YOU DECIDE!!!!!

There was a discussion some time ago in the Construction section about Will Alsops ideas. Gothic was very anti but me and a few other people were sticking up for Alsop and the way he approaches architecture, daring to think differently. Opinions are very divided though, I guess it depends on what you think architecture should be.

i am very anti yes. his ideas are basically, lets do a blob here, another blob there, now lets link them up by a massive road. i HATE modernism.

:) I was waiting for that

His sense of urban aesthetics is certainly pretty skewed, that's putting it rather politely.

There seems to be a distinct whiff of "let's be audacious and make everything incongruous and disharmonious purely for the sake of it shall we?" in just about every proposal he comes up with. That fourth "grace" should NEVER have left his drawing board (assuming he uses one that is - for all we know it could be a large cocaine wrap).

It makes his detractors quite rightfully view all his ideas with deep suspicion.

You've got to wonder what middlesbrough council and tees valley regeneration were thinking of when they practically allowed him to design an entire new city at Middlehaven. He had buildings designed to replicate a giant toaster, a space invader, a champagne glass and various other wierd blobby heaps. One alsop building is enough, but to place £300m of faith in him is just pure fucking stupidity.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/tees/weareteesside/2004/07/middlehaven/casinoprada_skirts_350.jpg

*Sigh*

I would say he has made architecture fun again. At least he has somethin g interesting to say with his work, unlike the endless glass and steel (and generally bland) identikit architecture that's popping up across the world.

His renderings are mad, his buildings ARE crazy, but you cannot deny that in the flesh his buildings work. Peckham library works, North Greenwich Tbe station works, Heron Quays DLR station works and Palestra is shaping up to be quite a cult building.

At least he is pushing the envelope and getting architecture back on people's minds. Fair enough that giant tedddy bear or toaster ideas are a bit mad, but then I'm sure someone would have said a giant gherkin or a wedge shaped skyscraper would have been 'too crazy' for a city. His use of colour is a breath of fresh air in London especially with its grey skies, and I would say he has a real passion in being quite visionary and thinking outside of the usual thought process. He might need to tone down the unreadable renderings, but at least his flair and originality come across to everyone.

I agree with DarJoLe.

*Sigh*

I would say he has made architecture fun again. At least he has somethin g interesting to say with his work, unlike the endless glass and steel (and generally bland) identikit architecture that's popping up across the world.
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It isn't necessary to choose. The glass and steel is horrible and so is Alsop's work. We've had a hundred years of architect's pretentiously looking for something "to say" instead of designing attractive buildings and it's been a global aesthetic catastrophe.

I would say his renderings & intial ideas & thoughts are ...lets just say a little abstract but when his buildings are actually built they are generally quite good- some good ones & some a little too out there.

As mentioned Palestra is looknig good as are his transport designs, N Greenwhich, Heron Quay & his designs for Blackfriars bridge look good.

Total idiot desperate for attention.

I think what he does is he over-designs project more than he actually intends them to be.

However, he knows that what's on the drawing board is never the finished product. So, he knows that a client would want a building that, say, a '3' on the wierdness scale. He then goes for a 12 on that same scale knowing full well that he'll never get away with it. However, it then forces the client to try and compromise. So, in the end you get a building that's a 6 or 7 on the 'uniqueness' scale.

Palastra is a good example - compare the early rendorings with what's happening now - it's basically the same building but it's been much more toned down. It'll be interesting to see what his original North Greenwich and Heron Quay rendors were like to see how they compare.

I think his tamest work is some of his best. Palestra is quite a quiet effort for him and I think it's starting to look realy quite good.

He just needs to be a bit less abstract and I would like him alot more. At least he uses colour, which more buildings should do.

i looked over this thread again and i realised something - whenever i slag off alsop its actually his masterplan. when he designs more than one building i utterly hate what he produces, but as people have said palestra and peckham library are both great. the problem is when they let him onto other things than a single project, then he goes a bit nuts and over designs.

His northen masterplan was a bit crazy, skyscrapers randomly dotted along motorways just sounds like hell. However it was never intended to be a seirous proposal, just a collection of ideas about how to rejuvinate the north (unfortunately many of those ideas were bollocks.

I wouldn't mind one of his buildings in Leeds. The key word in that sentence is one though ;)

i looked over this thread again and i realised something - whenever i slag off alsop its actually his masterplan. when he designs more than one building i utterly hate what he produces, but as people have said palestra and peckham library are both great. the problem is when they let him onto other things than a single project, then he goes a bit nuts and over designs.


Id agree with that- his architecture is often decentish - his sense of urban design is appalling. If youve ever heard him interviewed on his views on cars and roads you can understand why.

It'll be interesting to see what his original North Greenwich and Heron Quay rendors were like to see how they compare.

North Greenwich was basically the same but he didn't want the roof, he wanted people to be able to see the inner workings of the station and see the trains underground from above so to speak. LU said though it needed to be an enclosed space and he reluctantly roofed it over. But remember the actual street level station was designed by Foster - I'd have liked to have seen this is Alsop had designed it.

Not sure about Heron Quays, but check out his designs for the North Quay Bridge at Canary Wharf on his website - certainly something Canary Wharf needs to brighten up the area...

Wil Also is currently redeveloping Middlesbrough'd docks both with the masterplan, and now with all the architecture. There is NO consideration of the principles of urban design which were rediscovered in the light of the failure of almost all major developments based on purely an architects vision. 'Middlehaven' has been dubbed an architects playground, as though thats an amazing thing. However it is just a load of cubes and blobs set in a vast park. Looks amazing as a pice of art in glorious CGI tecnicolour, but in reality? God knows. This is not town building, its object plonking - so says the well known comment on Alsop

I would say he is somewhat misunderstood.

He tends to talk and render in abstract concepts but he tends to build robust, successful and much loved buildings.

He prepared the strategic framework for New Islington in Manchester and has designed one of the buildings there which is now under construction. Its just plain lazy to dismiss him as the proponent of "blobs". My reservation with Alsop, as Rigadon, is his sense of urban design.

He's a nutter!

Wil Also is currently redeveloping Middlesbrough'd docks both with the masterplan, and now with all the architecture. There is NO consideration of the principles of urban design which were rediscovered in the light of the failure of almost all major developments based on purely an architects vision. 'Middlehaven' has been dubbed an architects playground, as though thats an amazing thing. However it is just a load of cubes and blobs set in a vast park. Looks amazing as a pice of art in glorious CGI tecnicolour, but in reality? God knows. This is not town building, its object plonking - so says the well known comment on Alsop


What he has proposed for Middlesbrough is frankly ridiculous. I pity the residents of the whole town cos it will just make them into a laughing stock - the entire complex looks like Blobbyland. The area has always been in need of some sort of redevelopment and revitalisation/ regentrification, but not the way Alsop visualises it. How come he wasn't told where to jump off, the stupid deluded git?

MG - He was gioven the contract for a couple of reasons. 1. The standard masterplan did not capture developer interests and didn't project the sort of progressive image the town needed to draw in investment. This project really has and its off the ground. It will draw in investment where there wouldnt have been any.

However 2. The people at the top who made all the decisions were and still are seduced by the seductive images and stylish presentations. As has happened numerous times in the past, a visionary architect is exciting, whereas an urban designer suggesting something that will last, just doesnt grab headlines or attention. The folk at the top know this is attracting investment and thats all they care about. They arent planners or urban designers but managers. We'll get this project built but in 20 years time there will be a hell of a mess to work with.

An application has been submitted to Middlesbrough council for part of the Middlehaven project:


M/OUT/0376/05/P

"MIXED USE REDEVELOPMENT, PHASE 1 MIDDLEHAVEN TO INCLUDE COMMERCIAL, LEISURE/CASINO, EDUCATION & RESIDENTIAL"

TEES VALLEY REGENERATION CAVENDISH HOUSE TEESDALE BUSINESS PARK STOCKTON ON TEES


Not sure if this is the Alsop part though - there are other phases in the corner designed by separate teams.

Alsop has gathered architects together in a consortium to realise his 'vision'. The plans are all drawn up for every phase 1 building as part of the bid which is likely to be successful. All they'll need is the investment and it could be submitted for planning permission tomorrow.

Middlesbrough College is moving everything down there too and the bids are in for that. The first building on site is nearly complete. The second (3 of the cubes) has permission - watered down bland version of the cubes mind.

2 casinos are planned in Middlesbrough. One at the east end of corporation road next to the leisure centre (bit of a tower on it). several competing plans for the middlehaven casino. not sure what will happen with them in the light of the new gambling laws. Only 1 supercasino and I think, 8 smaller ones will be allowed nationwide.

I heard about the watered down version of the cubes. Doesn't really suprise me that this has happened, and I would generally support it in theory.

Any more information (i.e. renders) on the casino on corporation road? Should be good, since the tallest building in the city (centre north east) is down there as well, along with the thistle hotel midrise.

i am very anti yes. his ideas are basically, lets do a blob here, another blob there, now lets link them up by a massive road. i HATE modernism.

I haven't posted for a while, but I had to make the effort to agree wholeheartedly with this. I've been waiting some time to say exactly that.

I remember his "supercities" series a couple of years ago or so... I was pretty interested at first, and then I realised all he did was drive his Range Rover to a green location, draw three or four piled blobs on his window, and proclaim the future of mankind. He really is full of the most pretentious bullshit. Utterly ludicrous, ill-conceived juvenile little blobs. Get him back to primary school.

Sorry...

I'm speaking as someone who lives near two of his buildings and only found out about Mr Alsop through having a bit a poke around on the net.

I have to say that I preffered it when i just saw him as sombody who designs bright interesting buildings and not in this soap opera light. I'm sure he's probably...

A. pompus
B. arrogant
C. pretentious

But then surely you would have to be in order to get any of those projects constructed? Again as a local who appreciates theese buildings I would urge everybody to forget about the man's personality and concentrate on the buildings.

P.S. I would live in a teddy bear.

P.S. I live near the peckham library and the goldsmiths art college

attention seeking gobshite

His designs are mucho too weird and stupid for me.

Oh yeah and what the bleemin hell is his website all about?

ordinarily I'd say I couldn't care less about this talentless weirdo :weird: , but the fact that some people seem to take him seriously makes him dangerous, I mean look how close we came to having a huge pile of shite defacing the gorgeous Liverpool Graces.

This is soooo typical of people who do not like to see somthing new, interesting, different, shocking and amazing. His design may look weird and out of this world but you know what.. i believe architecture should make you stand still, look up and question that building. Not walk pass a building which seems camolflage with the other square boxes, ie Canary wharf.

For example i take note of the odd shape buildings much more, i study it and question its look... it attracts me, it makes a statement. Those design of that city are not totally ugly and rubbish. Rubbish is those 25 story block of grey flats that scar our skyline in the UK.

He has taken the brave step forward and design buildings like no other architect, thats good in my view.

Don't be afraid of change.

yeah you only have to look at the state of housing architecture in this country to see that people are far too conservative (actually its not really conservative more just completely devoid of any character and style) and are usually conned into buying cheap shoddy bland design just because it looks vaguely like one they drew when they were 4. The only variations and excitement in office design seem to be if we suddenly get something that is tall and then all creative juices are forced to flow. Im sure we would have ended up with a more interesting and viewable skyline at say Moor London or a sight worth visiting at Spitafileds if Alsop was chosen.

I like exciting architecture, I love Swiss-re, I mildly enjoy the GLA building (a blob itself). But Alsops blobs are too blobby and seem to be proposed in locations which aren't conducive to blobbiness i.e. Liverpool waterfront and Bradford centre. As I said I like exciting buildings and I think Fosters 4th Grace achieved that without looking like something a child had moulded out of mashed potato. WA's weird buildings (some are ok) just seem strange for stranges sake rather than inspired examples of architectural genius.

Anyway thats just my :2cents:

I think he's a complete arse. I remember his programme about mega-cities in Britain and just thought "he's not really on this planet, is he?"

He's taking the piss. That fourth grace was shit on a stick. His chips building is like wrapped in old newspaper. He proposes blobs and toasters and teddy bears. Pretentious, arrogant, dangerous, tosser.

http://jamestamp.com/2.jpg

lol. Pretty divided opinions I see.

He's taking the piss. That fourth grace was shit on a stick. His chips building is like wrapped in old newspaper. He proposes blobs and toasters and teddy bears. Pretentious, arrogant, dangerous, tosser.


Have you seen any of his buildings or designs in the flesh?

I'm speaking as someone who lives near two of his buildings and only found out about Mr Alsop through having a bit a poke around on the net.

I have to say that I preffered it when i just saw him as sombody who designs bright interesting buildings and not in this soap opera light. I'm sure he's probably...

A. pompus
B. arrogant
C. pretentious

But then surely you would have to be in order to get any of those projects constructed? Again as a local who appreciates theese buildings I would urge everybody to forget about the man's personality and concentrate on the buildings.

P.S. I would live in a teddy bear.

P.S. I live near the peckham library and the goldsmiths art college
I agree with all of that. So much of the criticism here seems to be against him as a person. I don't think that should come into it.

I have only seen Goldsmiths from the train so I can't comment too much on that, but Peckham library works. Not only does it look good (not to all I guess), but the space works. There are markets or stages put up around or beneath it and the whole area has benefitted. Architecture should be more than just looking good it should enhance it's surroundings socially. In Peckham Alsop has shown himself to be very tallented at this.

^^ Well said.

I met him at the opening of the of NLA exhibiton recently and he wasn't too keen on dicussing my ideas for regeneration in Clapham. I'd sooner chat to someone like George Ferguson to be honest.

The fourth Grace being scrapped due to lack of funds is probably the best thing that has happened to Liverpool as it gears up for the 2008 City of culture year. Practically every person I ever spoken to about it in the city (and I have spoken to a fair few dozen over time, believe me: some of them indeed involved in the building industry as well) were all of the unanimous opinion that - as said elsewhere here from other posters - Alsop is a pretentious poltroon fully intent on pursuing his crazy egocentric vision purely for the sake of being strange and esoteric. It doesn't wash with a lot of the public round the 'Pool I can tell you.

I flew into Liverpool from Dublin after a mate's stag do earlier in the year, on a Ryanair flight also carrying a hen do group from Merseyside. One of their number sat next to me and started a conversation, and as we were coming in to land I pointed out the Three Graces and commented on the abortion that was Alsop's offering. Once I'd finished my diatribe, she politely let me know that she was quite high up in Liverpool City Council... and agreed with everything I'd just said :)