I have lived in New York City all of my life, but as I have accepted a new job as a chief engineer for BNSF railway, I must relocate to the Tacoma area of Washington state. I will be operating out of the Tideflat yards. My move will take place next week but I have not determined a final locale. My options are Fife, Puyallup, Auburn, Kent and finally Tacoma itself. Any input in the following cities would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Are you sure your ready to make the jump from New York City to Tacoma. I mean, moving to Tacoma must be pretty intimidating, especially to someone from NYC. ;)

I'll leave it to the pierce county guys to answer your question. I know Tacoma sometimes gets a bad rep, but it is improving bigtime, and their are some really nice neighborhoods there. Like around Stadium High School(yes, the one in the movie Ten Things I hate About You.)

Well, it is actually very intimidating as New York City has been my base. Moving to an area of which I nothing will definitely throw me off kilter.

Downtown Tacoma would be your best bet imo, especially coming from New York. Downtown Tacoma has really improved with new lofts and restaurants. Tacoma is your best bet.

GVNY I sent you a private message. Check it out.

That must have come as quite a shock, GVNY! :pet:

But then maybe it's a promotion? :bowtie:

Alas I can't give you any advice on your new part of the world, but I surely wish you well! :wave:

I will be operating out of the Tideflat yards. My move will take place next week but I have not determined a final locale. My options are Fife, Puyallup, Auburn, Kent and finally Tacoma itself. Any input in the following cities would be much appreciated. Thank you.

- Fife isn't much of a residential area

- Puyallup is blowing up & has the best inventory of homes in all price ranges in the Greater South Puget Sound area. The South Hill area & Canyon Rd. area are one of the fastest growing areas in the state

- Auburn & Kent are further way from Tacoma but closer to Seattle. As you get closer to Seattle & the Eastside (Bellevue, Redmond, Kirkland, Issaquah), the higher the prices in areas with nicer newer housing stock. The west ridge of Kent near Federal Way & Des Moines is more affordable but is laden with older housing stock. Affordable Puget Sound views can be found in some part around here.

- Federal Way is more suburban & has newer housing stock. It is very easy to access the Port area via 509 from the Twin Lakes area of Federal Way & NE Tacoma. Some parts of FW are nicer than others.

- Tacoma is a total mixed bag. It's downtown has just been reborn & is an infant. It's downtown residential scene is just starting & years away from being anything special if anything at all. There are new units next to the Glass Museum & others in planning. The more trendy Tacoma neighborhoods are NW of Downtown. Proctor District, Old Tacoma, areas around the University of Puget Sound, Point Defiance Park, & the Narrows are the most popular. There are a lot of nice older homes throughout the area, many have been restored & upgraded. Access to the Port area is easy via Ruston Way which turns into I-705 & 509 (the port of Tacoma freeway).

- Fircrest is a nice bedroom community near Tacoma with older homes

- University Place has a mixed bag of housing stock & is a popular Tacoma suburb

- Steilacoom is one of the oldest communities in Washington & has great Puget Sound views

- Lakewood is real mixed bag with evertything from slums to multimillion dollar mansions.

- Gig Harbor is Tacoma's wealthy suburb with newer housing stock. It is tough to get to since it is located across the Tacoma Narrows. They are building a second bridge span but the bridge will become a toll bridge when it opens.

Give me more information of what you are looking for & I can give you more specific information on certain cities or neighborhoods. I guess you could consider me an real estate "expert" for the South Sound area. I work for John L. Scott Real Estate (http://johnlscott.com) - Puyallup Canyon Road out of our Olympia/Lacey office. We are also building a new office in Fife.

Downtown Tacoma:

(the new residential units are located above the building with the silver cone along the waterway. The cable stayed bridge at the bottom is the terminus of 509, the Port of Tacoma freeway)

http://www.aerolistphoto.com/images/wa/tacoma/2004/WATAh040302D_098.jpg

NW Tacoma looking into downtown:


(tide lands at top of pic. University of Puget Sound is located under & to the left of the 'h' in "..graphers." Proctor District is the district slighlty down & to the left from UPS. Old Tacoma is above & to the left of Proctor near those patches of trees by the bay)

http://www.aerolistphoto.com/images/wa/tacoma/2003/WATAh030721D_076.jpg

NW Tacoma looking N. towards Point Defiance (huge park with zoo, aquariam. Tacoma Narrows on left)

http://www.aerolistphoto.com/images/wa/tacoma/2003/WATAh030721D_093.jpg

Tacoma Narrows Bridge

http://www.aerolistphoto.com/images/wa/tacoma/2003/WATAh030721D_082.jpg

Here are area property values (average & median) I crunched back in Feb. (basically add a few thousand dollars for today's prices)

King County

Mercer Island: $961,149, $675,000

Downtown, Central District (S. of ship canal, N. of I-90): $738,616, $480,000

Queen Anne-Magnolia, Seattle: $614,650, $535,000

Eastside (Bellevue, Redmond, Kirkland, Issaquah, Woodinville): $500,016, $419,000

Vashon Island: $433,391, $369,500

North Seattle (Seattle north of ship canal): $411,422, $374,950

NW King (Shoreline, Kenmore, LFP): $358,207, $305,000

West Seattle: $350,433, $306,000

South Seattle (S. of I-90, E. of Duwamish R.): $331,230, $283,230

East Valley/East Hill (Renton, Kent, Auburn, Maple Valley): $292,424, $270,523

SW King (Burien, Tukwila, Des Moines, Federal Way, part of Kent): $266,475, $243,500



Pierce County

Peninsula Pierce County (Gig Harbor, Purdy, Key P.): $318,376, $270,000

Browns Point, NE Tacoma: $288,985, $260,000

Lake Tapps/Buckley: $278,672, $251,950

NW Tacoma: $278,099, $235,250

University Place/Fircrest: $275,478, $255,000

Steilacoom: $274,207, $195,000

Edgewood/Fife: $268,756, $252,475

Puyallup/Sumner: $244,001, $232,650

South Hill: $232,602, $220,950

DuPont: $231,070, $223,875

Lakewood: $228,410, $195,000

SE Pierce (Roy, Orting, Eatonville): $216,034, $199,975

Parkland/Spanaway: $194,556, $189,950

Anderson Island/Ketron Island: $186,135, $140,000

C. Tacoma: $164,311, $158,500

S. Tacoma: $157,071, $155,000



Thurston County

Olympia/Lacey/Tumwater: $232,233, $205,000

Rochester/Tenino/Grand Mound: $181,221, $169,000

Yelm/Rainier: $174,306, $163,900


Kitsap County

Bainbridge Island: $537,539, $485,000

N. Kitsap (Poulsbo, Kingston): $276,032, $246,275

S. Kitsap (Port Orchard, Olalla): $223,036, $200,000

C. Kitsap (Bremerton, Silverdale): $215,678, $193,000

Wow, thanks to everyone. I am looking at a house in Old Tacoma. The owner of the home says the area is very nice, railroad and water views and is very pedestrian friendly. Hopefully I can seal the deal.

Old Tacoma is great. You can easily access Ruston Way & be on the tide flats in minutes. There are great restaurants & walking along the Commencement Bay waterfront that begins in the Old Tacoma area & goes to the NW along the bay. Proctor District isn't too far away & it along with Old Tacoma provides plenty of shopping & food.

Welcome the the Northwest GVNY! I think Sounder gave you all the info you need.

Does this mean you'll change your name to GVTac? ;)

BTW if you like nice yuppie places with great water views (and a bit of a slower pace) you might want to consider Gig Harbor.

BTW if you like nice yuppie places with great water views (and a bit of a slower pace) you might want to consider Gig Harbor.

That won't be necessary. I secured my home in Old Tacoma just now.

And a new name.....OTWA?

Tacoma is very much different from NYC. Try living in Downtown Seattle if you want to feel closest to home.

I am ready to experience a new place.

So you'll be living in a early 20th century home, or there abouts? Sorta like this?:

http://www.bbonline.com/wa/chinaberry/house2.jpg
or kinda esque to that? Old town Tacoma is pretty darn nice.


Glad to have ya in Washington state.

How did you guess? Are there lots of early twentieth century homes in the area?

My wife & I actually liked Tacoma, which received an audible gasp from our Seattle relatives. But there are nice attractive turn of the century homes north of downtown & within a short distance of a beautiful & massive park. Plus Tacoma's downtown, with the street car is rather nice.

I begin my cross country move in 2 days.

^Welcome, I hope you have a good trip.

What in the hell is that shit in the water?!?!?!

http://www.aerolistphoto.com/images/wa/tacoma/2003/WATAh030721D_076.jpg

Looks like silt. I wonder if it's supposed to do that or if it's poor management of runoff by farmers, etc.

Puyallup River silt. The Puyallup is a major undamed river system draining much of the Mt. Rainier area. The silt is natural & would be forming a delta in Commencement Bay if it weren't for us re-dredging every now & then.

I'm sorry but that's gross...

^ It is just little tiny pieces of Mt. Rainier, the Cascade foothills, & the valley floor. I'd swim in that silty river before I'd ever swim in Foss Waterway which appears clear in the above pic.

Silt is just dirt, frankly. It's not like it's industrial waste, or something.

^ It is just little tiny pieces of Mt. Rainier, the Cascade foothills, & the valley floor. I'd swim in that silty river before I'd ever swim in Foss Waterway which appears clear in the above pic.

It just look dirty that's all.

Cool.

I am in the passes of Montana on the Empire Builder, on my way to Tacoma right now. Just to let everyone know the whats going on.

Tacoma is a great place your going to love it here in Washington.

With great pleasure, everything is settled in my new home! Moving trucks arrived here last night and the men placed my belongings inside and helped me arrange some furniture. I have direct view of a beautiful family used waterfront with children happily playing and parents holding hands. I have a great view of a very busy railroad crossing, and the white noise of the freight trains send me right to sleep. Finally right outside, a large mountain looms beautifully and I assume it is Mount Rainier. I am very pleased with how everything has turned out. The weather was somewhat nice when I arrived, all of my neighbors are very welcoming and nice and there are very many parks that I can enjoy nearby. But you cannot beat the railroad access. I think I will be right at home in Old Tacoma, Washington.

That's just wonderful to hear, GVNY, I'm so happy for you! :) Glad things went so smoothly.
Now I'm hoping the next thing you're going to report is that there's a grocery store within walking distance, that the area is ideal for bicycling, and that you've got convenient, useful public transit nearby. :okay:

Here is a pic from nearby. There is a 2 mile long series of parks, trails, & restuarnts along the Commencement Bay waterfront from Old Town to Point Defiance Park.

http://www.nortac.com/images/rustwy9.JPG

Here is an artilce about the neighborhood from 2002:

Old Tacoma (http://www.nwsource.com/travel/scr/tf_story.cfm?st=25742)

http://www.nwsource.com/images/outdoors/story_photos/tacoma3_04112002.gif

Well the area is just fantastic for bicycling and there is a bus stop right down the street. It is a short 5 minute "commute" to the D' Street yard and yes there is a grocery store nearby.

Work for BNSF railroad is going great as right now I take intermodal trains over to Spokane via Stevens pass. Lovely scenery around Stevens. That grade is one tough bitch. I was really surprised to find out the large building near Tacoma's business disctrict was once a rail station. That is too bad Tacoma let Amtrak move to a shack in the yard. How could that be allowed to happen? Almost as bad as Pennsylvania Station, but at least you guys kept the building upright.

Washington contains very nice cities within its boundaries. I absolutely love Tacoma's creative youth, was surprised how large Seattle is and I love Spokane in general. I certainly will be happy right.

I should buy a camera and take photos of the area.

Good idea, we would love to see your experiences through images.

Glad to hear everything is going well, and of course we'd love to see some pics! What is that transition like anyways? Moving from a mega city with 8+ million, to a small city with 200,000, was it a Shock? Relaxing?

BTW, I found these pics of what I presume is your neck of the woods, they are from some film locations website:
http://washington.pacificnorthwestmovies.com/10ThingsIHateAboutYou/things06.jpg
http://washington.pacificnorthwestmovies.com/10ThingsIHateAboutYou/things07.jpg
http://washington.pacificnorthwestmovies.com/10ThingsIHateAboutYou/things08.jpg

It may be my area, but my house is closer to the tracks and water.

Well the area is just fantastic for bicycling and there is a bus stop right down the street. It is a short 5 minute "commute" to the D' Street yard and yes there is a grocery store nearby.

Well, all the basic criteria are met, then! :) That's just wonderful! :banana:

I was really surprised to find out the large building near Tacoma's business disctrict was once a rail station. That is too bad Tacoma let Amtrak move to a shack in the yard. How could that be allowed to happen? Almost as bad as Pennsylvania Station, but at least you guys kept the building upright.

Well, I have found an answer to my question. I was shocked to find the real answer, as I had previously thought Amtrak found the station too expensive to keep in operation. This is just plain stupidity.

When the city was constructing Interstate 705 into downtown, they discovered that they miscalculated how far the old concourse jutting into their path. Can you guess by how much? Take a wild stab.

http://www.trainweb.org/rshs/Tacoma79-1.jpg


1 foot. Apparently, this was enough for the city to raze the concourse, close the station and relocate all rail traffic passengers to the shack at D' Street Yard.

Check out the inside of old Union Station (now federal court house):

http://www.unionstationrotunda.org/files/zoom/zoom_lightsarch.jpg

http://www.unionstationrotunda.org/files/zoom/zoom_window.jpg

http://www.unionstationrotunda.org/files/zoom/zoom_viewfromfloor.jpg

^^OMG. I didn't know that. That's so retarded...

^ Actually it wasn't that bad of idea, eyeing the future. If high speed rail transit or commuter rail ever becomes a big deal in this area, the primary passenger rail line would likely not pass Union Station but would pass the current Amtrak station by the Dome. The Union Station building was beautifully restored & preserved & put to another good use so it isn't really a bad deal at all.

^that's true, maybe that was the whole idea behind making that decision. Too bad it hasn't already taken off.

^ Actually it wasn't that bad of idea, eyeing the future. If high speed rail transit or commuter rail ever becomes a big deal in this area, the primary passenger rail line would likely not pass Union Station but would pass the current Amtrak station by the Dome. The Union Station building was beautifully restored & preserved & put to another good use so it isn't really a bad deal at all.


I respectfully disagree. The station could have been saved, rehabilitated and allowed to serve other uses while still accepting passengers. If the station were still functioning as a terminus,there would be no doubt it would be the gateway to Tacoma for a high speed commuter rail.

^maybe that's what was needed for high-speed commuter rail to take off sooner.

What high speed rail are you guys referring to? There is no high speed rail through Tacoma, and whether is was at Union Station or the shack at the yard, it would make no difference.

^I'm referrering to commuter rail, subways, light rail, or commuter trains like the sounder. I was thinking of what they could have done or could still do with union station if those modes of transportations meeting up @ union station. That's what I was thinkng of. sort of like a Grand Central. Although I doubt that would ever happen.

^ But Union Station isn't in a location to do that; the current location is however. It is on the Amtrak/main trunk line, end of the light rail line, end of the Sounder line, & in line with the potential Lakewood, Du-Pont Sounder line. A nice station could be constructred right there.

^^ Highspeed rail is a NW pipe dream that has been talked about for years. Out here, the major population centers are relatively spaced apart & for the most part linear so one backbone highspeed line could be something special. It is a long way from happening if ever. Governors & Sec. of States in the past have toyed with the idea & the Prince of Spain even came to Olympia to pimp Spanish rail technology.

I respectfully disagree. The station could have been saved, rehabilitated and allowed to serve other uses while still accepting passengers. If the station were still functioning as a terminus,there would be no doubt it would be the gateway to Tacoma for a high speed commuter rail.

It isn't lined up with the prospective Sounder route; the current site is however. The grand plan is to extend commuter rail up Nalley Valley to Tacoma Mall, South Tacoma, Lakewood, & Dupont. From there it could hook back up to the BNSF trunk line to potentially serve Lacey or East Olympia & other destinations south.

Sounder, the only reason that Sounder trains are not lined up for a Union Station terminus, is because the station trackage was removed even before the idea of a commuter rail system was though up. If the trackage still existed, Sound transit and the light rail system would have been planned accordingly for terminus at U.S. There is no doubt about it.

But what this discussion stems from, is the fact that the concourse was closed due to a miscalculation of 1 foot. There should have been no reason to close the station and Tacoma should have fought to keep it open.

But now, as we have the new station and the trackage to support, it really doesn't make any sense to reopen US as a railroad terminus. But if it was still in operation as a station, the grand scheme could still have been put into effect. The Nalley Valley line used to run just north of the station into the mainline.

Sounder, the only reason that Sounder trains are not lined up for a Union Station terminus, is because the station trackage was removed even before the idea of a commuter rail system was though up. If the trackage still existed, Sound transit and the light rail system would have been planned accordingly for terminus at U.S. There is no doubt about it.

That makes no sense since the prospective line would not pass union station. The idea is to have passenger rail to S. Tacoma & Lakewood via Nalley Valley, not along the current route along the waterfront & it wouldn't follow the old spur; they would have to acquire a new right away near the Tacoma Dome. The idea of a rail line via this route has been around since as early as the 1970's if not earlier. The crossroads of rail in Tacoma present & future is about a mile south of Union Station. The light rail terminates there, eventually the Sounder will be extended, & the LeMay Museum will finally built & Tacoma Dome remodeled (hopefully landing the NHL), & the area blows up. The year the Sonics played there in 1995, the district there was popping. It could happen again.

The station was saved; it is a beautiful federal court house. A beautiful station could be constructed in the future somewhere near the present site.

Well, I don't know where the prospective line is located, so I am just going by my knowledge of the area. All I am saying, if the station were still in operation, Sounder, the light rail and high speed rail, all could have successfully terminated at US. That is fact no one can argue.

http://img161.echo.cx/img161/3833/tacoma5rd.png

Light rails can handle tough grades and tight curves, so a rail line into US from the Prairie Line (Left red line) would be no problem. Sounder could enter Union Station from the BNSF mainline (Right red line) with no problem, or a separate track could be added to reach the station.

The line isn't meant to terminate so a terminus at Union Station wouldn't work for a regional commuter rail line that is designed to breifly stop at Tacoma & then head on south to Lakewood or east to Puyallup. Draw a straight line from Nalley Valley to the current station for a general idea of where a line would run.

From (un)Sound Transit's website:

http://www.soundtransit.org/images/projects/commuterrail/Tac-LakeMap.jpg

http://www.soundtransit.org/projects/co/pierce/sounder/sounder_tac-lake.asp

Sound Transit will expand Sounder commuter rail service to Lakewood with new stations in South Tacoma and Lakewood. The expanded service will operate along a new 1.2 mile track extension in Tacoma, from the Tacoma Dome Station to the M Street overpass at South Tacoma Way, where it will connect to the existing Lakeview Subdivision tracks and continue south 7 miles to Lakewood.

DuPont is a rapidly growing business & residential community home to Intel, State Farm, & the new HQs of Venture Bank. Because it is blocked off from the rest of Pierce County by Ft. Lewis, this business center will be starving for a Sounder link from Lakewood. Just below DuPont, the line would rejoin the BNSF trunk line to serve the 225,000 people of Thurston County at Centennial Station near Lacey & potentially other destinations south.

This is not directed to you Sounder, but that plan is absolute bullshit unless Sound Transit has some magic tricks in their sleeve. First of all, you can't go straight through from Nalley Valley to the Tacoma Dome on rail, and if anybody tried, there would be severe stiff grades. That is why the prairie line goes way north of US to gain enough space to have a relatively okay grade. Not only that, the area is blocked my hundreds of industries and developments. I would just love to see how they are going to do this.

But now that I see the plan, I agree with you that the station is not at a good placement for this route as it is not meant to terminate at US. It still is a shame they took away this grand symbol of Tacoma from the passenger railroads.

This is not directed to you Sounder, but that plan is absolute bullshit unless Sound Transit has some magic tricks in their sleeve. First of all, you can't go straight through from Nalley Valley to the Tacoma Dome on rail, and if anybody tried, there would be severe stiff grades.

I am not sure if they completed the engineering yet (Sound Transit site says it will be completed Apr. '05) but I expect them to connect the two via an above grade viaduct/dike gradually sloped to negate the slope of the hill.


It still is a shame they took away this grand symbol of Tacoma from the passenger railroads.

At least they preserved & renovated the building & put to another good use. Other great stations have met much worse fates.

I moved from ny to tacoma and trust me u wanna live in tacoma because everywhere else is nice but the pace of life is too slow

I made Tacoma my home, thank you.


And I have been researching this project on the commuter rail, and I find out that this plan is called the Pt. Defiance bypass route. Apparently it had nothing to do with commuter rail and everything to do with bypassing Nelson Bennet tunnel. The single tracked line is heavily trafficked and the single track doesn't help it. So they are moving trains out of the tunnel and through the prairie line. It would reduce time by 6 minutes and improve freight and passenger service drastically. It is only now that commuter rail came into focus, with Sounder trains coming into Lakewood.