the three gorge dam make a lake in Yangtse Rive wich near 1.7 km wide over 600 km long and the depth near the great dam over 175m. its capacity over 60 billion tons water and can produce 22 billion kilowatt electric power which about 1.2% of china's electric power. even in china some people say that is a crazy and impossible project now but people in big city hope it can completed however Shanghai Nanjing Wuhan Chongqing's power lack just need one dam or one nuclear power station and dozens of common power stations.(in fact every cities in these four want build a nuclear power station because of be hard up power). but most important is scientists and gocment think it can solve flood peoblem, in 1998 Yangtse Rive's big flood's loss is over 1000 people dead and over 120 billion US dollars vanished.
http://files.photojerk.com/metallinestorm/sanxia1.jfif
http://files.photojerk.com/metallinestorm/sanxia2.jfif
http://files.photojerk.com/metallinestorm/sanxia3.jfif
http://files.photojerk.com/metallinestorm/sanxia4.jfif
http://files.photojerk.com/metallinestorm/sanxia5.jfif
http://files.photojerk.com/metallinestorm/sanxia6.jfif
http://files.photojerk.com/metallinestorm/sanxia7.jfif

china don't care about anybody but it own self only, if this dam is being built, the mekong delta will not flow into the southeast asian countries anymore. Therefore, the fish resources will halt up, and river will dried up later in the mean time.

china don't care about anybody but it own self only, if this dam is being built, the mekong delta will not flow into the southeast asian countries anymore. Therefore, the fish resources will halt up, and river will dried up later in the mean time.
but the Gezhou dam already cutted off Yangtse River about 20 years ago. this time china just build a more huge one not the first one.

looks big

Opponents of the dam are saying that the first thing Taiwan hits if China goes to war with it will be the three gorges dam.

This bridge looks very nice. About the damm: :omg:

Opponents of the dam are saying that the first thing Taiwan hits if China goes to war with it will be the three gorges dam.
of course that is a big problem. but just Taiwan force, that dam is safe, the dam in the center of chinese mainland taiwan island thousands km far and protected by high-tech weapons, taiwan force can't touch it. by the way, china used dam's modle to H-bomb explode test, they said a H-bomb must over about 1 million tons TNT power and explode very near(one general said about 100m above the dam top) the dam can be pulled down. but i am worry about terrorism, some crazy men may steal some H-bombs one day.
Opponents also say dam is just a big Belial, it can not work as scientists said, but chongqing port many disappear and no power can producted because of silt, and that big lake may bring earthquake if earthquke pull down the dam wuhan even nanjing shanghai may disappear. IMO it can finish flood history after all. if really so bad as opponents said we can open all the strobes as we never built it.

of course that is a big problem. but just Taiwan force, that dam is safe, the dam in the center of chinese mainland taiwan island thousands km far and protected by high-tech weapons, taiwan force can't touch it. by the way, china used dam's modle to H-bomb explode test, they said a H-bomb must over about 1 million tons TNT power and explode very near(one general said about 100m above the dam top) the dam can be pulled down. but i am worry about terrorism, some crazy men may steal some H-bombs one day.
Opponents also say dam is just a big Belial, it can not work as scientists said, but chongqing port many disappear and no power can producted because of silt, and that big lake may bring earthquake if earthquke pull down the dam wuhan even nanjing shanghai may disappear. IMO it can finish flood history after all. if really so bad as opponents said we can open all the strobes as we never built it.


I heard that the Chinese gov. is planning to put missles near the base. BTW if the dam does rupture the water can't go all the way to Shanghai or even Nanjing for that matter its too far.

china don't care about anybody but it own self only, if this dam is being built, the mekong delta will not flow into the southeast asian countries anymore. Therefore, the fish resources will halt up, and river will dried up later in the mean time.


Every country looks after its own interest first. China doesn't have the luxury of caring other people or country, its 1.3 billion pop. needs to survive and China needs the energy for development, naturally its selfishness is understandable.

I heard that the Chinese gov. is planning to put missles near the base. BTW if the dam does rupture the water can't go all the way to Shanghai or even Nanjing for that matter its too far.
shanghai or nanjing may not be direct destroied but 60 billion tons water and rush form 100m high that is not a little case. if railways, power stations, raw and processed materials for industry and people lives near big cities are destroied and thousands refugee appear in that area no big cities can exist.
a very big flood which have 60 billion tons can destory part of Huazhong plain and Huadong plain farms roads railways and many little towns cut off that area's power, great city must disappear after that big calamity.

Thanks for sharing, saw a video about this, massive is the word to describe it.

I love this dam, I think it was a very good idea for China to build it. They're gonna benefit from one of the most efficient sources of energy using water and gravity.

I read somewhere that they have solutions for pollution, water treatment plants, garbage management and sluice gates for sediment that the river will carry to the dam. I'm gonna have to visit this dam in the future. This dam is awesome.

the three gorge dam make a lake in Yangtse Rive wich near 1.7 km wide over 600 km long and the depth near the great dam over 175m. its capacity over 60 billion tons water and can produce 22 billion kilowatt electric power which about 1.2% of china's electric power. <snip>
[

I actually re-read this and for some reason I thought the dam will provide much more than 1.2% of China's total electric power. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought a dam this size would do much more for energy output.

I actually re-read this and for some reason I thought the dam will provide much more than 1.2% of China's total electric power. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought a dam this size would do much more for energy output.
thank you, i am very sorry, i need make clear about this. in 2004 china power wastage is 1980 billion kilowatt-hour but many area leak power and the dam producted 33.3 billion kilowatt-hour although just 12 generators was working in last year( it will be 22 or 24? in 2009), it just 1.68% of whole power but if china let Zhejiang Jiangsu Fujian province continue use electric power 33.3b just 1.4%( people in that province want have a normal lives need buy their own private generator). i find a data about 5 days ago, china need twice power in next ten years, china even plan build more than 40 nuclear generators only this plan can supply 40000MW power. but Huazhong or Huadong net can supply 40000MW now, that is mean China's 11 big net need a mass of power,even the dam's 24 very big generators are working together they just can supply about 1.4% at most in that year.

By Duncan Graham-Rowe - The New Scientist

Contrary to popular belief, hydroelectric power can seriously damage the climate. Proposed changes to the way countries’ climate budgets are calculated aim to take greenhouse gas emissions from hydropower reservoirs into account, but some experts worry that they will not go far enough.

The green image of hydro power as a benign alternative to fossil fuels is false, says Éric Duchemin, a consultant for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). “Everyone thinks hydro is very clean, but this is not the case,” he says.

Hydroelectric dams produce significant amounts of carbon dioxide and methane, and in some cases produce more of these greenhouse gases than power plants running on fossil fuels. Carbon emissions vary from dam to dam, says Philip Fearnside from Brazil’s National Institute for Research in the Amazon in Manaus. “But we do know that there are enough emissions to worry about.”

In a study to be published in Mitigation and Adaptation Strategies for Global Change, Fearnside estimates that in 1990 the greenhouse effect of emissions from the Curuá-Una dam in Pará, Brazil, was more than three-and-a-half times what would have been produced by generating the same amount of electricity from oil.

This is because large amounts of carbon tied up in trees and other plants are released when the reservoir is initially flooded and the plants rot. Then after this first pulse of decay, plant matter settling on the reservoir’s bottom decomposes without oxygen, resulting in a build-up of dissolved methane. This is released into the atmosphere when water passes through the dam’s turbines.
“Drawdown” regions

Seasonal changes in water depth mean there is a continuous supply of decaying material. In the dry season plants colonise the banks of the reservoir only to be engulfed when the water level rises. For shallow-shelving reservoirs these “drawdown” regions can account for several thousand square kilometres.

In effect man-made reservoirs convert carbon dioxide in the atmosphere into methane. This is significant because methane’s effect on global warming is 21 times stronger than carbon dioxide’s.

Claiming that hydro projects are net producers of greenhouse gases is not new (New Scientist print edition, 3 June 2000) but the issue now appears to be climbing up the political agenda. In the next round of IPCC discussions in 2006, the proposed National Greenhouse Gas Inventory Programme, which calculates each country’s carbon budget, will include emissions from artificially flooded regions.

But these guidelines will only take account of the first 10 years of a dam’s operation and only include surface emissions. Methane production will go unchecked because climate scientists cannot agree on how significant this is; it will also vary between dams. But if Fearnside gets his way these full emissions would be included.

With the proposed IPCC guidelines, tropical countries that rely heavily on hydroelectricity, such as Brazil, could see their national greenhouse emissions inventories increased by as much as 7% (see map). Colder countries are less affected, he says, because cold conditions will be less favourable for producing greenhouse gases.

Despite a decade of research documenting the carbon emissions from man-made reservoirs, hydroelectric power still has an undeserved reputation for mitigating global warming. “I think it is important these emissions are counted,” says Fearnside.

I find it somewhat disturbing to hear people blatantly decry the building of this project. It is truly incredible in size and ambition. Of course this project will have an effect on the wildlife in the region. Of course there are concerns of terrorism, war, structural disaster and everything else between. For this project to even be started, more than a million people had to be relocated.

I think it's important that people realize that developing countries usually push the envelope of design and structure. Look at the US in 1930's with the construction of the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA). It was the largest project of its kind to be undertaken up to that point and was necessary for many of the same reasons... the need for more electric power, inland shipping and transportation, and future wildlife and recreational areas.

I find it hard to believe that anyone today would bemoan that development, and I feel confident that 50 or 70 years from now few people will bemoan the Three Gorges project.

i must say some words. the three gorge dam's major is control Yangtse River flood not as a power station. it only supply 1.5% electric power, but it can stop the big flood such as what happened in 1998. china lost many money because of that flood about 3 times of the three gorge project's value and over 1000 people dead. if we had dam and we control it well, that flood can't happen.
maybe this project is the next century's peoject, human's mind and emotion can't resist this big one's impact now. 500 years ago, no people thought a bridge can connect Yangtse River's North and South, chinese called the River natural moat, some famous wars that weak force win because they used the River better, but we have more than 10 briges just in Chongqing City, people form south to north may be just for say hello to their friends.

I find it somewhat disturbing to hear people blatantly decry the building of this project. It is truly incredible in size and ambition. Of course this project will have an effect on the wildlife in the region. Of course there are concerns of terrorism, war, structural disaster and everything else between. For this project to even be started, more than a million people had to be relocated.

I think it's important that people realize that developing countries usually push the envelope of design and structure. Look at the US in 1930's with the construction of the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA). It was the largest project of its kind to be undertaken up to that point and was necessary for many of the same reasons... the need for more electric power, inland shipping and transportation, and future wildlife and recreational areas.

I find it hard to believe that anyone today would bemoan that development, and I feel confident that 50 or 70 years from now few people will bemoan the Three Gorges project.

I agree with this post.

China is doing what it needs to do to support it's 1.2 billion+ people. If this dam is going to help with that then it should be done.

I find it somewhat disturbing to hear people blatantly decry the building of this project. It is truly incredible in size and ambition. Of course this project will have an effect on the wildlife in the region. Of course there are concerns of terrorism, war, structural disaster and everything else between. For this project to even be started, more than a million people had to be relocated.

I think it's important that people realize that developing countries usually push the envelope of design and structure. Look at the US in 1930's with the construction of the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA). It was the largest project of its kind to be undertaken up to that point and was necessary for many of the same reasons... the need for more electric power, inland shipping and transportation, and future wildlife and recreational areas.

I find it hard to believe that anyone today would bemoan that development, and I feel confident that 50 or 70 years from now few people will bemoan the Three Gorges project.


Can't agree with you more, I second that.

china don't care about anybody but it own self only, if this dam is being built, the mekong delta will not flow into the southeast asian countries anymore. Therefore, the fish resources will halt up, and river will dried up later in the mean time.

WTF? it's not even on the Mekong river. It's on Yangtze.

People are protesting this project for one of three main reasons:

1 - Over 2 million people are being re-located by force, including some villages that have been in the same spot virtually untouched by civilization and technology for thousands of years. And the housing that they are building for these people is considered a "step down" in quality at best.

2 - The Three Gorges is not only naturally beautiful, but it's a huge tourist draw. And now it's going to be underwater.

3 - The reservoir the dam is creating just might be the most polluted body of water on earth, because not only are they not clearing out man-made infrastructure, they're dumping all kinds of raw industrial waste and toxins into it like it's a giant sewer. The reservoir has just begun to fill up and even by its own government standards, it's polluted... badly.

BONUS 4 - This dam is 600 feet tall and a mile wide. And during construction they've found massive cracks in it. God forbid if this dam ever failed it would make previous Yangtze floods look like a picnic.


** I'm not saying I agree with these arguments and that the pros outweigh the cons, I just thought I'd put these up for people to think about.

he just want to agitate other uninformed people to continue their hatred of China.:hahaha:

:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:

there are somrthing more
http://files.photojerk.com/metallinestorm/sanxiaa.jfif
http://files.photojerk.com/metallinestorm/sanxiab.jfif
http://files.photojerk.com/metallinestorm/sanxiac.jfif

although the Three Gorges Dam has a large power capacity (22 MW) against 15 MW from Itaipu Dam. Itaipu still produces more energy per year due to the Paraná River being more constant the the Yang Tze river.

here is the three gorge dam!
http://files.photojerk.com/metallinestorm/dam.jfif

People are protesting this project for one of three main reasons:

1 - Over 2 million people are being re-located by force, including some villages that have been in the same spot virtually untouched by civilization and technology for thousands of years. And the housing that they are building for these people is considered a "step down" in quality at best.

2 - The Three Gorges is not only naturally beautiful, but it's a huge tourist draw. And now it's going to be underwater.

3 - The reservoir the dam is creating just might be the most polluted body of water on earth, because not only are they not clearing out man-made infrastructure, they're dumping all kinds of raw industrial waste and toxins into it like it's a giant sewer. The reservoir has just begun to fill up and even by its own government standards, it's polluted... badly.

BONUS 4 - This dam is 600 feet tall and a mile wide. And during construction they've found massive cracks in it. God forbid if this dam ever failed it would make previous Yangtze floods look like a picnic.


** I'm not saying I agree with these arguments and that the pros outweigh the cons, I just thought I'd put these up for people to think about.

These are (a small fraction of the) reasons to build this dam, that respond to your point :
1 : you can choose having 2M people moved away at one, or dozens of millions being flooded periodically (with a number of casualties), tell me which you do prefer...
2 : considering the Yangtze valley as a natural sanctuaire seems to me like the strangest idea. It is the economic heart of China, so you can't really stop development there just because it is a 'nice place'. And 200m won't make so much of the difference in a 1km deep valley. you won't see the dam, just a lake, so it doesn't affect the landscape in a too ugly manner, it will just change it.
3 : actually, this applies with o without the dam. The real issue seems to me to be the waste management in China. In France, it only took two years for the Leman Lake to be clean again, after the build up of a new sewage system (Leman is roughly 15km*50km*400m). Now it is so clean there are less weed, so there are fewer fish in the lake!!!!
4 : assouan in Egypt is a construction of the same kind, and no one is making apocalyptic predictings about it.

By Duncan Graham-Rowe - The New Scientist

Seasonal changes in water depth mean there is a continuous supply of decaying material. In the dry season plants colonise the banks of the reservoir only to be engulfed when the water level rises. For shallow-shelving reservoirs these “drawdown” regions can account for several thousand square kilometres.

In effect man-made reservoirs convert carbon dioxide in the atmosphere into methane. This is significant because methane’s effect on global warming is 21 times stronger than carbon dioxide’s.

Actualy, the name "Three Gorges Dam" speaks for itself : the Yangtze valley, is very steep there, so this risk in insignificant.

HUGE..........
but still feel sorry bout village people who have to move.........
and those old houses will be under water................

Damn!!! hahahahahahahahahahaha

They had a program (partly) about this on CNN, impressive at $30 billion or so the cost of this, but what happened to the people and I've seen that before and now isn't good.

Anyways, definately one of the world's greatest projects size-wise, complexity, cost and importance.

:master::master::master: Maybe one of the most important construction of the world history!

The project is a disaster waiting to happen. First of all it floods a huge area of a land and second of all it is built in an earthquake prone area.

i despise this project with passion

I love this project, so glad to see it come to life. :)

The project is a disaster waiting to happen. First of all it floods a huge area of a land and second of all it is built in an earthquake prone area.


This project was meant to prevent flood disasters. Before building this dam I am confident that engineers have considered all the possibility of what could go wrong.

This project was meant to prevent flood disasters. Before building this dam I am confident that engineers have considered all the possibility of what could go wrong.
Prevent floods? Yeah, just like what the Shimantan and Banqiao dams were supposed to. This is an absolute disaster. They don't have the same standards of construction and maintenance in China as they do in developed countries. The only reason for the construction of this is foolish national pride.

tell those to family members of people died in 1998.

good news, we can go to the top and visit it now. but every day only 1000 people can do this.
http://files.photojerk.com/metallinestorm/dam1.jfif
http://files.photojerk.com/metallinestorm/dam2.jfif
http://files.photojerk.com/metallinestorm/dam3.jfif
http://files.photojerk.com/metallinestorm/dam4.jfif

Very impressive and so massive. In China, everything is bigger... ;)

Very impressive and so massive. In China, everything is bigger... ;)

Maybe not everything..... :runaway:

So did they figure out that silt or whatever problem? I remember watching a program on it and they said they might have a problem with silt buildup under the dam, or something.

tell those to family members of people died in 1998.

Tell that to the 200,000 + people who were killed when those dams burst.

Ugh, hopefully it won't cause a disaster.

People are protesting this project for one of three main reasons:

1 - Over 2 million people are being re-located by force, including some villages that have been in the same spot virtually untouched by civilization and technology for thousands of years. And the housing that they are building for these people is considered a "step down" in quality at best.

2 - The Three Gorges is not only naturally beautiful, but it's a huge tourist draw. And now it's going to be underwater.

3 - The reservoir the dam is creating just might be the most polluted body of water on earth, because not only are they not clearing out man-made infrastructure, they're dumping all kinds of raw industrial waste and toxins into it like it's a giant sewer. The reservoir has just begun to fill up and even by its own government standards, it's polluted... badly.

BONUS 4 - This dam is 600 feet tall and a mile wide. And during construction they've found massive cracks in it. God forbid if this dam ever failed it would make previous Yangtze floods look like a picnic.


** I'm not saying I agree with these arguments and that the pros outweigh the cons, I just thought I'd put these up for people to think about.

Pure lies.

Tell that to the 200,000 + people who were killed when those dams burst.

I'd like to tell you who are going to be killed in the next car accident when you're walking on the street.

Tell that to the 200,000 + people who were killed when those dams burst.
wow, are you a terrorist? can you tell me how to get a nuclear bomb and how to fix it in the dam?

have to wonder if some of you get the news when we see such big denials

I would like to see a sattellite photo of before the dam was built and then after the dam was built - does anybody have one ?

wow, are you a terrorist? can you tell me how to get a nuclear bomb and how to fix it in the dam?

Wow, I think I'll spend some time to clarify all this. I don't think you guys got what I was saying. I'm saying this project is a disaster waiting to happen because it is built in an earthquake zone. I was making reference to the Shimantan and Banqiao dam disasters. Those dams were poorly run and burst. The ensuing flash flood killed over 200,000 people.

The point I was making is that sure it will prevent flooding in that area which hurt a few thousand people, but because it is built in a unstable area when it bursts many more people will die. It's history repeating itself.

Pure lies.

So you actually believe that nationalist propaganda. Wow you are naive.

So you actually believe that nationalist propaganda. Wow you are naive.

I believe the truth, your dumb.

BTW, you should first tell those americans living in the washington state, that grand coulee dam is built in the earthquake prone western coast of america. They are doomed. Run, run for their lives, LOL liar.

Damn I wonder what'll be the consequence if the damn burst under pressure or a foreign power decide to bomb it.

Wow, I think I'll spend some time to clarify all this. I don't think you guys got what I was saying. I'm saying this project is a disaster waiting to happen because it is built in an earthquake zone. I was making reference to the Shimantan and Banqiao dam disasters. Those dams were poorly run and burst. The ensuing flash flood killed over 200,000 people.

The point I was making is that sure it will prevent flooding in that area which hurt a few thousand people, but because it is built in a unstable area when it bursts many more people will die. It's history repeating itself.
you are wrong, Yangtse river is very big and china lost more than 2000 people and over 120 billion US dollars because of the big flood in 1998. if the dam break down that is a big problem, but comparer with US Russia or Chinese nuclear weapon depository that is nothing. by the way, who tell you that area is unstable, in fact Yangtse river cut off that mountain area so we can see three gorge now, that area must not changed by earthquake millions years, experts worried about the big reservoir can change this or not.

Damn I wonder what'll be the consequence if the damn burst under pressure or a foreign power decide to bomb it.

maybe no country decide bomb it only terrorist want do that. bomb it must use nuclear bomb and use advanced ICBM. there only few country has that ability. but if do that, Chinese army must retaliate it and use their ICBM and load nuclear bomb. no one want see and accept that.

:eek2: :eek2: This project is amazing! :eek2: :eek2:

Pure lies.

So you actually believe that nationalist propaganda. Wow you are naive.

The truth probably falls somewhere in between the ignorance of the Western media and the state-run Chinese news agencies. Yes people are being relocated, but it's probably not as horrible as the West would have you believe. Yes large cracks have been found in the dam during construction, but I'm pretty sure no one has ever built a concrete dam without a few. As far as the water quality goes, even CCTV reported that the reservoir water was failing inspections for cleanliness, so that I tend to believe.

@ Haber - I'd be willing to bet the Three Gorges won't suffer the same fate as the two dams you mentioned back in the 60s. Beijing knows the TGD is a symbol of national pride, and also that failure of the dam would be a nightmare of epic proportions not only envioronmentally but politically.

@ metallinestorm - I believe the '98 flood cost the government somewhere between $20 and $30 Billion U.S. dollars, which is why the cost of the dam was easily justified.

I believe the truth, your dumb.

BTW, you should first tell those americans living in the washington state, that grand coulee dam is built in the earthquake prone western coast of america. They are doomed. Run, run for their lives, LOL liar.
Well yea but this damn is way bigger and is sitting on a fault :bash:

@ metallinestorm - I believe the '98 flood cost the government somewhere between $20 and $30 Billion U.S. dollars, which is why the cost of the dam was easily justified.

$30 billion? the data i say come from Discovery not Chinese media. In fact, many people said may more than that, China media said we used nearly all Chinese soldier and resource near the Yangtse river to protect big cities. Wuhan,Nanjing,Shanghai are right but many other area in Hubei Jiangxi Jiangsu Zhejiang in big trouble, only Zhejiang Jiangsu and Shanghai ( jiangzhe area)GDP is about $250 billion in that year, now is about $400 billion if use PPP that is much much bigger, according to Weat media may $1200 billion, over 1/5 of China, add Wuhan and other provinces it may 1/3 of China, so China need a great dam.

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/1365/5808121hy.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/1579/5808137my.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2752/5808140zk.jpg
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http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2172/5808172ro.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4048/5808182em.jpg

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting (http://www.imageshack.us)

looks imposing, but the dam looks kinda crude. hopefully later construction would change that. the idea that the dam would burst is pure b.s. though. the last thing they would do is a shroudy construction job on a dam that they have been boasting about for years.

i find it hard to trust both the biased views that western media have on china and china's own claims about events within its borders. i really wish that we can get unbiased, non-exaggerated information on what positive/negative impact does this project have on the chinese people. but i guess that'll be hard to come by as china and the u.s. escalate their fight against each other for economic dominance.

i find it hard to trust both the biased views that western media have on china and china's own claims about events within its borders. i really wish that we can get unbiased, non-exaggerated information on what positive/negative impact does this project have on the chinese people. but i guess that'll be hard to come by as china and the u.s. escalate their fight against each other for economic dominance.

I fully agree.

looks imposing, but the dam looks kinda crude. hopefully later construction would change that. the idea that the dam would burst is pure b.s. though. the last thing they would do is a shroudy construction job on a dam that they have been boasting about for years.

i find it hard to trust both the biased views that western media have on china and china's own claims about events within its borders. i really wish that we can get unbiased, non-exaggerated information on what positive/negative impact does this project have on the chinese people. but i guess that'll be hard to come by as china and the u.s. escalate their fight against each other for economic dominance.
in fact, this bigget one still underconstruction, many work need do, we can just see a rudiment now.
IMO, everyone has his own view about this project, that is my right. goverment and media do many things persuade some people change his view so they can do their works and make money. IMO china need hear scientists' advice and do more work for a bare possibility, chinese must prepare for disaster which may never happen, others has no business.
i thanks all people care about chinese but many people just know this dam's negative side. It's a cost china need pay, we need a dam to make sure Yangtse river not destroy the cities towns and villages near it year by year.

I saw a show on the discovery channel about this project last night. The Dam itself is done. All the concrete I mean. But they are still building the Turbines to create Electicity. When all 32 Massive Turbines are built and in place. This Dam will give China 10% of all it's Electicity. Which will drastically cut back the amount of coal China burns. Which in turn will be a big plus to the environment. Also, the deeper water makes it much easier for ships to bring goods to the Cities.

:) :) :) :runaway: :)

Those images of the water are impressive!!

Is still under construction?

What cities/towns were built for those who had to be evacuated? Are there any pics about them? I've heard that alltough these new buildings are not architectural jewels, they mostly are better than what they replaced.

new fotos?

this damn is amazing. and im glad it is around. This is much better then the alternitive of china building a dozen or more coal power plants, or a few nuclear plants... sure this will have an enviromental impact but it is a hell of alot less then the constant crap that will be coming out if this were coal. or a nuclear with a chance of a melt down, now that would be a disaster for china!

God dam

God dam

:lol:



Anyway, I wonder if there's anyone in the area that would like to take some pictures for us. I'm so glad they decided to go through with this project. I'm gonna have to see it for myself when I go to China. :)

:lol:
I just remembered tbe Beavis and Butthead Do America movie, where, when visiting the hoover dam, the guide says "Any questions?" and Beavis says, "Is this a God dam?"

I saw a show on the discovery channel about this project last night. The Dam itself is done. All the concrete I mean. But they are still building the Turbines to create Electicity. When all 32 Massive Turbines are built and in place. This Dam will give China 10% of all it's Electicity. Which will drastically cut back the amount of coal China burns. Which in turn will be a big plus to the environment. Also, the deeper water makes it much easier for ships to bring goods to the Cities.

:) :) :) :runaway: :)

I saw it too, it will on air again tomorrow on Discovery.
http://dsc.discovery.com/tvlistings/series.jsp?series=24653&gid=0&channel=DSC (http://dsc.discovery.com/tvlistings/series.jsp?series=24653&gid=0&channel=DSC) The link

I saw a show on the discovery channel about this project last night. The Dam itself is done. All the concrete I mean. But they are still building the Turbines to create Electicity. When all 32 Massive Turbines are built and in place. This Dam will give China 10% of all it's Electicity. Which will drastically cut back the amount of coal China burns. Which in turn will be a big plus to the environment. Also, the deeper water makes it much easier for ships to bring goods to the Cities.

:) :) :) :runaway: :)
i hope so, but unluckly this big dam just can generate 20 million Kw electric power, but last year(2005), chinese power plant can generate 480 million Kw electric. So this great dam just supply 4.2% chinese electricity. Most important, chinese need more 25 million Kw electric power capacity last year. Now, people decide build more nuclear power plant and will expropriate some great beautiful beach, so some people hate the nuclear power.
The most important purpose for this dam is prevent flood.

People love the nuclear stations when compared to coal ones. ;)

God dam indeed. I am surprised at how little power the Three Gorges facility produces, given its size and geographical impact.

Does anyone have good pictures of the dam and the surrounding area? I have a feeling that the dam is in a pretty remote area that isn't close to any big cities. Searching google for pictures yeilds pathetic results.

the top says 1000 people can die, thats wrong...its over 10 million or 100 mill i believe...i read something about this in school

People love the nuclear stations when compared to coal ones. ;)

God dam indeed. I am surprised at how little power the Three Gorges facility produces, given its size and geographical impact.


LITTLE??

It produces 20,000MW of electricity...

That's like 10 Nuclear powerplants producing 2,000mw each.

Does anyone have good pictures of the dam and the surrounding area? I have a feeling that the dam is in a pretty remote area that isn't close to any big cities. Searching google for pictures yeilds pathetic results.
of course not near the city. this great dam is protected by Su-30 fighters, missile base and many soldiers. no ship can approach the dam, they pass the dam from a ship gate behind a hill. there are only 3000 visiters can go to the top of this great dam each day.
here are some photos find in chinese web
http://www.sxtp.com/oldVersion/image/tpk/1150_1.jpg
http://www.hp163.net/Article/Clothing/Principle/200507/608.html
http://www.sxtscp.com/sxly/sxlyupfile/200602/20060212193459622.jpg
http://img.hc360.com/cm/info/images/2006011110341056bb8.jpg
http://www.yangtzeholiday.com/images/upjindian/123.jpg

Oh my God!! :eek2: :eek2:

Very impressive!

Wow, thanks metallinestorm. It's good to know that the dam is well protected because it should be. I think it was a very good idea to build this dam. I hope there aren't too many problems upriver as the water fills in.

It's such a massive dam indeed.

Some sources report that this is the most expensive project mankind has ever undertaken.

Another wonder place in modern era.

Thanks for posting the nice Photo's. Also, aren't they also suppose to build some state of the art building near the Dam? I thought I heard something like that awhile back.
:) :) :)

^^^really??^^^.

Also, aren't they also suppose to build some state of the art building near the Dam? I thought I heard something like that awhile back.
:) :) :)
may be in Yichang which city very close to the dam. imo, this dam is not use for visite, in fact it will become more and more dangereous if build more and more building near here, terrorist may use these buildings to destroy dam. Now, people can go to the top of dam, but must belowe 3000 every day.

Actually I'm against this project...

me too Rach... way too much damage to the environment

The controversial mega dam will be on Discovery channel tonight (4-23-2006) 7-9pm US eastern time:

China's mega-dam

a nice program introducing the largest dam in the world. the dam will be finish soon.

Source: xinhuanet.com, 23 April 2006
The dam is now near completion.
Total length: 2309m
Height: 181m
Width of bottom: 124m
Width of top: 15m

1
http://news3.xinhuanet.com/photo/2006-04/23/xin_57204032320097340863239.jpg
2
http://news3.xinhuanet.com/photo/2006-04/23/xin_572040323200987529983240.jpg
3
http://news3.xinhuanet.com/photo/2006-04/23/xin_582040323200901528769241.jpg
4
http://news3.xinhuanet.com/photo/2006-04/23/xin_582040323200914032137242.jpg
5
http://news3.xinhuanet.com/photo/2006-04/23/xin_582040323200928118427243.jpg
6
http://news3.xinhuanet.com/photo/2006-04/23/xin_58204032320094211744244.jpg
7
http://news3.xinhuanet.com/photo/2006-04/23/xin_582040323200956221503245.jpg
8
http://news3.xinhuanet.com/photo/2006-04/23/xin_582040323200968725304246.jpg
9
http://news3.xinhuanet.com/photo/2006-04/23/xin_582040323200982822734247.jpg
10
http://news3.xinhuanet.com/photo/2006-04/23/xin_582040323200996815966248.jpg

Wow!!! very stunning updates, This dam is really amazing.
When will it be completed?

the dam will be completed in this month! the total dam workload is 16.1 million stere concrete and the undone workload is only 3000 stere concrete now, 0.2%

“向坝顶冲刺!”三峡大坝建成在即
2006年05月05日 10:24:37 　来源：新华网综合

新华网宜昌５月４日电（记者江时强　余国庆）举世瞩目的三峡大坝预计今年５月底全线建成，目前正进入最后的大坝建设冲刺阶段。

三峡大坝全长２３０９米，设计坝顶海拔高程１８５米，混凝土浇筑总量１６１０万立方米，是世界上规模最大的钢筋混凝土大坝。根据防洪、发电、航运的需要，左岸大坝已于２００２年１０月建成，右岸大坝于２００３年７月开始浇筑。三峡右岸大坝总浇筑混凝土４３０万立方米。记者了解到，目前右岸大坝全面建成只余下３０００多立方米混凝土，仅有两个施工坝段没有浇筑到１８５米高程，预计大坝全线完工将提前９个月。

“五一”期间，记者来到繁忙的三峡工地，登上高耸的坝顶，只见左、右岸大坝已浑然连成一体，横卧峡江，奔腾的长江在雄伟的大坝前显得十分安详。

数百名三峡建设者正奋战在右岸坝顶。施工单位青云水利水电公司和葛洲坝集团公司的旗帜迎风飘扬，“大坝建成挡水倒计时牌”立在坝顶迎水面一侧，指挥员边吹哨边打着小旗，指挥巨大的塔吊来回将钢筋、混凝土从坝下运到坝顶施工仓位，在旁边监理的指导下，工人们正在将混凝土一层层摊铺浇筑到位，到处是一派紧张而有序的施工景象。

葛洲坝集团公司负责施工的坝段已基本浇筑至１８５米，工人们正忙碌着浇水养护大坝。公司测量员胡峰正和几名同事测量垫石高程，他说：“浇水养护是大坝防裂的一道工序，三峡工程质量无小事，任何一道工序都不能出事，右岸大坝目前没有发现裂缝，这和每一个三峡建设者的质量意识分不开。”

三峡大坝全线建成，标志着三峡主体工程完工。右岸大坝项目总监理时会良告诉记者，三峡工地实行“零安全事故、零质量缺陷”的“双零”管理模式，右岸大坝施工一个仓位落实一个责任人，对混凝土浇筑质量严格监控。“最后的阶段，我们不能有任何懈怠，必须保证向党和人民交一份满意的答卷。”

I visited the dam last year around july. Then if i remember correctly it was about 3/4 complete. The most amazing thing for me was the shiplocks, not the sheer size of the dam. The width of the wall was huge, but i didnt find the height that impressive. I thought it would have been larger, but it was still a magnificant, amazing project to witness.

Fascinating project. It's just unfortunate that so many ancient villages and temples that are part of China's history had to be abandoned and destroyed to make way for the rising waters created by the dam.

If this dam performs its functions well, it will bring many benefits despite the environmental consequences. Flooding on the river will be controlled. Much electric power will be generated.

If this dam performs its functions well, it will bring many benefits despite the environmental consequences. Flooding on the river will be controlled. Much electric power will be generated.

Most of the benefits will be reaped by relatively affluent city-dwellers rather than the poor.

Most of the benefits will be reaped by relatively affluent city-dwellers rather than the poor.
um. lets see, rich getting benefit and poors get left out. I thought that was precisely the philosophy of america, so why would you care?

shit that is one hell of a project

um. lets see, rich getting benefit and poors get left out. I thought that was precisely the philosophy of america, so why would you care?

Im america most of the poor live in the citys, and we dont have alot of villages/slums.

agh, long comment lost to the ether...
my point was that which is better.
1bn chinese living sustainably in a rural setting, living locally, and sustainably from what they grow. Dying in their 100s in coal mines, working all day in sweat factories, making cheap plastic throwaway products for Western society, destroying their environment, living in polluted cities in high-rise apartments. Throwing away their bicycle to join the rat-ace.
They might earn more but farmers living in communities living off the land in a rural setting suffer for earning < $1 a day. They might be financially poor but they dont need it. The West classifies poor people sometimes as not having money - but that's not everything that makes somebody live happily.

Agree that they don't really need to be financially rich. But they do want to live comfortably. And earning less than $1 a day isn't going to help them do that. Even you don't need to be financially rich. So why don't you grow your own food, forget about education and live happily? You get what I mean now? They'd want their children to go to college. Its not all just about cars.

Its not as simple as it might sound to you. Just take care of farm and live happily. No its more than that. You need cloths, transportation and education. And those cannot be obtained without money.

um. lets see, rich getting benefit and poors get left out. I thought that was precisely the philosophy of america, so why would you care?

Yes, this does tend to happen quite often in the U.S., which is something I happen to care deeply about. But pointing that out does nothing to affect my original point about the Three Gorges Dam. Don't attempt to divert criticism of your own country's problems by pointing out the problems of another country. It's very disingenuous. So instead of making overly-defensive and illusory attacks that do nothing to advance the debate, why don't you try formulating a civilized, substantive response.

^^ you don't have the moral high grounds to criticize other people who you are guilty of the same crime yourself.

^^ you don't have the moral high grounds to criticize other people who you are guilty of the same crime yourself.
Well said.

terribly sorry wrong dam :)

i think the one i was talking of was in taiwan or somewhere

is this the dam which is killing the bottle nosed dolphin population off?

as the bottle nosed dolphin lives in the sea and the dam is built on a fresh
water river inside china, the answer to your question is no.


is this the dam which is killing millions of fish?


as building the dam doesn't require posioning fish to begin with, the answer
to your question is no.


is this the dam which is causing the people who live in t

he forests to die of stavation beacuse the is no fish.

as people who lived in the dam area lived in villages and small towns, there
were no people who lived in the forest, so i guess to your question is no.


is this the dam which cost 235 people there lives beacuse they were underpayed and not looked after!

as no one has died buiding this dam, the answer to your question is no.


is this the dam that the chinese built for no GOOD REASON ON EARTH APART FROM A FUCKING BIT MORE ELECTRICITY!

if wanting a bit more electricity is not a good reason for building a dam for a
country that's lacking power, then ... the answer to your question is yes.

have you taken your reality pill today? or the big men in white coats haven't
come to see you today?

^^ well thanks for clearing that up :)

it must be another dam i was thinking of and a different dolphin something about a dam was threatening some sort of dolphin i thought it was in china so thats all :)

Huge reservoirs by their nature alter the ecosystem and threaten some habitats while helping other habitats. The Chinese River Dolphin and the Chinese Paddlefish, for example, are on the edge of extinction and will lose habitat and suffer divided populations to the dam. Of the 3,000 to 4,000 remaining critically endangered Siberian Crane, approximately 95% currently winter in wetlands that will be destroyed by the Three Gorges Dam.

While logging in the area was required for construction which adds to erosion, stopping the periodic uncontrolled river flooding will lessen erosion in the long run. The build up of silt in the reservoir will, however, reduce the amount of silt transported by the Yangtze River to the Yangtze Delta.

Cities such as Shanghai need ever increasing electricity to power its new modern skyline. With 26 HEP Turbines generating 18000 megawatts of electricity, This Dam will be a huge benefit to this power shortage.

The long term benefits are not so promising, as eventually the dam will fill up with sediment producing less electricity.

^^ the dam is on the river in which the fresh water white fin dolphins live. these dolphins
have been on the endangered list for china for 27 years and china has done
everything it can to save these animals. there were supposedly about 13 of them left
before the dam's construction began. for the dam, they've built carefully engineered
special tunnels to allow them pass freely. if the dolphins become distinct, it would be
very sad but it wouldn't be the fault of the dam which is going to provide 10% of the
electricity for china.

^^ you don't have the moral high grounds to criticize other people who you are guilty of the same crime yourself.

Are you serious? By your "logic," essentially no one in the entire world--save for a few saintly people--could criticize anyone else for anything, because basically all of us have f*cked up at one time or another. What kind of a ridiculous world would that be? I have a very hard time believing you abide by such an untenable principle.

The proposal for three gorge dam was raised approximately 100 years ago, and the feasibility research was initiated 1930s although stoped because of Anti-Jap war, but was reconducted from 1950s to 1990s, until the plan was passed by National congress. Essentially all of the questions, such as endangered species, sendimentation, emigration and even nuclear strike were seriously addressed. I don't believe that there is any other hydroppower project has even been subject to this intensive and lengthy research as three gorge dam.

Are you serious? By your "logic," essentially no one in the entire world--save for a few saintly people--could criticize anyone else for anything, because basically all of us have f*cked up at one time or another. What kind of a ridiculous world would that be? I have a very hard time believing you abide by such an untenable principle.

You know, as US shock therapyed Russia, it bankrupted Russia. And by your fantastic China-bashing logic, I can turn down your whole country. So, stay away from China, dude.

I think that China did the right thing for its people in building this magnificent dam, and I think that it is doing the right thing in building nuclear power plants. The situation is simple: (1) Energy is needed; (2) dams and nuclear power plants are the most efficient, the cleanest and the overall best way to provide the needed energy. Also, there is no danager of invaders successfully destroying the dam, simply because missiles can be placed nearby to prevent this. In essence, the Chinese government, in regard to providing energy for its people, is doing an absolutely outstanding job. The same could not be said of many other governments.

I think that China did the right thing for its people in building this magnificent dam, and I think that it is doing the right thing in building nuclear power plants. The situation is simple: (1) Energy is needed; (2) dams and nuclear power plants are the most efficient, the cleanest and the overall best way to provide the needed energy. Also, there is no danager of invaders successfully destroying the dam, simply because missiles can be placed nearby to prevent this. In essence, the Chinese government, in regard to providing energy for its people, is doing an absolutely outstanding job. The same could not be said of many other governments.
Thank you for realzing the postive side of this project. How is the construction going?

who cares about dolphins? the people are more important, some people never cease to amaze me.

Most of the benefits will be reaped by relatively affluent city-dwellers rather than the poor.

city dwellers dont die when the river floods, villages do.

Fascinating project. It's just unfortunate that so many ancient villages and temples that are part of China's history had to be abandoned and destroyed to make way for the rising waters created by the dam.

it's sad some historical monuments have to be flooded/moved, but we are also building history, this dam will amaze more people than whatever is destroyed to build this dam.

who cares about dolphins? the people are more important, some people never cease to amaze me.
White dolphins are important because they're considered endangered species. China has the most people in the world i guess losing a few won't matter to them. that's just me though

I'm actuallly torn both ways by this project. I've read a lot about it. It has advantages as well as disadvantages. Please don't assume my criticism of the Three Gorges Dam translates into dislike for China in general. I happen to be extremely fascinated by China and its history and hope to visit sometime in the future.

I'm actuallly torn both ways by this project. I've read a lot about it. It has advantages as well as disadvantages. Please don't assume my criticism of the Three Gorges Dam translates into dislike for China in general. I happen to be extremely fascinated by China and its history and hope to visit sometime in the future.
more advantages than disad..

I think a lot are missing the point...

What is better? A bunch of coal plants or oil plants or a dam?

There is going to be an environmental inpact with anything... and I think a dam is better than coal or oil... Especially today.

We can learn from the Aswan High Dam in Egypt. It did a lot of good things for Egypt.
Yes, there was some environmental impact... but imagine if they built a bunch of coal plants there instead?

who cares about dolphins? the people are more important, some people never cease to amaze me.

Dolphins are important too. We all have to share this blue ball called Earth, and we're all interdependent.

who cares about dolphins? the people are more important, some people never cease to amaze me.

yes but modernization should not come with the price of destroying nature.

Will The Three Gorges Dam be visible from the moon?

Will The Three Gorges Dam be visible from the moon?

LOL no. You can't see anything from the moon except the outlines of continents and stuff.

I think that China did the right thing for its people in building this magnificent dam, and I think that it is doing the right thing in building nuclear power plants. The situation is simple: (1) Energy is needed; (2) dams and nuclear power plants are the most efficient, the cleanest and the overall best way to provide the needed energy. Also, there is no danager of invaders successfully destroying the dam, simply because missiles can be placed nearby to prevent this. In essence, the Chinese government, in regard to providing energy for its people, is doing an absolutely outstanding job. The same could not be said of many other governments.


I agree, this dam is the right thing for China. China has alot of smart people and I bet they got all the forseeable problems taken care of like the sediment buildup and other stuff.

By the way, how are they going to solve the problem of sediment buildup? That would be interesting to know.

The Three Gorges Dam will be the China's second Great Wall. I can't wait to see the great water resovoir. Just imagine when you dive into this great lake, you see lost cities that are buried in water because of this dam. Fengdu is one example, if you know any other, please list.

^^^ Heh, you'd have to get pretty close to them. The water isn't clear, and it will be pretty deep. It would be cool to see them... but the water is too dirty :(

what will they do with the cemeteries, they can't just let them all flooded

I agree, this dam is the right thing for China. China has alot of smart people and I bet they got all the forseeable problems taken care of like the sediment buildup and other stuff.

By the way, how are they going to solve the problem of sediment buildup? That would be interesting to know.

Based on the mathematical model, the sedimentation will reach equilibrium after 80-100 years and render 80% of original reservoir volumn.

Hydroelectricity is a relatively clean source of power compared to nuclear and fossil fuels. It has some disadvantages: Population has to be resettled. Heritage buildings are sites are submerged. Species that rely on river environment are challenged in the proximity of the dam, yet the creation of artificial lake changes substrate of water and new species arise.

But it is STILL one of the best options out there.

what will they do with the cemeteries, they can't just let them all flooded
All of the historically important sites will be relocated except one, where an underwater meseum will be built.

All of the historically important sites will be relocated except one, where an underwater meseum will be built.

That will be awesome if its actually done. Any sources on this?

an underwater museum? like an aquarium or something

http://www.china.org.cn/english/culture/43311.htm

China to Build Underwater Museum at Three Gorges

Construction of an underwater museum housing the world's oldest hydrologic inscriptions detailing the Yangtze River's water levels in the reservoir of the Three Gorges Project will start early next year.

The underwater museum is the brainchild of Chinese scientist Ge Xiurun, a member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering.


The inscriptions dating back 1,200 years, appear on a 1,600 meter by 16 meter horizontal stone girder commonly known as Baiheliang which records the history of the river's levels.


An original protection plan expected that when the massive water control project was being built on the river's middle reaches; the inscribed girder would be buried naturally by silting at the bottom of the reservoir formed behind the dam.


However, Ge suggested it should be possible to build an underwater museum at the middle of the girder where the inscriptions are concentrated. Underwater lighting will be installed so visitors can view the inscriptions via glass windows. 　　


Ge explained the top of the underwater museum would be submerged when the water level was high and would stand above the water surface when the level was low.


According to the academician, details of the design to protect the pillar are fixed and have been approved by the authorities.


Ge is confident the major part of the underwater museum will be finished during two dry seasons.


The Three Gorges Project, situated near Yichang in central China's Hubei Province, comprises 26 generating units, each with a 700,000-kilowatt capacity.


The first group of four units will be installed and begin generating power in 2003. The entire project will be finished by 2009. On completion, it will be the world's largest hydropower project with a total capacity of 18.2 million kilowatts and an annual output of 84.68 billion kilowatt-hours of electricity.


(Xinhua News Agency September 17, 2002)


Museum rendering
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/xinsrc_402040327131560920271.jpg

construction is still underway
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/xinsrc_412040327131578196994.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/xinsrc_432040327131501533047.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/xinsrc_432040327131575062329.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/xinsrc_4120403271315078326672.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/xinsrc_4120403271315421215423.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/xinsrc_4220403271315281317435.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/xinsrc_4220403271315640111116.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/xinsrc_4320403271315375190478.jpg

Sounds like this water museum will be the first one of its kind in history.

The overriding principle of this world is NATIONAL INTEREST, not democracy or human rights. Hence a good country always STAYS AWAY FROM other countries, while a bad one always CARES ABOUT others.

How can you say what the "NATIONAL INTERESTS" are when you don't allow people to freely express their own? Rather, in a country where power is in the hands of the few, whether that be China, the United States, or Algeria for all I care, those with the power use it to impose their PERSONAL INTERESTS on everyone else irrespective of whether that coincides with anything good happening for the country or not.

The most recent update is unfotunetly in Chinese.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/photo/2006-04/26/content_4478684.htm
目前，2002年2月开工建设的重庆白鹤梁水下博物馆工程进展顺利，参观廊道和水下拱形保护体主体工程已经全部建设完毕。整个工程包括地面陈列馆、交通及参观廊道、水下保护体三部分，预计将于2007年上半年竣工。建成后的白鹤梁水下博物馆，将在长江水下40多米的保护体中向游人开放，届时游人可通过一条水下通道透过玻璃罩式的承压窗口观看石刻。 位于三峡库区的白鹤梁水文石刻是一条长达1.6公里的古老石刻带，它记录了1200多年来72个枯水年份的长江水位资料，堪称保存完好的“世界第一古代水文站”，并因历代文人墨客留下的3万多字美妙诗文真迹题刻被誉为“水下碑林”。 新华社记者摄

A brief translation is that the Bai'he'liang Underwater Museum will be completed in first half of 2007. The museum is 40 meters underneath water, in which there will be a 1.6 km ancient sculpture belt documenting thousands years of poems and hydrological records.

How can you say what the "NATIONAL INTERESTS" are when you don't allow people to freely express their own? Rather, in a country where power is in the hands of the few, whether that be China, the United States, or Algeria for all I care, those with the power use it to impose their PERSONAL INTERESTS on everyone else irrespective of whether that coincides with anything good happening for the country or not.

1. I hope someone like you would really stay away from China politics coz I am really sick of this kind of argument, okay?

2. with regard to your question, read this http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=345718

3. China's gov't has support from majority of Chinese people, some control is needed in order for social stability and economic growth.

4. US has already bankrupted Russia, so stay from China, clear?

thnx for the info.

If you want to stay out of Chinese politics, don't keep nationalistic political statements for your signature on this site.

^^ what i wrote is truth, i know the reason why us is interested in china is simply because China develops too fast.

3. China's gov't has support from majority of Chinese people, some control is needed in order for social stability and economic growth.

If the Chinese government really had the support of the majority of Chinese people, they wouldn't be so afraid of democracy and human rights.

4. US has already bankrupted Russia, so stay from China, clear?

Quit equating everyone opposed to what's happening in China to the United States. I am not a country. I am an individual. George Bush doesn't speak for me.

What's wrong with China's rapid development, I really want the people to have high standards of living like in the West. How long will it take for China to be developed. The US only afraid communism spreading, and maybe more oversea's companies will come to China and U.S' people will lost their jobs.

what i wrote is truth, i know the reason why us is interested in china is simply because China develops too fast.

That simply isn't true. I couldn't give a rat's ass about which country is developing fastest or who is building the most skyscrapers. I care first and foremost about people and how they are treated. The country they come from matters little.

If the Chinese government really had the support of the majority of Chinese people, they wouldn't be so afraid of democracy and human rights.
HK, TW, Singapore and S Korea were not democracy until quasi-developed level, while US-modeled philipine was the second richest country in Asia 50 years ago but now is even behind China.
China has her own agenda to achieve democracy.
While in India 47% of under five children are underweight, you really think the right to vote is more important than enough food and good education for every child?



Quit equating everyone opposed to what's happening in China to the United States. I am not a country. I am an individual. George Bush doesn't speak for me.
What do you want to say? I don't understand.

What's wrong with China's rapid development, I really want the people to have high standards of living like in the West. How long will it take for China to be developed. The US only afraid communism spreading, and maybe more oversea's companies will come to China and U.S' people will lost their jobs.
Is China spreading commuism? think again.

That simply isn't true. I couldn't give a rat's ass about which country is developing fastest or who is building the most skyscrapers. I care first and foremost about people and how they are treated. The country they come from matters little.
The people who live in Communist countries are treated fine but they have limited rights such as critizing the government isn't allow. Why is it a misconception of the Westerners that Communist is bad and everything. I dont' get it.

Is China spreading commuism? think again.
many documents have it. When China becomes a superpower more countries with corrupted government will look up to China as a role model. Is this not possible or what?

That simply isn't true. I couldn't give a rat's ass about which country is developing fastest or who is building the most skyscrapers. I care first and foremost about people and how they are treated. The country they come from matters little.
Yeah, in India 47% under five children is underweight, clear?

Is China spreading commuism? think again.

Of course.

many documents have it. When China becomes a superpower more countries with corrupted government will look up to China as a role model. Is this not possible or what?

Every country has the right to choose the way to develop, they have the right to learn from China. But China is not spreading anything.

Children in America aren't as respectful as those in China, that's what I dislike about democracy

Every country has the right to choose the way to develop, they have the right to learn from China. But China is not spreading anything.
What about all the chinatowns in almost every cities in the world, lol.

What's wrong with China's rapid development, I really want the people to have high standards of living like in the West. How long will it take for China to be developed. The US only afraid communism spreading, and maybe more oversea's companies will come to China and U.S' people will lost their jobs.

1. China is not communist. It is authoritarian capitalism with more than a touch of expansionist nationalism.
2. Development itself is not a problem, in my opinion. It is the particular way that development happens in China, and in most of the rest of the world for that matter, that I have a problem with. The vast, vast majority of people slaving away building that dam, or working 14 hour days sewing clothes for 500 yuan a month, are never going to see real benefits of their labor.
3. The Three Gorges damn in particular is an example of shoddy development. In addition to the environmental problems this will cause, it has been shown that a series of smaller dams would have been cheaper, more environmentally friendly, and generated more power.

What about all the chinatowns in almost every cities in the world, lol.
are we talking about emmigration or politics?

Every country has the right to choose the way to develop, they have the right to learn from China. But China is not spreading anything.

Ask the people of the Niger Delta if they believe that, or people from Vietnam who fought back the Chinese invasion just a few years after they fought the U.S.

1. China is not communist. It is authoritarian capitalism with more than a touch of expansionist nationalism.
2. Development itself is not a problem, in my opinion. It is the particular way that development happens in China, and in most of the rest of the world for that matter, that I have a problem with. The vast, vast majority of people slaving away building that dam, or working 14 hour days sewing clothes for 500 yuan a month, are never going to see real benefits of their labor.
3. The Three Gorges damn in particular is an example of shoddy development. In addition to the environmental problems this will cause, it has been shown that a series of smaller dams would have been cheaper, more environmentally friendly, and generated more power.
series of smaller dams? how is this possible with the width of the Yangze

Ask the people of the Niger Delta if they believe that, or people from Vietnam who fought back the Chinese invasion just a few years after they fought the U.S.
What Chinese invasion did Vietnam fight do you have any facts to this.

The people who live in Communist countries are treated fine but they have limited rights such as critizing the government isn't allow. Why is it a misconception of the Westerners that Communist is bad and everything. I dont' get it.

No, people working for 500 yuan a month working 14 hours in unsafe factories are not being treated "fine". They are being used as fodder to line a few people's pockets and to create cheap junk for others to consume.

Ask the people of the Niger Delta if they believe that,

There are also people in Nigeria believe that.Eventually it is Nigerian's choice, and they can turn it down if majority say no.

or people from Vietnam who fought back the Chinese invasion just a few years after they fought the U.S.
It is a response to VN's invasion to cambodia.

What Chinese invasion did Vietnam fight do you have any facts to this.

Beginning in 1979, I believe, and continuing throughout the 1980's and perhaps even a bit into the 90's, China engaged in a secret border war with Vietnam, in part because Vietnam had allied itself more with Russia and not so much with China, who the Vietnamese have been resisting for over a thousand years. It is not formally acknowledged by either government, but thousands, if not 10's of thousands, were killed. It is generally presumed that Vietnam "won" the war.

No, people working for 500 yuan a month working 14 hours in unsafe factories are not being treated "fine". They are being used as fodder to line a few people's pockets and to create cheap junk for others to consume.
At least China does not use black slaves.

No, people working for 500 yuan a month working 14 hours in unsafe factories are not being treated "fine". They are being used as fodder to line a few people's pockets and to create cheap junk for others to consume.
Are you gonna stand up and help those people or just against it your whole life

I don't think you know enough about me to make any presumptions of what I do with my life.

Beginning in 1979, I believe, and continuing throughout the 1980's and perhaps even a bit into the 90's, China engaged in a secret border war with Vietnam, in part because Vietnam had allied itself more with Russia and not so much with China, who the Vietnamese have been resisting for over a thousand years. It is not formally acknowledged by either government, but thousands, if not 10's of thousands, were killed. It is generally presumed that Vietnam "won" the war.

LMAO, Western media

At least China does not use black slaves.

How do you know I'm not black? And what makes you think I don't criticize the U.S. as well?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnam_War

LMAO, Western media

As opposed to those paragons of objectivity, the Eastern media? :)

How do you know I'm not black? And what makes you think I don't criticize the U.S. as well?
does it matter?
Bad thing happens in every country, but at least China is not like India, where 47% children are malnutrional. How many times do I have to say this?

How do you know I'm not black? And what makes you think I don't criticize the U.S. as well?
you're just saying stuff from your perspective without any experience living in China, Vietnam or any other communist country. People aren't rich in Vietnam but they're mostly happy with what they have (not every single 1). If you think money can buy you everything then this is not where you go to express your opinion. OK, all agree?

I most certainly do have experience in China.

does it matter?
Bad thing happens in every country, but at least China is not like India, where 47% children are malnutrional. How many times do I have to say this?

Why is the only choice between being China or India? Or the United States? Or Europe?

you're just saying stuff from your perspective without any experience living in China, Vietnam or any other communist country.

No, you are just trying to pigeonhole me into a neat little racist stereotype of where you think I come from and what you think I do, say, and believe.

No, you are just trying to pigeonhole me into a neat little racist stereotype of where you think I come from and what you think I do, say, and believe.
Ok, where do you come from?

Why is the only choice between being China or India? Or the United States? Or Europe?
Because China and India are both poor countries. And please name a particular country, which was poor 50 years, but gets rich by sticking to "western democracy". (HK, TW, S Korea and Singapore are just opposite.
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS? )

As for US and Europe, how did they get rich in the first place and when democracy was finally achieved (I mean without any racial discramination). Don't forget slavary and colonism...........

No, people working for 500 yuan a month working 14 hours in unsafe factories are not being treated "fine". They are being used as fodder to line a few people's pockets and to create cheap junk for others to consume.

Everyone who buys clothing from China supports that... understand? If there is demand... there is supply. Simple economics.
Not saying its right... just saying how it is.

What does it matter? Humanity is worldwide. I don't confine myself to borders, and I don't think you should confine your thinking to such a narrow caricature of people's opinions being soley represented by their governments.

Everyone who buys clothing from China supports that... understand? If there is demand... there is supply. Simple economics.
Not saying its right... just saying how it is.

I'm sorry, but economics isn't quite that simple. There isn't a real way to escape it, short of living in the mountains in Canada, and that isn't a viable way to create any sort of change if you are really, truly concerned with the way people both in other parts of the world or your own are treated. Isolating yourself from the world doesn't change anything.

What does it matter? Humanity is worldwide. I don't confine myself to borders, and I don't think you should confine your thinking to such a narrow caricature of people's opinions being soley represented by their governments.
They don't but that's the way it is for hundred of years. Are you going to be the one to change their fate, Mr. hero or is it Clashman

I was explaining the simple theory of supply and demand. And there is demand, especially in the US... look at the huge defecit the US has with China. So of course there will be supply.

Want to do osmething about it? Educate, boycott, etc. Here is a start: http://www.adbusters.org/home/

BTW, I am not isolating myself from anything... I am just saying how it is...

A wise man once said "I may never be able to knock down this wall, but I'm going to take out a brick if I have to pry it out with my fingers".

A wise man once said "I may never be able to knock down this wall, but I'm going to take out a brick if I have to pry it out with my fingers".
Hey whats the name of the wise man? Is it George Bush? :weirdo:

Not only do you have to change the supply side of it... but also the demand. The consumers have to change their tastes and their ways.

He's no-one famous, unless he ripped it off from someone else. The fact that he wasn't famous, however, doesn't mean he wasn't wise.

Not only do you have to change the supply side of it... but also the demand. The consumers have to change their tastes and their ways.

Trust me when I say that I'm aware of that. Once again, I think you presume that you know more about me than you do. I most certainly believe that there needs to be big changes on both sides of the Pacific. My problem is when anyone who dares to criticize China is automatically derided by a plethora of Chinese nationalists as a pawn of George Bush, and then people on this forum take their words as those of all Chinese, when in reality their voice is only so prevalent because those in their country who disagree with them aren't allowed to speak up for themselves.

Trust me when I say that I'm aware of that. Once again, I think you presume that you know more about me than you do. I most certainly believe that there needs to be big changes on both sides of the Pacific. My problem is when anyone who dares to criticize China is automatically derided by a plethora of Chinese nationalists as a pawn of George Bush, and then people on this forum take their words as those of all Chinese, when in reality their voice is only so prevalent because those in their country who disagree with them aren't allowed to speak up for themselves.

This website is free to access from anywhere. And most of forumers are oversea chinese because of english skill.

There sure aren't a lot of dispossessed Chinese peasants cruising these forums though, that's for sure. The vast majority of those who reach the level of English proficiency needed to participate on this forum didn't spend their childhoods tilling fields or their adulthoods sewing garments and working construction in the PRC.

There sure aren't a lot of dispossessed Chinese peasants cruising these forums though, that's for sure.
This world is not your imagination.

"So long as people have no basis of comparison, they'll never know they're oppressed."

Trust me when I say that I'm aware of that. Once again, I think you presume that you know more about me than you do. I most certainly believe that there needs to be big changes on both sides of the Pacific. My problem is when anyone who dares to criticize China is automatically derided by a plethora of Chinese nationalists as a pawn of George Bush, and then people on this forum take their words as those of all Chinese, when in reality their voice is only so prevalent because those in their country who disagree with them aren't allowed to speak up for themselves.

Funny thing is... is that I think you think you know more than anyone else. Especially from your previous posts... and some hypocracy involved.

Many people, in many countries, including the US, aren't allowed to speak for themselves.

Funny thing is... is that I think you think you know more than anyone else. Especially from your previous posts... and some hypocracy involved.

Many people, in many countries, including the US, aren't allowed to speak for themselves.

Once again, where did I say the U.S. was a model to look up to?

"So long as people have no basis of comparison, they'll never know they're oppressed."
If you are really care about others, please do something about 47% of India kids who are mulnutrutioned. Otherwise you are just another hypocritic person who are jealose of China's achievement.

^^^ It's just a country that many can relate to... is all. That and the US always gloats about their "freedom of speech" and etc.

^^^ It's just a country that many can relate to... is all. That and the US always gloats about their "freedom of speech" and etc.
No, that is indeed clashman relate to.

If you are really care about others, please do something about 47% of India kids who are mulnutrutioned. Otherwise you are just another hypocritic person who are jealose of China's achievement.

Or Darfur... that seems to be a popular current event... but most gov'ts aren't doing anythign about it. Just like Rwanda and etc.
But India is good too. Or any country where there are poor (which is every country.)

No, that is indeed clashman relate to.

Yea, the "^^^" were meant for clashman... you just posted a little earlier than me. :)

If you are really care about others, please do something about 47% of India kids who are mulnutrutioned. Otherwise you are just another hypocritic person who are jealose of China's achievement.

If you really care about China you would be willing to engage in a serious discussion of it's shortcomings rather than attack everyone who brings them up and trying to divert attention to the shortcomings of India and the U.S.

^^^ It's just a country that many can relate to... is all. That and the US always gloats about their "freedom of speech" and etc.

Once again, George Bush doesn't speak for me. When W and Rumsfield try to divert attention from torture and Abu Ghraib by saying how terrible "them terrorists" are, it is the same thing as what wigo is doing with respect to China's problems. Both are wrong, and shouldn't be accepted blindly. Or at all, for that matter.

If you really care about China you would be willing to engage in a serious discussion of it's shortcomings rather than attack everyone who brings them up and trying to divert attention to the shortcomings of India and the U.S.
For China, the most important issue is economic development. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS????

^^^ How do you know he doesn't? Maybe he gives to charity? Or the poor in his community?

Yeah, I do care about China and its miracle of moving thousands and more people out of poverty to the middle class like removing dirt from a plate

Once again, George Bush doesn't speak for me. When W and Rumsfield try to divert attention from torture and Abu Ghraib by saying how terrible them terrorists are.
So what is the point of being democracy?

For China, the most important issue is economic development. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS????

Why should you get to decide what is best for China?

Why should you get to decide what is best for China?
Then why should you decide?

Once again, George Bush doesn't speak for me. When W and Rumsfield try to divert attention from torture and Abu Ghraib by saying how terrible "them terrorists" are, it is the same thing as what wigo is doing with respect to China's problems. Both are wrong, and shouldn't be accepted blindly. Or at all, for that matter.

I am not accepting anything blindly... I have my own opinions and I make up my own mind.

So Clashman... what have you done to help the chinese people? Or any other people? Or those in your community?

I never said I should.

I am not accepting anything blindly... I have my own opinions and I make up my own mind.

So Clashman... what have you done to help the chinese people? Or any other people? Or those in your community?
I don't trust this guy, he is apparently one of many people who are sleepless by China's miracle and pray for China's collpase every day.

Why should you get to decide what is best for China?
because I would work really hard to bring economic wealth to China. We get to decide if we do what we promise, unlike some hipocratic one

I never said I should.
Then go away, clear?

I am not accepting anything blindly... I have my own opinions and I make up my own mind.

So Clashman... what have you done to help the chinese people? Or any other people? Or those in your community?

I've raised money for people to illegally defy the sanctions on Iraq by delivering medical supplies to hospitals before the war. I've worked to get Western pharmecutical companies to drop their lawsuits against the government of South Africa for a provision in their constitution that allowed them to generically produce AIDS drugs their population couldn't afford to buy on their own.

Then go away, clear?

It's a free internet, at least for now. You are just as free to leave as I am.

It's a free internet, at least for now. You are just as free to leave as I am.
You should not decide for China as you said. So what is your point?
I am here also but I am not interested in US politics.

So what is the point of being democracy?

While I understand the point you're trying to make, that isn't quite true. In democracy there is such a thing called "loyal opposition". Which means the minority side (whichever loses) has to constructively critisize and suggest how things should be.

It's a free internet, at least for now. You are just as free to leave as I am.

Hey Clashman only post if you have any updates on the Three Gorges Dam. ok. Anything else should be debate on Skybar, the topic doesn't say " China in your opinion".

You should not decide for China as you said. So what is your point?
I am here also but I am not interested in US politics.

My point is that "National Interests" aren't for any one person to decide on their own. I thought I made that clear earlier.

My point is that "National Interests" aren't for any one person to decide on their own. I thought I made that clear earlier.
Do you really think that China's gov't can function if most of people oppose it?

Hey Clashman only post if you have any updates on the Three Gorges Dam. ok. Anything else should be debate on Skybar, the topic doesn't say " China in your opinion".

If you are all willing to do the same, and if discussion of 3 Gorges can also include criticism and disagreement with the ways and methods in which it is being constructed without people resorting to deriding all of those criticisms as U.S. propaganda, then sure.

Do you really think that China's gov't can function if most of people oppose it?

Yeah. Most governments in this world "function" without the consent of most of their people. China is no exception in this regard.

My point is that "National Interests" aren't for any one person to decide on their own. I thought I made that clear earlier.

i don't think you have any point, all your arguments are fantasies of a perfect
world in which eveyone loves everyone else and smokes dope everyday and
have orgies. you are a troll, no doubt about it.

Yeah. Most governments in this world "function" without the consent of most people. China is no exception in this regard.

By your definition, Singapore is another example, which was under Lee's reign for 30 years. But I do know Singaporean are happy with their gov't. So why do you even care?

How do you know that? If the vast majority of people are happy with the government, why can't you let people have free access to information or protest it's actions, or even to get rid of that government if they decide they aren't happy with it anymore?

If you are all willing to do the same, and if discussion of 3 Gorges can also include criticism and disagreement with the ways and methods in which it is being constructed without people resorting to deriding all of those criticisms as U.S. propaganda, then sure.

You can critisize the Three Gorges Dam all you want but it is an engineering wonder. Maybe threatening to the enviroment but considering your so-called-regard for Chinese people, they deserve to live without the constant floods of the Yangze. The Aswan High Dam made the land around the Nile much more fertile, who knows what 3 Gorges Dam can do.

It's been fun everyone, but I think I have to go for now. I hope that if you've taken anything from this conversation, you've learned to look at what I have been saying and respond to the arguments I'm making rather than simply bash my percieved nationality. I also hope that you come to realize that you can be critical of something without being jealous of it or wanting to see a country as a whole fail, but that might be too much to ask at this point. Good day to you all.

"The government needs criticism from its people... We must learn from old mistakes, take all forms of healthy criticism, and do what we can to answer these criticisms."

百华齐放,百家争鸣。

It's been fun everyone, but I think I have to go for now. I hope that if you've taken anything from this conversation, you've learned to look at what I have been saying and respond to the arguments I'm making rather than simply bash my percieved nationality. I also hope that you come to realize that you can be critical of something without being jealous of it or wanting to see a country as a whole fail, but that might be too much to ask at this point. Good day to you all.
Yes, I've learned that you need to get some help. Therapist are very easy to get I just don't know if you can afford them.

Beginning in 1979, I believe, and continuing throughout the 1980's and perhaps even a bit into the 90's, China engaged in a secret border war with Vietnam, in part because Vietnam had allied itself more with Russia and not so much with China, who the Vietnamese have been resisting for over a thousand years. It is not formally acknowledged by either government, but thousands, if not 10's of thousands, were killed. It is generally presumed that Vietnam "won" the war.


Now I wanna know how the fuck this has anything to do with the premise under the gorge dam construction.

Now I wanna know how the fuck this has anything to do with the premise under the gorge dam construction.


it doesn't, clashman is fucked up in the head from the dope he's been snorting ...

Yeah. Most governments in this world "function" without the consent of most of their people. China is no exception in this regard.

It should be rewritten as "most government in this world function without the consent of most of the Americans or those pro-democracy people. Iran, Iraq and North Korea are no exeption in this regard.

Even though there will be an underwater museum, it still wouldve been better to visit the kool artifacts and visit the villages at the same time.
; (

wow, i am so happy, this thread become hot now. but when i saw what you said i found most words not about this dam at all.
it's just a dam, the only different is the biggest in earth, if people think build dam for get electric power and better ship way but kill fish and destroy the natureal is wrong, every dam in human history is wrong, isn't it? why some people not talk something about dam in Europe US Cananda or Egypt(in my memory Aswan Dam is here), just say something about the No.1? you can ask your goverment to destory your dam, at least,i support this dam, as smart Sen said: we are creating our history. if one day my children want go to other planets to start new live and give up earth, i will admire their capacity never talk something about political, war, economy, democracy or other things, there are useless. i think only science, technology, music and art can be called as human fortune.

economic development isn't human development. China builds a lot of skyscrapers and dams, it's the first manufacturer of watches, mobile phone, PC, LCD Televisions etc.... but the workers of these factories and the most of chinese people don't earn enough money to buy all that.....

economic development isn't human development. China builds a lot of skyscrapers and dams, it's the first manufacturer of watches, mobile phone, PC, LCD Televisions etc.... but the workers of these factories and the most of chinese people don't earn enough money to buy all that.....

I think people from rich countries constantly want to screw poor countries so that they can remain at top for ever. Please take a look at the reality of this world, and compare what China has achieved with other poor countries.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=345718
And think, what is human development???

economic development isn't human development. China builds a lot of skyscrapers and dams, it's the first manufacturer of watches, mobile phone, PC, LCD Televisions etc.... but the workers of these factories and the most of chinese people don't earn enough money to buy all that.....
wrong. PC is very common in china, even monk use that which may betray Buddhism's doxy, mobile phone also very cheap(who not have means he is very poor or cool), in fact most people live in countryside use mobile phone but not have phone for cost reason, as there has time on it so most people not use watch at all. LCD Television is very common in cities because it's use much less place, this place more expensive than LCD Television itself. in counteyside few people use it. i think develop technology and output will cut cost, so everyone can have them.
in china most of students have PC, mobilephone but not have TV because few people is interestde in TV program except sports program, we can use software such as TVview see the living in the net or add a TV card into computer to receving TV signal. house, medical treatment and education are very dear, not everyone can offer them, last year a rich man use 1 million dollars in half year to treat his father's disease, but that man dead and people find most money are skimped by doctors. so we need more skyscrapers and more hospital and more schools and more energy sources, enough competation must helpful for cut our spending.

wow, i am so happy, this thread become hot now. but when i saw what you said i found most words not about this dam at all.
it's just a dam, the only different is the biggest in earth, if people think build dam for get electric power and better ship way but kill fish and destroy the natureal is wrong, every dam in human history is wrong, isn't it? why some people not talk something about dam in Europe US Cananda or Egypt(in my memory Aswan Dam is here), just say something about the No.1? you can ask your goverment to destory your dam, at least,i support this dam, as smart Sen said: we are creating our history.

See, the problem is that you assume we don't criticize dam construction in our own countries. People DO in fact rally against dam construction, the displacement, and environmental damage that they often cause. Just to give you a few examples:

http://www.globalexchange.org/countries/americas/mexico/2688.html
http://www.irn.org/pubs/wrr/9806/maheshwar.html
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/news/2002/0803/story1.html
http://www.choike.org/nuevo_eng/informes/3401.html
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501021223-400073,00.html
http://www.mizzima.com/archives/news-in-2005/news-in-april/27-April05-36.htm
http://members.aol.com/tagaeri/belize.html
http://www.threegorgesprobe.org/pi/documents/three_gorges/Damming3G/ch02.html

It isn't just "The big bad west picking on poor little defenseless China".

It isn't just "The big bad west picking on poor little defenseless China".
?????

rgfgfgfg

wrong. PC is very common in china, even monk use that which may betray Buddhism's doxy, mobile phone also very cheap(who not have means he is very poor or cool), in fact most people live in countryside use mobile phone but not have phone for cost reason, as there has time on it so most people not use watch at all. LCD Television is very common in cities because it's use much less place, this place more expensive than LCD Television itself. in counteyside few people use it. i think develop technology and output will cut cost, so everyone can have them.
in china most of students have PC, mobilephone but not have TV because few people is interestde in TV program except sports program, we can use software such as TVview see the living in the net or add a TV card into computer to receving TV signal. house, medical treatment and education are very dear, not everyone can offer them, last year a rich man use 1 million dollars in half year to treat his father's disease, but that man dead and people find most money are skimped by doctors. so we need more skyscrapers and more hospital and more schools and more energy sources, enough competation must helpful for cut our spending.

I'm glad to hear that China is now problem free...maybe I'll move there soon :runaway:

Thanks for the big laugh. :cheers:

See, the problem is that you assume we don't criticize dam construction in our own countries. People DO in fact rally against dam construction, the displacement, and environmental damage that they often cause.
ok, but you should clear understand that i am nobody, i just care about the NO.1 dam's construction and i support this project, imo, you say something bad about this dam i will against you, you say something need change in china you should find somebody such as ministers, premier, president or you can try to make the top chinese power organization people congress to belive in you, i can't do anything for you because i am not agree with you at all.
in fact, Mr Sun zhongshan (father of latter-day china) wanted built this dam in the early 20th century, many scholar thought that dam had strategic means, but in that time china not had the ability and technology; in Mr Mazo zedong age china need think about the world wide war and others things; during these 20 years, discuss this great dam laso very hot, but in 1998, a flood kill over one thousand chinese, so the build voice win at last. in fact this great dam cost just about china one week GDP, the most important problem is should people can change the natureal just for people's better lives, may be stupid people can't creat their future lives by thier technology but who knows, imo, we need try.

The real issue seems to me to be the waste management in China. In France, it only took two years for the Leman Lake to be clean again, after the build up of a new sewage system (Leman is roughly 15km*50km*400m). Now it is so clean there are less weed, so there are fewer fish in the lake!!!!
4 : assouan in Egypt is a construction of the same kind, and no one is making apocalyptic predictings about it.



Actually I analyzed the water of the Lac Leman close to shore. We found out it contains quite a lot of seaweeds. Where did you find your info ?

Giant dam to be completed in 2 weeks
2006-05-08

CONSTRUCTION for the giant dam of the Three Gorges hydropower project on the Yangtze River is expected to finish on May 20, an executive with the China Yangtze River Three Gorges Project Development Corporation said yesterday.

"There are less than 3,000 cubic meters of concrete left to be placed before the dam will finally complete nine months ahead of the schedule," said Cao Guangjing, deputy general manager of the corporation.

Construction of the 2,309-meter-long and 185-meter-high dam began in 1998.

Launched in 1994, the Three Gorges Project, including the dam and 26 generators is planned to be completed in 2009 and by then, it will be able to generate 84.7 billion kwh of electricity annually.

Meanwhile, the main part of the underwater museum for the Baiheliang, the world's oldest water survey device which will be submerged once the Three Gorges reservoir is filled, has been completed.

Baiheliang, the 1.6-kilometer-long massive reef important for observing water level changes, has been covered by an elliptical transparent shield so visitors in the future can still see it.

The whole construction project of the underwater museum is expected to be finished by June, 2007.

Located at the upper reaches of the Yangtze, Baiheliang only emerges from the water during the dry season. Therefore, it was a very important marker for ancestors to observe the changes of the water level.

On the massive reef, there are more than 20 fish sculptures, serving as water-level markers. About 30,000 characters of poems are also left on the stone.

The stone inscriptions on Baiheliang recorded about 1,200 consecutive years of the river's water levels during the dry seasons as well as its low water periods.

Xinhua

now, this dam complete

Congratulations! :cheers: :banana: :cheers1: :dance2: :banana2: :drunk:

http://files.photojerk.com/generalhuo/Road/01D3E239.jpg

Beginning in 1979, I believe, and continuing throughout the 1980's and perhaps even a bit into the 90's, China engaged in a secret border war with Vietnam, in part because Vietnam had allied itself more with Russia and not so much with China, who the Vietnamese have been resisting for over a thousand years. It is not formally acknowledged by either government, but thousands, if not 10's of thousands, were killed. It is generally presumed that Vietnam "won" the war.
Even Ho Chi Ming has said why he was willing to deal with the French occupation before the Vietnam War: "I'd rather eat French shit for five years than eat Chinese shit forever" (almost exact quote)

According to german media the relocated people haven't received any compensation (or it didn't reach them thanks to corrupt authorities), lost their jobs and can't find a new one. Some of them even travelled to Beijing to complain about their situation and demanding compensation. They were slapped, almost beaten up and their complaint was ignored.

Even Ho Chi Ming has said why he was willing to deal with the French occupation before the Vietnam War: "I'd rather eat French shit for five years than eat Chinese shit forever" (almost exact quote)

Ho Chi Ming was a fucking cunt, after the vietnam war, he was in Beijing every other day begging for aid, the Chinese then were just too nice to tell him to fuck off.

According to german media the relocated people haven't received any compensation (or it didn't reach them thanks to corrupt authorities), lost their jobs and can't find a new one. Some of them even travelled to Beijing to complain about their situation and demanding compensation. They were slapped, almost beaten up and their complaint was ignored.

the german media didn't do their homework, the dam construction relocated
millions of people and if none of these people had received any compensation,
they would have already marched to Beijing and toppled the government. i
suspect that the german media used third or fouth hand information that they
didn't bother to verify.

i thought the germans were supposed to be scientific and rigorous ...

According to german media the relocated people haven't received any compensation (or it didn't reach them thanks to corrupt authorities), lost their jobs and can't find a new one. Some of them even travelled to Beijing to complain about their situation and demanding compensation. They were slapped, almost beaten up and their complaint was ignored.


They do get compensations. You have a brain, sometimes you need to use it, you know.

Then german media is a piece of joke. :)

Yep, thats right : German media is a piece of joke, noncritical , unprofessional, not a little bit independent,biased and full of prejudice.

Good to have the communist party of china and their press ( and all the formers here) telleng the truth, the truth and nothing but the whole truht.

I think its time that we install a system like in china in germany again :)

^^ china's system is not for everyone, just like china has never had and will never have anything like the holocaust in which millions of people in germany from a certain racial group were driven out of their homes, had their possession stripped and sent to concentration camps for "scentific research". hopefull, the germans will learn to not judge china by germany's past behaviour ... after all, the chinese are not like the germans at all.