Right now, many cities in the northeast and rust belt are on a rapid (or not so rapid) turnaround from decades of decline and decay. In your opinions or experiences, which ones are doing the best?

Judge in areas of rate of population loss, crime rates, public school systems, job creation, demographics, preservation, vacant and abandoned buildings, and overall desirability.

Baltimore is the first city that comes to mind, but maybe that's just my bias kicking in. In fair judgment, I still think Baltimore is improving tremendously. The population trend is on a modest upward trend right now. This is in part because of the crime rate dropping 40% from 1999 (the crime rate was very high in comparison), the rehabilitation of thousands of vacant homes, conversions of old buildings into condos, and the job opportunities are improving. Baltimore actually had a healthy net gain of jobs during 2004 including jobs in the construction sector (hence in response to a construction boom) and retail. Demand for housing, which is coming mainly from DC, is so high and supply is so low property values are soaring. And because Mayor O'Malley lowered the property tax, we could see more construction in the years ahead. It's looking good so far, but the school system and homicide rate are still a mess, but the city is so much better off than it was just 5 years ago.

Buffalo - starting to see some good progress in downtown development and some new industries are starting to bloom. Bass Pro will liven up the city a little and the Medical campus should serve the city well as being a center for bioinformics.

I guess you have to look at how hard a city crashed as well, for example some old rustbelt cities took a hell of a dive back in the 60's thru the 90's like Detroit, Pittburgh, Cleveland, Toledo, Milwaukee, Buffalo, Rochester and Erie.

Considering the declines I choose Buffalo.

I would have to say, Newark New Jersey. Plus, one of the few east coast cities gaining population, not much of a gain but gaining regardless. Plus the housing construction is incredible.

I would have to agree with the proud Marylander that Baltimore is the leader in Urban Renewal for all the reasons stated. But that's just me.

Keep em coming

I don't know much about a lot of these cities except for B'more, DC, Philly, and Detroit.

I know the most about DC so I'll start off by saying that it is making a turnaround. I believe based on the last figures the pop. has dropped a little bit. It's gaining more 20-30 year olds, but it's losing those around 45 or so. The schools still suck, the crime is bad but has been and is getting better.

But, there is a lot of development going on in the city. DT has gotten a lot nicer, and it's starting to permeate. U Street is getting better, NY Ave. is another area who's potential is starting to be recognized.

Parts of SE are still relatively undeveloped and projects have been proposed and some passed. The Nationals will have a new stadium in 3 yrs on the SE waterfront, but in the meantime, the area around RFK stadium and the DC Armory may get a small boost.

There are new residential buildings going up in the booming chinatown area, DT, and in other parts of the city. I just wish SW near 95 would get better. And I wish the gap between commercial and residential development would get equal, not enough res. right now, but I can see that the gov't is just letting the business come DT, the pop. is ready to really start to come around. I'd like to see more retail too.

The DC area has the lowest unemployment rate of any metro in the country and it's economy heavily fueled by the gov't is the strongest of any of the cities up top. There is a whole lot of work to be done, but I think DC has as good a case as any of the cities up top.

Much like B'more and Detroit if you went to DC 15 yrs ago or so and just came back, you'd see a big difference. I'd really like to see Detroit, P'burgh, Philly and B'more get closer to where they once were. B'more is doing a great job, it offers a lot for people looking for a cheap place to live relative to DC, with things to do in a nice part of the country. DC and B'more have helped eachother IMO.

Shouldn't this poll be in the United States section. Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit and Gary are not in the Northeast. They are in the Midwest.

I think it's a little harsh to call all of these cities "dying". Many cities in the country are experiencing population decline, some worse than others. Philadelphia, my hometown, is experiencing this in higher numbers than I would like, although many people leave the city and relocate to the suburbs, so the overall metro area population is actually increasing. The city itself is making great strides in the most important areas that are causing this decline; it is finally addressing the tax structure that causes businesses to flee for greener pastures. It has not solved the problem completely by any stretch, but they are taking some encouraging first measures.

I agree with you on B'More and DC working together in a way. I stayed at Georgetown for a week and got a good look at W and NW Washington almost everyday while riding around town. The area looks so awesome and clean. It was really pleasant seeing all the cleaned up rowhomes and apartments mixed in with all new shops. I'm glad for Washington and would like to see New York Avenue cleaned up. From experience, driving into the city from route 50, New York Avenue was a real depressing place all the way until you reached downtown. But the mixing of jobs and housing all around DC and B'More makes the metro area seem real connected. Baltimore has been helped by DC's hot job influence in the government and high-tech sectors while DC seems to be benefitted by the recreation and waterfront opportunities (whether for office space, retail, or residential) in B'more. And of course the seaport and three airports aid the entire area.

Jive, Lansing, MI too. I don't care if the thread is moved, and by dying, it just means declining, I don't think Philly is dying, but it certainly was experiencing a little decline, so I agree it is a little harsh to call it dying. But I think the point is understood.

Not to be a pest but I would hardly consider Philly and some of the other cities in this pole "dying". Not gonna vote.

You should answere the poll question: Which declining city turning around the fastest? I think that's fair, obviously they're not dying, but at least acknowledge that too a certain degree, some smaller, these cities have had better days. And how the cities are progressing to get better.

Pittsburgh consistantly ranks high in quality of life indeces, so I vote for the Steel City.

Baltimore City had 17,500 building permits ast year up 40% from the year before. It issued about $650,000,000 in commercial building permits as well. The building permits include home renovations as well. In the last 5 years more than 80,000 people have moved into the Baltimore area from Washington DC Montgomery PG or Frederick counties. That does include Northern Virginia. WOW. 40% drop in crime in the last 4 years.

Buffalo's got 4 votes so far. That's just wrong.

Philly MIGHT have gone down the toilet. If, per se, the skyscraper boom didn't happen in the 80s in the midst of its demographic change, population loss, and demise of industry, Philly could have been in some deep sourkraut. Luckily, the buildings went up, kept a decent population of white-collar people in the center of the city, and held over stable bringing us to this residential boom now. It coulda been different, tho had those buildings not been erected.

Im gonna be honest here...

Until Furiine told me about the changes in Baltimore I was all for Buffalo in this poll, but to realize that Baltimore has made the changes that Buffalo only wish it could now means Baltimore has really sprang forward, thus reflecting in this poll the numbers we see.

Buffalo and Philly are moving forward yes, but maybe not as well as Baltimore.

I still root for Buffalo, but after being educated, I agree it's Baltimore.

I don't think Philly and Cincy deserve to be there. I think Baltimore is the most ahead in turning itself around. DC too. Detroit and Buffalo get props too.

BuffCity, you're optimistic, but in all reality, what have you seen in Buffalo that would make you vote for it in this poll over cities like Baltimore (which you already addressed), Cincinnati, or Cleveland? Personally, I think Cleveland deserves some props for things like the Rock and Roll HOF, the new waterfront stadium, etc. If Cleveland were Buffalo, both those projects would still be pipe dreams, and the city council would be working on $5 million feesibility studies for both rather than working to actually get them built.

This is really hard, but I think Buffalo. As the golden horseshoe in Canada grow, Buffalo might grow back into a post-industrial city.

Of THAT list, absolutely Cincy.

I would like to inform people that OKC is also coming around pretty well. If you don't believe me, just look at MAPS.

http://www.okccvb.org/projects/metroprojects.htm :eek2:

Phillie, no doubt! but 6 years ago I would have said Houston!!

Houston has always been boom-bust, so it is really aside from this debate.

not so bad as 80-90 to now! :P

It was pretty bad around 4-3 years ago. Of coarse I think they were the nation's 2nd fastest growing city (economically) in the late 90's, behind Atlanta, so that just prooves my point.

If we are talking about cities and not suburbs, Atlanta/Dallas are dying. I was just there for the 20th time and all I saw was a bunch of new buildings built over the last 20 years with very few historic area's and no waterfront. Philly and Baltimore have much more to do in the city and more people live in Balto City and Philly than Atlanta/Dallas.

I wouldnt call philly, pittsburgh or baltimore dying

just because they are losing, population, it isnt dying, a died city is like Kaskasia, IL. Once was the capital of Illinois, now only 9 people living there.

Norfolk, VA it has resuscitated itself amazingly and is now one of the best places to live and work and there are over 7 construction projects started with building 17-30 stories

Can't speak for city as a whole, but Center City has been a major success.





KGB

Okay, I can't take this any longer.
First of all, any city that has lost over 25% of its population, Philadelphia, should not be considered a "thriving" city, therefore it is DYING!!! When the population of white, middle class people has gone DOWN, and the percentage of poverty-stricken blacks (not go generalize or stereotype) has gone up, the city is dying.

Secondly, in elementary and middle school, do you all remember a little thing called "Geography"? Well, in that subject, we were taught that the "midwest" begins at the Indiana-Illinois state line and coninues southward. Take out a map, and look at it. You will see that Ohio and Michigan do not fall anywhere near Iowa or Kansas, or even Illinois or Wisconsin for that matter.

And lastly, many people do not have their ducks in a row, meaning that I an talking about the CITY!!!! Not the metro area. I do not care if the white, upperclass and snobby rich suburbs of Philly or Cincy are doing find and dandy, I am talking about the health and vitality of the CITY!!!! Part of the turnaround for these cities is reversing the white flight to the suburbs and that is what I am asking. Which is reversing it!!!

Here we go with the black issue. Other than that I see what youre saying

Yeah...wtf. Why cant black people be functional? There are alot of middle class black people that live in cities....or even poor ones that get by just fine, (as there are white people) I am not really understanding this white/black thing I constantly see on here, outside of not making much sense alot of times it could be very offensive to some people.

^^ Yea I see what youre saying but what Im also saying is its not only black people that are poverty stricken and I'm tired of hearing that. Its a shame people can be ignorant and not even know it.

Okay, I can't take this any longer.
First of all, any city that has lost over 25% of its population, Philadelphia, should not be considered a "thriving" city, therefore it is DYING!!! When the population of white, middle class people has gone DOWN, and the percentage of poverty-stricken blacks (not go generalize or stereotype) has gone up, the city is dying.

Secondly, in elementary and middle school, do you all remember a little thing called "Geography"? Well, in that subject, we were taught that the "midwest" begins at the Indiana-Illinois state line and coninues southward. Take out a map, and look at it. You will see that Ohio and Michigan do not fall anywhere near Iowa or Kansas, or even Illinois or Wisconsin for that matter.

And lastly, many people do not have their ducks in a row, meaning that I an talking about the CITY!!!! Not the metro area. I do not care if the white, upperclass and snobby rich suburbs of Philly or Cincy are doing find and dandy, I am talking about the health and vitality of the CITY!!!! Part of the turnaround for these cities is reversing the white flight to the suburbs and that is what I am asking. Which is reversing it!!!
All I can say is Wow, geography huh......you do know Michigan borders Wisconsin right?

Location: Phoenix, AZ

Is this a Phoenix vs. Philadelphia thing or something? Your whole post is basically "Philly sucks cause its got more blacks unlike pearly white Phoenix."

not go generalize or stereotype

Of course not.

I agree that Philyl and Baltimore should definately be teh #1's in this pole so long as the topic changes to "Which previously or presently declining city is recovering most quickly?"

I really think anyone that knows anything, or where these cities were 10 or 15 yrs ago, DC would have to be at or among the top 2, must be lack of representation or popularity, I can't see how Buffalo or Detroit could even compare.

Location: Phoenix, AZ

Is this a Phoenix vs. Philadelphia thing or something? Your whole post is basically "Philly sucks cause its got more blacks unlike pearly white Phoenix."



Of course not.
Thats what Im saying

Of THAT list, absolutely Cincy.

I would like to inform people that OKC is also coming around pretty well. If you don't believe me, just look at MAPS.

http://www.okccvb.org/projects/metroprojects.htm :eek2:

Was Oklahoma City ever a dying city. It seems like OKC has a reputation of having an okay economy, but nothing excellent.

Saint Louis should seriously have at least made the list.

just because they are losing, population, it isnt dying, a died city is like Kaskasia, IL. Once was the capital of Illinois, now only 9 people living there.
And how did that happen?

Okay, just fomr that quote right above, Azn_chi_boi, that is one of the msot comedically tragic tales I have ever heard! Oh my!

Was Oklahoma City ever a dying city. It seems like OKC has a reputation of having an okay economy, but nothing excellent.

I saw somewhere where the poverty rate in OKC has come down 5% since MAPs, and think about it: OKC has become more urban since MAPs, so of course it is becoming livelier.

I agree when the Golden Horseshoe booms which it is, this is going to help Buffalo grow.

I don't think Philly and Cincy deserve to be there.

Ditto on those two cities. But, of all the cities you listed, I think Philly is doing the best right now. It used to be the east coast's forgotten city, but it was never in decline, just living in the shadow of New York and DC.

^^ Hey never say never!!!

Huh? He said it was "never in decline", LOL. That was a good thing.

I don't a lot about all those cities but i have seen differeent pics and stats and Cleveland defiatly seems to be on the come-back trail.
Read an article in the Globe&Mail {Can nat newspaper} and it had two full pages of the rot in Detroit and how the city pop continues to decline. The place truly looked like a war-zone. It was awful.

If we are talking about cities and not suburbs, Atlanta/Dallas are dying. I was just there for the 20th time and all I saw was a bunch of new buildings built over the last 20 years with very few historic area's and no waterfront. Philly and Baltimore have much more to do in the city and more people live in Balto City and Philly than Atlanta/Dallas.

No waterfront! Holy cow, who screwed that one up? I specifically remember that metro Atlanta paid an extra one cent on the sales tax to bring the Atlantic Ocean to the edge of downtown. I've even seen the plans they drew up showing beach resorts right next to downtown. What a scam!

Oh well, maybe we'll just have to divert the flow of the Mississippi River so that it flows through Atlanta.

@fanofterps: If you actually came to Atlanta, or maybe it was Dallas, and expected to see a waterfront than this country is in really bad shape. Do you have a globe? Do you understand the concept of inland cities? Do you know that Atlanta and Dallas are inland cities? Can you even find Atlanta and Dallas on the globe or on a basic Atlas of the US?

Some are Ocean cities, Some are Lake, some are river, some are Bay, some are mixture, and some are just nowhere near water.

"Saint Louis should seriously have at least made the list." I agree, why isnt it on the list.

Okay, I can't take this any longer.
First of all, any city that has lost over 25% of its population, Philadelphia, should not be considered a "thriving" city, therefore it is DYING!!! When the population of white, middle class people has gone DOWN, and the percentage of poverty-stricken blacks (not go generalize or stereotype) has gone up, the city is dying.


Leave it to an ignorant banana to say something like that. The Caucasians you strive to emulate have taught you well. Yes, indeed...

AZian, the comment quoted above (I guess i missed it when it was posted) is stupid to say teh least. Yes, we have lost whites and middle class peoeple. It doesnt make us dying. Our turnaround began in the 80's and even though we are still losing population, techincally, according to recent studies, we are actually on teh verge of population gains. Philadlelphia is by no means dying, and only was "dying" during, let's say, teh 60's, 70's, and 80's. Right now, teh city might be struggling a bit overall, but hell, we are far from dead and we're livin' it up as much as we can. We have a strong core, and it's only strengthening. We are not dying at all.

lol @ Dampyre. Azian what an ignorant comment. You know nothing about Philadelphia. You said not to go and generalize but youre still doing it.

OK folks, let's not turn this into a flame war please.

Just leave the ignorance there for all to see and move past it.

Whats up with Pittsburgh, its been on the decline, but its still big, how much population is it losing? or is it not losing anymore population, still quite a few nice towers in downtown.

I'll say Philadelphia. From the gang wars back in the 80s, Philly has definitely changed for the better. It even tore down Veterans Stadium because it was decrepit and aging.

Philly doesnt even belong in this poll - its clearly not dying. Here's why:

-2nd largest city on east coast; 6th biggest metro region in US

-3rd largest downtown area besides chicago & NYC, a 9% population increase in downtown area, dispelling the "white flight" notion; Philly currently has 79, 802 people living in center city
http://oldcitylofts.com/philadelphia/media/housing_report.pdf#search='philadelphia%20center%20city%20growth'

-80 colleges & universities (2nd most behind boston), including my alma mater Penn

-Philadelphia region has relative strengths in life sciences research and development, market research, general management, environmental consulting and systems integration with large pharm corporations such as MERCK, GLAXOSmithKline, Wyeth, Astra Zenca serving as a strong foundation

-Largest Sports Complex in the nation

-Cheesesteaks

-Freedom & Liberty was born here,

-Residential BOOM that no city listed in the poll can even come close to.
Ninety-five construction projects are under way in Philadelphia, with an aggregate value of $3 billion.
http://philadelphia.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/stories/2005/05/02/story1.html

So why is Philly even in this poll????????

Because all of these cities have qualities and aspects that are similar to the ones you listed for Philadelphia. And yes, Philadelphia is still currently losing population.

I would love to see some hard data, that any of these cities even come close to the 3 billion mark in regards to construction/ residential boom? I'm not denying, Philly has lost population, but to me it clearly is not dying. Maybe in the mid-late 80's there was an air of despair in the city.

Philly has moved beyond that, there is a renewed vigor in this city. There was even chatter in the city, that it was considering hosting a the summer Olympics in 2024. Thats how far it has progressed in the last 10 years. Good luck with fixing up Detroit.

Actually,.... Phillys loss in population is slowing down.

I would love to see some hard data, that any of these cities even come close to the 3 billion mark in regards to construction/ residential boom? I'm not denying, Philly has lost population, but to me it clearly is not dying. Maybe in the mid-late 80's there was an air of despair in the city.

Philly has moved beyond that, there is a renewed vigor in this city. There was even chatter in the city, that it was considering hosting a the summer Olympics in 2024. Thats how far it has progressed in the last 10 years. Good luck with fixing up Detroit.

I'm willing to bet you can subsititute Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore, Washington for what you just said about philly. And a city doesnt "consider hosting" the Olympics the Olympics consider the city.

And you can't just say 3 billion because Philly is the largest city it should have the largest dollar amount.

I would love to see some hard data, that any of these cities even come close to the 3 billion mark in regards to construction/ residential boom?

Well....Development on downtown Baltimore's Westside alone totals more than $1.5 Billion. Add to that the new residential, hotel and cultural projects on Baltimore's Waterfront alone and you can add close to another billion easily.

Add up the other residential development going on and it has be to close to if not more than $3 billion.

There is 5.50 billion of development in the pipeline for Baltimore City in the next five years. Hopefully a new tallest. (St Regis Tower)

Philly doesnt even belong in this poll - its clearly not dying. Here's why:

-2nd largest city on east coast; 6th biggest metro region in US

-3rd largest downtown area besides chicago & NYC, a 9% population increase in downtown area, dispelling the "white flight" notion; Philly currently has 79, 802 people living in center city
http://oldcitylofts.com/philadelphia/media/housing_report.pdf#search='philadelphia%20center%20city%20growth'

-80 colleges & universities (2nd most behind boston), including my alma mater Penn

-Philadelphia region has relative strengths in life sciences research and development, market research, general management, environmental consulting and systems integration with large pharm corporations such as MERCK, GLAXOSmithKline, Wyeth, Astra Zenca serving as a strong foundation

-Largest Sports Complex in the nation

-Cheesesteaks

-Freedom & Liberty was born here,

-Residential BOOM that no city listed in the poll can even come close to.
Ninety-five construction projects are under way in Philadelphia, with an aggregate value of $3 billion.
http://philadelphia.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/stories/2005/05/02/story1.html

So why is Philly even in this poll????????

Even though Philly is finally getting it's act together, the main problems for this city is corruption (this city has always had some form of corruption in it's history, but the corruption that we are facing right now isn't helping the city of Philadelphia, but hurting it beacuse thanks to good old Mr. Street, we're not fully progressing), transportation (we used to have the third largest mass transit system in the country , but we never extended the subway system to places like Norristown, Jenkintown, Darby, Essington, and Bensalem, and during the 60's and the 70's, the commuter rail system was downgraded from an intercity service to Reading, Lancaster, West Chester, Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton, Vineland, Millville, and Bridgeton to an optional suburban service. If you've commuted in rush hour to Phila on the 422, the 202, the 76 and Rt 1 in PA and Rts 73, 70, 38, and 55, it's pretty hectic and jammed because there's no sufficient commuter service to Jersey and the Philadelphia. Roosevelt Blvd should've been a local-express type of highway with the express routes underground and closed off from pedestrians), diversity (we're an East Coast city, but we're the least diverse because we haven't established ourselves as an immigrant center where other cities like NYC, Boston, Chicago, LA, and Houston welcomes them with open arms. It's sad, because our population is decreasing while the population for the other cities is increasing. This has been going on since the 19th century, when we didn't build a sufficient steamship port for the city and didn't recieve the number of immigrants NYC and Boston recieved, and now we're struggling with getting immigrants to the city), & the high wage tax (it's scaring residents and business alike because the city keeps raising the taxes, and it has a lot to do with the population loss: not enough people, they keep raising the taxes. Simple as that. Either that, or they cut down on services, and both aren't good). You can have all that you just mentioned in the quoted post, but Phila is sort of in the gray, which means even though it's skyline is improving, it's still losing people gradually and there has to be a way to stop that.

MoTown.

I voted Philly.

I thought its Detroit or Philly.

Buffalo doesn't deserve the bad reputation it has.

I think Philadelphia along with every other big city east of the mississippi was indeed a dying city through the 1980's. Chicago and New York City made much quicker turn arounds but Philly along with the entire list is slowly but surely seeing the pendulum swing back towards growth in the cities especially the downtown area.

Philadelphia real estate officials expect an overall 5% increase at the 2010 census. That would be a net gain of around 75,000 people for Philly. Nice turn around for a city that has been hemorhaging people since 1950 losing 500,000 people.

I would say Philly's rebound was due in large part to a movement by local businesses and organizations that have finally taken pride in the city, and confronted an out of control almost mob like city government system. That and a whole lot of well off New Yorkers and DC'ers being priced out of the ultra rich New York City and Wash. market. Up on the main line every other license plate you see is from New york, Maryland or Virginia. Add the New Yorkers and DC bargain hunters in with the wealthy suburbanites and Center City is quickly becoming one of the best places to live on the entire east coast.

8 towers over 25 stories currently under construction. Dozens of smaller ones underway. 36 condo towers over 20 stories in the pipeline in center city alone. University City just went through 2 billion in investments and have another 2 billion planned in the next decade. Philly has definitely turned the corner.

First, I have no bias like some (understanding tho) I'm from NJ, lived in Philly most of my life but....

$1.5 billion dollar Bio-Park on east side

$1 billion dollar renovation on west side (new crime cameras everywhere here)

$400 mill for west side Bio-Park (completely separate from last line)

$250 mill for Locust Point Condos & housing

$800 mill for Harbor East

$500 mill for Canton, Brew Hill

40 percent drop in crime since 1999?? (what!?!)

Halt in suburban flight, expansion of U of B, U of MD, Morgan, Towson, JHU, and CCBC. Tons of other cranes around town unseen in the other cities. Original place of urban renewal. All projects listed are under construction, and not just planned. If I named the planned stuff, it would take up the entire page.

Baltimore

With DC and Philly a close second.

Philadelphia

Last year Phoenix overtook Philadelphia to become the 5th most populous city in America. This engendered all sorts of comparisons, snark, chestthumping, and stupidity. From the parameters of this poll, you'd think Phoenix was a city on the rise and Philly a city in decline. Yet Philadelphia is a major economic force - it has 20 Fortune 500 companies in the metro area - and is also a huge research/education center. Phoenix, by contrast, has an economy predicated on building cheap stucco houses. True, Phoenix doesn't have to deal with difficult urban issues. That's why it's great to be a vast amorphous suburb and not a city. But what future does a city in the hottest desert in the world have once global warming makes drought across the West an ongoing phenomenon? Sustainability is a dirty word to right-wingers who think the sky's the limit in all economic affairs. But the name Phoenix ought to give them a clue how the cycles of history are not easily tamed.

Phoenix actually didnt take over Philly as the 5th largest city in teh country.... Not yet, and hoepfully not for a long time.

Phoenix actually didnt take over Philly as the 5th largest city in teh country.... Not yet, and hoepfully not for a long time.

hopefully never ditto w/chicago and houston. No offense to phoenix or houston, there cool but cities are no longer significant its metros that
matter and its these stats that prove it.

anyways i was just in baltimore and its astounding the resurgance towards the city i used to live in suburbs there 10 years ago and the city sucked, now its gaining momentum fantastically.

BALTIMORE

Baltimore

Definitely Philly. After that I'd say DC, Pittsburgh(even though it didn't "die" nearly as bad as some of these other cities), Baltimore, and Motown.

I was just in downtown Detroit over the holiday weekend. Talk about a turnaround from 5 years ago. Granted it isnt great yet by any means, but compared to what it was, the actual turnaround has to be right up there near the top.

The trip was a blast. Great, great time.

Baltimore. On a wikipedia page, it said that in a 1950's census, the population was 949,708!Then it reached it's lowest in 2000 at 636,251 and now the population is rising again. Batlimore defintly is making a turn-around.

I love how Washington, D.C., the city with the arguably the strongest job growth and economy in the country, is considered a "declining city." The Baltimore/Washington Metro area is the fastest growing in the country after LA, Dallas/Ft. Worth and Atlanta. Yes, an awful school system in the city proper and insane crime rates in Southeast have caused people to leave the city proper since the 1950s, but people are moving into urban ring cities of Washington in droves. So much DC hatred and misperception out there.

Where's St. Louis man!!!!!!!!

Why are Lansing and Gary on this list and OKC, the master of urban turnarounds, and Saint Louis, probably on the 2nd best turnaround, missing from this list?

That said, I recant what I said about Cincy. It goes something like this:

OKC
St. Louis
Baltimore
Detroit
Pitt

I'd say Baltimore then Washington , if you measure the difference between decline and growth. Living between the two and watching both over the years I never thought in all my life I would see some of the places I've lived with touched by private investment.

I'd say philly never went into a real decline but sat stagnant.

D.C. was deplorable for a nations capital but there are so may cranes in the air it's ridiculous. It's as if building is as easy as drinking water. The CBD is so large now being the 3rd largest in the country. This is to be expected though in the nations capital, I'm always suprised how much they let it go in the first place.

Because of the above my vote goes to Baltimore, it doesn't have the dependence of the federal government, it has to pull it's own weight. While progress has been made I think we've barely scratched the surface. All the condos are great but the linchpin imo are the bio parks by Johns Hopkins (they have been a real partner to the city and state and really making things happen in the city) and University of Maryland, Baltimore, the huge medical hospital expantions, the PORT OF BALTIMORE with a fortune 500 company in the works and BRAC which will bring thousands of residents and jobs to the area. Because of BRAC a 60 story office tower at Westport is in the works. The revitalization is touching every surface of the city.

I'd go as far as saying the Washington metro alone has probably the most investment in the nation, we never get noticed because we don't have the tall skyscrapers but the biggest projects in the country are here.

Washington, Philadelphia, and Baltimore shouldn't be on this list.

They all have seen better days, but are out of that "dying city" list. All three are booming in development these days. They already turned around.

Out of the other cities, I've only been to Pittsburgh and Buffalo, and I thought that Pgh was doing better downtown (but haven't been to Buffalo for 3 years to judge).

I think that cities like Baltimore and D.C. are not declining anymore. I think the declining part has already happened, and that they are growing again

Judging by the level of development & economies, Philadelphia, Washington & Baltimore. Still it remains to be seen to what degree that has translated into halting of central city population decline, or regrowth.

Newark?

what's driving pittsburgh's economy?
is baltimore's growth evident beyond the harbor area?
center city philly is doing well but what about the rest of the city?

Detroit

is baltimore's growth evident beyond the harbor area?


To answer your question...a big fat YES!

Wow...Lansing and Gary on the list, but no St.Louis? St.Louis probably had the hardest fall of any city in the U.S., including Detroit, and it looks like they're coming back with a vengence. Excuse the cliche.

I vote for Buffalo. Since I live in a dying city that is not turning around it is at least heartening to see our sister to the west start to rise again.

The city of Atlanta.

From what I can see, Newark New Jersey gets my vote.

Definitely not Gary, that's all I have to say.

I'm probably really biased but I'ld have to say Saint Louis is moving the fastest. In the past 5 years it has:

-Reversed 50 years of population loss
-doubled the residential population of downtown
-Seen over 4 billion dollars of development downtown (actually this is since 1999, but there was 1b in 2006 alone)
-Seen the first high rise residential construction in a quarter century (in CWE)
-Seen several projects/ towers anounced (how many will actually be built I do not know)
-Seen significant restoration and rehabitation of many areas of South City
-Experienced massive increases in land value in much of the city

The city still needs to work on schools and repairing the northern parts of the city. But for a city that lost the largest percentage of its population of any major city in the country (correct me if that's wrong), the current developments are astounding. I guess however long wonderland lasts will determine how far StL gets.

I'm probably really biased but I'ld have to say Saint Louis is moving the fastest. In the past 5 years it has:

-Reversed 50 years of population loss
-doubled the residential population of downtown
-Seen over 4 billion dollars of development downtown (actually this is since 1999, but there was 1b in 2006 alone)
-Seen the first high rise residential construction in a quarter century (in CWE)
-Seen several projects/ towers anounced (how many will actually be built I do not know)
-Seen significant restoration and rehabitation of many areas of South City
-Experienced massive increases in land value in much of the city

The city still needs to work on schools and repairing the northern parts of the city. But for a city that lost the largest percentage of its population of any major city in the country (correct me if that's wrong), the current developments are astounding. I guess however long wonderland lasts will determine how far StL gets.

If Saint Louis could do something about the filthy poverty and disgusting crime rates, it would be a tremendous city.

wow. "filthy" and "disgusting"

I guess I've already gone through my "St. Louis gets screwed by statistics rant" and if anybody really cares to find it, they can look at my comments through my profile. But yes, when I said we need to fix education and North City, that's largely what I was refering to. North City accounts for something like 80% of all homosides in St. Louis (You think I'm exagerating but I actually found data on this). And poverty doesn't vanish until people have alternatives. So yes, St. Louis still has a lot of work in front of it. But it's moving at a pace that I could never have predicted was possible for any aging city, and that gives me a tremendous amount of hope.

If Saint Louis could do something about the filthy poverty and disgusting crime rates, it would be a tremendous city.
I live here and it is a tremendous city. As with any place, residents of St. Louis know where they shouldn't wander. Even still, over 90% of the violent crime in St. Louis (and every other city) is not random. In other words, St. Louis is as safe as anywhere.

Not surprising that Philadelphia has gotten the most votes. Given all its assets, there’s no reason why Philly should even be on this list. Or at the very least, why Philly shouldn’t be leading on the comeback trail.

Definitely not Gary, that's all I have to say.


why not gary?

Definitely not Gary, that's all I have to say.


and why xactly is that??? Do you have any idea what's been happening in Gary recently? And have you ever visited the city where the great lakes reach furthest south? (with warm water beaches that would make even the most proud Torontonian green with envy)

resulting in warm waters, massive sand dunes, and a national park?

http://manjupics.tripod.com/indianadunes/Dunes.jpg

Lots has happened since Gary reached its nadir.......and truth be told, it has no plans to look back. news from this week....


SkyValue goes year-round from Gary airport

January 5, 2007
BY JIM STINSON Post-Tribune

SkyValue USA has decided to fly from Gary/Chicago International Airport year-round, based on strong reservation numbers.

The announcement was made late Thursday by executives from C First Class Corp., the parent company based in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. The airline originally was scheduled to fly out of Gary only through April.

"We asked the community to step up and show us their support for SkyValue and Gary/Chicago International Airport as the alternative to crowded Midway and O'Hare, and they have, by flying with us," said Darrell Richardson, chief executive officer of SkyValue. "Additional routes will be announced shortly. We are 100 percent committed to this community and growing Gary/Chicago airport as our hub of operations."

The news was music to the ears of airport director Chris Curry, who has been trying to retain SkyValue and attract new commercial passenger service.

"They've realized this is a viable market," Curry said. "Load factors are extremely high."

Curry said the Gary-to-Mesa, Ariz., flight on Dec. 29 was sold out, with 174 flyers. The entire week after Christmas, SkyValue had about 80 percent of passenger seats filled leaving Gary, he said.

Flights coming back to Gary will show strength next week as people return, Curry said.

SkyValue had some bumps in late December, after its Dec. 15 debut, when it cancelled future flights to Fort Lauderdale, which it said did not emerge as a strong market.

But Richardson said Mesa-Phoenix was a surprise hit, followed by Las Vegas, Orlando, Fla., and St. Petersburg, Fla.

Gateway Williams Airport in Mesa is being heavily pushed as an alternative to the Phoenix airport. Mesa is home of winter-training for the Chicago Cubs, and initially attracted numerous flyers to the Gary-Chicago region from the Phoenix metropolitan area.

Richardson also floated the idea of adding a Los Angeles airport to its destinations. The flight would leave from Gary, stop in Mesa, and land again in the Los Angeles area.

Richardson and Curry both said Los Angeles is a destination mentioned in Northwest Indiana marketing surveys as a Top 10 request for the Gary airport.

SkyValue charters its Boeing 747-800 jets from Xtra Airways of Elko, Nev.

Flights begin at a cost of $79 per one way, with the cost increasing as the plane fills.

I dunno if Philly ever really died...not like Detroit, Buffalo or Pittsburgh.

What's wrong with Philly? It's got its rough edges, but it's definitely not in the same category as the other cities on that list.

I was pretty disappointed when I visited Baltimore, which should probably be renamed Inner Harbor City for its obsession with its revitalized part of town. Yes, Camden Yards is nice and so is the aquarium, but this city has a long way to go.. The hotels there tell you not to venture off anywhere off the beaten track, kinda sad.

Also did not like San Antonio, which is very similar to Baltimore in that you are not to go anywhere but the Alamo or the canal if you want to be in safe territory.

I dunno what's going on in the East Coast but over here on the West Coast San Jose is doing some great infill work and building high rise condos downtown for the first time. We may have a stubby skyline (downtown is directly below flightpath!) but density is increasing with pedestrian-based growth at the forefront.
Most city centers out here were abandoned for the suburbs but people are rediscovering and investing in downtowns up and down the coast.

Okay, I can't take this any longer.
First of all, any city that has lost over 25% of its population, Philadelphia, should not be considered a "thriving" city, therefore it is DYING!!! When the population of white, middle class people has gone DOWN, and the percentage of poverty-stricken blacks (not go generalize or stereotype) has gone up, the city is dying.

Secondly, in elementary and middle school, do you all remember a little thing called "Geography"? Well, in that subject, we were taught that the "midwest" begins at the Indiana-Illinois state line and coninues southward. Take out a map, and look at it. You will see that Ohio and Michigan do not fall anywhere near Iowa or Kansas, or even Illinois or Wisconsin for that matter.

And lastly, many people do not have their ducks in a row, meaning that I an talking about the CITY!!!! Not the metro area. I do not care if the white, upperclass and snobby rich suburbs of Philly or Cincy are doing find and dandy, I am talking about the health and vitality of the CITY!!!! Part of the turnaround for these cities is reversing the white flight to the suburbs and that is what I am asking. Which is reversing it!!!

Wow! I know this is an old post, but for a new member a racist statement like this is quite shocking to see! Racial diversity is what makes our country great. I digress, back to the topic. There are plenty of podunk lily white midwest and southern cities that are dead/dying on their own with virtually no minority(black,hispanic,asian) population. Conversly, meccas for african americans Atlanta, Houston, and the DC metros are all trailblazing employment and population growth with excellent quality of life. I think its sad that people like you already have such a negative disposition about a group a people you obviously know nothing about(other that what you see on TV). Visit Atlanta and you'll find black professionals and upscale neighborhoods that rival/surpass anything out in Arizona. Educate yourself.