Juve fans turn backs on peace move

Reds' gesture of friendship not enough to heal 20 years of pain

Paul Kelso at Anfield
Wednesday April 6, 2005
The Guardian

The most powerful statement on a night of intense emotion came shortly before the first Liverpool-Juventus match in 20 years had begun. A group of supporters from both clubs approached the 2,600 Italian fans at the Anfield Road End carrying a banner bearing the words Memoria e amicizia, in memory and friendship.

It was a gesture intended to express regret and sorrow but it was met with a devastatingly eloquent response. As the banner moved forward, watched from the centre circle by Phil Neal, Michel Platini and Ian Rush, all of whom had played at Heysel, the front 10 rows simply turned their backs. They did so again moments later when Anfield stood for a minute's silence and supporters on the Kop displayed a mosaic repeating the sentiment, Amicizia .

The snub was not unanimous - the majority of those wearing black and white applauded the Kop - and neither was it typical of the atmosphere during a sparkling match, one that fulfilled hopes that an evening laden with symbolism would be remembered primarily for the football.

Protest aside, there were ample expressions of mutual respect, not least when both sets of supporters rose to applaud each other and their teams at the end of a breathless evening. Yet it demonstrated beyond question the abiding pain inflicted by those Liverpool supporters who had rioted before the fateful 1985 European Cup final.

Liverpool know more about tragedy than any football club. Their supporters have grieved for those lost at Hillsborough and campaigned tirelessly for those responsible to be brought to account. However, in contrast, their part in the carnage that occurred four years earlier had not been pub licly and unconditionally acknowledged. Last night, collective amnesia pricked by the unavoidable reminder of a Champions League quarter- final, Anfield finally faced up to the most shameful night in the club's history.

Alan Hansen, speaking in a radio interview before the match, got closer than anyone who had played that night to the heart of Liverpool's Heysel problem. "The only time I think about Heysel these days is when someone brings it up or reminds me of it," he said. "Of course if you had a family member die that day you never stop thinking about it."

Hansen's acknowledgment of the suffering of the 39 families robbed that night was a reminder that even someone as close to events as he was can forget. The Juve fans' protest emphasised that the victims do not enjoy such luxury.

Last night's game was not only the first time the teams had met since May 29 1985, it was also a reunion of sorts for many of those who bore witness. Players, officials, journalists and thousands of supporters gathered for the first time since, and fittingly they witnessed a public apology not only from the Kop but from individuals involved.

Terry Wilson, a Liverpool fan jailed for his part in the rioting, was given two pages of the match programme to say what many others have struggled to explain. Under the headline "I'm sorry" he wrote: "The older I have got the more remorse I have felt for my reactions on the night. I've grown up, I'm older and wiser now and I have learned from my mistakes. I am sorry for my reactions that night in Brussels to what was happening around me. I didn't go to Belgium looking for trouble . . . I'm not proud of my actions."

Wilson's words were part of a citywide expression of remorse. Red, white and black friendship wristbands were handed out before the kick-off and council workers toured the city distributing welcome packs to visiting supporters.

Anfield's chief executive Rick Parry, speaking before a match between supporters at Liverpool's academy, struck the tone for the day. "We are all sorry about what happened that night. We very much regret what happened. I hope we can all forgive and forget and move on. We have tried to ensure that the whole day is a day of friendship, an opportunity to move on together."

The supporters' match was an initiative prompted by Richard Buxton, who at 17 was not even born when Heysel happened. His idea was taken up by the Juventus Club Londra, who sent a team, and in a spontaneous gesture as effective as any witnessed yesterday offered him a ticket among the away support.

He accepted without reservation, but given the depth of feeling expressed last night it is unlikely that in Turin next week Liverpool fans will feel able to do the same.

Personally as a Liverpool fan, I thought it was all a bit OTT. But yeah, that section of Juve fans are nothing but a bunch of pricks. They're probably the hooligan section of the club, which also makes them hypocrites.

And another thing: they can blame some Liverpool fans for what happened at Heysel but starting the trouble? Had Juve's own fans not acted like twats by throwing rocks and shit at Liverpool fans I very much doubt there would've been a stampede. Oh, and UEFA are fuck maesters for ignoring pleas by both clubs not to play the match at Heysel. The fans may have charged, but it was the dodgy wall which collapsed and killed the 39.

Had they not thrown the bricks, then run away, causing a stampede, it would never have happened. The deaths were a tragedy but the blame can't be laid solely at Liverpool's door.

^Also, I'm willing to bet those idiots at last night's game were the sort of Juve fans who incited the riot in the first place. I mean, what did they expect Liverpool fans to do after having rocks hurled down at them? Smile back and wave? Let's be honest here, the violence that tragic day was no worse than other football violence of the 80s, it just so happened that a dodgy wall gave way and killed those underneath. Did UEFA accept any responsibility for ignoring warnings about ground safety beforehand? Did they fuck. Them self-righteous bastards saw fit not only to ban Liverpool from Europe but ALL ENGLISH CLUBS as well. Dickheads. Football should still await a very big apology from UEFA.

And the city of Liverpool apologising? Fuck right off. Just because I happen to come from the same city as the club whose minority of fans reacted under pressure does not mean that I should be dragged into this farce. Should we force the people of Hyde to apologise for the heinous crimes of Harold Shipman? Of course not, but since we're scousers it seems we're all responsible for any little speck of shit even remotely associated with the city. So yeah, what a complete and utter joke it all is. Shame. :no:

They don't have to accept any apology although in my view an apology is crass and unwarranted.

The dickheads who turned their backs are facist scum the Vikings and Drughi. Regardless of history they'd have made the 'macho' gesture. they're snides, horrible cunts, they don't seem to sense the irony of it all, they and their forebearers were implicit in the deaths of 39 people and injuries to hundreds more, not forgetting the bereaved.

I wasn't at Heysel, even if I was why should I apologise for it? the Echo campaign over this is sickening, where was their outcry in 1985 when reds got bricked and slashed in turin for the Super Cup or later that year in Rome? Where was it in 2001 and 2002 when loads were hospitalised, where was it in 1992 when we ran the gaunlet of psychopath riot police and gobshites with blades and iron bars, where's the 'apology' from Genoa, AS Roma, Juventus and the Italian government?

Heysel was wrong, the stadium was wrong, the policing was wrong, both sets of fans were culpable.

I had a few beers with a few Juve lads, spot on, they were enjoying it all, not these 'Ultra' types but still I hate Juventus, I hate their fans and everything that poxy football club stands for, exemplified by the wearing of 2 stars on their jerseys last night, signifying their 2 European Cup wins. Any institution with any dignity and respect would have written the first one out of their history as a mark of respect for the circumstances involved. Not Juventus though.

They'll be around 5,000 Liverpool in Milan and Turin next week, god knows what will await them. One thing I'm sure about is they won't attack groups but ones and twos will get cut from behind, they'll get little or no protection from the Italian police and we'll carry the blame.

Well said Toadboy. I agree with everything you say, the last paragraph in particular. I hope I am wrong but I think our fans will have a very hard time in Turin, just like Rome 84, and Rome just recently where several Liverpool fans were slashed (from behind) by cowardly Italian twats. I was in Rome 84, and Brussels 85, and I have no need to apologise for anything.

Juve fans turn backs on peace move

The most powerful statement on a night of intense emotion came shortly before the first Liverpool-Juventus match in 20 years had begun. A group of supporters from both clubs approached the 2,600 Italian fans at the Anfield Road End carrying a banner bearing the words Memoria e amicizia, in memory and friendship.

It was a gesture intended to express regret and sorrow but it was met with a devastatingly eloquent response. As the banner moved forward, watched from the centre circle by Phil Neal, Michel Platini and Ian Rush, all of whom had played at Heysel, the front 10 rows simply turned their backs. They did so again moments later when Anfield stood for a minute's silence and supporters on the Kop displayed a mosaic repeating the sentiment, Amicizia.

I think the most fitting gesture would have been to eject all ten rows from the stadium. Clearly they were not there to see the football.

They were facing the wrong way.

Seriously, if Juve dickhead hooligan groups start on our fans next week, they can go fuck themselves till they die a horrible death, cos this whole Heysel thing fucking stinks to the brim. I'm fed up of harbouring the blame for others, especially cuntwipe Juventus "fans" who act like the cockweeds who incited trouble that fateful day in May 1985. They can go fuck right off quite royally they can, for they're nothing but total arsewipes who would kill football fans themselves.

Bloody hell Pobbie, you're an angry, angry man at the moment aren't you? :lol:

Get yourself into the Liverpool forum and look at all the developments shaping our great City to cheer yourself up. Although, when something's pissing you off, the best way to deal with it is to rant like crazy :bleep:

Against Roma in 2002, 4 of my mates were walking from the City Centre towards the stadium. A group of Roma ultras went past on lambrettas and slashed them. Two of my mates missed the game as a result (one ended up having 30 odd stitches in his hand and arm). They were lucky to escape alive. We can expect the same (or worse) in Turin.

But these things are never reported in the national media are they.

Bloody hell Pobbie, you're an angry, angry man at the moment aren't you? :lol:

Get yourself into the Liverpool forum and look at all the developments shaping our great City to cheer yourself up. Although, when something's pissing you off, the best way to deal with it is to rant like crazy :bleep:
Bloody hell yeah! I haven't been in there in absolutely ages. Partly because I've been away for a while, partly because I'd talked about everything there is to talk about. I know West Tower has been approved lately though. :D

Most of that anger is generated by the scouse syndrome, which seems to dictate that anything bad even remotely associated with the city of Liverpool means we're somehow all responsible. This may apply to other places as well. An instance much more recent and trivial than Heysel would be Boris Johnson's comments about Liverpool. As stupid and inane as they were, I had to defend myself against my mates for ages. Yes, all because of a nationally-condemned comment by some stuck-up toff. Then there was my mates a while back asking me if I was gonna watch the last episode of Brookside. No... "Why don't you watch the last episode of Brookside, cos I couldn't care less myself." :ohno:

I have no doubt that there is going to be a riot in Turin...Juventus are going to get there asses banned.

What really annoys me about our fan safety in Turin is that Liverpool made an effort to welcome Juve supporters as much as possible, yet our fans are now being warned not to travel to Turin. The double standards are ridiculous.

exemplified by the wearing of 2 stars on their jerseys last night, signifying their 2 European Cup wins

each star represents 10 scudetto's (chamionships) ,it has nothing to do with European Cups. Milan for example now has 1 star and when they reach their 20th championship they will also wear a 2nd star...

My error, apologies for misinforming people. Thanks for the correction Caeser. And I'm hoping Milan can take the title this year!

Your tag is significant, the authorities, police and businesses in Turin will be putting a lot of pressure on hooligan groups before next week with the winter games approaching. Whether it'll have an impact is any ones guess.

Amongst all the faux guilt and 'closure' that's been going on, the families and bereaved have really been over looked. I'm not going to apologise to anyone, especially not some wannabe gangster and facist boot boy, but at the same I do hope that those still suffering can get some sort of justice and closure soon. As usual football fans meant nothing to the authorities so the show trials that followed were aimed at steadying opinion rather than carrying justice out. UEFA, The British, Italian and Belgian governments, the local Brussels authorities and both football clubs, should have done more.

Liverpool fans offerd the apology whether juventus fans accept or reject it is up to themselves. Liverpool have done whats needed to be done and now the matter is over. liverpool shouldnt make any more apologies over what had happend. Its the juve fans problem if the want to reject it.

Also i think the traviling fans to turin should be prepared to defend themselves. Its going to be the complete opposite of the first leg.

Well, I'm not from Turin or a Juventus-fan so I don't know how the atmosphere will be before the game. But indeed it would be terrible for promotion of the Wintergames if there would be riots... . So I guess there will be a lot of security-measures and they will certainly try to promote a match without incidents, but of course the behaviour of some people is unpredictable...

I also think these Ultras believe they have a score to settle. They view the charge by Liverpool fans and the retreat of thier own fans at Heysel as some sort of humiliation which they must rectify. There may even be some guilt there as well - if they hadn't run away the disaster wouldn't of happened. It would be a grave mistake to go to Turin believing everything is alright between the two sets of supporters, far from it. If I was going I would seriously watch my back.

On the star on shirts thing. I remember Liverpool wearing four stars during the champions league (not this time) and I assumed it was for each European cup win. And I assumed that was why Juventus were wearing two stars on wednesday night.

Most of that anger is generated by the scouse syndrome, which seems to dictate that anything bad even remotely associated with the city of Liverpool means we're somehow all responsible.

The mistake is to equate a city to a sport - one sport - football. The city is far far bigger than one sport, far bigger than football. Football is a game. A city is a city. Liverpool is innocent. Football is not.

Exactly. The same goes for everything else in life.

John McCririck, Tony Wilson, Boris Johnson, etc. fuck right off! :tongue:

one thign that gets me is how come the slightest bit of trouble from brits and we get threats of being kicked out and banned from competitions... yet the shitloads hooligan activies from any other european nation gets sweeped under the fucking carpet (example the milan match.. if that were english we'd be looking at all the english teams being kicked out without even a meeting or a debate over it!!)... twats!!

The bottle and flare throwing was a godd (well a very bad example really) of what led to the deaths of 39 people in 1985. Looks like some people never learn.

http://www.forumfree.net/?t=3143863

if you wanna do peace with juventini go here.^

One thing that should have been made very clear from the start by
the media and more so by UEFA is that this wasn't murder it was a
tragedy.
The worse thing them twats in UEFA could have done and they did
it was to ban all English clubs. Yes they should have banned liverpool
from Europe for the trouble their minority caused and they should have
made it perfectly clear why that ban was in place. Because a minority
of liverpool fans were involved in violence. That's fair enough it's happened
to my team Leeds Utd and others. This blanket ban though was for all
English clubs and so was seen by the larger audience as punishment
for the trouble which caused the 39 deaths; which is a load of bollox.
This was a tragedy that wouldn't have happened if the structure of the
stand had been sound.
I don't think it is fair to lay the blame at either sets of supporters.

UEFA are a bunch of cunts.

another reason to hate thatcher, many attribute the comments she made following the tragedy to UEFA taking such draconian measures.

UEFA + FIFA are anti-english organisations. this is hardly a revelation.

another reason to hate thatcher, many attribute the comments she made following the tragedy to UEFA taking such draconian measures.

UEFA + FIFA are anti-english organisations. this is hardly a revelation.



I don't think Thatcher was in power when two Leeds fans were murdered
in istanbul before the UEFA cup semi. It was UEFA who let the game go ahead
less than 24 hours after the event. It was UEFA who decided not to take
action against the murderers team, It was UEFA who charged Leeds United
for failing to control their players in said game!!! and it was UEFA who chose
istanbul for this years CL final.

I don't think Thatcher had any influence whatsoever over UEFA when they
came to the decision of banning all English clubs for five years.

UEFA are cunts.

Why should UEFA have taken action against Galatasary?

That incident happened away from the ground, totally beyond their control. And I still think that incident could have been avoided. I'm not saying those lads deserved to die, or even be stabbed, but there must have been a fair amount of provocation for them to be attacked. They can't have just been stabbed for no reason. Should never have happened though.

I have no problem with the final being played in Istanbul. Its no more dangerous than any other City - but if you disrespect the locals then you're asking for trouble. There were no problems whatsoever when we played there in 2002. It'll be a lot different as Gala. won't be playing either.

Why should UEFA have taken action against Galatasary?

That incident happened away from the ground, totally beyond their control. And I still think that incident could have been avoided. I'm not saying those lads deserved to die, or even be stabbed, but there must have been a fair amount of provocation for them to be attacked. They can't have just been stabbed for no reason. Should never have happened though.

I have no problem with the final being played in Istanbul. Its no more dangerous than any other City - but if you disrespect the locals then you're asking for trouble. There were no problems whatsoever when we played there in 2002. It'll be a lot different as Gala. won't be playing either.

The attack was not provoked, that was one of the reasons their defence
team said why it happened. The attack was pre-meditated and they were
going to kill the first Leeds fans they saw. Leeds fans were behaving in the
same way any away fans behave no more so provocative than any other
away support from any country. Saying that the attack was provoked is
about as valid as Ali G playing the race card.

The simple reason that the attack was pre-meditated by galatasary fans is
every reason why UEFA should get involved. The murders were done in the
name of that football club. It doesn't matter where the murders took place it
does matter that the attack involved galatasary football clubs supporters.

How many times have England FC's supporters been involved in trouble miles
away from the ground? How many times have UEFA used the fucking pathetic
excuse of 'it happened away from the ground' when coming to any disciplinary
actions against England FC and its supporters?
They haven't... it doesn't matter where England supporters cause trouble or
how much away from the ground any incident was, they are still going to take
action. That is why UEFA should have taken action against galatasary.

If it had of been two turks getting murdered in Leeds City Centre (2 miles from
the ground) do you honestly think the game would have gone ahead? Do you
honestly think that Leeds United would have escaped any action? Do you
think a CL final would have taken place in Leeds (if we had the facilities) just
five years later?

"They can't have just been stabbed for no reason"
No they were stabbed because they were English football fans.
Thanks to UEFA and the media our reputation comes before us.

UEFA are cunts.