A few pics of some of our great under-used/derelict warehouses.


Jamaica St/Norfolk St/Kitchen St
http://www.123lcc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/post/zP3280325.JPG
http://www.123lcc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/post/zP3280323.JPG


Parliament St/Jamaica St. This one is used as a space for artists
http://www.123lcc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/post/zP3280321.JPG


Park Lane. Heap Mill
http://www.123lcc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/post/zHeap Mill 2.JPG


The amazing Stanley Dock
http://www.123lcc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/post/zStanley Dock 1.JPG
http://www.123lcc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/post/zStanley Dock 8.JPG


Casartelli re-build.
http://www.123lcc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/post/zCasartell side st 2.JPG

That interesting warehouse off parliament street is known as the buddleia project.

Heres a link to what they're up to. Could do with spending afew quid sorting it out externally thats for sure, but she's a beaut.

http://www.buddleia.org/

Superb pics Juxtapol. Those abandoned warehouses, in their abandoned areas remind me a bit of the Bronx or something- their old bricks look incredibly nostalgic. That pic of Stanley Dock could easily be a scene from an American gangster movie. I really love these buildings- they are unbelievably huge and impressive. It's also really sad how they've ended up empty and abandoned when they quite clearly used to play such an important role. I hope these buildings are kept and turned into something new in the future. - what's the latest on Stanley Dock?

That interesting warehouse off parliament street is known as the buddleia project.

Heres a link to what they're up to. Could do with spending afew quid sorting it out externally thats for sure, but she's a beaut.

http://www.buddleia.org/
Ah...buddleia project, thats the one.

Thanks for the link, :cheers:

Had a little look, and shows that they are going to spend £12Million to redevelop the site and other listed buildings in the area.

Grrrrreat :)

Superb pics Juxtapol. Those abandoned warehouses, in their abandoned areas remind me a bit of the Bronx or something- their old bricks look incredibly nostalgic. That pic of Stanley Dock could easily be a scene from an American gangster movie. I really love these buildings- they are unbelievably huge and impressive. It's also really sad how they've ended up empty and abandoned when they quite clearly used to play such an important role. I hope these buildings are kept and turned into something new in the future. - what's the latest on Stanley Dock?

You wont believe the amount of Liverpool Docks that have been used in TV and Film productions:

Al's Lads in Particular

David Copperfield (BBC)

the list goes on...

Superb pics Juxtapol. Those abandoned warehouses, in their abandoned areas remind me a bit of the Bronx or something- their old bricks look incredibly nostalgic. That pic of Stanley Dock could easily be a scene from an American gangster movie. I really love these buildings- they are unbelievably huge and impressive. It's also really sad how they've ended up empty and abandoned when they quite clearly used to play such an important role. I hope these buildings are kept and turned into something new in the future. - what's the latest on Stanley Dock?

I'm Eagerly awaiting some positive action from Kitgrove the developers. They were supposed to be refurbishing the Jessey Hartley warehouse first, and demolishing some 1950s additions. Then tackling the larger Stanley Warehouse later. The plans they released as shown in the Echo looked great, but it's all gone a bit quiet...!

when are they gonna get turned into appartments?
Having said that property is quite cheap in Liverpool so maybe it's not cost effective?

The red hoardings in the first pic are for a Urban Space Development

See link below for some planning details.

Urban Space Development (http://councillors.liverpool.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetails.asp?Caller=mgDelegatedDecisions.asp&ID=867)


:)

when are they gonna get turned into appartments?
Having said that property is quite cheap in Liverpool so maybe it's not cost effective?Some parts of liverpool are relatively cheap, but some apartments in the Albert dock warehouses sell for around 1/2M.

Have a look here (http://www.cityresidential.co.uk/proppro/residential_sales/residential_sales.html) to see the price of some developments in Liverpool

Great pictures. I love these old warehouses. Always a shame when they are threatened with demolition, we've lost way too many of these old gems. Brilliant that Stanley dock warehouse is being renovated.

It brings it home how busy that whole area must have been.

http://img36.exs.cx/img36/1402/sd37ia.jpg

http://img146.exs.cx/img146/4760/sd40hq.jpg

http://img152.exs.cx/img152/236/sd69wv.jpg

http://img47.exs.cx/img47/1228/sd71ts.jpg

http://img139.exs.cx/img139/1135/sd88km.jpg

http://img208.exs.cx/img208/8830/sd98lv.jpg

Converting these old warehouses into apartments seems to be very popular, but I'd rather they were used more for mixed use schemes, like the Albert Dock and Stanley Dock (If it ever gets done...). The idea of allowing artists to use them is good, they'd make good galleries or museums.

Wouldn't mind living in one though. Great buildings these. :)

It brings it home how busy that whole area must have been.

It must have been truly amazing to see the hive of avtivity in the area when those warehouses were operational. :cheers:

I agree Kung, maybe with the upturn in the cities fortunes we will still see life in these, tho never on the scale of before!

Thanks for the warehouse thread. Always been fascinated with how these empty lonely buildings where the hub of Liverpool's trade not so long ago. :cheers:

Pics from the N.Docks area

West Bramley Moore Dock (1)
http://www.**************************/warehouse/ndocks.jpg

West Bramley Moore Dock (2)
http://www.**************************/warehouse/ndocks2.jpg

Boundary St (Gt Grandma/Grandad lived in Milford St, the first street on the right of the pic)
http://www.**************************/warehouse/boundaryst.jpg

it really does make you think about the massive amount of potential there is in liverpool to become a world city just look at daves second last phot , the site is massive!

it really does make you think about the massive amount of potential there is in liverpool to become a world city just look at daves second last phot , the site is massive!

Bust m8, just a bit of brain(?)storming on my part after reading your post. What does the Forum think about having a "Potential Development Area" thread?

Go for it Dave! :)

Bust m8, just a bit of brain(?)storming on my part after reading your post. What does the Forum think about having a "Potential Development Area" thread?

That could become a very large thread aswell dave, and you never knopw some aspuiring investors may just wake up to the massive potential that exists here! :cheers:

That could become a very large thread aswell dave, and you never knopw some aspuiring investors may just wake up to the massive potential that exists here! :cheers:


^ My thoughts exactly. :yes:

^ My thoughts exactly. :yes:

less of course my appauling spelling!

That West Bramley Moore Dock area must be worth a fortune, to any potential developer. Here is where some really modern buildings of large scale could be sited.

Scouserdave- That picture of West Bramley Moor Dock (2) with the city in the background- This is my new desktop wall paper. Cheers mate :)

Dave, middle picture (West Bramley Moore Dock 2) is fantastic. I am going to look at it a lot. I have never seen that view before. I think you have caught a classic Liverpool scene that no-one else knew existed until you had captured it.

Scouserdave- That picture of West Bramley Moor Dock (2) with the city in the background- This is my new desktop wall paper. Cheers mate :)
Dave, middle picture (West Bramley Moore Dock 2) is fantastic. I am going to look at it a lot. I have never seen that view before. I think you have caught a classic Liverpool scene that no-one else knew existed until you had captured it.

Thanks Blabb & Liverpolitan, a bit of a pain in the arse to capture that view. You require access to the Sandon Half Tide Dock, then climb over a barbed wire fence without falling into the Dock. It's also the only way to get to Jesse Hartley's Victoria Tower aka Dockers Clock.

BTW Last time I was in that warehouse, a Canada Goose came up from behind and hissed at me. I almost soiled my incontinence pads!

BTW Last time I was in that warehouse, a Canada Goose came up from behind and hissed at me. I almost soiled my incontinence pads!

here's the little bastud :bash:
http://www.**************************/development/bastard.jpg

:hahaha:

here's the little bastud :bash:
http://www.**************************/development/bastard.jpg
He/She looks a right ard little Ducker. :laugh:


By the way I noticed the other day the Seacat in dry dock up the dock road somewhere past the Stanley dock on the left.

He/She looks a right ard little Ducker. :laugh:


By the way I noticed the other day the Seacat in dry dock up the dock road somewhere past the Stanley dock on the left.

Probably in Canada Dry Dock for repairs/maintenance. That's also near to where they hauled that dead whale from the ship last year. Stunk to f**k :runaway:
http://www.**************************/development/whale.jpg

Eeeeeeeeeh! Where did that whale come from?

Eeeeeeeeeh! Where did that whale come from?
On route from Canada. For more info go to the icLiverpool news story (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=14446468&method=full&siteid=50061&page=1&headline=tugs-pull-body-of-40ft-whale-from-prow-of-ship-name_page.html) When you get to page 3, guess who's pics they link to? Waheyy :cheers:

:eek2: That's quite an amazing picture.

And good timing.

It must have been truly amazing to see the hive of avtivity in the area when those warehouses were operational. :cheers:

I wish I had a time machine.

That could become a very large thread aswell dave, and you never knopw some aspuiring investors may just wake up to the massive potential that exists here! :cheers:

That's exactly what a mate of mine does. They look for land for investors. His firm is called 'Profitable Plots.' He is based in London but has just merged company's and now has an office in Singapore. He was initially involved with Everton's King's Dock scheme before the council knocked it on the head.

Maybe I should direct him towards the area of Dave's photos.

I wish I had a time machine.
Fantasise about that all the time. Sad or what? :weirdo:

I too dream about time travel- there's nothing wrong with being a sci-fi nerd/dreamer. I'd probaby be a millionaire by now if I hadn't whiled away so many hours day-dreaming... D'Oh!

This looks similar to the Wharehouse with trees growing out of it, on Parliament St
http://www.123lcc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/post/zBonded Tea Wharehouses 3.JPG

Tall loading bay's.
http://www.123lcc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/post/zBonded Tea Wharehouses 4.JPG

Notice my photoedit of window (bottom right), had to clone another window due to a large sun glare spot covering that window. :)
http://www.123lcc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/post/zBonded Tea Wharehouses 10.JPG

Stanley Dock in the background.
http://www.123lcc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/post/zBonded Tea Wharehouses 11.JPG

This will be a fantastic area when fully renovated and buzzing with activity.

Just as a matter of interest,does the Liverpool Warehouse co still exist?

Just as a matter of interest,does the Liverpool Warehouse co still exist?
The new sign of a person juggling balls is the logo for the company that bought the Liverpool Warehousing Co. Wonder whats in this warehouse, is it just tea or other commodities.


A snippet from an internet search

Liverpool Warehousing Co., Ltd., 1895-1983

For many years the Liverpool Warehousing Company was the largest firm of warehouse keepers in the UK. Its main commodity was cotton. The firm became part of the Transport Development Group around 1986. The main offices of the Liverpool Warehousing Company were situated at 70 Pall Mall, Liverpool. The archives include minute books, legal and financial papers and also the records of sixteen of its subsidiary companies.

Is the tree's growing out of the warehouse a deliberate thing? :?

Is the tree's growing out of the warehouse a deliberate thing? :?That might be the part of the warehouse where they store the trees....! :hammer:

Thats a good point. If not warehouses then where do they store trees?

Thats a good point. If not warehouses then where do they store trees?

Forests! :)

The new sign of a person juggling balls is the logo for the company that bought the Liverpool Warehousing Co. Wonder whats in this warehouse, is it just tea or other commodities.


A snippet from an internet search

Liverpool Warehousing Co., Ltd., 1895-1983

For many years the Liverpool Warehousing Company was the largest firm of warehouse keepers in the UK. Its main commodity was cotton. The firm became part of the Transport Development Group around 1986. The main offices of the Liverpool Warehousing Company were situated at 70 Pall Mall, Liverpool. The archives include minute books, legal and financial papers and also the records of sixteen of its subsidiary companies.

:cheers:

Pisshead. :D

Will be great to see this done up to it's former glory, will miss those trees growing from the front top floors though :)

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9623/zbuddleiaunderwraps10dc.jpg

I can`t help thinking that with land prices rising rapidly and what with the footprint of some wharehouses and associated yards that they might become an endangered species anywhere near the city centre or docks in the very near future.

and many of them still provide local jobs but will be more profitable as sites for old or new apartments and towers.

A mixed bag indeed.

Please somebody tell me that something is being done to redevelop the Stanley dock buildings. They really used to inspire me when i came into liverpool, i think they're fantastic. Is it right that the main warehouse contains the most bricks of any building in the UK? I think they should keep all the old industrial paraphenalia around the building too in order to retain a bit of the industrial feel. Is the grain silo still under threat there?

Agree that development should be mixed use if possible, makes it more active.

Please somebody tell me that something is being done to redevelop the Stanley dock buildings. They really used to inspire me when i came into liverpool, i think they're fantastic. Is it right that the main warehouse contains the most bricks of any building in the UK? I think they should keep all the old industrial paraphenalia around the building too in order to retain a bit of the industrial feel. Is the grain silo still under threat there?

Agree that development should be mixed use if possible, makes it more active.

All the buildings are a part of the World Heritage site and are to be eventully restored and reused. The tobacco warehouse when built in 1900 was the worlds largest building in volume and I think is still the largest warehosue in the world. It was supposed to contain more bricks than any other in the world, but I believe an acient building in Iran is supposed to contain more bricks.

All the buildings are a part of the World Heritage site and are to be eventully restored and reused. The tobacco warehouse when built in 1900 was the worlds largest building in volume and I think is still the largest warehosue in the world. It was supposed to contain more bricks than any other in the world, but I believe an acient building in Iran is supposed to contain more bricks.

The largest Bonded Warehouse in the world.

Great thread. I went on a warehouse safari in L8 at weekend, and while I didn't find the warehouses I was after, I found some pretty amazing ones. If English Heritage have any business in Liverpool, it should be saving these buildings. A lot of them are burned out shells, and you wonder if some might collapse if they are left too long.

This one was my favourite. A series from where I first spotted it. This building is just stunning, it needs to be restored and it would be worth a mint. I wish I had some spare money, I'd buy it.

http://img417.imageshack.us/img417/4230/favewarehouse17tc.jpg

http://img417.imageshack.us/img417/8387/favewarehouse26vs.jpg

http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/8918/favewarehouse32ur.jpg

http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/5071/favewarehouse40yp.jpg

http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/5463/favewarehouse52pv.jpg

A beauty next to my favourite warehouse (will post in two lots)

http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/5283/nextdoor2fave18wn.jpg

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/2888/nextdoor2fave23si.jpg

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/5110/nextdoor2fave37po.jpg

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/9524/nextdoor2fave46jv.jpg

More of the same warehouse

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4714/nextdoor2fave52qo.jpg

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6157/nextdoor2fave61ih.jpg

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2690/nextdoor2fave74nb.jpg

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/7312/nextdoor2fave88pz.jpg

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5953/nextdoor2fave94ob.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9293/p10306784xf.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/6051/p10306791nn.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6708/p1030686a1oi.jpg

http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/2953/p1030692a7hn.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6889/p1030696a4ed.jpg

http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/8901/p1030699a6gv.jpg

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/5889/p10307020xh.jpg

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/9123/metcalf0wx.jpg

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/4749/metcalf27jn.jpg

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/6273/jamaica7mw.jpg

Poli, any photos you have of Liverpool 8,a nd any street adjacent to Liverpool 8, and any of docks from Parliamnet St to the Herc, send to Paul at
Toxteth (http://www.toxteth.net)

He will give credit to the picture taker to. Then there for ever.

Ok thanks John I will do that, I have a few more but I wont post them all tonight.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1412/dockrd16uf.jpg

Poli, Gareth and myself went walking down that end a fortnight ago. I couldn't believe the state of that massive warehouse behind the Urban Splash plot. It's a hollowed out shell and must be around 8 stoeys tall. I wonder if thy could tart up the adjacent warehouses, shore up the walls on the shell and whack a glazed roof on top. Then you'd have smart apartments with a massive conservatory/all weather garden fr residents. Quite a nice place for a bar IMO. :)

Fantastic pics poli... really atmospheric.

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/6647/taproom17nx.jpg

The Brewery Tap is a good pub to visit for a break while exploring the warehouses, I'd never been there before.

http://www.cainsbeers.com/index/articles_view.php?article_id=98&main_cat=&first_art=true&cat_id=47&main_cat=1&first_art=true&cat_id=47&main_cat=1&first_art=true&cat_id=47&main_cat=1&first_art=true&cat_id=47&main_cat=1&cat_id=47&main_cat=1

http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/3984/waktinsonst19ei.jpg

imageshack wont resize my pics today, will repost later

Poli,

These warehouse pics are absolutely superb. I love these old buildings, and there's a good few here I've not seen close up before.

I particularly like the first one from post #56. So dense, and I love the bricks and patterns.

:cheers: :cheers:

What's it like to walk round in those parts?

Poli these are great pics, post 57 the one with the doorway and windows bricked up is a real shame. These buildings are where EH should be focussing attention on, the area should have hundreds of flats and thousands of people living there, and it's own brewery!! Jamaica Street what a brilliant name for a street!!

Jamaica Street is a class name, isn't it?

I think this area of the city is an indictment on how pathetic and useless EH really are. Poking their noses in over trivial matters, where they aren't needed. Then completely failing real heritage like this.

It's unbelivable. And we have the evidence right here!

Poli,

These warehouse pics are absolutely superb. I love these old buildings, and there's a good few here I've not seen close up before.

I particularly like the first one from post #56. So dense, and I love the bricks and patterns.

:cheers: :cheers:

What's it like to walk round in those parts?

I went on a Sunday afternoon, it was pretty deserted, apart from some kids on bikes. There are walls and fences that make it harder than you realise to get around, you often have to walk around places to get where you want to get to. Near some houses there were some scallies driving round very dangerously in a little Fiesta at about 60 mph, which I admit put me off, as I dislike bad driving and find it intimidating as you never know when the little fuckers will lose control and mount the pavement.

So it's a bit weird. I was in a sort of dreamlike state, it's a very dreamy and weird place, silent and forlorn, and as Doug says you can imagine it regenerated and populated with loads of flats and businesses - it's probably Liverpool's greatest asset and you can imagine a quite beautiful district emerging there. The next moment you realise you are carrying your camera around one of the poorest areas of the City - you can quickly stray into areas with a bit of an edge, but it's no more of an edge that in parts of Brighton or London or anywhere else really, you should never relax entirely when you are carrying an expensive camera around a city.

Poli these are great pics, post 57 the one with the doorway and windows bricked up is a real shame. These buildings are where EH should be focussing attention on, the area should have hundreds of flats and thousands of people living there, and it's own brewery!! Jamaica Street what a brilliant name for a street!!

Thanks Doug, I agree with you 100%. This area is crying out for a long-term masterplan to create a new quarter. I can imagine it will take 20 plus years, it's big, but those warehouses should all be saved to form the foundation of a new modern quarter for the city.

Would be good to see the area supporting pubs like this again:

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6858/p10306371qp.jpg

Closer into town there are roads that lead down to the Dock Road that all offer great views, many are already either reasonably developed or on the cusp, although not all. I think any strategy to revive this area would need to pay attention to these roads down to the Dock Road. Then, and I think I might start another thread on this, there is a real problem with the way the Dock Estate has been developed in some of that area - the old Dock Wall has been pointlessly replaced by high railings that only serve to protect car parks and that effectively seal off the Docks.

An interesting Chinese theatre in this street, that I never knew existed - which reminds me of Tony's view that this particular area could be seen as a sort of stretched chinatown.

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/3562/p10306362an.jpg

Nothing special here, unless you like asbestos sheeting roofs I suppose, but an example of the proximity to other developments, and potential views that exist. You can imagine those premises being refurbished as good quality business units.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/6254/p10306632dj.jpg

And here's a photo of the Cathedral end. I can't believe how crappy this area is. It should be fantastic given the setting between the cathedral and the river. It should and extension of Chinatown, gradually bleeding into Toxteth.

SSC Quiz Question - Name the SSC forumer in the picture. :)

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8212/pict00831aw.jpg

Is it Poli?

Nope. :)

Awayo?

No. You've met him before, soft ollies. :)

No. You've met him before, soft ollies. :)

I haven't I've met Doug,Bustcapl,Martin S,you and Bunnyman so if it's one of them I'm indeed soft ollies. :)

I meant you've met the bloke in the pic, soft ollies. :)

I meant you've met the bloke in the pic, soft ollies. :)

:lol: it's Doug then.

:lol: it's Doug then.

http://vcard.homer-simpson.de/images/homer/pic18.jpg

Fuckin Hell mod delete these last few posts. :clown:

^^ Thicko. :crazy:

Its Shane McGowan. Ugly cunt. At least you captured his best side. :D

^^ Thicko. :crazy:

I refute that claim on the grounds that I don't look at lads arses when they go the bar. :)

I've been misinformed then. ;)

I've been misinformed then. ;)

:lol:

http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/6795/p10306500ly.jpg

http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/6795/p10306500ly.jpg

These types of buildings could easily form some sort of whole - with entrances from various directions and linking into some sort of atrium with developments above linking the new with the old.

A win win situation.

I do remember being taken through a warren of interconnecting corridors between a few `Wood Street` and other clubs many years ago. :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1845-ENTIRE-FASCINATING-LIVERPOOL-HISTORY_W0QQitemZ9524885635QQcategoryZ65145QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It's not mine (I don't sell things on e-bay) but a very interesting item.

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/6060/warehouse225ql.jpg

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/6060/warehouse225ql.jpg

Poli, excellent series of photos of a part of town that I for one have not visited for a very long time. As much as I would like to see someof these fine old warehouses renovated, is this the area that Windsor has in its sights for wholesale re-newal as part of the Baltic Triangle masterplan ?

Woody, I cannot remember where they are. There are some lovely ones around Norfolk, Watkinson and Jordan Streets, which I suppose might be close to the Baltic scheme? I haven't seen the masterplan, have you got a link to it? I'd like to see it. I am going to go on another trip to that ares as soon as possible, and will try to remember street names better.

Given that there is a vast amount of unused and under-used land in and around the city centre, literally acres of it, it would be criminal to destroy one single good Georgian or Victorian or Edwardian warehouse. There should be a masterplan that ensures that any regeneration in that area specifically incorporates as much as can be saved, including just fascias where the structure is effectively a shell.

It's not just the grand set-piece warehouses that matter, there are little gems, some in clusters, that need to be saved. There are relatively few of them left, and they are all precious, in my opinion - there should be none of this "some of them" - the presumption of the area masterplan should be to integrate all of them into new development proposals. I am very annoyed to read on this thread that they want to destroy a perfectly good building on the Dock Road, on the pretence that it is unsound. All around are swathes of empty and barely used land.

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/919/warhouse236gq.jpg

Just look at those lovely oval windows, they have the original iron gratings in them. You can just imagine those as the bathroom windows in a conversion, or perhaps letting light in on the communal staircase

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/8282/warehouse239hd.jpg

Ropewalks wouldn't be what it is becoming without a real density of preserved buildings. I think the streets around the main L8 warehouse clusters could one day look like this, but obviously a bit grander since a lot of them are bigger than the remaining old premises around Duke / Wood / Seel streets.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5246/rope99yp.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Poli, the streets that you named are in the Baltic Triangle. Perhaps I shouldn`t have called it a MASTERPLAN, Windsor along with other building owners would like to rebuild almost all the Baltic Triangle. Todate we have several sites up and running at the town end (around the Baltic Fleet ) and others like Rice Mill and a massive apartment scheme ( see post 178 on the BT thread ) in with the planners.

If Windsor and others do get approval for these schemes, it won`t be long before this warehouse area down to norton scrap yard is looked at ,as fair game for more apartments.

Although Windsor would like to demolish the Greenburg Building, they are also renovating existing structures, that would augar well for some of the more interesting buildings in the area that you have been recording.

[QUOTE=liverpolitan]
It's not just the grand set-piece warehouses that matter, there are little gems, some in clusters, that need to be saved. There are relatively few of them left, and they are all precious, in my opinion - there should be none of this "some of them" - the presumption of the area masterplan should be to integrate all of them into new development proposals. QUOTE]

Poli, I put my comments badly, when I said some, I was refering to some of the more recent additions that have little or no architectural merit.
These should go and the big or little gems incorporated into future developments.

Poli, the streets that you named are in the Baltic Triangle. Perhaps I shouldn`t have called it a MASTERPLAN, Windsor along with other building owners would like to rebuild almost all the Baltic Triangle. Todate we have several sites up and running at the town end (around the Baltic Fleet ) and others like Rice Mill and a massive apartment scheme ( see post 178 on the BT thread ) in with the planners.

If Windsor and others do get approval for these schemes, it won`t be long before this warehouse area down to norton scrap yard is looked at ,as fair game for more apartments.

Although Windsor would like to demolish the Greenburg Building, they are also renovating existing structures, that would augar well for some of the more interesting buildings in the area that you have been recording.

I was shocked to realise Greenburg's had closed down - didnt it used to be a shop that sold work uniforms and stuff? I never went in there, but it is a grand building. I am like a scratched record here, but developers need to be protected from themselves. They can add value by retaining character, history and authenticity in an area they are regenerating. Yes, it might cost a bit more to refurbish and sometimes it can be awkward, (compared to demolition and new building) but in the long-term the development and the surrounding modern buildings will surely have greater value? Well I could be wrong, it's just a supposition really. I come back to the point that there are too many empty lots being used for car parking or next to nothing to justify destroying quality old buildings of character.

Do you remember the gasps of horror when Dave posted up a picture of Lime Street taken from I think the steps of St George's Hall - showing what was there before St John's Precinct? Or the consternation expressed when people (including me) realised that where the sports shed is in Williamson Square was an really attractive building of character? At the time it is always justified on the grounds that "the developer will walk away". It's not true. We have to save the heritage as well as build anew. Liverpool is unique in having a lot to save without this having to be at the cost of regeneration - there are literally hundreds of sites to develop around the old buildings. It just needs a clear planning framework to make that happen.

[QUOTE=liverpolitan]
It's not just the grand set-piece warehouses that matter, there are little gems, some in clusters, that need to be saved. There are relatively few of them left, and they are all precious, in my opinion - there should be none of this "some of them" - the presumption of the area masterplan should be to integrate all of them into new development proposals. QUOTE]

Poli, I put my comments badly, when I said some, I was refering to some of the more recent additions that have little or no architectural merit.
These should go and the big or little gems incorporated into future developments.

Oh that's good, I was a bit concerned. :)

I was shocked to realise Greenburg's had closed down
- Do you remember the gasps of horror when Dave posted up a picture of Lime Street taken from I think the steps of St George's Hall - showing what was there before St John's Precinct? .

The Green burg building is a very fine building, but will be isolated by new build on all sides, Windsors plan for a 18 storey (?) tower was savaged by the planners and it is now back on the drawing board.
I agree with you that the Baltic Triangle could and should become a grander version of Ropewalks. Old and new side by side has worked very well, and should be replicated in the Baltic.

No gasps from me re: that Lime Street picture as I remember that area and the old market before St Johns was built :) The neon display was marvellous,just a pity we have lost the art (or will) to make building fun. Feature lighting of our heritage buildings is brilliant, but some areas of town should have a bit of jazzy neon splashed on their facades.

I was shocked to realise Greenburg's had closed down - didnt it used to be a shop that sold work uniforms and stuff? I never went in there, but it is a grand building. I am like a scratched record here, but developers need to be protected from themselves. They can add value by retaining character, history and authenticity in an area they are regenerating. Yes, it might cost a bit more to refurbish and sometimes it can be awkward, (compared to demolition and new building) but in the long-term the development and the surrounding modern buildings will surely have greater value? Well I could be wrong, it's just a supposition really. I come back to the point that there are too many empty lots being used for car parking or next to nothing to justify destroying quality old buildings of character.

Do you remember the gasps of horror when Dave posted up a picture of Lime Street taken from I think the steps of St George's Hall - showing what was there before St John's Precinct? Or the consternation expressed when people (including me) realised that where the sports shed is in Williamson Square was an really attractive building of character? At the time it is always justified on the grounds that "the developer will walk away". It's not true. We have to save the heritage as well as build anew. Liverpool is unique in having a lot to save without this having to be at the cost of regeneration - there are literally hundreds of sites to develop around the old buildings. It just needs a clear planning framework to make that happen.

Poli, far too much of our history and heritage has met with the bulldozer - some fine buildings have gone. It really has to stop. The waterways are being treated with open contempt as well.

Old buildings add value and quality developers know this.

Poli, am signing off ,my bed is calling me, thanks again for the excellent pics.

i love the architecture in this thread, and liverpool is truly blessed that it possesses such buildings in abundance. i shall pray to god that all of these beauties get saved and restored (even though they look fab in their ruinous state).

sadly about a half-dozen similar buildings on newcastle quayside have been burnt down in the past decade, usually to make way for exclusive apartments. while the new buildings look great, they're not a patch on the old warehouses. this one was burnt down just a few weeks back:

http://www.sine.ncl.ac.uk/image_collections/jpegs/3000_3299/linsley_003002.jpg

:( wish there was some sort of society established to protect our industrial heritage, though not an EH-type body, more concerned with stately homes than urban victoriana.

I think developers pay someone to do it myself.

Developers need to be incentivised to help prevent "accidental" fires starting in empty, boarded up buildings. Perhaps, once they have got planning permission, they should be locked into things in such a way that if a protected building gets burned down, they will have to pay to rebuild it. They will then protect the site, get a night watchman etc. Also, to guard against "accidents" earlier in the process, perhaps those applying for planning permission (or even change of use) should also be obliged to satisfy the Council that they have adequate fire safety arrangements, eg securing the premises properly, and possibly pay for a night watchman also.

Developers need to be incentivised to help prevent "accidental" fires starting in empty, boarded up buildings. Perhaps, once they have got planning permission, they should be locked into things in such a way that if a protected building gets burned down,

Land Value Tax. LVT is that you pay tax on the "value" of the land at all times, whether the buildings on it are occupied or not. If owned off-shore, they still have to pay – if not the house is repossessed and sold and the admin and taxes owed are taken off. That is all land with buildings on it or not. LVT eliminates income tax, so does not penalise a mans labour.

Pittsburgh had a Liverpool problem and introduced LVT - the boarded up buildings were renovated or sold and renovated.

Google "Henry George", "Georgism" and "land value Tax". Enlightening.

Though LVT is by no means the answer to everything, it is infinately better than the current system and should be investigated more.

This artist (Rob Davies, from the Wirral) has created some great illustations of the "warehouse" area. On this link scroll down to the heading "From Cains Brewery to Parliament Street"

http://www.fallingawakeillustration.com/70141/info.php?p=4&pno=0

Apparently they are for a book you can buy in "Polished T" gallery in Duke Street:

http://artinliverpool.com/robdavies/index.htm

Developers need to be incentivised to help prevent "accidental" fires starting in empty, boarded up buildings. Perhaps, once they have got planning permission, they should be locked into things in such a way that if a protected building gets burned down, they will have to pay to rebuild it. They will then protect the site, get a night watchman etc. Also, to guard against "accidents" earlier in the process, perhaps those applying for planning permission (or even change of use) should also be obliged to satisfy the Council that they have adequate fire safety arrangements, eg securing the premises properly, and possibly pay for a night watchman also.

It`s not just the "Accitental fires" (ho ho ho - yeah right.)

It is the accellerated decay used when `Upper windows are left open` and therefore the `elelments` take hold and the building is pushed beyond repair.

I`ve seen this many many many times around Liverpool, I think there may even be windows open in the `Royal Insurance` building North John Street.

It`s nothing short of criminal.

Yes, there have been a number of these 'accidental fires' in the past couple of years. Certainnly more than in any decade since the Blitz. Bridgewater Street warehouses (feautured in a number of the pics above) are on the brink of collapse since a fire there two years ago. How the frame is hol.ding itself together I don't know.
Also, earlier this year there was a fire adjacent to Stanley Dock - not that would have been VERY convenient!!!!

As for Greenberg's, I was under the impression that they'd moved the business out to Speke or somewhere?

Certainly the money on offer by property developers makes a lot of SMEs think twice about staying put. I know of a mechanic in the London Road area who has sold up recently. Ideally these businesses should be retained on the ground floor of 'mixed use' schemes, exactly the way they are in, for example, Spanish cities.

It`s not just the "Accitental fires" (ho ho ho - yeah right.)

It is the accellerated decay used when `Upper windows are left open` and therefore the `elelments` take hold and the building is pushed beyond repair.

I`ve seen this many many many times around Liverpool, I think there may even be windows open in the `Royal Insurance` building North John Street.

It`s nothing short of criminal.
Too true Pie. The irony is many of these buildings are "listed". It's incumbent for an owner of a "listed" building to maintain the property so it is safe and secure from the elements, there are scores of these buidings in Liverpool virtually roofless and LCC own some of them.Which begs the question:what the fuck are the conservation dept of LCC and EH doing about it? they're too busy sitting on panels rejecting modern developments for red brick 5 storey shite that is "in keeping" with the Albert Dock etc, that's what.

I think because the Bridgewater Street warehouses are built solidly in the first place, and have survived the internals being burnt out (nothing left to burn now), that the owner would have to accidently demolish the building, to see it reduced to rubble. The Buddlia project to refurbish a massive warehouse just up the road should help to generate interest in these old warehouses. I think they will be ideal for apartments, but are a bit cut off from Baltic/Ropewalks at the moment.

Too true Pie. The irony is many of these buildings are "listed". It's incumbent for an owner of a "listed" building to maintain the property so it is safe and secure from the elements, there are scores of these buidings in Liverpool virtually roofless and LCC own some of them.Which begs the question:what the fuck are the conservation dept of LCC and EH doing about it? they're too busy sitting on panels rejecting modern developments for red brick 5 storey shite that is "in keeping" with the Albert Dock etc, that's what.

That perhaps `Golden` is the crux of the matter but not were it is going to stay.

Those `hafless` councilors have had their run and they are at the wrong end of the stick but then they are not necessarily `first generation` hapless.

Hafless and hapless.

Sprague Bros.in Greenock St. the building is still in use, I hope it stays that way.


http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/51/greenockst13yx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/8200/greenockst28pm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3926/greenockst35rs.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3770/greenockst42hs.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Lovely pics Doug. I've never seen that building close-up before, only in the far distance in photos here. It's splendid, isn't it? Does anyone know if it's listed? I think the cobbles should be listed as well.

Thanks Pol, up close the building is special seems very warm and friendly yet industrial, the cobbles on the street are the original ones. I just hope that the wave of development can embrace Greenock St. and leave it intact.

I'd assume EH had a stategy for just that purpose, but maybe they have not yet got round to drawing up proactive and constructive strategies to protect Liverpool's architectural heritage? Does anyone know if they have a stategy or plan or anything I can look at that explains how they will protect the heritage of Liverpool? If it's "not their job", anyone know whose job it is, if anyone? I'm a bit gobsmacked there was no decent opposition to the Greenberg's demolition (and having seen now a drawing of what might replace it, it's nothing short of tragic).

As said millions of times, one of the greatest irritations with them is that these demolitions and continued deriliction is going on whilst they wank around crafting fantasy landscapes and focusing on limiting new stuff.


The city desperately needs sound conservation policies and then to rigidly enforce it!

I'm not sure if EH do have a stategic plan for Liverpool?? they seem to react mostly to individual new projects and screw them up.

I agree about the Greenberg building, I was very suprised that none of us had picked up the plan to knock it down. Around about the the time Windsor withdrew the planning application for the site, I think the Victorian Society, or some similar group, were talking about having the building listed to protect it, I was gutted to see those pictures showing being knocked down!! again it begs the question where was EH when they were needed??? I thought it was an excellent building and one worth struggling to keep.

I'd assume EH had a stategy for just that purpose, but maybe they have not yet got round to drawing up proactive and constructive strategies to protect Liverpool's architectural heritage? Does anyone know if they have a stategy or plan or anything I can look at that explains how they will protect the heritage of Liverpool? If it's "not their job", anyone know whose job it is, if anyone? I'm a bit gobsmacked there was no decent opposition to the Greenberg's demolition (and having seen now a drawing of what might replace it, it's nothing short of tragic).

saw that in another thread. it is heartbreaking to see a lovely building and our built heritage destroyed like that. i doubt it is architectually or historically significant, but then i'm against the whole attitude that only wants to save old buildings if they are worthy of textbook inclusion as if they were some oddity or rarity. there's a finite supply of old buildings therefore we should try and save as many as possible for future use, and not simply view them as museum pieces.

We may not have the view of these trees growing out from this warehouse soon

The Buddleia Project. Parliament/Jamaica St
The rear of this building is covered in scaffolding as it is under renovation. :cheers:
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/7364/zbudleiawarehouse0vp.jpg

Link to Buddleia Project (http://www.buddleia.org/)

We may not have the view of these trees growing out from this warehouse soon

The Buddleia Project. Parliament/Jamaica St
The rear of this building is covered in scaffolding as it is under renovation. :cheers:
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/7364/zbudleiawarehouse0vp.jpg

Link to Buddleia Project (http://www.buddleia.org/)

It`s a handsome building and it deserves a bright future.

It`s been neglected for far too long.....

:) A `roof garden / terrace` would be nice :cheers:

They`d just need to move the trees up a few floors ......

I think these 2 buildings at the lower end of Duke St. are fantastic, anyone know the origin of the name Humyak House?? sounds like it could be Canadian or Newfoundland.


http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/389/dsc02901qs0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/4979/dsc02902rg0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/2476/dsc02903ma1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I've put some warehouse photos to music (only used my own pics, by the way, but because a few of us photograph the same warehouses from the same position some of them look similar to pics by other people). The ending is supposed to be a trippy sort of extravaganza as you leave Lime Street station, but not sure it's worked as intended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-T0nrqdj04

Planning application recommended for approval for these warehouses to be converted to residential. The big warehouses just behind past the small back road to the left are not part of this scheme.

Planning application detail here (http://councillors.liverpool.gov.uk/Published/C00000307/M00006069/AI00034951/$Item10LandboundedbyNorfolkStreetJamaicaStreetWatkinsonStreetLiverpool1.docA.ps.pdf)

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4022/zwarehousesnorfolkst423ia7.jpg


The rear of the Buddlia project looking good, this is how the front will look. :cheers:
http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/9028/zbuddliajamaicast445ob9.jpg

Interesting, might be good, might not - it's a pity if that area is developed without a framework, as what happens on one side of that narrow road will affect that can / should happen on the other side. The lower warehouses in your picture are not threatened, are they? They talk about removing low-rise industrial buildings, surely they don't mean those glorious Victorian buildings that are just two and three stories high?

Having read the objections, those that concern tenure and affordability are to my mind unacceptable, as they suggest a time-warp of some 20+ years to the days when Liverpool was dieing as a city to live in or have hope for. The entire reason Liverpool got a Housing Market Renewal Pathfinder was because there was TOO MUCH affordable housing in areas of the city, meaning it was abandoned and the floor had fallen through the market. So it's by now means obvious that there is actually a shortage of "affordable" housing at all in L8 and surrounding areas. Moreover, to claim - as the objectors do - that there is "too much" of the type of accommodation being proposed - betrays ignorance of the reality that companies invest in new flats, deliberately keep them empty for a year or two, and put them on the market - as new - once the market has risen. It's not that there are too many, it's that the market has changed, and the days when a scheme had failed if there weren't curtains up in every window within a month of completion are long gone.

More importantly, there is a severe lack of middle class people in inner Liverpool, including Liverpool 8, and a severe shortage of middle class housing. To oppose a middle class housing scheme smacks of the most imbecilic of 1980s thinking, of Militant, of vile class hatred, and a fundamental lack of passion for the city itself. Some people are just embittered, selfish and do not love the city they live in - they cannot stand anyone to have better than they have, or to do better, or for the city to progress if it means someone else might earn a pound a year more or have a slightly nicer place to live. Perhaps the objectors should move somewhere else if they hate Liverpool so much, and allow people who have a more positive attitude to move in. The "let's build subsidised bungalows in the city centre" brigade are still at it, it seems, trying to kill of the re-birth of Liverpool.

Juxta, don't you think tarted up warehouses look a bit too smart? I keep waiting for the Albert Dock to revert to its more dignified deeper and more weather-beaten hue of old, and that wall on Buddlia looks new. I am not for a moment opposing renovation, it's vital - but you wish they could spray them with a patina of age once they have rebuilt them, so they don't look brand new.

Poli.

The low level buildings to be demolished are newer 70/80s addittions, look to the far right back of original picture to see what will be demolished. I would be annoyed if the lower warehouses were erased, they are great.

As for the opposition to new apartments by one councillor and some loony lefties, this is a bog standard objection that is allways made, i think the report dismisses the objections straight away, saying the area was assigned to be industrial but eff all has happened, so let it go residential, as that is where the demand/market is deciding what is best for this area. Also there was/is an abundance of affordable housing, so no need for more.

On old warehouses which look too new when renovated, i prefer them looking cleaned up, with new pointing,tiles,windows,doors etc, because they once looked like that anyway and will weather again over time. I prefer new renovated and utilised to unused and derelict. I do know what you mean about character/charm/ambience of run down buildings though. Would look weird if every old buildings in the city looked immaculate and clean.

Juxta, don't you think tarted up warehouses look a bit too smart? I keep waiting for the Albert Dock to revert to its more dignified deeper and more weather-beaten hue of old, and that wall on Buddlia looks new. I am not for a moment opposing renovation, it's vital - but you wish they could spray them with a patina of age once they have rebuilt them, so they don't look brand new.

Poli, agree to an extent.Some of the warehouse conversions around the Ropewalks look like new build.Worse though is the alterations that take place,such as at the Albert Dock,where the windows were enlarged and this is likely to happen at Stanley Dock, it's probably necessary but the building definitlely lose some character. All in all it's a price worth paying to conserve these buildings.