There is a thread about everyone hating Toronto so here is the appreciation thread. I have argued against Toronto many times at these forums but I am starting to like the city. It has population, height, parks, waterfront, a high standard of living, nightlife, cuisine, money, and much more. It is the financial center for all of Canada. We owe a lot to Toronto and we are all Canadians. Torontonians have come to the defence of Vancouverites many times. It is time to stop the fighting! :grouphug:

So, sing your praises of the city and even post photos!

"It has height, parks, waterfront, a higher standard of living, and money. "


Who cares about that stuff...it has great roti and bathhouses...far more important.





KGB

I appreciate many things about Toronto. Amoung many things is the city's parks, street life, safety, diversity, good clean PT, reasonable prices, nice people, etc.

There are many things to like about Toronto but the waterfront need much improvement before its one of them.

"but the waterfront need much improvement before its one of them."


You do mean that little section of it on the east side of the harbour? I don't know why people get all worked up about it...it's completely out of site to almost anybody...it really doesn't interfere with the rest of the city or waterfront at all. But it is an exciting opportunity...and that's how people should look at it. It's such a large scale project that no matter what, it's going to take a long time to complete and is going to be frought with issues, so it's just a waste of energy to fret about it.






KGB

I hate Toronto

Im trying not to be a jerk anymore.

:dance:

I hate Toronto
Why would you hate Toronto. Its not where I would want to live, but I don't hate the city and I dont mind visiting the city.

he's kidding. Follow the link on his sig - or better yet don't.

Well, touraccuracy, you've definitely been one of the more annoying bashers... I'll be sad to see you go :D

I luv T.O., hogtown, THA T DOT, the big smoke, 'most diverse city', mistake by the lake, Hollywood North,tha 4-1-6 to tha 9-0-5 (or 6-4-7 to tha 2-8-9) Toronto the Good, Toronno, Trono, Toranna, Taranna, blue and white country, raptorland, blue jays way, ahhhrrrrgoooossss...
now if we can only do something about that big red tape that sticks....

an average city

Born in NYC. . .moved to Toronto because of job prospects and healthcare; and Im not homesick, T dot is great.

T.O is great.
There's too much good to list.

I love Toronto :stupid:

^ EASILY one of the stupidest forumers I have ever seen since I started this hobby in 2001.

Toronto is an awsome city!

I don't know why some people dislike Toronto so much, it is a great city.

Cheers! :cheers:

i have no beefs about toronto, but then again, i really can't judge it since i've never been there.

I'm with Billy Corgan. There's no point in trying to start an appreciation thread for such a hell-hole. Even with all this non-stop glorious spring weather, the city sucks.

My major beefs include:
Diversity - everyone is a different colour, very haphazard, there is no uniformity
Food - same as above. 8000 restaurants and most of them are different. The food literally tastes different in each one.
Sports- every major N.A. sport is represented, impossible to focus
New Development - almost unmatched in N.A. Imagine the mess, roads are covered with dirt from excavation. To make matters worse, hundreds of buildings have been, and are being, designed by different architects-Libeskind, Foster, Alsop, Gehry, Calatrava, local designers... imagine the mess. Nothing, and I do mean nothing... matches. Ridiculous.

Toronto is crap, because its not the most livable place, and because of the bitter snow 9 months of the year. The skydome's roof isn't really white, its just the permafrost accumulation. And the buildings are too tall.

Food - same as above. 8000 restaurants and most of them are different.

Sports- every major N.A. sport is represented, impossible to focus


You are including quite a few tim hortens no doubt.

N.A. sport represented, meaning Toronto has the argos, so it has a footbal team which is a 'major' N.A. sport, not not a major N.A. franchise in a major league.

Toronto is crap, because its not the most livable place, and because of the bitter snow 9 months of the year. The skydome's roof isn't really white, its just the permafrost accumulation. And the buildings are too tall.

Right on!!! :D

I hate Toronto because I can walk along a different major commercial street or avenue once a day for at least a month and never do the same one twice. And then there's still the 9-oh-5.

I hate Toronto for the ugly black buildings in the skyline and the penis-like CN tower and its lone testicle, the Rogers Centre. :( I also hate how the TTC can get you around the city and how ugly the buses look. Why Can't Toronto just build 20 more highways? I also hate how Toronto is developing all the new useless land into condo highrises and new communities why can't we just build a landfill right there?

Stupid Torontonians!

(elliot)
"Diversity - everyone is a different colour, very haphazard, there is no uniformity"
-are you racist? We're the (or one of the) most multi-cultural city.

"Food - same as above. 8000 restaurants and most of them are different. The food literally tastes different in each one."
-...how is that a problem? If you want uniformity, check out Tim Hortons.

"Sports- every major N.A. sport is represented, impossible to focus"
-That is a great thing. What if you like hockey in a city that only has a major baseball team? Exactly.

"To make matters worse, hundreds of buildings have been, and are being, designed by different architects/...imagine the mess"
-funny. the result of that so-called mess is the result one of the most beautiful skylines ever.

LOL

(elliot)
"Diversity - everyone is a different colour, very haphazard, there is no uniformity"
-are you racist? We're the (or one of the) most multi-cultural city.

"Food - same as above. 8000 restaurants and most of them are different. The food literally tastes different in each one."
-...how is that a problem? If you want uniformity, check out Tim Hortons.

"Sports- every major N.A. sport is represented, impossible to focus"
-That is a great thing. What if you like hockey in a city that only has a major baseball team? Exactly.

"To make matters worse, hundreds of buildings have been, and are being, designed by different architects/...imagine the mess"
-funny. the result of that so-called mess is the result one of the most beautiful skylines ever.


LOL...
Dude, I think that was his joke. I bet he's from the same city like u, TuglyO.

Baaahahahaaa

Dude, your hilarious.

Toronto is a great city for people who are new to Canada.

my bad

As an ex-quebecer I hate Toronto bacause it showed me it was OK to be an anglo in your own country...

I love the fact that Vince returns to play in Toronto in another uniform this weekend...
The ACC is gonna be packed with the boooo birds.

I have tickets to that game, pretty good ones too. I can't wait. :)

I love the fact that the city is going to build a 6/700' Ritz Carlton that looks like it might fall over... at the same time that TTT will roar beyond 1100 feet and may indeed fall over... and Harry will redesign Sapphire for the 5th time to top the Burj and while holding court at his press conference, will trip on his prose, and fall over.

Where else in Canuckistan can you find this kind of highrise entertainment!

I love the fact that the city is going to build a 6/700' Ritz Carlton that looks like it might fall over... at the same time that TTT will roar beyond 1100 feet and may indeed fall over... and Harry will redesign Sapphire for the 5th time to top the Burj and while holding court at his press conference, will trip on his prose, and fall over.

Where else in Canuckistan can you find this kind of highrise entertainment!

I love the fact that Torontonians are debating the merits of an early concept illustration for a 500/600 foot 2 tower complex that would be snapped up in a minute by any other city in Canada... oui?

Wonder what tomorrow will bring.... it's almost like Dubai, except there's no sand and it's a real city. Though it is 27 degrees C in April. ;-)

27 degrees C today, 21 yesterday.. 21 in a few days...

what ever happened to all the vancouver heads braggin about their 'great' weather?

^Perhaps it was washed away by all the rain. ;)































































Relax, I am perfectly aware that it may not have rained in Vancouver over the past few days. It was merely a small joke.

27 degrees C today, 21 yesterday.. 21 in a few days...

Remember when it was 20 degrees back in February in Abbotsford....ahh thats right. Glad you guys are catching up...its only 2 months later ;)

It may be warmer there now, but at least our trees are full of lush green leaves now, were about 2 months ahead of you in that department too.

Screw nature and weather. Who cares about trees when you have these sprouting up everywhere?



Sapphire Tower - 1,118 ft spire (1,030 ft. roof) 88 floors
Trump International - 1,064 ft. spire (988 ft. roof) 70 floors
First Canadian Place - 978 ft. 72 floors
Scotia Plaza - 972 ft. 68 floors
Canada Trust Tower [BCE Place] - 856 ft. 53 floors
Ritz Carlton Hotel - HEIGHT NEEDED 53 floors
Commerce Court West - 784 ft. 57 floors
Toronto Dominion Bank Tower [Toronto-Dominion Centre] - 731 ft. 56 floors
1 Bloor East - 718 ft. 60 floors
Signature Tower [CityPlace] - 714 ft. 69 floors
***OFFICE*** Simcoe Place II - HEIGHT NEEDED 50 floors
Bay Wellington Tower [BCE Place] - 679 ft. 49 floors
***OFFICE*** Bay-Adelaide Centre - 679 ft. 45 Floors
***OFFICE*** BCE III [BCE Place] - HEIGHT NEEDED 49 floors
City Centre Tower [Hummingbird Centre] - 619 ft. 50 floors
Royal Trust Tower - 600 ft. 46 floors
***OFFICE*** Richmond Adelaide Centre - 595 ft. 41 floors
Royal Bank Plaza South - 591 ft. 40 floors
1 King West - 578 ft. 51 floors
***OFFICE*** MLSE Tower - 570 ft. ~52 floors
***OFFICE*** 151 Front Street West - 549 ft. 36 floors
44 Charles Street West [Manulife Centre] - 545 ft. 51 floors
The Pointe @ Minto Midtown - 525 ft. 52 floors
One City Hall Phase II - HEIGHT NEEDED - 50 floors
The Uptown Residences - 518 ft. 48 floors
Festival Tower - 514 ft. 42 floors
College Park Tower I - 505 ft. 52 floors
79 Wellington Street West [Toronto-Dominion Centre] - 504 ft. 39 floors
Harbour View Estates II [CityPlace] - 503 ft. - 49 floors
Exchange Tower - 502 ft. 36 floors
The 250 - 494 ft. 35 floors
Two Bloor West - 488 ft. 34 floors
590 Jarvis - 487 ft. 45 floors
Bank of American Tower [Simcoe Place] - 486 ft. 33 floors
West ONE [CityPlace] - 484 ft. 49 floors
Parkway Forest I [Parkway Forest] - 479 ft. 48 floors
Commerce Court North - 476 ft. 34 floors
Spire - 476 ft. 45 floors
Simpson Tower - 472 ft. 33 floors
Cadillac Fairview Tower - 466 ft. 36 floors
Murano Tower I - 459 ft. 41 floors
Pantages Tower - 458 ft. 46 floors
Palace Place - 453 ft. 46 floors
Palace Pier - 453 ft. 46 floors
College Park Tower II - HEIGHT NEEDED - 45 floors
33 Charles St. East - 453 ft. 43 floors
Continental Bank of Canada Building [Richmond-Adelaide Centre] - 449 ft. 33 floors
***OFFICE*** 18 York Street - 449 ft. 37 floors
Pinnacle Building C [Pinnacle Centre] - 449 ft. 46 floors
Sheraton Centre Hotel - 443 ft. 43 floors
Two Bloor East - 439 ft. 34 floors
Ernst & Young Tower [Toronto-Dominion Centre] - 437 ft. 31 floors
Verve - 433 ft. 43 floors
Empire Tower - 427 ft. 28 floors
One Financial Place - 424 ft. 31 floors
Leaside Towers II - 423 ft. 44 floors
Leaside Towers I - 423 ft. 44 floors
Canadian Pacific Tower [Toronto Dominion Centre] - 420 ft. 32 floors
Metro Hall West - 420 ft. 27 floors
Parkway Forest II [Parkway Forest] - 420 ft. 42 floors
Parkway Forest IV [Parkway Forest] - 420 ft. 42 floors
Parkway Forest V [Parkway Forest] - 420 ft. 42 floors
Marriott Hotel/Plaza 2 Apartments [Hudson's Bay Centre] - 415 ft. 41 floors
The MET Phase I - 415 ft. 43 floors
Sun Life Centre East Tower - 410 ft. 28 floors
N1 [CityPlace] - 410 ft. 42 floors
Yonge Eglinton Centre I - 408 ft. 30 floors
Royal York Hotel - 407 ft. 28 floors
Harbour View Estates I [CityPlace] - HEIGHT NEEDED 40 floors
Number One York Quay South Tower - HEIGHT NEEDED 40 floors

http://www.inclearimage.com/buildto/ritz1.jpg

Remember when it was 20 degrees back in February in Abbotsford....ahh thats right. Glad you guys are catching up...its only 2 months later ;)

It may be warmer there now, but at least our trees are full of lush green leaves now, were about 2 months ahead of you in that department too.

But we have no serious risk of earthquakes. I think that's a fair trade-off. Toronto may have a pretty extreme climate (hot summers, cold-ish winters) but when you consider a lack of hurricanes, earthquakes, tornados, volcanos, tsunamis etc. I think its a fair trade-off.

Reasons why I appreciate Toronto:
1. Gorgeous, vibrant city
2. Its the city by the lake (its a great setting)
3. The people (they are far nicer than people from outside the city seem to think)
4. The Leafs (see avatar :) )
5. The GTA is home, and therefore like no other
and many, many more reasons...

Thats awesome skybean!

We have those spouting up everywhere too. You can't go anywhere in downtown Vancouver without seeing a high-rise under-construction, or in the case of concord pacific 8, 9 or 10 all under construction at the same time within metres of each other. Both cities are booming.

True, but Convention Centre aside, the ONLY things being built in downtown Vancouver are condos. I'd be bored to death living there!

Toronto on the other hand - just about every museum is undergoing a major renovation, a couple office buildings, new waterfront park & promenade, educational/institutional buildings, condos and it goes on and on.

Pic of the proposed Maple Leaf Square complex to be complete by 2009:
http://www.nba.com/media/raptors/mlsquare_500.jpg

174m / 570 ft.^^^


Lester B. Pearson International- UNDER CONSTRUCTION
http://images.toronto.com/feature/324/Aerial-All-Green.jpg

TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO TORONTO

"We have those spouting up everywhere too. You can't go anywhere in downtown Vancouver without seeing a high-rise under-construction"

Sorry but Vancouver hi-rise is Toronto mid-rise... 30 storeys barely merits a reply. Nice little town you live in though. It's just that this forum is "SkyscraperCity".

I love Smog in Toronto, so cool...
I hope Vancouver has smog like Toronto. Damn, I'm jealous.

^What is this smog that you talk about? Crystal clear skies today.

I love Smog in Toronto, so cool...
I hope Vancouver has smog like Toronto. Damn, I'm jealous.

Cause we can see Toronto looks soooo smoggy, dark and depressing....right?


http://img259.echo.cx/img259/3120/6888329o3xi.jpg

Are you sure it was the smog that made you jealous?
Or maybe it was something else.

http://img244.echo.cx/img244/2528/205515799eaykrefs4ig.jpg

"We have those spouting up everywhere too. You can't go anywhere in downtown Vancouver without seeing a high-rise under-construction"

Sorry but Vancouver hi-rise is Toronto mid-rise... 30 storeys barely merits a reply. Nice little town you live in though. It's just that this forum is "SkyscraperCity".

Comments like yours, Elliot, are so childish and baseless that I doubt I could hold a genuine conversation with you in real life if what you write here is any indications of your maturity.

Skyscrapercity pales in comparison to the discussions on SSP because of contributors like yourself, Elliot. Constant rambling about this city or that, sprinkled with idiotic comments and opinions.

Enough with these bullshit threads and ridiculous commentary. Time to move on. Hopefully some of you will mature once you graduate high school, and for the those who have graduated, I suggest you seek a hobby other than wasting bandwidth.

Are you sure it was the smog that made you jealous?
Or maybe it was something else.

http://img244.echo.cx/img244/2528/205515799eaykrefs4ig.jpg

Seriously... nature this, nature that, smog this, smog that. It's like a broken record.

Vancouver is a WONDERFUL outdoor city but for a city its size it lack a nightlife, museums, galleries, variety and well, a soul. When the city council sets up a commision to try to make Vancouver the "no-fun-city, then things are pretty bad.
Montreal and Toronto are wonderful and each offers something unique.
Vancouverites might hate to hear this but when it comes to major Canadian cities Vancouver is an also-ran. Decent enough place and truly beautiful but dynamic and world-class it isn't.

True, but Convention Centre aside, the ONLY things being built in downtown Vancouver are condos. I'd be bored to death living there!

Yeah there are a lot of condos, but boring? Hardly. It's just pumping more and more people into the core, and the vibrantness is only rising by the year.

Besides the condos, there was a massive new plaza/park opened at the foot of Richards Street along the False Creek sea wall. It's part of Condord Pacific and surrounded by about 10-12 new luxury high rise buildings ranging from 15-43 storeys...really impressive when you see it in person, the size of it is unlike anything i've seen in Vancouver, a friend who was with me said it reminded him of a public square in Paris.

Besides condos though, the new Paramount cinemas are just about finished construction, that is a massive building on Burrard & Smithe. As you mentioned the convention centre. A huge downtown costco is going in underneath some condos over by GM Place, Bentall 5 triple A office tower is about to start on vertical phase 2 that will see it climb to over 500 feet. There are many commercial buildings on the go, they are just combined with residential because mixed-use in CD zones is very popular.

So theres more than just Residential going up, and im sure ive left quite a lot out...but even with residential, what their building looks great imo!

lack a nightlife

Have you been to Granville Street on a Saturday night lately? Probably not...

Sorry but Vancouver hi-rise is Toronto mid-rise... 30 storeys barely merits a reply

Thats because your city is located in a ugly flat location with nothing to show, so building 800 plus feet skyscrapers isnt a loss. Disgusting waterfront... need i say more.

lack a nightlife

And Toronto's is so much better right? I think Salt Springs is starting to have a negative effect on you, maybe its time to make the move to Vancouver.

Thats because your city is located in a ugly flat location with nothing to show, so building 800 plus feet skyscrapers isnt a loss. Disgusting waterfront... need i say more.

It's not exactly flat. There is an extensive system of ravines. I prefer Vancouver's setting to Toronto's setting though-- although in terms of setting Toronto is not ugly. The waterfront is beautiful but could use improvement. In terms of the actual city, Toronto is more visually appealing in my opinion. Perhaps you should visit sometime.



For Toronto bashers.. The world's tallest freestanding middle finger

http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_02.24.05/op/photos/editorial.JPGhttp://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_02.24.05/op/photos/editorial.JPG

http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_02.24.05/op/photos/editorial.JPGhttp://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_02.24.05/op/photos/editorial.JPG

http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_02.24.05/op/photos/editorial.JPGhttp://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_02.24.05/op/photos/editorial.JPG

Thats because your city is located in a ugly flat location with nothing to show, so building 800 plus feet skyscrapers isnt a loss. Disgusting waterfront... need i say more.

Toronto is not flat, infact it has some of the most spectacular ravines you will see right in the heart of the city.

http://img62.exs.cx/img62/9495/PICT5722.jpg

http://img63.exs.cx/img63/3001/PICT5727.jpg

http://img62.exs.cx/img62/4301/PICT6064.jpg

http://img26.exs.cx/img26/2023/PICT6387.jpg

http://img52.exs.cx/img52/1165/PICT7936.jpg

http://img52.exs.cx/img52/6815/PICT8565.jpg

http://img67.exs.cx/img67/2629/PICT8566.jpg

http://img11.exs.cx/img11/5743/PICT4781.jpg

I love Torontonians, so rude, so arrogant, so moron.
Damn, I want to be Torontonians, so no one loves me.
I'm so jealous with you guys.

^I dunno man you seem to be the only rude, arrogant and moronic person here from either side.

^I dunno man you seem to be the only rude, arrogant and moronic person here from either side.

Well said Homer. Van-Tbird, we got the idea that you hate Toronto long ago. No need to repeat yourself. Now b'gone foul pest!

Sho fly, dun bother me.

Toronto is not flat, infact it has some of the most spectacular ravines you will see right in the heart of the city.


It's okay Dr. Joe. You have shown these pics numerous times. I am sure Sukh has seen these before. People just do not want to accept the fact that Toronto is not a hell hole. The " Toronto is a flat, smoggy POS" disease cannot be cured within these pests.

^The way I see it, it is like a brainwashing thang. People from Vancouver hear their whole lives how terrible, polluted, boring, unfriendly and cold Toronto is. When somebody tries to tell them different, its just too far out of the realm of what is possible for them to grasp.

I just feel sorry for them and all the things that many of these individuals that feel this way. They miss out on a lot by not exploring places like Toronto, NYC, London, and other larger cities because of this almost foolish obsession with the west coast and everywhere else sucks thingy.








Anyways back onto topic, I appriciate Toronto because I can walk 10 minutes down the street with my dog and be in one of the worlds most extensive urban park systems (which is something that cannot be said for Vancouver).

I am sure Sukh has seen these before

Actually i havent, but i thank him for posting them. Those comments that i was responding to were stupid, as everyone knows the big reason as to why Vancouvers building are not super tall.

(which is something that cannot be said for Vancouver).

meh, Stanley Park is more popular and more well known.


Anyways i guess i also appreciate a small thing about Toronto or related to Toronto, i am a basketball fan, or atleast i used to be a big one, i appreciate the city of Toronto knowing how to keep a NBA franchise up and running when the team was in trouble.

I never knew TO looked like that in places, do yo have any more photos of those ravines?

Contrary to what many believe, Toronto is not flat. It is inplaces very hilly and dramatic.

All of these pics have been taken by other forum members, and not me. Please do not hyperlink them elsewhere.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/eighteighths/Ravines/ravine3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/eighteighths/Ravines/ravine2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/eighteighths/Ravines/ravine1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/eighteighths/Ravines/PICT8566.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/eighteighths/Ravines/PICT7936.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/eighteighths/Ravines/PICT7374.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/eighteighths/Ravines/PICT5701.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/eighteighths/Ravines/PICT5516.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/eighteighths/Ravines/PICT5497.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/eighteighths/Ravines/PICT4783.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/eighteighths/Ravines/PICT4781.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/eighteighths/Ravines/PICT4338.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/eighteighths/Ravines/PICT2529.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/eighteighths/Ravines/PICT513.jpg



This is why I appriciate Toronto.

NO WAY! I had not idea Toronto had a ski hill!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/eighteighths/Ravines/PICT2529.jpg

I love Toronto because it accepts and loves all. Don't matter if your white, black, brown, Asian, gay, straight, fat, skinny, F*(&#$ up or whatever. Tolerance for all. That's what I love.

Location: Vancouver, BC;
I love Torontonians, so rude, so arrogant, so moron.
Damn, I want to be Torontonians, so no one loves me.
I'm so jealous with you guys.




I'm so jealous with you guys too! Whatever that means.

The thing is, these kids from Vancity who like to use mature words like... well.. "immature", have these enormous chains hanging from their necks.

And who could resist yanking those chains?

Need a "chain yanking" emoticon or something. Free advice: if you don't want to "appreciate" the big smoke 'cause you live in a little smoke, don't visit these topic-specific threads.

Location: Vancouver, BC;
I love Torontonians, so rude, so arrogant, so moron.
Damn, I want to be Torontonians, so no one loves me.
I'm so jealous with you guys.




I'm so jealous with you guys too! Whatever that means.

The thing is, these kids from Vancity who like to use mature words like... well.. "immature", have these enormous chains hanging from their necks.

And who could resist yanking those chains?

Need a "chain yanking" emoticon or something. Free advice: if you don't want to "appreciate" the big smoke 'cause you live in a little smoke, don't visit these topic-specific threads.

hahahaha sorry but i just have to laugh, because your a sad sad comedian, the big smoke eh? what do you think you some sort of NY City, trying to put the word big in every nickname of your city? But then again "some" people over there sure try to act like it. Keep trying.

um, in Canada, one of Toronto's nicknames is 'the big smoke'. You shouldn't laugh at your own ignorance.

hahahaha sorry but i just have to laugh, because your a sad sad comedian, the big smoke eh? what do you think you some sort of NY City, trying to put the word big in every nickname of your city? But then again "some" people over there sure try to act like it. Keep trying.


Huh?

Are you blazed or something?

Toronto has been called the big smoke for the better part of the last century so Elliot was not the first person to give the city that nickname.

But hey, you just prove everybody's point once again. You know, that you don't seem to know much about Toronto if anything.

No wonder nobody takes you seriously.

And Toronto's is so much better right?

Actually yes, there are a lot better bars/clubs in Toronto. I've partied there a few times and would take that aspect of Toronto over Vancouver anyday. However, it doesn't mean there is a lack of nightlife in Vancouver. I live downtown and can go out any day of the week to great club nights. Theres lots going on depending what your into.

This is one of the reasons I love visiting Toronto. Everytime i'm there I go to the Guvernment..it's a super-club unlike anything in Vancouver, with about 8 different bars in one complex; Guvernment & Kool Haus being the largest about the size of 2 high school gyms each.

Here are a few pics. World Class place to party.

This is the coat check area in Kool Haus. When I was there in 2002 they had a live DJ just for the coat check hall, and a living statue of a mermaid as you walked thru the club doors.

http://www.theguvernment.com/photos/ko5.jpg

One of the bars in Kool Haus

http://www.theguvernment.com/photos/ko4.jpg

http://www.theguvernment.com/photos/dr4.jpg


This area is kinda Star Trek themed....its the Goldclub VIP lounge
http://www.theguvernment.com/photos/g5.jpg

This is one of the hallways connecting bars within the complex. I was stuck in this hall for like 5 mins once it was so packed.

http://www.theguvernment.com/photos/o2.jpg


This is the Orange Room where they play Hip Hop.

http://www.theguvernment.com/photos/o3.jpg

http://www.theguvernment.com/photos/o4.jpg

This is skybar on the roof, seasonal only.
http://www.theguvernment.com/photos/s2.jpg

This is the Tantra Lounge. Good place to chill out.

http://www.theguvernment.com/photos/t1.jpg

http://www.theguvernment.com/photos/t2.jpg

This is Charlie's. I liked this room, good down-tempo house music with a mature crowd.

http://www.theguvernment.com/photos/c2.jpg

http://www.theguvernment.com/photos/c3.jpg

This is inside the actual Guvernment

http://www.theguvernment.com/photos/design2.jpg

http://www.theguvernment.com/photos/design1.jpg


Truly amazing complex. Hopefully they've upgraded a bit since I was there though, they have to keep up with current trends if they want to stay cutting edge. That was cutting edge for 2002.

^^ Gotta check out LUCID @ Richmond and John, in the heart of the club district.. It was the old Playdium that turned into a nightclub.
3 Floors + rooftop patio. Crazy place that includes the hundreds of LCD screens everywhere.

Those pics of the Guvenrment look cool, looks so neat and organized when there's nobody there. BTW, if anyone has pics of Lucid could you post em.

Toronto has been called the big smoke for the better part of the last century

Yes i am aware of that, i wasnt implying it wasnt named that, rather i was amused as to why it is called/named that, i suggest you read carefully before you respond, this isnt the first time you have done this either. Read!

Anyways back onto topic, I appriciate Toronto because I can walk 10 minutes down the street with my dog and be in one of the worlds most extensive urban park systems (which is something that cannot be said for Vancouver).

And you think your taken seriously with these kind of comments? :stupid:

there are a lot better bars/clubs in Toronto

I disagree somewhat, i dont care how big the club or bar is, as long as its full with people partying, plus that is only a part of nightlife scene, vibrancy on the streets, people just walking around late at night is what creates nightlife, so as you said there may be more of a variety and bigger clubs/bars there, and overall nightlife in general maybe better, but its nothing that puts Van's nightlife to shame.

hahahaha sorry but i just have to laugh, because your a sad sad comedian, the big smoke eh? what do you think you some sort of NY City, trying to put the word big in every nickname of your city? But then again "some" people over there sure try to act like it. Keep trying.

Well then maybe you should learn to write less offensively and with such ignorance rather than say people can't read your craptastic post.

I love Toronto for the amount of activity and the variety you get in every single little neighbourhood, from architecture to food!

By the sounds of it, I don't think Sukh is even old enough to go to a club!

What is Vancouver's largest nightclub anyway?

^ IM not sure, there are a lot of big clubs. Atlantis, Plush, Plaza are pretty big. Back in 2000 some promoters were trying to set up a guvernment style/size club at bridgeport in Richmond but city council wouldnt allow it. Height of the rave bubble basically and too much bad rep for the party crowd. Its too bad.

But big clubs dont necessarily mean their good. I know a lot of my friends in Toronto who have been partying for many years avoid Guvernment like a plague because of it's mainstream crowd from the burbs. Smaller clubs are where it's at for a lot of people, and can look just as good.

These are some pics from one my Fav clubs in Vancouver...Shine in Gastown. Its tiny but very cozy and stylish.

http://www.shinenightclub.com/photo_gallery/main_room_2.jpg

http://www.shinenightclub.com/photo_gallery/main_room.jpg

Theres some better seating features in this room and a "red room" as well I but can't find pics of them. Its along the lines of Guvernemnt's style though.

I think i've been to Shine. Is it in Gastown? You walk down a set of stairs to get to it? Cool place. I also like Sonar and Caprice. Sometimes you want big though. There's something about partying with 2,000 strangers.

I love the Guvernment though. It's not one of those places you go to regularly but rather you go to see a special DJ or concert. It has undergone some renos since 2002. They're always keeping up with the latest trends.

The best part is when there's a huge party and they open up the entire complex. You walk around and meet so many friggin' people. Each room has a different vide and sound. I love it. The digital sound system is also pretty wicked.

I really like The Docks too. Amazing patio, outdoor pool, outdoor gym, N.A's largest drive-in screen, ah! There's so much to do in that place. World's biggest Dynacord sound system too.

I must admit, Vancouver tends to have more of the trendier placers, albeit, less quantity overall.

Yes i am aware of that, i wasnt implying it wasnt named that, rather i was amused as to why it is called/named that, i suggest you read carefully before you respond, this isnt the first time you have done this either. Read!.

Well, thats not what you wrote. Maybe you sould read what your posted.

Secondly, Toronto is BIG (and is the BIGGEST) in a Canadian context, hence, people in Canada call it the BIG smoke. Its not big in your 'Toronto Sucks' context, or on an international playing field, but usually, most average people in Canada understand that without having to dumb it down. And considering this is in a Canadian thread, talking about Canadian cities, well, ...

I never knew TO looked like that in places, do yo have any more photos of those ravines?

The Don Valley, I use to see smoke in the ravine from small fires when I drove on the DVP. I though people were just picnicing but then read an article in the star how homeless bbq small rodents in the valley.

LOL. This is too perfect. Here's an exerpt from a msn conversation I just had with regards to a Vancouver club.

C = me, A = friend.

-----
C: is this the club we went to in Vancouver? - Shine
http://www.shinenightclub.com/photo_gallery/main_room_2.jpg
http://www.shinenightclub.com/photo_gallery/main_room.jpg
A: i dont remember going to a club in vanc
C: you don't remember going to a club in Vancouver? In Gastown and xxxx got trashed
A: man, i totally dont remember that
C: you sux0r
A: was i drinking? LOL
C: not much, but yea. we took a taxi to get there and back
A: OHHHH. S%^t yeah. now i remember. fuck .. that was so boring, i'd totally forgotten.
C: LOL
A: and i mean i'd forgotten by the time we were done our vanc trip. (in comparison) toronto clubs f#^%ing kick ass... the only thing that comes close in canada MIGHT be montreal ... but we still have a much larger selection. i mean honestly, i think in north america the only place that beats our clubs is L.A. our club district is MASSIVE
C: LOL. Too perfect.. Can I post this convo on a message board?
A: go for it
---------------

OK, he might have gone overboard with his North America comment. :) We never did figure out if that was the club that we went to but it does look like it. I just thought this conversation was funny and appropriate. DO NOT take it too seriously... It was a casual conversation.

416 - Yes thats Shine, the place in Gastown where you walk down the stairs to get in. Sonar used to be good but it has gone downhill in recent years. I believe they are only open Friday & Saturday nights now with weekdays open to bookings. The rave-bubble burst, along with the electronic music crowd so thats kinda why it's gone. Too bad, it was a great venue too. Your right there is something about partying with thousands of strangers. Thats why I used to skip bars and just go to raves, 5,000 person venues downtown Vancouver such as the plaza of nations, or 15,000 people parties outdoors in the Fraser Valley. Ahhh the good ol days.

i think in north america the only place that beats our clubs is L.A. our club district is MASSIVE

I've been to clubs in L.A. The ones i've been to werent anything I hadnt seen before.

Curious. Does Vancouver have a club district such as Toronto's, or are they mostly seperated? I like the idea of having a club district because everything is close and it's a massive party, but on the other hand it leads to problems. Not that the clubs outside of the district don't also have problems but they don't seem as frequent.

Yeah Granville Street is our relatively new club district. There were always clubs there before, but in the past few years a handfull of new ones have opened all within a few blocks stretch, making for one giant street party that gets quite out of hand every weekend. Theres a lot of controversy over it right now because of the rowdyness it's creating...extra policing costs, stupid people bringing guns and firing off shots every now and then. I like the vibe of the area though, there is great energy late on fri & sat nights.

Gastown has a cluster of clubs too, the same goes for Davie st. So there are a few districts but Granville is by far the largest. They might be extending it all the way to the Bridge too, 4 more blocks. They are holding forums on the possibility of it in June.

Yes i am aware of that, i wasnt implying it wasnt named that, rather i was amused as to why it is called/named that, i suggest you read carefully before you respond, this isnt the first time you have done this either. Read!

:LOL: Nice try their bud, but it didn't work on anybody else and it didn't work on me. I read what you said 4 times and it came around the same exact way. Perhaps you should follow what you said here only, instead of re-reading somebody else's post, you should read yours again.

Just a question, is English your second language?



And you think your taken seriously with these kind of comments? :stupid:

What, because the park system in Toronto is SO vast and accessible and I appriciate that?

Hate to bust it to you man but Vancouver does not have the most extensive network of parks and Stanely Park doesn't make up for it. The park is on a penisula far away from the average home, thus it is not a 10 minute walk to it.


I disagree somewhat, i dont care how big the club or bar is, as long as its full with people partying, plus that is only a part of nightlife scene, vibrancy on the streets, people just walking around late at night is what creates nightlife, so as you said there may be more of a variety and bigger clubs/bars there, and overall nightlife in general maybe better, but its nothing that puts Van's nightlife to shame.

I agree, big clubs just become magnets for the seriously un-hip like me. ;)

I've always prefered a smaller and more refined place to enjoy the nightlife.

The last point is a little weak as Vancouver does not have as much to offer in this department as one might think.

um, in Canada, one of Toronto's nicknames is 'the big smoke'. You shouldn't laugh at your own ignorance.

That's a nice name. I love "the big smog", sounds exotic and can cause lung disease.
You guys are so lucky to have the name "THE BIG SMOG" :applause:

I think i've been to Shine. Is it in Gastown? You walk down a set of stairs to get to it? Cool place. I also like Sonar and Caprice. Sometimes you want big though. There's something about partying with 2,000 strangers.

I love the Guvernment though. It's not one of those places you go to regularly but rather you go to see a special DJ or concert. It has undergone some renos since 2002. They're always keeping up with the latest trends.

The best part is when there's a huge party and they open up the entire complex. You walk around and meet so many friggin' people. Each room has a different vide and sound. I love it. The digital sound system is also pretty wicked.

I really like The Docks too. Amazing patio, outdoor pool, outdoor gym, N.A's largest drive-in screen, ah! There's so much to do in that place. World's biggest Dynacord sound system too.


Im not really a fan of Guvernment anymore. It can be alright, but being packed in like cattle with inadequate air conditioning isn't my idea of fun.

That's a nice name. I love "the big smog", sounds exotic and can cause lung disease.
You guys are so lucky to have the name "THE BIG SMOG" :applause:


On that note. Toronto's single largest(I think) smog creator will be closing next week, the Lakeview powerplant will be closing up shop next Saturday...By 2007 all 5 of Southern Ontario's coal powerplants are expected to be shutdown.

That's a nice name. I love "the big smog", sounds exotic and can cause lung disease.
You guys are so lucky to have the name "THE BIG SMOG" :applause:

Well, no one said they were proud of it. Most of Toronto's pollution problems blows from down south. You must be making a Sukh stretch on this one. It is what it is. YOu get one Vancouverite laughing and trying to be little the 'big' aspect, and then you get another laughing at the 'smoke' aspect. Quite typical in my opinion, you just can't win and take it as it is. Though, Sukh and Van-idiotbird arn't your typical level headed forumers.

Well, no one said they were proud of it. Most of Toronto's pollution problems blows from down south. You must be making a Sukh stretch on this one. It is what it is. YOu get one Vancouverite laughing and trying to be little the 'big' aspect, and then you get another laughing at the 'smoke' aspect. Quite typical in my opinion, you just can't win and take it as it is. Though, Sukh and Van-idiotbird arn't your typical level headed forumers.

lol

Put them together and you might actually have a fully formed idea!

Im not really a fan of Guvernment anymore. It can be alright, but being packed in like cattle with inadequate air conditioning isn't my idea of fun.

Yeah thats the problem with these clubs, but I just stay in the smaller rooms which tend to have more breathing space. The actual Guvernment room is sufficating.

That's a nice name. I love "the big smog", sounds exotic and can cause lung disease.
You guys are so lucky to have the name "THE BIG SMOG" :applause:

I'm really beginning to wonder why people think Torontonians are so arrogant? I'm only seeing this from Vancouver people.

Learn some today!

Reflecting Puritanical Roots

Looking at a map of Toronto in the late 19th century, you can see an urban area reflecting its puritanical roots in the conservative layout. It also lived up to its nickname of "The Big Smoke" with a New World version of industrial London: a busy, polluting harbour, factory chimneys spewing untreated soot into the air, coal-black railways chugging away and the obligatory slums as well as mansions, Victorian colleges and churches. The nickname took on a tragic significance in 1904 when a fire destroyed more than 100 buildings in the downtown core

So while Toronto was being coined "The Big Smoke" Vancouver was nothing more than a soggy wet trading outpost. Show some respect.

I used to live at Queen & John. Now, I never go to clubs...not my scene (well, at least the big ones that play bad music and have line-ups). But it sure was one of the more livelier spots after midnight that I have ever experienced.

The clubs located in that small section of downtown cram about 60,000 club-goers every thur-sat nights. It's too many....add in a Skydome full of sports fans (or concert fans)...and all the restaurant and theatre crowds, and it's just too over-crowded in a negative way. You can't walk on the sidewalks, and there are just too many kids...add booze, drugs, an aggressive, high-energy environment...and attitudes get wacky.

I much prefer the more mature environments than Clubland...Yorkville, Little Italy, West Queen West, Spadina/Kensington, the Beach, St Lawrence, Boystown...even Midtown has some nice spots. Guvernment is interesting...if anything, it's massive size can draw some interesting live acts...but still too line-up clubby. The Docks is equally HUGE, but it has a more interesting, laid back vibe...sort of a beach party meets drive-in. Imagine...a real downtown drive-in...I think that's great!! (mind you, it will disappear once the Portlands get into serious development).






KGB

Vancouver is a pretty little town in a wonderful location. Its very urban, but unlike Tor/Mon not urbane. Vancouver is a really nice city but it is also an also-ran. It will never compare to Tor/Mon for their vitalily and cosmopolitan flair.


BTW........I lived my first 26 years in Ontario including a year and a half in Toronto and I never heard it called the "Big Smoke".......only T.O. or {my fav} Hogtown.

Its funny how people insisit on referring to Vancouver as a little town. Obviously trying to push peoples buttons. 2 million a little town? Do you know what Urbane is? Urbane is having world knowledge and culture, and I dont know if you've noticed but everyone who lives in Vancouver is from some other part of the world, at least downtown, which is where I live and all I see. There are also a lot of very wealthy people in this city, who probably travel alot, therefore making them urbane.
26yrs in Ontario...thats the answer to your bitterness towards Van right there. I was wondering what your problem was.

Then why is it that everytime i'm in Vancouver the only types of people I see downtown are whites and Asians? Nothing else. Ever. Not very diverse IMO.

I also find it funny how everything in Vancouver is labelled 'urban'. Almost like you have to remind yourselves your 'urban'. Urban Fare, Urban Eyes, Urban Cafe, etc etc. You rarely see that in Montreal or Toronto. Perhaps because they already know they are?

With respect to this small town thing. I think that has more to do with the fact that Vancouver just doesn't 'feel' like a big city. If your coming in from the airport to downtown for the first time, you don't travel on a highway, you don't see any industrial buildings or office buildings, you just drive along Granville and see big houses and retail shops. There isn't that senses of a 'big' city. There's no big highways or big buildings or factories or other made made things that make a city look and feel big.

A drive into Calgary feels more like a bigger city than Vancouver. That's the impression I always get.

There's no way that Vancouver can have the amount of diversity as Toronto because Vancouver didn't experience it's population boom until after the post 1967 change in immigration laws which has caused the boom in asian populations in Canada. The diversity in european ethnicities varies a lot in Toronto because of this pre-1967 boom in the 50's, and the huge in-migration from the rest of Canada since the 70s, and the huge immigration boom from asia and the carribean countries over the last 2-3 decades.

Its funny how people insisit on referring to Vancouver as a little town. Obviously trying to push peoples buttons. 2 million a little town? Do you know what Urbane is? Urbane is having world knowledge and culture, and I dont know if you've noticed but everyone who lives in Vancouver is from some other part of the world, at least downtown, which is where I live and all I see. There are also a lot of very wealthy people in this city, who probably travel alot, therefore making them urbane.
26yrs in Ontario...thats the answer to your bitterness towards Van right there. I was wondering what your problem was.

I actually fall down laughing when it comes to this. You know how it is, when "some" Torontonians themselves are coming on the short end/getting whooped in debates, and their city is looking bad, to put down Another city that is smaller than theirs, they bring out the "little town" immature rants, even though they are rediculous. I've seen it so many times on this forum against many other other cities as well. The problem with ssguy, he hasnt gotten laid in Vancouver, or ever.

Hate to bust it to you man but Vancouver does not have the most extensive network of parks and Stanely Park doesn't make up for it. The park is on a penisula far away from the average home, thus it is not a 10 minute walk to it.


Stanley Park itself is a mega park, which is accessibly to many many residents living downtown, especially around west end, by walking, cycling etc.. May not take ten minutes, add on another 10-15 mins, thats still fine.

416 Freeways were the biggest mistakes that never happend, and their will never be freeways because of by laws put in by smart people( thank god). Yes they make a city feel larger. Van is basically a city/model, that any other city/planners can look to, see for themselves a big city doesnt need freeways.

The only thing that caught me by surprise when I visited Vancouver for the first time, back in December, was how small it was.

With regards to "'little town' immature rants", I'd say Vancouver is definitely small-town. Heck, a lot of Torontonians refer to Toronto as a 'town'. What they actually mean is 'city' though. You'd think that would be obvious.

Compare...

http://laplace.physics.ubc.ca/People/matt/Images/vancouver-yvr-january-05/100-0024_IMG.JPG

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/547/250706r1mile.jpg

Arriving at YVR you don't get the impression you just landed in a big city.

Yeah I understand where your comming from there. It does feel smaller by far when your comming from the airport into downtown, but that has to do with the City of Vancouver and their anti-densification policies on keeping quaint little neighbourhoods, which makes Vancouver the livable and high ranking city that it is. If you notice along that stretch between the airport and downtown though, most of those homes are priced in the millions, as its the west side of the city and there would never be re-development there, ever. The thing with tourists is that you don't get off the beaten path and see outside of Vancouver itself, which is where the GVA begins to feel like a lot larger city. If you take hwy 1 from Vancouver through Burnaby and out to Surrey you get a sense of how large the metro area is, and you see a lot more high-rise districts.

here's no way that Vancouver can have the amount of diversity as Toronto because Vancouver didn't experience it's population boom until after the post 1967 change in immigration laws which has caused the boom in asian populations in Canada.

Vancouver is pretty much as diverse as Toronto. You sorta get blinded by all the asians, but there are good numbers of hispanics & obviously sikhs here too. I take the bus in Surrey everyday to go to work...its usually all sikhs, in turbans & saris...the whole bus. You'd think your in india. Besides those I see lots of euorpeans & aussies around as well.

Some better pics of Vancouver when comming in by air...

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/surrey/2004/syh2004_354.jpg

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/surrey/2004/syh2004_285.jpg

The urban area is pretty large...much bigger than what would be considered a small town. Do you notice how far away downtown Vancouver is in that pic?

Zoom in a bit and you can see it..

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/surrey/2004/syh2004_500.jpg

Yeah I understand where your comming from there. It does feel smaller by far when your comming from the airport into downtown, but that has to do with the City of Vancouver and their anti-densification policies on keeping quaint little neighbourhoods,..

Vancouver is pretty much as diverse as Toronto. You sorta get blinded by all the asians, but there are good numbers of hispanics & obviously sikhs here too. I take the bus in Surrey everyday to go to work...its usually all sikhs, in turbans & saris...the whole bus. You'd think your in india. Besides those I see lots of euorpeans & aussies around as well.

Well, obviously it does feel smaller. You are comparing connected areas, you are comparing 2.6 million to 7.5-8 million. When you fly to Toronto from the US, you fly over Hamilton and can see all the way to Oshawa, all connected CMAs along Lake Ontario.

Vancouver City is livable, I don't think the ratings are referring to its low density burbs (it seems counter intuitive). One of the reasons which make Vancity livable is its density. I could be wrong, as maybe it relates to the Metro?

'.. as pretty diverse as Toronto' ?? Ok. Then Toronto's surrondings are pretty much as mountianous as Vancouver.

http://offline.area3.net/wartime/img/toronto.jpg

That stuff in the upper right is the start of the ravine system in Toronto.

.. as pretty diverse as Toronto' ?? Ok. Then Toronto's surrondings are pretty much as mountianous as Vancouver.

Vancouver is well known as being one of the most ethnically diverse places in the Canada, probably a very close second after Toronto. There are so many cultures and colours of people here, I'm suprised you would think its so far off from that of TO.

Correct me if Im wrong, but isnt Toronto the most diverse city in the world?

^ I've heard them boast that, as Canada as a nation is one of the most diverse Countries in the world, with our most diverse cities being Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. Toronto and Vancouver are the top two.

Taken from the COV website.

The City of Vancouver is made up of people from diverse cultures and backgrounds. In the 1980 document, Goals For Vancouver, released by the Vancouver Planning Commission, it was recognized that “Vancouver’s ethnic diversity is one of the primary contributions to the unique character of the city.” Since the mid-1980’s, the city’s population has grown even more diverse, partly due to inter-provincial migration, and partly from international immigration.

The city is the second largest in Canada with a high percentage of visible minority and immigrant populations. In 2001, 49% of the city’s total population was of visible minority background, compared to 44.8% in 1996.

In 2001, 45.9% of the total population were immigrants(defined as people who were not born in Canada). Vancouver has 14% of BC’s population, but it has 24.5% of BC’s total immigrants.

The three most numerous groups of recent immigrants are of Chinese, Filipino and Indian origin. The classification of “recent immigrants” refers to those who immigrated in the last five years.

The people of Vancouver also speak a multitude of languages. Based on the 2001 Census figures, 49.4% (261,365) of the city’s population identified English as their mother tongue, while 50.6% (267,545) identified a language other than English as their mother tongue. Other than English, other languages spoken at home include: Chinese (26.6 % of total), Punjabi (2.7%), Tagalog (Filipino, 2.4%), Vietnamese (2.2%), French (1.7%), and Spanish (1.5%).

There seems to be a misunderstanding about diversity and a high percentage of foreign born. Although Vancouver might have a high foreign-born population, it is not as diverse since the majority of those foreign born all come from a small number of countries. Many cities make that mistake. Truly diverse cities are place like New York, London, Toronto. Even Istambul, Singapore, and a few others are diverse. Vancouver I would say is the average of the average diverse Canadian city, like Mississauga.

The people of Vancouver also speak a multitude of languages. Based on the 2001 Census figures, 49.4% (261,365) of the city’s population identified English as their mother tongue, while 50.6% (267,545) identified a language other than English as their mother tongue. Other than English, other languages spoken at home include: Chinese (26.6 % of total), Punjabi (2.7%), Tagalog (Filipino, 2.4%), Vietnamese (2.2%), French (1.7%), and Spanish (1.5%).

More than half the people who identified a foreign language as their mother tongue were Chinese??? Thats... not really diverse at all.

Proof that the total number of visible minorities or the total number of people who speak foreign languages does not mean much if you do not know the breakdown of those numbers.

Yep, high % of foreign borns doesn't mean diversity. It can, but it doesn't have to.

No offence, but Vancouver's diversity is almost laughable when comparing it to Toronto or Montreal's.
From my recent experience in Vancouver it seemed people are chinese, or white or of east asian decent. If having 3 dominant types of people/cultures is considered diversity, Vancouver, you win in that category.
This link was sent to me recently...

http://www.discovervancouver.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16518

please, any Vancouverite... please tell me this is a joke!

Vancouver is well known as being one of the most ethnically diverse places in the Canada, probably a very close second after Toronto. There are so many cultures and colours of people here, I'm suprised you would think its so far off from that of TO.

Lets not forget that Vancouver, city proper of 600 odd thousand, being half chinese, is what people boast about. Vancouver is more like NYC, where the primarily minority group is dominated by a single group latinos (something like 30 odd %), although there are very small pockets of other groups. Albeit, a very small overall %.

And back to the foreign born, with the tiny city proper in Vancity, Toronto has even higher pockets of concentration of Chinese than Vancity.

Toronto: Peaks of tract at 68-79%

http://www.brocku.ca/maplibrary/Atlas2001/Toronto/chinese.pdf

Vancity: Peaks of tract at 50-65%

http://www.brocku.ca/maplibrary/Atlas2001/Vancouver/chinese.pdf

Non Canadian Citzens

Toronto: Peaks 30-45%
http://www.brocku.ca/maplibrary/Atlas2001/Toronto/citizenship.pdf


Vancity: Max tracts 29-43%

http://www.brocku.ca/maplibrary/Atlas2001/Vancouver/notcanadian.pdf

http://www.discovervancouver.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16518

please, any Vancouverite... please tell me this is a joke!


lol!

So. . . . I gues i was right.

Beauties.

Between 1981 and 1996, Ontario and British Columbia had the larger proportion of immigrants, the rest of Canada had a much smaller percent. Betweem 1991 and 1996 Toronto and Vancouver 6 out of ten immigrants went there. Those two cities are, and will probably likely always be the most attractive for immigrants. Montreal is a distant third.

http://www.discovervancouver.com/fo...?TOPIC_ID=16518

that's amusing...

cosmopolitan? not quite there yet.

^ I've heard them boast that, as Canada as a nation is one of the most diverse Countries in the world, with our most diverse cities being Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. Toronto and Vancouver are the top two.

Well, last month's Wallpaper Magazine (UK) couple page write up on Toronto also refers to the UN Ranking of Toronto being the most diverse. Though the original links on the city of Toronto website to the UN are now dead. Meaning, its no longer a claim to fame.

You always got to include the 'Vancouver' in everything eh? When people refer to diverse, they refer to London, NYC, and yes, Toronto. You never really hear of Vancouver except for the a little tibits here and there, just like how some surverys here and there label Toronto as most livable (like Fortune Mag 2003).

From my recent experience in Vancouver it seemed people are chinese, or white or of east asian decent. If having 3 dominant types of people/cultures is considered diversity, Vancouver, you win in that category.

There are many other people besides chinese, east indian, and white. The chinese that you see are actually anywhere from korean, japanese, philipino, vietmense...east indians are anywhere from sikh, hindu, sri lankin, to figian. Whites are from all over many from poland, romania, russia, czech, swiss, and austrailian are some of the big ones you see besides the obvious. Then there are a lot of spanish people too from mexico, brazil, honruras, and an every increasing number of people from kenya.

There is definatly diversity in Vancouver.

Taken from the City of Toronto website:


Chinese 10.6 per cent
South Asian 10.3 per cent
Black at 8.3 per cent
Filipino at 3.5 per cent

Compared to Vancouvers:

Chinese 26.6 %
Punjabi 2.7%
Filipino, 2.4%
Vietnamese 2.2%
French 1.7%
Spanish 1.5%


So basically. Of both cities roughly 50% of the population is non-white.

In Toronto that 50% is made up of 4 main groups.
In Vancouver that 50% is made up of 6 main groups.

Now tell me where the diversity is greater.

Now before you go screaming how that poll doesn't represent all the other races in Toronto. Neither does Vancouver's so you can't base diversity on the major groups.

Those #'s just show that Vancouver only has one major visible minority. Chinese. French & Spanish are not visible minorities BTW.

It's not hard to figure out. Just walk around downtown Vancouver and you only see two groups. White & Asian. Nothing wrong with that but that's not diversity. Ethic groups in Vancouver don't mix together for some odd reason. They completely stick to themselves whereas in Toronto, it's the reverse. All groups intermix.

^ Whatever man, I live downtown and I see black, east indian and spanish everywhere too. They are not the majority but definatly present.

The Vancouver poll includes french because it differs slightly from Toronto's in that it is representing languages other than english spoken in homes, while toronto's is simply based on race. So in essence Vancouver's minority population could be under-represented here, as many claim they speak english in their home.

Now tell me where the diversity is greater.

is that supposed to imply that it could be Vancouver? Come on... granted on a Canada scale (hence a world scale), Vancouver is diverse but it's certainly not as diverse as Toronto. And it's true - from numbers and personal observations dowtown Van is generally yuppie white and chinese, Richmond is chinese, Surrey is south asian, North Van is white, etc. Does a Parkdale, Kensington, St. James Town or Bloordale (in terms of diversity) exist in Van? Perhaps at a fraction of the scale - commercial drive? Honestly I don't know, I'm asking.

My limited experience in Vancouver... Everyone was either white or asian with the odd brown person here and there. I got to see 4 black people and about 7-8 brown people the entire week I was there. Less diversity than I'd get in Toronto the minute I walk out my door. For those that haven't been to T.O., that's NOT an exaduration but an every day fact. Diverse like Toronto it isn't. Diverse by international standards, perhaps.

Downtown Vancouver can be broken up into three easily identifiable areas.
Yaletown/False Creek, Coal Harbour & the West End.

Westcoast can correct if i'm wrong, but Yaletown/False Creek = Yuppie White/Asian. Coal Harbour = Yuppie Asian/White. West End = White

Am I wrong here? I don't think so. Fact is, downtown Vancouver has gotten so expensive it's become a neighbourhood of yuppies. For those few who can afford to live downtown are pushed out to the West End where the only diversity is between white straights or white gays.

Come on. I've been to Vancouver more than enough times now to know what it's about.

Taken from the City of Toronto website:


Chinese 10.6 per cent
South Asian 10.3 per cent
Black at 8.3 per cent
Filipino at 3.5 per cent

Compared to Vancouvers:

Chinese 26.6 %
Punjabi 2.7%
Filipino, 2.4%
Vietnamese 2.2%
French 1.7%
Spanish 1.5%


So basically. Of both cities roughly 50% of the population is non-white.

In Toronto that 50% is made up of 4 main groups.
In Vancouver that 50% is made up of 6 main groups.

Now tell me where the diversity is greater.

Now before you go screaming how that poll doesn't represent all the other races in Toronto. Neither does Vancouver's so you can't base diversity on the major groups.

Well, no reason to scream because it is dealing with apples an oranges here. Let's take a look:

Chinese 26.6 %
Punjabi 2.7%
Filipino, 2.4%
Vietnamese 2.2%
French 1.7%
Spanish 1.5%

Ok, this is painfully specific to the point where it doesn't even list Indians, for example, but goes even further and specifies Punjabi. Very good then. Might as well have broken the Chinese into regions and groups... Because that would be more diverse.

Now let's take a look at Toronto:

Chinese 10.6 per cent
South Asian 10.3 per cent
Black at 8.3 per cent
Filipino at 3.5 per cent

What do you think 'South Asian' is? Well, I'll give you a hint--there's no South Asian nation. South Asians are people from India (including Punjabi from the Vancouver list), Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Bhutan, and the Maldives. So, these all could have been listed separately, but they were grouped together. What do you think 'Black' is, by the way? Do you think there is a nation that is called 'Black?' Just as is the case with South Asians, this is an incredibly broad group of people coming from all over the place, like the Caribbean, Africa, US, or who have been born in Canada. They could be split into groups (or even subgroups like the Vancouver stat does in the one case), but they aren't. As a result, this 6 against 4 major groups is utter nonsense, as we're comparing very specific groupings with very broad ones.

Well, no reason to scream because it is dealing with apples an oranges here. Let's take a look:

Chinese 26.6 %
Punjabi 2.7%
Filipino, 2.4%
Vietnamese 2.2%
French 1.7%
Spanish 1.5%

Ok, this is painfully specific to the point where it doesn't even list Indians, for example, but goes even further and specifies Punjabi. Very good then. Might as well have broken the Chinese into regions and groups... Because that would be more diverse.

Now let's take a look at Toronto:

Chinese 10.6 per cent
South Asian 10.3 per cent
Black at 8.3 per cent
Filipino at 3.5 per cent

What do you think 'South Asian' is? Well, I'll give you a hint--there's no South Asian nation. South Asians are people from India (including Punjabi from the Vancouver list), Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Bhutan, and the Maldives. So, these all could have been listed separately, but they were grouped together. What do you think 'Black' is, by the way? Do you think there is a nation that is called 'Black?' Just as is the case with South Asians, this is an incredibly broad group of people coming from all over the place, like the Caribbean, Africa, US, or who have been born in Canada. They could be split into groups (or even subgroups like the Vancouver stat does in the one case), but they aren't. As a result, this 6 against 4 major groups is utter nonsense, as we're comparing very specific groupings with very broad ones.


What??! Are you trying to tell me my passports to Black and South Asia are invalid??

Compared to Vancouvers:

Chinese 26.6 %
Punjabi 2.7%
Filipino, 2.4%
Vietnamese 2.2%
French 1.7%
Spanish 1.5%

.

LOL, you want to do me a favour and extrapolate that in actual numbers. Geez, 2.6% X what, 650K people, versus 2.5% X 2.5 million is a big difference. Great, selectivity by Vancouver forumers at its grandest. A village of 2 people could have the highest composition of Inuit outside of Canada if you want to see it that way.

No one saying that it isn't diverse, just not as diverse as you claim it is.

Vancouver is comparable to Mississauga in diversity. Where the bulk of groups are asians and south asians.

Those assumptions are generally right, but it can be broken down into more than just asian, as there are so many types of asians. To not identify them as individual races and cultures is just plain ignorent. Downtown also has a lot of spanish people, my building alone is filled with them. I know of towers in the west-end that have a high proportion of russians/czechs with accent and all. Thats a distinct culture from your typical "white".

Outside of Downtown, Fraser St & South Main have a high number of philipino & punjabi residents. The punjabi village is centered on main & 49th and you will see nothing but brown people in that area. So you can't really say Vancouver is all asian and white just by downtown observations.

The commercial drive area has a very good mix, theres a small jamaican community there, as well as a very large first nations population.

Theres mix, If you havent been here in a few years thats probably why your perception is off. 5 years ago you would only see brown, white asian, and some spanish. But it's changed a lot in a short time, i'm noticing black people everywhere I look now...a lot I think are from Toronto because they are sportin blue jays caps and don't look straight from Kenya.

So basically have a closer look and you will see there are many colours and cultures of ppl walking around Vancouver than asian & white. Two very broad categories to begin with.

LOL, you want to do me a favour and extrapolate that in actual numbers. Geez, 2.6% X what, 650K people, versus 2.5% X 2.5 million is a big difference. Great, selectivity by Vancouver forumers at its grandest. A village of 2 people could have the highest composition of Inuit outside of Canada if you want to see it that way.

Ok settle down there. All i'm saying is that Vancouver is the 2nd highest in Canada in terms of diversity. Its represented by per-capita percentages because that is the only logical way of comparing! If a town had only 1 person from every race, for a total of x number of ppl. That would technically make it the most diverse. This is getting out of hand though, you guys are stereotyping Vancouver a bit here when you dont actually live day to day in this city and see the faces, so take it from someone who lives here.

Well, what I am saying is that you are comparing a small city proper base to a city proper that is 3-4 times more population, and a land mass of 5-6 times.

And obviously Vancity has pockets of most ethnicities, so does mississauga and the rest of Canadian cities. Doesn't put them on the same level.

Ok settle down there. All i'm saying is that Vancouver is the 2nd highest in Canada in terms of diversity. Its represented by per-capita percentages because that is the only logical way of comparing! If a town had only 1 person from every race, for a total of x number of ppl. That would technically make it the most diverse. This is getting out of hand though, you guys are stereotyping Vancouver a bit here when you dont actually live day to day in this city and see the faces, so take it from someone who lives here.

Well, I have no problems with claiming Vancouver is diverse; I'm not sure if it is 2nd, I'm not sure what the Montreal numbers are. However, previously you've claimed that Vancouver is, in fact, more diverse:


In Toronto that 50% is made up of 4 main groups.
In Vancouver that 50% is made up of 6 main groups.

Now tell me where the diversity is greater.

Obviously, this makes no sense.

^ I was using that as an example of how you can't base diversity on just the major groups, in which case a small handfull make up 50% of each respective city's total population.

As for Montreal, this is from the 2001 census. A very high percentage of their population is White.

Definitions and notes Total responses Single responses Multiple responses
number
Montréal
Total population 3,380,645

Canadian 1,885,085
French 900,485
Italian 224,460
Irish 161,235
English 134,115
Scottish 94,705
Jewish 80,390
Haitian 69,945
Chinese 57,655
Greek 55,865
German 53,850
Québécois 44,965
Lebanese 43,740
North American Indian 42,655
Portuguese 41,050
Polish 38,615
Spanish 35,245
East Indian 32,370
Vietnamese 25,605
Arab, not included elsewhere 21,545
Russian 20,495
Ukrainian 20,050
Filipino 18,985
Belgian 18,695
Armenian 18,445
Romanian 17,315
Moroccan 16,130
American (USA) 15,520

^ I was using that as an example of how you can't base diversity on just the major groups, in which case a small handfull make up 50% of each respective city's total population.

But you didn't prove that at all... Indeed, for Vancouver, this is pretty much true:

Chinese 26.6 %
Punjabi 2.7%
Filipino, 2.4%
Vietnamese 2.2%
French 1.7%
Spanish 1.5%

All of these are their own nations, except Punjabi, which is even a subset of India. For Toronto:

Chinese 10.6 per cent
South Asian 10.3 per cent
Black at 8.3 per cent
Filipino at 3.5 per cent

As explained, South Asians and Blacks are extremely broad sets, and include people from many different countries. This is just not the case for the Vancouver groupings.