I seen this poll in the United States section...so i was wondering which city you think once was hopeless...now is making the best turnaround in the South?

It most definatley has to be the phoenix city Atlanta, after being destroyed after the civil war now look at it today.

Baltimore maybe--things are looking up for the city. Washington DC is another example...the city has come a long, long way since the mid 80's.

Atlanta in the 70's through 80's was probably looking pretty shabby - considering the explosive growth occuring in the suburbs (& still occuring). New Orleans is always a turn around city every year, everyone complains about the crime & economics - yet everyone wants to visit the city (though still not live there). But Chattanooga is still the biggest turn around city - an economic & environmental wasteland 30 years ago, now home to a prosperous downtown.

Baltimore maybe--things are looking up for the city. Washington DC is another example...the city has come a long, long way since the mid 80's.
Other forumers probably knew I was gonna say this but im gonna say it - Is baltimore considered the south? If you want to go by history ya most people in Maryland support the confederacy, but it was still a union state. I dont think washington DC is. it is neutral, geographically it is more northern. I mean if you say that than the southeast is this gigantic landmass and the northeast is a small finger pointing NE.

You know - this is such an old arguement - so fuck it... If he wants to cite Baltimore & Washington as southern, then let him.

Asheville! That's right, Asheville.

Our descent began with the stock market crash of 1929, in which this city went, overnight, from being one of the most fashionable resort towns in the world to the city that held the most per capita debt in America. The boom of the Roaring '20's, in which the majority of our magnificent collection of art deco buildings and several amazing residential buildings were constructed, ground to a halt, and the tallest building in town, the neo-gothic Jackson Building became a popular place for despondent financiers to commit suicide by jumping from the top floor gallery.

Rather than default on its civic debts, Asheville chose to repay what it owed, a task it didn't complete until the 70's. During those fifty years of paying our debts, Asheville couldn't afford any large-scale urban renewal projects, and thus our splendid downtown was preserved intact.

Downtown, even as beautiful as it was, couldn't compete with the malls and shopping centers rising on the outskirts of town. Most of the large stores downtown moved out, and all the grand hotels were converted to low-income housing for senior citizens. By the 1980's, the vacancy rate downtown stood at 90%, and what few businesses were left consisted mainly of porn emporiums, bars, and other unsavory places. The art deco movie theater that now houses our Fine Arts Theatre was at the time a porn theater, in fact.

In the late 80's and early 90's a movement began to rebuild downtown. One of the catalysts was a developer's plan to demolish about half of downtown Asheville and replace it with a shopping mall. The newspaper supported the idea, as did the city government, but a group of concerned citizens lined off the proposed construction site with crime scene tape and began conducting tours of the magnificent architecture that would be lost, and in the end managed to sway opinions.

Downtown began to come back to life. Artists moved in first, then a few practical businesses, and later, upscale boutiques, upscale galleries, and even more practical stores. The people moved in too, such that the census tract that includes downtown Asheville was the tract that showed the most growth in the city during the last census, beating out the city's suburbs, gated golf communities, and exclusive subdivisions.

Today, downtown is a victim of its own success. Many condoes downtown are owned by "summer people" who only used their downtown residences as occasional getaways. Rents have risen to the point that the very artists who colonized the area are moving down to the River District, a defunct Victorian industrial area along the French Broad River. However, three condo projects, one of which is nearly complete, will add more than 150 new residences to downtown in the next two years, and one of the projects is especially targeted toward downtown workers, with rents of less than $500 a month. There are clothing, furniture, and grocery stores downtown and all in all, it's a very practical district. There's lots for tourists there, but all that a resident would need too, and that's rare these days. It's still the seat of our arts economy, despite the high rents, and our artists pump more than $62 million into our area every year.

Vacancy rates these days downtown are less than 10%, and there are only a handful of historic buildings still awaiting renovation. It's almost like being on the other side of the mirror from the bad old days of the 70's and 80's.

^ Yep, Asheville would be a consideration too - forgot about that one but it was pretty dead a few decades ago.

I vote Norfolk. It went from tumbleweeds downtown 7 years ago to having one of the top booming downtowns in the country and has been featured numerous times in Planning Magazine for its urban renaissance. It has even received awards from the American Planning Association. Lots of buzz about that place.

Asheville, Chattanooga, Norfolk, DC, Atlanta, are a few that pop into my head.

I'll go by Mason-Dixon Line convention, and I agree, DC, Balt., ATL, and Norfolk definitely.

I don't think DC gets enough credit in this respect, it may not have increased in population and while it's crime has gone down significantly, it's still not good, it is a lot more vibrant and more a buzz then it has been in a long time.

10 years from now...you'll all be saying New Orleans.

Not to make a broken record out of this thread, but I think all of the cities mentioned so far have been excellent candidates.

How about Miami? Not that it doesn't have problems, but it's a very different place than it was in the '80s. I certainly have a better image of it now than I did when I saw "Scarface". :)

no southern city has had a HORRID decline in the last 100 years. key word CITY

Not to make a broken record out of this thread, but I think all of the cities mentioned so far have been excellent candidates.

How about Miami? Not that it doesn't have problems, but it's a very different place than it was in the '80s. I certainly have a better image of it now than I did when I saw "Scarface". :)

You know you're right. At one time Miami was in pretty bad shape. High crime, bad economics due to its small city limits and even South Beach was neglected and run down. In fact I went to Miami for the first time @ '93 and I remember S Beach had just begun its comeback but you could get into any bar with no cover. Its hard to even imagine any of that today.

Jacksonville. It has suffered from decline, industrial pollution, bad schools and political corruption and was in the dumps from around 1940 - the mid 90's. Things have only changed recently and many still aren't aware of its strides.

I can give a shout out to J'ville, too. I agree that it was shackled by high crime, bad schools, racial strife and an ongoing (and highly annoying) noxious stench from the decades of unregulated (or poorly regulated) mills that belched their exhausts into the air. The city's infrastructure was bad, too. Bad bus system (bad even by smaller Southern city standard's), poorly built roads and freeways and neighborhoods that weren't being cared for.

Now, the freeways are being rebuilt, bus service has improved, there's a charming little people mover downtown, the St. John's is more appealing, the air isn't as suffocating as before, schools are much better and crime is declining.

And Jax is growing.

Raleigh has made significant changes worth mentioning, though they may pale in comparison to every other city mentioned on the forum.
The success of Glennwood South and the mini construction boom its having.

Durham is turning itself around in the right direction inspite of the "ghetto" reputation it has. Brightleaf Square and ninth street still continues to breathe life into the core.

Right now I would say Memphis followed by Raleigh and Chattanooga.

Cities like Atlanta and Jacksonville have turned around along time ago.

Chattanooga by far

Jacksonville, Fla is the winner by far

Good candidates here, but I'd have to give it to Norfolk...

I agree on Jacksonville, Florida. That city has even transformed big time in positive ways even in just the last 10 years.

Huntsville, Alabama is one that is often overlooked because of it's relatively small size compared to other Southern metros. Huntsville wasn't really ever up then down but it went from a small Tennessee Valley city of around 25,000 in the mid 60s to a powerhouse high tech little dynamo of about 165,000 with a metro pop. of 360,000 in less than 40 years. Huntsville's median per capita income is 2nd only to Atlanta in the South.

Comeback from how far back in time? If it's in the past 20 years, then certain cities mentioned probably weren't doing that badly. Past 20 years, I'd probably say Memphis is right up there in terms of comeback in a short amount of time. If you go back fifty-sixty years, then Atlanta would probably be farther up.

Chattanooga, without question. The place used to be looked upon with about as much appeal as a toxic waste dump, which it almost was. Today it is thriving and booming like a mofo.

Chattanooga, definately.

I'm giving Greenville (http://www.greatergreenville.com/development/dt_rev.asp) a nod on this one.

Okay, most people here seem to be nominating their hometowns. That's why I don't like these sorts of threads. The answers are always predictable.

I've seen both of my "hometown"s mentioned and I disagree with them both.

Asheville's downtown sunk pretty far in the 70s, but the city always had the tourist destination thing going for it so nobody ever counted it as lost.

Raleigh as a whole never really fell into a state of decline. It was just a sleepy southern city until exponential suburban growth started back in the 1970s. Downtown was all but ignored for a few decades, and I really can't say that it's "turned around" yet.

If Maryland were part of the South, I'd go along with Baltimore, but it isn't... so I really don't know. Norfolk, maybe? But then again I know almost nothing about Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, and Texas.

Thinking of cities whose image or identity has been transformed in the past 20 to 30 years:
Chattanooga - though it had largely turned aroud in the early 80's when I went as a youth, it is very much now a tourist magnet compared to it's industrial past
Charlotte - this goes without saying, I'm not even a 'lover' of the city, but the only interesting things going on in Charlotte 20 to 30 years ago were around SouthPark.
Asheville - I doubt most young people 20 years ago REALLY wanted to live in Asheville, I can recall friends that dreaded living or visiting there. It's now one of the 'hippest' cities of the south
Huntsville - I know very little of this town from the past, but certainly the majority of the high tech firms weren't around in the 1970's. It's now a high tech center.
As for other cities, I might also guess Memphis, Fort Worth & Nashville would also deserve a nod for redeveloping their downtowns into a tourist draw.

But my overall pick would be for Asheville - which has redeveloped the image for the whole city in the past 30 years.

Good candidates here, but I'd have to give it to Norfolk...You are correct my friend.

Chattanooga, without question. The place used to be looked upon with about as much appeal as a toxic waste dump, which it almost was. Today it is thriving and booming like a mofo.

Chattanooga, definately.

yup.

-

Just to be real for a moment, some might say these cities are having a turnaround, but away from the forum they might have the same misconceptions.

Chattanooga would be my pick, I love visiting there, its downtown area is very unique. :)

You might also want to consider Wilmington, NC since the arrival of I-40 around 1989. There has been explosive growth there since then. Lots of wealthy retirees, second home owners and young professionals. Norfolk-Va. Beach should be at the top and so should Charleston since the late 1980's. Perhaps the most remarkable turnaround is central Miami and Miami Beach. It changed not only its image of poor immigrants and wealthy retirees to young and hip but also has had some of the highest capital investment in the country. Honorable Mentions to Asheville and Richmond. Richmond is still under development so to speak.

I agree with WesternGulf, I don't know how many cities have truly undergone a significant change in image, there are lots of small towns who have I think, but of the larger ones, I think ATL and Miami probably have done the best with this.

I think Richmond and Norfolk (I guess Va Beach too) are making major turnarounds...

You know - this is such an old arguement - so fuck it... If he wants to cite Baltimore & Washington as southern, then let him.

Agreed.

Just plain geographical ignorance.

But Chattanooga is still the biggest turn around city - an economic & environmental wasteland 30 years ago, now home to a prosperous downtown.
Oddly enough, that was the first one I thought of, too.

It most definatley has to be the phoenix city Atlanta, after being destroyed after the civil war now look at it today.

I like to think that Phoenix City was better before the yankees burned it down. No offence to anyone from Phoenix City that may read this, but I don't think anyone there has a computer.

Other forumers probably knew I was gonna say this but im gonna say it - Is baltimore considered the south? If you want to go by history ya most people in Maryland support the confederacy, but it was still a union state. I dont think washington DC is. it is neutral, geographically it is more northern. I mean if you say that than the southeast is this gigantic landmass and the northeast is a small finger pointing NE.
The Mason/Dixon line actually ran through Maryland. I actually believe that Baltimore was on the northern sector.

No, the Mason-Dixon line is the border between Maryland and Pennsylvania

http://www.ddc2000.com/products/samples/ss2kwebdemo/grade5/support/data/unit53/01images/53i10087.jpg

http://www.jabberwocky.com/photo/pcd1045/mason-dixon-line-small.jpg

I think the best city turnaround would be when Atlanta turns around towards Alabama & gives Birmingham the middle finger.

That's true my region is under the mason-dixon line but it's considered either northeastern or mid-atlantic!

Jacksonville. It has suffered from decline, industrial pollution, bad schools and political corruption and was in the dumps from around 1940 - the mid 90's. Things have only changed recently and many still aren't aware of its strides.

Omigod, I would rate Jacksonville as the lowest performer as a city, and the city most evident at sliding into oblivion. During WWII Jax was a thriving city with lots of action and activity, fun times to be had by all. But starting in the late 1970s religious fanatics took over the city, and it has barely moved forward in 50 years. It looks like a modern city on the surface, but the people are small-time apathetic bores!

How can Atlanta make a "turn around" when it was never faced in the wrong direction? :nuts: It's been a booming city since the end of the Civil War!!

New Orleans has had slight declines here and there, but I would hardly say it was ever in a real decline. Even after the hurricane, it will bounce back. The spirit is there. Not much to turn around, when you think of the long-time immense appeal of the city!

Jacksonville has been in decline since after WWII. When it "turns around" I'll be in my grave. Believe me, I lived there 16 years and saw firsthand how a city can get worse and worse and worse as the years go by~SAD. Religious fanatics commandeered the city in the 1980s and burned the city's potential to ashes. For someone to say it has made a turnaround, I must stare in disbelief .

I would think the obvious choice is Orlando. A sleepy town until Disney, and by the 1970s it was making tremendous strides to add amenities, and lots of appeal. Orlando is a thriving metropolitan urban center that draws 100s of thousands of tourists A WEEK! When you're in Orlando it feels like you're at one of the earth's crossroads. As international as you can get, a place where almost everyone wants to go at least once. When you're in Orlando there's a terrific energy in the air! Very very pleasant and I have vacationed there many many many times:) An earth shaking turnaround.

^^ However, if you visit its suburbs or Orlando, you'll see a lot of crappy housing (unacceptably crappy; tiny 1-room concrete block homes). With so many of the employed taking minimum wage jobs in hotels, restaurants, and the service sector, the quality of life for many residents is poor.

I also have to give brief mention of my own city in this thread. Oklahoma City enacted the Metropolitan Area Projects in the late 90s, and since has spurred a revival in interest in downtown. The Bricktown Canal turned an abandoned warehouse district downtown into a lively, profitable, and the fastest growing part of our city. Two 10-story hotels are under construction in Bricktown currently (height regulations). The interest in Bricktown has encouraged the entire downtown area, with the help of new art museum and library.

Lancetop, the change has taken place just in the past 8 or so years. If you haven't been here during that time frame, then you've missed an incredible transformation. I won't call them a catalyst but after we were awarded the Jaguars, everything has changed for the better.

I think the best city turnaround would be when Atlanta turns around towards Alabama & gives Birmingham the middle finger.

lmao

This reminds of the fact that all but a select few southern cities DID experience a center city decline at some point in the last 40 years given the development popular patterns in this country during that time.

Altho it is only in the early to middle stages of a turnaround, I would nominate Columbus GA as a real contender. The economy is changing from low wage/textile to white collar/insurance (AFLAC), banking (Synovus), hightech (TSYS). The military (always a factor) is getting a boost from BRAC.
The rather ragged DT is in the middle of a real comeback with focus on education (CSU, Troy, CVCC), entertainment (Rivercenter, Springer, new
theater/drama facility, whitewater), residential (Eagle & Phenix Condos, Flowers Bldg) and commercial (new Synovus Center, TSYS campus)). I would say that in 5-10 years Columbus will be recognized as holding the position presently enjoyed by Chattanooga -- a real comeback river city. Tho certainly not as dramatic as some of the larger cities discussed so far, from a relative perspective (and considering being seriously shortchanged in the transportation area to date) I think that Columbus is putting on a fairly impressive performance with (hopefully) more to come!