Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but there are too many damned threads to look through with a crappy dial-up connection. I happened upon this about a year ago but forgot about it- original plans for the Catholic cathedral that would have been 190ft taller than the Anglican cathedral (520 feet tall)!!!!!!!!!! Check it out.

http://www.liverpoolmetrocathedral.org.uk/im/tn_luytens.jpg

Sir Edwin Lutyens (1869-1944) was commissioned to design a Cathedral to contrast with the Gothic gem of Sir Giles Gilbert Scott which was rising at the other end of Hope Street, where building had started in 1904. The central feature of his design, he decided, was to be a great dome 168 feet (51 meters) in diameter with an internal height of 300 feet (91 meters). The nave and aisles would consist of a series of barrel vaults running at right angles to each other. The High Altar would be twelve feet (4 meters) above the nave floor and a total of 53 altars would line the nave and transept, apses and sacristies. The height from the lowest step of the Western front to the top of the lantern would be a colossal 520 feet (158 meters). (By comparison, the tower of the Anglican Cathedral rises to 330 feet ( 101 meters)).

Inside the West Porch would be the narthex - 'a great space', wrote Lutyens, 'which it is proposed shall be open by day and by night, without let or hindrance, and kept warm - a spiritual sanctuary for those cold and destitute.' He might have added that it would be a link with the purpose of the site in the past. Building of the Crypt went on apace until 1941 when the war years brought the cessation of building, but the fund happily consolidated. In 36 years it had risen to £934,786 of which a little less than half had been expended. After the war the Crypt was completed and remains part of the present Cathedral, a magnificent fragment of what might have been. But the grandiose romanesque super-structure, whose main entrance arch could have contained the nearby University's tower, was now costed at an impossible £27 million. Once again the dream was threatened.

http://www.liverpoolmetrocathedral.org.uk/history/history.htm

Indeed, it could have been great. Imagine those two magnificent Cathedrals at either end of Hope Street!!

However, the cathedral we ended up with isn't that bad though! Some people dont like the Metropolitan Cathedral, but I do.

Yes, I too love the Met Cathedral- I think it is the finest piece of concrete/postmodern architecture in England. Looks great with the new steps outside.

Bloody WW2, drained the manpower and finances for this Luytens Cathedral, and some great buildings we would still have now otherwise. At least there is plenty of empty sites for some new stuff to fill the gaps.

Yeah, that's what annoys me when people seem to celebrate WW2 so much- it was such a terrible, wasteful event. As well as the human lives lost, capital that had been built up over many centuries was just wiped out. Liverpool suffered very badly- not only stuff that was destroyed (the old Post Office springs to mind), but funds ear marked for new stuff was taken away.

Yes, I too love the Met Cathedral- I think it is the finest piece of concrete/postmodern architecture in England. Looks great with the new steps outside.
Took a few pics last year to promote the new steps. Here's my fave:
http://www.**************************/development/met.jpg

This building seems to be getting better with age.
The top of the crypt this building stands on should be landscaped and utilised more as an open space for people to use.

Yeah, that's what annoys me when people seem to celebrate WW2 so much- it was such a terrible, wasteful event. As well as the human lives lost, capital that had been built up over many centuries was just wiped out. Liverpool suffered very badly- not only stuff that was destroyed (the old Post Office springs to mind), but funds ear marked for new stuff was taken away.

Apart from fighting for democracy, freedom of speech, human rights, equal opportunities blah blah blah, what in your opinion made WW2 a "wasteful event"
Heil Blabb

It is indeed intriguing to imagine what Hope Street and Mount Pleasant would have looked like had Lutyens' cathedral been continued. However, I can't help thinking that such was its scale, it may only have been about half built by now.

Does anyone have any facts or figures about how long that building would have taken to construct? After all, the Anglican cathedral took 75 years or thereabouts.

Also, I've always intended to go down into the Lutyens crypt but have never got round to it. Has anyone on this board taken a look down there?

Also, somewhere in Liverpool there is a huge scale model of Lutyens' cathedral, but I'm not aware that it's on public display. Anyone know where it's kept?

They have bits of it in the Conservation Centre, but it used to float between the Walker and the Met Cathedral. Not sure where it is now- have you tried Mike Storey's attic? :?

I think I might have, I know the old basement cafe was very modern, but I seem to remember seeing a small brick chapel in the basement which I think is part of the original design. On the oustide, one side (not the Hope Street one) of the plaza and outside walls look like the foundations of the original, I think......I am beginning to realise its a LONG time since I had a good look around the outside of the cathedral, so maybe someone with better knowledge will be able to say.

Get yerself the beer festival tickets in November. It's held annually in the Crypt. Interesting place. :)

Don't know if anyone has looked stuff up on the British Pathe newsreel site before, but you can find some very fascinating footage of the Lutyens cathedral being built back in the thirties. Actually, you can find fascinating footage of all kinds of things, so I'll leave it up to you to choose what you search for...

http://www.britishpathe.com/

Don't know if anyone has looked stuff up on the British Pathe newsreel site before, but you can find some very fascinating footage of the Lutyens cathedral being built back in the thirties. Actually, you can find fascinating footage of all kinds of things, so I'll leave it up to you to choose what you search for...

http://www.britishpathe.com/
FFS Damon! This is one excellent site for old Liverpool stuff. Thanks :cheers:

No worries Dave - think I'll post that link in the Liverpool thread too.

No worries Dave - think I'll post that link in the Liverpool thread too.
Go forth and multiply matey :cheers:

Dave, another super-duper pic- you should be a free lance photographer or something.

Also, I didn't mean to suggest that WW2 wasn't necessary from Britain's point of view, or that the defeat of facism wasn't a good thing. It's just a shame the whole thing had to happen- it screwed things up a lot even for us 'vicotors.'

http://www.**************************/development/met.jpg

Many happy memories of visiting that Church. My favourite building in Scouse. It's criminal it's not pimped up to the level of the Graces.

Dave, another super-duper pic- you should be a free lance photographer or something.

Also, I didn't mean to suggest that WW2 wasn't necessary from Britain's point of view, or that the defeat of facism wasn't a good thing. It's just a shame the whole thing had to happen- it screwed things up a lot even for us 'vicotors.'

Sorry Blab, just read what I wrote and it was never meant to sound so serious. I was attempting to be flippant/jokey :runaway:

It certainly looks a lot better now than it did when first opened. The steps leading up from Mount Pleasant originally did a 90 degree turn to avoid the old Mersey Innovations Centre which faced Hope Street. The site will also improve as the Liverpool Science Park headquarters and the Foundation Building are completed.

http://www.**************************/development/met.jpg

Many happy memories of visiting that Church. My favourite building in Scouse. It's criminal it's not pimped up to the level of the Graces.

I've many happy memories of this Cathedral. There's a fantastic sculpture of the Risen Christ by Arthur Dooley in there. Almost got married in Paddy's Wigwam, but it was fully booked. Had to do with St Cecilia's on Green Lane :cheers:

I've many happy memories of this Cathedral. There's a fantastic sculpture of the Risen Christ by Arthur Dooley in there. Almost got married in Paddy's Wigwam, but it was fully booked. Had to do with St Cecilia's on Green Lane :cheers:


That would have been great, just imagine how good that would have been!

Wasn't the Anglican Cathedral supposed to be a lot bigger than it's current design also?

Wasn't the Anglican Cathedral supposed to be a lot bigger than it's current design also?

Christ (pardon the pun) but its already pretty huge!

I don't know that it was particularly the planned size that was revised. I do know that when Giles Gilbert Scott was selected as the architect, he was deemed so young and inexperienced (I think he was 22!) that another guy worked on the designs with him. There is a model in the cathedral that shows the original design - it was quite different as it had 2 central towers.

However, the other guy (whose name escapes me) died after only a few years and Giles Gilbert Scott completely revised the plans. Hence - one enormo-tower.

I don't know that it was particularly the planned size that was revised. I do know that when Giles Gilbert Scott was selected as the architect, he was deemed so young and inexperienced (I think he was 22!) that another guy worked on the designs with him. There is a model in the cathedral that shows the original design - it was quite different as it had 2 central towers.

However, the other guy (whose name escapes me) died after only a few years and Giles Gilbert Scott completely revised the plans. Hence - one enormo-tower.

Dont think he done to bad a job myself!

Agreed! :)

This building seems to be getting better with age.
The top of the crypt this building stands on should be landscaped and utilised more as an open space for people to use.


Good idea.

Another ceremonial approuch like the one in front would do well.
Perhaps some modernish statues lining the route?

I visited the Catholic Cathedral last monday and i thought it was a stunning building, the steps at the front were definately needed. The most amazing part of it is the interior though, the stained glass is simply stunning as is the height. I agree that the crypt bit at the back lets it down though.

I don't know that it was particularly the planned size that was revised. I do know that when Giles Gilbert Scott was selected as the architect, he was deemed so young and inexperienced (I think he was 22!) that another guy worked on the designs with him. There is a model in the cathedral that shows the original design - it was quite different as it had 2 central towers.

However, the other guy (whose name escapes me) died after only a few years and Giles Gilbert Scott completely revised the plans. Hence - one enormo-tower.

The older architect was called Bodley and he is mainly credited with the Lady Chapel, which is much more in the Victorian Gothic Revival style than the remainder of the building. One of the problems that the builders of the cathedral had was that some of the chief patrons were Anglo-Catholic and expected a far more flamboyant style than would be expected in an Anglican cathedral.

The ground plan of the cathedral includes the thick walls necessary to support the twin towers that were never built.

The crypt of the Metropolitan Cathedral I believe was only half completed and you can see where the masonry is stepped back to allow for future construction. During the war, only one man was working on it - an apprentice. I expect that if the building had been continued that the crypt would have been extended to cover the full plan area of the modern building.

If they had decided to continue with the cathedral, rather than start another one, I am sure it would be an incredibly controversial building but certainly a massive tourist attraction - much as Barcelona's Sagrada Familia which is not due for completion until the end of this century.

I don't know that it was particularly the planned size that was revised. I do know that when Giles Gilbert Scott was selected as the architect, he was deemed so young and inexperienced (I think he was 22!) that another guy worked on the designs with him. There is a model in the cathedral that shows the original design - it was quite different as it had 2 central towers.

However, the other guy (whose name escapes me) died after only a few years and Giles Gilbert Scott completely revised the plans. Hence - one enormo-tower.

Cheers Damon (and Martin). I thought there were originally supposed to have been two towers.

One of the problems that the builders of the cathedral had was that some of the chief patrons were Anglo-Catholic and expected a far more flamboyant style than would be expected in an Anglican cathedral.


Cheers Martin. In fact, wasn't Giles Gilbert Scott himself a Catholic - which led to some significant controversy when he was selected to design the Anglican cathedral!

Cheers Martin. In fact, wasn't Giles Gilbert Scott himself a Catholic - which led to some significant controversy when he was selected to design the Anglican cathedral!
That was actually the main reason they got on board another architect who was church of england, after this architect died Scott just reverted back to how he wanted the cathedral to look on his own....jobs a goodun!!

after this architect died Scott just reverted back to how he wanted the cathedral to look on his own

Hmmm, don't want to cast aspirtions on those no longer with us, but if I'd been around at the time I might have suggested that the police look into that death a little more closely...

Scott: "Ha haaa! Now that Bodley is gone, the cathedral is mine, all mine! Nyah ha haaaaa!" <evil snicker>

:hahaha: :hahaha: :rofl: