hey guys...

just wondering which car is most popular over here.
BMW is more a performance car though i guess you could argue that. Mercedes is more the style and luxury car, performance is still pretty good.

Just to give an idea,

2004 BMW 330i vs 2004Mercedes C320

BMW 330i-
4 door sedan
RWD
front-mounted 3.0-liter DOHC 24-valve in line-six
170kW @ 5900 rpm
300Nm @ 3500 rpm
Figures-
0-100 7.32
0-400m 15.29 @ 153.0 km/h
$91,600
_________________________________________

Mercedes C320-
4 door sedan
RWD
front-mounted 3.2-liter SOHC 18-valve V6
160kW @ 5700 rpm
310Nm @ 3000 rpm
Figures-
0-100 7.82
0-400m 15.54 @ 149.0 km/h
$99,900

i guess styling is up to you... but they're a close match :)

a few nice features in my mums 530i [which will be mine when i learn how to drive, hehe, 3 more years]

outside-
bi-xenon headlights
clear indicators [if that matters]
PDC front and rear [park distance control]
rain sensors
glass sunroof
____________________________________

inside-
dead cow ass warmers
dual climate control [drive, passenger and rear]
AC
auto climate control
electric - mirrors
- seats
- windows
- sun roof
- steering wheel adjust
on-board - computer
- monitor
- TV
- GPS
- DVD
8 speakers
10 suffication bags
3 cancer stick trays

mercedes E320 would be about the same

laters... apache

skip both of them and go a WRX or GTR anyday

If I had to choose..beamer all the way!

Merc's are a nice sort of car. But not suited to Aussie climate which can and has had terrible effects on the performance of the car.

They're also alot more expensive to fix and to get parts for, and their mileage is alot to be desired.

But I guess it's really down to what decal you'd rather on the hood of your car.

Although, I think you should ditch both and go a nice Ford GT-P

for thank kind of money, go for the 350z or Subaru WRX sti

Merc - they seem to hold their re-sale value better - If you have a second hand one that is:)

jt

BMW makes the sportier "drivers" cars so they get my vote. But nothing near as powerful as the Mercedes SL65 (http://www.tuningnews.net/news/040407a/pic.php?id=07).

Mine ;)
http://www.automobil-magazin.de/fotos/bmcsl1.jpg

I was a Valet Parker at a Ritz Carlton here in the US during college. I've driven every kind of lux automobile, and of the two I prefer the BMW over the Benz. The 745i is an awesome machine.

I would go 3 series anyday.

Both are overpriced loads of shit driven mainly by snobs who want everyone to know they are better than you.

Would never drive either one no matter how much money I had.

Both are overpriced loads of shit driven mainly by snobs who want everyone to know they are better than you.

Would never drive either one no matter how much money I had.
Haven't ever driven one, have you?

heh, its funny how people are always saying thing like, "mercedes is more powerful or get a nissan, subaru or toyota or something along those lines..." people reckon they go way faster than beemers, yet the fastest car in the world has a BMW engine =)
...or if you reckon that's not realistic enough for you, try to find a car with such a good power per liter rateing as 265kW in a 3.2-liter in-line 6... i can think of a few, but just being in a BMW is like sitting at home... when i'm in my mums, i don't want to get out =D

so Deflec8R, the SL65 has about how many kWs? 420kW or something. i heard of something like that... the McDaddy's 6.1 has 460kW and is 12 years old =)... not bad eh?

so Deflec8R, the SL65 has about how many kWs? 420kW or something. i heard of something like that... the McDaddy's 6.1 has 460kW and is 12 years old =)... not bad eh?The SL65 and CL65 run a 6.0 litre twin-turbo V12 that develops 1000Nm of torque and 450kW of power. But weighing around two tonnes obviously they're not gonna stay with the McLaren in a race. The Mercs are not Formula 1-bred machines, they're high speed executive "sleepers". In other words they look respectable but can easily smoke your WRXs and V8 Commodores. The CL65 will do 335km/h once the speed limiter is disabled.

By the way 360 Modena, in case you haven't seen it I've got a video clip of the McLaren F1's 391 world record run. I'll post a link to it if you want.

yeah, i get what you mean by "respectable" [looks average]... like the Audi RS6, a supercar in a station wagon. But performance, isn't just speed. try to imagine a CL 65 take out a WRX in a rally competition. just for a little info... - SL 55 AMG vs CSL -

Mercedes SL 55 AMG -

5.4-liter SOHC 24-valve supercharged V8
368kW @ 6100rpm
700Nm @ 2750-4000rpm
1965kg
$359,474
____________________________________

BMW CSL

3.2-liter DOHC 24-valve inline six
265kW @ 7900
370Nm @ 4900
1385kg
$210,000

look at the differences, if you race them, mercedes looks like it'll cane the CSLs ass by heaps, yet take a look at this-

Mercedes SL 55 AMG

0-100km/h: 4.90
0-400m: 12.90 @ 179.7km/h
0-1000m: 23.32 @ 229.0km/h
top speed at Winton: 252km/h
__________________________

BMW CSL

0-100km/h: 5.15
0-400m: 13.40 @ 174.1km/h
0-1000m: 24.06 @ 224.4km/h
top speed at Winton: 269km/h

obviously, the SL 55 AMG has more power stop to start acceleration.
[because of the larger engine and more power]
so if they versed 1 on 1 in a 1000m drag race, the Mercedes would win...
in a a 1000m race where the cars start @ 80km/h the BMW would win...
[i have a video of a 1997 M3 standard kick the ass of a 2000 Ferrari 550M from a 100km/h start]
the SL 55 may be very powerful, but once handling comes in, the Merc has no chance... here are the results at Winton -

Mercedes SL55 AMG: 1:41.22
BMW M3 CSL: 1:37.06

so yeah there's the proof that it's not just a McLaren F1 that can beat Mercedes, its also the $210,000 CSL, alot cheaper than most of the Mercedes super cars.

and just to give a bit more on the CSLs side-

BMW CSL- 1:37.06, 265kW - Winnah!!
Porsche 911 Turbo- 1:37.07
Lamborghini Gallardo- 1:37.51, 367kW
Chrysler Viper RT/10- 1:38.44, 336kW
Audi RS 6-1:42.09, 331kW
HSV Clubsport R8- 1:43.50, 285kW
Mercedes E 55 AMG- 1:43.66, 350kW
HSV GTS- 1:43.44, 300kW
Jaguar S-type R- 1:45.22, 298kW
FPV Falcon GT- 1:45.57, 298kW
want more? hehe
and BTW, defec8R, i've seen the vid :)

^ Preaching to the converted 360?

Re: the CSL, that's the car I'd have. Look at the photo up the page.

heh, its funny how people are always saying thing like, "mercedes is more powerful or get a nissan, subaru or toyota or something along those lines..." people reckon they go way faster than beemers, yet the fastest car in the world has a BMW engine =)The McLaren V12 motor was built by BMW but never fitted to any of its cars. The most powerful BMW is the 373kW M5 - well short of Mercedes' 450kW V12 models. Note - given the choice I'd take the V10 M5 over a V12 twin-turbo Mercedes any day, in spite of the fact it would be owned in a traffic light drag race.

^ Preaching to the converted 360?

Re: the CSL, that's the car I'd have. Look at the photo up the page.

The McLaren V12 motor was built by BMW but never fitted to any of its cars. The most powerful BMW is the 373kW M5 - well short of Mercedes' 450kW V12 models. Note - given the choice I'd take the V10 M5 over a V12 twin-turbo Mercedes any day, in spite of the fact it would be owned in a traffic light drag race.

that's true, yet it still proves better than any merceds engine :)

I know this is the first post on this thread for a while but -

BMW and Mercedes now manufacture for a number of reasons.

1. Base model 3 series and C-Class are run of the mill taxis in Europe, and have little power or performance, and are only marginally better made than mid-level Japanese cars. A 320i is a depressing drive, full stop.

2. Top of the line 3 series are beautiful to drive, and are tactile and sweet. They have great motors, and until recently, looked good too. Similar C-class is still lacking in drivability and luxury at this price point. Neither is particularly well-built however, and would be creamed on a GOA assessment by an Audi, let alone a Lexus.

3. The mid-sized 5 series goes well, but let's face it - looks crap, and sales reflect this, with guarateed buybacks and preferential financing deals offered. E-Class is great, if it has a V8 - otherwise, it's just too heavy. Both cars are incredibly expensive, if fully optioned, with ridiculous charges for things that should be standard, like metallic paint and a sunroof.

4. S Class is the real deal, and with a V8, is almost as good as it gets. 7-Series is a dog of a car, that now looks crap, as well as driving crap! Both cars are very-expensive, with or without options, but so what?

5. SL is a beautiful car, with everything you could want in a GT, plus refinement and build quality. Likewise, new 6 is good too.

Moral of the story - the expensive variants are shit-hot, but the base models (which most people drive) are over-priced and under-performing shit heaps. I know this because I work in the industry and drive them all at some point over the course of a year. My prediction is that Audi and Lexus will take the fight to BMW and Mercedes over the next few years, because they offer more for less, and now build cars that look good too. Lexus, in particular, has more money to build better cars than any other manufacturer, because it's owned by Toyota. Just wait and see - BMW is officially shitting itself.

Either is excellent, but I'd go a Bimmer (Beamer is a BMW bike btw).

Generally Bimmers are for younger people and Mercs for older people, Bimmers are just more sporty, just listen to an inline six growl, it's magic. I'd skip on the Jap models, they are alright cars but have no class, lack pedigree and invariably whatever is on the latest S-class will end up on the next Toyota-Lexus, so you know, why go with the imitators, stick with the best:)

we just got a merc cls. it's an awesome car. it looks really futuristic. I hate bmw's new plasticy interiors. Many new models of mercs have come out overseas. and they are much better than the old ones. I like the cls so much i want to replace our bentley arnage with the new s class whick will come out in australia next year.

BMW all the way, give me a new M5 or the previous model M3 anyday!! :)

we just got a merc cls. it's an awesome car. it looks really futuristic. I hate bmw's new plasticy interiors. Many new models of mercs have come out overseas. and they are much better than the old ones. I like the cls so much i want to replace our bentley arnage with the new s class whick will come out in australia next year.

Oh wow...awesome car man. The CLS looks stunning! Congratulations. Which did you get, the 350 or 500?

Mercedes new cars are looking superb. Can't wait for the new S-class. It's going to be a technological MARVEL! As locke said, where the S-class goes, all others (i.e 7-series, A8 and LS) will follow.

350

500 is a waste of money. you pay an extra $60 thousand for a bigger engine.

500 is a waste of money. you pay an extra $60 thousand for a bigger engine.
It's acctually $36,000 ;) And that's for an extra 110Nm and 25kW...
The CLS is an awesome car, no offence but the engines are poor, even compared to a 5 series. Your car - 3.5l V6 - 200kW and 350Nm. That's pretty poor for an awesome german car. BMWs new 3.0l in-line 6 makes 190kW and 300Nm with a 6speed gearbox. What most younger drivers are looking for. And with an extra 0.2l, you got 252kW and 365Nm... Best in-line 6 ever! :D
IMO, BMW engines in Mercedes would make the perfect match.

Why would you compare an M3's engine to a standard Mercedes unit. Furthemore it is a widely known fact that Mercedes engines are deliberately designed to be unstressed and relaxed in their outputs and delivery, in the interest of long term reliability, whereas BMW and many other manufacturers tend to tune their engines for maximum output. Mercedes engines also tend to have very favourable torque characteristics, and not a single review has had anything but good things to say about the new 3.5L unit coupled to the 7-speed transmission that is widely regarded as the best auto in the world. :)

^^well it is hard to compare a mercedes 3.5l engine to BMW which do not make 3.5l engines...
so how bout i compare their '5' engines? [And no, not the M6s V10...]

S500L vs 750Li
Mercedes 5.0l V8 - 225kW - 460Nm
BMW 4.8l V8 - 270kW - 490Nm

That mercedes 5 Litre is the old unit and dates to the mid 90's. The BMW's unit is only a couple of years old. So why don't we compare to Mercedes brand new '5' unit.

The new 500 unit presented in the S-class has over 280Kw and 530NM. Powers the S-class 0-100 in under 5.4 seconds. Faster than the BMW V12. The Mercedes V12 is on another level.

And how about the umpcomming 6.3 Litre V8 from Mercedes AMG which is more powerful, has much more torque and on top of that is smaller and 60 kilos lighter than the BMW 5 Litre V10 fitted ti the M5 and M6.

Moral of the story...Mercedes also know how to build some damn fine engines. :)

Faster than the BMW V12
0-100 = -3.2sec?
Top Speed = +391km/h?
:eek2: how come i've never heard of it? i only know two cars that are faster than BMWs V12 non bi-turbo charged... non of them Merc

What engine are you talking about? Certainly not the V12 in the 7-series?

http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/ashriram/supercars/Mclaren%20F1%20Motor.jpg
i wanna see it with bi-turbo :D
800kW - 1200Nm? lol

That was an extremely highly specialised engine fitted to the Mclaren F1. You can't compare that to the v12's fitted in the production cars.

BMW finally are moving to the use of turbos in their engines, so you never know what turbo powerhouse they may come up with.Should be awesome!

are they? haven't heard anything about it yet. could you gimme some more info on which engines and stats etc..?

Yeah, theres talk about a new 3.5litre turbo unit being dropped into several models. Should happen some time in 2006 and 2007.

Heres a link to lots of upcomming BMW news (rumours and facts):
http://www.carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=14750

eh... that's shit; BMW letting out heaps of models.. i still remember the days of only 3, 5 and 7 series. but it should be interesting to see lots of new engines :) hopefully something to match mercs 450kW-1000Nm 6l bi-turbo V12 :D. Merc really need to make a light weight version of the SL65 AMG. it might even be better then the McLaren SLR. lol

Thats the problem hey, if the SL becomes too sporty it will compromise the SLR's position. And the SLR was compromised as an all out supercar to meet Mercedes criteria for safety and luxury in the first place. :bash:

Given the choice I'd take the V10 M5 over a V12 twin-turbo Mercedes any day, in spite of the fact it would be owned in a traffic light drag race.with DSC turned off, the SL65s rear tyres would probably die lol... anyway, its been a while, but i've looked at stats, and the M6 is only 0.4 seconds slower to 100km/h.
mercedes is wasting their 6l V12 bi-turbos.. firstly by chucking a massivly
powerful engine into a convertable which can bearly take the power of the 5.4l V8, and secondly by chucking on a price tag of $455,900 for the SL!!! you could almost have both an M5 and M6 with that money! perhaps if they get together with McLaren again, they could do alot better.

If you want a sedan for around 200,000, then get the new BMW 5 series as they've been
voted the best sedan for this year and they are much cheaper than the E class Mercs of
the same range.

If you want a sedan for less than 100,000, then the new BMW 3 series and the current
Merc C series or the current low end E series would be good choices, I'd go with Merc in
this case.

If you have around 150,000 and want a sporty cool looking covertible, then you'd be crazy
not to consider the Merc SLK 350/55AMG -- which goes from 0-100km in 5.5/4.9 seconds
and is an automatic hardtop covertible and packed with loads of gadgets.

^^not the 350! 55AMG all the way, though i'd still take an M3 or second hand M3 CSL, they clock awesome nuburgring times :D

m5 all the way.

^^not the 350! 55AMG all the way, though i'd still take an M3 or second hand M3 CSL, they clock awesome nuburgring times :D

You don't like hardtop covertibles? Or you think the 350 isn't fast enough for
you?

m5 all the way.

Yeah, m5 is really good and fast, and much cheaper than the Merc AMGs, the
only thing is that I think some of the AMGs look better than M5.

Niether, I drive a another German car, a Volkwagen.

I Love my comon commodore! BMW otherwise

BMW ,Mercedes is somehow tacky to me

reply to post #40
no, i like mercedes hard top convertables (besides the SL65), i just don't like mercedes 3.5l V6.. and i don't car about speed, its Australia, you could be on a bike and keep up with traffic.
i also agree with principes, M5 all the way

A recent audit by Brisbane City Council found that Mercedes are the best cars to have for council cars in terms of cost. This is because they keep their value better than other cars. Unfortunately it was decided that the council wouldn't be buying hundereds of Mercedes as it would look bad if council workers were seen driving around in Mercedes all day - even though at the end of the day its much better value for the rate payers.

Its a pity the average 'Joe' has no idea about cars and their value. BCC went for Toyota Prius electric hybrid cars same as Qld Government.

Also - in Brisbane Mercedes and BMW are VERY common - I've also heard that in Perth they are as well. From my trips down south the average commodor or falcon still seem to outnumber Mercedes and Beemers on the roads.

Just an observation.

LOL. When I was in the Army we drove Mercedes Benz's with sun roofs. We called them Unimogs. :D

reply to post #40
no, i like mercedes hard top convertables (besides the SL65), i just don't like mercedes 3.5l V6.. and i don't car about speed, its Australia, you could be on a bike and keep up with traffic.
i also agree with principes, M5 all the way

What's wrong with the Merc 3.5L V6? Is it too small for you?

Also - in Brisbane Mercedes and BMW are VERY common - I've also heard that in Perth they are as well. From my trips down south the average commodor or falcon still seem to outnumber Mercedes and Beemers on the roads.

Just an observation.

I think Mercs and BMWs are in general more expensive than Holden, that's
probably why there are far more Holdens on the streets than the German
cars.

Benz for sure! Which luxury brand sells the best?

Also - in Brisbane Mercedes and BMW are VERY common - I've also heard that in Perth they are as well. From my trips down south the average commodor or falcon still seem to outnumber Mercedes and Beemers on the roads.

Just an observation.

Us southerner don't need big expensive cars to show off our class and style, we do that with fashion and we set the trend :)

PS. I'm only having a dig

Benz for sure! Which luxury brand sells the best?

Mercedes has a comforable lead in the OZ luxury car market. VW is nipping at BMW's heals.

You mean Audi? I wouldn't exactly call VW luxury.

BMW - Bimmers are for young people; Mercedes' are for old people...

And yeah, the M5 kicks.

BM la... BMW is soo good looking ah.