed for a site just south of the existing tower, and could include 20-plus floors of condominiums and 250,000 square feet of office space.

Developers Richard Levine and Gary Janko's proposal was for a 17-story building on the 300 block of E. Wisconsin Avenue. It would contain 250,000 square feet of office, 20,000 square feet of retail, and 500 parking spaces. Another possibility would be an extended-stay hotel, which Levine and Janko are considering.

Incidentally, the Levine/Janko site is the same one on which a 24-story office tower was proposed by Siegel-Gallagher back in 2003--the unnamed "Wisconsin and Broadway" tower. So that proposal is dead. And difficulty could still be ahead for the Levine/Janko proposal too, since the site sits within a historic district which contains some post-Civil War-era commerical buildings--run down, but definitely with some fixer-upper potential.

The Milwaukee Athletic Club is reviewing proposals for an office/retail/condo building on the site of its parking structure off Broadway. The club is looking over plans from six developers, and hopes to make an annoncement in the next few months.

And still others are on the hunt for tenants or drawing up proposals. Irgens is still seeking tenants for Ovation Plaza, a mixed-use building on the site now occupied by the Marcus Center's parking garage on N. Water Street. The NAI MLG Commercial firm is working on plans for a new office quarters near the riverfront in the Park East corridor. Williams Development is looking into a project on the site of the Bank One parking garage at N. Water and E. Michigan Streets.

From the Business Journal: Developers keep faith in high-rise offices after Quarles decision (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/03/21/story3.html?page=1)

a second thread....a second USBank...

its all good.

ponies are pretty.

Go UWM! LOL, I've got small bets on this game that they will pull it off.

Wouldn't it be somethin if they could do it...

It would be absolutely awesome if they somehow pulled it off. Just nothing short of spectacular.

I'm prediction, though:

Final Score:

Milwaukee 48
Illionis 71

^^LOL

I hope they pull it off. A #12 knocking off a #1 seed would be awesome! Unless you're from Illinois, then it would just be embarrassing.

UWM has a basketball team?

Wisconsin has four D1 teams:

Marquette (Big East)
Wisconsin (Big Ten)
UW-Milwaukee (Horizon)
UW-Green Bay (Horizon)

CG5 was kidding, for the follwoing reasons:

1) He lives in Milwaukee, and it's been impossible to go anywhere, read anything, or watch anything here where the subject wasn't UWM basketball (at least it took the media's outrageous attention away from the "Brookfield Massacre" for a while).

and 2) He's a UWM student.

That is correct, sir.

Another downtown law firm is looking for a possible new home; this time it's Godfrey & Kahn, which currently leases space in the M&I Building. As expected, most of the developers who have responded to the request had also been involved with the previous Quarles & Brady request earlier this year, which subsequently fell through:

- Irgens Development is pushing for their long-proposed Ovation Plaza on the 1000-block of N. Water Street
- The Milwaukee Athletic Club and its developer are pushing to redevelop the Club's parking structure at 758 N. Broadway
- Janko & Levine are pushing for a new 17-story building to be built at E. Wisconsin Avenue and N. Broadway
- Developer Joel Lee is puching a surface parking lot across from the Pfister Hotel
- NAI MLG Commercial is pushing for a new building in the Park East corridor
- Williams Development is pushing for redeveloping the Bank One parking structure at N. Water and E. Michigan Streets
- US Bancorp is pushing for a second tower for the US Bank Center

Landing Godfrey & Kahn as a major tenant for any one of those proposals would be a big step in seeing at least one of them closer to getting built.

Also, owners of the Milwaukee Center have approached the firm, as there is space available there. And the law firm could still chose to renew its lease in the M&I Building.

Godfrey & Kahn hopes to make a decision within the next two months.

Read about it in this article from the Business Journal: Law firm seeks new office space - Godfrey & Kahn requests proposals for downtown office building (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/03/28/story1.html?page=1)


***


Mark Attanasio, new owner of the Milwaukee Brewers, is considering redeveloping portions of the Miller Park parking lots in hopes of attracting more fans, generating more revenue, and more off-season activity in the stadium area--a suggestion which was made last year by the State Legislative Audit Bureau.

Attanasio envisions a mix of restaurants/bars, retail stores, and a hotel somewhere on the stadium grounds (and yes, there would most certainly be enough space for tailgating as well). Some of the possible new development would likely complement new yet-to-be-proposed projects to be built in the planned industrial/business park at the western end of the Menomonee Valley, which will be adjacent to the stadium's eastern parking lots.

More in the Business Journal article:
New attraction: Miller Park grounds - Attanasio seeks mix of activities to draw more fans (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/03/28/story3.html)


***


The Wisconsin Department of Transportation will have 16 acres of surplus land, ripe for development, when the downtown Marquette Interchange reconstruction project wraps up in 2008-09. WisDOT plans to sell that land either to private developers or the City of Milwaukee. Proceeds from the land sale will be put into the state highway fund:

- One acre at at the northwest corner of W. St Paul Avenue and N. 5th Street - the former Allied Glove building, a run-down, low-rise brick industrial structure, whcih partially stands in the way of a new freeway ramp will be demolished in April. Factory operations relocated elsewhere in the city two years ago. The site is kitty-corner to the Amtrak station (which WisDOT plans to renovate--one of these days), would make an indeal site for a mixed-use parking structure.

- Four acres at the northwest corner of N. James Lovell Drive (7th Street) and W. Clybourn Street - now occupied by a looping freeway ramp and a surface parking lot, which will be removed and replaced elsewhere by a ramp of a different design. An unnamed grocery store chain has been considering the site for a store.

- Eleven acres at W. Mount Vernon Avenue and N. 12th Street, southwest of the Interhcange - now occupied by some industrial buildings and a junkyard. WisDOT is currently negotiating with the owner to purchase the property, who has been in ongoing disputes with the City over back taxes and occupancy permits.

From the Business Journal: Marquette interchange land to be sold for development (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/03/28/story6.html)

And a link to the Marquette Interchange project website: http://www.mchange.org


***


The Redevelopment Authority is planning to acquire a vacant Sentry Foods store and McDonald's near the southwest corner of W. Walnut and N. 20th Streets. The City has deemed those properties as a blight in a neighborhood that is slowly experincing reinvestment, with nearby revitalization projects such as CityHomes, Garfield Place, and the Lindsay Heights residential developments.


Also, the City has approved a proposal for a small mixed-use development in the 1200-block of W. Highland Boulevard--near Aurora Sinai Medical Center and just across the freeway from PabstCity. The three-story building would contain a convenience store and gas station on the first floor, with two floors of offices above (something not really seen at all here).

From the Business Journal's "Real Estate Roundup": City working to acquire Walnut Street property for redevelopment / Mixed-use project proposed near PabstCity (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/03/28/newscolumn2.html?page=1)

Well, since there does seem to be a need for a new office highrise I guess we'll just have to wait and see what transpires.

Thank god Attanasio wants to develop around the stadium. I've been complaining about emptiness surrounding the park since it went up.

I just got back from a trip to NYC, and I'm happy to be back in Milwaukee again (which was surprising). Thanks for the news Markitect.

^When were you in New York?

No Chatter about UWM after the Loss of both the game and Bruce, huh?

^March 19-26 in Jersey and Manhattan, I got pictures I posted in the photo contest.

Here's a few pics for our new Milwaukee thread!

http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/01250502_G.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/01110501_G.jpg
http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/01110502_G.jpg

Very nice shots!!

Here's a few pics for our new Milwaukee thread!


Really great shots, did you take those? Those angles create awesome density views of downtown. Thanks for sharing.

^March 19-26 in Jersey and Manhattan, I got pictures I posted in the photo contest.

Haha, I was there for a bit of the 22nd, through the 24th. The weather was aweful on the 23rd, but it was still a great time. We actually stayed at a hotel in Jersey City. Coincidence! I will check out your photos.

Awesome pictures, Neph! I love the first one especially. When were they taken?

Aw, hell yeah. Somebody knows somebody in a Prospect high rise.

Aw, hell yeah. Somebody knows somebody in a Prospect high rise.
LOL, CG5, you know me way too well :)

If you know Paule (that's me) at all you would know I've always been nothing but a picture whore bag. I am very careful not to intrude on my fellow forumers hidden pics however. Plus I only post pics I think others will think are awesome also.

These pictures are from a guy who lives in the Propect Tower who odviously does alot of traveling with his family. His website is filled with pics from abroad, none of them being cityscapes but apparently, and to our happyness, the construction of the Kilbourn Tower had caught his eye!

MSPtoMKE, yes, that first pic is awesome isn't it? It's why I chose to post it first and why I have it as my desktop background right now. Try it, it's much better blown up!

good lord man....excellent pictures! I love all of them...especially the last one. I scrolled to the last one first and thought it was a pic of some European city..like Manchester or something before I noticed the of the 100 E Wisconsin tower. I have never seen the skyline at that angle before...I guess that would be the reason.

The first one...beautiful. :)

Take a look at onmilwaukee.com today and scroll down to the "coming tomorrow" section at the bottom, and check back on Friday to see the story. This could be huge for downtown Milwaukee. Lets keep our fingers crossed.

continue conversation here.
Hey wait a minute...

A few comments...This is really #3. The first one is in the NASF archive... Where is the 2nd one, as it needs moved to the archive as well. (we archive development news threads, and just close the others)...

Nordstrom @ Grand Ave?

Take a look at onmilwaukee.com today and scroll down to the "coming tomorrow" section at the bottom, and check back on Friday to see the story. This could be huge for downtown Milwaukee. Lets keep our fingers crossed.

Friday = April Fool's = OMC's joke headlines = you can uncross your fingers

Yeah, I'm sure they are joke headlines.

I mean, read them. C'mon. They're joke headlines.

They always do their whole site up with gag articles on April 1st.

Yes, yes good ol' April Fools. Here is some great info that is not fake regarding the Posner Building on Wisconsin Ave, you know - Mo's, Johnny Vassallo, he has big plans.

Vassallo has big plans for Posner Building (http://www.biztimes.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=currentissue.welcome&display=PubHigh&num=2)

Haha, I was there for a bit of the 22nd, through the 24th. The weather was aweful on the 23rd, but it was still a great time. We actually stayed at a hotel in Jersey City. Coincidence! I will check out your photos.


Hey it could have happened. I spent a lot of time in Midtown and the Eastside.

Also, I've been contemplating moving to 5th Ward lately so I've been spending a lot of time in the area. I'm sure you guys know how hot that place is right now, I think I'm going to do a photo thread in the near future.

Development is right on target in that area. I was checking out this one building thats almost complete, something like a 9 story warehouse with 4-5 brand new floors on top, it's right behind Barossa. Anyone know what I'm talking about? It's a beatiful building.

Usually i let you guys post development news but i saw this yesterday...

Park East parcel draws 6 proposals

http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/mar05/314402.asp

^Thanks for the post, keep em coming.

Big news in the Milwaukee Business Journal. Glendale based Manpower is looking to consolidate several existing office buildings and its 2,000+ employees into a new 250,000 sq.ft. building. Sites in Brookfield, Glendale, Franklin and downtown Milwaukee are being looked at. From reading the article it appears the developers of the 2nd US bank tower are actively pursuing Manpower. Price is a big sticking point for the company, which does not bode well for a downtown site. Look for the article in the online version tomorrow.

Manpower Inc., an international staffing company based in suburban Glendale, is looking for 250,000 square feet of office space to house 2100 local employees. The firm is looking at existing buildings as well as possible new construction in Milwaukee, West Allis, Brookfield, Franklin, and Glendale.

According to one of US Bancorp's vice presidents, Manpower has looked into the possibility of being an anchor tenant in the proposed US Bank sister tower. However, the cheaper rents that can be found in suburban areas ($20/sq ft downtown versus $15 or less/sq ft in the suburbs) could be a factor that prevents a downtown relocation. Likewise, the parking issue, as usual, seems to be another hurdle that must be overcome. City of Milwaukee officials have yet to talk with Manpower about any relocation options and incentives.

It should also be noted that Manpower has no definite plans to move out of Glendale; but the firm is just exploring the possibilities. As expected, the City of Glendale is taking an active role in retaining Manpower--possibly helping to expand the firms current headquarters or relocating to elsewhere in the city.

More can be found in the Business Journal article: Powerhouse tenant hits market - Manpower seeks space for 2,100 employees (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/04/04/story1.html?page=1)


***


The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel's architecture and urban design critic, Whitney Gould, gives her thoughts on the latest redevelopment plans for PabstCity, which call for demlishing more buildings than originally anticipated. In the beginning, 21 of the 29 buildings that make up the former brewery complex were to be saved; the more recent plans only save 8 buildings. Developers say they cannot afford to rehabilitate as many as they originally thought due to extreme deteriroation in some buildings, and others would be difficult to rehab from a functional standpoint.

Gould suggests that PabstCity developers make an attempt to save at least a few more of the notable buildings, especially given the amount of public subsidy that is anticipated for the project. She also proposes that other developers could/should be allowed to take a crack at rehabilitating some of the more challenging buildings. And finally, she points out the potential of the new buildings that will be built as part of the project, and that the histroci preservation commission's special design guidelines (the brewery is a historic district) that are supposed to be applied to any new construction be rewritten to ecnourage bold, new designs and not "Disneyish theme park stuff - Ye Olde Pabstville" that mimic old architecture.

Read it in the Journal Sentinel: Worthy of the blue ribbon? - PabstCity plan is good, could be better (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/apr05/315211.asp)
NOTE: Be sure to click on the More Photos (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/mar05/display331.asp) link in the sidebar to see a brief tour of the Pabst brewery in its current state!

Development is right on target in that area. I was checking out this one building thats almost complete, something like a 9 story warehouse with 4-5 brand new floors on top, it's right behind Barossa. Anyone know what I'm talking about? It's a beatiful building.

are you talking about the Teweles Seed Company Building (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=153383) ?

^Yea that's the one. But it looks different than the Emporis picture now because it has additional floors ontop.

Neph, great shots. Never seen the skyline from that angle before.

I finally got around to purging my photo album. Here are some pics from my brief stint in Miltown... dunno if I posted these before already(?) I might of... it was either in here or that 'other' fourm. ;) But whatever, here goes:


http://img224.exs.cx/img224/6064/355yi.jpg


http://img224.exs.cx/img224/4940/269ti.jpg


http://img224.exs.cx/img224/6488/282dx.jpg
^ Down the street from where I used to live :p


http://img95.exs.cx/img95/4738/372ny.jpg


http://img88.exs.cx/img88/6607/476qc.jpg


http://img148.exs.cx/img148/3876/088dv.jpg


http://img139.exs.cx/img139/8165/245dw.jpg


http://img95.exs.cx/img95/5092/397il.jpg


http://img23.exs.cx/img23/623/500au.jpg

Where in Milwaukee is this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/TheDesertFox/Milwaukee.jpg

I found it but it doesn't look like anything I'm familiar with.

Where in Milwaukee is this:

I don't know, off hand I'd say that isn't Milwaukee but somewhere out east.

Neph, great shots. Never seen the skyline from that angle before.

I finally got around to purging my photo album. Here are some pics from my brief stint in Miltown... dunno if I posted these before already(?) I might of... it was either in here or that 'other' fourm. ;) But whatever, here goes:
I never seen these pics of yours so you must have posted these in that "other" forum. Superb job on all the pics, love that first pic with the dark blue, cloudy sky and the skyline peaking out in the back. My favorite has to the night shot of the 6th St viaduct!

yeah I agree. Those are some great pics man..I especially like the gritty industrial ones. Great work!

Since we have to sit here and wait for further word on the towers being "thought of" in Milwaukee,
I thought I'd post a couple pics to show where Milwaukee is comeing from. These pics are not all that old,
one is from the late 60s and the other from the mid 70s. LOL, it's basicly a before and after the great
USBank. If you look real hard at the first pic you will see that the Regency House has just been toped off.
It kind of puts things in perspective on just how far the downtown skyline has come in the last 30 years.

http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/13144.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/13152.jpg

In the first picture, those 2 Interstates that go straight through the Marquette Exchange from right to left, the one that cuts all the way through is I-43(Fond du Lac/Green Bay) North and the one that angles off is I-94 West(Madison). AWESOME spot to view the skyline day or night.

Jai, fantastic photos. Really great eye.

http://www.berghammer.com/admin/uploadedfiles/211_sketch.jpg

The above image is the largest I could find of the rendering for facade renovation of 211 Wisconsin. Berghammer Construction is keeping a great photo update of the project.

Berghammer Construction Pics (http://www.berghammer.com/viewprojectvt.cfm?ID=58)

From the Biz Journal of Milwaukee:

--Revived office market positive for downtown (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/04/04/editorial1.html)
--Miller Park, Art Museum achieve national notice (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/03/28/daily47.html)
--Commission advances Aurora's Summit hospital plan (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/04/04/daily18.html)

Good news. I like to see that Manpower wants 250,000 sq. feet and that law firm wants 85,000 downtown. I'm hoping Milwaukee can get a "defining" tower, maybe over 50 stories tall. A tower that isn't just a box that "defines" the Milwaukee skyline- and makes it unique and noticable.

people may disagree with me...but I like the USBank tower. Its big, tall, and white--something that looks very cool from the lake. It stands out in the skyline..something I like. Alot of the buildings built back then werent exactly the most beautiful anyway. Some of the buildings in Milwaukee from back then were pretty hideious. MECCA...the Post Office. The Northwestern Mutual Buiding and the M&I Bank tower probally wouldnt get a date to prom if they were human. On a side note..I do like the M&I Bank tower--it reminds me of a smaller, thiner, darker AON center or WTC.

The US Bank Tower is too just plain old building to me. It has 4 sides. Some windows. That's about it.

I'm with Redd on the US Bank building. I like it. I hate the tacky signs they put on the top floors, but overall it's not as hideous a building as people make it out to be.

It would be nice if our tallest building could be a bit more current. But in 30 years US Bank will probably be considered romantic, as a relic of a certain time in history.

yeah..if they ditched the USBANK logo on top...it would be cool lol. Its not like some typical box..such as its ugly duckling big brother--the Shell building in New Orleans. It stands out nicely and has alot of windows. I think it will look kinda nice when University Club fills in the gaps...along with the USBANK2 if it gets built.

The US Bank Center is actually quite a nicely-done high-rise for its time. The diagonal cross bracing is a wonderful structural and architectural detail that keeps the building from being a smiple bland box. It's unfortunate that Firstar (and later US Bank) felt the need to blemish such a great building by tacking the large back-lit billboads at the very top, obsucuring the cross-bracing up there. The only other problem with the building is the way it meets the street at ground level--nothing but a block-long expanse of empty concrete steps. At the very least there should be a nice canopy over the entry and some greenery along the sidewalk and plaza.

From the Biz Journal of Milwaukee:

--Miller Park, Art Museum achieve national notice (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/03/28/daily47.html)


From that Miller Park, MAM article I read that the Washingtom Post had done an article last week on Milwaukee and it's revival. I went and looked for it and here it is.

Very good article I must say, has got to be the best I've read on Milwaukee from an out of state newspaper.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1007-2005Mar25.html?sub=new

The lone picture from the article
http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/I1211-2005Mar25L.txt

^Great article.

^Very nice article. Thanks for sharing. It's refreshing to hear positive opinions like that from out-of-staters. I may start saving articles like that to wip out when I start talking about Milwaukee, so people stop giving me crazy looks. :)

Wow that's a great picture. I wish I lived there.

The Historic Preservation Commission heard comments yesterday from developers, politicians, and citizens regarding the proposed demolition work for PabstCity. The developers plan to demolish a total of 14 buildings in the brewery comlpex, citing that costs would be too high to rehabilitate them. Preservationists claim that at least some of the buildings slated for demolition should be spared, due to their historic integrity and architectural value. In the end, the HPC made a recommendation to the Common Council that 6 of those 14 buildings be spared from the wrecking ball (the ones that are most significant).

Alderman Bauman, who sits on the HPC, thinks it is unlikely the Common Council will support the HPC's recommendation to save the 6 buildings, so as not to delay the project any longer, but may be more open to keeping 2 of them--the old malt house and a former church that was converted into a tasting room and training center for the brewery. The Common Council has the final say in the matter.

From the Journal Sentinel: Historical panel wants Pabst buildings preserved (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/apr05/316316.asp)

14 Buildings slated for demolishing seems a little steep. What kind of condition are the buildings in?

14 Buildings slated for demolishing seems a little steep. What kind of condition are the buildings in?

A lot of the Pabst buildings are in really rough shape. The people who ran the brewery during it's last few decades basically did not maintain a lot of the buildings. So there are some serious structural problems.

I'm OK with demolition as long as enough is retained to convey to visitors that this was once indeed a brewery. At this point they will retain the brewhouse, which I think should be central to any redevelopment.

Go to: http://www.brewcity.net/index1.html to learn more about the buildings in the old Pabst Brewery complex. Click on "for sale" then click on "aerial view of the properties."

You will then see a photograph of the entire site. The Keg House (#9), Brew House (#20), Mill House (#21), Bottling House (#29), school and office building (#27 and #28) and gift shop/Blue Ribbon Hall (#35) would be preserved. The rest would all be demolished.

As you will see there are some beautiful buildings that will be preserved in this development plan. Some attractive buildings will be lost, and several ugly structures will also be demolished.

Overall, I think this is a great plan. Yes, some nice old buildings will be lost. But several jewels will be saved. If the historic preservation people want to save all of these buildings they need to figure out where the money is going to come from because these buildings are in very bad shape and it costs a lot to fix them up. Bottom line, it just isn't there. There's a reason this site has sat there for almost 10 years. If this plan stalls the site could remain vacant for many more years and all of the buildings could deteriorate to a point that they cannot be repaired.

This is a golden, once in a lifetime opportunity to bring something big, cool and exciting to downtown Milwaukee. Hopefully the Common Council doesn't blow it by killing this project. They need to approve this plan and get the thing moving. We've waited long enough!

Go to: http://www.brewcity.net/index1.html to learn more about the buildings in the old Pabst Brewery complex. Click on "for sale" then click on "aerial view of the properties."


Just a note for everyone--the brewcity.net is the old outdated website for the Pabst redevelopment project, from back before it was christened "PabstCity" and before the big-time developers were on board (Wispark from Milwaukee and the Ferchill Group of Cleveland). The website was a presentation a group of local investors (led by James Haertel) used to pitch the brewery redevelopment idea to potential investors and the aforementioned eventual development partners (who seem to have pushed out Haertel and his group from the current PabstCity plans).

So the stuff you see on that website, like the fly-thru 3-D visualization movies depicting renovated buildings and such are now outdated. But the fantastic historical information provided in the building descritions is all still relevant, of course.

Current information about PabstCity can be found on the Wispark website: Wispark - PabstCity (http://www.wispark.com/pabstcity/index.htm)

I had the unexpected pleasure today of having lunch with a senior vice president of USBank and I snuck a few questions in there about what he knew about the proposed second tower.

A lot of stuff we already know... for example it would be a combination commercial/residential building. It would be adjacent to the parking structure, etc.

A few things that may or may not be known (not sure what you all know) are... first and most disappointing is that it almost certainly without a doubt, according to him, would NOT be 40+ stories like the original tower. At this point in time he spoke more of a 20some story building. he said something along the lines of, "the realestate market in milwaukee isn't very bad, but its not exactly booming." However, they were very optimistic because of how fast the building nearby (I forget the name...) filled up. They figure if a 10-13 story building fills that fast they could have about that many floors or more of commercial with residential added on b/c of the strong condo market.

ok... most of that you probably knew or figured... but also he said they were running into strong opposition from neighbors about lake views. So that would be another obstacle for a very tall building.

Finally, to put a rest to any rumors, the building would *not* be a twin building. It would be a whole new design. I would guess as much that it would fit in with the neighbors but be unique in its own right.

Asked about his personal feelings on the likelihood of completion he put it at an even 50/50.

I don't know if that gave you much info, but I thought I'd share. If I remember anything else I'll let you all know.

Thanks coldwake for relaying that info to us. I have to say that when I first heard of this "twin tower" I was giving it a 50/50 chance myself, HOWEVER, I did base that on what the article said was going to be a twin, 40+ story, tower. I do see a 20+ story office tower going up in Milwaukee soon but it does dissapoint me greatly that apparently no one in Milwaukee is thinking as grand as in a 40+ story tower. Another great disapointmet to me is his apparent concern for the NIMBYS!!!

Tell me something if you can please. Did you show him at all that you were disappointed in the contradictions he was makeing in view of the articles that have been written so far on this thing? Does he realize how many people in Milwaukee not only want but will support a taller, tallest building in Milwaukee?

Does he realize how many people in Milwaukee not only want but will support a taller, tallest building in Milwaukee?

People can want a new building, people can be in support of a new building, but none of that matters if there's not enough actual demand for the space within the building. Every single shmuck on the street might like to see a new tall building go up in Milwaukee, but if developers can't find enough tenants who are willing to lease in the building, it's not going to get built, because nobody's going to put up a building if they cannot get a decent return on their investment. That goes for any building, in any city.

As for the NIMBY "it will block my lake view" issue--it's baseless; they don't really have a case. The lake views in Milwaukee are not protected by any law.

The way he was talking it was more political opposition. No one can actually say "you can't build that it blocks my view." However, people and businesses can attempt to use their political sway to influence certain decisions made by our city and its politicians.

Otherwise I totally agree... if the market is there for a 40+ then it will be built. What we want doesn't always coincide with what is practical.

One of the things I discovered during that meeting with him was that he is an alumni of my busienss fraternity... so there is a good chance I'll see or talk to him again. If so I'll see what else I can glean. :)

The way he was talking it was more political opposition. No one can actually say "you can't build that it blocks my view." However, people and businesses can attempt to use their political sway to influence certain decisions made by our city and its politicians.

Otherwise I totally agree... if the market is there for a 40+ then it will be built. What we want doesn't always coincide with what is practical.

One of the things I discovered during that meeting with him was that he is an alumni of my busienss fraternity... so there is a good chance I'll see or talk to him again. If so I'll see what else I can glean. :)
I also agree with what you two are saying about the market but by all the articles that have been posted here in the last few months I do see the possibility that a new tallest could be built. It's just that the way you wrote your post showed me the guy and in fact USBank as a whole really isn't interested in being the ones to pull the switch if you will. He seems to be afriad it wont be successful but again by all the articles I've read shows that there would be a good possibility of it being successful.

Well I really hope you're right and we see it soon! :)

The first phase of the Columbia-St. Mary's Hospital expansion and redevelopment will include a new mixed-use project called Pospect Medical Commons, at the northwest corner of N. Prospect and E. North Avenues. Ground floor commercial space will be leased to Whole Foods--the country's largest organic and natural foods retailer, making its first foray in the Milwaukee area. The remaining three stories will contain medical office space for about 70 doctors. A parking structure will also be included, which will be shared between the supermarket customers and hospital patients/staff; it will also be available during nighttime hours for patrons visiting other neighbohrood restaurants, bars, and businesses.

The site was once occupied by a Heiser Ford dealership, which was razed a couple years ago in anticipation of the hospital project. Construction will begin this June; Whole Foods is expected to open November 2006, with the medical offices to open in January 2007.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/apr05/wholefoods_rendering_041105_big.jpg
^ This rendering shows Prospect Medical Commons. The North Avenue frontage is on the left side. The Prospect Avenue frontage is on the right side.

More details in the Journal Sentinel: Whole Foods coming to east side - Natural food seller is nation's biggest (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/apr05/317234.asp)

^My friend and I were looking at apartments near North Ave the other day, and the biggest negative we could find was the lack of a grocery store. Really great news, this is a much needed project, huge postive for the area.

There are already two large grocery stores in that area. A Jewel Osco at North and Humbolt and a Sendik's on Downer. Both are relatively close, less that 1 mile away but I do agree tht this new store will provide something in walking distance to this high density area.

^ I live in the area so I'm familar.

But when you're talking about an urban neighborhood, walking distance is all that matters. If I lived in the vicinity of North and Prospect, I wouldn't want to walk to a grocery store, even if it was less than a mile away. A grocery store a mile away in a city could be located in, and supporting, a completely different area and neighborhood. I want something a couple of blocks away for me to support it.

Putting a grocery store in that neighborhood hopefully means people will WALK there, instead of driving their car (something that I don't have.) Anything that takes dependance on a car away, I support.

When this project, and the Kennilworth building, are completed, this neighborhood will be completely different. This neighborhood never quite hit the skids like Brady Street did 20 years ago, but nevertheless it was always lacking a certain vitality, especially with the largely dormant Kennilworth building in its midst.

Next down the pike I hope plans are announced soon for the Prospect Mall. It was purchaced recently by an ambitious developer with some good ideas. I think everyone would agree that place needs a serious overhall.

I really like the transformation of the car wash building just south of the Kennilworth building on Farwell. Who would have thought that beautiful historic facade was hiding underneath that tacky '70s-era crap?

When this project, and the Kennilworth building, are completed, this neighborhood will be completely different. This neighborhood never quite hit the skids like Brady Street did 20 years ago, but nevertheless it was always lacking a certain vitality, especially with the largely dormant Kennilworth building in its midst.

Next down the pike I hope plans are announced soon for the Prospect Mall. It was purchaced recently by an ambitious developer with some good ideas. I think everyone would agree that place needs a serious overhall.

I really like the transformation of the car wash building just south of the Kennilworth building on Farwell. Who would have thought that beautiful historic facade was hiding underneath that tacky '70s-era crap?

First off thanks for the info on the Pabst brewing from earlier.

Also, I totally agree with about North Ave neighborhood, I think we're in process of seeing this good neighborhood turn into a thriving one. I think more residential development is on the horizon.

I have a question for you, or anyone that would have the information. I've only lived in Milwaukee for two years, so I've missed a lot of major neighborhood developments in the city. When did the area between the North and Oakland intersection, and North and Prospect gain it's momentum in development. Or was it a long process?

Double Post

When did the area between the North and Oakland intersection, and North and Prospect gain it's momentum in development. Or was it a long process?

I believe that part of the East Side has always been relatively stable, active, and healthy compared to other nearby areas that declined pretty badly (like Brady Street once was--lined with dumpy buildings and drug houses). So if it fell, it never fell far. The proximity to the hospital, UWM, and the wealthy North Point neighborhoods prevented that from happening. Historically, it's always been a major urban center on the East Side, dating back to when the railroad line (now the bike trail) and streetcar lines were built in the late-1800s.

There have been some smaller new developments here and there over the years, and other gradual improvements (like the recent streetscaping), but the newer/upcoming stuff like the Kenilworth Building and the hospital expansion is more like icing on a cake that's already pretty delicious.

There were plans a while back about building a retail/residential project on the surface parking lot on Farwell Avenue, by the bank, and possibly replacing the branch library on North Avenue--but those seem to have quiety gone away fro the time being.

^The icing on the cake I like that. Thanks for the background information on the nieghborhood.

The Department of City Development has unveiled a comprehensive neighborhood plan for the Third Ward that will help shape future development in the area. The plan focuses a good deal on infill development, which will undoubtedly pick up steam as developers run out of turn-of-the-century industrial/warehouse buildings to convernt into new uses. Most of the land in the eastern portion of the neighborhood are surface parking lots and rather ugly, utilitarian, new-ish industrial buildings.

The goal of the plan isn't to force out those industries, but rather to prepare a vision for what the area could become if the land on which those factories sit becomes available for redevelopment. The biggest challenge for the City would be how and where to retain any outgoing industrial firms (one Third Ward firm recently announced it will be relocating to suburban Franklin). The City hopes to convince any possible outgoing factories to relocate to places like the Menomonee Valley or the Tower Automotive site. Another challenge, as always, is the parking issue; which is a concern because of the nearby festival grounds. Parking structures are envisioned for the area.

The plan also calls for improving the block and street grid along the eastern edge of the neighborhood. This would include:

- A new boulevard and park area along E. Polk Street to connect the riverfront with the lakefront festival grounds
- A new alignment and landscaping for N. Harbor Drive, to dress up the western edge of the festival grounds and provide a buffer for new development
- And creating new blocks for development by slicing streets through the existing surface parking lots south of the Italian Community Center

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/apr05/lofts041205.jpg
^ The Mandel Group is converting this former industrial building on Erie Street into the Marine Terminal Lofts.

Check out the article from the Journal Sentinel: Broader vision for Third Ward - More development planned east of N. Jefferson St. (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/apr05/317893.asp)


***


The City's Common Council is considering the possibility of buying County-owned land in the Park East corridor in an effort to speed up and streamline the redevelopment process. Milwaukee County currently owns 16 acres on whcih the freeway once stood.

As things are now, all development proposals on County-owned land would have to seek approval from the County and the City anyway, so it only makes sense to eliminate one level of government approval in the process; and the City has more experience in urban redevelopment than does the County. Alderman D'Amato is pushing for the City to purchase the land, and County Executive Walker is open to the idea of selling.

More in the Journal Sentinel article: City considers buying county's Park East land - Sale could ease redevelopment of property in downtown Milwaukee, advocates say (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/apr05/317468.asp)

I've always thought that the sea of parking lots surrounding Summerfest should be developed with commercial and residential uses. The proceeds from the sale of those lands could pay for a series of parking structures to handle the summerfest crowds. It makes sense in so many ways -- it makes the area near summerfest more of a "neighborhood," making the summerfest grounds more integrated into the rest of the City. With some improvements on the grounds, they could become more of a year-round facility rather than one that lays dormant for 9 months out of the year. With development on the east edge of the Third Ward, we wouldn't have valuable urban land sitting vacant for 9 months a year in the form of huge parking lots.

Some high rises on those parking lot sites could be quite lucrative. People would pay big bucks to have a bird's eye view of Summerfest and the lake, while being high enough in the air to be buffered from the noise of the crowds leaving the grounds at night.

Well, let's try this again, since the last few posts were lost during the forum's transition to a new server this afternoon...

I've always thought that the sea of parking lots surrounding Summerfest should be developed with commercial and residential uses. The proceeds from the sale of those lands could pay for a series of parking structures to handle the summerfest crowds. It makes sense in so many ways -- it makes the area near summerfest more of a "neighborhood," making the summerfest grounds more integrated into the rest of the City. With some improvements on the grounds, they could become more of a year-round facility rather than one that lays dormant for 9 months out of the year. With development on the east edge of the Third Ward, we wouldn't have valuable urban land sitting vacant for 9 months a year in the form of huge parking lots.

During the 1980s, early proposals for the Italian Community Center included a parking podium on top of which a series of large, open, pedestrian plazas would be laid out between a series of several taller buildings (hotel, aduitorium/theater, offices, residential, and the actual community center)--accessible from the street level via grand staircases and ramps. It was a very bold vision laid out by the ICC, but it resembled more of a super-mega-giant project plopped in the middle of the city, rather than a fine-grained, urban-scaled project. It was ultinately much too ambitious and expensive for the ICC to turn into a reality, so it was scaled back to the present sole building and surface parking lots to the south.

Those parking lots are owned by the ICC, and sells parking spaces year-round as a source of revenue, so it is an important source of income for the organization. But the ICC is well aware of the potential development possibilities of those lots, and in more recent years, has looked into different ways of developing them--ways that are a bit more realistic than the grandiose super-schemes of the 1980s. The ICC was a major player in this most recent comprehensive plan put out by the Department of City Development.

BIG NEWS: Milwaukee and Wisconsin are holding Madison down. They had some tests did.

^Don't remind me...

News Updates:
Smoother ride: Lake Express upgrades boat, expands business marketing (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/04/11/story4.html)
Northwest side building sought for expansion (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/04/11/daily3.html)
Rockwell planning major sale-leaseback deal on property (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/04/11/daily25.html)
Feds reject rival's claims against Miller's ads (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/04/11/daily24.html)

Also, great news about the comprehensive neighborhood plan for the Third Ward. I drove past some of the new condos in Third/5th this morning and noticed Harbor Front (on Erie St, at the end of the Milwaukee River, directly next to SummerFest grounds) looks almost complete. It appears another development is being constructed right next to it, on the river. I know it's not "First Place on the River", and I'm not completly positive it's another phase of Harbor Front.

Anyone know what it is?

I just wanted to shift focus from Kilbourn to UC Tower for a moment. I was looking up housing information online and ran across this picture. It sparked interest for me in details of the architecture of the tower. Does anyone know of any resources to get some more close-up renderings for this? If you go to the Madel Group website (Universty Club Tower (http://mandelgroup.com/condominiums/index.cfm?id=5) ) you can see another, and better, close-up rendering of balconies located higher on the tower. Here's the pic of the front:
http://mandelgroup.com/data/condos/ACFsqF7jC.jpg

I drove past some of the new condos in Third/5th this morning and noticed Harbor Front (on Erie St, at the end of the Milwaukee River, directly next to SummerFest grounds) looks almost complete. It appears another development is being constructed right next to it, on the river. I know it's not "First Place on the River", and I'm not completly positive it's another phase of Harbor Front.

Anyone know what it is?

The Harbor Front Condominiums, phase two.

I just wanted to shift focus from Kilbourn to UC Tower for a moment. I was looking up housing information online and ran across this picture. It sparked interest for me in details of the architecture of the tower. Does anyone know of any resources to get some more close-up renderings for this? If you go to the Madel Group website (Universty Club Tower (http://mandelgroup.com/condominiums/index.cfm?id=5) ) you can see another, and better, close-up rendering of balconies located higher on the tower.

Universityclubtower.com (http://www.universityclubtower) has one or two similar small close-up views. Other than that, you'd have to contact the developers.

In the recent thread-from-hell about Wisconsin keeping Madison down or whatever, Badgers made a few interesting points. We all love Milwaukee and Wisconsin and we want the best. And as I look around this city I see many tangible signs of improvement. People hold their heads high and say with pride that they're from Milwaukee. I remember 10 years ago people were embarrassed to admit they were from here. There does seem to be a palpable buzz in Milwaukee that was never there before.

But have we really turned a corner, or are we still a city in decline? With every piece of good news comes bad news. The Washington Post recently carried a glowing article about us, calling us a "mini-Chicago" among other things. But the US Census just came out with 2004 figures that show that Milwaukee County STILL lost population between 2000 and 2004. It wasn't a huge exodus -- a net loss of 4,000 people -- but it would have been wonderful to see some numbers that show our condo boom and neighborhood improvements are yielding more people.

As I see it things in Milwaukee have improved a great deal -- for some of us. If you have the money to send your kids to a private school, then, yes, Milwaukee has probably improved for you. If not, then it's probably the same old city going down the tubes.

Mitchell Street Mall to be redeveloped

The south side Milwaukee building that once housed a Schuster's department store will be converted into 90 apartments, a $15 million development that will bring affordable housing and new retail space to the neighborhood, officials said today.

The building, 1020 Historic W. Mitchell St., now houses the Mitchell Street Mall - a series of ground-floor vendors who sell clothes, jewelry and other items - and upper level offices for the county Department of Health and Human Services and SER-Jobs for Progress, a social services agency.

SER-Jobs for Progress is selling the 160,000-square-foot building to Pewaukee developer Jerry Kostner and his partners. Kostner said they will convert most of the building's upper level space into apartments and give the first-floor retail space a major remodeling. He said the county offices will relocate, and new retail also might come to the street level. But SER-Jobs for Progress and a child care center will stay in the building.

The project, which will begin within two months and take nine to 12 months to complete, is being financed in part with $7 million in federal affordable housing tax credits, said Gov. Jim Doyle.

The credits are allocated annually by the Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority, and are provided to developers who agree to lease apartments at below-market rents to people who qualify for the program. The credits typically are used as equity capital and help developers secure loans for their projects.

Doyle, Mayor Tom Barrett and other officials gathered at the former Schuster's building to announce the granting of nearly $30 million in tax credits for six Milwaukee projects, totaling around 420 apartments.

Historic Mitchell Street is one of the coolest places in the whole freakin' city. This is VERY good news. I really really really gotta get down there with my camera soon. I've been meaning to do a HMS (ha) thread for a while now.

milwaukeeunseen - I see what you mean. I think that one of our biggest problems is that the city and the school district aren't directly connected. To my knowledge, the mayor's office has little (if any) say over what goes on. So while the city improves, that won't necessarily affect our stank-ass public school system.

Speaking of me taking pictures...didn't get down to HMS, but walked around the Lower East Side yesterday. Ch-ch-ch-check it out:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?threadid=73414

I should be getting access to my pictures from two weeks ago tonight...the reason I can't get to them...it's a long story. And convoluted as hell, lol. Needless to say, later this week there should be another, most-likely higher quality thread of a different part of the Easssside. I'll post a link.

Milwaukeeunseen you make a good point. It doesn't seem like the city can keep elevating itself with negative social problems still weighing it down.

But new towers are being built downtown, and those new lofts in Third Ward sure do look nice. Why should we be spending money on improving public education when Wisconsin Ave needs new granite planters. Who cares if public education is a joke, we've still got Rufus King right? (note the sarcasm)

The other night I was having a good conversation with one of my friends about the future of Milwaukee. I'm concerned we may be becoming the poster child for gentrification. I know that's a severe statement, and I'm probably just uneducated about the subject, but it's definetly a concern.

The other night I was having a good conversation with one of my friends about the future of Milwaukee. I'm concerned we may be becoming the poster child for gentrification. I know that's a severe statement, and I'm probably just uneducated about the subject, but it's definetly a concern.
Forgive me EastSider but wouldn't that be a good thing?

^Gentrification is not always a good thing.

It can result in the direct and indirect displacement of lower-income individuals and families. When a landlord, in anticipation of the demand for higher-income housing, removes units rented by low-income families from the market and refurbishes them either for resale or re-rental at a higher rate, the low-income families occupying such units are directly displaced. In contrast, indirect displacement results not from withdrawal of rental units from the market, but from steadily escalating rents for the units that remain on the market. In cities with little available affordable housing, such as Chicago, displacement can even lead to homelessness. Those who are lucky enough to secure new housing also incur substantial relocation costs. In addition, gentrification does not impact poverty in any way. It merely shifts a localized area of poverty from one place to the another, and in doing so exchanges a monoculture of poverty with a monoculture of wealth. Furthermore, displaced residents typically move to other lower-income areas, thereby actually increasing concentrated poverty and placing additional burdens on communities that are ill-equipped to accomodate them.

I'm not saying that gentrification is invariably negative. However, it must be carried out with extreme caution and in a way that minimizes harm to existing residents who already have limited political power to represent their own interests before and during the process.

^Wow. Very well written, my opinion exactly.

I apologize for the last post, it was a little intense. I had a late night cramming for black economics, (which would explain my "motivation" in what I wrote). No more late night posting for me :)

^I'm in the midst of exams myself. Trying to finish off a 30 page paper at the moment.

^I'm in the midst of exams myself. Trying to finish off a 30 page paper at the moment.
^Good Luck with that.

211 W Wisconsin Facade Renovation
http://img251.echo.cx/img251/5932/412059sl.jpg http://img251.echo.cx/img251/9049/416052ch.jpg

Kilbourn Tower Finished Interior
http://img251.echo.cx/img251/1250/interior12sw.jpg
http://img251.echo.cx/img251/341/interior23fj.jpg
http://img251.echo.cx/img251/1660/interior31dg.jpg

Virtual Tour for Completed Model (http://media.homestore.com/HGWBG282-6-VIRTUAL_TOUR.htm?)

Also Union Point (Beerline B's first mixed use project, I believe) has a nice website up. Renderings and Floor plans included.
Union Point Lofts (http://www.unionpointlofts.com/page2.htm)

hey everyone...I know I dont post here much anymore, but I was wondering if any of you had suggestions for a question I have.

right now, as hydro is in the midst of typing a 30 page paper, I am smack in the middle of a environmental issues investigation. Actually, the nascent stages of it, but whatever. The issue I am investigating is sprawl in the Milwaukee area, especially in Mequon, but the whole Milwaukee area as a whole is fine. I was wondering if anyone has any REALLY good questions I could ask the president of sprawl-friendly development company (I am in the process of setting up an interview) or just any good ideas in general. Any thoughts ar eappreciated. Thanks.

No, but check out the Field Guide to Sprawl if you get the chance...it'll help you bone up on your terminology. :) We have a copy at the UWMSARUPRC. Aka the UW-Milwaukee School of Arch. and Urban Planning Resource Center, where I work. Damn, that's a lotta acronym.

Also, that second thread of which I spoke has been posted over at SSP. Take a look. I think it's my best batch of Milwaukee pics:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?threadid=73724

^Great mix of photos, you're always good and representing the nieghborhood well, balancing all the aspects.

^Wow. Very well written, my opinion exactly.

I apologize for the last post, it was a little intense. I had a late night cramming for black economics, (which would explain my "motivation" in what I wrote). No more late night posting for me :)
I agree, hydrogen did a very good job at explaining that. What I'd like to know however is why you think Milwaukee is becomeing the poster child for gentrification? I mean there's no need to apologize because I think you did bring up a good topic but I'm not so sure I can agree with you. Look at the work that has been done and is being done. Most of these projects are not displaceing anybody or threatening anybody in being displaced. From what I see, the large majority of these projects are either useing abandoned buildings and or tareing those abandoned buildings down to make new. Where you probably have a point is that the "new" is turning out to be awefully expensive. You're not going to find too many lower middle income to low income families moving into these developments if at all.

Is this what you and your friend were talking about?

No, but check out the Field Guide to Sprawl if you get the chance...it'll help you bone up on your terminology. :) We have a copy at the UWMSARUPRC. Aka the UW-Milwaukee School of Arch. and Urban Planning Resource Center, where I work. Damn, that's a lotta acronym.

Also, that second thread of which I spoke has been posted over at SSP. Take a look. I think it's my best batch of Milwaukee pics:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?threadid=73724
Very nice thread CityGod but I don't know if I'd rank it the best thread ever by you because the thread of your trip to the southside last Fall was great but I do think you took one of the best downtown pics from the east that I've seen in awhile. In fact, I liked it so much I made it my desktop background pic!

Neph - I was thinking the same thing that you pointed out in your first post, and want to thank you for your comments in the second. (Thanks also to Eastsider.) :)

But look at where the sparkly new construction is taking place. The Beerline was empty land for...well, forever, I guess. Kilbourn and UCT are going up on a grassy patch and surface lot, respectively. The development in the Third and now the Fifth Wards consists mostly of renovating abandoned warehouses. The one place I can sort of see ugly gentrification starting to creep in is Bayview. First there was the Stone Creek Coffee. Don't get me wrong -- it's well done. It's just...Stone Creek. In Bayview. A little odd. But now there's a freaking Starbucks with a drive-through, and when I see it I throw up in my mouth a little. I don't know how it got there, but it scares me, lol.


Here's an interesting question though: the Third Ward and Beerline are filling up, the Fifth Ward is starting to come back...but what comes after that? Assuming that the city keeps improving, what neighborhood is next on the agenda for gentrification? The MLK is showing signs of improvement...what about the stretch of North Ave from the river to MLK? I can see the development creeping up from the river through the southern part of Riverwest (aren't they already converting an old factory in that area into condos?) and finally effecting MLK and North. That would be nice.

The Beerline was empty land for...well, forever, I guess. Kilbourn and UCT are going up on a grassy patch and surface lot, respectively. The development in the Third and now the Fifth Wards consists mostly of renovating abandoned warehouses.
Funny how a regular guy from Wausau can know this also? It's simple, it don't take no GED to figure out that Milwaukee is doing a very good job at developing and renewing, or rather (reuseing), what it has. That's the spirit I see what's going on in Milwaukee now. I actually think you people ought to be proud of the work that has been done. The city is doing the right things...so far.

My concern isn't with gentrification but with what I see Indianapolis has done with their city. Now Indy is a great old town with a wonderful downtown but is that what Milwaukee wants? Does Milwaukee want to become another Indy where the downtown is seemingly the only focus? To be honest with you, if anything, I see Milwaukee headed toward that goal but not towards the bad conotation that gentrification may bring with it. No I don't think Indy is a bad city. I think they were successfull because what they did fit their city but I don't see what they did as something that is good for Milwaukee.

The thing Milwaukee has going for it may seem to be that it is compacted. To put it simply, Milwaukee has alot to offer in a small amount of space yet there are plenty of areas within the city that will be neglected. The apparent case to prove my point on this would be the far northwest side. In the 70s it was the place to go but not anymore!

speaking of focusing on downtown.... heres an interesting website describing the pedestrian friendly improvements being made this spring and summer on Wisconsin ave, Kilbourn, and Water st. It looks like it should really make walking downtown easy on the eyes.

http://www.mpw.net/CorridorStudy/index.html

Funny how a regular guy from Wausau can know this also? It's simple, it don't take no GED to figure out that Milwaukee is doing a very good job at developing and renewing, or rather (reuseing), what it has. That's the spirit I see what's going on in Milwaukee now. I actually think you people ought to be proud of the work that has been done. The city is doing the right things...so far.

Bricks and mortar only go so far. There are many social issues that need to be addressed in order to really improve Milwaukee, as has been pointed out here previously by others. There may be a few nice shiny new high-rises going up, or some decent low-rise infill development...but the schools need to be improved, jobs need to be retained/attracted, racial tensions need to be loosened, gentrification creeping into certain neighborhoods, and a host of other social problems.

My concern isn't with gentrification but with what I see Indianapolis has done with their city. Now Indy is a great old town with a wonderful downtown but is that what Milwaukee wants? Does Milwaukee want to become another Indy where the downtown is seemingly the only focus? To be honest with you, if anything, I see Milwaukee headed toward that goal but not towards the bad conotation that gentrification may bring with it. No I don't think Indy is a bad city. I think they were successfull because what they did fit their city but I don't see what they did as something that is good for Milwaukee.

We do not need to worry about Milwaukee becoming another Indianapolis. Downtown is not the only focus, it never has been, nor will it ever be...for the simple fact that Milwaukee has always been a city of neighborhoods. The downtown area only receives the most attention because it is the heart of the entire metro region. And without a healthy heart...

But do not be fooled by all the attention downtown and other nearby areas receive. There are countless other little projects scattered thoughout the city going on at any time--they just don't receive any attention from the media. Really, whatever projects you see mentioned here are just the tip of the iceberg.

To put it simply, Milwaukee has alot to offer in a small amount of space yet there are plenty of areas within the city that will be neglected.

As is the case in almost any city. There's only so much that can go around.

Hi Mark!

Nice reply! I don't have enough time to answer it all but I will try to answer this small part that may be the most important.


We do not need to worry about Milwaukee becoming another Indianapolis. Downtown is not the only focus, it never has been, nor will it ever be...for the simple fact that Milwaukee has always been a city of neighborhoods. The downtown area only receives the most attention because it is the heart of the entire metro region. And without a healthy heart...

I've always known Milwaukee to be a city of neighborhoods, in fact it's one of the most segregated cities in America. Each neighborhood seems to take great pride in their area. This is one of the things I find very charming of your city. It's for that expressed reason why I say the "Indy way" is not the way for Milwaukee. Yet with all the news I get I see nothing significant being done to support these neighborhoods. I'm not an activist and believe change needs to be done now but with the direction the city seems to be taking is that the neighborhoods, outside of the downtown area, are being negected. I relealize I'm an outsider so I may not know what's all going on but that is the impression I have. I know great things are happening in places like the downtown, the beerline, the 3rd and 5th wards but what about Bayview? what about Grandville? whatabout the dozens of other neighborhoods that make up the city.

I do hear what you're saying but I need evidence to change my impression.



As is the case in almost any city. There's only so much that can go around.
This is truth

I'm glad everyone is giving their two cents on these topics, it's nice to have some positive discussion brewing on this forum.

From what I see, the large majority of these projects are either useing abandoned buildings and or tareing those abandoned buildings down to make new. Where you probably have a point is that the "new" is turning out to be awefully expensive. You're not going to find too many lower middle income to low income families moving into these developments if at all.

Is this what you and your friend were talking about?

That was the main issue we were talking about. Most of the new development seems to be in the ownership market, and right now there's a lack of affordable condos. They exist, but they're low in numbers in comparison to luxary condos.

I should have been clearer on my original post. RIGHT NOW, I don't see gentrification being a large issue in Milwaukee. In 5 years+, I think it'll be a topic on a lot of peoples minds. As we continue the infill, and see redevelopment on underutilized land, I think the issue will continue to grow.

Here's an interesting question though: the Third Ward and Beerline are filling up, the Fifth Ward is starting to come back...but what comes after that? Assuming that the city keeps improving, what neighborhood is next on the agenda for gentrification?

I don't think gentrification is as large of an issue when we're talking about new development on land where resiential didn't exist (or not in large amount). It would be nice to see a balance between rental and ownership, but that's not the important point to me.

The main issue to me is the after-effects of the new development. Beerline B in new housing, where housing didn't exist or was lacking. I'm not worried about Beerline B, as I am the area between Beerline B and Brady Street. Now that Beerline is at the brink of full development, will new development near it in the future mean tearing down cheap rental properties in order to make way for expensive condos? That's where the concern starts for me. Yes, the housing in that area is lacking, but new developments can mean affordable housing including both rental and ownership.

I know great things are happening in places like the downtown, the beerline, the 3rd and 5th wards but what about Bayview? what about Grandville? whatabout the dozens of other neighborhoods that make up the city.

From what I know, and I could be off but, The Beerline, and 3rd and 5th Ward, are the areas that are experiencing the heavier growth in the city, but growth and new development is not restricted to those areas. New development and growth are popping up everywhere, evidence can be found by just driving around the city.

I'm glad you brought up Bayview. 2 Days ago I passed a very large mixed-use project (corner lot, condos and retail space being sold) going up in Bayview when I was on my way to LuLu Cafe on KK. KK Avenue is blowing up right now with retail. There was a story in a Milwaukee magazine recently (I believe it was the MKE, or possibly the Shepard), that wrote about the wave of businesses fleeing Antiquer's Row (is that the name?) in Chicago to set up shop on KK Avenue. Bayview is seeing some cool stuff right now.

Is there a publication in Milwaukee like InBusiness Magazine does in Madison that occasionally outlines all of the largest businesses in/around town? I've been Googling and haven't come up with much. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

I've always known Milwaukee to be a city of neighborhoods, in fact it's one of the most segregated cities in America. Each neighborhood seems to take great pride in their area. This is one of the things I find very charming of your city.

Well, you want to be careful throwing around the "most segregated city" title--that is used in reference to racial segregation, rather than the sense of "strong neighborhood idenity" (for lack of a better term) that you are really trying to describe. This is very typical of every old-ish city like Milwaukee. So that's not really a problem. In fact, it should be encouraged more.

Yet with all the news I get I see nothing significant being done to support these neighborhoods. I'm not an activist and believe change needs to be done now but with the direction the city seems to be taking is that the neighborhoods, outside of the downtown area, are being negected. I relealize I'm an outsider so I may not know what's all going on but that is the impression I have.

Yes, I would chalk this up to you being an outsider more than anything else. As I said, there's a ton of stuff going on all over the city, it's just that they get very little publicity--which is why you, as an outsider, aren't seeing or hearing anything about it. So many neighborhoods are not neglected of activity...they are neglected of the publicity of activity.

But when some of that activity is publicized about those non-downtown-ish neighbohroods, I usually make it a point to bring it up here, if I have the time.

I know great things are happening in places like the downtown, the beerline, the 3rd and 5th wards but what about Bayview? what about Grandville? whatabout the dozens of other neighborhoods that make up the city.

By the way, the historic Avalon Theater in Bay View--a neat 1920s-era movie palace that closed down a few years ago--just got a new owner who has plans to revive it (the previous owner wanted to fill in the theater seating bowl and convert it into offices). There are other small projects ongoing down there.

As for "Granville Station," the biggest project going on in the Northwest Side, the first phase is either near completion or recently finished. So now Northwest Siders can shop at a new Menard's and Pick N' Save.

Milwaukee County's March unemployment rate was 6 percent, down from 7.1 percent last year.Unemployment falls across the state (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/04/18/daily29.html)

Is there a publication in Milwaukee like InBusiness Magazine does in Madison that occasionally outlines all of the largest businesses in/around town? I've been Googling and haven't come up with much. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

The Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/) does this every once in a while. They'll do different lists--like largest employers, largest construction firms, largest health care providers, etc.

You could also try the Metro Milwaukee Association of Commerce (http://www.mmac.org/). Not really a magazine, but they'd probably have info.

Thanks Markitect. I was vaguely familiar with the Biz Journal, but now I know it's probably the best resource. I appreciate your help.

Yet with all the news I get I see nothing significant being done to support these neighborhoods.

The City just recently began a new program, Main Street Milwaukee, in which significant money and assistance is going to four designated districts.

Check out the program at www.mainstreetmilwaukee.com

The districts are:
35th & National
Lincoln between 6th & 20th
27th Street between St Paul and Highland, and
Burleigh between Sherman and 60th

The program is based on a national model of urban redevelopment that has worked quite well in Boston and DC, as well as a few other cities.

The reason we don't hear as much about projects that happen in the neighborhoods is that they tend to be smaller projects -- a smaller building with retail on the ground floor and a few floors of apartments above is nothing to write home about .... but build several of these on one neighborhood "Main Street" and you've got something going.

Here are a few projects going on right now in the neighborhoods that are worthy of mention:

- King Commons, a mixed use retail and residential building on Martin Luther King and Hadley. Under construction.

-Westpointe, a mixed use building with street level retail and three stories of condos, on 27th & Wells, completed.

- Columbia Square, new construction mixed use on North Avenue and 34th Street. Under construction.

- Rehab of mixed use building with new residential units and retail space a block away on 35th & North.

- Burleigh Enterprise Center, a two story office/retall building on 51st & Burleigh (my neighborhood). Phase 1 complete, phase 2 under construction.

- Rehab of mixed use building into new senior apartments and new retail space on Capitol & Tuetonia. Completed and occupied.

- Bay View Commons, new condo and retail mixed use building on KK & Becher, mentioned earlier by East Sider. Under construction.

These are all small projects that on their own aren't that big of a deal. But taken together, they show that Milwaukee's neighborhoods are far from dormant.

. So now Northwest Siders can shop at a new Menard's and Pick N' Save.

GREAT!! Just what we need over here....another grocery store and home improvement store. They are building a Home Depot now in the former Kmart at 76 and Good Hope. Do we really need another? No...considering there is a huge Home Depot and an even bigger Menards in the Falls...and one off Capitol I believe. As for PicknSave (which I like alot)....they put it in a good location in my opinion.

GREAT!! Just what we need over here....another grocery store and home improvement store. They are building a Home Depot now in the former Kmart at 76 and Good Hope. Do we really need another? No...considering there is a huge Home Depot and an even bigger Menards in the Falls...and one off Capitol I believe. As for PicknSave (which I like alot)....they put it in a good location in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure the Menards will do fine. It isn't actually another home improvement store, its a moved one! :) They just built a new larger store replacing the one that was a few blocks south on 76th.

Personally I'm sad to see my Sears (and the rest of the mall) go... I spent my highschool years working there! BUT... I'd rather have something there instead of the abandoned mall that once stood. well... still does, but they're workin on the rest. Though I hope they find a few more innovative, unique, or atleast useful things to fill up the rest of grandville station.

I miss that place. From what my mom said...the area used to be quite popular.."the in place to be in Milwaukee" back in the late 70's-80's when she was my age. Thats gone, Johnsons Park mini golf/gocarts is gone, the Budget Cinema is gone, Blockbuster is gone, im sure the marcus movie theatre (that I never go to because it sucks now) will be gone soon too. Some may disagree..but I feel the area is starting to ghettofy.

UGH. Who just mentioned The Falls? GROSS. I could be biased, because I grew up there, but that has to be one of the most soulless places in the metro. It gives Brookfield a run for its money. Oak Freaking Creek has more character than Menomonee Falls. [/tangent]

Neph, no need to be so nice to Indy. It's a giant hole, seriously. The downtown is very nice, but it's not like Milwaukee's downtown at all. It's a different breed. It's clean and bland. My favorite quote ever (regarding downtown Indy) came from a rather ubiquitous Ohio forumer who shall remain unnamed. "It's Easton Center with skyscrapers." Heh. And it's true. Downtown Indy is like a big, fancy lifestyle center. I wouldn't worry about Milwaukee becoming anything at all like Indy. We'd have to pull a massive Detroit and tear all of our everything down, lol. ;)

Eastsider - I see what you mean now. I was just in the area you're talking about (Beerline to Brady) taking pictures last Sunday, and it's a really bizarre area. I'd actually never been back in there before, but I liked it. It was quiet, dense, weird, very blue-collar...like a piece of Bayview on the East Side, heh. I remember the thing that really struck me -- there was a neighborhood bar right in the middle of all of these old wood-frame houses (it was in a house, actually), and then I turned the corner and there were new condos going up next to some run-down old buildings across the street from a garage covered in "I closed Wolski's" stickers. I'd be sad to see that part of town gentrified.

Btw, I just remembered to ask -- there's a large building that was apparently just torn down right across the river from the Beerline...my memory is failing me. Does anyone know what I'm talking about and what was torn down? I was upset when I saw it -- I vaguely remember there being an old brick industrial building there, and I'm afraid that they've torn it down for some godawful plastic condo pile.

UGH. Who just mentioned The Falls? GROSS. I could be biased, because I grew up there, but that has to be one of the most soulless places in the metro. It gives Brookfield a run for its money. Oak Freaking Creek has more character than Menomonee Falls. [/tangent]

Neph, no need to be so nice to Indy. It's a giant hole, seriously. The downtown is very nice, but it's not like Milwaukee's downtown at all. It's a different breed. It's clean and bland. My favorite quote ever (regarding downtown Indy) came from a rather ubiquitous Ohio forumer who shall remain unnamed. "It's Easton Center with skyscrapers." Heh. And it's true. Downtown Indy is like a big, fancy lifestyle center. I wouldn't worry about Milwaukee becoming anything at all like Indy. We'd have to pull a massive Detroit and tear all of our everything down, lol. ;)

Eastsider - I see what you mean now. I was just in the area you're talking about (Beerline to Brady) taking pictures last Sunday, and it's a really bizarre area. I'd actually never been back in there before, but I liked it. It was quiet, dense, weird, very blue-collar...like a piece of Bayview on the East Side, heh. I remember the thing that really struck me -- there was a neighborhood bar right in the middle of all of these old wood-frame houses (it was in a house, actually), and then I turned the corner and there were new condos going up next to some run-down old buildings across the street from a garage covered in "I closed Wolski's" stickers. I'd be sad to see that part of town gentrified.

Btw, I just remembered to ask -- there's a large building that was apparently just torn down right across the river from the Beerline...my memory is failing me. Does anyone know what I'm talking about and what was torn down? I was upset when I saw it -- I vaguely remember there being an old brick industrial building there, and I'm afraid that they've torn it down for some godawful plastic condo pile.


The building you're refferring to was part of the Gallun tannery. That's been in the works for a long time. I think they wanted to save the building, but it just wasn't feasible.

[QUOTE=CG5]UGH. Who just mentioned The Falls? GROSS. I could be biased, because I grew up there, but that has to be one of the most soulless places in the metro. It gives Brookfield a run for its money. Oak Freaking Creek has more character than Menomonee Falls. [/tangent]

[QUOTE]

i dont care for the falls either (I work there :sleepy: ) but it aint that bad. Its much better than Oak Creek. The downtown is kinda nice...decent stores...nice parks...its growing...its safe....etc. Its pretty good in terms of suburbs.

Downtown Menomonee Falls?? What? Ahem...

yellow = "historic" buildings
green = strip malls
blue = junior high (which explains some of the parking, at least)
read = surface lots
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/suburbanmonkey50/FourCorners.jpg

Decent stores? Sure, if you cound Menards. But it is safe. And growing, unfortunately. I'll take Oak Creek any day, lol.

I made the map a while ago, and I missed a few surface lots. But you get the idea.

I agree. Monotony Falls has about as much character as a brown paper bag.

Actually, I think Brookfield isn't so bad. They've been trying to inject a little more character into the community, with some actual density in the Ruby Isle area on North Avenue and Calhoun. And there are some older neighborhoods in Brookfield that are actually pretty homey with tree lined streets and such.

^ Yeah. Just stay away from the soul-sucking votex of Bluemound Road, lol. ;)

come on...it could be much worse. The downtown is quite nice and walkable with a little antique store, flower shops, resturants (Maiden Voyage I believe), and a bunch of other nice shops in that small area. There is also the nice little park in the middle and the waterfall down the road. The downtown also boasts one of metro Milwaukees best comic book shops (Arcade). I agree that once you get down the hill on Appleton or County Line--it blows. Its a nice suburb...I dont see what the problem is other than the a great number of old buildings or high density--which you dont find in most suburbs. Being a resident of the northwest side of Milwaukee...I am glad its there. It has nice shops and large stores, actual resturants, a good movie theater, good bowling alleys (Krugers Entertainment Center, AMF), probally nicer bars, nice places to mini golf/drive, comic and gaming shops, some arts shops, and the list goes on. It simply offers more to me as a shopper or a guy looking for a good time. The northwest side is all houses, car dealerships, factories, repair shops, chicken or Chicago style hot dog shacks schools, and parks that happen to be overcrowded at EVERY basketball court in summer. The only reason a person should come to this area for fun is if they want to see the Wave United play at Uilhein Field.

Yes, and The Falls is just BURSTING with activity...? Not really. I spent 17 years of my life there, and calling downtown walkable makes me laugh a little. Because NO ONE walks it. "Downtown" Menomonee Falls doesn't really exist so much. There's the Four Corners area, which is the area in that pic, but seriously...no. It's just...no. The only thing to do in MF after 8 pm is to sit in The Odyssey or George Webb's (with the WORST service I've found in the entire metro, thus far at least...if you haven't been abused, you haven't eaten there) and smoke yourself into oblivion, to the point where you can't tell where you are anymore. It's a hole.

LOL, that was funny!

Anyway...thanks guys for showing me that downtown isn't the only place recieveing attention. So if none of us really believes that Milwaukee wont sufer from gentrification or what I have suggested earlier, then in a word or phrase, how would you discribe the path Milwaukee is on? Is there a term for it? Could we just say that Milwaukee is becomeing progressive?

its nice...thats all Ill say bout that. However, the best suburb is Glendale...followed by Tosa. Glendale pisses all over any of the southern burbs and even the white trash breeding pit we have all come to know and love as West Allis. Just joking..west allis is ok..but alot of the people there just make me laugh. The only people I ever see in West Allis are white trash, wannbe gangsta thugs, crazy old people-everywhere, and factory/construction workers thrown in. Oh yeah, alot of the people Ive talked to there are imbeciles. Am I the only one who notices that?

So if none of us really believes that Milwaukee wont sufer from gentrification or what I have suggested earlier, then in a word or phrase, how would you discribe the path Milwaukee is on? Is there a term for it? Could we just say that Milwaukee is becomeing progressive?

Make no mistake, there are most definitely parts of Milwaukee that are experiencing gentrification (the restoration and upgrading of deteriorated urban property by middle-class or affluent people, often resulting in displacement of lower-income people). It is probably not as pronounced as in other cities, but it is happening here.

The Third Ward has received tons of attention, and not all of those condo/office conversions have taken place in abandoned buildings. In many cases, those buildings have been occupied, at least partially, by previous businesses and residents. Before the condo/office craze, the Third Ward was a relatively inexpensive loft district mixed with small businesses and industries. Improvements in the area drive up the rents, and those who cannot afford it must move out (or those who want to cash in on the opportunity to redevelop).

The same thing is a concern in the Beerline area. While development has taken place on land that was a vacated railroad corridor, it still affects properties further up the bluff. Nearby property values rise, so owners will have to pay more, landlords have to up their rents, and those areas become a little more unaffordable to certain income levels--all because the vacant land down the hill sprouted with condos.

There are obvious benefits to gentrification (the restoration and upgrading of deteriorated neighborhoods), but there are some troubling side-effects as well (the displacement of lower-income people). So a delicate balance is probably the greatest challenge. Gentrification is really a natural phenomenon for cities--a healthy sign, actually--but trying to figure out the delicate balance is the key challenge.

As for a term or phrase that could describe what's going on in Milwaukee, there probably isn't one single thing that could be used. Describing what Milwaukee is going through as "progressive" is not quite accurate, because we've already established that positive things are happening, but there are still plenty of negatives going on at the same time (see previous comments from myself and Milwaukeeunseen elsewhere). Like just about any city, it is being pulled in several different directions. While one area is on the incline, another is on the decline. It's organic. It's natural. It's what a city is supposed to do; cities have had upswings and downswings since ancient people decided to start making cities.

True. But the general trend right now seems to be "upswing." No one's dumb enough to claim that everything here is peachy keen, but I think we can all agree that Milwaukee is in much better shape now than it was, say, fifteen years ago. I'm just saying.

I'm not going to pretend that I know all about gentrification and its side-effects. But it seems to me that Milwaukee is only gentrifying a very small portion of the city - mainly the parts along the lakefront. While gentrification may shift (and/or shuffle) the city's economic demographics, I doubt that the overall effects will be bad.

Here's my theory: there are certain areas that will always serve certain purposes. The areas around Marquette and UWM will always remain relatively affordable, because they're largely populated by students. But once those students graduate, they move away to make room for new students. Normally (assuming that they stay in the city), they'd move to somewhere like, say, Walker's Point. But now WP is being gentrified, so recent graduates may not be able to afford said area. Instead, they'll move somewhere else. Historic Mitchell Street, perhaps (which is, itself, starting to see some signs of gentrification.) That's kind of how gentrification spreads, or so I've been told. I've always heard that artists and young professionals are the stormtroopers for gentrification. So as they move out, they spruce up an area and prep it for the developers, who then move in and redevelop the area and sell it to rich people. Heh.

But there will ALWAYS be room for poor people in the city.


ReddAlert - Glendale? I'd say Shorewood or Tosa before Glendale, though it is nice.

^There is a lot of truth to your observation about artists. Typically, artists tend to seek out certain locations that have a degree of character but are also affordable. Wicker Park in Chicago is a classic example. A couple of decades or so ago, Wicker Park was about as bad as Spanish Harlem. Gangs essentially owned the streets and murders were common. But, over time, artists and other members of the so-called bohemian community began moving in because of low rents. The area slowly became attractive to other "pioneers." The influx of new residents was so steady that, today, few artists still live in Wicker Park because they can't afford it. They, along with the strong Puerto Rican community that once persisted, are largely absent. Only on the very fringes of the neighborhood are Latin minorities still present.

And this anecdote touches on one of the predominant causes of gentrification: the rent gap. When a neighborhood with low rental values becomes increasingly attractive for various reasons, such as its proximity to jobs, speculation begins over the rental values that would prevail were the housing improved and made amenable to individuals of higher incomes. A gap emerges between the rents an area of deteriorated buildings and low-income residents can generate and the prospective rents that the area could generate were it completely renovated to its highest and best use. When this rent gap is sufficiently large enough, gentrification may then be initiated. Landlords in low-income communities who had chronically neglected their properties suddenly have a strong incentive to reinvest capital in their buildings and rehabilitate them for re-rental or resale to more upscale tenants and owners. And, in a general sense, that's what gentrification is: a redirection of investment toward a given area with the attending consequences of displacement, etc.

Of course, the hand of gentrification can be more intentional than just disparate elements working in a kind of uncoordinated collaboration toward the larger goal of gentrification. Chicago’s north-side Lincoln Park neighborhood is a striking example of a completely gentrified community. At the same time former Mayor Richard M. Daley was unveiling his ambitious “Chicago Plan 21” around 1973, Lincoln Park was already a well-established Hispanic, predominantly Puerto Rican, community. The plan, a massive redevelopment project designed to replace poor, ethnic neighborhoods with upscale housing and commercial districts, was eagerly applied to Lincoln Park. With support from top city leaders, real estate developers engaged in a systematic practice of purchasing lower-income housing and improving it to a point which rendered it unaffordable for the working-class to continue living there. The large Puerto Rican population was forced west in search of more affordable housing, eventually settling in various northwest side neighborhoods such as Humboldt Park and Logan Square. Today, few traces of Lincoln Park’s past as a Puerto Rican barrio remain. It is of the most economically exclusive communities in Chicago. Take it from me, I live there. But I came well after gentrification had been completed and ignorant to the fact that it had even take place. I'm probably one of the poorest people who lives there, being from a middle-class, blue-collar Milwaukee family--my father didn't even graduate from college. And I'll probably be leaving soon as student loans from law school begin to come due, or else I'll fall into arrears.

I was just at the Page and was searching deep in the photo section and finally saw the first thread you were talking bout CG5. I don't know about you or anybody else but I say that bare f*ucking bones thread is your very best!

You show the same amount of character in the photos you chose to take as the city itself!

Please tell me, when will your next thread be comeing?

speaking of poor people, I was in the GHETTO on saturday picking up some delicious bbq sandwiches at speed queen. Got lost on the way home, and ended up in that really really really scary area just south of north and around 20th or 25th streets. The one area that looks like Dresden in 1945...that one. Little Beriut. It's a damn shame. That 10 or so square block area probably ranks up there with some of the most inhospitable places I've seen in the US. Felt totally unsafe. Glad to see just a few blocks south, some very nice, even middle-class infill going up near Johnsons park.

But that one area...it was actually quite shocking.

The University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee has asked the State Building Commission to borrow $112 million for the possible purchase and renovation of Columbia Hospital. The hospital is located right across the street from UWM's campus, and will close in 2009-2010 as part of a hospital consoldation project with St. Mary's Hospital. Space-cramped UWM has been eyeing the Columbia complex as a logical way to expand the university campus for more classrooms, offices, dorms, and parking--but the final decision will be made as part of the ongoing campus master planning process. However, the borrowing request shows State officials that UWM is serious about the consideration. The funding and expansion requests would have to pass approval from the State Building Commission as well as the State Legislature.

More in the Business Journal: UWM wants cash for Columbia - Bonding $112 million would enable hospital deal (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/04/25/story1.html)


***


The Business Journal also has a related article about the Columbia-St. Mary's Hospital consoldation. It recaps the progress so far, including the announcement of the Prospect Medical Commons from a few weeks ago, as well as some of the cut-backs that have been made over the past couple of years concerning neighborhod compatability issues and the switch from a complete demolition and rebuild to the current a partial demolition and rebuild that will save the older historic hospital buildings. Full details are to be revealed later this year.

Columbia finally moving ahead with consolidation plans - Hospital system to unveil 'smaller' plans to merge Columbia, St. Mary's this fall (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/04/25/focus4.html)


***


The National Liquor Bar, long a South Side icon, will be demolished this fall to make way for a new Walgreen's and other retailers. The bar's owner has decided not to relocate. All of the buildings along W. National Avenue between S. 26th and S. Layton Boulevard will be razed for the project, however, five businesses in that stretch will relocate elsewhere.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/mar03/goulbig032303.jpg
^ This local landmark will be knocked down for a Walgreen's.

The Walgreen's project is the first of what commnity leaders hope will be a series of redevelopments along that part of National Avenue. It is part of the new "Main Street Milwaukee" initiative--a program which will provide technical and financial assistance designated older, traditional neighborhood commercial districts in the city.

The Department of City Development found the original Walgreen's proposal unsatifactoy, and encouraged the developers to rework the site design, building design, and parking lot. The revised plans call for a 15,000 sq ft Walgreen's store at the corner of National and 26th. Developers also agreed to build a 1000 sq ft retail building at the corner of National and Layton (27th); original plans had parking at that busy intersection.

Read about it in the Business Journal: National Liquor barred -Landmark to fall for Walgreens (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/04/25/story2.html)


***

Milwaukee County officials invited 250 developers a request for proposals for a 2-acre site in the Park East corridor. They only received two proposals.

The County's decision to impose a community benefits agreement on land it owns in the Park East corridor may be the reason for the less-than-enthusiastic response. The benefits agreement requires developers to provide both construction jobs at union-level wages and affordable housing--a restriction certain politicians and real estate experts claimed could detract developers from proposing projects on County-owned land because of the added costs incurred.

Boulder Venture proposed a mixed-use building with ground floor retail and four floors of condos/apartments. RSC & Associates also submitted a proposal for the County land.

At the same time, the City of Milwaukee received 6 proposals for a less-than-one-acre parcel it owns in the corridor, land which is not subject to a benefits agreement. Lat year, the City rejected a policy for a benefits agreement for City-owned property in the corridor.

The County and City are in the process of reviewing their respective proposals, and will make their decisions in the coming months.

From the Business Journal: Controversy limits interest in Park East (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/04/25/story3.html)


***

The Scion Group, a Chicago-based developer, would like to build more student housing for Milwaukee's colleges--particularly at off-campus locations in or near downtown that could be used by students from all area colleges. With that in mind, the firm currently has bids on buildings in the Third Ward and West Town neighborhoods.

The firm is currently converting the Bockl Building, a former medical office building on W. Wisconsin Avenue, into student housing units for nearby Marquette University.


Also, the City is seeking a request for proposals for an empty industrial building in the Riverworks Business Improvement District on W. Capitol Drive. The City would like to sell to a developer who will open a commercial or service business on the site.

From the Business Journal: Real Estate Roundup (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/04/25/newscolumn2.html?page=1)

I had heard that several community organizations on the South Side tried to rally the neighborhood to save the National Liquor Bar, but that people in the neighborhood really never got on board. They wanted it gone. Honestly, the NLB has a wonderful sign, but anyone who wants to save that place has probably never actually been inside the place. I went in once out of curiosity due to all the publicity, and all I can say is, never again. That place is a nexus of all kinds of human vice. Aggressive panhandling, people trying to sell stolen goods, shriveled old men slumping over on their bar stools, crackheads.... you name it, if it's one of Milwaukee's pressing social problems, it is in National Liquor Bar in full force. I know if I lived around there I'd want to see that place demolished.

It's nice to see a step with the UWM and Columbia Hospital situation. I hope all goes well, and the university aquires it. It's hard to say what they'll use it for though. The obvious answer would be housing, but the neighborhood (and the alderman) have made their point clear, they don't want anymore housing on campus. Maybe we'll see a growth or introduction of a new program or school to UWM, both options could be exciting.

Alderman D'Amato, who does not support the idea of UWM buying the hospital outright, does make a valid point, though.

Scenario One: Hospital is sold to the uniersity. UWM renovates it to serve as classroom, office, housing, retail, and parking space. Since the university owns the property, the land is tax-exempt and does not generate any revenue for the City.

Scenario Two: Hospital is sold to a private developer. Developer renovates it to serve as classroom, office, housing, retail, and parking space which would be made available for UWM to lease. Since the property would be privately owned, it would generate tax revenue for the City.

In the first scenario, there is only one winner--the university. The second scenario is win-win for UWM and the City.

^The second scenerio can only work if the developer develops something that is beneficial to UWM, if it builds condos (like the new ones on the other side of the dorms that were recently built) UWM doesn't benefit at all. With ownership of the property, UWM can have the freedom to choosee what will benefit it the most. Isn't it important we continue to strengethen that university so it can continue to postively influence Milwaukee?

On the other hand revenue for the city is both important and NEEDED. My opinion could swing both ways on this topic.

There's not really a whole lot of development pressure in the UWM neighborhood to build condos (the recently-built ones across the street in Shorewood are an exception because, well, they're in Shorewood). Any smart developer can realize UWM needs more housing for students, and that it definitely needs more parking, and that there's a potential for close-by retail--and there might even be a need for classroom and office space. And the City knows this too. Realizing that, a cooperative effort could be made between a private developer, the University, and the City to make something work. This also would allow UWM to utilize parts of the hospital without having the finacial responsibility of buying it outright, renovating it into something useable, and maintaining it. Whatever space UWM would not lease could be leased out to other users. As for housing, that could be arranged not as dorms, but like regular apartments, available for anybody to rent--but since it's in a college neighborhood (i.e. a built-in resident market), it would essentially work just like all the other off-campus rental properties in the area. The Columbia site has big potential, and some out-of-the-box thinking should be in order.

^Out-of-the-box thinking is something UWM needs. That makes sense, thanks for the explanation.

Just curious how you guys see the effect of the new Hurricane Harbor water park at Great America on the Milw market?

Six Flags is banking on it keeping people close to home for day trips for those who want to go to a major water park without going to the Dells. They don't really expect to hurt the Dells so much as to cash in on a close-by water park.

That should work well for Chicago, but how about Milwaukee (as with everything at Great America, what it does keeps both metro's in mind):

will your closeness to the Dells compared to ours mean that the new water park won't get much Milw business, or do you think that the park's proximity for a day trips (as opposed to destination trip like the Dells) will keep Milwaukeeans coming in large numbers the same way that Chicagoans will?

I suspect closeness to Milw will make you guys head south on 94 as we head north, Dells or no Dells.

There was a big story on that in the JSentienel on sunday. Personally, I think that it wont affect it THAT much. The Dells has so much more to offer really as a tourist destination than Gurnee does. Sure, it has the mall and Six Flags...but other than that...I cant see a reason to stay there for more than a day. Im sure that most families in Chicagoland feel the same way...because its like taking a vacation in a suburb. A Dells summer vacation is a summer tradition to families in Illinois/Wisconsin/and Minn to an extent. Theres so much more to do...for every age. Alot of these people dont even go to the waterparks...they just go to one of the huge resort waterparks (such as the Wilderness or Kalahari) and get more bang for their buck. This Six Flags park is going to be very expensive for one day. They are doing the same thing in Milwaukee. I believe it was Markitect who said they are building an animal themed park at the Zoo to draw away from the Dells. Sure, the Dells is not cool for most urbanists on this site...but I still have a great time there.

I agree. Recently the Dells has really secured itself as a family vacation area, I think Gurnee will take some numbers away, but the Dells (like it always done) will just build something bigger and flashier (regardless of how tacky it is). That's how it's always survived.

Personally I'd take a day trip to Gurnee over The Dells (it's closer), but for weekend to longer-term vacations, I still think The Dells will hold it's ground as a regional attracter.

The Dells is actually is going to compete with Gurnee now. I hear they are building roller coasters at Big Cheif.

Mayor Barrett and County Executive Walker are at odds over what the State and Federal government should do with the money they receive from the sale of County-owned land in the Park East corridor.

Walker has been pushing to have that money used to demolish the agiang Courthouse Annex parking sturcture which sits atop the northbound lanes of I-43. Walker believes the annex could be structurally weakened due to the nearby Marquette Interchange construction work that will be going on beneath the building for the next three years. He also says it would cost several million dollars just to maintain the building into the near future if it remained in place. Hence, it would make sense to demolish the annex when that part of the freeway is closed for interchange reconstruction, and a new COunty building couldbe built elsewhere as a replacement. The State has said in the past if the Coutny wants the Annex demolished, the County should pay for it. Waler's proposal has received lukewarm reception from County supervisors as well.

Meanwhile, Barrett has proposed that procedes of Park East land sales could be used to help remodel the downtown Amtrak station into a train and bus terminal. WisDOT's current plan for the station have been met with opposition from City officals for it's lackluster architecture, poor urban design, and trying to cram too many uses into the existing building. Under Barrett's proposal, the Department of City Development would work together with WisDOT's architects and devleopers to create a more appropriately designed urban train/bus terminal (with a modernistic facade, an exciting atrium, and a mixed-use parking garage to replace surface parking lots). While no new designs have been worked up, such a project would undoubtedly cost more than the current $4.5 million WisDOT design. Under Barrett's proposal, a better stattion could be designed using some or all of the estimated $9.9 million of State/Federal money from Park East land sales, plus $5 million worth of tax incremental financing from the City.

An existing deal between the State, County, and City procliams that State/Federal money received from Park East Land sales must toward transportaion projects within Milwaukee County in accordance of a federal highway funding law. Under that law, however, highway finds can be used for intercity bus stations (which is a component of the Amtrak station makeover).

Read it in the Journal Sentinel: Park East money in sights of both Barrett, Walker - It could fund Amtrak station upgrade or garage teardown (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/apr05/321642.asp)

I agree. Monotony Falls has about as much character as a brown paper bag.

Actually, I think Brookfield isn't so bad. They've been trying to inject a little more character into the community, with some actual density in the Ruby Isle area on North Avenue and Calhoun. And there are some older neighborhoods in Brookfield that are actually pretty homey with tree lined streets and such.


I would agree. I work in Monotony Falls and live on a tree-lined street in Brookfield.

Brookfield is trying to build the character of a small town. One thing I have to give them credit for is the massive array of bike trails. In a couple years, everything in Brookfield will be accessible to bikes. Brookfield's character struggles from the giant gash down the middle of it named Bluemound Road.

Elm Grove is another story, that's a small hidden gem in suburbia.

One suburb with no character so far is New Berlin. Although they are trying to manufacture a 'downtown' near Moreland and National.

Come on Barrett, I wanna see the Amtrak upgrade...

Come on Barrett, I wanna see the Amtrak upgrade...

It would be ideal if both projects would happen, somehow.

Demolishing the Coutrhouse Annex means getting rid of an ugly behemoth of a building (one that is becoming a money hole to upkeep). It would also mean the County offices and parking would have to go someplace else--possibly in a new building on MacArthur Square (which in turn, hopefully would lead to a whole overhaul of that horribly awful public space), or perhaps in PabstCity (which would give a boost to that project).

As we've discussed beofre, the WisDOT remodeling plan for the Amtrak station is absolutely horrible. It is clear that nobody at WisDOT has much of a clue when it comes to designing proper rail and bus facilities--which goes to show just how much the agency is devoted to highway-only transportation policies. A better-designed train/bus depot--one worthy of being a great civic place--would be a catalyst for redevloping the rest of the area around the station.

^I agree both would be ideal, but do you think it'll happen?

There was a big story on that in the JSentienel on sunday. Personally, I think that it wont affect it THAT much. The Dells has so much more to offer really as a tourist destination than Gurnee does. Sure, it has the mall and Six Flags...but other than that...I cant see a reason to stay there for more than a day. Im sure that most families in Chicagoland feel the same way...because its like taking a vacation in a suburb. A Dells summer vacation is a summer tradition to families in Illinois/Wisconsin/and Minn to an extent. Theres so much more to do...for every age. Alot of these people dont even go to the waterparks...they just go to one of the huge resort waterparks (such as the Wilderness or Kalahari) and get more bang for their buck. This Six Flags park is going to be very expensive for one day. They are doing the same thing in Milwaukee. I believe it was Markitect who said they are building an animal themed park at the Zoo to draw away from the Dells. Sure, the Dells is not cool for most urbanists on this site...but I still have a great time there.

Redd, no argument from me; Six Flags couldn't compete with the Dells if it tried. But my original point was will Milw use the new water park the way that Chgo will: as a day trip, a place within the metro area for a whole day (or even an afternoon) of fun.

Great America is midway betwen Chgo and Milw so theoretically it is a popular destination for both cities. And it is a most reasonable day trip destination for Milwaukeeans, something the Dells are not.

My real question though was the appeal of the Gr Amer water park greater for Chicagoans than Milwaukeeans because Milw is closer to the Dells than Chgo.?

As I said, I suspect Milw will use the new water pk they way Chgo will.....and both cities will continue to send folks to the Dells in the enormous numbers they now do.

Yeah, I will be casting my vote for a better Amtrak station as well, thankyouverymuch. If it came between the 2, that would easily be my choice. It seems like a better use of money to build something new than tear something down, regardless of how it looks. Besides, if the annex was demolished, there would be no more whale wall!!!! That would be a terrible loss! [/sarcasm]

Tear down that monstrosity over the freeway at any cost. Better to wait for a more rail-friendly federal government, or spend more time scaring up funding, than to build on a shoestring and inevitably end up with something third rate again. San Francisco is a remarkable city, yet it has a bare-bones rail terminal and a decrepit, and probably dangerous, bus station, and it's still a remarkable city. Let's get rid of our most visible and embarrassing eyesore, instead of adding yet another.

Returning to the question of "if it's not gentrification what is it?", maybe in Milwaukee it is something different: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/DPWP.jpg

Tear down that monstrosity over the freeway at any cost. Better to wait for a more rail-friendly federal government, or spend more time scaring up funding, than to build on a shoestring and inevitably end up with something third rate again. San Francisco is a remarkable city, yet it has a bare-bones rail terminal and a decrepit, and probably dangerous, bus station, and it's still a remarkable city. Let's get rid of our most visible and embarrassing eyesore, instead of adding yet another.

Nice pictures. It appears to me that they're trying to go with almost a State Street look (Chicago's, looksee,not yours in Madison). I wonder if that was the intention. Its a look that, to me, would work very well on Wisconsin Ave

Yes, it was intentional, considering SOM did the streetscaping designs for Chciago and Milwaukee.

^I am the only one that doesn't see a difference between the two pictures, streetscape wise?

Looksee Photoshopped it to look that way.

My real question though was the appeal of the Gr Amer water park greater for Chicagoans than Milwaukeeans because Milw is closer to the Dells than Chgo.?


The Dells is far enough from milwaukee to make it more then just a day trip, just as it would obviously be for anyone from chicago. This in mind I think the Dells would have little influence on how many people went to the new park from milwaukee in comparison to chicago.

Besides, if the annex was demolished, there would be no more whale wall!!!! That would be a terrible loss! [/sarcasm]

hey wait... I like the whales... :uh:

does that make me weird...?

I would still like to see the parking structure go though!

^ Yes. Unquestionably weird. Unless you're, like, a 14-year-old girl.

^Ha. The whales are fine to look at and all, but it is like a giant poster masquerading as art. Every city's got a whale wall. Unoriginal, if you ask me.

The City's efforts to create a business park at the western end of the Menomonee Valley have started to pay off. Palermo Villa Inc., a fast-growing frozen pizza business, announced plans to consolidate operations onto a 14-acre site near the 35th Street Viaduct. The company's current facilities are on Milwaukee's South Side and suburban Chicago.

Pending approval from the Redevelopment Authority and Common Council, Palmero Villa hopes to start construction on the 100,000-square-foot facility this fall. The City's sustainable design guidelines will be incorpoated into the building's architecture.

From the Journal Sentinel: Valley business park lands first project - Palermo Villa to build, consolidate frozen pizza making operations (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/apr05/322243.asp)

The story of Farwell Avenue's revival was highlighted in today's Journal Sentinel. This major srteet on the East Side has always been relatively active and diverse, but had certainly seen better days a few decades ago. More recently, the street has seen a renaissance, with new construction, renovations, streetscaping, and impending gentrification--and the trend will continue into the forseeable future.

See the Journal Sentinel for the full story: East side revival story - No longer Prospect Ave.'s 'ugly stepsister,' Farwell Ave. is enjoying a boom in development (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/apr05/322526.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/may05/farwell.two0501_big.jpg
^ An aerial view of The Sterling condo/retail building going up along N. Farwell Avenue, which runs-left-to-right behind the construction site in this shot.

I like the Dirty Brown Whales too! Save the Dirty Brown Whales!

how tall will the Sterling Condos be?

Hey, did you guys hear... "if downtown were closer to the lake" Milwaukee would have a better downtown?

how tall will the Sterling Condos be?

Eleven stories.


Hey, did you guys hear... "if downtown were closer to the lake" Milwaukee would have a better downtown?

Damn you, early white settlers of Milwaukee for wanting to build your pioneer village a little ways inland, upstream on the river where your boats could be protected, where your docks were safe to build, and where your early industries could easliy draw water power, instead of building right on the lakeshore, where such important amenities were inconvenient or non existant!

Ditto for Chicago.

I guess outsiders--at least the completly clueless kind--don't realize that the lakefront is the edge of downtown, and not the center, because it was not practical to build on the lake in the frontier days.

The Marquette Gold huh?

It's the worst name ever. I can't be a Marquette Gold fan. They need to change it. It's absolutely horrible.

Markitect, (or anyone who may know)

Should we be concerned that PabstCity will have a Disney World type atmosphere with all the new buildings trying to look like they are historic and old? I hope there is modern architecture mixed in with the past.

The Marquette Gold huh?
What a horrible horrible name.

Should we be concerned that PabstCity will have a Disney World type atmosphere with all the new buildings trying to look like they are historic and old? I hope there is modern architecture mixed in with the past.

Yes, that is a concern. Because the Pabst brewery complex has been designated a historic district, any development there is supposed to fall under the guidelines of the Historic Preservation Commission. And basically those guidelines usually call for new buildings that try to look like they are historic and old. They state that the building materials should be consistent with what's already there, and that new buildings should maintain the same appearance as the existing buildings in the area.

Those guidelines could be rewritten to encourage more contemporary architecture, while still keeping in with the same scale and proportions of the older buildings.

The current polling on the Marquette Gold nickname from the JS:

So ... do you like the nickname 'Gold'?

No (94.1%)

Yes (5.9%)

Total votes: 26,570"

LOL, did they give any thought to the possibility that people will overwhelmingly think this is the dumbest nickname ever?

The current polling on the Marquette Gold nickname from the JS:

So ... do you like the nickname 'Gold'?

No (94.1%)

Yes (5.9%)

Total votes: 26,570"

LOL, did they give any thought to the possibility that people will overwhelmingly think this is the dumbest nickname ever?
LOL, :lol: It boggles my mind that they even attempted to do this. LOL "the Gold" What in the hell are they doing? are they trying to prove themselves as being the dumbest university in the midwest or what? My God!
This has got to end. If it takes rioting and or being arrested I'm game, just let me know when and where...

Hey Redd and edsg25, looks like we finally have a real rivalry between the Cubies and the Brewers huh? What a series!

I'm quickly becoming a baseball fan again!

yeah definely man. I was at the game last night...and the atmosphere was amazing. Cubs fans cheering when a guy wearing a Brewers hat was taken away by some sheriffs. Cubs fans against Sox fans in the crowd.....it was fun. However the Brew crew got the last laugh..sweeping the Cubbies :) ..taking 2nd place.

I was suprised to see the age of most of the fans there...most were young people. The atmosphere is more fun when you have a large number of younger Cubs and Brewers fans...rather than the mainly middle aged and older people at Packers games.

I was suprised to see the age of most of the fans there...most were young people. The atmosphere is more fun when you have a large number of younger Cubs and Brewers fans...rather than the mainly middle aged and older people at Packers games.
Watch what you say there! I just had another birthday the other day!

I was at the Cincy game last Saturday when the crew came from behind to win it. I'll tell you what, it's a good thing they did because the crowd was getting rather hostile and down right riotous. We had one lady in front of us who got booted out!

Word up, Miller Park now has Milwaukee cops on hand so it's best to be on your best behavior...

I drove pass the University Club Tower construction site and they got the pilelings for the first floor set in! Whoo Hoo!!!

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0506/4457018_200X150.jpg
MILWAUKEE -- A Milwaukee landmark is getting a makeover.

Home and Garden Television has given the Pabst Mansion $25,000 to rebuild its original pavilion.

It's part of the network's "Restore America: A Salute to Preservation."

The initiative is to restore and raise awareness about historic preservation.

The Pabst Mansion will be featured on an upcoming show.

It was one of 12 sites nationwide awarded grant money to make improvements.

The Milwaukee Channel.com (http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/entertainment/4456835/detail.html)

Just a side note, Redd and I both have pictures in the Urban Photo Contest of Milwaukee. MILWUAKEE REPRESENT! ha

U.S. Bank committed to civic ventures despite sudden departure of president
....He also promoted the bank's plans to build a companion office tower to the U.S. Bank Center in downtown Milwaukee. LINK (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/05/02/story2.html)

Barrett's pledge for regional cooperation
Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett has pledged to include $100,000 in the 2006 city budget to help form a regional organization to spur economic development throughout southeastern Wisconsin.LINK (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/05/02/editorial1.html)

Manufacturing firm to leave Milwaukee for Germantown
Illing Co. has acquired two manufacturing buildings in the village of Germantown and will move its operations from the city of Milwaukee. LINK (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/05/02/newscolumn2.html)

Agreement reached on PabstCity funding
The city of Milwaukee and the developers of PabstCity have reached an agreement on a $39 million tax incremental financing district that could finally allow the $317 million mixed-use project downtown to move forward. LINK (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/05/02/daily33.html)

New York group offers plan for Park East
A group of national real estate developers has asked Milwaukee County to combine 4 acres it owns in the Park East corridor so the firms can propose a larger project than the county previously sought. LINK (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/05/02/story3.html)

South side renovation project effort begins
A Chicago bakery will relocate to Milwaukee's south side this summer to anchor a $530,000 renovation project on National Avenue. LINK (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/05/02/daily26.html)

City gets $550,000 to aid low-income residents
The funds, in two grants from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), will be used to help residents move from welfare to work, Barrett said. The grants will be used for heightened outreach efforts, greater occupational training -- as well as to assist with such employment-related issues as transportation and day care. LINK (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/05/02/daily28.html)

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0506/4457018_200X150.jpg
MILWAUKEE -- A Milwaukee landmark is getting a makeover.

Home and Garden Television has given the Pabst Mansion $25,000 to rebuild its original pavilion.

It's part of the network's "Restore America: A Salute to Preservation."

The initiative is to restore and raise awareness about historic preservation.

The Pabst Mansion will be featured on an upcoming show.

It was one of 12 sites nationwide awarded grant money to make improvements.

The Milwaukee Channel.com (http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/entertainment/4456835/detail.html)

Just a side note, Redd and I both have pictures in the Urban Photo Contest of Milwaukee. MILWUAKEE REPRESENT! ha

[Cartman's Voice]Kiiiick-ass!!![/Cartman's Voice]

U.S. Bank committed to civic ventures despite sudden departure of president
....He also promoted the bank's plans to build a companion office tower to the U.S. Bank Center in downtown Milwaukee. LINK (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/05/02/story2.html)
I wonder just how committed they will be in this now? I mean it was Andy Randall who promoted this in the first place.

Great news on the Pabst City TIF. Finally this thing can start poppin'. I wonder how the reconstruction of the interchange will affect construction, however. Will there even be an available staging area?

When is Pabst City supposed to be done?

Developers want to open PabstCity by Labor Day 2007.

They'll likely work on it in phases, so I doubt the whole thing will be finished by then. It's more likely they'll get the big tenants in there first (the movie theater, Sega Gameworks, and the House of Blues) for that target date, and work on the rest of it in subsequent phases.

I'm really excited. That's what Milwaukeean really didn't have. A "hip" downtown area to bring people downtown. That, and the renovation of the hideous pabst buildings, will be awesome. It'll totally change Milwaukee.

Are there any pictures of what it will look like?

So Milwaukee is definitely getting an ESPN Zone and House of Blues? I think the House of Blues will do very well. I'm really excited... this is gonna transform Milwaukee, at least to me....

http://www.ferchillgroup.com/files/1pabst_city_ext.jpg

http://www.ferchillgroup.com/files/2pabst_city_ext.jpg

How far is this Pabst Site away from downtown? Does it feed into downtown at all, or is it totally detached?

^Milwaukee does have the hip areas to bring people downtown (Brady St, North Ave, Third Ward well...downtown). I think this is going to be more of a regional "family-friendly" destination.

It's sounds ridiculous, but I'm more excited about the movie-theater than anything else. I'm a huge fan of the Oriental, and Downer Theaters, but sometimes I get sick of the Art-houses and crave a Hollywood Blockbuster type of film. The only place close is the Prospect Theaters (lacking), and the theatres in Whitefish Bay. It'll be nice to have something fill that market.

So Milwaukee is definitely getting an ESPN Zone and House of Blues? I think the House of Blues will do very well. I'm really excited... this is gonna transform Milwaukee, at least to me....

No on ESPN Zone, that I've heard of. HOB, Sega Gameworks, and the multiplex have all signed letters of intent to lease at PabstCity.

Also look at Wispark's PabstCity website (http://www.wispark.com/pabstcity/index.htm).

It has "hip areas" but it doesn't have hip attractions, or whatever. Places that people from out of state will hear about.

All those buildings were REALLY an eyesore and I'm glad to see them get renovated.

Could someone please show me where in Milwaukee they are with maps.google.com, if its not a huge problem? (Also, show me where downtown Milwaukee is)

How far is this Pabst Site away from downtown? Does it feed into downtown at all, or is it totally detached?

PabstCity is on the northwestern fringe of downtown. It is only "disconnected" right now because the Park East corridor is awaiting development, which will be coming in the next several years.

It has "hip areas" but it doesn't have hip attractions, or whatever. Places that people from out of state will hear about.

All those buildings were REALLY an eyesore and I'm glad to see them get renovated.

Could someone please show me where in Milwaukee they are with maps.google.com, if its not a huge problem? (Also, show me where downtown Milwaukee is)

Go to Google maps yourself and find it. Just look for where W. Juneau Avenue crosses I-43--that's where PabstCity is. Everything between there and the lakefront is Downtown.

From the link Markitect posted I was checking out the site plans, and they're pretty interesting. You guys should check it out if you haven't.

Quick question for anyone who would know it. When it comes to street construction, is it likely the streetscaping will get scaled down? Because I'm really digging the round-about. It would also be nice for them to add to the existing plans for residential, 2-3 stories seems like it may be too low for future demand. Am I off by that?

Yeah, I'm digging that roundabout too.

What I'm hoping ist hat they preserve a lot, and have sort of tours of some of the really architecturally awesome stuff.

I was kind of hoping it was going to be more like a mall though, with no streets (with cars) running through it, and nice cobblestone or whatever avenues for bikes and walking between the shops. Kind of european in that respect.

I also hope its a very architecturally awesome theater, with lights and whatnot. Not like those concrete colliseums (spelled wrong) you see in the suburbs...

Quick question for anyone who would know it. When it comes to street construction, is it likely the streetscaping will get scaled down? Because I'm really digging the round-about.

The little roundabout is a nice traffic calming touch, and a good way to deal with the odd angles where the streets come together at that point. It also serves as an entry gateway into the PabstCity district, so I think it will probaly remain.

It would also be nice for them to add to the existing plans for residential, 2-3 stories seems like it may be too low for future demand. Am I off by that?

Real estate development is a numbers game. You only build what you can afford, and try to make as much money off of that as possible. That being said, I do not know if earlier plans called for more units or taller buildings on those particular sites. Three stories of residnetial, plus a ground floor of retail, is a good fit for that area, though--it's a good match to the nearby 3-4 story brewery buildings that are being preserved. Also, do not forget that the blocks immediately east, in the Park East corridor, will everntually have residential stuff built on them too. Don't want to oversaturate the area with all kinds of residnetial units--otherwise they'll be slow to sell.

What I'm hoping ist hat they preserve a lot, and have sort of tours of some of the really architecturally awesome stuff.

Remember, most of the brewery buildings are being demolished. The buildings that are being preserved are the ones in relatively good condition, and the really really cool-looking ones. Go back through this thread and the earlier thread (in the North America archives) to find our previous discussions about that.

I was kind of hoping it was going to be more like a mall though, with no streets (with cars) running through it, and nice cobblestone or whatever avenues for bikes and walking between the shops. Kind of european in that respect.

Pesdestrian malls like that are rarely successful, especially in a climate like Wisconsin (Madison's State Street is one of the rare exceptions). Keeping PabstCity open to pedestrians and autos makes it much more accessible and urban--there's no need to create a giant isolated pedestiran-only superblock there.

The only downside to the street pattern as it is designed is the removal of the Juneau Street bridge across I-43 (because of the new on ramp for Highland Street a block away). But that is an issue with WisDOT, not PabstCity developers. Taking out the bridge disrupts the neighborhood connectivity with the Near West Side.

this Pabst City is sounding real cool. I just hope it doesnt get too touristy. I also am very excitied for a movie theater downtown...I also agree that they play too much artsy crap down on the east side. :)
They should bring a bowling alley down there as well.

How much extra space will there be after they put in the beer garden thing, GameWorks, HOB..etc?? Will there be enough space to build more attractions?

I think that all the people going to Pabst City will really make the Park East area better too.

How much extra space will there be after they put in the beer garden thing, GameWorks, HOB..etc?? Will there be enough space to build more attractions?

Additional things being considered for remaining PabstCity space are a Hofbrauhaus brewpub/restaurant, a museum of beer and brewing, a bed-and-breakfast inn, and some other miscellaneous stores--none of which has been finalized yet. That is in addition to the housing, office, and entertainment space I mentioned earlier today.

hey, guys, i hope you don't mind that when i have a milw question, i throw it in here (where it doesn't belong) rather than starting a new thread.

we're coming up for lunch tomorrow and going to Pottawatomi. Anyway, I wanted to eat outdoors, preferably along the river walk. We've been to Rock Bottom and loved the setting and the ambience (with the food o.k. enough to not be an issue).

is there any other river walk setting (downtown or thrid ward) that you would recommend for lunch that offers that great setting like Rock Bottom? We're not interested in beer (just lunch and a nice view), so would a place like the Milw Ale House not be a great idea (I mean...more for beer than food, right?).

anyway, anything downtown, preferably but not necessarily on the river...and outdoors. I'd sure appreciate any suggestions you have.

*****

one other question: we haven't been in Mayfair for years, but from the outside it really looks like it has tranformed itself. Is that the case and is it worth the stop, too, or should i just say, "forget it" and stick to places like Woodfield and Oakbrook???????????????

THANX

I dont know too much about the river...besides Ale House and Rock Bottom. There is also John Hawks Pub which has some pretty good food I hear..its on the river diagonal from Rock Bottom.. The interior looks very nicely furnished...but they also have riverside seating like RB and AH. However, I would highly recommend La Perla on 5th and National...which is in an area filled with Mexican resturants. You probally could check out Pieces of Eight..which is on the lake by the art museum. I think its kinda pricey though. There are also are some pretty good places to get lunch around Cathedral Square park area I har. To tell you the truth..I really havent even come close to fully experiencing Mil. resturants...someone else probally can give you more info.

As for Mayfair. Its a pain in the arse finding parking there. Personally, I dont think a person coming from Chicago would find anything THAT intresting here. They have good stores (best in Milw in my opinion)...but really nothing that you cant find in Chicagoland malls. They just built a Cheesecake Factory and some Italian resturant that I heard was pretty good. Id check if you wanna see what it looks like after the remodeling.

I ate at that Italian restaurant a few weeks ago- if you are talking about the one with Valet Parking right next to the Applebees. It was very good.

Where is this Mexican restaurant area? I need to check it out. I am obsessed with Mexican food.

Mayfair is a mall. Malls are malls. It doesn't matter where you go. There's gonna be a GAP, and there's gonna be a Bath & Body. I guess that what I'm trying to say is, why the hell are you shopping at malls? Blech. :P

I ate at that Italian restaurant a few weeks ago- if you are talking about the one with Valet Parking right next to the Applebees. It was very good.

Where is this Mexican restaurant area? I need to check it out. I am obsessed with Mexican food.


its down on the southside...anywhere along National Ave.....because its a heavilly hispanic area. Kind of suprised me the first time being down there..because most of the signs were in Spanish.

I dont know too much about the river...besides Ale House and Rock Bottom. There is also John Hawks Pub which has some pretty good food I hear..its on the river diagonal from Rock Bottom.. The interior looks very nicely furnished...but they also have riverside seating like RB and AH. However, I would highly recommend La Perla on 5th and National...which is in an area filled with Mexican resturants. You probally could check out Pieces of Eight..which is on the lake by the art museum. I think its kinda pricey though. There are also are some pretty good places to get lunch around Cathedral Square park area I har. To tell you the truth..I really havent even come close to fully experiencing Mil. resturants...someone else probally can give you more info.

As for Mayfair. Its a pain in the arse finding parking there. Personally, I dont think a person coming from Chicago would find anything THAT intresting here. They have good stores (best in Milw in my opinion)...but really nothing that you cant find in Chicagoland malls. They just built a Cheesecake Factory and some Italian resturant that I heard was pretty good. Id check if you wanna see what it looks like after the remodeling.

Thanks, Redd...haven't been to Pieces of Eight in years...used to be pretty lonely on its lakefront location before a lot of stuff started to fill in.

I believe this is the Milwaukee Ale House. You might want to check that out edsg25


The lone picture from the article
http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/I1211-2005Mar25L.txt

Otherwise you might want to check out Nola's in the Miller Pavillion. It's right across from the MAM so the view is great! I've been there before and they're pretty good.

has anyone else noticed those reddish orange scultptures by the Brady St. pedestiran bridge? They are pretty cool.

I'm hot and cold with Whitney Gould, but I totally agree with her on those sculptures. They just don't feel like they belong.

Thanks, Milwaukee, for some totally dreadful frigid, overcast, and misty weather yesterday. We were going to go to John Hawk, but since eating outside was the intention, we skipped it (from their website, looks like a nice place..will have to try it later) and went straight to Pottawatomi and ate at the buffet.

As much as I hate to compare cities, you realize that Chicago has it all over Milwaukee: at this time of year, our temp's are always in the mid 80's, the skies are incredibly blue, and the beaches are filled with scantilly clad women, all under 25. by law. You guys wouldn't know about that, being in the far northern latitudes. :)

Meanwhile, I picked up some last minute mother's day gifts and got in a conversation with the guy wrapping them. When he found out I was from Chicago, he practically blamed me (in a kidding way) for the double priced tolls on 294 due to I-Pass.

Oh, well...


Seriously, guys, thanks for the advice. I will definitely be back to try it on a nicer day!

Wait. I just got up and I assume you are kidding but I can't tell for sure.

Wait. I just got up and I assume you are kidding but I can't tell for sure.

Kidding, of course, our weather's the same as yours! :)

Holy fuck it's nice out today.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/may05/324490.asp

Wow, this year was the best year for Property Values risising since 1952! THe best in 53 years! An average 12 percent increase, with higher increases in many parts of Milwaukee. Were talking about the years when Milwaukee was annexing a lot of the surronding suburbs under Zeidler! This was the year when Milwaukee annexed the Town of Lake (Airport Area), and Granville (Far Northwest side) I think, either 1952, or 1954 it was. I myself live in the former Town of Lake. Many people fear gentrification in further parts of the city. This however is good news, as it shows the recent drop in crime, and improvements, and rehabilitation of homes, and businesses in the city. What do you all have to say about this?

Last week the Department of City Development and PabstCity developers hammered out a $39 million tax incremental financing plan to help pay for the brewery project. As part of the agreement, the amount of public subsidy could be lowered if developers are able to land tenants for the project at higher lease rates than initially projected.

PabstCity developers have received letters of intent to lease from Jenco Cinemas, with plans to open a 16-screen movie theater; House of Blues, with plans to open a nightclub, restaurant, concert venue; and Sega Gameworks, with plans to open a video arcade-themed restaurant. Developers are currently in talks to bring in Trader Joe's as a gourmet grocer anchor tenant. Other commercial tenant ideas still in the works include a museum of beer and brewing, a bed-an-breakfast inn, a Hofbrauhaus brewpub, as well as other specialty retailers.

In total, PabstCity would include 488,000 square feet of retail and entertainment space, 257,000 square feet of office space (no known tenants yet), and 250 apartments and condos. Plans call for rehabilitating 12 buildings in the brewey complex, and demolishing the reamining 14 to clear the way for new construction.

In the coming weeks the wil need approval from the Joint Review Board, the Redevelopment Authority, and the Common Council before moving forward.

From the Business Journal article: Agreement reached on PabstCity funding (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/05/02/daily33.html?page=1)


***


Meanwhile, owners of existing entertainment venues in the city are claiming the proposed PabstCity nightclubs, theaters, and restaurants will draw customers away from their own establishments.

Read the details in this article from the Journal Sentinel: Rivals rip PabstCity finance plan - Harm to existing theaters, nightclubs feared (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/may05/324232.asp)


***


Despite rising costs and growing competition, locally-based Alterra Coffee Roasters, Inc. continue plans to remodel an old warehouse into a new headquarters. The price tag to renovate the old building in Riverwest (near N. Humboldt Boulevard and E. Locust Street) stands at $3 million. When completed in 2006, it will include Atlterra's administrative offices, a new coffee roasting facility, a wholesale bakery, a cafe, and additional neighborhood retail space.

The firm is no stranger to historic rehabilitation and interesting design. Alterra opened a coffee shop in the historic pumping station on the lakefront, and won a Mayor's Design Award for its coffee shop on N. Prospect Avenue.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/may05/alterra3050705.jpg
^ A rendering of Alterra Coffee Roasters new headquarters, a renovated warehouse in Riverwest. Plans include recladding the facades in cream city brick, adding large windows for natural light, and an outdoor patio.

Full details in the Journal Sentinel: Coffee with conscience - Alterra won't tear down building, despite high costs (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/may05/324282.asp)


***


With the recent City-to-State transfer of land ownership, Lakeshore State Park is one step closer to becoming a reality, although the process have been very very slow over the years. Much of the hang-up involves accessability issues to the manmade island itself, as well as the adjacent Maier Festival Park, which is City-owned property leased by Milwaukee World Festival--the company that puts on all of the lakefront ethnic and music festivals.

In the coming years, Harbor Island will receive a few public improvements as it is turned into Lakeshore State Park. At the north end, a bridge will link existing pathways on the lakefront and island. Such a link already exists at the southern end. A small building contaiing restrooms and showers will built at the north end, next to 20-24 new boat slips. On the lagoon side of the park, a pebble beach will be added for kyakers and steps leading down into the water for fishing. The open lawn area will be improved and gathering spaces created for picnicers. A breakwater extending south from Municipal Pier is also included in the park project, which will help protect the Denis Sullivan schooner across the way at Pier Wisconsin, and will also serve as a place for cruise ships to dock (right now they often use the industrial docks down on Jones Island).

http://www.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/may05/lakeshore050805.jpg
^ Harbor Island sits just off the lakeshore, a blank slate for recreational opportunities. For the uninitiated, Maier Festival Park is visible along the left edge; Municipal Pier juts out into the water above the island----where Pier Wisconsin's Great Lakes education center and Discovery World science museum are being constructed.


http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/may05/lakeshore08G2-big.gif
^ This map shows the improvements that will be made to create Lakeshore State Park.


http://www.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/may05/dowd050805.jpg
^ Even in its current unimproved state, Harbor Island is quite popular for recreational activities. The lakefront residential high-rise district across the bay is visible in the background.

See the Journal Sentinel article for more info: Island of promises - State ownership of land begins to fulfill vow of public access even as debate on its use continues (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/may05/324458.asp)

Holy hell you guys I'm in the finals for the Urban Photo Contest, sweeeet. I was home for the weekend in Madison and I have to tell you guys, it's definetly 10 degrees warmer, my parents were thinking about putting their AC on, and it was definetly sweaty oustide.

Great news while I was gone, I hope this summer breeds developments that will surprise us all.

everybody should check out your pic man...its great! :) First Mil photo ive seen in hte finals since


That lakeshore park sounds pretty cool. There really isnt anything special about it beside the location and the view really. It would be kind of cool if they put some basketball/tennis courts...some picnic tables and things like that. It would be a fun place to go fishing as well...maybe drawing in some people from outside the Milwaukee area who obviously are fishing lunatics. It will be a very cool view with that Pier Wisconsin, the skyline, lake, and Summerfest all in one package.

Holy hell you guys I'm in the finals for the Urban Photo Contest, sweeeet. I was home for the weekend in Madison and I have to tell you guys, it's definetly 10 degrees warmer, my parents were thinking about putting their AC on, and it was definetly sweaty oustide.

Great news while I was gone, I hope this summer breeds developments that will surprise us all.

You got my vote, Eastsider. And not just 'cuz its Milwaukee ;)

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/may05/324490.asp

Wow, this year was the best year for Property Values risising since 1952! THe best in 53 years! An average 12 percent increase, with higher increases in many parts of Milwaukee. Were talking about the years when Milwaukee was annexing a lot of the surronding suburbs under Zeidler! This was the year when Milwaukee annexed the Town of Lake (Airport Area), and Granville (Far Northwest side) I think, either 1952, or 1954 it was. I myself live in the former Town of Lake. Many people fear gentrification in further parts of the city. This however is good news, as it shows the recent drop in crime, and improvements, and rehabilitation of homes, and businesses in the city. What do you all have to say about this?

This is good news, and a sign that we may find ourselves having to deal with the effects of gentrification in parts of the City outside of Riverwest and Brewer's Hill. If trends continue, the Left will start hemming and hawing about gentrification and how rich people are pushing poor people out of their homes. There's been an undercurrent of this debate for awhile, but if the City continues appreciating, you'll hear more of it. Which I think is a good sign. Dying cities don't gentrify.

I'm also quite pleased to see that the increases in value are City-wide, including in such places as Merrill Park and my neighborhood, Sherman Park. This indicates to me that the revival is more than just new condos on the East Side or Downtown -- we're talking about whole swaths of the City getting a new lease on life with new residents, including a lot of families. Yep, that's how you resurrect a City, and it looks like in Milwaukee we're doing it.

This is good news, and a sign that we may find ourselves having to deal with the effects of gentrification in parts of the City outside of Riverwest and Brewer's Hill. If trends continue, the Left will start hemming and hawing about gentrification and how rich people are pushing poor people out of their homes. There's been an undercurrent of this debate for awhile, but if the City continues appreciating, you'll hear more of it. Which I think is a good sign. Dying cities don't gentrify.

I'm also quite pleased to see that the increases in value are City-wide, including in such places as Merrill Park and my neighborhood, Sherman Park. This indicates to me that the revival is more than just new condos on the East Side or Downtown -- we're talking about whole swaths of the City getting a new lease on life with new residents, including a lot of families. Yep, that's how you resurrect a City, and it looks like in Milwaukee we're doing it.

Well said, great post.

Whitney Gould writes well, is highly cultured and knowledgeable, and courageous enough to rap Marquette University's knuckles for its aesthetic misdeeds, but for some reason she seems intent on promoting a developer's plan to do serious damage to one of Milwaukee's high quality constructions, the office and parking garage at 770 North Jefferson.

This is her most recent article about it (this seems to be a pet project of hers):http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/may05/324606.asp

Here's the building (I'm sure all Milwaukeeans are familiar with it and almost certainly like it):http://people.msoe.edu/~reyer/mke/1975a.jpg
And here's the letter I sent to Ms. Gould:
You're trafficking in treacle. The parking structure is one of the very few buildings which friends who have visited Milwaukee over the years actually remember and comment favorably about. Sunken atriums never work anywhere so I'm sure more than a decorative redo is necessary for that part of the building's success, but the parking structure is a notably strong statement of form and function, and gauzing it all up is just a contemporary version of the practice of stuccoing over Victorian facades. Does your contempt for Cor-ten steel extend to the new pedestrian bridge over the North Avenue dam site? Or the Chicago civic center?
I just find your promotion of this developer's scheme amazingly wrong headed, and profoundly at odds with what I thought was a guiding principle, namely respect for the integrity of an architect's vision, especially one that reflects the best of its times.

nm

what do you guys think about this building? I heard about it today on Beling...he thinks it blows. Im a bit half and half on these peoples work.


Dutch architects win first Marcus Prize
Emerging stars in industry specialize in enlivening urban sites
By WHITNEY GOULD
wgould@journalsentinel.com
Posted: May 9, 2005
A trio of iconoclastic Dutch architects who jokingly call themselves "the anti-Calatravas" are the first winners of the Marcus Prize, a $100,000 plum that Milwaukee's Marcus Corporation Foundation established to recognize emerging international stars in architecture.

Marcus Prize Winner

http://img225.echo.cx/img225/1989/marcus0509050aq.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)


Photo/Hisao Suzuki

This housing, office and retail complex on a canal in Amsterdam was designed by MVRDV, the Dutch architects who won the first Marcus Prize.

Calatrava vs.
anti-Calatrava
Which style of architecture do you prefer?

Dutch 'anti-Calatravas'


Calatrava addition to Milwaukee Art Museum





On The Web
MVRDV

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The winner announced Monday, the firm MVRDV, was chosen from a field of 22 nominees from nine countries. The members will come to Milwaukee in the spring of 2006 to teach a studio class at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee School of Architecture and work on an as-yet-unspecified urban design project, possibly in the Menomonee Valley or the Park East Freeway corridor.

"They're not well known yet outside their own country, but they will be," said Bob Greenstreet, UWM's architecture dean and Milwaukee's planning director. "Their skill is in looking at challenging sites, urban gashes, in the post-industrial landscape and creating powerful insertions."

Greenstreet served as a juror on the selection panel, along with Steve Marcus, president and CEO of the Marcus Corp.; Robert Ivy, editor of Architectural Record magazine; Chicago architect Jeanne Gang, of Studio Gang; and author Aaron Betsky, curator of the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art.

Marcus, who could not be reached for comment, has said he established the prize to bring new excitement to Milwaukee. The corporation's foundation has committed itself to at least three prizes over six years.

Ivy, in an interview before the final selection, said all nominees submitted portfolios full of strong, original work, some quiet "and some that will shock or surprise you."

MVRDV, made up of Winy Maas, 46; Jacob van Rijs, 41; and Nathalie de Vries, 40, clearly falls into the latter category. Their work is heavily influenced by Dutch-born architect Rem Koolhaas, with whom Maas and van Rijs studied. Like Koolhaas, they embrace hard-edged industrial materials, including corrugated metal and raw concrete, and celebrate the jangle and chaos of urban life.

"They're edgy, yes," Greenstreet said. "But edgy is good. It's noticeable. It causes debate. It's part of the process of creating an awareness of alternative futures."

In a telephone interview from Rotterdam, Maas said that if he had to characterize MVRDV's philosophy, it would be this: "We see architecture as a device, an instrument that shows the direction a city should go to. Architecture needs to be very clear, on the edge of populistic, to make itself visible and understandable to others, not just to architecture critics. It claims an urban agenda, and it must consider ecological impacts."

While he and his colleagues were influenced by Koolhaas, Maas acknowledged that, "We are more interested in the unknown (architects) than the known."

Maas said the firm stands at the opposite end of the design spectrum from Santiago Calatrava, the Spanish-born architect of the Milwaukee Art Museum's elegant, gravity-defying 2001 addition. "We are the anti-Calatravas," he said, laughing. "I admire his aesthetics, but he can almost be considered one of the 'hairdressers' of architecture, like (Frank) Gehry - they are doing coiffures."

But Maas then tempered his criticism, noting that some of Calatrava's more recent work, such as a twisting apartment tower with rooftop gardens in Manhattan, is more urbanistic.

MVRDV's most striking work includes a huge, multicolored office, retail and housing complex built on pilings in Amsterdam; and the VPRO Broadcasting Co. headquarter in the Dutch city of Hilversum, with a vegetative roof, glass curtain walls and exposed glass tubing.

That last feature, Maas said, was inspired by the glass tubing in Frank Lloyd Wright's S.C. Johnson & Son Administration Building in Racine, which Maas visited several years ago. Racine, he said, is the closest he has been to Milwaukee.

"But I am fascinated by the Midwest," Maas said. "It has had almost no voice to the outside world, and that makes it an interesting field to explore - an escape from the known."

I'm not generally a fan of MVRDV.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/goodnightmilwaukee.jpg

bleh.... im so sick and tired of milwaukee's skyline. granted, milwaukee isnt THAT big of a city but the skyline is so bland. milwaukee needs commercial developement and it needs it soon. Im going to college at UWM in a few months and im already tired of milwaukee. :D

seriously though, its a shame chicago is only a little over an hour away. its draining all of our commercial development and then gary is draining all of our industrial development (not that we need any more.) milwaukee's population has been falling for awhile and im sick of living in such a misconceived state. all these generalizations and stereotypes that other states/cities have about us are becoming true.

grrr.. i knew i shouldnt have visited my GF in charlotte this past weekend. as much as i hate to say it, charlotte > milwaukee



:(

I think the UV Club tower and the Kilborn tower are improving the skyline. It doesn't help that Milwaukee's tallest building is one of the ugliest buildings in existence.

I think the UV Club tower and the Kilborn tower are improving the skyline. It doesn't help that Milwaukee's tallest building is one of the ugliest buildings in existence.


ever see Nawlins' tallest?

I actually think the USBank tower looks cool....its a really big white box with big windows.

grrr.. i knew i shouldnt have visited my GF in charlotte this past weekend. as much as i hate to say it, charlotte > milwaukee



:(

your only talking about tall buildings right? :)

Yeah, I love this town, but our skyline is pretty lackluster.

bleh.... im so sick and tired of milwaukee's skyline. granted, milwaukee isnt THAT big of a city but the skyline is so bland. milwaukee needs commercial developement and it needs it soon. Im going to college at UWM in a few months and im already tired of milwaukee. :D

seriously though, its a shame chicago is only a little over an hour away. its draining all of our commercial development and then gary is draining all of our industrial development (not that we need any more.) milwaukee's population has been falling for awhile and im sick of living in such a misconceived state. all these generalizations and stereotypes that other states/cities have about us are becoming true.

grrr.. i knew i shouldnt have visited my GF in charlotte this past weekend. as much as i hate to say it, charlotte > milwaukee



:(

I felt the same way when I moved from Madison, when you get here you'll realize it's about more than the skyline. After you learn a thing or two at college, you'll appreciate this city for what it is.

Milwaukee is ranked around the 20th largest city in the US, catch up on the projects going on, you're going to be surprised.

milwaukee needs commercial developement and it needs it soon. Im going to college at UWM in a few months and im already tired of milwaukee.
If by commercial development you mean shops, stores and restaurants, you are quite right. Tracts of office or residential towers without these amenities are depressingly dull.
For whatever reasons, too few Milwaukeeans (compared to some other communities I'm familiar with) seem to take any pleasure in spending time and money patronizing these establishments, and when they do they seem to stick to the safety of national franchises or the ethnically familiar (which in the case of beer and brats or Friday fish-fry is about as low on the ladder of culinary interest as you can go). The almost complete absence of decent Asian restaurants is truly shocking, and anyone who promotes Milwaukee as a great restaurant town is just blowing smoke.
There have been attempts to improve this situation before, and, in fact, long ago, the city had a substantial number of local clothiers and eateries. But I'm sure these days, few enterprising independent merchants or restauranteurs would risk moving into Milwaukee, given the timidity of the customer base. Perhaps the residential revival in and around downtown will augment the local culture.
Safety and decency are at greater risk in a community in economic decline than in one on the rebound, and if the populace doesn't start circulating the green outside the confines of Milwaukee's innumerable beer halls, the current development bounce will again fall as flat as a warmed over half-keg.

If by commercial development you mean shops, stores and restaurants, you are quite right. Tracts of office or residential towers without these amenities are depressingly dull.
For whatever reasons, too few Milwaukeeans (compared to some other communities I'm familiar with) seem to take any pleasure in spending time and money patronizing these establishments, and when they do they seem to stick to the safety of national franchises or the ethnically familiar (which in the case of beer and brats or Friday fish-fry is about as low on the ladder of culinary interest as you can go). The almost complete absence of decent Asian restaurants is truly shocking, and anyone who promotes Milwaukee as a great restaurant town is just blowing smoke.
There have been attempts to improve this situation before, and, in fact, long ago, the city had a substantial number of local clothiers and eateries. But I'm sure these days, few enterprising independent merchants or restauranteurs would risk moving into Milwaukee, given the timidity of the customer base. Perhaps the residential revival in and around downtown will augment the local culture.
Safety and decency are at greater risk in a community in economic decline than in one on the rebound, and if the populace doesn't start circulating the green outside the confines of Milwaukee's innumerable beer halls, the current development bounce will again fall as flat as a warmed over half-keg.

When was the last time you were in Milwaukee? Because, to me, it looks like you're describing the city 15 years ago, or you're describing the city in those two swaths south of Lincoln and north of Good Hope -- the far South Side and the far North Side, respectively. The fish fry and beer hall tradition is alive and well, of course, but today the taverns stand alongside places like Saketumi, a French-Japanese fusion place started by a chef who just moved here after working for years at top restaurants in Los Angeles. Or places like Sanford's, the only five star restaurant in the state, or Barossa, an amazing Italian restaurant/wine bar that uses all organic ingredients grown locally. Or places like Timbuktu, a pan-African place that joins the other two African restaurants in town. Or places like West Bank Cafe, a Vietnamese place in Riverwest that got good reviews in recent New York Times article about Milwaukee. Or places like Old Town, one of two Serbian restaurants in town (and one of a handful nationally).

I would encourage you to visit www.onmilwaukee.com before your next trip to Milwaukee ... I'm pretty sure you'll find whichever dining experience you're looking for.

Also, please elaborate on your statement on Milwaukee's "safety and decency." Thanks.

When was the last time you were in Milwaukee?
I visit frequently, every few months, and always have the 1/2 of my life since I moved away. My impressions now are those of a visitor, not a resident.

I would encourage you to visit www.onmilwaukee.com before your next trip to Milwaukee ... I'm pretty sure you'll find whichever dining experience you're looking for.
Of course a site like that is going to tout the city's virtues. I did a Google search myself and was surprised at the number of, at least, Chinese restaurants. Ironically, most were located at the fringes you yourself deride. The fact that a few of this and some of that exist here and there, while a ton of bars exist everywhere, is not something to be complacent or proud about. As a visitor downtown, I've seen lots of good places struggle and fail, and precious few or no alternatives to turn to afterwards. All for the same reason: no customers. Only the beer joints remain forever. Stop by the very fine Linens & Things in the Plankinton arcade. Tell me if you see even one customer?

Also, please elaborate on your statement on Milwaukee's "safety and decency." Thanks.
Simple. If you're going to attract wealth to the town, you're going to have to start spending on things besides the local (and not so attractive to a visitor) obsessions. Milwaukee is a superior setting for active commerce, if only more people would sit at various tables instead of a bar stool (or a table at a bar). I'm certain you're going to need to attract wealth to provide jobs, keep people's hopes and the economy afloat (big time manufacturing ain't making a comeback unless you're willing to accept pennies-a-day wages) and prevent another cycle of decline and decay. Decline and decay remove the barriers to exploitation and crime.
Truly great work is being done rejuvenating and in fact transforming the old "meeting grounds by the rivers". The Beer Line is no longer recognizable physically. But it, and all the rest, won't stay alive if it turns into the same old Milwaukee "Ain'a, Hey".

Good news for the Park East (from jsonline.com)

Condo project picked for Park East

A $10 million development with 33 condominiums will be built in the Park East area, becoming the latest project planned for the strip of vacant land along downtown’s northern edge, Milwaukee officials announced today.

The development, which will include 2,700 square feet of street-level retail space, is planned for a city-owned parcel between N. Water, N. Jefferson and E. Pleasant streets. Mayor Tom Barrett said it will help anchor the 64-acre Park East area, which includes 16 vacant acres of former freeway land that Milwaukee County is selling.

"This is a great day for the Park East," Barrett told reporters at a City Hall news conference.

The city Redevelopment Authority sought proposals for the 10,200-square-foot parcel, and six development teams responded. The Department of City Development is recommending a proposal submitted by Legacy Real Estate Partners, of Deerfield, Ill.

Legacy, which would pay $230,800 for the parcel, wants to build a five-story development, including a two-story parking structure. The 33 condos would be priced between $169,900 for a 720-square-foot unit to $279,900 for a 1,256-square-foot unit.

as a frequent visitor and soon-to-be resident, i get the vibe that milwaukee is, excuse the terminology, really "ghetto."

granted, some areas of town are very nice and have a more upperclass feel. places like brookfield (as far as i've seen) is a nice city and river hills is one of the wealthiest as far as household income and house value statistics i've seen:

River Hills:
Median resident age: 45.7 years
Median household income: $161,292 (year 2000)
Median house value: $491,000 (year 2000)

lets compare for the hell of it toooo
West Allis:
Median resident age: 37.8 years
Median household income: $39,394 (year 2000)
Median house value: $99,200 (year 2000)


anyway.... anytime i go through milwaukee, it feels like im driving through an under-developed, packed together factory town. Its a shame the city cant expand, what with being only 96 square miles, and work on cleaning up the city and work on building things that will attract a younger, more culturally diverse population. if they could achieve this, a lot wider array of businesses would look at making milwaukee their home and the city would not only grow and expand, but would be an overall more pleasant place to live and visit. sure, it has its strong points, but overall it just seems like a very basic city with nothing to offer over other similarly sized cities (except maybe beer ;))

I guess I just don't get your arguement. Milwaukee is improving, there's all kinds of new development going on, but all of this will be reversed by the city's "ain'a hey?" I don't get it.

It sounds like you're stuck on this idea that Milwaukee = cultural backwater. This is not my experience. No one is going around saying that we're the next San Francisico, but as a food lover and someone who is far from a culinary xenophobe, I can tell you that I rarely am disappointed living here.

Milwaukee's Asian dining places go far beyond Chinese places serving General Tso's and Sweet & Sour Pork. On the South Side around 35th & National there are about 5 or so Asian joints serving a mostly Hmong and Laotian clintele. The baked goods at Rice Palace, in this area, a very good. There are also a good number of Thai places which range from run-of-the-mill to outstanding. My favorite is EE Sane on Farwell. You'll also find a plethora of Japanese places, and a few pan-Asian places with a more fusion approach to the cuisine.

Yes, a lot of restaurants go out of business. What I've been seeing lately in Milwaukee is that as our dining options improve, places serving average or less than average food are dropping out. This is positive.

You also note that there are a lot of bars in Milwaukee serving alcohol. This sounds a lot like every other American city I've ever been to. Milwaukee's corner tavern tradition is something that I hope never dies. In California you have to pay through the nose and "see and be seen" just to get a lousy watered-down drink. Milwaukee is so non-pretentious. That's one of the things I love about the Mil, but I could see that if you're a visitor you wouldn't be aware of what we have to offer cuz we don't flaunt it.

D-res, you have a lot to learn. A lot.

as a frequent visitor and soon-to-be resident, i get the vibe that milwaukee is, excuse the terminology, really "ghetto."

granted, some areas of town are very nice and have a more upperclass feel. places like brookfield (as far as i've seen) is a nice city and river hills is one of the wealthiest as far as household income and house value statistics i've seen:

River Hills:
Median resident age: 45.7 years
Median household income: $161,292 (year 2000)
Median house value: $491,000 (year 2000)

lets compare for the hell of it toooo
West Allis:
Median resident age: 37.8 years
Median household income: $39,394 (year 2000)
Median house value: $99,200 (year 2000)


anyway.... anytime i go through milwaukee, it feels like im driving through an under-developed, packed together factory town. Its a shame the city cant expand, what with being only 96 square miles, and work on cleaning up the city and work on building things that will attract a younger, more culturally diverse population. if they could achieve this, a lot wider array of businesses would look at making milwaukee their home and the city would not only grow and expand, but would be an overall more pleasant place to live and visit. sure, it has its strong points, but overall it just seems like a very basic city with nothing to offer over other similarly sized cities (except maybe beer ;))


Maybe you'll have a different opinion after living here for awhile. Just be sure to make it off the UWM campus on a regular basis.

D-res, you have a lot to learn. A lot.

Just for emphasis...A LOOOOOOOOOOOT.

D-res, you have a lot to learn. A lot.


Just for emphasis...A LOOOOOOOOOOOT.


well not being a resident is kind of an excuse isnt it? hopefully i'll learn more when i get there

btw, east sider... that pic of yours in the photo contest, amazing :)

Maybe you'll have a different opinion after living here for awhile. Just be sure to make it off the UWM campus on a regular basis.

yeah, i definitely will...

just a quick question for anyone familiar with both madison and milwaukee. is there something in milwaukee similar to state street in madison?

^Of course it's an excuse, it was mine. :)

just a quick question for anyone familiar with both madison and milwaukee. is there something in milwaukee similar to state street in madison?

Probably the closest thing would be Brady Street, which has a solid number of eateries, bars and stores.

North Avenue has a good selection of college-y bars and restaurants, and one the best art-house theaters in town.

Water Street is Downtown, about halfway between UWM and the Marquette campus. That's where you'll find a lot of college-oriented bars and restaurants where I would go if I wanted to feel old (I'm 27).

Milwaukee Street, also Downtown, has emerged in recent years as the Water Street for an older crowd.

Here's a tip. When you get to campus, pick up a bus schedule for the 30 route. All of the places I mentioned here are on that route.

Downtown Milwaukee doesn't feel that ghetto at all. Milwaukee is a pretty nice town. From a skyline level it looks industrial and dirty as hell, but its getting better.

well not being a resident is kind of an excuse isnt it? hopefully i'll learn more when i get there

Sort of a poor excuse, yes.

We have many people on this forum who are not residents of Milwaukee, but are familiar with it, and recognize the stereotypes and incorrect descriptions you gave as your own view of Milwaukee are not quite true (i.e. Milwaukee losing industrial activity to Gary???).

Don't wait to get here to learn more about it...start right now, before you're here yet.

Read the newspapers, read this Milwaukee thread, go check out the other Milwaukee threads that have been placed in the North American Archives section of this forum.

You will see exactly how Milwaukee is working on cleaning up; how it is building things to attract a younger, more culturally diverse population; and how businesses are making Milwaukee their home, and look at it as a place to expand. You will learn what parts of the city are indeed under-developed, and what the city is doing to change that. You will learn what parts of the city are already overflowing with development. You wil learn that skylines do not make cities; people and neighbohroods do. You will learn the positives. You will learn the negatives.

You do not need to be a resident in order to know this stuff. It may help, but is not a requirement.

But then, presumably, that is why you are posting here.

Downtown Milwaukee doesn't feel that ghetto at all. Milwaukee is a pretty nice town. From a skyline level it looks industrial and dirty as hell, but its getting better.

thats precisely what i was trying to get at... i suppose ;) :nuts:


Sort of a poor excuse, yes.

We have many people on this forum who are not residents of Milwaukee, but are familiar with it, and recognize the stereotypes and incorrect descriptions you gave as your own view of Milwaukee are not quite true (i.e. Milwaukee losing industrial activity to Gary???).

Don't wait to get here to learn more about it...start right now, before you're here yet.

Read the newspapers, read this Milwaukee thread, go check out the other Milwaukee threads that have been placed in the North American Archives section of this forum.

You will see exactly how Milwaukee is working on cleaning up; how it is building things to attract a younger, more culturally diverse population; and how businesses are making Milwaukee their home, and look at it as a place to expand. You will learn what parts of the city are indeed under-developed, and what the city is doing to change that. You will learn what parts of the city are already overflowing with development. You wil learn that skylines do not make cities; people and neighbohroods do. You will learn the positives. You will learn the negatives.

You do not need to be a resident in order to know this stuff. It may help, but is not a requirement.

But then, presumably, that is why you are posting here.


its not really a poor excuse. I'm 17 and have several other things to worry about than the development in Milwaukee. until recently when i was accepted and decided to go to UWM, milwaukee's development didn't mean that much to me. now that im a prospective resident, it's become more important.

and yes, posting here is helping me learn these things, although i've had a deep seeded obsession with skyscrapers and skylines since i was about 2 years old so being a small town kid like me, a skyline does make a city. hopefully i'll learn otherwise when i get there. and also, i really hope that since im a small towner, people on these boards dont assume I'm some dumb rural redneck... i hate rednecks. i love cities... kinda explains why i joined these boards..

anyway, im about to shower up and, ironically enough, come to milwaukee :D

some friends and I are going to mayfair. hehe :banana:

as much as i hate to say it, charlotte > milwaukee



:(


Then stay the fuck out of my city. Anyone that dumb is beyond reaching, so why don't you go to some lovely school on a cul-de-sac down the 8-lane arterial road from a megamall five minutes outside of downtown CHARLOTTE. Milwaukee does not want, nor need any people who find Charlotte even remotely attractive.

And btw, Mayfair is not Milwaukee. You know what? Just stay in Beaver Dam. You'll be much safer there. We wouldn't want your sorry ass to get kicked down hurr in ghetto-ass Mizzilwaukee. I'm out though. I'm finna go bust a cap is some poor rich sucka's ass.

Jesus.

settle down CG5, why alienate someone who is trying to learn about the city?

dont tell me he's the first wisconsinite you've met that has a bad impression of milwaukee. hell, even badger seems to be turning around a bit.

we need to bring the love back to this forum

Anyone that dumb is beyond reaching...Milwaukee does not want, nor need any people who find Charlotte even remotely attractive.


I very, very firmly believe that.

Sort of a poor excuse, yes.

We have many people on this forum who are not residents of Milwaukee, but are familiar with it, and recognize the stereotypes and incorrect descriptions you gave as your own view of Milwaukee are not quite true (i.e. Milwaukee losing industrial activity to Gary???).

Don't wait to get here to learn more about it...start right now, before you're here yet.

Read the newspapers, read this Milwaukee thread, go check out the other Milwaukee threads that have been placed in the North American Archives section of this forum.

You will see exactly how Milwaukee is working on cleaning up; how it is building things to attract a younger, more culturally diverse population; and how businesses are making Milwaukee their home, and look at it as a place to expand. You will learn what parts of the city are indeed under-developed, and what the city is doing to change that. You will learn what parts of the city are already overflowing with development. You wil learn that skylines do not make cities; people and neighbohroods do. You will learn the positives. You will learn the negatives.

You do not need to be a resident in order to know this stuff. It may help, but is not a requirement.

But then, presumably, that is why you are posting here.

Here, here.

:applause:

Should we recap some projects, just so we're all on the same page anyways?

Here's some Milwaukee development news - a new Starbucks! :banana:
http://www.starbucks.com/retail/locator/MapResults.aspx?storeKey=93400

I thought there was already on 76th Street :bash: Theres one right up the road on Layton