Well Europe has a historical tradition that is possibly impossible to match.But boy did i see some horrible suburbs in the outskirts of many major cities.I.e badly planned,crime,grafitti etc....The type of suburbs of which i have never seen in Canada.So which major capital do you think has more of these ugly suburbs?

London and Moscow did it for me.Madrid had some pretty ugly suburbs as well.

Some of the suburbs of Naples aren't too nice either. Mind you in a lot of the big cities were you find your very worst, you also find your very best.

London has very nice suburbs, its inner city (the borders of the central districts) is the one that needs smartening up imo, especially south London.

Paris!!!

Léon has awful suburbs, but a great city centre. Same goes for Rouen and London.
Geneva is the only very big European city I've been to where all the suburbs looked presentable.

Im sure there are a few that are dodgy

GLASGOW!!!!!!!!

Don't get me wrong Europes cities are generally incredible.Be it Paris,Rome,Madrid,London etc.....But many of these have one thing in common.Some very ugly suburbs that have nothing to do with the cities monumental grandeur.I also know that they have some beautiful suburbs on the outskirts as well.

Most suburbs are rather lush. I think you're referring to out-of-town council estates. Now they really suck. :no:

west london.....graffittis make it look like astho its some kinda gang area of new york lol

west london.....graffittis make it look like astho its some kinda gang area of new york lol

I beg your pardon Pujabi paji, tejo ik mint (wait a minute)

We have as bad as gangs, if not far worse gangs than NYC!

Just few of very a very long list:-
- Yardies
- Triads
- Bethnal Green Boys
- Hackney Mafia
- Tamil Tigers
- Chavs
- East London's Finest
- Asian Virus

Et cetra! You see, NYC as well as other cities have thier fair share of crime!

EAST-BERLIN:, Graffiti everywhere, vandalism, drug dealers, homeless people, many outlandish people(Russian,Jugoslavian people), cheap to live, commieblocks.... Don't try it in the evening or in the night, I know what I say. Because I live in East-Berlin.
___________
Elagu Eesti

Amsterdam - Bijlmer... Don't need to say more.

Lisbon has some realy nasty suburbs too

EAST-BERLIN:, Graffiti everywhere, vandalism, drug dealers, homeless people, many outlandish people(Russian,Jugoslavian people), cheap to live, commieblocks.... Don't try it in the evening or in the night, I know what I say. Because I live in East-Berlin.
Eastern Berlin has its share of ugly parts, but it's fairly well kept, ok some spots may be run-down, but it's no big deal, just compare it to 15 years ago. It may feel desolate and the people may not look very invitingly but they are mostly harmless. Just would love to see them learn to use some deodorant from time to time. I dread using buses in the summer, the odours can become almost life-threatening. :dizzy:

Paris suburbs are the same, cheaply built commie blocks from the 50's to the 70's to house poor immigrant workers and people made homeless by the war, logically ghettos start to form and violence errupts

Geneva is the only very big European city I've been to where all the suburbs looked presentable.

Like this (Cite du Lignon) ?
http://wwwedu.ge.ch/co/renard/ft2gb/lignon03.JPG

West London? are you mad, where houses go for £1 mill plus, mmmm yer right

Paris without doubs

Like this (Cite du Lignon) ?
http://wwwedu.ge.ch/co/renard/ft2gb/lignon03.JPG


Dude.THat's ugly.

Paris has some awful suburbs...but I think those you encounter in Amsterdam and some German cities ( Frankfurt,Düsseldorf,Munich) are scond to none!

By the way,have you ever seen the nice "suburbs" that,for instance,Dallas or Los Angeles have?

Actually, I think that in many cases, the suburbs appear uglier than they really are because of the contrast of such much better architecture in the central cores of European cities.

Of cause, there really are some ugly suburbs, especially in the East of Europe, and parts of Southern Europe (hell also Scandinavia) and of cause parts of London, but with the exception of a few cities, I don't think they are as bad as they seem, just a complete contrast to the often amazing architecture of the city center.

But this can be seen anywhere. There is little to prepare you for some of the ugly suburbs in Sydney or New York, just as the shocks of Paris and London's versions.

I hope he's not comparing the "nicely" created, very lush and almost rural like suburbs of the USA and Canada with housing project neighbourhoods in Europe.

Justme,isn't there anything worse that what you have surrounding Frankfurt(Höchst etc)?

Justme,isn't there anything worse that what you have surrounding Frankfurt(Höchst etc)?

Höchst, Offenbach etc certainly are not picture postcard suburbs, but they are hardly the worst you could find. They are simply poorly planned, designed and constructed "working mans" suburbs.

I have seen just as bad (although visually totally different) suburbs in Sydney's west, New York, London, Lisbon, Barcelona, Los Angeles, Houston (where I saw an entire suburb next to the city that appeared deserted and in ruins) and in fact, any major city. To be honest, even small cities around the world can have terrible suburbs, whether we are talking Auckland, Adelaide or Mannheim.

Back to Frankfurt's suburbs, you do have the one's mentioned that have some unpleasantness about them, but you also have some really beautiful suburbs as well. Such as Bad Homburg or Oberursel
http://www.pbase.com/jchambers/image/1962530/large.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/jchambers/image/27628115.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/jchambers/image/27628113.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/jchambers/image/14933316.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/jchambers/image/15080450.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/jchambers/image/15080445.jpg

By the way, even though the surrounds of Höchst can be pretty unattractive, it still has a nice core
http://www.pbase.com/jchambers/image/15080321.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/jchambers/image/15080322.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/jchambers/image/15080318.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/jchambers/image/15080319.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/jchambers/image/15080323.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/jchambers/image/15080315.jpg

Birmingham/West Midlands n the UK has some pretty terrible suburbs and adjoining satelite towns.

do you want to see ugly suburbs for real come to ny city or go to philadelphia ,or miami , what about chicago,los angeles , or in conneticut hartford , brigeport , new haven etc... usa have de worse suburbs in the world.

do you want to see ugly suburbs for real come to ny city or go to philadelphia ,or miami , what about chicago,los angeles , or in conneticut hartford , brigeport , new haven etc... usa have de worse suburbs in the world.

I doubt it, what about Delhi or Palembang or Lagos?

Paris 100%

I go to Orleans every year...sometimes I visit Paris....and there slums are bad...very bad....Worst Ive seen!

Justme,Bad Homburg is surely nice.

Frankfurt has also a reputation (even among Germans)for being a "dull grey city" but it is a city that has very nice areas to live in(for instance, where I lived)

Grüsse aus Madrid!

I want to see this nasty parisian suburbs

I have to say Paris.

But suburbs in London? Please, go to Greenwich, Kingston, Wimbledon, Hampstead, Hendon, Richmond....

Some nasty paris suburbs for you


http://img225.exs.cx/img225/8706/257599812yn.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

http://img41.exs.cx/img41/2118/258713667aj.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

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http://img41.exs.cx/img41/1011/328950601kj.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

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http://img172.exs.cx/img172/3358/328996987eg.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

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URL=http://www.imageshack.us]http://img179.exs.cx/img179/8818/352369005jv.jpg[/URL]

http://img179.exs.cx/img179/9404/marche3ol.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

European suburbs look much more worse than NA suburbs IMO.

Justme,Bad Homburg is surely nice.

Frankfurt has also a reputation (even among Germans)for being a "dull grey city" but it is a city that has very nice areas to live in(for instance, where I lived)

Grüsse aus Madrid!

You are quite right, many of the suburbs are more pleasant to live than the city center which is why so many wealthy people move out - which is incidently common in North America, but not so common in many other cities of Europe, where the wealthy are quite happy (and often the only ones that can afford) to live in the city centers.

Frankfurt does have a dull reputation, and to be frank, it deserves it. It lost most of it's history during the war, and replaced 95% of the buildings with incredibly dull and ugly 1950's monstrosities. It gives the impression that it is a modern city because of the handful of skyscrapers which is quite unique to European cities, but in reality these are so few compared to the mostly unadventurous modern architecture to be found in most of the city.

Let's just say that cities like Valencia and Barcelona may not have the skyscrapers but appear far more modern and cutting edge than Frankfurt - and they also have the stunning historical architecture as well.

Frankfurt had the chance to turn this city into a showcase of modern architecture. It did well by building the skyscrapers, but in reality, this city is technically on par with most "new world" cities due to the lack of history. In fact, many new world cities, even far younger ones have far more historical buildings than Frankfurt. Even Los Angeles or Sydney has grander historical buildings than Frankfurt, yet they still appear far more modern as well.

Frankfurt is simply stuck in some kind of void. It has neither modern nor historical of any great merit, which is why it is considered so dull and bleak by most Germans.

And most locals as well, as it is quite the trend to move out of the city as soon as one can afford it.

Nothing new, just this buildings you can find in Berlin too.
I think in Berlin it is more worse isn't it?
___________
Elagu eesti

European suburbs look much more worse than NA suburbs IMO.

I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but personally I don't agree. There have been posts of some stunning suburbs in Paris by one of the French forumers here, as well as some bad examples like the ones above. But if you look at the ones above, the only thing terrible in most of them are ugly cheap apartment blocks which can be found anywhere in the world. If you look around many of them, they also seem to have quite a lot of area's with houses, and from my memory, those are usually quite beautiful old terraced homes.

America is not without some pretty nasty suburbs as well.
http://www.darkface.pp.se/~kynnie/New%20York/Harlem/1359.jpg
http://www.heimat-erde.de/extrem/detroit/bilder/ko_c02.jpg
http://www.heimat-erde.de/extrem/detroit/bilder/hdollhouse89.jpg
http://www.kittyempire.org/detroitmay04/corktown1.jpg
http://www.kittyempire.org/detroitmay04/corktown2.jpg
http://www.planningpartners.org/images/sprawl.jpg
http://www.theboxtank.com/photos/uncategorized/suburban_sprawl.jpg
http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/photos/000726.cfoa.sprawl1.jpghttp://www.buildinggreen.com/ebn/sum/img/11-4_sprawl.jpghttp://www.urban.org/images/urban_sprawl.jpg
http://www.jeyping.dynip.com/photos/roads/i35e7.jpg
http://www.instant-trout-company.de/tp.jpg
http://www.computer-classics.com/trailer.jpg

Wha? I thought this was about Europe's ugly suburbs?

But suburbs in London? Please, go to Greenwich, Kingston, Wimbledon, Hampstead, Hendon, Richmond....

Yeah, London has some very nice suburbs but don't pretend everywhere is like Richmond or Wimbledon, there are some really crap places in outer London too.

Example
http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/globetown.jpg

But most ugly bits of London are in the inner city, the outer city tends to much much nicer.

Hell even where I used to live in Brentford was really nice for christ sake.

But most ugly bits of London are in the inner city, the outer city tends to much much nicer.

Hell even where I used to live in Brentford was really nice for christ sake.

Feltham is a shithole, I would say that generally the ugly bits are the inner suburbs rather than the outer suburbs. When I think of the Inner city I think of The City, Westminster, Kensington & Chelsea plus small parts of surrounding boroughs.

Boroughs like Newham and Brent are inner suburbia imo.

European suburbs look much more worse than NA suburbs IMO.

Yes, that's true, generally speaking. However, suburbs in Europe are NOT the same thing as suburbs in North America. In fact, a European suburb is more equivalent to an American inner-city, and a European city-centre is more like an American suburb...why?...well because many European suburbs (this doesn't seem to be very much the case in Great Britain and other northern countries) have housing that is less expensive compared to the city-centre. The housing in the city-centre is more in demand or desirable, because it is in proximity to all the central shops, nightlife, restaurants, office/management jobs (in comparison to the factory/working class jobs in the suburbs), monuments, grand urban works/landscaping/parks, prestigeous and/or historical neighborhoods that allow for pleasant/charming urban walks, etc.

In the European suburbs, after WWII, a huge number of commieblocks, cheap and with little need for an architect's unique floor plan or design of any kind, were built to house the flux of immigrants and working class citizens that would not have afforded, much less, fit in the city centres. Well, perhaps this doesn't quite pertain as much to countries like Spain and Portugal who didn't receive anywhere as many immigrants as say the UK, France, Germany or the Netherlands in the 60s, 70s and 80s...but cheap housing was built nonetheless in those countries, for its working class citizens, even if they were not immigrants. And since European city-centres, not all, but many, have strict esthetic and preservation policies, factories, as early as the industrial era, were built outside the city-centre...in what is now the suburbs. Many of the commieblocks built there later were ideally near these factories, where a lot of the working class citizens worked. And many of the offices and headquarters of those factories (like a car or tire factory) were/are in the city, where incidently, many of the higher paying jobs are, and office workers often live in proximity to their homes too.

In the US, the opposite occured. We all know that in most North American cities, middle-class fled to the suburbs. That's where you find the nice, bigger, beautiful homes...in huge contrast to the inner-city neighborhoods and housing. This fleeing has happened too in some European cities, mainly like Great Britain and Scandinavian countries, but in France and Germany too, but even much less. In French suburbs for instance, you can find some VERY nice suburbs, consisting of individual houses, with charming little gardens, within walking distance to the suburb's city centre (each suburbs is essentially its own town, except it is contiguous (attached) to the others). But within a mile you'll come across a different type of French suburb..."la cité"...which basically means the "projects", hard-core ghetto, like an American inner-city ghetto. But generally speaking, most and the worse "projects" of Pars are in the North suburbs and in many East suburbs. In the West and some South suburbs, you have the nicer suburbs, with charming houses and prestigeous appartments, just like if you were in Paris, or better. I'm sure, it's similar in other European suburbs...some look so bad like the Parisian suburb (la Courneuve...which is the Compton or the South Bronx of Paris...the worse of the worse...where French police rarely go in). But NOT all suburbs in Paris or other European cities are like that.

And like someone else said earlier and illustrated, to be honest, most European suburbs (even the ones with projects) are descent compared to most American inner-city neighborhoods, which are often blight to the max, and partly and sadly abondonned. Many European suburbs do form a big contrast to their central-city counterparts that we all know as beautiful and well preserved, grand or charming.

But yes, I agree...SOME European suburbs are very ugly, but there is no direct equivalent to them in most American cities west of the Appalachians.

Worst suburbs are in Paris, Berlin, London and Amsterdam imo....

I've heard Paris has some really nasty suburbs.

All of these cities have beautiful wealthy suburbs as well as miserable run down ghetto-ish ones - especially in the inner cities. It's no use pretending that all London suburbs are as miserable as Hackney nor as beautiful as Hampstead. There are the extremes of glamour and misery and every blander shade between.

But most ugly bits of London are in the inner city, the outer city tends to much much nicer.

Hell even where I used to live in Brentford was really nice for christ sake.

LOL I grew up there. The entire town's a shitehole except for about 2 streets, although since I left there's been a lot of yuppieflats going up. When I was a kid Brentford was just huge housing estates (Haverfield, Brentford Towers, Brent Lea, Syon) and deserted factories... The only 2 decent streets are The Butts and Mafeking Avenue. Its probably all changed though.

I think London has three fairly well-demarcated "rings"...

1 = Pre-Victorian; the extent of London by about 1850, basically the City & West End. Knightsbridge, Kensington, Mayfair, Soho, Belgravia, Bloomsbury. Commercial and top-end residential.

2 = Victorian; the areas built upon in the Victorian era, surrounds the above in a ring. Characteristically small terraced homes that have since been replaced by Post-WWII Council estates due to bombing and slum clearance in many cases. Generally poor, Working Class and with a high immigrant population... Newham, Hackney, Peckham, Brixton, Shepherds Bush, Willesden etc. Just beyond are some Edwardian areas which are much better housing-wise such as Ealing, but I wouldn't class the Edwardian Housing as being a whole separate ring around London as the period was only 15-odd years.

3 = Inter-War... The closest we have to Suburbs. Characterised by 1920's & 30's semi-detatched homes, low-density, several very large LCC estates such as Becontree and St Helier. People generally better-off than in the Victorian ring, but worse off than those in the pre-victorian core.

http://www.dorsetpeoplefirst.co.uk/Forum/Images/house5.jpg

Personally I think London's suburbs, the 1930's semis and LCC estates, are ugly as sin simply through their repetition. They aren't unpleasant for the residents with lots of green spaces and low density, but they are a waste of land and boring. I can see what the planners were trying to achieve though, the people moving out from Victorian Slums to the new LCC estates and suburbs of semis must have been overjoyed.

Personally my favourite urban environment in London is the Georgian terraces built in the first half of the 19th century. I think they are on the most human scale and are well laid-out:

http://www.woosterstock.co.uk/customerPages/images/grovela51ft.jpg

Even some of the roughest European suburbs could still look okay if it wasn't for the 60's commie blocks. Demolish all those and they begin to look presentable, thankfully in Britain they're starting to be demolished.

A little off topic, but I've always wondered wether American suburbs have town centres like British ones do?

Even some of the roughest European suburbs could still look okay if it wasn't for the 60's commie blocks. Demolish all those and they begin to look presentable, thankfully in Britain they're starting to be demolished.

A little off topic, but I've always wondered wether American suburbs have town centres like British ones do?

Only 2% or so suburbs have town centers.

Nearly every suburb in New England has a town center; the Common is a fundamental part of almost every town and village in Mass, New Hampshire, CT, etc. Town centers are also quite common in New York, particularly Upstate (around Albany, for example). However, outside of New England and New York, very few places have town centers.

These are a few pics from the Suburbs where i live in 'Low Fell' Gateshead, North East England, No's 2 and 12 are pics of the centre with shops, restaurants, bars, banks etc

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/328d8fd6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/7c43fe68.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/e02e13dc.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/0026f353.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/d6f54c0a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/4bc6ae9f.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/64b1ea46.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/bcfc61ee.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/5830079c.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/44e85a4b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/4e7a3c6d.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/19c18155.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/76a8aaf0.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/00f34c77.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/1737d48d.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/2d80082e.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/8d741f80.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/605c4547.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/4ccafac8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/marc_elliott/1cb03a61.jpg

Can't imagine how a large suburb can function without it's own commercial area.

Can't imagine how a large suburb can function without it's own commercial area.

Over 90% of American suburbs depend on malls, strip malls, and office parks to survive. Sad but true.

Paris. Some of the suburbs(esp in North) are shockingly deprived and rundown, a real eye opener after leaving the beautiful city centre.

Nearly every suburb in New England has a town center; the Common is a fundamental part of almost every town and village in Mass, New Hampshire, CT, etc. Town centers are also quite common in New York, particularly Upstate (around Albany, for example). However, outside of New England and New York, very few places have town centers.

Pretty much have town centers all over here in Germany in the suburbs as well. In fact, so do the suburbs in Australia & New Zealand.

Yes,like Bad Homburg(which you previously mentioned) does

Yes, that's true, generally speaking. However, suburbs in Europe are NOT the same thing as suburbs in North America. In fact, a European suburb is more equivalent to an American inner-city, and a European city-centre is more like an American suburb...why?...well because many European suburbs (this doesn't seem to be very much the case in Great Britain and other northern countries) have housing that is less expensive compared to the city-centre. The housing in the city-centre is more in demand or desirable, because it is in proximity to all the central shops, nightlife, restaurants, office/management jobs (in comparison to the factory/working class jobs in the suburbs), monuments, grand urban works/landscaping/parks, prestigeous and/or historical neighborhoods that allow for pleasant/charming urban walks, etc.

In the European suburbs, after WWII, a huge number of commieblocks, cheap and with little need for an architect's unique floor plan or design of any kind, were built to house the flux of immigrants and working class citizens that would not have afforded, much less, fit in the city centres. Well, perhaps this doesn't quite pertain as much to countries like Spain and Portugal who didn't receive anywhere as many immigrants as say the UK, France, Germany or the Netherlands in the 60s, 70s and 80s...but cheap housing was built nonetheless in those countries, for its working class citizens, even if they were not immigrants. And since European city-centres, not all, but many, have strict esthetic and preservation policies, factories, as early as the industrial era, were built outside the city-centre...in what is now the suburbs. Many of the commieblocks built there later were ideally near these factories, where a lot of the working class citizens worked. And many of the offices and headquarters of those factories (like a car or tire factory) were/are in the city, where incidently, many of the higher paying jobs are, and office workers often live in proximity to their homes too.

In the US, the opposite occured. We all know that in most North American cities, middle-class fled to the suburbs. That's where you find the nice, bigger, beautiful homes...in huge contrast to the inner-city neighborhoods and housing. This fleeing has happened too in some European cities, mainly like Great Britain and Scandinavian countries, but in France and Germany too, but even much less. In French suburbs for instance, you can find some VERY nice suburbs, consisting of individual houses, with charming little gardens, within walking distance to the suburb's city centre (each suburbs is essentially its own town, except it is contiguous (attached) to the others). But within a mile you'll come across a different type of French suburb..."la cité"...which basically means the "projects", hard-core ghetto, like an American inner-city ghetto. But generally speaking, most and the worse "projects" of Pars are in the North suburbs and in many East suburbs. In the West and some South suburbs, you have the nicer suburbs, with charming houses and prestigeous appartments, just like if you were in Paris, or better. I'm sure, it's similar in other European suburbs...some look so bad like the Parisian suburb (la Courneuve...which is the Compton or the South Bronx of Paris...the worse of the worse...where French police rarely go in). But NOT all suburbs in Paris or other European cities are like that.

And like someone else said earlier and illustrated, to be honest, most European suburbs (even the ones with projects) are descent compared to most American inner-city neighborhoods, which are often blight to the max, and partly and sadly abondonned. Many European suburbs do form a big contrast to their central-city counterparts that we all know as beautiful and well preserved, grand or charming.

But yes, I agree...SOME European suburbs are very ugly, but there is no direct equivalent to them in most American cities west of the Appalachians.
You're right but in Europe there are also typical middle class suburbs. It also depends from city to city. In Belgium for example the city centers are very mixed and the rest of the inner city is quit poor. Arround the city's are more green and middle class or high class suburbs. Antwerp and Brussels have nice suburbs with big houses and both have big parts of rich en very green suburbs with huge houses.
In Europe their are also al lot of suburbs spread out in the countryside. Mostly habited by middle clas and nicer than American suburbs because their
are on a smaller scale.
Most Paris ugly suburbs are in the inner suburbs arround Paris. technically it are more city boroughs than suburbs. The north-eastern suburbs are bad but the south-western suburbs are rich nice and very green.
In General outher suburbs in Europe are a bit like American. Inner city's are very mixed and inner suburbs are mainly not that good but can be quit rich to.
And of course industrial areas are poorer than greener sides of urban areas.

nottingham, where i live, has very few "nice" suburbs. maybe this is to be expected, as traditionally it is a very working class city, which was built on industry, primarily coal mining and manufacturing.

the city centre is obviously the transport, cultural, social hub of the city, and the oldest part. there is a good mix of old buildings here, and new high density developments, which are mainly for shopping and other commercial interests, although now there is a trend where residential developments are taking place, due to the current high demand for city centre living. its actually looking really nice in town at the moment.

then, with the high demand for workers housing that came with the industrial revolution, the areas immediately surrounding the centre were built up to house these workers, and heavy industry. the housing here consisted of extremely dense ( and often poorly built) terraced housing, often 3 or 4 storeys high. this covered massive areas surrounding the city centre, and is what is now known as the inner city. however, after the war, when large areas were destroyed, massive rebuilding programs took place from the late 40s through to the 80s.

this was the same (pretty much) as in any other uk city, involving demolition of large areas of terraced streets and back to backs, and their replacement with huge tower block estates, and high density modern terrace complexes (much like the american "projects"). these were supposed to improve the quality of life for the residents by having a kind of "urban village" feel. the reality is that they bred astronomical crime rates and poverty, probably because of their density, poor design and build quality. some of these areas have become ghettos, where complex networks of alleys and dark, decaying buildings seem designed to encourage criminal activity.
some inner city areas (such as lenton, and forest fields) have actually become quite trendy, attracting residents because of their young, multicultural demographics, bustling main thorughfares, and busy nightlife. i like the areas where u can see streets which contain old terraces mixed with newer estates - the diversity of the buildings in the inner city reflects the high cultural and ethnic diversity of the residents.

outside of the inner city, most of the suburban areas are actually seperate industrial towns that have been slowly swallowed up by nottinghams sprawl. i live in one of these areas, and they generally contain an even mix of working/ middle class, with their own town centres. the housing here is usually a mixture of terraces, and suburban semi-detached homes built in the 20s, 30s and 40's, although there are small areas with more expensive housing. these areas also tend to contain a lot of industry, be it old factories, or modern industrial estates. the area where i live, chilwell, is half suburban peacefulness, and half council estate, and i like that.

filling the gaps between these areas are huge outer city estates, which consist of low/medium density suburban style semis or modern terraces. these areas (broxtowe estate, strelley, bestwood) dont appear too bad, but they are absolute shitholes, with very low incomes and teenage mothers with 12 kids. nothing personal against the people, but anyone who denies that cinderhill or clifton is a massive shithole seriously needs psychological help.

there are "nicer" suburbs such as west bridgford and wollaton also filling these gaps, but not many. personally i prefer the more mixed areas, i just find them more interesting, and the people are nicer and less stereotypical (every voting constituency around here voted elected labour, apart from rushcliffe, which contains west bridgford. they voted conservative).

anyone from the uk reading this will probably relate what ive just said directly to their city, as most are likely to be reasonably similar, although i would expect that most have more "nice" suburbs than nottingham. im sure many from europe and america will find similarities to their cities, too.

Oh yeah. Didn't Paris do that "La Defense" thing where they housed all the immigrants and stuff and all those places turned into those nasty suburbs you see now?

i know that paris suburbs are really bad. thats why im getting angry when they say that paris is the most beautiful city in the world. because you cant judge a city only by its center.
hopefully i dont live in a shitty suburb because im in Old part of a new planned town built after the 70s and theire is not many ugly blocks here

Paris by far... all the French cities (and the Swiss Romands ones) have nasty baulieux of endless commieblocks.

Paris suburbs: Versailles, Fontaineblau ...
</those are suburbs too>

I guess you know what I meant :) I remember the neighbourhood just behind La Defense...

Paris has NASTY suburbs but they ain't that bad really.. Lisbo has some nasty awful places also. AS well as Madrid or Barcelona.. or Rome, Milan, London, Athens, .. come on, all big cities have nasty suburbs, it's difficult to judge which is the worst.. so I have some difficulty in saying that it is Paris.

Horrible suburbs? Paris' outskirts with lots of immigrants and low-income population, Berlin's Marzahn and and other Eastern parts of Berlin, with low-income population as well and pretty much skinheads. But honestly, I think a city ALWAYS has horrible neighbourhoods or outskirts. Some more and some less. If it was just ugliness, I would add some London outskirts I've seen from the plane. One house uglier than the other! But still better than a favela, indeed! ;-)

i bet suburbia killed jfk, created nazism and knows where jimmy hoffa is.

you gotta be greatfull euro suburbs arent as bad as american ones. they are less simcity effect (zone 500 blocks with houses and yes they will come)

There you are right!

BTW Belgrad's outskirts are also a tale to tell ;)

i bet suburbia killed jfk, created nazism and knows where jimmy hoffa is.

you gotta be greatfull euro suburbs arent as bad as american ones. they are less simcity effect (zone 500 blocks with houses and yes they will come)

americans suburbs are nice houses with garden while european suburbs are commieblocks between highways mixed with houses and industry :runaway:

I think some people in Les ulis right next to where I live, in la courneuve, or in Les tarterets would give anything to have a house, a garden and a car, typical of north american suburbs

Here suburbs are more like inner-cities in the US, between CBD's, town centers and suburbia. they are not organised the same, but the living conditions are the same

the american model of suburbs is developping in paris too and thats a good thing it think, because having a house is better than an appartment NO DOUBT!
but the high quality appartements are very successfull too. theire is 2 models.

I personnaly want a house and a garden!

It's not actually better, it depend on what you want actually, and if you live alone, or as a couple it's really useless, the problem with houses with garden etc, is sprawl, which is totaly negative for the environment

Madrid has some nasty suburbs too

sprall is negative but in the future theire will be almost non polluting cars with new energy so itll be better. exept for the space taken but population growth will stop in the long term too so the sprall will end... unless people want to have 3 houses!

Sprawl in itself is bad, not only because of the cars but because urban areas "take over" nature. And I don't think it's reasonable to make asumptions based on long term futur previsions, because right now, cars do polute, and auto-industry polutes too, not just cars themselves, AC polutes etc. And for the population growth it's not wise to base ourself on futur previsions, no one can clearly know how populations will grow in 100 years

All the major cities have their nasty suburbs. I've seen a lot of nasty suburbs but some are just plain horrible, simple as that.

Paris by far? No way, London is the worst.

http://www.webcom.com/~trw/London/images/52235731.jpg

http://www.hackneygpvts.org.uk/hackney_people2.jpg

http://www.hackneygpvts.org.uk/hackney_block.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/hackney_marsh.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/konur-alp.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/downs_corner.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/car_wreck_railway.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/regents_canal_3.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/greenway_2.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/vallance_market.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/watney_market.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/lynndie/girl_primrose.jpg

PS that girl at the end is blindly drunk, nothing too suspect don't get any ideas.

i say london..
if were not counting moldova, rumania etc.. cuz they are worst by far!!!!!!!

^^ What a stupid thing to show black people to say the suburb is nasty!!! And the first of the 'nasty' photos of London looks just like the suburb of any big metropolis!

Paris!!!

Agreed.But not on the edge.kind of in the middle.Just outside of the inner ring.

Also Bacelona and Naples.Shocking outer suburbs.But nice in the center :)

But Belrin and most German cities had very nice outer suburbs I thought.

Legionowo, suburb of Warsaw:

http://www.legionowo.com.pl/rano1.JPG

http://www.legionowo.com.pl/rano2.JPG

http://www.legionowo.com.pl/rano3.JPG

http://www.legionowo.com.pl/rano4.JPG

http://www.legionowo.com.pl/rano5.JPG

http://www.legionowo.com.pl/rano6.JPG

http://www.legionowo.com.pl/rano7.JPG

http://www.legionowo.com.pl/rano8.JPG

http://www.legionowo.com.pl/rano9.JPG

http://www.legionowo.com.pl/rano10.JPG

http://www.legionowo.com.pl/rano11.JPG

http://www.legionowo.com.pl/rano12.JPG

Pruszków, another Warsaw suburb:

http://stary.pruszkow.w.interia.pl/klimaty/HPIM1635.JPG

http://stary.pruszkow.w.interia.pl/klimaty/HPIM1646.JPG

http://stary.pruszkow.w.interia.pl/klimaty/HPIM3184.JPG

http://stary.pruszkow.w.interia.pl/klimaty/HPIM3251.JPG

Paris by far? No way, London is the worst.

http://www.webcom.com/~trw/London/images/52235731.jpg

http://www.hackneygpvts.org.uk/hackney_people2.jpg

http://www.hackneygpvts.org.uk/hackney_block.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/hackney_marsh.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/konur-alp.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/downs_corner.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/car_wreck_railway.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/regents_canal_3.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/greenway_2.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/vallance_market.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/watney_market.jpg

http://badgas.co.uk/lynndie/girl_primrose.jpg

Some eye opening photos of London there, but I think you are being a bit of a prick showing a group of group of girls posing for a photo and a drunk girl lying on the floor! Whats your point with these?

Anyway trying to ignore your pathetic distasteful attitude and back to the thread. London has some of the poorest districts in the UK. Bizzarely and rather worringly these poor areas have been poor for centuries with little change. Some areas go through periods of tattiness then gentrification (see Islington, Brixton, Farringdon) but others like districts in the East End (from where the majority of the photos came) seem to be forever locked in a cylce of despair. Yet I would call the Eastend innercity rather than suburbia.

With regards to the actual suburbs (London being a pioneer of the suburb, borrowing from the garden city concept at the beginning of last century), they have been rather mixed in success but with no where near the level of problems as deprived innercity areas. I think you may be confusing a tatty suburban urbanscape with poverty, which is not quite the truth. Some suburbs were originally old towns that got engulfed in Londons expansion in the Victorian era so these have become quite successful areas maintaining their own identity. Most suburbs tend to be family orientated low density housing with lots of green space... while many have infamous tower block social housing, it is still mixed with other types of developments. I have seen many tatty suburbs, ruined by over zealous road 'improvements' and suffering from the decline of manufacturing industries.

Anyway I havent a clue as to why canadian cities have excellent suburbs but I suppose that every city grows from a different and complex historical background

I think you sad people are choosing yourself to believe that it was a racist gesture, even tho I'm half black myself. Those girls are rudegals from Hackney, they'll knick your mobile phone in a blink of an eye. And before you random idiots from Canada, Brazil tell me different, er I know it's my city of residence. The drunk bird at the end was put in for joke.

Somebody made a comment about American suburbs not having city centers, which is pretty much wrong. Newever developments in brand new cities like Vegas are obviously all highway and strip mall, but on the East Coast, outside of major cities like NYC, Boston or DC, there are satellite towns that are very nice. I live in DC, and the closest town outside the city limits is Bethesda, which has a ridiculous amount of Restaurants, bars and boutiques. I know in NYC there are plenty of nice towns in Westchester county (Scarsdale, Rye, Bronxville, etc). Not all american suburbs are highways, office parks and stripmalls.

In addition, American cities are taking a page out of European cities. As the post war economy grew, along with the automobile, the rise of the highway led to the rise of the suburb, and the city fell out of fashion. Instead of a place to work play and live, the city was limited to being a workplace. As the urban lifestyle becomes fashionable and desirable, you will see more and more condo projects going up in city centers around the U.S. I know in St. Louis (where I go to school), the buildings in the old warehouse district that used to be factories/manufacturing plants are being renovated and turned into lofts, which is nice because downtown St. Louis has some fantastic architechture. The same goes for DC. Many former run down areas and being revived with trendy boutiques, coffee shops and converted living spaces. Look at 14th street in DC or Capitol Hill, which is almost becoming a second georgetown. I think in the future we'll see European and American cities converge on similar paths, although the architechtural styles will always set them apart in many ways. American cities are also learning the value of public transportation more, as gas prices continue rising...

@sitback: You should lay back and not call other forumers idiots. If you had explained the photo first, no one would have called you a racist. But you are rude anyway, so go ahead bashing and offending other people, drown in your own significance!!!

@sitback: You should lay back and not call other forumers idiots. If you had explained the photo first, no one would have called you a racist. But you are rude anyway, so go ahead bashing and offending other people, drown in your own significance!!!

Paris by far? No way, London is the worst.


Hey ! It's not a contest !

:lol: :hilarious :lol:

I was definately shocked to see the scores of high rises on the outskirts of Paris. They were not in the travel brochures, lol. They reminded me of the Cabrini Green and old Robert Taylor housing projects in Chicago.

I live in the North-West suburbs of London, and some of them are fantastic, others not. Certainly aren't as bad as some in Paris, New York etc.

Hackney is not a suburb for crying out loud :D.

Suburbs (urban areas on the outskirts of cities= Hillingdon, Harrow,Brent, Barnet, Enfield, Waltham Forest, Redbridge, Havering, Bexely, Bromley,Croydon, Sutton, Merton, Kingston, Richomd, Hounslow.

Harldy poor. Most are Conservative or Lib Dem seats.

Brand new flat overlooking the Regent's Canal? I wouldn't say no!

http://badgas.co.uk/eastend/regents_canal_3.jpg

Peyre's right, Hackney isn't a suburb, its Inner City.

The worst suburbs in London in terms of poverty and general skank are places like Dagenham, Edmonton and Hounslow. In general though I'd say suburban London is pretty Middle-Class and affluent. The poverty / crime / high-rises are in Inner City areas like Hackney.

on the East Coast, outside of major cities like NYC, Boston or DC, there are satellite towns that are very nice. I live in DC, and the closest town outside the city limits is Bethesda, which has a ridiculous amount of Restaurants, bars and boutiques.

Annapolis, MD is a very nice smaller town too I generally like the towns in NE US, they look like nice places to live with a very high quality of life, high incomes, low crime etc.

moscow...

Let us be honest here, the whole of East London is a dump bar a few areas.

London suburb is the worst filthy place I've ever seen in europe.Paris isn't that bad in comparaison.

i know that paris suburbs are really bad. thats why im getting angry when they say that paris is the most beautiful city in the world. because you cant judge a city only by its center.
hopefully i dont live in a shitty suburb because im in Old part of a new planned town built after the 70s and theire is not many ugly blocks here

Common shut it, every city in the world has some bad area. Paris suburb isn't much worst that some places in the melbourne or london(i want to vomit on this one. Paris in it's splendor is human achievement at it's highest so please don't try to bash Paris.

Anyway I havent a clue as to why canadian cities have excellent suburbs but I suppose that every city grows from a different and complex historical background

Not all suburbs are excellent. Some are a bit tattered (Whalley, Jane&Finch, Malvern just to name a few), though not to the extent of Paris or London's suburbs.

Common shut it, every city in the world has some bad area. Paris suburb isn't much worst that some places in the melbourne or london(i want to vomit on this one. Paris in it's splendor is human achievement at it's highest so please don't try to bash Paris.

Its good to see modesty reigns supreme. Somehow I think there are greater things that humans have achieved than Paris. Its sounds a little pompous and arrogant to make such a ridiculously over the top statement. Yes Paris is human achievement at its greatest but only when you dodge stepping in the dog merde.

I say again, go and visit the suburbs I listed, not inner city areas like Bow and Hackey. Then come back and tell me if London's suburbs are so bad.

http://www.alg.gov.uk/upload/public/docImages/9/London_borough_map.gif

London suburb is the worst filthy place I've ever seen in europe.Paris isn't that bad in comparaison.

Common shut it, every city in the world has some bad area. Paris suburb isn't much worst that some places in the melbourne or london(i want to vomit on this one. Paris in it's splendor is human achievement at it's highest so please don't try to bash Paris.

^
You contradict yourself here, as well as sounding like a pompous tw*t

You say London suburb (sic) is the "worst filthy place" but then go on to say Paris isn't much worst (sic) than some places in Melbourne or London

Vomit away!

London suburb is the worst filthy place I've ever seen in europe.Paris isn't that bad in comparaison.

Yes, absolutely filthy, how can people even consider living in wretched hives of scum and villany such as these?

http://www.beaumont-london-apartments.co.uk/sflds2.jpg

http://mesh.medill.northwestern.edu/global/archives/greenwich.jpg

http://www.rosenblatt-sf.com/Selected_Photos/Greenwich,%20England%20(07142002)%20030.jpg

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/185894077X.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://www.thamesweb.co.uk/windsor/localviews/images/BexleySt24052004.jpg

http://www.laleham-camera-club.co.uk/comp0405/9x6/Themed2004R3P1_9x6.jpg

http://womble.designwest.com/wimbledon/wimpics/small/WimbledonHigh2-.jpg

Compared to the delightful beauty of Bobigny and Noisy-le-Grand for example these London suburbs are so poor and dirty it is unbelievable!

Bobigny

http://media.de.indymedia.org/images/2003/11/66118.jpg

Noisy-le-Grand (looks a bit like Pyongyang ;) )

http://www.ac-creteil.fr/egaloisnoisylgrd/ng/images/camprof.jpg

In reality both Paris and London have some very nice suburbs and some not very nice suburbs, there isn't much difference imo.

http://www-loa.univ-lille1.fr/photons/photosdessites/Clipart/creteil.jpg

http://www.ac-rennes.fr/pedagogie/hist_geo/ResInternet/baroquetclass/barokclassi/versailles.jpg

http://photoenligne.free.fr/ValdOise/Argenteuil/D5054.jpg


http://francefromtheair.free.fr/photos/highdef/1432.jpg


Good and bad... :)

Yes, absolutely filthy, how can people even consider living in wretched hives of scum and villany such as these?

http://www.beaumont-london-apartments.co.uk/sflds2.jpg

http://mesh.medill.northwestern.edu/global/archives/greenwich.jpg

http://www.rosenblatt-sf.com/Selected_Photos/Greenwich,%20England%20(07142002)%20030.jpg

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/185894077X.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://www.thamesweb.co.uk/windsor/localviews/images/BexleySt24052004.jpg

http://www.laleham-camera-club.co.uk/comp0405/9x6/Themed2004R3P1_9x6.jpg

http://womble.designwest.com/wimbledon/wimpics/small/WimbledonHigh2-.jpg

Compared to the delightful beauty of Bobigny and Noisy-le-Grand for example these London suburbs are so poor and dirty it is unbelievable!

Bobigny

http://media.de.indymedia.org/images/2003/11/66118.jpg

Noisy-le-Grand (looks a bit like Pyongyang ;) )

http://www.ac-creteil.fr/egaloisnoisylgrd/ng/images/camprof.jpg

In reality both Paris and London have some very nice suburbs and some not very nice suburbs, there isn't much difference imo.

Well look like you are bias showing only the good side. I hate people who only talk about the bad side of Paris when in london there is worst. In melbourne once you get out of the city central all thatt you see is grafitti and commie block building. I've been in Paris it isn't that bad, I may not have visisted the whole place but I think London is worst overhall.

quezal, his post was ironic, and he said that paris and london BOTH had good and bad suburbs that's all

I say london. The whole of east london is a complete ghetto.

I say london. The whole of east london is a complete ghetto.

*sighs*

Just like Upminster, Epping, Chigwell, Chingford...

The Inner City of East London is poor, but we're talking about suburbs here.

Moreover, there's nothing "ghetto" about it... Apart from almost exclusively Bengali Brick Lane and Whitechapel much of East London is extremely mixed, places like Upton Park and East Ham seem to be almost an equal ratio of White:Black:Asian which is pretty cool.

All of the Victorian "ring" of Inner City London is either poor or has poor bits, its not an East End disease (think Tottenham, Harlesden, Clapton, Peckham, Camberwell, Walworth).

I've not seen 'em but what are Athens' suburbs like? But as a capital it must be Chisiñau, Moldovia.

http://www.darkface.pp.se/~kynnie/New%20York/Harlem/1359.jpg


...Dad???

:poke:

so you post a picture from Harlem, NYC

and?

Manchester have some poor suburbs.


http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/482FitzwarrenCourt_pic2.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/481RosehillCourt_pic2.jpg

http://www.aidan.co.uk/lg/MancWayA34TnlRubsh4815.jpg

http://www.graffiti.org/trains/vttrain1.jpg

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RACfAscUE9OboT7Eus28NbYGFmLHeuSAaj7vsqCWD6L7aIueV79LUbXgjxnkq3Fmgn6C56e9PVJZ51lsbyKSwZvIBDJP1wu7mqKx84JMkmw/bashy7db.jpg?dc=4675521004520139245

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/269ThornCourt_pic1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/521EagleCourt_pic1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/524RodneyCourt_pic1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/943DaltonCourt_pic1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1032ArmitageCourt_pic1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1245NewbankTower_pic1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1202WiltonCourt_pic1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1261RoachCourt_pic1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1259MossBrookCourt_pic1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1359ThomasCourt_pic1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1534PeachTreeCourt_pic1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1919NaylorCourt_pic1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/480BriarHillCourt_pic1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/482FitzwarrenCourt_pic1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/269ThornCourt_pic2.jpg

http://www.urbis.org.uk/pictures/thisisnowtitle(1).jpg

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RACfAscUE9OboT7Eus28NbYGFmLHeuSAaj7vsqCWD6L7aIueV79LUbXgjxnkq3Fmgn6C56e9PVJZ51lsbyKSwZvIBDJP1wu7mqKx84JMkmw/bashy7db.jpg?dc=4675521004520139245

:omg: No way, black people live there! Shit it must be bad! :weirdo:

http://www.urbis.org.uk/pictures/thisisnowtitle(1).jpg


I really like that actually.

I really like that actually.

yeah that graf looks awesome!

In melbourne once you get out of the city central all thatt you see is grafitti and commie block building.

hehehe that's so funny, not even worth a response :-)

I would say Rome are the capital of nasty suburbs , look at tor bella monaco

London's suburbs are well known they are called the Home Counties and Home to the Stockbroker belt.

This thread was burried ages ago, why prop it up for such a small comment...

That said, now that I've seen some third world suburs (in this case Lima), it's made me relativise how I see the Paris ones....

I would say Rome are the capital of nasty suburbs , look at tor bella monaco

Yeah, the worst suburb in Rome, very representative indeed.
Just like saying Hackney or Brixton are the typical London suburbs.

Some galleries of ordinary Rome suburbs:

[1] (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=738938)
[2] (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=546385)
[3] (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=560624&page=5)

European suburbs look much more worse than NA suburbs IMO.

There´s NYC for ya.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8139/queensbridgehouses8feb0uv0.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=queensbridgehouses8feb0uv0.jpg)http://img185.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

Based on my experices I'd say:
Paris-London-Naples-Milan-Moscow-Bucharest

Cheers!

There´s NYC for ya.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8139/queensbridgehouses8feb0uv0.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=queensbridgehouses8feb0uv0.jpg)http://img185.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

:puke:

Absolutely beautiful. You have to take into consideration the fact that the picture was taken in Autumn. ;)

Casual pics i found on the web about Milan situation:

An old pic of a protest
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3518/esteticaautonomanc2.th.png

Nord suburb - Bruzzano
http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/8519/bruzzano3rr8.th.jpg

Nord suburb - Quarto Oggiaro
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7133/quartooggiaro1ms8.th.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9703/quartooggiaro2mx3.jpg

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/3303/4otm2q0rf2.jpg

Winter
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9527/800px1421neveamilanofotyl6.jpg

Chinese protest-fight against Police abuse
http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/9721/45658777859bb69f964cy9.jpg

Some protests
http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/6909/m1203int0302up8.jpg

http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/2166/milano16mn4.jpg

http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/2637/milano21eo2.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3707/milano221cc2.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3735/no20global20milanobe0.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7331/violenza20ultrasge2.jpg

Cheers! :cheers:

Welcome to Amsterdam :cheers:

http://www.sp.nl/nieuws/tribune/200605/bijlmer_vuilnis.jpg

Jail on the left, shoppingmall on the right!
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9941/070806karspeldreef05re1.jpg

http://www.jaaphuisman.nl/data/pictures/large/208.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3981/bijlmer01ju0.jpg

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/830/1000604mediumlt9.jpg

Jail!
http://spitsnet.nl/uploaded/CCI/24-07-07%231%23DS%23%232407_bin_bijlerbajes.tif%231.jpg

The Bijlmerdisaster happened here in the Bijlmer. The exact number of dead people isn't known because of the many illegal people living there.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k202/ErwinNegentig/Bijlmerramp.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/zaan/2005-05-18-01.jpg

http://home.versatel.nl/pietvandermeer/images/amsterdam%20graffiti%202.jpg

http://www.elsevier.nl/upload/1226844b-5713-4d99-8763-62b5c52a8d19_krakers-amsterdam.jpg

http://www.elsevier.nl/upload/7dbee241-5631-4121-9314-5481d34f9650_a20051511275149.jpg

http://www.debeurs.nl/UserFiles/Image/2007/200710/20071031/kraakpand.3.425.jpg

Murders in Amsterdam, mostly for criminal reasons.
http://www.rtl.nl/components/actueel/4inhetland/2005/week44/Doek_Hingst_138.jpg

http://www.parool.nl/static/FOTO/pe/17/13/7/art_xlarge_8377.jpg

Murder on a gay politician.
http://judicial-inc.biz/pim_Forteu.jpg

My god, you win^^. The politician murder image is vile.

Barcelona and Athens....IMO. Most American cities have really nasty suburbs but they don't contain commieblocks. They contain cookie cutter subdivisions on cul-de-sacs.

My god, you win^^. The politician murder image is vile.

agreed, very sad :(

That NYC pic isn't a suburb...

BTW, I remember seeing a documentary on some hideous outlying areas/suburb in some spanish city that looked very third world like. That oughtta top the list for nastiest suburb in Europe without a doubt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3OtC93Tnoc

I have to say that southern European cities suburbs appear worse than northern ones to me. Some Barcelona ones are pretty bad, with dwellings right beside big factories. And I wonder why people find highrise districts visually awful. Some rundown lowrise districts in Paris suburbs look worse than most of the "cités".

Welcome to Amsterdam :cheers:

Murder on a gay politician.
http://judicial-inc.biz/pim_Forteu.jpg

One of the worst murders ever in the Netherlands. However I wouldn't call Hilversum Amsterdam. Your city is far more Amsterdam than Hilversum, but you still call it by name below your avartar.

Further more I think you should give some representative pictures of a bad area. 2 pictures of the worst looking shopping mall that is going down soon isn't very convincing.

There´s NYC for ya.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8139/queensbridgehouses8feb0uv0.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=queensbridgehouses8feb0uv0.jpg)http://img185.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

That is not a suburb.

SuomiPoika is such a hater. :lol:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2347/2039149118_a34a7e5046_b.jpg

A suburb in Lima to put things in perspective...

That is not a suburb.

Depends on your definition of a suburb doesn't it? Where abouts is it situated in relation to the CBD?

Personally I agree with members on here who state that suburbs tend to be better in northern European nations relative to southern (bar the UK which has some serious shockers). As posted on the Commieblock thread, many of the former East German commieblock estates have been rennovated and done up to be quite livable and those that have not, are in the process of being torn down, or have been torn down.

That is Queensbridge, a massive public housing complex which is right across the East River from Manhattan. Probably 2-3km east of Midtown.

It really isn't a suburb in any kind of definition, although I know that some believe that suburbs include everything that is not in the CBD. In the US (for the most part, there are large exceptions), everything in the city limits is the city, and everything outside it is the "suburbs".

I say exceptions because even New York has massive swaths that are suburban in nature. But this is not one of them.

France, then Italy, and then spain, would have to have the worst looking suburbs.

Some European suburbs (commieblock-districts) might look really bad, but actually, esp. compared to US inner cities, they're quite safe&clean , esp. those in Germany are....

Regarding the question where the nastiest suburbs in Europe are, well, I'd say that some of the commieblock-suburbs on the Balkan look quite bad, dirty and run-down, though i guess that they look worse then they're.( I mean something like this which is in Sofia and looks pretty bad IMO:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/Lulin_free_s8.jpg )

In Western Europe, from what I've seen, Paris has some pretty bad suburbs, with many commieblocks, though many other Western european (esp. French) cities have similar commie-suburbs , and once gain they appear to be worse then they're in reality.

get me pics please, always wanted those german ones.


Some European suburbs (commieblock-districts) might look really bad, but actually, esp. compared to US inner cities, they're quite safe&clean , esp. those in Germany .......

France, then Italy, and then spain, would have to have the worst looking suburbs.

I would actually say Italy, Spain, then France, if speaking in aesthetic terms. If you are speaking in social terms (e.g. delinquency) France may came before Spain and even Italy (although Napoli and Rome can be chaotic, no?)

But aethetically speaking, the average Paris and French suburbs does not look worse than many suburban communities of Italian and Spanish cities, as well as Athens. In fact, I find that Amsterdam has worse suburbs in general because it is a sea of huge rectangular buildings that form interesting but depressing geometric layouts of concrete. And British cities, including London, have some very bad neighborhoods of social housing just around Central London, especially in the South, East and North. But London is full of green, single-family suburbs in it's 3rd layer--some of the nicest in Europe!

The same is true of Paris. Many of you are surely basing your Paris opinion on the fact you arrived at CDG Airport or Nord Station. Both require you to go through the worse part of the Paris suburbs: the northeast quadrant. Thalys, Eurostar and the RER B from CDG Airport go through that section of the Paris suburbs where you find the highest concentration of social housing, commie-blocks, and low-income communities, along with industrial zones. However, further out, the North and especially the East is full of greener, single-family communities, too. In fact, the Paris urban area has some of the highest number and percentage of single-family houses in all of Europe. Just verify for yourselves in Google Earth or Maps Google and use the Street View images. Many of these neighborhoods can't be seen from the rail lines because of barriers, buffers or the lower grading of rail lines. Then you have the Southern suburbs which are either descent, very descent or very nice and you have the Western suburbs which are full of green and wealthy communities. So most of you are basing your opinion on the worse suburbs: the Northeast quadrant. Arrive in Orly Aiport instead of CDG or another train station that is not Nord or Est and you'll notice a difference. The Paris suburbs are too big to base the whole place just on the Northeastern quadrant, or the Pablo Picasso housing projects behind La Défense, in my opinion!

This is NOT in the Northeastern quadrant...these single-family and semi-attached houses are common in the Paris suburbs. The Suburban Train departs Central Paris for the (Northwestern?) suburbs.
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Here is an RER or Suburban train to a part of the Southeastern suburbs which is a sea of single-family houses. Again, you won't see this if you're coming into Paris from CDG Airport or Nord Station like many visitors.
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Instead, here is what many of you see and base the Paris suburbs on when going into the city from CDG Airport or even the Nord Train Station: the Northeastern suburbs.
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Perhaps I'm odd, but I prefer apartment buildings to single family dwellings. I don't think that single family dwellings are aesthetically pleasing at all.

Some European suburbs (commieblock-districts) might look really bad, but actually, esp. compared to US inner cities, they're quite safe&clean


You are comparing European suburbs to US inner-cities. Why? That's like comparing apples to oranges.

Perhaps I'm odd, but I prefer apartment buildings to single family dwellings. I don't think that single family dwellings are aesthetically pleasing at all.

Well, a mix of both is always the best suburbs because suburbs predominantly consisting of single-family houses are as bad as those consisting predominantly of multifamily housing (e.g. Moscow or even Barcelona). Diversity is better (like London and Paris suburban communities) and that was what I was trying to show in the youtube videos on the post above...that Paris has both single-family /semi-attached and multifamily/commieblock suburbs...that Paris suburbs is not all commieblocks and horrible suburbs. In fact, only the minority are commieblocks/bad-looking suburbs.

You are comparing European suburbs to US inner-cities. Why? That's like comparing apples to oranges.

In many European cities, suburbs are perceived as being undesirable, lower-income, neglected, or simply least expensive compared to neighorhoods in the city or city-center. In the U.S., suburbs are perceived as being nicer than the poorer, inner-city neighborhoods. In most cases, they are opposites. Although true in many cases, there are many exceptions because the U.S. has crappy, lower-income suburban communities deemed undesirable and desirable, gentrified inner-neighborhoods, while some European cities (especially Paris and Northern Europe) have nice, green, desirable suburbs and unattractive neighborhoods in the center. But generally speaking, they are opposites in Europe vs US so often European suburbs are compared to American inner-cities.

Perhaps I'm odd, but I prefer apartment buildings to single family dwellings. I don't think that single family dwellings are aesthetically pleasing at all.

I'm not a big fan of single family houses either. They just seem to eat up resources and kill off civic life. I much prefer apartment buildings or even terrace houses. The benefits of a decent population density are immense...

Of course, I'm willing to reconsider my argument if someone could show me an intelligent rethink of suburbia. Malls and houses and freeways just aren't my thing...

Some European suburbs (commieblock-districts) might look really bad, but actually, esp. compared to US inner cities, they're quite safe&clean , esp. those in Germany are....


It really depends... I've seen some nasty pics of European cities in this thread which I haven't found in the whole NYC or whole NY metro area, whole LA metro and many other cities which I visited (there were a whole bunch of them, almost every important city in US to be precise).

Depends on your definition of a suburb doesn't it? Where abouts is it situated in relation to the CBD?


This man is right, it's definitely not a suburb bc that's normal part of Queens which is part of NYC. Just to give you an idea, it's sth like Arch Hill in Auckland - there is no question that it's not a suburb. Suburbs of NY are really long long way from Manhattan bc the whole metro area is huge - for example Rahway, Linden, Rutherford, Yonkers and so on...

I say london. The whole of east london is a complete ghetto.

Are you crazy? You REALLY don't know what your on about mate ;)
sigh*

Most of innercity south London isn't exactly nice,but even in places like Stockwell,Peckham & Brixton have very beautiful areas and grand victorian and georgian town houses.Literally,all South east London SUBURBS are nice.Areas like West Norwood,Streatham(yes Streatham[i should know,i live there])Herne hill,Forest hill,Tulse hill even! On a world scale,London doesn't have any Slums or Ghettos.

You see,you can't say that Londons Suburbs are dirty,blah,blah because that is where the majority of the middle class live.Its the opposite of Paris you seee.Most of the Bad areas are nearer to the centre.Thats how it works in the Uk.

I would say Rome are the capital of nasty suburbs , look at tor bella monaco

Why resurrect a three-and-a-half year old thread?!