Who is stupid enough to fall off the platform. Be mature. If using the platform doors, make some proper ones otherwise it's just a waste of money you fool.

I'd like to know about Tokyo buses. On the web, they are not so popular, many speak about metro, trains etc. But the info about buses is very scarce.

It'd be very interesting to read here some info concerning bus makers companies, fees ways to pay, and see photos, certainly. Thank you.

Who is stupid enough to fall off the platform. Be mature.
Be mature and think. It's called crowding, and it is a huge problem because the station was never designed to handle that many people. With the platform forced to hold more people than there is space for within safety margins, people can end up falling off by accident. Then there's also suicides of course, sounds like you never thought of that either by your attitude.
If using the platform doors, make some proper ones otherwise it's just a waste of money you fool.
I used to think that, but when the main concern is to keep people from falling off by overcrowding and easy/surprise suicides, the chest-high ones are good enough - if anyone tries to climb over it, I'm sure somebody would either stop him, or the driver would see ahead that someone is trying to climb over and stop the train in time since he could see it coming, unlike when there are no doors.

You should only do full-height doors if the aim is to make the platform area climate-controlled.

Now what do you think about 'Nojuku' eg. sleeping in the platform? Is it really possible to do that?
I wonder if the station staff would get angry...

Well, once they get back in the morning they would probably be miffed - who wants to deal with bums first thing in the morning?

It is possible. It isn't at large stations that are shuttered up though. My station is small and does not have shutters to close it off at night. The fare gates are shut off and left in an open state. The escalators are shut down and closed off with a simple red strap, nothing more. The stairs, to my knowledge, are left wide open. So if you're up between 1:30 and 4:30, when there would be no station staff (or power for that matter), you could probably wander around. Best hope you don't get busted by the maintenance vehicles when they pass through.

Never really thought about it though, although I have seen them sleeping in some of the larger underground station areas that are outside the station gates, and I find it pretty depressing/unbecoming. I'd call it a problem, but it is important to remember that this problem is not restricted to stations.

well the bum sleeping in train stations and stuffs is not only in japan its pretty much everywhere actually i remember when i was in NYC Subway i seen people putting on music and so forth and some bums as well.

TRZ do you think they allow Musicans and such at major Train Stations in japan or put Classical or Jazzy Music in the major Train Stations as they give it a more lively smooth atomsphere that you feel relax or something.

also i don't know if i should say this TRZ but even though i love the stations in japan i don't know if the government wants to put something with Art and such to reflect the area and history around that station that would be really cool and you can tell which station is different from it.

like lets say Akihibaba i want that station decoreted with electric lights and full of colorful and such that reflects its neighborhood or some kind of decoration.

or lets say Shinjuki i want to see a statue and such with decorated city like features and such.

TRZ or anybody here has anybody have heard of a Mobile Suit Gundam Statue that was put in a Train Station in japan and which one is it? i want to see more statures like that it seems pretty cool to decorate the stations.

TRZ do you think they will put a Moggle Stature or something where Square Enix's Headquaters is at the nearest Train Station that would be neat to see a moogle and chocobo Statures there.

Be mature and think. It's called crowding, and it is a huge problem because the station was never designed to handle that many people. With the platform forced to hold more people than there is space for within safety margins, people can end up falling off by accident. Then there's also suicides of course, sounds like you never thought of that either by your attitude.

I used to think that, but when the main concern is to keep people from falling off by overcrowding and easy/surprise suicides, the chest-high ones are good enough - if anyone tries to climb over it, I'm sure somebody would either stop him, or the driver would see ahead that someone is trying to climb over and stop the train in time since he could see it coming, unlike when there are no doors.

You should only do full-height doors if the aim is to make the platform area climate-controlled.
Open your eyes, my mate. Have you ever been to Tokyo at all, if not, should be out there to look what it really looks like.

Why are you so desperate to know about it. I advise you to eat some healthy foods and get your mind clearer and be balanced.

As for the platform doors, I belive the accidents would not occur if people stop worrying about themselves and making the problems unnecessary.

Do not wish too much. That is my tip, and get out of the maze. Relax.

Someone show nerdmania a picture of Chuo and Yamanote platform during peak hour at Shinjuku, pls.

^^ Yeah. It looks like he's the one that needs to open his eyes.

And, judging by the way he responded to TRZ, he's a delusional asshole trying to talk smart and shit. :ohno:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1417/1430686376_50c0a32d73_o.jpg

^^ This is what TRZ is talking about.

Open your eyes, my mate. Have you ever been to Tokyo at all, if not, should be out there to look what it really looks like.I use the Tokyuu (Toyoko or Meguro, I can use either) and Yamanote Lines as part of my daily commute. I KNOW how crowded it gets. Toyoko line could use the doors itself, and Meguro Line already has the platform doors (right now they are working on increasing the platform lengths to accomodate 8 car trains like the Toyoko Line, Meguro currently only runs 6-car trains. The extension would obviously result in Namboku and Mita Lines increasing in size as well, but they already had that provision built-in, Meguro Line didn't (Meguro Line (back when it was Mekama Line) used to be 3-cars :lol:, which the Tamagawa Line portion still is (used to be part of Mekama Line)).

Why are you so desperate to know about it. I advise you to eat some healthy foods and get your mind clearer and be balanced.I work in architecture and have studied some civil engineering and other rail-related issues in the past, I'd say I have a mind clear with the facts. What you got?

As for the platform doors, I belive the accidents would not occur if people stop worrying about themselves and making the problems unnecessary.:lol: Yeah, I mean, of course its just that simple :nuts: It's all in their mind! :yes: :crazy: . You ever been to Tokyo at all, and in particular ridden during rush hour? I do this daily. Try it some time.

Do not wish too much. That is my tip, and get out of the maze. Relax.

Ah, but you never got out of the maze. So why would you be giving tips?

TRZ do you think they allow Musicans and such at major Train Stations in japan or put Classical or Jazzy Music in the major Train Stations as they give it a more lively smooth atomsphere that you feel relax or something.I've seen both. Some stations don't allow it though. It depends on operator and ward by-laws I think.

also i don't know if i should say this TRZ but even though i love the stations in japan i don't know if the government wants to put something with Art and such to reflect the area and history around that station that would be really cool and you can tell which station is different from it.Sakuragichou is a great example of this kind of thing. Sakuragichou is actually the original Yokohama Station. It has a mini-exhibit about its history built into the station as you leave between platform and fare gate. Tokyo Station has this meeting place inside it by an architect called Edward Suzuki that is rather artistic as well, but Tokyo Station's building is itself a historical structure, although that part is a hotel now. Shinagawa I beleieve has something reflecting its history as well (it was along Japan's first railway in 1872). So sometimes it happens. Old Shiodome and Old Den-en-choufu Stations are also existing structures but not serviced by trains anymore (there are new stations with the same name in different locations today). There are a lot of station improvements going on these days, so one may see more of this kind of thing as these improvements, which are sometimes total re-builds, will bring. Shibuya will surely be one of the most dramatic in the near future, that one is designed by Tadao Ando (Japan's most famous architect). Shibuya already has Hachikou going for it though, that counts as history, right? ;) Keiou Shibuya is built into a landmark tower called Mark City. Kyoto Station is also a very fun work of art in its own right, go to the top of that building and look down :lol:. Kyoto Station is designed by Hiroshi Hara.

like lets say Akihibaba i want that station decoreted with electric lights and full of colorful and such that reflects its neighborhood or some kind of decoration.I think you mean Akihabara (秋葉原) - or Akiba (秋葉) as it is often abbreviated. Akiba actually was recently rebuilt when the TX Line opened just the other year. There's also a Station Plaza area that is of much higher quality than your average station. Akiba station is quite massive and its design today is spacious to reflect this need. The transfers at Akiba are unfortunately complicated, but given the situation they're stuck with, they did a good job. It should be noted that Akiba Electric Town is only one part of Akiba.

or lets say Shinjuki i want to see a statue and such with decorated city like features and such.Shinjuku's form today is built into skyscrapers like Lumine and Keiou Department stores. Seibu Shinjuku is built into a hotel. While the north side of the JR station leaves something to be desired above the tracks, unlike its southern counterpart, the south side is actually currently under construction for a new intercity bus terminal directly above the tracks. This construction seems to be never ending, but it should provide a pretty sweet level of integration with the railway services there. JR Shinjuku also recently added a new exit at Southern Terrace, a rather attractive little area in the immediate station vicinity, very well designed.

TRZ do you think they will put a Moggle Stature or something where Square Enix's Headquaters is at the nearest Train Station that would be neat to see a moogle and chocobo Statures there.

That would be Yoyogi Station. The Oedo Line actually dolled its platform up a little bit like a forest, I'm guessing to reflect the park by the same name, even though the nearest station to the park is Harajuku, not Yoyogi, but the Oedo Line's Yoyogi does make reference to its proximity to an animation school (it's a sub-name of the station for the Oedo Line's portion). I wouldn't hold my breath for the moogle at Yoyogi though. Yoyogi isn't the most spacious station.

Ah, but you never got out of the maze. So why would you be giving tips?
Because you have never been to Tokyo. I think you are mad, trying to know the things don't even exist. Perhaps you need some diet, if you are to survive in that city. Think only about yourself. Most of the things in Tokyo are not important to you at all. Don't you eat some junks? Are you below the level of Tokyo or what. Do you read what is written, you are not supposed to do that. That is fool, may not be the fact. Look in distance, Tokyo is not the city what you might imagine. I think you are stuck to something, that should never be that way. Rather than going to Tokyo, relax at some wealthy cultured nations. Wouldn't be better for you to go to Hong Kong or Singapore?

Why Tokyo. How does it seem. :lol:

Pity you, a miserable guy.

I have never been to Tokyo either, and I don't know where the things are located. I am not interested after all, and never want to visit. Tokyo is not my city, I don't need to know about it.

Probably you are a too honest person. Should be more flexible, I just worry about you. :)

If you use Toyoko Line (is it the abbreviation of Tokyo-Yokohama line or what?), stay in Yokohama or Shibuya. I have got a big present for you. Play with it. I don't need that junk but might be a good gift for you. If you wanted, I really want you to. I would therefore highly reccommend you to stop being so interested to Tokyo and speaking of yourself in public. It's very dangerous to do that.

*dusts off hands* :cheers:

jUxQni-gSnk

Is there any reason subway platforms don't have doors that go all the way to the ceiling like Yurikamome? Because once built that way, costs too much to install?

TRZ thanks for the info and yes Tokyo is like a huge city its very complicated to get around.

http://kotaku.com/370979/gundam-train-statue-erected

they eracted this at a station called "Shinjuku's Kamiigusa Station" in Tokyo and i want to know if anybody has seen it itas a gundam statue unless i guess you don't know about Gundam?

TRZ thanks for the info and yes Tokyo is like a huge city its very complicated to get around.

http://kotaku.com/370979/gundam-train-statue-erected

they eracted this at a station called "Shinjuku's Kamiigusa Station" in Tokyo and i want to know if anybody has seen it itas a gundam statue unless i guess you don't know about Gundam?

Oh okay, it's on the Seibu Shinjuku Line. I never heard of Kamiigusa 上井草station (it is in Suginami ward, not Shinjuku, the article is wrong), but I looked it up. Never been there, although I used to live kinda close to that area (Ochiai 落合).

Is there any reason subway platforms don't have doors that go all the way to the ceiling like Yurikamome? Because once built that way, costs too much to install?

Namboku Line has full-height doors at all stations I think (I can confirm this first hand from 目黒 Meguro up to 後楽園 Kourakuen). It is expensive, the gut/chest-high ones are preferred since they're cheaper.

wow TRZ your smarter then that article yeah the article is a gaming or media place where they put stuffs for video games and such.

but that gundam statue made me think that if you seen it since your in japan? are we pen pals though?

TRZ have you traveled on the new AGT yet and if you do tell us or bring your camera and take pictures ok.

Nothing is known? People who live in Tokyo can you help answer my questions?

I lived in Tokyo for a year and never rode a bus there once. The rail system is so well developed that you only need to ride the bus if you live in a specific area that doesn't have a close enough station.

As Kirk said, railway is the mode of transportation here, so buses only play secondary role. Having said it, there are still some bus fans in Japan, though they are not as many as rail fans. However, I am not one of the former, so I'll just jot down a brief info.

In Greater Tokyo, many private bus companies roughly correspond with the private railway companies of the area; Seibu Bus feeds roughly along Seibu Railway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seibu_Railway) lines, Keikyu Bus along Keikyu Railway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keihin_Electric_Express_Railway) lines, etc. Some differences include;
1. JR East (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Japan_Railway_Company) (JR Kanto Bus) mainly operates highway buses. It doesn't operate many local lines.
2. Toei Bus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toei_Bus) of Tokyo Metropolitan Bureau of Transportation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Metropolitan_Bureau_of_Transportation) enjoys the virtual monopoly in central Tokyo.
3. There are (of course) some bus-only operators and rail-only operators.

In many cases, especially in suburb, you get on a bus from rear. You pay the fare at front, when getting off. Fare changes depending on a distance, so an electronic fare board at front will tell you how much it will be for you.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6996/buscard002ablw7.jpg
This picture is that of Miyazaki, but you get the idea.

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/125/ticketmachineus4.jpg
To prove where you got on, you have to take a numbered ticket when entering. You will throw both the ticket and coins into a fare box. They don't give you changes, so you will have to use an exchange machine beforehand if you didn't have exact coins.

Toei Bus is a big exception to these rules, as it basically charges same fare for all the trips (JPY 200). You get on from front paying the fare, and get off from rear.

Nowadays, most, if not all, buses accept PASMO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PASMO) (and Suica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suica)), so paying the fare became much easier for users.

Chassis makers in Japan include Hino (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hino_Motors), Isuzu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isuzu), Mitsubishi Fuso (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Fuso_Truck_and_Bus_Corporation), and Nissan Diesel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UD_Nissan_Diesel). Foreign bus makers are largely unheard of in this country. Coach builders (makers of car bodies over chassis) include;
J Bus: Hino and Isuzu affiliated
Mitsubishi Fuso Bus Manufacturing: Mitsubishi Fuso and Nissan Diesel affiliated
Nishinippon Shatai Kogyo: Subsidiary of Nishi-Nippon Railroad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nishi-Nippon_Railroad), the largest bus operator in Japan.

These are examples of Toei Bus cars made by the 4 companies.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Tobus_S-D333_green-arrows.jpg/120px-Tobus_S-D333_green-arrows.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/ToeibusS-M123.jpg/120px-ToeibusS-M123.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/KL-MP37JK_Toei_Bus_B-K520.jpg/120px-KL-MP37JK_Toei_Bus_B-K520.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/ToeibusS-P533.jpg/120px-ToeibusS-P533.jpg
Hino - Isuzu - Mitsubishi Fuso - Nissan Diesel

Fans surely see big differences between these four... I presume.

See the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bus_operating_companies_in_Japan_%28east%29#Kant.C5.8D_region) for the list (and links to Japanese articles) of minor operators.

Toei Bus (central Tokyo)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/4/4d/Tobus_B-R113_BRChybrid.jpg

Hato Bus (central Tokyo, sightseeing buses only)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/3/3e/Hatobus668_newgala.jpg

Keio Bus (western Tokyo)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/6/68/KeioBusMinami_M39881.jpg

Odakyu Bus (Tokyo and Kanagawa)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/9/96/OdakyuBus_A9215.jpg

Kanagawa Chuo Kotsu (western Kanagawa, Odakyu Group)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/6/60/TwinLiner.JPG

Tokyu Bus (Tokyo and Kanagawa)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Tokyubus-M744-kuro02-20071010.jpg/800px-Tokyubus-M744-kuro02-20071010.jpg

Keikyu Bus (Tokyo and Kanagawa)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/c/c0/KeihinKyukoBus_C2834.jpg

Yokohama City Bus (Kanagawa)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/4/4c/Yokohamacitybus_4-1590-hamarin.jpg

Sotetsu Bus (Kanagawa)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/KL-UA452KAN-SotetsuBus-50.jpg

Seibu Bus (Tokyo and Saitama)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/4/43/SeibuBus_A7-241.jpg

Tobu Bus (Tokyo and Saitama)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/thumb/9/94/Tobu_bus_misato2523.JPG/800px-Tobu_bus_misato2523.JPG

Kokusai Kogyo (independent, Tokyo and Saitama)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/b/ba/Kokusaikogyo_3046.JPG

Keisei Bus (Tokyo and Chiba)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/9/95/Keiseibus_4813_B10M-articurated.jpg

Wikimedia Commons have countless images categorized as Buses in Japan (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Buses_in_Japan). If you are Japanese literate, Japanese Wikipedia has even more images (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:%E3%83%90%E3%82%B9%E7%94%BB%E5%83%8F_%28%E4%BA%8B%E6%A5%AD%E8%80%85%E5%88%A5%29).

I believe I've posted this before on some thread, but anyway, this is a composition of official route maps of Toei Bus.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9851/tokyotoeibusyq0.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tokyotoeibusyq0.jpg)
(Click to enlarge)

For the map of the entire bus network including other operators, see this website (http://www.geocities.jp/busservicemap/index10.html). (Click 路線図を見る of each pages.)

Shibuya Community Bus "Hachiko"
http://www.city.shibuya.tokyo.jp/eng/com_bus/index.html

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_4844.jpg

cute

Thank you all for your replies.
As I see, buses are mostly one-section, articulated are not so spread. Are they all low-floor buses? Do they run on special lanes reserved for them or just together with cars and other vehicles?
And what about new technologies? Are there many buses that run on fuel cell or hybrid buses?

They look very colourful by the way :)

As for Kanagawa Chuo Kotsu (western Kanagawa, Odakyu Group) it is a Neoplan, the same model or its copy I've seen in Hangzhou, China. Marvellous design.

One more question, what is an approximate disctance between two stops? I've heard bus stops are very often too far from one another.

Shibuya Community Bus "Hachiko"
http://www.city.shibuya.tokyo.jp/eng/com_bus/index.html

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_4844.jpg

cute

lol めっちゃ可愛!

I believe articulated buses are basically prohibited in Japan. Kanagawa Chuo Kotsu and Keisei Bus are the two special exceptions.
Most (but not all) buses are either two-steps or non-step (meaning low floor). In case of Toei (http://www.kotsu.metro.tokyo.jp/english/images/pdf/toei_bus.pdf) (PDF!) as of 2006, they had 146 two-steps and 854 non-steps, among 1467 cars. Also, they had 55 diesel-electric hybrids, 42 diesel-hydraulic hybrids, 157 CNG (gas) buses, but 0 fuel cell buses.
Bus lanes do exist, but I don't know if they are many compared with other countries. As of 1997, there were 1486 sections of bus lanes (including both bus-only and bus-priority lanes) in Japan, or 2233 km in total.

One more question, what is an approximate disctance between two stops? I've heard bus stops are very often too far from one another.

I personally didn't have such an impression, but we'd have to wait for some knowledgable poster to answer that.

Thank you again. One more question: if most buses ares still not low-floor ones, how are they adapted for disabled people? I see here many signs on buses.

FML's last post already shows thart most of the buses are "non step" low floor buses. Most of the buses with singing in the picture probably are,
And since they have usually only 1 seat per side they have a very broad aisle so it's not to difficult maneuvering with a wheelchair in the bus (when it's not to busy of course).

Non Step buses are very much needed with the rapidly aging population btw.

free bus

shinjyuku station-park tower
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4316/005qm3.jpg
nihonbashi-
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1036/011js4.jpg
odaiba-
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1764/018on2.jpg
ooimachi-racetrack
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4112/024yg3.jpg
Tokyo Station-marunouchi
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/5941/050416155700zf3.jpg

megurin
ueno-taitouku
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7003/100345pcmyo0.jpg
Other community buses
There are 36 kinds of community buses in Tokyo.
http://www.geocities.jp/dotabaters/communitybus.htm
tokyo sightseeing bus
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/52/c00099815173385vm2.jpg

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/584/53d19758e0130736d5cfde6iq3.jpg
character bus(tachikawa route bus)
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2896/b008187723193940mo7.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/558/0708173dp4.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4518/0708174vl2.jpg

thats really cool the different varitys of buses including hybrids and CNG and such but its also good that they do serve because there are areas where Rail Service is not common in japan.

hello where is everybody oh man everybody left?

Where's the Pokemon bus? :)

I'll be posting some pics of the Meguro Line extension between Motosumiyoshi and Musashi-Kosugi soon and looking at how it has been constructed (also some of the operations details regarding the yard at Motosumiyoshi). I need a scanner which I might not have access to until next week though. Also found a pretty damn good view near Musashi-Kosugi Station, too (not as high the new redevelopment projects though :lol: )

there is a pokemon bus wow i didn't know Nintendo or the pokemon company owned a bus company? do they though?

i want to know something do you guys and girls use the shinkansen alot on your commute or is it to travel and where?

is it expensive to ride on the Shinkansen or cheaper?

also is the TGV faster or the Shinkansen faster and why are both of them different if they are both HSR?

Shinkansen is for longer rides of a few hundred km's.

A one-way reserved seat ride from Tokyo to Osaka (552km) is about US$135.

i want to know something do you guys and girls use the shinkansen alot on your commute or is it to travel and where?

is it expensive to ride on the Shinkansen or cheaper?

Keep in mind; the Shinkansen competes with domestic air travel. It is used for longer-distance commutes by those that can afford it, but generally Shinkansen markets and commuter markets are different, and only overlap when commutes get VERY long.

also is the TGV faster or the Shinkansen faster and why are both of them different if they are both HSR?
If we compare the Tokaido Shinkansen between Tokyo and Shin-Osaka (552.6 km) with the TGV Sud-Est between Paris Gare de Lyon and Lyon Part-Dieu (425 km). You'll see that the it's almost the same, the average speed of the TGV is a bit faster (218 km/h vs. 213 km/h).

But there are 3 points that should be taken into account:
1) The TGV max speed is faster, 300 km/h vs. 270 km/h
2) The TGV service is non stop, vs. the 4 stops of the Nozomi
3) The TGV has to use 16 km of regular non high speed track, the Shinkansen is all High Speed although in Tokyo it doesn't go to fast.

All in all there isn't to much a difference in average speed between the two systems. The Shinkansen accelerates faster then the TGV, that's why it can keep a high average with more stops. And the TGV also uses it's higher maximum speed to keep up with the Shinkansen.

Both are just good and fast systems, they are a bit different because they're different systems developed in 2 different countries. Not every fast sports car looks and performs like a Ferrari, that's just the way it works in this world.

But there are 3 points that should be taken into account:
1) The TGV max speed is faster, 300 km/h vs. 270 km/h
The N700 hits 300, doesn't it?

3) The TGV has to use 16 km of regular non high speed track, the Shinkansen is all High Speed although in Tokyo it doesn't go to fast.
Not all of Tokyo, once it crosses into Shinagawa Ward (note that Shinagawa Station is not in Shinagawa Ward, but north of the border... this is why "North Shinagawa Station" is south of Shinagawa Station). The Shinkansen is slow between Tokyo Station and Shinagawa Station due to the curves and slopes in this area, which includes a grade-separated switch to the Shinkansen Yard in Koto Ward. Once it is south of the Yamanote Line though, running alongside the Yokosuka Line, it is full speed ahead. The Yokosuka Line is no straggler itself either, I'll add, it really guns it. These tear through Tokyo's Ota Ward at high speed.

Where's the Pokemon bus? :)

there is a Pokemon Monorail train on the tokyo monorail; it runs right past my living room window. i've never been able to get a pic of it, though, since it's just one train out of hundreds.

The N700 only goes 300 km/h on the Sanyo Shinkansen, on the Tokaido it's only limited to 270 km/h. But the TGV is also limited to 300 km/on the Sud-Est, while it can go 320 km/h on parts of the Rhône-Alpes, Méditerranée and Est lines.

I've seen the ANA Pokemon jet in London so I thought they'd decorate a bus somewhere.

Then there is that Hello Kitty plane for EVA Air, ironically.

The N700 only goes 300 km/h on the Sanyo Shinkansen, on the Tokaido it's only limited to 270 km/h. But the TGV is also limited to 300 km/on the Sud-Est, while it can go 320 km/h on parts of the Rhône-Alpes, Méditerranée and Est lines.

The San'you has always been 300km/h, JR West 500 series (which JR Central is "evicting" off of the Toukaidou) has always been clocking that speed along the San'you. I thought that the big hype over the N700 was the fact that it did raise the max speed along Toukaidou over previous models.

No, it only increased the speed to 270 km/h on some parts of the line where the previous max was 255 km/h with the tilting system. And it accelerates much faster then any other Shinkansen, so that also results in a speed increase. But for now it's only a speed increase of 3 minutes, although that may increase when the N700 completely takes over from the 700 on the Nozomi services.

For my comparison I just used the 1st trains that would leave Tokyo and Paris at that moment from online time tables , so I compared just regular services right now today.

thank you for telling Momo, TRZ and Tamago.

what $135 dollars to hop on the shinkansen to Osaka? or to tokyo wow thats expensive, also is there a resturant on the shinkansen like the TGV has?

what about the Tokiado line how much does that cost from Tokyo to Osaka and vice versa, also how fast can it get me there, do i have to change train routes?

also i have heard of the new Shinkansen rail car i believe is called the E5 i wonder what it will be based on i hope it will be similar to the JR west shinkansen 500 Series get it E5=500 series.

also is there a resturant on the shinkansen like the TGV has?
No, not since 2000. But you can buy your ekiben/bento at the station and from the trolley in the train. I guess that's what most people did before 2000 anyway.
what about the Tokiado line how much does that cost from Tokyo to Osaka and vice versa, also how fast can it get me there, do i have to change train routes?
You mean via the old Tokaido line? That's a bit cheaper you can do it for $100, but you have to change more like 6 to 8 times and it takes 8 to 9 hours. And the fastest route is via the Chuo-main line (with less changing trains), that's logical because of the regular Azusa Limited express services. But then it's not even necessarily cheaper then the Shinkansen when you use reserved seats.
also i have heard of the new Shinkansen rail car i believe is called the E5 i wonder what it will be based on i hope it will be similar to the JR west shinkansen 500 Series get it E5=500 series.
The E5 is from JR East and will be used on the Tohoku Shinkansen. It's based on the Fastech 360S, that Shinkansen with those cat ears. It's numbered E5 because they already have the E1 to E4 series, so it's just a continuation.

I can imagine that people like the 500 series so much, but that one is already more then 10 years old. New trains won't be based on that design anymore, just look at the N700, E4 and the Fastech 360S and you will see that a more "duck-like" nose is the current future. It has a better streamline, especially when 2 trains pass each other in a tunnel.

oh thanks for telling me also i want to know something as well.

i thought the 500 series was the best design for the shinkansen i didn't know about the duck design was better i thought the 500 was cooler?

also why there isn't a double decker or a E class rail cars on the Tokaido, Sanyo and Kynushu Shinkansen while the others do i don't get that?

also what does it mean by the Radius i heard that the minuim radius of the shinkansen is 4,000 meters but for the tokaido shinkansen is 2,500 meters? what does this means i wonder if a picture is helpful or a video?

also about the Romance car how come the recent rail car one can enter the tokyo metro while the others can't?

The biggest reasons (other then that the lines are operated by different companies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Railways_Group) after the 1987 privatization) are the technical differences between the lines.

The Tokaido Shinkansen (+ Sanyo & Kyushu) are electrified with 25,000V, 60Hz, the Tohoku and it's branches have a 25,000V, 50Hz system. They also uses different ATC safety systems. They wouldn't work on the other line.

This doesn't make it impossible to let trains ride over each other system, but then they have to be equipped with multi voltage and different safety systems. But since there isn't a physical connection between the 2 lines there's no need for that, especially since it makes the trains more expensive to buy.

The question why JR Central doesn't use double deckers is probably because their line is build for long trains that have already enough capacity.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And radius, that's some mathematical, but very simple.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/Straal-cirkel.png
r = radius

If you have a curve in the line you can continue it to make a full circle, the radius is the length from the center point to it's perimeter (the length of red line in the picture). The rule is the shorter the radius the tighter the curve.

And since High Speed trains like straight lines the radius is important. A smaller radius makes it more difficult to go full speed through a curve. That's why the parts of the Tokaido line that has curves of 2,500 meter have a speed restriction of 255 km/h. If the train would go faster there's possibility that the train could derail, but on a more practical level it would also seriously lower the riding comfort because of the centrifugal forces.

The N700 series with it's tilting system can go faster in tight curves since it neutralizes the centrifugal forces by tilting inwards.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And the running of the Romance cars into the Tokyo metro system is mostly a technical and operational story.

It's already common business that commuter trains have through runs into the Tokyo Metro, so technically it's possible to run trains on certain metro lines in Tokyo. Romance cars just have to be equipped with the right systems to run into the metro. Some are, others don't, simply because not all Romance Car services go onto the Metro. And that's just a choice of the operator of the train.

But those trains that run through are not for commuters, since they don't stop at every metro station. And yes, from my own experience it's strange to see a Romance Car drive trough a metro station while you're waiting at the platform.

i thought the 500 series was the best design for the shinkansen i didn't know about the duck design was better i thought the 500 was cooler?


The JR West 500 IS cooler. That doesn't mean it is better. The dominance of the JR West 500 is AESTHETICS (i.e. it LOOKS cool), not technical specifications. The duck-nose has never been an aesthetic winner, but physics is on the duck-nose's side when it comes to aerodynamics and resulting forces. JR West 500 will likely remain the aesthetic favourite for a while yet, although the stiffest competition will probably come from the fastech series. The N700 cannot compete, it loses easily in aesthetics to the JR West 500, but the fastechs, they can compete... but I still think JR West 500 would win.

thank you Momo and TRZ so i get it now its two different electrical systems and momo thank you for the Radius thing.

also thanks for telling me about the romance car in the Metro thing.

but man its going to be werid to see the JR West 500 series end up in a museum that quickly the looks are too awesome to be in a museum, if they won't use it anymore maybe they can give it to Germany or china for their high speed Rail.

its werid how the japanese is taking off the JR West 500 Series putting it aside and it has the outstanding awesome look ever on a train espically HSR.

^^JR West 500 will remain on the San'you Line for a while still, it is only JR Central that wants it off the Toukaidou. JR West OWNS that San'you, so it is free to run the JR West 500 on that line, but JR Central owns the Toukaidou, so JR Central can kick the JR West 500 off that line, and they are.

I also didn't help that there were only 9 sets of the 500 series, that's much less then the 91 700s (31 for JR West) and the planned 54 N700s (12 for JR West). Small series are usually just too expensive in maintenance to keep them going.
But since JR West already had the trains and they have to replace the 0 series on the Kodama trains they will still be in service another 10 years or so.


As for giving them away, here in the Netherlands we could use some working high speed trains! :) Too bad that they're just a bit to big for our tracks.

also i wonder why does the Tokiado Shinkansen the overhead wires frame looks different then the rest of the shinkansen routes? and why is most of the tokiado shinkansen route on level while other shinkansen routes are on Viaducts?

umm i also heard of a railway called the Hakone Tozan Railway it seems to be a mountain railway?

i also heard that there is a Ropeway and also a cable car along with it is this destination popular?

also do you have pictures of it?

and i want to know something i have heard that the romance trains go to the hakone station and the smaller cars go much higher why is that?

The Hakone Tozan Railway is indeed a mountain railroad running from Hakone to Gora were you can change for the Hakone Tozan Cable Car that brings you up to Sounzan. Were you can change again for the Hakone Ropeway a Gondola lift that brings you to Owakudani (1044 meter high) and down again to Togendai on Lake Ashi. On clear days you have a spectacular view on Mount Fuji.

Anyway, Hakone Tozan Railway has 1435mm gauge while the line from (Shinjuku - Odawara - Hakone Yumoto has 1067mm gauge. I found it a bit strange that the normal railway was narrow gauge and the mountain railway standard gauge, in Europe it's usually the other way around.

Pictures:

Odakyu trains: (click the thumbnails)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/th_IMG_5505.jpg (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5505.jpg) http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/th_IMG_5506.jpg (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5506.jpg) http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/th_IMG_5507.jpg (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5507.jpg) http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/th_IMG_5494.jpg (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5494.jpg)

Hakone Tozan Railway:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5466.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/th_IMG_5467.jpg (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5467.jpg) http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/th_IMG_5493.jpg (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5493.jpg) http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/th_IMG_5496.jpg (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5496.jpg)

Gora bus station, with turn table for buses:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/th_IMG_5465.jpg (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5465.jpg)

Hakone Tozan Cable Car:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5462.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/th_IMG_5409.jpg (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5409.jpg) http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/th_IMG_5460.jpg (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5460.jpg)

Sounzan station bell:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/th_IMG_5459.jpg (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5459.jpg)

Hakone Ropeway:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5450.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/th_IMG_5412.jpg (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5412.jpg) http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/th_IMG_5443.jpg (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5443.jpg) http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/th_IMG_5432.jpg (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5432.jpg)

In the clouds:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/th_IMG_5414.jpg (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5414.jpg)

As you can see when I was there it was cloudy and a bit rainy and there was no view of Mount Fuji at all. Oh well, I got back to Tokyo early to go to a Canary Club event in Akiba that I didn't plan to go to. :cheer:

But through the clouds I didn't see this on the line, luckily they had a picture! ;)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/momo1435/IMG_5492.jpg

oh thanks for the pictures it must be a beauitful place to go to worth the tourist attraction.

i saw some videos about the mountain railway and i am wondering why is it one track should it be two tracks to hakone? or is it cheaper just one track?

also i heard that the ropeway was renovated is it better that it was or its better the gondola ways?

also the cable car and the mountain railway do people live there is it a way to commute as well and how much do they cost also how long does it take?

another thing is that Romance car the white one looks beauitful it looks like a princess rail car or something i mean who designed that beautiful rail car and why do they call it the romance car what is so special about that Rail car is it a Rail car full with Love?

also i wanted to say this but anyways i will post it again.

i wonder why does the Tokiado Shinkansen about the overhead wires frame looks different then the rest of the shinkansen routes? and why is most of the tokiado shinkansen route on level while other shinkansen routes are on Viaducts?

i saw some videos about the mountain railway and i am wondering why is it one track should it be two tracks to hakone? or is it cheaper just one track?
Obviously it is cheaper with just one track. I don't like single-track lines since it prevents the operation of frequent service. If you are not going to run frequent service because of low demand, my advice would be run a bus service instead. Single-tracked railways are self-defeating in purpose. Just my opinion that if you don't run a double-tracked line, you won't get a good Return On Investment.
Exception would be if stops are REALLY close together.

another thing is that Romance car the white one looks beauitful it looks like a princess rail car or something i mean who designed that beautiful rail car and why do they call it the romance car what is so special about that Rail car is it a Rail car full with Love?
Romance car is all first-class and requires a special fare to ride. Romance car, as far as business goes, is the same as any special-fare limited express service as seen on other railways, like Seibu's New Red Arrow service, just with Odakyuu's own branding of the service as "Romance car" (which is unique to Odakyuu), again, same as Seibu branded their first-class special-fare service as "New Red Arrow". It's just a marketing strategy.

oh so thats what the romance car is because well i really like the white one and it could offer nice views as well.

also do you place nicknames or names to the Rail cars that you know or use everyday?

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg74/Goten2255/Transportation/Trains/OER_50000.jpg

wow this is a pretty picture of this romance car did this rail car won alot of awards is such a beauitful train it seems to be like a princess would ride on it.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg74/Goten2255/Transportation/Trains/60000_of_Odakyu_Electric_Railway.jpg

this one i like its blue like my favorite color and it can travel on the metro which makes it cooler but is this one greater then the white one or is it about the same?

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg74/Goten2255/Transportation/Trains/4000-First_of_Odakyu_Electric_Railw.jpg

umm i found this is this the metro verison of the Romance car company's? and what services does it do and also is it cheaper then the Romance car?

hey i want to ask all of you do you think there is a japanese version of like a thomas and friends show in japan but with the japanese trains and such including the shinkansen on Children's networks that will be pretty funny to see.

sorry about that i think i will head to serious questions now.

i don't know but have you noticed that the Tokaido Shinkansen has well the overhead Catarney has this kind of catarney design

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg74/Goten2255/Transportation/Trains/JRC-TEC-N700.jpg

but whats strange about it is that i don't see that kind of design in other shinkansen routes besides the Tokaido shinkansen why is that and also why is it that its mostly on the ground while the other lines are elevated or on the ground sometimes is it cheaper to be elevated?

i think JR central should consider to put double decker shinkansens because if the Tokaido shinkansen is the busiest then this should be the form to do it in like the TGV Sud est has double decker TGV why not the JR Central Tokaido shinkansen?

also do you place nicknames or names to the Rail cars that you know or use everyday?Certain trains are easily recognized, but don't have nick-names really. Seibu is easily identified by their yellow trains for example. Seibu just released a new model as well though, and it has a name; "The Smile" train.
Some Toukyuu lines have also taken on easily identified rolling stock, too, such as the new Ooimachi express, and the new Ikegami and Tamagawa lines' trains.

umm i found this is this the metro verison of the Romance car company's? and what services does it do and also is it cheaper then the Romance car?That's the newest model in their regular (non-romance car) fleet. Those require only a regular fare. It runs all types of service except limited express (which is reserved for the Romance car): Local, Section-Semi Express, Semi Express, Express, Tama Express (through Chiyoda Line), and Rapid Express.

oh thanks for telling me because i was a little well with the question mark i wonder why do japanese trains some of them look pretty while some american trains look like crap?

but TRZ awnser me about the the catraney design it seems to be different then the regular designs of the other shinkansen catarneys why is that?

the question is on the last post.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg74/Goten2255/Transportation/Trains/E655-test_run.jpg

this seems to be a special kind of train and it looks cool i heard that the royal family uses this train is it electric and diesel?

also i heard that the ropeway was renovated is it better that it was or its better the gondola ways?

The renovated system is called funitel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funitel). It is an aerial lift (generally a gondola lift) with two cables sustaining a gondola. It's supposed to be stronger to winds than normal gondola lifts.
In case of Hakone Ropeway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakone_Ropeway), the possible drawback of the renovation is you now have to transfer a gondola at one point, which you didn't have to before.

also the cable car and the mountain railway do people live there is it a way to commute as well and how much do they cost also how long does it take?

Yeah, but such a usage (commuters) must be more or less negligible, I guess.

why do they call it the romance car what is so special about that Rail car is it a Rail car full with Love?

In 1920s, many Japanese rail companies named their special trains Romance Cars (Romansu Kaa), as the word romance (romansu) sounded "Western" (=modern) at the time. I assume they meant something like romantic, fantastic, or translunar, by the word.
Only Odakyu still uses the word, so it has now become a brand name of them.

hey i want to ask all of you do you think there is a japanese version of like a thomas and friends show in japan but with the japanese trains and such including the shinkansen on Children's networks that will be pretty funny to see.

Choose the one you like.
Shinkansen (http://www.sanrio.co.jp/characters/shinkansen/index.html)
Hikarian (http://www.toho-a-park.com/character/hikari/index.html)
Rail Girls (http://rail-g.net/rail-g/rail-g_tec.html)

Maybe the most famous one is Shinkansen by Sanrio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanrio). (But Thomas is much more famous even in Japan.)
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2956/800600ls9.jpg

why is it that its mostly on the ground while the other lines are elevated or on the ground sometimes is it cheaper to be elevated?

Because it's cheaper not to be elevated. Unlike other Shinkansen lines, Tokaido Shinkansen was built back in 1960s, when Japan was not quite rich.

i think JR central should consider to put double decker shinkansens because if the Tokaido shinkansen is the busiest then this should be the form to do it in like the TGV Sud est has double decker TGV why not the JR Central Tokaido shinkansen?

The simple answer would be because JR Central is more conservative company compared with JR East of SNCF.

According to Wikipedia, JR Central rejects the idea of double decker on Tokaido Shinkansen because;
1: They have to adopt different seat numbers from other train sets (all of them currently with 1323 seats).
2: It's less friendly to handicapped users.
3: It damages the track worse then single deckers. (Notice the Tokaido track is older than other Shinkansen lines. It uses good old ballast tracks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_ballast), not slab tracks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_way#Slab_track).)

To resolve congestions, JR Central only uses a train set of 16 cars, 1323 seats (except of 500s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/500_Series_Shinkansen) by JR West with 1324 seats). E4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E4_Series_Shinkansen), a double decker used by JR East (not on Tokaido) has "only" 1634 seats in maximum, so there isn't that big difference.

i didn't know that double decker trains put more stress on the Railway route of the tokaido shinkansen thats really new info to me because i see that the TGV sud Est puts double decker and that was the first HSR line in France and i thought Japan was the same thing but boy was i wrong.

i heard also that the Tokaido shinkansen got the money off something that they used a portion of it to build the Shinkansen because it was a greater need for the tokaido Normal Railway line, i heard something like that on the discovery channel or something along time ago.

also if you say its heavy for double decker because i thought Shinkansen were light as in light weight?

Thomas is more famous in japan wow i didn't knew that its sad that Thomas won't have the Eurostar or the London Underground in it as well.

i also heard that Fastech 360 had a cartoon character a girl with cat ears because that rail car has a cat like ears for breaking, i seen some cartoon like characters like that from Railway cars and so forth is it popular in japan or does japan has a thing for cuteness?

i got to admit alot of these japanese trains have style i mean its like fashion for trains its like they designed them really closely and such seeing the pretty white romance car i was wow what a pretty train its beautiful some American trains are ugly but they function just right and some american trains are pretty slick and beauitiful as well, i know there are european trains that has a sense of style but i thought most japanese trains well they didn't but now i am seeing them in a new light and i can say its like fashion.

oh and you say it uses ballast tracks whats the differences between ballast tracks and slabs? i maybe an idiot asking that question though so i am sorry about that.

i didn't know that double decker trains put more stress on the Railway route of the tokaido shinkansen thats really new info to me because i see that the TGV sud Est puts double decker and that was the first HSR line in France and i thought Japan was the same thing but boy was i wrong.They are engineered differently. Plain and simple. It's not done by the same company, so that should be obvious.

The Japanese encountered some unpleasant surprises when they switched to Slab Track for the San'you Shinkansen, discovering the concept of "tunnel boom." :lol: Residents were not amused. They had to build special tunnel entrances to deal with the sound control issue.

i heard also that the Tokaido shinkansen got the money off something that they used a portion of it to build the Shinkansen because it was a greater need for the tokaido Normal Railway line, i heard something like that on the discovery channel or something along time ago.
Nonono, at the time the JNR Tokaido Line was completely saturated, they had no means of adding any more capacity to the line without building a new line beside it. So the reality was that they had to be an alleviator line, and when this became clear, the Japanese Government agreed that if it was going to do that, it should be designed to go as fast as possible, and thus the Shinkansen was born.

also if you say its heavy for double decker because i thought Shinkansen were light as in light weight?Well, it certainly is compared to U.S. standards.

i also heard that Fastech 360 had a cartoon character a girl with cat ears because that rail car has a cat like ears for breaking, i seen some cartoon like characters like that from Railway cars and so forth is it popular in japan or does japan has a thing for cuteness?:hahaha: Ooooooooh yes, Japan definately has a thing for cuteness :yes:. It's like a cult

oh and you say it uses ballast tracks whats the differences between ballast tracks and slabs? i maybe an idiot asking that question though so i am sorry about that.

Ballast track is the kind of track that has rocks around it with wood (or concrete) sleepers/ties. Slab track doesn't have the rocks or sleepers/ties, and is typically seen in subways. Slab track requires less maintenance.

....
2: It's less friendly to handicapped users.
3: It damages the track worse then single deckers. (Notice the Tokaido track is older than other Shinkansen lines. It uses good old ballast tracks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_ballast), not slab tracks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_way#Slab_track).)

To resolve congestions, JR Central only uses a train set of 16 cars, 1323 seats (except of 500s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/500_Series_Shinkansen) by JR West with 1324 seats). E4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E4_Series_Shinkansen), a double decker used by JR East (not on Tokaido) has "only" 1634 seats in maximum, so there isn't that big difference.

2: It's true, but the worst is the dwell time
3: Not necessary true. Lighter construction and more track friendly bogies will do the job. It is not very difficult but certainly costs more.

Around 25% more capacity is quite a difference.

I stumbled across this incredible map:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/2/27/%e6%b8%af%e5%8c%ba(%e6%9d%b1%e4%ba%ac%e9%83%bd)%e5%8c%ba%e5%86%85%e3%81%a8%e5%91%a8%e8%be%ba%e3%81%ae%e9%89%84%e9%81%93%e9%a7%85%e5%88%a5%e4%b9%97%e8%bb%8a%e4%ba%ba%e6%95%b0.png

Here is where I found it:
http://wpedia.search.goo.ne.jp/search/%B9%C1%B6%E8_(%C5%EC%B5%FE%C5%D4)/detail.html?LINK=1&kind=epedia

This is only 港区 and I wondered if there are more maps like this. Sorry, but my Japanese is to bad to find them myself. Could some statistics-fanatic help me? :)



EDIT:

Its alway like that - If you search for half an hour, you will find the answer 5 minutes after finally asking for help. :)

This map is the work of a wikipedia contributor (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%88%A9%E7%94%A8%E8%80%85:Beagle). While he made maps for all central wards, only Minato-Ku seems to have an adjusted map with ridership statistics. Maybe he will some day complete this quadruple.

why doesn't other countries use cuteness to their railways and such like japan does?

so which is better Slab Tracks or Ballast tracks on Normal railways and shinkansen?

will there be more LRT built in japan because i heard of a couple of new LRT planned or being built in japan also its because it cheaper to be built as well and can serve places where there is little Railways in towns and cities in japan.

AGT seems to be a great option but to me but its very expensive in our standards.

also i wonder something has the shinkansen has made an appearance in Films, animation, Comics and so forth and which of them are?

I stumbled across this incredible map:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/2/27/%e6%b8%af%e5%8c%ba(%e6%9d%b1%e4%ba%ac%e9%83%bd)%e5%8c%ba%e5%86%85%e3%81%a8%e5%91%a8%e8%be%ba%e3%81%ae%e9%89%84%e9%81%93%e9%a7%85%e5%88%a5%e4%b9%97%e8%bb%8a%e4%ba%ba%e6%95%b0.png



Hey Norbb, how are you doing? :wave: The last time I came across with one of your posts was like five years ago :lol:

Well, that map by Beagle-san has to be one of the otakuest maps ever made :lol: The thing is I find it quite interesting, being a ridership stats fan myself :D

Hey Norbb, how are you doing? :wave: The last time I came across with one of your posts was like five years ago :lol:

Well, that map by Beagle-san has to be one of the otakuest maps ever made :lol: The thing is I find it quite interesting, being a ridership stats fan myself :D

It is rather surprising to find subway stations in Tokyo that have less than a 5-digit ridership figure. In Toronto, we point and laugh at the subway stations in our network that are 4-digit in ridership. Tokyo has 5 times Toronto's population. I think there's about 12 such stations in our network like that.

Why is it that I find it not surprising that most stations with 4-digit ridership are on Toei Lines :lol:

Hey Norbb, how are you doing? :wave: The last time I came across with one of your posts was like five years ago :lol:Great, thanks! I hope everythings okay on your side of the planet too?

Damn, half a decade of "participating" with 0,16 posts per day... dont remind me of that. :lol:


Why is it that I find it not surprising that most stations with 4-digit ridership are on Toei Lines :lol:Interesting, sometimes I feel like Toei lines seem to be somehow routed with tapping of areas not having a Tokyo Metro connection in mind, instead of maximum passenger flow. Or am I wrong and it is just because having less destinations within the system. Sucks to be the smaller network. :)




This map features so many interesting things, I dont even know where to start...

The Ginza and Hanzōmon lines show what their main purposes are - shoveling incoming private rail passengers out of Shibuya. I suppose the short 6-car-trains on the Ginza-sen (compared to 10-car on Hanzōmon) are the reason for the difference between the two.

It surprises me that the Shinjuku and Marunouchi lines are weaker at Shinjuku Station than I would expect.
Marunouchi line has shorter trains and "intercepts" Chūō line already at Ogikubo with 66.869 passengers, so I understand that. But Shinjuku line? I guess it is the routing and the "Toei-effect".

Speaking of "interceptions" - there is another thing that caught my eye:
Compared to the interception of Tōkyū Tōyoko Line by the Hibiya Line at Naka-Meguro, the transferring at Yoyogi-Uehara between the Odakyū Odawara Line and Chiyoda Line is very weak. Is the interoperation that strong or the Chiyoda Line unattractive?

...




For me this is simply the Holy Grail... The Rosetta Stone for understanding the subway system of Tokyo - unfortunately only for the southern part of the Yamanote Loop. :(

I managed to find data for the TOEI lines at the end of this document: http://www.kotsu.metro.tokyo.jp/english/images/pdf/subway_system.pdf
(including fa-reaking depths and amount of escalators for every station !!!)

Does anyone know where to get similar ridership data for Tokyo Metro?

Don't know if there are in English, but most operators at least have ridership datas available in Japanese.

Tokyo Metro (http://www.tokyometro.jp/corporate/data/jinin/index.html)
Toei Subway (http://www.kotsu.metro.tokyo.jp/subway/kanren/passengers.html)
JR East (http://www.jreast.co.jp/passenger/index.html) (This data only counts entries, while other operators count both entries and exits.)
Keikyu (http://www.keikyu.co.jp/train/kakueki/avr.shtml)
Tokyu (http://www.tokyu.co.jp/railway/railway/west/gaiyou/joukou.html)
Odakyu (http://www.odakyu.jp/company/about/jyokou.html)
Keio (http://www.keio.co.jp/group/traffic/railroading/passengers/index.html)
Seibu (http://www.seibu-group.co.jp/railways/kouhou/joukou/index.html)
Tobu (http://www.tobu.co.jp/rail/frail_2_2.html)
Keisei (http://www.keisei.co.jp/keisei/tetudou/people_top.htm)

Apparently, some fans even made videos (http://www.nicovideo.jp/tag/%E4%B9%97%E9%99%8D%E8%80%85%E6%95%B0%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%82%AD%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA) solely about ridership data. (Requires Nico Nico Douga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nico_Nico_Douga) registration.)

Thank You very much!
I had no idea what to enter in a search engine or where to look on those sites - my Japanese is to weak for that. At least I have no problem with place name Kanjis. :)

And thanks for the NicoNicoDouga tip - just registered.

Thank You very much!
I had no idea what to enter in a search engine or where to look on those sites - my Japanese is to weak for that. At least I have no problem with place name Kanjis. :)

And thanks for the NicoNicoDouga tip - just registered.

THIS is the Rosetta stone for ridership figures :D

http://www.train-media.net/report/0711/joukou_2006.pdf

I took this picture in Kobe yesterday:

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8602/p1210156vj9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Has anyone ever heard about this manufacturer?

I took this picture in Kobe yesterday:

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8602/p1210156vj9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Has anyone ever heard about this manufacturer?

Mukogawa Syaryo is a liquidated company like ALNA. It was disbanded in 2002.

i want to know if i am a bad person for being in this thread or not?

because i know i don't have that much knowledge about Japan's Railways and such but i just want to know if its ok for me to continuing being in this thread or not? because i don't ask too much intelligent questions and so forth or as far as i know it i could be retarded somehow?

oh and if people want to know i am hispanic and i don't live in japan but would like the visit the country one day and also maybe explore the country as well and i want to thank you guys and girls for providing me the points and such about the different railways and such of japan.

does the japanese likes or hates hispanics in japan because i am hispanic and i am kind of worried if i do come into the country?

i want to know if i am a bad person for being in this thread or not?

because i know i don't have that much knowledge about Japan's Railways and such but i just want to know if its ok for me to continuing being in this thread or not? because i don't ask too much intelligent questions and so forth or as far as i know it i could be retarded somehow?

oh and if people want to know i am hispanic and i don't live in japan but would like the visit the country one day and also maybe explore the country as well and i want to thank you guys and girls for providing me the points and such about the different railways and such of japan.

does the japanese likes or hates hispanics in japan because i am hispanic and i am kind of worried if i do come into the country?


Hispanic isnt a race, there are white hispanics, blacks, mix, native etc. And no there is no problem with you posting here.

Anyways japan can tend to be xenophobic, but i doubt youll encounter anything if you visit japan.

what is Xenophobic and is it bad?

what is Xenophobic and is it bad?

Xenophobia is a fear of foreigners. It's bad, but not a big deal (well, unless its violent xenophobia, then it's a big problem)

TRZ i want to ask you something am i a bothersome to this thread because if i am, i am sorry, and i wish i can thank you all with a cake or something.

and thank you for the xenophobia thing so if i go to japan then they will be scaried of me?

are there hispanics in japan or is it very few?

oh man now i remember something oh boy all of you remember that Asia tunnel mega project i was thinking about right.

^^ hispanic or not doesnt matter, since hispanic is NOT a race. Your race matters as in are you a spaniard(white) hispanic, a black, a mix? etc. Most japanese dont know the difference of most westerners and languages so they wont even know that youre a spanish speaker, they will look at race. And in general race doesnt matter all that much, its just immigrants (of all races) vs citizens.

And BTW if you keep asking if youre annoying then it starts to get annoying..

i am sorry if i asked about that but thank you for telling me Hanshin-Tigress

so its not a race ok i understand now.

TRZ i want to ask you something else is Japan going to built more LRT lines, more metros or more AGT lines?

and which ones suit the cities better?

TRZ i want to ask you something else is Japan going to built more LRT lines, more metros or more AGT lines?

and which ones suit the cities better?

Depends on the region. In Tokyo, you'll probably never see LRT, but you probably will see more AGT.

LRT may appear in regions that can afford to give space to LRT. That's something that Tokyo can't do. If it were to try to do LRT, it would probably have to be underground or elevated anyway, that's why they are more likely to build subways or AGT.

The LRT project in Toyama is actually using an existing rail corridor that was no longer seeing service from JR West, so they didn't actually even have to create new space, just find a new use for abandoned infrastructure.

What may be interesting to watch for is if the battery-powered LRV finds any hosts in Japan, which I think it might in the Touhoku or Hokkaidou regions, particularly their suburban areas like greater Sapporo in the future. LRT copes with snow much better than AGT. Even better is that the battery-powered version requires very little overhead electrical supply, making snow build-up on power cables far less of a worry. Sapporo's subway is rubber-tired like AGT, and as such remains covered at all times, just like in Montreal where it is similar climate. This means that in the areas of Japan where it actually snows on a regular basis (Tokyo doesn't get much) LRT may find some suburban homes, but not in bigger cities.

and thank you for the xenophobia thing so if i go to japan then they will be scaried of me?

In urban Japan, no, but they may not talk to you simply because they don't know how to communicate (many Japanese are not comfortable in foreign languages, even if they know how to write in that language, they are still hesitant to speak in that same language). Tokyo is not very "international" in the true sense, except maybe the immediate Tokyo Station area and Hiroo area.

Rural Japan is a different story. Foreigners are rare there, so who knows what they'll do when they actually see one, it's like big-foot :lol:. Okay, I kid, that's an exaggeration, but don't be surprised if they seem surprised or curious to see a foreigner in rural necks of the country.

Songoten2554,
honestly I don't get your problem with "being allowed" on this thread :? What made you think that way?

the thing why i asked that question is because i am not japanese and nor am i living in japan you know i was afraid thats all.

and i am sorry if i did asked about it.

so the shinkansen was greatly needed in japan, if the shinkansen was expensive and still is to develop and built then whats the cheapest and the most expensive shinkansen to date to built and operate?

i want to ask another thing about the narrow gauge rail cars which is the fastest rail car for the narrow gauge and is it better then Standard and another thing why did japan used narrow gauge in the first place and not standard like most of the world Railways?

i want to ask another thing about the narrow gauge rail cars which is the fastest rail car for the narrow gauge and is it better then Standard and another thing why did japan used narrow gauge in the first place and not standard like most of the world Railways?

OK, this is a fun history lesson if you go into detail, but I'm only going to give the digest version ;)

Railways were introduced to Japan by the English, with the first line opening in Meiji Year 5 (or the year 1872), between Shiodome (near today's Shimbashi) and Yokohama (today's Sakuragichou). This line was built by the English pretty much, the Japanese had not been trained in the techniques yet. Since it was the English bringing the technology into Japan, and the English used narrow gauge themselves at that point in history, they used the same thing Japan (because there was no reason not to use it).

Railways became popular in Japan, and as the Japanese learned the skills needed from the English, private networks started to pop up in many places. The government was also building its own network (JNR). The government stuck to narrow gauge, but private companies would use various gauges, sometimes narrow gauge, sometimes tram gauge, sometimes something completely different. In 1907, the government passed a nationalization law that forced companies to conform to a common gauge. There were people within the government that wanted to make it standard gauge. This is 101 years ago, and already back then, they knew that standard gauge was superior. This included talks of modifying extensive networks from narrow gauge to standard gauge. The costs involved with that vision did not go over well at all, and they chose the more cost effective approach of going with narrow gauge as the national standard, despite its short-comings.

Exceptions would crop up from time to time such as the first subway line, which was built by the English, but by this time the English had switched to standard gauge, so the first subways got built with that too. Since the third-rail power supply was not a technique used in Japan prior, I believe it qualified as a separate technology not applicable to the railway nationalization law, but don't quote me on that. There are also some railways, like Keiou, that pre-date the nationalization law and so have a different gauge. The Shinkansen was of course an exception to the law because it was intended to be a "next-gen" system, so-to-speak.

Standard gauge allows higher performance though, definately better than narrow gauge, no contest.

so japan at the time was unaware that Railways have changed to Standard guage oh wow now i can see that japan pretty much isolated themselves to the rest of the world, the word xenophobia comes to play.

also the Shinkansen is the next gen Railway system that you say it is.

so japan at the time was unaware that Railways have changed to Standard guage oh wow now i can see that japan pretty much isolated themselves to the rest of the world, the word xenophobia comes to play.
NO! Japan was not unaware at all! It wasn't "railways" that had changed to standard gauge either, certain countries had changed to standard gauge. Railways do not evolve as a unified global entity, they can vary from region to region or even from operator to operator. Spain and Russia for example, use broad gauge, even today, and I believe parts of northern Africa do as well.

I think you misunderstood my post, you might want to read it again. Japan, over 100 years ago, already knew that narrow gauge was inferior to standard gauge, but converting the network that they had already built at narrow gauge in 1907, which was a pretty big network to make it very expensive to convert, wasn't worth the money, so they decided to work with what they had instead of spending a fortune to upgrade the network for little return on such an investment.

Railway gauge has nothing to do with xenophobia :ohno:

also the Shinkansen is the next gen Railway system that you say it is.

Not exactly. The thing with the Shinkansen is that it is a unique class of railway not seen elsewhere. Other HSR tends to share tracks with non-HSR infrastructure, like the TGV or the Eurostar, the Shinkansen doesn't do this except for Mini-Shinkansen lines, which are a separate class of railway to reflect their different dynamics.

Since Shinkansen is a unique class, it isn't necessarily a global next gen system. It's a high class system that offers great performance, but it isn't something that really caught on elsewhere, although there has been some exporting of the technology like the KTX. Much bigger strides in railway technology have been made on more urban fronts than intercity. LRT in a sense, has made more of a "next-gen" name for itself than the Shinkansen has, from a global perspective.

What will be interesting to see is how the Shinkansen and maglev technologies compete in the future. Since the Shinkansen has a dedicated network not shared with non-Shinkansen lines, unless they're mini-Shinkansen, it operates on infrastructure dedicated solely to it, and the maglev has the same requirement.

i also heard that Fastech 360 had a cartoon character a girl with cat ears because that rail car has a cat like ears for breaking, i seen some cartoon like characters like that from Railway cars and so forth is it popular in japan or does japan has a thing for cuteness?.
Here's the Fastech 360 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastech_360), and here's its catgirl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catgirl) mascot, Fastech-tan (http://www.meidokon.net/edit_tags.py?b9dfaee258014dacf3b6b4a204cb20a4242e606f).

Wikipedia has an article about cuteness in Japanese culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuteness_in_Japanese_culture).

oh thanks again TRZ so thats why then.

i want to know another thing which Shinkansen is the cheapest to build and which is the most expensive to build and operate?

and you said before that the continuing of the shinkansen building is due to the grandfather waivers the old law?

Yes, the Shinkansen Expansion Law has not been repealed (it should be though, it should have died when privatization occurred, as it is not an economically sound policy).

It is not a matter of where the Shinkansen will be built. Costs will vary based on location, but what is most important is how much money the line can make after it is up and running. If there are not enough people that are going to ride the Shinkansen to make it pay for itself, or at least mostly pay for itself, then it should probably not be built.

Lots of people badmouth the Hokkaidou Shinkasen project. I don't think these people realize the fact that Haneda-Chitose (Tokyo-Sapporo(Hokkaidou)) is the busiest domestic airline in the world. I support this project because there is already established ridership in the corridor that justifies airplanes running every 15 minutes. I'd rather have trains ripping up and down the corridor than jet fumes stuffing up the air. I expect the trains to be very popular since they will service not only the Tokyo-Sapporo traffic, but several locations in-between, perhaps most notably Sendai. A "nozomi"-like service going Tokyo-Ueno-Oomiya-Sendai-ShinOta-Sapporo?

i favor the shinkansen expansion law i don't think its a waste of money i think its for the better of the economy of japan.

after all France has not stopped their TGV expansions network but why japan should stop it it will suck if they do and i don't think they will plus Japan is the first country to have HSR why would they stop something so famous and so great like an HSR?

expansions of the shinkansen network is great because it provides more travel by the network and also the japanese can take advantage of how lucky they have a network of HSR while in the United states its very limited and we don't have any trains that run on Shinkansen like speed.

i favor the shinkansen expansion law i don't think its a waste of money i think its for the better of the economy of japan.The law itself doesn't cost money. It is the loss-making Shinkansen lines that the law forces the construction of that will be a waste of money.

Kyuushuu for example, doesn't need Shinkansen service. Shikoku doesn't need Shinkansen service. Hokuriku Shinkansen, I'm not sure, I'd argue that it should only be mini-Shinkansen, although some parts of that line are supposed to use discontinued freight routes, so they can do it for cheap(er).

The only ones that should be going forward are the Chuuou Shinkansen (what would the Japanese call the maglev line? Choukansen? ’´Š²�ü? Tokkansen? “ÁŠ²�ü) , and the Hokkaidou Line. Forget the Kyuushuu Shinkansen.

after all France has not stopped their TGV expansions network but why japan should stop it it will suck if they do and i don't think they will plus Japan is the first country to have HSR why would they stop something so famous and so great like an HSR?Geography changes everything, you are not thinking about the fact that France is not an island nation, Japan IS. No, you cannot build tunnels to mainland Asia.

expansions of the shinkansen network is great because it provides more travel by the network and also the japanese can take advantage of how lucky they have a network of HSR while in the United states its very limited and we don't have any trains that run on Shinkansen like speed.

It will be impossible to go from Sapporo in Hokkaidou to Fukuoka in northern Kyuushuu in one train because you will have to transfer between operators, unless they do enter an agreement, which is unlikely given the failure encountered between JR Kyuushuu, JR West, and JR Toukai to get from Kagoshima to Tokyo in one train. You will at the very least have to transfer at Tokyo Station no matter what. Even if an agreement is reached, a HIGHLY UNLIKELY scenario, a special model of rolling stock would be needed.

It is not as simple as just drawing lines on a map.

Particularly in Kyuushuu and Shikoku, the cities are not big enough in those parts of the country to justify Shinkansen, and it Hokuriku region is no ideal candidate either.

You can only build the lines to places where people are/go.

Rural Japan is a different story. Foreigners are rare there, so who knows what they'll do when they actually see one, it's like big-foot :lol:. Okay, I kid, that's an exaggeration, but don't be surprised if they seem surprised or curious to see a foreigner in rural necks of the country.

I travelled in the countryside much and didn't feel like a bigfoot ha ha. I think both in the countryside or in Tokyo, japanese don't care if you're a foreigner or not.

i know that geography changes everything because i know Japan is mountains and forests.

i favor for this expansion because its not a waste of money its a better source of transportation for the many people in japan if you want to go from Kagoshima to Tokyo all you have to do is transfer from one train of shinkansen to another at hakata and then if you get the super express route then you will get to tokyo.

i know you may disagree with that but still i find it odd on why would japan stop a famous and well loved HSR after all it gave the japanese an image to the rest of the world without it Japan would not have been the nation as it was today.

i wish we had this in the States really the japanese is lucky to have the shinkansen even the California High Speed Rail project is expensive but it will be well worth the investment and time yes the japanese are extermianly lucky they have a network like the shinkansen and the regular JR network.

TRZ i respect your opinion but i favor for the expansion even though now the network is privatised its good that its continuing you may disagree with me about that but for the thousands and millions of japanese people.

also if you remember about the asiatunnel mega project i was attempting to do and such

the reason why i wanted to make the Asia tunnel was because i wanted Japan to be connected with the rest of the world so it will allow better trade, business and also leaisure travel as well.

for that project i was inspired by the Channel Tunnel Rail Link project now completed and opened in England to make this project and when i saw it with the Shinkansen since both the Eurostar and the Shinkansen are HSR networks i saw potential within them.

also the tunnel was going to follow the same model as the Channel Tunnel in that it will cross the waters between Japan and South Korea and South Korea to china.

also Frieght was going to use the tunnel as well but in order for the tunnel not to be in a gridlock i decided that a four tunnel side will be better.

Kyuushuu for example, doesn't need Shinkansen service.

Mmmm don't you think the Kitakyushu-Fukuoka-Kumamoto-Kagoshima axis is enough for a high-speed line?

and thats why its being built because its an Shinkansen line.

anyways i don't know what to say but well has construction started on the international Terminal for Hanada Airport yet?

i also heard about the Tsukaba line this is a regional Rail line right i heard it was called new Joban line? does it go really fast and is it reliable?

Mmmm don't you think the Kitakyushu-Fukuoka-Kumamoto-Kagoshima axis is enough for a high-speed line?

Well, Kitakyuushuu and Fukuoka already have the San'you line ;)

Kumamoto, yes, but Kagoshima? No way, not enough people either in Kagoshima nor between Kagoshima and Kumamoto. A Kumamoto extension should have to go via Kurume 久留米 and Saga 佐賀 to be economically sound.

http://www.qtopianet.com/fureai/koubou/webkoub/table/jinkou95.htm

While the population of Kagoshima Prefecture is reasonable, a look at the geographic shape of the prefecture vs. Kumomoto Prefecture and the urban scale of their respective cities of the same name shows a pretty bleak competitive picture for Kagoshima.

and thats why its being built because its an Shinkansen line.


You can't say "and that's why" without even stating the reason.:ohno: Vapour didn't give a reason but challenged an alignment. There's a difference.

i know that geography changes everything because i know Japan is mountains and forests.You don't get it. I specifically point out the island nation geographic condition, and then you go off on mountains and forests. :nuts:

i favor for this expansion because its not a waste of money its a better source of transportation for the many people in japan if you want to go from Kagoshima to Tokyo all you have to do is transfer from one train of shinkansen to another at hakata and then if you get the super express route then you will get to tokyo.Do you know where Kagoshima is? Do you know what the population density is in southern Kyuushuu? Have you even looked at Google Maps (satelite view) to get an idea of the built form in Kyuushuu or other parts of the country, or even to compare it to Europe? I think it would help you understand things a lot (Google Maps is totally awesome resource, I can explore for hours with that thing).

You are not basing the claim of "it is not a waste of money" on anything but your own opinion. People are not evenly distributed across Japan, some places have lots of people, other places don't. There really are not many people that would travel to Tokyo from Kagoshima by train (and, unlike Tokyo-Osaka, airlines would still probably hold the advantage for Tokyo-Kagoshima anyway). It's neither economical nor competitive with domestic air travel.

i know you may disagree with that but still i find it odd on why would japan stop a famous and well loved HSR after all it gave the japanese an image to the rest of the world without it Japan would not have been the nation as it was today.
Now you're proposing that it has to keep on being expanded in order to stay alive? That's a bizarre argument. The Shinkansen is an established network with established ridership along most routes. This ridership is not going to disappear just because expansion doesn't happen, and so you would not "stop" HSR in Japan from not extending it. You have to remember that NOT extending it to the WRONG places is just as important to the health of the network as giving the OK to extensions to the RIGHT places. You are not basing your support on any facts. I support the Hokkaidou one because of the established ridership on airlines in the corridor.

TRZ i respect your opinion but i favor for the expansion even though now the network is privatised its good that its continuing you may disagree with me about that but for the thousands and millions of japanese people.There would only be about 2 million people tops that would benefit from a Kyuushuu Shinkansen, that's best case, and you can still achieve most of that by just going to Kumamoto instead of all the way to Kagoshima, which is three times as far from Fukuoka as Kumamoto is. Are you starting to see how the costs don't add up?

the reason why i wanted to make the Asia tunnel was because i wanted Japan to be connected with the rest of the world so it will allow better trade, business and also leaisure travel as well.But it isn't competitive with the aircraft.

for that project i was inspired by the Channel Tunnel Rail Link project now completed and opened in England to make this project and when i saw it with the Shinkansen since both the Eurostar and the Shinkansen are HSR networks i saw potential within them.But Eurostar is an economic failure.

also the tunnel was going to follow the same model as the Channel Tunnel in that it will cross the waters between Japan and South Korea and South Korea to china.Both politics and economics makes this impossible. China and North Korea are governments you do not want to get involved with, and China is actually bad for business since government regulates things way too much there (economics there are good though, so people make sacrifices to do business there anyway). North Korea is a black hole. You should know this, you are American, American-North Korean relations are pretty crappy these days. China is considered a rising threat.

also Frieght was going to use the tunnel as well but in order for the tunnel not to be in a gridlock i decided that a four tunnel side will be better.
Cannot compete with sea freight. Besides, traffic would be so low that you wouldn't need to segregate freight and passenger traffic in such a tunnel anyway, unless it were competitive with the aircraft, which HSR isn't, only maglev would be.

so your saying TRZ that the Asia Rail Tunnel will not be possible or built?

i didn't know Eurostar is a failure they finished the CTRL project i guess i don't know if its a failure or not?

i am sorry TRZ and i am sorry i misjudged your opinion.

also i heard about groping on the trains oh man is this just japan or elsewhere in the world suffers from this i always respect a lady and won't touch her because that will be disrespectful does this happen often? i like the ladies but still you know you have to respect the ladies but why does this problem happens?

so your saying TRZ that the Asia Rail Tunnel will not be possible or built?

That is exactly what I am saying.



About the Kyuushuu Shinkansen btw, the reason why I am not supportive of it, is that even some of the larger cities of Kyuushuu, the areas are HIGHLY agricultural, rather than actually urban, except for Fukuoka Prefecture, which has by far the highest density. Even Kumamoto City is heavily farmland.

I believe Kyushu Shinkansen (Kagoshima Route) is one of the most promising (or least disastrous) route among the Seibi (Planned) Shinkansen lines. It's true the section between Kumamoto City and Kagoshima City has less population compared with Fukuoka-Kumamoto, but the former section is relatively short (150 km) and Kagoshima City still has 728,000 metropolitan population.
This is not so bad figure, compared with, say, Hokkaido Shinkansen, which is 360 km long with practically zero population except of Sapporo (2.21 million met. pop.).

As a matter of fact, the current Kyushu Shinkansen, the section between Shin-Yatsushiro and Kagoshima-Chuo, is already proved to be profitable with 3.44 million (http://www.373news.com/modules/pickup/index.php?storyid=9731) riders per year. The current section is supposedly the least populous section of the route, so it is very unlikely the line will have worse situation in future, when the extension to more populous section is complete.

I have to admit, however, that the line can be considered "profitable" only if you ignore the initial construction cost of the section, 640 billion JPY (6.4 billion USD) between Shin-Yatsushiro and Kagoshima-Chuo. But I repeat, the current figure is one of the best among newly made Shinkansen lines.

Among the Seibi Shinkansen lines, I'd say Chuo Shinkansen is absolutely needed, Kyushu Shinkansen (Kagoshima Route) is promised to be profitable (Well, it already is), and Hokkaido Shinkansen (+Tohoku Shinkansen between Hachinohe-Aomori) is fairly likely to be profitable. Hokuriku Shinkansen is okay, but only between (Tokyo,) Takasaki and Kanazawa. All the other routes, such as Kyushu Shinkansen (Nagasaki Route) are unneeded.

^^ I love your avatar. I did the exact same thing with Toronto's transit logo.

Interesting about the Kyuushuu line... I stand corrected, and am indeed surprised.

It's true the section between Kumamoto City and Kagoshima City has less population compared with Fukuoka-Kumamoto, but the former section is relatively short (150 km) and Kagoshima City still has 728,000 metropolitan population.
This is not so bad figure, compared with, say, Hokkaido Shinkansen, which is 360 km long with practically zero population except of Sapporo (2.21 million met. pop.).


Ah, but look at potential passengers per kilometre;
Kyuushuu; 728,000/150 = 4853
Hokkaidou; 2,210,000/360 = 6139

So the Hokkaidou Line should have higher potential performance... which can safely be projected to be quite high given the congested air traffic in Haneda-Chitose.

i agree the Kyunshu Shinkansen is good, the Chuo is needed the Hokkaido is needed because of the air traffic it has, and also the Hokuriku shinkansen is well needed to a certain amount of places.

i didn't know that it was a failure i didn't know Eurostar is failing i thought with the CTRL it was to succeed i thought that with the High Speed 1 project that it will be better then ever.

also i heard about groping on the trains oh man is this just japan or elsewhere in the world suffers from this i always respect a lady and won't touch her because that will be disrespectful does this happen often? i like the ladies but still you know you have to respect the ladies but why does this problem happens?

can anyone awnser this question please and about Eurostar as well?

also i heard about groping on the trains oh man is this just japan or elsewhere in the world suffers from this i always respect a lady and won't touch her because that will be disrespectful does this happen often? i like the ladies but still you know you have to respect the ladies but why does this problem happens?

This is complicated to explain. There's some angles in the culture that backfire in a sense. Lots of theories are around on the psychological aspects of this. They get away with it a lot because of the cultural fear of conflict. Anytime when foreigners get involved with this kind of thing, usually the offender gets the shit kicked out him, I've heard plenty of stories where, say, a Chinese-American girl is mistaken for a Japanese by a pervert... oh, and she's a black-belt :lol:. However, if it is a Japanese girl getting assaulted, it is likely to go unreported. If it is only other Japanese in the train, they are unlikely to intervene for the sake of avoiding conflict, although this mindset certainly seems to be changing among younger Japanese men that are considerably less conservative than their fathers.

Once the Japanese eventually grow out of their passive attitude towards the problem, more perverts are either going to get thrown to the cops or get the crap kicked out of them (based on the stories I've heard, nobody, cops included, cares about a pervert getting beaten to a pulp).

If it is only other Japanese in the train, they are unlikely to intervene for the sake of avoiding conflict, although this mindset certainly seems to be changing among younger Japanese men that are considerably less conservative than their fathers.
There's a supposedly true story (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Densha_Otoko) about an otaku who confronts a man harrassing women on a train:
Densha Otoko (電車男, Densha Otoko? translated as Train Man) is a Japanese movie, television series, manga, novel, and other media, all based on the purportedly true story of a 23-year-old otaku (Japanese geek) who intervened when a drunk man was harassing several women on a train. The otaku ultimately begins dating one of the women.

The event, and the man's subsequent dates with the woman, who became known as "Hermès" (エルメス, Erumesu?), was chronicled on the Japanese mega-BBS 2channel. This led to the compilation of the relevant threads in a book, followed by several manga versions, a movie, a theatrical play later released as a DVD, and finally a TV series.

Although groping is a reality that plagues Japanese commuter trains there are also many accidental through overreaction and/or even false cases leading to blackmailing these days.
I should know I witnessed one just the other day where a poor man who overslept his stop tried to get off in a hurry and accidentally brushed a female's behind.
The lady grabbed the man's hand and screamed "CHIKAN(gropper)"
Since I saw the whole incident I stepped in and tried to mediate the situation. The lady will not listen and all three of us went to the station master's office where we were detained a total of three to four hours for questioning by the police.
The incident occured around eleven and I got home sometime around three in the morning. :ohno:

we need men-only cars seriously.


http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/8886/poormenqo8.png

we need men-only cars seriously.


While I agree that the 女性専用車 is a flawed concept as far as space-efficiency is concerned, and that teaching all women on trains how to kick ass is a far better solution, 男性専用車 would hardly solve anything :lol: (every car that isn't 女性専用車 is by default 男性専用車, isn't it?)

every car that isn't 女性専用車 is by default 男性専用車, isn't it?

no. I see some women in 通常車両 every morning.

no. I see some women in 通常車両 every morning.

Yeah, but the point is to check the %. What is the percentage of women to men in the 通常車両? Men make up the majority easily, so even if they were 男性専用 instead of just 通常, it wouldn't make a noticeable difference.

I also noted once by accident that women moved away from me when I sat in the train with my hands holding my umbrella between me and my bag. In other words they couldn't see my hands and what I was doing with them, nothing of course because I'm not that kind of pervert. But it did surprise me, although I have seen the pictures randomly posted on 2ch so I figured out it was me they were afraid of.

we need men-only cars seriously.

poor men and arrogant bitches...
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/8886/poormenqo8.png

arrogant bitches? Ok first of all i am a girl, and took trains to and from school everyday in osaka, and i was groped by old perverted men LITERALLY once every 2 weeks (sometimes even more, and if you consider a guy standing behind me pushing up on me groping then everyweek). Its a shame osaka doesnt have a developed womens only trains like tokyo yet. I dont see how i am an arrogant bitch for not wanting to have some guy feeling my ass when im taking the train so thanks..

Why do you think they made women only trains? Because its a PROBLEM, so if you want to blame someone blame members of your sex that cant keep their hands to themselves and sexually assault/disrespect women.

痴漢されたい女性のみ電車、どう？　　:lol:

Why do you think they made women only trains? Because its a PROBLEM, so if you want to blame someone blame members of your sex that cant keep their hands to themselves and sexually assault/disrespect women.

While it is relatively rare, I've noticed women doing it to men, too... more than once (yes, I know first-hand). They don't go for the tender spots, but they are evidently deliberately touching (even when it isn't ram-packed but still relatively crowded).

Then there's the women who seem to deliberately fall asleep on me when both of us are seated next to one-another, those ones are less rare.

Both are wrong, really.

^^ i read your other post, no need to repeat yourself twice. I dont see the point of your post other then to defend that guy calling me and other girls arrogant bitches. I guess because 1 girl (and you even said not the tender spots, thats not groping then) for probably every 100 guys that touch girls its perfectly acceptable and we are arrogant bitches for having women only trains. Ridiculous :ohno:

we need men-only cars seriously.


http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/8886/poormenqo8.png

Utamaro, I edited your message. Don't post that kind of comments again, please.

あのうさ、何でこんなこと話してるか。　英語のことわざの通り、もう死んだ馬をぶっ殺してる。

^^ i read your other post, no need to repeat yourself twice. I dont see the point of your post other then to defend that guy calling me and other girls arrogant bitches. I guess because 1 girl (and you even said not the tender spots, thats not groping then) for probably every 100 guys that touch girls its perfectly acceptable and we are arrogant bitches for having women only trains. Ridiculous :ohno:

I defended neither, I said both were wrong.
I wasn't repeating myself either, the two posts were completely different arguments.

あのうさ、何でこんなこと話してるか。　英語のことわざの通り、もう死んだ馬をぶっ殺してる。

こちらは同意ですよ。ハイジャックされちゃってる。

I'll post it in English later.


この先は目黒線の武蔵小杉～元住吉区間の延長工事写真・説明を記載します。

写真が大きく、ページフォーマットを壊さないように、リンクとしますね。

まずは元住吉駅高架後改札前新設自由通路（改札機がカメラの後存在） (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/3fed64a8.jpg)

工事期間前の元住吉駅の線路がまだまだ残ってる。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/8ea38f16.jpg)この線路は車両基地アクセスなので、解体は行いません。それに、工事期間内、車両基地のアクセスが安全に使用可の状態としなければならなかったね。

これが元住吉の車両基地東区間です。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/ed754c7b.jpg)西区間が東横・目黒線の反対側存在です。西区間が東区間より大体二倍大きい。この車両基地が東横線のメインで、目黒線のサブ（目黒線のメインは奥沢駅隣で存在が、奥沢では車両点検センタ等の施設が無く、車庫のみとして使用可です。

元の元住吉駅が工事用のスペースとする。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/4e8655ce.jpg)前は東横線の通過待ち駅として使用されて、目黒線とシェアーする事したら、高架無しと、通過待ちが不可能になっちゃう訳、新設の高架元住吉駅では線路６通存在。島式ホームが二つ、そして両側の外側に通過専用線路（ホーム無し）が存在。

この線路が高架前の東横線です。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/34e72289.jpg)高架線の工事中期間内使用されました。ただいま工事車用の線路だと思います。隣の線路（安全ネットの反対側に）は鉄道式バックホゥを見えます。

詳しくないんですが、今道路なのに、高架工事期間内ここが東横線だったと思います。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/117ce50c.jpg)レール位置がまだ見られます。この写真は元住吉方面に見て、元線路は元町中華街行きの電車用でした。

これが、東横線高架支持標準構成です。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/7a4124f2.jpg)写真は目黒線延長専用踏切前から撮りましたから、標準パターンのブレーキになっちゃいます。

先々写真の反対方面、武蔵小杉へ見てる元線路です。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/d26a9e5f.jpg)今道路となっていますが、この道路から何もアクセスできません（フェンスしか無い）ので、前は鉄道だと理解できます。

元住吉駅前の目黒線延長専用勾配起点です。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/da7fd1cf.jpg)武蔵小杉までに東横線は目黒線直上高架線となります。元住吉駅及び元住吉～日吉区間は東横線と一緒高架線となります。

前の写真と同じ勾配です。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/4bdd71f8.jpg)分枝機は目黒線と車両基地支線を分けています。

前の写真と同じ踏切から、武蔵小杉方面、東横線直下区間の目黒線。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/e704dee1.jpg)

レベル一緒～重なり状態の間の構成です。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/1-1.jpg)この箇所で溝を超え通してる。

前と同じ、立場が違う。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/2-1.jpg)

武蔵小杉に近い歩行者トンネルです。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/9ecd664f.jpg)この辺で目黒線がまだ勾配中。

武蔵小杉からの勾配擁壁内の柱です。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/c9ffb5d2.jpg)

台風・大雨時に線路が大水状況を遭っちゃわないように、擁壁の排水施設です。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/bc42d6fa.jpg)

地震時に線路が壊されないようの目地です。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/74425e30.jpg)大きな目地が収縮目地として振動の対策処理が有り、小さな目地が化粧目地のみです。

さああああああああ、観光ショット！:D :lol:
僕が武蔵小杉駅に近くで、付近に比べたらなんか高いビルの屋上へ登れて、撮りました。
これが川崎（あるいは鶴見）方面（だと思う）。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/8414d0f0.jpg)東横線を辛うじて見えます（右側）。

パノラマとして続こう！ (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/1.jpg)

続こう！ (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/2.jpg)

又！ (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/3.jpg)

そして、武蔵小杉駅までに参りました。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/4.jpg)

武蔵小杉の再開発高層ビルが最近工事完了されました。 (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/6d1277fe.jpg)（でも横須賀線・湘南新宿ライン用の武蔵小杉駅がまだ工事中）

i understand now but still i respect a lady and Hanshin-Tigress i respect you too.

it must be sad to see that your trying to take a train yet those men are trying to touch you in the wrong places.

i was always taught to respect a lady and never to touch her not even in the wrong places.

even though women are very beautiful i am taught with to respect women

oh man so it is a problem after all then i hope that Osaka and other japanese cities start introducing the all women's car that way these problems will diminish.

oh right i forgot about something its almost the opening of the new Tokyo Subway line its almost june 2008 its very close oh man.

so how is everything going with the maglev shinkansen or the Chuo Shinkansen is everything starting to get it together i also have heard of a functional maglev line in japan that is not high speed but like a metro line?

also i want to say this but happy mother's day and well hopefully all of you have spent time with your parents or communicate with them as well.

oh man so it is a problem after all then i hope that Osaka and other japanese cities start introducing the all women's car that way these problems will diminish.This is the mindset that just shows how people are totally uninterested in actually dealing with the problem.

Women-only cars don't solve the problem, they only provide a hiding spot from it!

Hiding from the problem will not have the problem subside at all, because you don't deal with the problem at the source. Right now, they're not only making the situation worse, but they are not making the perverts know that they are in the wrong, while the situation is made worse by women thinkng that it is "normal" to hide from the male gender and foster the notion that all men in crowded places are bad nasty perverts. What kind of a society is that?! The women-only cars are not a solution at all, they're just a band-aid.

They need to teach women to fight back, large scale. If there's a 50% or greater chance that the pervert is going to get their ass kicked, then, and only then, with you actually starting dealing with the problem at its source, because you actually make the pervert suffer consequences - the pervert suffers no consequences at all with the women-only cars, the perverts effectively get off scott free on that system, and their mindset doesn't change, they'll do it again at their next available opportunity. They will not take the next opportunity if they are likely to get hurt.

It will of course take some time for women to learn how to kick ass, and AS A TEMPORARY, INTERIM MEASURE, women-only cars are fine, BUT NOT AS A LONG-TERM SOLUTION, it will only make the divide more permanent and make society less trusting in general. It is ALL a downhill slope with the women-only cars.

Problems do not get solved when you try to hide from it!


also have heard of a functional maglev line in japan that is not high speed but like a metro line?Linimo! :) This is where the real future of the technology is at, based on what I've read. This is by far more financially and environmentally sustainable than the high-speed applications. http://www.linimo.jp

そう、やっぱり男性だねという態度で何も解決できないですね。　そして男性・女性を分けると、痴漢問題を隠すばかりです。　だから、どうすんだ。　痴漢問題の原因は何かという質問に取り組むしかないね。それで、変体改造計画、開始！

これは以前の日本語の記載の翻訳しかないのです。

Here are photos and explanations of the Meguro Line Extension between Musashi-Kosugi and Moto-Sumiyoshi.

The photos are big, so I'm liking them to avoid messing up the page format.

First off, the rebuilt elevated Moto-Sumiyoshi Station pedestrian passage just outside the faregate (faregate is directly behind camera) (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/3fed64a8.jpg)

Tracks remain from the old Moto-Sumiyoshi Station before construction of the new one. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/8ea38f16.jpg) These tracks are still used to access the yard, so they will not be decomissioned. Furthermore, during construction this access needed to be maintained in a safely usable condition for non-revenue trains.

This is the eastern section of the Moto-Sumiyoshi Yard. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/ed754c7b.jpg) The western section is on the other side of the Touyoko/Meguro tracks and is about twice the size of the eastern section. This yard is the main yard for the Touyoko Line and is a sub-yard for the Meguro Line (the Meguro Line's main yard is by Okusawa, but that yard has no car inspection facilities and such, it is only used for storing the trains not in service).

Old Moto-Sumiyoshi station is used for construction space. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/4e8655ce.jpg) Before the change, this station was used as a passing station for the Touyoko Line (express trains don't stop here, local service only), but if it shares this space with the Meguro Line, without elevating the station, it loses its ability to function as a point where express trains can pass local trains, so the new elevated Moto-Sumiyoshi station has 6 tracks. The station is a twin island format and has passing tracks on the outer side on both sides (no platforms can access the passing tracks).


---<=============>------Touyoko
.......|||||||||||||||............
=======================Meguro (double-track)
.......|||||||||||||||............
---<==============>------Touyoko

This track was used by the Touyoko Line before this section was elevated. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/34e72289.jpg) I think it used only for construction purposes and non-revenue trains right now. You can see a railway-style backhoe on the next track (oppside side of the safety netting).

I'm not positive, but although this is a road now, I believe this was previously used by the Touyoko Line. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/117ce50c.jpg) The placement of the rails can still be seen This photo is looking towards Moto-Sumiyoshi, and the track would have been used by trains bound for Motomachi-Chuukagai.


This is a typical detail of the elevated Touyoko Line support assembly. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/7a4124f2.jpg) This picture is taking in front of an at-grade crossing for the Meguro Line extension, so there's a break in the typical pattern at the crossing.

Taken from the same place as 2 photos back but looking in the opposite direction towards Musashi-Kosugi. This used to be Touyoko Line track space. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/d26a9e5f.jpg) Now it is a road, but this road doesn't access anything along it (nothing but fence), so you can tell it was a railway before.

Start of the slope of the Meguro Line extension in front of Moto-Sumiyoshi station. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/da7fd1cf.jpg) From here to Musashi-Kosugi, the Touyoko Line runs directly above the new Meguro Line extension. At Moto-Sumiyoshi station and from there to Hiyoshi, the Touyoko Line and Meguro Line travel together as a 4-track elevated alignment.

Same slope as the last picture. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/4bdd71f8.jpg) The junction splits the Meguro Line Extension from the branches to access the yards.

Shot from the same crossing as the previous photo, looking towards Musashi-Kosugi, the Meguro Line running directly underneath the Touyoko Line (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/e704dee1.jpg)

Assembly of the transition between running at the same level and running one atop the other. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/1-1.jpg) It crosses a ditch/tiny river here.

Same as before, different angle. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/2-1.jpg)

A pedestrian tunnel near Musashi-Kosugi station. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/9ecd664f.jpg) The Meguro Line is in mid-slope around this area.

A column support in the retaining wall supporting the slope down of the Meguro Line from Musashi-Kosugi. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/c9ffb5d2.jpg)

Drainage system for preventing flooding in the track structure during typhoons or heavy rain. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/bc42d6fa.jpg)

Joints in the retaining wall to keep the track structure from being damaged in an earthquake. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/74425e30.jpg) The big ones are expansion joints, which function as a countermeasure to vibration and shaking, while the smaller joints are just cosmetic.

And noooooooow, sightseeing shots! :D :lol:
I climbed to the roof of a comparatively tall-ish building near Musashi-Kosugi and snapped some photos from there.
This one looks towards Kawasaki (or Tsurumi)... I think. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/8414d0f0.jpg) You can just barely see the Touyoko Line (on the right side).

Continuing panoramic style! (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/1.jpg)

Again! (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/2.jpg]More![/URL]

[URL="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/3.jpg)

And then we arrive at Musashi-Kosugi station. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/4.jpg)

The Musashi-Kosugi Redevelopment High-Rises recently finished construction. (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/6d1277fe.jpg) But the new Musashi-Kosugi station for the Yokosuka Line and Shounan-Shinjuku Line is still under construction.

great photos TRZ about that Railway line it seems cool that there elevating it i want to know something is that the same way there doing to the Chuo Line as well?

because i have heard of the Chuo line Grade Seperation project but i wonder if there is any pictures or videos of the construction going on by there? is it going to be similar to other projects like for the Meguro Line Extension? or the LIRR Third Track Main line project which includes Grade Seperation and Caltrain's Electrification project which includes Grade Seperation also for the CHSR project as well?

the Asiatunnel project was also that was for Frieght and passengers because i saw a potential on JR Freight and it can have international commerince and so forth while the tunnels can be also used for Passenger Rail Travel like an International Shinkansen based on the look of the JR West 500 Series my favorite Shinkansen Rail car and also the profromnce and Tilting mechanism of the N700.

but it seems to be that it will never happen and it was grounded to today's technology not futuristic or anything i was making it more real this entire Scale Project i dreamed off was inspired by the Channel tunnel and Eurostar and also the Eurotunnel company and i looked at it and saw potenital espically the CTRL High Speed one project in england, as for JR Frieght i don't think its a joke if it was a joke they wouldn't exist as a company anymore plus the benefits that Rail frieght bring is alot its very energy efficent, cost effective its cheaper to run on Tracks and so forth so JR Frieght is not that bad and with the Asiatunnel project i was trying to raise its role higher but also at the same time elevated the passenger rail travel as well and this means the international Rail Travel like the Eurostar.

how is the Eurostar a failure after the CTRL project it got alot better now how does it Fail TRZ because it see it much successful now that they go fast even in england and also there is a station where the olympic area will be in london and also there is a new station in Ebbsifleet Station which is the ultimate international park and Ride station in England, how is that a failure TRZ?

I defended neither, I said both were wrong.
I wasn't repeating myself either, the two posts were completely different arguments.

何言ってんだよ？
そんな事言っちゃだめよ。
"They don't go for the tender spots"
then its not the same
それ言い訳じゃない！

何言ってんだよ？
そんな事言っちゃだめよ。
"They don't go for the tender spots"
then its not the same
それ言い訳じゃない！

Two-way street Tigress, it's a two-way street. Women can't try to feel up men just like men can't try to feel up women. Just because men don't have breasts doesn't mean women are allowed to do what men aren't, and that's the point.

ばか言わないでよ！
trz most of the groping is underneat, unless girls are grabbing the guys #&$^ then its not the same, and dont compare it thanks (youre talking about breasts, when probably 10% of the groping that happened to me was on the breast) What you said is not groping maybe you should learn what that means.

I like how youre seriously comparing something extremely rarer, and not even in the "tender" spots, to what happens to thousands of japanese women. If it was as bad for men then they would make men only trains. (you're comparing my bad experiences of stalkers and chikan to something not even close).

And BTW this topic is very important to me since i had to deal with this for years, and i had a few stalker guys over the past years.

no more。それについて話したくない。

ばか言わないでよ！
trz most of the groping is underneat, unless girls are grabbing the guys #&$^ then its not the same, and dont compare it thanks (youre talking about breasts, when probably 10% of the groping that happened to me was on the breast) What you said is not groping maybe you should learn what that means.
Well, I think you'd benefit from your own advice, so I've taken the courtesy of checking it for you;
grope
verb, groped, grop·ing, noun

6. Slang. an act or instance of sexually fondling another person.

You can't fondle a crotch. Groping has always meant grabbing breasts, or sometimes ass-grabbing, but never for trying to get at some woman's crotch. There's no other term for that but sexual assault.

I like how youre seriously comparing something extremely rarer, and not even in the "tender" spots, to what happens to thousands of japanese women. If it was as bad for men then they would make men only trains. Just like last time, youre saying retarded things, so im just going to put you on ignore this time, until you learn what respect is (you're comparing my bad experiences of stalkers and chikan to something not even close).

The only reason it isn't "tender" is because guys don't have breasts! The location is otherwise the same, and it isn't excusable for women just because of that. It may not be as offensive, but it is still inappropriate, and most notably is that it's incredibly hypocritical of women to be doing that at all. How rare it is doesn't excuse it either. Both are wrong. Don't know what "last time" you're referring to unless that time where you couldn't see a joke for what it was in an obvious context, you were wrong then, and you're wrong again now if your argument is that it is fine for women to do it, which is what it sounds like.

If you've encountered men grabbing your crotch on a train bi-weekly, that's pretty shocking, and it is sexual assault (although groping counts as sexual assault, too, just different locations).

All the same, women-only cars will not solve the problem. Women fighting back, delivering instant consequences of pain to perverts, will solve the problem.

^^ ignored, groping in trains is almost always grabbing the girls behind or touching her legs, and front and breasts is less common. The number one thing that happens is they stand behind you and pushes on you. Also, when you unlock your bike, they come behind and grope. And you compare that to women touching a mans chest (which happens at a ratio of like 1 to 100 probably)? Pathetic. I should have put you on ignore the first time you were saying ridiculous crap, youre a joke. Youre telling me like youre some kind of expert when its happened to me for years.

the clinical term frotteurism (groping) refers to a specific paraphilia which involves the non-consensual rubbing against another person to achieve sexual arousal. The contact is usually with the hands or the genitals and may involve touching any part of the body including the genital area.

And you cant fondle that area? :lol: You can fondle that area in both sexes what world are you from?
Fondle
1. to handle or touch lovingly, affectionately, or tenderly; caress

Groping in crowded commuter trains has been a problem in Japan; according to a survey conducted by Tokyo Metropolitan Police and East Japan Railway Company, two-thirds of female riders in their twenties and thirties reported that they had been groped on trains, and the majority had been victimized frequently. Authorities have been unable to control the chikan activities, as trains are too crowded to identify the perpetrators, courts have traditionally been lenient, and victims are too often ashamed to come forward. The police and railway companies responded with poster campaigns to raise awareness and tougher sentences, but have been unable to reverse the trend. In 2004, the Tokyo police reported a three-times increase in reported cases of groping on public transportation over eight years.

Women-only cars have received positive reaction from men and women. Women cited safety from gropers, Men cited not having to worry about false accusation of being a chikan.
Maybe you should go back to Canada instead of lecturing japanese girls on chikan, especially when its happened to me for years a couple of times a month, thank god for women only trains.

Hanshin-Tigress: thats why i never want to touch a woman because its disrespectful its surprising i never knew i could meet a woman here?

so wait there are women on this site too? i did know about that honestly?

i know i understand i wish that this sexual harrssement thing has to stop honestly its like setting a bad image to japan where if your a girl be prepared to be touched and probably even worse raped on a train or in a alley.

even though i will tell you guys and girls this i never had a girlfriend and i am still a virgin but i think the woman only cars could put a stop to this but remember there are still perverts and all that around.

also man they got to stop with the suicides issue on the Chuo line there why does it happen there why won't they put Platform barriers there as well it will make things better you know.

Hanshin-Tigress: thats why i never want to touch a woman because its disrespectful its surprising i never knew i could meet a woman here?

so wait there are women on this site too? i did know about that honestly?

i know i understand i wish that this sexual harrssement thing has to stop honestly its like setting a bad image to japan where if your a girl be prepared to be touched and probably even worse raped on a train or in a alley.

even though i will tell you guys and girls this i never had a girlfriend and i am still a virgin but i think the woman only cars could put a stop to this but remember there are still perverts and all that around.

also man they got to stop with the suicides issue on the Chuo line there why does it happen there why won't they put Platform barriers there as well it will make things better you know.

Yeah, but the point is to check the %. What is the percentage of women to men in the 通常車両? Men make up the majority easily, so even if they were 男性専用 instead of just 通常, it wouldn't make a noticeable difference.
I don't know the percentage, but it's not that low in Chuo, Sobu, Yamanote. I know nothing about other lines though.

男性専用車 would hardly solve anything :lol:
yes it may not solve all the problems. but,,,

「男性車両作って！」痴漢冤罪にサラリーマン悲鳴

大阪市営地下鉄で男性会社員が痴漢にでっち上げられた事件後、「男性専用車両を導入してほしい」という申し入れが市交通局に相次いでいることが２１日、わかった。
「痴漢に間違えられたくはない…」。同様の要望は事件前から鉄道各社にも寄せられていたという。在阪の近鉄、阪急、南海、京阪、阪神の私鉄大手５社も「要望が多数寄せられれば、（男性専用車両の導入を）検討する可能性がある」と前向きな姿勢を見せている。
http://www.zakzak.co.jp/top/2008_03/t2008032120_all.html

It's just a matter of whether we get more raping or groping/chikan.... In most countries, we get more raping than chikan while in Japan it's the other way around.

In an ideal world, neither of them occur but we live in reality...
Maybe in 2040, we may genetically engineer ourselves and deprive men of sexual appetite so that there will be no raping or chikan anymore and this doesn't sound like a bad idea to be honest. It will also put an end to pornography/pedophilia/human trafficking.

まあ、多分アメリカでの強姦件数とか痴漢件数は日本よりワリアイ多いと僕は思います。　そうでないでしょうか。　日本は凄く安全な国ですよ

^^ ignored, i said nothing about crotch, Yes, you did, you said "most of the groping is underneat, unless girls are grabbing the guys #&$^ then its not the same." So, busted. You can't fib your way out of posts you've already been quoted on.

And you compare that to women touching a mans chest (which happens at a ratio of like 1 to 100 probably)? Pathetic. I should have put you on ignore the first time you were saying ridiculous crap, youre a joke. Youre telling me like youre some kind of expert when its happened to me for years.Not just the chest, but they do it like they're feelin ya up, or a reach-around of sorts, they're definately not doing this by accident at any rate. And yeah, I know, they've tried it on me. At first I think it's an accident, but then when it keeps on happening, yeah, one starts to clue in. Nothing pathetic about it, except your notion that one sex is allowed to do it while the other isn't. That's pathetic. You can call it a joke if you want, but the hypocrisy is horsecrap. You're entitled to your opinion, but nobody is going to agree with you on your idea that women can harass men if they want while men should be demonized and arrested. BOTH should be demonized and arrested, I don't care what body parts you got or what kind of clothes you wear.

Since you're this big expert on the situation, answer this one; why don't you fight back? Given your French influence, you should be less passive about it than someone who's only got Japanese blood in their family.


And you cant fondle that area? :lol: You can fondle that area in both sexes what world are you from?No, you can't fondle that area, because there's nothing to fondle, the parts down there are smaller than hands, obviously. Hellooo? You can fondle men in that area, that part is true, a penis is grabable by a hand even when clothed, but not women. Other dictionaries don't share your definition there.



Maybe you should go back to Canada instead of lecturing japanese people on chikan, especially when its happened to me for years a couple of times a month.

I'll lecture Japanese on chikan because we have crowded trains in Toronto and nobody gets sexually assaulted, obviously that means we have a system that prevents these incidents from occuring, you should try and figure out what it is in the systems in the west that keep it from happening. Crowded trains do exist in the west, it is not unique to Japan, Toronto's southern Yonge Line is just as crowded as any line in central Tokyo (Toronto is really struggling with the overcrowding, it's become a big deal). So yeah, I'll lecture you, because I've lived in a system that manages to keep the problem from happening in the same environment. You're a dual citizen, aren't you? You can go to France to avoid the problem. Or you can set a good example for other Japanese and kick a pervert's ass when they try something. If that kind of thing ever happens in the west, I guarantee you the man responsible would be questioning his ability to father children within seconds of the the incident.

also man they got to stop with the suicides issue on the Chuo line there why does it happen there

Cheap cheap cheap! :D (that's what I've heard, anyway, it has the cheapest penalty to the family for service disruptions caused by suicides)

In an ideal world, neither of them occur but we live in reality...
Maybe in 2040, we may genetically engineer ourselves and deprive men of sexual appetite so that there will be no raping or chikan anymore and this doesn't sound like a bad idea to be honest. It will also put an end to pornography/pedophilia/human trafficking.

And by 2100 it would also put an end to the human race since nobody would have children since nobody has sexual appetites.:nuts:

The theories that make the most sense are the ones that deal with how these men are raised, and/or what kind of life they went through at school, and/or what kind of marriage they're in. Statistics tell tales of sexless marriages being sky high, ranging from 40%-60%. Not an excuse at all, but it is possibly an influence on the source of the problem. If you can find the source, you can develop a cure. One source is also the fact that men know they can get away with it, which is why I push the idea of women opening cans o' whoop-ass.

日本は凄く安全な国ですよ

犯罪率としてはそれが真理ですが、犯罪を警察に知らせなければ犯罪率に含まれません。って言うのは、痴漢の実際数をだれも知らないので（前の記載された率は警察からでは無かったのです）、犯罪率で反映されません。

why the hell doesnt ignore work? I put ignore on and it didnt work, i guess its cause the forum was messed up.
Yes, you did, you said "most of the groping is underneat, unless girls are grabbing the guys #&$^ then its not the same." So, busted. You can't fib your way out of posts you've already been quoted on.
Who said that is penis? I was talking about the behind

Not just the chest, but they do it like they're feelin ya up, or a reach-around of sorts, they're definately not doing this by accident at any rate. And yeah, I know, they've tried it on me. At first I think it's an accident, but then when it keeps on happening, yeah, one starts to clue in. Nothing pathetic about it, except your notion that one sex is allowed to do it while the other isn't. That's pathetic. You can call it a joke if you want, but the hypocrisy is horsecrap. You're entitled to your opinion, but nobody is going to agree with you on your idea that women can harass men if they want while men should be demonized and arrested. BOTH should be demonized and arrested, I don't care what body parts you got or what kind of clothes you wear.
Where did i say its ok for women to do it to men? All i said is men are stronger and can defend themselves much better, and that the ratio is probably like 50 to 1 (if a women fights back the guy can subdue her easily if theres no one around many chikan are not only in trains but also when im unlocking my bike, or late at night there are a certain stalkers). SHow me where i said its ok for women? I think its pathetic that youre COMPARING the 2 when they are not comparable, unless youre telling me you got touched in your legs/behind and front too a couple times a month for years.

Since you're this big expert on the situation, answer this one; why don't you fight back? Given your French influence, you should be less passive about it than someone who's only got Japanese blood in their family.
WHo says i dont? I slap the **** out of them and have gotten alot of them arrested (if its in the train, but alot of times its outside of the train and or at night so i just run away). And blood has nothing to do with anything, its the culture.

No, you can't fondle that area, because there's nothing to fondle, the parts down there are smaller than hands, obviously. Hellooo? You can fondle men in that area, that part is true, a penis is grabable by a hand even when clothed, but not women. Other dictionaries don't share your definition there.
You're canadian and your english isnt even good? :lol:
1fondle
touch lightly and with affection, with brushing motions

2 Merriam-Webster
2: to handle tenderly, lovingly, or lingeringly : caress
: to show affection or desire by caressing
1. To touch or stroke in an affectionate or loving manner.
3. To treat fondly, kindly, or favorably; cherish.
3. grope - fondle for sexual pleasure; "He made some sexual advances at the woman in his office and groped her repeatedly"
caress, fondle - touch or stroke lightly in a loving or endearing manner; "He caressed her face"; "They fondled in the back seat of the taxi".
–verb (used with object
4. to touch or handle (someone) for sexual pleasure.

If that isnt fondle/grope, then what is your "word" for when a guy is touching/rubbing a girls "private"?


I'll lecture Japanese on chikan because we have crowded trains in Toronto and nobody gets sexually assaulted, obviously that means we have a system that prevents these incidents from occuring, you should try and figure out what it is in the systems in the west that keep it from happening. Crowded trains do exist in the west, it is not unique to Japan, Toronto's southern Yonge Line is just as crowded as any line in central Tokyo (Toronto is really struggling with the overcrowding, it's become a big deal). So yeah, I'll lecture you, because I've lived in a system that manages to keep the problem from happening in the same environment. You're a dual citizen, aren't you? You can go to France to avoid the problem. Or you can set a good example for other Japanese and kick a pervert's ass when they try something. If that kind of thing ever happens in the west, I guarantee you the man responsible would be questioning his ability to father children within seconds of the the incident.System? it has nothing to do with system it has to do with culture.
What do i have to do with any of this? You are lecturing me on what chikan is and what they do when you have no idea what youre talking about. Talking about breats as if thats the main thing when its not its more of pushing and rubbing body or touching the lower areas, and comparing what i had to go through to what you did, as if what men have to deal with is as bad as what 2/3 of women in japanese trains have to deal with with the majority of it happening frequently, and on top of that stalkers too. ANd youre right, in the west it happens less often because the people around you will probably beat the guy up (but you probably also have a higher chance of getting raped/robed). Unless youre talking about somehow changing japanese culture then the best thing is having women cars/male cars and mix cars. What are you doing in japan anyways? You pretend to be an expert on japan when youre not. You pretend to know everything and tell japanese girls about chikan? You should go back to Canada where you might actually be right about some stuff.

Ok i hope ignore works this time.

It's just a matter of whether we get more raping or groping/chikan.... In most countries, we get more raping than chikan while in Japan it's the other way around.

In an ideal world, neither of them occur but we live in reality...
Maybe in 2040, we may genetically engineer ourselves and deprive men of sexual appetite so that there will be no raping or chikan anymore and this doesn't sound like a bad idea to be honest. It will also put an end to pornography/pedophilia/human trafficking.

Hmm it kind of makes sense :lol: Considering the overwhelming majority of rape cases and chikan cases are men to women crime and not the other way around. It's all the testosterone... Theres nothing wrong with getting naughty :naughty: you just need to agree to it, not like gropers.

please stop this fighting honestly ok we get it just stop i discussed some railway things i should have just made a thread instead not put it in here its my fault that i did this.

Hanshin-Tigress: where do you live now and i am sorry about your bad experience and so forth it must be hard for a girl to live in japan espically there is perverts around have they installed Cameras in the Stations and trains and buses for that matter to catch those bad guys and bad girls.

i asked eariler of what TRZ put before this thing happened can anybody awnser this too?

great photos TRZ about that Railway line it seems cool that there elevating it i want to know something is that the same way there doing to the Chuo Line as well?

because i have heard of the Chuo line Grade Seperation project but i wonder if there is any pictures or videos of the construction going on by there? is it going to be similar to other projects like for the Meguro Line Extension? or the LIRR Third Track Main line project which includes Grade Seperation and Caltrain's Electrification project which includes Grade Seperation also for the CHSR project as well?

the Asiatunnel project was also that was for Frieght and passengers because i saw a potential on JR Freight and it can have international commerince and so forth while the tunnels can be also used for Passenger Rail Travel like an International Shinkansen based on the look of the JR West 500 Series my favorite Shinkansen Rail car and also the profromnce and Tilting mechanism of the N700.

but it seems to be that it will never happen and it was grounded to today's technology not futuristic or anything i was making it more real this entire Scale Project i dreamed off was inspired by the Channel tunnel and Eurostar and also the Eurotunnel company and i looked at it and saw potenital espically the CTRL High Speed one project in england, as for JR Frieght i don't think its a joke if it was a joke they wouldn't exist as a company anymore plus the benefits that Rail frieght bring is alot its very energy efficent, cost effective its cheaper to run on Tracks and so forth so JR Frieght is not that bad and with the Asiatunnel project i was trying to raise its role higher but also at the same time elevated the passenger rail travel as well and this means the international Rail Travel like the Eurostar.

how is the Eurostar a failure after the CTRL project it got alot better now how does it Fail TRZ because it see it much successful now that they go fast even in england and also there is a station where the olympic area will be in london and also there is a new station in Ebbsifleet Station which is the ultimate international park and Ride station in England, how is that a failure TRZ?

Who said that is penis? I was talking about the behind
I think you need to read your own quote, you said "guys #&$^", now, nobody censors "ass" since the 1990s, and "#&$^" is four letters anyway, not three, so the only candidate left that makes sense is a four-letter word starting with "c". "Underneath" also doesn't refer to the behind, the behind is behind you, not underneath you, especially when standing. You need to work on clarity.



Where did i say its ok for women to do it to men?

I defended neither, I said both were wrong.何言ってんだよ？
そんな事言っちゃだめよ。

You obviously disagree with the idea that it is wrong for women to touch men on crowded trains when you say "what're you saying?! You can't possibly say that!" in response. If you disagree, then you must think it is ok for women to do it to men, there's really no alternative.

Hi, but this is called a "double-standard," something that women have longed complained about, and now you're applying the same on men.



All i said is men are stronger and can defend themselves much better, and that the ratio is probably like 50 to 1 (if a women fights back the guy can subdue her easily if theres no one around many chikan are not only in trains but also when im unlocking my bike, or late at night there are a certain stalkers). SHow me where i said its ok for women?I just showed you above. Stalkers are a separate issue and is off-topic. Also, legally speaking, it is very risky for men to defend themselves, 'cause if a man tries, unless he can round up a lot of witnesses, the courts will side with the woman, even if the man acted in self-defence. Heck, women can make up the whole thing and the courts will STILL side with the woman unless there's witnesses. Guys basically can't do anything without getting slammed by the system, so no, we can't defend ourselves, we lose either way. You have the freedom to knee a pervert's nuts so hard the pop out his mouth and nobody will think twice of it. That actually gives you more freedom to defend yourself than guys, as far as legal consequences are concerned. Be grateful the system is stacked in your favour.

I think its pathetic that youre COMPARING the 2 when they are not comparable, unless youre telling me you got touched in your legs/behind and front too a couple times a month for years.Ratio is completely irrelevant. You can't say it is fine for women to do it just because they do it less frequently, that's the worst argument I've heard in a while.



WHo says i dont? I slap the **** out of them and have gotten alot of them arrested (if its in the train, but alot of times its outside of the train and or at night so i just run away). And blood has nothing to do with anything, its the culture.Culture and blood are directly related (assuming both parents raise you), that should be obvious, culture is influenced directly by blood. So if you're kicking the crap out of them why are you whining about being so helpless? You're not a defenseless victim if the pervs are getting arrested or hurt. You're a victim, but not defenseless. If most Japanese girls responded like you, then the problem likely wouldn't be what it is.

The practice of some Japanese women using extortion to make a quick buck on perverts doesn't help the situation either. I have no sympathy for the perverts obviously, but the mentally it propogates is not helping the problem, since the result is the perverts thinks: "Oh, I can get away with it as long as a I pay few man-yen).



You're canadian and your english isnt even good? :lol:
1fondle
touch lightly and with affection, with brushing motions

2 Merriam-Webster
2: to handle tenderly, lovingly, or lingeringly : caress
: to show affection or desire by caressing
1. To touch or stroke in an affectionate or loving manner.
3. To treat fondly, kindly, or favorably; cherish.
3. grope - fondle for sexual pleasure; "He made some sexual advances at the woman in his office and groped her repeatedly"
caress, fondle - touch or stroke lightly in a loving or endearing manner; "He caressed her face"; "They fondled in the back seat of the taxi".
–verb (used with object
4. to touch or handle (someone) for sexual pleasure.

If that isnt fondle/grope, then what is your "word" for when a guy is touching/rubbing a girls "private"?I find it curious how you previously criticized American girls for trying to act like they know more Japanese than you when you're the native Japanese speaker and they're not, now you're trying to act like you know more English than I do when I'm the native speaker and you're not.

Fondling involves the whole hand - palm and fingers. Breats and asses are big enough to use your entire hand on. You can only really use your fingers on a girl's privates, not enough space for more than that. Call it what I called it before; sexual assault. Or call it fingering if you want, doesn't make much difference to me, but it is different from fondling. Your definition up there isn't "wrong", but it doesn't describe how it is different from other forms of touch.



System? it has nothing to do with system it has to do with culture.
The system is society. Culture is a one part of a society. Railways are a sub-system of a society. It has everything to do with a system. Culture is a big part of it, but not the only part either.


What do i have to do with any of this?You don't have to stay here; you've still got France if it's too much to handle.

You are lecturing me on what chikan is and what they do when you have no idea what youre talking about. Talking about breats as if thats the main thing when its not its more of pushing and rubbing body or touching the lower areas, and comparing what i had to go through to what you did, as if what men have to deal with is as bad as what 2/3 of women in japanese trains have to deal with with the majority of it happening frequently, and on top of that stalkers too.As mentioned earlier, stalkers are a separate issue and off-topic. You can fire off all the ratios you want, it doesn't mean women are allowed to do it, and you continue to argue otherwise for who-knows-what reason. You act like all men are evil perverts and all women are innocent victims. That happens to be the mindset that women-only cars will propogate, too.


ANd youre right, in the west it happens less often because the people around you will probably beat the guy up (but you probably also have a higher chance of getting raped/robed). Unless youre talking about somehow changing japanese culture then the best thing is having women cars/male cars and mix cars.
Women-only cars doesn't help things at all in the long term (short-term, as I said earlier, is fine, as a temporary measure), it makes matters worse if this is supposed to be a permanent solution, because it doesn't get at the source. I know what I'm talking about, there's been enough written about this problem, it is well documented, but the conclusion that women-only cars are a practical long-term solution is very poorly thought-out when you think about the social attitudes that will result.
Yes, the culture does have to change. That's the only way the problem is really going to be addressed. I know you agree with this, becuase you have already said yourself that it is the culture at fault.


What are you doing in japan anyways? You pretend to be an expert on japan when youre not. You pretend to know everything and tell japanese girls about chikan? You should go back to Canada where you might actually be right about some stuff.What are you doing in Japan? I'm here legally, so beyond that, it's completely irrelevant. You should go back to France where you don't have to complain about perverts on trains all the time.

It's starting to get obvious that you are still just ticked off over the last time where you couldn't recognize a joke for a what it was. Frankly, I expected more from you.

Get more (lots more) Japanese women to react like you do when a pervert strikes and eventually the problem will start to subside. As long as women are passive, or are using perverts to make a few man-yen per incident, it'll linger.


Ok i hope ignore works this time.

Don't worry about it, I'll put you on my list.

why the hell doesnt ignore work? I put ignore on and it didnt work, i guess its cause the forum was messed up.

Who said that is penis? I was talking about the behind
Why do you always put $*%&$ when you talk about ass? you did it like in everysingle thread.

Where did i say its ok for women to do it to men? All i said is men are stronger and can defend themselves much better, and that the ratio is probably like 50 to 1 (if a women fights back the guy can subdue her easily if theres no one around many chikan are not only in trains but also when im unlocking my bike, or late at night there are a certain stalkers). SHow me where i said its ok for women? I think its pathetic that youre COMPARING the 2 when they are not comparable, unless youre telling me you got touched in your legs/behind and front too a couple times a month for years.
True but if men fight back youd probably get put into jail.

WHo says i dont? I slap the **** out of them and have gotten alot of them arrested (if its in the train, but alot of times its outside of the train and or at night so i just run away). And blood has nothing to do with anything, its the culture.
Yes but i think you know what he ment by "blood". But youre right, a third generation japanese living in the US would be just like any american, it doesnt have anything to do with "blood".


You're canadian and your english isnt even good? :lol:
1fondle
touch lightly and with affection, with brushing motions

2 Merriam-Webster
2: to handle tenderly, lovingly, or lingeringly : caress
: to show affection or desire by caressing
1. To touch or stroke in an affectionate or loving manner.
3. To treat fondly, kindly, or favorably; cherish.
3. grope - fondle for sexual pleasure; "He made some sexual advances at the woman in his office and groped her repeatedly"
caress, fondle - touch or stroke lightly in a loving or endearing manner; "He caressed her face"; "They fondled in the back seat of the taxi".
–verb (used with object
4. to touch or handle (someone) for sexual pleasure.

If that isnt fondle/grope, then what is your "word" for when a guy is touching/rubbing a girls "private"?
You are correct here, you can fondle/grope any part of the body. At least according to the definition of the word.


System? it has nothing to do with system it has to do with culture.
What do i have to do with any of this? You are lecturing me on what chikan is and what they do when you have no idea what youre talking about. Talking about breats as if thats the main thing when its not its more of pushing and rubbing body or touching the lower areas, and comparing what i had to go through to what you did, as if what men have to deal with is as bad as what 2/3 of women in japanese trains have to deal with with the majority of it happening frequently, and on top of that stalkers too. ANd youre right, in the west it happens less often because the people around you will probably beat the guy up (but you probably also have a higher chance of getting raped/robed). Unless youre talking about somehow changing japanese culture then the best thing is having women cars/male cars and mix cars. What are you doing in japan anyways? You pretend to be an expert on japan when youre not. You pretend to know everything and tell japanese girls about chikan? You should go back to Canada where you might actually be right about some stuff.

Ok i hope ignore works this time.

lolz the japanese attitude towards "gaijins" is funny. Anyways i agree here again, but i also agree with TRZ that both are bad, but its not really comparable to what women have to put up with. I studied abroad in japan for 2 years and a few incidents happened to me but way spread out and not frequently, but they werent comparable to what the women have to put up. Constantly being rubbed up/grinded on and groped in the private areas (ass/*ussy), and some of my japanese friends (girls) also had to put up with a couple of weird guys that would wait for them at their bike and ask for numbers. All in all both are bad but i agree not comparable.

Also i dont really see a major fix for this. I suggest in japanese middle school they have a class for girls to fight back when this happens. However it is very hard to change a culture and social constructs so it wont be an easy solution by any means. By the way have you used the metros in paris? How are they like?

Why do you always put $*%&$ when you talk about ass? you did it like in everysingle thread.
I dont like to talk about it? :dunno:



lolz the japanese attitude towards "gaijins" is funny. Anyways i agree here again, but i also agree with TRZ that both are bad, but its not really comparable to what women have to put up with. I studied abroad in japan for 2 years and a few incidents happened to me but way spread out and not frequently, but they werent comparable to what the women have to put up. Constantly being rubbed up/grinded on and groped in the private areas (ass/*ussy), and some of my japanese friends (girls) also had to put up with a couple of weird guys that would wait for them at their bike and ask for numbers. All in all both are bad but i agree not comparable.
Thats what im saying

By the way have you used the metros in paris? How are they like?

Whenever i visit my family in france i do, im half french but i have never lived there for a long period of time, so i cant comment on the "chikan" situation there (Im japanese citizen and lived here for 15-16 years out of 19 years the rest in the US). But there were alot of robberies etc in the paris metro i think..

I dont like to talk about it? :dunno:




Thats what im saying



Whenever i visit my family in france i do, im half french but i have never lived there for a long period of time, so i cant comment on the "chikan" situation there (Im japanese citizen and lived there for 15-16 years out of 19 years the rest in the US). But there were alot of robberies etc in the paris metro i think..

While i guess in the west you have to worry more about your personal safety, in japan girls have to worry more about being groped :ohno:. By the way did you ever think the reason you get groped so much (what youre saying is more than usual) has to do with how you look... Im not saying that as an excuse just throwing it out there. Since you are a "haafu" I'd think many japanese guys would find you exotic but in the pictures i've seen of you your face looks mostly asian, but you have a more western figure IMHO, kind of like Obama girl in my avatar! :D. Hope i didnt offend you.
:cheers:

oh man this is my fault i am sorry i started this fight please just stop it please stop it i am sorry please i am sorry Hanshin and TRZ i am very sorry i brought the subject up please i am deeply sorry, can anybody awnser my questions about this questions i am asking?

please stop this fighting honestly ok we get it just stop i discussed some railway things i should have just made a thread instead not put it in here its my fault that i did this.

Hanshin-Tigress: where do you live now and i am sorry about your bad experience and so forth it must be hard for a girl to live in japan espically there is perverts around have they installed Cameras in the Stations and trains and buses for that matter to catch those bad guys and bad girls.

i asked eariler of what TRZ put before this thing happened can anybody awnser this too?

great photos TRZ about that Railway line it seems cool that there elevating it i want to know something is that the same way there doing to the Chuo Line as well?

because i have heard of the Chuo line Grade Seperation project but i wonder if there is any pictures or videos of the construction going on by there? is it going to be similar to other projects like for the Meguro Line Extension? or the LIRR Third Track Main line project which includes Grade Seperation and Caltrain's Electrification project which includes Grade Seperation also for the CHSR project as well?

the Asiatunnel project was also that was for Frieght and passengers because i saw a potential on JR Freight and it can have international commerince and so forth while the tunnels can be also used for Passenger Rail Travel like an International Shinkansen based on the look of the JR West 500 Series my favorite Shinkansen Rail car and also the profromnce and Tilting mechanism of the N700.

but it seems to be that it will never happen and it was grounded to today's technology not futuristic or anything i was making it more real this entire Scale Project i dreamed off was inspired by the Channel tunnel and Eurostar and also the Eurotunnel company and i looked at it and saw potenital espically the CTRL High Speed one project in england, as for JR Frieght i don't think its a joke if it was a joke they wouldn't exist as a company anymore plus the benefits that Rail frieght bring is alot its very energy efficent, cost effective its cheaper to run on Tracks and so forth so JR Frieght is not that bad and with the Asiatunnel project i was trying to raise its role higher but also at the same time elevated the passenger rail travel as well and this means the international Rail Travel like the Eurostar.

how is the Eurostar a failure after the CTRL project it got alot better now how does it Fail TRZ because it see it much successful now that they go fast even in england and also there is a station where the olympic area will be in london and also there is a new station in Ebbsifleet Station which is the ultimate international park and Ride station in England, how is that a failure TRZ?

The Asiatunnel thing you speak of wouldn't work IMHO firstly because the demand isnt' there and secondly it it does get built it will go from Kyushu to Busan....not that inticing. Eurostar on the other hand connects London and Paris.

Although I have never used the Japanese metro system I have used the Paris metro, and let me say that at least in comparison to pictures of the Japanese metro, the Paris metro is pretty lame. It's exceedingly dirty, smelly, and filled with bums. It was not fun to ride. Also the French people looked at me strangely...which frankly was amazing because how different can Americans and French look?

どうやって外見だけから分かること出きるかな・・・

ocan anybody answer my questions about this questions i am asking?
The Eurostar isn't a failure, it just didn't reach the passenger numbers that were expected when the services started. Those numbers were just to high, in 2007 the passenger number was 8.26 million, the initial expectations were over 20 million passengers every year. But in reality the tunnel didn't lead to much more people traveling to and from the UK. But it did take a dominant share on the Paris/Brussels - London route in the rail/air market even with all the low costs airlines that emerged after the tunnel was opened. If the Eurostar is profitable is hard to say since it's only a brand operated by three different companies, one for every country it serves. No detailed financial results are posted like for the Eurotunnel company.

But after the High Speed 1 line came in service there was a significant passenger growth for Eurostar in the 1st months of this year. It's still growing even with the fierce competition from the airlines, so the product Eurostar is a success.

The moral of the story is that you should overestimate future passenger numbers in order to get a mega project approved. The Eurotunnel works right now, after years financial problems because it connects like nemu says Paris with London in 2 hours and 15 minutes. If you would connect Tokyo with Seoul (2 places with same status) with a train tunnel it wouldn't be nearly as fast, and speed is what matters in this kind of travel.

oh ok thanks for the info then what are the japanese views to the eurostar and TGV do they look an inspiration to it?

is the eurostar better or faster then the shinkansen or is the shinkansen the king of HSR?

also is the Chuo line going a grade seperation project do the japanese look at other systems around the world for inspiration like did they look at the LIRR because thats going to have a third track on the main line and Caltrain will be electrified and will be grade seperated? or they look at their own projects because Railway is a foriegn Technology not invented by the japanese.

what was the first electrification Railway in japan and also what drove the japanese to expand the electrification to most of japan while in the USA they use Diesel electric?

is Diesel Electric better then Electrified Railways or is it the other way around?

The moral of the story is that you should overestimate future passenger numbers in order to get a mega project approved. The Eurotunnel works right now, after years financial problems because it connects like nemu says Paris with London in 2 hours and 15 minutes. If you would connect Tokyo with Seoul (2 places with same status) with a train tunnel it wouldn't be nearly as fast, and speed is what matters in this kind of travel.

Actually speed is not the actual driving factor, economy is.
Even if it lighting fast if it costs 10-100 times the next fastest then a huge chunk of business will be willing to travel with the alternate.
A good example would be the Concorde, although twice as fast as conventional jet liners the cost out weighed speed and did not catch up.
Planes although reasonable at the moment, may become economically unviable to the majority with the rise of oil at it's insane rate.

Actually speed is not the actual driving factor, economy is.
Even if it lighting fast if it costs 10-100 times the next fastest then a huge chunk of business will be willing to travel with the alternate.
A good example would be the Concorde, although twice as fast as conventional jet liners the cost out weighed speed and did not catch up.

Speed is and isn't a factor; it depends on how speed is measured. If you measure it from airport-airport, that will give you one speed, and if you measure passenger origin to passenger destination (the non-airport locations), that gives you another speed.
More important than speed, is convenience.
Airports are incovenient, but both Concorde and conventional jets require airports. Concorde also had special requirements that not every airport could facilitate. That means a strong possibility you'd require a transfer, and we all know how much fun it is to dick around at an airport for who knows how many hours. You have to start and your place and get to an airport, located in the middle of nowhere, where you board a plane that takes to another airport located in the middle of nowhere, where you can connect to the Concorde that will take you to another airport in the middle of nowhere, where you are on your own to get somewhere.
By comparison, the Shinkansen goes from downtown to downtown, somewhere to somewhere, and almost always has better transportation access than airports and also avoids wait times altogether that airports are notorious for.
This makes the Shinkansen so convenient, that although it is cheaper to fly, Shinkansen is still favoured for certain domestic trips, the extra costs are worth it to passengers who'd rather not screw around with airports located in the middle of nowhere and all that. :)

People will not pay for speed; they will pay for convenience. However, convenience is a time-saver in its own right.

THIS is the Rosetta stone for ridership figures :D

http://www.train-media.net/report/0711/joukou_2006.pdfMan, do you have any idea what you have done to me?
I printed this document out and study it while commuting to work. :D
Those numbers are absolutely amazing...

And this without fully understanding column titles, as I failed to find them in the dictionary.
定期 - 定期外 = people entering with/without regular passes?
通過人員 = what does it exactly mean and under what conditions? (i.e. both directions?)

Can anyone help me out please?

I had some time to spare today, and tried to visualize some of the numbers from that document. Here is the ridership of the subway lines (sorry for the sharpness loss, I made a mistake in resizing and was to lazy to correct it :) ).



http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4668/tmrp1eb1.gif

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2478/tmrp2sp6.gif

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/5248/tmrp3uu0.gif

most of the ridership are pretty high on most lines just i am wondering about the oedo line it makes me sad to see that it hasn't peaked or anything like that?

Man, do you have any idea what you have done to me?
I printed this document out and study it while commuting to work. :D
Those numbers are absolutely amazing...

And this without fully understanding column titles, as I failed to find them in the dictionary.
定期 - 定期外 = people entering with/without regular passes?
通過人員 = what does it exactly mean and under what conditions? (i.e. both directions?)

Can anyone help me out please?

定期 - 定期外 = Differencial of people who enters with and without a commuter pass.

通過人員 = Number of people who travels beyond specied station.

most of the ridership are pretty high on most lines just i am wondering about the oedo line it makes me sad to see that it hasn't peaked or anything like that?

Oedo Line uses a different technology than other systems in Tokyo. The technology is referred to by some as "mini subway" technology, since the tunnel cross-sections are 2/3rds the size of conventional subways. Of course, this also has some impact on its capacity.

Oedo Line is still maturing though. The northern part of the loop is only 5-6 years old, and it is a poor performer along this portion as the charts suggest.

The Hikari-ga-Oka to Daimon part of the line works quite well though, it has matured more since that part of the line is older, but it also benefits from the fact that demand south of the Emporer's palace has always been greater than demand on the north side. This part of the line alternatives to the Yamanote and Chuuou Local lines (via Seibu and Marunouchi Lines' as catch basins) by taking riders at Nerima, Nakai, Higashi-Nakano, Nakano-Sakaue, Shinjuku, Yoyogi, and Kokuritsu-kyogijou, while also providing attractive access to Roppongi, Azabu-juuban, and Daimon from a direction that existing lines did not originate from. The line acts as a great short-cut to reaching these areas, as the alternatives would be very round-about and cumbersome. This has played strongly for the older half of the Oedo Line.

The east and northern half of the loop part of the line is more geared towards spurring development than improving the existing system. The transfers in this part of the line are also some of the most craptastic transfers imaginable and the designers should be shot for their stupidity at Kura-mae, Hongou-Sanchoume, Ryougoku, and the missed connection at Yushima, these all harm the convenience of the Oedo Line by making an existing unpleasant element of public transit - transfers, even more unpleaseant than they tend to be by default. Other lines in the past have been smart enough to make different lines share an island platform to minimize the bother that comes with transferring, but only place the Oedo Line does this itself is at Tochou-Mae, and is actually a big source of confusion for anybody that is not regular user of the line.

The Oedo Line also suffers from its reputation (and fact) as being obscenely deep and is a deterrent to the convenience of the subway. Oedo Line is the newest line in the network, although that changes to second-newest next month, but anyway, as the newest line in the network, it has to travel beneath existing tunnels of other lines and/or travel underneath foundations of existing skyscrapers.

The Oedo Line is a success for its first half (upto Daimon), but the latter half is more of an development-spurring nature (which I'd call a gamble). Kachidoki among other areas are seeing development that is a result of the Oedo Line, but I don't think it will be enough.

It should be noted that even the Mita Line does better in ridership when it is a 6-car train... Oedo is 8 cars (but the cars are shorter). Mita Line will be extended to 8 cars soon, it is waiting for Toukyuu Meguro Line platform extension construction to finish. Namboku Line and Mita Line are already ready to start using 8-car trains.

The Oedo line should profit from more new developments in Roppongi.

定期 - 定期外 = Differencial of people who enters with and without a commuter pass.

通過人員 = Number of people who travels beyond specied station.Thank You!


@TRZ
Very interesting!

The first time I wondered about the sometimes strange route of the Oedo Line, was when I read that the Tozai Line is currently the only line that has a transfer with every other line (except Fukutoshin).
I was like "no way" and looked up the route of the Oedo Line immediately. I was stunned that apparently not only it completely ignores the existance of the Chiyoda Line, it even has no transfer to TOEIs own Mita Line in the southern section. :ohno:

yeah well thanks TRZ that was very interesting of the Oedo line information.

but i been wondering the Tokyo Metro says that after the new line opens they won't be constructing any new lines in tokyo but this strikes me as they could be saying something else though.

i think what could this means is that they will not build new lines but expand or should i say extend the routes to other areas and deliver more services on other routes.

Japan Railways is just the umbrella group of 7 privately owned companies that manage the rail infrastructure. Therefore before the privatisation of JR, there were too much infrastructure with medicore passenger usage growth.

Japan simply had a rail network ahead of its time with passenger demand very soft. Today it is a very different story as the 7 private firms compete for
regional routes crossing into each other territories.

JR Hokkaido
JR East
JR Central
JR West

The biggest of which is the JR East, JR Central and JR West.

yeah well thanks TRZ that was very interesting of the Oedo line information.

but i been wondering the Tokyo Metro says that after the new line opens they won't be constructing any new lines in tokyo but this strikes me as they could be saying something else though.

i think what could this means is that they will not build new lines but expand or should i say extend the routes to other areas and deliver more services on other routes.

Not likely. The fact is that inside the Yamanote Loop, almost every major street now has a subway underneath it. The subway companies have run out of streets to tunnel under! Outside of the Yamanote Loop, commuter railways provide great service already and Tokyo Metro not only doesn't want to compete (when it has practically a monopoly inside the Yamanote line except for JR and Toei), and the fact that it already runs through-services on those commuter lines anyway, so they are buddy-buddy. This makes extensions impossible on the following lines due to through-services;

Hibiya Line - through on Toukyuu Touyoko Line in the south, and Toubu Isesaki Line (local) in the north
Chiyoda Line - through on Odakyuu Line in the west, and JR Jouban Line in the east
Hanzoumon Line - through on Toukyuu Den-en-toshi Line i the southwest, and Toubu Isesaki Line (express/semi-express) in the northeast
Touzai Line - through on JR Chuuou Local in the west, and Touyou Railway in the east, also uses JR Soubu Local in the east during rush hour
Namboku Line - through on Toukyuu Meguro Line in the south, and Saitama Railway in the north
Yuurakuchou Line - through on Toubu Toujou Line and Seibu Yuurakuchou/Ikebukuro Line in the northwest. No through-service on the southeast end, but could operate through on the Keiyou Line in future, perhaps. I find it very unlikely they would extend the line from Shin-Kiba.

That leaves only the Marunouchi Line, and Ginza Line, both are third-rail and standard gauge, which makes it impossible for them to run through-services on other lines. Ginza Line cannot be extended in any practical fashion. Marunouchi Line might be able to be extended out towards Nishi-Tokyo from Ogikubo, but it is pretty much boxed-in at Ikebukuro with nowhere to go.

Among the Toei Lines, the Oedo Line is a unique technology in the Tokyo area and so cannot run through-services on anything. There have been proposals for it to be extended northwest of Hikari-ga-Oka, but I am not familiar with the status of such proposals.
The Mita Line runs through service on the Toukyuu Meguro Line in the south, but nothing on the north side. They could extend it to Wakoushi, but Toubu Toujou Line already sees a lot of through-service from the Yuurakuchou Line which is soon going to be compounded by the Fukutoshin Line. Toubu Line does not use platform doors or one-man operation either. Wakoushi is technically outside of Toei's jurisdiction since it crosses the Tokyo border, near which the Mita Line currently terminates.
Shinjuku Line runs through service on the Keiou Line in the west, but nothing on the east. Shinjuku Line uses tram gauge and so cannot run through-service on any other railways besides Keiou, as Keiou is the only railway in Tokyo, except for the Setagaya Line and the Toden Line, that uses tram gauge. The current terminus is already outside of Tokyo proper, so the government can't extend this line further outside of its jurisdiction.
The Asakusa Line has the longest through-service operations IIRC. It runs through on the Keikyuu Line in the south, and on the Keisei Line and Hokusou Line to the northeast. It has a stub in Oota Ward that is close to but does not reach the Ikegami Line's Ikegami station. It might be extendable but have heard of no plans to do such.

The Fukutoshin Line will also run through services the same as the Yuurakuchou Line in the northwest, and in the south it will run through on the Toukyuu Touyoko Line.

So yeah, very few options to expand subway services in Tokyo.

The Oedo line should profit from more new developments in Roppongi.

Oedo Line was instrumental in the Tokyo Midtown development :D

The first time I wondered about the sometimes strange route of the Oedo Line, was when I read that the Tozai Line is currently the only line that has a transfer with every other line (except Fukutoshin).
I was like "no way" and looked up the route of the Oedo Line immediately. I was stunned that apparently not only it completely ignores the existance of the Chiyoda Line, it even has no transfer to TOEIs own Mita Line in the southern section. :ohno:

Yeah, I know, that Onarimon-Akabanebashi area setup is weird. Kura-mae is still the bigger botch though, that should not be listed as a transfer, period, nor should they have the same name.

Some lines like to ignore each other. Fukutoshin Line and Touzai Line do cross each other near Nishi-Waseda, but you can't add a station there.

thanks TRZ that was informative man your more smarter on this i wonder maybe if JR needs Foreign assitants maybe you should be one of them because you have ideas that can help them.

did somebody awnsered this or is there more information that i missed on?

also is the Chuo line going a grade seperation project do the japanese look at other systems around the world for inspiration like did they look at the LIRR because thats going to have a third track on the main line and Caltrain will be electrified and will be grade seperated? or they look at their own projects because Railway is a foriegn Technology not invented by the japanese.

what was the first electrification Railway in japan and also what drove the japanese to expand the electrification to most of japan while in the USA they use Diesel electric?

is Diesel Electric better then Electrified Railways or is it the other way around?

日本の地下鉄
BE35onlIySk
:nuts:

that is funny its like the people are being stuck in there like sardines or like pushing a fridge thanks Hanshin.

now i know never to go in Japan Railways during rush hour and i am sorry for your bad experience of that Hanshin.

^Is that the Sobu line?

^^ 多分ね。　:dunno:

According to the video's comments its taken in 1991 on the Seibu-Ikebukuro Line.
And they talk about flexitime, what it is?

And they talk about flexitime, what it is?

Flextime is shifting your 8 hours of work to another part of the day. Instead of working from 9-6, you might work from 11-8 in a flex-time environment. This allows you to avoid the morning rush.

According to the video's comments its taken in 1991 on the Seibu-Ikebukuro Line.
And they talk about flexitime, what it is?

Now I recognize the yellow trains. Sometimes I ride the Seibu-Ikebukuro line, but never in the peak time/direction. Thanks Flextime :D

I see.
Another question, Lot of stations have transfer gates, how are they meant to be used?
Example: I use JR pass to get to Chuo line, get off at Shinjuku and transfer to Odakyu line using SUICA. Is this possible with transfer gate?

And is it possible to ride Matsudo -> Machida -> Matsudo (JR Joban line local service -> Chiyoda Line -> Odakyu line) only with platform ticket?

Other community buses
There are 36 kinds of community buses in Tokyo.
What do you mean by kind?

^I go through a transfer gate on a daily basis (JR Gotanda > Tokyu Gotanda) Just place the card on the reader and get to the platform, as these transfer gates work for the two companies.
The transfer example you mention is possible. Another typical transfer is coming back to Tokyo on the shinkansen: usually the regular fare ticket allows you to exit/transfer at any Yamanote line station, in my case I introduce the JR ticket and place the Pasmo card on the reader, that's all.

oh i want to know something is japan Railways well are they making the Freight Transport be with JR Freight alot, i am saying this is because alot of countries around the world are encouraging more freight to be transported by Rail on land is it the same thing wih JR Freight, and is it more ecomonical?

oh i want to know something is japan Railways well are they making the Freight Transport be with JR Freight alot, i am saying this is because alot of countries around the world are encouraging more freight to be transported by Rail on land is it the same thing wih JR Freight, and is it more ecomonical?
Freight rail is not economical in Japan. Sea and truck, due to the long and thin geography of the archipelago known as Japan, sea freight becomes the most economical, no contest. This makes shipping by truck from the ports relatively short. As for domestic shipping, which is the only shipping area where JR Freight can compete at all (it cannot play much of any role in international freight), it only takes about 10% of the market. Trucks dominate the domestic market since the land area is relatively small and door-to-door service wins out over the use of freight terminals.

What is the best trainspotting place in Tokyo?

My previous post's second question didn't get any answers, so I take that as yes...

one of the main reasons why i came up for the Asiatunnel Project it was to be both Passenger mainly Shinkansen HSR and Freight Rail Tunnels.

the reason why Asia has alot of cargo to transport and such and doing airflights are becoming more expensive then ever so i thought why not a Rail Link why not connect Asia to the rest of the globe it could make it alot better and Asia as a whole can be more renuinted like an Asia peace treaty or something kind of the model of the Channel Tunnel and Eurostar.

this project that i envision and kind of still do because if its done the right way it can be pulled off after all the shinkansen many japanese thought back then it was difficult and it will never worked well they built it and it worked and still does today.

also i was going to create an international Shinkansen probably could be paid by a different company just like Eurostar now with the CTRL project completed.

i know the project will not work but maybe if i plan it more carefully and so forth maybe it will be cheaper and functional yet awe striking.

anyways here is the other thing, i want to know something about some of the stations in japan i know the trains look nice and all that but i want to know can Stations look really jaw dropping and such like London St Pancras international, or like Grand Central Terminal in New York City, or like Paris Gare Du Nord where Eurostar terminates.

i wonder to myself what Station in japan is big but i mean big and beautiful like grand that you feel in walking and it has big spacious places and they have annoucments that it seems familar to an airport and also they have jazz music or classical music in the background?

The Japanese stations are neither big nor beautiful. Nevertheless, they are clean, convinient (mostly) and functional. I can't think of any 'jaw dropping' stations.

I don't have a problem with this however.

^Kyoto station is certainly jaw-dropping :)

^Kyoto station is certainly jaw-dropping :)

QFT

And in a few more years time, a massive train station complex will rise up. Frickin huge (if you've seen the renderings).

Personally though, I like the train stations on the Yurikamome line (as these are the newest train service in Japan today).

YURIKAMOME FTW!!!

:)

^^Yurikamome isn't newest.
^Kyoto station is certainly jaw-dropping :)

Yes, it certainly is, by far one of my favorites IN THE WORLD.

I am looking forward to the new Shibuya, since Japan's top architect is the designer for it. Just a few weeks until it is unvelied. :D

Saitama Shintoshin has some good design quality to it.

While newer stations are starting sport slightly less utilitarian style, the majority of stations, especially non-express stations, are generally "shack" style.

Where's the Pokemon bus? :)

A quick google search (http://images.google.com/images?q=%E3%83%9D%E3%82%B1%E3%83%A2%E3%83%B3+%E3%83%90%E3%82%B9&start=0&sa=N) gave me an image like this.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/5/5975448_1e18a28fcf.jpg?v=0

But nothing beats the grimness... erm, I mean weirdness, of moe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_%28slang%29) buses. (Buses with cute anime girls that no normal Japanese would recognize.)

From this site (http://oki2.jp/bus/):
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/5750/2himegb02lxm9.jpg

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1614/daiohk12loe6.jpg

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/9481/gunsuri03ljb4.jpg

I'm now starting to wonder why we don't have the thread for itasha (http://www.pinktentacle.com/2007/04/itasha-pimped-rides-otaku-style/) yet. :D

What do you mean by kind?

There are 36 community bus operators (=municipal governments) in Tokyo Prefecture alone. Community bus (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B3%E3%83%9F%E3%83%A5%E3%83%8B%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3%E3%83%90%E3%82%B9) is a feeder bus transit operated by regional governments, with generally smaller bus vehicles. It functions purely as public service, not as profit-making business, which makes community bus a rather unique concept among public transits in Japan.
Notice that normal (=major) bus transit by regional governments, such as Toei Bus, is not community bus.

i still find this odd because alot of the big Japanese Stations are not beautiful or has that historical thing to it and such.

Kyoto is one of them but still what about japan's largest station Nagoya is that huge like they say it is and if pictures can help me determine then maybe and also if someone took pictures of Kyoto i want to see them too.

this is not to offend japan or anything just something i find strange because i thought when the Railways come to the cities they usually come to the big stations that are beautiful and very classical like and so forth maybe i am getting the image of the european beautiful stations like Paris's Gare Du Nord, London Paddington and London St Pancreas international and such.

i understand its more function then sexy appeal thats what i know of but i just wish that they would be like an arts program or something that can make the stations stylish and all that.

like for instance for Narita and Hanada airport Stations i want to see a hanged model of an airplane or something for Akiababa or that district in Tokyo with all those crazy lights and so forth add some beautiful lighting to the station so it can match the neighborhood.

i might have said this in a previous post before but still i would like to see decoration or something you know?

^^ It's not without reason that the new big stations like Kyoto or the current under construction Osaka station are much more jaw-dropping then the "old ones".

The problem with the older big stations is that they expanded them several times during the post war boom years. It created an incoherent mess of stations and shopping malls that have no clear boundaries. And since there weren't too many grand stations like the old big European stations there was no need to rebuild them after the war (you should blame the American bombs for the lack of historic stations in Japan). Managing the insanely huge numbers of people using the stations every day was far more important.

I agree that the stations are in need of some decorating, for some of those stations it looks like they only did repair work since the 70's. Just a lick of paint in a different color could do wonders.

Or something like this, but then permanent. :D

More of Maki-Chan
http://i25.tinypic.com/2w3qih2.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/2cf487o.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/2nbu6id.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/6fxlhx.jpg

yeah those stupid american bombs anyways yeah the stations are in dire need of decoration or something you know.

i know Kyoto, the Osaka Station, and others have great spacious stations and so forth.

also who is Maki chan? sorry not too familer with japanese pop culture too much.

Horikita Maki is a popular and very lovely actress:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maki_Horikita
http://wiki.d-addicts.com/Horikita_Maki
http://www.horikita-collection.com/top.html

back on topic

What Japanese stations need is some proper train sheds over all the tracks and platforms, that will make the stations look much more spacious and grand. But maybe they aren't possible because of earthquake risks?

What Japanese stations need is some proper train sheds over all the tracks and platforms, that will make the stations look much more spacious and grand. But maybe they aren't possible because of earthquake risks?

Not really. Seibu Ikebukuro sports that exact thing, for example, after a renovation project that finished last year.

That's good to know, I hope we will see more in the future.

is there pictures of this Seibu Ikebukuro station about the project renovation?

How it is an European country when a line has a traffic similar as Tokyo.
That's not really good. :nuts:

http://www.dailymotion.com/related/1839298/video/x12674_rer-lignea_blog
http://www.dailymotion.com/related/x12674_rer-lignea_blog/video/x13f7m_encore-rate_travel
http://www.dailymotion.com/albull/video/x2b6up_lecon-1-savoir-patienter_extreme
http://www.dailymotion.com/albull/video/x2b6xi_lecon-2-savoir-jouer-des-coudes_fun
http://www.dailymotion.com/albull/video/x17nj7_lundi-matin-8h30_fun
http://www.dailymotion.com/albull/video/x15xfm_paris-underground_ads
http://www.dailymotion.com/related/1839298/video/x12dbc_rera-on-va-y-arriver_fun

yeah the RER is impressive but do they beat Tokyo's record?

is there pictures of this Seibu Ikebukuro station about the project renovation?
Surprisingly, images are a little hard to find.

http://tkawano.cool.ne.jp/eagles/st/inv01.jpg

http://isnot.jp/n3/images/20060918_seibusen.jpg

http://mods.mods.jp/blog/archives/images/tk1081.jpg

now thats what i am talking about a dome covered station thats cool.

it will be cool if they put a massive covering to Tokyo Station like to be the stations in Europe you know?

yeah the RER is impressive but do they beat Tokyo's record?

^^ by far no, we can't beat Tokyo.

what line is the shonan yokohama monorail?

Today I read an article in my newspaper about a very successful publicity stunt (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/27/japan) on the part of the Wakayama Electric Railway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakayama_Electric_Railway), which has appointed a cat as stationmaster of a sleepy station and seen passenger numbers on the line rise by ten per cent.

EDIT: Turns out there's already a thread about this (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=502623). :)

^^ めっちゃかわいい！
Yay wakayama :banana: 最高。
Some video
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=4389
頭いいね。

thats a cute cat i wonder if there any mascots for these railway services?

also hanshin and TRZ i am sorry for what happened here you know i started to ask about those questions i am the one that should apaloguise.

thats a cute cat i wonder if there any mascots for these railway services?

Some do, some don't.

Tsukuba Express:
http://img0.pr.ameba.jp/img/73/67/95d55cc3e13f2d9cbfeea1af75862d2d.jpg

Tokyo Transport Bureau (runs Toei Subway, Toden Streetcar, and Toei Buses)
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/images/keyword/13490.gif

Keiou:
http://www.keio.co.jp/train/ticket/pasmo/images/cmp_image02.jpg

Odakyuu (left side of the image, hard to find an image of the train voice man):
http://blog.so-net.ne.jp/_images/blog/_14e/mu3rail/9790263.jpg

Of course, among the most well-known of the lot; JR East's SuICa penguin, who's recently launched a musical career jammin on his mobile guitar :lol:
http://image.nowa.jp/p/byoms/0000002456df7f9ad06efc54531feee58fb633804de3b45-m.JPG

However, the SuICa competitor, PASMO, which doesn't represent one railway but an enormous group of railways, is trying to market itself via mascot as well (personally, I think this mascot is a failure, but oh well):
http://image.blog.livedoor.jp/hyperspeedking0418/imgs/3/a/3a0ae716.jpg

But some don't have mascots. Tokyo Metro, for example.

Saw this beauty while waiting for my Hikari Railstar at Okayama Station's Shinkensen tracks last week during my trip to Japan. It was empty, stopped for a few minutes then slipped out quietly.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9231/65687580jj4.jpg


Anyone know what train this is? It looks familiar but 80 pages of Japan Mass Transit thread is too much to look for.

I think it's a 500 Series Shinkansen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/500_Series_Shinkansen), but that's just from looking at the photos on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen#Gallery). :)

so the Asia tunnel mega project is not going to work and well i guess Japan doesn't want to be in the international effort of being connected to the rest of the world.

TRZ thanks for the mascots though i wonder if the united states have mascots like that?

also yes thats the JR West 500 Series Shinkansen Rail car.

Ah thanks guys! Too bad it's actually an older train because it looks so much more futuristic than the duck-billed N700 series.

Ah thanks guys! Too bad it's actually an older train because it looks so much more futuristic than the duck-billed N700 series.

Which is ironic because the duck-billed nose has better aerodynamics, so by performance is more "advanced" in shape. I agree though that the JRW500 Series has yet to be surpassed in aesthetics, although the Fastech series are indeed pretty.

the Fastech series are indeed pretty.
The stream-line nose looks cool indeed, but I have to say I don't really like the arrow-line shape though.

Stream-line nose (:banana:):
http://www.hobidas.com/blog/special05/archives/001.jpg

And Arrow-line nose (:ohno:):
http://www.hobidas.com/blog/special05/archives/002.jpg

I heard that unfortunately the arrow-type has better aerodynamics :(

well yeah by looks the Arrow doesn't win in the sex appeal but it wins in function sadly but also its very good remember a Rail car doesn't have to look very appealing for it to be very areodyamnic.

The stream-line nose looks cool indeed, but I have to say I don't really like the arrow-line shape though.

Stream-line nose (:banana:):
http://www.hobidas.com/blog/special05/archives/001.jpg

And Arrow-line nose (:ohno:):
http://www.hobidas.com/blog/special05/archives/002.jpg

I heard that unfortunately the arrow-type has better aerodynamics :(

The arrow-type for Fastech is a biiiiiiiiig improvement over the N700, which I was disappointed with in aesthetics (performs well though, no complaints there).

I like both Fastechs. The arrow-line shaped one is for the Touhoku and Jouetsu/Nagano main lines, while the stream-line nose will service the mini-shinkansen lines of Yamagata and Akita.

i wonder something though are the shinkansen the same length and size as the Eurostar and the TGV or are they different.

because i can't help that the shinkansen rail car and tracks seems much bigger then a regular JR rail Car and Tracks?

Well, according to Wikipedia:
Shinkansen class 700:
Car length: 27,35 / 25 m
Width: 3,38 m

Eurostar class 373:
Car length: 18,7 m
Width: 2,81 m

So yes, the shinkansen is a bit bigger, though it might be different in case of e.g. class E4 which also runs on standard lines (Akita & Yamagata Mini Shinkansen)

EDIT:
They're also much bigger than traditional japanese trains which normally are narrow gauge (shinkansen is normal gauge train)

　新東名、新名神高速道路に貨物専用の鉄道を併設して東京－大阪を結ぶ「東海道物流新幹線（ハイウェイトレイン）」の構想を、物流業界の代表や有識者でつくる同構想委員会（委員長・中村英夫武蔵工業大学長）が４日発表した。トラック輸送への過度の依存を転換し省エネと二酸化炭素（ＣＯ２）排出量の削減を目指すとしているが、実現には財源など難しい問題もある。

　構想によると、建設中の新東名、新名神の中央分離帯や車線の一部にレールを敷き、コンテナを積んだ無人の列車を自動運転で走らせる。平均速度は９０～１００キロで、東京－大阪を６時間半で結ぶ。トラックによる東京－大阪間の貨物輸送の約７割がこの鉄道に移ることを想定している。

　開業にかかる費用は計１兆７０００億円と試算。これに対し、経済効果は軽油使用量の削減、ＣＯ２削減など３０年間で３兆６０００億円に上ると見込んでいる。ただ、財源については、「公的資金のほかに民間の資金も導入したい」（中村委員長）としているものの具体的なめどは立っていない。
東海道物流新幹線構想の専用サイト
http://www.jrf-rc.co.jp/highway_train/
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3162/20080605jrtw8.jpg

　新東名、新名神高速道路に貨物専用の鉄道を併設して東京－大阪を結ぶ「東海道物流新幹線（ハイウェイトレイン）」の構想を、物流業界の代表や有識者でつくる同構想委員会（委員長・中村英夫武蔵工業大学長）が４日発表した。トラック輸送への過度の依存を転換し省エネと二酸化炭素（ＣＯ２）排出量の削減を目指すとしているが、実現には財源など難しい問題もある。

構想によると、建設中の新東名、新名神の中央分離帯や車線の一部にレールを敷き、コンテナを積んだ無人の列車を自動運転で走らせる。平均速度は９０～１００キロで、東京－大阪を６時間半で結ぶ。トラックによる東京－大阪間の貨物輸送の約７割がこの鉄道に移ることを想定している。

開業にかかる費用は計１兆７０００億円と試算。これに対し、経済効果は軽油使用量の削減、ＣＯ２削減など３０年間で３兆６０００億円に上ると見込んでいる。ただ、財源については、「公的資金のほかに民間の資金も導入したい」（中村委員長）としているものの具体的なめどは立っていない。
東海道物流新幹線構想の専用サイト

http://www.jrf-rc.co.jp/ighway_train/


翻訳を提供致します：


A concept prepared by intellectuals and representatives of the [domestic] shipping/distributing industry was published on the 4th (of June) by the Collaborative Planning Committee (?) headed by the headmaster of Musashi Technical University, Eimi Nakamura; the Toukaidou Distribution Shinkansen (Highway Train) connecting Tokyo - Osaka by establishing a freight-exclusive railway in the "New Toumei" (Tokyo-Nagoya), and "New Meishin" (Nagoya-Kobe) highways. The aim is to change the excessive dependence on shipping by truck, and to reduce energy consumption and carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions, but there are difficult problems with revenue sources to bring the project to fruition.

According to the plan, automatically driven unmanned trains loaded with containers will run in the center median divide and/or part of some lanes of the now under construction New Toumei and New Meishin expressways. The Tokyo - Osaka connection can be covered in about six-and-a-half hours at a speed of 90-100km/h. It's about 70% of the time freight shipping takes by truck when you suppose the freight is moved to this train.

A rough estimate puts the cost of opening this line at ￥1,700,000,000,000. To counter this, the economic effect of reductions in oil consumption and CO2 over a 30 year period will amass a savings of ￥3,600,000,000,000. However, concerning revenue sources, it stands as "I would like to introduce private-sector capital on top of other public capital" (- Committee Chair Nakamura), and as such, a concrete prospect hasn't been solidified.

Dedicated site for the Toukaidou Distribution Shinkansen Plan;
http://www.jrf-rc.co.jp/ighway_train/
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3162/20080605jrtw8.jpg

a highway train isn't it like putting the railway in the middle of the median of the freeway? will they be using overhead wires or something?

its funny how the drawing the railbed will be with grass is that possible for a fast Rail Frieght Corridor or is it not possible

This is a plan that probably only will be build if they can find enough private capital. But with increasing fuel prices it could be become profitable earlier then we think even with the astronomical building costs that are mentioned in the article.

And Songoten2554, from the picture it looks like they're going to use a 3rd rail and no overhead wires. And they can always lay artificial grass between the tracks, real grass is not very practical of course. But I don't think we should draw to many conclusions from this first picture.

I rode the new Fukutoshin line a couple of hours ago :) The Shibuya station is quite big, but the "underground UFO" concept by Tadao Ando is a bit disappointing in my opinion, I guess I was expecting something more. Anyway I still have to check out the whole line with my camera, I may change my mind.

how can the Highway Train be Third rail if almost of all japan trains are on overhead wires? that doesn't make sense to me?

also in other news and a great news i might add.

http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=4859

the new Tokyo new metro line has opened this is exciting times the new AGT train opened the Nippion Liner and now the new tokyo metro line opened in the same year and not only that the new subway for Yokohama has opened as well.

i got to say tokyo has got it lucky here in Miami Florida we aren't so lucky like in Tokyo is and our metrorail is in dire need of a great Expansion but i wonder when will it happen?

The first video of Fukutoshin Line, shot by some fan (not me :) )
L34egh5js1w

By the way, there are already cab ride videos of Nippori-Toneri Liner on line. Looks like they've got nice view.
Machi Log (http://machi-log.jp/st/feature/toneri/index.html) Click red buttons of Vol.1 to 3.

the new Tokyo new metro line has opened this is exciting times the new AGT train opened the Nippion Liner and now the new tokyo metro line opened in the same year and not only that the new subway for Yokohama has opened as well.

This really is the good news. The bad news is the fact the Fukutoshin Line is very likely to be the last subway line of Tokyo.

how can the Highway Train be Third rail if almost of all japan trains are on overhead wires? that doesn't make sense to me?
It's going to be be a completely separate system with automatic unmanned vehicles that's not connected with the rest of the railway system, just like the Shinkansen. So they can use any technology that they think is more practical for a Highway Train.

And since we don't know anything about the power and propulsion system (only that it's not going to be diesel) they could use something completely new, like maglev propulsion technology combined with regular rail. But again we've only seen 1 picture, we can't draw too many conclusions out of it.

how can the Highway Train be Third rail if almost of all japan trains are on overhead wires? that doesn't make sense to me?

It's freight; it doesn't need to be compatible with other lines. In fact, there is an argument that this is very deliberate to avoid having what happened to the Musashino Line (which was originally a freight by-pass for Tokyo that got converted to passenger rail as the region grew) also happen to this new line; an unlikely concern since Japan is now shrinking.

TOKYO —
More than 80 years after Tokyo’s first subway line opened between Asakusa and Ueno, the city gets another subway line, as Tokyo Metro opens the Fukutoshin line on Saturday. First planned back in 1985, the Fukutoshin line will travel 8.9 kilometers from Ikebukuro to Shibuya, with six stations in between. However, the line will connect to the Tobu Tojo line via Wakoshi, and the Seibu Yurakucho and Ikebukuro lines via Kitake-mukaihara. Through service is planned with the Tokyu Toyoko line at Shibuya for 2012, completing a broad rail network linking southwestern Saitama with central Tokyo and Yokohama.

Being promoted under the dubious slogan of “Subways that harmonize with towns and are loved by people along the line,” the Fukutoshin (the name means subcenter) is the ninth subway line to be operated by Tokyo Metro Co Ltd, which carries 5.9 million passengers a day along 195.1 kilometers of track via 179 stations. By comparison, the city’s other subway system, the metropolitan government-run Toei network transports 2.03 million passengers daily and has 109 kilometers of track and 106 stations on its four lines.

The construction of the Fukutoshin line was decided back in 1985, said Tatsuya Edakubo, a spokesman for Tokyo Metro. “It was planned by the central government’s Council for Transportation Policy and construction began in 2001.” Up until recently, it was referred to as Line No. 13. “This time, we decided on the name of the line within the company by asking employees for suggestions. In prior cases, we sometimes carried out a public campaign to select the name,” said Edakubo.

Fukutoshin will be the last line that Tokyo Metro will open, he said, because the Council for Transportation Policy has held review meetings every five years for the past few decades and believes the city is now fairly well covered by subway lines. Toei, on the other hand, is planning to add to the Mita and Oedo lines by 2015.

For Tokyo Metro, the opening of the Fukutoshin line ends an 80-year journey. Tokyo’s first subway opened on Dec 30, 1927, between Asakusa and Ueno (now part of the Ginza line) by the government. The Teito Rapid Transit Authority was established in 1941 and since then, it has overseen the extension of the Ginza line, and the construction of seven other lines (Marunouchi, Hibiya, Tozai, Chiyoda, Yurakucho, Hanzomon and Namboku). In 2004, the authority was transformed into a special company called Tokyo Metro, its first step toward privatization.

Building a new subway line is not cheap when you consider how deep some stations are. The deepest station on the Fukutoshin line is Higashi-Shinjuku at 35 meters (Roppongi on the Oedo line is Tokyo’s deepest station at 42.3 meters). Construction can cost up to 247,000 million yen per kilometer. Most of the civil engineering costs (tunnels and infrastructure) on the Fukutoshin line are being subsidized by the national and Tokyo metropolitan government’s road-use revenue.

When a new line is planned, the first step is deciding where the stations will be. “The locations are part of the council’s plan, although each ward office has a say,” explained Edakubo. “The same applies to the name of the station.” Before construction can begin, the area is surveyed for historical relics. This is normal procedure in Japan at all building sites in accordance with the Law for the Protection of Cultural Properties. The area near Zoshigaya Station, for example, has turned up relics dating back hundreds of years, among them sake containers and ceramic pots and containers.

Six stations beneath Meiji-dori

Six of the stations along the Fukutoshin line lie beneath Meiji-dori, which will ease traffic congestion on that artery, and be particularly convenient if Tokyo is successful in its 2016 Olympic bid, since many events will be held in that area. From Shibuya, the line passes through Meiji-jingumae, Kita-sando, Shinjuku-sanchome, Higashi-shinjuku, Nishi-waseda and Zoshigaya before reaching Ikebukuro.

“Trains will run every three minutes, 35 seconds during rush hours, and every five minutes at other times,” said Edakubo. Rush hour congestion remains a big headache for commuters. “We can only estimate how many passengers will use the Fukutoshin line. Currently, our most congested line is the Tozai line. On the Fukutoshin line, trains will have ten cars and eight when it becomes the through service with the Toyoko line from Shibuya. That’s because some of the stations on the Toyoko line can only accommodate eight cars. With our other lines, all have ten cars, except for the Ginza line which has only six and the Hibiya line with eight because their platforms are shorter.”

As for women’s only cars, which are already operated on the Hibiya, Tozai, Chiyoda, Yurakucho and Hanzomon lines, Edakubo said, “Eventually we will have women’s only cars on the Fukutoshin line, but not right away. We don’t know which cars they will be yet because when we have through services, we have to accommodate other rail companies and their policy on the issue.”

The through service with other subway and rail companies is one of one of the most efficient features of Tokyo’s subway. The subways were initially planned to replace the streetcar network, and passengers traveling into the center of Tokyo from the suburbs had to change trains at terminal stations. To ease congestion, through-services were created, the first one being on the Hibiya line just prior to the Olympic Games in 1964. Commuting in the Kanto region became even more hassle-free last year with the introduction of PASMO, an IC card that can be used on most private rail companies, subways and buses.

With the decision not to build any more lines, Edakubo said Tokyo Metro will concentrate on improving its facilities and new businesses, such as real estate and IT. All stations on the Fukutoshin line will offer wireless LAN services, as well as barrier-free facilities and Braille vending machines. The platforms have half-height platform doors to prevent people accidentally falling off platforms due to overcrowding (and suicides). The ceilings on the Fukutoshin are much higher than at other stations. Shinjuku-sanchome has a mezzanine floor overlooking the platform. At Ikebukuro, Tokyo Metro plans to open another Echika-type complex similar to the one at Omotesando, said Edakubo.

For anyone interested in the details of how a subway is constructed, the Fukutoshin Line Construction Office has built an Exhibition Hall at Shinjuku-sanchome Station. Exhibits include a diorama of the Fukutoshin line, construction machinery models and explanations of how tunneling is done and what happens to all the soil and slurry dug up.

http://www.tokyometro.jp/fukutoshin/

fukutoshin line shibuya station

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/1792/080614metrohukutoshinkedy3.jpg

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7677/080614metrohukutoshinkesl1.jpg

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7844/080614metrohukutoshinkewk6.jpg

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2857/080614metrohukutoshinzoem3.jpg

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9521/080614metrohukutoshinshuv2.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4329/080614metrohukutoshinkewn4.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2600/080614metrohukutoshinkeag8.jpg
A pipe for cooling is buried.Glass fiber is kneaded into concrete.
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7224/080614metrohukutoshinkefg5.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5203/080614metrohukutoshinkent6.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3608/080614metrohukutoshinketq1.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7116/080614metrohukutoshin09cw4.jpg
It is an open ceiling though it is an underground.
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2144/080614metrohukutoshin06oo9.jpg
Air flows to every corner by dome-shaped.
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5408/080614metrohukutoshin07oe8.jpg
natural ventilation system
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5593/080614metrohukutoshinkewd8.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9104/080614metrohukutoshintort0.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1865/080614metrohukutoshin10lq2.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1433/080614metrohukutoshin02ft0.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2174/080614metrohukutoshinshnc5.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6866/080614metrohukutoshinshyz2.jpg

WCNJ2GA87lw

metro map
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/6310/tokyometromapno7.jpg

wow, thanks!

i heard that the new metro line offers express service how cool is that.

guys and girls do you feel about this new metro being the last one from Tokyo Metro is it good or bad?

Yeeey!! The new tokyo metro line is here!! Nice!! ^__^
If you want to go shopping this line is perfect, Ikebukuro, shinjuku and shibuya in a row is just perfect!!

I found that Tamori-san did one of his TV programs from the new Tokyo Metro Line, here are the Youtube Links if you want to watch them:

Part 1:
9W4RLw2NTlU

Part 2:
2LvtaNUkBy4

Part 3:
4mBgjogbDpg

See you!! ^_^

i heard that the new metro line offers express service how cool is that.

guys and girls do you feel about this new metro being the last one from Tokyo Metro is it good or bad?

Tokyo has the two subway companies. The other one (Toei) still has some plans of new lines. Don't worry.


If you want to go shopping this line is perfect, Ikebukuro, shinjuku and shibuya in a row is just perfect!!



Besides, Omotesando (Harajuku) is available.

rare pics of Fastech 360 interior
exterior
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/ext/01.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/ext/02.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/ext/04.jpg

http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/ext/09.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/ext/07.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/ext/11.jpg


Interior. (designed by Neumeister)
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/shop/01.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/shop/02.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/toilet/01.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/car7/04.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/car7/07.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/car6/06.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/car6/09.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/car6/08.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/car6/12.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/car6/13.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/car6/14.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/car5/11.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/car5/03.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/car3/02.jpg
http://www62.tok2.com/home/tsubame787/seat_e954/car2/04.jpg

Hey guys, thanks for the pictures :okay:

i heard that the new metro line offers express service how cool is that.

It is the first line of Tokyo Metro to run express service. The only other Tokyo Metro line to run anything comparable is the Touzai Line's rapid service in eastern leg of the line.

It isn't the first express service though; the Toei Shinjuku Subway line also runs an express service on top of its local service. Among the non-loop/non-'U'ey lines, Toei Shinjuku is among some of the longest routes.

However, the Fukutoshin Line's express service is indeed an essential component of the service; it competes not only with the Yamanote Line, but also the Saikyou Line, which stops only at Ikebukuro, Shinjuku, and Shibuya along the Fukutoshin Line's "overlapping" portion. The through-service on Toubu's Toujou Line will also have it competing with the Saikyou Line's through-service on the Kawagoe Line, as the Toubu Toujou Line runs through Kawagoe-shi as well, also with express levels of service.

In 2012 when it runs through on the Toukyuu Touyoko Line (and the Minatomirai Line), the Fukutoshin Line will then also be competing with the Shounan-Shinjuku Line. The Touyoko Line's Limited Express service from Yokohama and through Ikebukuro would actually make one less stop than the Shounan-Shinjuku Line, including a shared stop at Mushashi-Kosugi in addition to Yokohama, Shibuya, and Ikebukuro (and Shinjuku-san-choume although technically a different station from Shinjuku station proper), perhaps giving it a competitive edge. The stations between Musashi-Kosugi (which will be serviced by the Shounan-Shinjuku Line starting next year) and Shibuya would be Nishi-Ooi, Oosaki, and Ebisu on the Shounan-Shinjuku Line, while the Touyoko Line's would be Jiyuu-ga-oka and Naka-Meguro. The Rapid version of the Shounan-Shinjuku Line would make fewer stops than the Touyoko Limited Express, but with poorer frequency than Touyoko's Limited Express. It will be an interesting competitive environment.

Toukyuu can't really compete with those heading further south from Yokohama though; they will surely be taking JR.

So that express service is critical for the line to have any chance of being competitive in its corridor; it is arguably the most lucrative railway corridor in the world.

I rode the new Fukutoshin line a couple of hours ago :) The Shibuya station is quite big, but the "underground UFO" concept by Tadao Ando is a bit disappointing in my opinion, I guess I was expecting something more. Anyway I still have to check out the whole line with my camera, I may change my mind.

I agree with this, but there were some things that I found special about it, like the fare gate area being open to the outdoors, I found this to be a rather striking difference, and I am impressed that this was managed to be done in an area of town as cramped for space as Shibuya.

The station seems to still be under construction; I noticed that the part just north of the bus terminal area (directly underneath the Ginza Line) is still unfinished by a fair margin. I believe that this will become open-air later.

However, you can tell that there are still some deep divides between civil and architectural "territory" with this project; Once you cross below the faregate level, except for the clear-story space, the station reverts to a rather typical atmosphere but with some improved navigation standards.

I believe that Ando's scope was restricted in a manner similar to what it was on the Midtown Project, but I am not sure if that is true; compared to Omotesandou Hills, another one of Ando's places, which I absolutely adore, Shibuya is not delivering comparable quality below the fare gate level.

That said, I want to see the station when it is finished, but unfortunately I will be out of the country by the time that happens.

As for the "true" completion of the station, that won't happen until 2012 anyway, when they take out that concrete wall at the south side. The area behind that wall is already hollowed out and is a massive mess of scaffolding based on a photo I saw of it over a year ago.

I noticed on the way to work today that the Fukutoshin Line seems to be having some problems coping with its first test in rush hour; the operators (Seibu and Tokyo Metro in particular) may have underestimated demand and not scheduled enough trains to run through it frequently enough, as it was suffering from delays caused by crowding on the Seibu Yuurakuchou Line, the Metro Yuurakuchou Line, and the Fukutoshin Line; Siebu Ikebukuro Line was also affected, but not to the same degree (part of the line west of Nerima is quad-tracked, which is surely helping by significant margins).

oh so for Tokyo Metro its finished expanding but for Toei its still expanding ok.

yup, especially, to be prepared for Tokyo 2016, TOEI are plannning a new subway to bay area (into new Olympic parks in Ariake and Toyosu..)

yup, especially, to be prepared for Tokyo 2016, TOEI are plannning a new subway to bay area (into new Olympic parks in Ariake and Toyosu..)

Aren't Ariake and Toyosu already covered by the Yuurakuchou, Yurikamome, and Rinkai Lines?

In Harumi, where the Olympic main stadium is to be built, there's no subway station now. Thus it is widely said the Tokyo metropolitan government is plannning to construct two new subway lines to Harumi and Toyosu from Tokyo Station and from Kachidoki Station of Oedo Line. New LRT and BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) are also under considerartion.
(Besides, Yurikamome Skytrain will be extended to Kachidoki.)

(Besides, Yurikamome Skytrain will be extended to Kachidoki.)

Doesn't it go sorta "around" Kachidoki (like a Kachidoki by-pass :lol:) right now?
The Yurikamome is by far the most indirect line in all of Tokyo (and there is stiff competition actually, so it is quite a feat), and a Kachidoki extension will make this even more so - nobody will use this thing because it cannot get anywhere in a timely manner :ohno:. Most mismanaged planning of a rail alignment I can think of (would have been much smarter to do a series of branch lines off of a straighter trunk line).

Fukutoshin Line is still suffering scheduling problems.

btw, public comfort stations of Fukutoshin Line.
http://www.enjoytokyo.jp/img_bl/hana-chan/150134_PC_L.jpg
http://www.enjoytokyo.jp/img_bl/hana-chan/150140_PC_L.jpg?Jun_2%2C_2008_7%3A11%3A14_PM
http://www.enjoytokyo.jp/img_bl/hana-chan/150135_PC_L.jpg
http://www.enjoytokyo.jp/img_bl/hana-chan/150137_PC_L.jpg
and more pics of new Shibuya Stn of Fukutoshin Line
http://yaplog.jp/cv/erisama/img/1377/img20080614_6_p.jpg
http://yaplog.jp/cv/erisama/img/1377/img20080614_7_p.jpg
http://yaplog.jp/cv/erisama/img/1377/img20080614_1_p.jpg
http://yaplog.jp/cv/erisama/img/1377/img20080614_8_p.jpg

Fukutoshin Line is still suffering scheduling problems.

I'm not surprised; the Kotake-Mukaihara junction was a problem waiting to happen. The Fukutoshin Line's problems are draggin Yuurakuchou Line along with it.

In order for the Fukutoshin Line to run on schedule, it is very dependent on other lines; The Seibu Ikebukuro/Yuurakuchou Line(s), the Toubu Toujou Line, and the Metro Yuurakuchou Line all need to be working like clockwork for the Fukutoshin Line to stay on schedule; the Fukutoshin Line is more vulnerable to problems than the Yuurakuchou Line because it also offers express in addition to local service (Yuurakuchou Line is local only).

Kotake-Mukaihara is easily a candidate for the most complicated interlining operation in the Tokyo network because it is a 4-way interlined junction, which is very rare.

Nihon no densha wa sugoiiiiii... Dai sukiiiiiii...

I have a random question...

What's the total system length of Greater Tokyo's current urban rail network? This includes heavy rail (subway), light rail, monorail, and commuter rail -- EVERY form of rail. And once all the planned expansion projects are completed, what will be the length of the system?

My take (before Fukutoshin/Nippori-Toneri/Yokohama Green) was something like this (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=13215168&postcount=60), but others may calculate it differently.