I thought it'd be nice to see (not just hear) what people think would be an improvement to an area. No doubt I'll be the only one who posts... :laugh:

Anyway, here is a quick modification I made to the city, adding a couple more open spaces...

Before
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/709/3775city_centre_toward_spinningfields.jpg

After
http://www.eb.cx/img/ssc/improvements1.jpg

Anyone got any other changes to the city they'd like to share?

What I'd do first, if given the freedom of the city (and how mighty sweet that'd be.. ) would be to tear down that vile thing opposite st peters sq (that is its name aint it? outside the town hall extension next to tramlines? Yes well the one on the far left opposite (and below) the white office block. There I would create an open space to compliment Earlybirds small plaza outside the library. At the far end of this space would be a prominant 'landmark' building. It would cheekily soar to 70m, getting away with its dominating presence besides the town hall due to the fact its miles better than the concrete beast that was there before it, hehehe.

There I would create an open space to compliment Earlybirds small plaza outside the library.

I think that would be a good idea, just think, driving up Oxford St and all of a sudden it just opens up into a huge green space with cafes spilling out on to it and people meeting up etc, its a good one that.

I would blow up Elizabeth House with twice as much TNT as needed, to give it a painful end. I'd create a green space on that land and pedestrainise the one way road the goes bwteen EH and the tram stop. Give the Odeon building a new use too, maybe partly demolish it, the plain bit.

Although it would be extremely difficult, I'd make an underground tunnel for the metrolink that would take it from the Midland Hotel to Mosely Street, because the tram stop and the bus lane next to it make St Peters Square a dangerous obstacle course.

I'd rip up the concrete beside the Town Hall extension and that stupid circular building thing and make one huge green space.

:) I would turn the front of the Town Hall into grass and get rid of those ridiculous cobbles, I would make Deansgate One Way idealy southbound and have a nice boulevard(sic) right down the centre of it lined with mature trees, I'd encourage big companies to advertise in neon lights all over the city centre making it feel vibrant and exiting like Times Square, I'd dramatically change the design of our trams(what a joke, have you seen Nottinghams they look wicked) er....anything else I think of I'll post :)

Yes shiney trams would be nice... shinier tramlines would be a start mind

You're allowed to edit pics to show what you'd do you know... :tongue:

Anyway, here's stage two... I've cleared an area for a nice landmark building to go up:

http://www.eb.cx/img/ssc/improvements2.jpg

That looks nice.

more trees, there's no excuse for not having more trees!

If the block of buildings just below and to the right of the space occupied by Elisabeth House were demolished as well (although admittedly they're hardly eyesores), then that has the potential to be a fantastic open space which would really give Central Library, the Town Hall and Town Hall extension the room they deserve. Add a couple of open-air bars/cafes and that would be a square to be proud of, even with the intrusion of the Metrolink lines.

Maybe then the underwhelming buildings between the newly-demolished Eagle Star House and St Peter's Square would be a candidate for demolition to be replaced by a landmark building.

Keep the cobbles, leave Albert Square well alone.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/rolybling/picplacecopy.jpg

er...not sure how to do this photo uploading bizniz...if it works you should see a picture of Piccadilly with Albany Tower in foreground and Greengate in the background and a couple of bits and bobs that I think will make the whole scene look better, If it doesnt work then...bollocks

cool it worked :)

Haha, that's great. But that Greengate design is scrapped now! :yes:

bummer, still...i'd love to see a similar skyline in a couple of years or so, greengate may be scrapped but I believe some sort of tower will be erected on that site?

That is a WOW factor!!!!

The bottom end of Deansgate could become an Italian piazza, that building that masks the old railway yard is fantastic but too narrow for practical purposes so bulldoze the other side of Deansgate then widen the narrow building and create a colonaded arcade for outdoor cafes sheltered from the rain. Create a similar building on the opposite side of a considerably widened Deansgate and pedestrianise it at this point to create a square that is the epicentre of a museum, hotel and conference district.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/IsaacNewell/venice.jpg

More sunshine - less red brick.

You're allowed to edit pics to show what you'd do you know... Anyway, here's stage two... I've cleared an area for a nice landmark building to go up:

EB. I'm not clever enough to do this but could you add Beetham, GN, Leftbank, and CJC to show where we're already heading?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/rolybling/picplacecopy.jpg

er...not sure how to do this photo uploading bizniz...if it works you should see a picture of Piccadilly with Albany Tower in foreground and Greengate in the background and a couple of bits and bobs that I think will make the whole scene look better, If it doesnt work then...bollocks


Like the pic except for the Coke sign.

BTW is that building with Manchester written on it, going to be curved?

Anyway, about improving. I'd deffo get rid of No1 Piccy and improve the gardens. Also delete the Arndale Tower from the skyline..perhaps have with something a lot better in it's place. I'd love one of the streets around the Northern Quarter(or there abouts) be given a roof a la Galleria in Milan. reckon something on VIctorian lines would look lovely on top the excellent Victorian buildings.

Also, what about a monorail? weaving in and out of the tall buildings. The vew of the City Centre would be luverly from up there. Imagine coming to work in Town on monorail, high up in the sky.

Apart from the much needed green space to be added to the city centre, because of lack of space or because land is to expensive,why cant the council,plant more trees at the sides of roads,,whenever i've been in Europe,most big towns and cities over there have tree lined streets,

Also i think Manchester needs more fountains, perfect place for a stunning fountain would be right in front of G-Mex or outsde the new Next entrance to the Arndale.

I think our city is doing most things right now, we learnt such a lot through the Commonwealth Games,but we need to build on that,,,we need to showcase our gem buildings more,,it saddens me evertime i go past the fire station on London Rd,,,what a corker of a building that is...
And i know this is a small detail,but i would like to see our major hotels have multi national flags on the front of there buildings , it just looks great, and inviting to overseas guests that stop there,,

I would demolish all of the buildings that surround Lincoln Square. This would give a clear run from the front of the Town Hall to Deansgate, bounded on the left (if you`re exiting the Town Hall) by the remaining half of LLoyd St., which has some worthy Victorian Architechture, on the right by what would be the 'no loger Hidden Gem Church and the Deansgate side would be fronted by John Rylands Library and the new RBS building. The area would be grassed with surrounding flower beds and a wide central footpath.

Unfortunately I fear that this will not happen because in the Deansgate part of this scheme a new Starbucks is about to be open. Obviously this essential development could not be jeopardised!

They are opening a second branch of Starbucks in Manchester?
Wasn't one enough?

Only one Starbucks in Manchester ? bit small town that. I prefer Cafe Nero been in the one on Cross Street and the one on Oxford Road but not the one in that disgusting trailer trash shop called Primark.

Which leads me to the point. Improve the city, run Primark out of town, it just screams POVERTY

Nah, Primark and Market Street is essential for keeping the mingers and scallies in one place. Keep it where it is I say.

I'd come up with a scheme to encourage local businesses to establish themselves in the city if I were in charge. One idea would be to have a sliding scales of rents or 'business presence tax' in the city centre with bigger companies and chains paying far higher rents. So for example, an outlet of Subway or JD Wetherspoons would pay a hefty wad whereas a student or local firm seeking a foothold in the city would pay next to zero - and in fact might even be part-subsidised by the tax revenues received from the giants and chains.

On a 'wish that will never happen level', I'd like to try and find the money from somewhere to sink the trams beneath Picadilly and GMEX and Picadilly to Victoria. Just imagine the possibilities for an area like St Peter's Sq without trams..

They are opening a second branch of Starbucks in Manchester?
Wasn't one enough?

Come On. Wake up and smell the coffee. 7 so far +1 in Centurian House, Deansgate, +1 on Quay Street, + 2 more in Arndale = 11 in city centre.

Note the sarcastic tone of Northy's post.

I agree. Terrible stuff. Fuck knows why people actually buy owt from that place. Starbucks, shite name n'all.

One for all you with the New York fixation, why don't we give our local motorways names, in New York they have the Jackie Robinson Parkway named after the baseball player, Martin Luther King Parkway etc. etc..

There must be some good historical locals or national characters with Manchester connections like Lloyd George, Robert Peel, Frederich Engels.

I name the M602 the L.S.Lowry Expressway.

Whats wrong with the Mancunian Way?
Double edged. I like it!
M60 could be renamed - perhaps to differentiate if from your bog standard M roads, (it being an orbital).
Voodoo Ray way.
Great idea about St Peters Sq.
As much as I try, I do not view that as a square at all.
Shame as the views of the Midland, Library T/H extension is fantastic.
Unless you're grabbing a tram from there you don't get the oppurtunity to take all this in.

Note the sarcastic tone of Northy's post.

Sorry. Fell for the wind-up!

M60 could be renamed - perhaps to differentiate if from your bog standard M roads, (it being an orbital).
Voodoo Ray way.

Not quite what I had in mind but the tune does have that driving round the urban wasteland in circles feel about it, I would try it out if I could drive.

We should cover the Berlin Wall in this. Takes a while to load, but truly wonderful bit of technology. The music is lovely and floaty too but with dirty drums. Anyway, check it out, something like this would be perfect for things like the Berlin wall.

http://www.lightspacecorp.com/videos/Interactive_Surfaces_mov.htm

The Detroit Escalator Company makes some nice noise

Here is my impossible and flawed masterplan for Piccadilly Gardens.

Before: http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/manchester/p14.htm

After:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/caw123/Untitled-1.jpg

Ok. Now firstly, the Metrolink line would be sunk on Aytoun Street and would travel below ground to a stop beneath Piccadilly Plaza for the Alty/Eccles line and would re-emerge in front of the Arndale for the Bury line. The Jarvis Hotel would be viciously flattened by 10 times as much TNT as would be necessary, big family event, bring the sprogs. On it's site a big horrible sloping blue bus interchange would go. The crap Parker Street bus stations and metro line can then be grassed over to extend the gardens. The crappy office block would never be built and would be grassed over, and the grass would also extend towards Primark.
Plus a 200m plus big dirty beast of a tower would rise on the car park between the courts and Westminster House, clustering with the Crown Building and Inacity Eastgate Tower.

Ravage this,

Christ Caw, I had the very same image of a wavy glass bus/tram interchange on the hotel site. But with some cool roofing stretching over to the Metrostops. Total mindpiss there my friend.

Looks alot better just by removing Jarvis, good effort. Its a shame how much the gardens have shrunk over the years though.

poor, poor jarvis, why do people hate you so?
Where is the major south of city bus terminus going insted then?

I tend to side with frosty on Jarvis. Sure the hotel is tired and needs a facelift, but surely the worst part of the plaza is the David Lloyd 'lightbox' extension. It's awful and is something I'd have removed before either 1 PG or Jarvis.

it's moving off topic I know, but what happened to the office conversion of redundant upper floors at Lewis's. Moving that forward would be my top priority for 'improving' the gardens.

Bringing people and jobs to the gardens is the best way to improve it long term. I'm finding it difficult to reconcile the 'lets spend millions blowing holes in the city' method of improvement. Surely economic renaissance lies at the heart of making the city great again - and that means jobs and offices.

There is plenty of green space on the periphery on town (Peel park, Lower Irwell Valley, Whitworth Park etc), it's just underused/overlook/inaccessible at present. I think the answer to true improvement lies in opening up and integrating these spaces into the city. The only way we can do this is with money - and money comes from jobs and people.

So, in fear of sounding like a McDonalds advert:

Convert upper floors of Lewis's into offices - create good new jobs - attract new people to the city - build new apartment building for them to live in - creating more new jobs - new shops/restaurants to serve new workers and residents - more new jobs and people with money looking for somewhere to live - more new apartments with increasingly better build quality and public areas - urban space from Piccadilly Gardens to start of Medlock Valley now fully regenerated - open up currently overlooked green space - more tourists - more jobs - ugly building reclad/upgraded/replaced - more hotels - wealth spreads into NEM area - Manchester hailed as a true 21st century world class city.

See, this improving the city lark is easy ...... and I've not even had to demolish a single building and sow grass seed on it's grave yet ;)

I can see where you 2 are coming from about the Jarvis,and wanting it kept,,,,but i have to disagree,it as got to be one of the most ugliest building's ever to grace our city,looking at it from Portland St is terrible,with it's fat dirty arse overhanging the podium,aaarrrggh Where's my bazooka :)

Yeh, you half expect a giant piece of shit to come out at any moment.

Where is the major south of city bus terminus going insted then?

You what?

You what?
Sorry, my mistake, I must have skipped that line.

Bringing people and jobs to the gardens is the best way to improve it long term. I'm finding it difficult to reconcile the 'lets spend millions blowing holes in the city' method of improvement. Surely economic renaissance lies at the heart of making the city great again - and that means jobs and offices.

There's also the argument that investment decisions and the ability to attract and retain the best people... in addition to engendering a sense of civic pride is dependent to a large degree on good quality design and an uplifting environment.

Hence the requirement to do away with the worst bits of the built environment and always insist on quality architecture and urban design. Sure, we need plenty of available office space, that's a given, but I think a more holistic appraoch is needed. Good design is fundamental to successful cities - NOT an add on - and this is why we should not accept the present state of Piccadilly Gardens and one of its largest (and worst) component parts in Piccadilly Plaza. Its not a great piece of architecture and taken in context a very poor piece of urban design. Same goes for 1 Picc Gardens and a few others that form the backdrop to that particular bit of open space.

I don't disagree with you sleepy.

But I do suspect we could have an interesting debate on the definition of quality and the characteristics of good quality design.

To me 'quality urban design' centres around function, price and fitness for purpose. Aesthetic judgements obviously contribute to any assessment of quality I make, but they are not paramount.

Lets take citycube as an example - I think this is a good refurbishment and would hold it up as quality urban design. I suspect I'm probably alone on this forum in this belief, but it provides decent affordable office space close to shops and major public transport nodes as well as providing ample parking. Without it Ticketmaster would probably be in Cardiff and Manchester would be denied a couple of hundred jobs (granted, they are not the best paid jobs in the world - but hey, it beats the dole queue). It even has commercial units at ground level - which has to be a good thing, it's just a shame they are both currently unlet. The building has been successfully redesigned, that is the reason the office space has been let/sold and Manchester benefits from this success to the tune of £Xm each year.

We often hear people throwing words like sustainable into debates. But what exactly does this mean? For me it's not really about gimmicky solar cells on the roof or grey water recycling. I think Citycube sits up near the top of the sustainable tree - it's the ultimate in recycling. Demolishing this to build something that conforms to the current fashions is not the sustainable option, especially if we decide to do the same thing again 30 years from now. And I would apply the same argument to the Plaza. Sure it's not perfect and if we were starting with a blank sheet, it's probably not what we would build. But it's certainly workable and to me it looks as if the work Bruntwood are doing will re-equip the plaza for continued success in the broadband age.

I mean isn't civic pride is about working with what we have? about making the city a richer place both economically and socially, about respecting what previous generation have left us and leaving something better for the next generation? I love Manchester and I love it's flaws. I may even love it because of it's flaws rather than despite them - I mean who could love the flawless Celebration, USA?

Anyway I’ll shut up now as I’m rambling. I’ve already deleted a couple of paragraphs of nonsense but I’d be happy to discuss further over a couple of beers if you fancy it.

Hooray for tates. If I could stick him in the oven for a while with some onions and add him to a roast lamb dinner, I would.

I don't like many of Bruntwood's refurb jobs but you'd be a fool to think they're titheads. The refurbs they've done have been exactly that - refurbishments. They haven't been fancy tarting up. I don't consider things like The Pinnacle to be a reclad, it's practically a new build. But anyway, Bruntwood provide decent office accomodation at a realistic price and for that we should be greatful. If it weren't for them, well in part, I doubt we'd be seeing the boom we're seeing right now.

Hooray for tates. If I could stick him in the oven for a while with some onions and add him to a roast lamb dinner, I would.



Very clever. OK its nearly 2 and I've had a few cheeky ones but its still quite funny.

There's also the argument that investment decisions and the ability to attract and retain the best people... in addition to engendering a sense of civic pride is dependent to a large degree on good quality design and an uplifting environment.

Hence the requirement to do away with the worst bits of the built environment and always insist on quality architecture and urban design.

Trouble is, you want it yesterday, and that is not feasible. You can bang on as much as you like about the Plaza and the Arndale etc., but you can not dismantle them tomorrow for obvious economic reasons.

Why do you not concentrate a little more on what can be developed first in the empty space we have? Then maybe we can talk about "out of context buildings", because, although they might be out of context, at the moment there is nothing to replace them. And without them, on the blow-it-up model, serious economic efects would have to be felt.

You are way too romantic. What is is what is, live with it until we are capable of removing it. Short and medium term developments like Picc1 at times are necessary, it doesn´t mean they will stay there forever.

Don't be so bloody spoilt, we need to get investment in in the first place, thus to gain more investment. It's a slow process.

That's a tempting offer degen. I've got a bit of a headache this morning and curling up an going to sleep in a nice warm oven sounds pretty appealing right now.

Look at all the room when you remove the plaza, the buses and put the tram underground, in this case a glass covered trench (that glass you can walk on.) Unfortunately I forgot about the other ramp so that would take some room away. You could put the hotel and the offices in a chunky 300ft block.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/IsaacNewell/newpicc.jpg

Hooray for tates. If I could stick him in the oven for a while with some onions and add him to a roast lamb dinner, I would.
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/taters.php

I would go around manchester with a can of spraypaint, putting a large red cross on the buildings I wanted demolished.

Then, I would phone up the demolition crew and tell them to get busy.

One for all you with the New York fixation, why don't we give our local motorways names, in New York they have the Jackie Robinson Parkway named after the baseball player, Martin Luther King Parkway etc. etc..

There must be some good historical locals or national characters with Manchester connections like Lloyd George, Robert Peel, Frederich Engels.

I name the M602 the L.S.Lowry Expressway.

I like this idea. Over here in Oz this has been already done. Here in Perth we have the Graham Farmer Freeway, Mitchell Fwy, Kwinana Fwy.
M602 should be the 'John Wilkinson Fwy' being 'Mr Salford' he his.

Good improvements can also be much simpler - like jet washing those bloody fucking awful stinking bins on market street.

On a good note, I notice that the flags on the Arndale side of Church Street have been cleaned and about time too. Looks much better.

DEL

Looking at that pic of the metal tree just been installed in Piccadilly,as made me think of how Piccadilly gardens could easily be improved,,,,
First of all, the much hated Berlin Wall has to go,then what i would do ,is plant trees and shrubs up and down the edge of all the paths in the gardens,this would put a barrier up so people dont trample across the grass as a short cut.
I would keep the bit where the coffee shop is,but something should be placed on the roof of it ,some modern art sculpture or something,,,