I'm sure many would agree that in the New South (which for this thread excludes Texas and Oklahoma), Atlanta is King. But what about the runner up to the Atl? Who is second major and what criteria do you use to determine this? Big businesses, population, growth and development, etc...

Atlanta isn't king or the first city. Though I do believe there are primary citys in the southeast, with Atlanta being one of them - Atlanta doesn't totally dominate the region. But Charlotte?

Anyways, you're new - so I understand, but this is a topic that gets peoples panties in a bunch every time & not that recently there were multiple threads discussing the same subject.

Welcome to the forum....

How about New Orleans? Is that included?

Atlanta isn't king or the first city. Though I do believe there are primary citys in the southeast, with Atlanta being one of them - Atlanta doesn't totally dominate the region. But Charlotte?

Anyways, you're new - so I understand, but this is a topic that gets peoples panties in a bunch every time & not that recently there were multiple threads discussing the same subject.

Welcome to the forum....
How could you not even consider Charlotte? Charlotte and Atlanta are probably the two most important cities in the south. Charlotte houses many of the biggest banks in the nation as well as many other big businesses and the city. THese businesses account for 3 trillion dollars of the U.S. economy.

I would put Atlanta and Miami at a tie...with a number of 2nd tier citys of which Charlotte would be a part of.

Fools! Charlotte isn't number two at all....

It's numero uno!

;)

How could you not even consider Charlotte? Charlotte and Atlanta are probably the two most important cities in the south. Charlotte houses many of the biggest banks in the nation as well as many other big businesses and the city. THese businesses account for 3 trillion dollars of the U.S. economy.

Good for Charlotte.

Isn't transport important to? Where would we be without Memphis or Charleston? In fact, where would the banks in Charlotte be without Tampa or Richmond, among other cities, where the actual processing occurs. Charlotte is home to the corporate offices of two major banks, but much of the actual work occurs in other cities.

Houston is first and Atlanta is second.

Atlanta is Capital of the New World, baby! ;)

Atlanta isn't king or the first city. Though I do believe there are primary citys in the southeast, with Atlanta being one of them - Atlanta doesn't totally dominate the region.

Exactly. You can't have a "second city" without a "first city". The southeast has at least four or five metros with a solid claim as top dog, and then half a dozen more on a tier under that. But nobody stands out so much that they could be ranked as we would rank NYC, Chicago, LA, etc.

All of the big cities in the south are important. Atlanta has its media, and businesses, etc, Charlotte is big on banking and business, Houston is big on Oil, and energy, etc, Dallas in business, etc. Sure..there can be a "king" and "queen", but in the end, all of these cities are nearly equally important.

Including Houston (I think its the only big city in Texas that is actually Southern. Dallas is close, but no cigar).....

First Tier:
Atlanta, Houston
Second Tier:
New Orleans, Miami
Third Tier:
Tampa, Charlotte
and you could include in there...
Memphis, Nashville

Houston is first and Atlanta is second.

Ha, that's funny.
Anyways, he said to exclude Texas and Oklahoma.


Tier 1-
Atlanta, Miami

Tier 2-
everyone else

I think it's safe to say most people think that as well.

First Tier:
Atlanta, Houston
Second Tier:
New Orleans, Miami
Third Tier:
Tampa, Charlotte
and you could include in there...
Memphis, Nashville

Never quite thought of it that way, but I agree with you. That list make more sense than most others I've seen (including mine) :).

I'll put the "runts in the race..................RALEIGH BABY!

Ha, that's funny.
Anyways, he said to exclude Texas and Oklahoma.


Tier 1-
Atlanta, Miami

Tier 2-
everyone else

I think it's safe to say most people think that as well.

In that case, Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, & eastern Tennessee should be removed from consideration - this area is under more influence from Dallas & Houston than Atlanta is.

Tier One:
Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, Washington (due to influence over most of the central seaboard - VA, WV, eastern NC)
Tier Two:
Charlotte, Birmingham, Nashville, Memphis, Louisville, New Orleans, Tampa, Richmond

I'll put the "runts in the race..................RALEIGH BABY!
Oh, no!!! Get ready for some serious debates :jk: That would be a bit bold, considering the competition. I was getting ready to post something, saying that I am so glad Raleigh is nowhere near the competition. There is hardly anything here to make us even a candidate :( Raleigh is a truly great place to live, but we have a VERY long way to go before we become a major candidate. With New Orleans, Miami and Atlanta in the competition it would be hard to notice Raleigh. Charlotte and Tampa are becoming more and more "important" (for the lack of better word) for the South's identity. Traditionally major Southern cities like Nashville, Memphis, B'ham, Jacksonville, Richmond are also getting increased amount of interest and will become more and more. Then we have cities like Norfolk, Orlando, and Mobile that also gain visibility. Not to mention Savannah and Charleston, with their rich history and superb urban fabric... I don't know, but there isn't much room for Raleigh right now... If we take the entire metro in consideration, then Raleigh (Triangle) has a great chance to becoming something major... in the future.

Oh boy. I'm sure this thread will result in a flame war.

---tie for #1miami,atlanta,houston---------
2.charlotte,dallas
3.tampa,orlando,san antonio,raleigh and some others

---tie for #1miami,atlanta,houston---------
2.charlotte,dallas
3.tampa,orlando,san antonio,raleigh and some others

Dallas should be in same tier as Miami, Houston and Atlanta though.

Total Southeaster states:

"Tier 1"
Houston
Dallas
Miami
Atlanta
San Antonio
Austin
"Tier 2"
Charlotte
Louisville
St. Louis
New Orleans
Nashville
Memphis
D.C.
Tampa
Jacksonville

NO BIRMINGHAM?!?!?!??!?!


I KILL YOU!!!! GOSH!!!

Top Teir
Dallas/Fort Worth
Houston
Miami
Atlanta

2nd Tier
San Antonio
Charlotte
Austin
New Orleans
Jacksonville
Nashville
Memphis
Birmingham
Tampa

yay! You get the gold star!

Tier 1 - Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Miami
Tier 2 - Charlotte
Tier 3 - Austin, Birmingham, Greensboro, Jacksonville, Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans, Orlando, Raleigh, Richmond, San Antonio
Tier 4 - Columbia, Greenville, Huntsville, Jackson, Mobile, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Winston-Salem

I put Charlotte in a separate class basically because as far as ammenities, there if almost nothing that Charlotte doesn't have that the others do, but it is just present to a lesser extent (except fixed-guideway transit, which is U/C now).

(which for this thread excludes Texas and Oklahoma), ...


So, the Tier 1 Cities are Atlanta and Miami. Not Houston, Dallas, and definetely not Austin/San Antonio. At least not for this thread.
:)

Dallas should be in same tier as Miami, Houston and Atlanta though.



Dallas is number one on the list!!!

Total Southeaster states:

"Tier 1"
Houston
Dallas
Miami
Atlanta
San Antonio
Austin
"Tier 2"
Charlotte
Louisville
St. Louis
New Orleans
Nashville
Memphis
D.C.
Tampa
Jacksonville

St. Louis isnt southern but it is sure a little more important than Austin, TX and to put Austin in front of New Orleans, Washington, Charlotte isn't to fair either but that is your opinion.. Let the War BEGIN!!! lol..

My list:
#1 cities
Houston
Dallas
Atlanta
Miami
Washington,DC(If you include in the South)

#2 cities
Charlotte
New Orleans
Austin
San Antonio
Louisville
Memphis
Nashville
Richmond
Tampa
Orlando
Jacksonville

#3 cities
Birmingham
Greensboro
Oklahoma City
Tulsa
Winston-Salem
Raleigh
Little Rock

#4 cities
Jackson
Columbia
Lexington
Shreveport
Corpus Christi
Pensacola
Mobile-Biloxi

(may need to add/change some later if complaints)

Lol.....I just noticed that.....Austin and San Antonio are more important than Washington, DC....hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry about that.....I just found it a bit amusing.

"Tier 1"
Houston
Dallas
Miami
Atlanta
San Antonio
Austin


Austin and San Antonio should not be in teir 1 and DC should be in teir 1. i cant believe you put them in tier 3.

There seems to be alot of infighting between atlanta and houston promoters.
So here is a more diplomatic list:

Tier 1
1. Atlanta (Commerce Center) - Houston (Commerce & Energy)
2. Dallas (Commerce) - Miami (Int'l Influence)

Tier 2
1. Charlotte (Finance) - Norfolk (Military Presence)
2. New Orleans - Tampa

Tier 3
1. Nashville - Raleigh-Durham - Orlando (Shear Destination)
2. Greensboro-Winston Salem - Memphis
3. Birmingham - Austin

IMO Humble as it is

Tier 1:

Houston, Atlanta


Tier 2:

Dallas, Miami


Tier 3:

Tampa, Charlotte, Orlando, San Antonio, Hampton Roads


Tier 4:

Austin, Triad, Triangle, Jacksonville, Nashville, Memphis, New Orleans, Louisville


Tier 5:

Birmingham, Roanoke, Richmond, Columbia


No D.C. I'm part of the "Washington is not part of the south" click.

Ok, a less lazy list:

Tier 1:

Houston, Dallas, Miami, Atlanta

Tier 2:

Washington DC, Jacksonville, Tampa, San Antonio, Austin, New Orleans, Charlotte, Nashville, Memphis, Louisville, El Paso, Fort Worth

Tier 3:

Birmingham, Mobile, Baton Rouge, Charleston, Raleigh, Jackson, Corpus Christi, Amarillo

1.Houston
2.Atlanta
3.Miami
4.Dallas
5.?

Clarksdale, Mississippi, home of the Crossroads :) :

http://www.pbase.com/image/42112049/medium.jpg

These kind of threads tend to get silly but from the Brookings Insititute study a couple months ago described the southern cities this way

Atlanta - Regional capital
Dallas - Regional capital
Houston - Energy capital
Miami - Latin American capital
DC - nations capital (duh)

I don't think this means that a city is "dominant" over another simply that the cities economic growth and development is primarily derived from these areas.

1.Houston
2.Atlanta
3.Miami
4.Dallas
5.?

Probably Tampa next.

Obviously if you're one of those "D.C. is in the South" people then it would be D.C., but I'll say Tampa.

^ Even then, Washington does have an influence over all of Virginia & much of North Carolina. So - Washington should be considered.

Tier 1: (in no particular order)

DC (I'm in that click)
Dallas
Miami
Houston
Atlanta

Tier 2:

Tampa
Orlando
Hampton Roads
San Antonio

Tier 3:

everyone else above a population of 1 million.

actually dallas and houston are tied for one, with dallas probably having a slight lead. then miami is next, then we can talk about atlanta overall, but no way shape or form is atlanta number one and charlotte number 2.

I think it is VERY reasonable, when considering cities that have influence over the southeast - Washington, Atlanta, Miami, Dallas & Houston are the top tier cities.

Ok, a less lazy list:

Tier 1:

Houston, Dallas, Miami, Atlanta

Tier 2:

Washington DC, Jacksonville, Tampa, San Antonio, Austin, New Orleans, Charlotte, Nashville, Memphis, Louisville, El Paso, Fort Worth

Tier 3:

Birmingham, Mobile, Baton Rouge, Charleston, Raleigh, Jackson, Corpus Christi, Amarillo
El Paso in tier 2? Amarillo in the same Tier as Birmingham? This seem heavily Texas weighted! :) I used to live in El Paso, and I can attest that it is in a league of its own, somewhere south of Tier 3, way south! ;) And I am also part of that DC is not part of the south click, but if it was then it would be Tier 1.

actually dallas and houston are tied for one, with dallas probably having a slight lead. then miami is next, then we can talk about atlanta overall, but no way shape or form is atlanta number one and charlotte number 2.
Would you care to explain your rankings?

One thing that I like about the Southeast is that there is so much competition (actively and passively) between its cities. New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Seattle, and Denver dominate their regions quite easily.

I think the point has been reached that Texas and Florida should be excluded from the Southeast discussion, because they have very distinct identities (despite common interests) and immense powers of their own as states. It's akin to saying that New York and Pennsylvania are part of New England. I've never accepted the idea that TX and FL are the South/Southeast, and most people who are from other regions of the nation usually agree with this idea, from what I've heard.

couldnt find 04-05, but if i could i dont think atlanta could jump that far up to be number 4

Top 10 ranked CMSAs with Fortune 500 headquarters in 2003:

1. New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island NY-NJ-CT-PA CMSA - 80
2. Chicago-Gary-Kenosha IL-IN-WI CMSA - 31
3. San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose CA CMSA - 26
4. Los Angeles-Riverside-Orange County CA CMSA - 21
5. Dallas-Fort Worth TX CMSA - 19
5. Houston-Galveston-Brazoria TX CMSA - 19
5. Washington-Baltimore DC-MD-VA-WV CMSA - 19
8. Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint MI CMSA - 18
9. Minneapolis-St. Paul MN-WI MSA - 17
10. Philadelphia-Wilmington-Atlantic City PA-NJ-DE-MD CMSA - 15


RANK MSA 2004 (atl still barely just cracks the top 10)
1 New York-Newark-Edison, NY-NJ-PA 18709802
2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA 12925330
3 Chicago-Naperville-Joliet, IL-IN-WI 9391515
4 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD 5800614
5 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 5700256
6 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Miami Beach, FL 5361723
7 Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land, TX 5180443
8 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV 5139549
9 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA 4708297
10 Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI 4493165


DFW ranked first in the nation for employment growth in the 1990s, adding a total of 760,600 net new jobs. Second ranked Atlanta was nearly 100,000 jobs behind with growth of 671,700 and the widely reported San Francisco Bay area, including San Jose, did not even break the 600,000 mark. (U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics)

Tier 1...Houston, Atlanta, Dallas
Tier 2...Charlotte, New Orleans, Miami, Jacksonville, Tampa, San Antonio, Memphis, Nashville, Austin, Fort Worth
Tier 3...Birmingham, Baton Rouge, Knoxville, Little Rock, El Paso, Mobile, Orlando, Raleigh, Arlington
Tier 4...Corpus Christi, Montgomery, Jackson, Chattanooga, Shreveport, Columbia, Winston-Salem, Huntsville, Beaumont, Gainesville, Tallahassee, Lafayette, Columbus (GA), Savannah, Fayetteville (AR), Durham

One thing that I like about the Southeast is that there is so much competition (actively and passively) between its cities. New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Seattle, and Denver dominate their regions quite easily.

Denver? I guess it kinda sorta dominates, simply because there's no competition for several states. What about Las Vegas? Phoenix?

As for the others, I don't even think they outright dominate anything. Sure, NYC is massive, but some of America's largest, most urban cities are in the same region...boston, Philly, D.C.

The midwest is also quite balanced, with one massive city (Chicago) followed by some fairly large metros (minneapolis-St. Paul, Cleveland, Detroit) and some good mid-sized cities (Cincinnati, Columbus, Indy, Milwaukee). Seems just as balanced as any other region of the country.

You have a point with L.A. and Seattle though. There isn't a whole lot of competition for their regional might. Perhaps the Bay Area is competition for L.A., and Portland for Seattle...but there's not much else.

This thread is so SSC-esque.

and I love how my city is grouped with El Paso and Jackson, yay! :D

Ok, a less lazy list:

Tier 1:

Houston, Dallas, Miami, Atlanta

Tier 2:

Washington DC, Jacksonville, Tampa, San Antonio, Austin, New Orleans, Charlotte, Nashville, Memphis, Louisville, El Paso, Fort Worth

Tier 3:

Birmingham, Mobile, Baton Rouge, Charleston, Raleigh, Jackson, Corpus Christi, Amarillo

Washington DC, one of the primary cities of a metro of nearly 8 million, is not in the same tier as tampa, San Antonio, Austin and the like. It's in the same tier as Houston , Miami , Atlanta and Dallas.

Tier 1...Houston, Atlanta, Dallas
Tier 2...Charlotte, New Orleans, Miami, Jacksonville, Tampa, San Antonio, Memphis, Nashville, Austin, Fort Worth



:sleepy: are you serious,i don't mind seeing miami in tier 2 but they're with tampa,and jacksonville 2cities that are crap compared to us.in the state i feel like orlando gives us more of a challenge then tampa and jacksonville

Poor illiterate people-the author of the thread specifically said to EXCLUDE Texas from this thread. For very obvious reasons....a few examples include el paso even being mentioned, and Austin suddenly a Tier 1 City, over Miami, etc.

It isn't illiteracy - it is illiterate to ignore Dallas & Houston's influence over most of the western sphere of the south. Would it make any sense to request the most important cities of the south but ignore the state of Georgia?

Illiterate means inability to read or write so how is it illiterate to ignore Houston and Dallas?

It isn't illiteracy - it is illiterate to ignore Dallas & Houston's influence over most of the western sphere of the south. Would it make any sense to request the most important cities of the south but ignore the state of Georgia?

Oh, I don't know.

I think the Charlotte poster who started this thread was most likely referring to the Southeast.

And while it's true that much of Arkansas is all-Dallas, and that much of Louisiana is all-Houston, the same could be said of portions of Kentucky being tied-in to St. Louis or Cincy.

I think the Charlotte poster who started this thread was most likely referring to the Southeast.

^But the title of the thread says "South".

Ok then, we should consider any area that is not dominant by any Texas city - so the southern Atlantic Coast & east half of the Deep South.

It isn't illiteracy - it is illiterate to ignore Dallas & Houston's influence over most of the western sphere of the south. Would it make any sense to request the most important cities of the south but ignore the state of Georgia?

It may not make sense, but it levels th eplaying field a bit. Don't get mad at me, I'm just repeating the request of the author of this thread :).

RWORKMAN05, I used the term illiterate, because it seemed that most forumers seemed unable to read the request of the author, which was to exclude Texas.

It is threads like this that make me give up on this site. Plus, I have watched this thread grow since yesterday, and what kind of emotinal hatred makes someone keep mentioning that Texas should be excluded here. Last time I checked this was just an internet message board.

^But the title of the thread says "South".

And the text of that post says excluding the Texas cities.

Ok then, we should consider any area that is not dominant by any Texas city - so the southern Atlantic Coast & east half of the Deep South.

No, the poster said exclude certain cities, not certain regions, one of which was Atlanta, as well as Houston and Dallas.

Well, if we are going to include El Paso, then we might as well go for Albuquerque and Phoenix, I mean they are in the southern US, and I'm sure they have some influence on their areas. Am I right?

In typical fashion, like the similar ones before, this thread has gone to hell.

Is Jackson, MS more influenced by Atlanta or Houston or Dallas? Or is it a Tier 1 city?

Those of you putting Birmingham on the level of Baton Rouge, Jackson, Mobile, Amarillo, etc... have you ever even been to Birmingham? None of those other cities are close to Birmingham in population or importance.

Using the 2004 population estimates...

Birmingham-Hoover MSA= 1,082,193

Birmingham-Hoover MSA + Cullman Co= 1,161,382


Birmingham-HooverMSA + Tuscaloosa Co +Cullman Co= 1,328,486


And until Wachovia took over SouthTrust, Birmingham was almost as big of a banking center as Charlotte. Technically, in fact, we were tied with Charlotte.

Include Texas if you want, but the people that are putting Corpus Christi, Arlington (if they are talking about TX and not VA), Beaumont, Amarillo and even El Paso (although to a lesser degree) are dillusional. I've barely even heard of Beaumont. And Arlington is a glorified suburb, is it not? Fort Worth should be on the list before El Paso is, and I think Fort Worth is stretching it a bit.

Poor illiterate people-the author of the thread specifically said to EXCLUDE Texas from this thread. For very obvious reasons....a few examples include el paso even being mentioned, and Austin suddenly a Tier 1 City, over Miami, etc.


why is it that people want to exclude texas when talking about atlanta. i wish you guys could face up to your competition.

put up or shut up

why is it that people want to exclude texas when talking about atlanta. i wish you guys could face up to your competition.

put up or shut up
Isn't the creator of this thread from NC?

This thread is pointless. What the hell is its creator out to prove? Oh yeah . . . nothing.

why is it that people want to exclude texas when talking about atlanta. i wish you guys could face up to your competition.

put up or shut up


Was that supposed to bother me? I live in Virginia, so I really don't care about either.
Did you make this thread? NO, you did not. The author of the thread, who is from NC, specifically said to exclude Texas. Mainly because of the way-overboard egos that some* forumers have. Putting El Paso in the list, lol. Ohh, and then putting Austin in the Tier 1 category above Miami, lol.
Some great examples.

PS-Roanoke is the Top Tier 1, so back off everyone.

:)

Was that supposed to bother me? I live in Virginia, so I really don't care about either.
Did you make this thread? NO, you did not. The author of the thread, who is from NC, specifically said to exclude Texas. Mainly because of the way-overboard egos that some* forumers have. Putting El Paso in the list, lol. Ohh, and then putting Austin in the Tier 1 category above Miami, lol.
Some great examples.

PS-Roanoke is the Top Tier 1, so back off everyone.

:)
I agree

Except you need to substitute Roanoke with Houston. Best city of SE evar!!!!11

You are soo right, James. I guess Roanoke can be #2 for a little while.

:rofl:
Hey louisianacharm, how you liking my new signature?

I hate the quote, but the title is great :).

:rofl:
Hey louisianacharm, how you liking my new signature?
hehe, it's cute.

^Of course, I won't keep it long. I'm gonna try to find a new quote every day or two. Tis my new thing. :|

This is your moment of fame lacharm, so live it to the fullest.

Also, I thought I might answer the actual thread now . . .
In my opinion, Houston, Miami, Atlanta, and New Orleans are the South's 'First Cities', making the possible 'Second Cities' Birmingham, Dallas, Richmond, Tampa, Charlotte, and Louisville, among others.

^I agree, except you need to switch Dallas and New Orleans around.

First of all Miami is second to none...these threads are idiotic to begin with so hopefully I will end it with a few facts:

MIAMI is the largest metropolitan area in the SOUTHEAST with over 5.3 million people.
MIAMI INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT is the largest international airport in the US next to JFK in New York City in terms of arrivals and departures.
The Port of Miami ranks first in the world in cruise ship departures.
We also have the largest amount of foreign banks outside of NYC.
The amount of highrises being constructed now in the metropolitan area far exceeds anything that is going on at the moment in the south let alone the US.
We are expanding our heavy rail system as well.

Agreed, these threads are idiotic. Miami exceeds every city in the South, not only in the present, but in the future. Thats quite obvious.

Miami's inner city is also one of the most struggling and economically depressed in the nation, and metro miami's population is one of the oldest in the nation thanks to mass retiree inmigration.

My kinda town!

I kid, I kid. I personally put it second-tier right up there with Dallas. I give Miami its props, but I still wouldn't put it 'second to none'.

Agreed, these threads are idiotic. Miami exceeds every city in the South, not only in the present, but in the future. Thats quite obvious.
Uh..no

Agreed, these threads are idiotic. Miami exceeds every city in the South, not only in the present, but in the future. Thats quite obvious.


SkyDive thank you for your response but I was being sarcastic by simply stating the obvious.

:rofl:
Hey louisianacharm, how you liking my new signature?


first, the quote is horrible, and you look like an idiot. second, my post proved to be right. even for the forumers who are all on atlanta's nuts (and i meant to add north carolina to the last post, but didnt for various reasons).
third until you can prove to me wrong otherwise, instead of making some stupid ass list based on your dumbass brain cells, then you are the stupid ass. it is obvious you were offended, and usually when people are offended, that shows guilt. oh yeah........

fuck you :bowtie:

So let me get this straight....you're calling him an idiot, and you're blowin' up like a 3 year old child? Great example of your intelligence......and people curse when they can't think of anything good to say :).

^im not blowing up, just letting him know how i feel about what he said.

And until Wachovia took over SouthTrust, Birmingham was almost as big of a banking center as Charlotte. Technically, in fact, we were tied with Charlotte.

I've never heard Birmingham referred to as a banking power on the national scale. What banks are based there?

Regions
Amsouth
Compass Bancshares
SouthTrust (that is, until Walkovaya)

Include Texas if you want, but the people that are putting Corpus Christi, Arlington (if they are talking about TX and not VA), Beaumont, Amarillo and even El Paso (although to a lesser degree) are dillusional. I've barely even heard of Beaumont. And Arlington is a glorified suburb, is it not? Fort Worth should be on the list before El Paso is, and I think Fort Worth is stretching it a bit.

How is Fort Worth stretching it but not Austin or San Antonio? Give me a break, Fort Worth is much more influencial than any of you morons give it credit for. Consider that if Fort Worth still had an MSA (stupid Census bureau), it would be the 5th largest in the South at 1.93 million people. Not to mention it's headquarters to the largest airline in the WORLD, a company any of you with contacts has probably heard of (Alcon, they make the green and white contact cases), and most of the military aircraft in this country and several others were made by a company based in FW (either Bell Helicopters OR Lockeed Martin).

Also, look at your paper money, on the right side of the front. See a little FW? Yeah, Fort Worth has one of only TWO currency plants in the entire country. Charlotte may hold the big financial firms, but a lot of their money was made right here...

Fort Worth doesn't deserve to be treated like it doesn't exist. Maybe if you idiots would open your eyes and stop being so ignorant, Fort Worth and several other deserving cities would get the respect they're entitled too. Oh wait, dur, I forgot this is Skyscraper City! Why the fuck should I even bother with defending my city and expecting intelligent answers? Congradulations moderators, you control one of the biggest shitholes on the internet!

first, the quote is horrible, and you look like an idiot. second, my post proved to be right. even for the forumers who are all on atlanta's nuts (and i meant to add north carolina to the last post, but didnt for various reasons).
third until you can prove to me wrong otherwise, instead of making some stupid ass list based on your dumbass brain cells, then you are the stupid ass. it is obvious you were offended, and usually when people are offended, that shows guilt. oh yeah........

fuck you :bowtie:
It's obvious that you were offended after reading this post.

Atlanta nuts are delicious, you should try some.:lol:

Tier 1...Houston, Atlanta, Dallas
Tier 2...Charlotte, New Orleans, Miami, Jacksonville, Tampa, San Antonio, Memphis, Nashville, Austin, Fort Worth
Tier 3...Birmingham, Baton Rouge, Knoxville, Little Rock, El Paso, Mobile, Orlando, Raleigh, Arlington
Tier 4...Corpus Christi, Montgomery, Jackson, Chattanooga, Shreveport, Columbia, Winston-Salem, Huntsville, Beaumont, Gainesville, Tallahassee, Lafayette, Columbus (GA), Savannah, Fayetteville (AR), Durham

Mobile in Tier 3 while Columbia is in Tier 4? I don't think so. By those standards Charleston should be Tier 3; for one, it is the largest container-port in the Southeast (which automatically means that as far as seaports go, which contribute significantly to both cities' economies, Charleston has the edge over Mobile), and Charleston and Columbia are basically in the same league (UAs of roughly 425,000) which would place Charleston in a higher league than Columbia, which is preposterous.

Not to mention that in the 2004 Census estimates, Columbia's metro ranks #71 (679,456) while Mobile's ranks #119 (400,526). For that matter, Columbia also ranked higher than Little Rock (#80, 636,636) and Knoxville (#79, 647,170) and only fell a few places behind El Paso (3 places) and Baton Rouge (4 places), which were all designated as "Tier 3" cities. Furthermore, Columbia is quite ahead of most of the other "Tier 4" cities: Chattanooga ranked #98, Durham #104, Corpus Christi #114 (all three higher than Mobile, a "Tier 3" city), Fayettville #123, Beaumont #126, Shreveport #127, Huntsville #134, Montgomery #135, Tallahassee #143 (at this point on, Columbia ranks over twice as high), Savannah #147, Columbus #158, and Gainesville (???) #176 (assuming you meant Gainesville, FL; Gainesville, GA ranks a whopping #239). Columbia (as well as Charleston) is certainly, at the least, a "Tier 3" city, for whatever it's worth (which is probably the ultimate question here).

FW you get a little edgy whenever people discard Fort Worth and I dont blame you, alot of people are oblivious to what other peoples cities do, and in general they are all very important. Should one large city be gone all of us would feel some sort of effect of their dissappearance. I wouldnt let it bug you so much...it is what it is.

Other than that this thread is lame, it was started by a newbie....so he didnt know better I guess. There is not a first second or third city in the south or the entire nation. (unfortunately these things always have to be started in the southern area making everyone here look like neo-confederate yokels) Anyways thats why we live in a country of puzzle pieces and contrasts where every area makes a difference.

Fort Worth doesn't deserve to be treated like it doesn't exist. Maybe if you idiots would open your eyes and stop being so ignorant, Fort Worth and several other deserving cities would get the respect they're entitled too. Oh wait, dur, I forgot this is Skyscraper City! Why the fuck should I even bother with defending my city and expecting intelligent answers? Congradulations moderators, you control one of the biggest shitholes on the internet!

Whoa there... chill out already. Look at where that paragraph began and where it ended. You're getting WAY too worked up...

Houston
Dallas
Miami
Atlanta

i wish this thread would get closed

I think fwskyline needs to get laid... or concentrate on things a normal 15 year old teenager would think about ;) :D

i wish this thread would get closed
Why?
I think fwskyline needs to get laid... or concentrate on things a normal 15 year old teenager would think about ;) :D
Hahah, I agree. You know I like you Jonny.;)

Based on size, the second city (considering that Houston and Dallas are probebly in the South Central category), I would say Miami. But, Miami doesn't want to be identified as a southern city because of all the Jewish New Yorkers that claim it as a mecca to their culture. Therefore, it must be Charlotte. Charlotte is the third largest city in the southeast. Evern New Orleans is quite a bit smaller not. Charlotte is probably the second most important city as well as far as banking and commerce. So the second city should be Charlotte.

^Based on size, Miami is the second largest in the South, behind Dallas and largest by far in the SE. Metro Tampa, Orlando and Norfolk are all SE centers with a larger population than Charlotte's.

one really should see atlanta and charlotte in the same day.

they shouldnt be intered in the same sentence unless you are talking about cities with tall bank of america buildings, cities on I-85, or cities that sprawl.

think about it this way: buckhead could easily take on uptown. then right there is sandy springs, and everything else along I-285. then the massive office complexes at 285 and 75. oh yeah...we forgot downtown and midtown. there's simply no comparison between the two. after really thinking about it - charlotte isnt a younger atlanta. i think the way that cars are used in the development of a city will change how charlotte grows and will make it look much different from atlanta.

btw, fwskyline has a hot gurlie.

one really should see atlanta and charlotte in the same day.

they shouldnt be intered in the same sentence unless you are talking about cities with tall bank of america buildings, cities on I-85, or cities that sprawl.

think about it this way: buckhead could easily take on uptown. then right there is sandy springs, and everything else along I-285. then the massive office complexes at 285 and 75. oh yeah...we forgot downtown and midtown. there's simply no comparison between the two. after really thinking about it - charlotte isnt a younger atlanta. i think the way that cars are used in the development of a city will change how charlotte grows and will make it look much different from atlanta.

btw, fwskyline has a hot gurlie.


You know I was a bit surprised at how small Charlotte is when I visited. When you see the impressive skyline you see the entire central business district. Was there large parts of the city that got demolished?

You're right though, Charlotte uptown is growing in a good way. There will still be sprawl however because its just the nature of the beast. People like their grass especially in the south.

Generally we say that Charlotte is about 20-25 years behind Atlanta, and I think that's about right (at the rate that both these cities are growing), but Style does raise a good point about how Charlotte hopes to grow differently from Atlanta. I am hoping we're right in being optimistic about the way we hope Charlotte will grow, with the introduction of lightrail, streetcars, and HOV and BRT lanes. Only time will tell...

And Style, as for all the different parts of Atlanta that are impressive to you, just wait and see what South Park, Ballantyne, University City, and Arrowood look like in 20-25 years. Betcha it'll be comparable. Heck, in 25 years, Charlotte may have new satellite cities (i.e. Ballantyne) we aren't even thinking about right now.

^ I hope that Charlotte never gets a secondary skyline.....there is nothing impressive looking about skyscrapers in a suburban setting. Hopefully uptown momentum will continue to bring companies there, though it is obvious that many are already choosing the suburbs.

^You really think so? I love suburban skylines.:D

First of all Miami is second to none...these threads are idiotic to begin with so hopefully I will end it with a few facts:

MIAMI is the largest metropolitan area in the SOUTHEAST with over 5.3 million people.
MIAMI INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT is the largest international airport in the US next to JFK in New York City in terms of arrivals and departures.
The Port of Miami ranks first in the world in cruise ship departures.
We also have the largest amount of foreign banks outside of NYC.
The amount of highrises being constructed now in the metropolitan area far exceeds anything that is going on at the moment in the south let alone the US.
We are expanding our heavy rail system as well.

First of all, Atlanta is second to none...your reply is the only thing idiotic bob, thank you for amusing us. I will end it with a few facts:

- ATLANTA is the 2nd largest metropolitan area in the SOUTHEAST with over 4.8 million people.
- HARTSFIELD-JACKSON INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT is the busiest airport in the world in terms of passengers and SECOND ranked in terms of take offs and landings.
- ATLANTA is home to 13 FORTUNE 500 companies compared to MIami's 4 or 5
- ATLANTA is headquarters to media giants CNN and TBS, toppling the MIami based Univision station for spics.
- As far as banks are concerned, Atlanta is headquarters to many of them along with 1 in the top 10, and the other 2 in the top 100 largest US banks. That is compared with Miami's 0, ZERO.
- The amount of highrises being contructed now in the metropolitan AND downtown/midtown area far exceeds anything in the southeast. Not that buildings really matter when it comes to importance, but if it makes this argument better for bobdreamz, so be it.
- We are ALSO expanding our heavy rail, bus, and other transportation systems as well.

bobdreamz, nothing you posted put MIami ahead of Atlanta or its rival cities.Miami is a great city, yes. But to go as far as saying its second to none is a far, FAR statement. Provide something more useful then your biasy next time.

- ATLANTA is headquarters to media giants CNN and TBS, toppling the MIami based Univision station for spics.



i think the moderators need to seriously take a look at this statement.

i think the moderators need to seriously take a look at this statement.


I would agree - I think that offense is worthy enough for termination.

I'm hispanic, therefore I can make fun of my own race. Thank you. It's not like it offended you anyway, you simply don't like me. Calm down kiddo.
My picture is posted in the skybar anyway, take a look bud.

First of all, Atlanta is second to none...your reply is the only thing idiotic bob, thank you for amusing us. I will end it with a few facts:

- ATLANTA is the 2nd largest metropolitan area in the SOUTHEAST with over 4.8 million people.

LOL, are you serious? You just contradicted yourself in your opening statement! BTW, what's the largest metropolitan area in the SE, since the ATL is the second? What about urban density? How is the big dog doing in that category?

- HARTSFIELD-JACKSON INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT is the busiest airport in the world in terms of passengers and SECOND ranked in terms of take offs and landings.

The Port of Miami and Port Everglades are bustling economic generators. How large is Atlanta's seaport? That's got to count for something right, since they're just as important as airports? Btw, when is Atlanta going to get a second international airport? Metro Miami has had three for decades.

- As far as banks are concerned, Atlanta is headquarters to many of them along with 1 in the top 10, and the other 2 in the top 100 largest US banks. That is compared with Miami's 0, ZERO.

Miami is the International financial center of the South. Miami's Brickell Financial District is the largest in the south and one of the largest in the country.

- The amount of highrises being contructed now in the metropolitan AND downtown/midtown area far exceeds anything in the southeast. Not that buildings really matter when it comes to importance, but if it makes this argument better for bobdreamz, so be it.

Simply not true. I's say Atl's skyscraper boom is closer to that of Tampa's than Miami's. The amount of highrise construction going down there is totally insane. ATL's boom is nice, but come, stop being a homer and be realistic.

- We are ALSO expanding our heavy rail, bus, and other transportation systems as well.

Good all, cities need to expand their mass transit systems. However, Atlanta's expansion plans are not on par with what's going on in South Florida.

Long live MIami, I've been outsourced by you fine people.
Hail Miami, hail Miami!

Yay for your multiple airports, but Atlanta does fine with one. Theres been talk about another one but it wont ever pass, theres just way too much invested in Hartsfield-Jackson. The new runway, international terminal, air traffic control tower, etc. Unfortunatley, MIami having multiple airports doesnt make it any more important. It makes the city handle air traffic more efficiently, congrats.

Yay for your Brickell Financial DIstrict. MIami gets international banks and business by default, look at the location. Atlanta is landlocked and still comes at or above MIami's level. What's there to say about that?

and finally, yay for your building boom. They come, they go. Buildings still don't make a city more important.

Westin my response was one of sarcasm to these threads...they've been done to death already since this forum was founded....LARGE CAPS WITH MIAMI IN BOLD?? HELLO??...I guess humor doesn't translate well on the internet.
We don't take ourselves that seriously in Miami worrying about being the second city in the south.

Long live MIami, I've been outsourced by you fine people.
Hail Miami, hail Miami!

Yay for your multiple airports, but Atlanta does fine with one. Theres been talk about another one but it wont ever pass, theres just way too much invested in Hartsfield-Jackson. The new runway, international terminal, air traffic control tower, etc. Unfortunatley, MIami having multiple airports doesnt make it any more important. It makes the city handle air traffic more efficiently, congrats.

Yay for your Brickell Financial DIstrict. MIami gets international banks and business by default, look at the location. Atlanta is landlocked and still comes at or above MIami's level. What's there to say about that?

and finally, yay for your building boom. They come, they go. Buildings still don't make a city more important.

don't take this stuff to seriously, because in reality, there is no big dog or second little big dog in the south.

Ok, in that case....hail Atlanta!

i think the points nostyle brought up about miami still stand.

mark, dont you have school work to do? lol

Generally we say that Charlotte is about 20-25 years behind Atlanta, and I think that's about right (at the rate that both these cities are growing), but Style does raise a good point about how Charlotte hopes to grow differently from Atlanta. I am hoping we're right in being optimistic about the way we hope Charlotte will grow, with the introduction of lightrail, streetcars, and HOV and BRT lanes. Only time will tell...

i'd agree that charlotte 'hopes' not to grow in that way but with the way that oil in this county is going to almost have to go and the development of alternative fuels...while it will still allow us to sprawl, just using a different fuel source to fuel it - i'd be willing to bet there would be a 'crunch' period between the two times. i'm not an expert in the field, so ya'll can call me an idiot if you so desire. i'm not claiming to know it all.

And Style, as for all the different parts of Atlanta that are impressive to you, just wait and see what South Park, Ballantyne, University City, and Arrowood look like in 20-25 years. Betcha it'll be comparable. Heck, in 25 years, Charlotte may have new satellite cities (i.e. Ballantyne) we aren't even thinking about right now.

they are impressive in that they are just massive centers of sprawl. i think south park will mature much like buckhead with forced density simply becasue of land prices and the wants of people to be there. do i like these places? heck no! look below...

^ I hope that Charlotte never gets a secondary skyline.....there is nothing impressive looking about skyscrapers in a suburban setting. Hopefully uptown momentum will continue to bring companies there, though it is obvious that many are already choosing the suburbs.

i'd like to 2nd that. it only takes away from things that could be centrally located within the city and used by all in one place rather than having to hop in their denali to get from one thing to another since transit isnt what they want. there are a ton of other things that go along with that issue that many of us understand.

^You really think so? I love suburban skylines.:D

tell me what's good about having a ton of towers located around a drainage lake that has no one there on a weekend?

---------------------------------
now at the statments on atlanta - the boom in atlanta is nothing like what is going on in miami. take a look at their P&C forum for further information.

i also was not aware of any plans to expand the heavy rail system? i thought it was light rail / streetcar for the perimeter loop.

1st Tier: Atlanta, Miami
2nd Tier: Charlotte, Nashville, Tampa, New Orleans
3rd Tier: Jacksonville, Orlando, Raleigh, Memphis, Richmond, Birmingham

i think the points nostyle brought up about miami still stand.

mark, dont you have school work to do? lol

What is the average age in the Miami metro?

I also wouldn't get too caught up on those inner city poverty numbers. The city of Miami is only 35 sqaure miles which serves as the core to a large county of over 2 million residents. So for the most part, Miami-Dade's inner city is Miami.

On the other hand, if it covered the same large area of a city like Charlotte, nobody would be saying anything about the inner city, because it would be overlooked by having posh areas like Coral Gables, Miami Beach, Aventura & Sunny Isles in its corporate limits.

tell me what's good about having a ton of towers located around a drainage lake that has no one there on a weekend?
Who said that was the reason I liked them?

I would rather have office towers in the middle of no where than low-rise buildings. I am a skyscraper fanatic, I'll take em' anyway I can get em'.

^Based on size, Miami is the second largest in the South, behind Dallas and largest by far in the SE. Metro Tampa, Orlando and Norfolk are all SE centers with a larger population than Charlotte's.

You are correct that Tampa's metro is larger than Charlottes. However, Tampa's metro includes St. Petersburg, Clearwater, Largo and other cities and towns. As far as cities versus cities, Charlotte is much larger than Charlotte and Norfolk. And since we are talking about cities and not metros, Charlotte is next.

You know I was a bit surprised at how small Charlotte is when I visited. When you see the impressive skyline you see the entire central business district. Was there large parts of the city that got demolished?

Historically Charlotte always had a small downtown. Yes, some large blocks of development fell victim to urban renewal; but almost all of it was low- and mid-rise stuff that you'd see in a city of 50,000. In a way, the small size of the business district has been an advantage; it's kept development moving upward instead of outward into surrounding neighborhoods.


^ I hope that Charlotte never gets a secondary skyline.....there is nothing impressive looking about skyscrapers in a suburban setting. Hopefully uptown momentum will continue to bring companies there, though it is obvious that many are already choosing the suburbs.

I'll third that one. The symmetry and density of Uptown are part of what makes it a pleasant place to be. If a real "Midtown" pops up out in South Park or somewhere, it'll be the beginning of the end.

As far as cities versus cities, Charlotte is much larger than Charlotte and Norfolk.


What?

You are correct that Tampa's metro is larger than Charlottes. However, Tampa's metro includes St. Petersburg, Clearwater, Largo and other cities and towns. As far as cities versus cities, Charlotte is much larger than Charlotte and Norfolk. And since we are talking about cities and not metros, Charlotte is next.

But it is what it is. You have to take a city/metro/urban area for what it is. You just can't cherry pick when it seems convenient.

But it is what it is. You have to take a city/metro/urban area for what it is. You just can't cherry pick when it seems convenient.
Agreed

:rofl:
Hey louisianacharm, how you liking my new signature?


You may want to peruse the NASF forum rules and adjust your sigline accordingly. I prefer that folks obey the rules willingly, instead of us having to mod them. :)

NASF Forum Rules (http://skyscrapercity.com/announcement.php?f=103&announcementid=60)

Don't expect people to understand sarcasm through text bob...I interpreted it as you being serious. Reading your first post made me laugh histerically honestly. I was thinking to myself "if thats all his reasoning behind why Miami is numero uno, this is a sad man.'
Sorry about the misunderstanding and my quick snap at ya, but it really is a competition with the two cities. Atlanta and Miami are THE Southern hubs, but to try and classify either city as being above or below one another is a never ending issue.

Sorry about the misunderstanding and my quick snap at ya, but it really is a competition with the two cities.

I don't think so, or its just one-sided. The last thing Florida cities are concerned about is what goes on in Atlanta, especially South Florida. Its a different world down there.

Oh, I don't know.

I think the Charlotte poster who started this thread was most likely referring to the Southeast.

And while it's true that much of Arkansas is all-Dallas, and that much of Louisiana is all-Houston, the same could be said of portions of Kentucky being tied-in to St. Louis or Cincy.

Not parts-all of Western Kentucky and Western Tennessee are in the pull of St. Louis as the primary 'big" city that those regions look towards. Atlanta would follow next in line.

As for the topic, I go with there is no single primary or secondary city in the South that all cities look too. Atlanta would come closest though. There are a slew of regional primary cities, and those are really the important cities, since they have regions clearly attached to them (ie Memphis, Birmingham, Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, Miami, etc). Its hard to say though that a city or cities in the South draw into their realm all or most other cities in the Southeast.

Is Jackson, MS more influenced by Atlanta or Houston or Dallas? Or is it a Tier 1 city?

New Orleans or Memphis actually. I don't think it would look towards Texas, and would come closer to looking at Atlanta if those are the only options. I don't see any real Texas pull until you cross west of the Mississippi and get into central Arkansas or into Louisiana west of New Orleans.

Historically Charlotte always had a small downtown. Yes, some large blocks of development fell victim to urban renewal; but almost all of it was low- and mid-rise stuff that you'd see in a city of 50,000. In a way, the small size of the business district has been an advantage; it's kept development moving upward instead of outward into surrounding neighbhoods.


But it also gives the city this odd (to me) feeling of a downtown by Disney feel... sorta like a college town with really tall buildings. When its more dense it should be really nice though.

Not parts-all of Western Kentucky and Western Tennessee are in the pull of St. Louis as the primary 'big" city that those regions look towards. Atlanta would follow next in line.

As for the topic, I go with there is no single primary or secondary city in the South that all cities look too. Atlanta would come closest though. There are a slew of regional primary cities, and those are really the important cities, since they have regions clearly attached to them (ie Memphis, Birmingham, Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, Miami, etc). Its hard to say though that a city or cities in the South draw into their realm all or most other cities in the Southeast.

i like your way of thinking about it. though, around here in charlotte, the regional thing is atlanta. no one really goes to miami simply because atlanta is closer.

Who said that was the reason I liked them?

I would rather have office towers in the middle of no where than low-rise buildings. I am a skyscraper fanatic, I'll take em' anyway I can get em'.

many of us here are - but there is a totally different design in a suburban skyscraper and an urban one when it comes to how they front the area they are apart of. i'd rather see good planning rather than a drunken idiot design a place for work, play, and living.

I think fwskyline needs to get laid... or concentrate on things a normal 15 year old teenager would think about ;) :D
Oh that's too funny, you, of all people, telling someone how to be normal...If anyone but you would have said this, I would have no problem, but I'm just sick and tired of you. Lemme just say it: I strongly dislike you (wouldn't say hate, cuz I don't know you personally, thank God).

On top of you being annoyingly flamey and sarcastic, you're a hypocrite. I mean, you ridicule people for getting defensive about their cities, but if someone takes a shot at Birmingham, you're right there to snap back. Wachovia is secretly plotting to destroy your precious town through evil bank takeovers? Pathetic. Don't you think if crummy, old, stagnant, smelter-scented Birmingham deserves respect, everyone else's cities should too?

Please, will someone just ban me so I don't have to be tempted to respond to this bullshit? I know, Jasonhouse could do it! God knows he needs an ego boost...and please people, respond to this with as much disdain as you want, I know secretly you hate Jasonhouse too.

James, if you seriously still have hope for this site, you're a lot more desperate than I thought :laugh: (BTW, James is probably the only decent human being on this entire website. Have fun dude.) Ugh, maybe I'll come back when they find a cure for ignorance.

I don't think so, or its just one-sided. The last thing Florida cities are concerned about is what goes on in Atlanta, especially South Florida. Its a different world down there.

Sorry, I forgot Flordia was in a different country. What was I thinking?

Oh that's too funny, you, of all people, telling someone how to be normal...If anyone but you would have said this, I would have no problem, but I'm just sick and tired of you. Lemme just say it: I strongly dislike you (wouldn't say hate, cuz I don't know you personally, thank God).

On top of you being annoyingly flamey and sarcastic, you're a hypocrite. I mean, you ridicule people for getting defensive about their cities, but if someone takes a shot at Birmingham, you're right there to snap back. Wachovia is secretly plotting to destroy your precious town through evil bank takeovers? Pathetic. Don't you think if crummy, old, stagnant, smelter-scented Birmingham deserves respect, everyone else's cities should too?

Please, will someone just ban me so I don't have to be tempted to respond to this bullshit? I know, Jasonhouse could do it! God knows he needs an ego boost...and please people, respond to this with as much disdain as you want, I know secretly you hate Jasonhouse too.

James, if you seriously still have hope for this site, you're a lot more desperate than I thought :laugh: (BTW, James is probably the only decent human being on this entire website. Have fun dude.) Ugh, maybe I'll come back when they find a cure for ignorance.


for some reason, i like this dude

oh and nothing against b-ham, but i'll take fort worth anyday

Oh that's too funny, you, of all people, telling someone how to be normal...If anyone but you would have said this, I would have no problem, but I'm just sick and tired of you. Lemme just say it: I strongly dislike you (wouldn't say hate, cuz I don't know you personally, thank God).

On top of you being annoyingly flamey and sarcastic, you're a hypocrite. I mean, you ridicule people for getting defensive about their cities, but if someone takes a shot at Birmingham, you're right there to snap back. Wachovia is secretly plotting to destroy your precious town through evil bank takeovers? Pathetic. Don't you think if crummy, old, stagnant, smelter-scented Birmingham deserves respect, everyone else's cities should too?

Please, will someone just ban me so I don't have to be tempted to respond to this bullshit? I know, Jasonhouse could do it! God knows he needs an ego boost...and please people, respond to this with as much disdain as you want, I know secretly you hate Jasonhouse too.

James, if you seriously still have hope for this site, you're a lot more desperate than I thought :laugh: (BTW, James is probably the only decent human being on this entire website. Have fun dude.) Ugh, maybe I'll come back when they find a cure for ignorance.

:laugh:

I remember how rough and emotional those teen years could be. You may be intelligent, but I'd take some anger management courses - there's no need to fume; it's just the internet!

Please, will someone just ban me so I don't have to be tempted to respond to this bullshit? I know, Jasonhouse could do it! God knows he needs an ego boost...and please people, respond to this with as much disdain as you want, I know secretly you hate Jasonhouse too.


Uhh, what the heck did I do? (especially lately?)

It must be the THOUSANDS of hours of my time I've dedicated to creating and running SSC. Man, folks just gotta hate those pesky volunteers, right?

I only ask that you look in the mirror before expecting perfection of others.

i like your way of thinking about it. though, around here in charlotte, the regional thing is atlanta. no one really goes to miami simply because atlanta is closer.

A lot closer, at that. People forget how long the Florida panhandle is. The drive between Atlanta and Miami is painfully long; the distance really dilutes the influence (if it has any) that Miami might have over the southeast.

And people think I have anger issues, lmao.
I can see getting mad at something serious, but good day.....that was nothing. You'll just have to get used to people trashing your city (and the comment against fort worth was not bad, compared to other possible comments ), because it happens. The one bad comment about Fort Worth that I've heard in a very long time, and you fly off the handle....sheesh.

*Anyways, the second city stuff boils down to location and size....Here in SWVA, I consider DC as the 'big city' in the area...or Charlotte.

Oh, no!!! Get ready for some serious debates :jk: That would be a bit bold, considering the competition. I was getting ready to post something, saying that I am so glad Raleigh is nowhere near the competition. There is hardly anything here to make us even a candidate :( Raleigh is a truly great place to live, but we have a VERY long way to go before we become a major candidate. With New Orleans, Miami and Atlanta in the competition it would be hard to notice Raleigh. Charlotte and Tampa are becoming more and more "important" (for the lack of better word) for the South's identity. Traditionally major Southern cities like Nashville, Memphis, B'ham, Jacksonville, Richmond are also getting increased amount of interest and will become more and more. Then we have cities like Norfolk, Orlando, and Mobile that also gain visibility. Not to mention Savannah and Charleston, with their rich history and superb urban fabric... I don't know, but there isn't much room for Raleigh right now... If we take the entire metro in consideration, then Raleigh (Triangle) has a great chance to becoming something major... in the future.


I know we do not have chance.........I was just picking hahhahahahahaha! Unlike someother people , I know when I am out of my league!

A lot closer, at that. People forget how long the Florida panhandle is. The drive between Atlanta and Miami is painfully long; the distance really dilutes the influence (if it has any) that Miami might have over the southeast.

very well said.

A lot closer, at that. People forget how long the Florida panhandle is. The drive between Atlanta and Miami is painfully long; the distance really dilutes the influence (if it has any) that Miami might have over the southeast.


if any?.............who drives anymore...................no comment :sleepy:

if any?.............who drives anymore...................no comment :sleepy:

air prices in charlotte are high, so many just say 'screw it' and drive.

ok so you're telling me you rather go on vacation to atlanta then miami....can someone tell me some interesting things to do in atlanta.

^^ for me, i couldnt give a damn about 'what there is to do' in a city as i dont do any of that as it is. a walk through the city and actually expericing the city is what does it for me. i havent ever been to miami, but when it comes down to it - more people from charlotte visit atlanta. its big and close. if they want a beach they can go to the SC coast which they can get to by car [and a lot faster than miami]. that's the simply and straight forward reason.

^Have fun risking your life taking a walk through Atlanta. However, I can see your point of view, considering you've never been to Miami and have completely no idea of the atmosphere, urban density and cultural diversity down there. Spending a large amount of time in both places, I can assure you South Florida is on a different level, cosmopolitan-wise.

Nevertheless, in the grand scheme of things, you're definately in the minority.

^Have fun risking your life taking a walk through Atlanta.

will do.

ok so you're telling me you rather go on vacation to atlanta then miami....can someone tell me some interesting things to do in atlanta.


Umm... I recently chose to go to Georgia/ATL for my spring break, instead of Chicago, or going to Miami for my annual pilgrimage to the Winter Music Conference...

Sorry.:runaway:

^Have fun risking your life taking a walk through Atlanta..


OK, now I really don't understand that... I walked all over DT/MT and Buckhead ATL for the better part of a day last month with no worries... In fact, walkig there was a Godsend compared to Tampa.

I'm not saying anything about ATL with regards to the overall topic here, but I don't understand that comment.

OK, now I really don't understand that... I walked all over DT/MT and Buckhead ATL for the better part of a day last month with no worries... In fact, walkig there was a Godsend compared to Tampa.

I'm not saying anything about ATL with regards to the overall topic here, but I don't understand that comment.


exactly. i walked from underground atlanta down to piedmont park with no problems. a rusty nail going into my foot was the only problem i encountered, and that was such a freak thing to happen. never did i have any problem with cars.

James, if you seriously still have hope for this site, you're a lot more desperate than I thought :laugh: (BTW, James is probably the only decent human being on this entire website. Have fun dude.) Ugh, maybe I'll come back when they find a cure for ignorance.

You're a cool kid too, Jonny. But unlike you, I don't really want to be banned, lol...but I know what you mean. Some people on here should have gotten banned months ago, but still linger here. Thankfully, I learned long ago to not take this place too seriously.

I knew that Jasonhouse wasn't that bad shortly after the whole American Uprise incident. So give Jasonhouse some respect, he aint as bad as you think, he's actually kinda cool. :wink2:

exactly. i walked from underground atlanta down to piedmont park with no problems. a rusty nail going into my foot was the only problem i encountered, and that was such a freak thing to happen. never did i have any problem with cars.
I think some people just assume that all of Atlanta is dangerous. I really depends on the area of town you are in. I don't see why you would have any trouble in a suburban like enviroment, like Buckhead.

If anyone can give me a large Southeastern city that is totally safe to walk through in all parts, then I would like to hear it.
By large, I mean Charlotte size and up.
Every city has a bad street/area somewhere. Atlanta is no worse than any other city, IMO.

many parts of these cities are very walkable. that is, unless you're trying to walk on the freeway.

^I don't think ANY city is totally safe to walk through.

if any?.............who drives anymore...................no comment :sleepy:

Sorry, not all of us have a grand laying around to blow on airfare. Some of us actually have to pay bills.


ok so you're telling me you rather go on vacation to atlanta then miami....can someone tell me some interesting things to do in atlanta.

Who said anything about vacations? I said Miami is a long way from most of the South, and that hurts its influence. That's got to do with a lot more than just vacationing (again, this is something that grown-ups have to think about).

Miami is ideally located for international businesses, since it's centrally located relative to the entire American continent. But as far as national businesses go, Miami's pretty far out there. Other cities are better-positioned geographically; why do you think Atlanta has such a busy airport? It ain't because that many people go to Atlanta for the weekend, I assure you.

Similarly, Miami is ideally positioned to be a major port but its location sucks for other kinds of distributive traffic. It will never be a trucking hub like Indy or Memphis.

Simply put, the fact that Miami is 10 hours from anywhere makes it tougher for the city to exert a real influence over the rest of the region. It's not arbitrary bias when people refuse to treat it as a Southern city.

^Have fun risking your life taking a walk through Atlanta. However, I can see your point of view, considering you've never been to Miami and have completely no idea of the atmosphere, urban density and cultural diversity down there. Spending a large amount of time in both places, I can assure you South Florida is on a different level, cosmopolitan-wise.

From Charlotte, there are several major metros closer in distance than Miami. In fact, I'm pretty sure you can get to Dallas in about the same time if you hustle.

I wasn't implying that Atlanta was dangerous to walk through. I made the comment in regards to the overall walkability and urban lively atmospheres of the cities and their regions. For example, yes there are walkable pedestrian friendly areas, even in places like Tampa and Atlanta, but I don't think you can sit here with a straight face and compare them on similar levels to places like South Beach, Charleston or New Orleans, especially if you know anything about urbanism. Hopefully this is a little clearer than my initial statement.

but I know what you mean. Some people on here should have gotten banned months ago, but still linger here. Thankfully, I learned long ago to not take this place too seriously.


Who? The mods aren't omnipresent or omniscient. If we aren't made aware of an issue, or an asshole forumer, odds are, we aren't going to know about it until someone informs us, or we stumble upon it out of dumb luck.

Private Messaging works wonders.

Miami is ideally located for international businesses, since it's centrally located relative to the entire American continent. But as far as national businesses go, Miami's pretty far out there. Other cities are better-positioned geographically; why do you think Atlanta has such a busy airport? It ain't because that many people go to Atlanta for the weekend, I assure you.

I think Atlanta's airport has to do more with it being Delta's main hub and it being one of the few metros its size, with only one international airport. In the grand scheme of things, its not a centrally located city, like Dallas, St. Louis, etc.

Similarly, Miami is ideally positioned to be a major port but its location sucks for other kinds of distributive traffic. It will never be a trucking hub like Indy or Memphis.

Nothing wrong with this. Different strokes for different folks. For example, due to location, Kansas City will never be the shipping and naval hub that Norfolk is and Norfolk will never be the railroad hub that KC is. Different economic engines doesn't really make on better than the other.

Simply put, the fact that Miami is 10 hours from anywhere makes it tougher for the city to exert a real influence over the rest of the region. It's not arbitrary bias when people refuse to treat it as a Southern city.

Simply put none of the big four of five southern cities have a firm gripe of influence on places outside of their metro areas, regardless of their location.

From Charlotte, there are several major metros closer in distance than Miami. In fact, I'm pretty sure you can get to Dallas in about the same time if you hustle.

No lying there. Heck, using orbitz, you can catch a roundtrip 3 hour flight from Jax to Philly for a little over $100 dollars. That's a much better deal than jumping in your car and driving anywhere in the south.

I think Atlanta's airport has to do more with it being Delta's main hub and it being one of the few metros its size, with only one international airport. In the grand scheme of things, its not a centrally located city, like Dallas, St. Louis, etc.

But in regard to the Southeast, Atlanta is quite centrally located. It's about three or four hours from everywhere, and it lies much more squarely along flight patterns (I'm pretty sure this led to it being the big Delta hub) so it catches a lot of changeovers. The fact that the airport is busier than LaGuardia despite Atlanta having very little tourist traffic says something about how many people switch flights there. Same thing with distribution, etc.

Also, it's worth noting that Atlanta is at the convergence of three major interstates: I-20, I-75 and I-85. Chances are that someone crossing through the region is going to end up in Atlanta on one of those roads. Similarly, CSX and Norfolk Southern both have major rail hubs in Atlanta because of its central location. The city is basically right in the middle of passenger-train traffic in the South. Those are things that Miami simply can't be a part of due to geography.

Nothing wrong with this. Different strokes for different folks. For example, due to location, Kansas City will never be the shipping and naval hub that Norfolk is and Norfolk will never be the railroad hub that KC is. Different economic engines doesn't really make on better than the other.

Exactly... which is why Miami's location dilutes its influence over the region. Being on the end of the panhandle gives it a lock on international business, but hurts it on domestics. Different strokes. Nothing wrong with it, but the effect is real.

Simply put none of the big four of five southern cities have a firm gripe of influence on places outside of their metro areas, regardless of their location.

Nope, which is why a "second city" thread makes no sense really.

Even when I state, such & such cities are 'tier one' cities in the southeast, that doesn't mean the 'tier two' cities don't overlap. I think there is a huge amount of overlap between all the cities, and a city's influence is either overt or nearly subliminal.

Well if you exclude Tx and Ok then its a tie between Miami and Atlanta even though bouth of their actual city populations are smaller than Charlotte and or Jacksonville. But in overall terms its a definite tie.

First of all Miami is second to none...these threads are idiotic to begin with so hopefully I will end it with a few facts:

MIAMI is the largest metropolitan area in the SOUTHEAST with over 5.3 million people.
MIAMI INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT is the largest international airport in the US next to JFK in New York City in terms of arrivals and departures.
The Port of Miami ranks first in the world in cruise ship departures.
We also have the largest amount of foreign banks outside of NYC.
The amount of highrises being constructed now in the metropolitan area far exceeds anything that is going on at the moment in the south let alone the US.
We are expanding our heavy rail system as well.
You say Miami is the largest metro in the south but, I thought Dallas/Ft. Worth held that title? I know it has nearly 7 million people in it's metro. Also, imo, I think Dallas would be 1st tier instead of second.

Dallas has 6 million, not 7. Also he said the southeast. Something Dallas is not in.

^actually, in terms of geographics and landscape it is, but in terms of pure state boundaries its not, and last i checked texas was included in the southeastern forum on this site. so i would say it would be a virtual tie between probably the big 4 and then everybody else, with the big 4 being right upon one another. you can argue all day about which is better but the argument will never end. miami is miami as usual, dallas has numerous projects including victory, houston has downtown growth especially the pavillion, and atl has atl. station, along with many other projects. so in the words of steve spurrier, "just say there all pretty good and leave it at that".

^actually, in terms of geographics and landscape it is, but in terms of pure state boundaries its not, ".

Well you know how the rest of this forum is about and that's to exclude Texas because it's "far" away from the rest of the south. That's why I said that.