Is it just me that hates City Lofts? They look ugly from every angle except looking straight on at the front... which hardly anyone will get to see. And the smaller one just looks rubbish, if they were both the same height it wouldn't be so bad.

I don't think they belong in such a good location. It's a waste.

I couldnt agree more. they look small and insignificant. and yeah i hate this obcession of having a small tower congealed to its bigger tower. (this i see is how the central station towers development will look with a 25 and 20 floor tower joined together or at least appearing to look that way). two identical sized towers would at least provide symetry on the eye. personally i am not a big fan of 20 odd floor towers (which are often watered down proposals from original 38 floorish spectacular models). i would much rather leave these sites undeveloped until such time that we have a new forward thinking council planning committee and a more toothless-firmly put in its place English Heritage.

sadly, spot on!

I like City Lofts as I think that it has quite elegant cladding that looks good in its waterside location. However, it proves that 21 storeys is just not tall enough to rate the 'tall building' title in such a low lying location.

What we term a skyscraper varies from city to city but in Liverpool, I think it is now anything over 25 storeys. Buildings in the 10 to 25 storey range seem to please nobody as they are too tall to respect prevailing building heights but too small to have that soaring quality of the true skyscraper.

Indeed. I like City Lofts, like most on here, and it's currently the best building in Princes Dock, though mainly due to lack of worthy competition. I would've loved to have seen another 10 floors added. Even another 5 would've been way better. City Lofts' stumpyness lets it down in my opinion and this weakness will be exposed when Alex tops out.

Used to think this was very average, but now it's a grower. Maybe cos I've seen the new renders for the Central Station tower which are pure plop.

Yeah CL is one of the best developments downtown, but as many have said many times on this thread, it needed more floors!!

On the other hand if you all remember all those `15 storey - tower blocks` of council housing (Some of which still overlook `Sefton Park` which are well liked because of the views by the elderly residents and also more than most, well maintained(?)) I think we could agree that developments like `City Lofts` is progress.

I wonder if we will ever see `Council towers` on the water front?

Everton brow was of course previously `thronging` with high risers but of unfortunate quality.

I do like the City Lofts development, and agree with many on this forum that the tall tower should have been higher. What started out as a 10 storey tower doubled in height ,so we are heading in the right direction.

My 1000th post and i dedicate it to the Liverpool thread, although i have nothing constructive to say apart from City lofts is better than i expected

My 1000th post and i dedicate it to the Liverpool thread, although i have nothing constructive to say apart from City lofts is better than i expected

Congratulations westi, :applause: try and be more constructive on your 2000 post :blahblah: :D :lol:

City Lofts and AFL Architects have agreed to put on a number of loft tours of this development for Downtown Week. As we can tell by those pics Dave put up here, it is worth coming on one of them for the views over the rest of the city alone!

Details of contacts etc will be available soon, but if any of you are interested in coming along then flag your interest up on herer for now?

There are also a number of other walks and talks planned for Downtown Week which I will put up on the designated thread.

A few shots from Tuesday:

http://www.**************************/clmay001.jpg

http://www.**************************/clmay002.jpg

http://www.**************************/clmay003.jpg

http://www.**************************/clmay004.jpg

http://www.**************************/clmay005.jpg

Great pics as usual Dave. I think that second one shows the scale of the building better than most, especially in comparison to the Royal Liver building. :)

The date for the loft tour around City Lofts has now been settled

it is Tuesday 13th at 2pm meet on site at carillions site offices. Steve Unwin will accompany the tour along with Carillion site agent


0151*231 6200
steven.unwin@afl-uk.com
www.afl-uk.com


AFL are also opening their office to visitors for Downtown Week just call half hour before you want to go along

Tony, ask Terry Gray (Clerk of Works) or his boss Neil if they'll allow you on the roof. There's usually a ladder on the 20th floor to gain access to the roof, but they've taken it away :bash:

"Liverpool, City of Contrasts" :)

http://www.**************************/cityloftsmay.jpg

Looks like some spaz came down the hill too fast and crashed their bike through the roof. Is Shaw Street isn't it?

Looks like some spaz came down the hill too fast and crashed their bike through the roof. Is Shaw Street isn't it?
Probably a Quad Bike. If the Council put a bounty of £5 a wheel to eradicate the vermin, the problem would be sorted overnight.

Yep, Shaw Street.

Took a few more pics of City lofts and Malmaison yesterday. The pace seems to have slowed on Malmaison in terms of the external construction, really looking forward to seeing the completed product.

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/6503/15hp1.jpg

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/2689/23hn2.jpg

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/3503/30ql2.jpg

"Liverpool, City of Contrasts" :)

http://www.**************************/cityloftsmay.jpg

There is something of a Benidorm about the place....... :)

At least the `Liver Building(s)` faced both ways....always.

. The pace seems to have slowed on Malmaison in terms of the external construction, really looking forward to seeing the completed product.

Excellent pics Tom, although the structural panels appear slow, your pics do show that a lot of external work is being carried out. Gantrys for the power stagings are now in place, so expect cladding to the concrete panels to start soon together with windows.

I had a look yesterday and the insulation and brackets for the cladding panels are going on. They have even started on the glazing. Three storeys still to go on the main structure.

Looks like the finishing touches are being added

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/7422/august023nk2.jpg

Is it just me or does this one feel like it has taken an eternity to complete? I must admit it has turned out better than I was expecting, classy development.

Is it just me or does this one feel like it has taken an eternity to complete? I must admit it has turned out better than I was expecting, classy development.
This is June 2004. I think 2 years 2 months from this to what we have now is rather impressive :)

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/3994/cljune2005pv3.jpg

they windows had to be changed aswell due to size so that has added a few months on

Doc, you may be right, I'm just thinking EMPIRE State etc buit in around 16 hours or so. Still think in a whole year not much has happened on this project, remember this was topped out around 12 months ago.

Doc, you may be right, I'm just thinking EMPIRE State etc buit in around 16 hours or so. Still think in a whole year not much has happened on this project, remember this was topped out around 12 months ago.

The Empire State building took 13 months to build and 18 months as a project as they had to demolish the `Old New York Waldorf` hotel first which in itself was an impresive building.

It was a massive gamble at the time to build the ESB due to the `Wall Street` crash and for some time it was also known as the `Empty State Building` as only 51 floors (sic) where let prior to the opening day, taking 20 years to fully let......apparently at it`s peak of construction 5 floors were added in one week!

Crowds gathered daily to watch.

Excellent program on Sky Three just the other evening about the ESB and they seem to be featuring a fair number of programs on New York at the moment that I think are worth watching.

2 from me.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a366/robinsonworld/HPIM0690.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a366/robinsonworld/HPIM0692.jpg

I think it's pretty good building, not the most flash, and seems rather, err. monochrome.

in still shudder evry time i see that car park... sorry woody!

I'm with woody, re; the PD MSCP!

good to have you back Tone but cant agree with your sentiments r.e the car park... what a waste!!!

LoL! Thanks Bustcapl... fair enough!


You have to remember that there was no real choice over putting any extra cover, apartments etc around the basic car park because the retention of the French walls thoroughly limited the site!

All they could put up was the basic skeleton of an MSCP

They could've at least clad the thing with something better than concrete and recycled goalposts. Why not see what the Malmaison lot have going spare when they've finished? :)

They could've at least clad the thing with something better than concrete and recycled goalposts. Why not see what the Malmaison lot have going spare when they've finished? :)


i cant believe that i am in agreement with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought we also agreed that Accy was a pleb and should be strung up by his nuts? :?

of course but that goes without saying does it not?

Here are both sides of City Lofts phase 2.


http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4993/srhalftideeh8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1624/half1zj2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


from: http://www.infinite3d.co.uk/

Thanks for the new pic Doug. It seems such a shame we can't have a proper modern apartment block there, of the sort they build in London Docklands, or more so in the water-fronting areas of cities like Copenhagen. The perfect location for something bright and striking, with lots of glass and steel.

I cannot see the point of this style - it would be better to produce completely faithful replicas of lost buildings in a "converted" form (pretending they are old converted warehouses) than this red brick nonsense. The irregular windows attempt to be subversive but end up looking random. I think the planners, if they accept this, need to sort those windows out.

Still, it occupies a site that could do with use, it has balconies facing the dock (which I very much welcome) and all helps bulk out the area. As people keep saying, not every building that goes up can be "iconic". It's none of it going to land Liverpool on the map as a modern European city that is going places - modern architecture seems to be part of the ingredient in that, and Liverpool seems too scared to do modern; but maybe that was a bit of a unrealistic dream given the fuckwits running Liverpool currently.

lets all be sick, really whats the point in it, its just sooooo small

I think the scale is fine Westi, there is no intrinsic value in greater scale everywhere - taller buildings can in the future go behind it. To me it's the appearance that is so dismal, rather than its size. I could live with a storey or two lower if the design was right (and probably a bit longer, possibly two blocks instead of one), although I certainly can't see why taller would help in that location.

It does occupy a derelict site, but its another drab example of new stuff having to stay 'in keeping' to placate the heritage mafia.

It does occupy a derelict site, but its another drab example of new stuff having to stay 'in keeping' to placate the heritage mafia.

Thats the only thing in its favour........it does fill a hole>(

I am underwelmed by this drab design, is it in keeping with its grand neighbour, yes when compared to the "Barrett Box`s" across the dock. But this must surly go down as another wasted opportunity to make a statement proclaiming, this is the... NEW LIVERPOOL. A brilliant location that just begged for a tower next to City Lofts tower.
The planners should hang their heads in SHAME.

Thanks Doug for posting this render. ( I think )

It does occupy a derelict site, but its another drab example of new stuff having to stay 'in keeping' to placate the heritage mafia.

I sometimes wonder if on this site we use the term 'heritage mafia' in too loose a fashion. I can't believe that anyone who cares about 'heritage' would be in favour of this building - its design is the worst of all worlds! Perhaps the problem lies in the calibre of the people on LCC planning committee and their lack of awareness of how to develop this kind of space so that it has a range of architectural styles and different types of accomodation? Recreating rectangular shaped apartment blocks around rectangular shaped docks with lots of dead space between the buildings and on the water is not a good look. However, I'm sure this practice helps developers to maximise their profits - how many 4 storey houses would you be able to build in that space, not many.

The planning committee of LCC desparately needs to visit other cities that have made better use of their dockscape to learn a few lessons about the importance of VARIETY of shape, texture and colour. This apartment block, the blocks behind the original Waterloo warehouse, and nearly the whole of the southern docks serve as an example of how not to do it.

This type of development is so lazy. It is not an example of an heritage inspired agenda. It's an example of developers getting away with murder as a result of the incompetency of LCC's planning committee.

Jesus, Mary, Zeus, all the saints, Allah, Hera, Gaia, the Magdalena, and the Buddha, too -please save us from the consequences of British amateurism.

that is the basic problem L8 when you take a heritage point on some of these issues, it is not your take that is influencing policy, but a bunch of fools who are desperate4ly obsessed with an utterly warped notion of what is appropriate heritage concerns... they basically believe that their awful taste, as in the preference for short and red brick, is world beating sympatico with the glories of the past!

maybe we do use the term too loosely, but then again, as largely conservation minded folk who love our city we should be able to understand what we mean by this short hand, as applied to the current situation in Liverpool?...i.e they are indeed freaks!

City Lofts, Phase I... nice to see people have started to move in.

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/9708/citylofts06111mo9.jpg

City Lofts, Phase II site (to the right)

http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/2753/citylofts06112ox8.jpg

Thats all folks... well until tomorrow... still got PSDA, Kings Dock etc left! Phew!

Red, great set of pics here and on the other threads, thanks.

13th Nov 2006

City Lofts:

http://static.flickr.com/109/296455922_810a523abd.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/296455922/)

Looks very lonely all on its own.

Phase 2, can't see many pics being posted about this one, I think the overall response was underwhelmed!!


http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/4952/cityloftphase21vu9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/9827/cityloftphase22ac3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

phase 2? are we looking at a second tower here? how many floors?

9 and it is horrid

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1624/half1zj2.jpg

phase 2? are we looking at a second tower here? how many floors?

Its a 9 storey slab block, render posted today. Drab and very unexciting :ohno:

Dear god, i think i've lost all hope :ohno:

Well I'm sure Ruth Kelly would love it..

9 and it is horrid

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1624/half1zj2.jpg

We turn down top class like Brunswick Quay on the waterfront, but build an eyesore like City Lofts Phase II... Get some people with some vision on the Planning Committee, this is a fucking joke. Leave this site empty until there is some better proposal, can't get worse!!! :ohno: :nuts:

When this icon was approved, the planners decided they would advise the architects to decide what colour brick to use - lovely.

Another case of sacred building syndrome. Nothing can be built anywhere near a historic building that is not as uninteresting as humanely possible.

But CL1 was red at first, maybe they will do it the same colours as CL1

But CL1 was red at first, maybe they will do it the same colours as CL1

I was an optimist once too Westy.:ohno:

The main problem for me is the deadness of the landscape. LCC planning committee should visit Portsmouth where they have more successfully created an urban community on the waterfront. Warehouses work well to an extent but if that's the only look being (badly) referenced in the context of bland waterspace, dying sycamores, etc. then the overall look is, in a word, shite. Variety of shape and texture. LIFE. Isn't it obvious? Liverpool's docks weren't built as urban spaces - warehouses were not built so that one day they could be turned into flats. The space needs to be re-envisoned to avoid making the same error as above.

htthttp://img56.imageshack.us/img56/2216/pc120089rn3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)p://

This is what our waterfront should look like................

Any ideas of were this is ??????????

Perth

Perth

No its not in Scotland:lol: .........OK yes its Perth WA, taken off a fast ferry on the Swan river heading down to Freemantle

10/10 Craigie

Well in Wooders. That's the kinda of piccie that puts our Liverpool problems in perspective. Not long ago Perth was a one-horse country town in the middle of nowhere, not in the same league, not to mind division as Liverpool.

And now... :ohno:

Quite proud of me self ta

In terms of growth it puts Liverpool to shame, but imo the skyline is 'any city', not very out standing or recognizable, Craigie Mann clearly has a super brain.

On the same theme:

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3628/dscf0176xq9.jpg

Not quite as sunny unfortunately

Well in Wooders. That's the kinda of piccie that puts our Liverpool problems in perspective. Not long ago Perth was a one-horse country town in the middle of nowhere, not in the same league, not to mind division as Liverpool.

And now... :ohno:

Awayo, it still is in the middle of nowhere:lol: but you are right. Perth is expanding almost as fast as the frequent bush fires that they seem to suffer every year. OK they have tons of land to play with but what did impress me was the infrastructure ( roads & railnetwork) was almost being built ahead of the sprawling urbanisation. Compact CBD and shopping area plus a bit of inner city wilderness at Kings Park, a beautiful waterfront city. We can but dream

In terms of growth it puts Liverpool to shame, but imo the skyline is 'any city', not very out standing or recognizable, Craigie Mann clearly has a super brain.

Perth is similar to Liverpool (honest:nuts: ), compact CBD, ditto shopping area, waterfront exhibition hall and ferry boats, my photo does show all the towers in the CBD, so it is comparable to our CBD.

On the same theme:

[Not quite as sunny unfortunately

You got me on this one DJ, GIVE US A CLUE, is it in europe?

It's US

east or west coast?

Miami.

It's East coast.

It's a poor photo from a dodgy angle and it's probably not the most obvious skyline anyway (unless you watch a certain crime-based tv show!), so it's not surprising that it's not familiar. A quick look at this place on skyscraperpage reveals that it's a future skyscraper hotspot though. Of the 25 buildings on the first page only 3 have been completed!

EDIT: Awayo got it while I was typing this, lol

Hello Billy. :wave:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1624/half1zj2.jpg

Hmm, it looks like there might be enough space left for that 35 storey tower that was mooted a while back. Whether it will see the light of day is another matter....

Process of elimination really. I've been to or know what the like skyline of looks like most major cities in the US. I was thinking, erm, Minneapolis, St Paul, etc., before guessing it.

xx

xx

strange, i had heard city lofts were looking at a second tall building. maybe just an unfounded rumour.

apparantly theres going to be another tower, across the dock from alexandra tower, could that be it?

strange, i had heard city lofts were looking at a second tall building. maybe just an unfounded rumour.

From AFL-uk.com, There was a Feasabiltiy study, as shown below.

http://www.afl-uk.com/portfol_resi/pres_halftd1.gif

Current City Lofts to the left, maybe there is room for a tower in future...!

Awayo, it still is in the middle of nowhere:lol: but you are right. Perth is expanding almost as fast as the frequent bush fires that they seem to suffer every year. OK they have tons of land to play with but what did impress me was the infrastructure ( roads & railnetwork) was almost being built ahead of the sprawling urbanisation. Compact CBD and shopping area plus a bit of inner city wilderness at Kings Park, a beautiful waterfront city. We can but dream

if my facts are right i'm pretty sure that the closest city to Perth is Singapore (city?). Been to both and they both have a great skyline.

if my facts are right i'm pretty sure that the closest city to Perth is Singapore (city?). Been to both and they both have a great skyline.

Not sure if it is, but Singapore skyline is fantastichtthttp://img238.imageshack.us/img238/4225/pc090053qd2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

City Lofts Yesterday

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m30/chansau/Liverpool/DSC01763.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m30/chansau/Liverpool/DSC01764.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m30/chansau/Liverpool/DSC01752.jpg

yes it was afl. thats the one. presumably it never got past the costing stage, then again they appear to have a big fat space on their plot.

City Lofts from Level 24 West Tower

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m30/chansau/Inside%20West%20Tower/DSC01787.jpg

Great pics chans!

Why are City Lofts building their second apartment block on the side of a dock that is being filled in. Surely no one will want to live their as their view will be crap and the potential of other towers blocking their view of the Mersey will be high with developers looking for a quick fix!

thing about it being filled in, yes a tower seems obvious on there but its a bit like cut n fill, the soli needs time to settle, im talking years
there is no way anything aver 4 stories could be built on new soli especially as the water table wil be really high

Just think from that view, when you are at the top everything will be half in size:)

Cant wait Westi!!!!

Is it just me or is Half Tide next to Alex gonna look crap once these towers are complete? They soo should have stuck with the AFL proposal.... :(

Any one know if anythings being proposed on the site to the left of Alex and opposite 3A? Looks like a prime spot for stonking tower! No doubt itll be a 5 storey let down though if 3A gets the nod....

Found some pics I took back in June from the 20th floor of City Lofts

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m30/chansau/Liverpool/City%20Lofts/CameraPictures031.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m30/chansau/Liverpool/City%20Lofts/CameraPictures026.jpg


http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m30/chansau/Liverpool/City%20Lofts/CameraPictures027.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m30/chansau/Liverpool/City%20Lofts/CameraPictures028.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m30/chansau/Liverpool/City%20Lofts/CameraPictures029.jpg

Cant believe how much West Tower has come on since then....:applause: :master: :applause:

The top photo there makes me think that Leeds street is wasted, could be an amazing part of the city if it was planned and developed properly.

Cant believe how much West Tower has come on since then....:applause: :master: :applause:

Seemed to do very little between the start of Jan to that point and then went a bit mad for the last 6 months. Another 6 months at this rate and it should be almost done, externally at least.

how did beetham get passed, it blocks views of the cathedral from city lofts, oh thats right, because they had already knocked city lofts down a few floors, leeds street could still become great, it just takes time and vision...shame we dont have much vision for the wider range of things here, just tunnel vision....maintain views of the catherdals and graces at all cost...ie the cost to the economy and making the rest of the city look shite, bastards

oh thats right, because they had already knocked city lofts down a few floors

Err, didn't City Lofts actually go up a few floors from the original plans?

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/227/cityloftsla2.jpg

23/01/07 -

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3568/citylofts8nt.jpg

Wow - fantastic shot Mersey - we should compile the best photos and put them on the 'rate-a-scraper' thread..

great pic, i think thats a brilliant building ;)

City Lofts dock wall this afternoon.
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2923/zcityloftswall5sk.jpg

Looking at those pics of the bit by eddies pub, and the BMW garrage, where u join the strand, wudnt it be good if there was a round about ther instead of all these fussy roads leading to lots of traffic lights. A roundabout, surrounded by Beetham, Kind Eddies towers and something on the other side where the BMW showroom is, a true entry to the citty from the north

City Lofts phase 2, a brilliant location but crap development, a top example of WHS scaring the planners into allow an 'in-keeping' red brick dump, a wasted opportunity IMO.


http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9996/cityloftphase25qy9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3889/cityloftphase26zf8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7332/cityloftphase27zp1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I agree, this building will block views at that height or any height above this, and is not really in keeping with the warehouse next door, even if they are using red brick. :bash:

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7715/zcityloftstwo776aw6.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3980/zcityloftstwogl4.jpg

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/8484/march07098sm1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Half tide dock, 21 April 2007.....

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/2792/20070421waterfront2007apm0.jpg


Still a lot more steel to be erected, like many others I have my doubts about this block, the suggested tower would have been perfect in this location. Suppose we should be happy that it atleast it hides those "tin sheds" from all the cruise liner passengers:lol:

I'm a great believer in waiting to see what a building looks like when completed before passing judgement. I didn't find the renderings the slightest bit impressive but I think it is likely to have a significant impact on the look of the waterfront.

The Waterloo Warehouse has always stood in splendid isolation with only low rise buildings in its vicinity. The effect of this new block will be to link it into the wall of buildings flanking the east side of Princes Dock and the Half Tide Dock which include the Malmaison, City Lofts and the MSCP. Clearly some more development is needed - particularly on the Princes 3A and 3B sites but the whole appearance of the waterfront is gradually changing.

City Lofts Phase 2, 2 June 2007...................

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1043/20070602trip07ferrymay0lq0.jpg

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8910/20070602trip07ferrymay0zm4.jpg

Bit to soon to pass judgement on this development but this could be the perfect buffer between the Waterloo apartments and a 50 storey beast that Peel have proposed as part of the Liverpool Waters scheme.

I'm inclined to agree with Woody and Martin about holding off judgement until I see the finshed building (although I was far from impressed with the original renders). Part of the problem is that it's not an easy site to work with - it's very long and thin so prohibits lots of potential design plans, basically limiting them to a long, thin, warehouse shape building. And if it does serve the purpose of connecting the two docks more coherently, then I think it will have done it's job. I don't think this was the right site for anything particularly tall, and although an outrageously creative design could have worked here (and would have looked much better I admit) - it was a very difficult site to ballance, so I can see why City Lofts went down the safe route. Let's hope it's the last development that does go down that route for a while though.

Just spotted that the ground floor at City Lofts is now under offer. Looks like some more ground level activity for Princes Dock :)

http://www.kingsturge.co.uk/property/city-lofts_william-jessop-way_liverpool.htm

Thought I'd lost this close-up(ish) pic of City Lofts 2 and neighbours from Sunday due to a card error but thankfully not -

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/8504/cl2xp7.jpg

wow , MO fantastic shot